Posted by psgels on 30 October 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



It’s episodes like this that really remind me why I’m still such a fan of anime. This episode was just… beyond awesome. Major spoilers coming up, do not read this entry if you haven’t seen the episode, and for the rest I can say little else than:

What the Fuck!?

I sort-of suspected that this episode would end with a bang, but this kind of a bang… I never saw coming: freakin’ Beatrice set everything up. The reason why her acting felt so forced was that it was SUPPOSED to be acting: there’s no way Battler was going to notice, and instead Beatrice started playing the innocent victim, while creating a new villain in Evatrice. Holy crap, talk about an awesome plot twist!

I’m now starting to see why Beatrice was supposed to be such an awesome character. The sheer cruelty in which she continuously keeps thinking of scenarios to fool Battler, and does it every time, and at the same time you can see that she isn’t perfect. My guess is that she originally didn’t plan to include the Evatrice plot in this arc, and instead just tried to use her Teacher to confuse Battler, but when he cornered her (when Ronove interrupted her when she was about to give away an important clue) and they went into that emergency meeting of theirs, they decided to go for such an elaborate illusion.

On top of that, Beatrice seems to have two intentions that contradict each other: her first goal is to “win” from Battler: make him acknowledge that she’s a witch. However, on top of that it’s also her “job” to “win” the game endlessly, and she seems to be under the orders of Lambdadelta. While seemingly contradicting each other, could it be that the first goal of hers is also just a red herring? That she simply already is a mage, but needs to keep the Ushinomiya-family in that endless loop of theirs for some reason? That could explain why Battler’s sister suddenly popped up as a major player.

Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa. It’s interesting how Evatrice confirmed that Jessica isn’t one of the murderers, and neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo. However, that doesn’t go for Krauss and Rosa. In fact, while I don’t think that Krauss was the murderer in the first two arcs (perhaps he got killed off before he could get started), but he actually seems like a pretty likely suspect this arc: remember how he said that surprisingly nice comment about how he regrets having been so mean to his family members? After Beatrice’s act and all, I don’t believe one word from that anymore.
Rating: **** (Fantastic)
And remember, I reserve the right to delete posts that talk about what happens in the novel after this episode

42 Responses

  1. illusion says:

    Wow, just updated the page and there’s 18, right after watching it.

    I just have to say that I felt just as trolled as Battler did, jesus christ.

    And Ange is olev.

  2. Brazil says:

    This episode was just amazing. Before it started I was thinking about how I’ve never changed my opinion of a character from bad to good so quickly. That heel face turn face turn heel, was pulled off so superbly. I can’t wait to see what happens next. “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was making people think he didn’t exist”

  3. Rika says:

    Actually Pgels the only survivor is Eva. In this episode Eva shot Battler. and Krauss and Rosa are still dead. The reason there seen to be alive (along with all of the family in the second to last scene) was thanks to Beatrice. The only person to survive this time was Eva.

  4. Doug Napoleone says:

    Eva was the only survivor, the rest was an illusion to make Battler sign. In fact, we see that ’12 years later’? Eva is on her deathbed and hands over the ring to Angie-Betrice. Not sure why Eva aged soo much in 12 years, nor why Angie-Betrice does not look 12 years older than when Battler ‘thought of her’ an episode ago; but whatever.

    There was quite a bit of emphasis put on the Angie-‘Betrice’ part, specifically stating that only another ‘Betrice’ could defeat her.

    I take all this to mean that at the end of this arc, Eva wins all, she killed at a minimum Battler and 3 others, so we now know 1 killer, and the new player is brought in from 12 years in the future down one potential timeline. *brain starts to hurt again*

  5. blkmage says:

    Witches don’t refo~rm☆

  6. chounokoe says:

    !!I’m avoiding any game-content here and restrict myself purely to anime-content!!

    Just a little something (it’s not that horrible to get a bit lost in Umineko at times), as Rika already pointed it out Eva is the only one to survive this gameboard.

    Krauss was found last episode, dead, next to his wife Natsuhi in the rose garden, after they were strangled by the Siestas in the guesthouse.
    Rosa was impaled through the back of her head with a part of the fence in the rose garden in episode 15 after Beato decided to step into Eva-Beatrices endless killing.

    Battler got killed by Eva, or at least that’s what we see after Beato destroyed Eva Beatrice this Episode. Right before the Eyecatcher he accuses her of being the culprit and she pities him saying he was a bit too slow, raises her gun and BANG.

    What happened to Jessica, that is right, we don’t know…we just know that Beato was allowed to stop guarding the room where she hid her…so if Eva really is the culprit, I think it’s safe to assume she did not only shoot Battler.
    But the question remains, who killed Nanjo.

    @psgels: Just a question at the side…do you normaly avoid previews or do you watch them? It’s of course a bit more difficult to guess in Umineko’s case, because they only do web-previews…even though I like that because it saves a good minute if not more in every episode!!
    And yeah, I’m asking because I’m really looking forward to seeing your opinion of the next arc.

  7. Camario says:

    Krauss has already been killed along with his wife, unless either of them are faking their deaths but there’s no real clue to support that right now. On the other hand, we never saw anyone kill Jessica either, but the glimpse of the 1998 world implies that everyone other than Eva did in fact die.

    Still, I thought this was a great episode. The deception was almost perfect, although it did become blatantly obvious moments before its final confirmation and the interruption by Ange.

    Speaking of which, as a new character she seems to be in an interesting position as the last member of her doomed family but does come off as something of a plot device at the moment. I hope we learn more about her.

  8. Zaric says:

    I knew from the instant Battler slapped Beatrice and she had such a severe reaction that she was going to pull off a self sacrifice maneuver, it just made sense. It’s pretty awesome that she was just faking all of that.

    The fact that they then showed Eva as the real killer and then had a 12 years later segment where Eva on hear deathbed is all screwed up, that’s damned cool.

    In sort, this episode validated the rest of the series up until now, it’s fun.

  9. Yeah, this episode was just the best! I’m pretty sure that there’s really a bigger overeaching gameboard, being played by Bernkastel and Lambadelta, with Beato, Evatrice, and Virgilia included among the game pieces (maybe all the furniture too).

    I don’t know where I’m at with the anti-mystery/anti-fantasy thing but I read that Ryukishi07 said that we shouldn’t discount the fantasy too much…so I generally still try to consider that both may exist.

  10. Megaman0 says:

    Man at the start of the episode I was so pissed off…I was like “I’m only going to finish the show because I’m curious to what happens in the end” But thank god that twist saved it all, I thought it was stupid how they ruined Beatrice her character but instead they made her just a million times more awesome. Can’t wait for kungfu girl with skirt that magically conceals panties and what her role in all of this will be.

  11. Anon says:

    @psgels: You should read this short story written by the writer of Umineko about Ange before the next episode as it sets up alot of things

  12. n says:

    @psgels: I would advise against reading the story linked in post 11, actually… It spoils some characters from Episode 4, not to mention there are a bunch of other short stories on that page that are pretty spoilery too.

  13. atr says:

    @11
    tanabata should be read after episode 4, imo.

    why the hell would you spoil the troll?

  14. MagicianMan says:

    Realy? Am I the only one who didn’t by that “har har look at me I’m soooo evil” act at the end? That quick-pained-expression-to-over-exaggerated-evil-laugh could have come straight from the master of pretending to be evil,Lelouch Lamperouge, himself.

    It just doesn’t add up. Sure the stuff she said could have been an act, but what about her internal dialog? Surly there was no need to act in her own thoughts was there?

    I mean it definitely looked like she set him up, but then again I spent the first half of Higurashi thinking that a curse from someone who would be hard pressed to antagonize a fly was responsible.

    I’m not taking anything in this show at face value for a second. There’s more going on with this than we can see.

  15. Taiyaki says:

    Eva was the only survivor of the third game. It’s actually the first time someone manages to get out of the island alive.

  16. MagicianMan says:

    Surely*

  17. Anon says:

    @12 and 13: Tanabata was released with Episode 3

  18. PL says:

    Well I said it last week and I’ll say it again, Umineko is the best thing on right now. Sure, Aoi Bungaku is more literary, Armed Librarians more layered, and Darker than Black has better characters, but Umineko devours them all when it comes to sheer keep me on the edge of my seat, eyes glued to the screen, damn its over already and I have to wait a whole ‘nother week storytelling awesomeness. Psgels has talked in the past about shows with an X-factor. Umineko has X-Y-Z factor. Is it an instant classic, no, it isn’t. But its a clear reminder of why anime is my favorite story-telling medium, because only in anime can you put something like this together. And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has. Mayhaps a day will come when VN technology can accomplish and even surpass the limitations imposed on a passive medium like anime, but until they can make an active medium that is completely animated, and reasonably linear enough to truly tell a story, without making concessions to game-play/animation, anime reigns supreme.

  19. evolstar says:

    Awesome episode. I was totally blown away. Without doubt it is the best episode yet! I’m really looking forward to the ending of this series.

  20. Reltair says:

    Shoot, I was fooled too. I thought Beato might have turned good, but she still seems as insane and cruel as ever. =/

  21. n says:

    @17 no it wasn’t, it was released just this past June, well after Episode 4. Which is reasonable, because it doesn’t make sense before Episode 4.

    It’s a cool story, but you can recommend it later, ok?

  22. Kamikazesim says:

    That was worth the past 6 weeks of build-up. Ever since episode 11, Umineko has been a great successor to Higurashi.

    Beatrice denying the witches in red, Battler crying, and out of nowhere, Battler being in front of Eva, with the shotgun, admitting she was the murderer (with the creepy look in her face) was such a perfect Halloween moment. That scene gave me chills.

    The title “Swindles” could have spoiled the second act of the episode, but I was so engrossed with the episode, I paid no attention to it.

    Seeing “Evatrice” dominate Beatrice at the beginning (leaving nothing but Beatrice’s heart) finally made me believe that Beatrice actually had good intentions and really just wanted Battler to acknowledge her.

    My disbelief that she was good was because where could the series go from Beatrice being nice after the way she acted in the first 2 arcs?

    Sure enough, 10 minutes later, I was right to begin with, but the creators finally hooked me. It was more fun being fooled anyway.

    MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes.

  23. Westlo says:

    “And yes, I realize its based on a visual novel, but a visual novel just cant take a story like this to its fullest potential the way the anime adaptation has.”

    You have no idea how compelling and moving the VN version of these events were. I rate this episode a 9/10, 4.5/5 etc and if it had 5 scenes with an extra minute it would get a perfect score.. but even than.. it’s nothing compared to the VN events.

    The VN has far more emotional investment in it due to the length of scenes. You’re moved by the way Eva Beatrice treats Beato during the siesta attacks and while Beato tries to find a clue. Imo Eva Beatrice’s red web is still by far the most impressive use of red in the VNs and the anime version was nowhere near it.

  24. T_I says:

    It seems to be that Eva was working with the true culprit before things went wrong and her family got murdered.

    After that Eva had a falling out with the true culprit. Eva somehow managed to kill the true culprit but she herself was at that point of questionable sanity.

    As for the true culprit of this arc? I’m guessing it was Kyrie. This is also the prime reason why Eva killed Battler. It was out of revenge.

  25. Grhasha says:

    The thing I don’t understand is – what are the implications of Beatrice’s denying the existence of witches with red text? Sure, it may have been said to fool Battler, but there’s no way the statement was fake, right?
    As for the episode – yeah, it was definitely the best in the series so far. I had a problem with the current arc because I just couldn’t believe Beatrice’s sudden change of heart. I was waiting for a discovery like this to put everything back in place.

  26. PL says:

    Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.

    Grhasha, she made Battler cover his ears, so he never heard the existence of witches denied in red, therefore, within the confines of the game of wits between her and Battler, it is like it never happened.

  27. Anon says:

    @25 (Grhasha): Can you prove she even said that witches don’t exist? I didn’t see any red text.

    I don’t believe that Eva is the true culprit. That’s just one of the conclusions Battler came up with before his death (we are given no reasoning). Only thing that is certain is that Eva did kill Battler. But as Eva-Beatrice pointed out, Eva wasn’t directly involved in the murder of Nanjo.

    I believe the true culprit(s?) is the one responsible for the sending of the letters and the murders of the initial six. After that everyone else feels like killing their family because they can only suspect the others if they believe that they are only 18 people on the island.

    I hope the next episodes bring similar mindtwists.

  28. battler says:

    Only one thing

    “Anyway, back to the murders: the survivors this time are Battler, Eva, Jessica, Krauss and Rosa”

    Why do you think rosa and krauss were alive? they were show and specify in red THEY ARE DEAD. And battler and jessica are missing THE ONLY COMFIRMED SURVIVOR FROM ALL THE ARCS IS EVA.

  29. Rika says:

    @Battler

    Actually Battler is most certainly dead. Eva shot him in the episode. Jessica on the other hand is ‘missing’ although the most likely senario is that she’s also dead.

  30. cad says:

    I was really looking forward to seeing anime-only fans’ faces after this episodes :) When I first saw the look on Beatrice’s face at that moment, I was completely creeped out. When playing I completely fell for it; but I realized the scheme when the contract was shown, and I was literally screaming at Battler not to sign it!

    @Kamikazesim: “@MagicianMan(14) might have a point though. Why animate the fact that she seemed like she was in pain/disappointed in telling the truth to Battler and then switch to evil at the end? Hopefully, there is something to that for the final 7 episodes”: I was wondering about that too. There is something that might suffice as an explanation later on but I won’t say more than that…

  31. @Kamikazesim, MagicianMan, Cad: my boyfriend and I agree that Beato’s evil switch seemed questionable. Maybe it’s that she intended to pretend to be “good” for a while, but after she started, she did genuinely develop some feelings of regret and caring, but her evilness just won out in the end. She also couldn’t switch sides because she’s playing in the service of Lambadelta, as we saw later. In fact, I wondered about the purpose of that conversation: was Lambadelta questioning Beato about her eternal service because she was worried that Beato’s softer feelings might be somewhat genuine?

  32. Westlo says:

    Beatrice probably said something along the lines of.. “Hey Eva-B… you’re just a pawn I made, lolololol, dissipate”

    “Westlo, but the thing is, as VN’s are now with the current state of technology, they cannot pull me in to suspend my disbelief because they aren’t fully animated, and too text based. And if my disbelief isn’t suspended, everything else is moot.”

    Ridiculous, you’re saying a book can’t pull you in? A good author can draw you into his world….

  33. Cad says:

    @Jenny: I think you’re probably right, both about Beatrice and about Lambdadelta.

    Without spoiling anything, I’ll say that Beatrice is a superb actor, and this isn’t the only time she acted opposite to what she thought (or “felt”, if you could say that about her…). For this reason it is very hard to get an idea of what’s going on in her mind, and only rarely do we get a glimpse of it. But I think that, if there’s one thing that we do know about her, is that she is cruel in a childish way; for reasons mentioned in these last few episodes. This makes it even hard to judge, if she’s truly evil or just childish (the next arc, in many ways, deals with this).

    About Lambdadelta, she has reasons to want Beatrice to keep up the cruel and heartless appearance, and probably wanted to “motivate” her to continue being as such, to prevent her from becoming softer even by a little. But as mentioned before, Beatrice is such a superb actress she might’ve even trolled Lambdadelta to believe she’s becoming softer. For all we know she could be playing us all. So I don’t really know if Lambdadelta’s “encouragement” was necessary, or if encouraging Beatrice was even her purpose – as with Higurashi, another piece by the same author, things make sense in a completely different way after you understand what’s going on behind the scenes… (to see what I mean, you can rewatch the first and second arcs).

  34. Solaris says:

    I can’t force myself to like this anime. They continue to throw in characters but the real focus of this anime should be the murders and how and why they were committed.
    This board of murders has yet no meaning. It’s just a blood feast of sacrifices to announce Beatrice’s might in an endless fanservice. So it doesn’t matter who dies and why, there’s no meaning in the closed rooms.
    (Meta)Battler is also yet useless as everything he dare say is destroyed by red speech.
    It’s all so useless. I just want to see what they put out of the cilynder at the end of this circus.
    And, by the way, Higurashi was 100 times better.

  35. PL says:

    Westlo, yes a book can, but there is a reason that lots of people dont like comic books, manga, and graphic novels as well as VN’s, even avid readers, and its because the combination of text and imagery along with our modern tv and film trained minds, creates discord in our suspension of disbelief as we switch back and forth from one to the other. My degrees are in Literature and Philosophy, so I love a good book, but when I’m reading say an Umberto Eco novel, I quickly forget that I’m reading at all and simply have a story playing out in my mind. With a comic or even the visual novels I’ve tried, I cant do that because my eyes keep getting drawn back and forth between text and image and I’m unable to completely sink into what I’m watching. And that is why anime is perfectly poised to create worlds that can be as fully imagined as a book, with as many speculative and fantastic elements as it wants, and yet like film, there are no disparate elements.

  36. Solaris says:

    I forgot to say a couple of things:

    1) Jessica is closed in a “closed room” complete with magic circle and numbers last time we saw her.
    http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6856/uminekononakukoroni181.png
    Just another unexplained closed room murder.

    2) Beatrice let Battler cover his ears before saying something that apparently dissolved everybody in the room. We don’t know what, and we saw no red text. Another acting/lie?

    3) Eva (real one) shoots Battler (not meta), revealing she’s the culprit. Wow that’s a real deus ex machina!

    It were nice If the arcs were resolved something that way. Something like in the first arc Kinzo wants to revive her mistress and sets up a game of sacrifices. In the second it was all the servitor’s fault who wanted to revive an ancient cult and in the third Eva wants the headship of the family but ends destroying all. Every arc should have been explained in some way to keep the events sustained by some logic, eventually implying the existence of some sort of exotic element called magic. But the blatant use of magic, demons and witches appearing here and there just ruinde the mystey atmosphere, reducing the events in a showroom of gore.
    Well just said far mor than just a couple of things, i return in the shadows, as i’m the one who seem to dislike (or not to undestand) this show.

  37. PL says:

    Solaris, what we are seeing is the story as told by Beatrice who wants Battler to believe that is how it is happening. Remember, very very little made sense in the first season of Higurashi either. It was season 2 that finally started answering questions. I will grant that each arc in Higurashi had more internal logic than each individual arc in Umineko, but that logic got completely overturned so that by the last arc we come to realize we’ve had everything completely wrong. In this show, each arc really only makes sense in light of the entire series. But as someone mentioned above, each arc also makes more sense of the previous arc so that re-watching them causes us to understand the events differently. Battler is going to continue to lose round by round until he unravels everything. Because as LambdaDelta made extra clear, if Beatrice loses a round she loses for good. Whereas, Battler can keep denying magic until he finally wins. Also, Beatrice made all that stuff about saving Jessica and everything up to trick Battler into giving up, so that door probably wasnt sealed and Eva could just walk in and blow Jessica away after dealing with Battler. And why was Eva shooting Battler in this arc a Deus ex machina? If none of the magic happened in that last arc, as it would be if Beatrice had really denied the existence of witches, then Eva is the only one who has been properly foreshadowed as the villain. She had a horrible childhood at the hands of Kinzo and her siblings who she hated, she’s both ambitious and greedy, and she’s psychologically unstable. So it made absolute sense that when Beatrice wanted to create the illusion that she had destroyed herself and Eva-trice, and removed all magic from the game, that she would present it as if Eva killed Battler. Also, Nanjo’s death is finally a puzzle that isnt a closed room puzzle. Instead, it’s that Jessica is incapacitated, Nanjo is murdered at point-blank range, and Battler and Eva are together and everyone else is supposed to be dead, so who killed him?

  38. ebisu says:

    In any case I can’t understand what really goes on with the murders in this third arc. First the incomplete resolution of the six closed rooms, Nanjo surely has some kind of relation with it cause he wasnt in the room when Bea’s story. Kinzo’s death by fire also. Maria’s death is strange(strangled from behind by the prints on her neck). Rosa is dead with the head impaled but she didnt shoot to resist. Krauss and his wife die being strangled with ropes apparently, but they were together in that moment so how did manage the assassin to kill one without the intervention of the other? Why George is with Shannon’s body. The numbers of the door. Nanjo’s killed but not by Eva so the unknown killer should have a reason to target him. Most probably it is Jessica who kills him, it is stated in red “she didn’t commit murder” and Nanjo died by homicide at point blank so, she killed him by accident? And finally the ring(looks like a clue item in this series), I dont know why Eva has it in the end if Kinzo throws it to the raining (or keeps it maybe).
    Just wondering but I hope everything becomes clear.

  39. lalala says:

    sadly, there are no answers yet T_T

  40. Ken says:

    The beauty of the VN genre is that it allows one or a small group of talented person(s) to create a middle ground between a book and an anime.

    To get a book published, you need to satisfy the publisher first before it’s released out to the world. There might be a good story behind it, but if you can’t appease the publisher, it’ll never see daylight. Same goes true for manga and light novels.

    OTOH, in order to make an anime, you need a huge budget and a group of staff, and even a sponsor to air it. Well these days one could make a brilliant anime like Makoto Shinkai all on his own, but not every has such talented animation skills.

    But a VN like Umineko, all you need is one genius named Ryukishi07 and one programmer named BT (and may he RIP) to be released directly to the public. No middleman, no connections, no need for a huge budget.

    So if you like Higurashi and Umineko, think first why this was animated in the first place. It all came from a doujin (amateur) visual novel game.

  41. PL says:

    Ken, Thanks, that does make sense, and I’m not dissing VN’s, I’m just saying that with the current state of technology, anime, for me, is the medium with the most potential for bringing a story to its fullest expression.

  42. heine says:

    I don’t think Beato was fully trolling Battler.

    When Battler asked her if she was truly lying, there was a shot of Beato pausing, and gritting her teeth before she smiled and outright admitted that Battler got trolled. She may have conjured up a brilliant plan, but I also believe she meant some of the things she said to Battler during the entire time.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Niello
Eoghan: Enjoy... ;)
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I haven't read this, its very strange to see a manga about full anthro animal characters: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Beastars
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: So based on that I will try devil lady. Thanks.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: That'd be me who made that post. I thought dororon enma-kun was wonderfully ridiculous and Devilman gorishly entertaining, Shin Mazinger Z was probably some of the most fun I had with an anime, but violence jack took it way too far though so I guess I'm aquainted with nagai's work
Vonter
I don't remember who was looking for something noir in anime. I was looking among several series from Go Nagai. And watched some Devil Lady. I don't remember if noir is exclusively detective stories, but this anime, has those high contrast shadows, eerie music and is shot like some japanese horror movies I've seen. I don't know if it changes along the road but so far it's very suspenseful.
SuperMario
I only know him through his works in Berserk and Paprika but his music never fails to amaze me
Anonymous1626471
@Amagi: Ghost Bridge is my favourite. I just find it very calming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeh5aJsxlbw
Amagi
Susumu Hirasawa is one of my favorite musicians/composers. I don't even know what kind of subgenre this is. There aren't any other music groups I know who do similar stuff
Nielllo
@Mario, Already saw that video before.
SuperMario
Check this out... I don't even know what the freaking instrument he's playing, but it's spellbound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjalQjAomH0
Niello
Just when I thought Houseki no Kuni took the prize for best animation I was treated with Apocrypha. This week is amazing.
Niello
Big name animators all over. They really threw everything they've got here.
Niello
Woooooah! OMG Apocrypha ep 22 animation is sick! So that's why the animation in the first half of the show is so lackluster and basically just darn awful.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its not entirely odd to bring up Heydrich in relation to the occult either, apparently he was said to be part of some whackjob order.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm, that girl from Dies irae, Anna Schwegln is aptly named, also shares her name with the last executed person for witchcraft, who was Bavarian German, which i'm told by an Austrian friend were particular right-est leaning politically.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course unfortunately its often the opposite that happens, nothing is worse than an ending that ruins everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, how I love being surprised by something. That feeling where you''re watching something shakily held together, simply okay or good, then suddenly in the second half or last stretch your score of it goes massively up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can kind of understand the wanting to go home and watch something easy mentality instead of challenging but even though I'm guilty of escapism, I'm tired somewhat of "sillier" stuff, its often enjoyable but its get overly reptitive and I wish I could find more philosophical/political/imaginative things.
Amagi
Yeah the show is great because of its theme, the setting and chemistry girls have as well as their (lack of) knowledge about basic human things. Each episode thematizes this in a different way but there isn't much you can talk or say about it when you already explained the topic in detail.
SuperMario
On the other hand, I don't have much to talk about Girls' Last Tour this week. It's still good, but with this episode I feel that I'm running out of concrete thig to say about the show
SuperMario
Haha both Houseki and 3-gatsu have a good showing this week. I have a lot of things to talk about Houseki in particular
Amagi
This week's Houseki is jurassic park
Amagi
*-ati - I think Netflix and so are at least giving a few new impulses which isn't too bad. I don't think the typical anime series will disappear because of that.
Amagi
At least in comparisation
Amagi
I think it's just sad how often I see wonderful series selling 500 BD/DVD or maybe even less. Most series don't sell more than 1500 or so and the rest is usually at ~3000-5000 which is still pretty low.
Amagi
Yeah, it's one of my pro-Netflix arguments as well. Another problem is that anime (not counting manga) only make money through dvd/bd sales since they air at night, whereas Netflix or daytime tv series don't depend on the latter so much and since anime BDs are so expensive the only ones who buy them are the more extreme fans.
AidanAK47
Might be in part due to the workaholic nature of their society that makes escapist fantasy and empty entertainment more appealing than usual. Ultimately these are the people anime is made for so opening up the markets gives more deserving shows a fighting chance.
Though that isn't to say that western taste is perfect either.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, That's part of the reason I think some westernation might be a good thing as from what I seen the Japanese have truly terrible taste in anime. Sales charts from Japan just make me shake my head.
Amagi
God, the preorder anime lists are atricious. The only one that seems to sell acceptable (around 6k) is Mahoyome. Series like Inuyashiki have 80 pre-orders so far, Shuumatsu Shoujo 977. Idol shows sell good of course, including that male/bishounen Idolmaster
AidanAK47
@Anon, I read it but kinda fell out due to it's releases being slow.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Actually if you check the manga recommendations section, you'll see there is a post about it here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yes, it was interesting to follow a story that dealt with a characters homosexuallity that was outside of the yaoi/yuri mould.
Anonymous1620968
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here read Shimanami Tasogare?
Niello
Where are we up to with Inuyashiki?
Lenlo
Well alright then. Episode 9 out of 11 and that happens. Was not expecting that
Lenlo
Ooo something happen this week? Im about to watch it
Kaiser-Eoghan
It feels just as rushed and awkward in the manga.
Amagi
I noticed this too
AidanAK47
Inuyashiki has balls of steel to pull that in this particular episode number.
Nielllo
Finally got around to reading Helck, and it looks like it's going to go into that pile of good-shounen-that-won't-ever-get-animated right alongside Psyren.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Imagine trying to buy the dvds of the show in public.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Gentle remind that the prism ilya movie is out and subbed.
AidanAK47
Still surprised the second and third seasons got dubbed.
AidanAK47
@Angel, I replied to one of your comments before but the rundown is no official word yet but maybe next year.
Angel
Or no? Someone please tell me!!
Angel
Going to happen?
Angel
Is fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub
Amagi
I dislike it when manga bait me into reading due to the first chapter and end up being some very generic stuff afterwards. Nobody stays for B if he started something for A, authours should expect that.
Lenlo
Really, Juuni should stick with the 3D. That fight in ep 9 looked pretty good. 3D is clearly what they are good at
AidanAK47
@Niello, It's not Chatango. It's a plugin for wordpress called Wisechat.
SuperMario
@Niello: yeah, Juuni caught me off guard this week. The production of Juuni is unfortunately shaky, but well, strong writing can save the day
Niello
Btw is this chat still Chatango?
Niello
This week episode of Juini is surprisingly good compared to how the show usually is with its backstory. Although the part where Ox tries to explain to Tiger could definitely use some visual buff.
SuperWooper
in the future*
SuperWooper
Pretty cool that Juuni Taisen had that kind of emotional heft this week, though. Might be one of the 2017 shows I sample the in the future.
SuperWooper
I think the occasional comments with an episode title and nothing more come from people who mistake the shoutbox for a search bar.
SuperMario
@Anon1614688: juuni taisen... made me tearing up this week. Honestly didn't expect that. Damn you, Tiger
Anonymous1614688
juuni taisen
Amagi
Had some complaints regarding Children of Whales but the latest two episodes were pretty good.
Amagi
@Anon: You explained it better than me.
Anonymous1614307
Kaiser: I actually have the exact same opinion of Natsume and Mushishi. Both are excellent, but Natsume just does a great job with a small core cast and a very simple premise
Anonymous1614456
who likes naruto
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mushishi does have good stories, but it was always a manga I'd dip in and out of, on and off for years, never marathoning it, wheras Natsume was easier to read several chapters of in one go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its because Natsume has more pathos.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more than
Natsume weirdly ended up becoming this comfort manga for me with a higher consistency rate .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will state that I hold the terrible opinion that I like Natsume Yujinchou than Mushishi but at the same time completely recognize that Mushishi is probably the more ambitious, better show.
Niello
So it becomes a cycle of "this is an interesting set up" (except that the new Kino isn't even good at that) and then they fucked up or Kino/Shizu fucked them up even more, then move on. Without the emphasis on philosophical nature of the set up they present like in the original Kino, there really isn't that much point to it.
Niello
With the new Kino it's more about messing people up, occassionally observing and hardly ever improving. The anwsers or solutions to the problem they present is never really talked about in a rational way.
SuperMario
@Anon1614318: maybe you should give the old Kino a try. What I don't like most about the new version of Kino is that both Kino and the new guy are sketched as hero. The old Kino manages the tone right as well. There were some really dark tales and most of them thought-provoking. Can't say the same for say...Country of Cooking
Anonymous1614318
I don't know, it might be interesting to actually dig deep into the differences between episodic series with this kind of style to see what works and what doesn't.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's a matter of the chapter they chose to adapt were not really the better ones but the ones where the protagonist is more of an active role. Not totally against that, but it feels like the protagonist is just OP all the time. At least with Mushishi Ginko isn't able to save everyone all the time.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's supposed to be more allegorical, but most of the time the allegory is not really meaningful enough. I thought it would be more along the lines of Mushishi, which is kind of similar in setup, but better in most other ways.
Anonymous1614318
What keeps me sticking around are some of the nice background arts and generally pleasant use of color, but admittedly most of the episodes aren't really engaging in a meaningful way. Most of the time its just Kino/Shizu show up, find out town's gimmick, then save the day. I prefer the episodes where the townspeople are more than just flat background characters.
Anonymous1614318
It's interesting to see how this new Kino season is being received from folks who've already watched the original. This is my first real exposure to Kino, and I kind of like it, but even without watching the original, I share many of the same complaints Aidan and most of the others have.
Amagi
I am also kinda sad he's just some 2* servant in fgo, but his power is special and he's physically weak, so it's understandable.
Amagi
And again, Shakespeare is just great but the character is, sadly, kinda wasted here considering how much screentime he has.
Amagi
@Aidan: Yes. Plus, maybe more characterization or background for some servants. The anime would have that time without Sieg and his romance sub plot.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Those being remove Sieg and more Shakespeare?
Amagi
And man Apocrypha is pretty good but it would be twice as good if it had those two changes Aidan always mentions in the reviews..
Amagi
@Kaiser: I think the male in Kino was a mistake. Having two PoV sounds good, but he's basically just a male Kino, he even looks like her. Someone vastly different would have been way more interesting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd guarantee that sangatsu no lion would be high up, but FINALLY this weekend I'll be catching up.
Niello
@Kaiser, Ugh my phone gitched. What I meant to say was that background was unexpected. Now I see why you're enjoying CotW though.
Niello
@Kaiser, That's unexpected.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoyed how outright surreal Arakawa was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: It bothers me that they're stuffing multiple tales into single episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, excel saga, I wonder what I would think of it now, its been years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I actually respect Aidan's coverage of it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: Yes that edgy villain kid in COTWs was annoying though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I don't care much for the male character that leads some of the episodes in this new adaptation.
@Niello: Its a non-mainstream shoujo that isn't set in a school, moves at a quick enough pace and has some nice background art/chara design, I grew up on shoujo fantasy manga also so theres that.
Amagi
I mean there are parts I like. I enjoyed the first episode, and the part about the country of liars. But many other things annoy me and the last episode was the worst. I also feel like the edgy bomb loli and slapstick Kino don't fit to the rest of the show somehow. Maybe I forgot everything, but the "old" Kino felt like a better character to me somehow, this one is more faithful to the LNs though
Amagi
@Kaiser: I honestly gave up on Kino and I think it's only partly the fault of the new series. I am just so tired of how stupid most of the episodic-characters are unless their are friends of Kino, how everyone gets bent being irredeemable evil for plot's sake and how everything Kino and her friends do gets justified. Maybe I am just too old or boring for this fairy tail like moral bending.
SuperMario
Still have Night is Short review to write... i will get there. I will get there
Anonymous1612237
It's like having potty mouth characters. If you have one, it can be funny and a good comedic relief. If everyone does it, it can come out as mean spirited or trashy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I haven't watched A Bad Idea Gone Wrog, as for now my top priority is to catch up with 2017 anime for the Yearly summary. But I will get on to it when I have some free time
Anonymous1612237
Amagi - Chibi stuff I've seen it mainly work in anime comedies with low budgets like Those Who Hunt Elves, Ranma, Excel Saga, Arakawa Under the Bridge, Nanbaka, etc. I think if you really have to use it in a more serious anime, I think it might work if it was part of one character's gag.
SuperMario
Children of the Whales, along with Juuni Taisen, keep falling out on me. Kino is pretty a hit-or-miss at the moment. I don't mind the last episode's multiple tales though
Niello
Problem about AMB chibi jokes are that they arwn't funny in the first place nor do they have a punch line.
Niello
@Eoghan, Really surprise you put Children of the Whales so high, I'm falling behind on some shows but it is still near the bottom of my list (the absolute bottom remains Kino).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The latest Kino episode was a real slap in the face/insult, really really thought that one segement would carry on for the whole episode and be a redemptive one/getting the series back on form but then it followed it up with crap comic relief segement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: For now yes.
Lenlo
Droppin Mahou Kaiser?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I no longer care what Dia's gender is, no longer I will lie to myself and deem them female.
Kaiser-Eoghan
5. would be juuni taisen
Kaiser-Eoghan
My rankings for the season based on what I am following: 1. Houseki no kuni 2. Children of the whales 3. inuyashiki 4. girls last tour dropping mahou and Kino.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't remember Joseph being all that present from what little I read of the manga.
Amagi
Fear so too. I mean it has a bunch of good ideas and good quality and such, but it feels like it won't be much more than the magical being of the week (or two weeks) and some Elias highjinks inbetween
Kaiser-Eoghan
I still say, I've got the feeling mahou will be wasted potential that won't really go anywhere much.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Did you watch that indie film you recommended yet? Bad idea gone wrong it was called. I just finished it there, budgetary limitations and outside of Matt Jones the acting isn't great, theres a few limp/dead bits too, nonetheless it has its amusing moments here and there to make for an okay comedy that isn't all that essential but amusing enough in moments if your bored.
Amagi
Yeah I think Mahou has some pacing issues. But I also think it would work way better if it was less episodic or semi-episodic.
SuperMario
I normally don't mind the chibi stuff that much but I agree in Mahoutsukai they break the tone and pacing. Serious at one time, fluffy at another...
Amagi
@Vonter: I honestly never like chibi stuff I think. Didn't care back then but nowadays I consider it annoying. One reason is that jokes only work when they aren't pointed out but just happen, sometimes even so casually that you almost miss them. Turning everyone into a chibi for a joke makes it as fun as repeating, explaining or shouting it again (which many series also do)
KTravlos
I have to give it to Altair. It got me reading the manga. The episode this week did skip over a whole manga story, but to be frank it is not too much of a loss. Pacing issues still exist. One thing I noticed was a degrading in animation. They are probably hoarding for the next two episodes which are the major battle.
Anonymous1611511
Just dropping my 2c here: Isn't it too late for the studio to correct such inherent design issue once eps start rolling out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Angel: The dub wasn't all that impressive in the first place however.
Angel
When Will fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub come out?
Vonter
The chibi stuff sadly, is like watching someone make the same mistake over and over again, without acknowledging that thing isn't coming across well. At this point it seems like an intentional choice rather than just cutting corners. Kinda like when an anime has a decent dub but has that one character with a really annoying voice.
Lenlo
Its continued this willful ignorance, this virtual refusal, to actually address the issue. Thing about the chibi is, the first scene with Silver worked. Then it just got overused.
KTravlos
Mahoutsukai continues denying itself. We finally had some tough questions asked, but the show just ignored them in the 2nd half (with generous doses of chibi). That said Elias true form is terrifying.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: If you enjoy The Scent of the Green Papaya and Cyclo, you can also check out his unofficial third film about Vietnam: The Vertical Ray of the Sun, which is about the modern day of Hanoi. It's my favorite film of his, although I know that artistically it can't compare to his earlier films
SuperMario
And I can say the mafia aspect of Cyclo is more like Hong Kong than Vietnam. But, whatever. I like this one well enough
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I particularly love the score in Cyclo. No wonder later on Tran Anh Hung asked Joony Greenwood from Raidoohead to score his films. His score has the same uncomfortable feeling with this one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would have watched an entire story based around that old man in the new Kinos journey episode.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Though while I never found it boring, it did feel it could have had a better narrative.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Cyclo I felt has some reasonable sketched characters and the aesthetic sells the viewer on the environment the characters are living in, Tony Leung was my favourite in it, I also like how some Asian films are able to mix quietness with moments of violence, makes it much more visceral.
SuperWooper
I'd lean towards weirdest thing you've ever seen. It's certainly up there for me.
Masky
...I can't figure out whether Sengoku Jidai with batman is weirdest thing I have ever seen or makes completely perfectly sense and was inevitable it would happen
K-Off
The map design should've been vastly more different, I'd love to hear why they thought it was worth it to keep the same maps as Gaiden. So. Much. Open. Fields.
K-Off
Finally got to playing Fire Emblem Shadow, and 15 hours in I'm already not a fan of the gameplay. The story is vastly superior to Gaiden, but it looks like it missed the point on how to make a good remake. The maps are just as god awful as in Gaiden and for it, (in hard mode) it feels like a game of numbers rather than strategy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I feel drama need not always go for emotions in the audiences but can be effective in a solely cold observational sense and approach.
SuperMario
haha you don't need to spy you know. Like I said Discord chat has been active lately. I find myself more comfortable chatting in there for some reasons.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I spy on the discord chat sometimes
Kaiser-Eoghan
Worried about this Junji itou adaptation thats coming up, hope it isn't one of those zero animation web-short series.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: he still has Flashmob in which he intended to make. Yeah, he started his career quite late but he has had a very successful career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Potentially could be his last film, he is quite old.
SuperMario
Agree that Happy End has many quirkier moments compared to his other works. Still a solid work but I won't rank it amongst his best
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Watching Happy End, you can immediately realize many of Haneke's favorite themes: the voyeur/camera in Benny's Video, Cache; the latent racism like you mentioned, the idea that killing someone you love is better than watching them suffering, the underlying violence in a normal middle class life in most of his works
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Like with code unknown, its approach to latent rascism is far better handled than for example a terrible hollywood oscar bait drama would handle it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I felt though had the film been a bit longer, Huppert and Jones could have gotten more scenes, same with Franz Rogowski's character.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I did however think that the disjointed nature of the earlier parts were both to the advantage and disadvantage of the film. But it delivers a killer of a last act that I loved.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally got around to seeing happy end, I liked the Cache and amour references and how Haneke cheekily managed to insert quirkier moments and even wry ones so seemlessly into the narrative. Fontaine ,Kassovitz and Tringnent had the best scenes, particularly the ones between Fontaine and Tringnent.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Physical, non-verbal communication is a far more valuable way of conveying information I believe and more effective in fiction.
SuperMario
Report on Just Because so far: they took on the three-way romance direction, which I initally ain't fond of. But last episode actually was great with the focus on body gestures and natural dialogues, delivering one of the brst exchange the show has this season. A good watch overall
Lenlo
Sadly, the only anime youll probably get like that will be made outside japan, like Castlevania was, and wouldnt be considered "anime" by most of the community. A shame, cause Castlevania was great.
Lenlo
A classic western would be cool. Like Red Dead the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I am just coming up with fantasizing now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Even a Raymond Chandler style of story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd also love to see a non-scifi western anime get made now or even an east meets west thing with cowboys AND samurai in it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats a good example Vonter I guess but I probably should have been more clear/clarified that what I meant is that I wanted to see more noir anime being made NOW , I want netflix to back one . I mean the kind of thing where everyone is wearing fedoras and trench coats and its 1930/40/50, shadows everywhere or it looks impressionistic.
Vonter
Kaiser-Eoghan - Monster is a very grounded detective like story. The villain is good and intimidating, some moral dilemmas are poignant and despite being animated I remember it having good direction of photography since the story takes place Germany, Prague, and some other places.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've only seen bits of wolf rain many years ago, never bothered with it further after hearing the pacing is terrible and it makes an unsatisfactory ending even less worth waiting for.
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