Posted by psgels on 12 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Whoa, the CG Shaders have found Umineko at last. I have to say, that now that the properly shaded characters actually look pretty good. That’s the thing with Studio Deen’s graphics: it either looks really good or really bad. There’s hardly any in between.

Anyway, this episode rounds off the second part of Ange’s background. We learn that she’s not only revived Maria, but also she attempted to train as a witch, which eventually went wrong. On top of that, Maria is also revealed to be not just a witch, but also as Beatrice’s ally. Which does at the moment make no sense because I have no idea on whose side Maria truly is. If it is true that magic even existed in the first arc, it would explain her strange behavior there: she indeed was on Beatrice’s side, and merely enjoyed Beatrice’s little game a bit too much.

The question of course remains: if this is true, then what was up with her in the subsequent arcs? And I think that that’s where the real killer comes in. My guess is that as a little kid, she knew Beatrice and she really believed that whoever was behind the murders was Beatrice. This worked in the first arc because she was one of the people that the killer apparently let live (or at least, killed the last), however in the subsequent arcs (especially the third) she wasn’t as lucky and realized that someone other than Beatrice was on a killing spree.

I really suspect that Maria is able to remember every single arc. That would explain her huge change in character, and more importantly why she was able to write down every single detail about all of the arcs so far. It’s a bit of a mystery how she ended up writing about her own death, but again: at this point we have no idea exactly how much influence magic has in the real world. The witches must have been able to use illusions: otherwise people would not have been able to see them, and if magic really was the culprit then it doesn’t make any sense that it completely disappears once the magic scenes are over.

Lambdadelta comes with an interesting twist at the end, although I don’t think I fully understand it. She mentions how, when Battler wins the game he gets sent back to 1986, not 1998. However, doesn’t that mean that Ange still gets to meet her brother, only his 30-year-old version? Or did she mean that Meta-Battler gets sent back to the dimension he came from, while the other Battler simply remains dead? After all, it actually seems that Battler survived in the second arc. I’m actually pretty interested to see what happened to the Ange of that world.
Rating: * (Good)

29 Responses

  1. Deus says:

    @psgels: “Lambdadelta comes with an interesting twist at the end, although I don’t think I fully understand it. She mentions how, when Battler wins the game he gets sent back to 1986, not 1998. However, doesn’t that mean that Ange still gets to meet her brother, only his 30-year-old version?”

    It means even if Battler wins, the Ange standing right there at that moment (the one who grew up without a family) will not be able to get her family back. Solving the mystery wont undo the past. A *different* Ange may be able to grow up happily, but it won’t be her.

    For Ange, this means she’s basically fighting the fight for another another version of herself, and even if she wins she has absolutely no reward. Her family is gone whether she wins or loses.

  2. Kincaid says:

    I don’t watch this show but your mentioning the CG making the show look better made me look at the screenshots again.

    That looks like an ungodly amount of brightness/bloom o__o

  3. Westlo says:

    “After all, it actually seems that Battler survived in the second arc.”

    He got torn apart and eaten by goats IIRC, same with Kinzo.

  4. chounokoe says:

    What Lambda meant was, that the Battler of the game which is won will go home and meet his sister again…what happens to his meta-self remains unclear now.

    It is similar to what was explained in Higurashi’s Saikoroshi-hen, of course every world continues to exist and FurudeRika’s consciousness changing the fate of one(!) Furude Rika won’t change the fact that every arc we’ve seen so far leaves the characters destroyed, dead or worse.

    One additional thing that maybe was a bit hard to notice in the anime, because it was only mentioned briefly, but the content in Maria’s diary which was written by Beatrice in the scene in Kuwadorians garden is similar in handwriting to the two letters that were found and described the scenario of Episode 1 and 2…which is strange, isn’t it?

  5. soavifox says:

    Ex, thanks for the links. it was nice to see an extended version of that scene basically.

  6. Taiyaki says:

    @psgels

    “… and more importantly why she was able to write down every single detail about all of the arcs so far….”

    It was shown in this episode that Maria COULDN’T have written the bottle letters.

    The handwriting from the letters was similar to Beatrice’s handwriting (or at least, the person who wrote on Maria’s diary and referred to themselves as “Beatrice”), not Maria’s. This person basically wrote all of the letters and then signed them as “Maria Ushiromiya”.

  7. Marion says:

    It should be made clear: The only time any has EVER survived was when Eva lived in the conclusion of EP 3 and made it out alive. Otherwise no one on the island has ever made it out.

    As far as Maria knowing whatever happens I have doubts of this myself. It’s not the same as it was with Rika in Higurashi – Rika had died over hundreds of times, which is why she knew the general outcome of any situation. Just because Maria is Beatrice’s friend doesn’t mean she knows what happens, especially if you go the ‘magic isn’t the culprit’ route.

    As far as the details of each arc Maria DID NOT write those letters. Otsuki (the guy Ange talked to) recognized the handwriting to be the same as Beatrice’s signature. That means Maria’s Beatrice and the one who gave Sakutaro a ‘human’ form is the one writing down the endroll of each arc and signing it in Maria’s name.

    Lambda’s explanation of Bern’s promise is like this: If Battler wins this game (the current one) then he won’t go back to the Ange of EP 3 (“Gretel”) but rather will go back to the little 1986 Ange of EP 4. Ange (our Ange) never had a chance of getting Battler or her family to return to her, which is what Bern had basically told her what would happen. So Bern lied to Ange.

  8. Deus says:

    @ Marion

    Technically, Bernkastel didn’t lie about anything. She never promised anything in the first place (“I can’t make any promises). And as the Witch of Miracles, you could say that miracles are miracles because they *don’t* happen.

    Bern herself stated she was the “cruelest witch” the first time we see her. She’s been upfront from the start that she is *not* a nice person.

  9. Camario says:

    I don’t know about that, for me it came across as if Bernkastel had kept Ange out of the loop, but this revelation doesn’t make for a direct contradiction. In fact, in retrospect it would have made sense for Ange to reach that conclusion on her own.

    Anyway, the episode was slow and not very exciting, but I thought it was interesting enough in spite of that and the slightly confusing jump between different points in the chronology of events.

  10. Frost says:

    So they are playing with dimensions now… I can see it already, quantum physics will explain magic, that must be it -.-

  11. Marion says:

    @Deus: Very true. Still I guess Ange was just a bit shocked, because Bern told her that if she suceeded there would be a chance of her getting her family back when in reality there was NEVER a chance.

  12. soavifox says:

    I don’t think Bern lied at all. She meerly omitted part of the truth. Its true, that if battler wins, she’ll get her family back. However the her that wants her family back will no longer exist. She’d have to sacrifice herself to save herself that pain of speration.

  13. Zaric says:

    It seems like once Battler stepped off the game board and into the meta word that he became something more than human. This is clearly evidanced with his return in the second arc after getting ripped part by goats.

    I’m guessing that like Eva and Eva-Beatrice or Maria and the Witch Maria… Meta-Battler is a wizard, warlock, sorcerer, or some mythical incarnation the human form. The fact he denies magic doesn’t change the fact he’s existing in the mythic realm, as opposed to the real world.

    I’m betting if Batter did win the games once and for all that his piece in the game would live on and get off the island alive, however the meta version of him, that him that exists in the mythical realm would most likely persist in that form.

    What I figure from the ending twist is that Ange can never return to the past and become that little girl again. Even if a new time-line is created, her magical nature, being Ange-Beatrice, will simply witness the changed timeline from a third person prospective.

  14. Reltair says:

    If you stop and start thinking about it, this series can easily become very confusing. Just when I think I know what’s going on, everything changes.

  15. Viewer says:

    There’s something else about Maria; remember in the third game, when Eva-Beatrice confronts Rosa and Maria outside? Even though Rosa obviously saw Eva, Maria didn’t seem to recognise the person standing before them, even before Eva-Beatrice revealed her true form. In fact, Maria only knew that it was “Beatrice” standing before them when the witch announced her own name.

    Any theories how this could be?

  16. Deus says:

    @ Viewer:

    A few theories:

    a. “Beatrice” is the culprit. That is, the person having tea with Maria in the flashback, wrote in her diary, and gave Sakurato human form is the killer in act 3. This can be any person (a playmate, perhaps? Shannon, Jessica look suspicious). Said person may not really be magical, but Maria believes them to be. The way they were killed is false, like Beatrice and Virgilia’s fight scene, and was done via mundane means.

    b. “Beatrice” was there, but was not the culprit. Same as A, but Maria sees “Beatrice”, and is quickly killed by another person. This is symbolically supported in the fact that while Beatrice may *represent* a culprit, *Eva Beatrice* is not the one Maria is friendly with. I.e. Maria may be friendly with *a* Beatrice, and this person may be a culprit, but Eva-Beatrice is another culprit acting as Beatrice and is not “her” Beatrice. This would apply if any culprit is *symbolically* Beatrice.

    c. Don’t trust the scene. Or the scene could be a lie.

    d. The scene went exactly as it did.

  17. kettobase says:

    the message in a bottle thing seemed like a big revelation from this episode… the two messages in a bottle from 2 different arcs/games both appeared in Ange’s “real future world”

    …it makes it seem like magic is real and whats happening is exactly what the witches say-they’re playing games where they continuously repeat the events on the island in different ways… so time on the island is being repeated over and over while the outside world’s time just keeps going

  18. kettobase says:

    forgot to say… that if that were true it would also explain why Bernkastel could bring the older version of Ange into the “past”/game and would also sort of mean what Lamdadelta told Ange was just a bluff

  19. Deus says:

    Or it could mean a human culprit is imagining their murders beforehand, and the previous arcs are their “stories” of how it would go.

  20. tadam says:

    I’ve never seen a reaction from psgels in the umineko comments section :P

  21. Viewer says:

    @Dues

    It probably wasn’t Jessica or Shannon in the third game who committed the murders; while it’s used by witches, the red truth is fundamentally the closest thing we have to knowing what is actually happening on the island.

    One of the specific things that Eva-Beatrice confirmed was “Jessica Ushiromiya didn’t commit murder”, which brings us to the real kicker; Dr. Nanjo was killed at pointblank range by a person, who wasn’t Jessica or Battler, but Eva (the only person on the island who actually survived the incident) was with Battler the whole time. Obviously, drugs could have been used on Battler, but that is a somewhat abused argument as it is, isn’t it? Perhaps Eva was hypnotized, her controller using her greed and anger to make her act on his/her whims?

    And I’d like to omit what I mentioned about Maria before; she’s young, and Eva could have simply been acting strange enough for her not to recognize her aunt over the matter, or the person could have disguised themself as Eva (I’d like to point out that the marks on Maria’s neck show she was strangled with on hand, and it would have to be an adult’s too). Simply put, Rosa used Eva’s appearance, while Maria used her behavior, to try and recognize the person in the garden. Unlike in the other arcs, it’s become fairly obvious that at least one murder on the island was committed by Eva in the third game; the problem is in finding out if she did them all, which ones she did other than Battler, if any, or simply if she was acting as a puppet for the “Beatrice” entity (I don’t mean supernatural entity, I’m just using that word in place for a gender specific identifier). My theories for the scene I talked about are;

    A: “Beatrice” used Eva’s clothing in an elaborate disguise that Maria saw through while Rosa didn’t.
    B: It was actually Eva in the garden, while Hideyoshi was out smoking, drugged, or otherwise unaware of his wife’s actions.

  22. FaS says:

    :( I dropped this show due to time issues, but want to pick it back up. Judging from you getting all the way to episode 20, I suspect it’s pretty legit ;D Anyways, nice blog! I’ve been keeping up w/you since last summer. Great detailed posts. Mind if I add you to my blogroll?

  23. Deus says:

    @ Viewer:

    There’s a fundamental error, in that equating Beatrice = murderer, when in fact a character can *play* Beatrice without killing anyone at all, satisfying the red truth. As I stated, there may even be multiple Beatrice’s: “Maria’s” Beatrice, her benefactor whom she plays tea parties with, and “murderer” Beatrice, who kills everyone, or any combination in between.

    The problem with Eva as the culprit in part 3 is that she’s way too obvious. They practically spoonfed that answer to us. Which means she, as the main culprit (aside from her murder of Battler, which may have been motivated by fear, in suspecting Battler as the murderer ala “Wolf and Sheep” puzzle), is most likely wrong. Same for Rosa in part 2.

    My personal suspect? Nanjo. That is, Nanjo in collusion with a person (or persons) he previously proclaimed as “dead”. As a doctor, he’s usually the first and only person to examine the bodies, and there is no guarantee on what he says except his word. He’s *very* suspicious, in ALL arcs. Said person then kills him to keep him quiet, then simply leaves, leaving Eva to wander to Kuwadorian.

    Who’s the killer then? Somebody who we think of as dead earlier in the arc, but was never announced in red.

  24. psgels psgels says:

    tadam: lol, I just like to read the different theories that you guys are all posting. If I have any issues with them, I usually subtly include this in subsequent posts.

    FaS: sure, go ahead. :)

  25. Sacchi says:

    I and some other people discuss the episodes of Umineko on a forum. I thought you could be interested in reading my post about this episode. Check the very last part for something I noticed regarding what you said about Maria having been killed in the third game.

    Just for the note, I haven’t played the games, so if I happen to come across something that’s true, 1) Don’t tell me. 2) Don’t delete this post for spoilers, since this is only what I’ve noticed. Ok, here it goes:

    Let’s see…we now know that Beatrice’s name is Beatrice Warugiria, although I’m not sure if we already knew this, or if it serves for anything. Just wondering, do wives in Japan get the last name of their husband like in USA? ‘Cause that would mean that Beatrice was never wive of Kinzo, although the possibility of her being his secret love stands.

    Also, I didn’t quite understand something. I don’t get japanese, so please excuse me. But did the episode just reveal that the letters that were supposedly written by Maria were actually written by Beatrice’s master (totally forgot her name)? It would make sense. When the guy recognizes the letter, they clearly focus on the letter type at the end of the page. We also see that the letter at the end of the page is completely different to the one that is written in most of the page. Checking the book scene again, we clearly see that it is Beatrice who starts writing, and then Beato’s master finally writes something at the end of the page, which is what the guy in the restaurant finally notices.

    Now, there’s two possibilities. Either Maria is a nice ally of Beatrice and that explains why she wasn’t killed before, or Beato’s master is clearly trying to trick Ange and Battler with her acting as Maria. After all, we did know that it wasn’t Maria who wrote the letters and put them in the whine bottles, and we know that Beato’s master has always been an ally of Beatrice, since she helped Beato trick Battler with all the Evatrice thing. That would mean that Ange and Maria ARE indeed good friends, but the Maria and Beatrice that we saw in the “black space for witches only” were Beatrice and Beatrice’ master. Since Beatrice master clearly supports Beatrice, that’s why “Maria” says “I’ve got a power that you don’t have Ange, and that is magic.”

    My current theory is that in this episode we saw both the real Maria witch and the false Maria. False Maria in the whole “black space” scene, true Maria in helping Ange get better with her powers by calling the 7 sisters. Still not sure about the Maria in the tea party in secret garden, ’cause that was just weird. For one side, you’ve got that whatever happened there clearly was written on Maria’s diary. On the other hand, it could have just been a trick, or possibly Maria met the true Beatrice, the one that we were shown that fell off a cliff and died.

    Or, assuming that witches don’t exist at all, we send this episode to a very, very far away corner in our minds and ignore it :D

    EDIT: Quit the censoring! I freaking want to see halloween sweets in people’s stomaches xD

    EDIT2: Ok, just thought of something. First, I started thinking why Maria got killed in the third game “peacefully” by Beatrice. Then, I realized that all that was a freaking illusion. And then, I realized that 3 games have happened so far, yet there are only 2 letters describing the events of the third game…

  26. ebisu says:

    Well i think here starts to play the two basic or usual time theories, usually incompatible with each other. One is that everything you change in the past will affect your future and actually change your present, and the other is that changing the past will create a parallel dimension where events go a different way, but it won’t affect your present.
    And so the bottles are fact that there is going on a change on the present that results in a different order of the events later. So my guess is that Lamba is lying like a witch(she says the most convenient truth for her) and Ange has still the chance now that she is out of the chessboard.

    Also about Maria, the events in this fourth arc seems to have changed because of Kawamura/Virgilia awakening in the third arc. Warugiria is awakened since the start of this story now so it is natural that magical events, like Sakutarou and Maria’s, happen in a different order.
    For my theory, now we know that everything that happens in a chessboard will have consequences in the next one, even if you reset the game. That explains why the killers change maybe. And just to say, if Battler wins Ange could end in her body of 6 years knowing all about the witches and enjoying her happy ending.

    Finally, Kinzo has died all 3 times being burnt to death so he might have been really dead since the beggining, though his fucking ring is the clue to resolve a lot of the murders. Note also, the writing of the two letters is the same so the job’s done by the same person. So if it is not Maria the writer then one assassin in first and two arcs is the same person and survives till the end.

  27. Lloyd says:

    Hey, Long time reader First time poster. Can I just say that this blog is what keeps me coming back to Battler and his one sided war against magic? You really help clarifiy points I might have missed.

    And speaking of which:

    Remember everyone, according to battler’s theory in the last arc, one of the six people who died in the key switching locked rooms on the first twilight was the killer too. There may have been two killers in the last Arc. (Which may even be the one who was responsible for George and his dad’s death, if Eva was his/her accomplice.)

    Wait… sudden thought… Did beato say in red text that each one of the twilight deaths were actually.. you know… dead?

  28. Deus says:

    @ Lloyd:

    Yes, all characters killed in the first twilight were stated dead in red.

    What *does* raise red flags, however, is the failure to state Kyrie, Rudolph and Hideyoshi dead (Ronove starts, but never finishes). So a case can be made that an original murderer started out with the usual “kill 6 people plan” as per the first 2 arcs, screwed up along the way and got themselves killed, and one of those 3 people not stated in red (plus or minus a few accomplices) took up the slack in murdering for the rest of the arc.

    What’s more, if we take magical events as symbolic of events as they happen in reality, only distorted, then it makes even more sense. Beatrice effectively gives up an active role in events after the first twilight (the original killer taken out of the equation), and replaced with *another* magical representation: Eva Beatrice, symbolizing another individual or set of individuals carrying out the murders.

    This “murderer set 2” may be *triggered* by “murderer set 1”, but is not related to it otherwise.

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Kaiser Eoghan
At most moonbeam city seems sylistically interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
Archer I simply lost track of and it ended up getting to long to catch up on it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Relatively old news, although I've been joking with friends about what if scenarios for a streets of rage film. I know there is a cg/live action hybrid sonic film in the works. I kind of want to think a shinobi or streets of rage film could work if they went full on 70s style action film.
AidanAK47
None of these games are played for the story. You would be better off just making a new game for them instead of a movie.
AidanAK47
I haven't even seen Archer. On another note SEGA is planning a bunch of live action movies of their franchises and boy do they all sound like a horrible idea. Shinobi, Golden Axe, Virtua Fighter, The House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Streets of rage and Altered Beast.
SuperMario
@Anon522497: hmm, I found Moonbeam City underwhelmed and for Archer up until their last season I actually got a bit tired of the cast (couldn't finish that season 7)
Anonymous522497
If i wanted Archer i would just watch Archer or Moonbeam City like everyone else.
Anonymous522338
Bloodivores
SuperMario
Anyone here watching Pacific Heat? It's an Aussie Archer-ripoff aired in Netflix last week. I actually enjoyed the 1st episode, not that great but everyone panned it like a plague.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Who?
Anonymous521123
#StephanieJaworowiczIsBeautiful
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: That'd be the compiliation film. I watched that based on hearing that the film version trimmed back on the shows weaker moments.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: was it the compilation film or the series itself? That scene is the highlight of that first season. I'm always a fan of KyoAni so it's very natural that I enjoy this series a whole lot.
Kaiser Eoghan
I watched the first season of sound euphonium, not much to say for it other than I liked the teacher guy and the scene where the black haired girl tells the main character that she thinks shes hiding behind a mask. Animation was as expected of kyoani good. All of those emotion shots though and some of the melodrama...
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, it does stop if you make an account.
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmmm there we go again, it delayed sending my message for longer than it should have.
Kaiser Eoghan
Anyone notice today and last night that the site has had some loading issues? I kept getting an error page for a while and it was also loading a bit more slowly. A server issue?
Lenlo
Have to say, Flip Flappers ep 5 was pretty good. I love atmospheric settings like that.
Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not so much that I dislike post 50s fellini moreso I feel that his throw everything at the screen and hope what sticks method can be hit or miss.
SuperMario
While I don't really mind his later stuffs because he was masterclass, I have a pretty hard time for Paolo Sorrentino's later works. The thing is I don't care much about the high class society so everything is just ridiculously over the top and glamour and I'm tired of it.
SuperMario
I haven't watched nights of cabiria but I did watch La Strada and boy, I was sad for few days after watching it. Fellini mentioned that he was inspired to make this movie when seeing a woman pushing a cart from behind. The film really carry that sense throughout its running
SuperMario
Michael Haneke put Salo in his top 10 films. Quite understandable when you think about it. Still for me one of the movie that affected me deeply.
SuperMario
I really admire Elle for its ability to maintain its sharpness because under other inexperienced directors it could easily becomes a mess. Mel Gibson, really? He's one of the few actors that I absolutely dislike
SuperMario
@Kaiser: The Red Turtle remains one of the the most refreshing time I had this year in cinema, but then again I haven't watched much films lately. Agree with you on Sonia's performance, and I still think they could cut out the first 20' of the film because it feels out of place compare to the rest of the film
Kaiser Eoghan
Debating whether to bother catching up on I am a hero or watching the film adaptation. I haven't read it since they got rid of that one female character.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I've a feeling you'll like nights of cabiria, Fellini was cranking out some solidly effective social-realist dramas in the 50s before he fell into self-indulgence.
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I have that sound euphonium compilation film downloaded, I should get to that sometime.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also finally watched Salo, I ended up meeting it pretty much halfway. Some parts still retain the ability to effect a modern viewer, having seen his other works though its crazy just how different Salo is to them.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Seeing I, daniel Blake tomorrow and rogue one in a few weeks.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I hope Mel Gibson and Isabelle huppert win at the next oscars.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the red turtle for its visual style of storytelling and animation even if I didn't get as emotionally attached to it as others did. I also watched Aquarius nd was pretty much blown away by Sonia Braga's performance. Elle is now one of my favourite Verhoeven films and its a miracle he managed to maintain such a great balance successfully throughout the film.
SuperMario
I don't care for the sequel of Code Geass at all. Why Spice & Wolf still hasn't got season 3 though is what really bugged me. From what I know their manga and LNs are selling very well
Anonymous494677
I wonder why that is...
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, they were always milking code geass though what with those bajillion-million-billion manga spinoffs.
Kaiser Eoghan
Still say I was more fond of the character chemistry in spice and wolf as opposed to everything else.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll likely pass on the code geass sequel, the memory I have of it has already led to its appeal dimishing for me, I don't want to ruin things further watching an un-neccesary followup. Still avoiding utawerumono's second season for same reasons.
AidanAK47
After all there are things which need sequels and things which don't. And Code Geass never needed a sequel after R2's ending. Giving something a sequel can just ruin the conculsion of the orignal series. Case in point. Eureka Seven Ao. Remember that? Cause you shouldn't. Because it was terrible.
AidanAK47
Honestly I would have preferred Spice and Wolf Season 3.
AidanAK47
So...is anyone gonna mention that Code Geass is getting a sequel?
....Because Code Geass is getting a sequel.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am watching it as well. But I am a bit behind because I am watching the funimation broadcast dub. It's a very good guilty pleasure. I don't find it quite as funny anymore but it's still pure dumb fun.
SuperMario
@Anon487524: I'm still following it and it still remains a fun show to watch. I love the way they do the fan-servicey completely straight.
Topgavin
@anon I'll admit to watching it. While it is very simple and follows the sport anime formula religiously, it's still a blast to watch every week. This is also helped because you have no expectations for it before watching other than "oh god what's gonna happen this week".
Anonymous487524
Granted, nothing special, just one of those anime whose only worth is being fun to watch without being deep, but Keijo really is fun to watch, easily the best guilty pleasure anime in a long while to me.
Anonymous487524
I started watching it expecting an crappy fanservice anime with nothing of worth, but it ended up being actually pretty fun and awesome to watch.
Anonymous487524
Anyone here seeing Keijo?
SuperMario
What's up with 3-gatsu no Lion? Delayed for a week huh?
Kaiser Eoghan
Checked out Hedeki anno's godzilla re-boot earlier out of curiousity, its a bit plodding/dull at times but sometimes its high camp value played straight is kind of funny, having godzilla evolve during the film was a cool touch and I enjoyed every scene with him and making a Godzilla film today is still very relevant. Not a patch on the old ones though.
Anonymous482380
I think that movie was just so terrible that people made it into a meme. Stuff like "The Entire Bee Movie Except Evey Time They Say 'Bee' The Movie Speeds Up"
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm sorry lmao I had to, it seemed so appropriate a moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
AidanAK47
Fun Fact: The whole Bees shouldn't be able to fly thing is a myth.
Badesh
I think that was just a dry realization...
AidanAK47
@Topgavin, It's a meme to post the entire script of the bee movie in random places?
....I don't get the joke.
Topgavin
For anyone wondering, I think anon just copy/pasted the entire script for the Bee movie. Memes are goin strong
Anonymous479946
According to all known laws
of aviation,


there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.


Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.


The bee, of course, flies anyway


because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.


Yellow, black. Yellow, black.
Yellow, black. Yellow, black.


Ooh, black and yellow!
Let's shake it up a little.


Barry! Breakfast i
Kaiser Eoghan
Actually I think it was up to about episode ten or so I saw.
Kaiser Eoghan
From what I can recall I watched legend of the galactic heroes somewhere past the part with the Caligula guy.
AidanAK47
That is one thing I wonder about the remake. How are they going to make the space battles interesting? Cause for me theres only so many times you can watch tin boxes shoot lasers and explode.
AidanAK47
I didn't like LOGH until the third episode. That's when it started to catch my attention. It also helps that I have a interest in history as the plot of LOGH practically reads like genuine history.
AidanAK47
In my case the overhype didn't kill it for me as I generally try to avoid that. When I walked into LOGH I was under the impression that it would ahve merit but not be for me. After all I heard it was mostly politics and the politics of Gundam bore me to tears. Funny enough the opposite happened. The space battles bored me but the politics got me really interested.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, The problem is that the people who say that something is the best thing they ever seen don't actually mean it. Often it's just hyperbole. When talking we other people fans tend to blow certain things out of proportion unintentionally. Overrated is likely the wrong word but you get what I mean.
leahcimali
@AidankAK47 oh and are you going to write a review about it or because psngel already wrote a review of it you are not gonna write it ?
leahcimali
the problem is trying to rank art . Even comparing a comedy show and a story focus show is clearly impossible. @AidanAK47 do you think the overhype of some hardcore logh fan killed you enjoyment of the show ? Because sometimes when you expect nothing of something you can enjoy it more than when waiting for something incredible.
leahcimali
i hear the same thing from fan of lord of the ring, star wars and game of thrones, star trek ... etc. The hardcore fan of those says that they are the greatest things in history ... but saying there are overated is discrediting the quality of those. Nothing is perfect and again maintening equal quality in a longuer running show is impossible. But having a longer story create a more rich background
LookingForKeys
@Mario Kimi no Na ha is pretty damn good. Watched it while in Japan a couple weeks back. The story has well done surprises, and on the graphics side you can *really* see Production IG worked on it.
leahcimali
I don't think saying logh is overated is a good way to say it. All media with great aclaimed critics or even highly popular show suffer from the fan reaction. If fan claim that it is the best things that they have ever saw and you don't agree, it feels overated. But this is only pure subjectivity. Saying he is greastest thing in history is a way for fan to exprim there love
AidanAK47
However it has been placed on a unreasonable pedestal that nothing could live up to. Eva is sort of in the same boat. So yes it is overrated but that does not mean it isn't great.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, if anything is claimed to be the greatest thing in the history of mankind it is overrated. The basic idea that there is a single anime out there which is fundamental and universally better than all other anime regardless of genre or intent is inherently a flawed concept. I do certainly see why LOGH is so highly acclaimed and I believe it is well worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I didn't look into the details of the new LOGH remake. I was planning on doing that when I am doing an anime season preview for it whenever it's going to air next year. For a long anime it does rate highly but even then I am not certain it really needed all 110 of those episodes.
leahcimali
about your comment are you thinking the LOGH anime is overated ? i ask Because you said that there is plenty of anime you consided better .
Anonymous476875
about the remake won't it be a straight adaptation from the manga remake by the artist that made shiki ?
Anonymous476875
AidanAK47 personally i really loved legend of the galactic heroes and it is one of the anime that make one of the biggest impact on me. I found it the best "long" anime that i ever seen (more than 24 ep). But comparing it to anime with shorter format is a bit hard. you can make something that have perfect pacing in 1h30 but it is impossible with a 110 ep anime.
AidanAK47
Either way I am pretty certain that all other isn't crap to me now seeing as I have seen the so called pinnacle. In fact There are plenty of anime I consider better that LOGH.
AidanAK47
There are aspects of its story which wouldn't really work by today's standards.
AidanAK47
And I did it. I watched legend of the galactic heroes. I have slain the white whale of anime. It certainly was interesting to say the least but I think the remake coming is going to have trouble. I am in between giving it a 8 or a 9 but it's clear that LOGH is very much a product of its time.
Kaiser Eoghan
I didn't really care for this weeks flipflappers, the fanservice and also it was even more trigger than I could take.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Gavin@Mario: I'll get round to your name someday but I think this might be my last chance with shinkai.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: That disgaea review made me nostalgic because I remember my friends and I playing it back when it first came out. We found it difficult but were amused by it/liked the characters.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Are the manga posts exclusively for series with only a few chapters translated or series that came out in the past year or so? I've been reading gunka no balthazar and enjoying it enough and think it should get recommendation out there.
Topgavin
Just booked tickets to go see it on Sunday with my little sister. Was surprisingly reluctant but I know she'll like it, I've already seen it but pumped either way.
SuperMario
Your name movie has been showed theatrically here in Aus, I'm planning to rewatch it soon in theatre and then do a review on it. Is that alright with other admins?
SuperMario
so I guess the top 6 will advance to the final are: Otabek Altin (Kazakhstan), Giacometti (Switzerland), Yuri, Yurio, JJ and Phichit? Will be very cool final event haha
SuperMario
At the very least Yuri on Ice shows me how entertaining ice skating can be
SuperMario
@K-Off: have a good trip ahead K-Off. Well, it's still better than Japan (earthquake) I guess
K-Off
Well, heading to Korea tomorrow. What a time to go. In the middle of Korea's biggest financial scandal since the 80s.
Lenlo
Is it just me, or does the Yuri on Ice opening get more colorful and detailed every week?
SuperMario
Badesh, if you like to check out their other songs, give "Tunnels of Love" and "Romeo & Juliet" a listen. Though I just discovered Telegraph Road quite recently, those 2 songs are qmong my all time favorite
SuperMario
I prefer their ealier version when the band was still together (aLCHEMY 1983), but that Rome 2005 was magnificent too. Seriously with this band diifferent live versions feel like another experience... And that song is criminally under-heard in radio too, because of its running time. A crying shame
Badesh
uhh, found it in better quality. now, THAT is a fitting present for my dad :)
Badesh
well that commentator, that sounds like he's in a soccer match, will get on my nerves though...
Badesh
if you're talking about the rome 2005 version... hell, that's some sweet music. i'll inhale that for the rest of the evening, thanks for that
SuperMario
Anyone here listen to Dire Straits? I just in the mood for their music lately. Checked out the band playing Telegraph Road live the other day on youtube and I was completely stunned.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I considered Flip Flappers 3,5,6 to be its best so far so continue on to see if Flip Flappers is your cup of tea or not
SuperMario
For me I have a lot of stuffs to catch up on this time a year, both in terms of anime and in my RL. Time goes fast as hell
Lenlo
Started watching Flip Flappers. Thought I had it figured out, then we got Mad Max going on. I may start liking it more, cause the first 2 eps didnt do much
Lenlo
Its also nearing Thanksgiving in the states and end of semester for University, so those sorts will be busier than usual.
AidanAK47
You are far too young to be reminiscing. You can build a place for a community but you can't force one to come. I for one would think it would be easier to form one if people stopped using the Anon tag. You can change your name with the customize button you know.
Anonymous469664
I remember a time when people other than site admins were regular posters. Those were the days...
AidanAK47
But I suppose watching Westworld isn't exactly a waste of time.
AidanAK47
Downside is that I really don't have a lot of time these days. It's rather annoying. The day goes by and it doesn't really feel like you did anything.
AidanAK47
On the upside, I am nearly finished Legend of the galactic heroes. So when the Remake airs next year I will have a lot to say about it.
AidanAK47
Personally I have been rather busy lately and wanted to finish off a few things. Hence why my posts have been getting later.
Total users: 18

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