Posted by psgels on 28 September 2008 with categories: Anime Reviews


Well, so it’s finally time for me to review this thing. Since I didn’t get the chance to review the first season, this review is about both seasons together. Code Geass is your typical Sunrise Mecha Trainwreck. It can be compared to the bastard child of Death Note and Gundam 00 gone horribly wrong, and the typical case of “the bigger they are, the harder they fall”. I personally consider it the most overrated series of both 2007 and 2008, but admittedly, it’s not an entirely bad series.

The big problem with this series is that it wants to create a sensation a little too badly, up to the point where it uses bad writing, just to create an as big shock as possible. The series starts out nicely enough, though. It builds up properly, but very quickly, the plotholes start popping up, one after the other. Too often to characters just “run into each other”, or happen to be at the wrong place and wrong time. A few instances of these plotholes would of course be okay, but this series just keeps using them, over and over.

The series could have made up for it in terms of characters, but even there things went wrong once they started “developing”, or at least, when they’re supposed to. More often than not, the characters suddenly start acting completely out of character, whatever happens to be convenient for the story, rather then what would be the most natural thing to do. People don’t switch sides because of complex political reasons, but more because the creators want them to.

To add to that, the creators also have a very nasty habit with killing off their characters. If you see an important character kicking the bucket, you can be 75% sure that he or she is somehow going to magically reappear again, later in the series. It becomes rather anticlimactic, when you just know that a character that dies is going to come back anyway (pretty much the dragonball-syndrome).

Then there’s an issue with the setting of this series, which mostly pops up in the first half of this series, in the form of its incredibly nationalistic messages: Japan is being oppressed by the evil Brits and Americans, and it’s up to the main character to vanquish the oppression. The second season also happily continues this tradition by portraying the Chinese as a bunch of fascistic pigs. It’s full of unnecessary stereotypes that make no sense.

So, with all of this criticism, why do you want to watch this series in the first place? Simple: the entertainment factor. The climaxes, badly written as they may be, do try their best to make a huge spectacle with what they can do. This is a typical series that you want to watch if you want some brainless action, and nothing deep or well written. You can mock the ridiculous plotholes and cheese and at the same time enjoy the action scenes for what they are.

But yeah, that doesn’t excuse the fact that Code Geass is a whole mess in terms of storytelling, and wants too much too fast. The character-development is ridiculous, it’s full of plotholes and unable to really create something memorable (not in a good way, at least). I’ve read somewhere that even the director thought that this series has turned crappy, so I hope that he learned from his mistakes and that his next series will be a “bit” more solid.

Storytelling: 7/10
Characters: 7/10
Production-Values: 8/10
Setting: 7/10

96 Responses

  1. Eldar says:

    It may be an unintentional part on the creators, but all the japanese characters are portrayed in a horribly negative light either as enemy collaborators, incompetent fools or just gullible sheep who buy into their enemy’s propaganda and turn on their leader solely on the claim that he has magical mind control voodoo.

  2. Denizen says:

    Let’s see how Kurogane no Linebarel turns out,
    then.

    Well, Code Geass cannot be described as anything other than a trainwreck, but it was the most entertaining trainwreck around. I thoroughly enjoyed this show, just thank god it’s finally over.

  3. Camario says:

    I can agree with your ratings, and also with the following statement.

    “Code Geass is a whole mess in terms of storytelling, and wants too much too fast”

    That is the biggest flaw, really, and indeed, entertainment factor is the most this series has going for it. That I will not deny.

    Anything else I could say would just be nitpicking (see below) or just having a different opinion, but I’m glad that there’s some reasonable overlap in our positions.

    “I’ve read somewhere that even the director thought that this series has turned crappy”

    If you mean the infamous interview,that wasn’t exactly what he said, though I suppose you could more or less read that between the lines if you try (he almost quit over production problems in season one and disagreed with the unexpected time slot change for season two, which prevented a direct continuation of the cliffhanger and so on).

  4. Eonir says:

    This series could have been such a beautiful story. It had potential. A second Death Note, a second Gankutsuou… Argh, I hate it when good stuff is turned into garbage.

    But it turned out to be a mishmash, with explosions and swords, superpowers and ninjas, and one thousand plotholes!

    There is so many plotholes that a lack of plot should be the natural state. A lack of lack of plot is unnatural here.

  5. Archer says:

    it is incredible how many people think this anime is so amazigly good and loved the ending so much,i thought the ending was ok and as i just read a review on mal i wondered if i was watching a different anime all this time,i admit this anime is very entertaining to watch but that is all,an anime needs more to be considered memorable
    about your review i think most of the faults you mentioned can be found in the 2nd season(i found it to be a lot weaker than the 1st),also it is not like the director is the only one responsible and he already has worked on some very interesting projects(Planetes,Infinite Ryvius) anyway i too bored and sleepy to see how many positive reviews this anime has on other blogs but i bet this is one of the very few,people love it and i would not really mind to see some other anime series like this one,that really entertain you (at least one a year,to many would be bad)

  6. Reiter says:

    When this series first started, I also thought its ultra-nationalistic pro-Japanese message was a bit much. It seemed like the creators were trying to rewrite history with this show (and in effect, they did, since the whole crux of it is America lost or never fought the Revolutionary War and Britain was allowed to expand its power across the entire globe). What disturbed me was how they tried to paint Japan as the innocent victim in a way that kinda swept their misdeeds during WWII under the rug (since in the world of CG, WWII never happened at all).

    Thankfully (or as a side effect), the plot segues into more conventional anime territory with its soap opera antics and action scenes. And the shipping. My lord, the crack shipping that resulted from this show. Lulu X Anyone became a genre in and of itself, heh.

    The China-bashing in R2 did kind of bother me too, but it was so silly and over the top, I doubt anyone could take it seriously as some sort of straight-faced social or political commentary (I mean, CG’s China still has evil, manipulative eunuch-Communists who wear blue lipstick… who are ruled by a monarchy in the form of a loli, which made zero sense… Zero, ha!).

    CG was just good ol’ fashioned, brainless entertainment; nothing more, nothing less. Once I realized that, I enjoyed the show more, crazy plotholes and melodramatic plot twists and nonsensical character motivations and all. But it’s over now, and we can move on to bigger and better things.

  7. Panther says:

    As a fan of the series I’m glad this ridiculous chain of events is finally over and ended OK (I thought the ending was going to be MUCH worse). Score was pretty fair. Surprised didn’t think you were following this series :P .

  8. BlueYoshi says:

    I have DVD’s of the first season. I wonder…should I watch the entertaining trainwreck? I wish I didn’t find out what happened at the end though.

  9. Cody says:

    Japanese bashing Chinese?

    How far does it go? I haven’t watched any of CG yet, but JAPANESE bashing CHINESE is a little much isn’t it? I mean that’s just a bit tasteless imo.

  10. Cody says:

    p.s at least they didn’t bring the koreans into this.

  11. Camario says:

    @Cody: A bunch of eunuchs are portrayed as evil and corrupt. At the same time, another character who opposes them is portrayed as honorable and heroic. It’s all stereotypical in both directions, you can read as little or as much into it as you want.

  12. Lika says:

    Considering the fact that the only reason all my friends got into it was because it had giant robots and character designs done by CLAMP, I never had high expectations for it. Oh well, at least it’s fun to laugh at and the porn for it is of surprisingly high quality.

  13. windy says:

    This anime is amazing!!! Both the characters and the storytelling, I can’t understand why you don’t have the same view on it,how can you critisize such a great series and it has a huge success cause it completely deserves it!!!!!!Gundam 00 can’t compare a little inch to it! Lelouch is great as a character, he showed himself as a devil just to build a world where people can live a true life without seeing their family or friends die. He succeeded in building a new world and all the chrters have a good ending!!! He is a true hero despite everything that people may say (often compared to Light in Death Note which he can’t) , Light is a devil , Lelouch not, even with his new power of geass, he still cared about people he loved once or surrounding him, he pretended not to care but we ( the audience) know his true nature and that’s what I like with that character , he’s the villain at the eyes of the world and is described as a negative character but deep inside he has never been what he wanted to show of himself ( a dreadful chrter)!!! He put a mask and act, but it’s nothing more than that, Light kills everyone , he can easily kill his family/friends so it’s comletely different matter, Light is a devil. The chrters here are really well – developped throughout this series but they kept following the aim they had to achieve. Nina’s character really surprised me at the best cause she wasn’t a chrter I liked in the past but she showed me she wasn’t just an insinificant girl obsessed but her revenge for Euphy( she wasn’t wrong though cause Euphy was a great chter , my favorite with Cornelia and Lelouch )but someone who made good choices at critical times even if that meant landing a hand to Zero, she cared about other people and is following her ideals, which we didn’t see in the first season ( she seems to be somehow selfish and out of it).
    As for the supposed “death” of characters, I think the chrters you spoke about aren’t showed dead which means it’s our fault for picturing them dead beforehand ( I thought Cornelia was dead but she wasn’t shot many times and with Sneizel taking her at the hosp she had all her chances to survive, Nanaly’s survival has been well – explained and is logical , Guilford is the only one who “miraculously ” survived . What I like the most about CG it’s the way they deal with the different chrters and the plot and the overflowing emotions it brings, I somehow would say it’s an all-time series ( historical elements such as quarrels among different members of royal families, present such as everyday life at Ashford and future withe the new Nightmares , Freya etc…and WAR the background of all civilisations. It doesn’t just show some mechas where chrters are almost unseen like in Gundam which is overwhelmed by those action scene and we can’t get why and who, in CG, Nightmares are just used for the war ( its purpose)and chrters are always there and yes there are many shocks but that’s why this sries is so enjoyable, without them we would have smthing like Gundam or Maccross frontier (where the ending is a total waste!!!!!)I would note Code Geass 10/10. Only my opinion.

  14. Senna says:

    I really enjoyed Code Geass from beginning to end, but I do recognize that it has flaws. It’s kind of a crack show to me, but I think it did really great with its emotional moments and the relationships between the characters (especially between Lelouch and C.C., and Lelouch and Nunnally). Also, the ending was much better than I dared hope for.

  15. Keith says:

    psgels, I don’t know if you want to hear this or not, but you’re actually the person that got me into Code Geass. I had read a post of yours a while back about how such-and-such anime was waaaay better than the trainwreck that is Geass and I thought “Hm, I wonder if it’s really that bad.”

    So, I started it, and after the first episode ended I laughed out loud. I thought it was ridiculous and complete crap, albeit entertaining. Then I finished season 1 and though “Wait, it kinda looks like they’re taking this show somewhere thematically.” And viewing Season 1 with its cliffhanger as it’s own separate show (Which the director intended if he didn’t get season 2) would make it a really smart ending.

    Anyway, about halfway through R2 i was completely captivated. Not because it had great story telling, and not just because it was purely entertaining, but because it had a unique theme and symbolism. It’s the only show where the main character lies and it’s shown that lying is a good thing.

    So, I absolutely love Code Geass and can easily say it’s my favorite anime. What I realized is that (in my opinion), you view anime and enjoy it because of storytelling and character developement primarily. I take more thematics and symbolism (and character developement too) away from the anime I watch. And in Code Geass, the symbols and themes and how the characters evolve because of them is where it’s at.

    (sorry that was long)

  16. windy says:

    to Senna: thanks, I thought I was the only one who enjoyed watching it, but to tell the truth if there were flaws I liked them all. I think all those coincidences/shocks make this series so great and above other animated series! As you said, the emotionnal moments are impressive ( Lelouch and Nanally, I really wished for them to make up so they could live together like they used to , why Nanaly didn’t realize before the true intentions of her brother, who lived with her and protected her for so long?! She should have trust him more but it was so sad to see him die and her finally realizing he wasn’t mistaken, having Nanaly facing her brother on Damocles was so heart-breaking, had a urge to say ” stop that! you all want the same ,you’re brother and sister, now make up and put an end to that fight, see what’s really important to you! “,this series made cry , laugh and smile. I like series that play with emotions and I think that’s the backround of all animated series , at least it should be, but sometimes they forgot that important fact.

  17. LifeCarrier says:

    I too enjoyed the action while mocking the plot holes and cheese, I think psgels was extremely generous giving this show a 7 in storytelling…

  18. Denizen says:

    As expected, at least one person used this comment section to bash psgels review and throw their abysmally long revoew founded on pure personal opinion, “I liked this character” and “it’s popular lawl”.

    Code Geass could never be described as 10/10. That’s ridiculous.

  19. windy says:

    What I said on my previous comment was my personnal opinion and feelings but I would never critisize what psgels had written, you’re totally wrong!!!! I respect her opinion more than any others because I admire her work and most of the time I totally agree with her on animated series ( higurashi, kara no kyokai, porfy no nagai tabi, les miserables, ghost hunt , kaze no shoujo Emily ,Simoun and many others) but I really loved Code geass and I know that many think it’s wrecked and all but I don’t know why i loved it so much but I did ( as if everything I expect was there , as if done as I planned myself) and I truely think that it deserves 10/10. That’s all. But I respect your views on it.

  20. windy says:

    I forgot to tell that what I mostly apreciated was the charach – design but you won’t agree with me on that point too , I guess.

  21. psgels psgels says:

    Windy: I like your comments, and even though I don’t agree with your views on this series, I can understand it that you loved this series. But please: don’t call me a “her”, when I’m actually a “him”. ;)

  22. windy says:

    Sorry, I made a mistake in my writting .

  23. Eonir says:

    Psgels, don’t be surprised, it’s your fault!
    After all, this site has quite a fruity layout. One would think a male is too proud to use such pretty graphics and colour sets ;)

  24. Windspirit says:

    Way, waaaaaaay too generous on this crappy anime, especially a 7/10 in storytelling. I mean, please, try and find me one (ONLY ONE) hint in the first 45 episodes about Charuru’s motivations, which were explained in episode 46. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It’s like the writers realized they only has 5 episodes left and a ton of things to explain, let’s start with Charuru. Lack of inspiration. Let’s rewatch the most popular mecha animes of the last years. Ooooooooh, Evangelion… Oh come on… At least in the first season, especially towards the end, if I forced myself, I could think “they CAN actually get somewhere, hmmm…”, but now in the second, the little sense the first season already had was completely shattered, characters with potential were wasted (Jeremiah, Villetta, Kallen, Suzaku…), preconcieved ideas and accepted truths of the show were mercilessly changed, in a word : trainwreck.

    In terms of enterainment, it certainly delivered in spades (I’m sure you’d be just as amazed at watching a REAL trainwreck), no question possible (be it fanservice, ridiculous plot twists, ridiculous characters, ridiculous WTF situations, etc., always wanted to jump on the next episode, asking myself what kind of EVEN MOAR ridiculous shit the writers will come up with to make their show EVEN MOAR atrocious), but objectively speaking, I don’t think I can milk anything good out of this series anymore, especially with the dramatic turn of the second season.

    Crappy yet delightfully enteraining series.

    Too bad they didn’t end it like that :
    http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6964/1222627560628tb0.png

  25. windy says:

    it’s really sad Windspirit if all you have to recall of that series is a “trainwreck” you mentioned because you didn’t enjoy or should I say you haven’t lived what we lived throughout this entire series and well, I’m really glad i had this chance, it will be carved inside my mind forever and what is unbearable for me is having that beautiful series end. Yes, I do agree there’s a lot of fiction and incoherent moments but I started it knowing that , just who said all animated series had to be logical and coherent in every point? Enjoyment is an important matter when you watch series like that. You seem quite reticent to that but why do you watch that kind of anime, is it to watch accurate facts like they should be, it would be boring !

  26. saris says:

    I have to applause you for the rating of 72.5 for this one. Although Code geass is a bit enjoying but it’s nothing near greatness. And R2 is even more trainwrecked than the first season. Although there is interesting idea here and there but end up stupidly using it. And since I’m not Lulu’s fangirl , there’s not even an eye-candy factor to help me feel better about this show. I agree that 7 or lower is an appropriate rating for it.

  27. Keith says:

    Honestly, if I ever read a negative review that uses the word “trainwreck” I feel it makes it immediately invalid. I mean, I can accept a negative review, but the word “trainwreck” is used to often that it sort of implies that either 1) The person hasn’t actually watched the show or 2) Their opinion is adopted from anothers.

    Try to actually make coherent reasons why the show isn’t good instead of just using a pre-made label.

    For example, yes it is a poorly paced show (but if the pacing was slower would it have been nearly as crack addictive?)

  28. Denizen says:

    Even the people who like Code Geass have called this show a “Trainwreck”.

    And that is, in fact, the perfect description for it. A Disastrous series of accidents, but at least it looks pretty.

    It’s a trainwreck.

  29. Solaris says:

    Windy, you were blinder than Nunnally while watching to the show. You did’t want to see or overlooked to the many flaws this anime shows.

    The cast is used in the worst way possible. Char play out of character indeed, and idle on the screen without making sense at all. They weren’t disposed when necessary and the direction going on on reviving them without any reason. Char development drove them to meaningful actions and complete turning their personaluty upside down, expecially at the end of the serie. I.e. Suzaku wasn’t named Spinzaku for no reason… C.c was useless at the end… Kallen turned out from lovable to hateful and so on…

    Not to speak about the complete incoherence and illogicity of the plot…

    Unreasonable and unpredictable plot twist at the end of the episodes were the only entertaining thus laughable stuff in the show.

    72/100 is too much. It deserves 55 or less only cause it proves how low is people expectations about anime nowadays

  30. Camario says:

    @Denizen:It’s the most popular (read: memetic) description, but not everyone agrees about exactly what it means.You just gave your own definition, but I’ve seen others elsewhere.In the end, there’s only a vague sense of commonality between what each person thinks “train wreck” means.The “general idea” if you will, but not the specifics.

    Now, I don’t use the word myself, so I can completely understand Keith here.I’d rather read people’s arguments and agree/disagree with them,not just throw buzzwords around. But I don’t really mind if people use the term if they actually back up the rest of their views coherently.

  31. windy says:

    to Solaris : I wasn’t blind at all , you were should I say , for not seeing all the good aspects that series showed. First, to start with the total incomprehension between us, maybe those “flaws” you talked about are exactly the reason why I loved that show sooooo much, we don’t have the chance to watch an anime with so many great “flaws” , that’s what makes it so exiting to watch, for me waiting for the next ep was torture , i couldn’t wait, that’s the first exitement i mentioned, second one while you watch it you don’t want it to end and you enjoy being in that totally different world from what you usually see, personnaly I think you should give more examples of ” those dreadful flaws” you were talking about bacause if you don’t have any, maybe it wasn’t that bad after all!!!
    I want to understand your point but I can’t, I can just say that: people are too different, different taste and personnality, that can explain our total desagreement but you pointed out smth : I think for that show you can’t be in the middle,you loved it or you hated it, I’m among those who loved it and that show has many fans so consider I’m one of them, sounds stupid but here I am. Now , what do you expect from an anime anyway? I expect a good charach- design ( beautiful characters ( like in CG) , if not the storytelling must cover it, has to be good)!!!!, an entertaining storytelling and plot, even if it’s a mess I don’t care , relationships between characters are really important too. Figt scenes , usually i never enjoyed mechas and fighting between robots and all that stuff, that’s why i’m the most surprised that I enjoyed it so much. It wasn’t entertaining it was completely amazing , all that mess was the greatest and most enjoyable i’ve ever seen in all my life. Here mechas don’t build the show but help the action of the show , never forgetting chracters. Just out of curiosity , you had better enjoyed Gundam oo, didn’t you, I nearly hated it, not everything but almost, scenes with characters were good , the chrach-design was good but almost all we can see are mechas fighting, without understanding the course of action. That’s why i’d give Code Geass 10 but i know you’d note it 2 or 3 like I would for that one : 4 or 5, not more,.

  32. windy says:

    to Solaris : Oh, and my expectations are really high! There are series i would note 2 or 3 like “Saikano”, you see or “Lain” or “blood seed” or “Naruto” ( 1 or 0) so you see how much it’s a good one!My most favorite animated series are Code geass and Higurashi( great one too, i love it)as well as many others but just a little less Miserables , Simoun, El cazador , nijuu mensou no musume, death note … I would note them 9,5.
    One more think the music in CG was overwhelming and heartbreaking, I loved it at the end, i had tears, and also loved the happy ending, wished for it!!!!

  33. Solaris says:

    Windy, we could speak years about Geass, but how and where? Psgel’s blog isn’t the right place to start such a forum like discussion…

    A short premise. It’s not that Geass completely fails. It started very good, had a huge good cast and good premises. The ending was pretty good too. But something was missed way around! The execution wasn’t flawless and much potential was wasted in pointless fillers and a rushed and confused last quarter.
    What pisses me very bad is Geass could have been The Serie, but somehow at some point it literally went in the wrong direction!

    I cannot write a complete essay about every aspect or event portrayed in Geass, but simply will grasp a couple of hints from your long speech.

    mechas fight compared to Gundam.
    So Gundam is all about who has the most outstanding and shocking macha right? We don’t like it, do we?
    We like more a concept where there’s some strategy, the ability of the commander to move his army couples with the ability of his pilot to win a battle, just like a chess match.
    That’s nice and that’s what we have at the very beginning of Code Geass.
    Mechas are nothing more than tanks, perfectly moved by mastermind Zero. Notice how zero thinks of its strategies playing on a chess board.
    But as soon as Suzaku with his lancelot pops in this nice concept was wasted.
    Lancelot was always uber, a kind of wildcard in any of Zero’s match.
    Soon the mecha fight moved from the best strategy to the most oustanding mecha. Lancelot and Guren became the new actor of the play and overshadowed Zero’s strategy. In the R2 Zero has lost any of its importance as a leader, and has been transformed in apolitician. After that new Gindam appeared. Gwain, Tristan, Mordred stole the stage. That time Geass started to dangerous resemble Gundam…
    You se now when i’m speaking of “something gone wrong”. Where or when exactly Geass became Gundam? Dunno, but i didn’t like it that much…

  34. windy says:

    Yeah, what you said about strategy is right, but even if there were more fighting/mecha scenes in CGR2, they never forget about characters inside the Knightmare contrary to Gundam where characters are missing throughout episodes. Plus, I was thinking about what psgels said once , that CG has some elements of a soap opera, that’s not completely wrong cause I see them too, maybe it’s also a good point for me cause I like when different characters are linked somehow, have the same past or to see them friends one day and the other ennemies ( Suzaku/Lelouch).

  35. ninjbyte says:

    I have watched innumerable anime, it being one of my favorite pastimes. I regret not having the time to properly express my dissapointment with this review and people that side with it.

    I have never seen plot twists so surprising and well made, characters I can relate to so easily, strategy tricks and character death’s. I can say with ease that this is my number one anime.

    Cheers.

  36. ninjbyte says:

    Even though, I can’t say that it didn’t have flaws…
    But the music… so well done, and fits so well with everything else…. All of CG’s great points added up…

    GOD I hope there’ll be a next season.

    …Then again, maybe not. Not if they’re going to ruin it.

    Cheers again.

  37. windy says:

    Yeah, I think just the same, ninjbyte. I cross my fingers for that show to have a third season even if it kinda impossible cause everything is solved, or at least a long animated movie or some kinds of OAV, anything will be wellcome, I can’t bear to think it’s the end, i’m still clutching on hopes. Really, i feel just so down and unhappy now that i know it’s finished and i don’t have something that great to expect each week!!!!!!

  38. windy says:

    I’ve just finished to watch X – tv of Clamp and I found some similarities with Code Geass, maybe because I really into it now, well, first “to protect people you love”, then the “battle of Apocalypse” and the different views of characters on the world , be they the dragon of earth or the dragon of heaven, then the relationships and the blood link or friendship that link the characters together except the mecha theme I found many similar elements and I just fell in love with that show of Clamp, my favorite work of Clamp( after Code Geass of course but it’s not really one of their works either).

  39. dickheads says:

    are u guys fking retarded code geass is fuking awesome u dumb shits.

  40. faggots says:

    You compare it to gundam yet gundam suchs a shit anime. its a disgrace i mean come on which is the 1st series and wtf is with all those fken different gundams seriously retarded

  41. windy says:

    Yes, this series is the best one ever!!!!!And forever!

  42. ninjbyte says:

    Though I usually tend to disagree with intolerant people of poor grammar like dickheads and faggots (no pun intended), I must say I am on their side.

  43. Maximilian says:

    Geass might be overrated and so on and so forth, but this review isn’t exactly accurate nor fair.

    -The show has nothing to do with 00 and only very superficially resembles Death Note.

    -“Running into each other” or other coincidences may be overused and too convenient, you got that right, but they sure aren’t “plot holes”. You must be thinking of a different term.

    -Most of the complaints about the cast acting “completely out of character” are quite unjustified, as those changes actually make sense if you stop to consider what the hell has just happened or why the characters would react in a different way. It’s not too subtle, but if you don’t even want to try, then you’ll never get the point. “Complex political reasons” aren’t the only valid explanation for changing sides.

    -(If you see an important character kicking the bucket, you can be 75% sure that he or she is somehow going to magically reappear again, later in the series.)

    How about, you know…actually thinking about each particular case? Only about two examples fit your exact description, making that “75%” figure you pulled out rather false. On the other hand, there are other cases where characters did come back, but not because of so-called “magic”. Thus the DBZ comparison is very out of place.

    -The message is actually quite anti-nationalistic when you consider Lelouch is not interested in Japan per se but in liberating it for his own goals. Big difference.

    -I don’t claim to be a genius but I’m definitely not “brainless” and didn’t have problems understanding some of the themes and points the series wanted to make. Nothing world changing at all, nope, but certainly far from being as mindless as you wrongly and too easily portray it. Then again, I suppose it is ironic in a way…the worst Geass reviews usually come from otherwise intelligent people who try to say that the series is “beneath them” and thus they are too lazy and uninterested to even care.

  44. vijay says:

    Lelouch is a shitty character I feel no connection with. My main problem with the series really…

  45. Hellian says:

    The problem with this anime is that it assumes the viewers are mindless idiots. True fact. It’s full of deus’ ex machina, the decisions the characters are wtf unbelievably dumb. Here we have Lelouch who is supposedly a great intellectual but keeps doing extremely unreasonable things. It’s so frustrating! This show has so much potential but in the end, it became a total waste of time.

  46. tealovertoma says:

    Wow, a lot of Code Geass haters here, huh?

    The series is completely over-the-top so anyone who tries to review it as a serious drama anime is doing something wrong, that’s like reviewing a operatic rock album as an emotional acoustic album, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Either you’re not the right audience for this show or you should’ve adjusted your expectations. I mean, it’s not like the setting is believable…?

    As an over-the-top show it has a really good premise and delivers on almost every front, it’s highly recommended if you just want to watch something enjoyable with lots of plot twists. 2nd season got a bit mediocre halfway through though.

  47. Hellian says:

    Of course most anime out there are over the top. But a good anime or any other fictional works out there should at least be based on something concrete that’ll helped the audience suspend their disbelief while watching said show.

    But my main problem with Code Geas, is the false advertisement. At the first episode, we have Lelouch being portrayed as an intellectual, a genius. Of course as a viewer you’re expecting that there’s going to be a lot of mind games, complex plots, great strategies that makes sense . . . So I bought the dvds based on that. When after watching through all those episodes, and when all those expectations were not met, crushed to dust, sent to oblivion, I felt short changed, pissed off even.

  48. Saki says:

    Why is it that the people who are critical (not to say that they dislike it) about Code Geass write neatly, while the ones who seem to be ready to die in defense of the series write so badly? What does it tell us? Hmmmm.

    • Indigo says:

      Well, we all are typing so nearly is not the right word you should be using.”Well” or “grammatically correct” would be better. Also, I hate how people use grammar as a sign of intelligence. So does that mean that if you are capable of writing “correctly” you are a genius sent by god? Here a newsflash. People don’t try that hard when they type comment, its to give our fresh and raw opinion. Not something we turn in to our English AP teachers. Oh, I forgot. The internet is serious business guys.

  49. Camario says:

    @Saki: I would think the arguments themselves matter a lot more than who is making them or their ability to write well. This goes for both sides of any issue, so you shouldn’t really generalize like that either.

  50. Solaris says:

    Saki hit one point indeed.
    Only who’s turning off his brain enjoying mindless shows could find Geass good enough.
    If you have your brain shut off it’s also rather hard to argument thoughts into words, i guess (just joking :P)
    Anyway, that also makes Geass one perfect show for youngsters that will promptly buy toys.

    Geass has got tons of mindless action, fights and mechas. That does mind. Good plot, char developement or acting is nothing to said people as long they see explosions and blood.
    That’s not a crime at all.
    I even enjoyed mechas wars, silly shows or fanservice feasts, but i’d never call those masterpieces ;)

  51. c-ron says:

    Apparently no-one on here actually gets the philosophy which I find so interesting in Code Geass.

    Thats a pity.

  52. Solaris says:

    What phylosophy? Would like to know about it.

  53. tealovertoma says:

    I’m a big fan of philosophy but Code Geass’ is mostly half-baked philosophy now with 50% more nonsense; *especially* the 2nd season. If you try to take the show serious it completely falls apart.

  54. Solaris says:

    The big problem with all those who loved Geass is they absolutely cannot say anything about their reason.
    They keep saying wonderful, epic, and speak by emotions. These people are captured by the good looking visuals, the frenetic or rambling action and the charismatic chars, but they never stop thinking what’s under that shallow appearance.
    That’s where they fail miserably and where Sunrise epic won! Geass and its likes shows clearly what looks relevant in animes: The power to capture the audience with just some visual feast, completely overlooking substantial plot faults.
    That’s to say plot seems irrilevant in animes nowadays.
    It’s no surprise many animes now pump up graphics over plot.
    Shoud i name latest examples such as Bakeboringatari? Oops i just did it :P

  55. tealovertoma says:

    With all due respect, life must suck if you view everything that way. Stop looking at the past with such rose-tinted glasses. An intelligent backing is nice but if you view everything that doesn’t have the same intelligence as “trash”, then you’re not going to enjoy a whole lot of things in life. Yeah I get it, life these days sucks, looking down on everything is easy, and everyone is a sheep distracted by the shiny-shiny except for you. http://xkcd.com/610/

    Shallow fun is still fun, there are plenty of things in Code Geass well done. I don’t think it’s the masterpiece a lot of people make it out to be, but come on, aren’t some of you trying a bit too hard to be controversial by bashing everything popular?

  56. tealovertoma says:

    I do apologise if I sound a bit condescending there, the internet’s general cynical and jaded view – that has seemingly also intruded in the anime world – pisses me off.

  57. Solaris says:

    You’re wrong. I only bash what it deserved to be bashed in my humble opinion, despite it being popular or not.
    If a show is very popular, it doesn’t automatically mean it’s absolutely good. It only means a lot of people like it for some reason, that is not my reason here.
    And i have all the right to say loud and clear that i disagree.
    I don’t deserve to be called cynical or life-sucker if i am able to watch a step ahead your generic anime watcher.
    Yes, anime is something aimed mainly at a young audience, but it doesn’t mean we must take them lightly. Anime is a media for telling stories and i like to analyze it.

  58. psgels psgels says:

    Solaris: yeah, that’s nice and all, but here’s the thing: who decides what’s defined as “a step ahead”?

  59. Solaris says:

    Well if you had more arguments than me, you were ahead. But who just sees things such superficially such as some generic anime watcher, couldn’t have many arguments to sell out. Am i mistaking so much?

    My good kids, i don’t hold a grudge with what’s popular or with those who like mindless entertainment at all. I repeat i also love mindless shows ever now and then. Should i hate myself for that? I guess no.

    I really hate just those who being superficial blabber sentences without the proper judgement or reasoning, and also indulge in gratuitous offences.

  60. Gotank says:

    Greetings, I can’t say I agree with you much on the review. I think CG had much more to offer than simply mindless entertainment.

    Some inconsequential characters were poorly developed and rationalized, but most of the important ones weren’t. In my opinion, Lelouch’s character development throughout the series was fantastic. Rolo was also a very well-conceived character.

    I think we can all agree that some plot developments were fueled by direction rather than rationalization (eg. Orange’s defect for Zero), but more of it were rationalized in ways that viewers simply couldn’t understand prior to the ending, and thus been deemed ridiculous (eg. Suzaku’s aliance with Lelouch at the end).

    Geass was ambitious, but I don’t think it failed all that badly as you describe. The ending made a very strong point (actually, several), and the plot served to build everything up to that moment.

    Then again, I think reviews on these type of series can be very subjective. As Keith suggested above, those that look for thematic depth and ‘grand pictures’ in anime tend to find Geass much better than those that focus on finer details.

  61. Gotank says:

    Oops, forgot about a few things.

    As someone who has taken offense to anti-Chinese propaganda before, I actually didn’t find Geass’ portrayal of the world to be that offensive. Sure it was very nationalistic on the surface, but I could hardly find any ill intent in the way things are done. It was more funny than anything else.

    The music of Geass deserves praise. Several insert songs by Hitomi were fantastic (episode 19 and 25 of R2 come to mind), while the soundtrack didn’t disappoint either with the likes of ‘Madder Sky’ and ‘Across the Borderline’. While the repeated dependence on brass can be a little exhausting for the listener, the overall orchestration and themes were quite good I’d say!

    Overall, I don’t think any other series appealed to me in so many ways as Geass did. It was moving, philosophical, thought provoking, and thoroughly entertaining.

  62. yoshi says:

    code geass is very unique anime, i want to see another mecha anime like this, this is the reality of life, but this film is to fast and for children (under 15)must watch the movie with their parents, because for anime this film just like bravehart, full of inspiration. i hope i will watching another anime that have the same type as code geass. i am very lucky to know & have already watching this anime

  63. Celeste says:

    RE: anti-Chinese propaganda

    Are any of you familiar with Chinese history in the 1900s? The death of tens of millions of innocents was sort of a theme, along with intense autocratic political control. If a country like China is “stereotyped” as being “fascist” it is only because China has never had a democratic/liberal/progressive government in its entire history. Even Germany had democratic periods before the rise of the Nazis, whereas China has been nothing but emperors and dictators since the Middle Kingdom’s foundation. Their portrayal wasn’t that far-fetched.

    RE: this show being shitty

    Code Geass is largely a discussion of the pains of being a gifted person. Gifted people often are very clever at somethings, but when it comes to interpersonal relations, they can often make incredible stupid mistakes, as was the case with Lelouch. My second degree was in education, and I watched Code Geass during that time, and I found his experience to be very similar to that suffered by many gifted students. Of course, it is an exaggerated allegorical version of that, but much of Lelouch’s actions made more sense to me after my studies.

    So that’s one person who liked the show and is able to write properly. :p

  64. sure.... says:

    Code Geass sucks monkey balls. Find something better too watch, seriously. All the crap fillers and convoluted storylines makes it perhaps entertaining for the moment, but otherwise forgettable.

  65. ...why not says:

    ^^It “sure” seems like you didn’t forget it though, considering how you bothered to reply to a comment made a year ago in an otherwise inactive discussion.

    I’ve certainly found better things to watch in the meanwhile, without having to come back and snipe at people who somehow committed the sin of daring to enjoy something you didn’t.

  66. Pavke says:

    Dear mister know it all.
    I m writing this comment in the hopes to salvage Code Geass, even a little part of it that you destroyed .So I am going to state a couple of my opinions to prove you wrong about the whole Code Geass thing being crappy.
    1. -O.K. firstly let me state out that you don t have the right to say that Code Geass had bad writing just to use a bigger shock as possible. It s because of it s fat storytelling that makes Code Geass exciting and unpredictable. The whole plot was well executed although I admit that there were a couple of loss ends, but that was all covered up with the heart pumping storytelling. But let me just make it clear I am only telling this about the first season, the second was crap, but the end exceeded all my expectations.
    2. -Secondly, I don t understand what you don t like about the characterization of the main characters. In my opinion it was excelent and well developed from the relationship of Nunaly and Lelouche to the rivalry of Suzaku and Lelouche . There were apsolutely no holes in their behaviours, and I don t understand when you say that they act out of character, name one and i will prove you wrong.
    3. -Third, when you said that we can all expect that when somebody dies that he will resurrect, please endulge me and name only one person in the whole series that did that, and please dont name that retard who can read minds with his geass, because he deserved that more than two times because he was an ass.
    4. -With the nationalistic messages critisism i agree. In the beginning of the first season it was a great boost for the main plot but in the end it get draged on and on when finally i asked myself “For what is Lelouche fighting, again?”
    5. -And the final part of my counterattack to your unbased critisism to the whole series. You speak of Code Geass like it is only for mindless bruts who don t have nothing better to do then to wack off and watch Code Geass. In that part you are completely wrong, and you misjudged the whole point of the series in the first place. For me the big message was :
    What would happen if a puny mortal discovers a power that can help him establish his goals for a better world and unity no matter what the cost is. But it the end his lust for power beats the best of him and destroys him. But that only happened in Death Note, Code Geass had a much happier ending because even though Lelouche destroyed one world he created a much better one.

  67. fanya says:

    i think you watch waaay to much anime that you have lost any sense of what you like or don’t like, to the point that not even ONE series deserves a full 100!!. You really need to do something else…don’t take “anime” to seriously girl…

  68. Solaris says:

    Oh please there’s still somebody who has the lust to resume this tired discussion. Geass is already forgotten, there’s newer and better crap to blabber about. Do yourself a favor and let rest this forever in peace.

  69. Souther says:

    As tired as the discussion might be, however, the fact is that some of us aren’t “idiots” nor do we “turn off” our brains and yet still manage to appreciate certain aspects of Code Geass, such as the tragic nature of Lelouch’s rise and fall or the irony of his predicament. This requires, at the very least, some level of literary analysis, attention to detail and, most certainly, patience in the midst of the far too simplistic “rage” certain critics fall into.

    Therefore, the implication that everyone who likes the series is a fool or a fanboy is insulting for those of us who can articulate our own views quite seriously.

    So what if this series is old? There’s no statute of limitations on commenting as far as I know.

  70. Solaris says:

    @Souther. I’d rather accept all of you are speaking about, unless the show had its own coherence to support it or you put into enough reasoning to make up for its insubstantial plot.
    But, as long as many of us “haters” used reasoning to point out many flaws, the opposing faction of “fanboys” never stated valid enough reasoning expet fanboysm. It’s as simple as that. Make a good essay of it and i’ll gladly accept it.

  71. Souther says:

    @Solaris:

    Considering that a number of other individuals -not just in this site’s comments section but elsewhere- have already provided at least some well-reasoned arguments that you have apparently completely ignored through the use of incorrect generalizations that allow no room for respectful disagreement…why should I believe you would read any hypothetical essay of mine?

    It seems you wouldn’t even reply. It’s a pity, but it does not appear that you’re willing to discuss anything at all. The fact that you’re claiming those who disagree with your position are all “fanboys” means you are extremely close-minded about this and need to resort to insults.

    Reading the previous comments reveals that there are, indeed, some “fanboys” but also other individuals who shouldn’t be mistreated so carelessly.

    If you believe that if someone recognizes the show has flaws -as I do- but also finds some positives -such as those that have been previously mentioned but not limited to them- they’re guilty of “fanboyism” then I guess you’ll always be prejudiced against anything I could ever write here.

    Only a blind person would claim that the show is flawless -something I’ll never do- but those who pretend that there is nothing good to say about it at all aren’t exactly showing much attention to detail, let alone respect for their counterparts.

  72. Solaris says:

    Souther, I couldn’t surf all of the internet to find what i’m not interested in the first place. Here’s the discussion i’m looking forward to follow, so let’s discuss it here. Write here your reasons or just link someone’s else reasoning you think they can add up to the discussion, unless you can find any other reason yourself. I already pointed put both good and bad points of Geass and i’m getting tired to repeat myself over and over. I can’t care less if my statement hurt someone sensibility. If i think the show is bad, should i really refrain to point it out cause someone could feel hurt? And if whoever voices his own opinion blabbering random stuff without any reason whatsoever such as “Lulu is sooo cool and suzu rocks so much” and the likes of it, i’d gladly label him as fanboy.
    Thus said, do you have some reason to show us or just complain my own rudeness, a matter Star Crossed audience would be hardly intersted in?

  73. Souther says:

    @Solaris:

    Fine, fine. Despite considering it an almost pointless endeavor…I’ll play along for a little bit.

    The framework of the show -in both seasons- is based around Lelouch’s internal struggle and the consequences directly or indirectly brought upon himself and those surrounding him because of his decisions. It sounds obvious, but sometimes the most obvious things are the most overlooked.

    In essence, it’s meant to be the operatic and melodramatic tale of a flawed young man who owes more to the Byronic concept of a hero than to the traditional mold of heroism.

    His fate is one of repeated suffering and punishment in exchange for the steps he has taken in order to reach his objective. The degree of realism -or lack thereof- of specific events in the series doesn’t alter this basic concept at any point. How something happens may not be realistic but, more often than not, that’s not the point. It may reflect certain execution problems when particular developments and twists happen too quickly and without enough explanations, which is unfortunately enough one of the biggest annoyances during the second half of R2, but that does not change the direction of the narrative nor that of its central premise. It may be hard to watch -let alone stomach- but it’s not impossible to appreciate from a literary perspective.

    From the very first episode to the last in the series…what makes Lelouch very different from someone like Light Yagami -and, by extension, something that goes beyond the extremely simplistic accusation of Code Geass “ripping off” Death Note- is the issue of emotional range and sensibility. With the possible exception of the final scene in Death Note (and the Yotsuba arc, but it didn’t have any lasting consequences for his character aftewards), Light usually does not show any signs of remorse or guilt. Lelouch, on the other hand, does display guilt.

    Perhaps too much, in fact. He knows that he’s committing “evil” for the sake of “good” and knows that many his actions are all morally reprehensible. The thing is, he thinks he’s doomed to either move forward in spite of this or, as shown a few times, risks falling into a state of desperation and/or inactivity.

    The irony of it all, and one of the main tragedies, lies in the fact that Lelouch is -at least deep down- a good person who has simply made too many wrong choices: fighting evil with more evil instead of choosing a more constructive path. Let’s be honest: he didn’t need to become Zero and fight Britannia. Not even his own sister wanted that from him. The audience sympathizes with his initial cause, to a greater or lesser extent, but he really could have saved himself a lot of trouble right from the start and at many other points.

    Granted, bad luck and inconvenient plot devices are a factor in pushing him forward time and time again, but Lelouch almost always had a choice. Some people cannot tolerate his character’s later actions, pretending that making “wrong” choices is a sign of bad writing or stupidity…but I think that’s what actually makes him a more complex and tragic figure. Human beings make mistakes, including ones that external observers might consider very stupid, throughout all of our lives.

    Whether he survived or not at the end isn’t the point. In either scenario, he’s achieved his goal but at the cost of taking far too many lives and forever distancing himself from practically everyone he ever knew.

  74. Solaris says:

    You have a good point, Souther, but is it really enough to fully promote this serie? What you are stating is a good premise (that was unfortunately ruined later by bad writing). Almost everybody of us ‘haters’ condemned direction over premises. Geass had indeed very good premises. That’s crystal clear in the second serie when all the building up of the first one was destroyed. Just notice how much Lulu’s own carachter changed for the bad from the first to the second serie. Aside he’s the main villain of the show, Lulu’s motives are from from ideal. He’s just an esiled prince who’s lost all. He luckily got the lifetime chance of revenge and redemption when he met with C.c. As the first season developed his rise, the second one should have dealt with his fall. The sudden change in Lulu’s char in the latter serie, from cold and calculating to insecure and caring made him apparently behave completely out of char: Lulu was unrecognizable from his own self as we knew him from the first serie. I can understand that was made for char development in an environment that became hostile towards him when he started to loose everything from old school days with Shirley’s death to loosing his own sister in the big pink Freja esplosion, but the bad writing sure didn’t help clarify that.
    And we yet didn’t discuss every other char’s change of char at some time. It looked like all of them started behaving out of char at the same time in the last quarter, toghether with Lulu. Is it a coincidence again or rather another example of bad writing? This is all summed up with the word that was abused at the time Geass aired: trainwreck. The train started so well, but eventually at almost 3/4 of the trip something went wrong and it ended in the ravine.

  75. Souther says:

    @Solaris:

    Unfortunately but quite predictably, I must openly disagree with you…which is precisely what led me to post this in the first place.

    My analysis isn’t limited to the premise. The story’s execution fell short due to a production rush and an excessive sloppiness towards the end of Code Geass R2, but my argument is that the thematic core of the series remained intact throughout the two seasons. The premise didn’t change and this can be understood by those willing to leave behind the twin bandwagons of blind trolling and blind praise.

    In particular, your allegation that the essence of Lelouch’s character somehow completely changed between seasons is questionable and, I believe, is not supported by the evidence.

    Once again, I must stress that Lelouch was never perfectly cold and calculating. The first season is full of instances where the duality of his character was made apparent enough. He made mistakes and, to a greater or lesser extent, they affected him. Examples include: his hesitations after becoming aware of the unintended consequences of the Narita battle (as seen through Shirley’s distress after losing her father), the various arguments he has with C.C. and Suzaku, his desperation after Euphemia’s death or when Nunnally disappeared. There are many others, to be sure, but I don’t intend to make a complete list.

    This emotional tension -and his struggles to overcome it- is exactly what makes Lelouch different from other similar figures. If you wanted Lelouch to be absolutely resistant to emotional fallout or above and beyond human failings, then your problem does not lie with the second season but with the entire concept behind his character.

    Which, if so, I would find to be…a strange paradox, if nothing else. And, just as well, to say that the second season did not deal with Lelouch’s fall seems almost preposterous.

    In retrospect, that’s exactly what the entire second half of R2 was about: starting with Shirley’s death, Lelouch kept suffering and eventually became little more than a broken man by the time he faced his father. For better or for worse, Lelouch’s final decision was to enact Zero Requiem. An unrealistic plan that would never work in the real world, to be sure, but it makes thematic sense and brings finality after everything he had experienced.

    If we are to speak of “bad” writing, I think we must make an important distinction between themes and events. The writing problems with Code Geass -and R2 in particular- are limited to the second of these areas. There are several events whose details were poorly explained or rely on implausibilities. However, the story is actually fairly coherent in terms of themes and, to say the least, this is what allows for a rational interpretation of even the most unrealistic developments…for those who are interested, admittedly.

    As for the other characters, I do not share your generalization about their simply being “out of character”…rather, this ties into what I’ve just mentioned. I think the changes in their behavior weren’t properly explained, on the surface, but they aren’t irrational from an attentive viewer’s perspective who doesn’t need everything to be spoon-fed.

    To take a page from the Umineko no Naku Koro ni fanbase…I fear that the harshest critics of this show are far too quick to surrender to the Witch, as it were, and prefer to stop thinking when something breaks their suspension of disbelief. Why think when you can just cry “trainwreck” and move on?

  76. Souther says:

    Oh, and to make one last thing clear…this doesn’t mean the show shouldn’t be criticized or that nobody should be allowed to dislike (all or parts of) it. The show isn’t a masterpiece and, regardless of that, everyone is entitled to their own tastes and opinions.

    My fundamental point is that appreciating certain aspects of Code Geass does not require “blindness” or “stupidity” like it has been previously suggested. If you’re going to write a review and make comments that claim there is only simple entertainment value and nothing else, fine. That’s your point of view.

    It’s a respectable statement…but you shouldn’t bash other rational human beings who are capable of having a different interpretations that aren’t so limited and who can look at the show from a different perspective that requires no less intelligence or active thought.

  77. Solaris says:

    Just notice that you’re bashing my own assumptions, implying that’ i’m stupid or liar in the process too. Is it my turn to get angry for being mistreated now?
    I let you kindly notice that your argument was about premises, and i also praised your argument and have got insults in return. Oh good.
    Wouldn’t you mind unless i go back to my normal aggressive self, if i’d deal with the likes of you that firts shoot at the person, and not at the opposing argument, feeling hurt whenever someone looks to aggressive and trumps their shallow arguments?
    Enough with the cheap morale, This is a game where you show by reason your arguments not by stating the other arguments false without reason.
    In particular, your allegation that the essence of
    1)The story’s execution fell short due to a production rush and an excessive sloppiness towards the end of Code Geass R2, but my argument is that the thematic core of the series remained intact throughout the two seasons.
    All of your “themes” weren’t wasted by adding too many subplot and arcs without having more time to develop them propryly or not? Take the most important subplot and how it was dealt carelessly: Geass subplot.
    2)Lelouch’s character somehow completely changed between seasons is questionable and, I believe, is not supported by the evidence.
    Just compare S1 and S2. And where are your own evidences i’m mistaking?
    3) I must stress that Lelouch was never perfectly cold and calculating
    Thank God it wasn’t, unless we’d have a robot as a main lead! Besides yopur examples are all in the S1, when there were less problems.
    4)I think the changes in their behavior weren’t properly explained, on the surface, but they aren’t irrational from an attentive viewer’s perspective who doesn’t need everything to be spoon-fed
    Please, if the chars start spinning like that and it’s left unexplained, i’m spoiled if i ask for an explanation? here’s your explanation: As the too many deus ex machina and plot holes distrupted the effect-cause continuity and the chars started acting random. It’s as simple as that. So i didn’t need to be spoon-fed to discover what’s obvius, but i’m pretty sure you wouldn’t like it.
    Must i go on?
    Just do what you preached about and start adding everyone thoughts in your own, so that you’d stop blndly refusing any opposing reason like that.
    You’re simply refusing any point of view detracting from your own ideal vision. That’s really what fanboys do. And being I an hater, i just don’t give a fuck if you feeel hurt now. This is the end of the conversation.

  78. Souther says:

    @Solaris:

    You might not care, but I’m not intimidated by such words.

    I never intended to call you “stupid” or a “liar” but if there are elements in the show that you’re not acknowledging or statements that I consider incorrect…it is my duty to disagree, point them out and explain why our opinions are different. That’s all I did.

    I would even argue that my last post, while it was preceded by some harsh remarks (which weren’t directed at any specific person but at a way of thinking), ended as a respectful acknowledgement of disagreement. I haven’t ignored your rights.

    That is completely different from the blanket dismissals that have been made of other people’s opinions in this section. If I were truly a “fanboy” as you’re suggesting, all of that would have been unnecessary and I should have, in fact, called you “stupid” or a “liar” instead. That’s not what I did.

    But have it your way then. I knew this was going to happen. I believe I’ve already presented my own arguments in a fair amount of detail. I’ll just address a few things.

    a)By definition, a theme is far more important than any subplot. It’s a matter of perception, however, whether or not you can call them “wasted” as I did not feel the themes were impossible to grasp. In addition, I would also argue that the missing origins of Geass -for example- were never the central topic of the show. The series was about Lelouch, not Geass, which was only a tool and a curse…not the ultimate “goal” of the plotline. Did the Geass subplot receive a shoddy treatment? Yes, unfortunately, and it does detract from the show’s technical quality.

    b)You were the one who claimed Lelouch went from “calculating” to “insecure” from S1 to R2. The entire point of my mentioning incidents from S1 was, in effect, to show that Lelouch’s character was susceptible to emotional tensions and inner conflict long before R2.

    Since the second half of R2 is full of tensions and conflicts of a similar nature, it follows that Lelouch’s character was not radically altered then…the process just continued and, while he had moments of clarity, Lelouch’s suffering was magnified by the tragedies that kept affecting him. You want more evidence? Almost every single death or misfortune he reacted to after the halfway point. It’s a (negative and uncomfortable) progression, not a contradiction.

    c)In principle, asking for a better explanation is not wrong. However, saying that everything is just “random” and not trying to piece the events together does seem to suggest that you gave up too easily…which is understandable, in some instances, but I can’t agree with that as a general conclusion applied universally to every single character.

    For example, since you were apparently referring to the term “Spinzaku” before…it must be said that comes from Suzaku’s ridiculous spin move, which was present in the show since the first episode of S1 (both as a person and as a pilot). Not explaining that is sloppy, yes, but not “out of character” since it’s a preexisting trait.

    And, for that matter, Suzaku’s changes in allegiance are far from random. Why? Because they do have a visible cause and an effect. Examples of said causes: Euphemia’s death, Shirley’s death, the death of millions in Tokyo, the defeat of the Emperor and finally confronting Lelouch once again (which was the least explained of them all, at the time, but the final episode explicitly indicated that Lelouch had to convince Suzaku off-screen and needed to tell him his final plan to make them allies one last time).

  79. Oroboros says:

    Looks like Souther wins this match-up.

    I accidentally watched season 2 a few years ago before I realized it was the wrong season.

    Then I waited until now to watch the first season, and was pleasantly surprised at how well it fared to the second season. My opinions largely lie between Psgels and Souther’s: pleased at the ambitions of the creators, the broad sketch of the characters, and disappointed at their incompetence at handling certain plots and the end of the season 2 (from what I recall).

    As with every other mecha show, I consciously compared it to the greatest anime of all time (Evangelion) and found Code Geass wanting in certain aspects: dialogue was decidedly inferior, the plot arcs weren’t as tightly focused, and the animation was mediocre in spots. That said, Geass succeeded with the most important element: entertainment. It was entertaining, if not memorable like Puella Magi or Revolutionary Girl Utena. Geass did not deconstruct a genre, nor did it break new grounds. It belongs on the level of Death Note: anti-hero in the role of a protagonist. Oddly in both, the second season blows the potential of the first. Tsk.

  80. Wallace says:

    This is simply the worst anime I’ve ever seen. The plot, cast, EVERYTHING about it is laughable, lacking in subtlety, filled with plot holes, and meant to impress 13 year old kids.

    I’m surprised you even gave it a 7, when it really deserves a 4 and only because the production values were pretty.

  81. Souther says:

    @Wallace:

    I’d seriously have to doubt you could have seen that many anime in your life if this is really the “worst ever” in your opinion.

    In fact, I’d rather be kind and give you a bit more credit by assuming it’s just hyperbole out of anger or disappointment, instead of actual sincerity.

    Of course, I’ve already gone over my views on the series, which I still continue to maintain years after the fact, so I won’t repeat them.

    Unfortunately, it’s too bad exaggerate praise and exaggerated hatred will continue to come from those with knee-jerk reactions instead of moderation. Oh well.

  82. Indigo says:

    I could argue every point of this review easily…

    1) “wants to create a sensation a little too badly” What do you want anime to do then. I love it when anime does this kind of thing. Too often to characters just “run into each other”, or happen to be at the wrong place and wrong time. Seriously, we calling these plot holes now?

    2) SPOILER About the character consistency. The primary changes I can remember are Suzaku’s ideals and Lelouch’s relationship with Rolo. About Suzaku. Lets see. The love of his life die before his eyes. His best friend betray him. He hated and criticized by his own people for “selling out” He turn emo in the second half. That not a big suprise seeing all the things he went through. He saw more of reality and saw he couldn’t be idealistic as he was before and change accordingly. Lelouch’s relationship with Rolo. Seriously? I understand Lelouch hates Rolo but he has a heart unlike Light Yagami. A person who life had no purpose sacrifices everything for him and he decided to be a nice guy in his dying moments. What would have anyone else have done in that situation? These are the biggest ones I can remember and U believe they were done reasonably

    2) The race thing. I think you didn’t really think of every character.
    There are good and bad people in every ethnicity. For Britannia, the Euphie would represent good and well there are alot of bad Britannians. For the Japanese. There were the people in the beginning that were willing to kill their hostages and I personally believe that Suzaku would count as a goody two shoes. The Chinese. Those creepy council members that look like a cult would be the villains and the guy with long black hair would be the knight in shiny white armor. You didn’t really consider everyone.

    3) The dragonball thing. I can only think of 3 characters that came back and admit those are definite plot holes. But 75% seems a bit too far. I can think of 5 other characters that die and aren’t coming back. So that statistics isn’t that accurate.

    4) Now not to sound like a complete fanboy, I acknowledge that it has plot holes but they not as bad as Evangelion and Angel Beats.

    Mao, Nunally, and Suzaku coming back from the dead for reasons unexplain. (I counting Mao because the “shoot to kill” thing sound stupid for a reason he stay alive.)

    Euphie, Suzaku, Lelouch, and Kallen all get hit by a missile and all landed on the same island unscathed.

    Lelouch having a great sense of humor and joking about Japanese genocide with Euphie. He could have said do 50 push ups or dance. Nope gotta be Japanese genocide.

    Yeah, the Charles finale made no sense but I still got to give it props for some of the greatest voice acting I have ever seen.

    Lelouch and Suzaku conquer Britannia in 5 minutes in their school uniform. Why didn’t they do that in episode 2? I don’t know how did they even get in the castle. All Suzaku did was kick some spears. He could have hire some Black Knights or geass a martial artist or body guard to do that.

    Still overall, I would give this anime a 8 out of 10

  83. banagherlinks says:

    actually it’s the bastard son moblie suit gundam 0079, death note and legend of the galactic heroes(the most obvious one code geass copied). First lelouch’s methods and characterization are definitely ripped off from char aznable and his bitter rivalry with fed ace amuro ray.They(char and lelouch) both have personal issues with someone responsible for the death or suffering of someone close to them.

    char= lelouch
    artesia= nunally though sayla/artesia is not as damsel in distress as nunally. Both lelouch and char promised a nation independence by leading them. Char on his conquest for independence during second neo zeon war and lelouch on his skirmishes against Britannian fleet. Both used mask to conceal their identity and for propaganda.

    Same goes for legend of the galactic heroes, only this time code geass wanted to copy the philosophical, military and potical idealism incorporated in LOGH. But fails miserably in doing so.

    Death note is well, the most obvious base for CG. A bored genius taps into a power that can change the world. His reasoning, particularly the end must justify the means is obviously evident. Almost or surpasses rahxephon on copying neon genesis evangelion.

    So all in all, although code geass kinda presents all the cliches it ripped off properly but it definitely fails to outclass it’s predecessors. It is definitely a subgenre anime.

    Well in what aspect aspect or genre code geass really excels?? School life? meccha??? politics??? The answer will be completely none. Indeed, what an overrated series sunrise and pizza hut ambitiously created. *facepalm*

  84. Yoshi says:

    What a shitty review.

    Adding to what many others already said,

    8/10 for production values? This shows you really don’t know anything or are just too bitter to review Geass fairly. Code Geass had money pumped into it and it shows. Top voice acting talent, top animation, a great sound track, a writer that can actually write (he’s a novelist instead of an animator trying to write). I really don’t know what you are expecting from an anime TV series if you only give Code Geass a mere 8/10 when it is one of the very top in terms of production value.
    Subjective categories aside, “production values” is a category that you can’t excuse as a result of mere opinion.

    Also someone said this but I’ll mention it again. People who call Code Geass, whether they like it or not, are one of or a combination of the following:

    1) Adopting another’s opinion.
    2) Afraid to think for themselves.
    2) Afraid of what other people will think of them if they don’t follow suit.
    4) Trying to sound smart.
    5) Like Code Geass but inadvertently change their opinions due to people calling it a trainwreck so much.

  85. Takamura says:

    I agree with @Yoshi what a shitty review.
    This review is completly one sided.
    I mean don’t Get me wrong im not some code geass fanboy ranting but still.
    Trainwreck?? Really?? What kinda sick standard do you have for the medium called anime?
    Well you didn’t even talk about the good parts about the anime and why its entertaining Even with its flaws and plotholes. We’ll i guess you just as much as anyone else is entitled to their opinion.

  86. Takamura says:

    But this review still smells like doo doo!!!

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  88. legtran says:

    Hi, just thought I’d post on an ancient review board/panel/discussion that’s 6 yrs old.

    Just watched R1 based on the IGN anime before you die List. Pretty disappointed. I think the point Souther is trying to make is that the context, the plot of the show, is solid. The creators immediately proceed to throw this excellence to the wind, however, and the show begins to fall apart in the second half of the first season.

    Were there good ideas inherent in the original plot/context? Yes. Were they produced and executed in equal measure? No. This show starts off with very interesting character deaths, character conceits, interesting background plots of characters like C2. The writing unfortunately ran out of steam. As long as we can all admit to ourselves that the show becomes total and utter bullplop, fun though it might be, after around the first ten episodes (am I being too charitable?) then we are being truthful. If however we want to force this ridiculous soap opera into being great art, or great writing, then we are indeed lying to each other and ourselves in an uproarious manner.

    The dividing line for me has to be episode 22. I was definitely on this show’s side leading up to that event, and was waiting for some kind of ingenious reveal, to subplots, character conceits, secret characters. But the way they executed it, even if a tragedy was likely to occur, felt like a betrayal to any hard, constructive work the plot or writing had done up to that point, the work of the story. I think the creators and story got tired out and gave up and got tired of trying to impress and simply decided to take the easy, lazy way out.

    Which is fine. Fun anime is fun anime. We can have fun. No one is saying we can’t have fun. As long as we admit to ourselves that Code Geass is a bit of fun, and nothing to be taken seriously, then we are still in the real world. Getting mad or angry about this twist in the writing, the way the show begins to repeat and become a more extreme example of a Saturday morning cartoon, and then running to the internet to call it a masterpiece, is immature.

    Anime is supposed to distinguish itself from the regular fare on CBS saturday mornings and cartoon network, it’s supposed to be a step above yugi-oh, cardcaptor sakura and batman beyond (when it’s called an anime masterpiece) (actually, I think I’m being a bit unfair here: to batman beyond), and Code Geass achieves this in certain ways but only for a limited time. It unfortunately falls into the tropes of a children’s show and becomes stuck there eventually, to rot forever in the cave of underdeveloped entertainment. I thought this was an entertaining show until Cornelia is constantly not captured, and Lelouche always runs into a battle and the same outcome is produced (he falls down and runs away or gets saved at the last minute), and the chess-board strategy lost its inherent charm by becoming lazy or simple, by tricking people with the geass-eyes and such, and always in random ways, tricking some people and not others, inconsistently effective, turning on at random times.

    I think the creators got lazy. No one’s saying it couldn’t have been massively good. It just doesn’t get there.

  89. legtran says:

    What I mean by lost its inherent charm is the battles became predictable. The tactics and outcomes, unlike earlier on in the series.

    The mountain battle began to produce tropes that would become repeated constantly. Cornelia, todoh acting as defense, suzaku rushing in at the last minute to save cornelia, cornelia’s arrogance, kallen fighting suzaku.

    I guess I liked the ingenious moves like hiding in the city and flanking the enemy or using gorilla warfare, and it does have the landslide, but stupid stuff like this, like blowing up a building below the enemy, become repetitive compared to earlier on in the series.

    Not to mention C2 and Suzaku coming to Lelouche’s rescue at the most opportune times.

    Whatevs.

  90. AnimeMaster says:

    I can’t decide which one is more overrated, Death Note or Code Geass. Hmm…

    • AidanAK47 AidanAK47 says:

      Your bait is too obvious. You need to be more subtle if you want to rile people up. Plus commenting on an old post won’t get you much. It would be better jumping on the newer Episode posts and bashing something that hyped to hell. Re:Zero would be a perfect candidate.
      Even trolling requires effort.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
@Anon, that respect seems on different levels for people though. I mean I seen people championed Yuri on Ice as a major win for LGBT representation in anime while I myself just saw it as queer baiting seeing as the series itself couldn't admit it's characters were gay.
Anonymous1829806
Travlos here: I know many of the AoTitan fans hate the new direction of the manga, but I love it. Gimme more war!

While I love the ideas in Birdy the Mighty, the pace of the mangaka is maddening.
Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
Anonymous1829213
*Shimanami
Anonymous1829213
And in regards to the celebrities themselves acting flamboyant or playing into stereotypes, why do you think those are the ones who are famous? They are allowed to be, because they paint a comical picture that is more easily accepted by the public. This is why Hourou Musuko and manga like Shiranami Tasogare/My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness are so amazing by painting people as actual humans
Kaiser-Eoghan
There ARE good shoujo-ai manga of course, girlfriends, aoi hana and yaoi like haru wo deiteita.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@CoolerAnon: I notice that bisexuality isn't much addressed in these things , the coming out thing doesn't often come into it.
Anonymous1829213
@Other Anon: You might add that a lot of those shows also perpetuate some pretty extreme stereotypes and male light of other of serious issues (i.e. the perception others have of LGBT people and that LGBT people have towards themselves, the experience of coming out, etc. etc.)
Kaiser-Eoghan
By lol coincidence he seems to have also voiced a pokemon character too.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*re-incarnation of, not evolved
Kaiser-Eoghan
Totally based, hilarious guy to, once claimed jokingly in an interview he was the evolved form of pikachu.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: There is a view of the transvestite as a "silly joke character" even in live action media there thats connected to homosexuallity but I'd say in most cases the person themselves is into it, Akihiro Miwa, famous Japanese gay actor played up that flamboyant drag act since the 60s.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: That is well known to me. Also its seen as anti-conform and I heard that the teachers don't know what to do when people are bullied over it, some of them think its down to mental illness.
Anonymous1829154
How japanese media portray lgbtq issues is a problem to this day. Sure shoujo, gender bender, and yaoi genres are mainstream, but at the end of the day people are expected to eventually "grow out of it" and find heterosexual partners in the end. Pretty patronizing
SuperMario
Oh shit, I didn't realize I put Wandering Children instead of Wandering Son in the title. Thanks for pointing that out Kaiser
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Shuu, mai precious lil' Babbu *hugs*
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol Okadas best anime work cause she didn't really write it lol
SuperMario
I will read on the manga to see how these kids growing up. Boy do i love this cast
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose thats fair enough.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah, I know I stretched that image a bit but for some reasons I was goddamn hard to find an image for Wandering Son that I liked. Will make a slideshow later today to see if it looks better
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah I call them by their physical gender because at that stage, they haven't come out yet, right? If I remember correctly, Shuu still regards himself as "boku" rather than "watashi"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I guess this amuses me mostly because theres a jokey line later on in the manga where the girl with shu says "Ha, guess this makes me a lesbian"
Kaiser-Eoghan
There has been some theory/suggestion that Doi is attracted to shuu seeing shuu's femininty, seeing shuu as a woman .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Later in the manga Takatsuki stops having these feelings toward masculinity, which is addressing adolescent confusion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry about this really hope I don't come off as trying to start anything/an arguement/coming off as an asshole here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats really interesting about hourou musuko is that in addition to Takako Shimura being a Lesbian , by choosing a mtf character as the protaganist and with shuu's relationship with a biological woman later in the manga, she is dealing with an even more interesting issue of whats called by Lesbians as Trans-lesbianism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Transexual, mtf or ftm are probably the more accurate words to use as transgender also includes transvestite which is a different thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its a very good review though, you don't have to change anything I'm probably being overly anal about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was wandering Children chosen instead of wandering son to avoid suggesting pronouns in the title? But then the text of the review uses shuus physical rather than psychological gender. I'm not preaching or asking for changes or complaining, I just found this somewhat contradictory.
AidanAK47
Oh Tomogui Kyoushitsu? That is a weird death game manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Checks manga cover* Goes in expecting bondage manga *its a cannibalism horror manga instead*
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably just me, but I feel the top two pictures should have a gap between them.
AidanAK47
I would recommend replacing the top image of wandering son. Cause you killed the quality of it by stretching it. Never stretch an image.
Lenlo
Id recommend some kind of slideshow or something Mario. For me, its a big sudden blob of images. But thats just me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't deny a single criticism of the Junji Ito adaptation, and yet despite it all it works for me , I forgive it because the imagination goes such a long way with me, I don't even mind that some of them aren't fully developed either, don't need things to be too tidy or explain everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Eh, Maverick was a fairly rubbish, thrown in villain but I liked Lunatics backstory how it linked in with the twist his father was that big hero guy mentioned at the start who ended up becoming a washed up mess.
SuperMario
And I won't take "No, you don't need these pics at all" for an answer
SuperMario
Guys, should I put the 2 arts back-to-back at the begin of the post like this, or should I use slideshow?
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: 91 Days was not too bad.
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: Thanks for those two historical manga's head-up.
Anonymous1828434
Akumestu soo satisfying to read
Anonymous1828321
Thank you
Lenlo
A shame. Kokkoku had the first truly dull episode this week. Suppose one had to come eventually, but this one was mostly an info dump.
AidanAK47
Like lightning, I strike. Junji Ito is basically interesting ideas with deeply flawed execution. It's not scary, doesn't really capture Ito's style and the animation is bare bones. While the stories themselves can have there interesting points, they are often not fleshed out enough. Honestly I am getting rather bored with it.
Lenlo
Holy bejesus Aidan. Nice triple post. :P

So overall how is Junji Ito? From what ive read so far, it seems pretty hit or miss on the horror/gore front. Failing to live up to the manga. I havnt read it though, so im curious what ya think
AidanAK47
Akumetsu?
Anonymous1828142
Wearing a mask
Anonymous1828142
What was the name of the manga where the main character is some superhuman high school student who goes around fighting Japanese politicians
Lenlo
On a side note, I should really start Violet Evergarden at some point...
Lenlo
"Anime is dying" is just a meme that gets thrown around because of Miyazaki.
Lenlo
Maybe. I dont think average score per year is a good metric though, as the cash ins are increasing, but I doubt the passion projects are decreasing. For instance we had /alot/ of duds this year, but people only really remember/care about the good ones of which there was a fair number. It wasnt a bad year for decent/good anime.
AidanAK47
Well yeah, but they didn't have as many Animation studios back then as we do right now. So it's not so much that we lost artistic merit but rather the number of studios cashing in on popular trends for a quick buck have increased. Even then, I am willing to put money on there being just as much harem anime in yesteryear as we have cute girls shows in present.
Lenlo
Perhaps, but I would argue those were on smaller scales, and even then, thats not so different from Western animation or movies. Just look at Warner Bros and their DC push after the success of Marvel. Every industry has those who chase successful trends, yet they arnt failing
AidanAK47
@lenlo, the thing is though that before Moe crap there was eva copy crap and before eva copy crap you had space opera crap and before space opera crap you had hyperviolet OVA crap. The industry has always tried to cash in on a popular trend.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel people went apeshit over, say highschool of the dead because they never saw a bunch of old B/exploitation films, thus that show was never special to me and even failed at an imitation of such.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think people getting to excited for it being unique to a single medium or for, its setting themselve up for disappointment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I just think its incredibly limited thinking to base it all on just ONE medium, you CAN hold up anime to film when anaylzing anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why should 91 days get a free pass just because its an anime about gangsters? Go watch a film about it instead which theres probably many of, joker game fail you as the mature spy thriller it ended up not being, who cares, Tinker tailor soldier spy exists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I dislike this "Its unique for an anime/manga to do this, so instantly lets latch on to it, despite fact that same something is already extremely prevalent in other mediums "
Kaiser-Eoghan
Case in point 91 days and Joker game "It has adults, lets pre-rejoice before the show even came out"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel though because of the level of dissatisfaction with said moe shows that people are going to leap far too quickly on anything just slightly different, getting their hopes up too high and end up feeling let down.
Lenlo
That, or it all comes crashing down around our ears. With stuff like Houseki no Kuni and Made in Abyss from last year however, I think its going to be ok. We are just getting inundated with crap right now.
Lenlo
I do think that some of the artistic part of it has been lost, its gotten diluted in the never ending river of Moe crap. But that doesnt mean its gone. Just harder to find. Eventually all the random moe shows no one cares about will fail and stop getting made. But the anime audience will still be around, to enjoy the better stuff thats left.
Lenlo
Same thing happened in the mid/late 90's and early 00's to American cartoons.
Lenlo
Eh, I dont think anime is dying. Changing no doubt. Its going through a rough growth stage right now. It has a bigger audience than ever and people are trying to cash in on that with lots of shows that are basically the same
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Tank you and damn you for posting screencap of loli-tachibana, I now have cuteness overload a diabeetus =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I realize thats a very minor detail to focus on though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I can really really get into a history manga if the art is top quality, the costume designs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the historical thing, I have a massive I repeat massive thing for full body medieval armoured characters hacking the shit into things or just the armour in general , especially templar armour designs. I also have an little obsession with male aristocratic army uniforms from the Prussian era and world war 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That recent Urasawa manga Travlos mentioned is ending also
@Mario: We might get a complete adaptation of after the rain, the manga is ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More historical manga I found, haven't read the second one however, I didn't hear those two mentioned on here either before.
Kaiser-Eoghan
[link src="http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hawkwood
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Ad-Astra-Scipio-to-Hannibal"]
AidanAK47
@Anon, yes clearly you know better than everyone else on the planet despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up you claims. Thank you nameless Stranger, we owe you a debt for telling us the same thing we hear every year. Let me congratulate you by kicking you out the door.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can generally come up with an opinion for what I follow/watch/read , but I don't really have one on kokkuu.
KTravlos
Well we watched the first episode of Kokkuku. Interesting. The ED theme is quite the fanservice.
SuperMario
@Ktravlos: If your like to check out some other shows this season then I'd definitely recommend After the Rain.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: at least Kino is thought-provoking. I can't say the same for Violet Evergarden. In fact I remain skeptical with VE
KTravlos
I am quite enjoying both Violet Evergarden and Mahoutsukai. Violet gives me similar vibes to the first Kio series, though obviously Kino was a better series.
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
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