Posted by psgels on 30 October 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



It’s episodes like this that really remind me why I’m still such a fan of anime. This episode was just… beyond awesome. Major spoilers coming up, do not read this entry if you haven’t seen the episode, and for the rest I can say little else than:

What the Fuck!?

I sort-of suspected that this episode would end with a bang, but this kind of a bang… I never saw coming: freakin’ Beatrice set everything up. The reason why her acting felt so forced was that it was SUPPOSED to be acting: there’s no way Battler was going to notice, and instead Beatrice started playing the innocent victim, while creating a new villain in Evatrice. Holy crap, talk about an awesome plot twist!

I’m now starting to see why Beatrice was supposed to be such an awesome character. The sheer cruelty in which she continuously keeps thinking of scenarios to fool Battler, and does it every time, and at the same time you can see that she isn’t perfect. My guess is that she originally didn’t plan to include the Evatrice plot in this arc, and instead just tried to use her Teacher to confuse Battler, but when he cornered her (when Ronove interrupted her when she was about to give away an important clue) and they went into that emergency meeting of theirs, they decided to go for such an elaborate illusion.

On top of that, Beatrice seems to have two intentions that contradict each other: her first goal is to “win” from Battler: make him acknowledge that she’s a witch. However, on top of that it’s also her “job” to “win” the game endlessly, and she seems to be under the orders of Lambdadelta. While seemingly contradicting each other, could it be that the first goal of hers is also just a red herring? That she simply already is a mage, but needs to keep the Ushinomiya-family in that endless loop of theirs for some reason? That could explain why Battler’s sister suddenly popped up as a major player.

Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa. It’s interesting how Evatrice confirmed that Jessica isn’t one of the murderers, and neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo. However, that doesn’t go for Krauss and Rosa. In fact, while I don’t think that Krauss was the murderer in the first two arcs (perhaps he got killed off before he could get started), but he actually seems like a pretty likely suspect this arc: remember how he said that surprisingly nice comment about how he regrets having been so mean to his family members? After Beatrice’s act and all, I don’t believe one word from that anymore.
Rating: **** (Fantastic)
And remember, I reserve the right to delete posts that talk about what happens in the novel after this episode

42 Responses

  1. illusion says:

    Wow, just updated the page and there’s 18, right after watching it.

    I just have to say that I felt just as trolled as Battler did, jesus christ.

    And Ange is olev.

  2. Brazil says:

    This episode was just amazing. Before it started I was thinking about how I’ve never changed my opinion of a character from bad to good so quickly. That heel face turn face turn heel, was pulled off so superbly. I can’t wait to see what happens next. “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was making people think he didn’t exist”

  3. Rika says:

    Actually Pgels the only survivor is Eva. In this episode Eva shot Battler. and Krauss and Rosa are still dead. The reason there seen to be alive (along with all of the family in the second to last scene) was thanks to Beatrice. The only person to survive this time was Eva.

  4. Doug Napoleone says:

    Eva was the only survivor, the rest was an illusion to make Battler sign. In fact, we see that ’12 years later’? Eva is on her deathbed and hands over the ring to Angie-Betrice. Not sure why Eva aged soo much in 12 years, nor why Angie-Betrice does not look 12 years older than when Battler ‘thought of her’ an episode ago; but whatever.

    There was quite a bit of emphasis put on the Angie-‘Betrice’ part, specifically stating that only another ‘Betrice’ could defeat her.

    I take all this to mean that at the end of this arc, Eva wins all, she killed at a minimum Battler and 3 others, so we now know 1 killer, and the new player is brought in from 12 years in the future down one potential timeline. *brain starts to hurt again*

  5. blkmage says:

    Witches don’t refo~rm☆

  6. chounokoe says:

    !!I’m avoiding any game-content here and restrict myself purely to anime-content!!

    Just a little something (it’s not that horrible to get a bit lost in Umineko at times), as Rika already pointed it out Eva is the only one to survive this gameboard.

    Krauss was found last episode, dead, next to his wife Natsuhi in the rose garden, after they were strangled by the Siestas in the guesthouse.
    Rosa was impaled through the back of her head with a part of the fence in the rose garden in episode 15 after Beato decided to step into Eva-Beatrices endless killing.

    Battler got killed by Eva, or at least that’s what we see after Beato destroyed Eva Beatrice this Episode. Right before the Eyecatcher he accuses her of being the culprit and she pities him saying he was a bit too slow, raises her gun and BANG.

    What happened to Jessica, that is right, we don’t know…we just know that Beato was allowed to stop guarding the room where she hid her…so if Eva really is the culprit, I think it’s safe to assume she did not only shoot Battler.
    But the question remains, who killed Nanjo.

    @psgels: Just a question at the side…do you normaly avoid previews or do you watch them? It’s of course a bit more difficult to guess in Umineko’s case, because they only do web-previews…even though I like that because it saves a good minute if not more in every episode!!
    And yeah, I’m asking because I’m really looking forward to seeing your opinion of the next arc.

  7. Camario says:

    Krauss has already been killed along with his wife, unless either of them are faking their deaths but there’s no real clue to support that right now. On the other hand, we never saw anyone kill Jessica either, but the glimpse of the 1998 world implies that everyone other than Eva did in fact die.

    Still, I thought this was a great episode. The deception was almost perfect, although it did become blatantly obvious moments before its final confirmation and the interruption by Ange.

    Speaking of which, as a new character she seems to be in an interesting position as the last member of her doomed family but does come off as something of a plot device at the moment. I hope we learn more about her.

  8. Zaric says:

    I knew from the instant Battler slapped Beatrice and she had such a severe reaction that she was going to pull off a self sacrifice maneuver, it just made sense. It’s pretty awesome that she was just faking all of that.

    The fact that they then showed Eva as the real killer and then had a 12 years later segment where Eva on hear deathbed is all screwed up, that’s damned cool.

    In sort, this episode validated the rest of the series up until now, it’s fun.

  9. Yeah, this episode was just the best! I’m pretty sure that there’s really a bigger overeaching gameboard, being played by Bernkastel and Lambadelta, with Beato, Evatrice, and Virgilia included among the game pieces (maybe all the furniture too).

    I don’t know where I’m at with the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy thing but I read that Ryukishi07 said that we shouldn’t discount the fantasy too much…so I generally still try to consider that both may exist.

  10. Megaman0 says:

    Man at the start of the episode I was so pissed off…I was like “I’m only going to finish the show because I’m curious to what happens in the end” But thank god that twist saved it all, I thought it was stupid how they ruined Beatrice her character but instead they made her just a million times more awesome. Can’t wait for kungfu girl with skirt that magically conceals panties and what her role in all of this will be.

  11. Anon says:

    @psgels: You should read this short story written by the writer of Umineko about Ange before the next episode as it sets up alot of things

  12. n says:

    @psgels: I would advise against reading the story linked in post 11, actually… It spoils some characters from Episode 4, not to mention there are a bunch of other short stories on that page that are pretty spoilery too.

  13. atr says:

    @11
    tanabata should be read after episode 4, imo.

    why the hell would you spoil the troll?

  14. MagicianMan says:

    Realy? Am I the only one who didn’t by that “har har look at me I’m soooo evil” act at the end? That quick-pained-expression-to-over-exaggerated-evil-laugh could have come straight from the master of pretending to be evil,Lelouch Lamperouge, himself.

    It just doesn’t add up. Sure the stuff she said could have been an act, but what about her internal dialog? Surly there was no need to act in her own thoughts was there?

    I mean it definitely looked like she set him up, but then again I spent the first half of Higurashi thinking that a curse from someone who would be hard pressed to antagonize a fly was responsible.

    I’m not taking anything in this show at face value for a second. There’s more going on with this than we can see.

  15. Taiyaki says:

    Eva was the only survivor of the third game. It’s actually the first time someone manages to get out of the island alive.

  16. MagicianMan says:

    Surely*

  17. Anon says:

    @12 and 13: Tanabata was released with Episode 3

  18. PL says:

    Well I said it last week and I’ll say it again, Umineko is the best thing on right now. Sure, Aoi Bungaku is more literary, Armed Librarians more layered, and Darker than Black has better characters, but Umineko devours them all when it comes to sheer keep me on the edge of my seat, eyes glued to the screen, damn its over already and I have to wait a whole ‘nother week storytelling awesomeness. Psgels has talked in the past about shows with an X-factor. Umineko has X-Y-Z factor. Is it an instant classic, no, it isn’t. But its a clear reminder of why anime is my favorite story-telling medium, because only in anime can you put something like this together. And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has. Mayhaps a day will come when VN technology can accomplish and even surpass the limitations imposed on a passive medium like anime, but until they can make an active medium that is completely animated, and reasonably linear enough to truly tell a story, without making concessions to game-play/animation, anime reigns supreme.

  19. evolstar says:

    Awesome episode. I was totally blown away. Without doubt it is the best episode yet! I’m really looking forward to the ending of this series.

  20. Reltair says:

    Shoot, I was fooled too. I thought Beato might have turned good, but she still seems as insane and cruel as ever. =/

  21. n says:

    @17 no it wasn’t, it was released just this past June, well after Episode 4. Which is reasonable, because it doesn’t make sense before Episode 4.

    It’s a cool story, but you can recommend it later, ok?

  22. Kamikazesim says:

    That was worth the past 6 weeks of build-up. Ever since episode 11, Umineko has been a great successor to Higurashi.

    Beatrice denying the witches in red, Battler crying, and out of nowhere, Battler being in front of Eva, with the shotgun, admitting she was the murderer (with the creepy look in her face) was such a perfect Halloween moment. That scene gave me chills.

    The title “Swindles” could have spoiled the second act of the episode, but I was so engrossed with the episode, I paid no attention to it.

    Seeing “Evatrice” dominate Beatrice at the beginning (leaving nothing but Beatrice’s heart) finally made me believe that Beatrice actually had good intentions and really just wanted Battler to acknowledge her.

    My disbelief that she was good was because where could the series go from Beatrice being nice after the way she acted in the first 2 arcs?

    Sure enough, 10 minutes later, I was right to begin with, but the creators finally hooked me. It was more fun being fooled anyway.

    MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes.

  23. Westlo says:

    “And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has.”

    You have no idea how compelling and moving the VN version of these events were. I rate this episode a 9/10, 4.5/5 etc and if it had 5 scenes with an extra minute it would get a perfect score.. but even than.. it’s nothing compared to the VN events.

    The VN has far more emotional investment in it due to the length of scenes. You’re moved by the way Eva Beatrice treats Beato during the siesta attacks and while Beato tries to find a clue. Imo Eva Beatrice’s red web is still by far the most impressive use of red in the VNs and the anime version was nowhere near it.

  24. T_I says:

    It seems to be that Eva was working with the true culprit before things went wrong and her family got murdered.

    After that Eva had a falling out with the true culprit. Eva somehow managed to kill the true culprit but she herself was at that point of questionable sanity.

    As for the true culprit of this arc? I’m guessing it was Kyrie. This is also the prime reason why Eva killed Battler. It was out of revenge.

  25. Grhasha says:

    The thing I don’t understand is – what are the implications of Beatrice’s denying the existence of witches with red text? Sure, it may have been said to fool Battler, but there’s no way the statement was fake, right?
    As for the episode – yeah, it was definitely the best in the series so far. I had a problem with the current arc because I just couldn’t believe Beatrice’s sudden change of heart. I was waiting for a discovery like this to put everything back in place.

  26. PL says:

    Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.

    Grhasha, she made Battler cover his ears, so he never heard the existence of witches denied in red, therefore, within the confines of the game of wits between her and Battler, it is like it never happened.

  27. Anon says:

    @25 (Grhasha): Can you prove she even said that witches don’t exist? I didn’t see any red text.

    I don’t believe that Eva is the true culprit. That’s just one of the conclusions Battler came up with before his death (we are given no reasoning). Only thing that is certain is that Eva did kill Battler. But as Eva-Beatrice pointed out, Eva wasn’t directly involved in the murder of Nanjo.

    I believe the true culprit(s?) is the one responsible for the sending of the letters and the murders of the initial six. After that everyone else feels like killing their family because they can only suspect the others if they believe that they are only 18 people on the island.

    I hope the next episodes bring similar mindtwists.

  28. battler says:

    Only one thing

    “Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa”

    Why do you think rosa and krauss were alive? they were show and specify in red THEY ARE DEAD. And battler and jessica are missing THE ONLY COMFIRMED SURVIVOR FROM ALL THE ARCS IS EVA.

  29. Rika says:

    @Battler

    Actually Battler is most certainly dead. Eva shot him in the episode. Jessica on the other hand is ‘missing’ although the most likely senario is that she’s also dead.

  30. cad says:

    I was really looking forward to seeing anime-only fans’ faces after this episodes :) When I first saw the look on Beatrice’s face at that moment, I was completely creeped out. When playing I completely fell for it; but I realized the scheme when the contract was shown, and I was literally screaming at Battler not to sign it!

    @Kamikazesim: “@MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes”: I was wondering about that too. There is something that might suffice as an explanation later on but I won’t say more than that…

  31. @Kamikazesim, MagicianMan, Cad: my boyfriend and I agree that Beato’s evil switch seemed questionable. Maybe it’s that she intended to pretend to be “good” for a while, but after she started, she did genuinely develop some feelings of regret and caring, but her evilness just won out in the end. She also couldn’t switch sides because she’s playing in the service of Lambadelta, as we saw later. In fact, I wondered about the purpose of that conversation: was Lambadelta questioning Beato about her eternal service because she was worried that Beato’s softer feelings might be somewhat genuine?

  32. Westlo says:

    Beatrice probably said something along the lines of.. “Hey Eva-B… you’re just a pawn I made, lolololol, dissipate”

    “Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.”

    Ridiculous, you’re saying a book can’t pull you in? A good author can draw you into his world….

  33. Cad says:

    @Jenny: I think you’re probably right, both about Beatrice and about Lambdadelta.

    Without spoiling anything, I’ll say that Beatrice is a superb actor, and this isn’t the only time she acted opposite to what she thought (or “felt”, if you could say that about her…). For this reason it is very hard to get an idea of what’s going on in her mind, and only rarely do we get a glimpse of it. But I think that, if there’s one thing that we do know about her, is that she is cruel in a childish way; for reasons mentioned in these last few episodes. This makes it even hard to judge, if she’s truly evil or just childish (the next arc, in many ways, deals with this).

    About Lambdadelta, she has reasons to want Beatrice to keep up the cruel and heartless appearance, and probably wanted to “motivate” her to continue being as such, to prevent her from becoming softer even by a little. But as mentioned before, Beatrice is such a superb actress she might’ve even trolled Lambdadelta to believe she’s becoming softer. For all we know she could be playing us all. So I don’t really know if Lambdadelta’s “encouragement” was necessary, or if encouraging Beatrice was even her purpose – as with Higurashi, another piece by the same author, things make sense in a completely different way after you understand what’s going on behind the scenes… (to see what I mean, you can rewatch the first and second arcs).

  34. Solaris says:

    I can’t force myself to like this anime. They continue to throw in characters but the real focus of this anime should be the murders and how and why they were committed.
    This board of murders has yet no meaning. It’s just a blood feast of sacrifices to announce Beatrice’s might in an endless fanservice. So it doesn’t matter who dies and why, there’s no meaning in the closed rooms.
    (Meta)Battler is also yet useless as everything he dare say is destroyed by red speech.
    It’s all so useless. I just want to see what they put out of the cilynder at the end of this circus.
    And, by the way, Higurashi was 100 times better.

  35. PL says:

    Westlo, yes a book can, but there is a reason that lots of people dont like comic books, manga, and graphic novels as well as VN’s, even avid readers, and its because the combination of text and imagery along with our modern tv and film trained minds, creates discord in our suspension of disbelief as we switch back and forth from one to the other. My degrees are in Literature and Philosophy, so I love a good book, but when I’m reading say an Umberto Eco novel, I quickly forget that I’m reading at all and simply have a story playing out in my mind. With a comic or even the visual novels I’ve tried, I cant do that because my eyes keep getting drawn back and forth between text and image and I’m unable to completely sink into what I’m watching. And that is why anime is perfectly poised to create worlds that can be as fully imagined as a book, with as many speculative and fantastic elements as it wants, and yet like film, there are no disparate elements.

  36. Solaris says:

    I forgot to say a couple of things:

    1) Jessica is closed in a “closed room” complete with magic circle and numbers last time we saw her.
    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6856/uminekononakukoroni181.png
    Just another unexplained closed room murder.

    2) Beatrice let Battler cover his ears before saying something that apparently dissolved everybody in the room. We don’t know what, and we saw no red text. Another acting/lie?

    3) Eva (real one) shoots Battler (not meta), revealing she’s the culprit. Wow that’s a real deus ex machina!

    It were nice If the arcs were resolved something that way. Something like in the first arc Kinzo wants to revive her mistress and sets up a game of sacrifices. In the second it was all the servitor’s fault who wanted to revive an ancient cult and in the third Eva wants the headship of the family but ends destroying all. Every arc should have been explained in some way to keep the events sustained by some logic, eventually implying the existence of some sort of exotic element called magic. But the blatant use of magic, demons and witches appearing here and there just ruinde the mystey atmosphere, reducing the events in a showroom of gore.
    Well just said far mor than just a couple of things, i return in the shadows, as i’m the one who seem to dislike (or not to undestand) this show.

  37. PL says:

    Solaris, what we are seeing is the story as told by Beatrice who wants Battler to believe that is how it is happening. Remember, very very little made sense in the first season of Higurashi either. It was season 2 that finally started answering questions. I will grant that each arc in Higurashi had more internal logic than each individual arc in Umineko, but that logic got completely overturned so that by the last arc we come to realize we’ve had everything completely wrong. In this show, each arc really only makes sense in light of the entire series. But as someone mentioned above, each arc also makes more sense of the previous arc so that re-watching them causes us to understand the events differently. Battler is going to continue to lose round by round until he unravels everything. Because as LambdaDelta made extra clear, if Beatrice loses a round she loses for good. Whereas, Battler can keep denying magic until he finally wins. Also, Beatrice made all that stuff about saving Jessica and everything up to trick Battler into giving up, so that door probably wasnt sealed and Eva could just walk in and blow Jessica away after dealing with Battler. And why was Eva shooting Battler in this arc a Deus ex machina? If none of the magic happened in that last arc, as it would be if Beatrice had really denied the existence of witches, then Eva is the only one who has been properly foreshadowed as the villain. She had a horrible childhood at the hands of Kinzo and her siblings who she hated, she’s both ambitious and greedy, and she’s psychologically unstable. So it made absolute sense that when Beatrice wanted to create the illusion that she had destroyed herself and Eva-trice, and removed all magic from the game, that she would present it as if Eva killed Battler. Also, Nanjo’s death is finally a puzzle that isnt a closed room puzzle. Instead, it’s that Jessica is incapacitated, Nanjo is murdered at point-blank range, and Battler and Eva are together and everyone else is supposed to be dead, so who killed him?

  38. ebisu says:

    In any case I can’t understand what really goes on with the murders in this third arc. First the incomplete resolution of the six closed rooms, Nanjo surely has some kind of relation with it cause he wasnt in the room when Bea’s story. Kinzo’s death by fire also. Maria’s death is strange(strangled from behind by the prints on her neck). Rosa is dead with the head impaled but she didnt shoot to resist. Krauss and his wife die being strangled with ropes apparently, but they were together in that moment so how did manage the assassin to kill one without the intervention of the other? Why George is with Shannon’s body. The numbers of the door. Nanjo’s killed but not by Eva so the unknown killer should have a reason to target him. Most probably it is Jessica who kills him, it is stated in red “she didn’t commit murder” and Nanjo died by homicide at point blank so, she killed him by accident? And finally the ring(looks like a clue item in this series), I dont know why Eva has it in the end if Kinzo throws it to the raining (or keeps it maybe).
    Just wondering but I hope everything becomes clear.

  39. lalala says:

    sadly, there are no answers yet T_T

  40. Ken says:

    The beauty of the VN genre is that it allows one or a small group of talented person(s) to create a middle ground between a book and an anime.

    To get a book published, you need to satisfy the publisher first before it’s released out to the world. There might be a good story behind it, but if you can’t appease the publisher, it’ll never see daylight. Same goes true for manga and light novels.

    OTOH, in order to make an anime, you need a huge budget and a group of staff, and even a sponsor to air it. Well these days one could make a brilliant anime like Makoto Shinkai all on his own, but not every has such talented animation skills.

    But a VN like Umineko, all you need is one genius named Ryukishi07 and one programmer named BT (and may he RIP) to be released directly to the public. No middleman, no connections, no need for a huge budget.

    So if you like Higurashi and Umineko, think first why this was animated in the first place. It all came from a doujin (amateur) visual novel game.

  41. PL says:

    Ken, Thanks, that does make sense, and I’m not dissing VN’s, I’m just saying that with the current state of technology, anime, for me, is the medium with the most potential for bringing a story to its fullest expression.

  42. heine says:

    I don’t think Beato was fully trolling Battler.

    When Battler asked her if she was truly lying, there was a shot of Beato pausing, and gritting her teeth before she smiled and outright admitted that Battler got trolled. She may have conjured up a brilliant plan, but I also believe she meant some of the things she said to Battler during the entire time.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Lenlo
I mean, decent warrants about a 5-6. That, in theory, should be an "Average" show.
Anonymous1055365
It's a decent show. You're being overly critical.
SuperMario
In the Out of Competition slot (you think that I'm finished?), 2 films in particular that catch my interest are the Korean Lost in the Moonlight which looks like a fun and lightheart adventure, and the Norway-Poland co-production adult-oriented The Man who Knew 75 Languagues about the star-crossed love between the Queen of Romania and a titular man, I guess
SuperMario
Rounding up the Main Competition are Animal Crackers, a 3G American family film which I don't have good feeling about; Big Fish and Begonia - a Chinese indie film that divided the critics, but gathered skyhigh commercial success in its mainland China; and finally Zombillenium which sounds like an enjoyable European children film
SuperMario
From other countries, most notable films are the Loving Vincent - the first feature length hand painting; the Chinese black comedy Have a Nice Day that premiered in Berlin earlier this year; Ethel and Ernest which already gained a strong reviews from the UK; Tehran Taboo- a German production about the lives of 3 women in Iranian community, which sound exactly like my kinda of film.
SuperMario
Alright, I'm here to bring you news about the selection of this coming Annecy AKA one of the best animation festival out there. 3 of anime features: A Slient Voice, In the Corner of the World and Masaaki Yuasa's Lu over the Wall will compete for the main competition.
SuperMario
I'm a fan of thought-provoking anime (see Lain, Boogiepop Phantom) but I need to care about the story and characters first before I make an effort to dig deeper to the theme. Sagrada Reset failed on that fronts.
SuperMario
It's not really about being smart/dumb here. As a creator, they already have an advantage to know how the story and plot will play out. I don't mind this advantage because otherwise the plot will become a hot mess. But don't use that advantage as a way to widen the gap between them and the audience.
AidanAK47
Ugh...Ray Gigant was pretty much mediocre up until this point but now it;s utterly asinine. Whoever decided on this endgame needs to be fired. When you are ready to end a game, no player want a ten floor dungion with a boss on each floor coupled with a goddamn boss rush halfway. Just...fuck.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It must be worse than oremo.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I saw some pages of the eromanga sensei manga and my reaction was that I was sad that it actually existed and stated "why would you even" after looking at it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As an anime example, sekaisuru kado has lots of dialogue but it seems like it could actually be engaging.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So basically no I don't think we're dumb for not liking sagrada reset, given that myself and Mario are capable of watching genuinely smart wordy things and getting them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I can imagine watching Sagrada reset and thinking I'd rather be watching a Bergman film instead , something also with lots of dialogue and themes but actually engaging/clever and NOT pretentious or obnoxious about it.
Anonymous1054942
is it possible that you are all just dumb?
Anonymous1054269
@Mario: I like how you described it as giving a middle finger to the viewers. It's so true. Like, it tries to be intelligent and make the viewer feel stupid, but it just comes off as obnoxious/pretentious.
Lenlo
CGI remains the worst part of it, but we are getting more and more 2D art which I actually enjoy the style of
Lenlo
Its an improvement. The art is better, and maybe its because I prefer this arc, but the pacing is better as well. I gave last season a 3, but this one is more deserving of a 4 and if they can nail certain scenes coming up I may bump it to a 5.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: How's Berserk doing so far? Haven't picked up last week and this week's episodes.
Lenlo
Ground*. I hate it when I fat finger something.
Lenlo
Thats always the worst, when a story starts off promising and then someone runs it into the grouhnd
AidanAK47
@Mario, so it's still at it. To me it's like someone was given an interesting story and made it his mission to ruin it as much as possible.
SuperMario
@Aidan: it's still the same crap. I have a feeling that Sagrada Reset gives a middle finger to us viewers. The plot with development and characters that we have no way to figure out ourselves. The characters who change motive and even personality after each timeline. The main lead girl who act like a robot. I gave this show too many chance so I won't bother to spend more time watching it.
Anonymous1052767
Eromanga sensei
AidanAK47
@Mario, Oh ho, what was the dealbreaker? Just that it didn't change or did something really stupid happen?
SuperMario
Sagrada Reset (long sigh) (scratching my head) (eyes rolling). Dropped
AidanAK47
Hey you.
Konstantinos
Yeah, at this point, this season looks good.
SuperMario
Quite happy with ID-0 and Zero in particular. Zero charms me to no end that I'm still debating whether I should blog it. The trio Re:Creators, Kado, Atom still doing pretty well and the sequels MHA and Bahamut are enjoyable as expected. We have a wide range of anime offerings this season.
SuperMario
Sagrada Reset & SukaSuka I will give it another episode, at least until this current arcs over. They both have potential but Sagrada Reset tries so hard to sound smart, and SukaSuka still falls into its LN tropes which bugged the show down.
SuperMario
*no real urge
SuperMario
I've finally catch up with all other series I wanna follow this season. Alice & Zorouku will be off my list for now, Zorouko is a great character but everything else falls flat so far. I have real urge to continue Attack on Titan and Berserk so I'll wait until they're finished.
Vonter
I watched some episodes of KonoSuba yesterday, reminds me of Those Who Hunt Elves. And I suppose it might be an easy recommendation because it mainly comes down to; do you find it funny? or fun? If not, skip.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While yes its true of watching those slice of life shows week by week is better, I felt that when reading the manga for Aria it was easier to marathon by reading it rather than watching.
SuperMario
Flying witch have the same atmosphere, but it's a purely slice of life anime. I love Aria too and I agree that watching it 1 episode a time is the best way to enjoy it. Can't think of other serious anime that have those calming elements for now
Anonymous1042537
Yeah, I noticed they all have pretty different structures from one another (ACCA's political, Mushishi's naturalistic, Monster is a thriller, Rakugo's about a specific art form, 3-gatsu is ostensibly about Shogi, etc.) but I found that I found some similar calming elements in them (to different degrees of course).
Anonymous1042537
Thanks, I'll definitely check Aria out!
AidanAK47
One of the hardest shows to marathon besides Bakemonogatari. Though Bakomono gave me a headache after a few episodes whereas Aria just had me so mellow that I could drift into sleep at any second.
AidanAK47
Don't know if you could call it a sub genre as the examples you listed are all really different from each other.
Though in the vein of calming shows I think you can add the Aria series to the list. That show is so relaxing that you find yourself nodding off to it. Not out of boredom but it just has that effect on you.
Anonymous1042537
Do you guys know if there's a specific subgenre like this, or am I making it up? And are there other anime with that kind of feel. Not exactly slice of life, but in the general vicinity of it.
Anonymous1042537
The Great Passage was another great example. It delved into the seemingly boring subject matter of dictionary-making, but it was a surprisingly charming show. 3-Gatsu no Lion also looks promising, I enjoyed a lot of the first season (but wasn't a fan of the forced comedy sometimes).
Anonymous1042537
Like the episode where Tenma first meets Grimmer on the train to Prague and they have a picnic on the mountain was so dang good. I really need to rewatch that.
Anonymous1042537
There are some elements of that style in other shows too, but to a lesser extent. Like some parts of Rakguo (mainly season 1) was very soothing. Naoki Urasawa's Monster had some fantastic, almost melancholic episodes like this.
Anonymous1042537
It seems that most anime w/ that kind of style usually also have another genre mixed in. Mushishi was also very naturalistic, ACCA had a political underpinning.
Anonymous1042537
It's sort of in the vein of a "Mushishi" style show. I suspect it's an emerging subgenre of slice of life that's meant to be very calming, relaxing, atmospheric which I really am digging.
Anonymous1042537
I really hope there are more shows like it; not that it was perfect, but it was certainly unique and hit a lot more than it missed. I really like those cool, quiet shows you can enjoy with a nice cup of tea before you go to sleep.
Anonymous1042537
Ironically though, I would say that the first half of ACCA (up until the big flashback) is better enjoyed week by week, or at least that's what I found.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It felt good marathoning a show again rather than waiting week by week and next weekend I'll probably marathon house of five leaves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Forgot to mention...there were certainly a share of moments in Acca that feel fanservish to the female audience =P
SuperMario
@Aidan: haven't noticed that. Will fix it soon.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Only problem I can see is that the posts have no spaces in between paragraphs.
SuperMario
... to be near my laptop for an entire week. First time that I had to blog entirely through my phone. Seemed to work out fine but I had to borrow screenshots from other source (I thank you that other source) ^^
SuperMario
*unless* rather than *as long as*. This has been a crazy week for me as I didn't have a chance
SuperMario
@anon1039488: I find the idea of limiting excess to exclusively stream an aime is a dumb idea; because as long as people have a chance to expose to the anime they won't really care to check it out. So I detest owning the legal streaming account, but I always pay back by buying DVDs/Blurays that I liked
SuperMario
I watched House of Five Leaves by the same mangaka and I really enjoyed it. Nataume Ono is a pretty excelent storyteller (a bit mixed on her art-style thou)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I agree that the first dew episodes of ACCA were not that engaging but the endingg neatly tied up all loose ends. I still feel Grossular's act is kind of messy (why was he under such control from Lilium? He's not that kind to be in such passive role to be honest) but other than those I don't have any real complaints.
Anonymous1039488
Competition is good, but it makes it cost so much to legally watch everything. That's why a lot of people pirate I feel.
Anonymous1039488
You have Crunchryoll and Funi, fine. Then there's Daisuki which is kinda random. Then Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu all have some random anime, though it seems that mainly Amazon has current series
Anonymous1039488
I don't have Amazon Strike, which is like their new venture into anime I guess. There's too many streaming services to keep up with tbh
Kaiser-Eoghan
To be honest I'm pretty crap when it comes to supporting things, I don't pay for almost all the things I watch/read/play, I don't have a crunchy or amazon account, I still pirate legal streams.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Is it a case that your country is blocked? Maybe go for a vpn? If you absolutely have to you could pirate the show...
Anonymous1039488
I wanna watch Re:Creators but don't have Amazon... :( alas
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel like I need to wait and see approach with sekaisuru Kado...this prologue phase is...long...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wish it had been 24 episodes long though to better organize itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Favourite characters were Jean, Groslur and Nino.
Can’t say I cared for the goofy interactions between Jean’s workfriends though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet for whatever I could say about the pacing, when the twists happen they creep up on you and the show mostly lands every one of them, even if I’m not exactly pleased that sometimes the series does the “I pulled it out of the hat/ass” approach.
I’m relatively indifferent on the art/animation.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did feel it picks up, improves by the mid-mark and to an extent the wait is worth it and things do come together even if I wasn’t always totally confidant with how it was getting there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Having the protagonist go from district to district to flesh out the settings a decent enough idea and the main characters a fairly chill, cool guy.
Though the dialogue does create suspicion, intrigue, it does also plod/pad in equal measure at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Finally decided to sit down and watch Acca.
This show had its lovers/haters I’m sure, having watched it my feelings are mixed.
It is a slight breath of fresh air I’ll give it that and makes me want to maybe re-assess of adaptations of the author’s work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The only assayas film I've encountered so far that I disliked was Irma Vep, even though the lead actress was great, the surrounding performances, especially by Jean-Pierre-Lenaud were awful. Sils Maria I was initially evasive of because I'd heard that the relationship between Binoche and Stewarts characters was under-unexplored.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Weersathakul's films are something else entirely...Otherworldly yet still cinematic. I feel a bit underwhelmed after watching the Unknown girl. The identity of the culprit, for example, feel forced for me that take me out our their naturalistic style. I'mmin between Clouds of sils maria too, know it's a good movie but it feels pretentous at times, like the movie Youth
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also got round to watching Unknown girl by Dardenne, it carries enough moments of their brilliance but I felt they didn’t have as much mastery over their usual pacing style this time round, for the first time it felt like a thriller that played out like a drama, rather than a drama that has a pseudo thriller feel to it.
Going to watch Clouds of sils Maria next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The entire second half, which I’d have watched an entire film about is very atmospheric and dreamy/esoteric nearing just exactly the kind of thing I like.
The way he uses/shoots Thailands geography along with his cinematography is impressive, particularly in that second half.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: He shoots something simple like a chopping scene in a strangely engaging way, the scene with the old woman going into the cave is also very impressively shot and that one driving scenes with that pop song in the background has an airy feel to it.
In some ways I agree that there’s a bit of sensuality to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It’s the kind of film that feeling tired/relaxed when watching it isn’t a condemnation of it(although a share of moments in the first half could be patience testing), it’s the sort of film where you aren’t really aware of anything outside of watching the film when you watch it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally looked into a Weersathakul film, Tropical Malady. I don’t even know how to give a star rating for this film.
SuperMario
I'm still on the fence with Alice & Zouroku. Like the title suggests, the warm chemistry between those two are its strongest point, but those moments are far and few in between as the story progresses and I don't care one bit about the Red Queen storyline. I might drop this one if the story doesn't improve
SuperMario
@Lenlo: 3 episodes anf Berserk still hasn't grabbed me as much. Yep facial expressions are really off-putting
Lenlo
Man... the facial expression in Berserk for the 3D models are, ever so slowly, killing me.
AidanAK47
Alright. Tommarrow I will get out all those posts I am late on seeing as the impressions are all finished.
AidanAK47
SukaSuka still has me mixed. On one hand there really are some great ideas and some well executed moments. But some of the dialogue is a bit typical of a light novel and the fanservice is really shameless. The massage at the end of the episode was something the show could really do without.
Konstantinos Travlos
I am in love with RE:Creators. I have no idea if they will keep it as good, but these two first episodes did all the right things.
AidanAK47
Alright, Easter made me lazy so it's time to play catch up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Puran: Or even Georgiou Nikolaidis while I'm at it, morning patrol is a great mood piece. Not familiar with the other guy.
Puran
@Kaiser: No Grammatikos recommendation? :)
SuperMario
I still enjoy Zero pretty much. I like the contrast between the beastfallen and Zero. The hilarious lines sound more like accidental to me, not the best product but I enjoy the ride so far
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree with everything you said. Apparently Haneke put Flashmob on hold because the main actress was conflicting in her schedule, so he decided to do Happy End instead
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Does the old man represent gritty anime of old? I don't know honestly I'm just throwing it out there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: In case you hadn't heard, Haneke dropped the Flashmob movie and is now doing one about the refugee crisis.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To whoever will be playing Godard in that biopic, I'd wonder if they could capture how incredibly douchey he sounds irl lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: There is such a big divide between 50s/60s Bresson and 70s/80s Bresson.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lathimos and Avaranas remind me in an odd way of Tarr in that they're the only Greek filmakers people seem to talk about , Check out Koundorous and Theodorous Angelopolous' works if you can.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Meh, I don't like that sort of overly on the nose social commentary some American films and tv shows do in recent years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Godards extremely hit or miss with me. Hazanavicius did the artist I think, but I'd sooner recommend Biancnieves as a stronger example of a modern take on silent cinema or maybe a Guy Maddin film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lotznitza directed a gentle creature not Zvyagintsev, though the latter is a fantastic director, Leviathan's ending hit me very very hard, its gut punching and I appreciated that the return never went into too much detail regarding the father.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: off topic, I didn't realize Get Out having such buzz reception. It's coming here next week so I will get to watch it
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Michel Hazanavicius makes a biopic about Jean-Luc Godard and Anne Wiazemsky (the actress in Au Hasard Balthazard), which I think will be interesting. I considered The Lobster one of the best film out of that year so I anticipate his next movie a hell lot. Yep, I watched few movies from Andrey Zvyagintsev and he certainly is in my radar. Bleak, social commentary, technical impressive
AidanAK47
Oh, it's confirmed that was what was actually said in Japanese. Well...that's rather cringe worthy.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Can't say I am too fond of it myself. Though that arrow to the knee reference definitely sounds like something the translator added in.
Anonymous1026829
Holy shit Zero is hilarious. "I used to be a mercenary like you once. But then I took an arrow to the knee." "My magic is super weak so I need a powerful offering. Can you loan me your head please?" The comedy is so pointed and understated.
Vonter
I do like how contrasting Zelda is to Nier in the sense that. Zelda cares more about how the game plays and making the player have fun constantly but doesn't care about telling something. Nier Automata doesn't care what it throws to the player but cares a lot about it tells the things that happen to player.
Vonter
I think this is a hard game to score. Mainly because IMO the combat has wear out a bit do to the repetition and the sidequests have been a mixed bag with some being relevant to the plot or themes and some being just fodder to level up. On the other hand the game has a lot of implications, subtext and symbolism that so far has been enriching to reflect upon.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, Actually wrote up 4/5s of a review on Nier Automata but with the new season I haven't had time to finish writing the review. Though my thoughts on it are similar to yours.
Vonter
Nier Automata has a 10+ hour prologue. So far the game feels like it's more interested in delivering strong emotions than a compelling narrative, not that script is poor but seems disjointed in a way, circling around the themes of existentialism, purpose and truth without overexpositing about these things. It also some moments remind me of Fragile Dreams. Like the despair.
AidanAK47
The old man is the one I can't pin down. Been thinking he might represent the kind of anime that's critically lauded but sadly unpopular. Makes sense as he's one of the few on the opening that doesn't stand near ads for his anime. Or else he's a live action drama representative.
AidanAK47
Been wondering about the Re:Creators characters. We got the obvious representatives from Magical girl, Mecha, Light novel and video game. The knight girl looks like clear homage to Saber from Fate so a Visual novel representive? The psycho girl looks to be a chunni anime representative. And the guy who appeared at the end of ep 2 is clearly Shounen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Ramsay one sticks out as the most interesting to me as does the lathimos one. I'm curious about that Russian one about the woman looking for her imprisoned husband as I'd like to watch more contempory Russian films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: If you can get passed the accents Ramsay did a strong piece of social realism in the 90s called Ratcatcher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I think the only Baumbach film I've seen is Frances Ha and I liked the new wavey feel it had. With The lobster and re-watching dogtooth I was able to get into Lathimos' pitch black humour alot more. I've never actually seen a hong-sang so film.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I still really enjoy it but I do get what you mean. Looking at the series overall so far it does feel like there was lost potential.
Amagi
I honestly still don't know what to think of LWA. I wasn't a fan of the formularic first half but the second half doesn't really catch me either. I loved the first OVA though.
AidanAK47
Well I will be damned. That G Koh commenter managed to predict the inclusion of Yggdrasil in Little Witch Academia. Nicely done.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: sadly i won't make it this year. I wanna try the Toronto International Film Fest next time whenever I have a chance
SuperMario
@Kaiser:you heard about this year's Cannes selection?Overall it's solid, not many that scream "masterpiece" for me.Overall I'm exciting for Hong Sang Soo's new movies (he has 2 movies screening at Cannes and 1 already aired at Berlin.What the hell),and The Killing of the Scared Deer(Yorgos Lnthimos), You were never really here (Lynne Ramsay),Okja(Bong Joon Ho) and Meyerowitz Stories(Noah Baubach)
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm...just found out That Blame! 2017 is being done by a the Ajin director, not sure how I felt about that.
AidanAK47
Think this is the best time to end the series too as the difficultly was getting to be a bit too cheap.
AidanAK47
Lore wise it's pretty disappointing. Ending the game with an enemy that doesn't really have that much relevance. But Gameplay wise it was excellent. The final area was just beautiful.
Lenlo
Ringed City was a great piece of DLC and a good way to end the series imo.
AidanAK47
Dark souls sure can give you workout. Finally got around to finishing the ringed city DLC. Funny thing is that people were raving about how hard Midir was when I didn't have that much trouble with him. Gaol gave me some trouble but I managed it. Hardest was the demon prince and god I hate multi stage boss fights. Such a goddamn pain.
SuperMario
Atom still waiting for suitable subs. I swear to God, for a completist like myself the wait is unbearable, especially it should've been available already
HelghastKillzone
Yes it is.
Anonymous1020539
I mean...
Anonymous1020539
Re:producers is really great
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I can see myself chancing more of it, I kind of caught into its rhythm a bit.
AidanAK47
Novels are actually really short. About 90 pages long per volume. They really could cover this in a single cour.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, SukaSuka? From what I could tell it covered the first two chapters of the light novel. Each novel has 5 chapters. Though the first and last chapter are more of a prologue and epilogue respectively.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually if shuumatsu's first episode is going faster than the novel, roughly how much so? Its still obviously a slow burn in animated format but how much was covered in episode 1?
AidanAK47
Could have done without the huge infodump but otherwise still loving Re:Creators. Seeing a magical girl shocked over her own level of destructive power was great.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, I liked the use of music early on in shuumatsu and theres a good mood set up early on along with a good opening scene but the later parts of the episode except maybe for the after credits bit get a shrug from me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Kado has made its hook, now it needs not to keep holding its cards and get going.
SuperMario
hmmm, don't know what to think about Kado ep2. Still good but I expected more
SuperMario
But really my mentality is that this site comes first. Getting more traffic and improve the site are my top priorities, then "what I wanna do for myself" comes later
SuperMario
@Travlos: guess you won't have to read me this season :). Haven't checked out the last episode of Kado yet but based from the first 2 episodes I think you'd enjoy that show.
Don’t worry. It’s something Aidan and me both agree on. We pretty much write for ourselves, otherwise we couldn’t have stayed this long. I get a chance to go off track once in a while to write something I wanna write.
Konstantinos Travlos
@SuperMario. I am definitely watching Shingeki no Koyjin 2, Shingeki no Bahamut 2, Re:Creators, Little Witch Academia, and probably Kado and Zero Kara. I may also do Zipang this season.
On the reaction reaction. What you say is ok. But remember, a hobby is something you do for yourself. There is a limit to how much you should care about the views of others. :)
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Or if I can use a quote from Chang from Black lagoon : "A fragranced shit will forever still retain the smell of shit"
Lenlo
As most likely the biggest Berserk fan in this chatbox, its better but that doesnt make it good. Spraying fabreeze on crap doesnt make it any more appealing. Yet I will watch it anyways.
Anonymous1018231
You don't even know
Anonymous1018231
Lies Aidan it is soooo much better
Anonymous1017807
Tbh I'm enjoying Alice to Zouroku so much simply because I identify with the old guy's no-nonsense attitude. It's fun to see the annoying loli get put in her place. X.D
AidanAK47
Anyway Bam is supposed to be covering it. Seeing as he covered the first season.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I watched the first episode of the second season. Better? Yes, but only slightly.. It has all the same problems as the first season.
Anonymous1017501
and nobody's covering it lol
Anonymous1017501
Like dramatically
Anonymous1017501
It really is much better
Anonymous1017501
You know guys its not too late to start watching Berserk Season 2...
AidanAK47
I just get annoyed when interaction is like "HUMAN, YOUR EMOTION RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT. I THEORIZE THIS IS THE REASON YOUR EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT."
Their is a definite layer of pretentiousness in how it's written, seeing how nobody gets annoyed when every character tries to psychological profile them.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I have heard word that these two episodes were a prologue story and the real story is going to kick into gear next episode. But if the characters keep talking like this then it's not going to matter what happens. It will just be terrible.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Jojo part 5 died for this. That makes it all the sadder. Plus it's two cour so this show is gonna be on for half a year.
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