Posted by psgels on 18 November 2007 with categories: Les Miserables - Shoujo Cosette


Okay, I don’t care about the cheesy parts. This episode was absolutely magnificent! Just when I thought that this series had passed its best part, it comes and delivers such an incredibly awesome episode. Obviously, spoilers are going to follow.

If this was a regular anime, this would be about the time where the adults step back and let the youngsters take over. In this episode, it’s the ENTIRE OPPOSITE, as it features the final epic conflict between Jean and Javert, and the younger members of the cast take a step back and only get a few small minutes of airtime. At the end of the previous episode, Jean had a badly wounded Marius with him, and indeed, Jean finally stops running away and agrees to go with Javert if he brings Marius to a hospital.

We then switch to Javert’s carriage, where I absolutely loved the conversation Jean and Javert had, and to make things even better, Jean explains what exactly made him change so much. It turns out that the words of the bishop brought him in a huge confusion, and he lived a miserable life of a drifter at that point. Then he got accidentally mistaken for a thief, and scared a child away because of it, and that’s what made him see the light.

Javert finally has this moment when he realizes that Jean still has Fantine’s last wishes in his mind, after all these nine years. Marius is dropped off at the hospital, and Javert leaves Jean behind when the latter wants to say his final goodbye to Cosette! Later, when Javert realizes what exactly he had done, he really sees the light. Literally and figuratively, and I adored the amount of depth that he got with his little monologue.

Immediate changes in personality are often hard to do, and they often feel forced, but for me, this episode was awesome, both for Jean and Javert and more than half of the scenes had me crying at the screen. I’m not sure whether it was done this way in the book, but one way or the other, this episode was outstanding.

And right now, I’m wondering what the creators have been planning for the final six episodes. Will it be one long aftermath, or will Thenardier return one final time? The latter would be awesome.

33 Responses

  1. angedemystere says:

    Wait . . . exactly HOW did this episode end?

  2. psgels psgels says:

    The episode ended with Javert, letting Jean go and telling his colleagues that Jean died.

  3. Irene says:

    …no.

    NO. NO, NO, NO, NO. JUST. NO.

    I…

    …and here I thought that letting Gavroche survive was the worst thing they could’ve done. I…just…

    angedemystere, if you value your sanity and your grasp of canon, for heaven’s sake don’t watch this episode. It will only end in tears. I don’t know who that man was who “saw the light” at the end of this episode, but he wasn’t Javert.

    I…I’ll write more when I’m more coherent. Right now I’m going to go console myself with Philip Quast.

    Singing “Javert’s Suicide.”

    Repeatedly.

    …aaaaaaaaaargh.

  4. R says:

    Yep, I predicted this was going to happen. Oh well.

  5. Irene says:

    I stand corrected, R.

    *crawls into a corner and rocks back and forth, whimpering*

  6. psgels psgels says:

    I somehow suspected that with this episode, the creators would divert from the novel somehow. Ironically, the moment where Javert saw “the light” was the only part that really felt out of place, now that I’m thinking back. It’s a shame, if there was anything that would have made this episode even better it would have been the suicide of Javert.

    But then again, this remains a children’s anime, unfortunately. I can understand how a suicide can be a bit too much for the younger viewers, compared to a regular murder.

  7. Irene says:

    This is why I was pretty dubious when I first heard about Shoujo Cosette. Les Mis isn’t children’s material. It’s gritty and realistic and not at all fluffy (unless you count the bits with Marius and Cosette in), and to cut any of that out would be to do the original work a grave injustice.

    It isn’t in Javert’s nature to “see the light” and simply walk away – and that’s the understatement of the year. Mizzies have slightly different views on why, exactly, Javert commits suicide, but I think all of us agree that the last thing he’d do is survive that confrontation with himself.

  8. angedemystere says:

    You mean . . . he just walked away, and THAT’S IT?!

    WHAT THE HELL?!?!

    If they just leave it at that without some kind of explanatory follow-up, I’m going to scream. Oh, dear Lord . . .

  9. Irene says:

    What irritates me most is that he spent half his bloody monologue staring meaningfully at the Seine, as if to get our hopes up that he’d actually jump. That’s sadistic, that is.

  10. GuruLazer says:

    You have to be kidding me… I’ve waiting the whole series for the ‘off the rails’ moment, and now…! *goes off on a Quast rant*

  11. GuruLazer says:

    I don’t speak any Japanese so don’t know what was said in this episode, but do you think it’s maybe possible that after going to the police post the story will continue as normal? Maybe?! *hopes die*

  12. Tania says:

    I don’t like the way this serie keeps on . Actually I HATE it !!! First, everything showed isn’t written in the book , I thought since Mabeuf and Eponine had died ( a huge sacrifice! ), that’s because japoneese anime always follow historical facts so they just can’t do otherwise. Like Versailles no bara of Riyoko Ikeda for exemple, have you seen this one? Well, nearly everyone dies in this one and Mary-Antoinnette and the king don’t survive due to a miracle! It a great anime! A manga – anime isn’t especially for children , everyone knows it . Actually they’re more for adults or teenagers. Because some are even forbidden till 18 like Elfen Lied. So it can’t be an excuse to ruin everything, there has to be something else, I HOPE SO!!! And besides ,les miserables isn’t a children’s novel and I’m sure they know it. So it’s not supposed to be a chidren’s show because they wouldn’t understand anything. Well, let’s get down to the serie, the fact Gavroche and even Javert survive, THAT’S JUST UNFORGIVABLE!!! It really is!!! I could have forgiven them if Eponine had survived as well! She’s the only one whom I really wanted to see alive at the end and find happiness even if I knew that’s not in the novel. But I wanted that so much !!!But why did she have to die while almost all the others who are also supposed to die will live happily ever after. It not a disney movie, come on! But it really looks like all the characters are going to form a big family. It looks like Gavroche is going to live with Cosette like if she were his mother or something! Valjean is going to look after them! Now I’m sure no one else would die and the serie would keep on making mistake after mistake for children’s sake. Well,then why do they have to show all this blood in the 41st episode. Till then it was extraordinary work but the end is just a big disappointment! They almost wasted everything. How could they do that? I keep telling myself that something happened between the 41st and the 42nd episode. Maybe a change in the team. But I still cannot understand!
    However,I’ll watch it till the very end, I have no more hopes but it will be so funny to see how they’ll manage to conclude because there’re only six episodes left! They should hurry!

  13. psgels psgels says:

    Tania: the thing is that most anime (including Elfen Lied) air after midnight, when all of the children are already asleep. Les Miserables airs at 7:30, where most children are able to see it, just before they head to bed. I’m not sure if you’ve seen other World-Masterpiece Theatre-series, but I can imagine how they’d deal with the same mature themes, put into a children’s context. Indeed, they won’t understand everything, but it’s series like these that will make an impression on them.

    Also, from the perspective of someone who hasn’t read the book, I don’t really things that the changes that have been made ruined it. You can read above how much I enjoyed this episode, and at most it felt a bit cheesy when Javert “saw the light”. I’m not sure about the others, but I’m not going to let these small details ruin such a magnificent anime.

  14. Tania says:

    Well, you have a point. If I hadn’t read the book , I would certainly liked this one . And yes , it’s true that some things are well done . But it’s hard for me to accept that a character that I loved more than all others has passed away. Try to understand my point! Well despite that thing, I find it’s a good episode , really. But don’t you think that if Gavroche and Javert survived it would be even better if Mabeuf and Eponine survived as well, don’t you think ? Well, I know that sometimes I really get attached to some characters so I can’t have an objective point of you. But you’re right! The way Javert has finally seen the light is remarkable! After all these years of searching Jean. And I liked the way he managed to understand Jean somehow and to give up. When Jean comes back to the carriage, Javert is gone. That was a good point. And I liked the way Cosette sang the song to Gavroche, the one she sang when they were children. I’m glad they managed to see one another and they’re finally together now. Well when I try to pull the book aside and to forget the way Eponine died , I think it is a good episode. So I actually agree with you on that point.

  15. psgels psgels says:

    Well, I can see your point, yeah. It would have been great if both Maboef and Eponine had a bit more airtime as well, instead of getting killed off so early, because their characters were just too awesome at times. But yet, I think that their deaths would have been more necessary to show than the one of Gavroche and Javert (do note that I’m saying this without knowing how both the book and anime will end).

    Because the characters we knew and loved through the series died so early, we get shown the cold and hard reality of the revolution, and Les Amis are basically engaging in something that can quite easily kill them. Compare this with a similar anime that refuses to kill off its characters: there’s no sense of tension because well, the characters won’t die anyway, so why should we bother to care for them? Of course, I say this without knowing what kinds of effects the deaths of Gavroche and Javert had in the book. Were there people who cared about them? Did their deaths influence the people around them in any way?

  16. Tania says:

    psgels : Yeah, I’ve come to realize that what you’ve said was true. So I’ll just try to enjoy watching it. I suppose I could. And yes despite everything, it is a magnificent anime! You’re absolutely right! And I’m sorry I haven’t put myself in your place before writting. Because I quite agree with everything you said. Even if I’d rather they followed the book. But it’s in this anime that I found the character that I loved the most. And it remains my favorite show even if I don’t agree with everything that occurs in the end due to my reading. So I wanted you to know that I’ve read your comment above and practically agreed with everything. It just that when you’ve read the book, it’s hard to accept the way the anime took.

  17. Tania says:

    psgels : Well I don’t remember just everything but I would say that Gavroche hadn’t much people who cared about him. He was a street boy who was quite rejected from his family, his mother hated boys and contrary to the anime , he hadn’t known Cosette because he was just a baby when she was with the Thénardier and they had never become friends and hadn’t Chouchou to support them. So it’s much more sad for them both. I don’t remember anyone who would cared that much about Gavroche and certainly not Cosette. But his death is important in the book and quite a symbol of Revolution and people protest against starvation and poverty. So he fought for what he thought was right. And Javert is a determined and obsessed by the law man who would never accept the fact people could change and that’s what important in his death. I don’t how to put it. But to accept that would ruin all the concepts he lived for. He would rather die than admit Valjean’s change. He’s a cold man who fallows the law without taking into account his feelings or his heart. I wondered if he even had one . So, this change in his personnality even if it’s interesting in the anime could never have been possible the book. Even if both characters haven’t had friends ( or at least I don’t remember them to have some ) , I would say their deaths are quite as important in the book and I would say even more important because they’re symbols especially Gavroche. But you’re totally right! Mabeuf and Eponine’s deaths may be more important than the other too. Because those two characters were exeptionnal and I don’t know for you but when Eponine died my heart broke apart. I kept telling ” please don’t die! I don’t want you to die ! I care for you so much!” Maybe it sounds stupid but her death seemed so real! I even invented something about her. She survives because Mont Parnasse saved her. And I just kept telling myself it’s a character and not someone real but it didn’t help . I don’t remember to ever have felt this way while I was watching an anime. And I cried when Mabeuf died . That must be it . I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have cried for Javert but even if I never liked Gavroche as much as I liked Eponine , I liked this character too so I would certainly be sad . It’s not like if I wanted him to die. But Gavroche’s death is important in the book, that’s for sure.

  18. Tania says:

    psgels : Well I don’t remember just everything but I would say that Gavroche hadn’t much people who cared about him. He was a street boy who was quite rejected from his family, his mother hated boys and contrary to the anime , he hadn’t known Cosette because he was just a baby when she was with the Thénardier and they had never become friends and hadn’t Chouchou to support them. So it’s much more sad for them both. I don’t remember anyone who would cared that much about Gavroche and certainly not Cosette. But his death is important in the book and quite a symbol of Revolution and people protest against starvation and poverty. So he fought for what he thought was right. And Javert is a determined and obsessed by the law man who would never accept the fact people could change and that’s what important in his death. I don’t how to put it. But to accept that would ruin all the concepts he lived for. He would rather die than admit Valjean’s change. He’s a cold man who fallows the law without taking into account his feelings or his heart. I wondered if he even had one . So, this change in his personnality even if it’s interesting in the anime could never have been possible the book. Even if both characters haven’t had friends ( or at least I don’t remember them to have some ) , I would say their deaths are quite as important in the book and I would say even more important because they’re symbols especially Gavroche. But you’re totally right! Mabeuf and Eponine’s deaths may be more important than the other too. Because those two characters were exeptionnal and I don’t know for you but when Eponine died my heart broke apart. I kept telling ” please don’t die! I don’t want you to die ! I care for you so much!” Maybe it sounds stupid but her death seemed so real! I even invented something about her. She survives because Mont Parnasse saved her. And I just kept telling myself it’s a character and not someone real but it didn’t help . I don’t remember to ever have felt this way while I was watching an anime. And I cried when Mabeuf died . That must be it . I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have cried for Javert but even if I never liked Gavroche as much as I liked Eponine , I liked this character too so I would certainly be sad . It’s not like if I wanted him to die. But Gavroche’s death is important in the book, that’s for sure.

  19. angedemystere says:

    I think you are very right, Tania, in that Javert and Gavroche’s deaths, although not the type to make you cry (well, okay, they’re two of my favorite characters, so I probably would), they are strongly symbolic of the themes that Hugo was conveying through his novel: innocence and grace. What is really ironic about Gavroche’s death is that when he dies, he’s laughing. I forget exactly what this signifies, something about how even when innocence is destroyed, it gets the last laugh on this world of pain and suffering. I don’t know. As for Javert, his suicide is essentially the antithesis of Valjean’s reaction to the bishop’s act of mercy. Rather than give in to the power of kindness and forgiveness, Javert rejects Valjean’s gift of grace; he doesn’t know how to handle it. Although I must say, I think Hugo had it in for Javert from the start. He really did not like the police force and was using Javert as his allegorical representitive for this collective body. However, due to his (and I am using someone else’s words, can’t exactly remember whose) “great talent for characterization,” he ended up making Javert an intriguing character and not quite the cold-hearted, one-sided villain we initially are led to believe. And I suppose Hugo didn’t want to make the police force seem purely evil, just very insensitive to the sufferings of the poor and disadvantaged.

    All in all, though the concept of Javert not killing himself is extremely shocking, I am not quite ready to pass judgment on this series. The questions that are most important right now are: What is going to happen to Gavroche and Javert? Will we actually see Javert again, or is he gone for good? Will Gavroche stay with Marius and Cosette? Will he be reunited with his “boys”? Will he return to his former life as a street urchin? These are going to be crucial issues that I hope the creators will be able to resolve adequately. I’m keeping my fingers crossed . . .

  20. Irene says:

    And Javert is a determined and obsessed by the law man who would never accept the fact people could change and that’s what important in his death. I don’t how to put it. But to accept that would ruin all the concepts he lived for. He would rather die than admit Valjean’s change. He’s a cold man who fallows the law without taking into account his feelings or his heart. I wondered if he even had one.

    I beg to differ on this matter. Javert doesn’t kill himself because he can’t accept that Valjean has changed. Hugo himself says that Javert understands this, though he doesn’t come to that decision without a struggle. Javert kills himself because he realizes that he couldn’t possibly turn Valjean in – not after he’s come to realize all that Valjean has done – but, on the other hand, his moral code won’t allow him to simply let an escaped convict go free. For the first time, he’s confronted with a situation where doing what is right by the law would, in fact, be morally wrong. Simply rejecting the law is no easy matter for Javert; after all, these are the rules by which he’s lived for fifty years. Like angedemystere said, he can’t handle that – so he decides to remove himself from the problem.

    There’s another explanation for Javert’s suicide which I think is almost as valid – that he both accepts that Valjean has changed, and that the right thing to do is to let Valjean go. But, looking back on his past, he has to wonder how many other lives he’s ruined as a result of his misguided efforts to maintain order. Which isn’t to say that Javert’s an incompetent policeman in the slightest – quite the reverse, in fact, as intelligent, honest men are hard to come by in any profession – but he must have made a few mistakes of this caliber before. Fantine’s case, for example, comes to mind. We know from his behavior in M-sur-M that he’s as hard on himself as he is on everyone else – just look at his attempt to resign after he “mistakenly” suspects that Madeleine is Valjean – and, in his mind, that can’t go unpunished. But “How to resign from God?” he wonders, and he resigns from his post as inspector the only way he knows how.

    Either way you look at it, Javert doesn’t kill himself because he’s cold and heartless. Javert isn’t even cold and heartless in the book. Like angedemystere said, I’m sure Hugo might’ve meant him to be, but Hugo was simply too good a writer for that, and his “great talent for characterization” (was it AmZ who said that? or Sythar? I can’t quite recall either xD) transformed Javert into the snarky, talented man we see in the book. There’s the Javert Hugo tells us about, and then there’s the one Hugo shows, and frankly the one Hugo shows – which I’m far more inclined to accept as the “real” Javert – is anything but cold.

  21. angedemystere says:

    Ah, a fanfiction colleague! Yeah, I kinda thought it was one of those two authors. Was it Synthar who called them Poignant!Javert and True!Javert? I’ll have to check. You have hit the nail on the head, Irene. It is true that he tries to leave emotion outside his role as policeman, but it’s not because he’s cold-hearted, it’s because he believes that’s the best way to carry out his duty. Now, I know this is a weird place to mention it, but there’s this story called “Vendredi Bizarre” on fanfiction.net where Valjean and Javert switch bodies. Total crack fic, but surprisingly useful in showing how compassion and forgiveness can be a problem in law enforcement. At one point, Valjean (in Javert’s body) tries to arrest the Patron-Minette and fails miserably. XD It’s like they say, “Truer things have been said in jest.”

    Anyway, the reason Javert is my favorite character is that even though he appears to be one-dimensional, he’s actually a very complex character. There’s so much we don’t know about him and what it was in his past that made him the way he is. He’s not a hypocrite, either, which is why I’m worried that the creators will ruin Javert’s character in this anime by having him let Valjean go and be totally okay with it. If he’s not going to kill himself, they should AT LEAST have him resign from the force.

    I actually had the cute but incredibly unlikely and completely uncanon idea of Javert adopting Gavroche and his “boys,” making a sort of parallel with Valjean and Cosette. This would also resolve the problem of what will happen to these gamins once Gavroche recovers. Completely impossible, but so cute to think about.

  22. Tania says:

    angedemystere and Irene : Yes , I absolutely agree with you! By the way, when I mentioned concepts Javert lived for, what I meant was precisely his duty to the law and by ” cold ” I meant he blindly followed the law like you said for Fantine’s case ( for exemple ) without considering disadvantaged people. So by cold I didn’t meant bad. Actually, I don’t think we could ever say that one character is bad in the book. Life hasn’t been easy for all of them but they’re not bad themselves. Life made them what they are.

  23. Tania says:

    psgels , I wanted to thank you again for the blog you have created. It’s so great! Thanks to you I discovered anime I didn’t even heard of before , the best ones. So thanks again.
    By the way, I watched this episode again and I started to think it’s a really good one.

  24. Tania says:

    psgels , I wanted to thank you again for the blog you have created. It’s so great! Thanks to you I discovered anime I didn’t even heard of before , the best ones. So thanks again.
    By the way, I watched this episode again and I started to think it’s a really good one.

  25. angedemystere says:

    Actually, I don’t think we could ever say that one character is bad in the book. Life hasn’t been easy for all of them but they’re not bad themselves.

    Well, except Thenardier. ^^, I think he’s as close to “villain” as anyone gets in this book. But that doesn’t mean he’s not enjoyable to watch. I put Madame Thenardier as second-most villainous to her hubby because she genuinely loves her daughters. Thenardier’s motives are mostly self-centered (moreso later on when his family is dirt poor). So, yeah, there’s the whole nature vs. nurture issue going on there – to what degree can we blame people’s wickedness (strong word, I know, but sounds better than “badness”) on their personality, or their environment? No, no one is 100% evil, just as in real life, but there are certainly people who tend to lean to the dark side rather than the light.

    Well, I finally saw the trailer for the next episode. Is it just me, or was Javert’s name mentioned, like, three times? At least it looks like Gavvy’s all better.

  26. AmZ says:

    Confucius say: “I never said that.”

    :)

  27. angedemystere says:

    AH!! lol

    Well, I did get to see the episode, and my cerebral cortex exploded. At the part where Javert “saw the light,” I had a sudden flashback to Jim Carrey’s “How the Grinch Stole Christmas.” It was one of the most awkward things I have ever forced myself to watch. I tried to do it a second time, and I just couldn’t. The rest of the episode was fine, just not . . . that one little part. Oy. I think I would have enjoyed it more if I actually understood what was being said. Somebody has got to sub this episode!

  28. Sythar says:

    You know… I was just about to say that it wasn’t me either when I went and checked. Blow me down, but both quotes can be laid firmly at my door. Fancy that. ;-)

  29. angedemystere says:

    And we are eternally grateful for them. ^^

    BTW, I am grieved by the fact that no one’s posting here anymore. This was a lot of fun.

  30. Sieglinde says:

    WTF?

    Javert MUST die!

    Come on, people. In Japan, suicide is an accepted and admired thing… they are not f***in’ Catholics! Japanese kids hear the story of the 47 Ronins as an evening tale. So why the hell have they let Javert live?! This is just laughable.

  31. p51 mustang says:

    Tt is possible that Javert commits his suicide “off stage”, right?

  32. psgels psgels says:

    Unfortunately not: we see him at one of the later episodes.

  33. angedemystere says:

    And the last two episodes where he regains some of his badassness (in a good way). I still haven’t figured out why they took this route. Maybe because they really wanted Thenardier to be the ultimate villain and have Javert redeem himself like Valjean. BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT OF HIS CHARACTER! As much as I love him.

    Irene: [i]There’s another explanation for Javert’s suicide which I think is almost as valid – that he both accepts that Valjean has changed, and that the right thing to do is to let Valjean go. But, looking back on his past, he has to wonder how many other lives he’s ruined as a result of his misguided efforts to maintain order. Which isn’t to say that Javert’s an incompetent policeman in the slightest – quite the reverse, in fact, as intelligent, honest men are hard to come by in any profession – but he must have made a few mistakes of this caliber before. Fantine’s case, for example, comes to mind.[/i]

    That seems to be the road the anime took with sorting out Javert’s motive for both wanting to commit suicide and for finally accepting mercy into his life. I don’t think he thinks of Fantine specifically during his mental maelstrom on the bridge in the book, but he does in the anime. He certainly acknowledges that Valjean is a good man now, which mainly causes his confusion. Someone had the English subbed episode on youtube at one point, but it has since been taken down. :(

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Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Follow up films coming though.
Anonymous2142275
Galactic Heroes, is starting to grow on me, is a shame, that's only 12 episodes so much potential being wasted. What happened to those times when long animes, could have at least 50 episodes ( Gundam Seed, Code Geass) and still be viable. feeling hopeless
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: A female director you could also look into is Moufida Tlatli , especially silences of the palace.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On golden kamuy, from reading on in the manga, there will be a big reveal regarding Asirpa soon. Also I feel the prisoner guys are becoming monster of the week.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm glad to be reviewing stuff again on letterboxd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I...actually momentarily forgot about the PM system.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Watch Bombshell, secrets of a hollywood star or calling hedy lamarr, Bombshell is a recent documentary about Lamarr.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Von Triers new film looks darkly funny though to a degree and I love the self-indulgent first per3son narration.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I have no idea how Stellan Skarsgard (who works alot with Von trier) produced Alexander Skarsgard, the latter is far too attractive to come from that. I feel the same about Asia Argento, I refuse to believe Dario could have produced such a fine creature.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm rarely about morals or understanding as an importance when it comes to film, I care most about how it hits me on a visceral/emotional level, how daring it is in its imagination, visuals, madness , creativity.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: thanks, received it. God, Von Triers new film is entirely something else. Full-on provocation. And I already think his Nymphomaniac was too much
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Also I'm dying to see Von Trier and Chang-dongs new films, especially the priors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I sent you a private message.
Lenlo
That said, the key drama scenes were still great. Okabe's VA continues to make me happy. Im just not sure how much of this is nostalgia.
Lenlo
Steins;Gate is at its best in moments of character drama and character interaction. All of its value lies in its characters. Any action, with this muted style, is going to come off stiff and dull. A con of the art-style decision.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I'm glad you said that, because I felt visually it looked stiff this week and that brief scene in the beginning wasn't much to look at. But Okabes meeting with Baldyguy-san and the cliffhanger and after credits bit were good scenes.
Lenlo
So yeah, this was probably the weakest week of Steins;Gate so far. Its pretty clear its not an action series and that its style doesnt suit itself well to combat scenes
SuperMario
... watching and reading many shounen titles (Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest, Bleach and the likes), shounen isn't my cup of tea at all
SuperMario
While I grow up
Lenlo
@Anon, I love Shounen. BnHA is one of my favorites every season its on. Doesnt mean I like Black Clover though
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thank you for that anon, when I watched the episode earlier I wasn't aware there was a post credits scene.
Anonymous2141254
oh well, we still are early on in S;G 0 too. Plus, there seems to be a huge development at the end of the episode
Anonymous2141254
idk, i can't help but feel that besides the amadeus plotline, everything else feels "fillery"
Anonymous2141254
I must say though that I'm still waiting for it to get good, idk maybe my expectations are too high because the original was great after the first few episodes
Anonymous2141254
Don't forget to watch end credits fo Steins Gate 0
KTravlos
I like some shonen. I just think that they are popular enough as not to be worth reviewing ihmo.
Vonter
@Anon2140150 - I do. Though Shounen do have the issue of being derivative in certain aspects like power scales and several doing the FMA Brotherhood climax (of what I've watched). Also they're made to be endless. It can be intimidating jumping to one that has several seasons.
Anonymous2140150
Does everyone here don't like shonen anime?
Amagi
Really, if there is one piece of information (aside from otome maybe) that makes me ignore a series forever it's a LN about a LN author or illustrator. The selfinert wish fulfillment couldn't be more obvious.
Amagi
Another LN greenlit for an anime production and the synopsis starts with "* is a light novel illustrator and..".
Amagi
@KTravlos: I don't know why modern anime hate curly- and/or wild hair so much. The old hair style gave Reinhard a more royal look, whereas he looks like a normal highschool boy now. Not that I am complaining about the anime as a whole. Also, I like some of the new designs.
KTravlos
and a part of me things it is indeed the hair. It comes to low, giving Reinhard a slovenly, lazy feel. When Yang feels more energetic you know there was a mistake.
KTravlos
and yes, this Reinhard fares poorly in comparison to the OVA one. He is dull. I need more Yang :p
KTravlos
ai vay vay. The Castrop Rebellion remains waste of time. And this time it was worse. The older depiction was tacky but at least it showed Kircheis ability in a logical manner. This time I had no idea what the hell happened. It felt cheap.

The rest of the episode was ok. Not completely sold on all the renditions of imp. admirals though I still love the uniforms.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*those
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hearing these , I find myself much more tolerant of anime voice acting even if the dub might only be okay.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its actually less of a sync issue, as I'm talking about 60s dubs , alot of people think the voices in old anime English dubs from the 90s are dated, but the old sixties kungfu and western dubs are shocking, far worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't mind sometimes satirical dubbing like on tiger lily , dialectics break bricks and kung pow however.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And those can be difficult to acquire sometimes in Italian or Chinese.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Live action films, this is especially annoying sometimes because I love Spaghetti westerns and Chinese martial arts films and old Italian cop thrillers.
Anonymous2137430
@Kaiser-Eoghan Are you referring to foreign animated films of foreign live action films because dubbing live action is a different beast as I'm sure you're aware. The idiosyncratic nature of watching moves and facial expressions not properly match voices really pulls the viewer out of the experience
SuperWooper
LoGH is airing a special next week because of scheduling delays, so that's one less thing to do.
AidanAK47
Well to those whom it might concern, expect my posts to be later than usual this week. Work is hell at the moment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have to say, this is probably a bit hypocritical, but while I enjoy dubs of anime I really really can't stand dubs of foreign films.
Lenlo
Simo Hayha would make a pretty crazy Archer.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine a fate strange fake adaptation will materialize eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But everyone seems to want that Finnish sniper as a Fate servant .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still no Mao, still mad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I have lost track of the historical characters in the fate lineup.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, to expand on that point the following historical figures are now female: Nero Claudius, Leonardo da Vinci, Frankenstein's Monster, Xuanzang, Jing Ke, Quetzalcoatl, Minamoto no Yoshitsune, Miyamoto Musashi, Okita Souji and many more to come.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I find it's an enjoyable watch though flawed. If you can get past some odd fanservice around the first ten episodes then I say it's worth watching.
Anonymous2133468
So i was thinking if i start watching, darling in the franxx, is worth it? or is just another 6/10 anime?
Lenlo
God damnit. Why Nasu. Just why.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, that ain't even Lewd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In all seriousness its ridiculous, the Japanese will make a cute/moe girl out of anything.
AidanAK47
....Should I also mention that Francis Drake is a big boobed pirate queen?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Posting lewd images on a respectable chatbox.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, But none of these characters are in the anime adaptions. Well besides Jack and Saber.
Lenlo
Aidan, all this conversation did was prove that my decision to only ever watch the Ufotable adaptions was the correct decision.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, you can blame Extella for the Attlia the Hun thing. I wasn't too fond of it myself. Also should mention Attila is female as well.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6414/528599445b739909c02993cfdbfc9f277d088cf2_hq.jpg
AidanAK47
Also Masky I will be the first to admit to the ridiculous aspects of the Fate Franchise but do take note that you are commenting on something you know literally nothing about. Which is the very definition of ignorance and is quite annoying. Fate/Zero nails the themes it's going for. So go watch Fate/Zero, come back and apologize.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Give it time. Genghis is getting in there eventually with Grand Order. We just had Anastasia and Salieri introduced after all. And it's not as if this story introduces Servants willy nilly, they need actual story purpose. Genghis Khan wouldn't have fit the Narrative that Fate/Zero was going for.
Lenlo
Wait Attila is an Alien and Edison is a Lion? God damnit Fate. Why are you doing this to me. I was already annoyed at your treatment of Musashi
Masky
(aliens existing in the show is good example of that missing on themes part xP)
Masky
*most successful conqueror
Masky
Honestly was just amused most conqueror of all time not being featured in the show :D But wait, whats this about aliens?
AidanAK47
Anyway the important thing to take into account is that in the Fate universe, King Arthur is a woman, Attila the Hun is an Alien, Thomas Edison is a lion and Jack the Ripper is a little girl in a dominatrix outfit. Any questions?
AidanAK47
And while you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes, it does leave you ignorant of how that show handles those ideas and themes.
AidanAK47
As for the Historical Alexander, he wasn't given the title of King of Couquerors. Fate/Zeros interpretation of him was. As generally accurate Fates interpretation of Servents history can be, they can make changes to suit the narrative.
AidanAK47
In that Regard Alexander was doing the conquest thing before Ghengus did. Ghengus likely has some other title. Hell he may only have the title because public consciousness was is more familiar with Alexander than Ghengus.
AidanAK47
Yeah, looking it up seems the King Title lost quite a lot of meaning in the Nasuverse. Though the King Title is rather flimsy. I mean Arthur is the King of Knights cause of the Knights of the round table. Gil is king of heroes because his tale was the first Heroic myth.
Lenlo
I think Alexander was just the first one they thought of, and they couldnt retroactively give it to someone else.

That said, Broskander deserves it <3
Masky
(And no, you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes of it.)
Masky
(just to note in case I need to note, I do tend to do at least cursory research when I make comments on stuff I don't watch)
Masky
That first part is semantics as Fate gives title "King" to historical figures who weren't kings already :D Also, you can make that argument about historical Alexander the Great? Since that seriously sounds like kind of weak reason.
AidanAK47
Also sees Rider as deserving of title of "King of Conquerors" because that which he strives to conquer most is not lands or material wealth, but the hearts of people, the toughest conquest that can be undertaken by anyone.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Ghengis Khan wasn't a king. He was a Khan.
Lenlo
Ghengis is always a Rider in my mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, Ghengis would be an appropriate beserker servant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Masky: I know, it feels so wrong I'm still mad I can't summon Karl Marx or Stalin.
Masky
So wait, Fate series is about historical figures with super powers, but "King of Conquerors" title isn't given to Ghengis Khan? :D Seriously? Thats just so wrong
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't feel any point in finishing it, it feels like something that I'd just randomly drop , not because its a bad show, but because I got my fill of it.
AidanAK47
I am actually going to drop blogging it.
AidanAK47
@Sash, indeed. I have been watching it but not blogging it for the last few episodes because it just hasn't givne me anything to say. I don't think it's a bad show but I have pointed out the flaws and strengths of it already so there is truly nothing more to say on it.
Sash
I think wotakoi is starting to feel repetitive..
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware Shana and Batman Ninja Harelequinn are both voiced by Rie kugimiya.
Lenlo
I did. It was... It was a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Did you end up watching Batman ninja by the way?
Lenlo
Music is great, yeah. When the music is on point, everything goes up. Everytime the sync the fight/punches to the music I just get hyped. Like the rotating shot with Aragaki or the first fight in episode 1.
Lenlo
Ill do my best to be clearer in the future on that front. Yeah, I dont mind twists like this. Makes the inevitable Mikio fight, narratively, even better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel the music does alot of the lifting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, so that was it.
Lenlo
Sorry if I never made that clear.
Lenlo
I would rather have fewer, amazing, fights than a lot of low-quality fights. This is a one cour show, the more meaning/impact they can give each fight the better.

Like Aragaki, narratively, was great. Loved it. Its just in animation/choreography that it falls flat.
Lenlo
Im disappointed with the animation of the fights. Narratively, I think they are quite good.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*disappointed with the fights in past episodes
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Pretty much what I said I thought of the episode. Although I was surprised how took the episodes ending, I expected you to see it as a slap in the face after being disappointed with the fights.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, I thought Megalo Box did something unique this episode. I wasn't expecting Joe to *not* fight. And the Mikio/Yukiko proxy war is an interesting character motivation. Im betting Yukiko will get Joe a full citizenship, effectively getting her on his side.
Lenlo
I wish I was physically capable of watching Megalo Box without thinking of Hajime no Ippo. I really do. But everytime I watch it, it makes me want to watch Ippo again to.
Anonymous2120908
I watched some more of the Chimera family chinese anime. (Wasn't aware it was monthly released). And geez, I like the concept, the background art is very pretty and contrasts with settings that have become tired in other anime. Yet sadly the animation and script are WEAK. I haven't grasped the quality of what's expected of these types of production but I want to believe, they're trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not much in the way of action in megalobox this week, but I did like the focus on Yukkiko getting a small character moment and then the big moment at episodes end .
AidanAK47
@Anon, That's some lazy ass trolling buddy. Should have stopped before the hashtags.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm even sort of looking forward to supposedly less respectable stuff like Goblin slayer and happy sugar life.
Vonter
Also E3 is almost here. And I can't wait. I think Nintendo will have a good show considering they're revealing the new Smash with a tournament. There's rumors of the new game by Retro Studios (Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong) and maybe they'll reveal something about how Pokemon will be on the Switch.
Vonter
Also there's always the chance of something new being discovered. Not everything needs expectations behind. Sometimes great things come out of nowhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So yes, there are some at least decent shows coming out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Muh Baki, Muh Bananna fish, muh made in abyss season 2, muh Vinland.
Anonymous2119906
The rest of this year looks like shit for anime and 2019 doesn't look great either #fuckmoe #makeanimegreatagain
Anonymous2119214
@Kaiser yeah it happened in half the amount of eps this time around for steins gate 0; which i expected considering there's a lot of ground to cover
Anonymous2119106
@Supermario Something like Fate or the LOTR films are a different case. I get where you're coming from about your preference, but I'm arguing that if a large story is going to be split into 3 films, it helps that the 3 films feel cleanly cut. Infinity war, even though we know there's a second part to the story, feels like it has that cohesive narrative structure with a beginning, middle, and end
Anonymous2119106
@Super Mario yea but the marvel movies are a different situation so i don't think the comparison is as appropriate. Marvel movies are "episodic" in nature rather than a continuous narrative. The films are largely isolated stories that are happening in a similar universe that only happen to "congeal" narratively because of a few overarching details shared between films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I remember when the original series suddenly shifted and got going and it was a really depressing episode.
Lenlo
Oh baby. The storm has finally come in Steins;Gate. Let the true suffering commence
SuperMario
@anon2118276: that's why I don't like LoTR trilogy. It's still a whole body chopped up in 3 parts, despite how clean the cut is. Whereas for me it works better if it was like a branch in a tree. The Marvel movies (despite my disinterest on those) are a good example of this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I did feel some of this weeks steins gate felt fillery, I do like see these characters interact and given the episodes conclusion, this episode acted as a calm before the storm.
Lenlo
Ill agree with you on King Kong. As for the Ralph Bakshi LotR, I have. I am still to this day impressed by the overlay of 2D art onto real/overexposed footage. It makes for shockingly fluid animation in places and has its own distinct style
Anonymous2118208
@Lenlo - Have you watched the old Ralph Bakshi adaptation of the first two books? It's uneven, but it's interesting comparing and contrasting certain decisions. As good as Peter Jackson is, I feel he makes very longwinded films, I like his version of King Kong a lot, but it is too long.
Anonymous2118276
@supermario i disagree; the point is that even though the LOTH films have cliffhanger endings, they still feel like fils. they have a defined first second and third act with well paced tension and release throughout them. They follow a storytelling macrostructure necessary for films to feel like cohesive narratives even if they are to end on a cliffhanger
Lenlo
I quite liked the individual LOTR movie just fyi
Vonter
Marvel surprisingly has kept their movies simple enough, that while you might miss details nowadays, you can tell what's happening.
Vonter
Another bad case is like with Assassin's Creed, which like Lost, just tried to tease a lot of things, then it grew tired of trying to piece them together and let the last games work more standalone, with little hints of a larger lore.
Vonter
Metroid does both, it has a standalone story and a hint to what a sequel might bring. Though that hint rarely matters by the time the new game is released.
Vonter
@SuperMario - Some videogames trilogies also do that. Gears of War and God of War had good standalone beginnings but by the second game they put cliffhanging endings. Kingdom Hearts does that and I expect 3 to also do it. Megaman Legends and Half Life had incomplete stories, which might be the worse case in regards to trying to make a continuous story.
SuperMario
It ruins the appetite
SuperMario
I actually think Lord of the Rings' trilogy is a bad example to follow. These films are meant to be viewed as a whole, so each film doesn't hold much as an individual story. I just can't digest films that have "to be continued" sign at the end. Imagine having a first course meal and then have to wait for few days for second course
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the current topic, I would be well for the production of a long running, ambitious ova series.
Anonymous2116425
then again, i don't take too much issue with these films feeling like movie-sized eps...the wait just sucks is all
Anonymous2116425
clearly the films need each other to tell the whole story, yet they can be taken for what they are in isolation as well
Anonymous2116425
I don't mind the trilogy trend at all; like Aidan said, when everything is said and done, all the films will be available to watch. I just think a stronger attempt should be made to make them feel like complete films. Something like the lord of the rings trilogy is a great example of how to do this
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am in full confidence that neither I nor Miura will survive to the end of berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course maybe they won't have a future , think about it that way, then they'd never see it, life has that weird way of being unpredictable like that =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
You can always rewatch them just before watching the one after.
AidanAK47
Of course not. But that's the thing. The wait is only a temporary problem. Anyone in the future will have all movies ready to view.
SuperMario
So it's best to wait for another 2 years to watch Heaven's Feel? Hell NOT
AidanAK47
When all the movies come out though you can basically barrel through it like a TV series.
SuperMario
Dangit, it's me Mario
Anonymous2115918
I still don't know if I like this trilogy trend. We've had a fair bun h of those in recent years (Berserk Golden Age, Madoka, even Kizumonogatari). I guess doing it that way, they'd make much more profits, and we have higher production values, but the wait is way too long and I don't think it works as movie-format
Kaiser-Eoghan
One of the very rare times where self-awareness works.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can be nice and say of course Ryan Reynolds+ violence, comic was funnier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But I'm sure if you think it over, the first deadpool was trapped in origin story mode, as an advantage, the sequel, is probably free of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Deadpool 2 had John Wicks director, which at the least means something in terms of action direction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: There was a whole run of deadpool issues called Cable and deadpool, which I suppose that pairing together gets the best out of the character.
AidanAK47
Seen Deadpool 2 tonight and I have difficultly deciding if it's better or worse than Deadpool 1. Still it's quite fun and I enjoyed it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I feel somewhat similar in regards to Franxx. When this series finishes I won't be singing high praises for it. Yet I do feel that it's worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Now I get ya. Yeah I understand that. I might even feel the same if I didn't already know the story from the VN.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The second film seems to be in cinema this year but we won't get it until it hits blu-ray.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: As I expected, I am disappointed that they have held back . And you might just be right about Castrollop/Caligula/Nero, when I originally attempted to watch the show years ago, that was the episode I stopped on.
KTravlos
Yang really is stealing the show this time. But I wanted the "Alcohol is mankind's oldest friend" rant. I need it.
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Hisone to Masotan – 06 [I’ll Shout Your Name]

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