Posted by psgels on 25 September 2009 with categories: Phantom



Whoa, wtf…

Throughout this episode, I had no idea what the people in the shoutbox were talking about. I mean, it was an awesome episode that did just about everything it should have done: exciting gunfight, after which Scythe dies and Reiji and Helen live on, trying to search for Helen’s origins. After a bit of searching, they find that she was taken from Mongolia when she was little. It was a very fitting ending for my favourite series for the past half year.

Then the episode actually ended, and I understood. That really was daring from the creators: just when everything seems solved, they pull such a surprise ending that nobody saw coming, and they don’t even dare to explain what happened. Out of nowhere, a gunshot sounds, and both Reiji and Helen die. No extremely long death speeches, no overdramatic buildup. It’s just there, and less than a minute later they’re dead. it’s entirely left up to our imagination what happened.

And yet, somehow it made me like this ending even more. My theory of what happened is that McGuire is behind it. Something like “don’t mess with the mafia”, and he probably ordered assassins to track Ein and Zwei down. He previously left this to Scythe Master and Drei, but since the two of them failed he tried to do this a bit more subtle. Whatever assassins came, they figured that the most likely place that they would be able to find them was Ein’s place of birth. They knew this through Scythe, and they probably picked up a hint somewhere that Reiji and Helen were searching for it. After that, they only had to wait and snipe them when they arrived.

It just shows that there’s nothing like a happy end in the mafia. I really liked this ending because it didn’t try to overglorify the death of the two protagonists. It was a really subtle finale, and that’s something I can really appreciate. I admire Bee-Trains’s guts for trying to pull such an ending.

Overall, this has been such a wonderful series. It’s definitely in my Top 3 of Bee-Train series, along with Popolocrois and .Hack//Sign. It had such an amazing sense of subtlety, and yet at others it packed such a punch. With a fantastic soundtrack and a terrific sense of characterization (well, for me at least), I really consider this series to be the best of the past half year, and I’m looking forward to Bee-Train’s next series in 2010, whatever it may be about.
Rating: ** (Excellent)

EDIT: crap, I misunderstood this ending. Only Reiji died, Helen remained alive. Still, that doesn’t change my opinion, this episode rocked. Unless you want happy endings, of course. ;)

EDOT2: Major SPOILER for El Cazador!
After this, I still want to add a bit to the huge rage of people that seem to be unhappy over this episode. Watch El Cazador. that one has a happy ending in which the two progaonists live together happily ever after. Ironically, I remember how that ending also wasn’t well received. Ironic, isn’t it?

46 Responses

  1. Perrin4869 says:

    The thing is that Ein didn’t seem very dead to me at all. I think just Reiji died. And did you really think the whole fight with SM’s Phantoms was good? They died like stupid flies! They were supposed to be his masterpiece!
    I’m too tired now to write a good troll though. Expect one in the review after I get some rest…

  2. psgels psgels says:

    In my eyes, they weren’t his masterpiece. They were his masterpiece in his eyes, which Helen proved wrong when she kicked their ass easily with their own moves.

    Also, how much did you bet again on Claudia coming back to life? ;)

  3. Tan-Tan says:

    Like I said in random curiosity, there’s a meaning behind Reiji’s sudden death, which makes it tragic.

    Reiji said he doesn’t want to die so he can fulfill that one promised. He finally fulfilled it, and then…

    Technically, that’s a happy ending for Reiji. It’s what he wanted.

  4. windy says:

    I loved this quite mysterious ending that leaves it up to our imagination to decide what will happen next ! This ending reminded me the final episode of Noir, where we hear the sound of two gunshots and it’s up to us to believe the characters dead or alive, a sad ending indeed, now I think they ended up dead, but that one was also a symbolic ending that so amazed me! In this episode of Phantom I also got the impression that Elen wasn’t aware of the fact that Reiji has been shot and thought him justlaying on the grass, but I’m not sure, she smiled though, and at the very end we see another gun near there. Well, even if Elen survived at the end, she may be killed off later on , I think it’s unavoidable, it’s like they can only find peace in death itself, and she said to Scythe master she would soon join him in hell, which may actually mean she wanted to see the place of her birth before going to the world above, the sky is omnipresent in this episode, symbolizing heaven and the everlasting peace.

  5. meow says:

    Ok. I’m shocked. ^^

    Haven’t seen 26 yet but the ending sounds weird. Why kill only Reiji? What about Elen? Did Elen take out the sniper before she could be killed too? Or is the audience fooled by Reiji’s final vision of Elen’s ghost before he dies?

    Well, I suppose Reiji’s karma finally caught up to him. I didn’t mind him dying, but I would have preferred if he died so Elen and Cal might live. If she survived, she winds up alone and she’s already confessed that she can’t live without Reiji so, yea..this is a pretty bad ending. In the end, the bad guys (Inferno) won. Hm…did the game end this way too? I thought Reiji and Elen managed to get away in the game. Sorry to say, this is the kind of story I hate and try to avoid. As expected of the director who created Noir.

  6. Camario says:

    Yes, that’s why I wasn’t really sure about what to think about it at first…but speaking logically it made complete sense and does go along with the tragic nature of most of the story. After a few hours of sleep, I actually like it.

    It’s still not completely clear whether she will even want to live without Reiji though, so it’s not a matter of whether you misunderstood the ending or not, but that’s precisely the point: the whole thing is left up to interpretation.

    Could the story have ended in a different way? Yes, that’s why the game had multiple endings. There were some happy endings, of course, but almost always someone had to die in the process. The anime staff chose to surprise even the visual novel fans by taking an existing ending and adding that last bit of revenge from the mafia underworld, which was appropriate yet also quite bitter. The story is flexible enough to accomodate that outcome as an additional possibility, so in the end I’m very satisfied with the anime despite the fact this isn’t my favorite ending in and of itself.

  7. hairgreen says:

    they don’t need to kill of Renji..I mean, what’s the point in terms of the story? every conflict is resolved.

  8. ShionBaka says:

    It not really that the bad guys (Inferno) won. Since Its immpossiable for them and the life of the underworld to lose. Though Reiji and Ellen or Cal could go after them.. there would always be people to replace the ones they kill. This anime is not a Shounen title.

    Really Reiji was a dead man.. Even if Inferno wasn’t after him. From all the people he killed its not haard to beleive that at least one person would want revenge.Revenge and more so Betrayal is a key theme in the show.

    Helen remained alive, but who seriously thinks she will live? taking everything into account. Weather it was she kill’s herself or Inferno does.

    Interesing though since it didn’t really end as Reiji Ellen couple ending. No Marr. P No being together foever scene. They just felt close as they did at the end of the first Arc. And Reiji was just trying to do the same thing. I’m sure Bee-train also did that on purpose.

  9. yukifiverings says:

    I don’t think Elen was ever a target. Probably was considered already dead. After all Scythe would not want to advertise her existence, given that it would implicate him in earlier events between the Godoh group and Inferno. It makes sense that only Reiji would be on the chopping block. Boy I did not see that coming. Hardcore ending.

  10. R4diance says:

    why after Reiji dies she turn around and smile? she must see his body, they were near.

  11. panaghoy88 says:

    I’m just pissed that Reiji got shot despite being shown as the best assassin. They could have justified his death with a really impossible to survive situation. It really hurts the fans. And come on, as if we weren’t sick of protagonists dying in such a lame way. I have watched enough animes and movies to not get “surprised” by this.

  12. radical_dan says:

    There wouldn’t be so much raging if Reiji was killed in battle. It just seems a waste to get to the end and have Ein turn around and kill him. Its an obvious plot device to incite discussion. In the end, Reiji and Ein are only throwaway characters for the geniuses at Bee Train.

  13. psgels psgels says:

    dan: wait, did Ein kill Reiji? I didn’t see a gun in her hand though. I thought he was killed by that passing cart.

    Also, why would that make the characters throwaway for Bee-Train, just because they were killed off?

    panaghoy: you can be an excellent assassin, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be killed when you have your guard down. I mean, to have seen that gunshot coming you need to have the paranoia of a drugs dealer, who are completely different people.

  14. Perrin4869 says:

    In the end no one wanted to take bets, fortunately :)
    Anyways, see the full troll at the review post.

  15. watashi says:

    The ending was interesting, though I am not sure whether I like the fact it wasn’t fully explained. However, I really didn’t see that final scene coming, even though all the time I guessed which route the story would follow. I am glad the creators took liberties. The dialog between Elen and Scythe was surely long. Have to wait for the subs to understand it. I also wanted a little more over-the-top action from the final episode.

    Overall the series was pretty good. It was refreshing to follow a seinen series. Music was great and I have to say some tunes were actually variations from the original themes (at least Cal’s pocket watch theme). Nice that it was considered. There were some flaws with the series. I don’t clearly remember the scene where Ein was shot while rescuing Scythe, but so far I have thought Ein was too far away to be able to stop the bullet. These “off-screen” deaths, which are a clichee, were the biggest flaw of the series, but I knew to expect those after the visual novel.

    If I had to pick up my favorite between summer animes Phantom and Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, my choice would be Tokyo Magnitude. Tokyo Magnitude was more unique and surprising (well, I still knew how the story would go with Phantom). It may be true, I enjoyed Phantom more though. Of course, these two are completely different genre and that’s why not that well comparable.

  16. someguy says:

    That Death (if Reiji was killed by the passing Cart) is the most fitting way for him to get killed. Inferno Do not like to Create a Big scene. And this is the way inferno kills people. With little or No scene. Now Rejij Not trying to explain or work things off with Cal and it the end coming arcoss as an Idiot or an Asshole was the low point in the show.

    The anime did a decent job but it still cant compare to the VN.

  17. Rawr says:

    It’s a bit of a stretch considering Reiji and Elen were supposed to be like godlike assassins. I find it hard to believe they would have let their guard down long enough to let someone have a shot at them, even if it were a sniper.

  18. Observant says:

    That wasnt a gun at the end it was just the bullet shell. A hand gun shell from the person either riding in or driving the wagon that drove behind him. Not to mention there was 1 of the “Masterpiece” girls left alive. The one with the cracked mask.

    I agree that this ending was very good. But at the same time I would have liked at the very least to know for sure who killed Reiji.

  19. someone says:

    What the hell? the ending didn’t make sense at all. Reiji and Elen have like esp like super powers sensing people that are aiming at them, yet Reiji just stands there in the end and doesn’t even realize he’s shot? If he died in another way, it would make a lot more sense, like if he was poisoned or something.

  20. ryvrdrgn14 says:

    I want my happy ending! *sniff* ToT

  21. Skraps says:

    Killing Reji at that point served no real purpose, wish I knew what the authors were going for when they decided to do that.

    With a name like Requiem for the Phantom, their shouldn’t be much of a surprise that either one of them died but thought I was hoping for more of an impact. Can’t wait for the funimation dub for this series.

    (Goddam Lelouch and C.C stay in your own mess of an anime and stop trying to fuck up the ending to perfectly good one).

  22. plotholemuch? says:

    Seriously.

    They go threw the entire show being bad asses. At the very end after traveling into some back water part of mongolia Inferno some how magically sets it up for some dude on a horse cart to shoot the greatest assassin on the planet in the back.

    Rigggghhhhht

    This ending is shit. It doesn’t provoke any discussion other then how terrible the writers are. I hope they never do another ending scene, because god they’d screw up another (otherwise good) anime.

  23. PhantomEnding says:

    It was…an interesting ending, to say the very least. If anyone didn’t notice, at the ending, in once sceen, a blossom of nightshade is shown with all of its petals, and after reiji gets killed, they show the same blossom but a petal is missing. Nightshade is pretty damn poisonous, so I’m assuming Elen ate it and killed herself.

    I think Reiji knew he was going to die, and just didn’t do anything about it. I’m pretty sure they are both happy with the way things ended. And the reason Elen smiles at the end is in order for reiji to die happily , because he was finally able to keep his promise and make Elen truly smile.

  24. psgels psgels says:

    To all those wondering why such a great assassin as Reiji would not have seen this coming: how would he have been able to avoid it? I mean, the guy on the cart was also a professional assassin who blended into his environment, and this isn’t the first time in which Inferno out-witted Reiji (like, he also never saw the explosion in his apartment coming).

  25. KamikazeSim says:

    Man, the more I have watched the last 2 minutes, I think Elen was killed with Reiji.

    She smiles and then she fades away symbolically. Then we find her laying STILL on the ground with no movement and the one petal off the flower is gone. Even though they only show one bullet shell at the end, that could be another hint that that bullet was for Elen since we saw Reiji die. Hell the episode was named after her.

    I think they were both killed. If Reiji was that close to her, why would the assassin kill just him but let her live? It was a double whack job I bet.

  26. Runekilla says:

    I knew atleast one of them will die from the start but I didn’t expect on how abrupt it was. It’s kind of cruel of letting Reiji just die like that at the end. He survived countless fights which were way harder but he ends up dieing in the most simplest way. I guess it just shows anything can happen in the world of the mafia.

  27. Eddie says:

    I have to say, this was the ending I feared from the beginning. This kind of ending has been done in all kinds of genres (from hollywood to anime:think ‘the departed’) now so many times that it is a cop-out rather than some brave writing twist. The characters get to die without struggle in their happiest moments, rather than have to live on with the weight of their past, allowing the writers to cut the character development. I feel trying to explain how one could go on after living a life like that would be much more powerful. I think them dying like that is a happier ending than living would be.

  28. DLP says:

    The ending worked for me.

    1) It was set up: we see Inferno ordering the hit.
    2) Reiji seemed to want to die, due to his guilt at what happened to Cal. He was living for Ellen.
    3) Ellen clearly survived. There was only one gunshot and unlike Reiji, she did not fall.
    4) The reason Ellen is lying down afterward is to look at the Sky of Mongolia. Her lying down symbolizes that she has come home, to the land she dreamed of, and Reiji kept her promise.

    Whatever she does now, she has a place to be.

  29. PL says:

    Just after watching the episode, I was a bit puzzled. But after giving a second thought, I quite agree with DLP’s version. Basically my understanding is:
    – In ep 25 Reiji made an agreement with Elen to fight Cal: he would kill Cal and continue to live in order to fulfill the promise he made with Elen;
    – Reiji was a normal person before becoming an assassin, like Cal but unlike Elen who was brainwashed. He may feel guilty, but he continued living to keep his promise.
    – The premise of ep 26 ending can be seen in ep 25 where Cal and Reiji dreamt of an impossible happy ending and also when Cal said that all she was doing is to destroy and kill and that she does want to continue such a life
    – I also agreee with DLP on the statement “Elen clearly survived. There was only one gunshot and unlike Reiji, she did not fall”. My guess is that she killed Reiji, just like he did with Carol
    – Finally I also completely agree with DLP on “The reason Ellen is lying down afterward is to look at the Sky of Mongolia. Her lying down symbolizes that she has come home, to the land she dreamed of, and Reiji kept her promise.
    Whatever she does now, she has a place to be.”

  30. animedyum says:

    It is indeed the perfect, flawless ending for Phantom(s). They have to kill to survive, and when they don’t have to kill… well fill in the blanks. Love this anime!

  31. neolight says:

    Yep, I think DLP is quite right with what he has said.

    Reiji has only though about keeping his Promise. Guilt certainly is heavy on his mind.

    Lots of people seem to Think that Ellen is the one living for Reiji. (Still in the end) But in the end Ellen was finally able to ‘live’ on her ownself!

    In a way it was Reiji the one who wasn’t living for himself as his guilt did overwelm him. All he thought about was keeping the promise and ‘the promise he failed to keep’ It showed quite well as Reiji voice in the 6 months later was a bit lifeless// like he was in the 2 chapter.

    I think that Ellen not only survied for the reasons mentioned above but because.. she was in the end able to live for herself.. and it would be more fitting.. I think for he to live on.

  32. meow says:

    I just managed to watch 26 at last. Been browsing through the new comments. I agree with DLP’s four points but totally disagree with this ending working. Elen didn’t hear the silenced gunshot – she probably has no idea what happened to Reiji. She had a happy, satisfied smile at the end, but I’d like you guys to consider how she will be once she finds out what happened to Reiji and whether all she said will still hold true. Having the most important thing taken away from her in her moment of serenity does not make for a good memory. It also totally doesn’t make sense for the assassin to have not taken out Elen either. I don’t consider this to be proper closure. This story is begging for a sequel, or maybe a movie, where a revenge-driven Elen goes after whoever hurt/killed Reiji this time. It’s not confirmed whether he died or not but I’m betting he did, considering how long he stood up after taking the shot before falling over with just a slight grunt. Elen was finally willing to kill her “father” for all the hurt he had done to Reiji. Imagine what she’ll do to those who killed him.

    Another thing. On the rooftop, Elen took down one of the Number sisters with hand-to-hand combat, incapacitating her and cracking her mask – but did she die? I got the impression she survived.

    Anyway, there’s no happy ending to be found here. I’m truly disappointed at this outcome. Cal’s death was bad enough but now this. This story was so brilliantly executed, right down to the final few seconds, but for it to end just like that, I honestly would like to forget I ever watched it.

  33. Tan-Tan says:

    You guys are overestimating Reiji. There’s one strong evidence that makes the murder very reasonable.

    Remember the time Cal shot a warning at Reiji when he was in his ‘normal’ life? That scene actually caught me off-guard, because Reiji could’ve sensed that, but he didn’t – at all. Not a single hint he noticed someone eying him nor the Godoh Princess.

    The more then at this quiet scene, especially after 6 months (assuming that Inferno hadn’t tracked them during that time), that he is not at all an assasin, but as a normal human being. Reiji has memories that are that of an assasin, and a normal person. We can all agree he can’t be both a normal Japanese and an assasin on the run.

  34. LLP says:

    Uh, no. Everyone else seemed to have missed the missing nightshade petal. Ellen died. She suicided.

  35. RL says:

    The only thing I really don’t get is the benefit of killing Reiji. Considering this in a Mafia perspective, it’s a waste of money, time, and resources just to kill someone who’s basically non-existent. That was really the only reason that I was slightly taken aback by the ending. If there was a more sensible reason for going that far just to kill a ghost from the past then I wouldn’t have minded it…except, there really wasn’t one except “it must be done” which just tells me the writers just wanted to make the story sadder than appropriate (and I am the type who likes sad endings…but this one was just unreasonable.)

    Anywho, just my two cent about the ending. Otherwise, besides the crappy reason why Reiji HAD to died in McGuire’s eye, it was good. :D

  36. Chosenone says:

    @ LLP It wasn’t a Nightshade. Plus even if it was its only the roots that are poison. Its impossiable! for ellen to die from injesting one flower petal.

    @ RL Well Reiji Could! come for payback at Inferno, plus I thinks its also that fact in McGuire’s eyes that Reiji if he was ever agaisn’t Inferno in a gang war, would be really Bad for Inferno. Reiji was the best! Phantom! for them.. Ellen all she did was follow orders.. and Drei did the job but made a mess and was out of control. So Reiji is the most dangerous in their eyes.

    Plus one of the key things for Inferno is “Saving Face” (see this in the second arc) IF there enemys found out abour reiji ‘about the ‘phantom’ Its not going to look good. They aren’t even able to control people in there Organazation which would not look good for them. Plus there a chance that another organization could hire Rejij (though reiji most likey wouldn’t.. but Inferno doesn’t know what he is thinking) and it could come back to bite Inferno.

    Even if this doesn’t convice you there are quite a few reason that Inferno would want to get Rid of this ‘loose cannon’

  37. RL says:

    The fact is that it’s been literally over a year (and a half? ) since Reiji worked under them, and Reiji has done nothing to them and even showed no interest in doing so. I’m sure they’ve investigated this which was why McGuire was asked if he wanted to go through with killing Reiji considering he’s pretty much a beat-up veteran dog who no longer cares about the underworld. The only reason he was targeted was because he worked under Claudia (following her orders) in which she was framed as a traitor and killed by Lizzie.

    Otherwise, in the end, he was helping Lizzie fight off the Japanese Yakuza in which he had to run away because Claudia was framed as a traitor. Therefore, since he worked and followed only Claudia’s orders, he was targeted in the same way Claudia was.

    Also, I highly doubt he was “the best” considering the final showdown. Eren’s skills are still top-notch (and, apparently, superior of those who were designed after her.) Because Reiji is a very sympathetic guy, he falters and hesitates more. Even though he still has his reflexes, it seems his “happy time” has led him to lose some of his superior skills as a “Phantom.” (And the only reason why Ein lost the title of Phantom was because Sythe Master fled from the scene and she was presumed dead.)

  38. Smudgeous says:

    @Chosenone: Assuming the plant were indeed Atropa belladonna (deadly nightshade), the comment about the root being the only poisonous part of the plant is completely untrue. There are enough tropane alkaloid toxins in a single leaf or 10-20 berries to kill an adult.

    Speaking specifically of the plant in the anime, I believe it to not be modeled after any specific plant. Mongolia does have several poisonous plants, a few of which are purple. However, the flowers and leaves of the plant in this episode are not rhododendrums, delphiniums, or nightshade. I don’t believe it really makes much difference either way, though. The plant at the end is clearly missing a petal, and Elen is not moving at all while looking up at the sky. The possibility of purposefully consuming a toxic plant is very much still alive.

  39. Chosenone says:

    Reiji might not be “the best” Well even I cant say who is the best’ But to Inferno He was the best. Since he didn’t need to be mind-controled aka Ellen.. and didn’t cause trouble like Drei. McGuire had said also.. that Zwei is a better phantom than Ein was. (Though you are right he only got the title because Ein left) But that Doesn’t mean he isn’t the best Phantom For Inferno.

    Reiji might of not shown any interest in taking down Inferno.. But Inferno doesn’t know what Reiji is thinking! and its better to be safe than sorry. Though what could of pushed McGuire into taking action was the result of SM and all his ‘puppets’ were wipped out along with a heap of other enemys. So clearly Zwei can still pose a threat he was to got agaisn’t Inferno. Mabye McGuire just wanted to clean up loose ends. I couldn’t say for sure. But it doesn’t Strike me was strange/make no sense that Inferno would of killed of Reiji.

    @ Smudgeous Well you might be right about the plant though I havn’t looked up too much informtion and am going on what alot of people have been saying. Though say it might of been deadly enough to kill you, I also very much doubt that Elen would of killed herself after. Finding a reason to live for herself. But i’m sure on that point alot of people will think mabye simliar or Different about it.

  40. Logar says:

    I might have a solution. If we look carefully, what can we say ?

    1 From the beginning of the animation, producers didn’t stop to use symbols to express things
    2 When Eren remembers her sky at the end, she says : “I think we don’t need to go on anymore”, Reiji asks if she’s sure of that, she says yes.
    3 Reiji remembers that the only one thing he wanted to do was to fulfill his promise to make Eren smile truly.
    4 Reiji is shot, we can’t know by who, and he keeps smiling.
    5 Eren says to herself that she can now truly live, her past doesn’t matter anymore. The only thing that’s important is her memories of being with Reiji.
    6 Eren is laying down, we can’t know if she’s still alive
    7 A petal is missing on one of the flowers next to Eren. Theses flowers are probably Safran, which is the symbol of life and reincarnation.

    To me, this end could make sense :

    Reiji and Eren planned way before to kill themselves once Eren would have found her past, and Reiji would have seen her smiling, because they want to start over in a new life (3,5).
    That would explain why Reiji keeps smiling after the shot (4). Of course to me Eren is dead too, maybe by another bullet, or by poisoning herself, actually the way she dies doesn’t really matters.
    When Eren says “I don’t think we need to go on anymore”(2), she means go on with these lives.

    It may sounds weird, but what really made me think that is that fucking missing petal (7). Why would the producers put that petal on middle of the last screen ? Just because this is not the symbol of death or of any ending, but this is the symbol of life and reincarnation (1,7).(actually the very last screen shows a bullet, probably the one which killed Reiji, but it can still symbolize the Ein’s and Zwei’s assassins lives.)

  41. someguy says:

    Why would the producers put that petal on middle of the last screen? It could symbolize alot of different things. But you know what makes it even harder to make sense of the scenes is that all the episodes before it aren’t clear cut in the way of explaining things as well.

    I Don’t belive that Reiji would of planned with Ellen to end their life. Reiji might not of cared (though he would want to fullfil the promise first)if he did die. But I doubt Ellen would be looking for death. She was looking forward to going to her home and in the end Ellen found these memories that she could now live with. Ellen’s voice is that of Ellen in the end. She sounds happy not like she feels trapped. Unlike Reiji who has the zwei like voice in the end and sounds like he still feels and carrys alot of guilt.

  42. SkyeDrift says:

    I just saw this on wiki!
    Elen is then shown unmoving while looking up at the sky; however a petal of a poisonous flower beside her, Oxytropis, is shown missing. The fate of Elen and Reiji is left unknown, leaving the ending ambiguous.

  43. lubu says:

    I don’t assume anyone is dead ever since the episode where they track Scythe to the docks and have their shoot out. I enjoyed the series, but I feel like the ending was edgy for the sake of having an edgy ending.

    It strained credulity to think that there was an assassin in the middle of mongolia who comes out of nowhere.

  44. Antalk says:

    What a mind f@%k for an ending! Took a while to unwind from it.

  45. Jesse says:

    Yeah im pretty sure someone was in the back of the cart and shot him,Thats my theory anyway. But Why didnt this ”assassin” kill helen too? confuses the hell out of me. But all all around great series im inpressed in the depth of the story line.

  46. Energizer says:

    A bit late but I just finished watching this. Elen died because it is hinted that she ate the poisonous flower.

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SuperMario
Don't know about this new Re:Creators episode since I haven't watched it, but I don't really mind Meteora. Her dialogues scream "exposition" but she still fits well to the story. The fights are good, I agree, but why didn't they go all the way with the world's collapse last episode?
Anonymous1202407
Whether Nisekoi is pandering or not, it is not enough proof for you to suggest that manga industry is shit. If u want good mainstream then its not that hard to find. Also for every success like Nisekoi which u claim to be pandering, there are dozen like it that failed to be popular. Why? Because it clearly is popular for a reason other than just simple pandering.
SuperMario
Ha, Ping Pong. I need that kind of show again in my life.
Lenlo
Also, Ping Pong is amazing.
Lenlo
Theres a difference between pandering to a large audience, and an anime/manga with a quality story that everyone ends up liking. Ive always found moe shows and things like Nisekoi to be the former.
Anonymous1202407
If you have a problem with it after trying it just dont read it. Its that simple. Also what a surprise that a show like nisekoi that appeals to a large demographic is popular. U want the mangaka to apologize it's not some art house story like Ping Pong?
Lenlo
Meteora is pretty hit or miss with her dialogue imo. Sometimes its great, othertimes its not. I can say though I enjoy most of the fights.
Anonymous1202113
I really want to like Re:Creators. To be honest though, I'm getting tired of the dialogue. It has its high points, but it sometimes just seems to drone on and on, especially with all of Meteora's "hypotheses."
KT
Both Bahamut and RE:Creators had great episodes. But I was indeed mentally screaming Super Smash Bros at RE:Creators. You will get the point when you watch the episode.
AidanAK47
Taken on it's own, Nisekoi is harmless. But it is undeniably proof that you need not be creative or innovative to succeed in the industry. In fact declaring creative bankruptcy could turn more fruitful than genuine effort.
AidanAK47
And I said how can you decide you don't like something if you haven't read it?
Of course you are likely mean that if you don't like something then give up on reading it further which of course does not mean that someone cannot complain about it regardless.
Anonymous1198985
No, Im said if you dont like nisekoi dont read it
AidanAK47
@Anon, How do you know you don't like it if you don't read it?
Anonymous1196967
Don't like it don't read it.
AidanAK47
I went and read Double Arts. This really was a great manga with tons of potentail and truly didn't deserve the axe. It's so depressing that this was cut off so soon and the author went on to make the most generic Harem ever Nisekoi, and that got over 200 chapters.
Lenlo
All of the important dance scenes for Yuri were fantastic, its just some minor one off characters and some reused ones that were an issue, so no they are better than the CGI
Anonymous1190387
Is it worse than those CGI dance scenes in some anime?
AidanAK47
@Puran, It is pretty surprising how well that story turns out. I say IG might do the job even if there animation isn't the most consistent. The one thing I am worried about is those necks though. In the PV those things were ridiculously long.
Puran
Fair enough, recycling the animation was bad, agreed. But the animation itself was really good.
Lenlo
See, I found the repeated dances in Yuri one of the worse parts. Alot of it was recycled animation and certain characters were obviously rushed/not done. Some were amazing, cause they took their time, but others looked terrible.
Puran
I kinda wish Mappa was doing the anime though. Yuri on Ice had really nicely animated dances (and was more or less the only actually good quality of that show :P )
Puran
Reading the Ballroom e Youkoso manga has made me really excited about the Anime.
Kaiser_Eoghan
@Aidan: I'm particularly turned off by bully/bullying cliches these days. I've only read the first two volumes to see how awful she was but I ended up simply losing track of the series and stopped reading.
Kaiser_Eoghan
@Mario: Actually that has changed, I had to pick a different day to see it given changes in schedule, I've booked it for NEXT Wednesday now. I've watched Akira about four times.
AidanAK47
Oh, Rising of the Shield Hero is getting an anime adaption. Hmmm...honestly after finishing the series and looking over it as a whole I am not sure I even want that. Plus seeing Bitch Animated...would fill me with rage.
SuperMario
I intend to re-watch Akira soon, probably this weekend. It has been almost 10 years since my first watch and now I don't remember much about that one. Thought it was intriguing and complex but not as acclaimed as people hyped it to be (I'll pick Ghost in the Shell anytime). Wonder how I'd feel now after re-watching it.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I remember you mentioned that you were going to watch In this Corner of the World today right? How was the movie Kaiser?
Lenlo
Oh cool, food wars is getting a 3rd season
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ballroom youkoso appears to be leading the polls.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Fumiko is a female mangaka yes. Also I found bokura no hentai worth reading.
SuperMario
yep, I finished that manga too and I have conflicted feeling about it. Yuri(!) part and fanservice are to blatant but they have a purpose. This mangaka (not sure but I think she's a girl) has some unique voice.
AidanAK47
....well I skimmed that manga. And it was weird
SuperMario
By all appearances,Sakura is normal,albeit sheltered junior high school girl who enjoy talking about love and walking home from school together.However,they also happen to inhabit a strange and supernatural world populated by mysterious,gigantic beings and unusual plant and animal life.Amid their peaceful lives,Sakura becomes very interested in something only alluded to exist in old books: dicks
SuperMario
Here's a synopsis of other manga from the same author, I think you'll have a better idea of his theme -
Sakura no Sono
AidanAK47
Pretty much what Masky said. I am not really praising it. Anyway I plan to read one or two more chapters to see where it's going. But if it's going in the direction I think it's going then I am dropping this one fast.
Kaiser_Eoghan
There is of course the underlying concern that it will go a very ugly route with that development or it could become edgy/horribly minipulative, but for now it is as mario said, a hook.
SuperMario
Well. overall I don't dislike what I read there. It has good hook and I'm intrigued to know more what the hell will happen. Good set-up for me. I'm in
SuperMario
@Masky: it's fine Masky, since I will chec itk out any way and see it for myself ^^
Masky
So since you guys started being interested, I checked it out and uh.. Yeah, not reading. I think ye guys misunderstood Aidans warnings since that was just fucked up and not in the interesting way.
Lenlo
@Aidan: Berserk will never again go more than 3-4 months without a hiatus.
SuperMario
Hmmm, that manga Cutie Mutie sounds good to me. I might check it out later today
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But had you not alluded to that scene, I may have seen the cover of that manga and skipped over it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I had a feeling, sort of, sad, I am intrigued to read more.
AidanAK47
Hyping and warning are not the same thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well with Aidan hyping up the horrors of cutie mutie I may as well glance at it to see what he' on about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are three manga with the name rec.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am familiar with the artist for cutie mutie, she did that manga about the three kids dealing with gender/orientation issues.
AidanAK47
Oh look Berserk is on Haitus again....
.....the sad thing is that it comes as expected now.
AidanAK47
For reference the two I read were Cutie Mutie and Rec. Be warned, the first one goes to a rather uncomfortable level.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Read two manga. One started lighthearted and then went to really dark territory. The other one looks like it's about a really dark subject but turned out to be something more lighthearted.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Alright. Tested it now so it such be fixed. Try again.
Masky
@Aidan: Huh? What you read that turned dark/didn't turn dark? .-.
SuperMario
"too many answers selected for question 1! only 3 answers allowed!"
SuperMario
@Aidan: I still have the same issues. Weird
AidanAK47
@Mario, Wasn't my intent. Try it now and you should be able to pick as many as you want.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I'm not allowed to vote more than 3 votes. Is it your intention Aidan?
AidanAK47
Well that was weird. I read something that looked innocent but turned out to be really dark. Then something that looked really dark only to become innocent.
Masky
Yeah, nothing that interests me I see :D Like my strongest reaction to season preview was "Someone made isekai with smartphone? Really? REALLY? Thats best idea you had"
Masky
Ah Knighs and Magic, found that manga. It was boring enough for me to forget its name. Also besides being boring, I kinda find MC unlikeable since their only personality is that they like mechas and were a programmer before renicarnating as short bishie kid
Masky
Woo, time to vote stuff
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that movie In this Corner just getting more and more acclaimed huh? Thou I think it'a a type of movie that if you have high expectation for it you will likely be disappointed. It works best as a sleeper hit
SuperMario
As for cute monster girls, most of the time I don't find them cute at all. I know I'm being racist, but...
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm guilty with that cute girls genre, as i enjoyed K-On tremedously for example. Or If I have more time I'd follow Hinako Note this season ^^
Kaiser-Eoghan
They don't always adapt all that well or work as well outside of manga format, especially 4-komas.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*three
Kaiser-Eoghan
The only two of any interest were hidamari sketch, azumanga daioh and yuru yuri and that was largely down to being in the mood for them a few years ago.
Lenlo
@Mario: Personally, I have 0 interest in this Monster girls doing cute things subgenre, just like I have very little interest in the cute girls doing cute things major genre.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: As it turns out I DID read in this corner of the world. I'll also be seeing it next thursday.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: at this moment I'm very skeptical with the whole Monster girls doing cute girl subgenre, so I'm approachig Centaur with a caution. Of course, it all depends on how I feel after the first episode
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Happy End isn't as bleak aa his other works. But it's certainly Hanake's films, as it explores many of his favorite themes: the voyeurist of camera in his Benny's video, the detachment to the world and the underlying violence. Not his best thou but it's still very good
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think I'd be up for watching jigoku shojo, its been a long time since I watched the original two seasons and this one won't be as long, so it won't get as repetitive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I voted centaur no nanami on the poll, think Mario could cover it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: How did did you get on with Happy end? I heard its like a mix of his best works. Is it as dark and depressing?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have vague memories of in the corner of the worlds manga, unless I'm mixing it up with something else.
SuperMario
Some news, Lu Over the Wall won the best prize at this year's Annecy (the 1st anime won the award since 1995's Pom Poko), with In the Corner of the World took the Jury Prize. Quite a good showing for anime this year.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Hello.
SuperMario
Really, still no vote for Kakegurui?? I thought it would take the top poll for sure
SuperMario
That 18if, even the poster doesn't make much sense, but it looks dazzling ^^
Lenlo
go-go licensed products!
SuperMario
@Lenlo: and Madhouse is the studio behind that Marvel rip-off. Are they really going that low for profits?
Lenlo
Lookin forward to Kakeguri next season, but thats the only thing thats really caught my eye
Lenlo
Well, you have to watch Marvel next season right?
AidanAK47
And done. I swear these previews take a lot out of me.
AidanAK47
Almost done....almost done...
KT
Attack of Titan, ended ok. But man the production values had gone down.

Virgin Soul had a okish episde

Re:Creators continues to rock for me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the 70s version ending, it was mean spirited =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The original used its one room location quite well and dim lighting in parts, very closed in/claustrophobic.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: just finished the Beguiled and it was much better than I expected. Like, I didn't expect it to be that well shot. The guy was put in a passive role than active here, which help the theme imo. Also, the ending admitedly isn't for everyone but I liked it just fine
SuperMario
@Kaiser: using a black girl? The girls in this one are all white :(
AidanAK47
Sato in Re:Creators isn't doing himself any favors is he? Honestly the more I learn about him, the less likable he becomes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It was a good film though, one of scarjos better moments.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: As for Sofia, I'm only familiar with lost in translation, which I haven't seen since it originally came out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Everyone goes on about Francis' for the Godfather, the conversation is massively underated and apocalypse now is better, but it has to be the theatrical cut.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I guess it was probably seen as progressive in its day by way of using the black girl.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Very very cynically 70s of course.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Actually just happened to finish it there, I felt it stood out for its somewhat successful gothic feel and aesthetic and Eastwood's performance which shows how well he can command the audiences attention even when he isn't shooting people. Kind of liked how it got slightly grisly later on. It makes a small effort in giving one line backstories .
SuperMario
@Kaiser: the original movie isn't that well-received. It's more like an exotica film where the main guy (Clint Eastwood) hooks up girls of all ages. This one I heard has a good spin on feminist angle. I'm sure is intrigued but Sofia Coppola's filmography has been mixed for me
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I doubt any one has ever heard of this....I know I didn't, I haven't read it either but I came across some weird old Blacksploitation manga, probably from the 90s, Blast knuckle or something...
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Still remaking the beguiled might be good, we need more modern westerns.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose I can busy myself with the original 70s version of beguiled. At the moment I've been focusing on old Japanese films, they had such a good film industry, it makes it hurt so much more now knowing that all they do now is shit live action adaptations.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: gonna be a long day for me with the screenings of The Beguiled, Wind River, The Other Side of Hope and Happy End
Kaiser-Eoghan
Now I need to re-watch 08th ms team.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I watched 4 hours straight of Gundam the origin, hit me with a hard punch of nostalgia, actually seeing his backstory rather than hearing about it is a good thing, I enjoyed the action scenes, it was high-melodrama but well used and more Char is always a good thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think I'll just put Kado on hold for now and see whats being said about future episodes of it, I'm too unsure of it being worth it or not at the moment.
Vonter
I want to comment on a humble indie game called Sakuna of Rice and Ruin. Is a simple hack and slash similar to Muramasa and Dust: Elysian Trail. The game has a scarf mechanic that is very fun to use to evade attacks and throwing stuff. It kind of reminded me of those Mickey games from the Snes and the visuals reminded me of Pocky and Rocky. Its a game to play on a sunday, simple, fun and relaxing.
Vonter
From the stuff I played Dragon Ball FigtherZ seems legit at capturing the speed of the battle and feel of the action.
Vonter
Back from E3. Nintendo is still my main jam. The Rabbids game seems better than I think anyone could imagine. Odyssey seems like a good time. Xenoblade and Metroid 2 remake look like hype.
KT
On Gundam OG, the new Origin Manga, and the movies based on it are very good. Recommended.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember reading the first chapter of that manga, but it was a long time ago and the updates were slow.
AidanAK47
A manga about Ballroom dancing? Yeah there's no way I am into this.
(Starts reading)
(Reads ten chapters)
Crap...I am into this.
Anonymous1166615
Feel I need to re-visit gundam again through 08th MS team, unicorn and Origin as I'd enjoyed the 70s series, its sequel and chars counterattack. Seed turned me off the franchise for ridiculously long and 00s movie and second season wern't as good as the first .
Anonymous1166615
Looks like I have another Yuasa work to look forward to, he's doing his own take off on Nagai's devilman , hopefully he can reign in Valvraves writer though.
Masky
*first manga in couple last weeks I've seen
Masky
Da fuq. Found manga called Kemono Jihen, but it somehow already has tv tropes page(I tend to check randomly whether works have tv tropes page to see how notable they are) O_o I mean this is first manga with 1-3 chapters that has that, so I guess author is really popular or something in some circles?
Lenlo
Huh. Guess they figured out rewriting a story for Re:Creators.
Masky
Ya know, even if i hadn't heard that Suka Suka is based on one of more tragic light novels, the death flags, all of the death flags :D
HelghastKillzone
I'm a patron of someone who is writing mass effect fanfiction at 2 million+ words. It combines games, writing and fan creativity. So there is that....
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, while I listened to some Lovecraft audiobooked, I felt as if I was copping out by listening instead of reading.
Kaiser-Eoghan
A horror manga often works well episodically in a short story format.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Had a flick through Shibito, of what I read I liked how ridiculously camp and gleefully, proudfully nutso it was combined with the silliness of the violence. While not my favourite chapter, the one about the actress stood out for me because she was clearly a reference to Setsuko Hara, one of Japans most famous actresses lol
AidanAK47
I try out a number of things from time to time. Books, movies, music, comics and the like. But I always come back to anime.
AidanAK47
I have dabbled in quite a few mediums myself. My recent experiment is audiobooks which I am currently using to get through Moby Dick. And Jesus H Christ is this book padded to hell and back. It may be well written but it is an awful story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what this film venture has shown me is that while I've gotten much out of it, it shows just how STRONGER the connection I have to anime/manga is.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And definately, I don't get the "people focus on only one media thing". One of the reasons I started branching out was because I felt "Fuck, I'm in my 30s and I've neglected a whole medium by being too focused on cartoons"
Kaiser-Eoghan
The sign you're at something too long is when the suspense of waiting for the next part to come out isn't there or when you find yourself not picking up on whats going on!
Kaiser-Eoghan
Manga/visual novels/anime I've noticed especially now are much much easier to stay awake during when you're wrecked tired.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And to be honest, I've gotten busier and more tired lately, getting home on a weekday later after a new job, I'm not alert enough to watch art films, just started leaving them till the weekend.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I know exactly what you mean. That is one of the reason why I like to mix up what I watch: sometimes books, other time manga and even music to get me away from burning out from 1 medium
Kaiser-Eoghan
*eventually get back
Kaiser-Eoghan
The short of that is, I think a good scale back with ANY hobby is a good thing because it can feel special all over again when you get back on it more mainly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But now that after three years of mainly focusing on films moreso than anime/manga as much, because I'm now incredibly burnt out from watching films 4 times a day, I feel now I can watch ANY anime or read any manga and get that fresh feeling/some of that old passion back.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Remember that feeling you got when you first really got into anime/manga and pretty much excitedly/panic watched EVERYTHING and almost everything felt great? I've been thinking how a few years back now, I sort of re-lived that feeling again...however for films.
AidanAK47
(Finished watching SukaSuka 10)
Awwww...that was a sweet episode end....
.....
.....They are all gonna die.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Kids off school pressumably in Japan with more time to watch stuff and more shows.
AidanAK47
God why is there so many anime during the summer season.
AidanAK47
Of course there are the really obvious recommendations of Grand Blue and Kaguya wants to be confessed to.
AidanAK47
I say the only other recommendations I got are Jagaaaaaan, Maou no Hisho, Ore wo Suki Nano wa Omae Dake ka yo and Yuuutsu-kun to Succubus-san. Though I still think Shibito no Koe o Kiku ga Yoi would be up your alley.
Kaiser-Eoghan
By all means keep posting random manga you've all come across, I will read them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I thought route end did a good job on the protagonist's feelings regarding his mothers death.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though my interest in Route is largely due to it was the most lurid of the selection.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt route end holds the most interest of that selection of recommendations, although before reading it I thought it would be an episodic manga, similar to a series called death sweeper.
Lenlo
@K-Off, well I think both the manga got handed down to the assistant, and the anime got handed down as well. The original author/director for both arnt working on Boruto
K-Off
@Lenlo Probably, haven't checked. But the manga and anime are completely different so I don't know.
AidanAK47
The Streisand effect in full force.
SuperMario
*Now the media...
SuperMario
No the media storms over it and eventually want to check out this film. It has gain more publicity after this shameless incident
Total users: 35

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