Posted by psgels on 28 July 2009 with categories: Shangri-La



Another great episode, if only because of Karin’s awesomeness. I already suspected that we didn’t see the last of her when she got busted out of her room by Atlas, but for her to end up buying the entire Akihabara! That’s a nice one. To think that it’s actually Karin who unites all of the good guys, rather than Kuniko, but it’s definitely an interesting twist for Karin to try and collect all of the Digmas (or Triple As, as she calls them). We still don’t know though what makes them so important, and why Ryouko bothered to let them go in the first place. Now that Claris seems to be gone, an interesting split personality on her side also seems to surface.

In other news, Takehito seems to have discovered that Kuniko is a Triple A Atlas member. What we do learn in this episode is that one of the Triple As is meant to inherit Atlas in the future… wtf?! But in any case, Takehito’s grief for his dead sister seems to be a bit too big for him to accept that Kuniko is part of Atlas (he’s probably not going to like it when he finds out about her grandmother either). We see him jump off a cliff in this episode, but in true Shangri-La fashion, I really doubt that that was the last we see of him. :)

But the juiciest plot twist in this episode: Kuniko plans to burn down the ENTIRE TOKYO in order to stop the Daedalus from spreading. This plot just keeps getting better and better, doesn’t it? My big hope is that Gonzo has saved its budget for that particular scene, because if it’s going to mean that the the entire city of Tokyo, including Atlas, is going to end up in flames, then that’s going to make for some potentially awesome eye candy.

What also striked me in this episode is that there are a lot of people who have an aversion of something major: Karin hates public places, Mikuni can’t go out in broad daylight, while Medusa can’t seem to survive without water. I keep trying to look for a link with something else in the story, but it seems pretty random. If you take liberties in this definition then you could argue that Sayoko can’t live without a “daughter”-figure to take care of, and Momoko and Miiko turned away their manlihoods, but there still doesn’t seem to be a pattern I can spot here. Especially since Kuniko and Kunihito don’t seem to fit in this theme at all…
Rating: ** (Excellent)

19 Responses

  1. chounokoe says:

    I’m glad there’s still somebody out there who likes the series enough to blog it.
    Even though Shangri La is a bit jumpy in terms of storytelling at times – I admit I never saw characters switching between places that fast, no wonder many people can’t keep track of what happens when and where – but at least it is entertaining and is kinda fresh in it’s topic while still being kinda nostalgic (I always start thinking of Anime like Ima soko ni iru boku when I watch it.

    Oh yeah, regarding the inheriting of Atlas, I think it was already hinted earlier, so I don’t know if it was that surprising.
    Maybe I just overanalyzed, but I always interpreted Hiruko’s visions of the Sun/Moon rising to illuminate the sky and the Earth ruling over the land as a prophecy of what the three TripleA are supposed to do in the future.

  2. PL says:

    I liked this episode except how mikuni seems to have reverted to her pre-Mi-Ko level of spoiled brattiness…Karin certainly deserved it, but it just feels like the development she’d gained from having Mi-ko as a mother figure is completely undone.

  3. Panther says:

    “Especially since Kuniko and Kunihito don’t seem to fit in this theme at all…”

    The answer was in the statement – they cannot live without each other. Oh the “love” scenes so far. y u do dis, gonzo

    I also smell the Gonzo ending already. No idea why, but this plot stank of it from the start. Not that it has not been entertaining and still a good watch, but the end looks to be pretty much Gonzo’ed.

    Also, you meant “struck”, not “striked”.

  4. senerikfred says:

    Panther, fucking LOL, you spoke my thoughts down to the grammar correction. That first part is exactly what I thought after reading this post-I haven’t been keeping up with Shangri-la, but the biggest thing I drew from the first ep was ‘obvious love interest is obvious’ at Kunihito’s first appearance. I’ve less incentive than ever to watch this at the possibility of such a corny ship, but even my hatred for shows that expect you to take them seriously while blatantly disregarding realism may drop its guard if I have psgels’ word that it’s fully entertaining to the end.

  5. psgels psgels says:

    We’ll see though, there hasn’t been any actual romance between the two yet at this point, so it can really get anywhere.

    As for the ending… let’s just say that the guy behind the series composition has me confident that it’s not going to screw up. It’s most likely going to be rushed in some way, but there still is a lot of potential for a Good Gonzo ending.

  6. Lala says:

    I think the thing that Kuniko can’t live without would be Momoko-san. She was really upset that time when Momoko was captured, not at all like what the others were like. I can’t find what Kunihito can’t live without though… His mom’s chicken soup?? >_

  7. lim175 says:

    actually, i’m not getting too much of a bad gonzo shipping vibe here. I mean, i can see the shipping. but i don’t see this prospective “relationship” developing fast enough to reach to that :( point :) It seems more focused on the politics and plot than chara. shippings…

  8. dm00 says:

    I’d been cooling on the series through the recent episodes — only the very best directors can do “epic” with any facility (Kurosawa, Lean, even Peter Jackson fumbled when it came to Return of the King), and the “epic”, world-changing scenes of the past few episodes have struck me as silly.

    This episode, on the other hand, concentrated on the small: the conversation between Takehiko and Kuniko, Momoko’s careful tactfulness (Momoko! tactfulness! in the same sentence!) about Takehiko’s fate, and all those wonderful, wonderful scenes with Karin muttering to herself. Everything: the writing, the directing, the acting, came together this episode.

    Karin has really struck me as a surprising linch-pin of this series.

    As to Gonzo endings? I bet we never learn who Karin’s parents are, or what the real nature of her relationship with them is. I wouldn’t be too surprised if we never find out the story behind Momoko’s earring, either.

  9. Jabba says:

    I thought that Ryouko said that the Daedalus was created to prevent forest fires…
    So would setting them on fire REALLY work?

  10. Shounen A says:

    I’m Takehiko knew Kuniko had rank AAA from the beginning, and that it was learning what happened to his sister that broke him.

    As for a pattern, here are my weak suggestions: being a mother figure for Momoko and Miko (compare Miko pre-Mikuni and after), and something to believe in for Kunihito and Kuniko.

  11. chounokoe says:

    I thought that Ryouko said that the Daedalus was created to prevent forest fires…
    So would setting them on fire REALLY work?

    No, I think it won’t work, but as far as I know only Ryouko knows about that so far. So maybe exactly this plan of Kuniko is the point where the finale/catastrophe will set in.

    And about the earing…well I hope at least that it will be featured, at least in a sense that maybe she really got it on the market but knows from who (eg Mikunis mother).
    And so far it CAN’T be revealed I think, because it still is a mystery what exactly the TripleA are.

  12. Elvenwarrior says:

    “This episode, on the other hand, concentrated on the small: the conversation between Takehiko and Kuniko, Momoko’s careful tactfulness (Momoko! tactfulness! in the same sentence!) about Takehiko’s fate, and all those wonderful, wonderful scenes with Karin muttering to herself. Everything: the writing, the directing, the acting, came together this episode.”

    Agreed.

    As for the mystery of the earring, I do still think they will address it before the end.

    Even more so as far as Karin’s parents go. At the moment, I think I’d actually be rather surprised if we DON’T find out about them, as I still think, like others, that it will be part of what links her background even further to the others.

  13. Rob Hiengler says:

    Nope still no explanation on how Lord Hiroko, the child sacrifices and spiritual energy prevent the Atlas building from oscillating. Who was the IDIOT architect for the building anyway who forgot to put TUNED-MASS DAMPENERS.

    http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Tuned_mass_damper

    I mean honestly a plot component SOOOOO contrived it irritates me.

    Seriously if I was Takehiko I would have pulled the trigger.

    Next how exactly did Karin buy the whole of Akihabara? Considering Ishibara Finance went insolvent. Certainly not from the information she got from Zeus. In addition not everyone will want to have sold their land to her. How pathetically simplified is this farce?

    Mikuni just figured out she can go out at night no-need to wait for a solar eclipse. Yup there you go sprinkle in the occult as well – magical barriers – sheesh. The fact that she’s a complete murdering psychopath doesn’t really endear her either.

    Back to Daedelus. What surprises me is if it has spread this far, why did no-one notice it before? Is it Nitrogen dioxide or Nitrogen monoxide? Or let’s leave it so obscure that no-one will question it right – could be anything. Either of which anyway aren’t propellants. Let’s not even consider how or why a plant would produce these gases, or what selective pressures would direct this “evolution”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide

    In addition how exactly does shooting seed put out a fire? Come on boys *wink* *wink*

    Lastly fire-bombing Tokyo to get rid of Daedelus. How do we know that fire:

    -gets rid of it
    -as mentioned before by Jabba would fire even work if they were designed to put out fire in the first place.

    Rating negative * – crapfest!

  14. chounokoe says:

    While the anime of Shangri La is no masterpiece, especially compared to the original novel (many points that were important were dropped to make it fit into 26 episodes), you could at least watch it until the end if you’re already watching it in one go…
    Especially the function of Atlas is something that is only explained at the very end…even though the anime simplified the symbolic meaning of many parts of the Atlas plan.

    Also expecting basic symbolic characters like Hiruko to be explained in all details just shows that this story heavily relies on at least basic knowledge of Japanese mythology…if you don’t understand, look it up.

    Just to save you from the pain of watching further…because you seem to be expecting a sci-fi story with it’s focus on the SCIENCE aspect. It is NOT.
    So if you’re watching Sci-Fi with a fully classical western standpoint and abhore the idea of mythology/mysticism and science being used equally…just stop.

    Or is this some kind of trollish rant on the series?!

  15. Rob Hiengler says:

    @chounokoe

    Trollish rant hardly. I’m giving a definitive breakdown of why Shangri-La deserves to be slated as an anime series – Sorry are only good reviews or comments allowed?

    In what way exactly is the series tied to Japanese mythology? What because the Digmas have a sun, moon, etc. coinciding with Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo all stemming from Izanagi? They bare a pale resemblance at best and are linked merely by name, to say it is linked to Japanese mythology is a fallacious strawman argument in its entirety proven by the FACT you are unable and unwilling to explain this.

    That’s the entire problem with the series right there. I mean why even use references to Greek mythology which aren’t even linked in anyway or correctly referenced. IF YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND LOOK IT UP!

    I certainly don’t abhore the use of science/mysticism/mythology, but when you do it INCORRECTLY like I’ve proven time and time again and mish-mash a story line that is so unoriginal and unable to have any direction then its fair to criticize that.

  16. chounokoe says:

    If you would bother to actually watch the series as a whole and not review each episode individually, even though you seem to be watching at least 4-5 per day, maybe some things would come to you.

    No criticism is actually pretty much welcome, but there is reasonable criticsm and such that seems to be done only for the sake of criticizing.
    Yes, I already agreed that the Shangri La anime actually has some really big flaws in how it tried to make the story of Ikegami Eiichi’s novel fit into this frame. Some things were so heavily simplified, that of course someone with scientific knowledge could see that they are rather constructed and far from reality…most of those were done in order to make the plot move faster.

    The factor of Japanese mythology is actually rather big, even though it is toned down compared to the original.
    But I would rather refrain from posting them here (at episode 17) and rather wait to the point when you actually finished the series.

    Even the greek mythology is actually there for a reason and is a rather big foreshadowing of what Atlas is actually planned out to be.

  17. Robhiengler says:

    chounokoe read my other comments forward of this episode: if you want to comment at episode 24 then be my guest. My point is there is simplification, then there’s taking mythology and essentially ripping it apart and re-writing to suit the author’s convoluted nonsensical plotline with the barest of similarity. It isn’t clever or astute and quite honestly does an utter disservice culturally both from a western and japanese perspective. The incorrect pop-science and pop-economics just helps to misinform people. There’s a huge difference between creating made-up compounds and materials and assigning them specific qualities and taking known materials explaining it in detail utterly incorrectly to make the series sound intelligent and suit the plot. If any show was guilty for crimes against knowledge: Shangri-La takes the top spot.

    In addition are you telling me the anime adaptation is completely different to the Light novels in terms of economics, science and mythology, is the “Carbon economy” utterly different? I think its quite apparent that Ikegami Eiichi Light Novels are based on an entirely flawed premise as well, the anime merely reflects this.

  18. chounokoe says:

    Just to have that out of the picture, Shangri La is NOT a light-novel. It’s a 500 page long novel (with two rows…so basically it’s even longer, I would assume around 700 if it were printed otherwise).

    The point is that some of the structures were changed altogether in the anime. In the novel some characters do not meet at all, almost everybody except Miiko is changed entirely…the hardest changes went into Ryôko, Tarshan and Nagiko.

    The story of Shangri La is less about creating a scientifically correct dystopic future, as it is more about an outlook on humanity in general.
    The Carbon trade did play a big part in the novel, but not as much as in the anime, as the shift into a mythologically based finale is much stronger.

    I will gladly answer the questions you have and discuss this further when you’re finished with the series…as other people could read this and be badly spoiled.

  19. Robhiengler says:

    Outlook on humanity? Please we got to see very little of anything of humanity or the world in this series.

    Feel free chounokoe to comment on episode 24 – I would really like to hear:

    – mythology relationship (accuracy).
    – Explanation for ATLAS and its conception.

    Actually Shangri-La IS A collection of Light Novels
    as

    1) It was serialsied
    2) It’s aimed at a younger demographic
    3) Loads of nice pictures in it right?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_novel
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangri-La_%28novel%29

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
Anonymous1829213
*Shimanami
Anonymous1829213
And in regards to the celebrities themselves acting flamboyant or playing into stereotypes, why do you think those are the ones who are famous? They are allowed to be, because they paint a comical picture that is more easily accepted by the public. This is why Hourou Musuko and manga like Shiranami Tasogare/My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness are so amazing by painting people as actual humans
Kaiser-Eoghan
There ARE good shoujo-ai manga of course, girlfriends, aoi hana and yaoi like haru wo deiteita.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@CoolerAnon: I notice that bisexuality isn't much addressed in these things , the coming out thing doesn't often come into it.
Anonymous1829213
@Other Anon: You might add that a lot of those shows also perpetuate some pretty extreme stereotypes and male light of other of serious issues (i.e. the perception others have of LGBT people and that LGBT people have towards themselves, the experience of coming out, etc. etc.)
Kaiser-Eoghan
By lol coincidence he seems to have also voiced a pokemon character too.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*re-incarnation of, not evolved
Kaiser-Eoghan
Totally based, hilarious guy to, once claimed jokingly in an interview he was the evolved form of pikachu.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: There is a view of the transvestite as a "silly joke character" even in live action media there thats connected to homosexuallity but I'd say in most cases the person themselves is into it, Akihiro Miwa, famous Japanese gay actor played up that flamboyant drag act since the 60s.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: That is well known to me. Also its seen as anti-conform and I heard that the teachers don't know what to do when people are bullied over it, some of them think its down to mental illness.
Anonymous1829154
How japanese media portray lgbtq issues is a problem to this day. Sure shoujo, gender bender, and yaoi genres are mainstream, but at the end of the day people are expected to eventually "grow out of it" and find heterosexual partners in the end. Pretty patronizing
SuperMario
Oh shit, I didn't realize I put Wandering Children instead of Wandering Son in the title. Thanks for pointing that out Kaiser
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Shuu, mai precious lil' Babbu *hugs*
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol Okadas best anime work cause she didn't really write it lol
SuperMario
I will read on the manga to see how these kids growing up. Boy do i love this cast
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose thats fair enough.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah, I know I stretched that image a bit but for some reasons I was goddamn hard to find an image for Wandering Son that I liked. Will make a slideshow later today to see if it looks better
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah I call them by their physical gender because at that stage, they haven't come out yet, right? If I remember correctly, Shuu still regards himself as "boku" rather than "watashi"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I guess this amuses me mostly because theres a jokey line later on in the manga where the girl with shu says "Ha, guess this makes me a lesbian"
Kaiser-Eoghan
There has been some theory/suggestion that Doi is attracted to shuu seeing shuu's femininty, seeing shuu as a woman .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Later in the manga Takatsuki stops having these feelings toward masculinity, which is addressing adolescent confusion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry about this really hope I don't come off as trying to start anything/an arguement/coming off as an asshole here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats really interesting about hourou musuko is that in addition to Takako Shimura being a Lesbian , by choosing a mtf character as the protaganist and with shuu's relationship with a biological woman later in the manga, she is dealing with an even more interesting issue of whats called by Lesbians as Trans-lesbianism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Transexual, mtf or ftm are probably the more accurate words to use as transgender also includes transvestite which is a different thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its a very good review though, you don't have to change anything I'm probably being overly anal about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was wandering Children chosen instead of wandering son to avoid suggesting pronouns in the title? But then the text of the review uses shuus physical rather than psychological gender. I'm not preaching or asking for changes or complaining, I just found this somewhat contradictory.
AidanAK47
Oh Tomogui Kyoushitsu? That is a weird death game manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Checks manga cover* Goes in expecting bondage manga *its a cannibalism horror manga instead*
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably just me, but I feel the top two pictures should have a gap between them.
AidanAK47
I would recommend replacing the top image of wandering son. Cause you killed the quality of it by stretching it. Never stretch an image.
Lenlo
Id recommend some kind of slideshow or something Mario. For me, its a big sudden blob of images. But thats just me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't deny a single criticism of the Junji Ito adaptation, and yet despite it all it works for me , I forgive it because the imagination goes such a long way with me, I don't even mind that some of them aren't fully developed either, don't need things to be too tidy or explain everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Eh, Maverick was a fairly rubbish, thrown in villain but I liked Lunatics backstory how it linked in with the twist his father was that big hero guy mentioned at the start who ended up becoming a washed up mess.
SuperMario
And I won't take "No, you don't need these pics at all" for an answer
SuperMario
Guys, should I put the 2 arts back-to-back at the begin of the post like this, or should I use slideshow?
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: 91 Days was not too bad.
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: Thanks for those two historical manga's head-up.
Anonymous1828434
Akumestu soo satisfying to read
Anonymous1828321
Thank you
Lenlo
A shame. Kokkoku had the first truly dull episode this week. Suppose one had to come eventually, but this one was mostly an info dump.
AidanAK47
Like lightning, I strike. Junji Ito is basically interesting ideas with deeply flawed execution. It's not scary, doesn't really capture Ito's style and the animation is bare bones. While the stories themselves can have there interesting points, they are often not fleshed out enough. Honestly I am getting rather bored with it.
Lenlo
Holy bejesus Aidan. Nice triple post. :P

So overall how is Junji Ito? From what ive read so far, it seems pretty hit or miss on the horror/gore front. Failing to live up to the manga. I havnt read it though, so im curious what ya think
AidanAK47
Akumetsu?
Anonymous1828142
Wearing a mask
Anonymous1828142
What was the name of the manga where the main character is some superhuman high school student who goes around fighting Japanese politicians
Lenlo
On a side note, I should really start Violet Evergarden at some point...
Lenlo
"Anime is dying" is just a meme that gets thrown around because of Miyazaki.
Lenlo
Maybe. I dont think average score per year is a good metric though, as the cash ins are increasing, but I doubt the passion projects are decreasing. For instance we had /alot/ of duds this year, but people only really remember/care about the good ones of which there was a fair number. It wasnt a bad year for decent/good anime.
AidanAK47
Well yeah, but they didn't have as many Animation studios back then as we do right now. So it's not so much that we lost artistic merit but rather the number of studios cashing in on popular trends for a quick buck have increased. Even then, I am willing to put money on there being just as much harem anime in yesteryear as we have cute girls shows in present.
Lenlo
Perhaps, but I would argue those were on smaller scales, and even then, thats not so different from Western animation or movies. Just look at Warner Bros and their DC push after the success of Marvel. Every industry has those who chase successful trends, yet they arnt failing
AidanAK47
@lenlo, the thing is though that before Moe crap there was eva copy crap and before eva copy crap you had space opera crap and before space opera crap you had hyperviolet OVA crap. The industry has always tried to cash in on a popular trend.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel people went apeshit over, say highschool of the dead because they never saw a bunch of old B/exploitation films, thus that show was never special to me and even failed at an imitation of such.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think people getting to excited for it being unique to a single medium or for, its setting themselve up for disappointment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I just think its incredibly limited thinking to base it all on just ONE medium, you CAN hold up anime to film when anaylzing anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why should 91 days get a free pass just because its an anime about gangsters? Go watch a film about it instead which theres probably many of, joker game fail you as the mature spy thriller it ended up not being, who cares, Tinker tailor soldier spy exists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I dislike this "Its unique for an anime/manga to do this, so instantly lets latch on to it, despite fact that same something is already extremely prevalent in other mediums "
Kaiser-Eoghan
Case in point 91 days and Joker game "It has adults, lets pre-rejoice before the show even came out"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel though because of the level of dissatisfaction with said moe shows that people are going to leap far too quickly on anything just slightly different, getting their hopes up too high and end up feeling let down.
Lenlo
That, or it all comes crashing down around our ears. With stuff like Houseki no Kuni and Made in Abyss from last year however, I think its going to be ok. We are just getting inundated with crap right now.
Lenlo
I do think that some of the artistic part of it has been lost, its gotten diluted in the never ending river of Moe crap. But that doesnt mean its gone. Just harder to find. Eventually all the random moe shows no one cares about will fail and stop getting made. But the anime audience will still be around, to enjoy the better stuff thats left.
Lenlo
Same thing happened in the mid/late 90's and early 00's to American cartoons.
Lenlo
Eh, I dont think anime is dying. Changing no doubt. Its going through a rough growth stage right now. It has a bigger audience than ever and people are trying to cash in on that with lots of shows that are basically the same
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Tank you and damn you for posting screencap of loli-tachibana, I now have cuteness overload a diabeetus =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I realize thats a very minor detail to focus on though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I can really really get into a history manga if the art is top quality, the costume designs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the historical thing, I have a massive I repeat massive thing for full body medieval armoured characters hacking the shit into things or just the armour in general , especially templar armour designs. I also have an little obsession with male aristocratic army uniforms from the Prussian era and world war 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That recent Urasawa manga Travlos mentioned is ending also
@Mario: We might get a complete adaptation of after the rain, the manga is ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More historical manga I found, haven't read the second one however, I didn't hear those two mentioned on here either before.
Kaiser-Eoghan
[link src="http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hawkwood
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Ad-Astra-Scipio-to-Hannibal"]
AidanAK47
@Anon, yes clearly you know better than everyone else on the planet despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up you claims. Thank you nameless Stranger, we owe you a debt for telling us the same thing we hear every year. Let me congratulate you by kicking you out the door.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can generally come up with an opinion for what I follow/watch/read , but I don't really have one on kokkuu.
KTravlos
Well we watched the first episode of Kokkuku. Interesting. The ED theme is quite the fanservice.
SuperMario
@Ktravlos: If your like to check out some other shows this season then I'd definitely recommend After the Rain.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: at least Kino is thought-provoking. I can't say the same for Violet Evergarden. In fact I remain skeptical with VE
KTravlos
I am quite enjoying both Violet Evergarden and Mahoutsukai. Violet gives me similar vibes to the first Kio series, though obviously Kino was a better series.
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the bad taste thing, I could easily say Mahouka or sword art are terrible, but back when I watched and loved code geass people where probably bashing it as overhyped shit in the same way people like to do with sword art/mahouka now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I sure years ago I would have been all over violet evergarden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
For example most anime/manga melodrama has lost its effect on me, I hate Clannad and Kanon now and I won't watch the new code geass season because I want to crop it and death note both up to a teenage error and mistake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And in some cases it only takes five or so years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If not that, it’s the show no one gave a shit about that you loved or it’s a recent gem.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And it hit me, the stuff you often end up loving, becoming a measure of your true taste, in my case at least are the re-discoveries, the show you HATED or didn’t get the first time round, maybe you watched it again soon after or years later, but then it does something for you that tops anything you watched in your early days.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Then I remember theres a huge amount of big shounens I never cared for and popular writers that I never liked or if I did found somewhat overated.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Given that I’m in my thirties and have been watching anime, reading manga since I was 11, that’s led to a very very large re-watch list, something things I will NEVER get the time to go back to re-assess , for all I know they could actually be terrible series. Then there’s when I DO go back on shows and let’s face it most DON’T hold up (of course its good when they do hold up).
Kaiser-Eoghan
This has been on my back/mind for a bit now, to where I’m actually somewhat confused by this “tastes” thing in relation to myself.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Out of nowhere comment don't you think? Besides it ain't that I have perfect taste. It's just that my taste is the only one that matters.
Anonymous1819624
@Aidan you don't need to keep pretending you have perfect taste in anime. we are all aware your taste is often questionable, as all of ours are at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its kind of a pity because there were moments where I saw potential in it and thought maybe this would be some kind of exception.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But to more calmly review this, I do think its possible to present topics like this, though in a more accessible way, I think even someone more versed in this would be bothered by this presentation, in addition to this manga never flowing properly, the dialogue just feels it was ripped directly from an article or book.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I suppose in all fairness, its right to say I never studied any of these subjects in much detail that it brings up and never did anything sciencey for more than two years at school so I was probably doomed from the start.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know the expected response to what I said there is "why do you read/continue to read things you know you won't like" but if I don't come out of my comfort zone theres no chance of me being surprised.
AidanAK47
Hehe..well Kaiser, I don't remember saying it was good. I just said it was an insane ride. I found its concept interesting but the presentation was just terrible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for ranting but this makes my blood absolutely seethe and boil.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I got to the last two chapters and just stopped caring, the info dumping, the multiple lives thing, especially the my own father/mother thing and magical girl part....fuck...
Kaiser-Eoghan
And yes I'm talking about Qualia....this...was....abject...punishing headwrecking agony to read.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Okay fuck it, just fuck it, I refuse, absolutely refuse to touch anything involving many worlds interpretation, time travel, shared memory,multiple runthroughs/loops ever again under any any circumstances, this is the worst form of storytelling I can possibly sit through from my perspective , I cannot finish this its impossible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've given away/sold/thrown out anime/manga before, including figures and posters while keeping others , can't remember off hand, but it was to free space.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Together we make....tiger and dragon....Toradora =O
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To be clearer, any interesting series/films they threw out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Anything else interesting they threw out?
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