Posted by psgels on 12 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Whoa, the CG Shaders have found Umineko at last. I have to say, that now that the properly shaded characters actually look pretty good. That’s the thing with Studio Deen’s graphics: it either looks really good or really bad. There’s hardly any in between.

Anyway, this episode rounds off the second part of Ange’s background. We learn that she’s not only revived Maria, but also she attempted to train as a witch, which eventually went wrong. On top of that, Maria is also revealed to be not just a witch, but also as Beatrice’s ally. Which does at the moment make no sense because I have no idea on whose side Maria truly is. If it is true that magic even existed in the first arc, it would explain her strange behavior there: she indeed was on Beatrice’s side, and merely enjoyed Beatrice’s little game a bit too much.

The question of course remains: if this is true, then what was up with her in the subsequent arcs? And I think that that’s where the real killer comes in. My guess is that as a little kid, she knew Beatrice and she really believed that whoever was behind the murders was Beatrice. This worked in the first arc because she was one of the people that the killer apparently let live (or at least, killed the last), however in the subsequent arcs (especially the third) she wasn’t as lucky and realized that someone other than Beatrice was on a killing spree.

I really suspect that Maria is able to remember every single arc. That would explain her huge change in character, and more importantly why she was able to write down every single detail about all of the arcs so far. It’s a bit of a mystery how she ended up writing about her own death, but again: at this point we have no idea exactly how much influence magic has in the real world. The witches must have been able to use illusions: otherwise people would not have been able to see them, and if magic really was the culprit then it doesn’t make any sense that it completely disappears once the magic scenes are over.

Lambdadelta comes with an interesting twist at the end, although I don’t think I fully understand it. She mentions how, when Battler wins the game he gets sent back to 1986, not 1998. However, doesn’t that mean that Ange still gets to meet her brother, only his 30-year-old version? Or did she mean that Meta-Battler gets sent back to the dimension he came from, while the other Battler simply remains dead? After all, it actually seems that Battler survived in the second arc. I’m actually pretty interested to see what happened to the Ange of that world.
Rating: * (Good)

29 Responses

  1. Deus says:

    @psgels: “Lambdadelta comes with an interesting twist at the end, although I don’t think I fully understand it. She mentions how, when Battler wins the game he gets sent back to 1986, not 1998. However, doesn’t that mean that Ange still gets to meet her brother, only his 30-year-old version?”

    It means even if Battler wins, the Ange standing right there at that moment (the one who grew up without a family) will not be able to get her family back. Solving the mystery wont undo the past. A *different* Ange may be able to grow up happily, but it won’t be her.

    For Ange, this means she’s basically fighting the fight for another another version of herself, and even if she wins she has absolutely no reward. Her family is gone whether she wins or loses.

  2. Kincaid says:

    I don’t watch this show but your mentioning the CG making the show look better made me look at the screenshots again.

    That looks like an ungodly amount of brightness/bloom o__o

  3. Westlo says:

    “After all, it actually seems that Battler survived in the second arc.”

    He got torn apart and eaten by goats IIRC, same with Kinzo.

  4. chounokoe says:

    What Lambda meant was, that the Battler of the game which is won will go home and meet his sister again…what happens to his meta-self remains unclear now.

    It is similar to what was explained in Higurashi’s Saikoroshi-hen, of course every world continues to exist and FurudeRika’s consciousness changing the fate of one(!) Furude Rika won’t change the fact that every arc we’ve seen so far leaves the characters destroyed, dead or worse.

    One additional thing that maybe was a bit hard to notice in the anime, because it was only mentioned briefly, but the content in Maria’s diary which was written by Beatrice in the scene in Kuwadorians garden is similar in handwriting to the two letters that were found and described the scenario of Episode 1 and 2…which is strange, isn’t it?

  5. soavifox says:

    Ex, thanks for the links. it was nice to see an extended version of that scene basically.

  6. Taiyaki says:

    @psgels

    “… and more importantly why she was able to write down every single detail about all of the arcs so far….”

    It was shown in this episode that Maria COULDN’T have written the bottle letters.

    The handwriting from the letters was similar to Beatrice’s handwriting (or at least, the person who wrote on Maria’s diary and referred to themselves as “Beatrice”), not Maria’s. This person basically wrote all of the letters and then signed them as “Maria Ushiromiya”.

  7. Marion says:

    It should be made clear: The only time any has EVER survived was when Eva lived in the conclusion of EP 3 and made it out alive. Otherwise no one on the island has ever made it out.

    As far as Maria knowing whatever happens I have doubts of this myself. It’s not the same as it was with Rika in Higurashi – Rika had died over hundreds of times, which is why she knew the general outcome of any situation. Just because Maria is Beatrice’s friend doesn’t mean she knows what happens, especially if you go the ‘magic isn’t the culprit’ route.

    As far as the details of each arc Maria DID NOT write those letters. Otsuki (the guy Ange talked to) recognized the handwriting to be the same as Beatrice’s signature. That means Maria’s Beatrice and the one who gave Sakutaro a ‘human’ form is the one writing down the endroll of each arc and signing it in Maria’s name.

    Lambda’s explanation of Bern’s promise is like this: If Battler wins this game (the current one) then he won’t go back to the Ange of EP 3 (“Gretel”) but rather will go back to the little 1986 Ange of EP 4. Ange (our Ange) never had a chance of getting Battler or her family to return to her, which is what Bern had basically told her what would happen. So Bern lied to Ange.

  8. Deus says:

    @ Marion

    Technically, Bernkastel didn’t lie about anything. She never promised anything in the first place (“I can’t make any promises). And as the Witch of Miracles, you could say that miracles are miracles because they *don’t* happen.

    Bern herself stated she was the “cruelest witch” the first time we see her. She’s been upfront from the start that she is *not* a nice person.

  9. Camario says:

    I don’t know about that, for me it came across as if Bernkastel had kept Ange out of the loop, but this revelation doesn’t make for a direct contradiction. In fact, in retrospect it would have made sense for Ange to reach that conclusion on her own.

    Anyway, the episode was slow and not very exciting, but I thought it was interesting enough in spite of that and the slightly confusing jump between different points in the chronology of events.

  10. Frost says:

    So they are playing with dimensions now… I can see it already, quantum physics will explain magic, that must be it -.-

  11. Marion says:

    @Deus: Very true. Still I guess Ange was just a bit shocked, because Bern told her that if she suceeded there would be a chance of her getting her family back when in reality there was NEVER a chance.

  12. soavifox says:

    I don’t think Bern lied at all. She meerly omitted part of the truth. Its true, that if battler wins, she’ll get her family back. However the her that wants her family back will no longer exist. She’d have to sacrifice herself to save herself that pain of speration.

  13. Zaric says:

    It seems like once Battler stepped off the game board and into the meta word that he became something more than human. This is clearly evidanced with his return in the second arc after getting ripped part by goats.

    I’m guessing that like Eva and Eva-Beatrice or Maria and the Witch Maria… Meta-Battler is a wizard, warlock, sorcerer, or some mythical incarnation the human form. The fact he denies magic doesn’t change the fact he’s existing in the mythic realm, as opposed to the real world.

    I’m betting if Batter did win the games once and for all that his piece in the game would live on and get off the island alive, however the meta version of him, that him that exists in the mythical realm would most likely persist in that form.

    What I figure from the ending twist is that Ange can never return to the past and become that little girl again. Even if a new time-line is created, her magical nature, being Ange-Beatrice, will simply witness the changed timeline from a third person prospective.

  14. Reltair says:

    If you stop and start thinking about it, this series can easily become very confusing. Just when I think I know what’s going on, everything changes.

  15. Viewer says:

    There’s something else about Maria; remember in the third game, when Eva-Beatrice confronts Rosa and Maria outside? Even though Rosa obviously saw Eva, Maria didn’t seem to recognise the person standing before them, even before Eva-Beatrice revealed her true form. In fact, Maria only knew that it was “Beatrice” standing before them when the witch announced her own name.

    Any theories how this could be?

  16. Deus says:

    @ Viewer:

    A few theories:

    a. “Beatrice” is the culprit. That is, the person having tea with Maria in the flashback, wrote in her diary, and gave Sakurato human form is the killer in act 3. This can be any person (a playmate, perhaps? Shannon, Jessica look suspicious). Said person may not really be magical, but Maria believes them to be. The way they were killed is false, like Beatrice and Virgilia’s fight scene, and was done via mundane means.

    b. “Beatrice” was there, but was not the culprit. Same as A, but Maria sees “Beatrice”, and is quickly killed by another person. This is symbolically supported in the fact that while Beatrice may *represent* a culprit, *Eva Beatrice* is not the one Maria is friendly with. I.e. Maria may be friendly with *a* Beatrice, and this person may be a culprit, but Eva-Beatrice is another culprit acting as Beatrice and is not “her” Beatrice. This would apply if any culprit is *symbolically* Beatrice.

    c. Don’t trust the scene. Or the scene could be a lie.

    d. The scene went exactly as it did.

  17. kettobase says:

    the message in a bottle thing seemed like a big revelation from this episode… the two messages in a bottle from 2 different arcs/games both appeared in Ange’s “real future world”

    …it makes it seem like magic is real and whats happening is exactly what the witches say-they’re playing games where they continuously repeat the events on the island in different ways… so time on the island is being repeated over and over while the outside world’s time just keeps going

  18. kettobase says:

    forgot to say… that if that were true it would also explain why Bernkastel could bring the older version of Ange into the “past”/game and would also sort of mean what Lamdadelta told Ange was just a bluff

  19. Deus says:

    Or it could mean a human culprit is imagining their murders beforehand, and the previous arcs are their “stories” of how it would go.

  20. tadam says:

    I’ve never seen a reaction from psgels in the umineko comments section :P

  21. Viewer says:

    @Dues

    It probably wasn’t Jessica or Shannon in the third game who committed the murders; while it’s used by witches, the red truth is fundamentally the closest thing we have to knowing what is actually happening on the island.

    One of the specific things that Eva-Beatrice confirmed was “Jessica Ushiromiya didn’t commit murder”, which brings us to the real kicker; Dr. Nanjo was killed at pointblank range by a person, who wasn’t Jessica or Battler, but Eva (the only person on the island who actually survived the incident) was with Battler the whole time. Obviously, drugs could have been used on Battler, but that is a somewhat abused argument as it is, isn’t it? Perhaps Eva was hypnotized, her controller using her greed and anger to make her act on his/her whims?

    And I’d like to omit what I mentioned about Maria before; she’s young, and Eva could have simply been acting strange enough for her not to recognize her aunt over the matter, or the person could have disguised themself as Eva (I’d like to point out that the marks on Maria’s neck show she was strangled with on hand, and it would have to be an adult’s too). Simply put, Rosa used Eva’s appearance, while Maria used her behavior, to try and recognize the person in the garden. Unlike in the other arcs, it’s become fairly obvious that at least one murder on the island was committed by Eva in the third game; the problem is in finding out if she did them all, which ones she did other than Battler, if any, or simply if she was acting as a puppet for the “Beatrice” entity (I don’t mean supernatural entity, I’m just using that word in place for a gender specific identifier). My theories for the scene I talked about are;

    A: “Beatrice” used Eva’s clothing in an elaborate disguise that Maria saw through while Rosa didn’t.
    B: It was actually Eva in the garden, while Hideyoshi was out smoking, drugged, or otherwise unaware of his wife’s actions.

  22. FaS says:

    :( I dropped this show due to time issues, but want to pick it back up. Judging from you getting all the way to episode 20, I suspect it’s pretty legit ;D Anyways, nice blog! I’ve been keeping up w/you since last summer. Great detailed posts. Mind if I add you to my blogroll?

  23. Deus says:

    @ Viewer:

    There’s a fundamental error, in that equating Beatrice = murderer, when in fact a character can *play* Beatrice without killing anyone at all, satisfying the red truth. As I stated, there may even be multiple Beatrice’s: “Maria’s” Beatrice, her benefactor whom she plays tea parties with, and “murderer” Beatrice, who kills everyone, or any combination in between.

    The problem with Eva as the culprit in part 3 is that she’s way too obvious. They practically spoonfed that answer to us. Which means she, as the main culprit (aside from her murder of Battler, which may have been motivated by fear, in suspecting Battler as the murderer ala “Wolf and Sheep” puzzle), is most likely wrong. Same for Rosa in part 2.

    My personal suspect? Nanjo. That is, Nanjo in collusion with a person (or persons) he previously proclaimed as “dead”. As a doctor, he’s usually the first and only person to examine the bodies, and there is no guarantee on what he says except his word. He’s *very* suspicious, in ALL arcs. Said person then kills him to keep him quiet, then simply leaves, leaving Eva to wander to Kuwadorian.

    Who’s the killer then? Somebody who we think of as dead earlier in the arc, but was never announced in red.

  24. psgels psgels says:

    tadam: lol, I just like to read the different theories that you guys are all posting. If I have any issues with them, I usually subtly include this in subsequent posts.

    FaS: sure, go ahead. :)

  25. Sacchi says:

    I and some other people discuss the episodes of Umineko on a forum. I thought you could be interested in reading my post about this episode. Check the very last part for something I noticed regarding what you said about Maria having been killed in the third game.

    Just for the note, I haven’t played the games, so if I happen to come across something that’s true, 1) Don’t tell me. 2) Don’t delete this post for spoilers, since this is only what I’ve noticed. Ok, here it goes:

    Let’s see…we now know that Beatrice’s name is Beatrice Warugiria, although I’m not sure if we already knew this, or if it serves for anything. Just wondering, do wives in Japan get the last name of their husband like in USA? ‘Cause that would mean that Beatrice was never wive of Kinzo, although the possibility of her being his secret love stands.

    Also, I didn’t quite understand something. I don’t get japanese, so please excuse me. But did the episode just reveal that the letters that were supposedly written by Maria were actually written by Beatrice’s master (totally forgot her name)? It would make sense. When the guy recognizes the letter, they clearly focus on the letter type at the end of the page. We also see that the letter at the end of the page is completely different to the one that is written in most of the page. Checking the book scene again, we clearly see that it is Beatrice who starts writing, and then Beato’s master finally writes something at the end of the page, which is what the guy in the restaurant finally notices.

    Now, there’s two possibilities. Either Maria is a nice ally of Beatrice and that explains why she wasn’t killed before, or Beato’s master is clearly trying to trick Ange and Battler with her acting as Maria. After all, we did know that it wasn’t Maria who wrote the letters and put them in the whine bottles, and we know that Beato’s master has always been an ally of Beatrice, since she helped Beato trick Battler with all the Evatrice thing. That would mean that Ange and Maria ARE indeed good friends, but the Maria and Beatrice that we saw in the “black space for witches only” were Beatrice and Beatrice’ master. Since Beatrice master clearly supports Beatrice, that’s why “Maria” says “I’ve got a power that you don’t have Ange, and that is magic.”

    My current theory is that in this episode we saw both the real Maria witch and the false Maria. False Maria in the whole “black space” scene, true Maria in helping Ange get better with her powers by calling the 7 sisters. Still not sure about the Maria in the tea party in secret garden, ’cause that was just weird. For one side, you’ve got that whatever happened there clearly was written on Maria’s diary. On the other hand, it could have just been a trick, or possibly Maria met the true Beatrice, the one that we were shown that fell off a cliff and died.

    Or, assuming that witches don’t exist at all, we send this episode to a very, very far away corner in our minds and ignore it :D

    EDIT: Quit the censoring! I freaking want to see halloween sweets in people’s stomaches xD

    EDIT2: Ok, just thought of something. First, I started thinking why Maria got killed in the third game “peacefully” by Beatrice. Then, I realized that all that was a freaking illusion. And then, I realized that 3 games have happened so far, yet there are only 2 letters describing the events of the third game…

  26. ebisu says:

    Well i think here starts to play the two basic or usual time theories, usually incompatible with each other. One is that everything you change in the past will affect your future and actually change your present, and the other is that changing the past will create a parallel dimension where events go a different way, but it won’t affect your present.
    And so the bottles are fact that there is going on a change on the present that results in a different order of the events later. So my guess is that Lamba is lying like a witch(she says the most convenient truth for her) and Ange has still the chance now that she is out of the chessboard.

    Also about Maria, the events in this fourth arc seems to have changed because of Kawamura/Virgilia awakening in the third arc. Warugiria is awakened since the start of this story now so it is natural that magical events, like Sakutarou and Maria’s, happen in a different order.
    For my theory, now we know that everything that happens in a chessboard will have consequences in the next one, even if you reset the game. That explains why the killers change maybe. And just to say, if Battler wins Ange could end in her body of 6 years knowing all about the witches and enjoying her happy ending.

    Finally, Kinzo has died all 3 times being burnt to death so he might have been really dead since the beggining, though his fucking ring is the clue to resolve a lot of the murders. Note also, the writing of the two letters is the same so the job’s done by the same person. So if it is not Maria the writer then one assassin in first and two arcs is the same person and survives till the end.

  27. Lloyd says:

    Hey, Long time reader First time poster. Can I just say that this blog is what keeps me coming back to Battler and his one sided war against magic? You really help clarifiy points I might have missed.

    And speaking of which:

    Remember everyone, according to battler’s theory in the last arc, one of the six people who died in the key switching locked rooms on the first twilight was the killer too. There may have been two killers in the last Arc. (Which may even be the one who was responsible for George and his dad’s death, if Eva was his/her accomplice.)

    Wait… sudden thought… Did beato say in red text that each one of the twilight deaths were actually.. you know… dead?

  28. Deus says:

    @ Lloyd:

    Yes, all characters killed in the first twilight were stated dead in red.

    What *does* raise red flags, however, is the failure to state Kyrie, Rudolph and Hideyoshi dead (Ronove starts, but never finishes). So a case can be made that an original murderer started out with the usual “kill 6 people plan” as per the first 2 arcs, screwed up along the way and got themselves killed, and one of those 3 people not stated in red (plus or minus a few accomplices) took up the slack in murdering for the rest of the arc.

    What’s more, if we take magical events as symbolic of events as they happen in reality, only distorted, then it makes even more sense. Beatrice effectively gives up an active role in events after the first twilight (the original killer taken out of the equation), and replaced with *another* magical representation: Eva Beatrice, symbolizing another individual or set of individuals carrying out the murders.

    This “murderer set 2” may be *triggered* by “murderer set 1”, but is not related to it otherwise.

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Vonter
I watched some episodes of KonoSuba yesterday, reminds me of Those Who Hunt Elves. And I suppose it might be an easy recommendation because it mainly comes down to; do you find it funny? or fun? If not, skip.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While yes its true of watching those slice of life shows week by week is better, I felt that when reading the manga for Aria it was easier to marathon by reading it rather than watching.
SuperMario
Flying witch have the same atmosphere, but it's a purely slice of life anime. I love Aria too and I agree that watching it 1 episode a time is the best way to enjoy it. Can't think of other serious anime that have those calming elements for now
Anonymous1042537
Yeah, I noticed they all have pretty different structures from one another (ACCA's political, Mushishi's naturalistic, Monster is a thriller, Rakugo's about a specific art form, 3-gatsu is ostensibly about Shogi, etc.) but I found that I found some similar calming elements in them (to different degrees of course).
Anonymous1042537
Thanks, I'll definitely check Aria out!
AidanAK47
One of the hardest shows to marathon besides Bakemonogatari. Though Bakomono gave me a headache after a few episodes whereas Aria just had me so mellow that I could drift into sleep at any second.
AidanAK47
Don't know if you could call it a sub genre as the examples you listed are all really different from each other.
Though in the vein of calming shows I think you can add the Aria series to the list. That show is so relaxing that you find yourself nodding off to it. Not out of boredom but it just has that effect on you.
Anonymous1042537
Do you guys know if there's a specific subgenre like this, or am I making it up? And are there other anime with that kind of feel. Not exactly slice of life, but in the general vicinity of it.
Anonymous1042537
The Great Passage was another great example. It delved into the seemingly boring subject matter of dictionary-making, but it was a surprisingly charming show. 3-Gatsu no Lion also looks promising, I enjoyed a lot of the first season (but wasn't a fan of the forced comedy sometimes).
Anonymous1042537
Like the episode where Tenma first meets Grimmer on the train to Prague and they have a picnic on the mountain was so dang good. I really need to rewatch that.
Anonymous1042537
There are some elements of that style in other shows too, but to a lesser extent. Like some parts of Rakguo (mainly season 1) was very soothing. Naoki Urasawa's Monster had some fantastic, almost melancholic episodes like this.
Anonymous1042537
It seems that most anime w/ that kind of style usually also have another genre mixed in. Mushishi was also very naturalistic, ACCA had a political underpinning.
Anonymous1042537
It's sort of in the vein of a "Mushishi" style show. I suspect it's an emerging subgenre of slice of life that's meant to be very calming, relaxing, atmospheric which I really am digging.
Anonymous1042537
I really hope there are more shows like it; not that it was perfect, but it was certainly unique and hit a lot more than it missed. I really like those cool, quiet shows you can enjoy with a nice cup of tea before you go to sleep.
Anonymous1042537
Ironically though, I would say that the first half of ACCA (up until the big flashback) is better enjoyed week by week, or at least that's what I found.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It felt good marathoning a show again rather than waiting week by week and next weekend I'll probably marathon house of five leaves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Forgot to mention...there were certainly a share of moments in Acca that feel fanservish to the female audience =P
SuperMario
@Aidan: haven't noticed that. Will fix it soon.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Only problem I can see is that the posts have no spaces in between paragraphs.
SuperMario
... to be near my laptop for an entire week. First time that I had to blog entirely through my phone. Seemed to work out fine but I had to borrow screenshots from other source (I thank you that other source) ^^
SuperMario
*unless* rather than *as long as*. This has been a crazy week for me as I didn't have a chance
SuperMario
@anon1039488: I find the idea of limiting excess to exclusively stream an aime is a dumb idea; because as long as people have a chance to expose to the anime they won't really care to check it out. So I detest owning the legal streaming account, but I always pay back by buying DVDs/Blurays that I liked
SuperMario
I watched House of Five Leaves by the same mangaka and I really enjoyed it. Nataume Ono is a pretty excelent storyteller (a bit mixed on her art-style thou)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I agree that the first dew episodes of ACCA were not that engaging but the endingg neatly tied up all loose ends. I still feel Grossular's act is kind of messy (why was he under such control from Lilium? He's not that kind to be in such passive role to be honest) but other than those I don't have any real complaints.
Anonymous1039488
Competition is good, but it makes it cost so much to legally watch everything. That's why a lot of people pirate I feel.
Anonymous1039488
You have Crunchryoll and Funi, fine. Then there's Daisuki which is kinda random. Then Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu all have some random anime, though it seems that mainly Amazon has current series
Anonymous1039488
I don't have Amazon Strike, which is like their new venture into anime I guess. There's too many streaming services to keep up with tbh
Kaiser-Eoghan
To be honest I'm pretty crap when it comes to supporting things, I don't pay for almost all the things I watch/read/play, I don't have a crunchy or amazon account, I still pirate legal streams.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Is it a case that your country is blocked? Maybe go for a vpn? If you absolutely have to you could pirate the show...
Anonymous1039488
I wanna watch Re:Creators but don't have Amazon... :( alas
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel like I need to wait and see approach with sekaisuru Kado...this prologue phase is...long...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wish it had been 24 episodes long though to better organize itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Favourite characters were Jean, Groslur and Nino.
Can’t say I cared for the goofy interactions between Jean’s workfriends though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet for whatever I could say about the pacing, when the twists happen they creep up on you and the show mostly lands every one of them, even if I’m not exactly pleased that sometimes the series does the “I pulled it out of the hat/ass” approach.
I’m relatively indifferent on the art/animation.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did feel it picks up, improves by the mid-mark and to an extent the wait is worth it and things do come together even if I wasn’t always totally confidant with how it was getting there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Having the protagonist go from district to district to flesh out the settings a decent enough idea and the main characters a fairly chill, cool guy.
Though the dialogue does create suspicion, intrigue, it does also plod/pad in equal measure at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Finally decided to sit down and watch Acca.
This show had its lovers/haters I’m sure, having watched it my feelings are mixed.
It is a slight breath of fresh air I’ll give it that and makes me want to maybe re-assess of adaptations of the author’s work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The only assayas film I've encountered so far that I disliked was Irma Vep, even though the lead actress was great, the surrounding performances, especially by Jean-Pierre-Lenaud were awful. Sils Maria I was initially evasive of because I'd heard that the relationship between Binoche and Stewarts characters was under-unexplored.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Weersathakul's films are something else entirely...Otherworldly yet still cinematic. I feel a bit underwhelmed after watching the Unknown girl. The identity of the culprit, for example, feel forced for me that take me out our their naturalistic style. I'mmin between Clouds of sils maria too, know it's a good movie but it feels pretentous at times, like the movie Youth
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also got round to watching Unknown girl by Dardenne, it carries enough moments of their brilliance but I felt they didn’t have as much mastery over their usual pacing style this time round, for the first time it felt like a thriller that played out like a drama, rather than a drama that has a pseudo thriller feel to it.
Going to watch Clouds of sils Maria next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The entire second half, which I’d have watched an entire film about is very atmospheric and dreamy/esoteric nearing just exactly the kind of thing I like.
The way he uses/shoots Thailands geography along with his cinematography is impressive, particularly in that second half.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: He shoots something simple like a chopping scene in a strangely engaging way, the scene with the old woman going into the cave is also very impressively shot and that one driving scenes with that pop song in the background has an airy feel to it.
In some ways I agree that there’s a bit of sensuality to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It’s the kind of film that feeling tired/relaxed when watching it isn’t a condemnation of it(although a share of moments in the first half could be patience testing), it’s the sort of film where you aren’t really aware of anything outside of watching the film when you watch it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally looked into a Weersathakul film, Tropical Malady. I don’t even know how to give a star rating for this film.
SuperMario
I'm still on the fence with Alice & Zouroku. Like the title suggests, the warm chemistry between those two are its strongest point, but those moments are far and few in between as the story progresses and I don't care one bit about the Red Queen storyline. I might drop this one if the story doesn't improve
SuperMario
@Lenlo: 3 episodes anf Berserk still hasn't grabbed me as much. Yep facial expressions are really off-putting
Lenlo
Man... the facial expression in Berserk for the 3D models are, ever so slowly, killing me.
AidanAK47
Alright. Tommarrow I will get out all those posts I am late on seeing as the impressions are all finished.
AidanAK47
SukaSuka still has me mixed. On one hand there really are some great ideas and some well executed moments. But some of the dialogue is a bit typical of a light novel and the fanservice is really shameless. The massage at the end of the episode was something the show could really do without.
Konstantinos Travlos
I am in love with RE:Creators. I have no idea if they will keep it as good, but these two first episodes did all the right things.
AidanAK47
Alright, Easter made me lazy so it's time to play catch up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Puran: Or even Georgiou Nikolaidis while I'm at it, morning patrol is a great mood piece. Not familiar with the other guy.
Puran
@Kaiser: No Grammatikos recommendation? :)
SuperMario
I still enjoy Zero pretty much. I like the contrast between the beastfallen and Zero. The hilarious lines sound more like accidental to me, not the best product but I enjoy the ride so far
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree with everything you said. Apparently Haneke put Flashmob on hold because the main actress was conflicting in her schedule, so he decided to do Happy End instead
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Does the old man represent gritty anime of old? I don't know honestly I'm just throwing it out there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: In case you hadn't heard, Haneke dropped the Flashmob movie and is now doing one about the refugee crisis.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To whoever will be playing Godard in that biopic, I'd wonder if they could capture how incredibly douchey he sounds irl lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: There is such a big divide between 50s/60s Bresson and 70s/80s Bresson.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lathimos and Avaranas remind me in an odd way of Tarr in that they're the only Greek filmakers people seem to talk about , Check out Koundorous and Theodorous Angelopolous' works if you can.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Meh, I don't like that sort of overly on the nose social commentary some American films and tv shows do in recent years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Godards extremely hit or miss with me. Hazanavicius did the artist I think, but I'd sooner recommend Biancnieves as a stronger example of a modern take on silent cinema or maybe a Guy Maddin film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lotznitza directed a gentle creature not Zvyagintsev, though the latter is a fantastic director, Leviathan's ending hit me very very hard, its gut punching and I appreciated that the return never went into too much detail regarding the father.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: off topic, I didn't realize Get Out having such buzz reception. It's coming here next week so I will get to watch it
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Michel Hazanavicius makes a biopic about Jean-Luc Godard and Anne Wiazemsky (the actress in Au Hasard Balthazard), which I think will be interesting. I considered The Lobster one of the best film out of that year so I anticipate his next movie a hell lot. Yep, I watched few movies from Andrey Zvyagintsev and he certainly is in my radar. Bleak, social commentary, technical impressive
AidanAK47
Oh, it's confirmed that was what was actually said in Japanese. Well...that's rather cringe worthy.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Can't say I am too fond of it myself. Though that arrow to the knee reference definitely sounds like something the translator added in.
Anonymous1026829
Holy shit Zero is hilarious. "I used to be a mercenary like you once. But then I took an arrow to the knee." "My magic is super weak so I need a powerful offering. Can you loan me your head please?" The comedy is so pointed and understated.
Vonter
I do like how contrasting Zelda is to Nier in the sense that. Zelda cares more about how the game plays and making the player have fun constantly but doesn't care about telling something. Nier Automata doesn't care what it throws to the player but cares a lot about it tells the things that happen to player.
Vonter
I think this is a hard game to score. Mainly because IMO the combat has wear out a bit do to the repetition and the sidequests have been a mixed bag with some being relevant to the plot or themes and some being just fodder to level up. On the other hand the game has a lot of implications, subtext and symbolism that so far has been enriching to reflect upon.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, Actually wrote up 4/5s of a review on Nier Automata but with the new season I haven't had time to finish writing the review. Though my thoughts on it are similar to yours.
Vonter
Nier Automata has a 10+ hour prologue. So far the game feels like it's more interested in delivering strong emotions than a compelling narrative, not that script is poor but seems disjointed in a way, circling around the themes of existentialism, purpose and truth without overexpositing about these things. It also some moments remind me of Fragile Dreams. Like the despair.
AidanAK47
The old man is the one I can't pin down. Been thinking he might represent the kind of anime that's critically lauded but sadly unpopular. Makes sense as he's one of the few on the opening that doesn't stand near ads for his anime. Or else he's a live action drama representative.
AidanAK47
Been wondering about the Re:Creators characters. We got the obvious representatives from Magical girl, Mecha, Light novel and video game. The knight girl looks like clear homage to Saber from Fate so a Visual novel representive? The psycho girl looks to be a chunni anime representative. And the guy who appeared at the end of ep 2 is clearly Shounen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Ramsay one sticks out as the most interesting to me as does the lathimos one. I'm curious about that Russian one about the woman looking for her imprisoned husband as I'd like to watch more contempory Russian films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: If you can get passed the accents Ramsay did a strong piece of social realism in the 90s called Ratcatcher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I think the only Baumbach film I've seen is Frances Ha and I liked the new wavey feel it had. With The lobster and re-watching dogtooth I was able to get into Lathimos' pitch black humour alot more. I've never actually seen a hong-sang so film.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I still really enjoy it but I do get what you mean. Looking at the series overall so far it does feel like there was lost potential.
Amagi
I honestly still don't know what to think of LWA. I wasn't a fan of the formularic first half but the second half doesn't really catch me either. I loved the first OVA though.
AidanAK47
Well I will be damned. That G Koh commenter managed to predict the inclusion of Yggdrasil in Little Witch Academia. Nicely done.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: sadly i won't make it this year. I wanna try the Toronto International Film Fest next time whenever I have a chance
SuperMario
@Kaiser:you heard about this year's Cannes selection?Overall it's solid, not many that scream "masterpiece" for me.Overall I'm exciting for Hong Sang Soo's new movies (he has 2 movies screening at Cannes and 1 already aired at Berlin.What the hell),and The Killing of the Scared Deer(Yorgos Lnthimos), You were never really here (Lynne Ramsay),Okja(Bong Joon Ho) and Meyerowitz Stories(Noah Baubach)
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm...just found out That Blame! 2017 is being done by a the Ajin director, not sure how I felt about that.
AidanAK47
Think this is the best time to end the series too as the difficultly was getting to be a bit too cheap.
AidanAK47
Lore wise it's pretty disappointing. Ending the game with an enemy that doesn't really have that much relevance. But Gameplay wise it was excellent. The final area was just beautiful.
Lenlo
Ringed City was a great piece of DLC and a good way to end the series imo.
AidanAK47
Dark souls sure can give you workout. Finally got around to finishing the ringed city DLC. Funny thing is that people were raving about how hard Midir was when I didn't have that much trouble with him. Gaol gave me some trouble but I managed it. Hardest was the demon prince and god I hate multi stage boss fights. Such a goddamn pain.
SuperMario
Atom still waiting for suitable subs. I swear to God, for a completist like myself the wait is unbearable, especially it should've been available already
HelghastKillzone
Yes it is.
Anonymous1020539
I mean...
Anonymous1020539
Re:producers is really great
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I can see myself chancing more of it, I kind of caught into its rhythm a bit.
AidanAK47
Novels are actually really short. About 90 pages long per volume. They really could cover this in a single cour.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, SukaSuka? From what I could tell it covered the first two chapters of the light novel. Each novel has 5 chapters. Though the first and last chapter are more of a prologue and epilogue respectively.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually if shuumatsu's first episode is going faster than the novel, roughly how much so? Its still obviously a slow burn in animated format but how much was covered in episode 1?
AidanAK47
Could have done without the huge infodump but otherwise still loving Re:Creators. Seeing a magical girl shocked over her own level of destructive power was great.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, I liked the use of music early on in shuumatsu and theres a good mood set up early on along with a good opening scene but the later parts of the episode except maybe for the after credits bit get a shrug from me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Kado has made its hook, now it needs not to keep holding its cards and get going.
SuperMario
hmmm, don't know what to think about Kado ep2. Still good but I expected more
SuperMario
But really my mentality is that this site comes first. Getting more traffic and improve the site are my top priorities, then "what I wanna do for myself" comes later
SuperMario
@Travlos: guess you won't have to read me this season :). Haven't checked out the last episode of Kado yet but based from the first 2 episodes I think you'd enjoy that show.
Don’t worry. It’s something Aidan and me both agree on. We pretty much write for ourselves, otherwise we couldn’t have stayed this long. I get a chance to go off track once in a while to write something I wanna write.
Konstantinos Travlos
@SuperMario. I am definitely watching Shingeki no Koyjin 2, Shingeki no Bahamut 2, Re:Creators, Little Witch Academia, and probably Kado and Zero Kara. I may also do Zipang this season.
On the reaction reaction. What you say is ok. But remember, a hobby is something you do for yourself. There is a limit to how much you should care about the views of others. :)
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Or if I can use a quote from Chang from Black lagoon : "A fragranced shit will forever still retain the smell of shit"
Lenlo
As most likely the biggest Berserk fan in this chatbox, its better but that doesnt make it good. Spraying fabreeze on crap doesnt make it any more appealing. Yet I will watch it anyways.
Anonymous1018231
You don't even know
Anonymous1018231
Lies Aidan it is soooo much better
Anonymous1017807
Tbh I'm enjoying Alice to Zouroku so much simply because I identify with the old guy's no-nonsense attitude. It's fun to see the annoying loli get put in her place. X.D
AidanAK47
Anyway Bam is supposed to be covering it. Seeing as he covered the first season.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I watched the first episode of the second season. Better? Yes, but only slightly.. It has all the same problems as the first season.
Anonymous1017501
and nobody's covering it lol
Anonymous1017501
Like dramatically
Anonymous1017501
It really is much better
Anonymous1017501
You know guys its not too late to start watching Berserk Season 2...
AidanAK47
I just get annoyed when interaction is like "HUMAN, YOUR EMOTION RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT. I THEORIZE THIS IS THE REASON YOUR EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT."
Their is a definite layer of pretentiousness in how it's written, seeing how nobody gets annoyed when every character tries to psychological profile them.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I have heard word that these two episodes were a prologue story and the real story is going to kick into gear next episode. But if the characters keep talking like this then it's not going to matter what happens. It will just be terrible.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Jojo part 5 died for this. That makes it all the sadder. Plus it's two cour so this show is gonna be on for half a year.
SuperMario
Being said all that I will follow it for 1 more episode
SuperMario
And then that girl who passed away because of the reset. I feel my emotions drying up at that point. Tasteless. Heartless
SuperMario
Wanna say the same thing regarding Sagrada Reset as well. I have the feeling the show tries to sound smart that ultimately if I hear someone talks like this in real life, I would go punch his face. Manipulating the social worker by slitting your own wrist? WHAT? Asking a girl about her rules, then whenever she answers you give your own warped opinions on it to sound like you know it all? WHAT
Anonymous1016169
@Aidan: Lol, Sagrada reminds me of how I used to write. Pretentious, overly complex dialogue that nobody would use in real life unless they were trying too hard. It grits on my ears so much that I don't think I can keep watching it, especially because this is probably how it's going to be for the whole series.
Anonymous1016169
@Amagi: I feel your pain. I used to enjoy those types of shows, but I've found more and more since getting out of high school that they just make me want to take a nap. It doesn't help that they're everywhere. X.D
AidanAK47
God Sagrada Reset is frustrating. So many good ideas, all absolutely ruined by the dialogue and characters. If you just changed the dialogue a bit and made the characters emote more then this would be so very interesting. But they manage to drain the life out of the story.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, in most cases you can easily write off the ones not worth your time based on the summery. Occasional those kinds of show can turn out to be worth watching but it just doesn't happen often enough.
Amagi
Nothing against those types of anime in general, but it's just not aimed at me I guess. - I also should specify: school (semi)harem, not school alone. I enjoy Tsuki ga Kirei.
Amagi
I really love this season but I should stop testing the school- and shoujo stuff. It's almost never worth the time and it always bores me so much that I have to stop watching anime for a few hours.
Anonymous1016169
@Travlos: Why does a hobbyist artist care when someone critiques their art or a fanfic writer care about reader feedback? When you do something you enjoy, it's normal to want to improve and other people's opinions are important for that.
SuperMario
@Travlos: because 1) We still need to listen to what readers say to improve and 2) we're debating more about rating system, which I also feel the need of upgrading. btw, any shows that catch your interests so far this season?
Konstantinos Travlos
Why do you guys care about what someone thinks about your reviews? You are doing a good enough thing as is, and t is a hobby. Do your thing and do not lose time on this.
Anonymous1015915
I think I'm just gonna follow sukasuka and re:creators this season. Seem to of shown the most potential universally.
Anonymous1015442
Soy and almond milk are also available as alternatives for the lactose intolerant.
Anonymous1015442
From the manga it seems like it would translate well into an anime with the right production values so I think I'm going to try it. I was mostly concerned that they'd push the melodrama even more through the roof, haha. I did see some of the reviews on it here and they made me hopeful that it was fairly well-executed.And of course the milk can be chocolate. Just not vanilla, vanilla milk is yuck i
Lenlo
Its certainly making me happy I waited until the end of the season to binge it.
SuperMario
I'd have the milk as well... Need more milk to my life.
SuperMario
Hope Scum's Wish entertains you, Lenlo. ^^
Lenlo
I will say the sound design has been great for Scums Wish though I have not read the manga to see how it matches up
Lenlo
I dont think "enjoyed" is the right word for this kind of show, but I do know im going to finish it.

Also, can the milk be chocolate?
Anonymous1015350
@Lenlo: That's true, but I also feel like everyone here needs some milk. And I've been reading the Scum's Wish manga and can't decide if it'll be worth it to watch the anime.
Lenlo
Scums Wish, 4 episodes in, has been the perfect little dose of depression I crave from each anime season.
Lenlo
I have to say, its a pretty fun break from super srs anime discussion sometimes
Anonymous1014938
There's so much sass in this chatbox sometimes I can't even. :.D
AidanAK47
Also please note that if data gathering results do not support your hypothesis that there will be no refunds
AidanAK47
I will have you know my data gathering services are quite expensive and I don't operate until paid.
Anonymous1014125
Aidan is providing the data for us.
Lenlo
You do know that for the scientific method, you make a hypothesis and then you run experiments to produce data to prove or disprove said hypothesis. It cant just sit in limbo and then you go "I was right". You have to provide data at some point. At this point, you have yet to provide any data to support what you say.
Sir Robin
You seem to have never heard of the scientific method then Aidan. You don't need proof before you formulate an hypothesis. Fortunately this most recent development of you being wrong supports it.
AidanAK47
I am sure Sir Robin would be delighted to hear this but I think I was wrong in my assessment of SukaSuka(Shūmatsu Nani Shitemasu ka? Isogashii Desu ka? Sukutte Moratte Ii Desu ka?) That insert song at the begining of the episode was masterful and a number of things have changed my mind about it. It may be more interesting than I first expected. First novel was still pretty boring though.
AidanAK47
Should have another impressions post up today. As for what I am covering that's Little Witch Academia, Attack on Titan and Sekaisuru Kado.
AidanAK47
At least we never have to fight tooth and nail to cover something as what we want to cover never clashes.
SuperMario
Which mean 2 PA Works, 2 original shows and 3 slice-of-life shows. Well done Mario for being predictable and consistently boring as ever
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