Posted by psgels on 19 March 2009 with categories: Anime Reviews, Michiko e Hatchin



Ah, time to review one of my favourites of the past season. Manglobe always manages to come with some fun, interesting and innovative series, and this one’s no different. While Samurai Champloo had its action, Ergo Proxy had its plot, Michiko e Hatchin stands out in its characters. But like the other two, it really has so much more to like about it.

I often criticise anime for taking place too much in Japan, while there are much more interesting sites in the world to explore. This series does that exactly, giving an incredibly accurate portrayal of Brazil in the 1980s to work with. From the police driving in beetles to the busy cities, everything just screams “Brazil” throughout the entire series. The only other series that I can think of that play out somewhere in south America are more than twenty-five years old by now.

And like mentioned above: the characters are the true highlight of this series. While at first this seems like your average strong character travels together with weak character, it soon becomes clear that the relationship between Michiko and Hatchin is much, much different. Michiko is a sleezebag, she constantly causes trouble and knows nothing about raising children. Hatchin is neat, tidy and ordered, but hates laziness with passion. The personalities between the two constantly clash, and it actually takes a very, very long time for the two of them to get used to each other, but when they do, they really complement their own weaknesses. Especially Hatchin grows into an awesome character, who is constantly fun to watch.

This series can also boast one of the best villains out there in a long, long time. Satoshi doesn’t appear on the screen a lot, but when he does, you instantly know that this guy is incredibly dangerous, and yet at the same time he stands so far away from your standard “Muaha, I’m going to destroy the world because I’m evil!” that you seem to see in nearly every anime nowadays.

What also made this into such a great show is that it’s incredibly varied. It’s a show with many different faces, rather than just one general tone that keeps up for the entire series. One episode may be fun and full of comedy, while the next is an incredibly dark one about the inner clashes of street gangs, while the next may turn into a fun action-game sequence. You’ll never know what the series is going to focus on next, but it’s always going to be fresh and interesting.

Right now, I’m trying to think of a big flaw in this series, but all I can think of is some tiny flaws, like how for some characters the introduction seems to be missing, so you’re often thrown into the blue, or how the ending doesn’t answer all of the questions that you might have gathered through the series, but those are just mere details.

The thing is, that Michiko e Hatchin is an awesome, stylish and mature series and it excels at just about everything that it does. There is a fantastic dynamic between the characters, and never once does it feel childish or anything, despite Hatchin being a 10 year old and all. It’s really got a bit of everything, and it’s my personal favourite series of a studio that had already a record of putting down the most amazing series.

Storytelling: 9/10
Characters: 10/10
Production-Values: 9/10
Setting: 9/10

17 Responses

  1. I-K says:

    This series was really fun to follow. I am a bit bummed it wasn’t a few more episodes, I will miss M&H.

    I loved the setting of this show. Very unique and locales were highlighted in every episode. One detail I also liked that you didn’t mention was that the main characters wear different outfits (nearly) every episode. It really shows how much work was put into the designs.

    I look forward to future Manglobe projects.

  2. tealovertoma says:

    I haven’t finished it yet (on episode 20, the last one subbed right now) but I can already tell I don’t love it as much as I loved Manglobe’s previous projects – Samurai Champloo and Ergo Proxy. I still like it, but found the characters to be a lot less compelling and many of the subplots uninteresting. The leaps in time made it harder to follow and tell exactly what is going on and characters seemed in completely different moods every episode. There’s unresolved cliffhangers and non-recurring characters that seem important introduced all the time. All in all, it just felt a lot less like a whole than SC or EP.

    Putting all of that aside, I think it’s virtually impossible for Manglobe to make a bad anime and it still kicks ass, but I’d rate this 75-80% or so.

  3. Kurisu says:

    1980s? I don’t remember any particular dates though there possibily where some in letters or news reports. I was quite certain Michiko e Hatchin plays around nowadays. The fashion style surely doesn’t say 1980s. The beetles can be misleading. They were produced until 2003 in Mexiko. They are not a rare sight in South America even nowadays. Also most of the music sounded fairly modern. Sure, you see some technical equipment that is outdated in the first world like cassette recorders and nobody seems to have cell phones, only walky-talkies. Though cell phones only became wide spread in Europe and the US around the mid-1990s. Actually, Europe was quicker with adoption than the USA where people sticked to simple pagers for a long time. I doubt that cell phones are useful in Brazil except in the few big cities anyways because it’s a poor country and population is sparse on average. So it probably doesn’t mean much.

    I’m only disappointed that character animation consistency went down the drains during the second half. Also the very obvious use of CGI for streets in the action-ladden episodes looked poorly done. In that regard, I also found the last episode disappointing because I assumed they’d saved some budget to polish final episode. Sure, some scenes look extra-ordinarily fluid and some of the distortion is fitting but I perceive a constant change between good and poor animation as more annoying than some average animation that is at least consistent in itself.

    After all, it was a road movie-like show as I had expected not so unlike El Cazador, except with much more style, action, realism and a good mix of dark, gritty seriousness with comedy. It is more about the growing bond between the two protagonists than the search for Hiroshi, although you could have guessed that from the title. I think it’s also due to realism that you don’t get a fully conclusive ending. In real-life there a many questions for which you’ll never get an answer and sometimes when you reach a goal, you’ll see that it was fairly pointless but the experience itself wasn’t. They found Hiroshi, he’s alive but he’s completely useless and could have just been dead as far as Michiko and Hatchin are concerned. As in real-life, the way is usually much more important than the actual goal and there’s never an end until you’re dead anyways.

  4. kuro says:

    it was more likely a rushed ending… But we had a great journey gonna miss them T.T
    btw grow up hatchin was very cute :))

  5. Loz says:

    If I ever met a real life michiko, I think I would fall in love…

    Absolutely loved this series. Everything about it just oozed with a certain style that just appealed to me in so many ways.

    I must have loved every single episode, although the ending probably doesnt hold the same status as the rest of the episodes in my mind, but it really was the only way they could do it. Slight unleft answer in the terms of Hana’s real mother, but I guess I can look past that.

    On the whole probably not quite a masterpiece, but extremely brilliant.

    Im sure ill be recommending this one for years to come!

  6. TCoFA says:

    I wasn’t too interested in these series at first , but I decided to give it a go. I almost hurled over the first episode, I’ll admit that, but since I down’d 12 of ’em anyway and you were actually very positive about it, I watched another and damn this is good stuff.

  7. Syphin says:

    Ah, this is a great series, loved watching it. So many good things about it. Setting and the music were great. Michiko and Hatchin are awesome. Sad to see it end but amazing :D.

    Thanks for blogging this series, enjoyed reading them =).

  8. c160 says:

    I just hate Hiroshi so much…Number 1 on my hate list…They went through so much to meet him,but yet that bastard..Michiko is waaaay to good for that bastard..

  9. senerikfred says:

    I love it when a series I have a good feeling about actually turns out well.
    Atsuko’s climax was over dramatic, and it didn’t help that 19 was the worst animated episode of the series, but the last three were all fantastic, and really did a good job with exchanging sheer quality for fluidity during the action. I liked that the last was mostly quiet, and didn’t go out of the way to wrap up each and every loose end. Also, I think I prefer it the way that they didn’t say anything about Hatchin’s biological mother. The girl Atsuko met, Satoshi and the tomato woman were as much extra depth as was needed to show the way the various people Hiroshi met were affected by him, and they’d have needed to do an extra two or three episode arc either totally about her or where she was totally in the background in order to not end up detracting from Michiko and Hatchin’s relationship overall. As was demonstrated, the creators don’t seem like they had the budget for that.
    As for Michiko, I think she wasn’t realistically planning too far ahead where the show started, and really did go after Hatchin more as an excuse to see Hiroshi again. As she spent more time with Hatchin, however, she became a little more down to earth and accepted the way things would ultimately turn out, but only directly dealt with the situation in front of her. She even realized Hiroshi’s flaws to a certain extent, but wouldn’t allow herself to believe in them. It’d been foreshadowed for the longest time that Hiroshi wasn’t quite the ideal Michiko had in mind, so Hatchin flying off into the sunset with him and NOT living happily ever after felt like a perfect fit for the show’s themes, too.
    Long comment apologies, but even with its flaws, when Michiko to Hatchin was awesome, it was AWESOME. I can only nurture this small hope I have that the DVDs/Blurays/whatever THORA are subbing will include corrections for the necessary episodes.

  10. Pegah says:

    I really loved how Satoshi was portrayed, especially towards the end, and I actually felt bad when he died :( my favourite part, though, was when he and Hatchin teamed up, they made a really cute team, haha

  11. kiz-chan says:

    It’s a lovely series, but I can guarantee you that it’s not an accurate portrait of brazil (since its where I live ^^). It’s more like a crazy mix of some latin america countries (the exotic parts).

    And answering somebody who commented, we have cell phones here. A lot of them and they’re pretty cheap. 8D Oh, and the equipments that are outdated in the first world will probably be outdated here too. Brazil is a rich country but with huge social inequality. Please, people, don’t take the anime so seriously. ‘^^

  12. starred says:

    I’m so glad I followed this series, it is definetely one my favorite animes EVER. The only thing that really bugged me was the lack of explanation about the tattoos.

    Also, about the cellphone use in Brazil: Gotta agree with kiz-chan, I don’t know anyone around here who doesn’t use it, and even most 10 year olds already have one. In fact, in 2006 Brazil was 6th in a world ranking of cellphone use. \o/ I loved the varied settings of MeH but they were far away from being a realistic portrayal of the brazilian cities nowadays. Anime =/= Reality, folks.

    Anyway, thanks for your reviews, they were part of the fun of watching Michiko e Hatchin for me. =)

  13. Oya says:

    Great anime, thanks for blogging it.
    Michiko is damn cool!!!

  14. Mark K says:

    I must say while I was waiting for this anime I somehow came across this site and took the time to read your review (the only thing I hate more than typing is reading reviews)

    However what an EXCELLENT read this review was, I am so looking forward to watching this (mostly because of this review)

    Thanks

  15. AlexS says:

    Finally I got to see this series. I originally dropped it because I found frustrating to wait for the subs, and preferred to marathon it. Now that I have watched it, I can only say that it’s AWESOME.

    The level of detail, research used to create the music, backgrounds, clothing, character design is just flabbergasting! It oozes of style and really is a homage to the richness of Brazilian culture. You can see that the creators are anything but lazy: every jingle is different, styles change all the time, even character designs. It’s brilliant!

    As for authenticity, I disagree with the comments of the brazilian posters. Of course this is not how Brazil is, because it’s a mix of different eras: beetles, walkie-talkies, cassettes from the 70-80’s, but also disco lasers and genetic engineering: different periods of Brazil are compressed into a single setting, aiming for the soul of the country. This distance taken from exact realism is what allows the series to go to the essentials. You can notice this approach in other aspects: all the town names (or money) are invented, but the general maps are always of Brazil: in this way the authors creativity is not pointlessly constrained by details, and they can directly focus on what interests them.

    The only reservation I have in this topic is the episode with the pre-colombian ruins: really, that has nothing to do with Brazil, but in the end, who cares. The rest of the series is all about Brazil specifically, and not some general “south American” country.

    By the way, it’s also very interesting to see how a different culture (the japanese) views one’s own culture, and I find that in this series there was a real love and respect for the culture portrayed. Although as in any work based on “exotic” settings, there were stereotypes, but these were never soulless, and care was taken to make them really work.

    These people must have read and watched tons of Brazilian books/movies/soaps, because the anime is full of references to those (for instance “Cidade de Deus” comes to mind). I really laughed with the references to the “telenovelas” (the local soaps).

    Storywise, the anime really conveys the notion that life is cheap in third world countries… there is violence, and death happens, but people move on, and are not that sensitive to it. On the other hand the need to be cared for, resentment, betrayals and revenge are the much more gripping emotions that guide the characters. Nobody acts to right a wrong because of an absolute sense of justice (as is common in anime), but simply to get even on some personal offense, or to get back what they want.

    I also liked that the backstory and plot were not spoon fed to the audience. We were treated as grown ups, and I appreciate that. Character’s deaths are dealt with swiftly, no time is lost elaborating the dots we can connect by ourselves. This series had plenty of drama, and even romance, but surprisingly little cheese.

    In regards to comments on the mother of Hatchin, her absence is in itself the most important statement about her. She is so irrelevant, as one of Hiroshi’s many one night stands, that she does not even have an identity. Hard to bring the case more forcefully home.

    As for the end, I found it extremely satisfying. No character went “out of character” for the sake of an ending, they followed their logical trajectories. And I really loved to see the grown up Hatchin/Hana, suffering from the typical ills of her lack of parenting (doing small jobs because she has no education, being a young and single mother, etc), but still striving to do her best, because that’s the energy she has in her, like many people in her situation.

    There was social commentary going on, but without patronizing, which is incredibly refreshing.

    Together with Kaiba, this is my favorite 2008 anime.

  16. touchinstinct says:

    I absolutely loved this series! Michiko was a character that you loved, hated, and thought that she was a selfish bitch. she was selfish, reckless, beautiful, charming, imposing, and dangerous. In the end you fell in love with her because of those qualities. Hatchin, though she was only 10, acted more mature than her counter part. She was everything that Michiko wasn’t. She was adorable. Now the story and setting on the other hand was amazing. It was colorful and explosive. The villains were well scripted. Satoshi Batista was probably one of the BEST anime villains that I have ever seen. Now, Shinsuke Sasse Rodriguez I loved even more. He was a psychotic villain, much like The joker.
    All in all this anime totally ruled.

  17. Sasna says:

    Loved the characters, the culture, the animation and all that, but I think there were WAY too many loose ends when it came to secondary characters. They’d often just appear, bring a critical climax to the series, and then never appear again, their case and their motives unresolved or explained (there are ways to explain things without forcefully showing everything). There were also a lot of little plot holes, elements that did not make sense or weren’t realistic enough to my taste. But other than that it was really entertaining to watch. The ending was really cute and truthful. But I’d still give the anime a 7.5/10 for all the inconsistencies.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
@Anon, that respect seems on different levels for people though. I mean I seen people championed Yuri on Ice as a major win for LGBT representation in anime while I myself just saw it as queer baiting seeing as the series itself couldn't admit it's characters were gay.
Anonymous1829806
Travlos here: I know many of the AoTitan fans hate the new direction of the manga, but I love it. Gimme more war!

While I love the ideas in Birdy the Mighty, the pace of the mangaka is maddening.
Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
Anonymous1829213
*Shimanami
Anonymous1829213
And in regards to the celebrities themselves acting flamboyant or playing into stereotypes, why do you think those are the ones who are famous? They are allowed to be, because they paint a comical picture that is more easily accepted by the public. This is why Hourou Musuko and manga like Shiranami Tasogare/My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness are so amazing by painting people as actual humans
Kaiser-Eoghan
There ARE good shoujo-ai manga of course, girlfriends, aoi hana and yaoi like haru wo deiteita.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@CoolerAnon: I notice that bisexuality isn't much addressed in these things , the coming out thing doesn't often come into it.
Anonymous1829213
@Other Anon: You might add that a lot of those shows also perpetuate some pretty extreme stereotypes and male light of other of serious issues (i.e. the perception others have of LGBT people and that LGBT people have towards themselves, the experience of coming out, etc. etc.)
Kaiser-Eoghan
By lol coincidence he seems to have also voiced a pokemon character too.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*re-incarnation of, not evolved
Kaiser-Eoghan
Totally based, hilarious guy to, once claimed jokingly in an interview he was the evolved form of pikachu.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: There is a view of the transvestite as a "silly joke character" even in live action media there thats connected to homosexuallity but I'd say in most cases the person themselves is into it, Akihiro Miwa, famous Japanese gay actor played up that flamboyant drag act since the 60s.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: That is well known to me. Also its seen as anti-conform and I heard that the teachers don't know what to do when people are bullied over it, some of them think its down to mental illness.
Anonymous1829154
How japanese media portray lgbtq issues is a problem to this day. Sure shoujo, gender bender, and yaoi genres are mainstream, but at the end of the day people are expected to eventually "grow out of it" and find heterosexual partners in the end. Pretty patronizing
SuperMario
Oh shit, I didn't realize I put Wandering Children instead of Wandering Son in the title. Thanks for pointing that out Kaiser
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Shuu, mai precious lil' Babbu *hugs*
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol Okadas best anime work cause she didn't really write it lol
SuperMario
I will read on the manga to see how these kids growing up. Boy do i love this cast
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose thats fair enough.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah, I know I stretched that image a bit but for some reasons I was goddamn hard to find an image for Wandering Son that I liked. Will make a slideshow later today to see if it looks better
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah I call them by their physical gender because at that stage, they haven't come out yet, right? If I remember correctly, Shuu still regards himself as "boku" rather than "watashi"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I guess this amuses me mostly because theres a jokey line later on in the manga where the girl with shu says "Ha, guess this makes me a lesbian"
Kaiser-Eoghan
There has been some theory/suggestion that Doi is attracted to shuu seeing shuu's femininty, seeing shuu as a woman .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Later in the manga Takatsuki stops having these feelings toward masculinity, which is addressing adolescent confusion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry about this really hope I don't come off as trying to start anything/an arguement/coming off as an asshole here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats really interesting about hourou musuko is that in addition to Takako Shimura being a Lesbian , by choosing a mtf character as the protaganist and with shuu's relationship with a biological woman later in the manga, she is dealing with an even more interesting issue of whats called by Lesbians as Trans-lesbianism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Transexual, mtf or ftm are probably the more accurate words to use as transgender also includes transvestite which is a different thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its a very good review though, you don't have to change anything I'm probably being overly anal about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was wandering Children chosen instead of wandering son to avoid suggesting pronouns in the title? But then the text of the review uses shuus physical rather than psychological gender. I'm not preaching or asking for changes or complaining, I just found this somewhat contradictory.
AidanAK47
Oh Tomogui Kyoushitsu? That is a weird death game manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Checks manga cover* Goes in expecting bondage manga *its a cannibalism horror manga instead*
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably just me, but I feel the top two pictures should have a gap between them.
AidanAK47
I would recommend replacing the top image of wandering son. Cause you killed the quality of it by stretching it. Never stretch an image.
Lenlo
Id recommend some kind of slideshow or something Mario. For me, its a big sudden blob of images. But thats just me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't deny a single criticism of the Junji Ito adaptation, and yet despite it all it works for me , I forgive it because the imagination goes such a long way with me, I don't even mind that some of them aren't fully developed either, don't need things to be too tidy or explain everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Eh, Maverick was a fairly rubbish, thrown in villain but I liked Lunatics backstory how it linked in with the twist his father was that big hero guy mentioned at the start who ended up becoming a washed up mess.
SuperMario
And I won't take "No, you don't need these pics at all" for an answer
SuperMario
Guys, should I put the 2 arts back-to-back at the begin of the post like this, or should I use slideshow?
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: 91 Days was not too bad.
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: Thanks for those two historical manga's head-up.
Anonymous1828434
Akumestu soo satisfying to read
Anonymous1828321
Thank you
Lenlo
A shame. Kokkoku had the first truly dull episode this week. Suppose one had to come eventually, but this one was mostly an info dump.
AidanAK47
Like lightning, I strike. Junji Ito is basically interesting ideas with deeply flawed execution. It's not scary, doesn't really capture Ito's style and the animation is bare bones. While the stories themselves can have there interesting points, they are often not fleshed out enough. Honestly I am getting rather bored with it.
Lenlo
Holy bejesus Aidan. Nice triple post. :P

So overall how is Junji Ito? From what ive read so far, it seems pretty hit or miss on the horror/gore front. Failing to live up to the manga. I havnt read it though, so im curious what ya think
AidanAK47
Akumetsu?
Anonymous1828142
Wearing a mask
Anonymous1828142
What was the name of the manga where the main character is some superhuman high school student who goes around fighting Japanese politicians
Lenlo
On a side note, I should really start Violet Evergarden at some point...
Lenlo
"Anime is dying" is just a meme that gets thrown around because of Miyazaki.
Lenlo
Maybe. I dont think average score per year is a good metric though, as the cash ins are increasing, but I doubt the passion projects are decreasing. For instance we had /alot/ of duds this year, but people only really remember/care about the good ones of which there was a fair number. It wasnt a bad year for decent/good anime.
AidanAK47
Well yeah, but they didn't have as many Animation studios back then as we do right now. So it's not so much that we lost artistic merit but rather the number of studios cashing in on popular trends for a quick buck have increased. Even then, I am willing to put money on there being just as much harem anime in yesteryear as we have cute girls shows in present.
Lenlo
Perhaps, but I would argue those were on smaller scales, and even then, thats not so different from Western animation or movies. Just look at Warner Bros and their DC push after the success of Marvel. Every industry has those who chase successful trends, yet they arnt failing
AidanAK47
@lenlo, the thing is though that before Moe crap there was eva copy crap and before eva copy crap you had space opera crap and before space opera crap you had hyperviolet OVA crap. The industry has always tried to cash in on a popular trend.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel people went apeshit over, say highschool of the dead because they never saw a bunch of old B/exploitation films, thus that show was never special to me and even failed at an imitation of such.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think people getting to excited for it being unique to a single medium or for, its setting themselve up for disappointment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I just think its incredibly limited thinking to base it all on just ONE medium, you CAN hold up anime to film when anaylzing anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why should 91 days get a free pass just because its an anime about gangsters? Go watch a film about it instead which theres probably many of, joker game fail you as the mature spy thriller it ended up not being, who cares, Tinker tailor soldier spy exists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I dislike this "Its unique for an anime/manga to do this, so instantly lets latch on to it, despite fact that same something is already extremely prevalent in other mediums "
Kaiser-Eoghan
Case in point 91 days and Joker game "It has adults, lets pre-rejoice before the show even came out"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel though because of the level of dissatisfaction with said moe shows that people are going to leap far too quickly on anything just slightly different, getting their hopes up too high and end up feeling let down.
Lenlo
That, or it all comes crashing down around our ears. With stuff like Houseki no Kuni and Made in Abyss from last year however, I think its going to be ok. We are just getting inundated with crap right now.
Lenlo
I do think that some of the artistic part of it has been lost, its gotten diluted in the never ending river of Moe crap. But that doesnt mean its gone. Just harder to find. Eventually all the random moe shows no one cares about will fail and stop getting made. But the anime audience will still be around, to enjoy the better stuff thats left.
Lenlo
Same thing happened in the mid/late 90's and early 00's to American cartoons.
Lenlo
Eh, I dont think anime is dying. Changing no doubt. Its going through a rough growth stage right now. It has a bigger audience than ever and people are trying to cash in on that with lots of shows that are basically the same
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Tank you and damn you for posting screencap of loli-tachibana, I now have cuteness overload a diabeetus =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I realize thats a very minor detail to focus on though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I can really really get into a history manga if the art is top quality, the costume designs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the historical thing, I have a massive I repeat massive thing for full body medieval armoured characters hacking the shit into things or just the armour in general , especially templar armour designs. I also have an little obsession with male aristocratic army uniforms from the Prussian era and world war 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That recent Urasawa manga Travlos mentioned is ending also
@Mario: We might get a complete adaptation of after the rain, the manga is ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More historical manga I found, haven't read the second one however, I didn't hear those two mentioned on here either before.
Kaiser-Eoghan
[link src="http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hawkwood
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Ad-Astra-Scipio-to-Hannibal"]
AidanAK47
@Anon, yes clearly you know better than everyone else on the planet despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up you claims. Thank you nameless Stranger, we owe you a debt for telling us the same thing we hear every year. Let me congratulate you by kicking you out the door.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can generally come up with an opinion for what I follow/watch/read , but I don't really have one on kokkuu.
KTravlos
Well we watched the first episode of Kokkuku. Interesting. The ED theme is quite the fanservice.
SuperMario
@Ktravlos: If your like to check out some other shows this season then I'd definitely recommend After the Rain.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: at least Kino is thought-provoking. I can't say the same for Violet Evergarden. In fact I remain skeptical with VE
KTravlos
I am quite enjoying both Violet Evergarden and Mahoutsukai. Violet gives me similar vibes to the first Kio series, though obviously Kino was a better series.
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
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