Posted by psgels on 19 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Well, the third arc was awesome: it had a new twist in just about every new episode and kept holding the balls in the air with increasingly astonishing plot twists. In comparison, the past two episodes have really been a let-down. Especially considering how the creators have the arduous task of filling about 50 hours of visual Novel in just 26 episodes, they really could have used this episode better.

My problem with the past three episodes is simple: who the heck is Ange? Why the heck should I care about her? And why the heck does she have more background than nearly all of the other characters so far? This backstory of the past three episodes could easily have been squeezed in one episode, just like what the creators did with the first arcs. That would actually have left plenty of room for background on some of the other characters who deserved this, instead of this rather one-sided mini-arc that’s just there to show that Ange feels lonely and gets bullied by really, really, really stereotypical evil classmates.

The fun in Umineko comes from creating the theories and the crazy out of control plot in which you really have to guess what’s going on, and you can trust nobody. This episode… I just can’t make anything from it.
Rating: – (Disappointing)

33 Responses

  1. Marion says:

    Ange is Battler’s younger sister. For some reason the anime decided not to mention her until almost the near end of the arc, when in the VN Ange had been mentioned several times before she appeared.

    Anyways, they’re trying to show some perpective to everything from OUTSIDE the gameboard, since every time everyone died and Ange was just adopted by Kasumi, possibly being killed not to long afterwards.

    But what did you think of the rest of the episode? Ange wasn’t the only one shown – we also got Maria and an explanation as to her creepy persona: all this happened pre-Rokkenjima, which means Sakutaro being ripped apart by Rosa happens in EVERY arc before they all go to the island. And you can see Maria being angry and showing off an evil face for the first time in the arc.

    As for why Ange is being so looked at in this arc there is a reason. The anime didn’t mention it, but Lambda implied that because Ange is just a special outside piece (sort of like a trump card) it means that when the 4th game ends Ange would be discarded.

  2. chounokoe says:

    As usual I won’t spoil anything that lies beyond this point, but I want to try to defend this episode.

    I think you can imagine that many people had their problems with this part of the 4th VN, too. Everyone was expecting it to jump into a furious final chapter and we got half a novel explaining the tragedy of Ushiromiya Ange.
    While I personally also think that Ange’s could have been made much much briefer, the problem is that in almost every scene there is some stuff that is vital to how the world of Umineko and it’s concept of magic is constructed.
    And for the first time we are witnessing the events outside of the stage of Rokkenjima…we are witnessing things that are most likely not influenced by the storytelling of a maniac witch.

    I find it just a bit sad, that the conclusion of Maria’s background didn’t draw that much attention from you, because I pretty much liked how they adapted it. As was already mentioned, it explains quite a lot about her rather creepy demeanor on the island…as she is just a bitter child and not obeying her mother is just her powerless way to get back at her.

    The problem is also, there is no other background that could be covered right now, the other characters ARE rather bland compared to Ange, as like in many crime-mysteries, we can’t know that much about them, as it would maybe spoil the mystery. In that regards Umineko holds for some readers maybe the same problem as an Agatha Christie novel, namely the rather stretched out introduction and build up, with only clues but no real closure in itself.

    Regarding the mystery, there sure are some things in this episode which you could use, but which are maybe a bit harder to see at first sight.
    I emphasize again, those are not spoilers, just things that another person noticed at this point, you can make of them what you want.

    – Marias gang of magical forest animals are bunnies.
    – Maria wanted to learn the magic to get back at her mother/the evil witch and therefore formed a pact with Beatrice
    – Rosa’s behaviour seems to grow more and more paranoid and violent the closer we draw to the events on Rokkenjima
    – Ange’s claim that even though the magical creatures are illusions they exist as long as one beliefs

    I’m very excited to see what you will make of the rest of this arc, but I just like to remind everybody from time to time to look for clues not only in the direct circumference of the actual murders…clues can be hidden everywhere.

  3. Nayrael says:

    Well, lets be thankful that Studio DEEN is rushing through all of this.
    While I like Ange, these backstory certainly is annoying (tough I do understand that it serves a purpose later on). It would have been better if she was just an ally for one arc and then in arc after that gradually reveal the backstory. As you said, most people are not interested in backstory of a completely new character.

  4. psgels psgels says:

    Strangely enough, I didn’t think much of Maria’s back-story until you mentioned it again. I guess that at this point, I’m so much used to the fact that you shouldn’t trust anything in this series that I actually thought that it was yet another illusion from Beatrice. After all, the previous episode implied that it was Beatrice who wrote both the message in the bottle and Maria’s diary. This could have been yet another trick of her to manipulate Ange, making her Believe that Beatrice is actually pretty nice.

    But yeah, now that you mention it, it does clarify a lot. Maria didn’t simply become twisted because she was abused as a child, but because she lost her trust in her mother, who once was actually a good mother.

  5. d says:

    if you had watched without such a bias, you would find Ange to be an excellent character, I think they should have slowed down, so you can see more of how much she trained, and her life on the run, her emotions, opinions, thoughts. why should you care? maybe because you are watching raw or whatever, Ange is Battler’s younger sister, and the only member of family that survived beside that woman. She is the person that will inherit everything, head of the family. I am not going to tell you why she wasn’t at the island at the time or why Battler didn’t recognize her because the anime just skipped over it for no apparent reason. she is basically Rika of Higurashi, the person that will have to keep on going to that world till it’s fixed. if you didn’t care about Rika, and her struggle to fix everything then you might as well drop it right now because Ange will play the same role. this is why she needs alot of background, just like we needed alot for Rika. We sympathized with Rika, we felt how she felt, we cared about her, BECAUSE of all the information given about her.

  6. psgels psgels says:

    d: it’s funny to see you talking about bias when you’re clearly biased yourself. ;)

    Seriously though, the reason I loved Rika in Higurashi wasn’t necessarily because she had a lot of background, but rather the way her role as a characters was built up throughout the series: it just kept subtly changing during every arc, until everything was revealed in the end. And I just can’t compare Ange with that when she basically took up the majority of the screentime ever since she appeared, shoving nearly all of the other interesting characters aside in the process.

  7. Morgoth says:

    As far as it concerns me, I was quite satisfied with the episode. Sure that whole Ange-thing could’ve been a little bit shorter but then I think it’s interesting and necessary to see that part since Ange is the new “main protagonist” who is able to turn around the game completely – she knows magic but is willed to deny it as a means to fight Beato. I know only the anime and I wouldn’t have liked it if Ange which has appeared so suddenly and has become so important suddenly would’ve got as much background as the other characters or only insignificantly more. But I guess, like chounoke said, it also served some purpose so it’s not really wasted.

  8. Janette says:

    While I could care less about Ange, I am enjoying learning about Maria’s backstory. I find it interesting that she’s deeper then the crazy little girl.

  9. Taiyaki says:

    Ange’s backstory isn’t just there to show what a crappy childhood she had or whatever, it actually has a purpose as it explains “something” that should be pretty important in order to understand the mystery. Maybe you just haven’t noticed it yet, but it should become quite apparent by the end of the arc.

  10. Marion says:

    @psgels: About your comment with Beato – Beatrice CANNOT affect anything but the gameboard. She can only present fakes scenes on Rokkenjima: the World of 1998 is different from the gameboard and she doesn’t control it or have any type of say in what we see there. Same goes for Ange’s backstory.

    What we see are things either from Maria’s memory or scenes coming directly from Maria’s diary, which Maria wrote herself before Rokkenjima.

    Don’t be too paranoid – fake scenes will normally be indicated by the presence of magic. Or the magical characters in the scene themselves are fake (how Mammon said she was just a delusion Ange created to alleviate her lonliness).

    Also, why does Beato have to be evil? There are signs already that Beato may just be a puppet of Lambda (the tea party part in episode 18 before Ange is shown in 1998)

  11. cad says:

    I don’t have much to add to the excellent points made here by some contributors, but I would like to say, that as with any 07th Expansion series, things always start slow. Higurashi remedied this by ‘hinting’ at the future, but each arc began slow and whimsical nonetheless.

    This arc is an excellent one, that has many subtleties in it. You might give it a chance–so far, it may not have as many crazy twists (emphasis on the so far), but what it loses in played-straight twists it gains with the subtleties. I would recommend rewatching this episode once you finish the whole thing, just to really see, how much thought went into everything here.

  12. immblueversion says:

    So I take it you will only find satisfaction when they get back to Rokkenjima and start doing stuff that makes the characters go “WTF?”, thus giving you justification to say that yourself. I understand your discomfort with the sudden change of pace, but for a series that is on the verge of shifting stances from raising questions to answering them, it should not be taken lightly.

  13. battler says:

    @psgels next chapter start all the part related to rokkenjima all of this was only a background for this arc, be ready because in next chapter and when the first twilight start everything is going to be awesome =)

  14. Anon says:

    This was a well done episode. You may not like all this Maria and Ange stuff but it’s important to the plot. It also gives you a better idea how magic works in Umineko.

    With this episode over, the slow beginning of EP4 is finally over. Now it’s back to 1986 Rokkenjima. The rest of this arc is great.

  15. Rift says:

    Geez, everyone seems so vehemently protective of the anime – and I’m not sure why. Sure, the scenes in this episode were important to solving the mystery. They’re great development for Maria and Ange. They’re necessary for what’s to come, blah blah etc. That doesn’t change the fact that this was mostly just an episode setting up future events; while those events may be epic and awesome, the set up is pretty boring and bland. Yes, we got to see some “truth” behind what magic is. We got to understand a lot more about Maria. Both important… but really not particularly fun or interesting to watch. The momentum of the show has completely changed directions, so its understandable that people would find the change jarring. I love what’s to come as much as anyone else who’s played the VNs, but that doesn’t mean you have to defend every episode of the anime so vehemently.

  16. vic says:

    “I’m very excited to see what you will make of the rest of this arc, but I just like to remind everybody from time to time to look for clues not only in the direct circumference of the actual murders…clues can be hidden everywhere”

    exactly like the rabbits maria had, they seem like………. XD

  17. immblueversion says:

    @Anon

    Well, they used 3/8 of the anime arc to cover half of the VN arc. That being said, the remaining episodes should be quite juicy. But if I didn’t know anything about Umineko beforehand, I would say that they’ve developed the characters enough, now it’s time for some action. Please, Umineko veterans and/or know-it-all showoffs, say nothing.

  18. sfx says:

    Not the Ange/Rika comparisons again :/ Honestly, Higurashi and Umineko are similar series, but there are not direct parallels for everything in Higurashi in the world of Umineko. There isn’t really evidence towards a Rika or Hanyuu role existing in Umineko, or Ange being one. In fact, some aspects of Umineko seem purposely intended to mislead people with previous experience from Higurashi. And it’s a bit too early to assume that Ange is the new protagonist either.

  19. Jubbz says:

    I kinda see where you’re coming from in this whole stuff about Ange. alas, Ange’s supposed to be Battler’s little sister. She should’ve been mentioned a few times throughout the series, but thanks to deen, her introduction looks like something they pulled out their asses.

  20. Pafiume says:

    I’ve enjoyed these episodes, myself. I wonder if that’s because I was anticipating Ange in the series beforehand, though, since I read up on wiki a while ago. I really need to stop doing that. But, either way, it’s still been interesting, at least. I loved watching what happened to Maria and now I hate her less.

    Of course now I’ve read certain things in the comments and have ideas floating around in my head for the mystery.. Guess I’ll just see.

  21. Veldril says:

    I think the important of Ange and Maria’s scene in this arc is that it is needed to establish the foundation of “magic” in Umineko. To deny magic, you need to know what really is magic in the first place. With this three episodes, basic assumption of what is magic should be able to be established by now.

    Since magic in this series is different from other series (Fate/Stay Night, D&D, etc.), it is very important to know what magic is.

  22. Camario says:

    I liked it, but once again I can see why it’s not the most exciting episode for other viewers.

    As someone who is new to this franchise, it’s difficult for me to completely make up my mind yet…but I’m willing to wait and see where this arc takes all this Ange and Maria background. I hope that this will be used to bring a good conclusion. I don’t mind slow episodes full of setup and information from the past if there’s an ultimate point to it.

    So far I’m still optimistic. The episode showed a nice set of parallels between Maria and Ange, as well as reinforcing the link between magic and the power of belief, which has been a pretty important theme in this series.

    I’m hoping that we get finally back to 1986 next week, but the events of 1998 are getting more interesting as well.

  23. Lloyd says:

    Oh come on!

    Just get to the Damn dinner so we find out if Kinzo actually kept up with his word and turns up for dinner or not!

    I just want to know who the bloody murderer(s) are now so I can start speculating how they’ve been doing it this whole time!

    That aside… isn’t Ange accepting magic meaning that she’s now against battler? Or is Meta-Ange still emoing over not being able to get Battler back to her life?

  24. laala says:

    I have the feeling the most important hint in this episode is that for the furnitures to obey an order to kill, the intent to kill must be present in the witch. Now that we know Maria is planning to take revenge on her mother…

  25. cad says:

    @lloyd: i’m thinking battler isn’t trying to prove witches don’t exist (that would be a probatio diabolica) but that there was no magic involved in the rokk. disaster. so ange can still believe in magic and help him so long as she doesn’t believe magic was involved in the murder incident.

  26. Niw says:

    I reckon you haven’t read the intro message of EP4?

    Good Morning.
    What a surprise that you still haven’t been forced to surrender.
    By this point, I must expect a lot from you.

    Games do not take place only on the game board.
    This time, how about taking a little peek at the outside?
    The say that if you know your enemy, you need not fight a hundred battles.

    The difficulty depends on you.
    Your style of fighting up until now will influence the difficulty.

    Infer what you want from the bolded part.

  27. Westlo says:

    I like how everyone’s acting like Ange was really foreshadowed in the VN’s when she was mentioned in one liners twice before she showed up and numerous scenes acted like she didn’t exist period.

    Jessica saying it’s good all the cousins are together again.. um what about Ange.. you know your cousin who’s been going the last 6 years? Why isn’t Maria asking where Ange is? Ange seemed to look up to her and they are the closest in age yet she doesn’t react at all to no Ange?

    You can hardly blame DEEN for her piss poor introduction (in regards to foreshadowing) when the novel itself did a poor job. Majority of players wouldn’t have even remembered Ange period while reading the novels, it’s just another case of revisionist history.

    “This backstory of the past three episodes could easily have been squeezed in one episode, just like what the creators did with the first arcs.”

    HAHAHAHAHA this is like 5 hours worth of VN material. Don’t worry most VN players were rather “meh” to Ange and Maria’s back stories as well. Everyone pretty much wanted more Beatrice and Battler after episode 3 and than Kinzo finally starts to do something and we get hit with this long ass backstory.

  28. Niw says:

    >Don’t worry most VN players were rather “meh” to Ange and Maria’s back stories as well. Everyone pretty much wanted more Beatrice and Battler after episode 3 and than Kinzo finally starts to do something and we get hit with this long ass backstory.

    Of course, that perfectly and obviously explains why Ange got 2nd place in the official EP4 popularity contest. Yup.

  29. Rika says:

    @Niw

    Well, just because people found her long backstory boring doesn’t neccesarily mean that they don’t care/hate Ange.

  30. 4saken says:

    True, I didn’t hate this part but I was still quite impatient when reading it :P

  31. ebisu says:

    Maria’s mother has really something wrong with her head and Maria gets very twisted because of the traumatic situation. If Maria becomes mentally capable of killing like it seems, that means a lot of things.

    Well just a theory but I think that at least in the first arc she was together with the assassin. That would explain the accurate knowledge of magic of the assassin and the help she gives to make it look as a Beatrice’s killing scenario. The way everything goes makes quite sense this way in the first arc.
    She should have forged the pact or alliance when she receives the letter and umbrella when alone in the rain(the first of the misterious actions). Maybe I’m wrong but :).

  32. Westlo says:

    “Well, just because people found her long backstory boring doesn’t neccesarily mean that they don’t care/hate Ange. ”

    Pretty much.. I really like Ange but I couldn’t wait for it to get past her backstory and get back to the island. And it’s not like later events after the backstory might have given her more votes.. no of course not :p

  33. Narkins says:

    The backstory was dull as hell in the game as well, but its important for the story.

    Anyway another BEST MOTHER EVER award for Maria, its been a long way since she was introduced as a nice person in the first ep

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Amagi
I would have prefered it if the magical beings were weird looking instead of all of them being beautiful sameface humans. Also the special role of Chise and how everyone gets alured by her give me strong otome vibes and I am really not a fan of this gerne
Amagi
@Lenlo/KT same here. It's just that AMB can't come even close to Inu, Shuumatsu or Houseki. I am no a fan of the pacing and the rest is basically just fantasy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was worried there for a moment thinking sangatsu no lion was ending next week, turns out season 2 is 22 episodes afterall.
Lenlo
Yeah KT, watching the two together has not come out favorably for AMB for me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I believe it works better in hellsing and drifters moreso to both being goofball action shows.
KTravlos
A point on the chibi in AMB. I was thinking about shows were the chibi did not bother me, and Hellsing Ultimate and Drifters (newest episodes coming out), both had deformed/chibi segments. For some reason they did not bother me. I think ABM directors have bad timing with them.
KTravlos
I have to say Ichirou Inuyashiki is very cool. Like he is really a cool character. Also I am saddened to say it but watching AMB together with Inuyashuki does not work well for AMB
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Silver: There are sad moments certainly but plenty of humour.
Anonymous1639132
Man, I sure hope Ichirou Inuyashiki and Hiro Shishigami make out, everything is just building up to that
silver
I actually have only watched one or two episodes of this season of 3-gatsu, but its rising scores and rave reviews are making me really excited! I've only put it off because it's somewhat emotionally tiring for me
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Well, after the first season of 3-gatsu ended, I did skim ahead to this bullying arc so I already know this is going to be powerful, yet the anime still wow me over and over
Anonymous1637770
Also it can be tricky selecting a season sequel since some old series had like 50 to 100 episodes, what counted as a season then?
Anonymous1637770
@Kaiser-Eoghan - It's more common in videogames (especially Capcom) than in other mediums. Megaman 2, RE 2, Street Fighter 2, Dino Crisis 2, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, etc.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually in a rarity, a sequel season is better than the first.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which makes my enjoyment of sangatsu so strange.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I generally do not like game/sports orientated shows.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That you slightlySuper-erMario and superwooper!
Kaiser-Eoghan
And my reaction to the show is such, that I enjoyed it enough to make such a huge pot about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also I want Akari to be my mom and Hina is adorable without being annoyingly so and Kana Hanazawa is doing a good job voicing her.

And whoever said it is right, the op/ed songs are worth listening to, for once I’m not skipping them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
At this point it feels as if by the end of the series I’ll come off it thinking that I don’t want to say goodbye to these characters.
I don’t think as of just yet it complete lives up to honey and clovers legacy though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I never cared about Harunobu initially, but recent episodes have changed this.
Dull parts of the manga are easier to get through for me in the anime due to Shaft elevating the material with one of the better uses of their visual gimmicks.
Giving the series another chance, even though I won’t fully embrace the humour, it does now and then manage to make me laugh a little.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bullying arc centering on Hina and the shows treatment of it is better than most anime bullying stories and has provided the most emotionally rewarding aspect of the show.
Characters that are assholes like Kyouko’s boyfriend, Kyouko herself I’m finding somewhat more sympathetic and want to see more to their personal drama.
Kaiser-Eoghan
However I do genuinely think that the series does a good job of allowing dramatic moments to creep up on the viewer, that early scene of Hina crying over her mother, Rei’s family flashbacks, Akari’s concerns about Hina/the stuff with her dad, all the scenes with Kyouko do carry an effective and solid dramatic weight to them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel it starts very strong, making a great first impression, then kind of has these dull moments that make it sort of a slog at times to get through, unfortunately I have no interest in chess/shougi and no knowledge the show tries to give me is going to stick or allow me to embrace that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Through jumping back and forth between the anime and manga, I can say I have no caught up to where I will now watch March comes like a lion on a weekly basis.
Anonymous1636224
The blood of the innocent will flow without end, mmmmmm this is why I love Inuyashiki
Anonymous1636224
Mmmmmm the suffering of all those innocent people feeding his God boner, this is why I love Inuyashiki
Lenlo
Oh yeah, thats not a knock against it. Just noting they dont *need* much animation
SuperMario
Well, the nature of Mahoutsukai is slow-burned, so it makes sense they focus more on static, quiet moments
Lenlo
Was that blade 2022 thing supposed to be an example? Because I wasnt a fan. It was stylish sure, but difficult to follow.
Lenlo
Maho is a good looking show, I wouldnt call it a great animated show.
Lenlo
The issue for me is, theres just not alot being animated most of the time. Usually its a pretty slow moving anime, so most of its time is talking and still shots. It doesnt need alot of animation, so it doesnt have it.
Lenlo
@Niel, I think Mahoutsukai can have good animation when it wants to. Like the water viel in episode 10 looked good (Though im not sure how much of that was after effects)
Anonymous1635607
uhhh creepy
Anonymous1635589
the blood of the innocent will flow without end, mmmm this is why I love Inuyashiki so much
Amagi
I think the security is the same as here, it's just that Japanese people are less likely to rip stuff (correct me if I am wrong). It seems like ripped anime, manga and so on are basically always uploaded by Americans, Chinese people or someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was surprised heavens feel was camripped I thought security in japanese theatres was stronger.
Amagi
Yeah it's also screening in Germany, I will watch it in February, together with Heaven's Feel, Mutafukaz, Kimikoe and a few others.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*on Europa cinema
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nanoha new film to screen next February in the US, come in Europa license it for over here dammit....
Kaiser-Eoghan
Did have some down moments though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I guess contrasting Luke with his old self goes some way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Saw the preview screening of the new star wars, still feel the new trilogy stands inbetween the originals and prequels, fufills its duty as a *** star blockbuster , some genuinely hilarious high camp moments, awful tokenism, Snoke is a shit villain, but two scenes with Luke actually have a pathos to them and I liked the chase/action scenes when they happened. Nobody cares about the acting/dialogue
AidanAK47
But there are times when it goes way too far and you can barely make out what is even supposed to be happening. Or characters go so off model that they are unrecognizable. It can be immersion breaking. Much like uncanny CGI.
AidanAK47
@Niel, I do agree that it's annoying to see people complain about animation when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Like those inbetween frame screenshot people. But I will say I appreciate on model characters more so than chaotic movement. When the off model stuff suits the tone of the scene like that blade runner part, then it's fine.
niel
I also don't want to see someone imply visual=animation for the hundredth time. Are people really that ignorant of the technical/artistic aspect of the media they consumed?
niel
It just depends on what works best in given scene and the aesthetic they want to go for. People can complain all they want about off-model stuff, but if they really only want that the they won't be getting nearly as much of those impactful scenes as there are now. So many of the ways people complain about it is really irking to me.
niel
normal/low action scenes is different from being on-model during the action sequences and just the ones that need some extra impact in general. https://youtu.be/rrZk9sSgRyQ?t=6m45s
niel
But that depends on the situation though. And I'd argue that being consistent and on-model during
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter/Niello/Mario: Ideally I want it both ways, fluid animation AND consistent model visuals, all the while never sacrificing choreography.
SuperMario
But really, who am I to say. I'm the dude who prefer beautiful shot composition myself
SuperMario
The same can be said with Shinkai's movies since he always prefers static, beautiful shot that people tend to overlook that his animation is quite poorly handled
Vonter
You're right, but art direction does alleviate limited animation, I mean the old Berserk anime, kinda has a lot of slideshow moments. MahoYome has nice backgrounds, and despite the samey faces, at the very least doesn't come from the same mold as other series. Still cutting corners with chibi segments is was a mistake.
SuperWooper
Is it any wonder that people prefer things to be static/on-model? They want to see characters who look consistent and familiar so they can relate to them.
Nie
MahoYome being the biggest offender of people getting triggered to any kind of statement about the show's animation not being good. And it's absurd because the show's animation really isn't great at all. It's good with distracting people with pretty pictures, but animation-wise it's still mediocre.
Nie
@SuperMario: Not much. Just stuff like "Art is part of the animation weather it's beautiful backgrounds or just amazing looking characters. It's not all about how they move. If it was, CG would be considered great animation" multiple times. I've just been finding myself being replied with these kinds of comment non-stop since the start of the season.
SuperMario
@Niello: What happened exactly, if you don't me asking?
Nielllo
If I hear someone says AMB has good animation one more tie I might actually lose it. It's amazing how people who apparently know nothing about it try to defend this and other people who don't know anything are actually supporting the guy.
Niello
So with Fate Apocrypha episode 22 out, I'm just now learning that people think webgen style is horrible and they prefer static scenes with pretty visual over actual quality animation. WTF. I can't comprehend this. Are casual people who watch animation in general really that oblivious to the art they have been watching?
Lenlo
Berserks Dynasty Warriors style game looked better. Also, Mahoutsukai should be up tonight/tomorrow. Turns out, Christmas is a busy time of year at this job.
Amagi
*worse
Amagi
Especially when you consider how good CGI can be by now, look at Houseki or Kado. But Berserk was the worst thing I saw in years, many scenes felt worst than sequences of PSX games
Amagi
@SuperMario: Same. I love Kon and also consider Paprika's OST as the best. @Lenlo: Me too. I honestly even enjoyed the movies but the new series was atrocious
Lenlo
HIRASAWAAAA! HAAAAAI YOOOOO.
I miss the 90s Berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was also quite fond of his soundtracks for Berserk. AIIIIIYE FORCES : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYYYew8CUI
SuperMario
@Amagi: I'm a big fan of Kon so I've watched everything from his. Even bought a book about his works. About the soundtrack, I listened to them as well but not regularly, compare to pprika OST which I downloaded and listen to a lot
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although not completely a manga, Usagi yojimbo also has an anthro character.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Millennium actress is partially inspired by the actress Setsuko Hara.
Amagi
@Kaiser-Eoghan: The anthro-animal manga is even a topseller as far as I know. Haven't looked into it yet, though. Maybe I will do so.
Amagi
Speaking of it, I am still hoping Dream Machine will happen some day. Kon died believing it would happen
Amagi
@SuperMario: Have you tried the other Kon movies like Millennium Actress once? Thought they were really good and Hirasawa is responsible for the OST there too. Or Paranoia Agent which was (IMO) very good as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nttSKBJ38k (OP)
Niello
Eoghan: Enjoy... ;)
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I haven't read this, its very strange to see a manga about full anthro animal characters: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Beastars
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: So based on that I will try devil lady. Thanks.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: That'd be me who made that post. I thought dororon enma-kun was wonderfully ridiculous and Devilman gorishly entertaining, Shin Mazinger Z was probably some of the most fun I had with an anime, but violence jack took it way too far though so I guess I'm aquainted with nagai's work
Vonter
I don't remember who was looking for something noir in anime. I was looking among several series from Go Nagai. And watched some Devil Lady. I don't remember if noir is exclusively detective stories, but this anime, has those high contrast shadows, eerie music and is shot like some japanese horror movies I've seen. I don't know if it changes along the road but so far it's very suspenseful.
SuperMario
I only know him through his works in Berserk and Paprika but his music never fails to amaze me
Anonymous1626471
@Amagi: Ghost Bridge is my favourite. I just find it very calming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeh5aJsxlbw
Amagi
Susumu Hirasawa is one of my favorite musicians/composers. I don't even know what kind of subgenre this is. There aren't any other music groups I know who do similar stuff
Nielllo
@Mario, Already saw that video before.
SuperMario
Check this out... I don't even know what the freaking instrument he's playing, but it's spellbound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjalQjAomH0
Niello
Just when I thought Houseki no Kuni took the prize for best animation I was treated with Apocrypha. This week is amazing.
Niello
Big name animators all over. They really threw everything they've got here.
Niello
Woooooah! OMG Apocrypha ep 22 animation is sick! So that's why the animation in the first half of the show is so lackluster and basically just darn awful.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its not entirely odd to bring up Heydrich in relation to the occult either, apparently he was said to be part of some whackjob order.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm, that girl from Dies irae, Anna Schwegln is aptly named, also shares her name with the last executed person for witchcraft, who was Bavarian German, which i'm told by an Austrian friend were particular right-est leaning politically.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course unfortunately its often the opposite that happens, nothing is worse than an ending that ruins everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, how I love being surprised by something. That feeling where you''re watching something shakily held together, simply okay or good, then suddenly in the second half or last stretch your score of it goes massively up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can kind of understand the wanting to go home and watch something easy mentality instead of challenging but even though I'm guilty of escapism, I'm tired somewhat of "sillier" stuff, its often enjoyable but its get overly reptitive and I wish I could find more philosophical/political/imaginative things.
Amagi
Yeah the show is great because of its theme, the setting and chemistry girls have as well as their (lack of) knowledge about basic human things. Each episode thematizes this in a different way but there isn't much you can talk or say about it when you already explained the topic in detail.
SuperMario
On the other hand, I don't have much to talk about Girls' Last Tour this week. It's still good, but with this episode I feel that I'm running out of concrete thig to say about the show
SuperMario
Haha both Houseki and 3-gatsu have a good showing this week. I have a lot of things to talk about Houseki in particular
Amagi
This week's Houseki is jurassic park
Amagi
*-ati - I think Netflix and so are at least giving a few new impulses which isn't too bad. I don't think the typical anime series will disappear because of that.
Amagi
At least in comparisation
Amagi
I think it's just sad how often I see wonderful series selling 500 BD/DVD or maybe even less. Most series don't sell more than 1500 or so and the rest is usually at ~3000-5000 which is still pretty low.
Amagi
Yeah, it's one of my pro-Netflix arguments as well. Another problem is that anime (not counting manga) only make money through dvd/bd sales since they air at night, whereas Netflix or daytime tv series don't depend on the latter so much and since anime BDs are so expensive the only ones who buy them are the more extreme fans.
AidanAK47
Might be in part due to the workaholic nature of their society that makes escapist fantasy and empty entertainment more appealing than usual. Ultimately these are the people anime is made for so opening up the markets gives more deserving shows a fighting chance.
Though that isn't to say that western taste is perfect either.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, That's part of the reason I think some westernation might be a good thing as from what I seen the Japanese have truly terrible taste in anime. Sales charts from Japan just make me shake my head.
Amagi
God, the preorder anime lists are atricious. The only one that seems to sell acceptable (around 6k) is Mahoyome. Series like Inuyashiki have 80 pre-orders so far, Shuumatsu Shoujo 977. Idol shows sell good of course, including that male/bishounen Idolmaster
AidanAK47
@Anon, I read it but kinda fell out due to it's releases being slow.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Actually if you check the manga recommendations section, you'll see there is a post about it here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yes, it was interesting to follow a story that dealt with a characters homosexuallity that was outside of the yaoi/yuri mould.
Anonymous1620968
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here read Shimanami Tasogare?
Niello
Where are we up to with Inuyashiki?
Lenlo
Well alright then. Episode 9 out of 11 and that happens. Was not expecting that
Lenlo
Ooo something happen this week? Im about to watch it
Kaiser-Eoghan
It feels just as rushed and awkward in the manga.
Amagi
I noticed this too
AidanAK47
Inuyashiki has balls of steel to pull that in this particular episode number.
Nielllo
Finally got around to reading Helck, and it looks like it's going to go into that pile of good-shounen-that-won't-ever-get-animated right alongside Psyren.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Imagine trying to buy the dvds of the show in public.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Gentle remind that the prism ilya movie is out and subbed.
AidanAK47
Still surprised the second and third seasons got dubbed.
AidanAK47
@Angel, I replied to one of your comments before but the rundown is no official word yet but maybe next year.
Angel
Or no? Someone please tell me!!
Angel
Going to happen?
Angel
Is fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub
Amagi
I dislike it when manga bait me into reading due to the first chapter and end up being some very generic stuff afterwards. Nobody stays for B if he started something for A, authours should expect that.
Lenlo
Really, Juuni should stick with the 3D. That fight in ep 9 looked pretty good. 3D is clearly what they are good at
AidanAK47
@Niello, It's not Chatango. It's a plugin for wordpress called Wisechat.
SuperMario
@Niello: yeah, Juuni caught me off guard this week. The production of Juuni is unfortunately shaky, but well, strong writing can save the day
Niello
Btw is this chat still Chatango?
Niello
This week episode of Juini is surprisingly good compared to how the show usually is with its backstory. Although the part where Ox tries to explain to Tiger could definitely use some visual buff.
SuperWooper
in the future*
SuperWooper
Pretty cool that Juuni Taisen had that kind of emotional heft this week, though. Might be one of the 2017 shows I sample the in the future.
SuperWooper
I think the occasional comments with an episode title and nothing more come from people who mistake the shoutbox for a search bar.
SuperMario
@Anon1614688: juuni taisen... made me tearing up this week. Honestly didn't expect that. Damn you, Tiger
Anonymous1614688
juuni taisen
Amagi
Had some complaints regarding Children of Whales but the latest two episodes were pretty good.
Amagi
@Anon: You explained it better than me.
Anonymous1614307
Kaiser: I actually have the exact same opinion of Natsume and Mushishi. Both are excellent, but Natsume just does a great job with a small core cast and a very simple premise
Anonymous1614456
who likes naruto
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mushishi does have good stories, but it was always a manga I'd dip in and out of, on and off for years, never marathoning it, wheras Natsume was easier to read several chapters of in one go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its because Natsume has more pathos.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more than
Natsume weirdly ended up becoming this comfort manga for me with a higher consistency rate .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will state that I hold the terrible opinion that I like Natsume Yujinchou than Mushishi but at the same time completely recognize that Mushishi is probably the more ambitious, better show.
Niello
So it becomes a cycle of "this is an interesting set up" (except that the new Kino isn't even good at that) and then they fucked up or Kino/Shizu fucked them up even more, then move on. Without the emphasis on philosophical nature of the set up they present like in the original Kino, there really isn't that much point to it.
Niello
With the new Kino it's more about messing people up, occassionally observing and hardly ever improving. The anwsers or solutions to the problem they present is never really talked about in a rational way.
SuperMario
@Anon1614318: maybe you should give the old Kino a try. What I don't like most about the new version of Kino is that both Kino and the new guy are sketched as hero. The old Kino manages the tone right as well. There were some really dark tales and most of them thought-provoking. Can't say the same for say...Country of Cooking
Anonymous1614318
I don't know, it might be interesting to actually dig deep into the differences between episodic series with this kind of style to see what works and what doesn't.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's a matter of the chapter they chose to adapt were not really the better ones but the ones where the protagonist is more of an active role. Not totally against that, but it feels like the protagonist is just OP all the time. At least with Mushishi Ginko isn't able to save everyone all the time.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's supposed to be more allegorical, but most of the time the allegory is not really meaningful enough. I thought it would be more along the lines of Mushishi, which is kind of similar in setup, but better in most other ways.
Anonymous1614318
What keeps me sticking around are some of the nice background arts and generally pleasant use of color, but admittedly most of the episodes aren't really engaging in a meaningful way. Most of the time its just Kino/Shizu show up, find out town's gimmick, then save the day. I prefer the episodes where the townspeople are more than just flat background characters.
Anonymous1614318
It's interesting to see how this new Kino season is being received from folks who've already watched the original. This is my first real exposure to Kino, and I kind of like it, but even without watching the original, I share many of the same complaints Aidan and most of the others have.
Amagi
I am also kinda sad he's just some 2* servant in fgo, but his power is special and he's physically weak, so it's understandable.
Amagi
And again, Shakespeare is just great but the character is, sadly, kinda wasted here considering how much screentime he has.
Amagi
@Aidan: Yes. Plus, maybe more characterization or background for some servants. The anime would have that time without Sieg and his romance sub plot.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Those being remove Sieg and more Shakespeare?
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Featured Posts

Juuni Taisen – 11 [To Treat a Man to Beef From His Own Cow]

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