Posted by psgels on 30 October 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



It’s episodes like this that really remind me why I’m still such a fan of anime. This episode was just… beyond awesome. Major spoilers coming up, do not read this entry if you haven’t seen the episode, and for the rest I can say little else than:

What the Fuck!?

I sort-of suspected that this episode would end with a bang, but this kind of a bang… I never saw coming: freakin’ Beatrice set everything up. The reason why her acting felt so forced was that it was SUPPOSED to be acting: there’s no way Battler was going to notice, and instead Beatrice started playing the innocent victim, while creating a new villain in Evatrice. Holy crap, talk about an awesome plot twist!

I’m now starting to see why Beatrice was supposed to be such an awesome character. The sheer cruelty in which she continuously keeps thinking of scenarios to fool Battler, and does it every time, and at the same time you can see that she isn’t perfect. My guess is that she originally didn’t plan to include the Evatrice plot in this arc, and instead just tried to use her Teacher to confuse Battler, but when he cornered her (when Ronove interrupted her when she was about to give away an important clue) and they went into that emergency meeting of theirs, they decided to go for such an elaborate illusion.

On top of that, Beatrice seems to have two intentions that contradict each other: her first goal is to “win” from Battler: make him acknowledge that she’s a witch. However, on top of that it’s also her “job” to “win” the game endlessly, and she seems to be under the orders of Lambdadelta. While seemingly contradicting each other, could it be that the first goal of hers is also just a red herring? That she simply already is a mage, but needs to keep the Ushinomiya-family in that endless loop of theirs for some reason? That could explain why Battler’s sister suddenly popped up as a major player.

Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa. It’s interesting how Evatrice confirmed that Jessica isn’t one of the murderers, and neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo. However, that doesn’t go for Krauss and Rosa. In fact, while I don’t think that Krauss was the murderer in the first two arcs (perhaps he got killed off before he could get started), but he actually seems like a pretty likely suspect this arc: remember how he said that surprisingly nice comment about how he regrets having been so mean to his family members? After Beatrice’s act and all, I don’t believe one word from that anymore.
Rating: **** (Fantastic)
And remember, I reserve the right to delete posts that talk about what happens in the novel after this episode

42 Responses

  1. illusion says:

    Wow, just updated the page and there’s 18, right after watching it.

    I just have to say that I felt just as trolled as Battler did, jesus christ.

    And Ange is olev.

  2. Brazil says:

    This episode was just amazing. Before it started I was thinking about how I’ve never changed my opinion of a character from bad to good so quickly. That heel face turn face turn heel, was pulled off so superbly. I can’t wait to see what happens next. “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was making people think he didn’t exist”

  3. Rika says:

    Actually Pgels the only survivor is Eva. In this episode Eva shot Battler. and Krauss and Rosa are still dead. The reason there seen to be alive (along with all of the family in the second to last scene) was thanks to Beatrice. The only person to survive this time was Eva.

  4. Doug Napoleone says:

    Eva was the only survivor, the rest was an illusion to make Battler sign. In fact, we see that ’12 years later’? Eva is on her deathbed and hands over the ring to Angie-Betrice. Not sure why Eva aged soo much in 12 years, nor why Angie-Betrice does not look 12 years older than when Battler ‘thought of her’ an episode ago; but whatever.

    There was quite a bit of emphasis put on the Angie-‘Betrice’ part, specifically stating that only another ‘Betrice’ could defeat her.

    I take all this to mean that at the end of this arc, Eva wins all, she killed at a minimum Battler and 3 others, so we now know 1 killer, and the new player is brought in from 12 years in the future down one potential timeline. *brain starts to hurt again*

  5. blkmage says:

    Witches don’t refo~rm☆

  6. chounokoe says:

    !!I’m avoiding any game-content here and restrict myself purely to anime-content!!

    Just a little something (it’s not that horrible to get a bit lost in Umineko at times), as Rika already pointed it out Eva is the only one to survive this gameboard.

    Krauss was found last episode, dead, next to his wife Natsuhi in the rose garden, after they were strangled by the Siestas in the guesthouse.
    Rosa was impaled through the back of her head with a part of the fence in the rose garden in episode 15 after Beato decided to step into Eva-Beatrices endless killing.

    Battler got killed by Eva, or at least that’s what we see after Beato destroyed Eva Beatrice this Episode. Right before the Eyecatcher he accuses her of being the culprit and she pities him saying he was a bit too slow, raises her gun and BANG.

    What happened to Jessica, that is right, we don’t know…we just know that Beato was allowed to stop guarding the room where she hid her…so if Eva really is the culprit, I think it’s safe to assume she did not only shoot Battler.
    But the question remains, who killed Nanjo.

    @psgels: Just a question at the side…do you normaly avoid previews or do you watch them? It’s of course a bit more difficult to guess in Umineko’s case, because they only do web-previews…even though I like that because it saves a good minute if not more in every episode!!
    And yeah, I’m asking because I’m really looking forward to seeing your opinion of the next arc.

  7. Camario says:

    Krauss has already been killed along with his wife, unless either of them are faking their deaths but there’s no real clue to support that right now. On the other hand, we never saw anyone kill Jessica either, but the glimpse of the 1998 world implies that everyone other than Eva did in fact die.

    Still, I thought this was a great episode. The deception was almost perfect, although it did become blatantly obvious moments before its final confirmation and the interruption by Ange.

    Speaking of which, as a new character she seems to be in an interesting position as the last member of her doomed family but does come off as something of a plot device at the moment. I hope we learn more about her.

  8. Zaric says:

    I knew from the instant Battler slapped Beatrice and she had such a severe reaction that she was going to pull off a self sacrifice maneuver, it just made sense. It’s pretty awesome that she was just faking all of that.

    The fact that they then showed Eva as the real killer and then had a 12 years later segment where Eva on hear deathbed is all screwed up, that’s damned cool.

    In sort, this episode validated the rest of the series up until now, it’s fun.

  9. Yeah, this episode was just the best! I’m pretty sure that there’s really a bigger overeaching gameboard, being played by Bernkastel and Lambadelta, with Beato, Evatrice, and Virgilia included among the game pieces (maybe all the furniture too).

    I don’t know where I’m at with the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy thing but I read that Ryukishi07 said that we shouldn’t discount the fantasy too much…so I generally still try to consider that both may exist.

  10. Megaman0 says:

    Man at the start of the episode I was so pissed off…I was like “I’m only going to finish the show because I’m curious to what happens in the end” But thank god that twist saved it all, I thought it was stupid how they ruined Beatrice her character but instead they made her just a million times more awesome. Can’t wait for kungfu girl with skirt that magically conceals panties and what her role in all of this will be.

  11. Anon says:

    @psgels: You should read this short story written by the writer of Umineko about Ange before the next episode as it sets up alot of things

  12. n says:

    @psgels: I would advise against reading the story linked in post 11, actually… It spoils some characters from Episode 4, not to mention there are a bunch of other short stories on that page that are pretty spoilery too.

  13. atr says:

    @11
    tanabata should be read after episode 4, imo.

    why the hell would you spoil the troll?

  14. MagicianMan says:

    Realy? Am I the only one who didn’t by that “har har look at me I’m soooo evil” act at the end? That quick-pained-expression-to-over-exaggerated-evil-laugh could have come straight from the master of pretending to be evil,Lelouch Lamperouge, himself.

    It just doesn’t add up. Sure the stuff she said could have been an act, but what about her internal dialog? Surly there was no need to act in her own thoughts was there?

    I mean it definitely looked like she set him up, but then again I spent the first half of Higurashi thinking that a curse from someone who would be hard pressed to antagonize a fly was responsible.

    I’m not taking anything in this show at face value for a second. There’s more going on with this than we can see.

  15. Taiyaki says:

    Eva was the only survivor of the third game. It’s actually the first time someone manages to get out of the island alive.

  16. MagicianMan says:

    Surely*

  17. Anon says:

    @12 and 13: Tanabata was released with Episode 3

  18. PL says:

    Well I said it last week and I’ll say it again, Umineko is the best thing on right now. Sure, Aoi Bungaku is more literary, Armed Librarians more layered, and Darker than Black has better characters, but Umineko devours them all when it comes to sheer keep me on the edge of my seat, eyes glued to the screen, damn its over already and I have to wait a whole ‘nother week storytelling awesomeness. Psgels has talked in the past about shows with an X-factor. Umineko has X-Y-Z factor. Is it an instant classic, no, it isn’t. But its a clear reminder of why anime is my favorite story-telling medium, because only in anime can you put something like this together. And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has. Mayhaps a day will come when VN technology can accomplish and even surpass the limitations imposed on a passive medium like anime, but until they can make an active medium that is completely animated, and reasonably linear enough to truly tell a story, without making concessions to game-play/animation, anime reigns supreme.

  19. evolstar says:

    Awesome episode. I was totally blown away. Without doubt it is the best episode yet! I’m really looking forward to the ending of this series.

  20. Reltair says:

    Shoot, I was fooled too. I thought Beato might have turned good, but she still seems as insane and cruel as ever. =/

  21. n says:

    @17 no it wasn’t, it was released just this past June, well after Episode 4. Which is reasonable, because it doesn’t make sense before Episode 4.

    It’s a cool story, but you can recommend it later, ok?

  22. Kamikazesim says:

    That was worth the past 6 weeks of build-up. Ever since episode 11, Umineko has been a great successor to Higurashi.

    Beatrice denying the witches in red, Battler crying, and out of nowhere, Battler being in front of Eva, with the shotgun, admitting she was the murderer (with the creepy look in her face) was such a perfect Halloween moment. That scene gave me chills.

    The title “Swindles” could have spoiled the second act of the episode, but I was so engrossed with the episode, I paid no attention to it.

    Seeing “Evatrice” dominate Beatrice at the beginning (leaving nothing but Beatrice’s heart) finally made me believe that Beatrice actually had good intentions and really just wanted Battler to acknowledge her.

    My disbelief that she was good was because where could the series go from Beatrice being nice after the way she acted in the first 2 arcs?

    Sure enough, 10 minutes later, I was right to begin with, but the creators finally hooked me. It was more fun being fooled anyway.

    MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes.

  23. Westlo says:

    “And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has.”

    You have no idea how compelling and moving the VN version of these events were. I rate this episode a 9/10, 4.5/5 etc and if it had 5 scenes with an extra minute it would get a perfect score.. but even than.. it’s nothing compared to the VN events.

    The VN has far more emotional investment in it due to the length of scenes. You’re moved by the way Eva Beatrice treats Beato during the siesta attacks and while Beato tries to find a clue. Imo Eva Beatrice’s red web is still by far the most impressive use of red in the VNs and the anime version was nowhere near it.

  24. T_I says:

    It seems to be that Eva was working with the true culprit before things went wrong and her family got murdered.

    After that Eva had a falling out with the true culprit. Eva somehow managed to kill the true culprit but she herself was at that point of questionable sanity.

    As for the true culprit of this arc? I’m guessing it was Kyrie. This is also the prime reason why Eva killed Battler. It was out of revenge.

  25. Grhasha says:

    The thing I don’t understand is – what are the implications of Beatrice’s denying the existence of witches with red text? Sure, it may have been said to fool Battler, but there’s no way the statement was fake, right?
    As for the episode – yeah, it was definitely the best in the series so far. I had a problem with the current arc because I just couldn’t believe Beatrice’s sudden change of heart. I was waiting for a discovery like this to put everything back in place.

  26. PL says:

    Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.

    Grhasha, she made Battler cover his ears, so he never heard the existence of witches denied in red, therefore, within the confines of the game of wits between her and Battler, it is like it never happened.

  27. Anon says:

    @25 (Grhasha): Can you prove she even said that witches don’t exist? I didn’t see any red text.

    I don’t believe that Eva is the true culprit. That’s just one of the conclusions Battler came up with before his death (we are given no reasoning). Only thing that is certain is that Eva did kill Battler. But as Eva-Beatrice pointed out, Eva wasn’t directly involved in the murder of Nanjo.

    I believe the true culprit(s?) is the one responsible for the sending of the letters and the murders of the initial six. After that everyone else feels like killing their family because they can only suspect the others if they believe that they are only 18 people on the island.

    I hope the next episodes bring similar mindtwists.

  28. battler says:

    Only one thing

    “Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa”

    Why do you think rosa and krauss were alive? they were show and specify in red THEY ARE DEAD. And battler and jessica are missing THE ONLY COMFIRMED SURVIVOR FROM ALL THE ARCS IS EVA.

  29. Rika says:

    @Battler

    Actually Battler is most certainly dead. Eva shot him in the episode. Jessica on the other hand is ‘missing’ although the most likely senario is that she’s also dead.

  30. cad says:

    I was really looking forward to seeing anime-only fans’ faces after this episodes :) When I first saw the look on Beatrice’s face at that moment, I was completely creeped out. When playing I completely fell for it; but I realized the scheme when the contract was shown, and I was literally screaming at Battler not to sign it!

    @Kamikazesim: “@MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes”: I was wondering about that too. There is something that might suffice as an explanation later on but I won’t say more than that…

  31. @Kamikazesim, MagicianMan, Cad: my boyfriend and I agree that Beato’s evil switch seemed questionable. Maybe it’s that she intended to pretend to be “good” for a while, but after she started, she did genuinely develop some feelings of regret and caring, but her evilness just won out in the end. She also couldn’t switch sides because she’s playing in the service of Lambadelta, as we saw later. In fact, I wondered about the purpose of that conversation: was Lambadelta questioning Beato about her eternal service because she was worried that Beato’s softer feelings might be somewhat genuine?

  32. Westlo says:

    Beatrice probably said something along the lines of.. “Hey Eva-B… you’re just a pawn I made, lolololol, dissipate”

    “Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.”

    Ridiculous, you’re saying a book can’t pull you in? A good author can draw you into his world….

  33. Cad says:

    @Jenny: I think you’re probably right, both about Beatrice and about Lambdadelta.

    Without spoiling anything, I’ll say that Beatrice is a superb actor, and this isn’t the only time she acted opposite to what she thought (or “felt”, if you could say that about her…). For this reason it is very hard to get an idea of what’s going on in her mind, and only rarely do we get a glimpse of it. But I think that, if there’s one thing that we do know about her, is that she is cruel in a childish way; for reasons mentioned in these last few episodes. This makes it even hard to judge, if she’s truly evil or just childish (the next arc, in many ways, deals with this).

    About Lambdadelta, she has reasons to want Beatrice to keep up the cruel and heartless appearance, and probably wanted to “motivate” her to continue being as such, to prevent her from becoming softer even by a little. But as mentioned before, Beatrice is such a superb actress she might’ve even trolled Lambdadelta to believe she’s becoming softer. For all we know she could be playing us all. So I don’t really know if Lambdadelta’s “encouragement” was necessary, or if encouraging Beatrice was even her purpose – as with Higurashi, another piece by the same author, things make sense in a completely different way after you understand what’s going on behind the scenes… (to see what I mean, you can rewatch the first and second arcs).

  34. Solaris says:

    I can’t force myself to like this anime. They continue to throw in characters but the real focus of this anime should be the murders and how and why they were committed.
    This board of murders has yet no meaning. It’s just a blood feast of sacrifices to announce Beatrice’s might in an endless fanservice. So it doesn’t matter who dies and why, there’s no meaning in the closed rooms.
    (Meta)Battler is also yet useless as everything he dare say is destroyed by red speech.
    It’s all so useless. I just want to see what they put out of the cilynder at the end of this circus.
    And, by the way, Higurashi was 100 times better.

  35. PL says:

    Westlo, yes a book can, but there is a reason that lots of people dont like comic books, manga, and graphic novels as well as VN’s, even avid readers, and its because the combination of text and imagery along with our modern tv and film trained minds, creates discord in our suspension of disbelief as we switch back and forth from one to the other. My degrees are in Literature and Philosophy, so I love a good book, but when I’m reading say an Umberto Eco novel, I quickly forget that I’m reading at all and simply have a story playing out in my mind. With a comic or even the visual novels I’ve tried, I cant do that because my eyes keep getting drawn back and forth between text and image and I’m unable to completely sink into what I’m watching. And that is why anime is perfectly poised to create worlds that can be as fully imagined as a book, with as many speculative and fantastic elements as it wants, and yet like film, there are no disparate elements.

  36. Solaris says:

    I forgot to say a couple of things:

    1) Jessica is closed in a “closed room” complete with magic circle and numbers last time we saw her.
    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6856/uminekononakukoroni181.png
    Just another unexplained closed room murder.

    2) Beatrice let Battler cover his ears before saying something that apparently dissolved everybody in the room. We don’t know what, and we saw no red text. Another acting/lie?

    3) Eva (real one) shoots Battler (not meta), revealing she’s the culprit. Wow that’s a real deus ex machina!

    It were nice If the arcs were resolved something that way. Something like in the first arc Kinzo wants to revive her mistress and sets up a game of sacrifices. In the second it was all the servitor’s fault who wanted to revive an ancient cult and in the third Eva wants the headship of the family but ends destroying all. Every arc should have been explained in some way to keep the events sustained by some logic, eventually implying the existence of some sort of exotic element called magic. But the blatant use of magic, demons and witches appearing here and there just ruinde the mystey atmosphere, reducing the events in a showroom of gore.
    Well just said far mor than just a couple of things, i return in the shadows, as i’m the one who seem to dislike (or not to undestand) this show.

  37. PL says:

    Solaris, what we are seeing is the story as told by Beatrice who wants Battler to believe that is how it is happening. Remember, very very little made sense in the first season of Higurashi either. It was season 2 that finally started answering questions. I will grant that each arc in Higurashi had more internal logic than each individual arc in Umineko, but that logic got completely overturned so that by the last arc we come to realize we’ve had everything completely wrong. In this show, each arc really only makes sense in light of the entire series. But as someone mentioned above, each arc also makes more sense of the previous arc so that re-watching them causes us to understand the events differently. Battler is going to continue to lose round by round until he unravels everything. Because as LambdaDelta made extra clear, if Beatrice loses a round she loses for good. Whereas, Battler can keep denying magic until he finally wins. Also, Beatrice made all that stuff about saving Jessica and everything up to trick Battler into giving up, so that door probably wasnt sealed and Eva could just walk in and blow Jessica away after dealing with Battler. And why was Eva shooting Battler in this arc a Deus ex machina? If none of the magic happened in that last arc, as it would be if Beatrice had really denied the existence of witches, then Eva is the only one who has been properly foreshadowed as the villain. She had a horrible childhood at the hands of Kinzo and her siblings who she hated, she’s both ambitious and greedy, and she’s psychologically unstable. So it made absolute sense that when Beatrice wanted to create the illusion that she had destroyed herself and Eva-trice, and removed all magic from the game, that she would present it as if Eva killed Battler. Also, Nanjo’s death is finally a puzzle that isnt a closed room puzzle. Instead, it’s that Jessica is incapacitated, Nanjo is murdered at point-blank range, and Battler and Eva are together and everyone else is supposed to be dead, so who killed him?

  38. ebisu says:

    In any case I can’t understand what really goes on with the murders in this third arc. First the incomplete resolution of the six closed rooms, Nanjo surely has some kind of relation with it cause he wasnt in the room when Bea’s story. Kinzo’s death by fire also. Maria’s death is strange(strangled from behind by the prints on her neck). Rosa is dead with the head impaled but she didnt shoot to resist. Krauss and his wife die being strangled with ropes apparently, but they were together in that moment so how did manage the assassin to kill one without the intervention of the other? Why George is with Shannon’s body. The numbers of the door. Nanjo’s killed but not by Eva so the unknown killer should have a reason to target him. Most probably it is Jessica who kills him, it is stated in red “she didn’t commit murder” and Nanjo died by homicide at point blank so, she killed him by accident? And finally the ring(looks like a clue item in this series), I dont know why Eva has it in the end if Kinzo throws it to the raining (or keeps it maybe).
    Just wondering but I hope everything becomes clear.

  39. lalala says:

    sadly, there are no answers yet T_T

  40. Ken says:

    The beauty of the VN genre is that it allows one or a small group of talented person(s) to create a middle ground between a book and an anime.

    To get a book published, you need to satisfy the publisher first before it’s released out to the world. There might be a good story behind it, but if you can’t appease the publisher, it’ll never see daylight. Same goes true for manga and light novels.

    OTOH, in order to make an anime, you need a huge budget and a group of staff, and even a sponsor to air it. Well these days one could make a brilliant anime like Makoto Shinkai all on his own, but not every has such talented animation skills.

    But a VN like Umineko, all you need is one genius named Ryukishi07 and one programmer named BT (and may he RIP) to be released directly to the public. No middleman, no connections, no need for a huge budget.

    So if you like Higurashi and Umineko, think first why this was animated in the first place. It all came from a doujin (amateur) visual novel game.

  41. PL says:

    Ken, Thanks, that does make sense, and I’m not dissing VN’s, I’m just saying that with the current state of technology, anime, for me, is the medium with the most potential for bringing a story to its fullest expression.

  42. heine says:

    I don’t think Beato was fully trolling Battler.

    When Battler asked her if she was truly lying, there was a shot of Beato pausing, and gritting her teeth before she smiled and outright admitted that Battler got trolled. She may have conjured up a brilliant plan, but I also believe she meant some of the things she said to Battler during the entire time.

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Not that its abandoned its comedic elements.
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Hero Aca, still my favorite Shounen.
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FERRIS NYAN-NYAN OmO kill it, kill it with muh-fire, kill it with muh-fire.
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I can't wear a suit to work everyday
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*wotaku's
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You are now aware that you un-intentionally stealth cosplay as watoki's protagonist each time you go to work.
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Pretty sure Psgels is paying to keep the site up but it's not a sum that one would consider significant. Site is dirt cheap.
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Out of curiosity, what videoplayer (example media player, realplayer, winamp, vlc, mediaplayer classic)do all of you use for watching anime?
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You silly old people
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All these "confessions" just underline how old we all are; and still keep on that stupid hobby after all those years :))
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I first visited the site around 2009, 2010 but was pretty much a lurker until I started writing for the site.
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As far as I know, psgels gave the admin privilege for K-Off and Aidan, and it's K-Off who pays for the site now (other admins pls confirm)
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The blog began in 2005, but I started reading it in 2009, began posting on the chatbox in 2010.
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How old is this blog anyway? I am a regular reader since 2006 or something although it was only recently that I started talking here.
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*wiki article
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@Lenlo: Read the cultural impact of the original ashita no Joe on the youtube article, Japanese actually mass mourned him
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I always struggle with commenting/reviewing mood pieces and slice of life mood pieces especially, even when I finish something in the genre sometimes I'll go "I don't understand why this worked so well for me, why wasn't it boring?"
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Microsot E3 Press Conference was nuts, they showed too many games.
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https://youtu.be/PdjwePOIbQA
Anonymous2187735
Yeah, and an NES prequel to Bloodstained Ritual of the Night launched a couple of weeks ago. And while easier than NES castlevanias it's quite fun. Also very cheap only $10.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Alas, I've not kept up much with the videogame scene in a number of years. I know there's a spiritual successor to castlevania being made though.
Anonymous2187735
Sorry Nightmare Creatures its what it's called.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually come to think of it, the 64 games probably had more vampires than the others I played.
Anonymous2187735
Have you played the game that inspired this Castlevania? Deadly Creatures?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Never did get round to playing as Henry though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember the garden stage being especially frustrating as Schneider because of how slow he moved.
Anonymous2187735
Also that game demands you to play on normal or higher to play beyond that nitro stage.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember having to finish the game in a day because I was saddled with constantly rubbish memory cards for my N64.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry, I post fast and long so some of what I say probably might get missed/skimmed over.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually I did mention it, called it the nitro stage.
Anonymous2187735
Still I think despite the flaws it's has become fun for me because I surprisingly get better each time I play it. and last time I make the game chug because of how fast I was progressing.
Anonymous2187735
Yeah. But I'm surprised you don't mention the worst part. The Nitro and Mandragora level. In which you have to go across several rooms without jumping.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I remember the game punishes you for using the item seller guy too much aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember the mansion level being creepy back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But the werewolf thing was pretty rad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And then there was that crumbling labyrinth stage. I remember on hard mode you have to fight the chainsaw gardener too.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The art tower stage is also annoying if you run out of day/night cards.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also it wouldn't let you finish it properly if you took too long.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The N64 castlevanias have so many flaws, weird controls , bad camera , the day and night feature is kind of cool but it also puts a timer on things and certain parts become a pain because of it. They had frustrating bits too like the ice castle part with the weird jump sections and the nitro carrying stage.
Anonymous2187417
Lords of Shadow was another IP the developer had to accomodate into a known IP kinda like Star Fox Adventures.
Anonymous2187417
The other Castlevanias I haven't played are Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. LoS was ok but very long. and it's interquel Mirror of Fate put me off playing LoS2.
Anonymous2187417
I haven't played that one. Seems like a mixed bag. Like Zelda 2 or Metroid 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've seen playthroughs of simon's quest, but we all know why thats a notorious mess.
Anonymous2187417
Castlevania 64 and Legacy of Darkness are also my guilty pleasures. I think if Konami still made Castlevanias it would have tried aping the Souls type of gameplay.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember some very very silly voice acting and dialogue in symphony of the night.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I preferred when they were just platform games. Later ones incoperated level up elements if I recall.
Anonymous2187417
After SOTN I think the game coming closer to that greatness is Order of Ecclesia if anything it keeps the difficulty of the classic Castlevanias and puts it in the Metroidvania formula. It has a platforming challenge level that's very satisfying to play.
Anonymous2187417
I've played most of them. Castlevania 3 is a very tough game, but that also makes the journey feel long and rewarding. Rondo of Blood feels like the cornerstone of the series since it's the Castlevania that got most of it's sprite reused in later games.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Reminds me, the game, clocktower is vaguely inspired by an old Italian horror film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And symphony of the night.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I actually feel I should have played more castlevania back in the day, I've played bloodlines, castlevania 4, Dracula X, legacy of darkness, admittedly the last one isn't a good game and is more of a guilty pleasure.
Anonymous2186526
They could still meet Grant in the Clocktower.
Anonymous2186526
I wonder if the second season will be the journey to the castle like in the game. And the third season is entirely in the castle.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Already a season 3 announced.
Lenlo
Oh god yes. I cant wait
Kaiser-Eoghan
New netflix castlevania episodes out next month.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was going to mention that. Wish more shows would do o.
Lenlo
Yeah, a lot of plot threads are converging and I like it. My favorite part though was Iglesias and their commitment to non-japanese languages. They were good!
Kaiser-Eoghan
*his bit
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Glad that sachio gets hit bit of backstory and that its well connected to the rest of the overall plot.
Lenlo
Alright Megalo Box was pretty good this week. So much to say
KTravlos
Indeed the Alliance system is atypical of mass democracy. There seem to be no organised parties and lists. Instead administrations seem to be formed on a personalist basis(me and my chums). And the Assembly seems to have very weak powers of oversight. A very flawed institutionally system. But I digress . It is still anime and even from Tanaka I do not expect deep discussion of democratic politics
KTravlos
I mean if two of 9 ministers in an administration resigned in any current representative/competitive election system it would be a big news and embarrassment to the goverment. My guess is that they were blackmailed to stay on, or were too afraid of the war party.
KTravlos
busy weeks (finals and deadlines). Watched the latest LOGH:NT episode. It was ok. A bit dry, but so are many of the episodes of NT or the Original on their own. One think it led me to think is that neither the books , nor the OVA, nor NT explain why Rebelo/Lebello and Huang Rui (the two politicians opposed to the Invasion of the Empire) did not resign in opposition. (Turnhit also opposed but..)
Lenlo
I think its cause of Daru's voice. Hes so overt about it and his voice makes it so clear hes not really being serious about any of that, cause it completely changes when hes talking serious subjects
Amagi
@Kaiser: Yeah I am watching CCS but funny enough I fell behind too, so it might be someone else you're thinking of
Kaiser-Eoghan
Always felt that Daru strikes a hit when it comes to pervy/otaku characters. Most of them tend to be incredibly annoying.
Lenlo
This episode was nice and chill while still moving stuff forward. I enjoyed it. It does seem like we are hitting the main conflict though, with Amadeus and Maho
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I feel with this episode the plot is really moving along now.
Lenlo
@Kaiser, Thats the question aint it? How to savem both? We know he does, cause of the original, but alot happens along the way. Its a great ride
Kaiser-Eoghan
Bad light novels would make for good fire and burning material =)
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I think it was you who was keeping up with the new cardcaptor sakura? or may that was bokusenou? I fell behind in it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Given Japan is often thought to be a racist society.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I suppose though its saying something though, about them dropping that LN author for racism , its probably, considering its Japan, progressive that they called him out for his racisim.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Angel cop's Japanese version I think had some rant about Judaisim in its last episode too I think.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Honestly I try not to seek out stories about how awful certain creators are if I can.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Viz decided not to run Kenshin's followup/side story manga. But oddly they decided to keep going with toriko even though toriko's author also got in trouble for pedophilic charges.
AidanAK47
Looking at that Isekai anime I say we we saved from something truly terrible. Though I find it odd that it was dropped because the author was a racist not because of it well...being goddamn terrible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I watched a random episode, laughed more than I should have.
Amagi
btw Is anyone besides me watching Tiramisu? Am I the only one that finds this shit funny?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I'd only read the ANN article title and decided I wouldn't entertain the comments by reading on.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: How do I save them both @steins;gate, how do I save both Kurisu AND mayuri, this is hurting me ;o;
Amagi
I am just reading what he liked on twitter and said (seems to be the director), what the hell
Amagi
@Kaiser-Eoghan: Man, I never heard of this. The anime was just harmless comedy, didn't expect that to be honest.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Apparently the guy who did Net-juu was in trouble for making anti-Semitic remarks, not anti-Netanyahu remarks, actual anti-Jewish remarks.
Amagi
@Kaiser-Eoghan: But yeah it's not that we lost anything or so. I am rather interested in what kind of series the studio will do now instead (inb4 some different LN isekai)
Amagi
Chinese manga fans were protesting for a while already, then one of the VAs quit and now they're cancelling the whole thing. The author also made racist posts against Chinese ppl don't know what though.
Amagi
Seems like it was hinting the MC to be a Nanking "hero" that seems to be the problem, there seem to be a lot of dog whistles in there and God rewards this guy when he died at 94, literally saying he's "ideologically sound" (just saying what I see in the threads).
Kaiser-Eoghan
*isekai light novels
Kaiser-Eoghan
A minor victory against the anti-art/anti-intellectual movement, may more light novels fall =)
Amagi
edit: LN seems to be cancelled too
Kaiser-Eoghan
*might result*
Amagi
seems like they cancelled that isekai anime LN adaption because of racism of the author and the story
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Dropping the no porn rule result however in only releasing games where they felt safer about uncensoring the content.
AidanAK47
So Steam is just going to let everything on the site now. I mena I suppose it would be good to just drop that stupid no porn rule but well opens the floodgates to some rather bad consequences.
Vonter
Man, talking about Ranma also reminded me of Ghost Sweeper Mikami, that one imo had a similar type of format in humor. It had action, suspense and wackiness. That show asked the weird implications. Like the one time a side character ate a cake that make him regress back in time being aware of the curse. Or a ghost that could control your dreams and psyche. Or a demon that make you steadily shrink
Lenlo
Well thats one Isekai down, as "Nidome no Jinsei wo Isekai de" gets cancelled. Yay?
Lenlo
Yeah. Once you remember its from 1970, it becomes even more impressive. And you can see where Megalo Box is trying to get some of the grainieness back into its own style.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I love how they dramatically used stills in these really old shows, Dezaki also did that very well. From what I'm gathering from these clips is that this is melodrama earned/deserved and well executed.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Reading coments on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SRF0S3ni2g that the mangaka was originally going to have him survive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Very bleak artstyle and despite the age of the drawings/animation the show look like its strong enough to carry an impact.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: @4:40 or so, the sudden realization.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: No bother, managed to get the link working regardless.
Lenlo
*Sigh*
Lenlo
Ah dangit. Textbox messed up my link somehow.

[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXYbpnONnzw

That"] should work
Lenlo
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXYbpnONnzw&t=353s

You"] can see how alot of the characters repeat themselves from Ashita no Joe
Lenlo
If its done anywhere near as well as Ashita no Joe, which Megalo Box is based off of, then it will be great. Joe's death is still one of the best endings ever for me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I can see it getting me if done right.
Lenlo
Just sayin
Lenlo
90% chance Joe dies in Megalo Box
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of shampoo actually having kittens and then owning them in her human form.
Kaiser-Eoghan
This is weirding me out OmO
Kaiser-Eoghan
I actually went further thinking about it, if the switches kept flipping back constantly during sex.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And theres the realization, I've actually overthought this to such a point, its sunk in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I also remember discussing this with a friend when I was young and we came up with that the female forms could potentially be infertile.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The ridiculous shit I thought of as a kid.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I mean I actually literally imagined the baby sticking out of him and looking like it got fused with him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Imagination has gone in a dark, perverse direction =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I actually meant as in when the baby is halfway out , then transformation occurs.
AidanAK47
Oh wait Ranma requires hot water to change back.
AidanAK47
In the case of Ranma and childbirth, that's impossible. Basically it would require Ranma to not get cold water on him for nine months as if he turned back into a guy his organs would switch and the child would die. Same with any other gender bender, they would need to remain female for nine months till birth. Switch once, and kids a dead clump of cells.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd sometimes love to be like he is now, in his case re-discovering anime all over again.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Showed him clips of utena and his reaction was "whoah this weird lookin' I have to watch this show "
Kaiser-Eoghan
We are in disagreement on Eva, with him preferring the series and I the rebuilds.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I tried to get a friend of mine to watch log horizon because he was really into online games....but he went off and watched sword art instead =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I though he hated re zero, but it was only beetlguse and the first few episodes, he hates Emilia and presumably prefers Rem. He was the one who actually kind of pushed me to watch made in abyss, though he thought it was semi-exploitative.
Kaiser-Eoghan
No game no life kind of disgusted him though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Working on convincing him to watch girls last tour and houseki. He seems to love boku no hero academia.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I even got him to play doki doki literature club, he wanted to punch the screen for the first hour, then was pleasently disturbed when shit got real.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also believe he may be planning to watch steins gate. He finished Kabaneri of the iron fortress although I dropped it hard.
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