Posted by psgels on 30 October 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



It’s episodes like this that really remind me why I’m still such a fan of anime. This episode was just… beyond awesome. Major spoilers coming up, do not read this entry if you haven’t seen the episode, and for the rest I can say little else than:

What the Fuck!?

I sort-of suspected that this episode would end with a bang, but this kind of a bang… I never saw coming: freakin’ Beatrice set everything up. The reason why her acting felt so forced was that it was SUPPOSED to be acting: there’s no way Battler was going to notice, and instead Beatrice started playing the innocent victim, while creating a new villain in Evatrice. Holy crap, talk about an awesome plot twist!

I’m now starting to see why Beatrice was supposed to be such an awesome character. The sheer cruelty in which she continuously keeps thinking of scenarios to fool Battler, and does it every time, and at the same time you can see that she isn’t perfect. My guess is that she originally didn’t plan to include the Evatrice plot in this arc, and instead just tried to use her Teacher to confuse Battler, but when he cornered her (when Ronove interrupted her when she was about to give away an important clue) and they went into that emergency meeting of theirs, they decided to go for such an elaborate illusion.

On top of that, Beatrice seems to have two intentions that contradict each other: her first goal is to “win” from Battler: make him acknowledge that she’s a witch. However, on top of that it’s also her “job” to “win” the game endlessly, and she seems to be under the orders of Lambdadelta. While seemingly contradicting each other, could it be that the first goal of hers is also just a red herring? That she simply already is a mage, but needs to keep the Ushinomiya-family in that endless loop of theirs for some reason? That could explain why Battler’s sister suddenly popped up as a major player.

Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa. It’s interesting how Evatrice confirmed that Jessica isn’t one of the murderers, and neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo. However, that doesn’t go for Krauss and Rosa. In fact, while I don’t think that Krauss was the murderer in the first two arcs (perhaps he got killed off before he could get started), but he actually seems like a pretty likely suspect this arc: remember how he said that surprisingly nice comment about how he regrets having been so mean to his family members? After Beatrice’s act and all, I don’t believe one word from that anymore.
Rating: **** (Fantastic)
And remember, I reserve the right to delete posts that talk about what happens in the novel after this episode

42 Responses

  1. illusion says:

    Wow, just updated the page and there’s 18, right after watching it.

    I just have to say that I felt just as trolled as Battler did, jesus christ.

    And Ange is olev.

  2. Brazil says:

    This episode was just amazing. Before it started I was thinking about how I’ve never changed my opinion of a character from bad to good so quickly. That heel face turn face turn heel, was pulled off so superbly. I can’t wait to see what happens next. “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was making people think he didn’t exist”

  3. Rika says:

    Actually Pgels the only survivor is Eva. In this episode Eva shot Battler. and Krauss and Rosa are still dead. The reason there seen to be alive (along with all of the family in the second to last scene) was thanks to Beatrice. The only person to survive this time was Eva.

  4. Doug Napoleone says:

    Eva was the only survivor, the rest was an illusion to make Battler sign. In fact, we see that ’12 years later’? Eva is on her deathbed and hands over the ring to Angie-Betrice. Not sure why Eva aged soo much in 12 years, nor why Angie-Betrice does not look 12 years older than when Battler ‘thought of her’ an episode ago; but whatever.

    There was quite a bit of emphasis put on the Angie-‘Betrice’ part, specifically stating that only another ‘Betrice’ could defeat her.

    I take all this to mean that at the end of this arc, Eva wins all, she killed at a minimum Battler and 3 others, so we now know 1 killer, and the new player is brought in from 12 years in the future down one potential timeline. *brain starts to hurt again*

  5. blkmage says:

    Witches don’t refo~rm☆

  6. chounokoe says:

    !!I’m avoiding any game-content here and restrict myself purely to anime-content!!

    Just a little something (it’s not that horrible to get a bit lost in Umineko at times), as Rika already pointed it out Eva is the only one to survive this gameboard.

    Krauss was found last episode, dead, next to his wife Natsuhi in the rose garden, after they were strangled by the Siestas in the guesthouse.
    Rosa was impaled through the back of her head with a part of the fence in the rose garden in episode 15 after Beato decided to step into Eva-Beatrices endless killing.

    Battler got killed by Eva, or at least that’s what we see after Beato destroyed Eva Beatrice this Episode. Right before the Eyecatcher he accuses her of being the culprit and she pities him saying he was a bit too slow, raises her gun and BANG.

    What happened to Jessica, that is right, we don’t know…we just know that Beato was allowed to stop guarding the room where she hid her…so if Eva really is the culprit, I think it’s safe to assume she did not only shoot Battler.
    But the question remains, who killed Nanjo.

    @psgels: Just a question at the side…do you normaly avoid previews or do you watch them? It’s of course a bit more difficult to guess in Umineko’s case, because they only do web-previews…even though I like that because it saves a good minute if not more in every episode!!
    And yeah, I’m asking because I’m really looking forward to seeing your opinion of the next arc.

  7. Camario says:

    Krauss has already been killed along with his wife, unless either of them are faking their deaths but there’s no real clue to support that right now. On the other hand, we never saw anyone kill Jessica either, but the glimpse of the 1998 world implies that everyone other than Eva did in fact die.

    Still, I thought this was a great episode. The deception was almost perfect, although it did become blatantly obvious moments before its final confirmation and the interruption by Ange.

    Speaking of which, as a new character she seems to be in an interesting position as the last member of her doomed family but does come off as something of a plot device at the moment. I hope we learn more about her.

  8. Zaric says:

    I knew from the instant Battler slapped Beatrice and she had such a severe reaction that she was going to pull off a self sacrifice maneuver, it just made sense. It’s pretty awesome that she was just faking all of that.

    The fact that they then showed Eva as the real killer and then had a 12 years later segment where Eva on hear deathbed is all screwed up, that’s damned cool.

    In sort, this episode validated the rest of the series up until now, it’s fun.

  9. Yeah, this episode was just the best! I’m pretty sure that there’s really a bigger overeaching gameboard, being played by Bernkastel and Lambadelta, with Beato, Evatrice, and Virgilia included among the game pieces (maybe all the furniture too).

    I don’t know where I’m at with the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy thing but I read that Ryukishi07 said that we shouldn’t discount the fantasy too much…so I generally still try to consider that both may exist.

  10. Megaman0 says:

    Man at the start of the episode I was so pissed off…I was like “I’m only going to finish the show because I’m curious to what happens in the end” But thank god that twist saved it all, I thought it was stupid how they ruined Beatrice her character but instead they made her just a million times more awesome. Can’t wait for kungfu girl with skirt that magically conceals panties and what her role in all of this will be.

  11. Anon says:

    @psgels: You should read this short story written by the writer of Umineko about Ange before the next episode as it sets up alot of things

  12. n says:

    @psgels: I would advise against reading the story linked in post 11, actually… It spoils some characters from Episode 4, not to mention there are a bunch of other short stories on that page that are pretty spoilery too.

  13. atr says:

    @11
    tanabata should be read after episode 4, imo.

    why the hell would you spoil the troll?

  14. MagicianMan says:

    Realy? Am I the only one who didn’t by that “har har look at me I’m soooo evil” act at the end? That quick-pained-expression-to-over-exaggerated-evil-laugh could have come straight from the master of pretending to be evil,Lelouch Lamperouge, himself.

    It just doesn’t add up. Sure the stuff she said could have been an act, but what about her internal dialog? Surly there was no need to act in her own thoughts was there?

    I mean it definitely looked like she set him up, but then again I spent the first half of Higurashi thinking that a curse from someone who would be hard pressed to antagonize a fly was responsible.

    I’m not taking anything in this show at face value for a second. There’s more going on with this than we can see.

  15. Taiyaki says:

    Eva was the only survivor of the third game. It’s actually the first time someone manages to get out of the island alive.

  16. MagicianMan says:

    Surely*

  17. Anon says:

    @12 and 13: Tanabata was released with Episode 3

  18. PL says:

    Well I said it last week and I’ll say it again, Umineko is the best thing on right now. Sure, Aoi Bungaku is more literary, Armed Librarians more layered, and Darker than Black has better characters, but Umineko devours them all when it comes to sheer keep me on the edge of my seat, eyes glued to the screen, damn its over already and I have to wait a whole ‘nother week storytelling awesomeness. Psgels has talked in the past about shows with an X-factor. Umineko has X-Y-Z factor. Is it an instant classic, no, it isn’t. But its a clear reminder of why anime is my favorite story-telling medium, because only in anime can you put something like this together. And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has. Mayhaps a day will come when VN technology can accomplish and even surpass the limitations imposed on a passive medium like anime, but until they can make an active medium that is completely animated, and reasonably linear enough to truly tell a story, without making concessions to game-play/animation, anime reigns supreme.

  19. evolstar says:

    Awesome episode. I was totally blown away. Without doubt it is the best episode yet! I’m really looking forward to the ending of this series.

  20. Reltair says:

    Shoot, I was fooled too. I thought Beato might have turned good, but she still seems as insane and cruel as ever. =/

  21. n says:

    @17 no it wasn’t, it was released just this past June, well after Episode 4. Which is reasonable, because it doesn’t make sense before Episode 4.

    It’s a cool story, but you can recommend it later, ok?

  22. Kamikazesim says:

    That was worth the past 6 weeks of build-up. Ever since episode 11, Umineko has been a great successor to Higurashi.

    Beatrice denying the witches in red, Battler crying, and out of nowhere, Battler being in front of Eva, with the shotgun, admitting she was the murderer (with the creepy look in her face) was such a perfect Halloween moment. That scene gave me chills.

    The title “Swindles” could have spoiled the second act of the episode, but I was so engrossed with the episode, I paid no attention to it.

    Seeing “Evatrice” dominate Beatrice at the beginning (leaving nothing but Beatrice’s heart) finally made me believe that Beatrice actually had good intentions and really just wanted Battler to acknowledge her.

    My disbelief that she was good was because where could the series go from Beatrice being nice after the way she acted in the first 2 arcs?

    Sure enough, 10 minutes later, I was right to begin with, but the creators finally hooked me. It was more fun being fooled anyway.

    MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes.

  23. Westlo says:

    “And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has.”

    You have no idea how compelling and moving the VN version of these events were. I rate this episode a 9/10, 4.5/5 etc and if it had 5 scenes with an extra minute it would get a perfect score.. but even than.. it’s nothing compared to the VN events.

    The VN has far more emotional investment in it due to the length of scenes. You’re moved by the way Eva Beatrice treats Beato during the siesta attacks and while Beato tries to find a clue. Imo Eva Beatrice’s red web is still by far the most impressive use of red in the VNs and the anime version was nowhere near it.

  24. T_I says:

    It seems to be that Eva was working with the true culprit before things went wrong and her family got murdered.

    After that Eva had a falling out with the true culprit. Eva somehow managed to kill the true culprit but she herself was at that point of questionable sanity.

    As for the true culprit of this arc? I’m guessing it was Kyrie. This is also the prime reason why Eva killed Battler. It was out of revenge.

  25. Grhasha says:

    The thing I don’t understand is – what are the implications of Beatrice’s denying the existence of witches with red text? Sure, it may have been said to fool Battler, but there’s no way the statement was fake, right?
    As for the episode – yeah, it was definitely the best in the series so far. I had a problem with the current arc because I just couldn’t believe Beatrice’s sudden change of heart. I was waiting for a discovery like this to put everything back in place.

  26. PL says:

    Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.

    Grhasha, she made Battler cover his ears, so he never heard the existence of witches denied in red, therefore, within the confines of the game of wits between her and Battler, it is like it never happened.

  27. Anon says:

    @25 (Grhasha): Can you prove she even said that witches don’t exist? I didn’t see any red text.

    I don’t believe that Eva is the true culprit. That’s just one of the conclusions Battler came up with before his death (we are given no reasoning). Only thing that is certain is that Eva did kill Battler. But as Eva-Beatrice pointed out, Eva wasn’t directly involved in the murder of Nanjo.

    I believe the true culprit(s?) is the one responsible for the sending of the letters and the murders of the initial six. After that everyone else feels like killing their family because they can only suspect the others if they believe that they are only 18 people on the island.

    I hope the next episodes bring similar mindtwists.

  28. battler says:

    Only one thing

    “Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa”

    Why do you think rosa and krauss were alive? they were show and specify in red THEY ARE DEAD. And battler and jessica are missing THE ONLY COMFIRMED SURVIVOR FROM ALL THE ARCS IS EVA.

  29. Rika says:

    @Battler

    Actually Battler is most certainly dead. Eva shot him in the episode. Jessica on the other hand is ‘missing’ although the most likely senario is that she’s also dead.

  30. cad says:

    I was really looking forward to seeing anime-only fans’ faces after this episodes :) When I first saw the look on Beatrice’s face at that moment, I was completely creeped out. When playing I completely fell for it; but I realized the scheme when the contract was shown, and I was literally screaming at Battler not to sign it!

    @Kamikazesim: “@MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes”: I was wondering about that too. There is something that might suffice as an explanation later on but I won’t say more than that…

  31. @Kamikazesim, MagicianMan, Cad: my boyfriend and I agree that Beato’s evil switch seemed questionable. Maybe it’s that she intended to pretend to be “good” for a while, but after she started, she did genuinely develop some feelings of regret and caring, but her evilness just won out in the end. She also couldn’t switch sides because she’s playing in the service of Lambadelta, as we saw later. In fact, I wondered about the purpose of that conversation: was Lambadelta questioning Beato about her eternal service because she was worried that Beato’s softer feelings might be somewhat genuine?

  32. Westlo says:

    Beatrice probably said something along the lines of.. “Hey Eva-B… you’re just a pawn I made, lolololol, dissipate”

    “Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.”

    Ridiculous, you’re saying a book can’t pull you in? A good author can draw you into his world….

  33. Cad says:

    @Jenny: I think you’re probably right, both about Beatrice and about Lambdadelta.

    Without spoiling anything, I’ll say that Beatrice is a superb actor, and this isn’t the only time she acted opposite to what she thought (or “felt”, if you could say that about her…). For this reason it is very hard to get an idea of what’s going on in her mind, and only rarely do we get a glimpse of it. But I think that, if there’s one thing that we do know about her, is that she is cruel in a childish way; for reasons mentioned in these last few episodes. This makes it even hard to judge, if she’s truly evil or just childish (the next arc, in many ways, deals with this).

    About Lambdadelta, she has reasons to want Beatrice to keep up the cruel and heartless appearance, and probably wanted to “motivate” her to continue being as such, to prevent her from becoming softer even by a little. But as mentioned before, Beatrice is such a superb actress she might’ve even trolled Lambdadelta to believe she’s becoming softer. For all we know she could be playing us all. So I don’t really know if Lambdadelta’s “encouragement” was necessary, or if encouraging Beatrice was even her purpose – as with Higurashi, another piece by the same author, things make sense in a completely different way after you understand what’s going on behind the scenes… (to see what I mean, you can rewatch the first and second arcs).

  34. Solaris says:

    I can’t force myself to like this anime. They continue to throw in characters but the real focus of this anime should be the murders and how and why they were committed.
    This board of murders has yet no meaning. It’s just a blood feast of sacrifices to announce Beatrice’s might in an endless fanservice. So it doesn’t matter who dies and why, there’s no meaning in the closed rooms.
    (Meta)Battler is also yet useless as everything he dare say is destroyed by red speech.
    It’s all so useless. I just want to see what they put out of the cilynder at the end of this circus.
    And, by the way, Higurashi was 100 times better.

  35. PL says:

    Westlo, yes a book can, but there is a reason that lots of people dont like comic books, manga, and graphic novels as well as VN’s, even avid readers, and its because the combination of text and imagery along with our modern tv and film trained minds, creates discord in our suspension of disbelief as we switch back and forth from one to the other. My degrees are in Literature and Philosophy, so I love a good book, but when I’m reading say an Umberto Eco novel, I quickly forget that I’m reading at all and simply have a story playing out in my mind. With a comic or even the visual novels I’ve tried, I cant do that because my eyes keep getting drawn back and forth between text and image and I’m unable to completely sink into what I’m watching. And that is why anime is perfectly poised to create worlds that can be as fully imagined as a book, with as many speculative and fantastic elements as it wants, and yet like film, there are no disparate elements.

  36. Solaris says:

    I forgot to say a couple of things:

    1) Jessica is closed in a “closed room” complete with magic circle and numbers last time we saw her.
    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6856/uminekononakukoroni181.png
    Just another unexplained closed room murder.

    2) Beatrice let Battler cover his ears before saying something that apparently dissolved everybody in the room. We don’t know what, and we saw no red text. Another acting/lie?

    3) Eva (real one) shoots Battler (not meta), revealing she’s the culprit. Wow that’s a real deus ex machina!

    It were nice If the arcs were resolved something that way. Something like in the first arc Kinzo wants to revive her mistress and sets up a game of sacrifices. In the second it was all the servitor’s fault who wanted to revive an ancient cult and in the third Eva wants the headship of the family but ends destroying all. Every arc should have been explained in some way to keep the events sustained by some logic, eventually implying the existence of some sort of exotic element called magic. But the blatant use of magic, demons and witches appearing here and there just ruinde the mystey atmosphere, reducing the events in a showroom of gore.
    Well just said far mor than just a couple of things, i return in the shadows, as i’m the one who seem to dislike (or not to undestand) this show.

  37. PL says:

    Solaris, what we are seeing is the story as told by Beatrice who wants Battler to believe that is how it is happening. Remember, very very little made sense in the first season of Higurashi either. It was season 2 that finally started answering questions. I will grant that each arc in Higurashi had more internal logic than each individual arc in Umineko, but that logic got completely overturned so that by the last arc we come to realize we’ve had everything completely wrong. In this show, each arc really only makes sense in light of the entire series. But as someone mentioned above, each arc also makes more sense of the previous arc so that re-watching them causes us to understand the events differently. Battler is going to continue to lose round by round until he unravels everything. Because as LambdaDelta made extra clear, if Beatrice loses a round she loses for good. Whereas, Battler can keep denying magic until he finally wins. Also, Beatrice made all that stuff about saving Jessica and everything up to trick Battler into giving up, so that door probably wasnt sealed and Eva could just walk in and blow Jessica away after dealing with Battler. And why was Eva shooting Battler in this arc a Deus ex machina? If none of the magic happened in that last arc, as it would be if Beatrice had really denied the existence of witches, then Eva is the only one who has been properly foreshadowed as the villain. She had a horrible childhood at the hands of Kinzo and her siblings who she hated, she’s both ambitious and greedy, and she’s psychologically unstable. So it made absolute sense that when Beatrice wanted to create the illusion that she had destroyed herself and Eva-trice, and removed all magic from the game, that she would present it as if Eva killed Battler. Also, Nanjo’s death is finally a puzzle that isnt a closed room puzzle. Instead, it’s that Jessica is incapacitated, Nanjo is murdered at point-blank range, and Battler and Eva are together and everyone else is supposed to be dead, so who killed him?

  38. ebisu says:

    In any case I can’t understand what really goes on with the murders in this third arc. First the incomplete resolution of the six closed rooms, Nanjo surely has some kind of relation with it cause he wasnt in the room when Bea’s story. Kinzo’s death by fire also. Maria’s death is strange(strangled from behind by the prints on her neck). Rosa is dead with the head impaled but she didnt shoot to resist. Krauss and his wife die being strangled with ropes apparently, but they were together in that moment so how did manage the assassin to kill one without the intervention of the other? Why George is with Shannon’s body. The numbers of the door. Nanjo’s killed but not by Eva so the unknown killer should have a reason to target him. Most probably it is Jessica who kills him, it is stated in red “she didn’t commit murder” and Nanjo died by homicide at point blank so, she killed him by accident? And finally the ring(looks like a clue item in this series), I dont know why Eva has it in the end if Kinzo throws it to the raining (or keeps it maybe).
    Just wondering but I hope everything becomes clear.

  39. lalala says:

    sadly, there are no answers yet T_T

  40. Ken says:

    The beauty of the VN genre is that it allows one or a small group of talented person(s) to create a middle ground between a book and an anime.

    To get a book published, you need to satisfy the publisher first before it’s released out to the world. There might be a good story behind it, but if you can’t appease the publisher, it’ll never see daylight. Same goes true for manga and light novels.

    OTOH, in order to make an anime, you need a huge budget and a group of staff, and even a sponsor to air it. Well these days one could make a brilliant anime like Makoto Shinkai all on his own, but not every has such talented animation skills.

    But a VN like Umineko, all you need is one genius named Ryukishi07 and one programmer named BT (and may he RIP) to be released directly to the public. No middleman, no connections, no need for a huge budget.

    So if you like Higurashi and Umineko, think first why this was animated in the first place. It all came from a doujin (amateur) visual novel game.

  41. PL says:

    Ken, Thanks, that does make sense, and I’m not dissing VN’s, I’m just saying that with the current state of technology, anime, for me, is the medium with the most potential for bringing a story to its fullest expression.

  42. heine says:

    I don’t think Beato was fully trolling Battler.

    When Battler asked her if she was truly lying, there was a shot of Beato pausing, and gritting her teeth before she smiled and outright admitted that Battler got trolled. She may have conjured up a brilliant plan, but I also believe she meant some of the things she said to Battler during the entire time.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
Anonymous670441
Gente - Ristorante no Hitobito
Kaiser Eoghan
If anything its the hate I have for certain characters that makes it more effective.
Kaiser Eoghan
The obsessional level of attachment is just uncomfortable to me, I don't want to get THAT attached to a non-real character.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its literally just a case of "Okay lets look at this picture of this character, she looks interesting, no feelings or expression from me, apply this fetish, fap, get release, go home. "
Kaiser Eoghan
Or drooling/dribbling/heavy breathing/grinning over the characters. I abhor alot of the anime girls I find attractive or am indifferent, even when looking at ecchi/hentai drawings I'm straight and clinical with it.
Kaiser Eoghan
I mean to each their own. But I really hate the level of emotion/devotion to moe/finding the characters attractive. Such as celebrating their birthdays, going on about how cute/hot they are, how important it is that they're virgins. Or not being being self-aware of how irritating the characters are.
Lenlo
Anime hipster is pretty accurate. His general treatment of the current state of anime is annoying, as is his obsession with moe. Maybe its cause I cant stand moe most of the time, but it bugs me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: Essentially my brothers view on digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I don't usually feel the need to correct errors in your reviews as the errors are generally un-important, but I think you meant to say apprentices rather than appearences in the Rakugo review, just bringing that up as it felt like kind of a throw off.
AidanAK47
Which is kinda like saying Madoka wasn't a magical girl deconstruction because Sailor Moon and Nanoha had dark elements too.
AidanAK47
Went and read the reddit comments on it and seems I was right on the money.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, He's basically a anime hipster. For example, I saw a thumbnail of his which had Saitama on it and below it "Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?" and I thought "Okay, he's going to go on about how OPM isn't subversive and then list a bunch of arbitrary examples in an attempt to redefine what is actually subversive"
Lenlo
I have lots of issues with Digibro. Dude has some good points, but other very horrible ones. Some issues he feels strongly about and gets kinda biased on imo.
Anonymous669202
acca looks visually interesting, and I personally really dig this kind of show, but it seems that it's definitely not for everyone
AidanAK47
Time to live up to my word. Four posts incoming.
AidanAK47
Man, Little witch Academia was so good. I disagree with the whole Digibro thing about being able to recognise a great show in it's first episode but watching this makes me think that this really is going to be something special.
AidanAK47
Alright, gonna put in effort today and have 3 or 4 first impressions posts done. That should knock out near half the season.
Kaiser Eoghan
Had a flip through handshakers. Garish is the word I'd use to describe it visually, it takes you out of the show.
Topgavin
ASuperMario From the first minute I can already tell it's by the same people that made K. Those colour filters and the extremely jarring/obvious city CGI is unmistakable.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, literally makes my hands shaking. It's an abosolute mess. Highly recommended to check it out because it's so terrible it's great to watch
Vonter212
Yeah, and it's also a literal woman in refrigerator plot device, since that the thing that pushes the story forward.
Masky
I'd say that having to hide your sister's body in fridge would count as daaaaaaark and edgy, but when the body is wearing only underwear, and for some reason main character put metal things in fridge to keep body standing(I guess to not knock fridge open from inside?) I think it goes to "exploitation" you are talking about
Vonter212
@Masky - Did someone said doing dark things for drama? That's the bread and butter to get despair. Unless it's for the sake of perversion. Then it's just exploitation.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Masky: His other works dead tube and scumbag go further in the unhinged regard.
Masky
*relies on easy "let's do [x dark thing] for drama!" thing
Masky
Geez, Mayonaka no X Giten is fricking disturbing/disgusting ._. I'm pretty sure that writing relies on e, but I can't help but think mangaka is trying to make corpses sexy.
SuperMario
I found Onihei to be quite good, actually one of the most solid new episode I watched this new season. Guys, check them out
Vonter
I just hope it doesn't fall into the same misstep Kabaneri or Inuyasha or Bleach fall by making a villain so over the top that it crossed the line of not having a satisfying downfall.
Anonymous657941
@Vonter I think they just moved on. I lost interest rather quickly and I guess even the fans did that at some point, like with some other long-running series. There is much more new and more direct "fujo" stuff out there, many of them probably switched. Don't know what happens in the manga but maybe the story got worse or contained things some people didn't like.
Vonter
January will be loli dictator month (for me) :p. World Conquest Zvezda Plot, Youjo Senki: Saga of Tanya the Evil (new), Seraph of the End. For some reason I stumble into three curious series with little power hungry girls. If I can ask, why did Owari Seraph's hype died, I remember back it was mentioned more often. It still has the fujoshi fanart but still, I don't see people bringing it up.
SuperMario
@CATski: well, if you didn't like its first 3 episodes I dont think the rest gonna change your mind. Have you finished Erased then? How did you like it?
SuperMario
But I understand it's difficult to speak in front of camera, get some time to get used to it
SuperMario
@kaiser: I won't commend on poem as I'm terrible at it myself but younneed to work more on presentation Kaiser. Small little things like looking directly at the camera or say "thanks for listening" in the end can connect you to the audience better
Anonymous657071
Ok. I'll give the thing another chance. *clicks torrent* XD. CATski.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Topgavin: You might like centaur no nanami if you like demi-chan.
Kaiser Eoghan
Damn...repeated myself =<
Kaiser Eoghan
There are these things called slam sessions done in bars where people get up and read out stuff in front of a crowd and read stuff out. Actually watching rakugo made me think about practicing for that kind of thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: the video I did was of me reading out a short piece of writing I did, a poem. lol I uploaded it to the wrong youtube account too I just realized =P
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBZ2hBDBYs&t=11s
I"] was recording this from my mothers laptops inbuilt cam while reading off my desktop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I think it's a good idea for you to try out reviewing movies/stuffs in youtube channel. I'll be very interesting to listen to them
SuperMario
@Topgavin: Agree. Demi-chan was so charming. Definately one of my favorite so far this new season
Topgavin
Demi-chan's first episode was good. Like, really really good. That blonde-haired girl was hilarious, the teacher-student relationship between the MC and the girls is really interesting and the social/practical problems the demi's face make it look like my favorite show so far.
CATski
Ah... ok. Is it really that good or it's just one of those "artsy" animes that tend to get overrated by their ardent fans? I didnt find the rakugo bit interesting.... probably the weakest aspect of the show for me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Why did I read that chapter. Why did I do that to myself.
Kaiser Eoghan
Admittedly yes the premise is not for everyone, but if you stick with it, the flashback arc had some good character work in there.
CATski
Rakugo has a season 2? I watched ep 1 - 3 of season 1 then promptly deleted it. The loud "yankee" dude was annoying. And the anime was boring.
Kaiser Eoghan
Oh man, I've been thinking lately of trying to start some kind of youtube channel. I did a few trial run videos. Its much much harder than it looks, didn't realize how nervy being in front of a video camera was.
Kaiser Eoghan
*a declining art and rakygo halls are closing down
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