Posted by psgels on 28 May 2006 with categories: Higurashi no Naku Koro ni



The final episode of the Watanagashi-arc answered so many questions. But then again, for every question it answered, it somehow managed to introduce two new questions. So, we’re back where we started. Overall, this arc wasn’t as worthwile as the first one. The only part I really enjoyed was when Keiichi met Shion and Rena overall.

Ah well, it seems like my theories from last time were totally wrong. We start with Rena giving Keiichi a list of people missing, which includes Rika and Satoko, along with a certain Kimiyoshi Kiichiro, who must be the village-chief. Keiichi finally accepts that because he sneaked in the storage house, he’s the one at fault, and Rena slaps him for this, as she feels that he has yet to be punished for this. Rena heard from Mion what he’d done, and she was indeed very angry about this. The two are talking like they’re very close at this moment. It still feels strange after the first arc.

Then, Keiichi finds some notes about Rika’s talk on the phone, and she indeed spoke with Mion. Ah well, there goes my theory about Rika faking her own disappearance. It seems like everything indeed went as Rena thought it would. They plan to visit Mion, in order for Keiichi to apologize. They then get disturbed by Oishi once more. Rena proves her detective skills once more when she finds out that Oishi plans to use them as bait, in order to get permission to search Mion’s house. The two of them leave Oishi, while Rena gets really angry. Though not in a demon-way.

They walk to Mion’s residence. Apparently, they’ve got a huge back-yard. Once inside the house, Keiichi confesses, and sincerely apologizes for his actions. Mion acts like she doesn’t care, and Rena scolds her for this. Keiichi and Rena then tell Mion that they know that Rika and Satoko have been at her place, and she freaks out once she realizes that the two know that Satoko wasn’t supposed to come along. She begins laughing in a demon-like way, and then turns serious again. She then puts up the Shion-voice and explains that the Hinamizawa Village’s original name was Onigafuchi village, or Demon’s Abyss. Like explained two episodes ago, the people of Onigafuchi carried the bloodline of demons. As people began to oppose them, they worked together in order to defeat them, as demonstrated in episode five. Still, if Mion knows about the demons, then she must have been there at that time, which means that she was the one working at that restaurant at that time.

She also explains that, as the heir of the Sonozaki family, there’s been a demon carved into and onto her. She wants to show Keiichi and Rena the scars the demon left on her body, though Rena tells her that that’s not needed. We can get the general idea when we look at the OP, though. She also reveals that she was indeed involved in some of the Watanagashi-murders. In some of them, she was directly involved. In some of them, indirectly. She was also the center of every one of them. Then she indeed reveals that she did kill Rika and Satoko. This brings up an interesting issue: the sequence shown in the first scene of an arc doesn’t have to be its climax. While speculating about what were to happen next, I always kept in my mind that Rika was to die at the end of the arc, not during the middle of it, and so I came up with the theory of her faking her own disappearance. But instead, she wanted to protect Keiichi from Mion, so she went to confront Mion, and somehow ended up stabbing herself. At least, that’s what I like to believe. The fact remains that Rika knew that Mion was after her. Then why would Mion have to lure her to her house, and why did Rika want to involve Satoko in it as well? In fact, if Satoko wasn’t supposed to come, what did Mion make to kill her as well? Suspicions?

Rena then mentions one person which Mion didn’t want to kill, and managed to save by her own will. Mion then turns this one person into a “them”. This could be Oishi and some police-officers. But then again, why would Mion want to save them, over persons like Rika and Satoko? Mion then asks Rena to leave her and Keiichi alone for a while.

When they walk outside a bit, Mion confesses that she liked him, just as Shion liked him. She also reveals that Shion’s still alive. Keiichi then proves that he has a strong heart. A very strong heard, as he promises to believe in Mion, and that she remains his best friend no matter what happens. An interesting thing to promise to a mass murderer, but let’s put that aside, shall we? Because Mion then makes a very interesting statement. She can understand why Mion liked Keiichi. This means that Mion isn’t the one speaking at that time, which gives options for two possibilities. 1. Shion’s been the one talking to Keiichi for all this time. 2. The demon has completely taken over Mion. I was first inclined for the first option, though the scenes that followed changed my mind.

They’re in a secret basement at the moment, full of torture devices like the one in the storehouse. Mion firstly reveals that the torture devices were meant to inforce the Onigafuchi laws. Anyone who was to break them, was to be slowly tortured by these in public. The Sonozaki family built these torture devices in order to continue the tradition of the Watanagashi. She then reveals that the basement was the place at which she performed Watanagashi on everyone. When Keiichi asks about Shion, she takes him to the prison. What follows a really great scene. Shion lies there, broken down, only triggered by Keiichi’s voice. She gets incredibly happy when she sees him, though she really freaks out when she sees Mion. Mion then breaks the fun by grabbing a large boulder and dropping it on Keiichi’s head.

When he wakes up, he’s put into some torture device. Shion still screams in the background, while Mion explains what she’s going to do to him. She has fifteen nails, which she’s going to run through his hand. Before she does it, she gives another fact. The demon in her has dwelled inside her for a long time, though it was Keiichi who awakened it, because he didn’t give Mion the doll he won in the first episode.

And suddenly, everything makes sense! Okay, not everything, but still, the basic concept of Higurashi suddenly is clear. Why was Rena so humane in the second arc, while she was horribly scary in the first one? Of course, because she has a demon inside of her as well. In the first arc, Keiichi awakened her by stopping to help her get that doll from under the garbage. As this didn’t happen at all, Keiichi also didn’t make Rena sad in any possible way, so that’s why she acted so friendly towards him. Mion’s demon was also awakened in the first arc as well, though I can’t remember why that happened, unfortunately.

Anyway, this development gives for two possibilities. 1: Every citizen of Hinamizawa Village has a demon inside of him/her. 2: There are only a few people with a demon inside of him/her. The people beating the punks in the fifth episode point to the first option, though the OP, which shows Mion with a scar, and Shion without one points to the second one. Still, I think that Rika’s demon, while she was about to be murdered by Mion, awakened at that time, and stabbed its host in its confusion. I’m also guessing that demons go to sleep in their hosts when there’s no action for a while. It’s never explained in the anime, but it’s the only explanation I can find for the other Watanagashi-murders.

Anyway, Mion tries to put the first nail in, but the Mion manages to stop the demon from doing so. Keiichi asks the demon to let Mion and Shion go. Mion wonders why he can’t even think about himself at a time like this, so as a third wish, he asks her not to kill him. Mion can’t give into the first two requests. Shion will be killed by the demon no matter what, and the demon also won’t be able to give Mion’s body back. She doesn’t give any reasons at all for this, strangely enough. However, she does listen to his third wish, in order to let him live. She’s forced to do this, as she hears some policemen trying to open the doors of the basement. Rena must’ve warned them. She also warns Keiichi to stay away from her, as from that moment on, she’ll be posessing Mion’s dead body. But then, if demons can posess dead bodies as well, why didn’t Rena and Mion come back to life in the first arc after Keiichi killed them?

Mion uses an electrifying-thingy in order to bring Keiichi unconcious, while she gets away and the police barges in. Rena looks worried about him, and Shion’s saved as well. The bodies of the other victims, however, have yet to be found. And this is where the amount of questions multiplies faster than a herd of hyperactive guinea-pigs. Keiichi’s moving away from the village again, for some reason. Rena’s sad, because she’ll be the only one in the village left. That evening, Mion drops by. The two talk normal for a bit, but then Mion starts resisting, and the demon takes over again, stabbing Keiichi. She then freaks out even more when she starts yelling that she killed everyone with her own hands. But what about Rena, Shion and Oishi? And what does she define by “everyone”? Rena seems to have been disappeared into oblivion for the rest of the episode. Whether she’s killed or not remains a mystery. Shion is found after having jumped from her hospital room, from about eight stories high, though I think that Mion paid her a visit before that happened. Oishi doesn’t have anything to do with Mion this time, and Keiichi managed to survive.

While Keiichi talks to Oishi from his hospital bed, the number of plot twists and questions introduced really gets up high. It appears that Mion HAS been found, along with all of the other bodies she disposed off. Keiichi told the police about some kind of well, which would contain all of the victim’s bodies. Where did he get that information from? Anyway, the well indeed contained the bodies, along with Mion’s. To make things even better, it seems that Mion dies on the day that the police barged in. So, if it indeed was the demon posessing Mion’s dead body, then how come Mion still was acting like Mion at first, before the demon took over again? And if it all was the demon playing an act, why did it leave Mion’s body in the first place, and why did it go through the trouble of walking all the way to the well, only to leave Mion’s dead body behind?

Oishi only makes things better when it seems that Takano died before the night of the Watanagashi. This means that she also had a demon inside of her, which was controlling her dead body at that time. This explains why she knew a lot about the rituals of the Watanagashi, and that she might’ve been the one who killed Tomitake (after all, he and Takano weren’t found in the well, so someone aside from Mion might’ve killed them). But then again, she was BURNED, which throws this theory in the trash can as well, as she looked perfectly fine at the night of the Watanagashi. No burning marks at all. And how about the first arc. Was she burned at that time as well, though she was never found? Then, a blood-covered Mion shows up, pinning the nail through Keiichi’s finger after all. The only explanation I can find for this is that when a demon takes control over a dead body, then it leaves the physical dead body behind, only to create a new body, identical to the one it posessed. Or something in that direction, as that theory is flawed as well, as it still doesn’t explain the little part of Mion which got shown right before she stabbed him.

It was an interesting arc. Each of the characters will indeed end up reacting very differently during each different arc. The paranoid Keiichi stayed mostly calm, with a small number of breakdowns on the second arc. The crazy, demon-posessed Rena turned caring, sharp and serious. The demon managed to control Mion much more than during the first arc (there’s got to be a reason for that. Either the thing that Keiichi did to her in order to awaken the demon, or Rena’s prescense. It seems that Mion really listens to Rena). Satoko turned from sadystical to casual. Rika turned from silent to cute and caring. Oishi turned from friendly to more business-like (another interesting detail I managed to notice: whenever he’s about to deliver harsh news, he starts smoking cigarettes). Tomitake’s become much more obedient. Takano’s the only one who didn’t recieve any change in personality.

More changes with the previous arc:
– No syringe in the second arc.
– The strange men who arrived at the end of the first arc also don’t appear in the second arc.
– Keiichi doesn’t get paranoid in the second arc, so he doesn’t write the note about the things he knows.
– The first arc ended with the deaths of Mion, Rena, Keiichi and Tomitake, while Takano disappeared. The second arc ended with the deaths of Rika, Satoko, Shion, Tomitake, Takano and Mion, with Keiichi and Rena unknown.
– Keiichi moves again at the end of the second arc. Something that hasn’t been mentioned in the first arc.
– Mion and Oishi have no relationship in the second arc. At least, she doesn’t mention him at all. In the first arc, she immediately suspected him.
– Keiichi was never attempted to be tortured in the first arc.

Before I’ll quit (damn… my entries for Higurashi are getting longer and longer… this one managed to get to 2500 words), I have to say that Rena’s an awesome character. I liked her more when she was in scary-mode, though. The fact that this arc ended with so many questions also took its toll a bit. It just feels a bit incomplete. A bit too incomplete. I believe that the problem with Higurashi is that it has a great concept, but at certain points, it certainly could have been better. Keiichi’s reactions also have been extremely unnatural. I know he was calm at that time, but his behavior during this episode was just a bit too calm. After all, he knows that Mion’s about to kill him. Why doesn’t he freak out like in the first arc? Ah well, let’s hope that the next arc will be full of paranoia again.

3 Responses

  1. ayyo says:

    >>Keiichi moves again at the end of the second arc. Something that hasn’t been mentioned in the first arc.
    That’s because his parents are here this time, last time they were still away. Keiichi can’t exactly move out of town on his own.
    >>Mion and Oishi have no relationship in the second arc. At least, she doesn’t mention him at all. In the first arc, she immediately suspected him.
    Not sure if you meant Mion or Rena suspecting Oishi. Both of them suspect him prior to anything happening. No one mentions Oishi because this time he wasn’t directly involve in making Keiichi turn against the girls
    >>Keiichi was never attempted to be tortured in the first arc.
    The syringe was torture
    >>After all, he knows that Mion’s about to kill him. Why doesn’t he freak out like in the first arc?
    Because he knows the reason for whats happening this time compare to last time. Last time he was getting attacked all over the place for no one reason, this time he thinks he has a reason for being attacked and he knows about the demon in Mion too

  2. Cos says:

    You’re right,this arc was really done too quick I’m sure a lot of elements from the original game were ommited,that makes the mystery even harder to solve.

    Firstly I think that Mion is the one trapped in the cave,and Shion is the one toruring Keichi since the torturing girl often talk of Mion at the 3rd person.Also she knows about the cafe incident in wich only Shion was implicated so it’s Mion who is locked.
    But the locked Mion calls her Onee-san,even if we know that the older sister is the heir,so her name is Mion,my therory is that Shion in fact is the true Mion but they exchanged roles since long ago,because it’s safer to have a “bait” when your the head of a yakuza-like family.
    Also you’re wrong,Keichi inded becomes crazy,and “Mion” as well since Mion jumped from the 3rd floor,and the vision of Keichi with shion covered in blod and a hammer is clearly a product of his mind,it’s too much.
    So let’s sum up Shion is the real Mion she is the jerk,Mion is the real Shion she is the one trapped and K1 becomes crazy again.

    Since he becomes crazy again this would mean that this is maybe not a demon who possessed him but something like a disease that affects all town(see the habitants of episode 5 and Rena in first arc),plus there is all that syringe thing,maybe Mion and Rena wanted to give him an antidot,first that the symptoms of crazyness appear its after the hopital…So everybody must have been infected in the hopital!
    That lead to that creapy woman,Takano,she is actually a nurse and strangely she don’t die in both of the arc,she just disappear,also the “director” from ep.4 looked a little like her.
    Also her photographer friend is kind of strange,he looks more like a military,maybe there was some militar bound between them,wich means that there aren’t any demon in the village but just some kind of militar created disease.Wich makes you understand the “because” of the death of the village chief,it’s just because he knew too much.

    Also let’s look a little at the “disease” apparently it makes the person more and more paranoide and it ends up in violent act and suicide.So we can say both the twins and K1 where affected in this act.

    As for Rika and Satoko strange behavior I have my theory,maybe they know a way to prevent the desease and they’ve gone to cure “Mion”,a little like Rena and Mion in ep.4. with K1.

  3. psgels psgels says:

    Cos: very interesting theories once more. I’m also more and more inclined to think that Mion and Shion indeed switched roles during the entire arc. In any case, it was Mion who worked at the restaurant and was along, and it was Mion who called the villagers to help her get rid of the punks.

    The disease is also a nice alternative for the demon-theory. I still have no idea whether the anime will be including supernatural events or not. Still, it does kindof explain what happened at the end of the episode. Mion died at the day the police barged in, so there is a good possibility that she ran away from Keiichi at that time, only to commit suicide at the well because of her disease. Then this means that Keiichi all imagined Mion visiting him the day afterwards, which means that the disease made him stab himself. But then again, this can only be true when the police couldn’t identify Mion and Shion, as the above theory of them switching places wouldn’t add up…

    It’s also strange that the demons/diseases in the villagers don’t make these people murder others. It’s also clear that Rena wasn’t infected in the second arc. This also must mean that if there were some kind of disease, there was either something that made the disease inside of her active, there was something that made her catch the disease, or she never had the disease in the first place and Keiichi was the only one who got the disease in the first arc.

    If the first were to be true, the disease may start acting when its host is experiencing heavy emotions, much like Pani Poni Dash 19. Like Keiichi giving up to get the doll from out under the trash making Rana sad, Keiichi giving the doll to Rena making Mion sad, Rena approaching Keiichi with an axe in combination with the murder cases making him scared, etc. If the second was to be the case, then there’s got to be someone at which the virus originated, my choice goes out to Mion. She was the one at which the disease started, and spread it to Keiichi and Rena in the first arc, and to Keiichi and Shion in the second arc. If the third option is true, and everything has been happening inside Keiichi’s mind, then what remains true, and what remains fiction? Did the murders really happen, or did they not? Especially at moments at which Keiichi remains calm. Is the disease also taking care of this?

    ayyo: Good point. Keiichi’s parents also remain a mystery. During the time that they were away, something must’ve happened to them in order to make them move. Still, why did the date of their absence change? Had it something to do with Keiichi?

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CHANGE USERNAME
Kaiser-Eoghan
*kind of
Kaiser-Eoghan
While its very much in the shadow of the first and the protaganist started out kind annoying, I kind of got caught up in the spectacle and sentimentality of gunbuster 2.
KTravlos
Urasawa is preparing a new manga
KTravlos
yes the episode where Julian watched the documentary was fun. The Caligula like character comes from one of the lesser episodes of the series, when Kircheis beats up some rebelling third rate noble in the Empire.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Goddammit, fail, it just changed the colour of the login name...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I declare in the red truth that the next anime I shall watch is Diebuster.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From what little I saw, I remember a Caligula like character in one episode.
Anonymous1409409
I remember there's an episode where Julian just goes on Space Netflix and just watches a documentary. I actually liked that lol
KTravlos
yup, a LOGH that run like the Altair anime would be bad. It needs to show the sweep of history
AidanAK47
@Anon, I actually liked that aspect. It made the history of the world feel real.
Anonymous1409027
It's compressible, as there are many episodes of buildup, but that's where so many of the interesting details and depth of planning become evident. Some of those episodes read like a history textbook though, so we'll see how the new adaptation handles them,
Anonymous1409027
*pleasantly
KTravlos
Tytania was ok.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the Amakusa Shiro reference in the fate review, I've seen a film about him from the 50s , theres also an old josei manga where the protagonist ends up becoming essentially regarded as him.
KTravlos
Hi Kaiser. Supposedly this is a re-imagining of the original story. Thus independent of the OVAs (old serieis). What exactly re-imagining means is something I and you do not know. We shall see. But it does mean that you do not need to watch the old series to enjoy this one. The OVA was definetly more expansive than the novels. So my guess is they will stick to the novels.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There's another anime, called Tytania based on his novels but I haven't seen that series.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As in condensable in the way nothing much is lost? I assume there are fillers in the original?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm indifferent to the aesthetics of the new version. What I'm hoping for is that it will be accessible to newcomers and that I'll be able to jump on to the old series where the new one leaves off. I've seen very little of the original and it was a long time ago, is there any way the story is condensable?
KTravlos
The fact that they stayed away from the disgusting new manga is great. I am not too keen on the CGI ships, but they also did not rankle. It looks like it will honor the spirit of the old series, and I cannot ask for more. I am a massive LOGH fan. And the new video out gives me hope of revisiting one of the greatest sci-fi/historical settings out there. I am happy.
AidanAK47
I hope they are using the old anime as a base and not the new Manga adaption. As that Manga adaption is seriously lacking.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I like that they blinged up the space battles which is good because those things could get tiresome. But I really hate the design of Yang Wenli. They made him look so much younger and bishi. I don't think i could take this guy seriously if he started one of Wenli's signature hypothesis.
Anonymous1408919
Thoughts on that new LOGH PV? My expectations were low, so I'm presently surprised. Obviously they made everybody pretty boys, and Mamoro Miyano is voicing Reinhard I believe. But art and animation actually looks pretty decent overall. It's a PV, and LOGH's best quality is it's story and characters, so we'll have to see if they remain faithful or not. But it's nice to see it get a visual overhaul.
AidanAK47
By the way this site has the first chapters but check the other versions to find them.
http://mangapark.me/manga/tsurezure-children-wakabayashi-toshiya
AidanAK47
@Mario, Indeed. It's also a pity that over half the couples in the manga were not featured. We only got a small taste of Patricia.
SuperMario
Or maybe I'll try to read the manga. The last time I checked it online, the site doesn't have its first few chapters
SuperMario
@Aidan: man, Tsurezure Children sure is sweet. Really sad to see it ends
AidanAK47
So that's the end of Tsurezure Children.
....I'm gonna need a second season. Now.
....NOW GODDAMNIT! NOW!
KTravlos
As I said I understand the criticisms to RE:Creator, but ultimately I enjoyed most of the show. It could had been better, and it is a missed chance. But I have seen worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I gave up halfway through, there weren't even enough action scenes and those that were didn't justify waiting around for.
AidanAK47
Could have at least delivered on the action but that was rendered pointless due to the majority of the cast turning good and Altair being a complete cheat character.
AidanAK47
It would have been really fun to see characters discuss their stories with their creators or indulge in what our world has to offer but they really glossed over that part.
AidanAK47
It really should have gone deeper into the whole meta aspect introducing anime characters to the real world. Like they did with Mamika's powers being ridiculously destructive when outside a kid friendly setting.
AidanAK47
@Puran, I at least like the message of the final episode. But as for the show itself it was just missed potential on a lot of levels. I wanted Anime Genre battle royale and instead got a secondhand Shirobako with a crap shounen anime attached.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have been forgiving of Anno as I've gotten older.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also just re-watched gunbuster, I'd previously dismissed the ova after a few episodes when I was a teenager, I'd found it too slow, didn't have that issue with the 90 minute version I just finished. I've never see the sequels.
Lenlo
Ill have to finish Creators... at some point
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've been dipping back into the Lupin franchise, Gold of babylon was particularly screwball, kind of ridiculous comedy caper/adventure thing you just have to run with....turns out it was directed by a live action filmaker I especially like who made bizzare noir films in the 60s.
Puran
So that explains why Meteora had so much air time in Re:Creators. It's her story....

I hated the ending and I disliked the anime overall.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was a genuine surprise to see that Assayas decided to make a film framed around hentai =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I loved how incoherent demonlover was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The criticisms I'll give wind river, is a slight inconsistent performance from Renner and that very awkwardly inserted flashback scene.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: on Wind River, I agree it's a well-executed case of the week drama, although there are some plot pregressions that I don't get (how did they find out about the man's corspe again?). About Demonlover, man, the film gives me a chill down my spine. Heartless. And a bit misogynist.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: as much as I loved Wong (yeah I too prefer him over Malick), sometimes I do think Western cinema give him too much praise that sadly overshadow other Asian directors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wong is important to me as a hong-kong filmaker, he offers something entirely different from the whole Woo/Lam Hong komg movies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On a more positive note Maggie Cheung did mention that she felt her early work with Wong was when she first truly became a proper actress.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I had no idea he had such a sad background.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*investigation drama
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that film also marked/ signified a rather sad period of Hongkong showbiz. Leslie Cheung badically lived the live of the protagonist and commited suicide in 1997. His girlfriend on screen, during the filming, was kidnaped, raped and taken topless picture. The damnest thing is that everyone knowed the culprit but did nothing, and in the press it was just deemed as "kipnapped and assaulted"
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wind river was a big surprise for me, just goes to show that with the right execution an ordinary police drama movie can be elevated higher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thats the interesting thing, tracking a directors career.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just binge watched the new dominion tank police ovas , admittedly these are kind of reptitive and extremely silly but its hard to hate on something so shamelessly fun that made me feel like a child again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: you said it there. DoBW is rather raw and unpolished but that's one of the reason why I am drawn to it more compare to his other works.
AidanAK47
In all honesty, it would be nice to finally see a continuation after fusion as all games after that have just been adding chapters in-between.
Vonter
Finally I wonder, if Metroid Prime 4 will definitely branch out of the main Metroid's continuity. It's curious how an interquel subseries is still going to add things in between the first and the second entries in the main franchise.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - I think is nice we can see both takes. Especially since neither one despite a few qualms are still very solid entries for this franchise. I just hope Metroid moves forward, as IMO this is the only game that really needed a facelift do to the heavy limitations of the gameboy. And I hope the secret gallery at the end is teasing how the producer plans to move the plot forward.
AidanAK47
I thought it might be like that but it's good to know they are at least on a close level. I didn't really want Samus Returns to replace AM2R as the "Definitive" version of Metroid 2. Mostly because a lot of love was put into AM2R andit came at a point when it felt Nintendo didn't give a crap about Metroid.
Vonter
Like Zero Mission there's something added to Samus Returns but I'll just leave it at that.
Vonter
I think both have strong points. Samus Returns have better boss battles, gameplay mechanics and more intense action pieces. AM2R IMO has more atmosphere, takes advantage of elements Nintendo don't even try like the Federation subplot, and the ending portion narratively has more heart in AM2R, while in Samus Returns it feels mostly like "the final level".
Vonter
I also did got lost a couple of times in Samus Returns and aside from the big water section in AM2R, the latter is more linear game.
Vonter
I think the controls in Samus Returns bring more to the table though. The 360 aiming makes for better ways to shoot enemies and some of the bosses take advantage of that. If it weren't for the 3DS giving hand cramps because you're holding L and R at several points it'll be completely the most ideal way to play.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - AM2R is very good, I think it has the advantage that because it uses sprites IMO backgrounds and enemies are more vibrant and easier to appreciate. The Federation soldiers are better executed in AM2R and that secret section with the ship is very eery.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, How does it stack up to AM2R? I bought it and am still waiting on it to be delivered but I have the feeling that AM2R would be the better game when comparing.
Vonter
I took me 12 hours to 100% and I've heard the best ending is beating it in less than 4 hours. I think unlike Zero Mission item percentage don't matter, it's mainly to unlock an art gallery.
Vonter
My main criticism is this being a 3DS game. Small enemies can be hard to see or appreciate. And I think the 3DS wasn't made for heavy action packed games like this or Smash Bros. I got the rubber from the circle pad come off in two occasions. Also unless there was something big in the background, several areas felt lacking in detail. Still Samus and the bosses look good.
Vonter
In terms of difficulty, the game has the enemies packing more damage than in other 2D Metroids. Is difficult in the sense than you can't tank damage as in other iterations, you have to be aware of enemy behavior and bosses mainly get easier do to familiarizing with their patterns, since I did die a lot each time I faced a new boss. And got used to kill them faster as I went along.
Vonter
Ok, so I beat Samus Returns. It's quite good. Unlike Fusion that had dialogue at midst the gameplay. Samus Returns only has a prologue of exposition and any cutscenes mainly accentuate the reactions of Samus confronting a new enemy. The level design is dense, despite having isolated areas like in Fusion and the original Samus Returns, each area is very mazelike.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: =< Awww I kind of like demonlover actually despite all its flaws, it had great sound design and had this cold, clinical, un-nerving mood to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Days of being wild does feel a bit un-realized/un-polished/rough compared to his other work definitely but its probably the rawest I've seen from him and that has its appeal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Haven't seen farewell my concubine come to think of it. Regarding the scifi element I felt I embraced it more further into the film when it started to intermingle more.
While I am more forgiving toward Malick's recent films than most, that decline in quality means I have to pick Wong.
KTravlos
by the way in RE:Creators we probably will be getting a future series focusing on the hunt for Magane :p Meteora probably playing the role of detective. I also bet her novel will be wordy and heavy in exposition :p
KTravlos
i.e his end game might had been a cross-species revolution against him anyway. We will see
KTravlos
In Bahamut Chris proves to not be totally evil, but he is totally crazy. That said I am seeing one of my hunches getting supported, the hunch was that his cruelty towards daemons was with the purpose of bringing them down enough that they would be willing to work with humans as euals (As they are in Jean's army) and thus via that create a more unified world. I
KTravlos
RE: Creators has come to its end. I know the problems everyone has with it, and while it failed to raise to the level of exceptional show, I loved it. As I said, it had been years since a show kept me so excited episode after episode. They blew it at some point, but ultimately for me this is an en-joyful show, and one I would happily binge watch in the future again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: question for you though, between these two directors, which one do you prefer: Wong Kar-Wai or Terrance Malick?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: if you enjoyed both 2046 and In the Mood for Love, by all mean check out Days of Being Wild. The trio forms a loose trilogy and Days of Being Wild was the first film that Wong began his unique unconventional style. It's one of my personal favorite of Wong and it's a chance for you to watch the late Leslie Cheung acted (you might watch him already in Farewell My Concubine)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: 2046 is indeed a passionate film, and one of his best looking film. He tried something different in 2046 too, experimented with scifi (one of the best part in the film for me)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's stritcly Wong Kar Wai's romance we're talking about, since I don't find the rest of Chinese take on romance that interesting. Romance or melodrama is one of his main theme throughout his career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was slightly overly long however.
I've also seen chungking express, in the mood for love and fallen angels. I think this Chinese take on romance is really clicking with me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also thought it was a very passionette film and I love how Kar-wong-wai uses the music in it. I also think its one of his best looking films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I had a look at that Chinese film 2046, very effectively melancholic take on fleeting relationships while also successfully being quite sensual while staying classy and without ever showing too much. Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung are two beautiful people =P
SuperMario
for those who still want to catch up with 18if, episode 11 has a huge recap, while wrapping up the show with a new overarching plot. Hopefully they don't pull another Matrix here
SuperWooper
It's shounen-y for sure. The competitions have been my least favorite parts of the show so far. If you're still watching, you might appreciate it more once the Tenpei Cup is over.
Anonymous1399692
Damn Ballroom looks so good. But I really can't enjoy it despite that I want to. It has too many of these typical shounen moments and plot points I can't stand.
Anonymous1399684
Omae wa mou shindeiru
Lenlo
Mononoke is actually what made me find Ayakashi. Also a good show.
SuperMario
Regarding Ayakashi, I only watched the Mononoke segment
SuperMario
"It was a long, long trip, and we're coming finally to the end of the journey. Thank you, Manoyama and Chupacabra. And thank you, 5 EURO" - Sandal-san.
Lenlo
Ayakashi was great for me Kaiser. I enjoyed my time with it
Vonter212
@AidanAK47 - The hard aspect has been commented in several reviews with bosses being able to easily kill you. (Although in my experience it might be just getting a pattern). In terms of length most 2D games can be beaten under 3 hours. This one seems to clock at at least 6 to 15 if you want to collect everything. Then again, we'll see in subsequent playthroughs.
AidanAK47
`@Vonter. It's out now but I don't remember seeing anyone claim it's the longest hardest entry 2D wise.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Going to watch new dominion tank police next and read violence action and Oddman 11.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It took me years to get round to it, but I finally watched Ayakashi and as expected like most anthologies, again its mixed, the first is a solid ghost story that improves after a weak start, but that third one with the cat spirit was great, really liked how experimental that looked.
Vonter
Soo a new Metroid comes out this week. It is said, it's the longest, hardest entry in regards to the 2D iterations. Still not as great as Super, and depending on your fanaticism it might or not be as good as Zero Mission.
SuperMario
But they didn't pull that scene off too well. It's just... unmemorable. In fact the whole show is very unremarkable. Now only 1 episode left I might as well finish it but I won't give it a full review
SuperMario
Koi to Uso has been disappointing so far. Episode 10 featured the sequence that i was looking forward the most in the manga: the former classmate tells the one sided crush of the main girl from her POV. For a romance that contrived and manipulated like this one, hearing this from the third person's perspective prove to be more powerful
Vonter
@HelghastKillzone - Good luck with that. I almost had my car's engine damaged since it has been raining heavily where I live. Had to ask for help the next day to pull it out of mud. Still not as bad as the other three cars that did get stuck in the water.
HelghastKillzone
Dealing with work and the total loss of my car really sucks at the moment so I'm quite tied up for this week.
KTravlos
I do agree to a point, but to be frank all the episodes of Princess Principal to date have been so solid I have a hard time deciding. Episode 5 though was still the best from a holistic point (action, direction, music etc) was the one introducing Chise
SuperMario
Agree. Dorothy has the biggest heart out of all the spy girls. Also "help" that her episodes are all melodramatic.
Amagi
This episode of PrinPrin showed again that Dorothy is the best character by far. Not just herself but her episodes as well are better written than the rest if you ask me.
KTravlos
It just hit me. The characters in Princess Principal may be very well working for IngSoc :p
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, in the seven chapters it's only really two of them that contain dark shocking content. Chapter three being the biggest one in that regard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read a comment where someone said subahibi shocked them more than saya no uta. While I haven't played it yet, I have seen some of a letsplay...it lleft me thinking....how many hours until this actually gets good/truly unhinged .
AidanAK47
After Reading SubaHibi, Made in Abyss's dark turn didn't shock me too much. Maybe I just got desensitised. I will have a review of SubaHibi hopefully up in a week though to clarify my feelings on it after just finishing it, It was interesting but disappointing.
KTravlos
well, well. Both Made in the Abyss and Virgin Soul do not hold back. Grim! RE:Creators is warping up. Comparing with these other shows I can fully appreciate the problems people have with it. But still I am glad I am sticking to the end. Altair's voice actor by the way did great.
AidanAK47
@Helghast, And Kings Field was the Demon Souls before Demon Souls came out.
KTravlos
having binge watched several of this season's shows I would say Princess Principal is the most rounded. Made in Abyss is good. Kakegurui and The Reflection as SuperMario said will depend on your tastes. There is also Shouko no Altair. You will like it if you liked Tanya Saga of Evil, or Legend of Galactic Heroes, or Arslan Senki or manga like Vinland Saga, Gunka no Baltzar, and especially Historie
Anonymous1385641
Jesus...me watching this weeks Made in Abyss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogzsWhZcmM
HelghastKillzone
So... Demon Souls was the Dark Souls before Dark Souls came out.
SuperMario
@anon1385426: the safest bets aside from Made in Abyss are Welcome to the Ballroom and Princess Principal. Kakegurui and the Refection are for more acqurired taste
Anonymous1385426
Aside from Made in Abyss, what's the best anime this season?
Lenlo
@KT, the pacing and the framerate early on are my two biggest issues. Later on the story starts to get abit more engaging, and they start doin things I didnt expect, but the pacing is still there. Some akward pauses.
Lenlo
Look, Berserk and Dark Souls are both amazing. But I only have 3 Dark Souls games, and 38 Berserk volumes. Im clearly biased
KTravlos
I sat down and watched the first 4 episodes of The Reflection. It is an interesting attempt, and I can see the people making it having fun doing so. But I did notice a pacing issue. For some reason the episodes felt like they dragged a bit too long.
AidanAK47
Dark Souls is the Berserk of Video Games.
Amagi
Dark Souls really went all Berserk if you ask me
AidanAK47
I am not one for putting down law but can we never ever compare anything to Dark Souls ever again? Cause it's actually become really tiresome how everything is the dark souls of something.
Lenlo
No other sentence has made me want to watch Made in Abyss more
HelghastKillzone
I guess we're finally at the point where Made in Abyss goes all Dark Souls/Bloodborne.
Amagi
Apo's Jack the Ripper had at least a nice idea behind it, it's just the clothes that are a bad choice. But there are just too many lolis for the sake of fanservice in that game. I accept it if there is at least a reason for this but it's usually just random.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here. I was never a fan of genderbendings and turning historical people into lolis. The first one I can accept with people like Arthuria because it added a lot to her character, but most of them are just plain and generic. I just see no reason why pirates, grown up men or Blavatsky would ever appear as little girls. Especially since popular beliefs should influence their appearance.
SuperMario
On Altair, one commenter did an excellent job of poiting out the appeal of that show; and frankly the show is wearing on me now.
SuperMario
@Travlos: I'm glad you enjoy Princess Principal. I'm quite surprised myself that in the latter half the show slowed its pace down which mean the focus is switched from action to more characters interactions; which I greatly enjoy
KTravlos
Well I binge watched Princess Principal. That is a very good show. I was surprised. Good animation, good music, the art is good, hell I even did not mind the protagonist art. But what I really like is the stories. All the episode were pretty solid and interesting.
AidanAK47
Just won a fight by the skin of my teeth thanks to my Lancer, Cu Chulainn. You the man Cu!
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Been playing Grand Order myself. It's rather fun. There are some good original character in it but I notice with Quantity certain figures designs were pretty terrible. I thought Assassins of black was the worst but some Grand Order servents manage to top it in terrible. Why all the bikini's?
Amagi
Fate/GO has quite some interesting original characters there. Wish we'd see them in some actual manga or anime series with more backstory someday. - I also like that we finally have an overpowered, interesting and competent Hassan with King Hassan for once. His design is metal AF too.
KTravlos
Binge watched Altair. The pacing of the show is a problem, but in general the raw material is good. Altair is sympathetic, and the world is interesting. But I do feel this is the kind of show that would had gained by a Monster or LOGH type treatment. Also, man it is scary how accurate they got some of the traits of Greeks (Phoenicians in the show). I am a Greek, I should know! :p
KTravlos
forgot to mention. I saw the 91 Days special. Three side stories that give some depth to the events in the main anime, but nothing that goes beyond it's end. Still they were in general ok to good.
SuperWooper
It's got Jude Law playing "this kind of huge robot butler called Charles, who is also a rocket ship." What could possibly go wrong?
AidanAK47
Anime with Jaden Smith? Um..I don't know about this.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: one of the good thing about SoL shows like Centaur and even 18if is that their episodes are self-contained, so you can just jump right in to watch the good ones and ignore the rest
SuperMario
I just love Chise's presence so I might enjoy the last episode more than anyone else. But yeah I'm quite satisfied with Princess Principal right now
AidanAK47
Actually I am quite surprised Princess Principal hasn't gone off the rails yet. Might even turn out to be a fun show in the end. If the man can make it to the finish line without a misstep.
AidanAK47
Hey I am having fun with my Shows. Made in Abyss is still quite excellent and Fate/Apoc is picking up. Even started playing Fate/Grand Order.
Lenlo
Man, sounds like I was the only one to have a good week with their show. Reflection really stepped it up this week in pretty much every category. Not sure it will last, but hey. Ill take one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm so disappointed in 18...if. Perfect opportunity to capitalize on something with a dreamlike feel to it and be creative only it ends up getting held back.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I see Vonter and Mario are seducing me into watching Centaur.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*can't
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can'y see myself giving re creators a second chance, and from skimming these conversations, why should the show only get going at the end? It just sounds like too little too late.
AidanAK47
Honestly that's what Re:Creators biggest issue is. It builds up these great interesting idea's and then refuses to capitalize on them.
AidanAK47
Then it would be a battle to win over the audience and he who entertains them the most would get the most power. Just think of how many interesting ways that would take the fight. Like Altair could lose power and have to win over the crowd with her backstory and theatrics. A hero could purposefully get beaten to hell just so they can get a powerup from saying a boastful speech about kicking ass.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Exactly. Now there is an interesting fighting element. Imagine if both Altair and the heroes had to fight with the limitation of keeping the audience entertained. Altair couldn't pull out overpowered nonsense because the audience wouldn't approve and her power would drop. Same goes for the heroes.
Anonymous1378112
On the other hand I am not a fan of this whole final arc. It's just not believable to me to gather such a big audience who will do nothing but watch and accept everything you show them. Not to mention that the show is technically live acting to them. Considering how much anime fanbases already hate the DN movie and stuff I doubt many would sit there and accept that
Anonymous1378112
@Aidan: This made me pretty angry. like, they wasted a ton of screentime with these boring info dumps and now they're just irrelevant and the enemy just fucks over it
AidanAK47
Actually the last development was actually a screw the rules moment as well. So the only way to beat Altair is to just chuck aside the rules established with the last 20 episodes.
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