Posted by psgels on 15 October 2007 with categories: Les Miserables - Shoujo Cosette


Holy! Flippin’! Heck!!!

Christ, I can’t believe the creators really went SO FAR IN THIS EPISODE!! I can’t believe what happened at the beginning of the episode. Obviously, it involves spoilers. DO NOT READ THIS ENTRY IF YOU HAVE NEITHER SEEN THE EPISODE NOR READ THE BOOK!!! This sentence is there to fill space in the blog aggregators.

Seriously… oh my god. I never expected the creators to actually kill off my favourite character of the entire series off so cruelly. This episode became utterly incredible because of it, but still… Eponine is really gone now… This was by FAR the best episode of the entire series. And with such an excellent series already, that HAS TO SAY SOMETHING.

I absolutely loved how Eponine managed to confess her love in the end at least. Not only was it great that she finally was released of the burden in her heart, but this also made Marius realize what he had done to her. In anime, love triangles are often forced, but the one between Cosette, Eponine and Marius was a mighty fine exception. It really featured perfect build-up and it used this build-up perfectly.

I seriously urge everyone to check out this series, and perhaps get some fansubbing group to sub beyond the fifth episode. With this episode, Les Miserables has really turned into one of the best series of the year, and it really shows the power of 52-episoded series.

And if that wasn’t enough, the upcoming attractions are looking really interesting too: Gavroche will finally meet Cosette again, and Javert has been unmasked as a spy.

(PS: apologies for the delay, but I’ve been really busy for the past days. You might expect more of these delays for the next few months. Still, this episode was SO worth the wait!)

42 Responses

  1. Windspirit says:

    Why the freaking hell doesn’t anybody subb this ??! Looks so great, exactly the type of series i LOVE, and yet, everybody’s too busy watching crap like harems or stupid stereotyped shonen.

  2. Chris says:

    I can’t even find RAWs for this anymore! :( I was wondering when the anime would reach this point and how’d you react to it (did you know at all? It’s a very huge part of the play) the musical version is also very sad at this part but I just want to see this anime version already!

    World Masterpiece Theater anime never dissapoint, I suggest you watch their other shows if you can.

  3. TheWestExit says:

    Why it doesn’t get subbed:

    -It’s a Shoujo series, or a show for little girls. Even though there’s alot of mature subject mature and the characters and plot have a metric bitch ton of development and depth, fansubbers are always reluctant to do historical shows and shoujo shows so combining them doesn’t help.

    -The anime community isn’t well versed in classical literature historically and a show like this demands that there me a quality checker who is extremely knowledgeable in both the time period and the source material. This take more work than most groups are prepared or used to doing. Just look at a series like Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei, the Japanese in that is of a very high level so it requires alot of work to translate it, also it has all those awesome little comments.

    -It’s not very popular. The fansub community is very needy for affection. Fansubbers want their work to be recognized by a group of people. There’s little incentive to sub a series that’ll have a very small, silent base.

    I was looking forward to this alot, I’m a fan of Les Misérables, but oh well. I have to wait ’til it gets licenced and even that’s a very slim possibility.

  4. Steven says:

    DUDE….. i would never watch this series… why?

    because no anime can truely remake this story. IF POSSIBLE, you should take a road trip to NEW YORK, and watch the musical there. Just titled Les Miserables, it is utterly incredible, better than any anime can ever recreate it. i actually have no idea why they would make it into an anime… plus it is unlike no other, the stage is actually a spinning stage, basically a big round disk spinning and it is amazing.

  5. Hhmmm... says:

    I truly want to watch this…seriously people only care for harem/shonen crap or worse kodomo no jikan

    They should give this a chance, I doubt it will even get licenced

  6. Nicholas says:

    Eponine was my favorite character, too. D:

  7. totoum says:

    ” IF POSSIBLE, you should take a road trip to NEW YORK, and watch the musical there. ”
    if not possible because you live on another continent what do you do?

    now ureshii fansubs did the first 3 and then dropped it on july 15th but they posted this:
    “We are still interested in doing this series if any translator wants to do it. Just join our recruits channel (#ureshii-recruits@irc.rizon.net) and ask about it if you are interested. If not, Fantine will remain separated from Cossette, and you don’t want that do you?”
    then formula subs picked it up and posted this did the first 6 but havn’t released anything in nearly 2 months,still,they have this project listed as “active” so they havn’t given up but they’re short on staff “‘ll point this out again, but we are currently looking for a Typesetter and Translation Checker. Thank You”
    Not to mention that acording to the poll on their site,les miserable is the most liked of their projects,so there’s a demand.

    if you can help,i think those 2 groups would certainly welcome you with open arms.

  8. R says:

    What continent are you on?

  9. totoum says:

    europe,and psgels is also in europe.

  10. R says:

    Well, Broadway isn’t the only option; there’s London, and a few places in Europe, although I’m not exactly sure where at the moment and I’d have to look it up.

  11. TheWestExit says:

    Or you could, y’know, read the book.

  12. R says:

    I think that goes without saying.

  13. Tania says:

    It IS really a sad episode!!! I’ve cried a lot!! I could’t help crying. She was the best character ever and didn’t want her to suffer. And I wonder why Cosette has a beautiful life whereas Eponine has to die. IT is NOT FAIR ! I wanted Marius be with her not with Cosette. She doesn’t deserve him , Eponine do. Marius is really an idiot not to choose Eponine . She’s the bravest and also the most beautiful character I’ve ever seen !!! So just why does he prefer Cosette? I’ve loved the character of Eponine from the very beginning, I’ve never preferred Cosette, so I want her to be happy!
    Well, since she had to die according to the book, she’ll definitely remain a heroine. Cosette won’t. She didn’t sacrifice herself for anyone.She just remain hidden in her mansion , safe from any danger. I wish Eponine could live in her beautiful house and have no problems at all with Marius who loves HER.
    But it was really an exceptionnal episode and the best ever even if it was unbearably sad. I just could’t take it anymore! When she recognized the voice of Gavroche or when she talked about Cosette. And that damn Marius could at least to say thanks cause she saved HIS LIFE!!!
    Well, anyway she ‘ll definitely remain alive in my heart and my imagination.

  14. Chris says:

    Oh I was sure a story very similiar to Cosette was out there, an old anime that showed on Mexican TV (and other countries but I viewed it on Mexican televsion) called Candy Candy, it’s said to be the best shoujo of all time according to a Japanese poll and has been dubbed in every language but english. You may want to look into the series because it almost exactly the same as Cosette (both are original but similiar in tone, setting, and characters)

  15. R says:

    Anyone who thinks Eponine is supposed to be pretty needs to read the book as an antidote to their confusion. Her family is desperately poor. She’s a petty thief, and possibly a hooker. Not the first choice of ideal spouses for someone of Marius’s social standing.

  16. Irene says:

    She’s also half-crazy in the book, which might be something of a deterrent. xD

  17. Dookers says:

    I’m pretty sure Eponine’s death wasn’t meant as a testimony to Cosette being a cruel heartless rat, Tania. First of all, back then it was considered improper for a young woman of the upper class/bourgeoisie(sp?) to go out in public by herself, and, at this pint, if she ran off to fight with Marius, Jean would probably think something was wrong with her, and she sems like the type who wouldn’t wanna upset her father in the slightest way. Second of all, I’m not a literary (or historical) scholar, but I see it as Eponine’s death and overall her crappy life (from the time Jean took Cosette away from the Thénardiers) was supposed to convey the message that the poor people in Paris didn’t usually get what/who they wanted/loved/dedicated their purpose in life to, and how little sympathy they got anyways.

    (side note: For some reason or another, I became more attached to Sonozaki Shion from Higurashi as a figure of tragic unrequited love than to Eponine. It’d take a while to explain.)

    But I’m gonna watch this episode to see how they handle Eponine’s death. It’s kinda strange what love does to people, I’ll say.

  18. Tania says:

    Actually I’ve read the book and I know that Eponine is described as an ugly young woman due to the poverty ( Cosette was described the same way when she was little and worked for the Thénardiers )who says curse words and is obviously a petty thief. I know she’s half crazy too (hard not to nocice it ).I have no doubt about it and I don’t need any antidote because I know exactly what it’s talking about. But I said she was really beautiful in the anime, I didn’t mean in the book . Maybe you think Cosette is prettier than Eponine , and you have the right to think it. I just gave my opinion .But you can’t say Eponine isn’t pretty in the anime. I can even prove it. Mabeuf in the 30th episode ( when she watered the flowers for him) said : utsukushi ojosama which means beautiful young woman and at the end I think the woman said kawai( I’m not sure) which means cute. I ‘ve seen lots of anime series but I found that Eponine was the most beautiful ever. Ever since she was little . I know she’s not supposed to be that way but she IS in this serie ( ANIME) , it’s a fact, you must admit that she’s far from being ugly. Even in rags, she remains really pretty. And I wanted to clarify one more thing. I don’t say Cosette is a cruel heartless rat . I just say that she’s not perfect. Nobody is . She makes mistakes too . I don’t blame her cause she hasn’t interfered in the revolution, I know perfectly well that she couldn’t. But according to the book, at the end she’ll leave her “father” who cared for her so much and can’t live without her. That wasn’t a good thing to do. What do you think? it wasn’t very kind of her .
    But that’s not the reason why I prefer Eponine.
    I just like her very much! I don’t know why , maybe because she has such a personality! I just love the way she is . I wanted her to be happy even if I knew that she dies in the book . Maybe I didn’t want to expect such cruelty from the creators. I just couldn’t keep it . Moreover, she’s particularly cute. I think the one who created this anime must have loved this character too.
    She’s not at all a half crazy ugly girl described in the book, that’s a good point. I haven’t nocided any sign of crazyness or ugliness in her. And you ? And I wanted to know if you think that Marius should have been more grateful to her ? Because I do . That’s just a question not an offense.

  19. Tania says:

    Sorry, when I mentioned Mabeuf saying Eponine was beautiful in the episode 30th , it was a mistake. Actually IT IS in the 32nd . When she watered the plants . But I was very tired when I wrote it , it was the night. And I spent the whole day at school and had a test( 5 hours of philosophy!).
    Sorry again.

  20. Sarah says:

    You should watch before posting spoilers, Tania, because psgels hasn’t read the book and doesn’t know what’s going to happen XD

    And I do agree with what you’re saying, but honestly, I feel that the anime-Marius was a lot kinder to Eponine than the Marius in the book. In the book he barely cared she was dying…he was too busy reading Cosette’s letter and thinking about his darling Cosette to care

  21. Broked Foot says:

    We at Delicious Fansubs have always been willing to take this project the full way, but our translator went missing in action shortly after our last release without a word, and lacking a translator there’s not really much that we can do.

  22. R says:

    1) I can think of other women in anime who are definitely prettier. I’m not crazy about all the character designs in this series.

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    2) She doesn’t really leave her father, it’s much more the other way around. He feels uncomfortable in the Gillenormands’ home and doesn’t spend much time there, despite her efforts to convince him. He walks out of her wedding dinner. Plus Marius is uncomfortable with him after that one conversation and pushes him away further.

  23. Irene says:

    SPOILER ALERT!

    Personally, I’m inclined to agree with R. Valjean’s often described as viewing himself as Marius’s rival for Cosette’s affections, and after Cosette is married he doesn’t really see a need to remain any longer. That said, if we’re going to blame anyone for Valjean’s isolation at the end of the book, we should probably look at Marius, who was definitely rather chilly toward him after he learned of Valjean’s past.

  24. Tania says:

    Response to Sarah .
    I agree with what you said too, the anime-Marius is really kinder to Eponine than in the book. He acts much like her friend . In the book, he obviously avoids her even knowing that his happyness is due to her and don’t care about her death. In the anime, he doesn’t want her to die and keep saying ” hold on !”

  25. Tania says:

    Response to R
    Eponine is a petty thief in the book but she IS NOT a hooker. And especially in this serie. Don’t talk about her that way! Her love for Marius is pure. I think that besides Toron , and she was very little by the time, Marius is her first and only love ( and the last one too). If it wasn’t, she would not have died for him. Even in the book, she acts like a child sometimes and I just can’t imagine her to look at other men. Besides, she lives with her parents by the time she meets Marius and her only real company seems to be Azelma. Even if she often has to face the gang of her father ( “the Patrominet”).

    • Selene says:

      She’s not a hooker, persay, but she was involved in prostitution of sorts. She was also the mistress of Montparnasse, which isn’t mentioned in the anime, but is in the book. That’s why Montparnasse is always referring to himself as Thenardier’s son in law. Thoug i can’t remember if thats in the anime either. Though i agree with you. Her love is as pure and as real as cosette’s easily.

  26. R says:

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    Her only love? Um, it’s made pretty clear that she sleeps with Montparnasse, at the very least.

    Another opportunity of laying hands on that “devil’s dandy” must be waited for. Montparnasse had, in fact, encountered Eponine as she stood on the watch under the trees of the boulevard, and had led her off, preferring to play the lover with the daughter rather than the crook with the father. It was well that he did so. He was free. (Slightly paraphrased.)

  27. Tania says:

    If she slept with Montparnasse and loved him too then why did she give her life to save Marius ? Moreover, even if it’s possible in the book SHE WOULD NEVER DO SO IN THE ANIME. Well just look at her! She’s honest in her feelings for Marius and upright. Well, actually I found Montparnasse kind of handsome in this serie , well, maybe she should have fallen in love with him , at least she (maybe) wouldn’t have died but she didn’t fall in love with him. Feelings can’t be explained. Anyway, I don’t agree with you on that point. Eponine is for me a symbol of purity. A fallen angel. And she’s too proud to act that way. She has always been so proud of herself. Try to remember her childhood. So it’s just impossible. It doesn’t fit at all with her character.

    • Selene says:

      Well, she is far from purity. She is kinda like fantine in the way that she was also a prostitute, and only did what she did for money, but despised it at the same time. And she didn’t really have feelings for Montparnasse, but she was his mistress. And she became desperate when she was poor. But this might not be true in the anime, however it was 100% true in the book

  28. Tania says:

    If she slept with Montparnasse and loved him too then why did she give her life to save Marius ? Moreover, even if it’s possible in the book SHE WOULD NEVER DO SO IN THE ANIME. Well just look at her! She’s honest in her feelings for Marius and upright. Well, actually I found Montparnasse kind of handsome in this serie , well, maybe she should have fallen in love with him , at least she (maybe) wouldn’t have died but she didn’t fall in love with him. Feelings can’t be explained. Anyway, I don’t agree with you on that point. Eponine is for me a symbol of purity. A fallen angel. And she’s too proud to act that way. She has always been so proud of herself. Try to remember her childhood. So it’s just impossible. It doesn’t fit at all with her character.

  29. R says:

    Anyway, I don’t agree with you on that point.

    Take it up with Victor Hugo, then. She does indeed sleep with Montparnasse.

  30. Irene says:

    Hugo implies that Eponine sleeps with Montparnasse, not that she loves him. There’s a difference.

    In any case, bookverse!Eponine leads Marius to the barricades because she hopes he’ll die there. She tried to kill him because she knew she couldn’t have him and only saves his life at the end because part of her regrets her actions. She’s petty and childish and emotionally stunted, and a far cry from the idealized gamine you seem to be describing.

    (It’s spelt Patron-Minette, by the way.)

  31. Tania says:

    Alright, I get it. By the way, I know why she said to Marius to go to the barricades ( it wasn’t precised in the anime , only in the book ) but even it is her fault that he happened to be there, it was quite brave from her to get the bullet which was intented for him. Don’t you think ? And even if she slept with Montparnasse it doesn’t really change my opinion about her. Sleeping with Montparnasse doesn’t mean she’s a hooker. Then her love for Marius changed her. True love can really change people’s life. Remember, she used to say curse words before she met Marius! At the end, she reminds me of the little mermaid who would rather die herself than live knowing she’s responsible of his death. At first, she thinks she may be able to kill the prince to save her own life but she realizes that she just can’t do it. There’s something like that in the way she dies. She’s quite unstable in the book, for example when she refuses the money Marius gives her in exchange for leading him to the place Cosette lives in. She just throws it back to him and it falls on the ground. And when she hears Gavroche singing she says : ” Don’t say him I’m here .If you do, he’s going to scold me .” It was indeed a sign of crazyness. But what I’m saying is that she is idealized in the anime. Don’t you think so? I’m quite sure she is! She doen’t speak at all like a half-crazy girl. They made her this way and it is obvious right away. There’s something different if we compare her to her character in the book. What do you think ? I started to watch this serie nearly one year ago and I loved the way she’s described there even if I like very much her character in the book too. I’m not the one who imagines her perfect because they represented her that way in the serie.

  32. angedemystere says:

    Well, from what I’ve seen from the earlier episodes, the anime portrays young Eponine as a spoiled brat (mostly due to the way her parents raised her and treated Cosette), so the creators probably wanted her to seem more sympathetic now that she’s dirt poor and wandering in the streets, so we don’t say, “Ha, she got what she deserved!” The truth is, Eponine has a heart, she’s just lived in a very bad environment all her life. The anime creators probably thought it best to make that more obvious, however, by making her more physically and in other ways appealing.

    By the way, the hooker issue comes from the fact that Thernadier hired out Eponine as a prostitute to bring in some extra money. Sadly, child prostitution was a real problem in those days. But if you were extremely poor, you had to do what you had to do. Morally wrong? Of course, but people sometimes resort to stealing in the same situation. (i.e. Valjean!) Of course, they do not include Eponine’s prositution in the anime. (I don’t even know how much they emphasize it in the book.) Come on, if they didn’t have Fantine become a prostitute . . .

  33. Tania says:

    Yeah, I quite agree with you when you say that Eponine grew up in a very bad environment all her live. First of all , she’s actually never been a brat, she would have remained nice towards Cosette if her mother didn’t interfere in their relationship and didn’t treat Cosette like some kind of a tramp dog. Remember after her mother’s departure, she’s the one who proposed to Cosette to go and play with her and Azelma in their room. But the mother had other projects for this poor child. And children always act like their parents , they would never turn against them ( well, there’re some exeptions like Gavroche but it’s because he wasn’t loved by his mother so it’s not likely ). So they’d rather turn against Cosette. I could never blame Eponine for not being at Cosette’s side. Because I’m sure I would do the same if I had her parents. As a child, my parents were an example for me. Would you rather be at the side of a girl you know practically nothing or at your parents’. It’s an easy answer, don’t you think ? And besides, haven’t you noticed she has always been so kind with everybody exept Cosette . She just can’t stand her and I believe she thinks Cosette steals away every boy she loves. Which is actually true. Cosette doesn’t seem to realize herself the pain she’s been always bringing Eponine. She made her suffer more than anybody else in spite of herself. But I suppose she’s never realized it. Well, anyway, I’ve always considered Eponine like a very good person who didn’t have the chance to have good parents . So, even as a child, I loved what she was like. And besides, poors were so often treated the way Cosette has been that it’s just sounds kinda normal for those days. And, back then, Eponine and Azelma were just children. All children could be cruel . They’re not an exception. But to give her life for her loved one is truely an exception. That really shows the kind of person who is really Eponine ( without considering her parents): someone with a great and big heart. When she loves someone she’s able to give her live for him. And she even protected Cosette against her father knowing she’s the one Marius loved. She didn’t have to but she did. And that’s what makes her even more exeptionnal in my eyes! Besides, when she was dying she had regrets she’s never been too close to Gavroche. And that’s what stroke me the most. I realized even better that her parents ( most of all her father but her mother too) were responsible of everything. And yes, she’s just the best character ever for me!

  34. Daniel says:

    Ummm… yes, Eponine was implied to be a child prostitute in the novel… When she first speaks to Marius she was sent to deliver a message and prostitute herself. The line that says something like “she looked at the unmade bed with a quiet sureness that chilled the heart”. You honestly think that Thenardier, being as low and villainous as he is wouldn’t sell his daughters’ bodies for a few shillings… They were STARVING and already stealing to make ends meet.

  35. angedemystere says:

    I think the reason Eponine is so appealing to a large number of fans is because most people in general like flawed characters who to some degree redeem themselves in the end. And it is especially heartbreaking when said character meets a tragic end, and it makes us wish that things had turned out differently for him or her. We appreciate a character’s flaws because they make a person realistic and human, but we also savor the hope for their redemption, and their good qualities are even more significant to us.

    I think that despite the physical appearance he allotted her, Hugo wanted to portray Eponine as a very sympathetic character. He had a general sympathy for all poverty-strickened women, including prostitutes. And, like many romantics, he had her redemption come through love, which really is its ultimate form. The saddest part was that her love was not returned, and although we can understand why Marius was not attracted to her (and, in truth, somewhat repulsed by her), we are still upset by it. Well, some more than others, I suppose. ^^,

    Okay, end of philosophical rant.

    • Selene says:

      People seem to not think of this, so i applaud you for saying this. This is what I’m constantly trying to tell people who don’t understand why i like eponine. I like her for her flaws.

  36. Tania says:

    Yes in the book Eponine is described as repulsing but Marius COULD NEVER be repulsed by her in the anime . She’s so beautiful !!! Come on! she’s a thouthand times more beautiful than Cosette here!!!

  37. David says:

    I agree with you. Cossette unfortunately does not seem to be a person in real life. Eponine sounds more realistic than Cossette can ever be. Cossette seems to be like a useless fairy tales princess that needs to be protected 24/7. If Jean dies and she did not meet Marius than she would surely strave on the street, unlike Eponine and Gravoche.

  38. Fanny says:

    Oh, dear!!! I say the same!!! WHY?!!! EPONINE?!!! Eponine’s my favorite character, too.

  39. Elle says:

    Eponine’s Love is the Truest Form.

    Who knew she was capable of such,

    All her life she wants to be the centre of

    everything.

    The abuse and hard living with her family.

    For Eponine, Marius is life and love

    Her only Hope.

    She gave her life for him.

    The greatest sacrifice of a True Lover.

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Though that isn't to say that western taste is perfect either.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, That's part of the reason I think some westernation might be a good thing as from what I seen the Japanese have truly terrible taste in anime. Sales charts from Japan just make me shake my head.
Amagi
God, the preorder anime lists are atricious. The only one that seems to sell acceptable (around 6k) is Mahoyome. Series like Inuyashiki have 80 pre-orders so far, Shuumatsu Shoujo 977. Idol shows sell good of course, including that male/bishounen Idolmaster
AidanAK47
@Anon, I read it but kinda fell out due to it's releases being slow.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Actually if you check the manga recommendations section, you'll see there is a post about it here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yes, it was interesting to follow a story that dealt with a characters homosexuallity that was outside of the yaoi/yuri mould.
Anonymous1620968
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here read Shimanami Tasogare?
Niello
Where are we up to with Inuyashiki?
Lenlo
Well alright then. Episode 9 out of 11 and that happens. Was not expecting that
Lenlo
Ooo something happen this week? Im about to watch it
Kaiser-Eoghan
It feels just as rushed and awkward in the manga.
Amagi
I noticed this too
AidanAK47
Inuyashiki has balls of steel to pull that in this particular episode number.
Nielllo
Finally got around to reading Helck, and it looks like it's going to go into that pile of good-shounen-that-won't-ever-get-animated right alongside Psyren.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Imagine trying to buy the dvds of the show in public.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Gentle remind that the prism ilya movie is out and subbed.
AidanAK47
Still surprised the second and third seasons got dubbed.
AidanAK47
@Angel, I replied to one of your comments before but the rundown is no official word yet but maybe next year.
Angel
Or no? Someone please tell me!!
Angel
Going to happen?
Angel
Is fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub
Amagi
I dislike it when manga bait me into reading due to the first chapter and end up being some very generic stuff afterwards. Nobody stays for B if he started something for A, authours should expect that.
Lenlo
Really, Juuni should stick with the 3D. That fight in ep 9 looked pretty good. 3D is clearly what they are good at
AidanAK47
@Niello, It's not Chatango. It's a plugin for wordpress called Wisechat.
SuperMario
@Niello: yeah, Juuni caught me off guard this week. The production of Juuni is unfortunately shaky, but well, strong writing can save the day
Niello
Btw is this chat still Chatango?
Niello
This week episode of Juini is surprisingly good compared to how the show usually is with its backstory. Although the part where Ox tries to explain to Tiger could definitely use some visual buff.
SuperWooper
in the future*
SuperWooper
Pretty cool that Juuni Taisen had that kind of emotional heft this week, though. Might be one of the 2017 shows I sample the in the future.
SuperWooper
I think the occasional comments with an episode title and nothing more come from people who mistake the shoutbox for a search bar.
SuperMario
@Anon1614688: juuni taisen... made me tearing up this week. Honestly didn't expect that. Damn you, Tiger
Anonymous1614688
juuni taisen
Amagi
Had some complaints regarding Children of Whales but the latest two episodes were pretty good.
Amagi
@Anon: You explained it better than me.
Anonymous1614307
Kaiser: I actually have the exact same opinion of Natsume and Mushishi. Both are excellent, but Natsume just does a great job with a small core cast and a very simple premise
Anonymous1614456
who likes naruto
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mushishi does have good stories, but it was always a manga I'd dip in and out of, on and off for years, never marathoning it, wheras Natsume was easier to read several chapters of in one go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its because Natsume has more pathos.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more than
Natsume weirdly ended up becoming this comfort manga for me with a higher consistency rate .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will state that I hold the terrible opinion that I like Natsume Yujinchou than Mushishi but at the same time completely recognize that Mushishi is probably the more ambitious, better show.
Niello
So it becomes a cycle of "this is an interesting set up" (except that the new Kino isn't even good at that) and then they fucked up or Kino/Shizu fucked them up even more, then move on. Without the emphasis on philosophical nature of the set up they present like in the original Kino, there really isn't that much point to it.
Niello
With the new Kino it's more about messing people up, occassionally observing and hardly ever improving. The anwsers or solutions to the problem they present is never really talked about in a rational way.
SuperMario
@Anon1614318: maybe you should give the old Kino a try. What I don't like most about the new version of Kino is that both Kino and the new guy are sketched as hero. The old Kino manages the tone right as well. There were some really dark tales and most of them thought-provoking. Can't say the same for say...Country of Cooking
Anonymous1614318
I don't know, it might be interesting to actually dig deep into the differences between episodic series with this kind of style to see what works and what doesn't.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's a matter of the chapter they chose to adapt were not really the better ones but the ones where the protagonist is more of an active role. Not totally against that, but it feels like the protagonist is just OP all the time. At least with Mushishi Ginko isn't able to save everyone all the time.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's supposed to be more allegorical, but most of the time the allegory is not really meaningful enough. I thought it would be more along the lines of Mushishi, which is kind of similar in setup, but better in most other ways.
Anonymous1614318
What keeps me sticking around are some of the nice background arts and generally pleasant use of color, but admittedly most of the episodes aren't really engaging in a meaningful way. Most of the time its just Kino/Shizu show up, find out town's gimmick, then save the day. I prefer the episodes where the townspeople are more than just flat background characters.
Anonymous1614318
It's interesting to see how this new Kino season is being received from folks who've already watched the original. This is my first real exposure to Kino, and I kind of like it, but even without watching the original, I share many of the same complaints Aidan and most of the others have.
Amagi
I am also kinda sad he's just some 2* servant in fgo, but his power is special and he's physically weak, so it's understandable.
Amagi
And again, Shakespeare is just great but the character is, sadly, kinda wasted here considering how much screentime he has.
Amagi
@Aidan: Yes. Plus, maybe more characterization or background for some servants. The anime would have that time without Sieg and his romance sub plot.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Those being remove Sieg and more Shakespeare?
Amagi
And man Apocrypha is pretty good but it would be twice as good if it had those two changes Aidan always mentions in the reviews..
Amagi
@Kaiser: I think the male in Kino was a mistake. Having two PoV sounds good, but he's basically just a male Kino, he even looks like her. Someone vastly different would have been way more interesting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd guarantee that sangatsu no lion would be high up, but FINALLY this weekend I'll be catching up.
Niello
@Kaiser, Ugh my phone gitched. What I meant to say was that background was unexpected. Now I see why you're enjoying CotW though.
Niello
@Kaiser, That's unexpected.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoyed how outright surreal Arakawa was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: It bothers me that they're stuffing multiple tales into single episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, excel saga, I wonder what I would think of it now, its been years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I actually respect Aidan's coverage of it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: Yes that edgy villain kid in COTWs was annoying though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I don't care much for the male character that leads some of the episodes in this new adaptation.
@Niello: Its a non-mainstream shoujo that isn't set in a school, moves at a quick enough pace and has some nice background art/chara design, I grew up on shoujo fantasy manga also so theres that.
Amagi
I mean there are parts I like. I enjoyed the first episode, and the part about the country of liars. But many other things annoy me and the last episode was the worst. I also feel like the edgy bomb loli and slapstick Kino don't fit to the rest of the show somehow. Maybe I forgot everything, but the "old" Kino felt like a better character to me somehow, this one is more faithful to the LNs though
Amagi
@Kaiser: I honestly gave up on Kino and I think it's only partly the fault of the new series. I am just so tired of how stupid most of the episodic-characters are unless their are friends of Kino, how everyone gets bent being irredeemable evil for plot's sake and how everything Kino and her friends do gets justified. Maybe I am just too old or boring for this fairy tail like moral bending.
SuperMario
Still have Night is Short review to write... i will get there. I will get there
Anonymous1612237
It's like having potty mouth characters. If you have one, it can be funny and a good comedic relief. If everyone does it, it can come out as mean spirited or trashy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I haven't watched A Bad Idea Gone Wrog, as for now my top priority is to catch up with 2017 anime for the Yearly summary. But I will get on to it when I have some free time
Anonymous1612237
Amagi - Chibi stuff I've seen it mainly work in anime comedies with low budgets like Those Who Hunt Elves, Ranma, Excel Saga, Arakawa Under the Bridge, Nanbaka, etc. I think if you really have to use it in a more serious anime, I think it might work if it was part of one character's gag.
SuperMario
Children of the Whales, along with Juuni Taisen, keep falling out on me. Kino is pretty a hit-or-miss at the moment. I don't mind the last episode's multiple tales though
Niello
Problem about AMB chibi jokes are that they arwn't funny in the first place nor do they have a punch line.
Niello
@Eoghan, Really surprise you put Children of the Whales so high, I'm falling behind on some shows but it is still near the bottom of my list (the absolute bottom remains Kino).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The latest Kino episode was a real slap in the face/insult, really really thought that one segement would carry on for the whole episode and be a redemptive one/getting the series back on form but then it followed it up with crap comic relief segement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: For now yes.
Lenlo
Droppin Mahou Kaiser?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I no longer care what Dia's gender is, no longer I will lie to myself and deem them female.
Kaiser-Eoghan
5. would be juuni taisen
Kaiser-Eoghan
My rankings for the season based on what I am following: 1. Houseki no kuni 2. Children of the whales 3. inuyashiki 4. girls last tour dropping mahou and Kino.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't remember Joseph being all that present from what little I read of the manga.
Amagi
Fear so too. I mean it has a bunch of good ideas and good quality and such, but it feels like it won't be much more than the magical being of the week (or two weeks) and some Elias highjinks inbetween
Kaiser-Eoghan
I still say, I've got the feeling mahou will be wasted potential that won't really go anywhere much.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Did you watch that indie film you recommended yet? Bad idea gone wrong it was called. I just finished it there, budgetary limitations and outside of Matt Jones the acting isn't great, theres a few limp/dead bits too, nonetheless it has its amusing moments here and there to make for an okay comedy that isn't all that essential but amusing enough in moments if your bored.
Amagi
Yeah I think Mahou has some pacing issues. But I also think it would work way better if it was less episodic or semi-episodic.
SuperMario
I normally don't mind the chibi stuff that much but I agree in Mahoutsukai they break the tone and pacing. Serious at one time, fluffy at another...
Amagi
@Vonter: I honestly never like chibi stuff I think. Didn't care back then but nowadays I consider it annoying. One reason is that jokes only work when they aren't pointed out but just happen, sometimes even so casually that you almost miss them. Turning everyone into a chibi for a joke makes it as fun as repeating, explaining or shouting it again (which many series also do)
KTravlos
I have to give it to Altair. It got me reading the manga. The episode this week did skip over a whole manga story, but to be frank it is not too much of a loss. Pacing issues still exist. One thing I noticed was a degrading in animation. They are probably hoarding for the next two episodes which are the major battle.
Anonymous1611511
Just dropping my 2c here: Isn't it too late for the studio to correct such inherent design issue once eps start rolling out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Angel: The dub wasn't all that impressive in the first place however.
Angel
When Will fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub come out?
Vonter
The chibi stuff sadly, is like watching someone make the same mistake over and over again, without acknowledging that thing isn't coming across well. At this point it seems like an intentional choice rather than just cutting corners. Kinda like when an anime has a decent dub but has that one character with a really annoying voice.
Lenlo
Its continued this willful ignorance, this virtual refusal, to actually address the issue. Thing about the chibi is, the first scene with Silver worked. Then it just got overused.
KTravlos
Mahoutsukai continues denying itself. We finally had some tough questions asked, but the show just ignored them in the 2nd half (with generous doses of chibi). That said Elias true form is terrifying.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: If you enjoy The Scent of the Green Papaya and Cyclo, you can also check out his unofficial third film about Vietnam: The Vertical Ray of the Sun, which is about the modern day of Hanoi. It's my favorite film of his, although I know that artistically it can't compare to his earlier films
SuperMario
And I can say the mafia aspect of Cyclo is more like Hong Kong than Vietnam. But, whatever. I like this one well enough
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I particularly love the score in Cyclo. No wonder later on Tran Anh Hung asked Joony Greenwood from Raidoohead to score his films. His score has the same uncomfortable feeling with this one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would have watched an entire story based around that old man in the new Kinos journey episode.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Though while I never found it boring, it did feel it could have had a better narrative.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Cyclo I felt has some reasonable sketched characters and the aesthetic sells the viewer on the environment the characters are living in, Tony Leung was my favourite in it, I also like how some Asian films are able to mix quietness with moments of violence, makes it much more visceral.
SuperWooper
I'd lean towards weirdest thing you've ever seen. It's certainly up there for me.
Masky
...I can't figure out whether Sengoku Jidai with batman is weirdest thing I have ever seen or makes completely perfectly sense and was inevitable it would happen
K-Off
The map design should've been vastly more different, I'd love to hear why they thought it was worth it to keep the same maps as Gaiden. So. Much. Open. Fields.
K-Off
Finally got to playing Fire Emblem Shadow, and 15 hours in I'm already not a fan of the gameplay. The story is vastly superior to Gaiden, but it looks like it missed the point on how to make a good remake. The maps are just as god awful as in Gaiden and for it, (in hard mode) it feels like a game of numbers rather than strategy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I feel drama need not always go for emotions in the audiences but can be effective in a solely cold observational sense and approach.
SuperMario
haha you don't need to spy you know. Like I said Discord chat has been active lately. I find myself more comfortable chatting in there for some reasons.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I spy on the discord chat sometimes
Kaiser-Eoghan
Worried about this Junji itou adaptation thats coming up, hope it isn't one of those zero animation web-short series.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: he still has Flashmob in which he intended to make. Yeah, he started his career quite late but he has had a very successful career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Potentially could be his last film, he is quite old.
SuperMario
Agree that Happy End has many quirkier moments compared to his other works. Still a solid work but I won't rank it amongst his best
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Watching Happy End, you can immediately realize many of Haneke's favorite themes: the voyeur/camera in Benny's Video, Cache; the latent racism like you mentioned, the idea that killing someone you love is better than watching them suffering, the underlying violence in a normal middle class life in most of his works
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Like with code unknown, its approach to latent rascism is far better handled than for example a terrible hollywood oscar bait drama would handle it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I felt though had the film been a bit longer, Huppert and Jones could have gotten more scenes, same with Franz Rogowski's character.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I did however think that the disjointed nature of the earlier parts were both to the advantage and disadvantage of the film. But it delivers a killer of a last act that I loved.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally got around to seeing happy end, I liked the Cache and amour references and how Haneke cheekily managed to insert quirkier moments and even wry ones so seemlessly into the narrative. Fontaine ,Kassovitz and Tringnent had the best scenes, particularly the ones between Fontaine and Tringnent.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Physical, non-verbal communication is a far more valuable way of conveying information I believe and more effective in fiction.
SuperMario
Report on Just Because so far: they took on the three-way romance direction, which I initally ain't fond of. But last episode actually was great with the focus on body gestures and natural dialogues, delivering one of the brst exchange the show has this season. A good watch overall
Lenlo
Sadly, the only anime youll probably get like that will be made outside japan, like Castlevania was, and wouldnt be considered "anime" by most of the community. A shame, cause Castlevania was great.
Lenlo
A classic western would be cool. Like Red Dead the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I am just coming up with fantasizing now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Even a Raymond Chandler style of story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd also love to see a non-scifi western anime get made now or even an east meets west thing with cowboys AND samurai in it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats a good example Vonter I guess but I probably should have been more clear/clarified that what I meant is that I wanted to see more noir anime being made NOW , I want netflix to back one . I mean the kind of thing where everyone is wearing fedoras and trench coats and its 1930/40/50, shadows everywhere or it looks impressionistic.
Vonter
Kaiser-Eoghan - Monster is a very grounded detective like story. The villain is good and intimidating, some moral dilemmas are poignant and despite being animated I remember it having good direction of photography since the story takes place Germany, Prague, and some other places.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've only seen bits of wolf rain many years ago, never bothered with it further after hearing the pacing is terrible and it makes an unsatisfactory ending even less worth waiting for.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, but I mean without science fiction elements.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser"I'd love to see an anime take of film noir."
What do you call Cowboy bebop?
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