Posted by psgels on 24 September 2009 with categories: Anime Reviews



The first season of Ookami to Koushinryou, or Spice and Wolf, came from absolutely nowhere. It had the worst possible staff you can imagine (outside of the team that’s been animating Ikkitousen and Queen’s Blade, perhaps) and yet it came and delivered an incredibly solid series about merchants during the medieval times. Its second season takes this formula, and only improves on it.

It may seem like a given, but sequels don’t always surpass their original. This however is far from the case in Spice and Wolf. The second season is overall a lot darker than its predecessor, and it really made use of the fact that the characters have already got a season’s worth of development in them. It consists out of two big arcs, each in which Lawrence is trying to strike a very, very risky deal. They’re all very intelligent and well-fleshed out, full of surprises and with a very good conclusion.

You can really see that this is a series that’s based on a light novel series, rather than a manga. Just like the first season, the dialogue is deep and meaningful, and you really have to pay attention to keep following it. Horo and Lawrence love teasing each other with smart and witty remarks, and together they develop into quite a memorable couple. There are some great romantic scenes during the quiet parts in this series, that really gets the best out of both of them.

For the second season, the animation has been taken over by Brains Base, and if you pay attention then you can really see that the graphics have also gotten an upgrade, especially the background art looks gorgeous because of it. Overall, the second season is a bit less whimsical than the first one, but it makes up for it by a couple of well built-up and written arcs.

Storytelling: 9/10
Characters: 9/10
Production-Values: 8/10
Setting: 9/10

20 Responses

  1. Voiced says:

    Best anime ever.

  2. Mike says:

    I love Spice and Wolf, especially the novels…

    Which is why I’m still raging about how they cut out novel #4 completely in this season ;_;

  3. m says:

    I really liked both seasons, and I have been meaning to dig into the novels under the assumption that they are even better. I also hope that the disc sales will encourage them to continue with another season.

    If I have any gripe with the show, it’s the tendency for characters explain their strategies to each other even when doing so makes no sense. Otherwise it’s pretty interesting, and the interplay between Lawrence and Horo is really fun.

  4. Perrin4869 says:

    What a wonderful second arc this season had! The last episode was fantastic. I’m so curious to know what happens next!!!

    On another note though, I don’t think I quite got what was Lawrence’s scheme in the first arc. What was the purpose the deal with Amarti in the 4th episode? I’d be glad if someone clarified that for me!

  5. Matt says:

    The on word that comes to mind is, “Magical” thats what this anime has.. Alot of anime’s try to create superficial suspense through shallow means. Not this anime, the characters are so enjoyable that when you are brought into there world and feel for them.

    I hope there is more, one of my favorite Anime’s in a long time..

  6. Frost says:

    Meh you could have given it a 90, its well deserved… Spice & Wolf is one of the few animes out there that avoids most cliches and does its own thing, and its great at it

    And watching the developing relationship between lawrence and horo is soooo worth it

    The bad part is the ending was too perfect and there probably wont be a 3rd season… meh!

  7. Omurqi says:

    Ofcourse there will be a third! First and foremost, the anime is awesome and has a large fanbase. Second of all, they ended in the middle of an arc!

    Anyhow, fantastic final episode of one of my favorite series! I’ll be waiting for the third season.

  8. Kanao says:

    Only show I’ve enjoyed every episode as much as Bakemonogatari this season. I personally feel that the second season was better than the first in every conceivable manner.

    On another note, I just watched ten episodes of Gankutsuou and it easily makes it into the ‘most awesome anime ever’ list. I’ll likely finish it today but I thought about searching it on your blog. How come you’ve made passing mention and yet you haven’t written a review? And can you or anyone recommend similar shows?

  9. Anon says:

    I’m a couple episodes behind. I don’t have much motivation to continue. This season has been really dull and drawn out.

  10. Houlgrave says:

    It’s only dull if you have ADD kid.

    Gotta say, Spice & Wolf II is the best show that aired this season IMO, if for nothing else than watching Lawrence’s growth as a character. It’s always nice to have a main male lead that doesn’t feel contrived!

    On another note, I’m fairly sure a third season will be coming at some point.

  11. PL says:

    I wish you had blogged both seasons of this show, I think it is one of the most solid stories I’ve seen told in this medium. Nothing ever felt contrived, except as one of the posters above mentioned, sometimes when Lawrence was explaining some aspect of mercantilism, but that was always so fascinating I didn’t care. I’ve never cared about a romantic relationship in anime as much as I did Lawrence and Horo’s. Every time it looked like they were going to lose each other I felt the same emotional impact I used to feel as a kid when one of my puppy love relationships was ending, that queasy, empty dull ache that accompanies heartbreak. While there are other shows I’ve enjoyed watching more, there are few that made me feel as strongly as this one.

  12. specracer says:

    I’ll wait for the third season. The ending was so an opening for a third season.

  13. Reltair says:

    The witty banter between Horo and Lawrence is what makes Spicey Wolf shine. The ending definitely doesn’t resolve standing issues. Here’s to a third season!

  14. WatcherZero says:

    To the person above asking what the point of the deal is with Amarati, Lawrence was taking Horo for granted and she was trying to prove to him that he didnt own her but she did want to be with him.

  15. BashZeStampeedo says:

    I disagree that this ending was perfect. There is too much still going on, and even the core romance in the story feels more tenuous than it did in the first season’s ending.

    I’d say this season is as good as the first one overall, and agree with this reviewer. The obvious flaws in pacing and animation are made up for by the story focusing more on the “meat” of the story; the romance. In the end it saves itself by doing that.

    The characters also develop quite well, though the focus is mostly on Lawrence. His growth is very impressive, and the sacrifices he makes are quite touching. Horo’s growth shows just how fragile, selfish, proud and damaged she really is.. which is a nice touch that could have easily been made trite and unrealistic if they went too far against her core character.

    So after season two, the main characters are no longer “boring merchant Lawrence who is always saved by sassy wolf-goddess Horo”.. they are now characters you will want to invest your time and emotions into. Lawrence has proven himself a worth character, and Horo has proven that she really is a character of her own and not a stereotype. A good effort for a production that’s obviously got almost no budget :S

  16. Shiro, Long Tail's says:

    You mentioned that the second season builds off the first season’s character development. How detrimental would it be to watch the second season if you hadn’t finished the first but are informed of it’s plot?

  17. BashZeStampeedo says:

    @Shiro

    I would not recommend watching just the second season. There is a lot of character development and series-establishing material that honestly gives the second season a lot more impact.

    The first season is well worth the watch so you get used to how the main characters interact. The second season takes those interactions and really runs with them, so it might lose you completely.

  18. Peter says:

    What are you guys saying, perfect ending?! Did you see the kiss? It was so … i dont know unclimatic and dull . Really season1>season2

  19. deaky says:

    Just finished this one, and I feel TERRIBLE for prioritizing that obnoxious Bakemonogatari instead of this. S&W is leagues beyond it, and is now one of the very few franchises I actually want to see continued.

    I actually watched this season three times, because none of the fansubbers did it justice (not their fault), and because it plays with perspectives masterfully. We get Lawrence’s self-deprecative perspective, but it’s always clear that behind-the-scenes there’s a slightly different story taking place.

    It’s a real brain-buster if you aren’t paying attention and don’t realize that the two of them are trying to avoid falling for each other, because they think they’ll part ways soon at Yoitsu.

    @WatcherZero

    That’s not quite true. It was never about him “owning” her or anything like that. Even after she deflated his ego for “liking her when she was weak” she even admitted that she liked to see HIM feeling defeated just as much. She’s actually afraid of him falling in love with her, after all.

    Horo was at just upset that Lawrence left her alone with Amati to “do business”, and then had the gall to send Amati to do his job. But she wasn’t really very upset. She clearly conned Amati, so that Lawrence would be forced to lavish her with attention, and see the error of his ways (and earn him some silver so he’d not have to “do business” as much the next time).

    @Perrin4869

    In episode 4, Lawrence finally gets up the courage to confront Horo, but sees a marriage certificate waiting for him, along with evidence that Amati is about to “win”. This was a totally boneheaded and unnecessary move from Horo, since if he was already at the inn it’s because he was going to meet her.. no need to get him more angry.

    He gets angry alright, but he thinks it’s Horo telling him that he has to win her back. This kicks his brain into mad-merchant overdrive and he finally figures out how to crash the market for pyrite.

    You see, he needs cold, hard cash to buy enough pyrite to crash it’s market value. But he doesn’t have nearly enough, so what to do? He masterfully cons Amati to get 500 silver to buy that Pyrite.

    Remember that “right now”, 500 silver of pyrite may be only be worth say 3 pieces of Pyrite. So Lawrence will have to give him 3 pieces of pyrite tomorrow as per the contract. Since it will be worth even more then, Amati’s confused.

    He is riled up into thinking that Lawrence is merely challenging him to earn ANOTHER 500 silver of pyrite to get the 1000 he needs to win Holo tomorrow. Because he thinks Lawrence is treating him like an idiot, he treats Lawrence like an idiot in turn. Lawrence of course is shitting bricks the whole time, thinking Amati will figure it out.. but he doesn’t.

    That’s why Lawrence is “safe”.. Lawrence is using Amati’s own money to crash the market. Because tomorrow, the 3 pieces of pyrite will be worthless, and so giving them to Amati won’t cost him anything. Of course, there are complications, like Lawrence not actually having any sources to buy the Pyrite from.

    Hope that answers your question, just a little late :)

  20. blaze says:

    i saw the second season on animefreak it was good but i also hated it becuase ofall the heart break that holo and lawrence go thru

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Anonymous870083
mm okay thanks!
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Think you might just have to go with a torrent. It's pretty hard to find direct download anime these days.
Anonymous870541
the latest episode of rakugo just made my heart sank. i didn't think it would get better than it already is. i thank god that i didn't read ahead
Anonymous870083
does anyone know where I can download the remastered version of the Utena series? without torrent?
SuperMario
the same very thought here Lenlo. What I considered the weakest part turned out to be so layered. Sorry for ever doubting you, Rakugo.
Lenlo
And that smirk at the end, beautiful
Lenlo
The weakest plot point of S1 has just become the best part ever.
Lenlo
OOH MAN. I was not ready. The entire first season was all a setup. I cant. What. HOW DOES IT GET BETTER
Lenlo
Cant wait to watch Rakugo tonight, just got home and im lookin forward to it,.
AidanAK47
I think before grabbing the protest signs it might be worth considering if the thing you are demanding be uncensored is even worth it. Oh yeah, now you can see genitalia in crap sex scenes that were crow bared into the plot. No more need to use your imagination.
AidanAK47
Some protest because they want there porn. That I suppose I can understand even if I think they would be better off buying some nukige. But then there are those who demand it just for the sake of standing against censorship. They don't give a crap about the game or the fact we are getting the exact same thing the japanese got. What? Censorship of sexual organs? DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!
AidanAK47
There are people actively proclaiming they won't buy the game, because they can't see dicks. That is not hyperbole. This is literally exactly whats happening here. And they just act so goddamn self righteous about it. Porn is not the goddamn point of these games. Shouldn't even be in them in the first place.
AidanAK47
So another Sekai Kickstarter is up for a trilogy of Visual novels called A Clockwork Ley-Line. Chipped in my bit as I am going to be buying this regardless but like goddamn clockwork you get the idiots yelling for Mosaic removal. No matter how I try to rationalize it, this just sounds stupid.
Kaiser Eoghan
Just whenever I think Rakugo may be dragging its feet it comes out a gives me three big strong moments in this weeks episode, you will know them when you come to them.
K-Off
Dubbing in more subdued performances work fine. It just becomes unbearable when it involves shouty dialogue, which idescribes most of the Japanese games I play.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I think at the time it allowed Bagel (where did he go?) to find some exploit/gap in the sites security too.
SuperMario
I mean the spoiler code in the comment section. ^^. Like I don't mind if readers give (potential) spoilers but I don't want to ruin the fun of other readers as well
AidanAK47
After all it wasn't a intended feature of the old shoutbox. We were pretty much hacking the thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
I seem to remember all those old html codes stopped working on the old shoutbox too at one point.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was also originally an ability to animate text too of the shoutbox and have gifs appear in the message box but not as links.
AidanAK47
I remember some HTML code worked with the old shoutbox but nope. But I suppose you could change the colour of text to white...though that would effect everything you write.
SuperMario
Btw, do we have spoiler tag here Aidan?
SuperMario
@anon861679: Agreed. They have big ambitions, but they seems unsure on what to do next. I mean engaging your readers to give their thoughts is good, but if it is a mean for you to get inspiration to write essay about isn't that great. Well, give them say 6 months until they can settle down (they just launched this site for 3,4 months only)
Kaiser Eoghan
Despite being fine with anime in English, I've almost always felt that voice acting in videogames isn't as good.
Anonymous861679
Hey mario, that anime feminist blog was well, kind of awful. While they're well intentioned, it felt like they were pushing tumblr stuff onto chan stuff and that always ends up in a smoking mess.
SuperMario
Okay I'm going to erase my memories right now
SuperMario
I swear I'll stay off reddit for good. Have been spoiled by the development of ACCA by one of their "theory". As soon as I realized it's freaking spoiler I stopped but what done is done. Ahhhhhhhhhh
K-Off
Christ Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty addicting, micro transactions are not necessary at all. Though it irks me that I can't get Japanese voices. Dubs just make me cringe every time.
SuperMario
@ckspike: Hand Shakers, the very quality that makes you brain cells die while watching it. Well, I actually think the music is one of the best part of the show, now that you mention it like that...well...*slap my forehead*
ckspike
... my roommate just told me the background music when I'm watching Hand Shakers sounds like a bad porno... Now I can't unhear it. Fuck!
Lenlo
I havnt kept up with Academia, for some reason it just didnt catch me as well as the movie first did.
AidanAK47
You know what's funny? I thought little Witch Academia would be the hardest one to blog. Yet halfway into the current season and it's the one I write the most about.
Lenlo
I actually dont read many blogs. Mostly just this place and the occasional pop on reddit
Anonymous859067
I'd like to present to one of my favorite blogs, A work I just created: Greed Island! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tc2r.greedisland
AidanAK47
I go to Reddit anime myself but I don't really like the upvote system. Basically the majority rule opinions get put to the top which more often than not are jokes.
HelghastKillzone
I listen to podcasts on youtube and others places as well as going on Reddit Anime to hear a thousand people yammering away.
Kaiser Eoghan
I irregularly follow the episode reviews on ANN and sometimes read standing on my neck. I fell out of the habit of following random curiousity.
SuperMario
Anime Feminist (animefeminist.com), while sounds ambitious on paper, hasn't been too hot unfortunately. I know they aim to be "big" so they're still figuring out how to do it best. Well, good luck for them!
SuperMario
Oh, I know I've mentioned this site before but you guys should read it (blog.sakugabooru.com), this site is one of the only few blogs that I actively subscribed to read their post. They have some insights to the anime industry that is very informative and inspiring
SuperMario
I also think that this chatbox here plays a great role to keep a fair amount of readers for the site, as many sometimes just come here to give their two cents on certain anime.
SuperMario
I just checked out rabujoi blof for the first time, (https://rabujoi.wordpress.com) and I think they're in pretty good shape. Content-wise are solid (as far as I read), and they update their post pretty regularly (comparing their amount of posts last month (80) to ours (28), ouch)
SuperMario
Just really wonder, what are other anime sites that you guys follow beside this? Well, ANN and RandomC are a given, but I found myself haven't bothered to read ANN's episodic reviews lately (mostly due to time constraint)
AidanAK47
Don't tell me this is gonna be a regular thing.
Lenlo
There we go
Lenlo
Oh god JSON objects. I thought that nightmare was over
SuperMario
Mine is working probably as well. Thanks a bunch K-Off and glad to hear back from you.
K-Off
No problem.
K-Off
I really need to figure out how to get those damn tooltips working again on the sidebar thumbnails. It'd be useful to have the descriptions popup.
AidanAK47
Cleared my cache and it looks to be fixed. Thanks as always K-Off. I would be completely screwed without you around.
K-Off
Alright I think that did it. Let me know if it pops up again. If you still see it, clear your browser cache and let me know if its still there.
AidanAK47
Messages still get sent. You just might have to reload the page. We are working on getting it fixed.
Vonter
AidanAK47 I can't get into Fate since like with Nanoha there's a lot of stuff with those names in it. Zero was the most straightforward, yet the buildup was very dragout but the payoffs where very worthy.
HelghastKillzone
testing message.
AidanAK47
This is what I get for updating the bloody plugin.....
AidanAK47
He finished it and was telling me what he thought of Saber defeating Gilgamesh. Minute he said that I was like "OH GOD..." He watched the Deen 2006 adaption. Sadly it loos like he's not going to bother watching UBW TV despite me showing him part of the berserker fight. With Fate/Extra, Fate/Grand Order, Fate/Apocrypha, Fate/Oath under the snow and all the rest this problem will happen again.
AidanAK47
You know I wish the Fate series did a better job naming it's series. I was introducing a newbie so I gave him Fate/Zero first. He loved it so I specifically told him to watch the UBW TV Series and don't mistake it for the movie. He then went and watched the movie. I told him to watch the TV series regardless and brought up the MAL page to show him which one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, there's definately no harm in doing further reading on more arthouse stuff before reviewing it/watching/after watching, it extends our understanding and is pretty much required.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Go for it, you might sell me on reading it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah, I generally only write reviews every now and then, and they tend to be kept simple and to 200-300 words. My writing ability only really works when I write in stream of consciousness.
Anonymous855550
Zestiria is such a feast for the eyes... The colors and backgrounds are so vivid and magnificent. Story has improved on the game's weaknesses too!
Lenlo
Given enough time, im sure I could write something, but as I writer I tend towards quick, decisive statements of what I think and why. Engineer, so technical documents are like the only thing I know how to write.
Topgavin
@Supermario ah, I'd say I'm the opposite in that I sometimes don't know why I like something so much, and when I read a review about it I can relate my own experiences and put it in my own words pretty well. Can thank Highschool eco for that
SuperMario
But to tell you guys the truth, I never think that I'm cut out as a reviewer (even now), because I'm a type of viewer who more perceive (I know why I like/ don't like stuffs) than express (just can't never explain stuffs well)
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it's depending on what grabbing you really; as I always find shows with heavy symbolisms like Penguindrum or Flip Flappers the easiest to dig deeper. But those are always my kind of show to begin with
Topgavin
I'd find it really hard to write something about a show without reading about it first; watching it one time by myself I usually only notice the big things. Stuff like Flip Flappers I had no clue what half the episode's hidden meanings were, can't imagine reviewing a show like NGE or penguindrum.
SuperMario
that's exactly how I write my reviews anyways
Lenlo
I cant imagine writing a review, id just repeat myself with different words but the same intended meaning over and over again
AidanAK47
Wonder if I should write a review of this. Might be hard without giving too much away.
AidanAK47
(Finishes Sweetest monster Visual novel)
.....well....fuck.
(Buys all authors visual novels on steam.)
Lenlo
Sadly, I doubt Nioh will get a PC port. Sony is pretty stingy on their exclusives, like Bloodborne. But I am so very happy with Nioh. I love technical combat like this
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose this means I'm looking into this rpg maker game thing now isn't it? Might aswell.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the word animerican used to describe things like avatar last airbender. Filthy word =P
Anonymous853606
God no. Jiro Taniguchi died.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I have been hearing very good things about Nioh. Really hoping it gets a PC port.
@Topgavin, No real surprises there.
Topgavin
I'm sure most of you have heard, but looks like New Game is getting a season 2 out of all things. Apparently they had good sales, and I can certainly see why. CGDCT with yuri undertones and clean animation is hard to get wrong, let alone not sell.
Lenlo
Just started with Nioh, and oh my goodness do I love it.
Anonymous852887
anyone play resident evil 7? its so good.
AidanAK47
Thought that's because the term American Anime just feels wrong to me on all levels.
AidanAK47
@Anon, they do not. They are cartoons.
Anonymous852775
DO people call D.C. Comics animated movies American anime?
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am certainly interested in seeing the next episode. Those minisodes were pretty good too. One thing I thought the writting faltered on though was the comedy. It really was a little too slapstick considering how serious the drama was.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: ah remind me the time I went to Texas (Corpus Christy) before X-mas time and I was wearing short pants and thongs (nice!!!), then went all the way up to Niagara Falls and I was almost freezing there.
Lenlo
See, I love winter, but its almost non-existent in Texas
Anonymous852268
@Aidan: I agree. I loved To the Moon. It's so good seeing emotional drama that isn't centered around high-school kids. Seeing the ups and downs of a whole long life of a person gives everything that happens way more impact.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: An Australian friend put it as "A sunbaked rock in summer, a giant zoo, that actively tries to kill its population"
SuperMario
Not that I'm enjoying the winter either. Why autumn always go so fast?
SuperMario
Believe me but summer here is way too much. When it's too hot and dry it starts bushfiring really badly. And it's too hot that even a big fan straight in front of you don't do you any good
Kaiser Eoghan
What is this mysterious creature known as summer you refer to? =P My country is grey as a black and white film =P
SuperMario
I'm wondering how freezing you guys have to endure right now, but the place I came today in Aussie just reached 50 degree celsius this noon. So hot I felt myself burning
Lenlo
I think the part I liked the most, was just how satisfying those mud splatter sounds were. I dont know why, but its in my head
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki 6 subs came out at 11pm PST.
Lenlo
Atleast Rakugo didnt get held up. Still amazing as ever
AidanAK47
Well I spent my time waiting for it to come out by playing and finishing To the Moon. Got to say, it takes some real skill to make a game in RPGmaker that can make you really feel something. But maybe I am just a sucker for this kind of story.
SuperMario
Hey, I would be very frustrating if Hand shakers got delayed. But I agree this delay is caused by Being X. And Scum's Wish, haizzz, this is the show we love to get pissed at. Haha
Anonymous850298
I blame Being X.
AidanAK47
Sigh, Youjo Senki 6 is delayed. Why is it always the best shows that get delayed? If an episode of hand Shakers was delayed no one would give a crap but nope. Gotta be the show you want to watch right away.
AidanAK47
@Anon, in both anime and manga I never liked that character much.
Anonymous849783
Meh, dropped Masamune-kun. Seriously why do they always have to shove in these one dimensional characters with a crush out of f* nowhere. It never made any of these shows more interesting, it's always the opposite.
Vonter
@Kaiser Eoghan - I find it weird having the teacher being so unashamedly evil. In a way I like that, but at the same time I can't relate to the notion of people like that existing IRL.
Kaiser Eoghan
As I continue to watch scums wish, it becomes an anger inducing as much as it is engrossing experience.
AidanAK47
Or the UBW movie over the TV series. You just don't do that.
AidanAK47
That's like recommending someone to watch NGE death and rebirth instead of the TV series.
Kaiser Eoghan
Meh, I just got fed up with the padding in the tv version.
AidanAK47
Jojo has the kind of entertainment that clicks with you or doesn't so I understand if you didn't get into it. Though to give it a fair chance I would recommend trying the first episodes of Battle Tendency. It starts at episode 10 of the first season, you can jump to it. If that doesn't catch you then Jojos really isn't for you.
AidanAK47
Don't listen to Kaiser. The OVA is bad.
Kaiser Eoghan
....found out where a friend had been off to lately, making a movie and he ended up actually making and finishing and I got first dibs. Had a hard time commenting on it as I know the guy personally.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Totally with you on the academy thing.
@Lenlo: If you ever try jojo again and get onto part three go for the ova instead as it trims down an overly bloated arc.
Lenlo
For JoJos, I couldnt get through the first season. It just didnt hook me
Lenlo
What I dont understand is how anything other than Mob Psycho won best animation, cause my god.
Lenlo
I think Erased lost not because of the libido, but because Yuri was "gay" and "progressive" and most important of all, recent. Yuri had just finished airing so it was stuck in everyones heads. Of course it was going to win everything
AidanAK47
Erased truly deserved to win that category and it only lost because people voted with their libido instead of their head.
AidanAK47
If there's one thing that really makes me angry about these awards it's Yuri on Ice winning most heartwarming moment for "The Kiss". Because A) It wasn't a fucking kiss and B) Even if it was that isn't heartwarming. Oh I am sure something is getting warm but it sure as hell isn't your heart.
AidanAK47
Likely the main reason Kira didn't win main villain because Jojo has grown to a episode count which makes people hesitant to pick it up. Not to mention many would lose interest by Stardust crusaders midpoint.
AidanAK47
When it comes to judging quality you have to leave it to the people who have experienced enough of the medium to truly be able to critical judge it. Pretty darn sure most who voted didn't even bother watching everything worthwhile each season and just gravitated towards whatever they were exposed to.
AidanAK47
Lets not forget someone voting multiple times and bot voting. Because yes, people really do that. As you two pointed out, a public vote was never truly going to be a accurate gauge of quality. For you are not only opening the vote to anime lovers but also newbies and those who simply haven't refined their tastes yet.
SuperMario
so they either abstained their votes (which actually was reasonable); voted for something popular or even voted based on what their kids liked the most (which was flat out unforgivable).
SuperMario
This from my own frustration mostly when it comes to awards like this. But I've been following the Academy Awards for way too long now and every now and then you heard something that really disheartened about their voting process. Like for example many of the Academy members admitted that they don't care to watch anything animated because... it's kiddy stuff
SuperMario
TL;DR: my point is I have mixed feeling about the whole Crunchyroll awards. One more thing that I noticed about the nomination is that the pool was dominated by shows from the first half of last year.
Lenlo
I dont think public voting is the way to go is the thing. Popularity contests are horrible. With popularity contests moe is going to be near the top every time, while shows like Rakugo never really have a chance. And I think there is little doubt that Rakugo was one of the best shows last season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: there is an issue with the first thou, because reviewers like us don't actually represent the whole public opinions. So it's all come down to the very reason they create an award in a 1st place (your second point). But with voting we can't really reason why the winners win the trophy, right?
Lenlo
The problem with awards like that is for them to mean anything they need 2 things. 1) A board of voters who are actual reviewers who have watched a large portion of what was on shelf that season. 2) Reasons for why each thing won its award. An award without reasons means nothing
SuperMario
Other issue about voting for these awards is that the nominating body and the voting body aren't always the same. Usually the voting body is broader and more generic in taste, so I'm not at all surprised when shows like Rakugo couldn't win. Too art-house for their liking. Well, at least it got nominated which for me is good enough.
SuperMario
That's the thing. When it comes to awards, they are more 'popularity' contest than actual quality, since people tend to vote for the safer choice (the one that are both popular and mildly critical success), YOI fits the bill here.
Lenlo
Those awards were not the best and little more then a popularity contest imo.
SuperMario
Actually with that line-up I had no problems with YOI taking the top spot
SuperMario
I actually forgot about the Crunchyroll Anime Awards so I came to check the winner. Guess which show won AOTY huh? Alright, at least it wasn't Kabaneri or Jokers Game
Kaiser Eoghan
But the best one was Mask of Phantasm.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: And return of the joker also.
Kaiser Eoghan
It has aged admittedly very poorly, but I always got a great kick out of that old 1994 spiderman cartoon.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I think its fair to use the term K-anime or C-anime for the Korean and Chinese influenced stuff, or maybe just anime would be just as appropriate. If some Argentinian guy can write/draw a manga for a Japanese manga magazine (big comic superior thats the magazines name) and have it actually be called a manga, it should be the same for China/Korea.
Lenlo
Mhmm. Marvel had the movies, but DC had the animated series
AidanAK47
Man, I loved the villains of Batman Beyond. Inque and Shriek had such interesting powers. The DC animated shows tended to be the one that didn't treat you like a kid while watching.
Lenlo
Well, they released a trailer for Samurai Jack S5, so its coming. Batman Beyond I also enjoyed
AidanAK47
Ah Samurai Jack. Wonder how that Adult swim revival is going? Batman the Animated Series as well didn't need Batman to crack off jokes every minute to be great.
Lenlo
Agreed. Samurai Jack was one of my favorite cartoons for that very reason. It ran the gamut of genres, each episode being something different.
Also I used Nichijou cause it was the first to come to my mind as a "Kids Show", though Love-Ru works as well
AidanAK47
One thing I think Cartoons could do to move away from the stigma of being for kids is having more genres than Comedy and Action adventure. Or at least stop putting comedy in everything.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Every fanbase has it's fanatics. There are idiots everywhere.
@Lenlo, I thought this might come up though I was expecting more of "placing Berserk and To Love-Ru in the same category" thing. Honestly I don't have a rebuttal for that. What is an isn't anime is really a matter of what anime is to you.
Lenlo
Now Aidan, you say putting Berserk and Scoopy doo in the same category is wrong, but what about Berserk and say.. Nichijou? A similar problem comes up and I think thats more to do with Berserk being a pretty major outlier (And I love it for being so. Have all the original Dark Horse volumes on my shelf)
Lenlo
Really though, reading Reddit arguments about it is so much fun.
Lenlo
I do think that recently, a number of shows have been trying to move cartoon, and animation in general in the west, away from meaning "For Kids".
Lenlo
Im not sure sure about that Anon, look at the Steven Universe and MLP fanbases.
Anonymous840067
Aidan, that isn't true... Anime has a 'special' name because it's fan base is a lot more fanatical than the cartoon fan base.
AidanAK47
Though I think the whole "Its not for kids" is the main push. Looking at my anime collection the majority is rated 15 with a few 12s. It's like the way you have Young Adult and mature, Comic books and graphic novels, or Visual novels and Eroge. They are essentially the same thing but appeal to different audiences.
AidanAK47
Though I think what really pushes this argument is that the term anime at least has a badge of honor. You don't see people demanding a show to be called a cartoon.
AidanAK47
Honestly the term anime is just a distinction to separate it from the more kiddy stuff. The term cartoon in the western world is too ingrained with the likes of Hanna Barbera or loony toons. No matter how you put it, putting Scooby Doo and Berserk in the same category is just wrong.
SuperMario
Then would you consider Korean, Chinese anime-influenced shows as anime? (I would) and those anime that aimed for Western audience (like Animatrix) as anime? (I would too)
SuperMario
But then we have something like Thunderbolt Fantasy lasy year which if I go for this defination (style) then it isn't anime at all, yet I would categorize it as anime
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