Posted by psgels on 28 March 2008 with categories: Anime Reviews


So… I watched it. I originally dropped the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya after four episodes, back when it aired in the spring-season of 2006, simply because I had to drop a few series to prevent myself from watching too many series. The biggest reason why it took me so long to pick it up again is simply because the fanbase back then was incredibly annoying. Everyone seemed to talk about how awesome this series was, but the most praises I read were not about how well it was written, or the amount of creativity that was put into it, but about how moe the different female characters were. It really feels like every single squeal of Mikuru has been intensively discussed. I don’t know about others, but I’m not that keen on watching a series that’s based on a few moe-actions.

After finally watching this series, I must say that this series definitely is more than just moe, moe and moe. It’s been based on a series of light-novels, and it shows in the dialogue. Especially Kyon and Itsuki like to ramble on and with their respective sarcasm and philosophical analysis, and both are really well-written and keep you interested throughout the lesser interesting parts of this series, but I’ll get to that later.

Another flawless area of this series is of course the animation itself. It’s clear that Kyoani had a big budget for this series, and they used it pretty nicely to convey the subtle movements of the characters, the detailed backgrounds to portray the overall lives of the characters and the very impressive CG-scenes that pop up once in a while.

Well, now, regarding the lesser points of this series: there are basically two major flaws in this series. This anime basically consists of two parts. The first seven episodes (if I recall correctly, the original series aired in random order) are basically the story-arc, and show how Kyon gradually gets to know all the mysteries around Haruhi Suzumiya. This part is actually pretty good! The story continues to get pushed forward, and especially the second half of this story-arc delivers with a subtle, yet ominous atmosphere. The characters continuously develop and change, and it doesn’t have any chance to get boring. Heck, it wasn’t even focused on moe at all.

But yeah, the second arc is much less interesting. It’s basically a collection of random fillers that I guess were meant to flesh out the concept, but things rather failed here. It’s here where the character-development grinds to a halt and this series becomes mostly boring. This arc again consists out of seven episodes, and only during one of them I didn’t catch myself edging for ALT-F4, which ironically was the most down-to-earth episode of the bunch.

Which brings me to the second flaw of this series: Haruhi Suzumiya herself. Kyon, Itsuki and Yuki are actually pretty interesting characters, and I guess that Mikuru turned out much better than expected. Haruhi, however, got on my nerves every time she appeared. She also brought out the worst in other characters, because especially Mikuru can’t stop squealing when Haruhi is up to one of her plans again.

I’m not sure whether I’m the only one with this, but the moments I actually enjoyed most were the “quiet moments” of this series. Moments where nothing happened, and the characters were just killing time. I couldn’t care less about all of Haruhi’s adventures, and her need to meet up with strange things, and yet I liked seeing Kyon and Itsuki playing a random board-game; I liked how Yuki was alone in a room, while in the next room the local drama club was practicing. Heck, I even liked Kyon as he kept thinking about how hot Mikuru was. What I didn’t like was when Haruhi would jump into the club-room to announce her umpth idea.

Really, this turned out to be quite a good series, only with the “bad main character”-syndrome. When the second season arrives, I hope that the creators will continue to build upon what they’ve established now, and keep their focus as much away from Haruhi as possible.

37 Responses

  1. kanami says:

    I think you will be happy with the second season, since the book it will be based on seems to be The Vanishment of Haruhi Suzumiya – so yeah, not so much Haruhi in that one :p . Also, it leaves the filler-ish nature of the second part of the first series and goes back to plot and character development.

  2. Windspirit says:

    I was actually bored as hell in the first part, I didn’t feel the character developed at all (and I ain’t a sucker at all for character development) and just weren’t interested to random baseball, space battles and Phoenix Wright-like detective story.

    But I actually liked the second part, where the story starts to develop a little. I enjoyed the talks between Itsuki and Kyon and was quite attracted to the philosophical theories on Haruhi being God and what are her powers and the possible world-reset. (And God Knows that I LOVED Haruhi’s concert.)

    I was kind of disappointed at the end, because I felt that the story just “started”, and it needs moar. But yeah, KyoAni are hardcore fans of Key (they announced a Clannad sequel), so Haruhi II is probably nothing but a myth.

  3. RmX says:

    Well the fillers were in the novels too. And don’t tell me that the EPIC SPACE BATTLE and concert episodes weren’t awesome. =D

  4. Eonir says:

    I have to admit I also enjoyed this series, despite this whole moe-ism. My favourite part was that mysterious island…

    Come to think of it, MoSH is mere a ‘slightly moe’ series, when compared to Lucky Star(which is not that bad…when you set aside the moe). I know, since I survived all of the 26 eps.

  5. psgels psgels says:

    Windspirit: oh, I watched the episodes in their real order, and not in the order that they aired, so the first seven episodes basically are the ones that reveal all the major things about Haruhi.

    Oh, and I wouldn’t worry about the second season not coming. Lucky Star was so chockful of Haruhi-references, which were quite annoying but do suggest that Kyoani hasn’t forgotten this series at all.

    Oh, and I didn’t think too much of the concert and space-battle, by the way. They were nice enough to watch, but I wouldn’t consider them among the highlights of this series.

  6. IcyStorm says:

    I heard that in the light novels, Haruhi isn’t as an arrogant and annoying, and she gets better as the series progresses.

  7. nahrub says:

    i don’t think that they can keep their focus away from haruhi coz, duh, the title itself called suzumiya haruhi… something.

    still, the show’s a bit overrated imo. it’s good, but not that good.

  8. Venneh says:

    I watched in broadcast order, and I think you get a better experience that way (actual order is just… eh. Also, I have an issue with the fact that half the series is technically one episode).

    But yeah. It’s a good series, but it’s not the be-all end-all of anime like everyone was making it out to be.

  9. marmot says:

    Yeah it did really feel like only half the series was worth watching. I think one of the problems was the episode order, it just seemed to be trying too hard to be clever but suddenly inserting a random baseball episode (a perfectly enjoyable if pointless episode) when important plot details are being revealed was irritating. While they shouldn’t necessarily have made it chronological, episode 14 made it seem like they lived happily ever after in love when we know this isn’t the case, if they had simply stuck episode 9 last in airing then it would deserve a lot more hype.

  10. marmot says:

    *THE hype
    it doesn’t need any more of that.
    though the really big gender bender movement for it is hilarious.

  11. Windspirit says:

    Yeah. Just as Jason says, when the fans are starting to entertain themselves, you feel that it’s getting derailed. And we’re starting to really, REALLY need some MOAR. But… yeah, Haruhi II is a myth, it’s just a tool to advertise KyoAnimu projects.

  12. alida says:

    “Haruhi, however, got on my nerves every time she appeared. She also brought out the worst in other characters, because especially Mikuru can’t stop squealing when Haruhi is up to one of her plans again.”

    Yes, finally – someone agrees with me. I absolutely DESPISE the concept of how the world basically revolves around that arrogant brat. Seriously, I couldn’t care less if the world exploded after anyone angers her. I would rather let the world perish than worship that, err, person.

    Actually, Kyon is annoying too. Seriously, he can’t stand up for himself at all. Just don’t go to the stupid club room if you don’t want to, Kyon!

  13. kanami says:

    Just in case, in my comment I was talking about the chronological order, not the airing order.

  14. Papilo says:

    Yuo are not alone when comes to runaway from excessive moe-stuff, to me a good story are greater than a cute appealing character design forcing you to hug and squish and moeeee. =/

    So, I just watch one episode of MoHS and i can’t see myself watching Lucky Star. I know that a anime moeness isn’t enough to deny a good story, but I need something to separate water from wine. When the wine ends we start to drink watered wine. ^^

    That said, I guess I need to try again MoHS. =)

  15. GBShaw says:

    The main story-arc of the second season will most likely be the adaptation of ‘The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi’ which is Nagato-centric.

  16. yoshi927 says:

    I disagree on some points of the review, but I agree that it’s quite overrated. Still, it’s a fun show. I’m a diehard Phoenix Wright player, so that island joke really clicked with me.

  17. Wyrdwad says:

    It’s a shame you watched the series in chronological order (and even more of a shame that that’s how it was packaged on the DVDs!), as it really loses a lot of its charm that way. Take, for example, the baseball episode. In broadcast order, this was episode four… and because it came so early in the series, it was one of the GREATEST EPISODES EVER… the characters were constantly discussing “the event” that transpired, and very intentionally refraining from giving away what this event actually WAS… only that it was something incredibly significant that had a HUGE impact on EVERYTHING.

    Basically, the “second half of the series” SHOULD have been interspersed with the “first half,” as that’s how it aired, and that’s what makes all the filler episodes interesting: they exist partially for character development, but they also partially exist to sort of “hype up” the main plot, and make you more and more intrigued to find out what actually happened.

    Needless to say, the event itself – Melancholy V – was the final episode in broadcast order. And while I actually really, REALLY like the final episode in chronological order (it’s probably my favorite in the series!), I think the actual end of the main plot makes for a better finale.

    Also, I thought Haruhi was a really interesting and well-developed character. I liked her a lot, in fact. The flaws in her personality that you point out are really a pretty major part of her charm. But, to each his own, I suppose!

    Either way, I’m glad you (mostly) liked the show. It really is a pretty excellent anime.

    -Tom

  18. alida says:

    Seriously, Tom, – if they had that much of a tactic, why did they not NAME THE EPISODES IN THAT ORDER INSTEAD!!?

  19. Gottis says:

    I must say I could never finish the series. Not because of the quirky order or anything, but the MOE. D= I hate that, really, really hate that, and even if redhaired boob girl got more development later, she scared me off enough in the first episode (which really is what episode in the anime?) to kill my interest for the anime.
    (Then of course, with my double standards, had it been a boy, I most definitely would have stuck around, because CUTE~! …Shounen-ai/yaoi fangirl, can you tell? >_> )

  20. Archer says:

    overall i loved this series,of course the story was not perfect maybe a few flaws here and there but the characters were the main thing i liked about this anime even if some were representing various stereotypes
    Kyon was great,i found him very interesting from the first episode with his sarcastic nature and the his voice actor is one of my favorites ( some characters of his i like : Gintoki from Gintama,Mayama from Honey and clover…)
    back to Haruhi this anime is a combination of different genres of anime but i think it does a great job in almost each one of them,i especially enjoyed the more slice of life oriented episodes,the more quiet episodes but i cannot deny that i like almost each of this series episodes and i even watched this anime twice in the course of a year (i rarely do that even if the anime is a short one) so even if not everyone thinks it is that great and people think it is overrated (everything is overrated and underrated in the end :) ) i still will be waiting for the second season that will be eventually released :D

  21. FireChick says:

    Hello. I know this is a bit off-topic but I think you should check out this anime here. It’s downloadable in 4 different languages (including Japanese).

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-03-28/megumi-anime-about-girl-abducted-by-n-korea-posted

    It’s about a girl named Yokota Megumi who was kidnapped by North Koreans in 1977 (true story). The quality may be low but I think you might like it.

  22. Wyrdwad says:

    alida: Well, if you watch the show in its original broadcast form, the next episode previews show that the “randomized” order was obviously VERY intentional, as the dialogue generally consists of Haruhi and Kyon arguing over what the next episode number is (with Kyon using the broadcast order, and Haruhi using the chronological order). All the more reason to wonder why the show got reordered for the DVD releases… I suspect a blunder on Bandai’s part.

    All I know is, having watched the show in broadcast order originally, that was VERY, VERY OBVIOUSLY the intended order. I have zero doubt in my mind about that. And anyone who didn’t watch the show in broadcast order was honestly missing out.

    -Tom

  23. Wyrdwad says:

    Oh, and to answer your question directly… the episode names were left in chronological order as PART of this “tactic.” The way the show was originally structured, you could easily use the episode names and the next-episode previews to figure out what the chronological order was SUPPOSED to be… but that’s not how it was presented.

    No, it was definitely very intentional.

    -Tom

  24. CherylHew says:

    If Suzumiya Haruhi stops being like a *CENSORED* I’ll watch Season 2 =/ Seriously the one only thing that made me stop watching was how I LOATHED Haruhi’s character. Seeing her on screen made me seeth so much I couldn’t go past episode 5. And then the fandom made it even worse =_=

  25. Pegah says:

    I agree that the series should be watched in the order it was aired, because i can see how incredibly boring it would be to watch it any other way. if all the interesting stuff was taken care of in the first half and the filler type episodes marathoned towards the end, i would have stopped watching too. this way it captured your attention throughout the whole series.

  26. ryvrdrgn14 says:

    I really do enjoy the series a lot and I’m looking forward to a second season if there is one. Looking at the larger picture, everything does go well together.

    Like Kyon, you enjoyed the quiet parts which was like a break from Haruhi’s antics. I guess you did relate to the setup of the characters in some way. ^_^

    I pursued the series in the following order:

    1) Watched broadcast order. I didn’t know it was in the wrong order at first so I did get confused.
    2) Wikipedia’d and watched in chronological order. Ah! Much better! That’s how it went.
    3) Read the novels. Lotsa stories and details there that really helped flesh things out.
    4) Watched the series in chronological order again. Much, much better. ^_^
    5) Listened to the Character Image songs and Drama CDs. Lotsa references and insights in the lyrics after you’ve done all of the above ^_^;

    Anyway, it’s not the only show that I like, but it does set itself apart after absorbing most of the available material. Right now, I’d have to put it right beside my classic favorite, Urusei Yatsura. ^_^

  27. alida says:

    Tom – I never claimed that they weren’t intentionally done, which, as you said above, obviously was. I’m just asking why they never packaged in that order (seriously, who cares about the previews in DVDs – do they even have previews?) – if, as you also claimed before, gave the series a little bit more “sugar and spice?”

  28. kal says:

    Its strange to hate a character for being annoying/arrogant/any-negative-traits. Its not wrong to hate a real person for that, but a character is like that because she/he need to be. If Haruhi became more mild, then the story won’t happened.

    Anyway, she just genki.

  29. Sam K says:

    I agree with you about the scenes in the clubroom, where they were just sitting around relaxing and getting on with the grind of the summer/winter. I adored the scene with Nagato sitting reading as there was some speech learning class on. I don’t know why, but they seemed really nostalgic and alluring. I hope to hell the next series keeps some of this as it will be a real shame to lose the feeling they give off.

    However, heres the bombshell, I liked Haruhi. I think the show needed something like her, arrogant, and even annoying. She gradually changed but having the contrast between her loud, irritating moments allows the quaint moments to be all the more rewarding.

    Anxiously awaiting the next installment, though, terrified it will be a disaster.

  30. fred says:

    Nice job failing to mention any of the metaphors & deeper meanings in the show…
    Not to mention the fantastic cinematography.

  31. Kimi-chwan^^ says:

    Your summary of Haruhi no Yuutsu is great! I also liked Kyon, Itsuki, and Yuki, but they weren’t enough to make me love the anime like I thought I would. Even without Haruhi’s presence, I disliked Mikuru. However, like you, I felt that the biggest reason for me hating the series was the fact that I can’t stand that controlling bitch, Haruhi Suzumiya! Here are the top four reasons I disliked her:
    1. She’s NOT a genius like the fans made her out to be (she acts especially impulsive in the computer game episode). She gets good grades and has an above average level of intelligence, but she’s not spectacularly intelligent by anime standards.
    2. NEVER at any point in the series does she redeem the hateful demeanor we are forced to endure for 13 or so episodes. She’s a flat character! She never undergoes any NOTICABLE growth in maturity, her “visit to the baseball game” experience was thought-provoking, but is only mentioned once and is never discussed or even contemplated again in the series, and she never does ANYTHING of any merit when interesting stuff happens (Yuki does most of the legwork).
    3. I have a couple friends that were sexually abused in their childhood and therefore, I found her repeated molestations of Mikuru incredibly tasteless and VERY hard to watch. What Haruhi does to Mikuru is NOT something a lovable tsundere would do, that’s something a convicted sex offender would do.
    4. She’s a cliché stock character! The excessively hyperactive and determined stock character has been done before and has been done a lot better (Luffy [One Piece], Tomo Takino [Azumanga Daioh], etc.).
    Why do people like Haruhi so much?! Note: I have not yet read the manga, so I am only criticizing the ANIME version of Haruhi Suzumiya. Overall, the seiyuus were good for the most part, the art of the series was pretty good, and the idea of the series is interesting, but I felt that Haruhi’s over-the-top tsundere personality and her freaking annoying cult following ruined the entire series for me. In short, the anime Haruhi no Yuutsu had potential, but turned out to be disappointing. :(

  32. DP says:

    The reason why people are over-hyped is since they have already read the novels. The first part is interesting, but what I don’t get is why you all say Haruhi hasn’t any char development. She has. Why don’t you watch ep 9 and find out.

    Or maybe, read the translated Light Novels at Baka-Tsuki. I’ll see you revise your statement, kimi-chwan.

  33. asddass says:

    I fail to understand how the “filler episodes” weren’t awesome. I mean the space fight? The rock song?

    But I guess that happens when you hate a character so much you need to ignore everything else. I actually have no problem witht hat.

    The only thing I find ridiculous is calling her a flat character, because she definitely is more complex and original than most character’s I’ve ever seen. And if you fail to see that, then maybe you should watch it again or, maybe, think about it a little.

    Clichè character? Don’t make me laugh. I’m assuming you skipped all the scenes where her actual view of the world was discussed between Kyon and Koizumi or even Haruhi herself.

    If you see nothing more than “Lol hyperactive girl molesting moe girl”, then you should perhaps go back to true moe shows. Do you even understand WHY she does that stuff?

    Of course, I’m speaking as a Haruhi fan, but don’t think I’m blinded by cute appearances and funny scenes. I know that she’s a horribly flawed character pretty well. In fact, that’s why I like her.

  34. yea wtf says:

    “Yes, finally – someone agrees with me. I absolutely DESPISE the concept of how the world basically revolves around that arrogant brat. Seriously, I couldn’t care less if the world exploded after anyone angers her. I would rather let the world perish than worship that, err, person. ”

    EXACTLY. Finally someone agrees with me. Haruhi is oh so special. Great. I didn’t find developement in character very compelling or interesting, and the problem is that it was hardly there. Haruhi is such a conceited protagonist, as fun loving and random as she is, she never really interested me. I’d rather watch FLCL for “random anime.”

  35. yea wtf says:

    “Yes, finally – someone agrees with me. I absolutely DESPISE the concept of how the world basically revolves around that arrogant brat. Seriously, I couldn’t care less if the world exploded after anyone angers her. I would rather let the world perish than worship that, err, person. ”

    EXACTLY. Finally someone agrees with me. Haruhi is oh so special. Great. I didn’t find developement in character very compelling or interesting, and the problem is that it was hardly there. Haruhi is such a conceited protagonist, as fun loving and random as she is, she never really interested me. I’d rather watch FLCL for “random anime.”

  36. meikyuu says:

    I agree with some of the comments above me. I like Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, but sometimes Haruhi annoys the crap out of me with her arrogance, I don’t always understand why so many people like her, she’s not that likeable, and I feel bad for poor Mikuru. :|

  37. esdee says:

    yes, i think haruhi is a bit annoying and i thought she was funny and adorable at the first place– but it turned out that a title character can be a villain. oh well…

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Anonymous2028258
so i just recently rewatched fullmetal panic fumoffu and i gotta say that this is easily one of Kyo ani's best works. It's such a surprise that this was their first anime; it's a damn good romance comedy
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Lol I love B-movie type stuff, because the rules are off.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was the only person who watched Mazinkaiser skl and shin mazinger and skullman.
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser Takeshi Koike really wanted to really sell it as a grindhouse feature and I ate that shit up; I really dug the tone he was going for.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: It was strange seeing that Goemon short, much as I enjoyed it, thats the goriest I seen lupin get.
Anonymous2026379
Megalo box is pure retro while lupin is a mix of old and new...and you're right; people just think they can't jump right into it. But that's why more people should be talking about it; to let the masses know that you don't need a starting point to get into the Lupin franchise
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a massive fan of the devilman manga and I thought devilman crybaby was better than it.
Anonymous2026379
90's-esque throwback feeling shows like lupin and megalo box have been giving me
Anonymous2026379
Luoin part 5 is definitely mixing the best of new and old. Honestly, I've been having a blast with it as well as this generally 90
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think the problem is, people see lupin as this long thing they can't get into, when really its so episodic/standalone mostly you can pick up and watch.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And of course getting the best bits out of old and new.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*visual style
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a fan of this hybrid old and new style, megalobox does it too, mine fujiko aswell and casshern sins.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was surprised by how well the Fujiko mine show came together in the end.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'll be interested in picking up more facts about thrm.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Come think of it, Akira Kurosawa did some old western (eastern?) in Russian, that had an Ainu in it.
Anonymous2026379
Asirpa is sooooo adorable.....almost feels patronizing to say that about her due to how badass she is
Anonymous2026379
What makes Fujiko work so well as this sexy icon is that she isn't just sexy: she's smart as shit and uses that sexiness to dominate and control her opponents (similar to bayonetta) rather than be chained by the objectification of her opponents (and the viewers for that matter)
Anonymous2026379
I wonder what other obscure cameos we may get this season. And yea you're right about some of Lupin's potentially sexist traits being assuaged by his level of cool and the genuine respect he shows a good deal of the women he has encountered throughout the series
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yet still a fun film at the same time.
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser Yea, mamo was a pretty dark element introduced to the lupin franchise; and considering the tone of the gravestone of Jigen, it makes sense he would cameo there
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Help I want to kidnap Asirpa =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I'm probably as surprised as you, at finding someone to talk to about Lupin on here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: And through comparing/contrasting the jigen grave stone and Fujiko mine, with some of the sillier older ones, it shows the Lupin characters are flexible enough to work both in a darker AND sillier context.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*character
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Fujiko is precisely how a fanservicey character should work and how built in/essential it is to her haracter, without becoming an irritant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: By all means Lupin himself shouldn't be a character we like, much like Bond, but like Bond theres a coolness to the character that allows us to love him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Another great thing about Lupin is how it uses its 60s cool to get away with what would normally probably be considered fairly sexist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I had a big smile on my face when Mamo made a cameo appearance at the end of one of the recent ones and thats because I remember the Lupin Mamo movie was one of those first anime that I watched about 20 years aago.
Anonymous2026379
not to mention that its one of the few anime this season that actually knows how to utilize dialogue to explore flesh out its characters rather than exposition or contrivance: looking at you darling in the franxx
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser-Eoghan Nice fun facts; but yea Lupin III is a series that has always had an amazing sense of pacing and adventure, traits that are definitely on display this season
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Its a huge franchise too so I'm often never sure where to go next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: You may or may not know this, but the voice actor for solid snake voiced Lupin in one of the dubs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I watched a few episodes of the Italy set lupin show too .
Its a fun franchise due to its cast but its something I have to follow irregularly, lest it get repetitive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Fun fact, guy who directed the gold of babylon film was a famous B-movie noir director in the 60s.
Lenlo
Dont trust anything written by the original SAO author. Everything is his fault. Kirito is not in this series.
Lenlo
Even the original SAO author has little to do with it, which is why its actually good
Lenlo
So SAO Alt is basically completely removed from the rest of SAO
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Lupin is one of those things I dip in and out of, whatever part of the franchise it is. I've seen birdcage kingdom, Mamo, cagliostro, nostradamus, Jigens grave stone, mine fujiko and the recent Goemon centred special.
Anonymous2026379
it's a damn shame not a lot of ppl are talkig about/watching lupin the third this season
Kaiser-Eoghan
But for all I know with that team behind it, its an improvement, but theres probably not much point in me watching as I dropped the first season after less than 10 episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
See how he attempts to seduce me into watching something related to sword art.
Lenlo
Huh... I didnt know the writer for SAO Alt was written by the Kino's Journey creator and produced by the Flip Flappers people. Explains a lot
Lenlo
I wish I knew what you meant by shaman girls, and I cant wait
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Oh I know Leskinen. May he find his Japanese Shaman girls one day. But seeing as I know the story I wanna experience it differently.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its even set in hokkaido, Korean/Japanese director, Japanese cast, Ken Watanabe is in it: https://letterboxd.com/film/unforgiven-2013/
Lenlo
Also, I love the ED. Really, 2 episodes in, I love S;G all over again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: really? They remade Unforgiven in Japanese?
Lenlo
its*
Lenlo
Like... is good.
Lenlo
But your missing out on the cult of Leskinen. The engrish is actually one of my favorite parts
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Meanwhile I am happily waiting for the dub.
Lenlo
Dangit... I have to wait another week for Steins;Gate 0 now. I cant do this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Japanese remake of unforgiven had ainu people in it.
Anonymous2025797
Also I wonder if budget is distributed according to the director, some animes will spend more in the first episode. Some will spend more in the last ones. It's subjective, but if it's like all business it is looking for the better result at the minimum expense. Hence why I believe Berserk was made the way it did.
Anonymous2025797
@Kaiser-Eoghan - Ideally a story should be as long as it needs. But reality seems that a number of episodes is decided before production. And so you either have to stretch or cut material. Kinda like that 300 page manga of Les Miserables, is simply unfeasible translating that book into that few pages.
KTravlos
Oberstein was a great character.
KTravlos
I actually feel Aidan can do a good job on it. Sometimes been too exposed to the material may lead to clouded eyes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though I'm surprised by how I unexpectedly laughed at wotaku, I do wonder if later on it will include any slight drama elements to sustain interest.
Kaiser-Eoghan
OMO; OBERsteins; Gate =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
From watching episode 2 of golden kamuy, yeah, the source material definitely is lifting this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm going to have to wait and see on steins; gate 0, it is encouraging to here this might be darker , at the same time I remember having to sit through too much goofy humour in the first one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was actually surprised, that, while rare, there were some moments of humour, that lightened it for me.
AidanAK47
Throughout the entire series I expected Oberstein to pull some inevitable double cross. And was shocked when he never did.
Amagi
@Kaiser: Agree with Oberstein. I think antagonists are es important as the mains in fiction and I loved this guy, he's perfect for series like these.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Galactic heroes was an example of where when watching it, when big death scenes occured, I would make noooooo and shouting noises at the screen while clenching my fist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I love characters like Oberstein, shrewd, clever, but done right to where I can believe it, not characters like, say Lelouch .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd be concerned if the new galactic heroes series skimps on the violence, that kind of thing needs to be in there, in most shows/films and shown to be explicit, consequences need to be shown.
Amagi
*about, not with
Amagi
Sadly, most original 2+ cours series I know feel dragged whereas many 1 cours originals could have needed ~3 more episodes. Talking with series that have an actual plot of course.
Amagi
I really like the 13 episodes thingy for originals but I wish there would be more 26 episodes series, especially for adaptions.
Amagi
@Kaiser: I agree. Nothing kills my interest faster than formularic episodes and repetition.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In general I think 50 episodes would be the most I'd watch for an anime, 39 seems ideal.
Amagi
Or worse and the romance drama is the main plot and it's Kiznaiver all over again, while the rest is just flavor to make the romances more forced since they're the MCs are only teens and such. Dunno but I can never bring myself to care about this kind of stuff.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though better 110 episodes of galactic heroes than a long shounen that just repeats itself.
Amagi
Speaking of recent episodes, I unironically thing that FranXX's world (building) is pretty interesting (although I hope those klaxxosaurusses will be more than just random cannon fodder) but I doubt the series will ever get to the main plot again the next time.
Amagi
Same here. It was really the only time I did this. I am usually exhausted by just thinking about marathoning long series. It's the reason why I won't get into FMP for the new series either. LotGH was an exception since I found it easily to watch for some reason.
SuperMario
Man, just image burning through 110 episodes of it and my spirit fades away
Amagi
Watched that whole series ages ago.
Amagi
Just watched the first three Neue These episodes and I surprinsingly liked it. Thought I would hate it due to being an OVA fan, and I still prefer the old designs by far but overall it's pretty good. I think I might even prefer this version of the first battle, but I have to rewatch the old one I guess.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also while I can't remember which episode, Yang picks up a book with the author of the series' name on it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Arslan feels so lightweight by contrast/comparison.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I think, given your knowledge KTtravlos, that a series review of the new galactic heroes season would probably benefit from you writing it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring up the music in my earlier comment, because I can understand your reservations regarding the music choice in the remake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And certainly one of those shows, that going back to the first episode after finishing, gives a strong perspective just on how evolving the series was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*despite me not
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite not being monarchist , because the characters were human moreso than cartoon characters I couldn't hate on Reinhard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: I suppose by the time it got to Julian's arc, I was surprised they were still bothering to fight but the fact that they were essentially the last bastion of their beliefs made it special.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Sometimes when I just finish a show, its a case where I HAVE to jump online immediately after and excitedly ramble out an essay on it.
niello
ugh democracy
KTravlos
@Kaiser ultimately LOGH for me was a decisive point in my political life, as I think it made the best defense of democracy in any form I have seen. And it worked partly because the opponent was presented in the best possible incarnation (Rienhard). Yang's continued adherence to democracy, despite recongising its flaws, helped me avoid a personal descent into authoritarian politics.
KTravlos
@Kaiser. I am happy you had a good experience. I watched the prequels a while after the main show and I was happy because it was great getting back to those characters. The prequels were also great in fleshing the setting and the characters. So yes, take your time and a break. That way the prequels will be like visiting a place you liked again after a while.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@KTtravlos: I have some other stuff to get through before watching the galactic heroes prequel though =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
YES according to discord poster I'm not a millenial!
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for overposting. I have always always being an incredibly verbose person.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter; Not that I oppose captilistically made for a buck cinema, it can be entertaining yes, but I set a standard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: As open as I am to trash cinema, I consider the resident evil films, like the superhero ones, anti-art.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can understand why people don't like Villier, but he did I think work as a device to add extra tension.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel some release at finishing but at the same time sadness at saying goodbye to the show and its characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
, showing its age.
But for something of this length, it kept itself up far better than most long shows and I feel the length its somewhat justified.

On another note….as corny as the third ending theme is, I got the feels listening to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But while the first 50 odd episodes were an easy job for me aswell as all of the 4th season and some of the late 3rd season made it difficult for me to pull myself away from it, the dialogue even though often well observed did become difficult to follow at times and somewhere in the middle theres a stretch of episodes, bar some moments that feel a bit of an endurance test and the animation is at
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its attention to detail I felt was at its strongest in the documentary and the series dedication to filling the view in on its world building/fictional history.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I admired the scope, ambition of this series and the battles eventually grew on me and I was surprised by just how visceral the melee combat got which suited me perfectly. At the same time for all the strategy and action, I found myself more in it for the story, characters and intrigue/politicking. Those battles, due in part to their music choices, had an epic feel to them
Kaiser-Eoghan
In the end the characters stood out for me the best were Reinhard, Oberstein (for being essentially the amazing man with the plan), Reuntal, Kircheis and Rubinsky, I warmed up to Julian, Yang and Schenkop. When important deaths occurred, they felt highly dramatic, in four cases emotionally effecting for me .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also, KTtravlos, thank you for pushing me toward watching the original legend of the galactic heroes, my opinion on the series is largely a mixed one, but by the end I felt I’d watched something rewarding and I’m happy its crossed off my list and I should have gotten round to it sooner.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm probably the oldest here, being 32. Which apparently makes me around Yang-wenli's age, which according to someone means I'm middle aged .
Kaiser-Eoghan
To the discord guy who brought it up, its difficult not for me to be political, my father was an activist and is a Marxist , I ended up becoming a contradiction a semi-agnostic, but spiritually inclined/tolerant socialist with internationalist ideology.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Ends in very cliffhanger/abrupt indy way though and the things weakness/how to kill thems too easy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I liked how it explains nothing also and the creature design and how it visual communicates to the audience.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: While I won't say anything, a character death is handled in what I considered a schmaltzy manner. There is a particularly headscratching decision the characters make that you'll either rationalize or hate, but it leads to one of the tenser set pieces later on.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Quiet place has a good idea at its backbone, that they use sign language in the film to communicate and occassional whispers adds to it, it and the silence allows for a mood to be effectively communicated. It does have jump scares, I wasn't annoyed by them, but I never felt the film required them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read the discord, if you ever need to ask a question relating to film, come to me about it, I will without fail be able to answer 9 times out of 10.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was adequately amused by the first episode of wotaku, but found the male lead funnier, which I'm attributing to him be more deadpan.
Lenlo
We found a convient weekend for everyone
Kaiser-Eoghan
*watching
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would also float the idea of recommendation podcasts every now and then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will listen to the podcast more in full later. But I was surprised after asking/suggesting it on the discord, that it came so soon.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am thinking of re-watching gasaraki and ai yori aoshi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: Perhaps after a while of watch the anime I will simply jump on to the manga.
Vonter
I watched Resident Evil: Vendetta yesterday. It's incredible dumb but kind of fun. I do wonder if in terms of entertainment are like the best videogame based movies. Since it plays like a videogame, it's based on a videogame and is more or less in line with the tone the series has had for a while.
niello
It's such a shame that Golden Kamuy art direction is such a train wreck.
KTravlos
and for the sake of Clausewitz there is clinical term for what Reinhard did. It is called "defeat in detail". Napoleon was a master of it. Proper way to defeat it , is to order the threatened force to retreat to a point where other allied forces are converging. The enemy will either have to retreat, or fight at a disadvantage. The 1813 and 1814 campaigns against Napoleon are examples of that.
KTravlos
Episode 2 of LOGGH: Der Neue Thesis was much better than the first. The music is still an issue, but Yang was well portrayed. I do think there is lack of the directors in showing the cruelty of war, like the first one did. We will see.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Still need to see his short films and black Peter.
Amagi
@Anon: I already know the manga and enjoy it, think the anime is a good adaption so far. Feels good to see a series about video games that are actually just games and romance without tsunderes, tons of blushing or unworldly naive harem girls.
Anonymous2016456
the anime
Anonymous2016456
how do you guys think of wotakoi?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Hereditary sounds pretty promising here
Kaiser-Eoghan
Forman's an interesting case, when you look at the huge disconnect from his early films from the 60s and then what he went on to make.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, unfortunately I am not a fan of country music so Nashville didn't appeal to me =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And before Jack kept playing the same role over and over.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Aside from Courtney Love's presence, Larry Flynt is an excellent film. I love the custom camera tricks Kubrick used in Lyndon , dog day afternoon suceeded for me because it did so much more than being just a bank rob film. I wish Spielberg would return to his pre-90s films .
SuperMario
Cuckoo's Nest reminds me of the great 1975 Oscar Best Picture, which for me was Oscar's greatest line-up. The line-ups for that year were: Cuckoo Nest (winner), Nashville, Barry Landon, Dog Day Afternoon and Jaws
SuperMario
@Kaiser: RIP the man. I've seen 2 of his, Amadeus and Cuckoo Nest. Both great but they were more because of the strength of the source
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Milos forman has died =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
Indeed the character designs in steins; gate have seen changes....shockingly mayuri's chest is larger than Daru's ;)
KTravlos
I can live with that. Interested to see what made you reserved.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: you won't agree with my series review then. I have a lot of reservations on VE
KTravlos
Also I finished Violet Evergarden. This was an exceptional series in my book.
KTravlos
the two characters. Finally the battle soundtrack was simply wrong.

I am going to watch it because it is LOGH. And frankly after watching the new one I felt the fact that the old one was dated technical wise (but not in music). But at least on comparison of first episodes, the old one did a better job at giving depth to Reinhard and Keircheis.
KTravlos
well I watched the first episode of the new LOGH and then watched the first episode of the older version. The update in the art is good..but. If the old one was too talky, this one is too boom boom. I also felt that they did not sue the time well to establish Reihard and Kircheis well. Especially the removal of some lines that were in the first episode of the original, really took away a lot from
SuperMario
@Amagi: I can see your point but what a premise for Golden Kamuy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although golden kamuy is labeled seinen, which gives me some more hope for it.
SuperMario
@Amagi: agree with you about remembering stuffs you've watched. For me, it's always until the second watch that I can remember the plot or characters clearly. Otherwise, all will get hazy like a dream
Anonymous2011116
@Anon Watch a few eps and then male an informed decision based on that; I find the storytelling to be a bit weak but you might not feel the same
AidanAK47
@Anon, If you can ignore the rather odd fanservice and sex symbolism it's actually a pretty enjoyable show with good animation whose story has been getting better.
Amagi
Think it's always the best to watch the first episode since other people might hate something you will love or vice versa.
Amagi
@Anon: For me it still feels like Kiznaiver but I think it really depends on how much you care about the characters and teen relationship deama.
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