Posted by psgels on 18 November 2007 with categories: Les Miserables - Shoujo Cosette


Okay, I don’t care about the cheesy parts. This episode was absolutely magnificent! Just when I thought that this series had passed its best part, it comes and delivers such an incredibly awesome episode. Obviously, spoilers are going to follow.

If this was a regular anime, this would be about the time where the adults step back and let the youngsters take over. In this episode, it’s the ENTIRE OPPOSITE, as it features the final epic conflict between Jean and Javert, and the younger members of the cast take a step back and only get a few small minutes of airtime. At the end of the previous episode, Jean had a badly wounded Marius with him, and indeed, Jean finally stops running away and agrees to go with Javert if he brings Marius to a hospital.

We then switch to Javert’s carriage, where I absolutely loved the conversation Jean and Javert had, and to make things even better, Jean explains what exactly made him change so much. It turns out that the words of the bishop brought him in a huge confusion, and he lived a miserable life of a drifter at that point. Then he got accidentally mistaken for a thief, and scared a child away because of it, and that’s what made him see the light.

Javert finally has this moment when he realizes that Jean still has Fantine’s last wishes in his mind, after all these nine years. Marius is dropped off at the hospital, and Javert leaves Jean behind when the latter wants to say his final goodbye to Cosette! Later, when Javert realizes what exactly he had done, he really sees the light. Literally and figuratively, and I adored the amount of depth that he got with his little monologue.

Immediate changes in personality are often hard to do, and they often feel forced, but for me, this episode was awesome, both for Jean and Javert and more than half of the scenes had me crying at the screen. I’m not sure whether it was done this way in the book, but one way or the other, this episode was outstanding.

And right now, I’m wondering what the creators have been planning for the final six episodes. Will it be one long aftermath, or will Thenardier return one final time? The latter would be awesome.

33 Responses

  1. angedemystere says:

    Wait . . . exactly HOW did this episode end?

  2. psgels psgels says:

    The episode ended with Javert, letting Jean go and telling his colleagues that Jean died.

  3. Irene says:

    …no.

    NO. NO, NO, NO, NO. JUST. NO.

    I…

    …and here I thought that letting Gavroche survive was the worst thing they could’ve done. I…just…

    angedemystere, if you value your sanity and your grasp of canon, for heaven’s sake don’t watch this episode. It will only end in tears. I don’t know who that man was who “saw the light” at the end of this episode, but he wasn’t Javert.

    I…I’ll write more when I’m more coherent. Right now I’m going to go console myself with Philip Quast.

    Singing “Javert’s Suicide.”

    Repeatedly.

    …aaaaaaaaaargh.

  4. R says:

    Yep, I predicted this was going to happen. Oh well.

  5. Irene says:

    I stand corrected, R.

    *crawls into a corner and rocks back and forth, whimpering*

  6. psgels psgels says:

    I somehow suspected that with this episode, the creators would divert from the novel somehow. Ironically, the moment where Javert saw “the light” was the only part that really felt out of place, now that I’m thinking back. It’s a shame, if there was anything that would have made this episode even better it would have been the suicide of Javert.

    But then again, this remains a children’s anime, unfortunately. I can understand how a suicide can be a bit too much for the younger viewers, compared to a regular murder.

  7. Irene says:

    This is why I was pretty dubious when I first heard about Shoujo Cosette. Les Mis isn’t children’s material. It’s gritty and realistic and not at all fluffy (unless you count the bits with Marius and Cosette in), and to cut any of that out would be to do the original work a grave injustice.

    It isn’t in Javert’s nature to “see the light” and simply walk away – and that’s the understatement of the year. Mizzies have slightly different views on why, exactly, Javert commits suicide, but I think all of us agree that the last thing he’d do is survive that confrontation with himself.

  8. angedemystere says:

    You mean . . . he just walked away, and THAT’S IT?!

    WHAT THE HELL?!?!

    If they just leave it at that without some kind of explanatory follow-up, I’m going to scream. Oh, dear Lord . . .

  9. Irene says:

    What irritates me most is that he spent half his bloody monologue staring meaningfully at the Seine, as if to get our hopes up that he’d actually jump. That’s sadistic, that is.

  10. GuruLazer says:

    You have to be kidding me… I’ve waiting the whole series for the ‘off the rails’ moment, and now…! *goes off on a Quast rant*

  11. GuruLazer says:

    I don’t speak any Japanese so don’t know what was said in this episode, but do you think it’s maybe possible that after going to the police post the story will continue as normal? Maybe?! *hopes die*

  12. Tania says:

    I don’t like the way this serie keeps on . Actually I HATE it !!! First, everything showed isn’t written in the book , I thought since Mabeuf and Eponine had died ( a huge sacrifice! ), that’s because japoneese anime always follow historical facts so they just can’t do otherwise. Like Versailles no bara of Riyoko Ikeda for exemple, have you seen this one? Well, nearly everyone dies in this one and Mary-Antoinnette and the king don’t survive due to a miracle! It a great anime! A manga – anime isn’t especially for children , everyone knows it . Actually they’re more for adults or teenagers. Because some are even forbidden till 18 like Elfen Lied. So it can’t be an excuse to ruin everything, there has to be something else, I HOPE SO!!! And besides ,les miserables isn’t a children’s novel and I’m sure they know it. So it’s not supposed to be a chidren’s show because they wouldn’t understand anything. Well, let’s get down to the serie, the fact Gavroche and even Javert survive, THAT’S JUST UNFORGIVABLE!!! It really is!!! I could have forgiven them if Eponine had survived as well! She’s the only one whom I really wanted to see alive at the end and find happiness even if I knew that’s not in the novel. But I wanted that so much !!!But why did she have to die while almost all the others who are also supposed to die will live happily ever after. It not a disney movie, come on! But it really looks like all the characters are going to form a big family. It looks like Gavroche is going to live with Cosette like if she were his mother or something! Valjean is going to look after them! Now I’m sure no one else would die and the serie would keep on making mistake after mistake for children’s sake. Well,then why do they have to show all this blood in the 41st episode. Till then it was extraordinary work but the end is just a big disappointment! They almost wasted everything. How could they do that? I keep telling myself that something happened between the 41st and the 42nd episode. Maybe a change in the team. But I still cannot understand!
    However,I’ll watch it till the very end, I have no more hopes but it will be so funny to see how they’ll manage to conclude because there’re only six episodes left! They should hurry!

  13. psgels psgels says:

    Tania: the thing is that most anime (including Elfen Lied) air after midnight, when all of the children are already asleep. Les Miserables airs at 7:30, where most children are able to see it, just before they head to bed. I’m not sure if you’ve seen other World-Masterpiece Theatre-series, but I can imagine how they’d deal with the same mature themes, put into a children’s context. Indeed, they won’t understand everything, but it’s series like these that will make an impression on them.

    Also, from the perspective of someone who hasn’t read the book, I don’t really things that the changes that have been made ruined it. You can read above how much I enjoyed this episode, and at most it felt a bit cheesy when Javert “saw the light”. I’m not sure about the others, but I’m not going to let these small details ruin such a magnificent anime.

  14. Tania says:

    Well, you have a point. If I hadn’t read the book , I would certainly liked this one . And yes , it’s true that some things are well done . But it’s hard for me to accept that a character that I loved more than all others has passed away. Try to understand my point! Well despite that thing, I find it’s a good episode , really. But don’t you think that if Gavroche and Javert survived it would be even better if Mabeuf and Eponine survived as well, don’t you think ? Well, I know that sometimes I really get attached to some characters so I can’t have an objective point of you. But you’re right! The way Javert has finally seen the light is remarkable! After all these years of searching Jean. And I liked the way he managed to understand Jean somehow and to give up. When Jean comes back to the carriage, Javert is gone. That was a good point. And I liked the way Cosette sang the song to Gavroche, the one she sang when they were children. I’m glad they managed to see one another and they’re finally together now. Well when I try to pull the book aside and to forget the way Eponine died , I think it is a good episode. So I actually agree with you on that point.

  15. psgels psgels says:

    Well, I can see your point, yeah. It would have been great if both Maboef and Eponine had a bit more airtime as well, instead of getting killed off so early, because their characters were just too awesome at times. But yet, I think that their deaths would have been more necessary to show than the one of Gavroche and Javert (do note that I’m saying this without knowing how both the book and anime will end).

    Because the characters we knew and loved through the series died so early, we get shown the cold and hard reality of the revolution, and Les Amis are basically engaging in something that can quite easily kill them. Compare this with a similar anime that refuses to kill off its characters: there’s no sense of tension because well, the characters won’t die anyway, so why should we bother to care for them? Of course, I say this without knowing what kinds of effects the deaths of Gavroche and Javert had in the book. Were there people who cared about them? Did their deaths influence the people around them in any way?

  16. Tania says:

    psgels : Yeah, I’ve come to realize that what you’ve said was true. So I’ll just try to enjoy watching it. I suppose I could. And yes despite everything, it is a magnificent anime! You’re absolutely right! And I’m sorry I haven’t put myself in your place before writting. Because I quite agree with everything you said. Even if I’d rather they followed the book. But it’s in this anime that I found the character that I loved the most. And it remains my favorite show even if I don’t agree with everything that occurs in the end due to my reading. So I wanted you to know that I’ve read your comment above and practically agreed with everything. It just that when you’ve read the book, it’s hard to accept the way the anime took.

  17. Tania says:

    psgels : Well I don’t remember just everything but I would say that Gavroche hadn’t much people who cared about him. He was a street boy who was quite rejected from his family, his mother hated boys and contrary to the anime , he hadn’t known Cosette because he was just a baby when she was with the Thénardier and they had never become friends and hadn’t Chouchou to support them. So it’s much more sad for them both. I don’t remember anyone who would cared that much about Gavroche and certainly not Cosette. But his death is important in the book and quite a symbol of Revolution and people protest against starvation and poverty. So he fought for what he thought was right. And Javert is a determined and obsessed by the law man who would never accept the fact people could change and that’s what important in his death. I don’t how to put it. But to accept that would ruin all the concepts he lived for. He would rather die than admit Valjean’s change. He’s a cold man who fallows the law without taking into account his feelings or his heart. I wondered if he even had one . So, this change in his personnality even if it’s interesting in the anime could never have been possible the book. Even if both characters haven’t had friends ( or at least I don’t remember them to have some ) , I would say their deaths are quite as important in the book and I would say even more important because they’re symbols especially Gavroche. But you’re totally right! Mabeuf and Eponine’s deaths may be more important than the other too. Because those two characters were exeptionnal and I don’t know for you but when Eponine died my heart broke apart. I kept telling ” please don’t die! I don’t want you to die ! I care for you so much!” Maybe it sounds stupid but her death seemed so real! I even invented something about her. She survives because Mont Parnasse saved her. And I just kept telling myself it’s a character and not someone real but it didn’t help . I don’t remember to ever have felt this way while I was watching an anime. And I cried when Mabeuf died . That must be it . I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have cried for Javert but even if I never liked Gavroche as much as I liked Eponine , I liked this character too so I would certainly be sad . It’s not like if I wanted him to die. But Gavroche’s death is important in the book, that’s for sure.

  18. Tania says:

    psgels : Well I don’t remember just everything but I would say that Gavroche hadn’t much people who cared about him. He was a street boy who was quite rejected from his family, his mother hated boys and contrary to the anime , he hadn’t known Cosette because he was just a baby when she was with the Thénardier and they had never become friends and hadn’t Chouchou to support them. So it’s much more sad for them both. I don’t remember anyone who would cared that much about Gavroche and certainly not Cosette. But his death is important in the book and quite a symbol of Revolution and people protest against starvation and poverty. So he fought for what he thought was right. And Javert is a determined and obsessed by the law man who would never accept the fact people could change and that’s what important in his death. I don’t how to put it. But to accept that would ruin all the concepts he lived for. He would rather die than admit Valjean’s change. He’s a cold man who fallows the law without taking into account his feelings or his heart. I wondered if he even had one . So, this change in his personnality even if it’s interesting in the anime could never have been possible the book. Even if both characters haven’t had friends ( or at least I don’t remember them to have some ) , I would say their deaths are quite as important in the book and I would say even more important because they’re symbols especially Gavroche. But you’re totally right! Mabeuf and Eponine’s deaths may be more important than the other too. Because those two characters were exeptionnal and I don’t know for you but when Eponine died my heart broke apart. I kept telling ” please don’t die! I don’t want you to die ! I care for you so much!” Maybe it sounds stupid but her death seemed so real! I even invented something about her. She survives because Mont Parnasse saved her. And I just kept telling myself it’s a character and not someone real but it didn’t help . I don’t remember to ever have felt this way while I was watching an anime. And I cried when Mabeuf died . That must be it . I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have cried for Javert but even if I never liked Gavroche as much as I liked Eponine , I liked this character too so I would certainly be sad . It’s not like if I wanted him to die. But Gavroche’s death is important in the book, that’s for sure.

  19. angedemystere says:

    I think you are very right, Tania, in that Javert and Gavroche’s deaths, although not the type to make you cry (well, okay, they’re two of my favorite characters, so I probably would), they are strongly symbolic of the themes that Hugo was conveying through his novel: innocence and grace. What is really ironic about Gavroche’s death is that when he dies, he’s laughing. I forget exactly what this signifies, something about how even when innocence is destroyed, it gets the last laugh on this world of pain and suffering. I don’t know. As for Javert, his suicide is essentially the antithesis of Valjean’s reaction to the bishop’s act of mercy. Rather than give in to the power of kindness and forgiveness, Javert rejects Valjean’s gift of grace; he doesn’t know how to handle it. Although I must say, I think Hugo had it in for Javert from the start. He really did not like the police force and was using Javert as his allegorical representitive for this collective body. However, due to his (and I am using someone else’s words, can’t exactly remember whose) “great talent for characterization,” he ended up making Javert an intriguing character and not quite the cold-hearted, one-sided villain we initially are led to believe. And I suppose Hugo didn’t want to make the police force seem purely evil, just very insensitive to the sufferings of the poor and disadvantaged.

    All in all, though the concept of Javert not killing himself is extremely shocking, I am not quite ready to pass judgment on this series. The questions that are most important right now are: What is going to happen to Gavroche and Javert? Will we actually see Javert again, or is he gone for good? Will Gavroche stay with Marius and Cosette? Will he be reunited with his “boys”? Will he return to his former life as a street urchin? These are going to be crucial issues that I hope the creators will be able to resolve adequately. I’m keeping my fingers crossed . . .

  20. Irene says:

    And Javert is a determined and obsessed by the law man who would never accept the fact people could change and that’s what important in his death. I don’t how to put it. But to accept that would ruin all the concepts he lived for. He would rather die than admit Valjean’s change. He’s a cold man who fallows the law without taking into account his feelings or his heart. I wondered if he even had one.

    I beg to differ on this matter. Javert doesn’t kill himself because he can’t accept that Valjean has changed. Hugo himself says that Javert understands this, though he doesn’t come to that decision without a struggle. Javert kills himself because he realizes that he couldn’t possibly turn Valjean in – not after he’s come to realize all that Valjean has done – but, on the other hand, his moral code won’t allow him to simply let an escaped convict go free. For the first time, he’s confronted with a situation where doing what is right by the law would, in fact, be morally wrong. Simply rejecting the law is no easy matter for Javert; after all, these are the rules by which he’s lived for fifty years. Like angedemystere said, he can’t handle that – so he decides to remove himself from the problem.

    There’s another explanation for Javert’s suicide which I think is almost as valid – that he both accepts that Valjean has changed, and that the right thing to do is to let Valjean go. But, looking back on his past, he has to wonder how many other lives he’s ruined as a result of his misguided efforts to maintain order. Which isn’t to say that Javert’s an incompetent policeman in the slightest – quite the reverse, in fact, as intelligent, honest men are hard to come by in any profession – but he must have made a few mistakes of this caliber before. Fantine’s case, for example, comes to mind. We know from his behavior in M-sur-M that he’s as hard on himself as he is on everyone else – just look at his attempt to resign after he “mistakenly” suspects that Madeleine is Valjean – and, in his mind, that can’t go unpunished. But “How to resign from God?” he wonders, and he resigns from his post as inspector the only way he knows how.

    Either way you look at it, Javert doesn’t kill himself because he’s cold and heartless. Javert isn’t even cold and heartless in the book. Like angedemystere said, I’m sure Hugo might’ve meant him to be, but Hugo was simply too good a writer for that, and his “great talent for characterization” (was it AmZ who said that? or Sythar? I can’t quite recall either xD) transformed Javert into the snarky, talented man we see in the book. There’s the Javert Hugo tells us about, and then there’s the one Hugo shows, and frankly the one Hugo shows – which I’m far more inclined to accept as the “real” Javert – is anything but cold.

  21. angedemystere says:

    Ah, a fanfiction colleague! Yeah, I kinda thought it was one of those two authors. Was it Synthar who called them Poignant!Javert and True!Javert? I’ll have to check. You have hit the nail on the head, Irene. It is true that he tries to leave emotion outside his role as policeman, but it’s not because he’s cold-hearted, it’s because he believes that’s the best way to carry out his duty. Now, I know this is a weird place to mention it, but there’s this story called “Vendredi Bizarre” on fanfiction.net where Valjean and Javert switch bodies. Total crack fic, but surprisingly useful in showing how compassion and forgiveness can be a problem in law enforcement. At one point, Valjean (in Javert’s body) tries to arrest the Patron-Minette and fails miserably. XD It’s like they say, “Truer things have been said in jest.”

    Anyway, the reason Javert is my favorite character is that even though he appears to be one-dimensional, he’s actually a very complex character. There’s so much we don’t know about him and what it was in his past that made him the way he is. He’s not a hypocrite, either, which is why I’m worried that the creators will ruin Javert’s character in this anime by having him let Valjean go and be totally okay with it. If he’s not going to kill himself, they should AT LEAST have him resign from the force.

    I actually had the cute but incredibly unlikely and completely uncanon idea of Javert adopting Gavroche and his “boys,” making a sort of parallel with Valjean and Cosette. This would also resolve the problem of what will happen to these gamins once Gavroche recovers. Completely impossible, but so cute to think about.

  22. Tania says:

    angedemystere and Irene : Yes , I absolutely agree with you! By the way, when I mentioned concepts Javert lived for, what I meant was precisely his duty to the law and by ” cold ” I meant he blindly followed the law like you said for Fantine’s case ( for exemple ) without considering disadvantaged people. So by cold I didn’t meant bad. Actually, I don’t think we could ever say that one character is bad in the book. Life hasn’t been easy for all of them but they’re not bad themselves. Life made them what they are.

  23. Tania says:

    psgels , I wanted to thank you again for the blog you have created. It’s so great! Thanks to you I discovered anime I didn’t even heard of before , the best ones. So thanks again.
    By the way, I watched this episode again and I started to think it’s a really good one.

  24. Tania says:

    psgels , I wanted to thank you again for the blog you have created. It’s so great! Thanks to you I discovered anime I didn’t even heard of before , the best ones. So thanks again.
    By the way, I watched this episode again and I started to think it’s a really good one.

  25. angedemystere says:

    Actually, I don’t think we could ever say that one character is bad in the book. Life hasn’t been easy for all of them but they’re not bad themselves.

    Well, except Thenardier. ^^, I think he’s as close to “villain” as anyone gets in this book. But that doesn’t mean he’s not enjoyable to watch. I put Madame Thenardier as second-most villainous to her hubby because she genuinely loves her daughters. Thenardier’s motives are mostly self-centered (moreso later on when his family is dirt poor). So, yeah, there’s the whole nature vs. nurture issue going on there – to what degree can we blame people’s wickedness (strong word, I know, but sounds better than “badness”) on their personality, or their environment? No, no one is 100% evil, just as in real life, but there are certainly people who tend to lean to the dark side rather than the light.

    Well, I finally saw the trailer for the next episode. Is it just me, or was Javert’s name mentioned, like, three times? At least it looks like Gavvy’s all better.

  26. AmZ says:

    Confucius say: “I never said that.”

    :)

  27. angedemystere says:

    AH!! lol

    Well, I did get to see the episode, and my cerebral cortex exploded. At the part where Javert “saw the light,” I had a sudden flashback to Jim Carrey’s “How the Grinch Stole Christmas.” It was one of the most awkward things I have ever forced myself to watch. I tried to do it a second time, and I just couldn’t. The rest of the episode was fine, just not . . . that one little part. Oy. I think I would have enjoyed it more if I actually understood what was being said. Somebody has got to sub this episode!

  28. Sythar says:

    You know… I was just about to say that it wasn’t me either when I went and checked. Blow me down, but both quotes can be laid firmly at my door. Fancy that. ;-)

  29. angedemystere says:

    And we are eternally grateful for them. ^^

    BTW, I am grieved by the fact that no one’s posting here anymore. This was a lot of fun.

  30. Sieglinde says:

    WTF?

    Javert MUST die!

    Come on, people. In Japan, suicide is an accepted and admired thing… they are not f***in’ Catholics! Japanese kids hear the story of the 47 Ronins as an evening tale. So why the hell have they let Javert live?! This is just laughable.

  31. p51 mustang says:

    Tt is possible that Javert commits his suicide “off stage”, right?

  32. psgels psgels says:

    Unfortunately not: we see him at one of the later episodes.

  33. angedemystere says:

    And the last two episodes where he regains some of his badassness (in a good way). I still haven’t figured out why they took this route. Maybe because they really wanted Thenardier to be the ultimate villain and have Javert redeem himself like Valjean. BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT OF HIS CHARACTER! As much as I love him.

    Irene: [i]There’s another explanation for Javert’s suicide which I think is almost as valid – that he both accepts that Valjean has changed, and that the right thing to do is to let Valjean go. But, looking back on his past, he has to wonder how many other lives he’s ruined as a result of his misguided efforts to maintain order. Which isn’t to say that Javert’s an incompetent policeman in the slightest – quite the reverse, in fact, as intelligent, honest men are hard to come by in any profession – but he must have made a few mistakes of this caliber before. Fantine’s case, for example, comes to mind.[/i]

    That seems to be the road the anime took with sorting out Javert’s motive for both wanting to commit suicide and for finally accepting mercy into his life. I don’t think he thinks of Fantine specifically during his mental maelstrom on the bridge in the book, but he does in the anime. He certainly acknowledges that Valjean is a good man now, which mainly causes his confusion. Someone had the English subbed episode on youtube at one point, but it has since been taken down. :(

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SuperMario
yeah, she's checking her pulse while completely in control of the situation. Such badass. I wonder with the stakes so impossibly high how could they resolve all this? Not to mention they have other shits to face after escaping that orphanage. Good read. I love the three mains so far as well.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Yep. I actually didn't get into it until the end of the first chapter and then it's just got my full attention. Up to date and so far it hasn't let me down. Miss Mom is pretty damn unnerving. That one point near the beginning where she just holds the main girls head and stares at her like shes examining an object would scare the hell out of me if I was her.
SuperMario
This The Promised Neverland manga is awesome. I'm at chap 4 right now and it just getting better and better
Topgavin
Currently looking forward to Flip Flappers, Keijo and To Be Hero. Needa catch up on Girlish Number and Drifters but haven't had the time.
SuperMario
Oh, and that Zaragoto OVA which I think not a lot of people care to watch, at least not right now.
SuperMario
Now I consider catching up a part of this job haha
SuperMario
I'm more of a slice of life guy so my watch for this season are: natsume, Yuri on ice, girlish number, drifters, Fune wo amu, Saiki and I'm behind on Keijo, Magical Girl raising project, occultic;nine, buranki, Bungo stray dogs. Have a lot to catch up it seems
Lenlo
This season im watching Yuri, Drifters, and Flip Flappers. When I get the time I also try to watch some Bakumon
AidanAK47
Besides what I am blogging, I am also watching Jojo, Flip Flappers, Girlish number and Keijo.
AidanAK47
I guess you want to know what everyone's watching in the current season?
Anonymous533091
This is a mess
Anonymous532773
So the what out there y'all
Anonymous532773
And so number one out there
Anonymous532773
And some new anime
Anonymous532773
So what's new anime y'all seen
Anonymous532773
That's what. I think
AidanAK47
@Anon530022, I am not going to deny being arrogant. That's just my nature. But you are going to have to explain how wanting a show to have a genuine gay romance is homophobic? Kinda missing the logical steps on that jump. Anyway you being gay is irrelevant as I have a bisexual friend who says the romance isn't realistic in the slightest.
Anonymous530636
real interaction which makes everything feel fake. (sorry about the test walls)
Anonymous530636
I love basically any sports/romance anime so Yuri should be straight up my alley, but instead it just fails at both, mainly the sports part since it does try to focus on fanservice of the relationship between Victor and Yuri. I don't feel like the relationship between the two of them is real whether it's romantic or not. They keep having characters voice their thoughts about each other but no
Anonymous530636
Hi random long-time psgels reader, personally I think Yuri on Ice has kind of lost on trying to be a real romance and a real sports anime. It's characters are pretty weak and combing from someone that actually reads BL manga, I agree that their overt level of fanservice like focusing on the two of their lips and the rings, etc doesn't match their level of outright talking about shit.
Anonymous530138
I like a good dickin
Lenlo
tl;dr, chill its an anime.
Lenlo
Age gap isnt that big, and its not homophobic or arrogant to say a show isnt selling an aspect of itself well in his opinion. Lastly, romance for every person is different, so dont expect him to share your experiences/views on it.
Anonymous529997
Also, how Viktor's choice to become Yuuri's coach might have been initiated by not just Yuuri's skating, but Yuuri himself.
Anonymous529997
@Mario: I agree on the strip dance. Like, holy crap. But overall, I really like how episode 10 reframed the series from Viktor's perspective. Like, at first the whole commemorative photo thing made him seem like a jerk, but now we get to see that he had actually had a great time with Yuuri and was probably being genuine about it...
Anonymous530076
What happened to angry german kid
Anonymous530022
You just want them to identify themselves. You feel as if it's your right to know that they are gay. Well it isn't. It is their life, their story. You are being homophobic. You are being close minded. You are being arrogant. You are, indeed, very arrogant.
Anonymous530022
It is a mixture of admiration and lust and because it is hard to distinguish between the two it is difficult to express your feelings directly or even admit it to yourself.
Anonymous530022
As a gay man I attest that this is how romance works, ESPECIALLY when there is an age and experience gap.
Anonymous530022
This shows romance is actually reaistic, but you are still rejecting it. Yuri literally said he had found love. He said neither way who it's directed towards yet you are SO INSISTENT that it is towards skating. in the episode Victor even expressed admiration to Yuri's own dispositions beyond skating. He clearly was 'watching' him.
AidanAK47
If they planned to take such a hands off approach to romance then it would be better if they just focused on the skating. But well then the fujoshi's wouldn't be buying the Blu-rays now would they?
Lenlo
I can understand that, thats a problem I have with alot of modern romance's. Im just not seeing the backing off that happens in those romances. They just seem to raise it more and more in Yuri, without ever crossing the line, rather than toeing it then backing off.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, To me I find it aggravating. They go so far to portray them as gay yet when it comes to the final say they keep backing off. Hey I want to be more that friends...just kidding! Hey I love you...just kidding! Hey lets get married...just kidding! It like how harems constantly tease the main getting together with each girl when by shows end you know he's not going to get with anyone.
SuperMario
@lenl: agree. I'm still enjoying the hell of the show. A bit out of the blues thou when it comes to the strip dance (they shoulve planted that before), but it's a joy to watch every week
Lenlo
Eh. As I said, I think its above bait below romance. Either way im enjoying it and thats the important part.
SuperMario
For me they're just too much at the moments but unless they confirm it, nothing changes.
Kaiser Eoghan
Y'know I kind of wish Rorico would just come out and directly say he feels too old for most anime, its not really surprising a man in his 60s would be so cranky when it comes to this stuff.
SuperMario
@lenlo: I think it's more about statements. Yes, we understand the context of rings and engagements but unless they confirm it, nothing set in stones. And "hinting" is what they love to do, you can see just by the 2 shows I've coverage myself: Sound Eupho (Reina & Kumiko), Flip Flappers (Papika & Cocona) and people saying those same underlining context things.
Lenlo
I think its beyond baiting, below full blown romance at this point myself.
Lenlo
Does a show have to confirm and say "They kissed" to make it true? Seems along the same lines as "Fade to black" for sex. Then theres the ED which also made the start of the show much more interesting, as with this ED not its Victor that was jilted at the airport, when Yuri ran away.
Lenlo
See, I dont understand why they have to come out and say "We are gay" for you to accept its an actual romance. I dont see how this is baiting anymore either, as the rings and the "Engagement" seem pretty clear to me. Also, without knowing the current climate on the matter in Japan, this could be the clearest they are allowed to make it, while still fully intending for it to be a real romance.
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Agreed. I said before that I would like to be proven wrong on this but this series doesn't seem to have done that yet. I really will admit I am wrong to Anon2 if it does provide proof but it would need to be far more substantial than this.
@Anon2, Girl, boy, whatever.
Anonymous529668
I'm not a girl.
Anonymous529660
Even that is just grasping at straws though, haha.
Anonymous529660
@Aidan: I think the only thing from that scene that hints at actual romance would be where Viktor says something along the lines of a lot of other people got their L words from Yuuri, which he had earlier stated are "Love" and "Life." Honestly, even this is pushing it though, but the fact that he said it like that suggests that both he and Yuri got "those words" from Yuuri.
AidanAK47
Way I saw that scene was the guy saying "Fuck you, you think Yuri is so great. Well I am gonna be better than Yuri. Just you wait and see" and then Victor remarking on how Yuri awoke his competitive spirit. Aka his love for Skating.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Although I like both, I always prefer impressionism better. Expressionism for me tend to be a bit overwhelming and a bit subjectively. But mind you Flip Flappers still has moments of Expressionist as well (Episode 6: Irochan's parents)
AidanAK47
@Anon, I got the context you saw fine. About him getting mad over the "Good luck charm". You are being baited girl, hook, line and sinker.
Anonymous529618
You are missing context. You don't know anything. You don't even know why Yuri was mad do you? Why the fuck would he be mad about loving skating.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I bring up the impressionism vs expressionism thing because I feel that the impressionistic aspects of say a Tarkovsky film, Malick film and flippflappers feel superior to me over expressionistic style because its more emotionally satisfying while ALSO being athmospheric, Whereas expressinistic visuals are ONLY atmospheric.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Flippflappers has now reached a level where I feel the impressionism has gone beyond simply visual immersive in a way that makes us part of its world and has become more emotional.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: You mention impressionism in your review of flipflappers, in general do you feel on a visual level you respond more strongly to expressionism or impressionism?
SuperMario
I watched the whole thing so I know that in this episode, except the time they're giving rings to each other (in the name of "good luck charm") and Victor somewhat pump Yuri up for the Gold medal by Not Denying it; they still haven't admitted anything.
AidanAK47
Perhaps I am not the one who is in denial.
AidanAK47
Oh I think I see it now. Yeah this is nothing mate. The conversation was about skating from begining to end and Victor mentioned that he wasn't the only one to get his "L words" from Yuri. Pretty clear he means how Yuri helped Yurio awaken a love for Skating. Romantic love doesn't really make sense within the context. But yeah, they admitted nothing.
AidanAK47
Quite frankly if they don't have the balls to admit they are gay by this point they are just not going to.
AidanAK47
Time stamp means the point in the episode he actually said it. Like 18 minutes 20 seconds in or something. You should be able to get one. But maybe you can't find it either. Only thing I found Was about yuri teaching victor through his life and love but that's ambiguous enough to refer to his love for skating.
Anonymous529435
Don't have time stamp
Anonymous529435
Episode is narrated by Victor
Anonymous529435
At the end Victor admits he's in love and mentions the other person is also
AidanAK47
@Anon, Can you give me the timestamp on the episode? Scanning through it I don't see anything that suggests that.
Anonymous529150
Not joked
Anonymous529150
They admitted
Anonymous529150
No those were both me it's just the chat doesn't show it immediately so I posted again
AidanAK47
@Masky, He's denied it before but it's pretty obvious he's trying to make it seem like someone's agreeing with him.
AidanAK47
@Anon, admitted or joked?
Masky
So wait, is that same anon repeating himself or two different anons where second one copy pasted part of first one's post
Anonymous528870
They literally admitted a love triangle between the three main characters. You're in denial.
Anonymous528815
Are you kidding? This episode they outright admitted a love triangle between the three main characters. You're in denial.
AidanAK47
I actually was going to admit that I was wrong when I heard about the "Kiss" and gladly do so. But when I watched the scene in question it's clear what I said is still correct. They will dance around it, sure. But never outright confirm it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, discussed this before when the "Kiss" happened. Despite the series hinting it, and hinting it hard, it still hasn't outright confirmed it. While I am sure it is head canon to the watchers, the series itself is just queer baiting.
SuperMario
Okay... Just watched this week's Yuri on Ice. Haha things got weird again... and they so nailed Barcelona here, I recognized most of the places.
SuperMario
@anon527634: actually about that, I am a bit let down that after that "supposed kiss" in episode 7, no one in the series mentioned it again. Just like that "kiss" never happened.
Anonymous527534
So when is Aidan going to publicly admit he was wrong about the Yuri romance?
Lenlo
I loved the special ED so much.
Lenlo
Alright... Yuri this week was interesting in so many ways.
SuperMario
I'm also planning to catch BBK/BRK before the year end soon. I'm also find that series entertaining despite its obvious flaws
Kaiser Eoghan
But come to think of it, I do know what its like to enjoy something admittedly flawed, the first season of utawerumono was like that for me, I have nothing but criticism of it in all aspects but yet ended up being one of those things I somehow enjoyed watching.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, only flippflappers, natsume, drifters on my end.
AidanAK47
I wonder if anyone here is still watching Bubuki Buranki? It's weird but despite how deeply flawed it is I find it fairly enjoyable. Though that fantastic soundtrack certainly helps.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh they announced a Sonic movie too. Apparently it's a mix of live action and animation.
Anonymous525559
I am suprised SEGA didn't announce an Sonic movie and went with games like Altered Beast and Crazy Taxi, they probably could have just ripped off one story from the Archie Sonic comics and make an movie based on that, preferably the story where Sonic travels in the multiverse to fight an super powerful Sigma alongside Classic Megaman and Megaman X,Steet Fighter cast,Breath of Fire 3 cast and more
AidanAK47
@Anon, A parody Grindhouse film actually could work. I consider Overkill the best of House of the dead. Thing is there actually is already a house of the dead movie so this would be their second attempt. The first attempt...lets just say it didn't work out.
Anonymous523336
And House Of The Dead: Overkill is probably the best game in the franchise to adapt, i mean, it has Isaac Washington in it and dude's awesome.
Anonymous523336
None of those games have much of a story, but at least House Of The Dead could make for an entertaining silly movie, i mean House Of The Dead: Overkill is freaking awesome and has silly cutscenes at the start and end of every level.
Kaiser Eoghan
At most moonbeam city seems sylistically interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
Archer I simply lost track of and it ended up getting to long to catch up on it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Relatively old news, although I've been joking with friends about what if scenarios for a streets of rage film. I know there is a cg/live action hybrid sonic film in the works. I kind of want to think a shinobi or streets of rage film could work if they went full on 70s style action film.
AidanAK47
None of these games are played for the story. You would be better off just making a new game for them instead of a movie.
AidanAK47
I haven't even seen Archer. On another note SEGA is planning a bunch of live action movies of their franchises and boy do they all sound like a horrible idea. Shinobi, Golden Axe, Virtua Fighter, The House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Streets of rage and Altered Beast.
SuperMario
@Anon522497: hmm, I found Moonbeam City underwhelmed and for Archer up until their last season I actually got a bit tired of the cast (couldn't finish that season 7)
Anonymous522497
If i wanted Archer i would just watch Archer or Moonbeam City like everyone else.
Anonymous522338
Bloodivores
SuperMario
Anyone here watching Pacific Heat? It's an Aussie Archer-ripoff aired in Netflix last week. I actually enjoyed the 1st episode, not that great but everyone panned it like a plague.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Who?
Anonymous521123
#StephanieJaworowiczIsBeautiful
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: That'd be the compiliation film. I watched that based on hearing that the film version trimmed back on the shows weaker moments.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: was it the compilation film or the series itself? That scene is the highlight of that first season. I'm always a fan of KyoAni so it's very natural that I enjoy this series a whole lot.
Kaiser Eoghan
I watched the first season of sound euphonium, not much to say for it other than I liked the teacher guy and the scene where the black haired girl tells the main character that she thinks shes hiding behind a mask. Animation was as expected of kyoani good. All of those emotion shots though and some of the melodrama...
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, it does stop if you make an account.
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmmm there we go again, it delayed sending my message for longer than it should have.
Kaiser Eoghan
Anyone notice today and last night that the site has had some loading issues? I kept getting an error page for a while and it was also loading a bit more slowly. A server issue?
Lenlo
Have to say, Flip Flappers ep 5 was pretty good. I love atmospheric settings like that.
Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
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