Posted by psgels on 25 September 2009 with categories: Phantom



Whoa, wtf…

Throughout this episode, I had no idea what the people in the shoutbox were talking about. I mean, it was an awesome episode that did just about everything it should have done: exciting gunfight, after which Scythe dies and Reiji and Helen live on, trying to search for Helen’s origins. After a bit of searching, they find that she was taken from Mongolia when she was little. It was a very fitting ending for my favourite series for the past half year.

Then the episode actually ended, and I understood. That really was daring from the creators: just when everything seems solved, they pull such a surprise ending that nobody saw coming, and they don’t even dare to explain what happened. Out of nowhere, a gunshot sounds, and both Reiji and Helen die. No extremely long death speeches, no overdramatic buildup. It’s just there, and less than a minute later they’re dead. it’s entirely left up to our imagination what happened.

And yet, somehow it made me like this ending even more. My theory of what happened is that McGuire is behind it. Something like “don’t mess with the mafia”, and he probably ordered assassins to track Ein and Zwei down. He previously left this to Scythe Master and Drei, but since the two of them failed he tried to do this a bit more subtle. Whatever assassins came, they figured that the most likely place that they would be able to find them was Ein’s place of birth. They knew this through Scythe, and they probably picked up a hint somewhere that Reiji and Helen were searching for it. After that, they only had to wait and snipe them when they arrived.

It just shows that there’s nothing like a happy end in the mafia. I really liked this ending because it didn’t try to overglorify the death of the two protagonists. It was a really subtle finale, and that’s something I can really appreciate. I admire Bee-Trains’s guts for trying to pull such an ending.

Overall, this has been such a wonderful series. It’s definitely in my Top 3 of Bee-Train series, along with Popolocrois and .Hack//Sign. It had such an amazing sense of subtlety, and yet at others it packed such a punch. With a fantastic soundtrack and a terrific sense of characterization (well, for me at least), I really consider this series to be the best of the past half year, and I’m looking forward to Bee-Train’s next series in 2010, whatever it may be about.
Rating: ** (Excellent)

EDIT: crap, I misunderstood this ending. Only Reiji died, Helen remained alive. Still, that doesn’t change my opinion, this episode rocked. Unless you want happy endings, of course. ;)

EDOT2: Major SPOILER for El Cazador!
After this, I still want to add a bit to the huge rage of people that seem to be unhappy over this episode. Watch El Cazador. that one has a happy ending in which the two progaonists live together happily ever after. Ironically, I remember how that ending also wasn’t well received. Ironic, isn’t it?

46 Responses

  1. Perrin4869 says:

    The thing is that Ein didn’t seem very dead to me at all. I think just Reiji died. And did you really think the whole fight with SM’s Phantoms was good? They died like stupid flies! They were supposed to be his masterpiece!
    I’m too tired now to write a good troll though. Expect one in the review after I get some rest…

  2. psgels psgels says:

    In my eyes, they weren’t his masterpiece. They were his masterpiece in his eyes, which Helen proved wrong when she kicked their ass easily with their own moves.

    Also, how much did you bet again on Claudia coming back to life? ;)

  3. Tan-Tan says:

    Like I said in random curiosity, there’s a meaning behind Reiji’s sudden death, which makes it tragic.

    Reiji said he doesn’t want to die so he can fulfill that one promised. He finally fulfilled it, and then…

    Technically, that’s a happy ending for Reiji. It’s what he wanted.

  4. windy says:

    I loved this quite mysterious ending that leaves it up to our imagination to decide what will happen next ! This ending reminded me the final episode of Noir, where we hear the sound of two gunshots and it’s up to us to believe the characters dead or alive, a sad ending indeed, now I think they ended up dead, but that one was also a symbolic ending that so amazed me! In this episode of Phantom I also got the impression that Elen wasn’t aware of the fact that Reiji has been shot and thought him justlaying on the grass, but I’m not sure, she smiled though, and at the very end we see another gun near there. Well, even if Elen survived at the end, she may be killed off later on , I think it’s unavoidable, it’s like they can only find peace in death itself, and she said to Scythe master she would soon join him in hell, which may actually mean she wanted to see the place of her birth before going to the world above, the sky is omnipresent in this episode, symbolizing heaven and the everlasting peace.

  5. meow says:

    Ok. I’m shocked. ^^

    Haven’t seen 26 yet but the ending sounds weird. Why kill only Reiji? What about Elen? Did Elen take out the sniper before she could be killed too? Or is the audience fooled by Reiji’s final vision of Elen’s ghost before he dies?

    Well, I suppose Reiji’s karma finally caught up to him. I didn’t mind him dying, but I would have preferred if he died so Elen and Cal might live. If she survived, she winds up alone and she’s already confessed that she can’t live without Reiji so, yea..this is a pretty bad ending. In the end, the bad guys (Inferno) won. Hm…did the game end this way too? I thought Reiji and Elen managed to get away in the game. Sorry to say, this is the kind of story I hate and try to avoid. As expected of the director who created Noir.

  6. Camario says:

    Yes, that’s why I wasn’t really sure about what to think about it at first…but speaking logically it made complete sense and does go along with the tragic nature of most of the story. After a few hours of sleep, I actually like it.

    It’s still not completely clear whether she will even want to live without Reiji though, so it’s not a matter of whether you misunderstood the ending or not, but that’s precisely the point: the whole thing is left up to interpretation.

    Could the story have ended in a different way? Yes, that’s why the game had multiple endings. There were some happy endings, of course, but almost always someone had to die in the process. The anime staff chose to surprise even the visual novel fans by taking an existing ending and adding that last bit of revenge from the mafia underworld, which was appropriate yet also quite bitter. The story is flexible enough to accomodate that outcome as an additional possibility, so in the end I’m very satisfied with the anime despite the fact this isn’t my favorite ending in and of itself.

  7. hairgreen says:

    they don’t need to kill of Renji..I mean, what’s the point in terms of the story? every conflict is resolved.

  8. ShionBaka says:

    It not really that the bad guys (Inferno) won. Since Its immpossiable for them and the life of the underworld to lose. Though Reiji and Ellen or Cal could go after them.. there would always be people to replace the ones they kill. This anime is not a Shounen title.

    Really Reiji was a dead man.. Even if Inferno wasn’t after him. From all the people he killed its not haard to beleive that at least one person would want revenge.Revenge and more so Betrayal is a key theme in the show.

    Helen remained alive, but who seriously thinks she will live? taking everything into account. Weather it was she kill’s herself or Inferno does.

    Interesing though since it didn’t really end as Reiji Ellen couple ending. No Marr. P No being together foever scene. They just felt close as they did at the end of the first Arc. And Reiji was just trying to do the same thing. I’m sure Bee-train also did that on purpose.

  9. yukifiverings says:

    I don’t think Elen was ever a target. Probably was considered already dead. After all Scythe would not want to advertise her existence, given that it would implicate him in earlier events between the Godoh group and Inferno. It makes sense that only Reiji would be on the chopping block. Boy I did not see that coming. Hardcore ending.

  10. R4diance says:

    why after Reiji dies she turn around and smile? she must see his body, they were near.

  11. panaghoy88 says:

    I’m just pissed that Reiji got shot despite being shown as the best assassin. They could have justified his death with a really impossible to survive situation. It really hurts the fans. And come on, as if we weren’t sick of protagonists dying in such a lame way. I have watched enough animes and movies to not get “surprised” by this.

  12. radical_dan says:

    There wouldn’t be so much raging if Reiji was killed in battle. It just seems a waste to get to the end and have Ein turn around and kill him. Its an obvious plot device to incite discussion. In the end, Reiji and Ein are only throwaway characters for the geniuses at Bee Train.

  13. psgels psgels says:

    dan: wait, did Ein kill Reiji? I didn’t see a gun in her hand though. I thought he was killed by that passing cart.

    Also, why would that make the characters throwaway for Bee-Train, just because they were killed off?

    panaghoy: you can be an excellent assassin, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be killed when you have your guard down. I mean, to have seen that gunshot coming you need to have the paranoia of a drugs dealer, who are completely different people.

  14. Perrin4869 says:

    In the end no one wanted to take bets, fortunately :)
    Anyways, see the full troll at the review post.

  15. watashi says:

    The ending was interesting, though I am not sure whether I like the fact it wasn’t fully explained. However, I really didn’t see that final scene coming, even though all the time I guessed which route the story would follow. I am glad the creators took liberties. The dialog between Elen and Scythe was surely long. Have to wait for the subs to understand it. I also wanted a little more over-the-top action from the final episode.

    Overall the series was pretty good. It was refreshing to follow a seinen series. Music was great and I have to say some tunes were actually variations from the original themes (at least Cal’s pocket watch theme). Nice that it was considered. There were some flaws with the series. I don’t clearly remember the scene where Ein was shot while rescuing Scythe, but so far I have thought Ein was too far away to be able to stop the bullet. These “off-screen” deaths, which are a clichee, were the biggest flaw of the series, but I knew to expect those after the visual novel.

    If I had to pick up my favorite between summer animes Phantom and Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, my choice would be Tokyo Magnitude. Tokyo Magnitude was more unique and surprising (well, I still knew how the story would go with Phantom). It may be true, I enjoyed Phantom more though. Of course, these two are completely different genre and that’s why not that well comparable.

  16. someguy says:

    That Death (if Reiji was killed by the passing Cart) is the most fitting way for him to get killed. Inferno Do not like to Create a Big scene. And this is the way inferno kills people. With little or No scene. Now Rejij Not trying to explain or work things off with Cal and it the end coming arcoss as an Idiot or an Asshole was the low point in the show.

    The anime did a decent job but it still cant compare to the VN.

  17. Rawr says:

    It’s a bit of a stretch considering Reiji and Elen were supposed to be like godlike assassins. I find it hard to believe they would have let their guard down long enough to let someone have a shot at them, even if it were a sniper.

  18. Observant says:

    That wasnt a gun at the end it was just the bullet shell. A hand gun shell from the person either riding in or driving the wagon that drove behind him. Not to mention there was 1 of the “Masterpiece” girls left alive. The one with the cracked mask.

    I agree that this ending was very good. But at the same time I would have liked at the very least to know for sure who killed Reiji.

  19. someone says:

    What the hell? the ending didn’t make sense at all. Reiji and Elen have like esp like super powers sensing people that are aiming at them, yet Reiji just stands there in the end and doesn’t even realize he’s shot? If he died in another way, it would make a lot more sense, like if he was poisoned or something.

  20. ryvrdrgn14 says:

    I want my happy ending! *sniff* ToT

  21. Skraps says:

    Killing Reji at that point served no real purpose, wish I knew what the authors were going for when they decided to do that.

    With a name like Requiem for the Phantom, their shouldn’t be much of a surprise that either one of them died but thought I was hoping for more of an impact. Can’t wait for the funimation dub for this series.

    (Goddam Lelouch and C.C stay in your own mess of an anime and stop trying to fuck up the ending to perfectly good one).

  22. plotholemuch? says:

    Seriously.

    They go threw the entire show being bad asses. At the very end after traveling into some back water part of mongolia Inferno some how magically sets it up for some dude on a horse cart to shoot the greatest assassin on the planet in the back.

    Rigggghhhhht

    This ending is shit. It doesn’t provoke any discussion other then how terrible the writers are. I hope they never do another ending scene, because god they’d screw up another (otherwise good) anime.

  23. PhantomEnding says:

    It was…an interesting ending, to say the very least. If anyone didn’t notice, at the ending, in once sceen, a blossom of nightshade is shown with all of its petals, and after reiji gets killed, they show the same blossom but a petal is missing. Nightshade is pretty damn poisonous, so I’m assuming Elen ate it and killed herself.

    I think Reiji knew he was going to die, and just didn’t do anything about it. I’m pretty sure they are both happy with the way things ended. And the reason Elen smiles at the end is in order for reiji to die happily , because he was finally able to keep his promise and make Elen truly smile.

  24. psgels psgels says:

    To all those wondering why such a great assassin as Reiji would not have seen this coming: how would he have been able to avoid it? I mean, the guy on the cart was also a professional assassin who blended into his environment, and this isn’t the first time in which Inferno out-witted Reiji (like, he also never saw the explosion in his apartment coming).

  25. KamikazeSim says:

    Man, the more I have watched the last 2 minutes, I think Elen was killed with Reiji.

    She smiles and then she fades away symbolically. Then we find her laying STILL on the ground with no movement and the one petal off the flower is gone. Even though they only show one bullet shell at the end, that could be another hint that that bullet was for Elen since we saw Reiji die. Hell the episode was named after her.

    I think they were both killed. If Reiji was that close to her, why would the assassin kill just him but let her live? It was a double whack job I bet.

  26. Runekilla says:

    I knew atleast one of them will die from the start but I didn’t expect on how abrupt it was. It’s kind of cruel of letting Reiji just die like that at the end. He survived countless fights which were way harder but he ends up dieing in the most simplest way. I guess it just shows anything can happen in the world of the mafia.

  27. Eddie says:

    I have to say, this was the ending I feared from the beginning. This kind of ending has been done in all kinds of genres (from hollywood to anime:think ‘the departed’) now so many times that it is a cop-out rather than some brave writing twist. The characters get to die without struggle in their happiest moments, rather than have to live on with the weight of their past, allowing the writers to cut the character development. I feel trying to explain how one could go on after living a life like that would be much more powerful. I think them dying like that is a happier ending than living would be.

  28. DLP says:

    The ending worked for me.

    1) It was set up: we see Inferno ordering the hit.
    2) Reiji seemed to want to die, due to his guilt at what happened to Cal. He was living for Ellen.
    3) Ellen clearly survived. There was only one gunshot and unlike Reiji, she did not fall.
    4) The reason Ellen is lying down afterward is to look at the Sky of Mongolia. Her lying down symbolizes that she has come home, to the land she dreamed of, and Reiji kept her promise.

    Whatever she does now, she has a place to be.

  29. PL says:

    Just after watching the episode, I was a bit puzzled. But after giving a second thought, I quite agree with DLP’s version. Basically my understanding is:
    – In ep 25 Reiji made an agreement with Elen to fight Cal: he would kill Cal and continue to live in order to fulfill the promise he made with Elen;
    – Reiji was a normal person before becoming an assassin, like Cal but unlike Elen who was brainwashed. He may feel guilty, but he continued living to keep his promise.
    – The premise of ep 26 ending can be seen in ep 25 where Cal and Reiji dreamt of an impossible happy ending and also when Cal said that all she was doing is to destroy and kill and that she does want to continue such a life
    – I also agreee with DLP on the statement “Elen clearly survived. There was only one gunshot and unlike Reiji, she did not fall”. My guess is that she killed Reiji, just like he did with Carol
    – Finally I also completely agree with DLP on “The reason Ellen is lying down afterward is to look at the Sky of Mongolia. Her lying down symbolizes that she has come home, to the land she dreamed of, and Reiji kept her promise.
    Whatever she does now, she has a place to be.”

  30. animedyum says:

    It is indeed the perfect, flawless ending for Phantom(s). They have to kill to survive, and when they don’t have to kill… well fill in the blanks. Love this anime!

  31. neolight says:

    Yep, I think DLP is quite right with what he has said.

    Reiji has only though about keeping his Promise. Guilt certainly is heavy on his mind.

    Lots of people seem to Think that Ellen is the one living for Reiji. (Still in the end) But in the end Ellen was finally able to ‘live’ on her ownself!

    In a way it was Reiji the one who wasn’t living for himself as his guilt did overwelm him. All he thought about was keeping the promise and ‘the promise he failed to keep’ It showed quite well as Reiji voice in the 6 months later was a bit lifeless// like he was in the 2 chapter.

    I think that Ellen not only survied for the reasons mentioned above but because.. she was in the end able to live for herself.. and it would be more fitting.. I think for he to live on.

  32. meow says:

    I just managed to watch 26 at last. Been browsing through the new comments. I agree with DLP’s four points but totally disagree with this ending working. Elen didn’t hear the silenced gunshot – she probably has no idea what happened to Reiji. She had a happy, satisfied smile at the end, but I’d like you guys to consider how she will be once she finds out what happened to Reiji and whether all she said will still hold true. Having the most important thing taken away from her in her moment of serenity does not make for a good memory. It also totally doesn’t make sense for the assassin to have not taken out Elen either. I don’t consider this to be proper closure. This story is begging for a sequel, or maybe a movie, where a revenge-driven Elen goes after whoever hurt/killed Reiji this time. It’s not confirmed whether he died or not but I’m betting he did, considering how long he stood up after taking the shot before falling over with just a slight grunt. Elen was finally willing to kill her “father” for all the hurt he had done to Reiji. Imagine what she’ll do to those who killed him.

    Another thing. On the rooftop, Elen took down one of the Number sisters with hand-to-hand combat, incapacitating her and cracking her mask – but did she die? I got the impression she survived.

    Anyway, there’s no happy ending to be found here. I’m truly disappointed at this outcome. Cal’s death was bad enough but now this. This story was so brilliantly executed, right down to the final few seconds, but for it to end just like that, I honestly would like to forget I ever watched it.

  33. Tan-Tan says:

    You guys are overestimating Reiji. There’s one strong evidence that makes the murder very reasonable.

    Remember the time Cal shot a warning at Reiji when he was in his ‘normal’ life? That scene actually caught me off-guard, because Reiji could’ve sensed that, but he didn’t – at all. Not a single hint he noticed someone eying him nor the Godoh Princess.

    The more then at this quiet scene, especially after 6 months (assuming that Inferno hadn’t tracked them during that time), that he is not at all an assasin, but as a normal human being. Reiji has memories that are that of an assasin, and a normal person. We can all agree he can’t be both a normal Japanese and an assasin on the run.

  34. LLP says:

    Uh, no. Everyone else seemed to have missed the missing nightshade petal. Ellen died. She suicided.

  35. RL says:

    The only thing I really don’t get is the benefit of killing Reiji. Considering this in a Mafia perspective, it’s a waste of money, time, and resources just to kill someone who’s basically non-existent. That was really the only reason that I was slightly taken aback by the ending. If there was a more sensible reason for going that far just to kill a ghost from the past then I wouldn’t have minded it…except, there really wasn’t one except “it must be done” which just tells me the writers just wanted to make the story sadder than appropriate (and I am the type who likes sad endings…but this one was just unreasonable.)

    Anywho, just my two cent about the ending. Otherwise, besides the crappy reason why Reiji HAD to died in McGuire’s eye, it was good. :D

  36. Chosenone says:

    @ LLP It wasn’t a Nightshade. Plus even if it was its only the roots that are poison. Its impossiable! for ellen to die from injesting one flower petal.

    @ RL Well Reiji Could! come for payback at Inferno, plus I thinks its also that fact in McGuire’s eyes that Reiji if he was ever agaisn’t Inferno in a gang war, would be really Bad for Inferno. Reiji was the best! Phantom! for them.. Ellen all she did was follow orders.. and Drei did the job but made a mess and was out of control. So Reiji is the most dangerous in their eyes.

    Plus one of the key things for Inferno is “Saving Face” (see this in the second arc) IF there enemys found out abour reiji ‘about the ‘phantom’ Its not going to look good. They aren’t even able to control people in there Organazation which would not look good for them. Plus there a chance that another organization could hire Rejij (though reiji most likey wouldn’t.. but Inferno doesn’t know what he is thinking) and it could come back to bite Inferno.

    Even if this doesn’t convice you there are quite a few reason that Inferno would want to get Rid of this ‘loose cannon’

  37. RL says:

    The fact is that it’s been literally over a year (and a half? ) since Reiji worked under them, and Reiji has done nothing to them and even showed no interest in doing so. I’m sure they’ve investigated this which was why McGuire was asked if he wanted to go through with killing Reiji considering he’s pretty much a beat-up veteran dog who no longer cares about the underworld. The only reason he was targeted was because he worked under Claudia (following her orders) in which she was framed as a traitor and killed by Lizzie.

    Otherwise, in the end, he was helping Lizzie fight off the Japanese Yakuza in which he had to run away because Claudia was framed as a traitor. Therefore, since he worked and followed only Claudia’s orders, he was targeted in the same way Claudia was.

    Also, I highly doubt he was “the best” considering the final showdown. Eren’s skills are still top-notch (and, apparently, superior of those who were designed after her.) Because Reiji is a very sympathetic guy, he falters and hesitates more. Even though he still has his reflexes, it seems his “happy time” has led him to lose some of his superior skills as a “Phantom.” (And the only reason why Ein lost the title of Phantom was because Sythe Master fled from the scene and she was presumed dead.)

  38. Smudgeous says:

    @Chosenone: Assuming the plant were indeed Atropa belladonna (deadly nightshade), the comment about the root being the only poisonous part of the plant is completely untrue. There are enough tropane alkaloid toxins in a single leaf or 10-20 berries to kill an adult.

    Speaking specifically of the plant in the anime, I believe it to not be modeled after any specific plant. Mongolia does have several poisonous plants, a few of which are purple. However, the flowers and leaves of the plant in this episode are not rhododendrums, delphiniums, or nightshade. I don’t believe it really makes much difference either way, though. The plant at the end is clearly missing a petal, and Elen is not moving at all while looking up at the sky. The possibility of purposefully consuming a toxic plant is very much still alive.

  39. Chosenone says:

    Reiji might not be “the best” Well even I cant say who is the best’ But to Inferno He was the best. Since he didn’t need to be mind-controled aka Ellen.. and didn’t cause trouble like Drei. McGuire had said also.. that Zwei is a better phantom than Ein was. (Though you are right he only got the title because Ein left) But that Doesn’t mean he isn’t the best Phantom For Inferno.

    Reiji might of not shown any interest in taking down Inferno.. But Inferno doesn’t know what Reiji is thinking! and its better to be safe than sorry. Though what could of pushed McGuire into taking action was the result of SM and all his ‘puppets’ were wipped out along with a heap of other enemys. So clearly Zwei can still pose a threat he was to got agaisn’t Inferno. Mabye McGuire just wanted to clean up loose ends. I couldn’t say for sure. But it doesn’t Strike me was strange/make no sense that Inferno would of killed of Reiji.

    @ Smudgeous Well you might be right about the plant though I havn’t looked up too much informtion and am going on what alot of people have been saying. Though say it might of been deadly enough to kill you, I also very much doubt that Elen would of killed herself after. Finding a reason to live for herself. But i’m sure on that point alot of people will think mabye simliar or Different about it.

  40. Logar says:

    I might have a solution. If we look carefully, what can we say ?

    1 From the beginning of the animation, producers didn’t stop to use symbols to express things
    2 When Eren remembers her sky at the end, she says : “I think we don’t need to go on anymore”, Reiji asks if she’s sure of that, she says yes.
    3 Reiji remembers that the only one thing he wanted to do was to fulfill his promise to make Eren smile truly.
    4 Reiji is shot, we can’t know by who, and he keeps smiling.
    5 Eren says to herself that she can now truly live, her past doesn’t matter anymore. The only thing that’s important is her memories of being with Reiji.
    6 Eren is laying down, we can’t know if she’s still alive
    7 A petal is missing on one of the flowers next to Eren. Theses flowers are probably Safran, which is the symbol of life and reincarnation.

    To me, this end could make sense :

    Reiji and Eren planned way before to kill themselves once Eren would have found her past, and Reiji would have seen her smiling, because they want to start over in a new life (3,5).
    That would explain why Reiji keeps smiling after the shot (4). Of course to me Eren is dead too, maybe by another bullet, or by poisoning herself, actually the way she dies doesn’t really matters.
    When Eren says “I don’t think we need to go on anymore”(2), she means go on with these lives.

    It may sounds weird, but what really made me think that is that fucking missing petal (7). Why would the producers put that petal on middle of the last screen ? Just because this is not the symbol of death or of any ending, but this is the symbol of life and reincarnation (1,7).(actually the very last screen shows a bullet, probably the one which killed Reiji, but it can still symbolize the Ein’s and Zwei’s assassins lives.)

  41. someguy says:

    Why would the producers put that petal on middle of the last screen? It could symbolize alot of different things. But you know what makes it even harder to make sense of the scenes is that all the episodes before it aren’t clear cut in the way of explaining things as well.

    I Don’t belive that Reiji would of planned with Ellen to end their life. Reiji might not of cared (though he would want to fullfil the promise first)if he did die. But I doubt Ellen would be looking for death. She was looking forward to going to her home and in the end Ellen found these memories that she could now live with. Ellen’s voice is that of Ellen in the end. She sounds happy not like she feels trapped. Unlike Reiji who has the zwei like voice in the end and sounds like he still feels and carrys alot of guilt.

  42. SkyeDrift says:

    I just saw this on wiki!
    Elen is then shown unmoving while looking up at the sky; however a petal of a poisonous flower beside her, Oxytropis, is shown missing. The fate of Elen and Reiji is left unknown, leaving the ending ambiguous.

  43. lubu says:

    I don’t assume anyone is dead ever since the episode where they track Scythe to the docks and have their shoot out. I enjoyed the series, but I feel like the ending was edgy for the sake of having an edgy ending.

    It strained credulity to think that there was an assassin in the middle of mongolia who comes out of nowhere.

  44. Antalk says:

    What a mind f@%k for an ending! Took a while to unwind from it.

  45. Jesse says:

    Yeah im pretty sure someone was in the back of the cart and shot him,Thats my theory anyway. But Why didnt this ”assassin” kill helen too? confuses the hell out of me. But all all around great series im inpressed in the depth of the story line.

  46. Energizer says:

    A bit late but I just finished watching this. Elen died because it is hinted that she ate the poisonous flower.

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Have to say, Flip Flappers ep 5 was pretty good. I love atmospheric settings like that.
Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not so much that I dislike post 50s fellini moreso I feel that his throw everything at the screen and hope what sticks method can be hit or miss.
SuperMario
While I don't really mind his later stuffs because he was masterclass, I have a pretty hard time for Paolo Sorrentino's later works. The thing is I don't care much about the high class society so everything is just ridiculously over the top and glamour and I'm tired of it.
SuperMario
I haven't watched nights of cabiria but I did watch La Strada and boy, I was sad for few days after watching it. Fellini mentioned that he was inspired to make this movie when seeing a woman pushing a cart from behind. The film really carry that sense throughout its running
SuperMario
Michael Haneke put Salo in his top 10 films. Quite understandable when you think about it. Still for me one of the movie that affected me deeply.
SuperMario
I really admire Elle for its ability to maintain its sharpness because under other inexperienced directors it could easily becomes a mess. Mel Gibson, really? He's one of the few actors that I absolutely dislike
SuperMario
@Kaiser: The Red Turtle remains one of the the most refreshing time I had this year in cinema, but then again I haven't watched much films lately. Agree with you on Sonia's performance, and I still think they could cut out the first 20' of the film because it feels out of place compare to the rest of the film
Kaiser Eoghan
Debating whether to bother catching up on I am a hero or watching the film adaptation. I haven't read it since they got rid of that one female character.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I've a feeling you'll like nights of cabiria, Fellini was cranking out some solidly effective social-realist dramas in the 50s before he fell into self-indulgence.
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I have that sound euphonium compilation film downloaded, I should get to that sometime.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also finally watched Salo, I ended up meeting it pretty much halfway. Some parts still retain the ability to effect a modern viewer, having seen his other works though its crazy just how different Salo is to them.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Seeing I, daniel Blake tomorrow and rogue one in a few weeks.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I hope Mel Gibson and Isabelle huppert win at the next oscars.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the red turtle for its visual style of storytelling and animation even if I didn't get as emotionally attached to it as others did. I also watched Aquarius nd was pretty much blown away by Sonia Braga's performance. Elle is now one of my favourite Verhoeven films and its a miracle he managed to maintain such a great balance successfully throughout the film.
SuperMario
I don't care for the sequel of Code Geass at all. Why Spice & Wolf still hasn't got season 3 though is what really bugged me. From what I know their manga and LNs are selling very well
Anonymous494677
I wonder why that is...
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, they were always milking code geass though what with those bajillion-million-billion manga spinoffs.
Kaiser Eoghan
Still say I was more fond of the character chemistry in spice and wolf as opposed to everything else.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll likely pass on the code geass sequel, the memory I have of it has already led to its appeal dimishing for me, I don't want to ruin things further watching an un-neccesary followup. Still avoiding utawerumono's second season for same reasons.
AidanAK47
After all there are things which need sequels and things which don't. And Code Geass never needed a sequel after R2's ending. Giving something a sequel can just ruin the conculsion of the orignal series. Case in point. Eureka Seven Ao. Remember that? Cause you shouldn't. Because it was terrible.
AidanAK47
Honestly I would have preferred Spice and Wolf Season 3.
AidanAK47
So...is anyone gonna mention that Code Geass is getting a sequel?
....Because Code Geass is getting a sequel.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am watching it as well. But I am a bit behind because I am watching the funimation broadcast dub. It's a very good guilty pleasure. I don't find it quite as funny anymore but it's still pure dumb fun.
SuperMario
@Anon487524: I'm still following it and it still remains a fun show to watch. I love the way they do the fan-servicey completely straight.
Topgavin
@anon I'll admit to watching it. While it is very simple and follows the sport anime formula religiously, it's still a blast to watch every week. This is also helped because you have no expectations for it before watching other than "oh god what's gonna happen this week".
Anonymous487524
Granted, nothing special, just one of those anime whose only worth is being fun to watch without being deep, but Keijo really is fun to watch, easily the best guilty pleasure anime in a long while to me.
Anonymous487524
I started watching it expecting an crappy fanservice anime with nothing of worth, but it ended up being actually pretty fun and awesome to watch.
Anonymous487524
Anyone here seeing Keijo?
SuperMario
What's up with 3-gatsu no Lion? Delayed for a week huh?
Kaiser Eoghan
Checked out Hedeki anno's godzilla re-boot earlier out of curiousity, its a bit plodding/dull at times but sometimes its high camp value played straight is kind of funny, having godzilla evolve during the film was a cool touch and I enjoyed every scene with him and making a Godzilla film today is still very relevant. Not a patch on the old ones though.
Anonymous482380
I think that movie was just so terrible that people made it into a meme. Stuff like "The Entire Bee Movie Except Evey Time They Say 'Bee' The Movie Speeds Up"
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm sorry lmao I had to, it seemed so appropriate a moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
AidanAK47
Fun Fact: The whole Bees shouldn't be able to fly thing is a myth.
Badesh
I think that was just a dry realization...
AidanAK47
@Topgavin, It's a meme to post the entire script of the bee movie in random places?
....I don't get the joke.
Topgavin
For anyone wondering, I think anon just copy/pasted the entire script for the Bee movie. Memes are goin strong
Anonymous479946
According to all known laws
of aviation,


there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.


Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.


The bee, of course, flies anyway


because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.


Yellow, black. Yellow, black.
Yellow, black. Yellow, black.


Ooh, black and yellow!
Let's shake it up a little.


Barry! Breakfast i
Kaiser Eoghan
Actually I think it was up to about episode ten or so I saw.
Kaiser Eoghan
From what I can recall I watched legend of the galactic heroes somewhere past the part with the Caligula guy.
AidanAK47
That is one thing I wonder about the remake. How are they going to make the space battles interesting? Cause for me theres only so many times you can watch tin boxes shoot lasers and explode.
AidanAK47
I didn't like LOGH until the third episode. That's when it started to catch my attention. It also helps that I have a interest in history as the plot of LOGH practically reads like genuine history.
AidanAK47
In my case the overhype didn't kill it for me as I generally try to avoid that. When I walked into LOGH I was under the impression that it would ahve merit but not be for me. After all I heard it was mostly politics and the politics of Gundam bore me to tears. Funny enough the opposite happened. The space battles bored me but the politics got me really interested.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, The problem is that the people who say that something is the best thing they ever seen don't actually mean it. Often it's just hyperbole. When talking we other people fans tend to blow certain things out of proportion unintentionally. Overrated is likely the wrong word but you get what I mean.
leahcimali
@AidankAK47 oh and are you going to write a review about it or because psngel already wrote a review of it you are not gonna write it ?
leahcimali
the problem is trying to rank art . Even comparing a comedy show and a story focus show is clearly impossible. @AidanAK47 do you think the overhype of some hardcore logh fan killed you enjoyment of the show ? Because sometimes when you expect nothing of something you can enjoy it more than when waiting for something incredible.
leahcimali
i hear the same thing from fan of lord of the ring, star wars and game of thrones, star trek ... etc. The hardcore fan of those says that they are the greatest things in history ... but saying there are overated is discrediting the quality of those. Nothing is perfect and again maintening equal quality in a longuer running show is impossible. But having a longer story create a more rich background
LookingForKeys
@Mario Kimi no Na ha is pretty damn good. Watched it while in Japan a couple weeks back. The story has well done surprises, and on the graphics side you can *really* see Production IG worked on it.
leahcimali
I don't think saying logh is overated is a good way to say it. All media with great aclaimed critics or even highly popular show suffer from the fan reaction. If fan claim that it is the best things that they have ever saw and you don't agree, it feels overated. But this is only pure subjectivity. Saying he is greastest thing in history is a way for fan to exprim there love
AidanAK47
However it has been placed on a unreasonable pedestal that nothing could live up to. Eva is sort of in the same boat. So yes it is overrated but that does not mean it isn't great.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, if anything is claimed to be the greatest thing in the history of mankind it is overrated. The basic idea that there is a single anime out there which is fundamental and universally better than all other anime regardless of genre or intent is inherently a flawed concept. I do certainly see why LOGH is so highly acclaimed and I believe it is well worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I didn't look into the details of the new LOGH remake. I was planning on doing that when I am doing an anime season preview for it whenever it's going to air next year. For a long anime it does rate highly but even then I am not certain it really needed all 110 of those episodes.
leahcimali
about your comment are you thinking the LOGH anime is overated ? i ask Because you said that there is plenty of anime you consided better .
Anonymous476875
about the remake won't it be a straight adaptation from the manga remake by the artist that made shiki ?
Anonymous476875
AidanAK47 personally i really loved legend of the galactic heroes and it is one of the anime that make one of the biggest impact on me. I found it the best "long" anime that i ever seen (more than 24 ep). But comparing it to anime with shorter format is a bit hard. you can make something that have perfect pacing in 1h30 but it is impossible with a 110 ep anime.
AidanAK47
Either way I am pretty certain that all other isn't crap to me now seeing as I have seen the so called pinnacle. In fact There are plenty of anime I consider better that LOGH.
AidanAK47
There are aspects of its story which wouldn't really work by today's standards.
AidanAK47
And I did it. I watched legend of the galactic heroes. I have slain the white whale of anime. It certainly was interesting to say the least but I think the remake coming is going to have trouble. I am in between giving it a 8 or a 9 but it's clear that LOGH is very much a product of its time.
Kaiser Eoghan
I didn't really care for this weeks flipflappers, the fanservice and also it was even more trigger than I could take.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Gavin@Mario: I'll get round to your name someday but I think this might be my last chance with shinkai.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: That disgaea review made me nostalgic because I remember my friends and I playing it back when it first came out. We found it difficult but were amused by it/liked the characters.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Are the manga posts exclusively for series with only a few chapters translated or series that came out in the past year or so? I've been reading gunka no balthazar and enjoying it enough and think it should get recommendation out there.
Topgavin
Just booked tickets to go see it on Sunday with my little sister. Was surprisingly reluctant but I know she'll like it, I've already seen it but pumped either way.
SuperMario
Your name movie has been showed theatrically here in Aus, I'm planning to rewatch it soon in theatre and then do a review on it. Is that alright with other admins?
SuperMario
so I guess the top 6 will advance to the final are: Otabek Altin (Kazakhstan), Giacometti (Switzerland), Yuri, Yurio, JJ and Phichit? Will be very cool final event haha
SuperMario
At the very least Yuri on Ice shows me how entertaining ice skating can be
SuperMario
@K-Off: have a good trip ahead K-Off. Well, it's still better than Japan (earthquake) I guess
K-Off
Well, heading to Korea tomorrow. What a time to go. In the middle of Korea's biggest financial scandal since the 80s.
Lenlo
Is it just me, or does the Yuri on Ice opening get more colorful and detailed every week?
SuperMario
Badesh, if you like to check out their other songs, give "Tunnels of Love" and "Romeo & Juliet" a listen. Though I just discovered Telegraph Road quite recently, those 2 songs are qmong my all time favorite
SuperMario
I prefer their ealier version when the band was still together (aLCHEMY 1983), but that Rome 2005 was magnificent too. Seriously with this band diifferent live versions feel like another experience... And that song is criminally under-heard in radio too, because of its running time. A crying shame
Badesh
uhh, found it in better quality. now, THAT is a fitting present for my dad :)
Badesh
well that commentator, that sounds like he's in a soccer match, will get on my nerves though...
Badesh
if you're talking about the rome 2005 version... hell, that's some sweet music. i'll inhale that for the rest of the evening, thanks for that
SuperMario
Anyone here listen to Dire Straits? I just in the mood for their music lately. Checked out the band playing Telegraph Road live the other day on youtube and I was completely stunned.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I considered Flip Flappers 3,5,6 to be its best so far so continue on to see if Flip Flappers is your cup of tea or not
SuperMario
For me I have a lot of stuffs to catch up on this time a year, both in terms of anime and in my RL. Time goes fast as hell
Lenlo
Started watching Flip Flappers. Thought I had it figured out, then we got Mad Max going on. I may start liking it more, cause the first 2 eps didnt do much
Lenlo
Its also nearing Thanksgiving in the states and end of semester for University, so those sorts will be busier than usual.
AidanAK47
You are far too young to be reminiscing. You can build a place for a community but you can't force one to come. I for one would think it would be easier to form one if people stopped using the Anon tag. You can change your name with the customize button you know.
Anonymous469664
I remember a time when people other than site admins were regular posters. Those were the days...
AidanAK47
But I suppose watching Westworld isn't exactly a waste of time.
AidanAK47
Downside is that I really don't have a lot of time these days. It's rather annoying. The day goes by and it doesn't really feel like you did anything.
AidanAK47
On the upside, I am nearly finished Legend of the galactic heroes. So when the Remake airs next year I will have a lot to say about it.
AidanAK47
Personally I have been rather busy lately and wanted to finish off a few things. Hence why my posts have been getting later.
AidanAK47
Anyway when there's nothing on the chat box to talk about then of course it dries up.
AidanAK47
You have unfortunate timing.
Anonymous469664
All the chat regulars have left house as well.
Anonymous469664
Four days since a single post.
K-Off
Damn, I don't know if it's the layout/algorithm/mods, but so many subreddits that I used to frequent have gotten watered down as hell. Between the influx of shills and changes to the upvote/downvote system (which doesn't properly convey controversial comments anymore, like 45 upvotes to 47 downvotes. Now it shows only a -2) it's hard to find reasonable debates or find important info
SuperMario
@K-off: and for that book the last time I checked it was $110 for you guys who live US plus free shipping. For us it's $150 not incluing the postage and few weeks delivery.
K-Off
Damn, I didn't realize that it could be that bad elsewhere. The worst experience I had was when I ordered a laser pointer from Switzerland over a forum, and the cunt didn't respond for nearly 4 weeks until I threatened to refund my $250 on PayPal.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Europe. That's the difference.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah I got a dispatch notice saying it's shipping now. I ordered it back in September as well so I don't know why the difference between us.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the days where I used to be relying on waiting for anime dvds to come out locally , looking back they were really overpriced, 35 euro for 4 or 5 episodes.
Kaiser Eoghan
My opinion on FMA alchemist ended up being all over the place because I must have watched 3 episodes every few months of it, then I stopped watching it for a year, got back into it for a few months, abandoned it for months then marathoned 20 episodes in one night to get it finished.
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Mob Psycho 100 Review – 80/100

After the explosive popularity of One Punch Man it really was a high bar that another work of the author ONE had to reach. While it didn’t quite manage that it still differentiated itself enough to allow it to be a worthy anime of it’s own right. But admittedly that will depend on whether this […]

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Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World Review – 91/100

I will be the first to admit that this is very much a biased review as I have come to love this series very dearly and will now proceed to devour every piece of entertainment related to it that I can find until the day a second season is confirmed. The story involves a boy […]

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The House in Fata Morgana Video Game Review – 83/100

Well I promised I would do a review of this visual novel quite a while ago and believe it or not I only just got around to finishing it. If the fellow who requested it is still here then here you go, I kept my word. Anyway it has been a while since my last […]

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Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE Review – 65/100

The title of this game rather says everything you need to know about my initial reaction, and I’m still all around puzzled at the mixed bag that this turned out to be – it IS just a standard mashup while having a bit of fun with some experimentation, but the game itself is actually a […]

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Kizumonogatari Part 1: Tekketsu-hen (2016) Movie Review – 85/100

Just a quick note that I originally intended this week’s review to be about Miss Hokusai. But because of the DVD release of this Kizumonogatari (with good subtitle to boost), I decided to bump this up and review it instead. Monogatari series has been among one of my favorite series, and certainly the one that […]