Posted by psgels on 18 September 2009 with categories: Phantom



Oh boy. It took two calm before the storm episodes to get here, but damn. This was such an awesome episode. The style it was told in was completely different from what I expected, but this episode was SO WORTH THE WAIT. It really reminded me why, despite Tokyo Magnitude, this is my favourite series of the past half year.

With finales like this one, you really expect something over the top: really fast pacing, an epic gunfight or a very long action scene or something. Instead, this episode just played out very sloooowly. The background music was calm and quiet, and instead it very slowly moved to the inevitable: Cal’s death. It was really focused at getting the best out of the characters. Instead, Ein was delivering on the action, while Reiji and Cal’s fight ended in just one shot. The two of them are great marksmen, so it would indeed have been strange if the gunfight would have lasted any longer.

Cal’s eventual motive, to just be noticed, was a nice twist at the end. In the end, the Scythe Master managed to manipulate her, but not to the point at which she would hate Reiji with passion, but rather that she desperately wanted to be noticed by him, instead of Ein. Because of those talks from Scythe Master, she didn’t get convinced that Reiji was a horrible person, but rather she fully believed that Reiji didn’t care about her. That makes all her actions even more irrational than they already were, but I believe that that’s the point this series is trying to make: while we would like to make the best decision 100% of the time, those pesky emotions and especially love tend to get in the way a lot.

The next episode should prove to be an action-packed finale, at this point, it’s easy to think of what to expect. At this point, I can see no way in which the creators are ever going to be able to screw this up anymore. I personally suspect that the creators are going for an ending similar to El Cazador’s: simple, but effective.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

31 Responses

  1. ZACK says:

    Damn! the subs for taking forever and yeah Phantom is awesome redefined!
    ANIME OF THE YEAR!

  2. meow says:

    Awesome, I guess…but damn I’m bummed out now. I knew this was going to happen but…*sigh*. It’s such a bummer that Reiji couldn’t save Cal from Scythe. It’s like she was doomed the minute she fell into his hands. Now I remember why I didn’t want to play this game.

  3. ssj4jw says:

    I thought there were multiple endings in the game.

  4. Perrin4869 says:

    Hm… I didn’t watch the episode yet, I’m waiting for the subs, but it sounds like the outcome is better than I expected… Still not enough to redeem it in my book though. But I guess I’ll save all the bashing and trolling for your review next week :P

  5. meow says:

    Yep, but most, if not all are pretty tragic – with most of the other heroines dying.

    *SPOILERS* Cal’s route has Elen fatally wounded by the Number Sisters. Cal and Reiji survive but wind up becoming assassins again. In Claudia’s, either Reiji kills Claudia to save himself from Inferno or he lets himself get killed by Claudia to let her escape. Forever separated by death. Mio’s has the most survivors cos both Ein and Cal make it out for the moment but Reiji separates from Mio to protect her while he goes to war against the Godoh group and Cal retains her grudge against Reiji. Not a good conclusion imho. Elen’s ending is probably the happiest with a proper conclusion.

    I thought it might have been better if Reiji had somehow disarmed Cal – shooting for her gun arm instead of a fatal point. Perhaps it’s not possible against a gunfighter of Cal’s calibre but still…

    I was thinking of maybe Reiji not resisting at all but from info about the Phantom Integration ending, apparently, if Reiji hesitates – Cal WILL actually kill him – much like she how she killed Lizzie – and wind up wondering why Reiji didn’t shoot her. Very sad.

  6. Camario says:

    There wasn’t really much doubt about what ending they would most likely choose, I think, just arguing over details.

    I’m glad that they seemed to have pulled it off well enough, though I’ll still have to wait for the translation.

    On a purely personal level I’d have appreciated a Cal ending more, even considering what that implied as meow wrote above, but I don’t dislike going with the Ein route either. That’s the good thing about games with multiple endings, you don’t have to like just one.

    Nevertheless, the anime has been a very good adaptation, all things considered. Everything else is going to be pretty much on autopilot now, I’d hope.

  7. hashi says:

    An excellent episode of an excellent show. My current infatuation with Takagaki Ayahi as a seiyuu makes me an Ein fan, but in any case, I found Cal an unsatisfying mate for Reiji: Sawashiro Miyuki’s voicing of the young Cal always gave me the feeling there was something wrong with her, a sort of desperate artificiality. Really great seiyuu work from Miyukicchi there. Not that her work as the older Cal wasn’t great, too. There is a triumvirate of top female seiyuus here: Koshimizu Ami as Mio was at least as good as the other two. As a seiyuu fan, this show is heaven for me. Irino Miyu proved something to me, too.

  8. meow says:

    Haha. Speaking of seiyuu, did Cal’s seiyuu do a side role in episode 10 of Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 as Yuuki’s school friend Itsuki-kun? There was a ring of familiarity when I heard Itsuki talking.

    I think I agree that the young Cal voice had an stressed quality to it but I thought it was pretty in-character. I think it’s pretty challenging to play two such unbelievably varying sides to the same character. Cal’s physical and character transformation in only 2 years is almost unbelievable. Was she also trying to portray a foreigner (ie. non-japanese) speaking Japanese? I’m glad they didn’t make Cal speak english though. ^^ (*remembering certain painful scenes from Black Lagoon*)

  9. Mentar says:

    Actually, in the Cal ending (which certainly is happier than the Ein ending chosen here) Elen isn’t mortally wounded by the Zahlenschwestern (who were taken care of by Reiji and Cal), but from the Godoh group, when she was covering Cal/Reiji’s retreat. The reason why this ending is happier is simple: Cal’s death is incredibly tragic, she ultimately self-destructed. It accomplished nothing, and only results in loss and grief. Elen’s death in Cal’s ending on the other hand is victorious: She managed to protect the one she loved until he was safe. Her death accomplished something, and she goes out a heroine.

    Choosing the canonic Elen path underlines the main motif of Phantom: The Underworld is cruel, terrible and nasty. You’ll only find death and heartbreak there. And I’m glad that they managed to preserve all the impact from the game and did NOT go for some happy-fluffier harem ending.

  10. Reltair says:

    If Reiji is so good, why doesn’t he just shoot the pistol out of Cal’s hand? =/

  11. jho says:

    I’m totally with Mentar. After Reiji and Elen both survived what seemed sure deaths, even with the dark undertones of this series, I thought that all the introduced protagonists would survive. I was totally blown away by this episode. It was one of the best episodes I’ve watched in a very long time, and it was precisely because the creators did not shy away from tragedy (which is what made Naruto such an amazing shonan manga with the deaths of Asuma & Jiraiya, and likewise what made it so lame when it chose a dbz do-over when Pain gave the village’s lives back).

  12. z says:

    The whole episode felt methodical and almost pre-determined yet was still very compelling to watch. Reiji/Cal’s (shared?) vision prior to the duel was especially powerful.

    Elen character has had the most lasting depth for me and in light of the way they represented her this episode (and how the series opens) I think the creators have turned the series into something of a character study of her.

  13. meow says:

    Mentar, you make a really good point about Cal’s death being an illustration of the dark and cruel nature of the mafia underworld. However, I still come away with a strong feeling that this is just not the best way to resolve Cal’s situation. Rewatch episode 16. Cal should have meant alot to Reiji. There had to have been some way to save her. It just seems too cruel a twist of fate for a kid like Cal to fall into Scythe’s hands in the first place, only to be moulded as a tool to torment Reiji and to have Reiji take her out so easily. Right according to Scythe’s plan – which just sucks. I felt that Reiji gave up too soon.

    I also disagree with your position that Ein’s death seems more heroic, by comparison. Ein was a powerful combatant with incredible survival abilities. She took a chest shot close to the heart and dropped into the water and still survived. She survived for a very long time after Lizzie shot her too, and I believe, would have eventually treated herself even if Reiji hadn’t shown up again afterwards. To me, it felt like she let herself get taken out of the picture to give room for Reiji to be with Cal, sacrificing her own future and happiness and dreams to find her home for Reiji’s sake. Worse, Reiji and Cal go back to a life of bloodshed, with an uncertain future.

    And of course, what sucks worse in both endings, is that although Scythe gets his comeuppance, Inferno itself, under McGuire, remains. Even in Ein’s ending, did Reiji and Ein really get away and live happily ever after?
    Or did McGuire eventually take them out, just to tie up loose ends?

    An alternate ending doesn’t necessarily have to be a haremy cute and fluffy. An alternate Ein ending for me would be one where Cal goes back to her old personality, makes peace with Reiji, parts from him and maybe finds another life for herself. She’s a genius at fixing things. She could have been an MIT engineer or a bike mechanic/racer. Or someone who could go back to the slums where she came from and look after other kids like how she used to be, defending them from gangsters. It fits her gunslinger duelist style of killing better than that of an assassin anyway. Too unbelievably happy for your stomach? Think of that scene in the OP, where her cold assassin facade breaks and she sticks out her tongue at the little girl in the lift. Where the heck did that come from?

  14. meow says:

    Sorry. I guess it just winds down to this game being Phantom of Inferno. It isn’t really meant to have happy endings – just like Noir. Never mind. ^^

  15. Mentar says:

    Yep, too unbelievably fluffy-happy. Sorry, I don’t think that these kind of endings would have been satisfactory and fitting for the show. McGuire – sorry, but does anyone seriously care? He’s been a rational underworld boss without true malice.

    In the Cal ending, she and Reiji turn into bounty hunters Bonnie&Clyde style. They’re clearly enjoying themselves, so I have no qualms with it at all. That’s something entirely different to what they are and do now.

    Elen didn’t die on purpose, lord no. Rewatch the ending. She said that in the end, she realized that she DID love Reiji too, after all, and thus learned to hate Cal a bit – but then again, Reiji chose her, so shikata ga nai. She achieved her main goal, which was to keep Reiji alive and protect him, which gives much more a feeling of accomplishment than Cal’s death. I’m sure we should be able to agree on at least that.

  16. someguy says:

    I’d agree with, an alternate ending doesn’t necessarily have to be a haremy cute and fluffy. Excellent episode, but..

    There was not just one way that reiji could of acted. He made a decision to kill Cal. Yes he did care for her and will carry all her hate and Sadness, but he ‘never gave thought’ to act in a way that would benefit cal so she could live. I also felt that Reiji gave up too soon.

    The best way to resolve Cal’s situation for her own sake was not death (imo)Like we saw when reiji shot Cal. Cal reverted even more into her old self. She is able to change. And death from either Reiji or Cal is not the only way for Cal to change.

    Yes I do want to see an ending to show that the underworld is a cruel terrible place. But this.. while done well doesn’t fit right. Also it has destroyed my hope in Reiji character being a kind person who try’s for the best situation. He had a clear head unlike Cal but yet it ended like this.

    I wonder if it really will fully follow the VN to the end, maybe they might include some twists or deaths..

  17. psgels psgels says:

    I think that some of you are forgetting that Reiji is supposed to be a cold-blooded assassin, rather than your average high school student. Yes, he does have good intentions, but remember how he so mercilessly killed off these innocent people in the first arc? Unlike most other people, killing feels much more natural to him, which is probably why he ended up chosing to kill Cal, rather than what any regular person would try to do and talk things out.

  18. Snowolf says:

    I think I kind of knew Cal was going to die in the end, but to die from Reiji’s own hands-damn. That was something I didn’t see coming.

    BTW- this soundtrack is going to be hugely long. They STILL came up with new tracks, and this is the second to last episode. Jeez. But it’s good music.

    I’m glad Cal forgave Reiji. In the end, she was just some pent up teenager who wanted to let her feelings of loneliness and anger toward someone she loved, and poor Reiji was in the way. What bothered me the most was how she looked so much older and said to Reiji that they could be together- SHE WAS LIKE, UM, SEVEN WHEN HE TUTORED HER. So…that was kind of wierd. But overall, this show has been great, and I can’t wait to see what the season finale brings us.

    I must say that TM 8.0 brings up serious competition. That show hit me in the heart hard like no other show has done before. And that’s really good, for someone like me. So I’m curious to see which will be your number one for the season. :D

  19. NIck says:

    Wow when Cal died I was like DANG Reiji, I hope someone strikes you right in the crotch. I hope Cal pulls an Elen and comes back for more, perhaps she could put Scythe master in an apartment and blow em up, hey he did blow up her and Reiji’s place.

  20. Blue says:

    This really sucks, I wasn’t able to get emotionally or feel AT ALL for Cal after the time skip. The change just bothered me waay to much and spent most of my time trying to think of how someo 14year old? Can become like that in 2 years. Just bothered me

  21. windy says:

    I really liked this episode but I completely agree with what meow said. I also felt that Cal’s death could be avoided somehow. In one shot Reiji ended her life like that, it is nearly unbelievable, when I saw this I got the impression she let him kill her. It was such a tragical death, experiencing so many griefs in her life, I didn’t want to see her dying like that, too cruel and heartless! But well, nevertheless, her death showed us the despicable reality of the mafia underworld and what sort of tragedy their actions could bring about. And what a sorrow! But still, Reiji shouldn’t have! I even would have prefered him to let Cal kill him. But also couldn’t bring myself to imagine Cal’s becoming one again the innocent person she was before : too many uneraisable sins committed. It’s hard to picture her starting a life from scratch.

  22. windy says:

    By the way, can we find the translated version of the visual novel Phantom? I’ve searched for it everywhere but it doesn’t seem to have been released anywhere else besides Japan nor has it been translated yet. So I was wondering how could some of you know about the multiple choices the game can display?

  23. UmbrellaMan says:

    I agree that Cal’s death was tragic and cruel, but the question is would Cal have learned to change her ways? Unlike Ein, she was twisted by hate and jealousy. Would Reiji just talking to her for 10 min have completely erased all her feelings towards him and the world. Not that she couldn’t have eventually gotten “better” (with some serious therapy), but I don’t see it happening in an instant. Anger is a powerful emotion.

  24. Camario says:

    @windy: Phantom of Inferno was officially translated and released in English by the now defunct Hirameki International. Try to do a more comprehensive search.

    The company itself doesn’t exist anymore, unfortunately, but they did legally sell the game a few years ago and some of us have bought it. This isn’t really too hard to confirm.

    @UmbrellaMan: If they had gone with the Cal ending, I think that’s Reiji’s actions there would speak volumes to her.

  25. Snowolf says:

    For future reference guys, when talking about the game, and the “possible endings” that might occur- PLEASE PUT SPOILER MARKS. There are many of us who do not like being spoiled, especially at the very end of the show. I know a couple of you guys did this, but a lot of you didn’t, so just remember next time to do it. :D

    Thanks.

  26. Camario says:

    I would agree with that point, but keep in mind that talking about endings that can’t possibly occur anymore (the Cal ending, for example) and about events that have already happened in this same episode (25) shouldn’t really be considered a spoiler.

    Unless you mean not mentioning spoilers in the very first line to prevent them from showing up unmarked in the Recent Comments section over there in the corner, which is something I can also understand.

  27. Troyen says:

    While its true that endings which can’t occur anymore aren’t really spoilers and are probably okay, a few comments have slipped in some unmarked spoilers about the likely ending for the anime. :(

  28. windy says:

    Thanks Camario. I haven’t found it yet but maybe it will be on sales again one of these times.

  29. windy says:

    I’ve found the game and played two different routes : Claudia’s ( the ending made a huge impact on me!) and Cal’s routes. I just loved the game even better than the anime, the main characters’ personalities were better expressed through their reported feelings, thoughts and most of all their facial expressions and tone of voice. Even if overall, the series did manage to stick to the dark and gloomy mood of the VN, the only flaw that I found in this series is that some of the characters are lacking something that made them so extraordinary and touching in the game. Cal’s character when she just met Reiji wasn’t so calm and steady : she was kinda mischievous ( I particularly liked when she joked about Reiji being older than herself! Or when she was so reluctant to let Reiji buy her new stuff )and full of energy, talked non-stop and her character stood out from the very beginning, in the series, I just found her some interest after nurtured those feelings of revenge toward Reiji and so forth. Before that she was just a simple girl among so many others, that’s a pity! In the VN she starts being a particular character at the moment she starts speaking to Reiji. Claudia also went through some changes, her soft voice and eyes devoid of any guilt in the VN made her seem so innocent and nice, just as a mask concealing her own true self, her own soul drown in sins( though it’s never said in the series, it was her who killed Romero, her own brother!). But on the whole, I think this anime adaptation was very close to its original source. Reiji and Elen are the characters that experienced the less changes and Cal’s grown-up version was really close to the original, it’s just that in the series the change in her behaviour clashed too much with her prior behavior, whereas in the game , well, she was so mischievous a child that her transformation wasn’t so wierd!

  30. windy says:

    I meant above: when Cal ” joked about Reiji being younger than herself”, I accidently wrote ” older”, gomen!

  31. someguy says:

    Nice points windy :) They they did portray Cal a little different, I still think that Cal’s character before the timeskip in the anime was Great. A bit different but still I didn’t mind how they portrayed her.

    Though she is more mischievous she was also more innocent in the VN, I think in the anime they tried to make her a little bit more grown up. In the VN she always asked Reiji ‘ are you mad?’

    Also Reiji’s character was a little different in Chapter 2, he is more of a nice guy towards Cal and is more thoughtfull in the anime the whole time, while in the VN he is kind but at times was also more cold, like when he was traing Cal to shoot in the VN he was more forcefull in his words. While in the anime he was more asking Cal.

    Still I find it strange that in Chapter 2 anime Reiji comes across as more thoughfull (alot more kind) like with the pocket watch. In the VN Reiji Bought it on the spot when Cal was saying she liked it. While in the anime Reiji saw Cal looking at it and Bought it without her noticing and gave it to her later.

    Which in the anime makes it even harder to think that Reiji didn’t notice anything or help Cal at all after the timeskip in the anime. And shot to kill her before any other type of actions.

    Agree that the VN is alot better. Though the anime did a good job. Overall is wasn’t as good. If I want to watch/read the Phantom story I would reconmand playing through the VN, and then you might want to watch the anime.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
Anonymous670441
Gente - Ristorante no Hitobito
Kaiser Eoghan
If anything its the hate I have for certain characters that makes it more effective.
Kaiser Eoghan
The obsessional level of attachment is just uncomfortable to me, I don't want to get THAT attached to a non-real character.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its literally just a case of "Okay lets look at this picture of this character, she looks interesting, no feelings or expression from me, apply this fetish, fap, get release, go home. "
Kaiser Eoghan
Or drooling/dribbling/heavy breathing/grinning over the characters. I abhor alot of the anime girls I find attractive or am indifferent, even when looking at ecchi/hentai drawings I'm straight and clinical with it.
Kaiser Eoghan
I mean to each their own. But I really hate the level of emotion/devotion to moe/finding the characters attractive. Such as celebrating their birthdays, going on about how cute/hot they are, how important it is that they're virgins. Or not being being self-aware of how irritating the characters are.
Lenlo
Anime hipster is pretty accurate. His general treatment of the current state of anime is annoying, as is his obsession with moe. Maybe its cause I cant stand moe most of the time, but it bugs me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: Essentially my brothers view on digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I don't usually feel the need to correct errors in your reviews as the errors are generally un-important, but I think you meant to say apprentices rather than appearences in the Rakugo review, just bringing that up as it felt like kind of a throw off.
AidanAK47
Which is kinda like saying Madoka wasn't a magical girl deconstruction because Sailor Moon and Nanoha had dark elements too.
AidanAK47
Went and read the reddit comments on it and seems I was right on the money.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, He's basically a anime hipster. For example, I saw a thumbnail of his which had Saitama on it and below it "Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?" and I thought "Okay, he's going to go on about how OPM isn't subversive and then list a bunch of arbitrary examples in an attempt to redefine what is actually subversive"
Lenlo
I have lots of issues with Digibro. Dude has some good points, but other very horrible ones. Some issues he feels strongly about and gets kinda biased on imo.
Anonymous669202
acca looks visually interesting, and I personally really dig this kind of show, but it seems that it's definitely not for everyone
AidanAK47
Time to live up to my word. Four posts incoming.
AidanAK47
Man, Little witch Academia was so good. I disagree with the whole Digibro thing about being able to recognise a great show in it's first episode but watching this makes me think that this really is going to be something special.
AidanAK47
Alright, gonna put in effort today and have 3 or 4 first impressions posts done. That should knock out near half the season.
Kaiser Eoghan
Had a flip through handshakers. Garish is the word I'd use to describe it visually, it takes you out of the show.
Topgavin
ASuperMario From the first minute I can already tell it's by the same people that made K. Those colour filters and the extremely jarring/obvious city CGI is unmistakable.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, literally makes my hands shaking. It's an abosolute mess. Highly recommended to check it out because it's so terrible it's great to watch
Vonter212
Yeah, and it's also a literal woman in refrigerator plot device, since that the thing that pushes the story forward.
Masky
I'd say that having to hide your sister's body in fridge would count as daaaaaaark and edgy, but when the body is wearing only underwear, and for some reason main character put metal things in fridge to keep body standing(I guess to not knock fridge open from inside?) I think it goes to "exploitation" you are talking about
Vonter212
@Masky - Did someone said doing dark things for drama? That's the bread and butter to get despair. Unless it's for the sake of perversion. Then it's just exploitation.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Masky: His other works dead tube and scumbag go further in the unhinged regard.
Masky
*relies on easy "let's do [x dark thing] for drama!" thing
Masky
Geez, Mayonaka no X Giten is fricking disturbing/disgusting ._. I'm pretty sure that writing relies on e, but I can't help but think mangaka is trying to make corpses sexy.
SuperMario
I found Onihei to be quite good, actually one of the most solid new episode I watched this new season. Guys, check them out
Vonter
I just hope it doesn't fall into the same misstep Kabaneri or Inuyasha or Bleach fall by making a villain so over the top that it crossed the line of not having a satisfying downfall.
Anonymous657941
@Vonter I think they just moved on. I lost interest rather quickly and I guess even the fans did that at some point, like with some other long-running series. There is much more new and more direct "fujo" stuff out there, many of them probably switched. Don't know what happens in the manga but maybe the story got worse or contained things some people didn't like.
Vonter
January will be loli dictator month (for me) :p. World Conquest Zvezda Plot, Youjo Senki: Saga of Tanya the Evil (new), Seraph of the End. For some reason I stumble into three curious series with little power hungry girls. If I can ask, why did Owari Seraph's hype died, I remember back it was mentioned more often. It still has the fujoshi fanart but still, I don't see people bringing it up.
SuperMario
@CATski: well, if you didn't like its first 3 episodes I dont think the rest gonna change your mind. Have you finished Erased then? How did you like it?
SuperMario
But I understand it's difficult to speak in front of camera, get some time to get used to it
SuperMario
@kaiser: I won't commend on poem as I'm terrible at it myself but younneed to work more on presentation Kaiser. Small little things like looking directly at the camera or say "thanks for listening" in the end can connect you to the audience better
Anonymous657071
Ok. I'll give the thing another chance. *clicks torrent* XD. CATski.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Topgavin: You might like centaur no nanami if you like demi-chan.
Kaiser Eoghan
Damn...repeated myself =<
Kaiser Eoghan
There are these things called slam sessions done in bars where people get up and read out stuff in front of a crowd and read stuff out. Actually watching rakugo made me think about practicing for that kind of thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: the video I did was of me reading out a short piece of writing I did, a poem. lol I uploaded it to the wrong youtube account too I just realized =P
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBZ2hBDBYs&t=11s
I"] was recording this from my mothers laptops inbuilt cam while reading off my desktop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I think it's a good idea for you to try out reviewing movies/stuffs in youtube channel. I'll be very interesting to listen to them
SuperMario
@Topgavin: Agree. Demi-chan was so charming. Definately one of my favorite so far this new season
Topgavin
Demi-chan's first episode was good. Like, really really good. That blonde-haired girl was hilarious, the teacher-student relationship between the MC and the girls is really interesting and the social/practical problems the demi's face make it look like my favorite show so far.
CATski
Ah... ok. Is it really that good or it's just one of those "artsy" animes that tend to get overrated by their ardent fans? I didnt find the rakugo bit interesting.... probably the weakest aspect of the show for me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Why did I read that chapter. Why did I do that to myself.
Kaiser Eoghan
Admittedly yes the premise is not for everyone, but if you stick with it, the flashback arc had some good character work in there.
CATski
Rakugo has a season 2? I watched ep 1 - 3 of season 1 then promptly deleted it. The loud "yankee" dude was annoying. And the anime was boring.
Kaiser Eoghan
Oh man, I've been thinking lately of trying to start some kind of youtube channel. I did a few trial run videos. Its much much harder than it looks, didn't realize how nervy being in front of a video camera was.
Kaiser Eoghan
*a declining art and rakygo halls are closing down
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