Posted by psgels on 18 September 2009 with categories: Phantom

Oh boy. It took two calm before the storm episodes to get here, but damn. This was such an awesome episode. The style it was told in was completely different from what I expected, but this episode was SO WORTH THE WAIT. It really reminded me why, despite Tokyo Magnitude, this is my favourite series of the past half year.

With finales like this one, you really expect something over the top: really fast pacing, an epic gunfight or a very long action scene or something. Instead, this episode just played out very sloooowly. The background music was calm and quiet, and instead it very slowly moved to the inevitable: Cal’s death. It was really focused at getting the best out of the characters. Instead, Ein was delivering on the action, while Reiji and Cal’s fight ended in just one shot. The two of them are great marksmen, so it would indeed have been strange if the gunfight would have lasted any longer.

Cal’s eventual motive, to just be noticed, was a nice twist at the end. In the end, the Scythe Master managed to manipulate her, but not to the point at which she would hate Reiji with passion, but rather that she desperately wanted to be noticed by him, instead of Ein. Because of those talks from Scythe Master, she didn’t get convinced that Reiji was a horrible person, but rather she fully believed that Reiji didn’t care about her. That makes all her actions even more irrational than they already were, but I believe that that’s the point this series is trying to make: while we would like to make the best decision 100% of the time, those pesky emotions and especially love tend to get in the way a lot.

The next episode should prove to be an action-packed finale, at this point, it’s easy to think of what to expect. At this point, I can see no way in which the creators are ever going to be able to screw this up anymore. I personally suspect that the creators are going for an ending similar to El Cazador’s: simple, but effective.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

31 Responses

  1. ZACK says:

    Damn! the subs for taking forever and yeah Phantom is awesome redefined!

  2. meow says:

    Awesome, I guess…but damn I’m bummed out now. I knew this was going to happen but…*sigh*. It’s such a bummer that Reiji couldn’t save Cal from Scythe. It’s like she was doomed the minute she fell into his hands. Now I remember why I didn’t want to play this game.

  3. ssj4jw says:

    I thought there were multiple endings in the game.

  4. Perrin4869 says:

    Hm… I didn’t watch the episode yet, I’m waiting for the subs, but it sounds like the outcome is better than I expected… Still not enough to redeem it in my book though. But I guess I’ll save all the bashing and trolling for your review next week :P

  5. meow says:

    Yep, but most, if not all are pretty tragic – with most of the other heroines dying.

    *SPOILERS* Cal’s route has Elen fatally wounded by the Number Sisters. Cal and Reiji survive but wind up becoming assassins again. In Claudia’s, either Reiji kills Claudia to save himself from Inferno or he lets himself get killed by Claudia to let her escape. Forever separated by death. Mio’s has the most survivors cos both Ein and Cal make it out for the moment but Reiji separates from Mio to protect her while he goes to war against the Godoh group and Cal retains her grudge against Reiji. Not a good conclusion imho. Elen’s ending is probably the happiest with a proper conclusion.

    I thought it might have been better if Reiji had somehow disarmed Cal – shooting for her gun arm instead of a fatal point. Perhaps it’s not possible against a gunfighter of Cal’s calibre but still…

    I was thinking of maybe Reiji not resisting at all but from info about the Phantom Integration ending, apparently, if Reiji hesitates – Cal WILL actually kill him – much like she how she killed Lizzie – and wind up wondering why Reiji didn’t shoot her. Very sad.

  6. Camario says:

    There wasn’t really much doubt about what ending they would most likely choose, I think, just arguing over details.

    I’m glad that they seemed to have pulled it off well enough, though I’ll still have to wait for the translation.

    On a purely personal level I’d have appreciated a Cal ending more, even considering what that implied as meow wrote above, but I don’t dislike going with the Ein route either. That’s the good thing about games with multiple endings, you don’t have to like just one.

    Nevertheless, the anime has been a very good adaptation, all things considered. Everything else is going to be pretty much on autopilot now, I’d hope.

  7. hashi says:

    An excellent episode of an excellent show. My current infatuation with Takagaki Ayahi as a seiyuu makes me an Ein fan, but in any case, I found Cal an unsatisfying mate for Reiji: Sawashiro Miyuki’s voicing of the young Cal always gave me the feeling there was something wrong with her, a sort of desperate artificiality. Really great seiyuu work from Miyukicchi there. Not that her work as the older Cal wasn’t great, too. There is a triumvirate of top female seiyuus here: Koshimizu Ami as Mio was at least as good as the other two. As a seiyuu fan, this show is heaven for me. Irino Miyu proved something to me, too.

  8. meow says:

    Haha. Speaking of seiyuu, did Cal’s seiyuu do a side role in episode 10 of Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 as Yuuki’s school friend Itsuki-kun? There was a ring of familiarity when I heard Itsuki talking.

    I think I agree that the young Cal voice had an stressed quality to it but I thought it was pretty in-character. I think it’s pretty challenging to play two such unbelievably varying sides to the same character. Cal’s physical and character transformation in only 2 years is almost unbelievable. Was she also trying to portray a foreigner (ie. non-japanese) speaking Japanese? I’m glad they didn’t make Cal speak english though. ^^ (*remembering certain painful scenes from Black Lagoon*)

  9. Mentar says:

    Actually, in the Cal ending (which certainly is happier than the Ein ending chosen here) Elen isn’t mortally wounded by the Zahlenschwestern (who were taken care of by Reiji and Cal), but from the Godoh group, when she was covering Cal/Reiji’s retreat. The reason why this ending is happier is simple: Cal’s death is incredibly tragic, she ultimately self-destructed. It accomplished nothing, and only results in loss and grief. Elen’s death in Cal’s ending on the other hand is victorious: She managed to protect the one she loved until he was safe. Her death accomplished something, and she goes out a heroine.

    Choosing the canonic Elen path underlines the main motif of Phantom: The Underworld is cruel, terrible and nasty. You’ll only find death and heartbreak there. And I’m glad that they managed to preserve all the impact from the game and did NOT go for some happy-fluffier harem ending.

  10. Reltair says:

    If Reiji is so good, why doesn’t he just shoot the pistol out of Cal’s hand? =/

  11. jho says:

    I’m totally with Mentar. After Reiji and Elen both survived what seemed sure deaths, even with the dark undertones of this series, I thought that all the introduced protagonists would survive. I was totally blown away by this episode. It was one of the best episodes I’ve watched in a very long time, and it was precisely because the creators did not shy away from tragedy (which is what made Naruto such an amazing shonan manga with the deaths of Asuma & Jiraiya, and likewise what made it so lame when it chose a dbz do-over when Pain gave the village’s lives back).

  12. z says:

    The whole episode felt methodical and almost pre-determined yet was still very compelling to watch. Reiji/Cal’s (shared?) vision prior to the duel was especially powerful.

    Elen character has had the most lasting depth for me and in light of the way they represented her this episode (and how the series opens) I think the creators have turned the series into something of a character study of her.

  13. meow says:

    Mentar, you make a really good point about Cal’s death being an illustration of the dark and cruel nature of the mafia underworld. However, I still come away with a strong feeling that this is just not the best way to resolve Cal’s situation. Rewatch episode 16. Cal should have meant alot to Reiji. There had to have been some way to save her. It just seems too cruel a twist of fate for a kid like Cal to fall into Scythe’s hands in the first place, only to be moulded as a tool to torment Reiji and to have Reiji take her out so easily. Right according to Scythe’s plan – which just sucks. I felt that Reiji gave up too soon.

    I also disagree with your position that Ein’s death seems more heroic, by comparison. Ein was a powerful combatant with incredible survival abilities. She took a chest shot close to the heart and dropped into the water and still survived. She survived for a very long time after Lizzie shot her too, and I believe, would have eventually treated herself even if Reiji hadn’t shown up again afterwards. To me, it felt like she let herself get taken out of the picture to give room for Reiji to be with Cal, sacrificing her own future and happiness and dreams to find her home for Reiji’s sake. Worse, Reiji and Cal go back to a life of bloodshed, with an uncertain future.

    And of course, what sucks worse in both endings, is that although Scythe gets his comeuppance, Inferno itself, under McGuire, remains. Even in Ein’s ending, did Reiji and Ein really get away and live happily ever after?
    Or did McGuire eventually take them out, just to tie up loose ends?

    An alternate ending doesn’t necessarily have to be a haremy cute and fluffy. An alternate Ein ending for me would be one where Cal goes back to her old personality, makes peace with Reiji, parts from him and maybe finds another life for herself. She’s a genius at fixing things. She could have been an MIT engineer or a bike mechanic/racer. Or someone who could go back to the slums where she came from and look after other kids like how she used to be, defending them from gangsters. It fits her gunslinger duelist style of killing better than that of an assassin anyway. Too unbelievably happy for your stomach? Think of that scene in the OP, where her cold assassin facade breaks and she sticks out her tongue at the little girl in the lift. Where the heck did that come from?

  14. meow says:

    Sorry. I guess it just winds down to this game being Phantom of Inferno. It isn’t really meant to have happy endings – just like Noir. Never mind. ^^

  15. Mentar says:

    Yep, too unbelievably fluffy-happy. Sorry, I don’t think that these kind of endings would have been satisfactory and fitting for the show. McGuire – sorry, but does anyone seriously care? He’s been a rational underworld boss without true malice.

    In the Cal ending, she and Reiji turn into bounty hunters Bonnie&Clyde style. They’re clearly enjoying themselves, so I have no qualms with it at all. That’s something entirely different to what they are and do now.

    Elen didn’t die on purpose, lord no. Rewatch the ending. She said that in the end, she realized that she DID love Reiji too, after all, and thus learned to hate Cal a bit – but then again, Reiji chose her, so shikata ga nai. She achieved her main goal, which was to keep Reiji alive and protect him, which gives much more a feeling of accomplishment than Cal’s death. I’m sure we should be able to agree on at least that.

  16. someguy says:

    I’d agree with, an alternate ending doesn’t necessarily have to be a haremy cute and fluffy. Excellent episode, but..

    There was not just one way that reiji could of acted. He made a decision to kill Cal. Yes he did care for her and will carry all her hate and Sadness, but he ‘never gave thought’ to act in a way that would benefit cal so she could live. I also felt that Reiji gave up too soon.

    The best way to resolve Cal’s situation for her own sake was not death (imo)Like we saw when reiji shot Cal. Cal reverted even more into her old self. She is able to change. And death from either Reiji or Cal is not the only way for Cal to change.

    Yes I do want to see an ending to show that the underworld is a cruel terrible place. But this.. while done well doesn’t fit right. Also it has destroyed my hope in Reiji character being a kind person who try’s for the best situation. He had a clear head unlike Cal but yet it ended like this.

    I wonder if it really will fully follow the VN to the end, maybe they might include some twists or deaths..

  17. psgels psgels says:

    I think that some of you are forgetting that Reiji is supposed to be a cold-blooded assassin, rather than your average high school student. Yes, he does have good intentions, but remember how he so mercilessly killed off these innocent people in the first arc? Unlike most other people, killing feels much more natural to him, which is probably why he ended up chosing to kill Cal, rather than what any regular person would try to do and talk things out.

  18. Snowolf says:

    I think I kind of knew Cal was going to die in the end, but to die from Reiji’s own hands-damn. That was something I didn’t see coming.

    BTW- this soundtrack is going to be hugely long. They STILL came up with new tracks, and this is the second to last episode. Jeez. But it’s good music.

    I’m glad Cal forgave Reiji. In the end, she was just some pent up teenager who wanted to let her feelings of loneliness and anger toward someone she loved, and poor Reiji was in the way. What bothered me the most was how she looked so much older and said to Reiji that they could be together- SHE WAS LIKE, UM, SEVEN WHEN HE TUTORED HER. So…that was kind of wierd. But overall, this show has been great, and I can’t wait to see what the season finale brings us.

    I must say that TM 8.0 brings up serious competition. That show hit me in the heart hard like no other show has done before. And that’s really good, for someone like me. So I’m curious to see which will be your number one for the season. :D

  19. NIck says:

    Wow when Cal died I was like DANG Reiji, I hope someone strikes you right in the crotch. I hope Cal pulls an Elen and comes back for more, perhaps she could put Scythe master in an apartment and blow em up, hey he did blow up her and Reiji’s place.

  20. Blue says:

    This really sucks, I wasn’t able to get emotionally or feel AT ALL for Cal after the time skip. The change just bothered me waay to much and spent most of my time trying to think of how someo 14year old? Can become like that in 2 years. Just bothered me

  21. windy says:

    I really liked this episode but I completely agree with what meow said. I also felt that Cal’s death could be avoided somehow. In one shot Reiji ended her life like that, it is nearly unbelievable, when I saw this I got the impression she let him kill her. It was such a tragical death, experiencing so many griefs in her life, I didn’t want to see her dying like that, too cruel and heartless! But well, nevertheless, her death showed us the despicable reality of the mafia underworld and what sort of tragedy their actions could bring about. And what a sorrow! But still, Reiji shouldn’t have! I even would have prefered him to let Cal kill him. But also couldn’t bring myself to imagine Cal’s becoming one again the innocent person she was before : too many uneraisable sins committed. It’s hard to picture her starting a life from scratch.

  22. windy says:

    By the way, can we find the translated version of the visual novel Phantom? I’ve searched for it everywhere but it doesn’t seem to have been released anywhere else besides Japan nor has it been translated yet. So I was wondering how could some of you know about the multiple choices the game can display?

  23. UmbrellaMan says:

    I agree that Cal’s death was tragic and cruel, but the question is would Cal have learned to change her ways? Unlike Ein, she was twisted by hate and jealousy. Would Reiji just talking to her for 10 min have completely erased all her feelings towards him and the world. Not that she couldn’t have eventually gotten “better” (with some serious therapy), but I don’t see it happening in an instant. Anger is a powerful emotion.

  24. Camario says:

    @windy: Phantom of Inferno was officially translated and released in English by the now defunct Hirameki International. Try to do a more comprehensive search.

    The company itself doesn’t exist anymore, unfortunately, but they did legally sell the game a few years ago and some of us have bought it. This isn’t really too hard to confirm.

    @UmbrellaMan: If they had gone with the Cal ending, I think that’s Reiji’s actions there would speak volumes to her.

  25. Snowolf says:

    For future reference guys, when talking about the game, and the “possible endings” that might occur- PLEASE PUT SPOILER MARKS. There are many of us who do not like being spoiled, especially at the very end of the show. I know a couple of you guys did this, but a lot of you didn’t, so just remember next time to do it. :D


  26. Camario says:

    I would agree with that point, but keep in mind that talking about endings that can’t possibly occur anymore (the Cal ending, for example) and about events that have already happened in this same episode (25) shouldn’t really be considered a spoiler.

    Unless you mean not mentioning spoilers in the very first line to prevent them from showing up unmarked in the Recent Comments section over there in the corner, which is something I can also understand.

  27. Troyen says:

    While its true that endings which can’t occur anymore aren’t really spoilers and are probably okay, a few comments have slipped in some unmarked spoilers about the likely ending for the anime. :(

  28. windy says:

    Thanks Camario. I haven’t found it yet but maybe it will be on sales again one of these times.

  29. windy says:

    I’ve found the game and played two different routes : Claudia’s ( the ending made a huge impact on me!) and Cal’s routes. I just loved the game even better than the anime, the main characters’ personalities were better expressed through their reported feelings, thoughts and most of all their facial expressions and tone of voice. Even if overall, the series did manage to stick to the dark and gloomy mood of the VN, the only flaw that I found in this series is that some of the characters are lacking something that made them so extraordinary and touching in the game. Cal’s character when she just met Reiji wasn’t so calm and steady : she was kinda mischievous ( I particularly liked when she joked about Reiji being older than herself! Or when she was so reluctant to let Reiji buy her new stuff )and full of energy, talked non-stop and her character stood out from the very beginning, in the series, I just found her some interest after nurtured those feelings of revenge toward Reiji and so forth. Before that she was just a simple girl among so many others, that’s a pity! In the VN she starts being a particular character at the moment she starts speaking to Reiji. Claudia also went through some changes, her soft voice and eyes devoid of any guilt in the VN made her seem so innocent and nice, just as a mask concealing her own true self, her own soul drown in sins( though it’s never said in the series, it was her who killed Romero, her own brother!). But on the whole, I think this anime adaptation was very close to its original source. Reiji and Elen are the characters that experienced the less changes and Cal’s grown-up version was really close to the original, it’s just that in the series the change in her behaviour clashed too much with her prior behavior, whereas in the game , well, she was so mischievous a child that her transformation wasn’t so wierd!

  30. windy says:

    I meant above: when Cal ” joked about Reiji being younger than herself”, I accidently wrote ” older”, gomen!

  31. someguy says:

    Nice points windy :) They they did portray Cal a little different, I still think that Cal’s character before the timeskip in the anime was Great. A bit different but still I didn’t mind how they portrayed her.

    Though she is more mischievous she was also more innocent in the VN, I think in the anime they tried to make her a little bit more grown up. In the VN she always asked Reiji ‘ are you mad?’

    Also Reiji’s character was a little different in Chapter 2, he is more of a nice guy towards Cal and is more thoughtfull in the anime the whole time, while in the VN he is kind but at times was also more cold, like when he was traing Cal to shoot in the VN he was more forcefull in his words. While in the anime he was more asking Cal.

    Still I find it strange that in Chapter 2 anime Reiji comes across as more thoughfull (alot more kind) like with the pocket watch. In the VN Reiji Bought it on the spot when Cal was saying she liked it. While in the anime Reiji saw Cal looking at it and Bought it without her noticing and gave it to her later.

    Which in the anime makes it even harder to think that Reiji didn’t notice anything or help Cal at all after the timeskip in the anime. And shot to kill her before any other type of actions.

    Agree that the VN is alot better. Though the anime did a good job. Overall is wasn’t as good. If I want to watch/read the Phantom story I would reconmand playing through the VN, and then you might want to watch the anime.

Leave a Reply

@Mario, starting to think I didn't need my help after all. I hope they make something worthwhile.
On a unrelated note the Dark Souls 3 DLC boss is serious bullshit.
Hey Aidan, thqt Kickstarter project Mecha-ude has passed its goal (nearly double now with 10 more days to go). Seems like people getting real hype for it
Wonder if Bam has played the new Dark Souls DLC. Found it rather lacking when compared to previous DLC from the last games.
@Anon, it's just a video of a still image of anime girls in bikini's with a red circle around one of their chests. Seeing as this thing has no views or subscribers my guess is someones is fishing for views. To which i say...what really is the point of making videos if this is the only way you can get people to watch them?
[link src="
I"] hate this crap that they corrupt anime with (crappy video that insults anime)
So RWBY's back. I actually miss the whole RWBY team. Still prefer Ruby's old custom more. Nora looks cool.
With the fourth episode, Vivid Strike seems to have crossed an invisible line that makes it more like the original Nanoha shows rather than Vivid. The kind of brutal beatdown delivered by the co-protagonist and the build up to it is something quite alien to a normal SoL/Sports anime show.
Ep. 4 of Tiger Mask was a lot better than the last 3, quite a hyped fight that was a full 6mins long. Will continue watching in hope of an awesomely long final fight.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
Going back to the fanservice topic, its very easy to complain about it in anything but then something actually comes along that actually does it for you. I mean I always say that I don't watch a show/movie for its fanservice elements and stick with pictures on image boards, but then I ended up seeing a film where I actually got something out of the fanservice while watching the film its.
Kaiser Eoghan
The oujia prequel was competent genre fare, the director cared about the characters and every now and the built up a decent mood. Although jump Scares are there . And I always appreciate a horror film having a mean spirited ending. One of the rare cases where the young actors do well in a horror film. The pace is a bit uneven, rushed and a bit laggy .
Kaiser Eoghan
In the sense of how messed up/especially bleak those two episodes were.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was the sense too with both those episodes of "Jesus...I wasn't ready for that...."
Kaiser Eoghan
Though the first episode of the first season and the third episode of season 3 are very hard to beat. Adding to what I thought of s3 ep3 I felt that one hit me on the same level as s1 ep1 did so.
Though in previous seasons I generally only really liked 2 out of the 3.
@Kaiser, though the previous seasons where only 3 episodes long and you enjoyed 3 out of 6 in this season. So yo essentially get the same amount of enjoyment as previous seasons.
Kaiser Eoghan
Based on my comments, it looks like I had a mixed reaction to the third season. Three out of six, but the great was was great and forgives it but I still feel that there was more of a consistentancy in quality in the other seasons. I enjoyed every story in seasons 1 and 2.
Kaiser Eoghan
The final episode felt like a movie all on its own, I'd have gladly watched another thirty minutes of it, ending was a nice punch in the gut.
Just finished black mirror season 3. I hear people basically complaining that it's not as strong as the previous two season but I disagree. I really enjoyed this and this is a show that deserves much more episodes. Personal favorite is between shut up and dance and hated in the nation. Worst I thought was San Junipero. Overall thought each episode was interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
On the upside I loved black mirrors fifth episode, I'm a sucker for war/action-dramas and I particularly liked the tech in this one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah this is impossible for me to sit through, the romance part is also rather dull.
Kaiser Eoghan
Eh, this fourth episode is plodding and trite, feels like a bad, poorly dated 90s film.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Third episode also instilled a great sense of paranoia.
@Kaiser: thanks for that mate. I have too much to say for Flipflappers but to put them all in coherent flow is goddamn hard. And like I said I still fell I left many details out: that gung-ho potato or Yayaka and the twins
@Friend: jugding from the last convention I went to, people loved Re:Zero customs (Emilia and Rem, Ram were highlights. Or you could try RWBY characters (I for once love to see someone cosplay Pirrha Nikos or Velvet Scarlatina)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Didn't care much for new black mirrors second episode, then again I'm not really the target for that story. The third episode while a bit heavyhanded and predictable was suspenseful, nasty/mean and I liked that about it, did in 50 minutes what some thrillers fail to achieve in two hours.
Holo is a good one :0
Materials aren't a problem at all for the most part, except for anything too crazy like working in brass. I'd prefer it to be characters I'm familiar with.
Does it matter to you that they're from shows that you like, or are you just in it for the challenge?
@Friend Aidan has some good ones there. I'd also give the cast of Akame ga Kiru a shot, I don't like the series but it has a lot of neat character designs.
I was thinking simple as I didn't know what kind of materials you got on hand. I was also thinking of Holo from spice and wolf or Kino from Kinos journey either.
Mm, Tatsumaki might be not challenging enough to design for. Doesn't Shiki simply wear either a coat or Japanese kimono? I do work in set design and not in character prop design, but I'd love to try something that would let me reasonably challenge myself.
@Friend, Spit balling here but Tatsumaki from One Punch Man? I know the costume for that one would be simple enough. Or maybe Shiki from Kara No Kyoukai?
*I don't want to do anything too complex for my first try, but I also don't want to do anything boring. Boring would be a character like Rukia or Celty. Any ideas?
I remember talking about this with Emma/Kaiser before, but has anyone here gone cosplaying at an expo before? I thought it would be neat to try designing my own costume and try something else beside drawing on a computer.
@Kaiser, I am up to episode 4. 3 has been the best one so far.Though in all these episodes I pretty much figured out the twist from the get go. Still this shows always tends to get you thinking.
Kaiser Eoghan
I think the roles/identity thing with flipflappers, at least with the protaganist does fit in well with adolescence.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I've only seen the first episode so far. I felt the acting was intentional and reflected the satire Brooker was going for on the shallow nature of society. Bleak as ever but gloriously grotesque.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario:Good in depth reviewing there Mario of flipflappers episode three.
Good god this first episode of black mirror is hard to watch. I know exactly how it's going to turn out but it's just so damn painful to watch.
Well, tbh up to where I've seen there's not much explicit yaoi in yuri on ice, only a lot of fujoshi fuel.
@Kaiser. thanks for the torrent. Gonna blaze through this today.
@Topgavin, as someone who watches a metric ton of anime I am rather surprised at that estimate that 90% of it contains Yuri.
My god those gay scenes in Yuri on Ice are hard to watch for me. Wonder if this is how it feels to be a girl watching 90% of normal anime nowadays.
okay, Flip Flappers episodic review was up. This is my lengthiest weekly review so far and I still feel I missed a lot of points. Damn you Flip Flappers
Kaiser Eoghan
You have seen the light, not needing to know everything thats happening to enjoy something ^_^
Kaiser Eoghan
I've given some consideration to reviewing that oujia film followup.
Whether you see one or the other is entirely up to your preferences, so it makes no difference to me which is worse. I have gotten very tired of generic character types, but again that's just because of the things I decide to regularly follow.
I will say if it must come down to either unnatural dialogue or unnatural character types, at leas the character type is speaking their own words and not the words of the script writer.
Or was that a black and white fallacy? Maybe it was a little of both.
@Realjustified, K-Off wasn't agreeing with me. That's a Moving the Goal Posts logical Fallacy but well I will answer regardless. Honestly it's preferable to have neither. The big mistake you are making here is that you are putting down a condiction that a show must have one or the other. But both cartoons and anime can have both. I just think it's a lot more prominent in cartoons than anime.
Like, having read hundreds of harem manga over the years, a majority of the ultimate love interest always happens to be the first girl the protagonist meets.
Wait wait wait wait. Aidan and K-Off. I get that dialogue in cartoon can seem like it was written by a script writer, but at the same time, lots of anime have characters whose sole purpose is entirely scripted. The whole spectrum of "deres" and everything. What do you think is worse? Unnatural dialogue, or unnatural character types?
You guys should really go fuck yourself, it's a solution and it's nothing short of great!
You guys should really watch the first 4 episodes of Bungo, it's a prequel and it was nothing short of great!
omg!! I just realized To be Hero was one of the show that I reviewed its 1st episode back in Chinese Animation post. I watched raw then though
forgive me if I'm a bit too overwhelmed by Flip Flappers... For this episode alone I took like 25 screenshots...trying to write a review now...
I have absolutely no idea what is going on in Flip Flappers plot. And yet for some reason I am OK with that.
Anyone out there that's a fan of crude humor should go watch ep.3 of To Be Hero. Certinately stepped it up a notch from the last two humor-wise.
One downside I can think of already is that I'm bound to lose or break one of the detachable controllers. The cost for those pieces is what I'm most interested in.
Nintendo Switch hmm? Honestly it looks too good to be true. I expect some major downsides to this thing.
I like cartoons, don't get me wrong. Certainly good for a change of pace. But there is something about the way they are written that I find rather distracting.
I don't know, maybe if I said it's like the difference from how characters talk in movie vs how characters talk in a sitcom?
@K-Off, I said one liner's or jokes. Not one liner jokes. It's hard to explain. Basically when I hear a conversation in anime even if it is based in stereotypes, it at least feels like a conversation that's being had in the moment. In cartoons however there is a layer of artificiality and it feels like characters know what a person is going to say and has a response prepared.
That's probably why some of my favorite anime in recent years haven't been very heavy on character archetypes, or were either parodies of it.
Comedic dialogue with anime in recent years have leaned too much on the idea of playing off character archetypes. The collected character vs the energetic character, for one. I'd like to see more variety. Some more word play, hyperbolic humor, body humor, etc etc.
@Aidan Not quite sure what you mean by that, because it's certainly not even a majority of cartoons that rely on cheap one liner jokes. I suppose it's entirely up to taste, but I can appreciate the energy in cartoons like Steven Universe or Regular Show when compared to the increasingly repetitive dialogue found in some recent anime.
@Topgavin: I just read that review and his main reason being Shelter is pretentious. oh well! Can't never please anyone.
Thought I'd check out the reviews for Shelter on MAl and the top review is a 1/10. Apparently because it's a cute girl we sympathise with her more, which is bad because reasons. I mean.. what? MAL never ceases to amaze me
@Mario, no. It's more that the dialogue keeps trying to push out one liners or jokes regardless of whose talking.
@Aidan: maybe because they spoke in your native language do you can feel that it's artificial, ya know? I know I have the same problem with Vietnamese drama/ cartoon and maybe Japanese people have that same issues with anime?
By which I mean, the way characters talk in cartoons is very...artificial. Like you can tell that the dialgoue was clearly written beforehand and it never really sounds natural. At least to me.
@Anon, I wouldn't. The writing and structure are too cartoon. What with the episodic nature and dialogue that generally pushes for a comedic tone.
Kaiser Eoghan
Flanagan also directed absentia which I haven't seen yet but I think someone I came across of 4chan linked it to being lovecraftian?
Kaiser Eoghan
Oculus was a film of two halves for me. Hush was a pretty standard home invasion thriller, making the victim deaf was an interesting twist but not as unique as you might think, still suspenseful though.
Kaiser Eoghan
I never saw the first oujia film. Though Mike Flanagan who did the sequel, he's never made a bad movie but he's never really made a great one either.
Kaiser Eoghan
I stick to the firm belief that cartoons and anime, visually should do and be their own thing. I'll prefer a western artstyle for cartoons rather than one pretending to look like anime style.
But this is a good topic and I'm sure everyone has their own opinions so I'm looking to hear some more arguments
@anon352392: no they aren't. For me not because of where their production based, nor their intended audience, but rather their styles, both visually and storytelling-ly, are different
Anime,” they assert, is not a “style” of illustration or animation.
That's where I differ to those guys. For me, anime is a style. In that sense, I consider RWBY, and Canadian-produced short Flutter as an anime. Thunderbolt Fantasy is not and anime-influence shows/movies that are intented for Western audience like AniMatrix or Afro Samurai are anime
@Anon nah they wouldn't be because they aren't made by a japanese producer for the japanese market. Quality isn't the question, production is
NX and Red Dead Redemption 2 trailers tomorrow.
They are good series and i honestly like them alot more than most anime series, would their quality make them anime?
What about cartoons like Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Wander Over Yonder, Star Vs The Forces Of Evil?
In other news a sequel to an absolutely terrible horror movie called Ouija is out and it's...actually pretty good? Wondering if critics were paid off or it is legit good. Well it did have the guy who was behind Oculus and that was a pretty good movie.
Simplify the term down enough and anime is literally anything animated but the whole point of the term is to distinguish it. For to call Spongebob an anime makes me want to projectile vomit. Point is this, you say you watched a cartoon, people think Tom and jerry, Scooby doo etc. You say you watched an anime, people think Cowboy bebop, Attack on titan, etc. Whole point of the term.
For example, I don't consider Avatar or RWBY to be anime for while they use anime style, the writing is fundamentally structured like an American cartoon. Through I would consider Bloodivores an anime even though it was made by a Chinese animation company, making it technically a Chinese cartoon.
As far as what is and isn't anime I honestly think of the term as a means of distinguishing it from cartoon which gives the impression of being for children. It's like Graphic novel is to comic book. Though techically graphic novels are issues of comics bound in book form, the term Graphic novel is often used to distinguish works that go above superhero comics and whatnot.
Basically I think it was due to Porter Robinsons involvement that they didn't consider it anime.
@Aidan: Did the mods give any concrete reasons why they didn't consider it an anime?
@Mario, It wasn't the community that had the problem. It was the mods. The community made it pretty clear that they considered it anime.
So despite the art style is obviously anime, the character speaks in Japanese, and the production was animated by A1 Studios, it's not an anime? Sometimes I feel sad that the anime community keeps limiting themselves with such fixed minds.
I saw it yesterday and yes it was good. For a 5-minute story, they don't make it too overwhelme with details, and still pack an emotional punch. Moreover it elevates the song. Good stuffs.
Shelter was quite good though. It works well and the animation was beautiful. Song is not bad either. It's got a nice emotional punch to it though it's a bit simple a story.
Well anyway I only saw all this because I checked out the video for the first time and wanted to see how others thought of it with a quick scan through reddit. And I get this shitshow instead.
Playing the victim is the one really pisses off the internet. For refusing to admit you f*cked up only encourages people to shove how you f*cked up into your face. That's what really grinds peoples gears.
Yep, seen that too. The mods even put up another tread about the video and tried to guilt trip people by saying they got death threats. Look, internet rules 101. If you said or did something stupid admit to it and just walk away. Do not try to deflect blame or play the victim, that only adds fuel to the fire.
@Aidan oh yeah saw that live lol. Porter himself even commented on twitter about it, gotta love internet drama
So did anyone happen to catch the big old shitstorm of that Shelter music music when a mod of the Anime subreddit decided it wasn't "Anime" enough and removed the discussion post about it? Oh internet drama...what silly nonsense.
Finally caught up with JoJo. Diamond is Unbreakable has turned out to be much better than Stardust Crusaders. Should have waited for the season to finish through as I really loved marathoning it.
I had a feeling that might be the case considering the source materail for luger.
@Mario Oh I watched that, certinately worth it. Packed more story that some 12-episode shows do nowadays and gorgeous animation.
and I will check out "Shelter" music video to see what all the fuss is about
*this weekend to be exact.
Sounds like Luger Code 1951 is an OVA that will air next week, the same air date with "my" Zaregoto OVA.
@Mario: doesn't sound real at all to me lol
@Mario, I might be able to manage. If all else fails I can talk about the past of these historical figures.
While I don't mind watchinng Drifters, I swaer if I had to cover that show, I couldn't come up with anything to say.
Do you guys know what language the fairies speak in Drifters? It does sound like a genuine language
@topgavin: humanity has declined is a great show. It has good writing and dark, witty sense of humor. I could talk about it in length but psgels pretty much covered it all. He was really impressed by that show however.
That should be me covered till the weekend. Why do all my shows air on the weekend...
@Mario nah I've watched the whole thing but I'd heard about it at the start of this year and put it off. The dialogue between her and the fairies was great stuff, probably gonna rewatch it this weekend now that you mention it
Alright, I got three posts written up and will be throwing them out in about two hours or do.
I thought you've finished it. Yeah I love her character a lot, so cynical but witty. My favorite moment was when she read about fairy's plan to invent religions. She was like "so religions are invented?" (beat) "I've learn something new today". Priceless
@Mario Oh nice, it was one that I had heard about but never got round to. To put it in simple anime terms, Watashi is best girl
@topgavin: I just finished the series yo mentioned the other day: humanity is declined. Man, I love it. I know now I have a thing for dark twisted absurdist anime
@Ano340004: the name is Watashi ga Motete Dousunda, or to put it short Motete. I have fun with it but i'm not that enthuastic
@anon the english name is Kiss him, not me. Search through the first impressions if you need the jap name.
then that girl really loves BL (boy love)
what is the name of the anime that the girl is fat and then she got depressed because her favorite boy anime died then she got thin?
Season 7 is awesome so far too. It feels like the tone of the show is finally back to normal and it feels like Adventure Time again.
Whew, I binged all seasons of Adventure Time this weekend. The show hit a low spot in Season 6 but I think it needed to happen...Poor Finn needed the serious character development after what he did to FP.
You guys are too hard on it
Motete is very funny
Kaiser Eoghan
When it comes to gag manga and four-koma, I just eventually reach a stopping point with a comedy series in that format. Even with hidamari sketch.
I think it was typical light novel trash based on what was in the PV. I laughed that despite it being horrible that the crowd still cheered anyway, likely because it had a bath clip in it.
The PV was hilarious. I had no idea what the anime was about.
@Aidan I'm good, I'll stick with Working.
@K-Off, you could switch to something like Gi(a)rlish Number if you like. I for one am really digging the satire of the show. Plus I like that it's basically showing how an utter train-wreck of an anime can be made. That PV in the last episode was truly painful.
Feeling pretty disappointed with Working. I haven't gotten any more cynical with comedies, at least I don't think, and its flaws are so irritating.
@Adam Le, I find that with Comic book dialogue. Which is one of the reasons I have gone off marvel movies. Cartoons have it to a degree as well.
I love the instagram shots in Yuri
Maybe I can have a watch through those live action films and do a compare/contrast to see which version works better. After all movie and tv series are 2 different medium, and live-action vs animation is the topic that we never get tired of
speaking of which, the overlap between anime and live-action adaptation from manga is overwhelming. For this year alone, there were Erased, 3-gatsu no Lion, Fune o Amu, orange, and Chihayafuru (part 1&2). Those were just the ones I know.
@Adam: Don't know which genre you're into but you can try Fune o Amu (The Great Passage)
Adam Le
I can't seem to get into any of these new shows. I don't know, the dialogue always seems off to me and the forced comedy is a big turn off.
Reminds me of a thought I had when I was last at the Getty art museum. People walking past works of art hundreds of years old, but only taking a second-long glance before moving on to the next one. Not their fault really, it's only the professional critics who can understand what they see with depth.
I'm the opposite really, they're getting paid for what they said so they better know their shits
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose I'm slightly envious of professional critics somewhat.
Sometimes you're just meant to experience the ride you know. I don't watch those explained video anymore because after all it's just one guy's opinions.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
And I mean people who art professionals or students.
Kaiser Eoghan
I guess I'm just unsure of something, how many people watching "arty" stuff are able to pick it up on their own. By looking up an "explained video" or "explained essay" to get it, am I copping out?
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