Posted by psgels on 15 October 2007 with categories: Les Miserables - Shoujo Cosette


Holy! Flippin’! Heck!!!

Christ, I can’t believe the creators really went SO FAR IN THIS EPISODE!! I can’t believe what happened at the beginning of the episode. Obviously, it involves spoilers. DO NOT READ THIS ENTRY IF YOU HAVE NEITHER SEEN THE EPISODE NOR READ THE BOOK!!! This sentence is there to fill space in the blog aggregators.

Seriously… oh my god. I never expected the creators to actually kill off my favourite character of the entire series off so cruelly. This episode became utterly incredible because of it, but still… Eponine is really gone now… This was by FAR the best episode of the entire series. And with such an excellent series already, that HAS TO SAY SOMETHING.

I absolutely loved how Eponine managed to confess her love in the end at least. Not only was it great that she finally was released of the burden in her heart, but this also made Marius realize what he had done to her. In anime, love triangles are often forced, but the one between Cosette, Eponine and Marius was a mighty fine exception. It really featured perfect build-up and it used this build-up perfectly.

I seriously urge everyone to check out this series, and perhaps get some fansubbing group to sub beyond the fifth episode. With this episode, Les Miserables has really turned into one of the best series of the year, and it really shows the power of 52-episoded series.

And if that wasn’t enough, the upcoming attractions are looking really interesting too: Gavroche will finally meet Cosette again, and Javert has been unmasked as a spy.

(PS: apologies for the delay, but I’ve been really busy for the past days. You might expect more of these delays for the next few months. Still, this episode was SO worth the wait!)

42 Responses

  1. Windspirit says:

    Why the freaking hell doesn’t anybody subb this ??! Looks so great, exactly the type of series i LOVE, and yet, everybody’s too busy watching crap like harems or stupid stereotyped shonen.

  2. Chris says:

    I can’t even find RAWs for this anymore! :( I was wondering when the anime would reach this point and how’d you react to it (did you know at all? It’s a very huge part of the play) the musical version is also very sad at this part but I just want to see this anime version already!

    World Masterpiece Theater anime never dissapoint, I suggest you watch their other shows if you can.

  3. TheWestExit says:

    Why it doesn’t get subbed:

    -It’s a Shoujo series, or a show for little girls. Even though there’s alot of mature subject mature and the characters and plot have a metric bitch ton of development and depth, fansubbers are always reluctant to do historical shows and shoujo shows so combining them doesn’t help.

    -The anime community isn’t well versed in classical literature historically and a show like this demands that there me a quality checker who is extremely knowledgeable in both the time period and the source material. This take more work than most groups are prepared or used to doing. Just look at a series like Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei, the Japanese in that is of a very high level so it requires alot of work to translate it, also it has all those awesome little comments.

    -It’s not very popular. The fansub community is very needy for affection. Fansubbers want their work to be recognized by a group of people. There’s little incentive to sub a series that’ll have a very small, silent base.

    I was looking forward to this alot, I’m a fan of Les Misérables, but oh well. I have to wait ’til it gets licenced and even that’s a very slim possibility.

  4. Steven says:

    DUDE….. i would never watch this series… why?

    because no anime can truely remake this story. IF POSSIBLE, you should take a road trip to NEW YORK, and watch the musical there. Just titled Les Miserables, it is utterly incredible, better than any anime can ever recreate it. i actually have no idea why they would make it into an anime… plus it is unlike no other, the stage is actually a spinning stage, basically a big round disk spinning and it is amazing.

  5. Hhmmm... says:

    I truly want to watch this…seriously people only care for harem/shonen crap or worse kodomo no jikan

    They should give this a chance, I doubt it will even get licenced

  6. Nicholas says:

    Eponine was my favorite character, too. D:

  7. totoum says:

    ” IF POSSIBLE, you should take a road trip to NEW YORK, and watch the musical there. ”
    if not possible because you live on another continent what do you do?

    now ureshii fansubs did the first 3 and then dropped it on july 15th but they posted this:
    “We are still interested in doing this series if any translator wants to do it. Just join our recruits channel (#ureshii-recruits@irc.rizon.net) and ask about it if you are interested. If not, Fantine will remain separated from Cossette, and you don’t want that do you?”
    then formula subs picked it up and posted this did the first 6 but havn’t released anything in nearly 2 months,still,they have this project listed as “active” so they havn’t given up but they’re short on staff “‘ll point this out again, but we are currently looking for a Typesetter and Translation Checker. Thank You”
    Not to mention that acording to the poll on their site,les miserable is the most liked of their projects,so there’s a demand.

    if you can help,i think those 2 groups would certainly welcome you with open arms.

  8. R says:

    What continent are you on?

  9. totoum says:

    europe,and psgels is also in europe.

  10. R says:

    Well, Broadway isn’t the only option; there’s London, and a few places in Europe, although I’m not exactly sure where at the moment and I’d have to look it up.

  11. TheWestExit says:

    Or you could, y’know, read the book.

  12. R says:

    I think that goes without saying.

  13. Tania says:

    It IS really a sad episode!!! I’ve cried a lot!! I could’t help crying. She was the best character ever and didn’t want her to suffer. And I wonder why Cosette has a beautiful life whereas Eponine has to die. IT is NOT FAIR ! I wanted Marius be with her not with Cosette. She doesn’t deserve him , Eponine do. Marius is really an idiot not to choose Eponine . She’s the bravest and also the most beautiful character I’ve ever seen !!! So just why does he prefer Cosette? I’ve loved the character of Eponine from the very beginning, I’ve never preferred Cosette, so I want her to be happy!
    Well, since she had to die according to the book, she’ll definitely remain a heroine. Cosette won’t. She didn’t sacrifice herself for anyone.She just remain hidden in her mansion , safe from any danger. I wish Eponine could live in her beautiful house and have no problems at all with Marius who loves HER.
    But it was really an exceptionnal episode and the best ever even if it was unbearably sad. I just could’t take it anymore! When she recognized the voice of Gavroche or when she talked about Cosette. And that damn Marius could at least to say thanks cause she saved HIS LIFE!!!
    Well, anyway she ‘ll definitely remain alive in my heart and my imagination.

  14. Chris says:

    Oh I was sure a story very similiar to Cosette was out there, an old anime that showed on Mexican TV (and other countries but I viewed it on Mexican televsion) called Candy Candy, it’s said to be the best shoujo of all time according to a Japanese poll and has been dubbed in every language but english. You may want to look into the series because it almost exactly the same as Cosette (both are original but similiar in tone, setting, and characters)

  15. R says:

    Anyone who thinks Eponine is supposed to be pretty needs to read the book as an antidote to their confusion. Her family is desperately poor. She’s a petty thief, and possibly a hooker. Not the first choice of ideal spouses for someone of Marius’s social standing.

  16. Irene says:

    She’s also half-crazy in the book, which might be something of a deterrent. xD

  17. Dookers says:

    I’m pretty sure Eponine’s death wasn’t meant as a testimony to Cosette being a cruel heartless rat, Tania. First of all, back then it was considered improper for a young woman of the upper class/bourgeoisie(sp?) to go out in public by herself, and, at this pint, if she ran off to fight with Marius, Jean would probably think something was wrong with her, and she sems like the type who wouldn’t wanna upset her father in the slightest way. Second of all, I’m not a literary (or historical) scholar, but I see it as Eponine’s death and overall her crappy life (from the time Jean took Cosette away from the Thénardiers) was supposed to convey the message that the poor people in Paris didn’t usually get what/who they wanted/loved/dedicated their purpose in life to, and how little sympathy they got anyways.

    (side note: For some reason or another, I became more attached to Sonozaki Shion from Higurashi as a figure of tragic unrequited love than to Eponine. It’d take a while to explain.)

    But I’m gonna watch this episode to see how they handle Eponine’s death. It’s kinda strange what love does to people, I’ll say.

  18. Tania says:

    Actually I’ve read the book and I know that Eponine is described as an ugly young woman due to the poverty ( Cosette was described the same way when she was little and worked for the Thénardiers )who says curse words and is obviously a petty thief. I know she’s half crazy too (hard not to nocice it ).I have no doubt about it and I don’t need any antidote because I know exactly what it’s talking about. But I said she was really beautiful in the anime, I didn’t mean in the book . Maybe you think Cosette is prettier than Eponine , and you have the right to think it. I just gave my opinion .But you can’t say Eponine isn’t pretty in the anime. I can even prove it. Mabeuf in the 30th episode ( when she watered the flowers for him) said : utsukushi ojosama which means beautiful young woman and at the end I think the woman said kawai( I’m not sure) which means cute. I ‘ve seen lots of anime series but I found that Eponine was the most beautiful ever. Ever since she was little . I know she’s not supposed to be that way but she IS in this serie ( ANIME) , it’s a fact, you must admit that she’s far from being ugly. Even in rags, she remains really pretty. And I wanted to clarify one more thing. I don’t say Cosette is a cruel heartless rat . I just say that she’s not perfect. Nobody is . She makes mistakes too . I don’t blame her cause she hasn’t interfered in the revolution, I know perfectly well that she couldn’t. But according to the book, at the end she’ll leave her “father” who cared for her so much and can’t live without her. That wasn’t a good thing to do. What do you think? it wasn’t very kind of her .
    But that’s not the reason why I prefer Eponine.
    I just like her very much! I don’t know why , maybe because she has such a personality! I just love the way she is . I wanted her to be happy even if I knew that she dies in the book . Maybe I didn’t want to expect such cruelty from the creators. I just couldn’t keep it . Moreover, she’s particularly cute. I think the one who created this anime must have loved this character too.
    She’s not at all a half crazy ugly girl described in the book, that’s a good point. I haven’t nocided any sign of crazyness or ugliness in her. And you ? And I wanted to know if you think that Marius should have been more grateful to her ? Because I do . That’s just a question not an offense.

  19. Tania says:

    Sorry, when I mentioned Mabeuf saying Eponine was beautiful in the episode 30th , it was a mistake. Actually IT IS in the 32nd . When she watered the plants . But I was very tired when I wrote it , it was the night. And I spent the whole day at school and had a test( 5 hours of philosophy!).
    Sorry again.

  20. Sarah says:

    You should watch before posting spoilers, Tania, because psgels hasn’t read the book and doesn’t know what’s going to happen XD

    And I do agree with what you’re saying, but honestly, I feel that the anime-Marius was a lot kinder to Eponine than the Marius in the book. In the book he barely cared she was dying…he was too busy reading Cosette’s letter and thinking about his darling Cosette to care

  21. Broked Foot says:

    We at Delicious Fansubs have always been willing to take this project the full way, but our translator went missing in action shortly after our last release without a word, and lacking a translator there’s not really much that we can do.

  22. R says:

    1) I can think of other women in anime who are definitely prettier. I’m not crazy about all the character designs in this series.

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    2) She doesn’t really leave her father, it’s much more the other way around. He feels uncomfortable in the Gillenormands’ home and doesn’t spend much time there, despite her efforts to convince him. He walks out of her wedding dinner. Plus Marius is uncomfortable with him after that one conversation and pushes him away further.

  23. Irene says:

    SPOILER ALERT!

    Personally, I’m inclined to agree with R. Valjean’s often described as viewing himself as Marius’s rival for Cosette’s affections, and after Cosette is married he doesn’t really see a need to remain any longer. That said, if we’re going to blame anyone for Valjean’s isolation at the end of the book, we should probably look at Marius, who was definitely rather chilly toward him after he learned of Valjean’s past.

  24. Tania says:

    Response to Sarah .
    I agree with what you said too, the anime-Marius is really kinder to Eponine than in the book. He acts much like her friend . In the book, he obviously avoids her even knowing that his happyness is due to her and don’t care about her death. In the anime, he doesn’t want her to die and keep saying ” hold on !”

  25. Tania says:

    Response to R
    Eponine is a petty thief in the book but she IS NOT a hooker. And especially in this serie. Don’t talk about her that way! Her love for Marius is pure. I think that besides Toron , and she was very little by the time, Marius is her first and only love ( and the last one too). If it wasn’t, she would not have died for him. Even in the book, she acts like a child sometimes and I just can’t imagine her to look at other men. Besides, she lives with her parents by the time she meets Marius and her only real company seems to be Azelma. Even if she often has to face the gang of her father ( “the Patrominet”).

    • Selene says:

      She’s not a hooker, persay, but she was involved in prostitution of sorts. She was also the mistress of Montparnasse, which isn’t mentioned in the anime, but is in the book. That’s why Montparnasse is always referring to himself as Thenardier’s son in law. Thoug i can’t remember if thats in the anime either. Though i agree with you. Her love is as pure and as real as cosette’s easily.

  26. R says:

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    Her only love? Um, it’s made pretty clear that she sleeps with Montparnasse, at the very least.

    Another opportunity of laying hands on that “devil’s dandy” must be waited for. Montparnasse had, in fact, encountered Eponine as she stood on the watch under the trees of the boulevard, and had led her off, preferring to play the lover with the daughter rather than the crook with the father. It was well that he did so. He was free. (Slightly paraphrased.)

  27. Tania says:

    If she slept with Montparnasse and loved him too then why did she give her life to save Marius ? Moreover, even if it’s possible in the book SHE WOULD NEVER DO SO IN THE ANIME. Well just look at her! She’s honest in her feelings for Marius and upright. Well, actually I found Montparnasse kind of handsome in this serie , well, maybe she should have fallen in love with him , at least she (maybe) wouldn’t have died but she didn’t fall in love with him. Feelings can’t be explained. Anyway, I don’t agree with you on that point. Eponine is for me a symbol of purity. A fallen angel. And she’s too proud to act that way. She has always been so proud of herself. Try to remember her childhood. So it’s just impossible. It doesn’t fit at all with her character.

    • Selene says:

      Well, she is far from purity. She is kinda like fantine in the way that she was also a prostitute, and only did what she did for money, but despised it at the same time. And she didn’t really have feelings for Montparnasse, but she was his mistress. And she became desperate when she was poor. But this might not be true in the anime, however it was 100% true in the book

  28. Tania says:

    If she slept with Montparnasse and loved him too then why did she give her life to save Marius ? Moreover, even if it’s possible in the book SHE WOULD NEVER DO SO IN THE ANIME. Well just look at her! She’s honest in her feelings for Marius and upright. Well, actually I found Montparnasse kind of handsome in this serie , well, maybe she should have fallen in love with him , at least she (maybe) wouldn’t have died but she didn’t fall in love with him. Feelings can’t be explained. Anyway, I don’t agree with you on that point. Eponine is for me a symbol of purity. A fallen angel. And she’s too proud to act that way. She has always been so proud of herself. Try to remember her childhood. So it’s just impossible. It doesn’t fit at all with her character.

  29. R says:

    Anyway, I don’t agree with you on that point.

    Take it up with Victor Hugo, then. She does indeed sleep with Montparnasse.

  30. Irene says:

    Hugo implies that Eponine sleeps with Montparnasse, not that she loves him. There’s a difference.

    In any case, bookverse!Eponine leads Marius to the barricades because she hopes he’ll die there. She tried to kill him because she knew she couldn’t have him and only saves his life at the end because part of her regrets her actions. She’s petty and childish and emotionally stunted, and a far cry from the idealized gamine you seem to be describing.

    (It’s spelt Patron-Minette, by the way.)

  31. Tania says:

    Alright, I get it. By the way, I know why she said to Marius to go to the barricades ( it wasn’t precised in the anime , only in the book ) but even it is her fault that he happened to be there, it was quite brave from her to get the bullet which was intented for him. Don’t you think ? And even if she slept with Montparnasse it doesn’t really change my opinion about her. Sleeping with Montparnasse doesn’t mean she’s a hooker. Then her love for Marius changed her. True love can really change people’s life. Remember, she used to say curse words before she met Marius! At the end, she reminds me of the little mermaid who would rather die herself than live knowing she’s responsible of his death. At first, she thinks she may be able to kill the prince to save her own life but she realizes that she just can’t do it. There’s something like that in the way she dies. She’s quite unstable in the book, for example when she refuses the money Marius gives her in exchange for leading him to the place Cosette lives in. She just throws it back to him and it falls on the ground. And when she hears Gavroche singing she says : ” Don’t say him I’m here .If you do, he’s going to scold me .” It was indeed a sign of crazyness. But what I’m saying is that she is idealized in the anime. Don’t you think so? I’m quite sure she is! She doen’t speak at all like a half-crazy girl. They made her this way and it is obvious right away. There’s something different if we compare her to her character in the book. What do you think ? I started to watch this serie nearly one year ago and I loved the way she’s described there even if I like very much her character in the book too. I’m not the one who imagines her perfect because they represented her that way in the serie.

  32. angedemystere says:

    Well, from what I’ve seen from the earlier episodes, the anime portrays young Eponine as a spoiled brat (mostly due to the way her parents raised her and treated Cosette), so the creators probably wanted her to seem more sympathetic now that she’s dirt poor and wandering in the streets, so we don’t say, “Ha, she got what she deserved!” The truth is, Eponine has a heart, she’s just lived in a very bad environment all her life. The anime creators probably thought it best to make that more obvious, however, by making her more physically and in other ways appealing.

    By the way, the hooker issue comes from the fact that Thernadier hired out Eponine as a prostitute to bring in some extra money. Sadly, child prostitution was a real problem in those days. But if you were extremely poor, you had to do what you had to do. Morally wrong? Of course, but people sometimes resort to stealing in the same situation. (i.e. Valjean!) Of course, they do not include Eponine’s prositution in the anime. (I don’t even know how much they emphasize it in the book.) Come on, if they didn’t have Fantine become a prostitute . . .

  33. Tania says:

    Yeah, I quite agree with you when you say that Eponine grew up in a very bad environment all her live. First of all , she’s actually never been a brat, she would have remained nice towards Cosette if her mother didn’t interfere in their relationship and didn’t treat Cosette like some kind of a tramp dog. Remember after her mother’s departure, she’s the one who proposed to Cosette to go and play with her and Azelma in their room. But the mother had other projects for this poor child. And children always act like their parents , they would never turn against them ( well, there’re some exeptions like Gavroche but it’s because he wasn’t loved by his mother so it’s not likely ). So they’d rather turn against Cosette. I could never blame Eponine for not being at Cosette’s side. Because I’m sure I would do the same if I had her parents. As a child, my parents were an example for me. Would you rather be at the side of a girl you know practically nothing or at your parents’. It’s an easy answer, don’t you think ? And besides, haven’t you noticed she has always been so kind with everybody exept Cosette . She just can’t stand her and I believe she thinks Cosette steals away every boy she loves. Which is actually true. Cosette doesn’t seem to realize herself the pain she’s been always bringing Eponine. She made her suffer more than anybody else in spite of herself. But I suppose she’s never realized it. Well, anyway, I’ve always considered Eponine like a very good person who didn’t have the chance to have good parents . So, even as a child, I loved what she was like. And besides, poors were so often treated the way Cosette has been that it’s just sounds kinda normal for those days. And, back then, Eponine and Azelma were just children. All children could be cruel . They’re not an exception. But to give her life for her loved one is truely an exception. That really shows the kind of person who is really Eponine ( without considering her parents): someone with a great and big heart. When she loves someone she’s able to give her live for him. And she even protected Cosette against her father knowing she’s the one Marius loved. She didn’t have to but she did. And that’s what makes her even more exeptionnal in my eyes! Besides, when she was dying she had regrets she’s never been too close to Gavroche. And that’s what stroke me the most. I realized even better that her parents ( most of all her father but her mother too) were responsible of everything. And yes, she’s just the best character ever for me!

  34. Daniel says:

    Ummm… yes, Eponine was implied to be a child prostitute in the novel… When she first speaks to Marius she was sent to deliver a message and prostitute herself. The line that says something like “she looked at the unmade bed with a quiet sureness that chilled the heart”. You honestly think that Thenardier, being as low and villainous as he is wouldn’t sell his daughters’ bodies for a few shillings… They were STARVING and already stealing to make ends meet.

  35. angedemystere says:

    I think the reason Eponine is so appealing to a large number of fans is because most people in general like flawed characters who to some degree redeem themselves in the end. And it is especially heartbreaking when said character meets a tragic end, and it makes us wish that things had turned out differently for him or her. We appreciate a character’s flaws because they make a person realistic and human, but we also savor the hope for their redemption, and their good qualities are even more significant to us.

    I think that despite the physical appearance he allotted her, Hugo wanted to portray Eponine as a very sympathetic character. He had a general sympathy for all poverty-strickened women, including prostitutes. And, like many romantics, he had her redemption come through love, which really is its ultimate form. The saddest part was that her love was not returned, and although we can understand why Marius was not attracted to her (and, in truth, somewhat repulsed by her), we are still upset by it. Well, some more than others, I suppose. ^^,

    Okay, end of philosophical rant.

    • Selene says:

      People seem to not think of this, so i applaud you for saying this. This is what I’m constantly trying to tell people who don’t understand why i like eponine. I like her for her flaws.

  36. Tania says:

    Yes in the book Eponine is described as repulsing but Marius COULD NEVER be repulsed by her in the anime . She’s so beautiful !!! Come on! she’s a thouthand times more beautiful than Cosette here!!!

  37. David says:

    I agree with you. Cossette unfortunately does not seem to be a person in real life. Eponine sounds more realistic than Cossette can ever be. Cossette seems to be like a useless fairy tales princess that needs to be protected 24/7. If Jean dies and she did not meet Marius than she would surely strave on the street, unlike Eponine and Gravoche.

  38. Fanny says:

    Oh, dear!!! I say the same!!! WHY?!!! EPONINE?!!! Eponine’s my favorite character, too.

  39. Elle says:

    Eponine’s Love is the Truest Form.

    Who knew she was capable of such,

    All her life she wants to be the centre of

    everything.

    The abuse and hard living with her family.

    For Eponine, Marius is life and love

    Her only Hope.

    She gave her life for him.

    The greatest sacrifice of a True Lover.

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Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
Anonymous1829213
*Shimanami
Anonymous1829213
And in regards to the celebrities themselves acting flamboyant or playing into stereotypes, why do you think those are the ones who are famous? They are allowed to be, because they paint a comical picture that is more easily accepted by the public. This is why Hourou Musuko and manga like Shiranami Tasogare/My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness are so amazing by painting people as actual humans
Kaiser-Eoghan
There ARE good shoujo-ai manga of course, girlfriends, aoi hana and yaoi like haru wo deiteita.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@CoolerAnon: I notice that bisexuality isn't much addressed in these things , the coming out thing doesn't often come into it.
Anonymous1829213
@Other Anon: You might add that a lot of those shows also perpetuate some pretty extreme stereotypes and male light of other of serious issues (i.e. the perception others have of LGBT people and that LGBT people have towards themselves, the experience of coming out, etc. etc.)
Kaiser-Eoghan
By lol coincidence he seems to have also voiced a pokemon character too.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*re-incarnation of, not evolved
Kaiser-Eoghan
Totally based, hilarious guy to, once claimed jokingly in an interview he was the evolved form of pikachu.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: There is a view of the transvestite as a "silly joke character" even in live action media there thats connected to homosexuallity but I'd say in most cases the person themselves is into it, Akihiro Miwa, famous Japanese gay actor played up that flamboyant drag act since the 60s.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: That is well known to me. Also its seen as anti-conform and I heard that the teachers don't know what to do when people are bullied over it, some of them think its down to mental illness.
Anonymous1829154
How japanese media portray lgbtq issues is a problem to this day. Sure shoujo, gender bender, and yaoi genres are mainstream, but at the end of the day people are expected to eventually "grow out of it" and find heterosexual partners in the end. Pretty patronizing
SuperMario
Oh shit, I didn't realize I put Wandering Children instead of Wandering Son in the title. Thanks for pointing that out Kaiser
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Shuu, mai precious lil' Babbu *hugs*
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol Okadas best anime work cause she didn't really write it lol
SuperMario
I will read on the manga to see how these kids growing up. Boy do i love this cast
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose thats fair enough.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah, I know I stretched that image a bit but for some reasons I was goddamn hard to find an image for Wandering Son that I liked. Will make a slideshow later today to see if it looks better
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah I call them by their physical gender because at that stage, they haven't come out yet, right? If I remember correctly, Shuu still regards himself as "boku" rather than "watashi"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I guess this amuses me mostly because theres a jokey line later on in the manga where the girl with shu says "Ha, guess this makes me a lesbian"
Kaiser-Eoghan
There has been some theory/suggestion that Doi is attracted to shuu seeing shuu's femininty, seeing shuu as a woman .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Later in the manga Takatsuki stops having these feelings toward masculinity, which is addressing adolescent confusion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry about this really hope I don't come off as trying to start anything/an arguement/coming off as an asshole here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats really interesting about hourou musuko is that in addition to Takako Shimura being a Lesbian , by choosing a mtf character as the protaganist and with shuu's relationship with a biological woman later in the manga, she is dealing with an even more interesting issue of whats called by Lesbians as Trans-lesbianism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Transexual, mtf or ftm are probably the more accurate words to use as transgender also includes transvestite which is a different thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its a very good review though, you don't have to change anything I'm probably being overly anal about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was wandering Children chosen instead of wandering son to avoid suggesting pronouns in the title? But then the text of the review uses shuus physical rather than psychological gender. I'm not preaching or asking for changes or complaining, I just found this somewhat contradictory.
AidanAK47
Oh Tomogui Kyoushitsu? That is a weird death game manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Checks manga cover* Goes in expecting bondage manga *its a cannibalism horror manga instead*
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably just me, but I feel the top two pictures should have a gap between them.
AidanAK47
I would recommend replacing the top image of wandering son. Cause you killed the quality of it by stretching it. Never stretch an image.
Lenlo
Id recommend some kind of slideshow or something Mario. For me, its a big sudden blob of images. But thats just me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't deny a single criticism of the Junji Ito adaptation, and yet despite it all it works for me , I forgive it because the imagination goes such a long way with me, I don't even mind that some of them aren't fully developed either, don't need things to be too tidy or explain everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Eh, Maverick was a fairly rubbish, thrown in villain but I liked Lunatics backstory how it linked in with the twist his father was that big hero guy mentioned at the start who ended up becoming a washed up mess.
SuperMario
And I won't take "No, you don't need these pics at all" for an answer
SuperMario
Guys, should I put the 2 arts back-to-back at the begin of the post like this, or should I use slideshow?
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: 91 Days was not too bad.
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: Thanks for those two historical manga's head-up.
Anonymous1828434
Akumestu soo satisfying to read
Anonymous1828321
Thank you
Lenlo
A shame. Kokkoku had the first truly dull episode this week. Suppose one had to come eventually, but this one was mostly an info dump.
AidanAK47
Like lightning, I strike. Junji Ito is basically interesting ideas with deeply flawed execution. It's not scary, doesn't really capture Ito's style and the animation is bare bones. While the stories themselves can have there interesting points, they are often not fleshed out enough. Honestly I am getting rather bored with it.
Lenlo
Holy bejesus Aidan. Nice triple post. :P

So overall how is Junji Ito? From what ive read so far, it seems pretty hit or miss on the horror/gore front. Failing to live up to the manga. I havnt read it though, so im curious what ya think
AidanAK47
Akumetsu?
Anonymous1828142
Wearing a mask
Anonymous1828142
What was the name of the manga where the main character is some superhuman high school student who goes around fighting Japanese politicians
Lenlo
On a side note, I should really start Violet Evergarden at some point...
Lenlo
"Anime is dying" is just a meme that gets thrown around because of Miyazaki.
Lenlo
Maybe. I dont think average score per year is a good metric though, as the cash ins are increasing, but I doubt the passion projects are decreasing. For instance we had /alot/ of duds this year, but people only really remember/care about the good ones of which there was a fair number. It wasnt a bad year for decent/good anime.
AidanAK47
Well yeah, but they didn't have as many Animation studios back then as we do right now. So it's not so much that we lost artistic merit but rather the number of studios cashing in on popular trends for a quick buck have increased. Even then, I am willing to put money on there being just as much harem anime in yesteryear as we have cute girls shows in present.
Lenlo
Perhaps, but I would argue those were on smaller scales, and even then, thats not so different from Western animation or movies. Just look at Warner Bros and their DC push after the success of Marvel. Every industry has those who chase successful trends, yet they arnt failing
AidanAK47
@lenlo, the thing is though that before Moe crap there was eva copy crap and before eva copy crap you had space opera crap and before space opera crap you had hyperviolet OVA crap. The industry has always tried to cash in on a popular trend.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel people went apeshit over, say highschool of the dead because they never saw a bunch of old B/exploitation films, thus that show was never special to me and even failed at an imitation of such.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think people getting to excited for it being unique to a single medium or for, its setting themselve up for disappointment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I just think its incredibly limited thinking to base it all on just ONE medium, you CAN hold up anime to film when anaylzing anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why should 91 days get a free pass just because its an anime about gangsters? Go watch a film about it instead which theres probably many of, joker game fail you as the mature spy thriller it ended up not being, who cares, Tinker tailor soldier spy exists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I dislike this "Its unique for an anime/manga to do this, so instantly lets latch on to it, despite fact that same something is already extremely prevalent in other mediums "
Kaiser-Eoghan
Case in point 91 days and Joker game "It has adults, lets pre-rejoice before the show even came out"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel though because of the level of dissatisfaction with said moe shows that people are going to leap far too quickly on anything just slightly different, getting their hopes up too high and end up feeling let down.
Lenlo
That, or it all comes crashing down around our ears. With stuff like Houseki no Kuni and Made in Abyss from last year however, I think its going to be ok. We are just getting inundated with crap right now.
Lenlo
I do think that some of the artistic part of it has been lost, its gotten diluted in the never ending river of Moe crap. But that doesnt mean its gone. Just harder to find. Eventually all the random moe shows no one cares about will fail and stop getting made. But the anime audience will still be around, to enjoy the better stuff thats left.
Lenlo
Same thing happened in the mid/late 90's and early 00's to American cartoons.
Lenlo
Eh, I dont think anime is dying. Changing no doubt. Its going through a rough growth stage right now. It has a bigger audience than ever and people are trying to cash in on that with lots of shows that are basically the same
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Tank you and damn you for posting screencap of loli-tachibana, I now have cuteness overload a diabeetus =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I realize thats a very minor detail to focus on though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I can really really get into a history manga if the art is top quality, the costume designs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the historical thing, I have a massive I repeat massive thing for full body medieval armoured characters hacking the shit into things or just the armour in general , especially templar armour designs. I also have an little obsession with male aristocratic army uniforms from the Prussian era and world war 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That recent Urasawa manga Travlos mentioned is ending also
@Mario: We might get a complete adaptation of after the rain, the manga is ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More historical manga I found, haven't read the second one however, I didn't hear those two mentioned on here either before.
Kaiser-Eoghan
[link src="http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hawkwood
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Ad-Astra-Scipio-to-Hannibal"]
AidanAK47
@Anon, yes clearly you know better than everyone else on the planet despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up you claims. Thank you nameless Stranger, we owe you a debt for telling us the same thing we hear every year. Let me congratulate you by kicking you out the door.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can generally come up with an opinion for what I follow/watch/read , but I don't really have one on kokkuu.
KTravlos
Well we watched the first episode of Kokkuku. Interesting. The ED theme is quite the fanservice.
SuperMario
@Ktravlos: If your like to check out some other shows this season then I'd definitely recommend After the Rain.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: at least Kino is thought-provoking. I can't say the same for Violet Evergarden. In fact I remain skeptical with VE
KTravlos
I am quite enjoying both Violet Evergarden and Mahoutsukai. Violet gives me similar vibes to the first Kio series, though obviously Kino was a better series.
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the bad taste thing, I could easily say Mahouka or sword art are terrible, but back when I watched and loved code geass people where probably bashing it as overhyped shit in the same way people like to do with sword art/mahouka now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I sure years ago I would have been all over violet evergarden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
For example most anime/manga melodrama has lost its effect on me, I hate Clannad and Kanon now and I won't watch the new code geass season because I want to crop it and death note both up to a teenage error and mistake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And in some cases it only takes five or so years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If not that, it’s the show no one gave a shit about that you loved or it’s a recent gem.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And it hit me, the stuff you often end up loving, becoming a measure of your true taste, in my case at least are the re-discoveries, the show you HATED or didn’t get the first time round, maybe you watched it again soon after or years later, but then it does something for you that tops anything you watched in your early days.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Then I remember theres a huge amount of big shounens I never cared for and popular writers that I never liked or if I did found somewhat overated.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Given that I’m in my thirties and have been watching anime, reading manga since I was 11, that’s led to a very very large re-watch list, something things I will NEVER get the time to go back to re-assess , for all I know they could actually be terrible series. Then there’s when I DO go back on shows and let’s face it most DON’T hold up (of course its good when they do hold up).
Kaiser-Eoghan
This has been on my back/mind for a bit now, to where I’m actually somewhat confused by this “tastes” thing in relation to myself.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Out of nowhere comment don't you think? Besides it ain't that I have perfect taste. It's just that my taste is the only one that matters.
Anonymous1819624
@Aidan you don't need to keep pretending you have perfect taste in anime. we are all aware your taste is often questionable, as all of ours are at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its kind of a pity because there were moments where I saw potential in it and thought maybe this would be some kind of exception.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But to more calmly review this, I do think its possible to present topics like this, though in a more accessible way, I think even someone more versed in this would be bothered by this presentation, in addition to this manga never flowing properly, the dialogue just feels it was ripped directly from an article or book.
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