Posted by psgels on 25 August 2009 with categories: Shoutbox Topics

One of the downsides of this site is that sometimes discussions erupt in the shoutbox that go way beyond its capacity. At the moment, I really don’t have a clear-cut solution for this. The cbox utility really is the best free type of shoutbox that I could find. I’m open for suggestions, though.

Anyway, the least thing I can do is create a proper post for it. I personally haven’t seen the Nana so I can’t exactly comment on it, but there have been plenty of readers with some interesting thoughts on the subject. Opio for example claims:

“Mhmm yea, I’d have to say NANA is the most realistic/engaging shoujo I’ve ever watched. I’ve watched the season like 3 times and following the manga currently. I just really felt the realtionships were so realistic and the way the characters acted were amazin”

On the contrary, Theowne wasn’t impressed:

“Didn’t get too far with NANA, just seemed like superficial characters having superficial relationships. I’ll pass.”

“Meh, it’s a matter of your attitude or personality. Me, I just didn’t care about any of the NANA characters. Complete opposite of Honey and Clover.”

Sappire adds:

“One of the Nanas is indeed superficial, but so are many people in real life. I think NANA does a realistic portrait of people’s feelings and fears, it’s definitely worth a watch.”

senerikfred also liked the realism in Nana:

“I’m with Opio-NNANA’s characters are engagingly realistic. Hachi ended up as one of my favorite characters all-time. She’s shallow for sure, but not an idiot or malicious.”

“Gack. I don’t usually watch stuff as predictable as NANA, but what I like about it is that there aren’t dramatic twists left and right, and it’s so meticuous in fleshing out the characters that more often than not, you know exactly what’s going to happen. It’s made clear exactly what everyone’s reasons are. And damn, DERP isn’t everything there is to like.”

But Theowne notes:

“I’m sure its realistic.=) It’s similar to why I don’t read “realistic” celebrity gossip. I just don’t care about these superficial soap-operas of such characters, and so it felt emotionally hollow. And remember, this is all just my own honest reaction, different people will interpret it their own way. I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong. =)”

I know I missed a number of posts, but this seems to be the gist of it. Now, go ahead with your discussion without those nasty limitations of that shoutbox. ;)

27 Responses

  1. AlexS says:

    Looks to me like there is a consensus about Nana being more realistic than the average shoujo.

    The discussion seems more to be whether the characters themselves are engaging or not, but that’s a very different question.

  2. Julian says:

    Nana And BECK are simply just superior to NaNa -_-, NaNa is just overly dark…which doesn’t suit many ppl.

  3. senerikfred says:

    . . .I should’ve mentioned that I wasn’t implying you should do this, but hey, this works too.

    First off, that NANA is realistic is something most of us already agreed on. Theowne is the only one to dispute liking it in the first place, and he stated that it was a matter of personal taste.
    Can’t exactly deny NANA’s similarity to celebrity gossip, because the story is EXACTLY the kind of ‘scandalous’ thing that would go down as a celebrity legend IRL, at least partly because it does center around two bands, one of whom is already extremely popular where the series starts.
    But I don’t think that it’s superficial. Even Hachi herself, I don’t find superficial, at least once she’s developed. As opposed to the typical shoujo heroine who starts a twit, gets thrown into an unbelievable situation, stays a twit, and lives happily ever after for her trouble, Hachi lives a normal life, pursues whims of romanticism, never learns to be self-sufficient, develops self-destructive habits, and by the time her stresses force her to be more self-conscious, she’s tangled up in issues that she’s much too weak a person to handle. Her feelings are genuine, and she understands that she’s headed in the wrong direction. As much as she hates herself, she’s very aware that she’s ill-equipped to fix anything, and is left constantly regretful. She’s a hell of an interesting character. Usually, such dependent girls are simply depicted as being the useless bitch on the side who ruins things for everyone for no reason. Every character is treated similarly-they try to do what they think is a good idea to do, but what they choose and what they believe to be ‘good’ in the first place varies widely, each with their own flaws. Even characters who get less than ten minutes of screentime are shown to have their own reasons. Like Julian said, the darkness of the whole thing just isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.

  4. kagura says:

    Every time I see a comment saying that characters in Nana are superficial, I start to wonder if we’ve really seen the same anime. For me, it’d be hard to find another series that had me so engaged in its characters and their problems as Nana did.

    As for the main character of the story, I just can’t see Hachi as superficial. Sure, I agree she is a flawed character, somewhat naive, or even shallow at times, but that’s what makes her real to me. I couldn’t help but cheer her on throughout the whole series, want the best for her, cry at her failures… even though I knew she herself was the reason of all her problems, since most of the choices she made were totally wrong and she was just the type to bring disasters on herself… but to say she was superficial? Hell no. I’m sure it would be impossible for me to get so worked up over some superficial characters.

    Nana is definetely one of the best and most engaging anime series I’ve ever seen, even though emotionally it left me feeling as if run over by a truck or something (I’ve cried a lot of tears while watching it, which was strange even for me). And oh, while Paradise Kiss was a total disaster for me, Nana, on the contrary, is the best example of how Yazawa Ai’s manga should be adapted into anime.

    And somehow I don’t really see much sense in comparing Nana to Honey & Clover. While both those series deal with young people trying to find their place in the world, they’re just too different from each other, and not comparable, at least in my book. H&C had similarily strong impact on me, but the feelings it left me with were totally different.

    Sorry, if the comment was more emotional on my part than constructive, but Nana left too big of an impression on me to be able to just talk about it calmly.

    And it was a great idea to actually make a topic of this on the blog. I couldn’t have expressed all that I wanted to in the shoutbox :)

  5. c160 says:

    First of all,Nana,for me,is as realistic as far as manga and anime goes.But of course people may answer differently to it,though for me,the two Nanas hits especially close to home cause I know people who thinks almost on the same line as them.From Hachi/Nana Komatsu’s fickle,shallow self,whom never seem to learn from her mistakes and Nana Osaki trust problems.

    I went into the series because it promises not the usual shoujo formula of girl meets boy,they fall in love,show their hardships as they try to reach their happy end which usually comes in the form of marriage.I’m bored,tired and a bit sick with that formula already.Its just not realistic,that happy-ever-after-marriage ending.Life is not all about trying to reach that happy end which comes in the form of marriage which most shoujo stories ends up showing you know.Instead,NANA is about a story of two girls,and the challenges they face and how they become each other’s most important person.And it’s shown in a very realistic way too.The problems they face,loneliness,trust problems,famliy problems,money problems,and all sort of other real problems that real people face.Not just the usual “do you love her or do you love me” question.

    Of course,for complete character development,we’ll need to see a 2nd season..And it’s better be animated in all Mouryo no Hako quality or higher too :)

  6. Theowne says:

    Well, look, I’ll declare easily that my opinion is a very personal one. I won’t make objective statements on the quality of the writing or development, just give an opinion from one kind of anime fan.

    You guys keep misunderstanding my use of “superficial”. I’m not saying the anime itself is thin in its portrayals or that it isn’t well done, I’m saying that I find the characters themselves, as people, to be superficial people and thus I didn’t care about them or their relationships. I’m not saying it isn’t realistic, I know that there’s plenty of people like this in reality, and this anime is an honest portrayal of them. But at the same time, I think there are a lot of people like me who like earnest love stories that seem meaningful. The romance in NANA just doesn’t seem that way to me with its soap-opera-ish patterns. I stand by my comparison with celebrity gossip.

    I compare it to Honey and Clover because IMO that show has a similar kind of genre to NANA (young adults finding themselves), but the characters in that one are the kind of people I can actually grow to care about – intelligent, mature, thoughtful. And so their relationships feel so much more significant to me, I became more invested than I ever did with the soap opera of Hachi’s life.

    Would you consider any of the relationships portrayed in this anime as being meaningful when it comes to “love”? I guess that’s what it comes down to for me. I’m just a tad too optimistic, I suppose…..

  7. AlexS says:

    Hey, not all fiction works which deal with the absurdity of life are shallow. Also, it’s not because you don’t find meaning in their relationships, that it’s implausible that they themselves would feel otherwise(whereas in really bad works there’s no way the events can be credible).

    But really, if the characters irritate you, that you don’t identify yourself or are engaged by their problems and emotions, then it’s normal that it does not work for you.

    It’s a bit like the story of an alcoholic. You can be irritated by his incapacity to wean himself from the bottle, his constant relapses and the downwards spiral hes going through, because it’s just too foreign to your way of acting or away from your tastes, but it does not mean that the behavior of the alcoholic is meaningless. On the contrary, it is very logic, has a lot of meaning (in the sense that there are solid reasons that explain it).

    Anyway, if you’re not engaged by it, you’ll find it unwatchable, no matter the merits of the work (I think this was often the case when people viewed Wellcomme to the NHK!).

    As for myself, I also did not manage to hold on to Nana, but I can’t blame the work itself. It’s just not my taste of issues, or patterns of behaviors. I disliked Hachi, and the kind of problems she found herself in. And that’s all there is to it.

  8. Immelman says:

    Unless you’re really familiar with the music business world or the celebrity world, you can’t possibly judge if Nana is realistic or not. “Realistic” in this case just means “in accordance with what you imagine”. Hence it’s normal that some people find it realistic and some other don’t, because everyone thinks different.

    Concerning the love relations, they are indeed very complex and deeply rooted in the celebrity world. As for me, they are not realistic, but credible, and above all, very enjoyable.

    Moreover, it’s not often that we see manga heroes with drug addictions problems, prostitution problems, and early pregnancy. The characters are very well developped, and are not superficial by any means. Nana is really one of the best shoujou manga, and shoujou animes out there; I can’t think of more than 2 or 3 other shoujou animes that can rival with Nana.

  9. windy says:

    Nana is for me an outstanding series that stands out among many other classical shoujo series . The characters are depicted with a lot of realism, that’s what my first impression was. It also perfectly deals with problems of everyday life and the way everyone handles them, the characters ( especially the two protagonists) are so different and at the same time, they do need each other and are “soulmates” if I could put it that way, who were destined to meet on the train, by chance or coincidance or fate, whatever it is.

  10. Solaris says:

    Hi, can’t say much about Honey and Clover , nana and such shows cause they’re not my cup of tea. I was quite interested in your use of the term “realism”. I happen to notice that much people are inclined to associate realism with the depth of a story or its chars, that is not quite correct. So what do you think realism truly refers to?

  11. AlexS says:

    @10

    Maybe the word you’re looking for is credibility? i.e. the inner coherence of the story, that the characters behave in logic and credible ways according to their own universe (and not always to your own experience of the real world)

  12. Theowne says:

    AlexS makes some good points above that I agree with.

    @10

    This is why I’m trying to back away from the use of the word “realism”. It’s more about a basic sense of likability or sympathy with the characters. It’s very important to me, and plenty of others I’d assume, to like the characters as people, that’s what keeps me watching the anime, hoping for them to achieve what they desire.

    Realism is a more complicated concept, and I’ll say that yes, NANA realistically portrays certain kinds of relationships and people. They’re just not the kind I care about. And I would say that anyone looking for any deeper kind of love will not find it in NANA.

  13. Theowne says:

    P.S. With my celebrity gossip analogy, I also got the feeling that this was the kind of show that would be enjoyed most by the sort of audience that likes watching those American teen dramas like the O.C. or Degrassi. Do you guys disagree?

  14. Chris says:

    NANA shows superficial individuals who grow to understand that their personalities are flawed and try to change themselves, and just like real people they make mistakes and fall back into the world they try to escape, but the heartwarming growth in relationship is what really makes the show.

    I much preferred Paradise Kiss though. shorter and more realistic and extremely touching, made by the same team.

  15. Sapphire says:

    @Theowne
    “And I would say that anyone looking for any deeper kind of love will not find it in NANA.”

    Even though a “deeper kind of love” is somewhat of a relative concept, I have to disagree with you.
    *SPOILER ALERT* (for those who haven’t watched the anime)
    Wouldn’t you say Nana and Ren love each other? Years passed after their separation (which was truly heartbreaking) and they still longed for each other, time didn’t cool off their feelings at all.
    How about Nobu? I have no doubt that he was in love with Hachi, so much in love that he lost her without a fight because he believed she would be happier living with Takumi. He always put her happiness over his.
    And Yasu? He has always loved Nana, but never made his move because of his friendship with Ren. However he has always been there for her, always putting his true feelings aside.

    Hachi’s case is different though, because I don’t think she’ll ever be capable of loving someone before learning to love herself.

    Anyway, I’m pretty sure anyone can find love in NANA, as well as many different ways of dealing with it.

  16. senerikfred says:

    @Theowne, 13: I disagree, because my sister watches that kind of thing enough that I’ve seen bits, and it’s pretty bad.

    And I actually agree that it’s hardly my favorite show as a romance, but as a drama I love it. The characters are too mired in their flaws to pull off romantic love in its peaks. The relationships that interested me the most were more often those less than romantic and/or of no relation to the romance aspect, and the most interesting aspect of the romances was more often how they fell apart and what that meant for characters individually.

  17. Frost says:

    NANA is easily the most realistic romance anime out there and thus also the best… it manages to avoid most of the ecchi harem crap, and the way it presents sexual situations is great

    Thats what made me like it the most and what I usually criticize alot about romance animes, they just dont take it seriously, as if it were made for kids

    A good example is Clannad.. While Clannad is a nice series for other reasons, I find it pathetic that the main characters have a kid and we dont even see them kiss once in the whole anime… What the hell is that? It just takes away so much from the realism, it makes me feel like its a fake relationship

    Other than that, while one of the nanas is indeed superficial, thats how most people are i n the real world, so theres nothing wrong with that… and it made me hate her, which means it worked

  18. kagura says:

    @theowne

    I understand that you prefer characters from Honey & Clover and care about them more. As you said, they’re mature, itelligent and all that, so it’s actually hard not to like them. But real people aren’t always like that. And here’s where NANA comes in, portraying people that are less perfect. For me, that imperfection only makes them more human, and it definetely doesn’t make their problems any less meaningful or their love any less earnest.

    Actually, the plot of NANA revolves mostly around Hachi desperately wanting to love and be loved earnestly. Somehow, despite her flaws and failures, I sympathize with her more than, for example, with Hagu, who (SPOILERS for Honey and Clover ahead) has the perfect guy right next to her; a guy who truly loves her from the first to the last episode, whose love is as honest and pure as can be, but she doesn’t choose him, because she likes another guy, whom she doesn’t choose either, because she decides to stay with some other guy, whom she does love, only not romantically, but to whom she is grateful for all that he’d done for her (okay, I know that I’m probably oversimplifying things a little bit).

    Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love Honey & Clover and I love how it ended. If I were to write down my personal anime ranking, I’m pretty sure H&C would be higher than NANA, because I’m also a sucker for optimistic, heart-warming stories with lovable characters. But it still doesn’t mean I can’t get totally absorbed in a more dark and depressing story, where people have some real problems and not only “he/she doesn’t love me, because he/she loves someone else” like seen in H&C (yeah I know, I’m oversimplifying again).

    Other than that, I agree with everything that Sapphire said in comment #15

    And, to answer your question, no, I don’t watch American teen dramas, nor do I read celebrity gossip magazines (or even care for any of those) :P

  19. Theowne says:

    There are plenty of love-related anime that aren’t ecchi or harem related (and far better than NANA, in my opinion). And while I’ve never seen Clannad, characters don’t need to be physical all the time in order to portray a convincing love story.

  20. c160 says:

    @Saphhire,15: The examples you give are all nice and true.but don’t you think that the love between the two Nana is the deepest kind of love?Just pointing it out :)

    @Theowne,18: This is sort of SPOILER for the people who haven’t read the manga and have only watch the anime but since you obviously won’t read it,I’m gonna say it to you anyway.After the point where the 1st seaason ends,in the manga,the two Nanas sort of switch places where Nana becomes much more dependent on Hachi and becoming more and more of a trainwreck while Hachi stabilizes her life and become a stronger figure.Eventhough Hachi can’t really do anything to help the messy situations her friends and loved ones got into,tried her best not to make herself the main character of situations.Instead she tries her best to be there for friends(especially Nana) although sometimes she just can’t do it due to her other priorities(like her husband and child.And in the future scenes,her job and her children).But she still has her moments of course where we see her fickle heart takes center stage again (chapter 82-83 to be exact..) but she’s trying her best still.And to be fair,the series’ main selling point was never really the romance that the two Nana experiences but rather the relationship between the two of them..

  21. Sasa says:

    I’m waiting for maya (http://myillusion.net/itsumo/) to discover this posting, I’m sure she’ll have lots to say and I rarely see someone who gave so many insights on this manga as she did.

    So, for me, Nana is the manga that I have compared to my life for about 7 volumes or so, spanning about 3 years of my life. I have heard “Nana is totally like your life” many many times. Ever since, the characters in Nana have moved from “normal people” with financial issues to celebrities dealing with celebrity problems – that is true. But the core of what love is, I think that still remain very realistic compared to certain people’s lives; and for me it definitely is.

    Also, who says that real life is not superficial anyways, it’s not like all our relationships are so much deeper or more complicated than depicted in manga really. Sometimes relationships and people can be really simple and it’s be presumptious of us to pretend we’re more than that.

  22. Theowne says:

    I don’t think it’s presumptuous at all.

  23. AlexS says:

    @19 Theowne: Would you care to give a list of what you consider the best (realistic) love themed anime? It would be of interest for me. I guess you’ll cite stuff like “bokura ga ita”, or even “nodame cantabile” (ok, not very realistic) but what else?

  24. Solaris says:

    @11 AlexS.
    That’s right. What you wrote down is called suspension of disbelief and it helps keeping a story self coherent within its own universe.
    That’s the first rule for a well written story, but that applies to both fantastic, realistic and non realistic stories.
    Realistic stories have a basic set of rules that resembles those of the real world.
    So there’s no need to have fairly complex chars or deep plots. It’s enough that chars behave like real life chars and the plot avoid any completely fantastic event.
    Anyhow i also see how Nana’s fanboyism is taking over the thread :P I’m afraid it’d be useless to try gain some serius talk here

  25. Theowne says:

    AlexS:

    Well again, I don’t want to involve the term “realism” because it’s causing too much confusion. I think I’ve been crossing wires with people in this discussion because since the beginning I’ve just been giving my own perspective on the actual content of NANA, while others are interpreting it as an objective attack on the credibility (‘realism’) of the content. I think your alcoholic analogy has merit…

    But for love stories with characters (and therefore relationships) that I actually cared about: Maison Ikkoku and Honey and Clover are two examples. I liked Nodame Cantabile much more than NANA, though I’m also a classical music nut. For young-love type stories, Whisper of the Heart and Kare Kano are quite good. Oh, and Only Yesterday, another Ghibli film with an older cast.

    Are these characters “more realistic”? Doesn’t really matter because what’s more important is just that they’re different kind of people from those in NANA, the kind that I find more “worthwhile”, if that makes sense. So I find their love stories a lot more meaningful as a result. That’s all there is to it, from my perspective.

  26. lisa says:

    I’m going to go against the grain and side with Theowne here. I also did not feel engaged by or feel connected to the characters in Nana, though I did feel they had depth and felt like real people. As a point of comparison, Karekano is my favorite romance (though I generally dislike romances), mostly because I felt more of a connection to the main characters; years after high school and a few degrees later, their romantic interactions, working to balance their relationship and work/academics, and personal growth into more rounded people felt far more real to me than the heartache and drama in Nana.

    For the record, I actively hate a number of shoujo romantic dramas like Hana Yori Dango and can pretty much only tolerate romance if it’s comedy, or if it’s a smaller part of a bigger story. I do think Nana is at the peak of its genre, but it’s not my cuppa. I’d rather be watching, say, Saiunkoku Monogatari. \o/ Realistic? Um, no. But I identified with Shuurei and her problems much more than with anyone in Nana.

  27. c160 says:

    So at the end of the day,everyone agrees that Nana is realistic and it’s just a matter of connecting with the characters?

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Anonymous525559
I am suprised SEGA didn't announce an Sonic movie and went with games like Altered Beast and Crazy Taxi, they probably could have just ripped off one story from the Archie Sonic comics and make an movie based on that, preferably the story where Sonic travels in the multiverse to fight an super powerful Sigma alongside Classic Megaman and Megaman X,Steet Fighter cast,Breath of Fire 3 cast and more
AidanAK47
@Anon, A parody Grindhouse film actually could work. I consider Overkill the best of House of the dead. Thing is there actually is already a house of the dead movie so this would be their second attempt. The first attempt...lets just say it didn't work out.
Anonymous523336
And House Of The Dead: Overkill is probably the best game in the franchise to adapt, i mean, it has Isaac Washington in it and dude's awesome.
Anonymous523336
None of those games have much of a story, but at least House Of The Dead could make for an entertaining silly movie, i mean House Of The Dead: Overkill is freaking awesome and has silly cutscenes at the start and end of every level.
Kaiser Eoghan
At most moonbeam city seems sylistically interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
Archer I simply lost track of and it ended up getting to long to catch up on it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Relatively old news, although I've been joking with friends about what if scenarios for a streets of rage film. I know there is a cg/live action hybrid sonic film in the works. I kind of want to think a shinobi or streets of rage film could work if they went full on 70s style action film.
AidanAK47
None of these games are played for the story. You would be better off just making a new game for them instead of a movie.
AidanAK47
I haven't even seen Archer. On another note SEGA is planning a bunch of live action movies of their franchises and boy do they all sound like a horrible idea. Shinobi, Golden Axe, Virtua Fighter, The House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Streets of rage and Altered Beast.
SuperMario
@Anon522497: hmm, I found Moonbeam City underwhelmed and for Archer up until their last season I actually got a bit tired of the cast (couldn't finish that season 7)
Anonymous522497
If i wanted Archer i would just watch Archer or Moonbeam City like everyone else.
Anonymous522338
Bloodivores
SuperMario
Anyone here watching Pacific Heat? It's an Aussie Archer-ripoff aired in Netflix last week. I actually enjoyed the 1st episode, not that great but everyone panned it like a plague.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Who?
Anonymous521123
#StephanieJaworowiczIsBeautiful
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: That'd be the compiliation film. I watched that based on hearing that the film version trimmed back on the shows weaker moments.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: was it the compilation film or the series itself? That scene is the highlight of that first season. I'm always a fan of KyoAni so it's very natural that I enjoy this series a whole lot.
Kaiser Eoghan
I watched the first season of sound euphonium, not much to say for it other than I liked the teacher guy and the scene where the black haired girl tells the main character that she thinks shes hiding behind a mask. Animation was as expected of kyoani good. All of those emotion shots though and some of the melodrama...
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, it does stop if you make an account.
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmmm there we go again, it delayed sending my message for longer than it should have.
Kaiser Eoghan
Anyone notice today and last night that the site has had some loading issues? I kept getting an error page for a while and it was also loading a bit more slowly. A server issue?
Lenlo
Have to say, Flip Flappers ep 5 was pretty good. I love atmospheric settings like that.
Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not so much that I dislike post 50s fellini moreso I feel that his throw everything at the screen and hope what sticks method can be hit or miss.
SuperMario
While I don't really mind his later stuffs because he was masterclass, I have a pretty hard time for Paolo Sorrentino's later works. The thing is I don't care much about the high class society so everything is just ridiculously over the top and glamour and I'm tired of it.
SuperMario
I haven't watched nights of cabiria but I did watch La Strada and boy, I was sad for few days after watching it. Fellini mentioned that he was inspired to make this movie when seeing a woman pushing a cart from behind. The film really carry that sense throughout its running
SuperMario
Michael Haneke put Salo in his top 10 films. Quite understandable when you think about it. Still for me one of the movie that affected me deeply.
SuperMario
I really admire Elle for its ability to maintain its sharpness because under other inexperienced directors it could easily becomes a mess. Mel Gibson, really? He's one of the few actors that I absolutely dislike
SuperMario
@Kaiser: The Red Turtle remains one of the the most refreshing time I had this year in cinema, but then again I haven't watched much films lately. Agree with you on Sonia's performance, and I still think they could cut out the first 20' of the film because it feels out of place compare to the rest of the film
Kaiser Eoghan
Debating whether to bother catching up on I am a hero or watching the film adaptation. I haven't read it since they got rid of that one female character.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I've a feeling you'll like nights of cabiria, Fellini was cranking out some solidly effective social-realist dramas in the 50s before he fell into self-indulgence.
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I have that sound euphonium compilation film downloaded, I should get to that sometime.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also finally watched Salo, I ended up meeting it pretty much halfway. Some parts still retain the ability to effect a modern viewer, having seen his other works though its crazy just how different Salo is to them.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Seeing I, daniel Blake tomorrow and rogue one in a few weeks.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I hope Mel Gibson and Isabelle huppert win at the next oscars.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the red turtle for its visual style of storytelling and animation even if I didn't get as emotionally attached to it as others did. I also watched Aquarius nd was pretty much blown away by Sonia Braga's performance. Elle is now one of my favourite Verhoeven films and its a miracle he managed to maintain such a great balance successfully throughout the film.
SuperMario
I don't care for the sequel of Code Geass at all. Why Spice & Wolf still hasn't got season 3 though is what really bugged me. From what I know their manga and LNs are selling very well
Anonymous494677
I wonder why that is...
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, they were always milking code geass though what with those bajillion-million-billion manga spinoffs.
Kaiser Eoghan
Still say I was more fond of the character chemistry in spice and wolf as opposed to everything else.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll likely pass on the code geass sequel, the memory I have of it has already led to its appeal dimishing for me, I don't want to ruin things further watching an un-neccesary followup. Still avoiding utawerumono's second season for same reasons.
AidanAK47
After all there are things which need sequels and things which don't. And Code Geass never needed a sequel after R2's ending. Giving something a sequel can just ruin the conculsion of the orignal series. Case in point. Eureka Seven Ao. Remember that? Cause you shouldn't. Because it was terrible.
AidanAK47
Honestly I would have preferred Spice and Wolf Season 3.
AidanAK47
So...is anyone gonna mention that Code Geass is getting a sequel?
....Because Code Geass is getting a sequel.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am watching it as well. But I am a bit behind because I am watching the funimation broadcast dub. It's a very good guilty pleasure. I don't find it quite as funny anymore but it's still pure dumb fun.
SuperMario
@Anon487524: I'm still following it and it still remains a fun show to watch. I love the way they do the fan-servicey completely straight.
Topgavin
@anon I'll admit to watching it. While it is very simple and follows the sport anime formula religiously, it's still a blast to watch every week. This is also helped because you have no expectations for it before watching other than "oh god what's gonna happen this week".
Anonymous487524
Granted, nothing special, just one of those anime whose only worth is being fun to watch without being deep, but Keijo really is fun to watch, easily the best guilty pleasure anime in a long while to me.
Anonymous487524
I started watching it expecting an crappy fanservice anime with nothing of worth, but it ended up being actually pretty fun and awesome to watch.
Anonymous487524
Anyone here seeing Keijo?
SuperMario
What's up with 3-gatsu no Lion? Delayed for a week huh?
Kaiser Eoghan
Checked out Hedeki anno's godzilla re-boot earlier out of curiousity, its a bit plodding/dull at times but sometimes its high camp value played straight is kind of funny, having godzilla evolve during the film was a cool touch and I enjoyed every scene with him and making a Godzilla film today is still very relevant. Not a patch on the old ones though.
Anonymous482380
I think that movie was just so terrible that people made it into a meme. Stuff like "The Entire Bee Movie Except Evey Time They Say 'Bee' The Movie Speeds Up"
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm sorry lmao I had to, it seemed so appropriate a moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
AidanAK47
Fun Fact: The whole Bees shouldn't be able to fly thing is a myth.
Badesh
I think that was just a dry realization...
AidanAK47
@Topgavin, It's a meme to post the entire script of the bee movie in random places?
....I don't get the joke.
Topgavin
For anyone wondering, I think anon just copy/pasted the entire script for the Bee movie. Memes are goin strong
Anonymous479946
According to all known laws
of aviation,


there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.


Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.


The bee, of course, flies anyway


because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.


Yellow, black. Yellow, black.
Yellow, black. Yellow, black.


Ooh, black and yellow!
Let's shake it up a little.


Barry! Breakfast i
Kaiser Eoghan
Actually I think it was up to about episode ten or so I saw.
Kaiser Eoghan
From what I can recall I watched legend of the galactic heroes somewhere past the part with the Caligula guy.
AidanAK47
That is one thing I wonder about the remake. How are they going to make the space battles interesting? Cause for me theres only so many times you can watch tin boxes shoot lasers and explode.
AidanAK47
I didn't like LOGH until the third episode. That's when it started to catch my attention. It also helps that I have a interest in history as the plot of LOGH practically reads like genuine history.
AidanAK47
In my case the overhype didn't kill it for me as I generally try to avoid that. When I walked into LOGH I was under the impression that it would ahve merit but not be for me. After all I heard it was mostly politics and the politics of Gundam bore me to tears. Funny enough the opposite happened. The space battles bored me but the politics got me really interested.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, The problem is that the people who say that something is the best thing they ever seen don't actually mean it. Often it's just hyperbole. When talking we other people fans tend to blow certain things out of proportion unintentionally. Overrated is likely the wrong word but you get what I mean.
leahcimali
@AidankAK47 oh and are you going to write a review about it or because psngel already wrote a review of it you are not gonna write it ?
leahcimali
the problem is trying to rank art . Even comparing a comedy show and a story focus show is clearly impossible. @AidanAK47 do you think the overhype of some hardcore logh fan killed you enjoyment of the show ? Because sometimes when you expect nothing of something you can enjoy it more than when waiting for something incredible.
leahcimali
i hear the same thing from fan of lord of the ring, star wars and game of thrones, star trek ... etc. The hardcore fan of those says that they are the greatest things in history ... but saying there are overated is discrediting the quality of those. Nothing is perfect and again maintening equal quality in a longuer running show is impossible. But having a longer story create a more rich background
LookingForKeys
@Mario Kimi no Na ha is pretty damn good. Watched it while in Japan a couple weeks back. The story has well done surprises, and on the graphics side you can *really* see Production IG worked on it.
leahcimali
I don't think saying logh is overated is a good way to say it. All media with great aclaimed critics or even highly popular show suffer from the fan reaction. If fan claim that it is the best things that they have ever saw and you don't agree, it feels overated. But this is only pure subjectivity. Saying he is greastest thing in history is a way for fan to exprim there love
AidanAK47
However it has been placed on a unreasonable pedestal that nothing could live up to. Eva is sort of in the same boat. So yes it is overrated but that does not mean it isn't great.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, if anything is claimed to be the greatest thing in the history of mankind it is overrated. The basic idea that there is a single anime out there which is fundamental and universally better than all other anime regardless of genre or intent is inherently a flawed concept. I do certainly see why LOGH is so highly acclaimed and I believe it is well worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I didn't look into the details of the new LOGH remake. I was planning on doing that when I am doing an anime season preview for it whenever it's going to air next year. For a long anime it does rate highly but even then I am not certain it really needed all 110 of those episodes.
leahcimali
about your comment are you thinking the LOGH anime is overated ? i ask Because you said that there is plenty of anime you consided better .
Anonymous476875
about the remake won't it be a straight adaptation from the manga remake by the artist that made shiki ?
Anonymous476875
AidanAK47 personally i really loved legend of the galactic heroes and it is one of the anime that make one of the biggest impact on me. I found it the best "long" anime that i ever seen (more than 24 ep). But comparing it to anime with shorter format is a bit hard. you can make something that have perfect pacing in 1h30 but it is impossible with a 110 ep anime.
AidanAK47
Either way I am pretty certain that all other isn't crap to me now seeing as I have seen the so called pinnacle. In fact There are plenty of anime I consider better that LOGH.
AidanAK47
There are aspects of its story which wouldn't really work by today's standards.
AidanAK47
And I did it. I watched legend of the galactic heroes. I have slain the white whale of anime. It certainly was interesting to say the least but I think the remake coming is going to have trouble. I am in between giving it a 8 or a 9 but it's clear that LOGH is very much a product of its time.
Kaiser Eoghan
I didn't really care for this weeks flipflappers, the fanservice and also it was even more trigger than I could take.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Gavin@Mario: I'll get round to your name someday but I think this might be my last chance with shinkai.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: That disgaea review made me nostalgic because I remember my friends and I playing it back when it first came out. We found it difficult but were amused by it/liked the characters.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Are the manga posts exclusively for series with only a few chapters translated or series that came out in the past year or so? I've been reading gunka no balthazar and enjoying it enough and think it should get recommendation out there.
Topgavin
Just booked tickets to go see it on Sunday with my little sister. Was surprisingly reluctant but I know she'll like it, I've already seen it but pumped either way.
SuperMario
Your name movie has been showed theatrically here in Aus, I'm planning to rewatch it soon in theatre and then do a review on it. Is that alright with other admins?
SuperMario
so I guess the top 6 will advance to the final are: Otabek Altin (Kazakhstan), Giacometti (Switzerland), Yuri, Yurio, JJ and Phichit? Will be very cool final event haha
SuperMario
At the very least Yuri on Ice shows me how entertaining ice skating can be
SuperMario
@K-Off: have a good trip ahead K-Off. Well, it's still better than Japan (earthquake) I guess
K-Off
Well, heading to Korea tomorrow. What a time to go. In the middle of Korea's biggest financial scandal since the 80s.
Lenlo
Is it just me, or does the Yuri on Ice opening get more colorful and detailed every week?
SuperMario
Badesh, if you like to check out their other songs, give "Tunnels of Love" and "Romeo & Juliet" a listen. Though I just discovered Telegraph Road quite recently, those 2 songs are qmong my all time favorite
SuperMario
I prefer their ealier version when the band was still together (aLCHEMY 1983), but that Rome 2005 was magnificent too. Seriously with this band diifferent live versions feel like another experience... And that song is criminally under-heard in radio too, because of its running time. A crying shame
Badesh
uhh, found it in better quality. now, THAT is a fitting present for my dad :)
Badesh
well that commentator, that sounds like he's in a soccer match, will get on my nerves though...
Badesh
if you're talking about the rome 2005 version... hell, that's some sweet music. i'll inhale that for the rest of the evening, thanks for that
SuperMario
Anyone here listen to Dire Straits? I just in the mood for their music lately. Checked out the band playing Telegraph Road live the other day on youtube and I was completely stunned.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I considered Flip Flappers 3,5,6 to be its best so far so continue on to see if Flip Flappers is your cup of tea or not
SuperMario
For me I have a lot of stuffs to catch up on this time a year, both in terms of anime and in my RL. Time goes fast as hell
Lenlo
Started watching Flip Flappers. Thought I had it figured out, then we got Mad Max going on. I may start liking it more, cause the first 2 eps didnt do much
Lenlo
Its also nearing Thanksgiving in the states and end of semester for University, so those sorts will be busier than usual.
AidanAK47
You are far too young to be reminiscing. You can build a place for a community but you can't force one to come. I for one would think it would be easier to form one if people stopped using the Anon tag. You can change your name with the customize button you know.
Anonymous469664
I remember a time when people other than site admins were regular posters. Those were the days...
Total users: 25

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