Posted by psgels on 28 August 2009 with categories: Phantom



Oh my God, Cal just becomes more and more awesome with every single episode. Up till now we’ve only seen glimpses of her new version, and what she turned into ever since she was abandoned by Reiji and taken in by Scythe, but only in this episode we get a full grasp of her deep-seeded hate against Reiji. And this episode yet again was absolutely amazing. People have often asked me why the heck I’m such a big Bee-Train fan. Now THIS is why! Time and time again they end up creating a truly awesome cast of characters.

And while it’s indeed true that they sexed up Cal a bit too much, they do get the point across: someone who started out as a sweet little girl is now cursing all over, lost any trace of compassion, living solely for revenge and has no future at all if she does manage to kill off Reiji. What hit me the most was when Reiji asked her to leave Helen alone. It then all hit her that Reiji indeed was the bastard she imagined him to be, who left her for dead and instead is willing to protect Ein with his life.

At this point, Reiji’s apologies and the words that he thought she was dead obviously can’t easily put things right anymore, since they’re just going to come off as cheap excuses. The fact remains that Reiji just walked off without confirming Cal’s dead body, because he was too occupied by Helen. It’s completely understandable, but it completely destroyed Cal’s chance of growing up happily.

Also, I’ve said this many times before, but I really feel the need to repeat that I absolutely love the soundtrack for this series. In this series, it has become much more than simply a bunch of songs that play into in the background. Bee-Train was already experimenting with this kind of soundtrack during Blade of the Immortal, in which it really worked, and for this series they again compiled a crazy soundtrack that’s full of many different songs, ranging from the quiet ones to the mindfuck tracks. These songs aren’t meant to be simple elevator music, but they’ve become a very important part of the storytelling itself, and I really love the way it turned out.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

22 Responses

  1. mei says:

    you need someone like Sawashiro Miyuki to pull off Cal’s madness, no?

  2. coyo says:

    Whats up with the music at end with the moaning woman O_o

  3. Perrin4869 says:

    I have only seen up till last episode, but really, doesn’t ANYONE here feel the creators have jumped over the shark big time?
    Let’s start by saying that I wasn’t really hooked to this anime from the first episode, but it grew on me as it went along. I loved the end of the first arc where Reiji end up shooting Ein, and the next arc started strong with the introduction of Cal, and her chemistry with Reiji. But somewhere along the lines it started to break my suspense of disbelief. I think it started when Ein turned out to be alive as well. Well, I could overlook that, and I kept watching. Next, Ein fights to the death with Zwei, and in the last moment she deflects, even though she almost died protecting Scythe Master at the end of the first arc, and all with the stupid excuse that she couldn’t keep living without Zwei. Yeah, get real. And then, Cal goes nuts for no reason at all, and is angry at Zwei? Does she sincerely think he deserted her? How could he have known she wasn’t caught in the fire? What’s wrong with her, she wasn’t portrayed as completely irrational before, she was supposed to be smart. And Scythe Master just guessed that she was alive, reached out to her and trained her.
    And now the new arc changed the setting to a high school? Where do Zwei and Ein get their living from? Who are their parents? Who cares about a high school in a show about the mafia?

    Now, maybe I got something wrong up there, but as it stands now, the plot and the characters are completely ridiculous, and I’m very disappointed with how this anime turned out

  4. Nighty says:

    To be fair, Beetrain didn’t create them, they merely took the entire thing page-by-page from the VN. Some parts really excelled more than the VN in terms of presentation, but at the same time, some scenes were weaker.

    @Perrin4896

    Zwei has money. Enough for a while. Also, they hired 2 people to act as their family who’s supposedly working overseas. Small things that aren’t clearly stated, but obvious when you think about what they’re capable of.

    Also, you still seem to miss the whole point about Cal’s underlying emotions. It is irrational, but that’s the whole point. Keep watching.

  5. AGTF says:

    Seems like another awesome episode. Waiting for the sub unpatiently (^_^)

  6. Mentar says:

    Mhhh… not quite ;)

    You correctly identified the scene in which Cal punched Reiji after giving the “it’s fine to kill me, but leave Ein alone” line as vital, however your interpretation of it is a bit off. What else could cause her to react like this? Mull over that a little.

    The characterization of Cal is done very very well here. My suggestion: When you rewatch it subbed, check if what she says matches with how she (re)acts. And where it doesn’t, what could possibly be the reason for it?

  7. Gilberto I. Silva Jr says:

    @Perrin4896
    You don’t understand why Cal went nuts because you are thinking with your brains.
    Try to think with the hormones of a teenage girl in love who found hope (and a cool boyfriend) but was deceived, hurted and lost everything for the THIRD TIME! ;)

  8. Perrin4869 says:

    Assuming I accept Cal going nuts and wanting to kill Reiji, even though it completely contradicts her character up until that point, what about Helen’s change of character in one mere second? Was that somehow justified too? Didn’t she make it clear she was Scythe Master’s doll by taking a bullet to her heart (again, forgetting about the fact that she should have been killed, completely destroying the suspense of disbelief)? Where did the crap about not being able to live without Reiji come from all of a sudden, after having had a duel to the death with him?

  9. Nayrael says:

    @Perrin4869:
    1. Cal was always vengeful. Remember when she hired Reiji to kill not only Judy’s killer, but everyone involved in the incident. Remember how she wanted to see the death of the killer with her own eyes or how she wanted to become an assassin herself? She was always like that, don’t let her loli look fool you.

    2. Elen actually jumped between Reiji and Scyhte in order to stop Reiji from killing someone from his own free will. However, she was a bit late so a bullet hit her and she just made the situation worse.
    And that death match in ep18 was actually just a show. Neither of them planned to kill another but planned to be killed instead.

  10. Perrin4869 says:

    Cal being vengeful was never the point. What I mean by not following her character is that she was shown as charismatic, like for example, wanting to help Reiji in his work. And now suddenly she is separated with him under some circumstances, and all she can think of is revenge? Wouldn’t a charismatic and practical person just try to think of a way to go back to Reiji’s side? Sure, she was vengeful of people who wronged her, but Reiji was still out there, probably thinking she died…

    And as for Ein, sorry, it still sounds like crap fiction. Real life people don’t think that way, only bad anime characters do, so either way (trying to protect Scythe Master, or stopping Reiji from killing) is a lose situation in my book

  11. Perrin4869 says:

    Oh, and is anyone taking bets that Claudia is still alive?

  12. TonyT61 says:

    Watching that episode again, you have to remember that this isn’t just Cal acting on her own for 2 years. At the ruined apartment, where she waits for Reiji out of desperation and longing, Scythe Master shows up. This sets up a confused and angry train of thought going through Cal’s mind, because while we mostly just see SM showing up onto the scene, he’s there to persuade Cal that Reiji never truly cared for her.

    Remember, she’s been training as a new Phantom for 2 years under Scythe Master. While she may have not been brainwashed and put through the same events as Elen, she still works with a man who constantly deceives her into following her angry emotions ans seeking revenge. The main point is: it’s not just about what Cal could have done differently, it’s the fact that SM has been influencing her.

  13. tealovertoma says:

    I agree with Perrin4869, Cal is completely overreacting. There was a fucking explosion and she was supposed to have been killed. She hates him so much for… assuming the obvious? Okay, he should’ve checked if she was okay but he never meant her any harm. Does this really justify Cal going kind of psycho on us and wanting to kill everyone? If she’s actually jealous of Ein and that’s why she wants to kill her, fair enough. But if she truly means that she wants to kill Reiji (something I don’t think that she does, so I hope she’s just acting but maybe she just doesn’t unconsciously realise she still cares for Reiji), I find it completely ridiculous reasoning.

    And I kinda agree with the show jumping the shark with keeping everyone alive all the time. It’s no longer realistic in any way. But I also felt more connected emotionally to the characters before we found out Ein was alive. Cool plot twists are nice, but they should never exist at the cost of character development.

  14. tealovertoma says:

    Despite all of that I am still enjoying the show, though. It’s just not quite as amazing as it was when he was training Cal =/

  15. Mentar says:

    Look, kids. It’s really not hard to understand, if you see it from her perspective. Here’s what really happened with some extra game knowledge:

    From Cal’s perspective Reiji promised to return no matter what, but never did. He didn’t even look for her (she waited 3 days in the burnt-out ruins), so she concluded that he was dead.

    Then however, SM popped up. He told him that Reiji wasn’t dead – rather that he fled, with another woman. That he’s a cheater and betrayer. After the promise Cal made with Reiji, this was a pretty ugly shock.

    Over time, SM trained her into Drei, working – as he put it – to unearth and nurture the hatred within Cal. Gradually poisoning her with stuff like “he felt that you were to surpass him, and so he ran”. And “he’s been lying to you all the time”. And “she uses and deserts anybody, he did it before”. Stuff like that. Cal always had a vindictive, angry streak, so she gobbled it up and gradually corrupted.

    Now she’s seeing him again, and not only did he elope with Ein, he even flirts with Mio, the Godoh Group princess. And finally he even uses her as a shield. Putting all this together, why the heck should she NOT be hating him like this?

    However, there’s one more twist to it which will be revealed later.

    Finally this “killed people showing up all the time” talk is nonsense. There was one questionable episode with this (when Reiji and Elen each got shot), but ever since, dead people didn’t resurface. The reason why nobody died in the bomb blast is clear – Reiji was busy and Cal was visiting a video rental to check out the VCR she fixed. So I’d say it’s time to put it to rest.

  16. Perrin4869 says:

    OK, so considering the part where SM finds Cal as plot twist from the writer, and Cal being stupid enough to listen to SM, who is supposed to be skilled at brainwashing people, I will agree that Cal could get completely mad and vengeful. So, one flaw that can be explained.

    It still doesn’t erase the fact that Helen and Reiji’s reunion was one of the least credible ones ever, and Helen’s reasons are downright laughable, and that she should be dead, and that they turned the setting into a bloody high school because… Well, sure, Ein and Reiji were teenagers all along, and the only thing this show needed was high school nonsense. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think high school shows are necessarily bad – I watch Cross Game, Aoi Hana, and I loved many shows which took place in high school, like Ghost Hound for example. The only difference between them and Phantom is that they didn’t force the setting to be a high school. And really, why are there shows, like Guin Saga, which also have a complex plot, but don’t have to rely on crap to keep going?

    Sorry, but at this point, I can’t take the show seriously anymore. No matter what excuse you have, you don’t do the things that the creators have done here. It’s bad plot writing, characters acting with ridiculous reasons (talking more about Helen than Cal, after what’s been in the comments above), and I’m still taking bets on Claudia being alive. This show feels like the creators were making stuff up as it went, instead of having cemented their character’s personalities, and having a more or less planned plot. I didn’t expect it to turn into my favorite series, that place is saved for Darker than Black, but I hoped to enjoy good storytelling, and it disappointed

  17. Rimah says:

    Nice post Mentar, and I agree with you (though I haven’t played the game).
    What we see here isn’t the logical and innocent Cal from the last arc, but a Cal that has been talked into hating Reji for the past two years.

    One point I’m wondering about is your previous post.. you mention that there’s a different reason for her behaviour, but you just said the same as psegls in his entry.

  18. tealovertoma says:

    Regardless, the moaning woman song is great.

  19. windy says:

    Yeah, I also found it a little too hard to believe in the sudden Cal’s transformation at first, but we have to take into account that two years have passed , two years of her being beside Scythe and his group of people, a teenage girl like her could be very easily influenced and besides she turned out way too rebellious and unpredictable , some people change depending on the circonstances of life, that isn’t new, besides a child’s mind is sensitive and she seems to have lost some of her senses, growing to be an incredibly amazing and outstanding character, by the way. Just for this transformation of hers , this series could be placed among the best. I love the originality of this series, due to the visual novel, I guess, that has to be incredible as well, but the characters are just exceptionnal in every way, and I just loved Cal’s transformation, she wasn’t a character I liked before but now, she’s become my favorite, I like her sway of mind!

  20. Kari says:

    I agree with Mentar, especially after watching the episode with sub. It seems that Cal gets very mad after Reiji says he would give up his life as long as Elen isn’t hurt. I can understand how she feels since she liked him a lot and she felt betrayed when he left her alone. Right now I don’t think she’ll listen to anything Reiji says.

  21. Juni says:

    Cal needs to cool it with the loser flags, or else she’s going to get seriously screwed over one of these episodes.

  22. T_I says:

    Don you think Reiji would have died by now if Cal really wanted him dead?

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Anonymous870083
mm okay thanks!
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Think you might just have to go with a torrent. It's pretty hard to find direct download anime these days.
Anonymous870541
the latest episode of rakugo just made my heart sank. i didn't think it would get better than it already is. i thank god that i didn't read ahead
Anonymous870083
does anyone know where I can download the remastered version of the Utena series? without torrent?
SuperMario
the same very thought here Lenlo. What I considered the weakest part turned out to be so layered. Sorry for ever doubting you, Rakugo.
Lenlo
And that smirk at the end, beautiful
Lenlo
The weakest plot point of S1 has just become the best part ever.
Lenlo
OOH MAN. I was not ready. The entire first season was all a setup. I cant. What. HOW DOES IT GET BETTER
Lenlo
Cant wait to watch Rakugo tonight, just got home and im lookin forward to it,.
AidanAK47
I think before grabbing the protest signs it might be worth considering if the thing you are demanding be uncensored is even worth it. Oh yeah, now you can see genitalia in crap sex scenes that were crow bared into the plot. No more need to use your imagination.
AidanAK47
Some protest because they want there porn. That I suppose I can understand even if I think they would be better off buying some nukige. But then there are those who demand it just for the sake of standing against censorship. They don't give a crap about the game or the fact we are getting the exact same thing the japanese got. What? Censorship of sexual organs? DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!
AidanAK47
There are people actively proclaiming they won't buy the game, because they can't see dicks. That is not hyperbole. This is literally exactly whats happening here. And they just act so goddamn self righteous about it. Porn is not the goddamn point of these games. Shouldn't even be in them in the first place.
AidanAK47
So another Sekai Kickstarter is up for a trilogy of Visual novels called A Clockwork Ley-Line. Chipped in my bit as I am going to be buying this regardless but like goddamn clockwork you get the idiots yelling for Mosaic removal. No matter how I try to rationalize it, this just sounds stupid.
Kaiser Eoghan
Just whenever I think Rakugo may be dragging its feet it comes out a gives me three big strong moments in this weeks episode, you will know them when you come to them.
K-Off
Dubbing in more subdued performances work fine. It just becomes unbearable when it involves shouty dialogue, which idescribes most of the Japanese games I play.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I think at the time it allowed Bagel (where did he go?) to find some exploit/gap in the sites security too.
SuperMario
I mean the spoiler code in the comment section. ^^. Like I don't mind if readers give (potential) spoilers but I don't want to ruin the fun of other readers as well
AidanAK47
After all it wasn't a intended feature of the old shoutbox. We were pretty much hacking the thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
I seem to remember all those old html codes stopped working on the old shoutbox too at one point.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was also originally an ability to animate text too of the shoutbox and have gifs appear in the message box but not as links.
AidanAK47
I remember some HTML code worked with the old shoutbox but nope. But I suppose you could change the colour of text to white...though that would effect everything you write.
SuperMario
Btw, do we have spoiler tag here Aidan?
SuperMario
@anon861679: Agreed. They have big ambitions, but they seems unsure on what to do next. I mean engaging your readers to give their thoughts is good, but if it is a mean for you to get inspiration to write essay about isn't that great. Well, give them say 6 months until they can settle down (they just launched this site for 3,4 months only)
Kaiser Eoghan
Despite being fine with anime in English, I've almost always felt that voice acting in videogames isn't as good.
Anonymous861679
Hey mario, that anime feminist blog was well, kind of awful. While they're well intentioned, it felt like they were pushing tumblr stuff onto chan stuff and that always ends up in a smoking mess.
SuperMario
Okay I'm going to erase my memories right now
SuperMario
I swear I'll stay off reddit for good. Have been spoiled by the development of ACCA by one of their "theory". As soon as I realized it's freaking spoiler I stopped but what done is done. Ahhhhhhhhhh
K-Off
Christ Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty addicting, micro transactions are not necessary at all. Though it irks me that I can't get Japanese voices. Dubs just make me cringe every time.
SuperMario
@ckspike: Hand Shakers, the very quality that makes you brain cells die while watching it. Well, I actually think the music is one of the best part of the show, now that you mention it like that...well...*slap my forehead*
ckspike
... my roommate just told me the background music when I'm watching Hand Shakers sounds like a bad porno... Now I can't unhear it. Fuck!
Lenlo
I havnt kept up with Academia, for some reason it just didnt catch me as well as the movie first did.
AidanAK47
You know what's funny? I thought little Witch Academia would be the hardest one to blog. Yet halfway into the current season and it's the one I write the most about.
Lenlo
I actually dont read many blogs. Mostly just this place and the occasional pop on reddit
Anonymous859067
I'd like to present to one of my favorite blogs, A work I just created: Greed Island! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tc2r.greedisland
AidanAK47
I go to Reddit anime myself but I don't really like the upvote system. Basically the majority rule opinions get put to the top which more often than not are jokes.
HelghastKillzone
I listen to podcasts on youtube and others places as well as going on Reddit Anime to hear a thousand people yammering away.
Kaiser Eoghan
I irregularly follow the episode reviews on ANN and sometimes read standing on my neck. I fell out of the habit of following random curiousity.
SuperMario
Anime Feminist (animefeminist.com), while sounds ambitious on paper, hasn't been too hot unfortunately. I know they aim to be "big" so they're still figuring out how to do it best. Well, good luck for them!
SuperMario
Oh, I know I've mentioned this site before but you guys should read it (blog.sakugabooru.com), this site is one of the only few blogs that I actively subscribed to read their post. They have some insights to the anime industry that is very informative and inspiring
SuperMario
I also think that this chatbox here plays a great role to keep a fair amount of readers for the site, as many sometimes just come here to give their two cents on certain anime.
SuperMario
I just checked out rabujoi blof for the first time, (https://rabujoi.wordpress.com) and I think they're in pretty good shape. Content-wise are solid (as far as I read), and they update their post pretty regularly (comparing their amount of posts last month (80) to ours (28), ouch)
SuperMario
Just really wonder, what are other anime sites that you guys follow beside this? Well, ANN and RandomC are a given, but I found myself haven't bothered to read ANN's episodic reviews lately (mostly due to time constraint)
AidanAK47
Don't tell me this is gonna be a regular thing.
Lenlo
There we go
Lenlo
Oh god JSON objects. I thought that nightmare was over
SuperMario
Mine is working probably as well. Thanks a bunch K-Off and glad to hear back from you.
K-Off
No problem.
K-Off
I really need to figure out how to get those damn tooltips working again on the sidebar thumbnails. It'd be useful to have the descriptions popup.
AidanAK47
Cleared my cache and it looks to be fixed. Thanks as always K-Off. I would be completely screwed without you around.
K-Off
Alright I think that did it. Let me know if it pops up again. If you still see it, clear your browser cache and let me know if its still there.
AidanAK47
Messages still get sent. You just might have to reload the page. We are working on getting it fixed.
Vonter
AidanAK47 I can't get into Fate since like with Nanoha there's a lot of stuff with those names in it. Zero was the most straightforward, yet the buildup was very dragout but the payoffs where very worthy.
HelghastKillzone
testing message.
AidanAK47
This is what I get for updating the bloody plugin.....
AidanAK47
He finished it and was telling me what he thought of Saber defeating Gilgamesh. Minute he said that I was like "OH GOD..." He watched the Deen 2006 adaption. Sadly it loos like he's not going to bother watching UBW TV despite me showing him part of the berserker fight. With Fate/Extra, Fate/Grand Order, Fate/Apocrypha, Fate/Oath under the snow and all the rest this problem will happen again.
AidanAK47
You know I wish the Fate series did a better job naming it's series. I was introducing a newbie so I gave him Fate/Zero first. He loved it so I specifically told him to watch the UBW TV Series and don't mistake it for the movie. He then went and watched the movie. I told him to watch the TV series regardless and brought up the MAL page to show him which one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, there's definately no harm in doing further reading on more arthouse stuff before reviewing it/watching/after watching, it extends our understanding and is pretty much required.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Go for it, you might sell me on reading it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah, I generally only write reviews every now and then, and they tend to be kept simple and to 200-300 words. My writing ability only really works when I write in stream of consciousness.
Anonymous855550
Zestiria is such a feast for the eyes... The colors and backgrounds are so vivid and magnificent. Story has improved on the game's weaknesses too!
Lenlo
Given enough time, im sure I could write something, but as I writer I tend towards quick, decisive statements of what I think and why. Engineer, so technical documents are like the only thing I know how to write.
Topgavin
@Supermario ah, I'd say I'm the opposite in that I sometimes don't know why I like something so much, and when I read a review about it I can relate my own experiences and put it in my own words pretty well. Can thank Highschool eco for that
SuperMario
But to tell you guys the truth, I never think that I'm cut out as a reviewer (even now), because I'm a type of viewer who more perceive (I know why I like/ don't like stuffs) than express (just can't never explain stuffs well)
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it's depending on what grabbing you really; as I always find shows with heavy symbolisms like Penguindrum or Flip Flappers the easiest to dig deeper. But those are always my kind of show to begin with
Topgavin
I'd find it really hard to write something about a show without reading about it first; watching it one time by myself I usually only notice the big things. Stuff like Flip Flappers I had no clue what half the episode's hidden meanings were, can't imagine reviewing a show like NGE or penguindrum.
SuperMario
that's exactly how I write my reviews anyways
Lenlo
I cant imagine writing a review, id just repeat myself with different words but the same intended meaning over and over again
AidanAK47
Wonder if I should write a review of this. Might be hard without giving too much away.
AidanAK47
(Finishes Sweetest monster Visual novel)
.....well....fuck.
(Buys all authors visual novels on steam.)
Lenlo
Sadly, I doubt Nioh will get a PC port. Sony is pretty stingy on their exclusives, like Bloodborne. But I am so very happy with Nioh. I love technical combat like this
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose this means I'm looking into this rpg maker game thing now isn't it? Might aswell.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the word animerican used to describe things like avatar last airbender. Filthy word =P
Anonymous853606
God no. Jiro Taniguchi died.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I have been hearing very good things about Nioh. Really hoping it gets a PC port.
@Topgavin, No real surprises there.
Topgavin
I'm sure most of you have heard, but looks like New Game is getting a season 2 out of all things. Apparently they had good sales, and I can certainly see why. CGDCT with yuri undertones and clean animation is hard to get wrong, let alone not sell.
Lenlo
Just started with Nioh, and oh my goodness do I love it.
Anonymous852887
anyone play resident evil 7? its so good.
AidanAK47
Thought that's because the term American Anime just feels wrong to me on all levels.
AidanAK47
@Anon, they do not. They are cartoons.
Anonymous852775
DO people call D.C. Comics animated movies American anime?
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am certainly interested in seeing the next episode. Those minisodes were pretty good too. One thing I thought the writting faltered on though was the comedy. It really was a little too slapstick considering how serious the drama was.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: ah remind me the time I went to Texas (Corpus Christy) before X-mas time and I was wearing short pants and thongs (nice!!!), then went all the way up to Niagara Falls and I was almost freezing there.
Lenlo
See, I love winter, but its almost non-existent in Texas
Anonymous852268
@Aidan: I agree. I loved To the Moon. It's so good seeing emotional drama that isn't centered around high-school kids. Seeing the ups and downs of a whole long life of a person gives everything that happens way more impact.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: An Australian friend put it as "A sunbaked rock in summer, a giant zoo, that actively tries to kill its population"
SuperMario
Not that I'm enjoying the winter either. Why autumn always go so fast?
SuperMario
Believe me but summer here is way too much. When it's too hot and dry it starts bushfiring really badly. And it's too hot that even a big fan straight in front of you don't do you any good
Kaiser Eoghan
What is this mysterious creature known as summer you refer to? =P My country is grey as a black and white film =P
SuperMario
I'm wondering how freezing you guys have to endure right now, but the place I came today in Aussie just reached 50 degree celsius this noon. So hot I felt myself burning
Lenlo
I think the part I liked the most, was just how satisfying those mud splatter sounds were. I dont know why, but its in my head
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki 6 subs came out at 11pm PST.
Lenlo
Atleast Rakugo didnt get held up. Still amazing as ever
AidanAK47
Well I spent my time waiting for it to come out by playing and finishing To the Moon. Got to say, it takes some real skill to make a game in RPGmaker that can make you really feel something. But maybe I am just a sucker for this kind of story.
SuperMario
Hey, I would be very frustrating if Hand shakers got delayed. But I agree this delay is caused by Being X. And Scum's Wish, haizzz, this is the show we love to get pissed at. Haha
Anonymous850298
I blame Being X.
AidanAK47
Sigh, Youjo Senki 6 is delayed. Why is it always the best shows that get delayed? If an episode of hand Shakers was delayed no one would give a crap but nope. Gotta be the show you want to watch right away.
AidanAK47
@Anon, in both anime and manga I never liked that character much.
Anonymous849783
Meh, dropped Masamune-kun. Seriously why do they always have to shove in these one dimensional characters with a crush out of f* nowhere. It never made any of these shows more interesting, it's always the opposite.
Vonter
@Kaiser Eoghan - I find it weird having the teacher being so unashamedly evil. In a way I like that, but at the same time I can't relate to the notion of people like that existing IRL.
Kaiser Eoghan
As I continue to watch scums wish, it becomes an anger inducing as much as it is engrossing experience.
AidanAK47
Or the UBW movie over the TV series. You just don't do that.
AidanAK47
That's like recommending someone to watch NGE death and rebirth instead of the TV series.
Kaiser Eoghan
Meh, I just got fed up with the padding in the tv version.
AidanAK47
Jojo has the kind of entertainment that clicks with you or doesn't so I understand if you didn't get into it. Though to give it a fair chance I would recommend trying the first episodes of Battle Tendency. It starts at episode 10 of the first season, you can jump to it. If that doesn't catch you then Jojos really isn't for you.
AidanAK47
Don't listen to Kaiser. The OVA is bad.
Kaiser Eoghan
....found out where a friend had been off to lately, making a movie and he ended up actually making and finishing and I got first dibs. Had a hard time commenting on it as I know the guy personally.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Totally with you on the academy thing.
@Lenlo: If you ever try jojo again and get onto part three go for the ova instead as it trims down an overly bloated arc.
Lenlo
For JoJos, I couldnt get through the first season. It just didnt hook me
Lenlo
What I dont understand is how anything other than Mob Psycho won best animation, cause my god.
Lenlo
I think Erased lost not because of the libido, but because Yuri was "gay" and "progressive" and most important of all, recent. Yuri had just finished airing so it was stuck in everyones heads. Of course it was going to win everything
AidanAK47
Erased truly deserved to win that category and it only lost because people voted with their libido instead of their head.
AidanAK47
If there's one thing that really makes me angry about these awards it's Yuri on Ice winning most heartwarming moment for "The Kiss". Because A) It wasn't a fucking kiss and B) Even if it was that isn't heartwarming. Oh I am sure something is getting warm but it sure as hell isn't your heart.
AidanAK47
Likely the main reason Kira didn't win main villain because Jojo has grown to a episode count which makes people hesitant to pick it up. Not to mention many would lose interest by Stardust crusaders midpoint.
AidanAK47
When it comes to judging quality you have to leave it to the people who have experienced enough of the medium to truly be able to critical judge it. Pretty darn sure most who voted didn't even bother watching everything worthwhile each season and just gravitated towards whatever they were exposed to.
AidanAK47
Lets not forget someone voting multiple times and bot voting. Because yes, people really do that. As you two pointed out, a public vote was never truly going to be a accurate gauge of quality. For you are not only opening the vote to anime lovers but also newbies and those who simply haven't refined their tastes yet.
SuperMario
so they either abstained their votes (which actually was reasonable); voted for something popular or even voted based on what their kids liked the most (which was flat out unforgivable).
SuperMario
This from my own frustration mostly when it comes to awards like this. But I've been following the Academy Awards for way too long now and every now and then you heard something that really disheartened about their voting process. Like for example many of the Academy members admitted that they don't care to watch anything animated because... it's kiddy stuff
SuperMario
TL;DR: my point is I have mixed feeling about the whole Crunchyroll awards. One more thing that I noticed about the nomination is that the pool was dominated by shows from the first half of last year.
Lenlo
I dont think public voting is the way to go is the thing. Popularity contests are horrible. With popularity contests moe is going to be near the top every time, while shows like Rakugo never really have a chance. And I think there is little doubt that Rakugo was one of the best shows last season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: there is an issue with the first thou, because reviewers like us don't actually represent the whole public opinions. So it's all come down to the very reason they create an award in a 1st place (your second point). But with voting we can't really reason why the winners win the trophy, right?
Lenlo
The problem with awards like that is for them to mean anything they need 2 things. 1) A board of voters who are actual reviewers who have watched a large portion of what was on shelf that season. 2) Reasons for why each thing won its award. An award without reasons means nothing
SuperMario
Other issue about voting for these awards is that the nominating body and the voting body aren't always the same. Usually the voting body is broader and more generic in taste, so I'm not at all surprised when shows like Rakugo couldn't win. Too art-house for their liking. Well, at least it got nominated which for me is good enough.
SuperMario
That's the thing. When it comes to awards, they are more 'popularity' contest than actual quality, since people tend to vote for the safer choice (the one that are both popular and mildly critical success), YOI fits the bill here.
Lenlo
Those awards were not the best and little more then a popularity contest imo.
SuperMario
Actually with that line-up I had no problems with YOI taking the top spot
SuperMario
I actually forgot about the Crunchyroll Anime Awards so I came to check the winner. Guess which show won AOTY huh? Alright, at least it wasn't Kabaneri or Jokers Game
Kaiser Eoghan
But the best one was Mask of Phantasm.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: And return of the joker also.
Kaiser Eoghan
It has aged admittedly very poorly, but I always got a great kick out of that old 1994 spiderman cartoon.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I think its fair to use the term K-anime or C-anime for the Korean and Chinese influenced stuff, or maybe just anime would be just as appropriate. If some Argentinian guy can write/draw a manga for a Japanese manga magazine (big comic superior thats the magazines name) and have it actually be called a manga, it should be the same for China/Korea.
Lenlo
Mhmm. Marvel had the movies, but DC had the animated series
AidanAK47
Man, I loved the villains of Batman Beyond. Inque and Shriek had such interesting powers. The DC animated shows tended to be the one that didn't treat you like a kid while watching.
Lenlo
Well, they released a trailer for Samurai Jack S5, so its coming. Batman Beyond I also enjoyed
AidanAK47
Ah Samurai Jack. Wonder how that Adult swim revival is going? Batman the Animated Series as well didn't need Batman to crack off jokes every minute to be great.
Lenlo
Agreed. Samurai Jack was one of my favorite cartoons for that very reason. It ran the gamut of genres, each episode being something different.
Also I used Nichijou cause it was the first to come to my mind as a "Kids Show", though Love-Ru works as well
AidanAK47
One thing I think Cartoons could do to move away from the stigma of being for kids is having more genres than Comedy and Action adventure. Or at least stop putting comedy in everything.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Every fanbase has it's fanatics. There are idiots everywhere.
@Lenlo, I thought this might come up though I was expecting more of "placing Berserk and To Love-Ru in the same category" thing. Honestly I don't have a rebuttal for that. What is an isn't anime is really a matter of what anime is to you.
Lenlo
Now Aidan, you say putting Berserk and Scoopy doo in the same category is wrong, but what about Berserk and say.. Nichijou? A similar problem comes up and I think thats more to do with Berserk being a pretty major outlier (And I love it for being so. Have all the original Dark Horse volumes on my shelf)
Lenlo
Really though, reading Reddit arguments about it is so much fun.
Lenlo
I do think that recently, a number of shows have been trying to move cartoon, and animation in general in the west, away from meaning "For Kids".
Lenlo
Im not sure sure about that Anon, look at the Steven Universe and MLP fanbases.
Anonymous840067
Aidan, that isn't true... Anime has a 'special' name because it's fan base is a lot more fanatical than the cartoon fan base.
AidanAK47
Though I think the whole "Its not for kids" is the main push. Looking at my anime collection the majority is rated 15 with a few 12s. It's like the way you have Young Adult and mature, Comic books and graphic novels, or Visual novels and Eroge. They are essentially the same thing but appeal to different audiences.
AidanAK47
Though I think what really pushes this argument is that the term anime at least has a badge of honor. You don't see people demanding a show to be called a cartoon.
AidanAK47
Honestly the term anime is just a distinction to separate it from the more kiddy stuff. The term cartoon in the western world is too ingrained with the likes of Hanna Barbera or loony toons. No matter how you put it, putting Scooby Doo and Berserk in the same category is just wrong.
SuperMario
Then would you consider Korean, Chinese anime-influenced shows as anime? (I would) and those anime that aimed for Western audience (like Animatrix) as anime? (I would too)
SuperMario
But then we have something like Thunderbolt Fantasy lasy year which if I go for this defination (style) then it isn't anime at all, yet I would categorize it as anime
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