Posted by psgels on 22 September 2009 with categories: 07-Ghost, Anime Reviews


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To be honest, until a week ago I still wasn’t quite sure how to review this series. I mean, there obviously was something wrong with it, but I just couldn’t put my finger to exactly what. Nevertheless, with the final two episodes (which were very exciting, by the way), I finally know where this series went wrong, and why it went from a very promising series to just… boredom.

Imagine yourself as the villain: you’re placed high in the military. A certain kid escapes your clutches, and this kid happens to hold the evil godmode powers of doom, and it is vital to get these powers back, so you are assigned this task. You’ve got a number of competent henchmen and you youself also are an experienced commander. It shouldn’t be too hard to come up with a plan to capture a 14-year old boy, right?

Well, this guy here sits on a chair for more than 20 episodes, looks evil and hardly does anything, and the plans that he does carry out hardly can be called the most effective ways to get to his objectives. In a lot of series, a good villain can really make a series, and really, Ayanami would have made an excellent villain if this guy actually stood up and DID SOMETHING.

the major problem with 07-Ghost is that it drags. Horribly. The plot here could have been carried out in one quarter of the time it actually used. So in the process, the lead characters have to find ways to keep them busy. Sometimes this is meaningful, but often it’s just way too angsty, melodramatic and shallow. Not really worth the investment of 25 episodes.

Which is a bloody shame, because this show definitely has some right ingredients. The direction during the action scenes is actually quite good: with an excellent soundtrack it knows how to entertain by pushing the right buttons at the same time. The series is full of creative shots and camera-angles, and the animation also hardly has any distorted faces. This is exactly why I was excited about this series: it sounded like an epic premise, but in the end the creators could have done so much more with this premise.

This series takes place in a church for the most part, so there is a unique religious feel about this series, so it’s really a bit of a shame of this wasted potential. Unfortunately, it’s really typical of the director: he did the same one to Hatenkou Yuugi, ruining it by an abysmal pacing. This guy really knows how direct technically: he knows how to make things exciting. However, in terms of content and especially pacing he still has a lot to learn. The best episodes in this series really ended up being episode 1 and 24. That has to say something.

Storytelling: 7/10
Characters: 7/10
Production-Values: 8/10
Setting: 8/10

15 Responses

  1. Anca says:

    hmm, as for me, it was probably the exact opposite. I found the first part incredibly boring, and only got through it because the character designs were exactly like in Kyou Kara Maou; bishonen riding on motorcycles who double as priests? Angstangstangst? It was too much like Saiyuki all over again.

    But it turned awesome sometimes around when they revealed Frau was Zehel – after that each episode was a delight. Teito’s angst was suddenly justified and very realistic (you don’t get over your bff dieing that fast) and Hakuren was the perfect character to support Teito. Maybe also because we got the sense of ‘something more’ – I love it when they involve gods and other such beings with the main character. Hakuren was the perfect character to support Teito.

    More importantly than Teito gaining realism was that Frau and his two side-kicks suddenly got interesting – moving them on from nice guy at day, leather-clad hero by night to something that wasn’t quite meant to be a nice guy in the first place, but fits perfectly in the setting. Labrador is the only character of his type I actually like. My score will be much higher simply because I adore how they handled the ghosts (especially technically).

    But I agree that they hideously undercharacterised the villains; I’ve been wondering (haven’t seen #25 yet) whether the Fuuma look-alike Ayanami’s pet is one of the 7 ghosts; it would fit. It’s pretty much clear that Ayanami is one (either way, he knew about the three at the church – there were few ways he could have moved and he tried them all.). It might be the fault of the manga it was adaptaded from, since it runs much longer than the anime does.

    • VV says:

      Well, not only as a reply to you but the writer of this well-written review as well, the problems listed above technically don’t exist.

      /Technically/. As in, they don’t exist in the manga. The anime closely followed the manga well enough, with each episode covering one chapter right about, but the thing is..

      07 Ghost is a 99 Chapter Manga. In other words, they didn’t even cover half of it with these first 25 episodes, as you may have realized at the ending of the 25th episode.

      Ayanami as a villain rarely appears to fight Teito head on for a variety of reasons that do indeed make sense. However, me saying those reasons and many other things would spoil everything else.

      To put it simply; while 07 Ghost did drag on at times, and the manga didn’t have a great ending, I have to say I really did like it. Ayanami’s character, not just who he is as a person but /what/ he is, is crucial to the story. The same is with Teito, as he isn’t merely the prince of raggs, or the eye of mikhael’s master.

      Things such as that are very, and I mean /very/ crucial to the plot. The story essentially boils down to Ayanami, Teito, the Princess of Barsburg, and Frau. More so Ayanami and Teito than Frau and Ouka-hime, but Frau is a definite driving force for Teito.

      Something else that needs to be taken into account is that 07 Ghost despite having several excellent fights, isn’t really all about the action. It’s about the characters, their pasts, their personalities, and how this all plays into a grander scheme of someone or something else, for good or for worse.

      The Anime falls horribly short however, as it essentially covers the equivalent of the Golden Age arc from Berserk.

      Actually, using the Berserk anime as an example is an excellent comparison, as the story of 07 Ghost doesn’t /truly/ begin until after Chapter 25–or for the anime, Episode 25. Unfortunately since the anime stopped there, your choices are to either accept that or read the manga.

      Personally, I’d just skip the anime entirely and go read the manga from the beginning.

  2. mds says:

    Agreed with psgels on most part of it.Ayanami should’ve been dangerous,and moreover,both fearsome and hatred villain.The manga’s plot paced much more faster than this one; Mikage’s death even occured in volume 1 …
    I dropped this at the point where they did 3 filler episodes over and over again…

    So,like always,manga version is better than anime.A very rare exception is Bokurano (both manga and anime are equally awesome) ,Ga Rei (manga is ok,but anime was much better),and Vampire Knight (manga definitely shoujo angst over and over)….

  3. Khan says:

    That’s probably because nothing has happened in the manga yet where Teito is directly facing Ayanami since there’s a lot of politics involved that aren’t in the anime.

  4. Iza says:

    I to think it’s a real shame for the series. The pacing really ruined everything, they did put too much unnecesery stuff.
    Although the main problem is that 25 episodes is too short and they filled the time up with useless fillers. The manga has a faster pace, but it does things much more logically. Also the story is still unfolding…- I don’t wish to spoil anything for anybody, so I won’t say too much – Teito slowly moves on from the church and things happen after that. Slowly everything becomes clear.
    As for Ayanami, he is much more of a villain in the manga – he does actually get out of his chair, he doesn’t use weak Kor to do his work (they do what they do naturally), and his plans mostly worked. He even does some things in person.
    It’s really a shame. The manga for me at least is interesting, but they should have put more though into the anime.

  5. 3mapletrees says:

    I also feel the show dragged but still had some gems that made you want to hang in there. Beautiful to look at, appealing characters (especially when Teito got less emo), intriguing storyline (once it got going). Also, just wanted to say I really enjoy this blog. It’s kinda cool to read another’s opinion on the episodes I watch (Phantom, 007-Ghost, Aoi Hana, Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, Guin Saga).

  6. I haven’t seen 07 Ghost, but I was, however, searching for a new Anime to pick up. The animation in Anime is one of the things I look for most, and this animation looks beautiful. Judging by your review, you think it’s slow, but Code Geass started out the same for a while, and I quite enjoyed that.

    I’ll give this a go, and see what I think. If I like it, I’ll be sure to come back and say so!

  7. WatcherZero says:

    Its returning next year, still dissapointing final episode and the pacings been so slow I almost dropped it three times.

  8. oppy says:

    The best part of this anime was at the end of episode 23 when Teito finally sees Ayanami and it’s playing that music.

    I agree with much of the above; the biggest problem with this show is that there was about zero character development for the bad guys like Ayanami and a few of his more interesting looking henchmen and also little development of the world they live in. Instead, they waste all the time sitting around doing nothing in a church, which, okay, may be an interesting setting, but it gets boring seeing that same setting for literally 24 episodes.

    A lot of the development of the setting that does happen is very passive and there are many episodes spent doing things which essentially amount to nothing, like all those early ones where they face a new kor each time.

    I have no clue what the manga is like but it seems like the anime is missing out on a lot of things that I’d certainly hope are there.

  9. Happy!! says:

    Even though it was slow paced, I still loved it. The manga was too fast for me, that I had to go back a couple of times, and yet I still didn’t get it. The anime was practically faithful to it IMO. The only part that I thought was dragging was when Mikage warned Teito not to get near him.

  10. Firechick says:

    Please don’t hate me for saying this, but I LOVED this anime to bits! Everything about it was just awesome to me (especially the soundtrack! Irish anime music FTW!!!) and it really hooked me like a fish on a fishing line. Plus I also noticed something. We all notice that the 07-Ghost military academy uniforms look like the ones in Code Geass, but here’s the thing: the manga actually started in 2005, and Code Geass didn’t exist until late 2006, so I’m thinking the latter has the most unoriginal clothes designs. I know, just my opinion. I loved it to bits, but it’s ranked #14 on my list (behind Haibane Renmei and even A Little Princess). I am kinda sad that the villains didn’t get much development (especially Konatsu, but I like him! He’s too cute to be a villain!!), but hey do villains EVER get any development for that matter? But this doesn’t stop me from loving it. Plus, Teito’s practically a boy version of ME!! But I respect your opinions so I won’t push anything. I loved it a lot, and I’m trying to get my friend Emmy into this since she loves pervs (Frau) and pretty boys in general.

  11. Medha says:

    i kind of agree with you, but since i continued reading the manga, i kind of don’t. XD

    SPOILER (:
    In the manga, ayanami goes much more badass, and he actually injures castor pretty badly. T.T
    END OF SPOILER. :P

    i loved all the charectars, and i especially loved how they made the villains so…likeable-y evil. if that makes sense. XD

  12. ria says:

    Yes 07- ghost might be a bit slow in the first couple of episodes but the anime gets better and interesting with each episode. A lot of characters get added later and more exploration into Teito`s past makes it watchable. Also one of the major bishops of the church turning out to be a spy and along with exploration into Frau`s past makes the series really interesting. The clash of the imperial military with the church is a really interesting theme and the complications and development of the main characters such as the bishops adds a bit of realism to the anime. The anime ended beautifully on a really interesting note with Teito leaving with Frau to know more about his past, leaves wanting for more. The season 1 ended rather abruptly and suddenly. I wish the Studio Deen looks forward towards making season 2 of the anime for the earnest fans of 07- ghost. The manga is great and there is enough manga material for a season 2 of the anime.

  13. Cedric says:

    Thanks for the review! Finally saw ep1 and didn’t think much of it.

  14. Stella says:

    I agree that Ayanami could’ve been more active but, I love how there are moments when it’s funny on the bad guys side too (read the manga, you’ll understand more). (Spoiler) Speaking of the manga, they do end up traveling all over the place the anime just doesn’t include that part. Something that I actually found really unique about this anime is that the seven ghosts (supposed “good guys”) looking just as menacing as Ayanami when he’s doing his glower. Also, something unique about the bad guys is that they mess around and act like friends probably more than the good guys do. I mean sure they act evil sometimes but unlike villains in other animes (especially the older ones) they don’t sit around and do nothing but obsess over how to stop the hero. Well, I’ve probably ended up ranting and stating my opinion more than anything else but, I’d advise you people who want something more after the anime or more of an understanding of it to read the manga.

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Anonymous870083
mm okay thanks!
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Think you might just have to go with a torrent. It's pretty hard to find direct download anime these days.
Anonymous870541
the latest episode of rakugo just made my heart sank. i didn't think it would get better than it already is. i thank god that i didn't read ahead
Anonymous870083
does anyone know where I can download the remastered version of the Utena series? without torrent?
SuperMario
the same very thought here Lenlo. What I considered the weakest part turned out to be so layered. Sorry for ever doubting you, Rakugo.
Lenlo
And that smirk at the end, beautiful
Lenlo
The weakest plot point of S1 has just become the best part ever.
Lenlo
OOH MAN. I was not ready. The entire first season was all a setup. I cant. What. HOW DOES IT GET BETTER
Lenlo
Cant wait to watch Rakugo tonight, just got home and im lookin forward to it,.
AidanAK47
I think before grabbing the protest signs it might be worth considering if the thing you are demanding be uncensored is even worth it. Oh yeah, now you can see genitalia in crap sex scenes that were crow bared into the plot. No more need to use your imagination.
AidanAK47
Some protest because they want there porn. That I suppose I can understand even if I think they would be better off buying some nukige. But then there are those who demand it just for the sake of standing against censorship. They don't give a crap about the game or the fact we are getting the exact same thing the japanese got. What? Censorship of sexual organs? DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!
AidanAK47
There are people actively proclaiming they won't buy the game, because they can't see dicks. That is not hyperbole. This is literally exactly whats happening here. And they just act so goddamn self righteous about it. Porn is not the goddamn point of these games. Shouldn't even be in them in the first place.
AidanAK47
So another Sekai Kickstarter is up for a trilogy of Visual novels called A Clockwork Ley-Line. Chipped in my bit as I am going to be buying this regardless but like goddamn clockwork you get the idiots yelling for Mosaic removal. No matter how I try to rationalize it, this just sounds stupid.
Kaiser Eoghan
Just whenever I think Rakugo may be dragging its feet it comes out a gives me three big strong moments in this weeks episode, you will know them when you come to them.
K-Off
Dubbing in more subdued performances work fine. It just becomes unbearable when it involves shouty dialogue, which idescribes most of the Japanese games I play.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I think at the time it allowed Bagel (where did he go?) to find some exploit/gap in the sites security too.
SuperMario
I mean the spoiler code in the comment section. ^^. Like I don't mind if readers give (potential) spoilers but I don't want to ruin the fun of other readers as well
AidanAK47
After all it wasn't a intended feature of the old shoutbox. We were pretty much hacking the thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
I seem to remember all those old html codes stopped working on the old shoutbox too at one point.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was also originally an ability to animate text too of the shoutbox and have gifs appear in the message box but not as links.
AidanAK47
I remember some HTML code worked with the old shoutbox but nope. But I suppose you could change the colour of text to white...though that would effect everything you write.
SuperMario
Btw, do we have spoiler tag here Aidan?
SuperMario
@anon861679: Agreed. They have big ambitions, but they seems unsure on what to do next. I mean engaging your readers to give their thoughts is good, but if it is a mean for you to get inspiration to write essay about isn't that great. Well, give them say 6 months until they can settle down (they just launched this site for 3,4 months only)
Kaiser Eoghan
Despite being fine with anime in English, I've almost always felt that voice acting in videogames isn't as good.
Anonymous861679
Hey mario, that anime feminist blog was well, kind of awful. While they're well intentioned, it felt like they were pushing tumblr stuff onto chan stuff and that always ends up in a smoking mess.
SuperMario
Okay I'm going to erase my memories right now
SuperMario
I swear I'll stay off reddit for good. Have been spoiled by the development of ACCA by one of their "theory". As soon as I realized it's freaking spoiler I stopped but what done is done. Ahhhhhhhhhh
K-Off
Christ Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty addicting, micro transactions are not necessary at all. Though it irks me that I can't get Japanese voices. Dubs just make me cringe every time.
SuperMario
@ckspike: Hand Shakers, the very quality that makes you brain cells die while watching it. Well, I actually think the music is one of the best part of the show, now that you mention it like that...well...*slap my forehead*
ckspike
... my roommate just told me the background music when I'm watching Hand Shakers sounds like a bad porno... Now I can't unhear it. Fuck!
Lenlo
I havnt kept up with Academia, for some reason it just didnt catch me as well as the movie first did.
AidanAK47
You know what's funny? I thought little Witch Academia would be the hardest one to blog. Yet halfway into the current season and it's the one I write the most about.
Lenlo
I actually dont read many blogs. Mostly just this place and the occasional pop on reddit
Anonymous859067
I'd like to present to one of my favorite blogs, A work I just created: Greed Island! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tc2r.greedisland
AidanAK47
I go to Reddit anime myself but I don't really like the upvote system. Basically the majority rule opinions get put to the top which more often than not are jokes.
HelghastKillzone
I listen to podcasts on youtube and others places as well as going on Reddit Anime to hear a thousand people yammering away.
Kaiser Eoghan
I irregularly follow the episode reviews on ANN and sometimes read standing on my neck. I fell out of the habit of following random curiousity.
SuperMario
Anime Feminist (animefeminist.com), while sounds ambitious on paper, hasn't been too hot unfortunately. I know they aim to be "big" so they're still figuring out how to do it best. Well, good luck for them!
SuperMario
Oh, I know I've mentioned this site before but you guys should read it (blog.sakugabooru.com), this site is one of the only few blogs that I actively subscribed to read their post. They have some insights to the anime industry that is very informative and inspiring
SuperMario
I also think that this chatbox here plays a great role to keep a fair amount of readers for the site, as many sometimes just come here to give their two cents on certain anime.
SuperMario
I just checked out rabujoi blof for the first time, (https://rabujoi.wordpress.com) and I think they're in pretty good shape. Content-wise are solid (as far as I read), and they update their post pretty regularly (comparing their amount of posts last month (80) to ours (28), ouch)
SuperMario
Just really wonder, what are other anime sites that you guys follow beside this? Well, ANN and RandomC are a given, but I found myself haven't bothered to read ANN's episodic reviews lately (mostly due to time constraint)
AidanAK47
Don't tell me this is gonna be a regular thing.
Lenlo
There we go
Lenlo
Oh god JSON objects. I thought that nightmare was over
SuperMario
Mine is working probably as well. Thanks a bunch K-Off and glad to hear back from you.
K-Off
No problem.
K-Off
I really need to figure out how to get those damn tooltips working again on the sidebar thumbnails. It'd be useful to have the descriptions popup.
AidanAK47
Cleared my cache and it looks to be fixed. Thanks as always K-Off. I would be completely screwed without you around.
K-Off
Alright I think that did it. Let me know if it pops up again. If you still see it, clear your browser cache and let me know if its still there.
AidanAK47
Messages still get sent. You just might have to reload the page. We are working on getting it fixed.
Vonter
AidanAK47 I can't get into Fate since like with Nanoha there's a lot of stuff with those names in it. Zero was the most straightforward, yet the buildup was very dragout but the payoffs where very worthy.
HelghastKillzone
testing message.
AidanAK47
This is what I get for updating the bloody plugin.....
AidanAK47
He finished it and was telling me what he thought of Saber defeating Gilgamesh. Minute he said that I was like "OH GOD..." He watched the Deen 2006 adaption. Sadly it loos like he's not going to bother watching UBW TV despite me showing him part of the berserker fight. With Fate/Extra, Fate/Grand Order, Fate/Apocrypha, Fate/Oath under the snow and all the rest this problem will happen again.
AidanAK47
You know I wish the Fate series did a better job naming it's series. I was introducing a newbie so I gave him Fate/Zero first. He loved it so I specifically told him to watch the UBW TV Series and don't mistake it for the movie. He then went and watched the movie. I told him to watch the TV series regardless and brought up the MAL page to show him which one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, there's definately no harm in doing further reading on more arthouse stuff before reviewing it/watching/after watching, it extends our understanding and is pretty much required.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Go for it, you might sell me on reading it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah, I generally only write reviews every now and then, and they tend to be kept simple and to 200-300 words. My writing ability only really works when I write in stream of consciousness.
Anonymous855550
Zestiria is such a feast for the eyes... The colors and backgrounds are so vivid and magnificent. Story has improved on the game's weaknesses too!
Lenlo
Given enough time, im sure I could write something, but as I writer I tend towards quick, decisive statements of what I think and why. Engineer, so technical documents are like the only thing I know how to write.
Topgavin
@Supermario ah, I'd say I'm the opposite in that I sometimes don't know why I like something so much, and when I read a review about it I can relate my own experiences and put it in my own words pretty well. Can thank Highschool eco for that
SuperMario
But to tell you guys the truth, I never think that I'm cut out as a reviewer (even now), because I'm a type of viewer who more perceive (I know why I like/ don't like stuffs) than express (just can't never explain stuffs well)
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it's depending on what grabbing you really; as I always find shows with heavy symbolisms like Penguindrum or Flip Flappers the easiest to dig deeper. But those are always my kind of show to begin with
Topgavin
I'd find it really hard to write something about a show without reading about it first; watching it one time by myself I usually only notice the big things. Stuff like Flip Flappers I had no clue what half the episode's hidden meanings were, can't imagine reviewing a show like NGE or penguindrum.
SuperMario
that's exactly how I write my reviews anyways
Lenlo
I cant imagine writing a review, id just repeat myself with different words but the same intended meaning over and over again
AidanAK47
Wonder if I should write a review of this. Might be hard without giving too much away.
AidanAK47
(Finishes Sweetest monster Visual novel)
.....well....fuck.
(Buys all authors visual novels on steam.)
Lenlo
Sadly, I doubt Nioh will get a PC port. Sony is pretty stingy on their exclusives, like Bloodborne. But I am so very happy with Nioh. I love technical combat like this
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose this means I'm looking into this rpg maker game thing now isn't it? Might aswell.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the word animerican used to describe things like avatar last airbender. Filthy word =P
Anonymous853606
God no. Jiro Taniguchi died.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I have been hearing very good things about Nioh. Really hoping it gets a PC port.
@Topgavin, No real surprises there.
Topgavin
I'm sure most of you have heard, but looks like New Game is getting a season 2 out of all things. Apparently they had good sales, and I can certainly see why. CGDCT with yuri undertones and clean animation is hard to get wrong, let alone not sell.
Lenlo
Just started with Nioh, and oh my goodness do I love it.
Anonymous852887
anyone play resident evil 7? its so good.
AidanAK47
Thought that's because the term American Anime just feels wrong to me on all levels.
AidanAK47
@Anon, they do not. They are cartoons.
Anonymous852775
DO people call D.C. Comics animated movies American anime?
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am certainly interested in seeing the next episode. Those minisodes were pretty good too. One thing I thought the writting faltered on though was the comedy. It really was a little too slapstick considering how serious the drama was.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: ah remind me the time I went to Texas (Corpus Christy) before X-mas time and I was wearing short pants and thongs (nice!!!), then went all the way up to Niagara Falls and I was almost freezing there.
Lenlo
See, I love winter, but its almost non-existent in Texas
Anonymous852268
@Aidan: I agree. I loved To the Moon. It's so good seeing emotional drama that isn't centered around high-school kids. Seeing the ups and downs of a whole long life of a person gives everything that happens way more impact.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: An Australian friend put it as "A sunbaked rock in summer, a giant zoo, that actively tries to kill its population"
SuperMario
Not that I'm enjoying the winter either. Why autumn always go so fast?
SuperMario
Believe me but summer here is way too much. When it's too hot and dry it starts bushfiring really badly. And it's too hot that even a big fan straight in front of you don't do you any good
Kaiser Eoghan
What is this mysterious creature known as summer you refer to? =P My country is grey as a black and white film =P
SuperMario
I'm wondering how freezing you guys have to endure right now, but the place I came today in Aussie just reached 50 degree celsius this noon. So hot I felt myself burning
Lenlo
I think the part I liked the most, was just how satisfying those mud splatter sounds were. I dont know why, but its in my head
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki 6 subs came out at 11pm PST.
Lenlo
Atleast Rakugo didnt get held up. Still amazing as ever
AidanAK47
Well I spent my time waiting for it to come out by playing and finishing To the Moon. Got to say, it takes some real skill to make a game in RPGmaker that can make you really feel something. But maybe I am just a sucker for this kind of story.
SuperMario
Hey, I would be very frustrating if Hand shakers got delayed. But I agree this delay is caused by Being X. And Scum's Wish, haizzz, this is the show we love to get pissed at. Haha
Anonymous850298
I blame Being X.
AidanAK47
Sigh, Youjo Senki 6 is delayed. Why is it always the best shows that get delayed? If an episode of hand Shakers was delayed no one would give a crap but nope. Gotta be the show you want to watch right away.
AidanAK47
@Anon, in both anime and manga I never liked that character much.
Anonymous849783
Meh, dropped Masamune-kun. Seriously why do they always have to shove in these one dimensional characters with a crush out of f* nowhere. It never made any of these shows more interesting, it's always the opposite.
Vonter
@Kaiser Eoghan - I find it weird having the teacher being so unashamedly evil. In a way I like that, but at the same time I can't relate to the notion of people like that existing IRL.
Kaiser Eoghan
As I continue to watch scums wish, it becomes an anger inducing as much as it is engrossing experience.
AidanAK47
Or the UBW movie over the TV series. You just don't do that.
AidanAK47
That's like recommending someone to watch NGE death and rebirth instead of the TV series.
Kaiser Eoghan
Meh, I just got fed up with the padding in the tv version.
AidanAK47
Jojo has the kind of entertainment that clicks with you or doesn't so I understand if you didn't get into it. Though to give it a fair chance I would recommend trying the first episodes of Battle Tendency. It starts at episode 10 of the first season, you can jump to it. If that doesn't catch you then Jojos really isn't for you.
AidanAK47
Don't listen to Kaiser. The OVA is bad.
Kaiser Eoghan
....found out where a friend had been off to lately, making a movie and he ended up actually making and finishing and I got first dibs. Had a hard time commenting on it as I know the guy personally.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Totally with you on the academy thing.
@Lenlo: If you ever try jojo again and get onto part three go for the ova instead as it trims down an overly bloated arc.
Lenlo
For JoJos, I couldnt get through the first season. It just didnt hook me
Lenlo
What I dont understand is how anything other than Mob Psycho won best animation, cause my god.
Lenlo
I think Erased lost not because of the libido, but because Yuri was "gay" and "progressive" and most important of all, recent. Yuri had just finished airing so it was stuck in everyones heads. Of course it was going to win everything
AidanAK47
Erased truly deserved to win that category and it only lost because people voted with their libido instead of their head.
AidanAK47
If there's one thing that really makes me angry about these awards it's Yuri on Ice winning most heartwarming moment for "The Kiss". Because A) It wasn't a fucking kiss and B) Even if it was that isn't heartwarming. Oh I am sure something is getting warm but it sure as hell isn't your heart.
AidanAK47
Likely the main reason Kira didn't win main villain because Jojo has grown to a episode count which makes people hesitant to pick it up. Not to mention many would lose interest by Stardust crusaders midpoint.
AidanAK47
When it comes to judging quality you have to leave it to the people who have experienced enough of the medium to truly be able to critical judge it. Pretty darn sure most who voted didn't even bother watching everything worthwhile each season and just gravitated towards whatever they were exposed to.
AidanAK47
Lets not forget someone voting multiple times and bot voting. Because yes, people really do that. As you two pointed out, a public vote was never truly going to be a accurate gauge of quality. For you are not only opening the vote to anime lovers but also newbies and those who simply haven't refined their tastes yet.
SuperMario
so they either abstained their votes (which actually was reasonable); voted for something popular or even voted based on what their kids liked the most (which was flat out unforgivable).
SuperMario
This from my own frustration mostly when it comes to awards like this. But I've been following the Academy Awards for way too long now and every now and then you heard something that really disheartened about their voting process. Like for example many of the Academy members admitted that they don't care to watch anything animated because... it's kiddy stuff
SuperMario
TL;DR: my point is I have mixed feeling about the whole Crunchyroll awards. One more thing that I noticed about the nomination is that the pool was dominated by shows from the first half of last year.
Lenlo
I dont think public voting is the way to go is the thing. Popularity contests are horrible. With popularity contests moe is going to be near the top every time, while shows like Rakugo never really have a chance. And I think there is little doubt that Rakugo was one of the best shows last season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: there is an issue with the first thou, because reviewers like us don't actually represent the whole public opinions. So it's all come down to the very reason they create an award in a 1st place (your second point). But with voting we can't really reason why the winners win the trophy, right?
Lenlo
The problem with awards like that is for them to mean anything they need 2 things. 1) A board of voters who are actual reviewers who have watched a large portion of what was on shelf that season. 2) Reasons for why each thing won its award. An award without reasons means nothing
SuperMario
Other issue about voting for these awards is that the nominating body and the voting body aren't always the same. Usually the voting body is broader and more generic in taste, so I'm not at all surprised when shows like Rakugo couldn't win. Too art-house for their liking. Well, at least it got nominated which for me is good enough.
SuperMario
That's the thing. When it comes to awards, they are more 'popularity' contest than actual quality, since people tend to vote for the safer choice (the one that are both popular and mildly critical success), YOI fits the bill here.
Lenlo
Those awards were not the best and little more then a popularity contest imo.
SuperMario
Actually with that line-up I had no problems with YOI taking the top spot
SuperMario
I actually forgot about the Crunchyroll Anime Awards so I came to check the winner. Guess which show won AOTY huh? Alright, at least it wasn't Kabaneri or Jokers Game
Kaiser Eoghan
But the best one was Mask of Phantasm.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: And return of the joker also.
Kaiser Eoghan
It has aged admittedly very poorly, but I always got a great kick out of that old 1994 spiderman cartoon.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I think its fair to use the term K-anime or C-anime for the Korean and Chinese influenced stuff, or maybe just anime would be just as appropriate. If some Argentinian guy can write/draw a manga for a Japanese manga magazine (big comic superior thats the magazines name) and have it actually be called a manga, it should be the same for China/Korea.
Lenlo
Mhmm. Marvel had the movies, but DC had the animated series
AidanAK47
Man, I loved the villains of Batman Beyond. Inque and Shriek had such interesting powers. The DC animated shows tended to be the one that didn't treat you like a kid while watching.
Lenlo
Well, they released a trailer for Samurai Jack S5, so its coming. Batman Beyond I also enjoyed
AidanAK47
Ah Samurai Jack. Wonder how that Adult swim revival is going? Batman the Animated Series as well didn't need Batman to crack off jokes every minute to be great.
Lenlo
Agreed. Samurai Jack was one of my favorite cartoons for that very reason. It ran the gamut of genres, each episode being something different.
Also I used Nichijou cause it was the first to come to my mind as a "Kids Show", though Love-Ru works as well
AidanAK47
One thing I think Cartoons could do to move away from the stigma of being for kids is having more genres than Comedy and Action adventure. Or at least stop putting comedy in everything.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Every fanbase has it's fanatics. There are idiots everywhere.
@Lenlo, I thought this might come up though I was expecting more of "placing Berserk and To Love-Ru in the same category" thing. Honestly I don't have a rebuttal for that. What is an isn't anime is really a matter of what anime is to you.
Lenlo
Now Aidan, you say putting Berserk and Scoopy doo in the same category is wrong, but what about Berserk and say.. Nichijou? A similar problem comes up and I think thats more to do with Berserk being a pretty major outlier (And I love it for being so. Have all the original Dark Horse volumes on my shelf)
Lenlo
Really though, reading Reddit arguments about it is so much fun.
Lenlo
I do think that recently, a number of shows have been trying to move cartoon, and animation in general in the west, away from meaning "For Kids".
Lenlo
Im not sure sure about that Anon, look at the Steven Universe and MLP fanbases.
Anonymous840067
Aidan, that isn't true... Anime has a 'special' name because it's fan base is a lot more fanatical than the cartoon fan base.
AidanAK47
Though I think the whole "Its not for kids" is the main push. Looking at my anime collection the majority is rated 15 with a few 12s. It's like the way you have Young Adult and mature, Comic books and graphic novels, or Visual novels and Eroge. They are essentially the same thing but appeal to different audiences.
AidanAK47
Though I think what really pushes this argument is that the term anime at least has a badge of honor. You don't see people demanding a show to be called a cartoon.
AidanAK47
Honestly the term anime is just a distinction to separate it from the more kiddy stuff. The term cartoon in the western world is too ingrained with the likes of Hanna Barbera or loony toons. No matter how you put it, putting Scooby Doo and Berserk in the same category is just wrong.
SuperMario
Then would you consider Korean, Chinese anime-influenced shows as anime? (I would) and those anime that aimed for Western audience (like Animatrix) as anime? (I would too)
SuperMario
But then we have something like Thunderbolt Fantasy lasy year which if I go for this defination (style) then it isn't anime at all, yet I would categorize it as anime
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