Posted by psgels on 31 December 2008 with categories: Anime Reviews, Mouryou no Hako


The past fall season aired a lot of good and great series, but none of them was as good as this series: Mouryou no Hako, Madhouse’s latest masterpiece. This is one series that did just about everything right. Obviously it’s not for those who don’t like people talking over and over again, but it’s perfect for those who are looking for mature and complex anime. This is how mystery should be done!

I honestly can’t recall any other anime apart from a Mamoru Oshii-production that puts more emphasis on talking as this one. The series follows a string of bizarre murders, and the people who try to solve it. This whole mystery is multi-layered, it’s full of flashbacks and references, you’ll never know when something that passes the screen is important for the future. There are lots of scenes that don’t necessarily have any direct meaning, but instead are there to flesh out the setting or throw the viewer on a side-track, and yet the series itself never loses track of its goals, and everything comes together in the end in one of the best endings I’ve seen.

Another big selling-point of the series is its cast of characters. They hardly get as much screen time or background as your average anime, and yet they’re utterly amazing. The animation knows exactly what it needs to do to show their subtle movements and gestures in order to flesh them out while many other things happen, and the background that’s there is meaningful and has a huge impact. Every character has his or her own distinctive presence, with the best ones being Kanako and Akihiko, both for very, very different reasons. The entire cast is colourful and a delight to watch, despite the huge amounts of talking within this series.

Also, if you thought that shows as Code Geass is disturbing, then you haven’t seen anything yet. I refuse to spoil anything here, but like a few other Madhouse productions, this series breaks taboo after taboo. This is nothing near your average tame detective story.

Then the visuals: they look utterly incredible. Especially in the beginning episodes and episodes, the characters all look crisp and very detailed. The animators throw the most beautiful shots and visual effects at the viewer. Combine that with an awesome soundtrack, and you’ve got some amazing production values.

The only possible turn-off is, like mentioned above, the large amounts of talking: if you don’t like it, then it’s going to be hard to enjoy this series. There are two particular consecutive episodes, where nothing else happens apart from three guys, sitting in a room and talking to each other. This anime isn’t afraid to take risks, even though it might turn off some people.

So overall, this has been an amazing series. The script is fresh and creative and has a huge impact. There’s a lot of symbolism, both visual and in the storyline, and an excellent recommendation for those who look for a short mature series. The storytelling is strong yet subtle, and it’s yet another masterpiece by Madhouse.

Storytelling: 10/10
Characters: 9/10
Production-Values: 9/10
Setting: 9/10

22 Responses

  1. supertauren says:

    I WILL WATCH THIS SHOW!

  2. L.A says:

    I thought…

    The stroy was okay,
    Characters were really mediocire,
    and Animation was fantastic

    If you like this kind of detective or the mystery series, I recommend you to watch Ghost in the Shell SAC.

  3. Windspirit says:

    “Also, if you thought that shows as Code Geass is disturbing”
    >> LOL.

  4. zakuro says:

    I wholeheartedly agree with you! The best of 2008! (If ‘Shinrei-Gari/Ghost Hound’ ended early in 2008 counted as a candidate, I’d put this one as the second… but I think GH should be considered 2007.)
    Actually the ‘only talking, nothing happening’ episodes 6th & 7th were the ones completely blown my mind! The camera work (well, can I say ‘camera work’ in animation? I believe so!) in the two eps were extraordinary! I’m so hoping Aero will stick to work on ep. 7 & beyond.

  5. PJ says:

    I watched the first two episodes and I thought the show did a poor job of making the story “digestable”. The girl got pushed into the path of the train, there’s a box of limbs (near the same place she was transferred to since I remember the people driving to check it out and then ran into the hospital), the box in the head, etc. It seems like every element is sort of nonsensical, there’s no sequence and everything’s “just there.” I know the point of the show is to reveal the connections, but when you throw too many characters, things happening and scene changes with different characters – it just becomes extremely annoying. I didn’t watch far enough, but I read on a summary that the girl who got pushed also lost her limbs? I mean, you might as well summarize the story randomly: a dog sneezed on a butterfly and that caused a girl to lose her eye, which was found by a man who turned into the serial killer.

  6. Requiem says:

    I’ve been wanting to watch this series since it was announced but sadly there are no subs for it.

  7. Koh-san says:

    As a followup to my comment for episode 13, I re-watched some parts, and it’s becoming clearer. Reading the English wiki entry for the author Natsuhiko Kyougoku, with its bit about the tsukimono-otoshi, indicates to me that this story strikes a delicate balance. There’s just a slight bit of science fiction in the form of advanced medical technology, and an extensive grounding of supernatural lore, but the story itself is an elaborate, fact-based, detective story. All the talk of spirits by Kyougokudou is to be taken primarily as a metaphor for human psychology. The irony is that Kyougokudou sees himself more as an exorcist than a detective. Yet his brilliant mind sees the connections with the clarity of the best of the empiricists. I’m going to need to watch this again. All the clues are in the show, probably. It’s just not spoon-fed to the audience in a simple-to-digest summary at the end. Also, his sister Atsuko does a lot of legwork for him. His friends Kiba, Sekiguchi, and Aoki also feed him information. He doesn’t divine things in a vacuum.

  8. zakuro says:

    Actually, ‘ve posted a few long comments, and others are posting interesting ones at this blog.
    Be warned: ‘spoilers’ included in the comments there!

  9. chanpon says:

    Just finished this series (with the last 7, subless) and I was blown away. I’m dying to get subs for the last half so I can re-watch and catch all the little details I missed, and I stumbled onto your blog looking to fill in some gaps in what I could make out.

    I wholeheartedly agree with you! What a fantastic story – it certainly makes the audience work and think, and I love it. A complex and provocative mystery with a fascinating cast of characters. I appreciate that you can’t watch 2 episodes and label everyone that appears; they’re actually multi-dimensional vs. one-note stereotypes. Loved the atmoshere that was part melancholy, nostalgia and old-fashioned horror rolled into one. I bought the OST to this and highly recommend it, if you liked the music to this show.

  10. zir says:

    Can you upload the ost?

  11. Mark says:

    Ghost Hound was shit, IMO. It offered some promise in the beginning and then totall fell flat on it’s face by the end. I went from intrigue to total disgust and disappointment in a matter of moments. It’s not deserving of any award, except perhaps “Most glaring failure to deliver on it’s promise (of 2007)”

    Mouryou, I agree, seems quite awesome, so far. I’m only on episode 7 so I’m only a bit past the halfway point (due to fansubbing progress) but it seems to be a pretty multi-layered mystery, which I always like. The supernatural and mythological/occult elements also raise interest levels.

    Though I didn’t understand many of the cultural allusions made in those two ‘talking’ episodes, by the second one I was beginning to grasp what they’re getting at, and I can pretty much say my mind = blown.

    The symbolism and the whole mouryou figures as things existing on borders, etc, and the whole box thing is really beginning to make my mind question wtf is going on. I’m coming to expect a lot from this series (so far the only fall 2008 show I find myself caring about) I just hope it manages to deliver in the end, unlike Ghost Hound.

  12. zir says:

    I think Ghost Hound was good, but the ending was kinda dissapointing.

  13. kiyosuke says:

    i have to say i wish that a) i knew japanese or b) subs would come out with episodes past 8. i may have not looked hard enough but i couldnt find subbed eps so i just watched a few raw and finished it by reading these reviews. i really liked this anime and wish i could have finished watching it subbed. it really takes a lot out and by reading these reviews it makes me want to watch it more, reading how good the ending sounded. i guess ill just unfortunately have to wait but until then ill try watching the rest of the eps raw~ thx for the reviews :]

  14. Solaris says:

    So no subs since January… Isn’t this one of the best 2008 series? What else are subbers subbing? Damn!!

  15. Shinkun says:

    It is extremely difficult to translate! :(

  16. specracer says:

    Sweet now that the subs are almost done I can pick it back up

  17. windy says:

    Well, personally I found this series both amazing and way too difficult to understand the whole plot even now that I watched it with subtitles! Too many characters involved, too many diverging facts and occurances, actually I don’t think I got it all right, was it really Yoriko who pushed Kanako, then she IS the “first culprit” isn’t it? Why, because she believed in afterdeath and found out her friend wasn’t “perfect”?! I believe the logic here is particularly twisted. There are a lot of questions unresolved here and there which really disturbs me. Why Kanako ever told Yoriko ” she was her and all that incredible stuff” is still a big mystery for me. Then okay, Amemiya ( at least I managed to get that he had a crush on Kanako, why? Did he fall in love with her while he was raising her along with Youko?! Kinda hard to swallow, all this!) turned out to be behind the abduction of Kanako ( at least of her head)and Youko’s father behind all the other murders, yet again can’t be sure of that one! Then Kiba, or whatever, the one who was thought to be the culprit and who was discovered dead and dismembered, what was his part in it, he killed Yoriko, why the hell ( did he read about her friendship with Kanako in the newspapers, at least I don’t see how else, whi did he accost her and why was she on the list of ” people to be killed”? Did he thought that he may recreate the same “masterpiece” with her head as it was done with the head of Kanako by Amemiya?! And when he went all berserk after seeing Kanako’s shot at the restaurant, it was because he remembered having seen her head “inboxed” in the train?! With all this, I wasn’t able to enjoy this at the fullest, way too confusing and tangled. But nevertheless , it’s still a memorable series for me, really if only they had taken more time to explain all the dubious situations we were put into and had extended this series to at least 26 episodes, that would have been the right choice, because the pace would have been slowed down which would enable us to “follow the tracks” and not to be blown astray on the way! But, yeah, taken that aside, a gorgeous series with lots of creativity and brilliant thoughtfulness behind.

  18. midenz says:

    It was such an amazing series, at first it felt boring, but I’m glad I picked it back up! It’s amazing in every way! Oh did you watch episode 14? I was just wondering since you didn’t have it blogged

  19. mdv says:

    midenz…
    dude… there’s only 13 episodes.

  20. mdv says:

    nvm… it’s a Special…

  21. Fai says:

    So I finally re-watched this series 3 years later (marathon), and not only am I completely blown away, but I also think this has been perhaps one of the most solid story I’ve watched in the past year.

    To anyone who still has questions remaining, I would probably recommend to watch the series again as well as most of your questions have been answered.

    SPOILERS SPOILERS
    To answer some of Windy’s questions:
    – Yes. Amemiya did “kidnap” Kanako because he was obsessed with her
    – No. Kanako’s father was not the one who killed the other women. That was Kubo. He became envious of Kanako’s head in the box and wished to recreate that, not realizing that it would take some really heavy scientific technology.
    – Youko was killed because she was next on list of followers who believed in Kubo’s father (the priest). Although she didn’t follow the cult, her mother did, and once her mother was unable to pay her dues, she was targeted. The list was written in alphabetical order. Although now that it’s mentioned, I wonder how Kubo knew that Youko was friends with Kanako.
    – and yes. I think that’s why he went berserk.
    END SPOILERS

    As psgels has noted earlier, a lot of the things that develop in this series is quite subtle, and that’s what I love about it. The great thing about Mouryou no Hako is that it trusts the reader to fill up the rest of the storyline instead of spoon-feeding us every single message.

  22. GravityBomb says:

    As much as I normally agree with you, I have to argue with you on this one. I don’t really think that this series was 92.5 worthy. (Now don’t be hating guys, I’ll give my reasons :)). Maybe like 75 or so, but not as high. (And I know this is from 2008, but my anime club just watched it this fall semester.)

    To me, this is a series that demonstrates bad anime direction or choice of material to adapt. While I’m not saying that they should’ve spoon-fed us the story or what have you, but even to me, who loves talky shows a lot, this was just a lot of talking heads 70% of the time and suffered from massive ‘Take Our Word For It’. I mean, when you sit down and think about it, the story alone is amazing. No lie there. But the way that it was handled was just batshit insane. Characters that just kind of drop in out of nowhere and then just disappear from the show or return in random spots. The imagery seeming to try and replicate Utena’s weird symbolism. But what drove me nuts was the two episodes dedicated to exposition dropping all about the mouryou, at which point I actually stopped reading the subs and started spacing out. And while the ending episodes were really the better ones, when you info dump about the whole plot in 23 or so minutes while having barely resolved any of the more important aspects beforehand or resolving things that no one really cared for, it says a lot. To me, when that happens, you did something wrong.

    I say this a lot to people, but in this case I think it’s totally justified: this should have been a 26 episode series, and even if it didn’t want to be that long, a few more episodes would have helped a lot (I know that’s not possible, but one can dream). Or, if nothing else, some parts should have been narrowed down and others expanded upon to flesh out the story and motivations more. It just seems like the staff had no idea what part of the story to focus on. It starts out with the whole creepy science building thing, then just whips around to the cult, then u-turns right back to the ‘hospital’ after leaving it out for around 6+ episodes. While I get that adapting a novel that was very detailed (I’m told) can be challenging, there are better ways to adapt a story and this just kinda falls flat.

    While this is a very interesting show and the story is great when you piece everything together, Ryosuke Nakamura (who isn’t a bad director) just kinda fumbled with it. I’ve actually noticed that no one who worked on this series is bad at what they do, it’s just that this series is what I would consider one of their weakest.

    Again, I’m not ragging on anyone who liked the show. Far from it. :) I love the character designs and the show is beautifully animated. It did a great job at creeping me the hell out. The leads are all entertaining to watch (even in their weirder moments) and you wanna know how the whole thing is going to be resolved by these guys, which is really important to a mystery. But the direction was just…everywhere, the choices on what to emphasize odd, the unnecessary two episodes info dumping on the audience when it could’ve been done in easily 6 minutes or less (leaving more room for the actual story) per episode, it seriously needed a more focused path/cutting out the bits that were just unnecessary, and sometimes this series was just too subtle for it’s own good.

    It’s definitely worthy of a 75 (or so)/100 for being unique. :)

    Thanks for reading anyone and please (again) know I’m not bashing!

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Kaiser-Eoghan
*those
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hearing these , I find myself much more tolerant of anime voice acting even if the dub might only be okay.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its actually less of a sync issue, as I'm talking about 60s dubs , alot of people think the voices in old anime English dubs from the 90s are dated, but the old sixties kungfu and western dubs are shocking, far worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't mind sometimes satirical dubbing like on tiger lily , dialectics break bricks and kung pow however.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And those can be difficult to acquire sometimes in Italian or Chinese.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Live action films, this is especially annoying sometimes because I love Spaghetti westerns and Chinese martial arts films and old Italian cop thrillers.
Anonymous2137430
@Kaiser-Eoghan Are you referring to foreign animated films of foreign live action films because dubbing live action is a different beast as I'm sure you're aware. The idiosyncratic nature of watching moves and facial expressions not properly match voices really pulls the viewer out of the experience
SuperWooper
LoGH is airing a special next week because of scheduling delays, so that's one less thing to do.
AidanAK47
Well to those whom it might concern, expect my posts to be later than usual this week. Work is hell at the moment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have to say, this is probably a bit hypocritical, but while I enjoy dubs of anime I really really can't stand dubs of foreign films.
Lenlo
Simo Hayha would make a pretty crazy Archer.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine a fate strange fake adaptation will materialize eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But everyone seems to want that Finnish sniper as a Fate servant .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still no Mao, still mad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I have lost track of the historical characters in the fate lineup.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, to expand on that point the following historical figures are now female: Nero Claudius, Leonardo da Vinci, Frankenstein's Monster, Xuanzang, Jing Ke, Quetzalcoatl, Minamoto no Yoshitsune, Miyamoto Musashi, Okita Souji and many more to come.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I find it's an enjoyable watch though flawed. If you can get past some odd fanservice around the first ten episodes then I say it's worth watching.
Anonymous2133468
So i was thinking if i start watching, darling in the franxx, is worth it? or is just another 6/10 anime?
Lenlo
God damnit. Why Nasu. Just why.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, that ain't even Lewd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In all seriousness its ridiculous, the Japanese will make a cute/moe girl out of anything.
AidanAK47
....Should I also mention that Francis Drake is a big boobed pirate queen?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Posting lewd images on a respectable chatbox.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, But none of these characters are in the anime adaptions. Well besides Jack and Saber.
Lenlo
Aidan, all this conversation did was prove that my decision to only ever watch the Ufotable adaptions was the correct decision.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, you can blame Extella for the Attlia the Hun thing. I wasn't too fond of it myself. Also should mention Attila is female as well.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6414/528599445b739909c02993cfdbfc9f277d088cf2_hq.jpg
AidanAK47
Also Masky I will be the first to admit to the ridiculous aspects of the Fate Franchise but do take note that you are commenting on something you know literally nothing about. Which is the very definition of ignorance and is quite annoying. Fate/Zero nails the themes it's going for. So go watch Fate/Zero, come back and apologize.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Give it time. Genghis is getting in there eventually with Grand Order. We just had Anastasia and Salieri introduced after all. And it's not as if this story introduces Servants willy nilly, they need actual story purpose. Genghis Khan wouldn't have fit the Narrative that Fate/Zero was going for.
Lenlo
Wait Attila is an Alien and Edison is a Lion? God damnit Fate. Why are you doing this to me. I was already annoyed at your treatment of Musashi
Masky
(aliens existing in the show is good example of that missing on themes part xP)
Masky
*most successful conqueror
Masky
Honestly was just amused most conqueror of all time not being featured in the show :D But wait, whats this about aliens?
AidanAK47
Anyway the important thing to take into account is that in the Fate universe, King Arthur is a woman, Attila the Hun is an Alien, Thomas Edison is a lion and Jack the Ripper is a little girl in a dominatrix outfit. Any questions?
AidanAK47
And while you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes, it does leave you ignorant of how that show handles those ideas and themes.
AidanAK47
As for the Historical Alexander, he wasn't given the title of King of Couquerors. Fate/Zeros interpretation of him was. As generally accurate Fates interpretation of Servents history can be, they can make changes to suit the narrative.
AidanAK47
In that Regard Alexander was doing the conquest thing before Ghengus did. Ghengus likely has some other title. Hell he may only have the title because public consciousness was is more familiar with Alexander than Ghengus.
AidanAK47
Yeah, looking it up seems the King Title lost quite a lot of meaning in the Nasuverse. Though the King Title is rather flimsy. I mean Arthur is the King of Knights cause of the Knights of the round table. Gil is king of heroes because his tale was the first Heroic myth.
Lenlo
I think Alexander was just the first one they thought of, and they couldnt retroactively give it to someone else.

That said, Broskander deserves it <3
Masky
(And no, you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes of it.)
Masky
(just to note in case I need to note, I do tend to do at least cursory research when I make comments on stuff I don't watch)
Masky
That first part is semantics as Fate gives title "King" to historical figures who weren't kings already :D Also, you can make that argument about historical Alexander the Great? Since that seriously sounds like kind of weak reason.
AidanAK47
Also sees Rider as deserving of title of "King of Conquerors" because that which he strives to conquer most is not lands or material wealth, but the hearts of people, the toughest conquest that can be undertaken by anyone.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Ghengis Khan wasn't a king. He was a Khan.
Lenlo
Ghengis is always a Rider in my mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, Ghengis would be an appropriate beserker servant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Masky: I know, it feels so wrong I'm still mad I can't summon Karl Marx or Stalin.
Masky
So wait, Fate series is about historical figures with super powers, but "King of Conquerors" title isn't given to Ghengis Khan? :D Seriously? Thats just so wrong
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't feel any point in finishing it, it feels like something that I'd just randomly drop , not because its a bad show, but because I got my fill of it.
AidanAK47
I am actually going to drop blogging it.
AidanAK47
@Sash, indeed. I have been watching it but not blogging it for the last few episodes because it just hasn't givne me anything to say. I don't think it's a bad show but I have pointed out the flaws and strengths of it already so there is truly nothing more to say on it.
Sash
I think wotakoi is starting to feel repetitive..
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware Shana and Batman Ninja Harelequinn are both voiced by Rie kugimiya.
Lenlo
I did. It was... It was a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Did you end up watching Batman ninja by the way?
Lenlo
Music is great, yeah. When the music is on point, everything goes up. Everytime the sync the fight/punches to the music I just get hyped. Like the rotating shot with Aragaki or the first fight in episode 1.
Lenlo
Ill do my best to be clearer in the future on that front. Yeah, I dont mind twists like this. Makes the inevitable Mikio fight, narratively, even better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel the music does alot of the lifting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, so that was it.
Lenlo
Sorry if I never made that clear.
Lenlo
I would rather have fewer, amazing, fights than a lot of low-quality fights. This is a one cour show, the more meaning/impact they can give each fight the better.

Like Aragaki, narratively, was great. Loved it. Its just in animation/choreography that it falls flat.
Lenlo
Im disappointed with the animation of the fights. Narratively, I think they are quite good.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*disappointed with the fights in past episodes
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Pretty much what I said I thought of the episode. Although I was surprised how took the episodes ending, I expected you to see it as a slap in the face after being disappointed with the fights.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, I thought Megalo Box did something unique this episode. I wasn't expecting Joe to *not* fight. And the Mikio/Yukiko proxy war is an interesting character motivation. Im betting Yukiko will get Joe a full citizenship, effectively getting her on his side.
Lenlo
I wish I was physically capable of watching Megalo Box without thinking of Hajime no Ippo. I really do. But everytime I watch it, it makes me want to watch Ippo again to.
Anonymous2120908
I watched some more of the Chimera family chinese anime. (Wasn't aware it was monthly released). And geez, I like the concept, the background art is very pretty and contrasts with settings that have become tired in other anime. Yet sadly the animation and script are WEAK. I haven't grasped the quality of what's expected of these types of production but I want to believe, they're trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not much in the way of action in megalobox this week, but I did like the focus on Yukkiko getting a small character moment and then the big moment at episodes end .
AidanAK47
@Anon, That's some lazy ass trolling buddy. Should have stopped before the hashtags.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm even sort of looking forward to supposedly less respectable stuff like Goblin slayer and happy sugar life.
Vonter
Also E3 is almost here. And I can't wait. I think Nintendo will have a good show considering they're revealing the new Smash with a tournament. There's rumors of the new game by Retro Studios (Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong) and maybe they'll reveal something about how Pokemon will be on the Switch.
Vonter
Also there's always the chance of something new being discovered. Not everything needs expectations behind. Sometimes great things come out of nowhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So yes, there are some at least decent shows coming out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Muh Baki, Muh Bananna fish, muh made in abyss season 2, muh Vinland.
Anonymous2119906
The rest of this year looks like shit for anime and 2019 doesn't look great either #fuckmoe #makeanimegreatagain
Anonymous2119214
@Kaiser yeah it happened in half the amount of eps this time around for steins gate 0; which i expected considering there's a lot of ground to cover
Anonymous2119106
@Supermario Something like Fate or the LOTR films are a different case. I get where you're coming from about your preference, but I'm arguing that if a large story is going to be split into 3 films, it helps that the 3 films feel cleanly cut. Infinity war, even though we know there's a second part to the story, feels like it has that cohesive narrative structure with a beginning, middle, and end
Anonymous2119106
@Super Mario yea but the marvel movies are a different situation so i don't think the comparison is as appropriate. Marvel movies are "episodic" in nature rather than a continuous narrative. The films are largely isolated stories that are happening in a similar universe that only happen to "congeal" narratively because of a few overarching details shared between films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I remember when the original series suddenly shifted and got going and it was a really depressing episode.
Lenlo
Oh baby. The storm has finally come in Steins;Gate. Let the true suffering commence
SuperMario
@anon2118276: that's why I don't like LoTR trilogy. It's still a whole body chopped up in 3 parts, despite how clean the cut is. Whereas for me it works better if it was like a branch in a tree. The Marvel movies (despite my disinterest on those) are a good example of this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I did feel some of this weeks steins gate felt fillery, I do like see these characters interact and given the episodes conclusion, this episode acted as a calm before the storm.
Lenlo
Ill agree with you on King Kong. As for the Ralph Bakshi LotR, I have. I am still to this day impressed by the overlay of 2D art onto real/overexposed footage. It makes for shockingly fluid animation in places and has its own distinct style
Anonymous2118208
@Lenlo - Have you watched the old Ralph Bakshi adaptation of the first two books? It's uneven, but it's interesting comparing and contrasting certain decisions. As good as Peter Jackson is, I feel he makes very longwinded films, I like his version of King Kong a lot, but it is too long.
Anonymous2118276
@supermario i disagree; the point is that even though the LOTH films have cliffhanger endings, they still feel like fils. they have a defined first second and third act with well paced tension and release throughout them. They follow a storytelling macrostructure necessary for films to feel like cohesive narratives even if they are to end on a cliffhanger
Lenlo
I quite liked the individual LOTR movie just fyi
Vonter
Marvel surprisingly has kept their movies simple enough, that while you might miss details nowadays, you can tell what's happening.
Vonter
Another bad case is like with Assassin's Creed, which like Lost, just tried to tease a lot of things, then it grew tired of trying to piece them together and let the last games work more standalone, with little hints of a larger lore.
Vonter
Metroid does both, it has a standalone story and a hint to what a sequel might bring. Though that hint rarely matters by the time the new game is released.
Vonter
@SuperMario - Some videogames trilogies also do that. Gears of War and God of War had good standalone beginnings but by the second game they put cliffhanging endings. Kingdom Hearts does that and I expect 3 to also do it. Megaman Legends and Half Life had incomplete stories, which might be the worse case in regards to trying to make a continuous story.
SuperMario
It ruins the appetite
SuperMario
I actually think Lord of the Rings' trilogy is a bad example to follow. These films are meant to be viewed as a whole, so each film doesn't hold much as an individual story. I just can't digest films that have "to be continued" sign at the end. Imagine having a first course meal and then have to wait for few days for second course
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the current topic, I would be well for the production of a long running, ambitious ova series.
Anonymous2116425
then again, i don't take too much issue with these films feeling like movie-sized eps...the wait just sucks is all
Anonymous2116425
clearly the films need each other to tell the whole story, yet they can be taken for what they are in isolation as well
Anonymous2116425
I don't mind the trilogy trend at all; like Aidan said, when everything is said and done, all the films will be available to watch. I just think a stronger attempt should be made to make them feel like complete films. Something like the lord of the rings trilogy is a great example of how to do this
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am in full confidence that neither I nor Miura will survive to the end of berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course maybe they won't have a future , think about it that way, then they'd never see it, life has that weird way of being unpredictable like that =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
You can always rewatch them just before watching the one after.
AidanAK47
Of course not. But that's the thing. The wait is only a temporary problem. Anyone in the future will have all movies ready to view.
SuperMario
So it's best to wait for another 2 years to watch Heaven's Feel? Hell NOT
AidanAK47
When all the movies come out though you can basically barrel through it like a TV series.
SuperMario
Dangit, it's me Mario
Anonymous2115918
I still don't know if I like this trilogy trend. We've had a fair bun h of those in recent years (Berserk Golden Age, Madoka, even Kizumonogatari). I guess doing it that way, they'd make much more profits, and we have higher production values, but the wait is way too long and I don't think it works as movie-format
Kaiser-Eoghan
One of the very rare times where self-awareness works.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can be nice and say of course Ryan Reynolds+ violence, comic was funnier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But I'm sure if you think it over, the first deadpool was trapped in origin story mode, as an advantage, the sequel, is probably free of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Deadpool 2 had John Wicks director, which at the least means something in terms of action direction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: There was a whole run of deadpool issues called Cable and deadpool, which I suppose that pairing together gets the best out of the character.
AidanAK47
Seen Deadpool 2 tonight and I have difficultly deciding if it's better or worse than Deadpool 1. Still it's quite fun and I enjoyed it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I feel somewhat similar in regards to Franxx. When this series finishes I won't be singing high praises for it. Yet I do feel that it's worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Now I get ya. Yeah I understand that. I might even feel the same if I didn't already know the story from the VN.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The second film seems to be in cinema this year but we won't get it until it hits blu-ray.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: As I expected, I am disappointed that they have held back . And you might just be right about Castrollop/Caligula/Nero, when I originally attempted to watch the show years ago, that was the episode I stopped on.
KTravlos
Yang really is stealing the show this time. But I wanted the "Alcohol is mankind's oldest friend" rant. I need it.
KTravlos
my expectation is that they will take this to the Battle of Armistar, and then the films will cover the dual civil wars etc.
KTravlos
...CASTROP REBELLION! Why the hell sacrifice an episode to the most useless and bad part of the original! I hated that episode. Well let us see if they can give it a better twist this time around.
KTravlos
The Iserlohn arc at LGOGH:NT was ok. I liked how they presented the preparations. I like the new Murai face. The music was quite good. But they did tone the violence. I expected Walter to stab the imperial officer in the neck. They have toned down the violence a lot. And I missed Seeckts "Long live the Empire" death. That said it was not bad, and I think in general it was good adaption. But....
Anonymous2115268
for example, I think Darling in the franxx is pretty average, but that's not because i think it doesn't have cool shit in it or things that make it appealing; I just find that what the show tries to achieve is not that stupendous or worth lauding with praise. As a result, the flaws stick out that much more to me
Anonymous2115268
@Lenlo and that's pretty much how i felt. Everything is subject to criticism; hell i criticize my most favorite things in the world because i know they're not perfect. I evaluate art and media on whether what it achieves overshadows the flaws and to what degree. Which i think is the best way to approach criticism
Lenlo
I want to repeat though, Heavens Feel wasn't bad. I know some people take any criticism to mean I hated it, but I actually quite enjoyed it. I just think ill appreciate/enjoy it more once the other 2 movies are also out.
Lenlo
@Anon, you nailed it. I couldnt describe it, but what you said /feels/ right.

And Aidan, I loved Lindsay Ellis's videos on the whole Hobbit debacle. A shame, cause the original Lord of the Rings is a landmark in film for me.
Amagi
@Aidan: Do we know if the next HF movie will be finished this year?
Amagi
I love how and how often they say "Fujimi no Sugimoto" in Golden Kamuy. It's pretty hype for some reason, especially when it's said by his enemies.
Anonymous2114206
yea. heaven's feel is nothing like the situation with peter jackson's hobbit; this story needs this many movies and that large runtime. The thing with these heavens feel films that is probably bothering lenlo is that they feel like very long episodes and that particularly the first film felt like a giant prologue rather than a film with a beginning, middle, and end
AidanAK47
And just to make it clear, Heavens Feel needs at least three movies to cover the entire story. It's too big for one movie.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I ain't unhappy about it though. Sucks that I need to wait so long for each movie but there is higher production values as a result. Though in regards to the Hobbit I recommend watching Lindseys Eillis videos on it. As it not only talks about how it screwed the Hobbit but also how the movies screwed New Zealand.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I could never immerse myself in Tolkienistic world building.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Man, the hobbit, lord of the rings and that shit king kong film, he sold out so much , this was the man who gave me Heavenly creatures , Braindead and Feebles.
Lenlo
It is very beautiful indeed. And Aidan, that Hobbit metaphor made me weep for you. I hated what happened to the Hobbit
Anonymous2112805
other than that; HF is a very beautiful looking film; ufotable has improved with their digital compositions...holy crap
Anonymous2112805
heaven's feel seems to be embracing its more horrific elements. Aside from that, watching this film made me realize how much i prefer rin over the rest of the girls; kinda wish we got to spend a bit more time understanding Sakura's psyche in the film
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: This was part of some film fest thing, ended up missing big fish Begonia though, that Chinese animated thing =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: they'd invited him to introduce the flick.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Had this really unexpected run in, in my nearest arthouse cinema, seeing some film about the Soviet space program , I bump into this eastern European guy, assume he's an audience member, awkwardly say something in Russian to him, turns out he's the Russian federation ambassador to Ireland.
AidanAK47
It's sort of the hobbit situation where they chopped one book into three. Expect here we aren't getting extra fluff to pad things out. Well there are extra scenes but they are actually relevant.
Point is that in it's orignal form there are no stopping points here were you need to wait a year to continue. It was a straight story from start to finish.
AidanAK47
Well Fate is essentially the tutorial section that introduces most of the concepts and whatnot. But even then some of the things here are explained later in Heaven's Feel. Cause yeah, not only is the Fate/Stay Night VN not supposed to be split up into three seperate things, the routes aren't supposed to be split into movies either.
Lenlo
Im only familiar with the UBW route, cause Ufotable
Lenlo
I see.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, In a way there is. Heaven's Feel was originally meant to be experience after the Fate and UBW routes of the VN. That the thing Fate/Stay Night has struggled with. It's not meant to be split up into three like this. It's originally supposed to be three parts of a whole. Each route complementing another.
Nayrael
And so am I
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Its like....sometimes I actually want to be able to like something I end up not liking, knowing I am the problem and not the show.
Anonymous2110797
Spoiler alaert: anime is trash
Lenlo
I can understand that. I cant stand Clannad, so everytime I ask for a decent romance and it gets recommended I die alittle inside.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While thats very true that not everyone agreeing does make things more interesting, at the same time theres some sense of feeling left out when not understanding the appeal of something extremely well loved.
Lenlo
Also @Maskey +1. If everyone agreed with each other, it would be boring. I love hearing what other people think on stuff.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, give Ippo a try. It is one of the longest running and best sports anime/manga ever made. I sincerely believe this. That said, Megalo Box isnt bad. I still enjoy it. Ive just seen boxing done better.
Lenlo
It wasnt a bad movie. It just felt like it had a lot going on. Like Gil had a 30 sec clip, I don't really understand what the ribbon monster is but I suspect its the grail, and the new Assassin pulling an Alien, while cool, came out of left field. Like, once I just accepted it and moved on it was a fun movie. It just felt like there was a base of knowledge I needed but didnt have.
Masky
Eh, its okay to not like something that someone else likes. I disagree rather often with blog writers' opinions here but I still enjoy reading their opinions
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