Posted by psgels on 12 September 2009 with categories: Tokyo Magnitude 8.0



Oh my god. This episode was just… incredible. It’s because of episodes like this that I still remain a fan of anime, even after watching hundreds of series. It’s series as this one that just keep me coming back, and make it all worth it.

The way this episode played out… it just allowed for the best way to show Mirai coming to understand that her brother is actually dead. We knew this for a few episodes by now, so it wasn’t the revelation or shock of his death that made this episode so powerful, but instead it was just Mirai’s character who carried this entire episode. Yuki’s illusion started to waver when Mirai met Yuki’s best friend. I think that at first, she was unconsciously confusing the two boys with each other, and therefore didn’t see the two of them at the same time at first, but eventually she did start talking to Yuki once she got used to his friend being there.

The sad thing wasn’t just Mirai realizing the death of her brother, but rather the subtle differences between the dead Yuki and the remains of the real Yuki: the things he wrote and did when he was still alive. It was really heart-wrenching to see how Mirai unconsciously tried to fit in her image of Yuki with the things he did, still refusing to admit that he was dead.

Whether or not this is realistic, I don’t know. I’m not a psychiatrist, I can only relate to what sounds plausible to me. Still, at the same time that doesn’t mean that there’s no gray area. Anime for me has always been a combination between fiction and realism, with the more realistic, or I guess that “believable” is the better word, usually being the most enjoyable for me.

A slightly spoilerific example, but excellent to illustrate the decision of the creators to insert a not-so-realistic plot twist in this series is Porfy no Nagai Tabi. It’s in many areas similar to Tokyo Magnitude: both feature two siblings, caught up in an earthquake, both feature a lot of realism, both involve travelling to get back to a family member you’ve been torn apart from, and both have females who were left with mental illnesses after the quake (in Porfy’s case, Mina loses all of her personality and memory).

Anyway, Porfy no Nagai Tabi was also incredibly realistic. Perhaps even more than Tokyo Magnitude because its length is nearly five times larger. However, when the final arc starts, a plot twist happens that’s in no single way realistic. There’s no way for something that convenient to happen. Does it ruin the anime, however? No. Instead, it really allowed the characters to get the best out of their development. With Tokyo Magnitude it’s the same: sure, we may not often see perfectly realistic illusions of our dead ones around us. But does that make this series any less incredible? For me, it absolutely doesn’t!
Rating: **** (Fantastic)

72 Responses

  1. fireryone says:

    Amazing…
    They where able to make it heart wrenching even though you knew what was happening fro the last few episodes.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Fantastic? This episode was the one where the series jumped the shark. The creators just crossed the thin line that separates the moving from the pathetic (in the worst possible sense).
    Did they really need a whole episode to state the obvious? What a waste. This series was seriously good up until now. It had what a lot of show don’t even dare approach – subtlety. Now it’s just gone to shit. My intelligence really felt insulted from the episode. I’m sorry to say this, psgels, but if you can’t see the obvious, glaring flaws in this episode, I have to start questioning your tastes.

  3. psgels psgels says:

    It’s good that you question my tastes, but I can’t really figure out your logic. I mean, what were you expecting? For Yuki to suddenly pop up and claim that he was alive again? I mean, I think everybody knew at this point that Yuki was dead. The thing that I really liked about this episode was that it slowly played out and let Mirai realize that she was living in a dream. “State the obvious”? For Mirai it certainly wasn’t.

  4. Anonymous says:

    “What you were expecting?”
    I was expecting subtlety, not to have Yuuki just plain out state for the dumb audiences that he’s dead.
    But I guess you’re right, I couldn’t expect anything else, and the creators dug themself into an hole with this choice of representing Yuuki’s death. It goes to show this “Sixth Sense” thing doesnt really work with a series, where after you see an episode you get a whole week to think about and discuss it with other people.

  5. Perrin4869 says:

    I was kind of expecting to watch Mirai speaking to the void, and then someone would snap her out of her hallucinations, but this worked just as well! I wonder how the finale is going to go, but it’s almost certain right now that this anime will not be forgotten anytime soon.

  6. AlexS says:

    I guess the point of this episode was not so much about Mirai realizing the death of her brother, but her understanding of who her brother really was, as an individual, instead of projecting on him the usual family roles (the annoying bratty brother).

    She just came to fully grasp the person she has just lost.

    This is by far my favorite series of this season, let’s just hope that the final provides a satisfactory closure.

  7. Reiter says:

    It was a bittersweet episode, and I do agree to a point with both sides that there is a bit of cheating going on as far as Mirai hallucinating her brother (the series was very realistic up until this part, even the robots seemed plausible but this, I don’t know), but at the same time you can feel the confusion and anguish from Mirai’s character when she finally realizes the truth. I hadn’t considered that she was projecting Yuki on to his friend; that seemed very possible. In the end, they did sacrifice some realism to explore Mirai’s character and I did like how she came to grips with all the little reminders of her brother’s life and the person she just lost. It’s far from perfect but it was emotional to watch just the same.

  8. Denizen says:

    Interesting point you made about Itsuki and Mayoi’s brothers – with another boy around, her illusion wavered because that space was already being filled by another similar personality.

    I really have to applaud this anime for still remaining thorough even when dealing with such a flexible concept.

  9. watashi says:

    I liked the episode. It was very sad. Episodes 2-3, 9-10 have been my favorites because of the emotional aspects. I would say Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 to be the next (or the first) 21st century anime classic!

  10. supertauren says:

    i still don’t really get how he died, he just kind of collapsed and died..?

  11. Odderkid says:

    I thought this episode was amazing. I mean, I wasn’t getting all emotional once Mirai finally realized what had happened to Yuuki because to the audience, it was sort of obvious after a time. But then Yuuki started talking and…gaaah. I was bawling. :( Yumiko Kobayashi is amazing in this role. Yuuki’s voice is so freaking awesome! >.

  12. psgels psgels says:

    Supertauren: He died from “Crush Syndrome”, which can occur when people have been crushed by a heavy weight for a long time. Remember how Mirai found Yuki under that building in the second episode? That’s why he died.

  13. Perrin4869 says:

    I think that the part about confusing the two boys is wrong though. Yuuki disappeared not only when Mirai was around his friend, but also when she met her own friend from school. It was rather like the creators were dead set on having “Yuuki” tell Mirai that he’s dead by himself. Which worked great, although it took some more of the realism of this series, I guess.

    @Odderkid: The voice actress of Yuuki certainly is one of the highlights of the anime, it’s a job wonderfully done.

  14. Meep says:

    I also loved this episode. Very powerful indeed. I was watching it with someone, so I had to hold the tears back lol..but I for sure would have cried a little if by myself. And yeah Yuuki’s voice is so awesome.

  15. namaiki says:

    Crap.. I just read a huge spoiler and all of the comments about it..

  16. Ves says:

    Some of you observant watchers might not realise, not everyone reads comments online after watching every episode or is quick enough to catch on. I simply attributed Mari’s apprehensiveness to her worry over her family. I can safely say, the impact is really big if you’ve been watching the past few episodes hazily.

    Surprisingly, it was her “first experience” (being in a dark corridor with Yuuki’s body) that was real, and the surgery a fake. He probably died because he kept it to himself and didn’t get treated in time… poor thing.

  17. reverse says:

    mmmnnn the same “fantastic” ranting like last episode. yeah it true both episode are in a similar level. unless you exaggerate or those emotional stuff really hit you, and somehow it cloud your ranting/judgment, I don’t see this couple of episode being “fantastic”.
    well, at less you being consistent, that the only positive side I could see

    “Crush Syndrome” are you sure psgels
    based on the Yuuki Symptoms it look like a mere Dehydration to me

  18. Mike says:

    @reverse

    one of the episode “preview” at the end mentioned Crush Syndrome, so that’s what that’s from.

    Otherwise, the death certificate that Mirai was looking at states external injury – brain hemorrhage

  19. Zodiac Casino says:

    Great episode! I only wish people could enjoy the show for what it is, rather than nitpick the fine details :(

    Besides, isn’t the mark of a good series one that you can really connect with emotionally? -I- think so.

  20. Snowolf says:

    I agree with Zodiac- you shouldn’t nitpick the details and criticize them, but simply accept them for what they are. I loved the subtlety in this episode, as Mirai finally realizes slowly that her illusion is crashing down. And the face at teh end of the episode? Classic. Perfect, and it totally crushed me to tears. This show certainly, by far passes by the others in it’s outstanding, heartwrenching emotional scenes and in portraying what could really happen when disaster strikes unexpectedly. I wonder what Mirai will do now…

    I have to say though, that this show really has grown on me. When I watched the first episode I thought it’d be about a young girl complaining about earthquakes, but it’s totally surpassed all of my expectations and has grown into a fully fledged adult-themed anime that’s really precious and is amazing. Let’s just hope it stays that way till the end.

  21. reverse says:

    why not criticize it, you guy obviously got caught up in emotional web. to even make a fair judgment
    it not like I being mean to this show.

  22. SeriousPerson says:

    I think this whole episode just shows plainly how weak the whole Mirai delusion thing was, because they probably could have written it out and this would have been rather dramatic. The classroom scene was a really good opportunity to have Mirai in a moment where she could really reflect on Yuuki’s death, without distraction, and properly mourn. Instead we get this whole contrived, stretched-out back-and-forth with Yuuki appearing every time Mirai was alone that just came off as really awkward.

    You guys realize that delusions don’t work that way, right? I mean imaginary Yuuki knew information Mirai wasn’t aware of, that is just fucking ridiculous. TM 8.0 was supposed to be a realistic look at the aftermath of monstrously deadly earthquake and while mental problems with survivors is a real issue, the ”Yuuki” thing went over the top.

  23. Frost says:

    Ill have to agree with Anonymous (lol), although he was too harsh, but its how I felt watching this episode: dumb

    We knew he was dead since episode 8, which by the way was executed perfectly, because as he pointed out, it was SUBTLE… but this.. is just unecessary

    Its like that really great joke with a crappy punchline that ruins the whole thing

  24. Sywen says:

    exaggerated? I think not. How old is that girl? she lost her brother at a time where she is alone, she has no idea where her parents are, or even if they are alive. the only person she could rely on has her thoughts more at her own daughter then at Mirai. She effectively had no one to confide to or to rely on for days after her brother died.

    so i really don’t think its much exagerated. any kid would be seriously fucked up by that.

  25. Sywen says:

    note: and i am not even starting on post traumatic stress..

  26. Mayo says:

    Can we pinpoint an exact time or episode then when Mirai’s repressed memory of Yuuki’s death actually occured? I just wonder how far back it had been. I assumed it was sometime after episode 8, when Yuuki fell ill, and instead of him actually recovering, he had actually died. But if it is crush syndrome, then I guess it could have been even earlier in the series. And that’s just disturbing. It’s a wonder to me why Mari allowed Mirai to go home by herself in episode 9, but it’s understandble given that she didn’t want to be separated from her now located daugher. But I can’t help picturing that for two episodes at least, Mirai was actually talking to no one, experiencing some sort of psychotic break, and Mari, very guiltily, allowed it go on as long as it did, help carry the illusion along, perhaps knowing that Mirai wouldn’t have the will to go back home without the belief that Yuuki was still around.

    This episode definitely impressed. I’m usually a big fan of (pardon my french) mindfuck episodes. I agree with psgels that the episode wasn’t so much about discovering that Yuuki was dead (it was already implied), but learning about who he was prior to the earthquake, because Mirai never really dished out much of an effort, selfishly preoccupied with all her petty, “woe-is-me” teenage problems. As an older sibiling, I found that portrayed realistically. Geez, the part about the odaiba bridge and how she wanted to spend more time with Yuuki for the rest of the summer had me going. As usual, important realizations like that come too damn late and that’s as realistic as it gets. You don’t what you have have until it’s gone.

  27. dickens says:

    @ Sywen

    No, it’s exaggerated. Healthy people do not start seeing consistent, unyielding multisensory hallucinations of dead people, that is something that happens in movies. Sibling bereavement is a tough issue which affects people harshly. However, the furthest that normal people go is RARELY having BRIEF visions. Not seeing the walking talking reincarnation of your sibling. That is pure exaggeration.

    Which is my beef with this show. The first half was realistic and grounded in a sense of believability. This was like watching a real group of people go through the effects of an earthquake. It was realistic, not uber-dramatic with people screaming and jumping out of the way of debris.

    And then now in this half of the anime, the writers suddenly go down the cliched trope route with kids falling down and dying, their sisters seeing their ghosts, I can’t even count how many times they pulled the “they’re did – oh wait they’re alive!” cliche.

    And then in this episode 10, with Yuuki disappearing and reappearing every five minutes to wind down to the oh-so-subtle revelation, god it all is so manipulative. What happened to that down-to-earth series this started off as? And what’s with that stupid message at the beginning that says “Tokyo Magnitude strives for a sense of realism”. Right….it’s just another cliched B-movie style story…

  28. otakubaka says:

    Woah big spoiler!! i stopped at like episode 3 because it was really boring. But after reading this, I might just have to catch up!

  29. Todd says:

    bashing everything seems to be the hip thing to do nowadays…

  30. m says:

    I don’t think the model for this show was ever realistic given the amount of destruction visited upon such a densely populated city. There are relatively few refugees. We see none of the environmental damage of collapsed structures, industrial fires, or broken gas and sewage lines. Where is the spread of disease among the refugees living without proper sanitation? Why does the only break down in the social compact take the form of less shoving than you get on a busy train?
    Then of course our characters just happen to be next to every building that is going to collapse days after the earthquake. The survivors should be putting up signs telling them not come near, because they can’t deal with the Main Character Aftershocks.

    Compared to the normal anime, this is pretty believable. I think of it like I did its Noitamina sibling Eden of the East: an animated drama depicted in a near-future world built upon a lot of simplifying assumptions to maintain the dramatic formula. I don’t take the prologue of every episode any more seriously than would the claims of a made for television dramatization of “true events.”

    I look at the quality of the story in terms of how much sense it makes given the characters and the world they have constructed. Otherwise I would have stopped watching in the middle of the second episode, and never would have gotten to the exaggerated robots and the hallucinations.

  31. Mappy says:

    I kinda saw this as Mira’s subconscious finally having to drag her, kicking and screaming, to the reality of Yuuki’s death, because by this stage she had to have been consciously willing the illusion to continue. But it does occasionally bust the willing suspension of disbelief, which has been a weakness of this part of TM8’s plotting. Not that good when you’re dealing with something that purports to be as realistic a dramatic portrayal of such an earthquake and its aftermath.

    But then, most of those who criticise the show for these things seem to be part of the “dropped this show before episode 1” brigade, anyway.

  32. Mayo says:

    I mean if we’re really going to criticize the anime for being realistic, then the anime’s crap right around the second episode. It’s hard to believe that Mirai and Yuuki managed to dodge nearly every falling obstacle/projectile that came their way, on the boat ride from Odaiba to the fall of the Tokyo tower. Hell, it might even be considered cheap that Yuuki hadn’t even demonstrated any physical signs of Crush Syndrome until episode 8, that the audience hadn’t received any increasing visual cues that he was at least starting to feel the effects of having a considerable amount of weight fall on him for a period of time.

    The anime “strives” for a sense of realism, but it doesn’t promise reality. Right from the get go it says it’s a “work of fiction,” and that “circumstances may be different from the real thing.” Artisitic liberties have to be taken, if only to serve to drive an important point home with the right, desired amount of emotional impact which is clearly what the show was trying to do for Yuuki’s death. It’s been done over and over with books and movies. However, I can understand how it can be seen as contrived, emotionally manipulative, trite, even pseudo-intelligent. I’m actually wondering how it would have gone if they just had Mirai accept Yuuki’s death right from the get go. Less dramatic maybe? But more poignant and emotionally shattering without all the unnecessary mental theatrics? Probably.

    But I agree with Reiter’s point that this route was taken to create a touching and affecting (touching and affecting in my opinion anyway) way for Mirai to really learn about and reflect on the little brother she’d taken for granted (the imagined-Yuuki had lead her to his classroom), and then after all that, to finally, truly say goodbye. But to each their own, respectfully.

  33. dickens says:

    @Mappy

    Take a look at the Animesuki boards. Nearly all of the people criticising the show were its biggest fans prior to episode 7 or so. And it’s the people who were bored after episode 1 who are suddenly saying “wow! I love this show now” after the cliches piled on.

    @Todd

    meaningless generalizations that add nothing to a discussion seem to be the hip thing to do nowadays…

  34. Howling-kun says:

    BONES ruins the plot’s progression once again. Good job destroying the subtlety of it all.
    Dropped from possible Top 5 to barely Top 10 of the year for me.
    What now? Reset ending? HAR HAR HAR

  35. AKI says:

    Although I agree that the majority of the scenes here are unnecessary, this episode is a fairly good watch, cried a bit at the end. We can’t blame Mirai for the hallucinations (or the writers who thought of the idea). Who among you lost a brother/sister at ten something? Did you really know what a kid’s going through especially after a traumatic experience. I don’t, that’s why I just shut up and watch and let my emotions decide.

  36. tracy says:

    Yuuki both seems like Mirai’s delusion but also his “actions” in her delusion make me think he is almost ghost-like, because he is often leading her/pushing her to do things (often the right thing.)

    For instance, Yuki says “let’s keep searching for Hina” and pushes her to do that, even after Mari is sitting crestfallen by those unknown bodies. Yuki runs ahead to the school in ep.10, and by chasing him, Mirai (and Itsuki) come upon Yuki’s things and she learns more about him. And then even in the end, he instructs her to go after Itsuki into the house, and even as the aftershock is happening, it’s where he’s crouching that guides her and Itsuki to a safe place when the house falls apart.

    Which made me wonder if Yuki is a ghost that only she can see, or her subconscious is trying to get her to do something, and the voice is through the vision of Yuki. (And then in the end, it’s Yuki- a ghost or her subconscious- that has finally reached a point to bring in the truth that Yuki is dead.)

  37. Sywen says:

    @ Dickens

    thats my point, she isn’t even close to “healthy”. I urge you to read up on (complex)post traumatic stress disorders, survivors guilt, emotional dysregulations and such. And don’t forget: It’s a child, and still doesn’t recieve any mental help at all.

  38. Rinyal says:

    I think I was one of the few people obvious to all the signs that Yuuki was dead till this episode started. lol Got too absorbed in the saw kinda didn’t notice it at all. Basically cried or teared up for this show more than half of the episodes. XD; Or maybe I subconsciously didn’t want to accept it like Mirai. I know as soon as the episode started I was like “Why does Yuuki have his book bag? I though I saw Mari holding onto it the last ep.?…” That’s why I think Yuuki’s death hit me so hard as I was starting to piece it with Mirai until it was finally blurted out at the end. It was an extremely amazing episode though.

  39. dickens says:

    @ Sywen

    No, she’s healthy. When I say healthy I don’t mean “currently happy” or “not in shock”. It means she doesn’t have a prior history of being a nutcase, which is what would be necessary for her sudden descent into straitjacket lunacy to be believable.

    I don’t need to read up on anything, I study this stuff full-time. Normal people do NOT see ghosts of their dead siblings. Post-traumatic stress disorder can manifest in hallucinations or visions, but never constant multisensory delusions – aka walking talking ghosts.

    It’s the same problem as with CSI and Law and Order – people are conditioned to thinking that detective work is really that perfect. Similarly, Hollywood movies have conditioned people to think that being stressed or going through a traumatic effect can make everyone walk and talk with ghosts and go insane. It just doesn’t happen to normal people. If Mirai had a history of mental disorder, okay, it’s believable.

  40. psgels psgels says:

    Reading this discussion, I think that the biggest mistake the creators made is putting that disclaimer on front. Not only is it going to make people more sceptical than usual due to these expectations, but doesn’t it also rather sound somewhat pretentious? I really enjoyed this series, but I really wonder why the creators didn’t let the viewers themselves decide whether or not it’s realistic.

  41. juu says:

    I thought showing Yuki all the time was mostly a mean to emphasize Mirai’s denial of Yuki’s death. I mean they could have shown Mirai talking to the air but by animating him they could show what Mirai imagined Yuki would do… like when he smiles or something… I, at least, don’t know how the creators should have shown Mirai imagining Yuki to smile in a moment without animating it.

    even if it was more realistic if she just talked to the air or something…

  42. AlexS says:

    This is a recap of the debate on realism and suspension of disbelief we had a few weeks ago, with the same inconclusive results.

    The disclaimer is ambitious, but not preposterous: It’s quite obvious that the research focused on aspects surrounding a massive earthquake (geophysical, logistic, humanitarian), and not an impartial filming of the actors, a kind of reality show during an earth quake.

    As mentioned in the disclaimer, this is not a documentary, it’s a work of fiction. This implies that there will be storytelling, and artifacts associated to the storytelling techniques, as a applied to anime. To be radically realistic, there should be no pictures of dreams of people (no mind’s view), and I’m sure some people would even take issue with flash backs. What people find acceptable will differ according to their tastes.

    For instance, nobody seems to have an issue that the events surrounding the characters are obviously designed to showcase in an extensive way the events surrounding an earthquake. Is this realistic? Of course not, it’s a common and accepted artifact.

    What people seem to have huge problems with is the use of images to portrait the subjective reality of a character. How do you render visually the reality of a character when it differs from the consensus reality? I think there are two options: either you show the impact of the altered reality on the behavior of the character, or you show the reality as perceived by the character, in a way that is meaningful for anime.

    If we take the scenes of Yuuki as face value, I also think they are not realistic. If Mirai was only suffering from hallucinations, her behavior would not make any sense. She would just be creeped out, pick out inconsistencies, and try to find whether the hallucinations are real or not.

    Now if we start with the idea that Mirai is in denial, it’s a very different matter. She’s not having hallucinations (or then rather brief). She’s actively denying reality, and trying to cover it up. How do you portrait that in anime?

    You can take the classical objective view, and let Mirai mutter by herself alone in the streets (which is not such a rare sight, in big towns). The other option, enabled by anime, is to portray this altered reality. Which does not mean that what we see corresponds to what the visual field of the character captures, but the rationalizations that the brain produces to maintain its course.

    We are seeing rationalizations, not hallucinations. Rationalizations are not pictures, but they can be turned into pictures, in a visual medium such as anime.

    Anyone with a shred of experience in psychology knows that the brain rationalizes a good deal of what we consider reality, and that this rationalization can sometimes go very wrong. Anime allows you to easily describe that rationalization, which is interesting.

    At the end of the day, denial exists, and that’s enough for me (but does not need to be enough for others). The fact that the anime tries to make us experience this denial from the subjective view of Mirai is an interesting experiment, and if they can also use it to further develop the characters, why not?

  43. Denizen says:

    The sort of people who complain about Yuuki’s death and delusions “being drawn out” are the sort of people with the inability to look deeper. Yes it was a central theme some of the time, but there were other points of focus the whole time – still there to develop the characters and the earthquake setting. Whether it was Mari’s personality, her family, Mirai’s memories of her brother, how she met her friends again, etc. It was still several things at once, not a drawn-out melodrama until the final breaking point.

  44. Tiago Sá says:

    As I said before, I’m starting to dislike the series. Not that it’s bad per se, it’s just that it isn’t clear on what it’s trying to be. Is it drama, is it tragedy, is it adventure?

    Before, in the first episodes, we knew that anything could happen at any moment. In fact, anything DID happen at any moment, and, as silly as that is, as implausible as it presents itself, it works well with well thought out characters and setting. This episode, however, just extrapolates that uncertainty the spectator feels, the uncertainty the series gives off. You don’t know what’s what, you don’t know what to expect, and that’s not fun to watch, for me. At all.

    It can still be pretty good, although the ending will make or break it, basically.

    Besides, there is absolutely no meaning in this exercise of illusion. There’s absolutely no advantage in trying to trick the spectator into having the same illusion Mirai had. It would be much more powerful to tell the spectator right away she was having an illusion and whatnot. Because in the cases of those who, like me, didn’t get it at first, they loose all the goodness and the subtlety of what Mari said, and how people reacted (not) to Yuuki. I ended up having to rewatch the episodes… And I did miss a lot on my first watches, as I saw then.

    As I said, no point at all.

  45. Mayo says:

    Lol, psgels is right about that bloody disclaimer. They kind of dug themselves into a little bit of a hole.

    Completely agree with what a few of the posters above me said. If we stop seeing the-not-really-there Yuuki as an actual hallucination, but more of a plot device or a vehicle to illustrate Mirai’s active denial of his death, then it works. How else could you portray something like that in a visual medium? And effectively? The beauty of what the show did was that for me it felt like I was right there with Mirai in her persistent, unhealthy but natural refusal to accept his death. We all knew he was dead, but the fact that Mirai kept entertaining this reality where he was still alive and smiling and happy made us hope and cling to that image of him like she did even though there were clear signs that told us he was no longer there. Denial and illusions work when you want so desperately to believe them, and despite the glaringly obvious, as a viewer I couldn’t help but trick myself like Mirai did even for just a scene or two. Which made that last scene absolutely stunning in its finality. Yuuki’s dead and gone. There’s no denying it, it was time to stop denying it.

    Honestly can’t wait to see how they’re going to end this awesome show!

  46. m says:

    The delusions of Yuuki aren’t pointless. They are there to exaggerate the emotional impact on the viewer, both in providing ambiguity over the ultimate outcome (letting the audience experience its own sense of denial), and increasing the audience’s investment in the character and Mirai’s sense of loss when the illusion ends. It also motivates a few of the scenes and rationalizes Mirai’s personality changes. I also don’t think an audience that didn’t experience the nature of Mirai’s delusion in full would think much of a scene in which Mirai follows a little boy into a ruined building that nearly kills him. I suspect they would hate that “crazy bitch” with the intensity of a thousand stars, because her delusions would be too far removed from the audience’s own experience to empathize with her. It is a cruel bit of knife-twisting they engage in doing it this way, but that’s just what happens when a character’s oneechans/minute goes critical.

    It may not work for you, but it’s still a useful bit of dramatic flourish. They could have gone in a different direction for sure, and from the very beginning they could have left out all of the dramatic embellishments that they used to provide conflict, but the show may have been boring as a result.

    However I am certainly not trying to argue you into liking the progression of the story. I don’t like a lot of anime writing myself, to the extent that I often wonder why anyone would waste the enormous number of man-hours it takes to compose even 20 minutes of animation without first filling in giant plot holes and making sure there’s a beginning middle and end to the story.

  47. PL says:

    From the DSM IV, the diagnostic standard used by all psychiatrists in the US:
    Brief Psychotic Disorder
    Category
    Psychotic Disorders
    Etiology
    The cause of this disorder is typically an extremely stressful event or trauma.
    Symptoms
    Presence of psychotic symptoms (delusions, hallucinations, disorganized speech, and/or disorganized behavior) which lasts at least one day but no more than one month.
    Treatment
    Supportive therapy or interpersonal relationships and at times medication.
    Prognosis
    Very good. By definition, the disorder will resolve itself within one month. If the symptoms last more than one month, the diagnosis needs to be reconsidered as does prognosis.

    …While this disease is uncommon, it certainly isn’t beyond belief for a young girl whose lived through extreme trauma for an extended period of time to experience it. And, no prior history of mental illness is required, this can happen to anyone.

  48. Mappy says:

    I’m reminded of the 80’s UK tv series, Edge of Darkness, where Bob Peck’s character, Craven, constantly has visions of his dead daughter, including conversing and interacting with her, after seeing her murdered in front of him in the first episode. He knows she’s dead, but her phantom almost becomes a vehicle, a guide, for him as he looks into the conspiracy that lead to her killing. And she never really goes away, just fades into the background.

    In many ways, the use of Yuuki’s phantom delusion is similar in the immediate wake of his death in that he seemed to become a representation of newfound strengths in Mirai’s character, making her do things on the basis of, what amounts to, no possible prior knowledge or belief. What is different is the way in which it is portrayed. If Yuuki had been an obvious phantom, even to herself, that she would converse with as a kind of protective denial because events have spiraled far too far and far too quickly for her young mind to deal with, then we probably wouldn’t be having this argument. It seems to be the very attempt at subtlety that has caught BONES out, here, because it was ham-fisted. Which sounds a bit contrary, I know, but we’ve been discussing this for weeks, and the final revelation was a bit like opening a birthday present with transparent wrapping. We already knew what we were going to get. Just making Yuuki an element of her grief would probably have been fine, and a whole lot simpler than what they tried to do. And would probably have given masonry an extra opportunity to drop on her. My aforementioned fears that we might get an “it’s all a dream” finale still holds true, right now, considering anime studios love of trolling.

  49. Tiago Sá says:

    We all knew he was dead

    No we didn’t… -_- “We” (not including myself, mind you) guess he was dead, but there’s a clear intention of the series of not confirming it straight away.

    Yuuki’s dead and gone. There’s no denying it, it was time to stop denying it.

    From the plot’s standpoint, seeing as it’s all made of fantasy and ghosts, he’s not actually gone. She talks with the ghost, at least, and he’s still an active character, even if he’s not alive. Remember: anime, most of the time, don’t depict reality as it is.

    They are there to exaggerate the emotional impact on the viewer, both in providing ambiguity over the ultimate outcome (letting the audience experience its own sense of denial)

    That’s my point. There’s no denial at all! You either guess he’s dead and it’s all an hallucination, and then the series shows you all those hints and you KNOW he’s dead (in which case there’s no denial for the audience), or you take what the series shows you as the truth and believe it was all a dream (because it actually was, the first death scene, in a sense) and he’s alive because he’s right there! In which case there’s no denial because you have no clue whatsoever and the series doesn’t go out of its way, as it should, to tell the unsuspecting viewer that not all that’s shown on screen is true, and that, NOW, we’re seeing things from Mirai’s point of view, which was certainly not the case in the previous episodes. It’s a literally technique that has to be used with coherence and care, because, for all means and purposes, the narrator of Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 totally changed stances from ep 8 onward. By narrator I mean the cinematografic proverbial narrator, not the de facto narrator, which, I think, is non-existent, or mute, at best.

    and increasing the audience’s investment in the character and Mirai’s sense of loss when the illusion ends.

    Indeed, but that totally backfires, as the sense of loss of those who figured yuuki died is attenuated by the fact that he keeps appearing on screen and actively interacting with Mirai, and the sense of loss of those who DIDN’T figure it out is attenuated too because they figure it all out during ep 10, in which case the previous two episodes work retroactively to attenuate the meta-pain of loss…

    It also motivates a few of the scenes and rationalizes Mirai’s personality changes.

    Oh, totally, and in that point it works flawlessly, and it completely saves the plot maneuver, really. I believe it is very enjoyable for those who figure it out from the beginning, but for those who don’t, those scenes can only be enjoyed in hindsight (which works only to a degree) or by rewatching the previous eps. = not good practice, because you’re effectively leaving a portion of your watchers off the party.

    I suspect they would hate that “crazy bitch” with the intensity of a thousand stars, because her delusions would be too far removed from the audience’s own experience to empathize with her.

    If that were the case, they wouldn’t have provided the hints to begin with. I believe you’re opposing what they have done with a very bad way of clearing showing it’s an illusion…

    the show may have been boring as a result

    Plot twists and suspense doesn’t make a show more or less boring, just as explosions don’t make a show more or less exciting. They may work for some people, though.

    I mean, TM8.0 is pretty boring all in all… Hopefully it won’t turn into yet another no-climax-no-point-no-meaning BS that only entertains because… Well, TM8.0 certainly entertains, and it’s very well done, as an anime, no doubt about that. But the final ep will, in my view, make or break the series, in terms of overall plotline.

    However I am certainly not trying to argue you into liking the progression of the story. I don’t like a lot of anime writing myself, to the extent that I often wonder why anyone would waste the enormous number of man-hours it takes to compose even 20 minutes of animation without first filling in giant plot holes and making sure there’s a beginning middle and end to the story.

    Hihi, it’s not like TM8.0 has many plotholes. In fact, I can’t see any at all :P I have not made my mind yet about the plot. It’s not that I don’t like it already, otherwise I wouldn’t watch the final ep. It’s just that I can’t see many ways of making the final ep wrap it all up into an epic piece of awesomeness. They may pull if off, of course. In terms of how much I like the story progression, that is.

  50. Keith says:

    I can understand the arguments and debates going on about the realism of this show. However, realism isn’t really what I expected from this after about the second episode. I mean, is it realistic for our protagonists to narrowly avoid being crushed by EVERY piece of loose/falling debris and crumbling buildings, even days after the initial destruction has occurred? It’s not, so I accepted that and moved on, because the show had more to offer.

    What I don’t like about this show is how dragged out the Yuuki hallucinations/rationalizations got. What could have been a powerful episode became 20 minutes of Mirai looking for Yuuki after he disappears every other minute. It didn’t build up to Mirai’s eventual realization that he was dead at ALL.

    Honestly, the parts that I liked most about Yuuki’s death were other people’s reactions to Mirai. Like how Mari kept a distance from her. THAT was powerful. It was pure body language that told the story for us and made us think a bit.

    All this episode was was hide and go seek with a hallucination.

  51. dickens says:

    @PL

    I don’t know how many times this has to be repeated, but walk into a psychology class and ask for the common definition of delusion or hallucination. If you tell them you think it means walking and talking with the ghost of your dead sibling for hours and hours, they will laugh at you.

    You can say you like this trope, but it’s just movie cliche, not believable, get over it.

  52. Solaris says:

    Wow, how many comments to state the obvious: this anime is realistic. Or maybe not? I’d like to make the same question nobody answered (except one guy) some time ago:
    what do you really think realism mean?

    Hint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism_(arts)

    When you read a novel or watch a movie you’re taking a trip in someone’s immagination. The world depicted is fantastic and has its own rules. A realistic world tend to mimic a real world’s rules, but it’s a fantasy creation itself. Many events are put there with art to let the plot advance, but aren’t really realistic turns of events. Some of these plot devices may look less realistic, but then it’s our turn to trust enough the writer avoiding judgement and taking that particular event as it is. That’s called suspension of disbelief. It’s a matter on how much we want to belive the plot is realistic, more than how much the plot is actually realistic.

    Natural laws are always presented as real in a realistic world, but are bent whenever the plot needed them to be bent.
    You said Mirai delusions aren’t that realistic. Well maybe that’s true, but try to bend a little your suspended disbelief. That reaction is functinal to the plot and enough realistic to be considered genuine. Three full episodes past on this delusion may be too many, but were so useful to flesh out the changes in Mirai’s attitude and other’s char attitude toward her. It was not a waste, after all. There was no need for exagerated realism, but to a convenient plot device to concentrate on Mirai’s intimate world and feeling. Think about it.

  53. PL says:

    I’ve done graduate work in psychology. A delusion is a hallucination you believe to be real, and is often multi-sensory. I think your the one who needs to quit thinking the General Psychology course you took for an elective makes you a know-it-all.

  54. reverse says:

    @ dickens just like you says it just a movie cliche
    how could someone have a consistent hallucination, just beyond me.

    I don’t really care that much whatever it real or not. just how it being execute, I would say it wasn’t particularly good. yuuki dead being so cheap , they could handle it better

  55. Anon says:

    @Solaris

    If I suspend my disbelief far enough, everything that has happened so far to Mirai is just a dream. The earthquake never happened.

    You see, you’re right in that for suspension of disbelief to work, the work of fiction must stay consistent with its own self-imposed rules.

    And as far as I’m concerned, TM8 has totally wrecked its own premise of “realism”. Which totally destroys my ability to suspend disbelief.

    As someone else said above, I probably wouldn’t have minded Yuuki being a projection of Mirai’s denial — IF, and ONLY IF, the creators hadn’t been so damned ham-fisted and clumsy in its execution. And no, this is not because of my inability to “look deeper”, but an honest reaction. I feel cheated, and insulted, by the producers.

  56. PL says:

    I’m sorry it was rude how I said that, but I think you are a little too sold on your own ideas about what are and are not hallucinations. I’ve worked with many people who experienced extremely vivid hallucinations and delusions, and studied this subject matter pretty thoroughly. The type of hallucination/delusion Mirai was having are rare for a non-schizoid person, but not out of the real of possibility given the stressors she’s been exposed to.

  57. Solaris says:

    I admit that plot device bends a lot the self imposed realism, but, come on, there are other animes that really did much worse than this. The idea of Mirai going insane and Yuuki KO is quite daring, if you let me say that. Real few anime play with its main char this way and aren’t afraid of killing them. I repeat that this delusion was maybe forced and way too long, but was useful in the very end to the plot advance, so let’s take a look on how the story finishes and try to enjoy the show to the end.

  58. Anon says:

    @Solaris

    Comparing TM8, the way I currently see it, with “worse” anime out there doesn’t make it any less awful to me, you know. In fact, it’s a bit sad to even have to do that.

    It’s not as though anime dealing with hallucinations and paranoia don’t exist. There’s Perfect Blue, for example, as well as Paprika. Both of these movies make full use of animation as a medium for portraying insanity and extreme fantasy, and they happen to do it way more effectively than it was done here in TM8.

    So, please, don’t use the lame argument of how other anime has done it worse. It’s far more constructive to see how anime has made such plot devices _work_. And, TM8, in my opinion, is a a _bad_ example.

    Given that all suspension of disbelief has already been ruined for me, it’s difficult for me to even enjoy TM8 in its current form. I don’t really care either way how it ends now. I’m merely continuing for the sake of closure.

  59. AlexS says:

    Waw, it’s amazing how some people can be aggravated by TM8… In a sense, it’s a tribute to the show: they must have done something right, to elicit such an emotional investment.

    Initially, I was taken aback by this episode. Not because of Yuuki’s presence, but because there was no plot advancement. But thinking back on how I could structure this episode, I thought in the end I would not change it so much: I would have given more screen time to blanked out period between Yuuki’s admission and the time when Mirai fell asleep on the sleeping bag. In this way one would see the drama of the event, and illustrate a bit more medical operations overstretched by a disaster emergency. But they do show that time, so it’s not a fundamental change.

    It will be interesting to see how this pans out in the next episode. We (think) we know what will happen: the meeting of Mirai and parents, the agonizing about Yuuki’s fate, and the return of Yuuki’s bag, given or sent by Mari. What will be interesting is the execution, rather than the content of the episode

  60. m says:

    I don’t really know anything about the prevalence visual hallucinations, nor how frequently they occur in people as a result of trauma rather than persistent mental disease. The extent of my experience with delusional behavior doesn’t include visual hallucinations.

    Shortly after my older sister’s husband died she appeared at my home one day. I didn’t pay any attention to this, even though it was unusual. I continued at the task I was engaged in when she arrived and she proceeded to another room. After about ten minutes she came running back to me and said something that seemed incoherent about being mentioned on the radio. For a moment I thought she had actually committed some crime severe enough that it would be mentioned on the radio. Alerted by the prospect that she had done something terrible, I went along with her to listen to the radio, which it turned out had not been tuned to any station’s frequency. She then began to elaborate and said that they had been talking about her and her dead husband on the radio. Relieved that she had not run someone down or something on her way to my home, it crossed my mind that she was playing some kind of cruel prank on me. I already had a well-known antipathy for her, and it was only the nature of her loss that had kept me from expelling her when she arrived, so I just left her to the radio and returned to my previous endeavors hoping that she would leave of her own accord. Then after a period of maybe a dozen minutes she came to me again and started telling me about more things they had been saying about her dead husband on the radio, and at this point my sympathy toward her predicament was running thin. Still it is surprisingly difficult to dispense with empathy, so I simply told her that I was busy and that she must be mistaken. She then return to the other room to listen to the radio further. After thinking about the issue further I considered the possibility that she wasn’t acting this way for attention, but had simply lost her mind. I decided to observe her behavior without her knowledge, and stood outside the door to the room she was in and listened to her as she talked to the radio that was simply emitting static. This naturally led me to contact some other family members, one of whom arranged for her to be screened, and ultimately resulted in her spending a week in a mental hospital. At one point she was entirely convinced that she could hear the blades of the fan at the mental hospital talking about her dead husband.

    After she was released she went on with her life, and as far as I know has never had any similar experiences.

  61. dickens says:

    @ PL

    I don’t want to get into the “hay my credentials are better than yours thus my opinion is right” e-peen war, but I have nothing to add more than my previous post. Hallucinations caused by traumatic events are nowhere near interacting with the walking talking ghost of your dead brother for hours. The former happens, the latter doesn’t except in people with history of mental illness. People who watch too many movies are conditioned to think it’s believable.

    To all others, I’m not saying that I hate TM8 just because it’s not 100% realistic to the tee.

    I don’t like it personally because I feel like the sudden descent into tropeism and cliche (for example, how many times has the show pulled the “they’re dead! Oh wait, they’re alive!” schtick now? three times?) clashes too greatly with the relatively down-to-earth portrayal of disaster aftermath in the first half. Jarring changes in a show end up feeling artificial and reduce my emotional attachment a story, because it feels too much like the work of writers.

    That’s all there is to my opinion.

    @AlexS – The 9/11 bombers aggravated a lot of people too, so I guess they did something right.

    Okay, I’m not actually comparing TM8 to terrorism, but the reason that TM8 aggravates a lot of people, espeially on Animesuki forum, is that a lot of us were HUGE fans of the show in the first half. It was my favourite show of the summer season until a few episodes ago. When you love a show and then it does something you hate, of course it aggravates you. A lot more than just an average show that starts to suck.

  62. AlexS says:

    @dickens
    “@AlexS – The 9/11 bombers aggravated a lot of people too, so I guess they did something right.”
    Now that’s a serious push towards Goodwin’s point. Allow me to ignore it, since I won’t discuss 9/11 with you.

    “the reason that TM8 aggravates a lot of people […] is that a lot of us were HUGE fans of the show in the first half.”
    Isn’t that what I meant? They must have done something right, for you to be a huge fan of the first half.

    What did they did right, in your opinion, that made you like the first half so much?

  63. dickens says:

    Yes, because I was seriously invoking 9/11, as the sentence which directly follows that one so obviously proves.

    And I’ve already stated what I liked about TM8. It was around when Yuuki cinematically pushed Mirai out of the way of falling Tokyo Tower debris that I had the inkling it would be going downhill.

  64. Fluca says:

    I am speechless. Seriously guys, did none of you catch the fact that Yuuki was actively leading Mirai throughout the last two episodes? I mean, he was the one that urged Mirai to keep looking for Mari’s daughter. He was the one that went on ahead searching for their family. He was the one that told Mirai to go inside his friend house in order to bring him back outside and also, Mari only moved from where she was before part of the house collapsed because she went to grab Yuuki.
    Now, that being said, it is really obvious, to me at least, that his presence was not a contrived way to show her coming to terms with his death, but, in fact, a way to show his “spirit”/”presence” looking after the ones he cared even after death.
    Does this moves the show away from realism? Perhaps, depending on what you believe in. But I’m pretty sure that the last episode will be about Mirai’s thoughts about how her brother was such a nice spirit that he managed to be there for her and his friends even when it was “impossible” for him to do so.
    In my view, this does not detract but rather add to de poignancy of the show.

  65. Fluca says:

    Oh, and also, I’m betting she will be a robot designer. ;)

  66. riddle says:

    this is an anime and a very good one. there is no need to critisice it, if you don’t like it don’t watch it simple.
    i think it was good.i have watched many animes and this is probably one of the best i have watch.
    it is possible for halluncinations like Mirai’s to happened, it happen to one of my family members. so this show followed “reality” quite well.

  67. Julian says:

    @Riddle:Yeah or dream about your loved ones who died…it’s perfectly normal to hallucinate or dream of them.

  68. Julian says:

    @Riddle:Yeah or dream about your loved ones who died…it’s perfectly normal to hallucinate or dream of them.

  69. Solaris says:

    Will you just stop arguing how Mirai’s mental illness would be normal irl or similar to some of your past experiences? That makes no sense.

    Just stick on the fact that they pictured a girl with a mental illness in this anime. It could be depicted in a more or less “realistic” way, so judge how this fact is beliveable and is related to other events in the anime universe itself.
    It is pointless to compare it to real life events.

  70. Simon says:

    Wow, this episode totally threw me. I thought something was weird in the episode when Yuki really died, but I thought it was her just worrying about it all and having bad dreams as any little kid who went through such a traumatic experience would.

    I just re-watched the last two shows and realised that Mari only ever talked to her and that she sometimes made references to Yuki but in the subtext of taking care of him, which could have been construed as taking care of his well-being or the paperwork after his death and notifying the parents of what happened.

    This episode seems to have brought a lot of discussion for the people who said they knew it all along and others who have suddenly realised what happened. This has got to be one of the best series ever.

    It is also good for knowing what to do for those of us who actually live in Sangenjaya when the overdue big one hits us!!!!

  71. Liq says:

    I only stumbled upon this blog after i finished this series…i have to admit i did not have even the slightest thought that Yuuki was dead despite the amount of clues given LOL so this episode was kinda like a surprise to me haha
    I did think it was weird at certain scenes where Mari would totally ignore Yuuki (not addressing him) or the scene where Mirai says she’s just thinking about how cool robots are but i dint really think much of it lol I guess its because i wasnt really expecting anyone of the main characters to die xD

  72. tazman0208 says:

    @ psgels: Yuuki died from a complication caused by his conccusion, probably bleeding:
    Yuuki died from cerebral bleeding after the conccusion he got when the Tokyo tower collapsed and he was hit in the head while saving his sister.
    http://www.emedicinehealth.com/concussion/page3_em.htm
    if you look at the symptoms you will see that Yuuki had most of them, delayed loss of conciousness, vomiting, loss of memory ect… Just wanted to make that clear.

    as opposed to crush syndrome that has the following symptoms:
    Compression in excess of 60 minutes
    Involvement of a large muscle mass
    Absent pulse and capillary refill return to distal limb
    Pale, clammy, cool skin
     Weak, rapid pulse
     Usually absence of pain in affected region
     Onset of shock

    Well after rewatching the 2nd episode again, it didnt look to me that Yuuki was crushed at all since that girl was protecting him when the shelf fell over them.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Lenlo
I mean, decent warrants about a 5-6. That, in theory, should be an "Average" show.
Anonymous1055365
It's a decent show. You're being overly critical.
SuperMario
In the Out of Competition slot (you think that I'm finished?), 2 films in particular that catch my interest are the Korean Lost in the Moonlight which looks like a fun and lightheart adventure, and the Norway-Poland co-production adult-oriented The Man who Knew 75 Languagues about the star-crossed love between the Queen of Romania and a titular man, I guess
SuperMario
Rounding up the Main Competition are Animal Crackers, a 3G American family film which I don't have good feeling about; Big Fish and Begonia - a Chinese indie film that divided the critics, but gathered skyhigh commercial success in its mainland China; and finally Zombillenium which sounds like an enjoyable European children film
SuperMario
From other countries, most notable films are the Loving Vincent - the first feature length hand painting; the Chinese black comedy Have a Nice Day that premiered in Berlin earlier this year; Ethel and Ernest which already gained a strong reviews from the UK; Tehran Taboo- a German production about the lives of 3 women in Iranian community, which sound exactly like my kinda of film.
SuperMario
Alright, I'm here to bring you news about the selection of this coming Annecy AKA one of the best animation festival out there. 3 of anime features: A Slient Voice, In the Corner of the World and Masaaki Yuasa's Lu over the Wall will compete for the main competition.
SuperMario
I'm a fan of thought-provoking anime (see Lain, Boogiepop Phantom) but I need to care about the story and characters first before I make an effort to dig deeper to the theme. Sagrada Reset failed on that fronts.
SuperMario
It's not really about being smart/dumb here. As a creator, they already have an advantage to know how the story and plot will play out. I don't mind this advantage because otherwise the plot will become a hot mess. But don't use that advantage as a way to widen the gap between them and the audience.
AidanAK47
Ugh...Ray Gigant was pretty much mediocre up until this point but now it;s utterly asinine. Whoever decided on this endgame needs to be fired. When you are ready to end a game, no player want a ten floor dungion with a boss on each floor coupled with a goddamn boss rush halfway. Just...fuck.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It must be worse than oremo.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I saw some pages of the eromanga sensei manga and my reaction was that I was sad that it actually existed and stated "why would you even" after looking at it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As an anime example, sekaisuru kado has lots of dialogue but it seems like it could actually be engaging.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So basically no I don't think we're dumb for not liking sagrada reset, given that myself and Mario are capable of watching genuinely smart wordy things and getting them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I can imagine watching Sagrada reset and thinking I'd rather be watching a Bergman film instead , something also with lots of dialogue and themes but actually engaging/clever and NOT pretentious or obnoxious about it.
Anonymous1054942
is it possible that you are all just dumb?
Anonymous1054269
@Mario: I like how you described it as giving a middle finger to the viewers. It's so true. Like, it tries to be intelligent and make the viewer feel stupid, but it just comes off as obnoxious/pretentious.
Lenlo
CGI remains the worst part of it, but we are getting more and more 2D art which I actually enjoy the style of
Lenlo
Its an improvement. The art is better, and maybe its because I prefer this arc, but the pacing is better as well. I gave last season a 3, but this one is more deserving of a 4 and if they can nail certain scenes coming up I may bump it to a 5.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: How's Berserk doing so far? Haven't picked up last week and this week's episodes.
Lenlo
Ground*. I hate it when I fat finger something.
Lenlo
Thats always the worst, when a story starts off promising and then someone runs it into the grouhnd
AidanAK47
@Mario, so it's still at it. To me it's like someone was given an interesting story and made it his mission to ruin it as much as possible.
SuperMario
@Aidan: it's still the same crap. I have a feeling that Sagrada Reset gives a middle finger to us viewers. The plot with development and characters that we have no way to figure out ourselves. The characters who change motive and even personality after each timeline. The main lead girl who act like a robot. I gave this show too many chance so I won't bother to spend more time watching it.
Anonymous1052767
Eromanga sensei
AidanAK47
@Mario, Oh ho, what was the dealbreaker? Just that it didn't change or did something really stupid happen?
SuperMario
Sagrada Reset (long sigh) (scratching my head) (eyes rolling). Dropped
AidanAK47
Hey you.
Konstantinos
Yeah, at this point, this season looks good.
SuperMario
Quite happy with ID-0 and Zero in particular. Zero charms me to no end that I'm still debating whether I should blog it. The trio Re:Creators, Kado, Atom still doing pretty well and the sequels MHA and Bahamut are enjoyable as expected. We have a wide range of anime offerings this season.
SuperMario
Sagrada Reset & SukaSuka I will give it another episode, at least until this current arcs over. They both have potential but Sagrada Reset tries so hard to sound smart, and SukaSuka still falls into its LN tropes which bugged the show down.
SuperMario
*no real urge
SuperMario
I've finally catch up with all other series I wanna follow this season. Alice & Zorouku will be off my list for now, Zorouko is a great character but everything else falls flat so far. I have real urge to continue Attack on Titan and Berserk so I'll wait until they're finished.
Vonter
I watched some episodes of KonoSuba yesterday, reminds me of Those Who Hunt Elves. And I suppose it might be an easy recommendation because it mainly comes down to; do you find it funny? or fun? If not, skip.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While yes its true of watching those slice of life shows week by week is better, I felt that when reading the manga for Aria it was easier to marathon by reading it rather than watching.
SuperMario
Flying witch have the same atmosphere, but it's a purely slice of life anime. I love Aria too and I agree that watching it 1 episode a time is the best way to enjoy it. Can't think of other serious anime that have those calming elements for now
Anonymous1042537
Yeah, I noticed they all have pretty different structures from one another (ACCA's political, Mushishi's naturalistic, Monster is a thriller, Rakugo's about a specific art form, 3-gatsu is ostensibly about Shogi, etc.) but I found that I found some similar calming elements in them (to different degrees of course).
Anonymous1042537
Thanks, I'll definitely check Aria out!
AidanAK47
One of the hardest shows to marathon besides Bakemonogatari. Though Bakomono gave me a headache after a few episodes whereas Aria just had me so mellow that I could drift into sleep at any second.
AidanAK47
Don't know if you could call it a sub genre as the examples you listed are all really different from each other.
Though in the vein of calming shows I think you can add the Aria series to the list. That show is so relaxing that you find yourself nodding off to it. Not out of boredom but it just has that effect on you.
Anonymous1042537
Do you guys know if there's a specific subgenre like this, or am I making it up? And are there other anime with that kind of feel. Not exactly slice of life, but in the general vicinity of it.
Anonymous1042537
The Great Passage was another great example. It delved into the seemingly boring subject matter of dictionary-making, but it was a surprisingly charming show. 3-Gatsu no Lion also looks promising, I enjoyed a lot of the first season (but wasn't a fan of the forced comedy sometimes).
Anonymous1042537
Like the episode where Tenma first meets Grimmer on the train to Prague and they have a picnic on the mountain was so dang good. I really need to rewatch that.
Anonymous1042537
There are some elements of that style in other shows too, but to a lesser extent. Like some parts of Rakguo (mainly season 1) was very soothing. Naoki Urasawa's Monster had some fantastic, almost melancholic episodes like this.
Anonymous1042537
It seems that most anime w/ that kind of style usually also have another genre mixed in. Mushishi was also very naturalistic, ACCA had a political underpinning.
Anonymous1042537
It's sort of in the vein of a "Mushishi" style show. I suspect it's an emerging subgenre of slice of life that's meant to be very calming, relaxing, atmospheric which I really am digging.
Anonymous1042537
I really hope there are more shows like it; not that it was perfect, but it was certainly unique and hit a lot more than it missed. I really like those cool, quiet shows you can enjoy with a nice cup of tea before you go to sleep.
Anonymous1042537
Ironically though, I would say that the first half of ACCA (up until the big flashback) is better enjoyed week by week, or at least that's what I found.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It felt good marathoning a show again rather than waiting week by week and next weekend I'll probably marathon house of five leaves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Forgot to mention...there were certainly a share of moments in Acca that feel fanservish to the female audience =P
SuperMario
@Aidan: haven't noticed that. Will fix it soon.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Only problem I can see is that the posts have no spaces in between paragraphs.
SuperMario
... to be near my laptop for an entire week. First time that I had to blog entirely through my phone. Seemed to work out fine but I had to borrow screenshots from other source (I thank you that other source) ^^
SuperMario
*unless* rather than *as long as*. This has been a crazy week for me as I didn't have a chance
SuperMario
@anon1039488: I find the idea of limiting excess to exclusively stream an aime is a dumb idea; because as long as people have a chance to expose to the anime they won't really care to check it out. So I detest owning the legal streaming account, but I always pay back by buying DVDs/Blurays that I liked
SuperMario
I watched House of Five Leaves by the same mangaka and I really enjoyed it. Nataume Ono is a pretty excelent storyteller (a bit mixed on her art-style thou)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I agree that the first dew episodes of ACCA were not that engaging but the endingg neatly tied up all loose ends. I still feel Grossular's act is kind of messy (why was he under such control from Lilium? He's not that kind to be in such passive role to be honest) but other than those I don't have any real complaints.
Anonymous1039488
Competition is good, but it makes it cost so much to legally watch everything. That's why a lot of people pirate I feel.
Anonymous1039488
You have Crunchryoll and Funi, fine. Then there's Daisuki which is kinda random. Then Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu all have some random anime, though it seems that mainly Amazon has current series
Anonymous1039488
I don't have Amazon Strike, which is like their new venture into anime I guess. There's too many streaming services to keep up with tbh
Kaiser-Eoghan
To be honest I'm pretty crap when it comes to supporting things, I don't pay for almost all the things I watch/read/play, I don't have a crunchy or amazon account, I still pirate legal streams.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Is it a case that your country is blocked? Maybe go for a vpn? If you absolutely have to you could pirate the show...
Anonymous1039488
I wanna watch Re:Creators but don't have Amazon... :( alas
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel like I need to wait and see approach with sekaisuru Kado...this prologue phase is...long...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wish it had been 24 episodes long though to better organize itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Favourite characters were Jean, Groslur and Nino.
Can’t say I cared for the goofy interactions between Jean’s workfriends though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet for whatever I could say about the pacing, when the twists happen they creep up on you and the show mostly lands every one of them, even if I’m not exactly pleased that sometimes the series does the “I pulled it out of the hat/ass” approach.
I’m relatively indifferent on the art/animation.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did feel it picks up, improves by the mid-mark and to an extent the wait is worth it and things do come together even if I wasn’t always totally confidant with how it was getting there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Having the protagonist go from district to district to flesh out the settings a decent enough idea and the main characters a fairly chill, cool guy.
Though the dialogue does create suspicion, intrigue, it does also plod/pad in equal measure at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Finally decided to sit down and watch Acca.
This show had its lovers/haters I’m sure, having watched it my feelings are mixed.
It is a slight breath of fresh air I’ll give it that and makes me want to maybe re-assess of adaptations of the author’s work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The only assayas film I've encountered so far that I disliked was Irma Vep, even though the lead actress was great, the surrounding performances, especially by Jean-Pierre-Lenaud were awful. Sils Maria I was initially evasive of because I'd heard that the relationship between Binoche and Stewarts characters was under-unexplored.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Weersathakul's films are something else entirely...Otherworldly yet still cinematic. I feel a bit underwhelmed after watching the Unknown girl. The identity of the culprit, for example, feel forced for me that take me out our their naturalistic style. I'mmin between Clouds of sils maria too, know it's a good movie but it feels pretentous at times, like the movie Youth
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also got round to watching Unknown girl by Dardenne, it carries enough moments of their brilliance but I felt they didn’t have as much mastery over their usual pacing style this time round, for the first time it felt like a thriller that played out like a drama, rather than a drama that has a pseudo thriller feel to it.
Going to watch Clouds of sils Maria next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The entire second half, which I’d have watched an entire film about is very atmospheric and dreamy/esoteric nearing just exactly the kind of thing I like.
The way he uses/shoots Thailands geography along with his cinematography is impressive, particularly in that second half.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: He shoots something simple like a chopping scene in a strangely engaging way, the scene with the old woman going into the cave is also very impressively shot and that one driving scenes with that pop song in the background has an airy feel to it.
In some ways I agree that there’s a bit of sensuality to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It’s the kind of film that feeling tired/relaxed when watching it isn’t a condemnation of it(although a share of moments in the first half could be patience testing), it’s the sort of film where you aren’t really aware of anything outside of watching the film when you watch it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally looked into a Weersathakul film, Tropical Malady. I don’t even know how to give a star rating for this film.
SuperMario
I'm still on the fence with Alice & Zouroku. Like the title suggests, the warm chemistry between those two are its strongest point, but those moments are far and few in between as the story progresses and I don't care one bit about the Red Queen storyline. I might drop this one if the story doesn't improve
SuperMario
@Lenlo: 3 episodes anf Berserk still hasn't grabbed me as much. Yep facial expressions are really off-putting
Lenlo
Man... the facial expression in Berserk for the 3D models are, ever so slowly, killing me.
AidanAK47
Alright. Tommarrow I will get out all those posts I am late on seeing as the impressions are all finished.
AidanAK47
SukaSuka still has me mixed. On one hand there really are some great ideas and some well executed moments. But some of the dialogue is a bit typical of a light novel and the fanservice is really shameless. The massage at the end of the episode was something the show could really do without.
Konstantinos Travlos
I am in love with RE:Creators. I have no idea if they will keep it as good, but these two first episodes did all the right things.
AidanAK47
Alright, Easter made me lazy so it's time to play catch up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Puran: Or even Georgiou Nikolaidis while I'm at it, morning patrol is a great mood piece. Not familiar with the other guy.
Puran
@Kaiser: No Grammatikos recommendation? :)
SuperMario
I still enjoy Zero pretty much. I like the contrast between the beastfallen and Zero. The hilarious lines sound more like accidental to me, not the best product but I enjoy the ride so far
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree with everything you said. Apparently Haneke put Flashmob on hold because the main actress was conflicting in her schedule, so he decided to do Happy End instead
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Does the old man represent gritty anime of old? I don't know honestly I'm just throwing it out there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: In case you hadn't heard, Haneke dropped the Flashmob movie and is now doing one about the refugee crisis.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To whoever will be playing Godard in that biopic, I'd wonder if they could capture how incredibly douchey he sounds irl lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: There is such a big divide between 50s/60s Bresson and 70s/80s Bresson.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lathimos and Avaranas remind me in an odd way of Tarr in that they're the only Greek filmakers people seem to talk about , Check out Koundorous and Theodorous Angelopolous' works if you can.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Meh, I don't like that sort of overly on the nose social commentary some American films and tv shows do in recent years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Godards extremely hit or miss with me. Hazanavicius did the artist I think, but I'd sooner recommend Biancnieves as a stronger example of a modern take on silent cinema or maybe a Guy Maddin film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lotznitza directed a gentle creature not Zvyagintsev, though the latter is a fantastic director, Leviathan's ending hit me very very hard, its gut punching and I appreciated that the return never went into too much detail regarding the father.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: off topic, I didn't realize Get Out having such buzz reception. It's coming here next week so I will get to watch it
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Michel Hazanavicius makes a biopic about Jean-Luc Godard and Anne Wiazemsky (the actress in Au Hasard Balthazard), which I think will be interesting. I considered The Lobster one of the best film out of that year so I anticipate his next movie a hell lot. Yep, I watched few movies from Andrey Zvyagintsev and he certainly is in my radar. Bleak, social commentary, technical impressive
AidanAK47
Oh, it's confirmed that was what was actually said in Japanese. Well...that's rather cringe worthy.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Can't say I am too fond of it myself. Though that arrow to the knee reference definitely sounds like something the translator added in.
Anonymous1026829
Holy shit Zero is hilarious. "I used to be a mercenary like you once. But then I took an arrow to the knee." "My magic is super weak so I need a powerful offering. Can you loan me your head please?" The comedy is so pointed and understated.
Vonter
I do like how contrasting Zelda is to Nier in the sense that. Zelda cares more about how the game plays and making the player have fun constantly but doesn't care about telling something. Nier Automata doesn't care what it throws to the player but cares a lot about it tells the things that happen to player.
Vonter
I think this is a hard game to score. Mainly because IMO the combat has wear out a bit do to the repetition and the sidequests have been a mixed bag with some being relevant to the plot or themes and some being just fodder to level up. On the other hand the game has a lot of implications, subtext and symbolism that so far has been enriching to reflect upon.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, Actually wrote up 4/5s of a review on Nier Automata but with the new season I haven't had time to finish writing the review. Though my thoughts on it are similar to yours.
Vonter
Nier Automata has a 10+ hour prologue. So far the game feels like it's more interested in delivering strong emotions than a compelling narrative, not that script is poor but seems disjointed in a way, circling around the themes of existentialism, purpose and truth without overexpositing about these things. It also some moments remind me of Fragile Dreams. Like the despair.
AidanAK47
The old man is the one I can't pin down. Been thinking he might represent the kind of anime that's critically lauded but sadly unpopular. Makes sense as he's one of the few on the opening that doesn't stand near ads for his anime. Or else he's a live action drama representative.
AidanAK47
Been wondering about the Re:Creators characters. We got the obvious representatives from Magical girl, Mecha, Light novel and video game. The knight girl looks like clear homage to Saber from Fate so a Visual novel representive? The psycho girl looks to be a chunni anime representative. And the guy who appeared at the end of ep 2 is clearly Shounen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Ramsay one sticks out as the most interesting to me as does the lathimos one. I'm curious about that Russian one about the woman looking for her imprisoned husband as I'd like to watch more contempory Russian films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: If you can get passed the accents Ramsay did a strong piece of social realism in the 90s called Ratcatcher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I think the only Baumbach film I've seen is Frances Ha and I liked the new wavey feel it had. With The lobster and re-watching dogtooth I was able to get into Lathimos' pitch black humour alot more. I've never actually seen a hong-sang so film.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I still really enjoy it but I do get what you mean. Looking at the series overall so far it does feel like there was lost potential.
Amagi
I honestly still don't know what to think of LWA. I wasn't a fan of the formularic first half but the second half doesn't really catch me either. I loved the first OVA though.
AidanAK47
Well I will be damned. That G Koh commenter managed to predict the inclusion of Yggdrasil in Little Witch Academia. Nicely done.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: sadly i won't make it this year. I wanna try the Toronto International Film Fest next time whenever I have a chance
SuperMario
@Kaiser:you heard about this year's Cannes selection?Overall it's solid, not many that scream "masterpiece" for me.Overall I'm exciting for Hong Sang Soo's new movies (he has 2 movies screening at Cannes and 1 already aired at Berlin.What the hell),and The Killing of the Scared Deer(Yorgos Lnthimos), You were never really here (Lynne Ramsay),Okja(Bong Joon Ho) and Meyerowitz Stories(Noah Baubach)
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm...just found out That Blame! 2017 is being done by a the Ajin director, not sure how I felt about that.
AidanAK47
Think this is the best time to end the series too as the difficultly was getting to be a bit too cheap.
AidanAK47
Lore wise it's pretty disappointing. Ending the game with an enemy that doesn't really have that much relevance. But Gameplay wise it was excellent. The final area was just beautiful.
Lenlo
Ringed City was a great piece of DLC and a good way to end the series imo.
AidanAK47
Dark souls sure can give you workout. Finally got around to finishing the ringed city DLC. Funny thing is that people were raving about how hard Midir was when I didn't have that much trouble with him. Gaol gave me some trouble but I managed it. Hardest was the demon prince and god I hate multi stage boss fights. Such a goddamn pain.
SuperMario
Atom still waiting for suitable subs. I swear to God, for a completist like myself the wait is unbearable, especially it should've been available already
HelghastKillzone
Yes it is.
Anonymous1020539
I mean...
Anonymous1020539
Re:producers is really great
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I can see myself chancing more of it, I kind of caught into its rhythm a bit.
AidanAK47
Novels are actually really short. About 90 pages long per volume. They really could cover this in a single cour.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, SukaSuka? From what I could tell it covered the first two chapters of the light novel. Each novel has 5 chapters. Though the first and last chapter are more of a prologue and epilogue respectively.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually if shuumatsu's first episode is going faster than the novel, roughly how much so? Its still obviously a slow burn in animated format but how much was covered in episode 1?
AidanAK47
Could have done without the huge infodump but otherwise still loving Re:Creators. Seeing a magical girl shocked over her own level of destructive power was great.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, I liked the use of music early on in shuumatsu and theres a good mood set up early on along with a good opening scene but the later parts of the episode except maybe for the after credits bit get a shrug from me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Kado has made its hook, now it needs not to keep holding its cards and get going.
SuperMario
hmmm, don't know what to think about Kado ep2. Still good but I expected more
SuperMario
But really my mentality is that this site comes first. Getting more traffic and improve the site are my top priorities, then "what I wanna do for myself" comes later
SuperMario
@Travlos: guess you won't have to read me this season :). Haven't checked out the last episode of Kado yet but based from the first 2 episodes I think you'd enjoy that show.
Don’t worry. It’s something Aidan and me both agree on. We pretty much write for ourselves, otherwise we couldn’t have stayed this long. I get a chance to go off track once in a while to write something I wanna write.
Konstantinos Travlos
@SuperMario. I am definitely watching Shingeki no Koyjin 2, Shingeki no Bahamut 2, Re:Creators, Little Witch Academia, and probably Kado and Zero Kara. I may also do Zipang this season.
On the reaction reaction. What you say is ok. But remember, a hobby is something you do for yourself. There is a limit to how much you should care about the views of others. :)
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Or if I can use a quote from Chang from Black lagoon : "A fragranced shit will forever still retain the smell of shit"
Lenlo
As most likely the biggest Berserk fan in this chatbox, its better but that doesnt make it good. Spraying fabreeze on crap doesnt make it any more appealing. Yet I will watch it anyways.
Anonymous1018231
You don't even know
Anonymous1018231
Lies Aidan it is soooo much better
Anonymous1017807
Tbh I'm enjoying Alice to Zouroku so much simply because I identify with the old guy's no-nonsense attitude. It's fun to see the annoying loli get put in her place. X.D
AidanAK47
Anyway Bam is supposed to be covering it. Seeing as he covered the first season.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I watched the first episode of the second season. Better? Yes, but only slightly.. It has all the same problems as the first season.
Anonymous1017501
and nobody's covering it lol
Anonymous1017501
Like dramatically
Anonymous1017501
It really is much better
Anonymous1017501
You know guys its not too late to start watching Berserk Season 2...
AidanAK47
I just get annoyed when interaction is like "HUMAN, YOUR EMOTION RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT. I THEORIZE THIS IS THE REASON YOUR EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT."
Their is a definite layer of pretentiousness in how it's written, seeing how nobody gets annoyed when every character tries to psychological profile them.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I have heard word that these two episodes were a prologue story and the real story is going to kick into gear next episode. But if the characters keep talking like this then it's not going to matter what happens. It will just be terrible.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Jojo part 5 died for this. That makes it all the sadder. Plus it's two cour so this show is gonna be on for half a year.
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