Posted by psgels on 12 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Whoa, the CG Shaders have found Umineko at last. I have to say, that now that the properly shaded characters actually look pretty good. That’s the thing with Studio Deen’s graphics: it either looks really good or really bad. There’s hardly any in between.

Anyway, this episode rounds off the second part of Ange’s background. We learn that she’s not only revived Maria, but also she attempted to train as a witch, which eventually went wrong. On top of that, Maria is also revealed to be not just a witch, but also as Beatrice’s ally. Which does at the moment make no sense because I have no idea on whose side Maria truly is. If it is true that magic even existed in the first arc, it would explain her strange behavior there: she indeed was on Beatrice’s side, and merely enjoyed Beatrice’s little game a bit too much.

The question of course remains: if this is true, then what was up with her in the subsequent arcs? And I think that that’s where the real killer comes in. My guess is that as a little kid, she knew Beatrice and she really believed that whoever was behind the murders was Beatrice. This worked in the first arc because she was one of the people that the killer apparently let live (or at least, killed the last), however in the subsequent arcs (especially the third) she wasn’t as lucky and realized that someone other than Beatrice was on a killing spree.

I really suspect that Maria is able to remember every single arc. That would explain her huge change in character, and more importantly why she was able to write down every single detail about all of the arcs so far. It’s a bit of a mystery how she ended up writing about her own death, but again: at this point we have no idea exactly how much influence magic has in the real world. The witches must have been able to use illusions: otherwise people would not have been able to see them, and if magic really was the culprit then it doesn’t make any sense that it completely disappears once the magic scenes are over.

Lambdadelta comes with an interesting twist at the end, although I don’t think I fully understand it. She mentions how, when Battler wins the game he gets sent back to 1986, not 1998. However, doesn’t that mean that Ange still gets to meet her brother, only his 30-year-old version? Or did she mean that Meta-Battler gets sent back to the dimension he came from, while the other Battler simply remains dead? After all, it actually seems that Battler survived in the second arc. I’m actually pretty interested to see what happened to the Ange of that world.
Rating: * (Good)

29 Responses

  1. Deus says:

    @psgels: “Lambdadelta comes with an interesting twist at the end, although I don’t think I fully understand it. She mentions how, when Battler wins the game he gets sent back to 1986, not 1998. However, doesn’t that mean that Ange still gets to meet her brother, only his 30-year-old version?”

    It means even if Battler wins, the Ange standing right there at that moment (the one who grew up without a family) will not be able to get her family back. Solving the mystery wont undo the past. A *different* Ange may be able to grow up happily, but it won’t be her.

    For Ange, this means she’s basically fighting the fight for another another version of herself, and even if she wins she has absolutely no reward. Her family is gone whether she wins or loses.

  2. Kincaid says:

    I don’t watch this show but your mentioning the CG making the show look better made me look at the screenshots again.

    That looks like an ungodly amount of brightness/bloom o__o

  3. Westlo says:

    “After all, it actually seems that Battler survived in the second arc.”

    He got torn apart and eaten by goats IIRC, same with Kinzo.

  4. chounokoe says:

    What Lambda meant was, that the Battler of the game which is won will go home and meet his sister again…what happens to his meta-self remains unclear now.

    It is similar to what was explained in Higurashi’s Saikoroshi-hen, of course every world continues to exist and FurudeRika’s consciousness changing the fate of one(!) Furude Rika won’t change the fact that every arc we’ve seen so far leaves the characters destroyed, dead or worse.

    One additional thing that maybe was a bit hard to notice in the anime, because it was only mentioned briefly, but the content in Maria’s diary which was written by Beatrice in the scene in Kuwadorians garden is similar in handwriting to the two letters that were found and described the scenario of Episode 1 and 2…which is strange, isn’t it?

  5. soavifox says:

    Ex, thanks for the links. it was nice to see an extended version of that scene basically.

  6. Taiyaki says:

    @psgels

    “… and more importantly why she was able to write down every single detail about all of the arcs so far….”

    It was shown in this episode that Maria COULDN’T have written the bottle letters.

    The handwriting from the letters was similar to Beatrice’s handwriting (or at least, the person who wrote on Maria’s diary and referred to themselves as “Beatrice”), not Maria’s. This person basically wrote all of the letters and then signed them as “Maria Ushiromiya”.

  7. Marion says:

    It should be made clear: The only time any has EVER survived was when Eva lived in the conclusion of EP 3 and made it out alive. Otherwise no one on the island has ever made it out.

    As far as Maria knowing whatever happens I have doubts of this myself. It’s not the same as it was with Rika in Higurashi – Rika had died over hundreds of times, which is why she knew the general outcome of any situation. Just because Maria is Beatrice’s friend doesn’t mean she knows what happens, especially if you go the ‘magic isn’t the culprit’ route.

    As far as the details of each arc Maria DID NOT write those letters. Otsuki (the guy Ange talked to) recognized the handwriting to be the same as Beatrice’s signature. That means Maria’s Beatrice and the one who gave Sakutaro a ‘human’ form is the one writing down the endroll of each arc and signing it in Maria’s name.

    Lambda’s explanation of Bern’s promise is like this: If Battler wins this game (the current one) then he won’t go back to the Ange of EP 3 (“Gretel”) but rather will go back to the little 1986 Ange of EP 4. Ange (our Ange) never had a chance of getting Battler or her family to return to her, which is what Bern had basically told her what would happen. So Bern lied to Ange.

  8. Deus says:

    @ Marion

    Technically, Bernkastel didn’t lie about anything. She never promised anything in the first place (“I can’t make any promises). And as the Witch of Miracles, you could say that miracles are miracles because they *don’t* happen.

    Bern herself stated she was the “cruelest witch” the first time we see her. She’s been upfront from the start that she is *not* a nice person.

  9. Camario says:

    I don’t know about that, for me it came across as if Bernkastel had kept Ange out of the loop, but this revelation doesn’t make for a direct contradiction. In fact, in retrospect it would have made sense for Ange to reach that conclusion on her own.

    Anyway, the episode was slow and not very exciting, but I thought it was interesting enough in spite of that and the slightly confusing jump between different points in the chronology of events.

  10. Frost says:

    So they are playing with dimensions now… I can see it already, quantum physics will explain magic, that must be it -.-

  11. Marion says:

    @Deus: Very true. Still I guess Ange was just a bit shocked, because Bern told her that if she suceeded there would be a chance of her getting her family back when in reality there was NEVER a chance.

  12. soavifox says:

    I don’t think Bern lied at all. She meerly omitted part of the truth. Its true, that if battler wins, she’ll get her family back. However the her that wants her family back will no longer exist. She’d have to sacrifice herself to save herself that pain of speration.

  13. Zaric says:

    It seems like once Battler stepped off the game board and into the meta word that he became something more than human. This is clearly evidanced with his return in the second arc after getting ripped part by goats.

    I’m guessing that like Eva and Eva-Beatrice or Maria and the Witch Maria… Meta-Battler is a wizard, warlock, sorcerer, or some mythical incarnation the human form. The fact he denies magic doesn’t change the fact he’s existing in the mythic realm, as opposed to the real world.

    I’m betting if Batter did win the games once and for all that his piece in the game would live on and get off the island alive, however the meta version of him, that him that exists in the mythical realm would most likely persist in that form.

    What I figure from the ending twist is that Ange can never return to the past and become that little girl again. Even if a new time-line is created, her magical nature, being Ange-Beatrice, will simply witness the changed timeline from a third person prospective.

  14. Reltair says:

    If you stop and start thinking about it, this series can easily become very confusing. Just when I think I know what’s going on, everything changes.

  15. Viewer says:

    There’s something else about Maria; remember in the third game, when Eva-Beatrice confronts Rosa and Maria outside? Even though Rosa obviously saw Eva, Maria didn’t seem to recognise the person standing before them, even before Eva-Beatrice revealed her true form. In fact, Maria only knew that it was “Beatrice” standing before them when the witch announced her own name.

    Any theories how this could be?

  16. Deus says:

    @ Viewer:

    A few theories:

    a. “Beatrice” is the culprit. That is, the person having tea with Maria in the flashback, wrote in her diary, and gave Sakurato human form is the killer in act 3. This can be any person (a playmate, perhaps? Shannon, Jessica look suspicious). Said person may not really be magical, but Maria believes them to be. The way they were killed is false, like Beatrice and Virgilia’s fight scene, and was done via mundane means.

    b. “Beatrice” was there, but was not the culprit. Same as A, but Maria sees “Beatrice”, and is quickly killed by another person. This is symbolically supported in the fact that while Beatrice may *represent* a culprit, *Eva Beatrice* is not the one Maria is friendly with. I.e. Maria may be friendly with *a* Beatrice, and this person may be a culprit, but Eva-Beatrice is another culprit acting as Beatrice and is not “her” Beatrice. This would apply if any culprit is *symbolically* Beatrice.

    c. Don’t trust the scene. Or the scene could be a lie.

    d. The scene went exactly as it did.

  17. kettobase says:

    the message in a bottle thing seemed like a big revelation from this episode… the two messages in a bottle from 2 different arcs/games both appeared in Ange’s “real future world”

    …it makes it seem like magic is real and whats happening is exactly what the witches say-they’re playing games where they continuously repeat the events on the island in different ways… so time on the island is being repeated over and over while the outside world’s time just keeps going

  18. kettobase says:

    forgot to say… that if that were true it would also explain why Bernkastel could bring the older version of Ange into the “past”/game and would also sort of mean what Lamdadelta told Ange was just a bluff

  19. Deus says:

    Or it could mean a human culprit is imagining their murders beforehand, and the previous arcs are their “stories” of how it would go.

  20. tadam says:

    I’ve never seen a reaction from psgels in the umineko comments section :P

  21. Viewer says:

    @Dues

    It probably wasn’t Jessica or Shannon in the third game who committed the murders; while it’s used by witches, the red truth is fundamentally the closest thing we have to knowing what is actually happening on the island.

    One of the specific things that Eva-Beatrice confirmed was “Jessica Ushiromiya didn’t commit murder”, which brings us to the real kicker; Dr. Nanjo was killed at pointblank range by a person, who wasn’t Jessica or Battler, but Eva (the only person on the island who actually survived the incident) was with Battler the whole time. Obviously, drugs could have been used on Battler, but that is a somewhat abused argument as it is, isn’t it? Perhaps Eva was hypnotized, her controller using her greed and anger to make her act on his/her whims?

    And I’d like to omit what I mentioned about Maria before; she’s young, and Eva could have simply been acting strange enough for her not to recognize her aunt over the matter, or the person could have disguised themself as Eva (I’d like to point out that the marks on Maria’s neck show she was strangled with on hand, and it would have to be an adult’s too). Simply put, Rosa used Eva’s appearance, while Maria used her behavior, to try and recognize the person in the garden. Unlike in the other arcs, it’s become fairly obvious that at least one murder on the island was committed by Eva in the third game; the problem is in finding out if she did them all, which ones she did other than Battler, if any, or simply if she was acting as a puppet for the “Beatrice” entity (I don’t mean supernatural entity, I’m just using that word in place for a gender specific identifier). My theories for the scene I talked about are;

    A: “Beatrice” used Eva’s clothing in an elaborate disguise that Maria saw through while Rosa didn’t.
    B: It was actually Eva in the garden, while Hideyoshi was out smoking, drugged, or otherwise unaware of his wife’s actions.

  22. FaS says:

    :( I dropped this show due to time issues, but want to pick it back up. Judging from you getting all the way to episode 20, I suspect it’s pretty legit ;D Anyways, nice blog! I’ve been keeping up w/you since last summer. Great detailed posts. Mind if I add you to my blogroll?

  23. Deus says:

    @ Viewer:

    There’s a fundamental error, in that equating Beatrice = murderer, when in fact a character can *play* Beatrice without killing anyone at all, satisfying the red truth. As I stated, there may even be multiple Beatrice’s: “Maria’s” Beatrice, her benefactor whom she plays tea parties with, and “murderer” Beatrice, who kills everyone, or any combination in between.

    The problem with Eva as the culprit in part 3 is that she’s way too obvious. They practically spoonfed that answer to us. Which means she, as the main culprit (aside from her murder of Battler, which may have been motivated by fear, in suspecting Battler as the murderer ala “Wolf and Sheep” puzzle), is most likely wrong. Same for Rosa in part 2.

    My personal suspect? Nanjo. That is, Nanjo in collusion with a person (or persons) he previously proclaimed as “dead”. As a doctor, he’s usually the first and only person to examine the bodies, and there is no guarantee on what he says except his word. He’s *very* suspicious, in ALL arcs. Said person then kills him to keep him quiet, then simply leaves, leaving Eva to wander to Kuwadorian.

    Who’s the killer then? Somebody who we think of as dead earlier in the arc, but was never announced in red.

  24. psgels psgels says:

    tadam: lol, I just like to read the different theories that you guys are all posting. If I have any issues with them, I usually subtly include this in subsequent posts.

    FaS: sure, go ahead. :)

  25. Sacchi says:

    I and some other people discuss the episodes of Umineko on a forum. I thought you could be interested in reading my post about this episode. Check the very last part for something I noticed regarding what you said about Maria having been killed in the third game.

    Just for the note, I haven’t played the games, so if I happen to come across something that’s true, 1) Don’t tell me. 2) Don’t delete this post for spoilers, since this is only what I’ve noticed. Ok, here it goes:

    Let’s see…we now know that Beatrice’s name is Beatrice Warugiria, although I’m not sure if we already knew this, or if it serves for anything. Just wondering, do wives in Japan get the last name of their husband like in USA? ‘Cause that would mean that Beatrice was never wive of Kinzo, although the possibility of her being his secret love stands.

    Also, I didn’t quite understand something. I don’t get japanese, so please excuse me. But did the episode just reveal that the letters that were supposedly written by Maria were actually written by Beatrice’s master (totally forgot her name)? It would make sense. When the guy recognizes the letter, they clearly focus on the letter type at the end of the page. We also see that the letter at the end of the page is completely different to the one that is written in most of the page. Checking the book scene again, we clearly see that it is Beatrice who starts writing, and then Beato’s master finally writes something at the end of the page, which is what the guy in the restaurant finally notices.

    Now, there’s two possibilities. Either Maria is a nice ally of Beatrice and that explains why she wasn’t killed before, or Beato’s master is clearly trying to trick Ange and Battler with her acting as Maria. After all, we did know that it wasn’t Maria who wrote the letters and put them in the whine bottles, and we know that Beato’s master has always been an ally of Beatrice, since she helped Beato trick Battler with all the Evatrice thing. That would mean that Ange and Maria ARE indeed good friends, but the Maria and Beatrice that we saw in the “black space for witches only” were Beatrice and Beatrice’ master. Since Beatrice master clearly supports Beatrice, that’s why “Maria” says “I’ve got a power that you don’t have Ange, and that is magic.”

    My current theory is that in this episode we saw both the real Maria witch and the false Maria. False Maria in the whole “black space” scene, true Maria in helping Ange get better with her powers by calling the 7 sisters. Still not sure about the Maria in the tea party in secret garden, ’cause that was just weird. For one side, you’ve got that whatever happened there clearly was written on Maria’s diary. On the other hand, it could have just been a trick, or possibly Maria met the true Beatrice, the one that we were shown that fell off a cliff and died.

    Or, assuming that witches don’t exist at all, we send this episode to a very, very far away corner in our minds and ignore it :D

    EDIT: Quit the censoring! I freaking want to see halloween sweets in people’s stomaches xD

    EDIT2: Ok, just thought of something. First, I started thinking why Maria got killed in the third game “peacefully” by Beatrice. Then, I realized that all that was a freaking illusion. And then, I realized that 3 games have happened so far, yet there are only 2 letters describing the events of the third game…

  26. ebisu says:

    Well i think here starts to play the two basic or usual time theories, usually incompatible with each other. One is that everything you change in the past will affect your future and actually change your present, and the other is that changing the past will create a parallel dimension where events go a different way, but it won’t affect your present.
    And so the bottles are fact that there is going on a change on the present that results in a different order of the events later. So my guess is that Lamba is lying like a witch(she says the most convenient truth for her) and Ange has still the chance now that she is out of the chessboard.

    Also about Maria, the events in this fourth arc seems to have changed because of Kawamura/Virgilia awakening in the third arc. Warugiria is awakened since the start of this story now so it is natural that magical events, like Sakutarou and Maria’s, happen in a different order.
    For my theory, now we know that everything that happens in a chessboard will have consequences in the next one, even if you reset the game. That explains why the killers change maybe. And just to say, if Battler wins Ange could end in her body of 6 years knowing all about the witches and enjoying her happy ending.

    Finally, Kinzo has died all 3 times being burnt to death so he might have been really dead since the beggining, though his fucking ring is the clue to resolve a lot of the murders. Note also, the writing of the two letters is the same so the job’s done by the same person. So if it is not Maria the writer then one assassin in first and two arcs is the same person and survives till the end.

  27. Lloyd says:

    Hey, Long time reader First time poster. Can I just say that this blog is what keeps me coming back to Battler and his one sided war against magic? You really help clarifiy points I might have missed.

    And speaking of which:

    Remember everyone, according to battler’s theory in the last arc, one of the six people who died in the key switching locked rooms on the first twilight was the killer too. There may have been two killers in the last Arc. (Which may even be the one who was responsible for George and his dad’s death, if Eva was his/her accomplice.)

    Wait… sudden thought… Did beato say in red text that each one of the twilight deaths were actually.. you know… dead?

  28. Deus says:

    @ Lloyd:

    Yes, all characters killed in the first twilight were stated dead in red.

    What *does* raise red flags, however, is the failure to state Kyrie, Rudolph and Hideyoshi dead (Ronove starts, but never finishes). So a case can be made that an original murderer started out with the usual “kill 6 people plan” as per the first 2 arcs, screwed up along the way and got themselves killed, and one of those 3 people not stated in red (plus or minus a few accomplices) took up the slack in murdering for the rest of the arc.

    What’s more, if we take magical events as symbolic of events as they happen in reality, only distorted, then it makes even more sense. Beatrice effectively gives up an active role in events after the first twilight (the original killer taken out of the equation), and replaced with *another* magical representation: Eva Beatrice, symbolizing another individual or set of individuals carrying out the murders.

    This “murderer set 2″ may be *triggered* by “murderer set 1″, but is not related to it otherwise.

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  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 07:36 AM)
    Recalling now when Ninjarealist mentioned that my voice when writing comes off as different from how I sound in my posts.
  • K-Off
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 07:14 AM)
    What often surprises me even more is how different some people can be apart from their Internet personas, from an Internet cynic to a meek person irl. Thats to be expected but fascinating.
  • K-Off
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 07:08 AM)
    @Kaiser Surprise reactions are to be expected from faceless interactions over a chatroom, so it’s pretty normal. But that’s a first, I’ve always thought I looked pretty Italian.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 07:06 AM)
    As a teenager when I had a long scruffy beard and messy long hair, Ian Anderson comparisons were made.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 07:04 AM)
    @K-off: I remember you stating you were of some Italian heritage, my image at first was that you’d be more Latin looking.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 07:01 AM)
    I’ve gotten surprised reactions before from people, people not believing I’m 30.
  • K-Off
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 06:54 AM)
    @Kaiser Oh really, I had this image of a 30 some-ish year old Swede having blond hair, which to my surprise wasn’t the case, and in yours to an extent as well. As Supermario said it’s impossible to not have any kind of superficial image in your mind.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 06:51 AM)
    @K-off: I actually remember she posted her picture on deviantart once for a while.
  • K-Off
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 06:47 AM)
    @Kaiser Well while we’re at, this is Friend and I Sunday. She's said that she doesn’t mind if you guys see her.
    https://i.imgur.com/Zs5u2oO.jpg
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Tuesday, May 24. 2016 04:37 AM)
    And there that reminds me its been six years since read preacher, I’ll have to adopt the wait and see approach before watching the show however, see how much gets cut.

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