Posted by psgels on 18 September 2009 with categories: Phantom



Oh boy. It took two calm before the storm episodes to get here, but damn. This was such an awesome episode. The style it was told in was completely different from what I expected, but this episode was SO WORTH THE WAIT. It really reminded me why, despite Tokyo Magnitude, this is my favourite series of the past half year.

With finales like this one, you really expect something over the top: really fast pacing, an epic gunfight or a very long action scene or something. Instead, this episode just played out very sloooowly. The background music was calm and quiet, and instead it very slowly moved to the inevitable: Cal’s death. It was really focused at getting the best out of the characters. Instead, Ein was delivering on the action, while Reiji and Cal’s fight ended in just one shot. The two of them are great marksmen, so it would indeed have been strange if the gunfight would have lasted any longer.

Cal’s eventual motive, to just be noticed, was a nice twist at the end. In the end, the Scythe Master managed to manipulate her, but not to the point at which she would hate Reiji with passion, but rather that she desperately wanted to be noticed by him, instead of Ein. Because of those talks from Scythe Master, she didn’t get convinced that Reiji was a horrible person, but rather she fully believed that Reiji didn’t care about her. That makes all her actions even more irrational than they already were, but I believe that that’s the point this series is trying to make: while we would like to make the best decision 100% of the time, those pesky emotions and especially love tend to get in the way a lot.

The next episode should prove to be an action-packed finale, at this point, it’s easy to think of what to expect. At this point, I can see no way in which the creators are ever going to be able to screw this up anymore. I personally suspect that the creators are going for an ending similar to El Cazador’s: simple, but effective.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

31 Responses

  1. ZACK says:

    Damn! the subs for taking forever and yeah Phantom is awesome redefined!
    ANIME OF THE YEAR!

  2. meow says:

    Awesome, I guess…but damn I’m bummed out now. I knew this was going to happen but…*sigh*. It’s such a bummer that Reiji couldn’t save Cal from Scythe. It’s like she was doomed the minute she fell into his hands. Now I remember why I didn’t want to play this game.

  3. ssj4jw says:

    I thought there were multiple endings in the game.

  4. Perrin4869 says:

    Hm… I didn’t watch the episode yet, I’m waiting for the subs, but it sounds like the outcome is better than I expected… Still not enough to redeem it in my book though. But I guess I’ll save all the bashing and trolling for your review next week :P

  5. meow says:

    Yep, but most, if not all are pretty tragic – with most of the other heroines dying.

    *SPOILERS* Cal’s route has Elen fatally wounded by the Number Sisters. Cal and Reiji survive but wind up becoming assassins again. In Claudia’s, either Reiji kills Claudia to save himself from Inferno or he lets himself get killed by Claudia to let her escape. Forever separated by death. Mio’s has the most survivors cos both Ein and Cal make it out for the moment but Reiji separates from Mio to protect her while he goes to war against the Godoh group and Cal retains her grudge against Reiji. Not a good conclusion imho. Elen’s ending is probably the happiest with a proper conclusion.

    I thought it might have been better if Reiji had somehow disarmed Cal – shooting for her gun arm instead of a fatal point. Perhaps it’s not possible against a gunfighter of Cal’s calibre but still…

    I was thinking of maybe Reiji not resisting at all but from info about the Phantom Integration ending, apparently, if Reiji hesitates – Cal WILL actually kill him – much like she how she killed Lizzie – and wind up wondering why Reiji didn’t shoot her. Very sad.

  6. Camario says:

    There wasn’t really much doubt about what ending they would most likely choose, I think, just arguing over details.

    I’m glad that they seemed to have pulled it off well enough, though I’ll still have to wait for the translation.

    On a purely personal level I’d have appreciated a Cal ending more, even considering what that implied as meow wrote above, but I don’t dislike going with the Ein route either. That’s the good thing about games with multiple endings, you don’t have to like just one.

    Nevertheless, the anime has been a very good adaptation, all things considered. Everything else is going to be pretty much on autopilot now, I’d hope.

  7. hashi says:

    An excellent episode of an excellent show. My current infatuation with Takagaki Ayahi as a seiyuu makes me an Ein fan, but in any case, I found Cal an unsatisfying mate for Reiji: Sawashiro Miyuki’s voicing of the young Cal always gave me the feeling there was something wrong with her, a sort of desperate artificiality. Really great seiyuu work from Miyukicchi there. Not that her work as the older Cal wasn’t great, too. There is a triumvirate of top female seiyuus here: Koshimizu Ami as Mio was at least as good as the other two. As a seiyuu fan, this show is heaven for me. Irino Miyu proved something to me, too.

  8. meow says:

    Haha. Speaking of seiyuu, did Cal’s seiyuu do a side role in episode 10 of Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 as Yuuki’s school friend Itsuki-kun? There was a ring of familiarity when I heard Itsuki talking.

    I think I agree that the young Cal voice had an stressed quality to it but I thought it was pretty in-character. I think it’s pretty challenging to play two such unbelievably varying sides to the same character. Cal’s physical and character transformation in only 2 years is almost unbelievable. Was she also trying to portray a foreigner (ie. non-japanese) speaking Japanese? I’m glad they didn’t make Cal speak english though. ^^ (*remembering certain painful scenes from Black Lagoon*)

  9. Mentar says:

    Actually, in the Cal ending (which certainly is happier than the Ein ending chosen here) Elen isn’t mortally wounded by the Zahlenschwestern (who were taken care of by Reiji and Cal), but from the Godoh group, when she was covering Cal/Reiji’s retreat. The reason why this ending is happier is simple: Cal’s death is incredibly tragic, she ultimately self-destructed. It accomplished nothing, and only results in loss and grief. Elen’s death in Cal’s ending on the other hand is victorious: She managed to protect the one she loved until he was safe. Her death accomplished something, and she goes out a heroine.

    Choosing the canonic Elen path underlines the main motif of Phantom: The Underworld is cruel, terrible and nasty. You’ll only find death and heartbreak there. And I’m glad that they managed to preserve all the impact from the game and did NOT go for some happy-fluffier harem ending.

  10. Reltair says:

    If Reiji is so good, why doesn’t he just shoot the pistol out of Cal’s hand? =/

  11. jho says:

    I’m totally with Mentar. After Reiji and Elen both survived what seemed sure deaths, even with the dark undertones of this series, I thought that all the introduced protagonists would survive. I was totally blown away by this episode. It was one of the best episodes I’ve watched in a very long time, and it was precisely because the creators did not shy away from tragedy (which is what made Naruto such an amazing shonan manga with the deaths of Asuma & Jiraiya, and likewise what made it so lame when it chose a dbz do-over when Pain gave the village’s lives back).

  12. z says:

    The whole episode felt methodical and almost pre-determined yet was still very compelling to watch. Reiji/Cal’s (shared?) vision prior to the duel was especially powerful.

    Elen character has had the most lasting depth for me and in light of the way they represented her this episode (and how the series opens) I think the creators have turned the series into something of a character study of her.

  13. meow says:

    Mentar, you make a really good point about Cal’s death being an illustration of the dark and cruel nature of the mafia underworld. However, I still come away with a strong feeling that this is just not the best way to resolve Cal’s situation. Rewatch episode 16. Cal should have meant alot to Reiji. There had to have been some way to save her. It just seems too cruel a twist of fate for a kid like Cal to fall into Scythe’s hands in the first place, only to be moulded as a tool to torment Reiji and to have Reiji take her out so easily. Right according to Scythe’s plan – which just sucks. I felt that Reiji gave up too soon.

    I also disagree with your position that Ein’s death seems more heroic, by comparison. Ein was a powerful combatant with incredible survival abilities. She took a chest shot close to the heart and dropped into the water and still survived. She survived for a very long time after Lizzie shot her too, and I believe, would have eventually treated herself even if Reiji hadn’t shown up again afterwards. To me, it felt like she let herself get taken out of the picture to give room for Reiji to be with Cal, sacrificing her own future and happiness and dreams to find her home for Reiji’s sake. Worse, Reiji and Cal go back to a life of bloodshed, with an uncertain future.

    And of course, what sucks worse in both endings, is that although Scythe gets his comeuppance, Inferno itself, under McGuire, remains. Even in Ein’s ending, did Reiji and Ein really get away and live happily ever after?
    Or did McGuire eventually take them out, just to tie up loose ends?

    An alternate ending doesn’t necessarily have to be a haremy cute and fluffy. An alternate Ein ending for me would be one where Cal goes back to her old personality, makes peace with Reiji, parts from him and maybe finds another life for herself. She’s a genius at fixing things. She could have been an MIT engineer or a bike mechanic/racer. Or someone who could go back to the slums where she came from and look after other kids like how she used to be, defending them from gangsters. It fits her gunslinger duelist style of killing better than that of an assassin anyway. Too unbelievably happy for your stomach? Think of that scene in the OP, where her cold assassin facade breaks and she sticks out her tongue at the little girl in the lift. Where the heck did that come from?

  14. meow says:

    Sorry. I guess it just winds down to this game being Phantom of Inferno. It isn’t really meant to have happy endings – just like Noir. Never mind. ^^

  15. Mentar says:

    Yep, too unbelievably fluffy-happy. Sorry, I don’t think that these kind of endings would have been satisfactory and fitting for the show. McGuire – sorry, but does anyone seriously care? He’s been a rational underworld boss without true malice.

    In the Cal ending, she and Reiji turn into bounty hunters Bonnie&Clyde style. They’re clearly enjoying themselves, so I have no qualms with it at all. That’s something entirely different to what they are and do now.

    Elen didn’t die on purpose, lord no. Rewatch the ending. She said that in the end, she realized that she DID love Reiji too, after all, and thus learned to hate Cal a bit – but then again, Reiji chose her, so shikata ga nai. She achieved her main goal, which was to keep Reiji alive and protect him, which gives much more a feeling of accomplishment than Cal’s death. I’m sure we should be able to agree on at least that.

  16. someguy says:

    I’d agree with, an alternate ending doesn’t necessarily have to be a haremy cute and fluffy. Excellent episode, but..

    There was not just one way that reiji could of acted. He made a decision to kill Cal. Yes he did care for her and will carry all her hate and Sadness, but he ‘never gave thought’ to act in a way that would benefit cal so she could live. I also felt that Reiji gave up too soon.

    The best way to resolve Cal’s situation for her own sake was not death (imo)Like we saw when reiji shot Cal. Cal reverted even more into her old self. She is able to change. And death from either Reiji or Cal is not the only way for Cal to change.

    Yes I do want to see an ending to show that the underworld is a cruel terrible place. But this.. while done well doesn’t fit right. Also it has destroyed my hope in Reiji character being a kind person who try’s for the best situation. He had a clear head unlike Cal but yet it ended like this.

    I wonder if it really will fully follow the VN to the end, maybe they might include some twists or deaths..

  17. psgels psgels says:

    I think that some of you are forgetting that Reiji is supposed to be a cold-blooded assassin, rather than your average high school student. Yes, he does have good intentions, but remember how he so mercilessly killed off these innocent people in the first arc? Unlike most other people, killing feels much more natural to him, which is probably why he ended up chosing to kill Cal, rather than what any regular person would try to do and talk things out.

  18. Snowolf says:

    I think I kind of knew Cal was going to die in the end, but to die from Reiji’s own hands-damn. That was something I didn’t see coming.

    BTW- this soundtrack is going to be hugely long. They STILL came up with new tracks, and this is the second to last episode. Jeez. But it’s good music.

    I’m glad Cal forgave Reiji. In the end, she was just some pent up teenager who wanted to let her feelings of loneliness and anger toward someone she loved, and poor Reiji was in the way. What bothered me the most was how she looked so much older and said to Reiji that they could be together- SHE WAS LIKE, UM, SEVEN WHEN HE TUTORED HER. So…that was kind of wierd. But overall, this show has been great, and I can’t wait to see what the season finale brings us.

    I must say that TM 8.0 brings up serious competition. That show hit me in the heart hard like no other show has done before. And that’s really good, for someone like me. So I’m curious to see which will be your number one for the season. :D

  19. NIck says:

    Wow when Cal died I was like DANG Reiji, I hope someone strikes you right in the crotch. I hope Cal pulls an Elen and comes back for more, perhaps she could put Scythe master in an apartment and blow em up, hey he did blow up her and Reiji’s place.

  20. Blue says:

    This really sucks, I wasn’t able to get emotionally or feel AT ALL for Cal after the time skip. The change just bothered me waay to much and spent most of my time trying to think of how someo 14year old? Can become like that in 2 years. Just bothered me

  21. windy says:

    I really liked this episode but I completely agree with what meow said. I also felt that Cal’s death could be avoided somehow. In one shot Reiji ended her life like that, it is nearly unbelievable, when I saw this I got the impression she let him kill her. It was such a tragical death, experiencing so many griefs in her life, I didn’t want to see her dying like that, too cruel and heartless! But well, nevertheless, her death showed us the despicable reality of the mafia underworld and what sort of tragedy their actions could bring about. And what a sorrow! But still, Reiji shouldn’t have! I even would have prefered him to let Cal kill him. But also couldn’t bring myself to imagine Cal’s becoming one again the innocent person she was before : too many uneraisable sins committed. It’s hard to picture her starting a life from scratch.

  22. windy says:

    By the way, can we find the translated version of the visual novel Phantom? I’ve searched for it everywhere but it doesn’t seem to have been released anywhere else besides Japan nor has it been translated yet. So I was wondering how could some of you know about the multiple choices the game can display?

  23. UmbrellaMan says:

    I agree that Cal’s death was tragic and cruel, but the question is would Cal have learned to change her ways? Unlike Ein, she was twisted by hate and jealousy. Would Reiji just talking to her for 10 min have completely erased all her feelings towards him and the world. Not that she couldn’t have eventually gotten “better” (with some serious therapy), but I don’t see it happening in an instant. Anger is a powerful emotion.

  24. Camario says:

    @windy: Phantom of Inferno was officially translated and released in English by the now defunct Hirameki International. Try to do a more comprehensive search.

    The company itself doesn’t exist anymore, unfortunately, but they did legally sell the game a few years ago and some of us have bought it. This isn’t really too hard to confirm.

    @UmbrellaMan: If they had gone with the Cal ending, I think that’s Reiji’s actions there would speak volumes to her.

  25. Snowolf says:

    For future reference guys, when talking about the game, and the “possible endings” that might occur- PLEASE PUT SPOILER MARKS. There are many of us who do not like being spoiled, especially at the very end of the show. I know a couple of you guys did this, but a lot of you didn’t, so just remember next time to do it. :D

    Thanks.

  26. Camario says:

    I would agree with that point, but keep in mind that talking about endings that can’t possibly occur anymore (the Cal ending, for example) and about events that have already happened in this same episode (25) shouldn’t really be considered a spoiler.

    Unless you mean not mentioning spoilers in the very first line to prevent them from showing up unmarked in the Recent Comments section over there in the corner, which is something I can also understand.

  27. Troyen says:

    While its true that endings which can’t occur anymore aren’t really spoilers and are probably okay, a few comments have slipped in some unmarked spoilers about the likely ending for the anime. :(

  28. windy says:

    Thanks Camario. I haven’t found it yet but maybe it will be on sales again one of these times.

  29. windy says:

    I’ve found the game and played two different routes : Claudia’s ( the ending made a huge impact on me!) and Cal’s routes. I just loved the game even better than the anime, the main characters’ personalities were better expressed through their reported feelings, thoughts and most of all their facial expressions and tone of voice. Even if overall, the series did manage to stick to the dark and gloomy mood of the VN, the only flaw that I found in this series is that some of the characters are lacking something that made them so extraordinary and touching in the game. Cal’s character when she just met Reiji wasn’t so calm and steady : she was kinda mischievous ( I particularly liked when she joked about Reiji being older than herself! Or when she was so reluctant to let Reiji buy her new stuff )and full of energy, talked non-stop and her character stood out from the very beginning, in the series, I just found her some interest after nurtured those feelings of revenge toward Reiji and so forth. Before that she was just a simple girl among so many others, that’s a pity! In the VN she starts being a particular character at the moment she starts speaking to Reiji. Claudia also went through some changes, her soft voice and eyes devoid of any guilt in the VN made her seem so innocent and nice, just as a mask concealing her own true self, her own soul drown in sins( though it’s never said in the series, it was her who killed Romero, her own brother!). But on the whole, I think this anime adaptation was very close to its original source. Reiji and Elen are the characters that experienced the less changes and Cal’s grown-up version was really close to the original, it’s just that in the series the change in her behaviour clashed too much with her prior behavior, whereas in the game , well, she was so mischievous a child that her transformation wasn’t so wierd!

  30. windy says:

    I meant above: when Cal ” joked about Reiji being younger than herself”, I accidently wrote ” older”, gomen!

  31. someguy says:

    Nice points windy :) They they did portray Cal a little different, I still think that Cal’s character before the timeskip in the anime was Great. A bit different but still I didn’t mind how they portrayed her.

    Though she is more mischievous she was also more innocent in the VN, I think in the anime they tried to make her a little bit more grown up. In the VN she always asked Reiji ‘ are you mad?’

    Also Reiji’s character was a little different in Chapter 2, he is more of a nice guy towards Cal and is more thoughtfull in the anime the whole time, while in the VN he is kind but at times was also more cold, like when he was traing Cal to shoot in the VN he was more forcefull in his words. While in the anime he was more asking Cal.

    Still I find it strange that in Chapter 2 anime Reiji comes across as more thoughfull (alot more kind) like with the pocket watch. In the VN Reiji Bought it on the spot when Cal was saying she liked it. While in the anime Reiji saw Cal looking at it and Bought it without her noticing and gave it to her later.

    Which in the anime makes it even harder to think that Reiji didn’t notice anything or help Cal at all after the timeskip in the anime. And shot to kill her before any other type of actions.

    Agree that the VN is alot better. Though the anime did a good job. Overall is wasn’t as good. If I want to watch/read the Phantom story I would reconmand playing through the VN, and then you might want to watch the anime.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
silver
I actually have only watched one or two episodes of this season of 3-gatsu, but its rising scores and rave reviews are making me really excited! I've only put it off because it's somewhat emotionally tiring for me
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Well, after the first season of 3-gatsu ended, I did skim ahead to this bullying arc so I already know this is going to be powerful, yet the anime still wow me over and over
Anonymous1637770
Also it can be tricky selecting a season sequel since some old series had like 50 to 100 episodes, what counted as a season then?
Anonymous1637770
@Kaiser-Eoghan - It's more common in videogames (especially Capcom) than in other mediums. Megaman 2, RE 2, Street Fighter 2, Dino Crisis 2, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, etc.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually in a rarity, a sequel season is better than the first.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which makes my enjoyment of sangatsu so strange.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I generally do not like game/sports orientated shows.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That you slightlySuper-erMario and superwooper!
Kaiser-Eoghan
And my reaction to the show is such, that I enjoyed it enough to make such a huge pot about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also I want Akari to be my mom and Hina is adorable without being annoyingly so and Kana Hanazawa is doing a good job voicing her.

And whoever said it is right, the op/ed songs are worth listening to, for once I’m not skipping them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
At this point it feels as if by the end of the series I’ll come off it thinking that I don’t want to say goodbye to these characters.
I don’t think as of just yet it complete lives up to honey and clovers legacy though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I never cared about Harunobu initially, but recent episodes have changed this.
Dull parts of the manga are easier to get through for me in the anime due to Shaft elevating the material with one of the better uses of their visual gimmicks.
Giving the series another chance, even though I won’t fully embrace the humour, it does now and then manage to make me laugh a little.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bullying arc centering on Hina and the shows treatment of it is better than most anime bullying stories and has provided the most emotionally rewarding aspect of the show.
Characters that are assholes like Kyouko’s boyfriend, Kyouko herself I’m finding somewhat more sympathetic and want to see more to their personal drama.
Kaiser-Eoghan
However I do genuinely think that the series does a good job of allowing dramatic moments to creep up on the viewer, that early scene of Hina crying over her mother, Rei’s family flashbacks, Akari’s concerns about Hina/the stuff with her dad, all the scenes with Kyouko do carry an effective and solid dramatic weight to them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel it starts very strong, making a great first impression, then kind of has these dull moments that make it sort of a slog at times to get through, unfortunately I have no interest in chess/shougi and no knowledge the show tries to give me is going to stick or allow me to embrace that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Through jumping back and forth between the anime and manga, I can say I have no caught up to where I will now watch March comes like a lion on a weekly basis.
Anonymous1636224
The blood of the innocent will flow without end, mmmmmm this is why I love Inuyashiki
Anonymous1636224
Mmmmmm the suffering of all those innocent people feeding his God boner, this is why I love Inuyashiki
Lenlo
Oh yeah, thats not a knock against it. Just noting they dont *need* much animation
SuperMario
Well, the nature of Mahoutsukai is slow-burned, so it makes sense they focus more on static, quiet moments
Lenlo
Was that blade 2022 thing supposed to be an example? Because I wasnt a fan. It was stylish sure, but difficult to follow.
Lenlo
Maho is a good looking show, I wouldnt call it a great animated show.
Lenlo
The issue for me is, theres just not alot being animated most of the time. Usually its a pretty slow moving anime, so most of its time is talking and still shots. It doesnt need alot of animation, so it doesnt have it.
Lenlo
@Niel, I think Mahoutsukai can have good animation when it wants to. Like the water viel in episode 10 looked good (Though im not sure how much of that was after effects)
Anonymous1635607
uhhh creepy
Anonymous1635589
the blood of the innocent will flow without end, mmmm this is why I love Inuyashiki so much
Amagi
I think the security is the same as here, it's just that Japanese people are less likely to rip stuff (correct me if I am wrong). It seems like ripped anime, manga and so on are basically always uploaded by Americans, Chinese people or someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was surprised heavens feel was camripped I thought security in japanese theatres was stronger.
Amagi
Yeah it's also screening in Germany, I will watch it in February, together with Heaven's Feel, Mutafukaz, Kimikoe and a few others.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*on Europa cinema
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nanoha new film to screen next February in the US, come in Europa license it for over here dammit....
Kaiser-Eoghan
Did have some down moments though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I guess contrasting Luke with his old self goes some way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Saw the preview screening of the new star wars, still feel the new trilogy stands inbetween the originals and prequels, fufills its duty as a *** star blockbuster , some genuinely hilarious high camp moments, awful tokenism, Snoke is a shit villain, but two scenes with Luke actually have a pathos to them and I liked the chase/action scenes when they happened. Nobody cares about the acting/dialogue
AidanAK47
But there are times when it goes way too far and you can barely make out what is even supposed to be happening. Or characters go so off model that they are unrecognizable. It can be immersion breaking. Much like uncanny CGI.
AidanAK47
@Niel, I do agree that it's annoying to see people complain about animation when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Like those inbetween frame screenshot people. But I will say I appreciate on model characters more so than chaotic movement. When the off model stuff suits the tone of the scene like that blade runner part, then it's fine.
niel
I also don't want to see someone imply visual=animation for the hundredth time. Are people really that ignorant of the technical/artistic aspect of the media they consumed?
niel
It just depends on what works best in given scene and the aesthetic they want to go for. People can complain all they want about off-model stuff, but if they really only want that the they won't be getting nearly as much of those impactful scenes as there are now. So many of the ways people complain about it is really irking to me.
niel
normal/low action scenes is different from being on-model during the action sequences and just the ones that need some extra impact in general. https://youtu.be/rrZk9sSgRyQ?t=6m45s
niel
But that depends on the situation though. And I'd argue that being consistent and on-model during
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter/Niello/Mario: Ideally I want it both ways, fluid animation AND consistent model visuals, all the while never sacrificing choreography.
SuperMario
But really, who am I to say. I'm the dude who prefer beautiful shot composition myself
SuperMario
The same can be said with Shinkai's movies since he always prefers static, beautiful shot that people tend to overlook that his animation is quite poorly handled
Vonter
You're right, but art direction does alleviate limited animation, I mean the old Berserk anime, kinda has a lot of slideshow moments. MahoYome has nice backgrounds, and despite the samey faces, at the very least doesn't come from the same mold as other series. Still cutting corners with chibi segments is was a mistake.
SuperWooper
Is it any wonder that people prefer things to be static/on-model? They want to see characters who look consistent and familiar so they can relate to them.
Nie
MahoYome being the biggest offender of people getting triggered to any kind of statement about the show's animation not being good. And it's absurd because the show's animation really isn't great at all. It's good with distracting people with pretty pictures, but animation-wise it's still mediocre.
Nie
@SuperMario: Not much. Just stuff like "Art is part of the animation weather it's beautiful backgrounds or just amazing looking characters. It's not all about how they move. If it was, CG would be considered great animation" multiple times. I've just been finding myself being replied with these kinds of comment non-stop since the start of the season.
SuperMario
@Niello: What happened exactly, if you don't me asking?
Nielllo
If I hear someone says AMB has good animation one more tie I might actually lose it. It's amazing how people who apparently know nothing about it try to defend this and other people who don't know anything are actually supporting the guy.
Niello
So with Fate Apocrypha episode 22 out, I'm just now learning that people think webgen style is horrible and they prefer static scenes with pretty visual over actual quality animation. WTF. I can't comprehend this. Are casual people who watch animation in general really that oblivious to the art they have been watching?
Lenlo
Berserks Dynasty Warriors style game looked better. Also, Mahoutsukai should be up tonight/tomorrow. Turns out, Christmas is a busy time of year at this job.
Amagi
*worse
Amagi
Especially when you consider how good CGI can be by now, look at Houseki or Kado. But Berserk was the worst thing I saw in years, many scenes felt worst than sequences of PSX games
Amagi
@SuperMario: Same. I love Kon and also consider Paprika's OST as the best. @Lenlo: Me too. I honestly even enjoyed the movies but the new series was atrocious
Lenlo
HIRASAWAAAA! HAAAAAI YOOOOO.
I miss the 90s Berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was also quite fond of his soundtracks for Berserk. AIIIIIYE FORCES : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYYYew8CUI
SuperMario
@Amagi: I'm a big fan of Kon so I've watched everything from his. Even bought a book about his works. About the soundtrack, I listened to them as well but not regularly, compare to pprika OST which I downloaded and listen to a lot
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although not completely a manga, Usagi yojimbo also has an anthro character.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Millennium actress is partially inspired by the actress Setsuko Hara.
Amagi
@Kaiser-Eoghan: The anthro-animal manga is even a topseller as far as I know. Haven't looked into it yet, though. Maybe I will do so.
Amagi
Speaking of it, I am still hoping Dream Machine will happen some day. Kon died believing it would happen
Amagi
@SuperMario: Have you tried the other Kon movies like Millennium Actress once? Thought they were really good and Hirasawa is responsible for the OST there too. Or Paranoia Agent which was (IMO) very good as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nttSKBJ38k (OP)
Niello
Eoghan: Enjoy... ;)
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I haven't read this, its very strange to see a manga about full anthro animal characters: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Beastars
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: So based on that I will try devil lady. Thanks.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: That'd be me who made that post. I thought dororon enma-kun was wonderfully ridiculous and Devilman gorishly entertaining, Shin Mazinger Z was probably some of the most fun I had with an anime, but violence jack took it way too far though so I guess I'm aquainted with nagai's work
Vonter
I don't remember who was looking for something noir in anime. I was looking among several series from Go Nagai. And watched some Devil Lady. I don't remember if noir is exclusively detective stories, but this anime, has those high contrast shadows, eerie music and is shot like some japanese horror movies I've seen. I don't know if it changes along the road but so far it's very suspenseful.
SuperMario
I only know him through his works in Berserk and Paprika but his music never fails to amaze me
Anonymous1626471
@Amagi: Ghost Bridge is my favourite. I just find it very calming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeh5aJsxlbw
Amagi
Susumu Hirasawa is one of my favorite musicians/composers. I don't even know what kind of subgenre this is. There aren't any other music groups I know who do similar stuff
Nielllo
@Mario, Already saw that video before.
SuperMario
Check this out... I don't even know what the freaking instrument he's playing, but it's spellbound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjalQjAomH0
Niello
Just when I thought Houseki no Kuni took the prize for best animation I was treated with Apocrypha. This week is amazing.
Niello
Big name animators all over. They really threw everything they've got here.
Niello
Woooooah! OMG Apocrypha ep 22 animation is sick! So that's why the animation in the first half of the show is so lackluster and basically just darn awful.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its not entirely odd to bring up Heydrich in relation to the occult either, apparently he was said to be part of some whackjob order.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm, that girl from Dies irae, Anna Schwegln is aptly named, also shares her name with the last executed person for witchcraft, who was Bavarian German, which i'm told by an Austrian friend were particular right-est leaning politically.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course unfortunately its often the opposite that happens, nothing is worse than an ending that ruins everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, how I love being surprised by something. That feeling where you''re watching something shakily held together, simply okay or good, then suddenly in the second half or last stretch your score of it goes massively up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can kind of understand the wanting to go home and watch something easy mentality instead of challenging but even though I'm guilty of escapism, I'm tired somewhat of "sillier" stuff, its often enjoyable but its get overly reptitive and I wish I could find more philosophical/political/imaginative things.
Amagi
Yeah the show is great because of its theme, the setting and chemistry girls have as well as their (lack of) knowledge about basic human things. Each episode thematizes this in a different way but there isn't much you can talk or say about it when you already explained the topic in detail.
SuperMario
On the other hand, I don't have much to talk about Girls' Last Tour this week. It's still good, but with this episode I feel that I'm running out of concrete thig to say about the show
SuperMario
Haha both Houseki and 3-gatsu have a good showing this week. I have a lot of things to talk about Houseki in particular
Amagi
This week's Houseki is jurassic park
Amagi
*-ati - I think Netflix and so are at least giving a few new impulses which isn't too bad. I don't think the typical anime series will disappear because of that.
Amagi
At least in comparisation
Amagi
I think it's just sad how often I see wonderful series selling 500 BD/DVD or maybe even less. Most series don't sell more than 1500 or so and the rest is usually at ~3000-5000 which is still pretty low.
Amagi
Yeah, it's one of my pro-Netflix arguments as well. Another problem is that anime (not counting manga) only make money through dvd/bd sales since they air at night, whereas Netflix or daytime tv series don't depend on the latter so much and since anime BDs are so expensive the only ones who buy them are the more extreme fans.
AidanAK47
Might be in part due to the workaholic nature of their society that makes escapist fantasy and empty entertainment more appealing than usual. Ultimately these are the people anime is made for so opening up the markets gives more deserving shows a fighting chance.
Though that isn't to say that western taste is perfect either.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, That's part of the reason I think some westernation might be a good thing as from what I seen the Japanese have truly terrible taste in anime. Sales charts from Japan just make me shake my head.
Amagi
God, the preorder anime lists are atricious. The only one that seems to sell acceptable (around 6k) is Mahoyome. Series like Inuyashiki have 80 pre-orders so far, Shuumatsu Shoujo 977. Idol shows sell good of course, including that male/bishounen Idolmaster
AidanAK47
@Anon, I read it but kinda fell out due to it's releases being slow.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Actually if you check the manga recommendations section, you'll see there is a post about it here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yes, it was interesting to follow a story that dealt with a characters homosexuallity that was outside of the yaoi/yuri mould.
Anonymous1620968
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here read Shimanami Tasogare?
Niello
Where are we up to with Inuyashiki?
Lenlo
Well alright then. Episode 9 out of 11 and that happens. Was not expecting that
Lenlo
Ooo something happen this week? Im about to watch it
Kaiser-Eoghan
It feels just as rushed and awkward in the manga.
Amagi
I noticed this too
AidanAK47
Inuyashiki has balls of steel to pull that in this particular episode number.
Nielllo
Finally got around to reading Helck, and it looks like it's going to go into that pile of good-shounen-that-won't-ever-get-animated right alongside Psyren.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Imagine trying to buy the dvds of the show in public.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Gentle remind that the prism ilya movie is out and subbed.
AidanAK47
Still surprised the second and third seasons got dubbed.
AidanAK47
@Angel, I replied to one of your comments before but the rundown is no official word yet but maybe next year.
Angel
Or no? Someone please tell me!!
Angel
Going to happen?
Angel
Is fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub
Amagi
I dislike it when manga bait me into reading due to the first chapter and end up being some very generic stuff afterwards. Nobody stays for B if he started something for A, authours should expect that.
Lenlo
Really, Juuni should stick with the 3D. That fight in ep 9 looked pretty good. 3D is clearly what they are good at
AidanAK47
@Niello, It's not Chatango. It's a plugin for wordpress called Wisechat.
SuperMario
@Niello: yeah, Juuni caught me off guard this week. The production of Juuni is unfortunately shaky, but well, strong writing can save the day
Niello
Btw is this chat still Chatango?
Niello
This week episode of Juini is surprisingly good compared to how the show usually is with its backstory. Although the part where Ox tries to explain to Tiger could definitely use some visual buff.
SuperWooper
in the future*
SuperWooper
Pretty cool that Juuni Taisen had that kind of emotional heft this week, though. Might be one of the 2017 shows I sample the in the future.
SuperWooper
I think the occasional comments with an episode title and nothing more come from people who mistake the shoutbox for a search bar.
SuperMario
@Anon1614688: juuni taisen... made me tearing up this week. Honestly didn't expect that. Damn you, Tiger
Anonymous1614688
juuni taisen
Amagi
Had some complaints regarding Children of Whales but the latest two episodes were pretty good.
Amagi
@Anon: You explained it better than me.
Anonymous1614307
Kaiser: I actually have the exact same opinion of Natsume and Mushishi. Both are excellent, but Natsume just does a great job with a small core cast and a very simple premise
Anonymous1614456
who likes naruto
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mushishi does have good stories, but it was always a manga I'd dip in and out of, on and off for years, never marathoning it, wheras Natsume was easier to read several chapters of in one go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its because Natsume has more pathos.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more than
Natsume weirdly ended up becoming this comfort manga for me with a higher consistency rate .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will state that I hold the terrible opinion that I like Natsume Yujinchou than Mushishi but at the same time completely recognize that Mushishi is probably the more ambitious, better show.
Niello
So it becomes a cycle of "this is an interesting set up" (except that the new Kino isn't even good at that) and then they fucked up or Kino/Shizu fucked them up even more, then move on. Without the emphasis on philosophical nature of the set up they present like in the original Kino, there really isn't that much point to it.
Niello
With the new Kino it's more about messing people up, occassionally observing and hardly ever improving. The anwsers or solutions to the problem they present is never really talked about in a rational way.
SuperMario
@Anon1614318: maybe you should give the old Kino a try. What I don't like most about the new version of Kino is that both Kino and the new guy are sketched as hero. The old Kino manages the tone right as well. There were some really dark tales and most of them thought-provoking. Can't say the same for say...Country of Cooking
Anonymous1614318
I don't know, it might be interesting to actually dig deep into the differences between episodic series with this kind of style to see what works and what doesn't.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's a matter of the chapter they chose to adapt were not really the better ones but the ones where the protagonist is more of an active role. Not totally against that, but it feels like the protagonist is just OP all the time. At least with Mushishi Ginko isn't able to save everyone all the time.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's supposed to be more allegorical, but most of the time the allegory is not really meaningful enough. I thought it would be more along the lines of Mushishi, which is kind of similar in setup, but better in most other ways.
Anonymous1614318
What keeps me sticking around are some of the nice background arts and generally pleasant use of color, but admittedly most of the episodes aren't really engaging in a meaningful way. Most of the time its just Kino/Shizu show up, find out town's gimmick, then save the day. I prefer the episodes where the townspeople are more than just flat background characters.
Anonymous1614318
It's interesting to see how this new Kino season is being received from folks who've already watched the original. This is my first real exposure to Kino, and I kind of like it, but even without watching the original, I share many of the same complaints Aidan and most of the others have.
Amagi
I am also kinda sad he's just some 2* servant in fgo, but his power is special and he's physically weak, so it's understandable.
Amagi
And again, Shakespeare is just great but the character is, sadly, kinda wasted here considering how much screentime he has.
Amagi
@Aidan: Yes. Plus, maybe more characterization or background for some servants. The anime would have that time without Sieg and his romance sub plot.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Those being remove Sieg and more Shakespeare?
Amagi
And man Apocrypha is pretty good but it would be twice as good if it had those two changes Aidan always mentions in the reviews..
Amagi
@Kaiser: I think the male in Kino was a mistake. Having two PoV sounds good, but he's basically just a male Kino, he even looks like her. Someone vastly different would have been way more interesting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd guarantee that sangatsu no lion would be high up, but FINALLY this weekend I'll be catching up.
Niello
@Kaiser, Ugh my phone gitched. What I meant to say was that background was unexpected. Now I see why you're enjoying CotW though.
Niello
@Kaiser, That's unexpected.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoyed how outright surreal Arakawa was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: It bothers me that they're stuffing multiple tales into single episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, excel saga, I wonder what I would think of it now, its been years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I actually respect Aidan's coverage of it.
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Featured Posts

Juuni Taisen – 11 [To Treat a Man to Beef From His Own Cow]

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