Posted by psgels on 19 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Well, the third arc was awesome: it had a new twist in just about every new episode and kept holding the balls in the air with increasingly astonishing plot twists. In comparison, the past two episodes have really been a let-down. Especially considering how the creators have the arduous task of filling about 50 hours of visual Novel in just 26 episodes, they really could have used this episode better.

My problem with the past three episodes is simple: who the heck is Ange? Why the heck should I care about her? And why the heck does she have more background than nearly all of the other characters so far? This backstory of the past three episodes could easily have been squeezed in one episode, just like what the creators did with the first arcs. That would actually have left plenty of room for background on some of the other characters who deserved this, instead of this rather one-sided mini-arc that’s just there to show that Ange feels lonely and gets bullied by really, really, really stereotypical evil classmates.

The fun in Umineko comes from creating the theories and the crazy out of control plot in which you really have to guess what’s going on, and you can trust nobody. This episode… I just can’t make anything from it.
Rating: – (Disappointing)

33 Responses

  1. Marion says:

    Ange is Battler’s younger sister. For some reason the anime decided not to mention her until almost the near end of the arc, when in the VN Ange had been mentioned several times before she appeared.

    Anyways, they’re trying to show some perpective to everything from OUTSIDE the gameboard, since every time everyone died and Ange was just adopted by Kasumi, possibly being killed not to long afterwards.

    But what did you think of the rest of the episode? Ange wasn’t the only one shown – we also got Maria and an explanation as to her creepy persona: all this happened pre-Rokkenjima, which means Sakutaro being ripped apart by Rosa happens in EVERY arc before they all go to the island. And you can see Maria being angry and showing off an evil face for the first time in the arc.

    As for why Ange is being so looked at in this arc there is a reason. The anime didn’t mention it, but Lambda implied that because Ange is just a special outside piece (sort of like a trump card) it means that when the 4th game ends Ange would be discarded.

  2. chounokoe says:

    As usual I won’t spoil anything that lies beyond this point, but I want to try to defend this episode.

    I think you can imagine that many people had their problems with this part of the 4th VN, too. Everyone was expecting it to jump into a furious final chapter and we got half a novel explaining the tragedy of Ushiromiya Ange.
    While I personally also think that Ange’s could have been made much much briefer, the problem is that in almost every scene there is some stuff that is vital to how the world of Umineko and it’s concept of magic is constructed.
    And for the first time we are witnessing the events outside of the stage of Rokkenjima…we are witnessing things that are most likely not influenced by the storytelling of a maniac witch.

    I find it just a bit sad, that the conclusion of Maria’s background didn’t draw that much attention from you, because I pretty much liked how they adapted it. As was already mentioned, it explains quite a lot about her rather creepy demeanor on the island…as she is just a bitter child and not obeying her mother is just her powerless way to get back at her.

    The problem is also, there is no other background that could be covered right now, the other characters ARE rather bland compared to Ange, as like in many crime-mysteries, we can’t know that much about them, as it would maybe spoil the mystery. In that regards Umineko holds for some readers maybe the same problem as an Agatha Christie novel, namely the rather stretched out introduction and build up, with only clues but no real closure in itself.

    Regarding the mystery, there sure are some things in this episode which you could use, but which are maybe a bit harder to see at first sight.
    I emphasize again, those are not spoilers, just things that another person noticed at this point, you can make of them what you want.

    – Marias gang of magical forest animals are bunnies.
    – Maria wanted to learn the magic to get back at her mother/the evil witch and therefore formed a pact with Beatrice
    – Rosa’s behaviour seems to grow more and more paranoid and violent the closer we draw to the events on Rokkenjima
    – Ange’s claim that even though the magical creatures are illusions they exist as long as one beliefs

    I’m very excited to see what you will make of the rest of this arc, but I just like to remind everybody from time to time to look for clues not only in the direct circumference of the actual murders…clues can be hidden everywhere.

  3. Nayrael says:

    Well, lets be thankful that Studio DEEN is rushing through all of this.
    While I like Ange, these backstory certainly is annoying (tough I do understand that it serves a purpose later on). It would have been better if she was just an ally for one arc and then in arc after that gradually reveal the backstory. As you said, most people are not interested in backstory of a completely new character.

  4. psgels psgels says:

    Strangely enough, I didn’t think much of Maria’s back-story until you mentioned it again. I guess that at this point, I’m so much used to the fact that you shouldn’t trust anything in this series that I actually thought that it was yet another illusion from Beatrice. After all, the previous episode implied that it was Beatrice who wrote both the message in the bottle and Maria’s diary. This could have been yet another trick of her to manipulate Ange, making her Believe that Beatrice is actually pretty nice.

    But yeah, now that you mention it, it does clarify a lot. Maria didn’t simply become twisted because she was abused as a child, but because she lost her trust in her mother, who once was actually a good mother.

  5. d says:

    if you had watched without such a bias, you would find Ange to be an excellent character, I think they should have slowed down, so you can see more of how much she trained, and her life on the run, her emotions, opinions, thoughts. why should you care? maybe because you are watching raw or whatever, Ange is Battler’s younger sister, and the only member of family that survived beside that woman. She is the person that will inherit everything, head of the family. I am not going to tell you why she wasn’t at the island at the time or why Battler didn’t recognize her because the anime just skipped over it for no apparent reason. she is basically Rika of Higurashi, the person that will have to keep on going to that world till it’s fixed. if you didn’t care about Rika, and her struggle to fix everything then you might as well drop it right now because Ange will play the same role. this is why she needs alot of background, just like we needed alot for Rika. We sympathized with Rika, we felt how she felt, we cared about her, BECAUSE of all the information given about her.

  6. psgels psgels says:

    d: it’s funny to see you talking about bias when you’re clearly biased yourself. ;)

    Seriously though, the reason I loved Rika in Higurashi wasn’t necessarily because she had a lot of background, but rather the way her role as a characters was built up throughout the series: it just kept subtly changing during every arc, until everything was revealed in the end. And I just can’t compare Ange with that when she basically took up the majority of the screentime ever since she appeared, shoving nearly all of the other interesting characters aside in the process.

  7. Morgoth says:

    As far as it concerns me, I was quite satisfied with the episode. Sure that whole Ange-thing could’ve been a little bit shorter but then I think it’s interesting and necessary to see that part since Ange is the new “main protagonist” who is able to turn around the game completely – she knows magic but is willed to deny it as a means to fight Beato. I know only the anime and I wouldn’t have liked it if Ange which has appeared so suddenly and has become so important suddenly would’ve got as much background as the other characters or only insignificantly more. But I guess, like chounoke said, it also served some purpose so it’s not really wasted.

  8. Janette says:

    While I could care less about Ange, I am enjoying learning about Maria’s backstory. I find it interesting that she’s deeper then the crazy little girl.

  9. Taiyaki says:

    Ange’s backstory isn’t just there to show what a crappy childhood she had or whatever, it actually has a purpose as it explains “something” that should be pretty important in order to understand the mystery. Maybe you just haven’t noticed it yet, but it should become quite apparent by the end of the arc.

  10. Marion says:

    @psgels: About your comment with Beato – Beatrice CANNOT affect anything but the gameboard. She can only present fakes scenes on Rokkenjima: the World of 1998 is different from the gameboard and she doesn’t control it or have any type of say in what we see there. Same goes for Ange’s backstory.

    What we see are things either from Maria’s memory or scenes coming directly from Maria’s diary, which Maria wrote herself before Rokkenjima.

    Don’t be too paranoid – fake scenes will normally be indicated by the presence of magic. Or the magical characters in the scene themselves are fake (how Mammon said she was just a delusion Ange created to alleviate her lonliness).

    Also, why does Beato have to be evil? There are signs already that Beato may just be a puppet of Lambda (the tea party part in episode 18 before Ange is shown in 1998)

  11. cad says:

    I don’t have much to add to the excellent points made here by some contributors, but I would like to say, that as with any 07th Expansion series, things always start slow. Higurashi remedied this by ‘hinting’ at the future, but each arc began slow and whimsical nonetheless.

    This arc is an excellent one, that has many subtleties in it. You might give it a chance–so far, it may not have as many crazy twists (emphasis on the so far), but what it loses in played-straight twists it gains with the subtleties. I would recommend rewatching this episode once you finish the whole thing, just to really see, how much thought went into everything here.

  12. immblueversion says:

    So I take it you will only find satisfaction when they get back to Rokkenjima and start doing stuff that makes the characters go “WTF?”, thus giving you justification to say that yourself. I understand your discomfort with the sudden change of pace, but for a series that is on the verge of shifting stances from raising questions to answering them, it should not be taken lightly.

  13. battler says:

    @psgels next chapter start all the part related to rokkenjima all of this was only a background for this arc, be ready because in next chapter and when the first twilight start everything is going to be awesome =)

  14. Anon says:

    This was a well done episode. You may not like all this Maria and Ange stuff but it’s important to the plot. It also gives you a better idea how magic works in Umineko.

    With this episode over, the slow beginning of EP4 is finally over. Now it’s back to 1986 Rokkenjima. The rest of this arc is great.

  15. Rift says:

    Geez, everyone seems so vehemently protective of the anime – and I’m not sure why. Sure, the scenes in this episode were important to solving the mystery. They’re great development for Maria and Ange. They’re necessary for what’s to come, blah blah etc. That doesn’t change the fact that this was mostly just an episode setting up future events; while those events may be epic and awesome, the set up is pretty boring and bland. Yes, we got to see some “truth” behind what magic is. We got to understand a lot more about Maria. Both important… but really not particularly fun or interesting to watch. The momentum of the show has completely changed directions, so its understandable that people would find the change jarring. I love what’s to come as much as anyone else who’s played the VNs, but that doesn’t mean you have to defend every episode of the anime so vehemently.

  16. vic says:

    “I’m very excited to see what you will make of the rest of this arc, but I just like to remind everybody from time to time to look for clues not only in the direct circumference of the actual murders…clues can be hidden everywhere”

    exactly like the rabbits maria had, they seem like………. XD

  17. immblueversion says:

    @Anon

    Well, they used 3/8 of the anime arc to cover half of the VN arc. That being said, the remaining episodes should be quite juicy. But if I didn’t know anything about Umineko beforehand, I would say that they’ve developed the characters enough, now it’s time for some action. Please, Umineko veterans and/or know-it-all showoffs, say nothing.

  18. sfx says:

    Not the Ange/Rika comparisons again :/ Honestly, Higurashi and Umineko are similar series, but there are not direct parallels for everything in Higurashi in the world of Umineko. There isn’t really evidence towards a Rika or Hanyuu role existing in Umineko, or Ange being one. In fact, some aspects of Umineko seem purposely intended to mislead people with previous experience from Higurashi. And it’s a bit too early to assume that Ange is the new protagonist either.

  19. Jubbz says:

    I kinda see where you’re coming from in this whole stuff about Ange. alas, Ange’s supposed to be Battler’s little sister. She should’ve been mentioned a few times throughout the series, but thanks to deen, her introduction looks like something they pulled out their asses.

  20. Pafiume says:

    I’ve enjoyed these episodes, myself. I wonder if that’s because I was anticipating Ange in the series beforehand, though, since I read up on wiki a while ago. I really need to stop doing that. But, either way, it’s still been interesting, at least. I loved watching what happened to Maria and now I hate her less.

    Of course now I’ve read certain things in the comments and have ideas floating around in my head for the mystery.. Guess I’ll just see.

  21. Veldril says:

    I think the important of Ange and Maria’s scene in this arc is that it is needed to establish the foundation of “magic” in Umineko. To deny magic, you need to know what really is magic in the first place. With this three episodes, basic assumption of what is magic should be able to be established by now.

    Since magic in this series is different from other series (Fate/Stay Night, D&D, etc.), it is very important to know what magic is.

  22. Camario says:

    I liked it, but once again I can see why it’s not the most exciting episode for other viewers.

    As someone who is new to this franchise, it’s difficult for me to completely make up my mind yet…but I’m willing to wait and see where this arc takes all this Ange and Maria background. I hope that this will be used to bring a good conclusion. I don’t mind slow episodes full of setup and information from the past if there’s an ultimate point to it.

    So far I’m still optimistic. The episode showed a nice set of parallels between Maria and Ange, as well as reinforcing the link between magic and the power of belief, which has been a pretty important theme in this series.

    I’m hoping that we get finally back to 1986 next week, but the events of 1998 are getting more interesting as well.

  23. Lloyd says:

    Oh come on!

    Just get to the Damn dinner so we find out if Kinzo actually kept up with his word and turns up for dinner or not!

    I just want to know who the bloody murderer(s) are now so I can start speculating how they’ve been doing it this whole time!

    That aside… isn’t Ange accepting magic meaning that she’s now against battler? Or is Meta-Ange still emoing over not being able to get Battler back to her life?

  24. laala says:

    I have the feeling the most important hint in this episode is that for the furnitures to obey an order to kill, the intent to kill must be present in the witch. Now that we know Maria is planning to take revenge on her mother…

  25. cad says:

    @lloyd: i’m thinking battler isn’t trying to prove witches don’t exist (that would be a probatio diabolica) but that there was no magic involved in the rokk. disaster. so ange can still believe in magic and help him so long as she doesn’t believe magic was involved in the murder incident.

  26. Niw says:

    I reckon you haven’t read the intro message of EP4?

    Good Morning.
    What a surprise that you still haven’t been forced to surrender.
    By this point, I must expect a lot from you.

    Games do not take place only on the game board.
    This time, how about taking a little peek at the outside?
    The say that if you know your enemy, you need not fight a hundred battles.

    The difficulty depends on you.
    Your style of fighting up until now will influence the difficulty.

    Infer what you want from the bolded part.

  27. Westlo says:

    I like how everyone’s acting like Ange was really foreshadowed in the VN’s when she was mentioned in one liners twice before she showed up and numerous scenes acted like she didn’t exist period.

    Jessica saying it’s good all the cousins are together again.. um what about Ange.. you know your cousin who’s been going the last 6 years? Why isn’t Maria asking where Ange is? Ange seemed to look up to her and they are the closest in age yet she doesn’t react at all to no Ange?

    You can hardly blame DEEN for her piss poor introduction (in regards to foreshadowing) when the novel itself did a poor job. Majority of players wouldn’t have even remembered Ange period while reading the novels, it’s just another case of revisionist history.

    “This backstory of the past three episodes could easily have been squeezed in one episode, just like what the creators did with the first arcs.”

    HAHAHAHAHA this is like 5 hours worth of VN material. Don’t worry most VN players were rather “meh” to Ange and Maria’s back stories as well. Everyone pretty much wanted more Beatrice and Battler after episode 3 and than Kinzo finally starts to do something and we get hit with this long ass backstory.

  28. Niw says:

    >Don’t worry most VN players were rather “meh” to Ange and Maria’s back stories as well. Everyone pretty much wanted more Beatrice and Battler after episode 3 and than Kinzo finally starts to do something and we get hit with this long ass backstory.

    Of course, that perfectly and obviously explains why Ange got 2nd place in the official EP4 popularity contest. Yup.

  29. Rika says:

    @Niw

    Well, just because people found her long backstory boring doesn’t neccesarily mean that they don’t care/hate Ange.

  30. 4saken says:

    True, I didn’t hate this part but I was still quite impatient when reading it :P

  31. ebisu says:

    Maria’s mother has really something wrong with her head and Maria gets very twisted because of the traumatic situation. If Maria becomes mentally capable of killing like it seems, that means a lot of things.

    Well just a theory but I think that at least in the first arc she was together with the assassin. That would explain the accurate knowledge of magic of the assassin and the help she gives to make it look as a Beatrice’s killing scenario. The way everything goes makes quite sense this way in the first arc.
    She should have forged the pact or alliance when she receives the letter and umbrella when alone in the rain(the first of the misterious actions). Maybe I’m wrong but :).

  32. Westlo says:

    “Well, just because people found her long backstory boring doesn’t neccesarily mean that they don’t care/hate Ange. ”

    Pretty much.. I really like Ange but I couldn’t wait for it to get past her backstory and get back to the island. And it’s not like later events after the backstory might have given her more votes.. no of course not :p

  33. Narkins says:

    The backstory was dull as hell in the game as well, but its important for the story.

    Anyway another BEST MOTHER EVER award for Maria, its been a long way since she was introduced as a nice person in the first ep

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Lenlo
Oh your right, it was Deen. I got them mixed up. JC staff has Food Wars. Thats what I get for peeking at a list of anime during work.
Anonymous1422679
That being said, no reason why you can't watch the OVAs before the TV series as well.
Anonymous1422679
@SuperMario Not at all, the Maho Yome OVAs are technically anime original (made with plot and design contributions by the original author though). The majority of the 3 episodes are a prologue but it probably makes more sense to have read/watched a bit of the original series to have context of the world setting and present day characters who also appeared.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Rakugo was deen I thought? Not JC staff?
Lenlo
@Aidan, yeah its a dark day. Animation will go down because the new director cant call in a bunch of freelance friends and im not to excited about the directing.

Still, they made quality pieces like Rakugo. I can hope.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I'm at least thankful to be getting a non 12s/pg action film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember the church scene in the first one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still wish the action scenes didn't have that modern editting though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I took too long to get Colin Firth back into the story too.
Though the idea of Colin Firth of all actors being in a film like this is amusing in itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also saw the new kingsman recently, when it focuses on the action its almost up there with the first film, I liked Julianne Moore's villain better than Sam Jacksons and wanted her to have more screentime, the Elton John running joke kind of grew on me. It was overall funny without being hilarious. but theres a whole chunk in the middle of the film I'd have cut
AidanAK47
Seen Kingsman 2. I think the critics are being too harsh with this one as the movies fine. Difinitely not as good as the first flim and far too long a running time but it has its fun points.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Oh you must be jokin...oh god it's real. No Shingo Natsume either. Yep looks like the second season is going to be a major visual downgrade.
Lenlo
Hmm, so One Punch Man is getting a 2nd Season, but its being made by JC Staff instead of Madhouse.
SuperMario
A question: Do we need to watch Mahoutsukai no Yome OVAs before watching its first episode?
SuperMario
@Amagi: they better have a second season. The way it ends now I don't even have any motivation to write a full review. I'm not really optimistic over it having a second cour because if the producers were confident about its chance, they would've greenlit it already.
Amagi
@SuperMario: Seems like the official radio confirmed PriPri might get a second season if the BD and/or game sales are good enough. - BD sales seem to be around 7k at the moment, but it looks like many only ordered them now, after the last episode, so it might be more.
KTravlos
@Aidan. Oh I did. Thank you for reminding me. I will write the review.
AidanAK47
@Travlos, Just in case you missed it, there is a reply to you earlier in the chatbox.
KTravlos
Kakeguiri also ended. In the end the anime original ending was not really an ending, but just a fan pleasing excursion. The integrity of the manga story remains. It was a good adaption, and I liked it as it brought to life the parts of the manga that make it interesting to me. Also a great Opening and Ending. Good show.
KTravlos
And to sum it up. I think this was a great series. All its episodes were good.
KTravlos
I actually am ok with the PP ending. The 12 episode series is self contained. Sure there are many future potential stories to pursue, but I felt there was enough closure to make the series a good series. This is because the next step of the narrative is really so long term as being more LOGH material than PP (the story of the ascension of Princesss to the throne, and then the story of her reforms)
Lenlo
Alright, I found the read more tag. Now my tendency to write more than I should will be contained.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Got to play catch-up but I am guessing it was very much a non ending?
SuperMario
Gosh, is that how Princess Principal end?
SuperMario
@KAiser: I really have a mixed feeling watching Assayas's films. I always find his works toe touch into pretentious area. Still have much more films from him I want to watch though so that opinion might change
SuperMario
@Kaiser: As Tears go By surprised me a little considering how straightforward it is. It's Wong's most by the book HK romance but it was one of his most commercial success. After this, the studio allowed him to do things he like and that was when he gone banana with his styles
SuperMario
not a fan. Can't even tell the difference between turtle and tortoise
Anonymous1420257
i like turtles
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I hadn't expected some of the dry/dark humour in sils Maria, I liked the themes/aging angst and its comments on hollywood in parts even if it needed to go a bit deeper. Stewart is a revelation in it. That X-men parody scene was fucking funny lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I actually kind of liked As tears go by. Mostly because of my experiences with hong-kong action flicks, much as I like John Woos films, the melodrama he tries to sell between the action never worked for me and left me just waiting around for the action to come round again. Wong was able to put genuine emotion into the hong-kong action film with this one.
Amagi
@Aidan: Somehow. The problem is rather Haruki anyway and it's canonically part of her character. Kei becomes more likeable IMO and the events get much more complicated and/or serious plus there are a bunch of characters getting added to the protag team which makes the whole thing more dynamic. The best comes when some other character joins around the middle though.
Anonymous1416115
Personally, I can digest the emotionless dialogue in the first place since I watch the series with the mindset that the main characters are innately "broken" in some ways.
Anonymous1416115
@Aidan Hmm...one might consider the emotion level increases in main characters' dialogues for Sakurada Reset as baby steps depending on how dramatic one expects a character to act in other animes. (The emotions increase do exist though) There are certainly emotional scenes and characters do develop in ways where one can't just say they're 100% robots.
AidanAK47
@Travlos, If you so wish then you can write a review for Bahamut virgin soul. Just let me know if you are up for it. If so I recommend writing it up on google docs, then when you have it done I can give your account contributer status and you can paste it into a post for us to look over and publish on the site. For screenshots our standard size is H240 X W138.
AidanAK47
Did they ever fix that emotionless dialgoue issue they had going on?
Anonymous1415748
You are not alone. The second half of Sakurada Reset made me so glad that I stuck with the series.
Amagi
Oh and I totally forogt Reset ended now too. Not sure if I am the only fan of that but the whole second half was one of the better things I've seen this year.
Amagi
Okay now thinking three others came into my mind, but that's still not much. A lot of series started interesting and turned out mediocre or cheap after a while.
Amagi
Considering that I love Made in Abyss, PrinPrin, Fate/Apo (so far) and 18if too guess this season was better than I've expected. 2016 was kind of a let down imo, animewise. Off the top of my head I only remember Rakugo, Fune wo Amu and Bokudake I think.
Amagi
I didn't expect to like Virgin Soul as much as I do. Especially the last ~5 episodes got me. The weird thing is that I was disappointed by S1 actually.
SuperMario
@Travlos: I don't mind if you do a guess review on Virgin Soul, but let's me check with other admins first.

On Virgin Soul, I'm not sure if I like the bew development. It suddenly does a 180 degree turn on King Charriot, which I don't feel rewarding.
KTravlos
Kakegurui will have an anime original ending. It might be better than the ongoing manga. We shall see. An enjoyable foray.

Virgin Soul is going for a nice explosive ending. If no one writes a review, I would be willing to write one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*kind of
Kaiser-Eoghan
While its very much in the shadow of the first and the protaganist started out kind annoying, I kind of got caught up in the spectacle and sentimentality of gunbuster 2.
KTravlos
Urasawa is preparing a new manga
KTravlos
yes the episode where Julian watched the documentary was fun. The Caligula like character comes from one of the lesser episodes of the series, when Kircheis beats up some rebelling third rate noble in the Empire.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Goddammit, fail, it just changed the colour of the login name...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I declare in the red truth that the next anime I shall watch is Diebuster.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From what little I saw, I remember a Caligula like character in one episode.
Anonymous1409409
I remember there's an episode where Julian just goes on Space Netflix and just watches a documentary. I actually liked that lol
KTravlos
yup, a LOGH that run like the Altair anime would be bad. It needs to show the sweep of history
AidanAK47
@Anon, I actually liked that aspect. It made the history of the world feel real.
Anonymous1409027
It's compressible, as there are many episodes of buildup, but that's where so many of the interesting details and depth of planning become evident. Some of those episodes read like a history textbook though, so we'll see how the new adaptation handles them,
Anonymous1409027
*pleasantly
KTravlos
Tytania was ok.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the Amakusa Shiro reference in the fate review, I've seen a film about him from the 50s , theres also an old josei manga where the protagonist ends up becoming essentially regarded as him.
KTravlos
Hi Kaiser. Supposedly this is a re-imagining of the original story. Thus independent of the OVAs (old serieis). What exactly re-imagining means is something I and you do not know. We shall see. But it does mean that you do not need to watch the old series to enjoy this one. The OVA was definetly more expansive than the novels. So my guess is they will stick to the novels.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There's another anime, called Tytania based on his novels but I haven't seen that series.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As in condensable in the way nothing much is lost? I assume there are fillers in the original?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm indifferent to the aesthetics of the new version. What I'm hoping for is that it will be accessible to newcomers and that I'll be able to jump on to the old series where the new one leaves off. I've seen very little of the original and it was a long time ago, is there any way the story is condensable?
KTravlos
The fact that they stayed away from the disgusting new manga is great. I am not too keen on the CGI ships, but they also did not rankle. It looks like it will honor the spirit of the old series, and I cannot ask for more. I am a massive LOGH fan. And the new video out gives me hope of revisiting one of the greatest sci-fi/historical settings out there. I am happy.
AidanAK47
I hope they are using the old anime as a base and not the new Manga adaption. As that Manga adaption is seriously lacking.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I like that they blinged up the space battles which is good because those things could get tiresome. But I really hate the design of Yang Wenli. They made him look so much younger and bishi. I don't think i could take this guy seriously if he started one of Wenli's signature hypothesis.
Anonymous1408919
Thoughts on that new LOGH PV? My expectations were low, so I'm presently surprised. Obviously they made everybody pretty boys, and Mamoro Miyano is voicing Reinhard I believe. But art and animation actually looks pretty decent overall. It's a PV, and LOGH's best quality is it's story and characters, so we'll have to see if they remain faithful or not. But it's nice to see it get a visual overhaul.
AidanAK47
By the way this site has the first chapters but check the other versions to find them.
http://mangapark.me/manga/tsurezure-children-wakabayashi-toshiya
AidanAK47
@Mario, Indeed. It's also a pity that over half the couples in the manga were not featured. We only got a small taste of Patricia.
SuperMario
Or maybe I'll try to read the manga. The last time I checked it online, the site doesn't have its first few chapters
SuperMario
@Aidan: man, Tsurezure Children sure is sweet. Really sad to see it ends
AidanAK47
So that's the end of Tsurezure Children.
....I'm gonna need a second season. Now.
....NOW GODDAMNIT! NOW!
KTravlos
As I said I understand the criticisms to RE:Creator, but ultimately I enjoyed most of the show. It could had been better, and it is a missed chance. But I have seen worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I gave up halfway through, there weren't even enough action scenes and those that were didn't justify waiting around for.
AidanAK47
Could have at least delivered on the action but that was rendered pointless due to the majority of the cast turning good and Altair being a complete cheat character.
AidanAK47
It would have been really fun to see characters discuss their stories with their creators or indulge in what our world has to offer but they really glossed over that part.
AidanAK47
It really should have gone deeper into the whole meta aspect introducing anime characters to the real world. Like they did with Mamika's powers being ridiculously destructive when outside a kid friendly setting.
AidanAK47
@Puran, I at least like the message of the final episode. But as for the show itself it was just missed potential on a lot of levels. I wanted Anime Genre battle royale and instead got a secondhand Shirobako with a crap shounen anime attached.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have been forgiving of Anno as I've gotten older.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also just re-watched gunbuster, I'd previously dismissed the ova after a few episodes when I was a teenager, I'd found it too slow, didn't have that issue with the 90 minute version I just finished. I've never see the sequels.
Lenlo
Ill have to finish Creators... at some point
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've been dipping back into the Lupin franchise, Gold of babylon was particularly screwball, kind of ridiculous comedy caper/adventure thing you just have to run with....turns out it was directed by a live action filmaker I especially like who made bizzare noir films in the 60s.
Puran
So that explains why Meteora had so much air time in Re:Creators. It's her story....

I hated the ending and I disliked the anime overall.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was a genuine surprise to see that Assayas decided to make a film framed around hentai =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I loved how incoherent demonlover was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The criticisms I'll give wind river, is a slight inconsistent performance from Renner and that very awkwardly inserted flashback scene.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: on Wind River, I agree it's a well-executed case of the week drama, although there are some plot pregressions that I don't get (how did they find out about the man's corspe again?). About Demonlover, man, the film gives me a chill down my spine. Heartless. And a bit misogynist.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: as much as I loved Wong (yeah I too prefer him over Malick), sometimes I do think Western cinema give him too much praise that sadly overshadow other Asian directors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wong is important to me as a hong-kong filmaker, he offers something entirely different from the whole Woo/Lam Hong komg movies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On a more positive note Maggie Cheung did mention that she felt her early work with Wong was when she first truly became a proper actress.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I had no idea he had such a sad background.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*investigation drama
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that film also marked/ signified a rather sad period of Hongkong showbiz. Leslie Cheung badically lived the live of the protagonist and commited suicide in 1997. His girlfriend on screen, during the filming, was kidnaped, raped and taken topless picture. The damnest thing is that everyone knowed the culprit but did nothing, and in the press it was just deemed as "kipnapped and assaulted"
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wind river was a big surprise for me, just goes to show that with the right execution an ordinary police drama movie can be elevated higher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thats the interesting thing, tracking a directors career.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just binge watched the new dominion tank police ovas , admittedly these are kind of reptitive and extremely silly but its hard to hate on something so shamelessly fun that made me feel like a child again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: you said it there. DoBW is rather raw and unpolished but that's one of the reason why I am drawn to it more compare to his other works.
AidanAK47
In all honesty, it would be nice to finally see a continuation after fusion as all games after that have just been adding chapters in-between.
Vonter
Finally I wonder, if Metroid Prime 4 will definitely branch out of the main Metroid's continuity. It's curious how an interquel subseries is still going to add things in between the first and the second entries in the main franchise.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - I think is nice we can see both takes. Especially since neither one despite a few qualms are still very solid entries for this franchise. I just hope Metroid moves forward, as IMO this is the only game that really needed a facelift do to the heavy limitations of the gameboy. And I hope the secret gallery at the end is teasing how the producer plans to move the plot forward.
AidanAK47
I thought it might be like that but it's good to know they are at least on a close level. I didn't really want Samus Returns to replace AM2R as the "Definitive" version of Metroid 2. Mostly because a lot of love was put into AM2R andit came at a point when it felt Nintendo didn't give a crap about Metroid.
Vonter
Like Zero Mission there's something added to Samus Returns but I'll just leave it at that.
Vonter
I think both have strong points. Samus Returns have better boss battles, gameplay mechanics and more intense action pieces. AM2R IMO has more atmosphere, takes advantage of elements Nintendo don't even try like the Federation subplot, and the ending portion narratively has more heart in AM2R, while in Samus Returns it feels mostly like "the final level".
Vonter
I also did got lost a couple of times in Samus Returns and aside from the big water section in AM2R, the latter is more linear game.
Vonter
I think the controls in Samus Returns bring more to the table though. The 360 aiming makes for better ways to shoot enemies and some of the bosses take advantage of that. If it weren't for the 3DS giving hand cramps because you're holding L and R at several points it'll be completely the most ideal way to play.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - AM2R is very good, I think it has the advantage that because it uses sprites IMO backgrounds and enemies are more vibrant and easier to appreciate. The Federation soldiers are better executed in AM2R and that secret section with the ship is very eery.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, How does it stack up to AM2R? I bought it and am still waiting on it to be delivered but I have the feeling that AM2R would be the better game when comparing.
Vonter
I took me 12 hours to 100% and I've heard the best ending is beating it in less than 4 hours. I think unlike Zero Mission item percentage don't matter, it's mainly to unlock an art gallery.
Vonter
My main criticism is this being a 3DS game. Small enemies can be hard to see or appreciate. And I think the 3DS wasn't made for heavy action packed games like this or Smash Bros. I got the rubber from the circle pad come off in two occasions. Also unless there was something big in the background, several areas felt lacking in detail. Still Samus and the bosses look good.
Vonter
In terms of difficulty, the game has the enemies packing more damage than in other 2D Metroids. Is difficult in the sense than you can't tank damage as in other iterations, you have to be aware of enemy behavior and bosses mainly get easier do to familiarizing with their patterns, since I did die a lot each time I faced a new boss. And got used to kill them faster as I went along.
Vonter
Ok, so I beat Samus Returns. It's quite good. Unlike Fusion that had dialogue at midst the gameplay. Samus Returns only has a prologue of exposition and any cutscenes mainly accentuate the reactions of Samus confronting a new enemy. The level design is dense, despite having isolated areas like in Fusion and the original Samus Returns, each area is very mazelike.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: =< Awww I kind of like demonlover actually despite all its flaws, it had great sound design and had this cold, clinical, un-nerving mood to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Days of being wild does feel a bit un-realized/un-polished/rough compared to his other work definitely but its probably the rawest I've seen from him and that has its appeal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Haven't seen farewell my concubine come to think of it. Regarding the scifi element I felt I embraced it more further into the film when it started to intermingle more.
While I am more forgiving toward Malick's recent films than most, that decline in quality means I have to pick Wong.
KTravlos
by the way in RE:Creators we probably will be getting a future series focusing on the hunt for Magane :p Meteora probably playing the role of detective. I also bet her novel will be wordy and heavy in exposition :p
KTravlos
i.e his end game might had been a cross-species revolution against him anyway. We will see
KTravlos
In Bahamut Chris proves to not be totally evil, but he is totally crazy. That said I am seeing one of my hunches getting supported, the hunch was that his cruelty towards daemons was with the purpose of bringing them down enough that they would be willing to work with humans as euals (As they are in Jean's army) and thus via that create a more unified world. I
KTravlos
RE: Creators has come to its end. I know the problems everyone has with it, and while it failed to raise to the level of exceptional show, I loved it. As I said, it had been years since a show kept me so excited episode after episode. They blew it at some point, but ultimately for me this is an en-joyful show, and one I would happily binge watch in the future again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: question for you though, between these two directors, which one do you prefer: Wong Kar-Wai or Terrance Malick?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: if you enjoyed both 2046 and In the Mood for Love, by all mean check out Days of Being Wild. The trio forms a loose trilogy and Days of Being Wild was the first film that Wong began his unique unconventional style. It's one of my personal favorite of Wong and it's a chance for you to watch the late Leslie Cheung acted (you might watch him already in Farewell My Concubine)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: 2046 is indeed a passionate film, and one of his best looking film. He tried something different in 2046 too, experimented with scifi (one of the best part in the film for me)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's stritcly Wong Kar Wai's romance we're talking about, since I don't find the rest of Chinese take on romance that interesting. Romance or melodrama is one of his main theme throughout his career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was slightly overly long however.
I've also seen chungking express, in the mood for love and fallen angels. I think this Chinese take on romance is really clicking with me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also thought it was a very passionette film and I love how Kar-wong-wai uses the music in it. I also think its one of his best looking films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I had a look at that Chinese film 2046, very effectively melancholic take on fleeting relationships while also successfully being quite sensual while staying classy and without ever showing too much. Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung are two beautiful people =P
SuperMario
for those who still want to catch up with 18if, episode 11 has a huge recap, while wrapping up the show with a new overarching plot. Hopefully they don't pull another Matrix here
SuperWooper
It's shounen-y for sure. The competitions have been my least favorite parts of the show so far. If you're still watching, you might appreciate it more once the Tenpei Cup is over.
Anonymous1399692
Damn Ballroom looks so good. But I really can't enjoy it despite that I want to. It has too many of these typical shounen moments and plot points I can't stand.
Anonymous1399684
Omae wa mou shindeiru
Lenlo
Mononoke is actually what made me find Ayakashi. Also a good show.
SuperMario
Regarding Ayakashi, I only watched the Mononoke segment
SuperMario
"It was a long, long trip, and we're coming finally to the end of the journey. Thank you, Manoyama and Chupacabra. And thank you, 5 EURO" - Sandal-san.
Lenlo
Ayakashi was great for me Kaiser. I enjoyed my time with it
Vonter212
@AidanAK47 - The hard aspect has been commented in several reviews with bosses being able to easily kill you. (Although in my experience it might be just getting a pattern). In terms of length most 2D games can be beaten under 3 hours. This one seems to clock at at least 6 to 15 if you want to collect everything. Then again, we'll see in subsequent playthroughs.
AidanAK47
`@Vonter. It's out now but I don't remember seeing anyone claim it's the longest hardest entry 2D wise.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Going to watch new dominion tank police next and read violence action and Oddman 11.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It took me years to get round to it, but I finally watched Ayakashi and as expected like most anthologies, again its mixed, the first is a solid ghost story that improves after a weak start, but that third one with the cat spirit was great, really liked how experimental that looked.
Vonter
Soo a new Metroid comes out this week. It is said, it's the longest, hardest entry in regards to the 2D iterations. Still not as great as Super, and depending on your fanaticism it might or not be as good as Zero Mission.
SuperMario
But they didn't pull that scene off too well. It's just... unmemorable. In fact the whole show is very unremarkable. Now only 1 episode left I might as well finish it but I won't give it a full review
SuperMario
Koi to Uso has been disappointing so far. Episode 10 featured the sequence that i was looking forward the most in the manga: the former classmate tells the one sided crush of the main girl from her POV. For a romance that contrived and manipulated like this one, hearing this from the third person's perspective prove to be more powerful
Vonter
@HelghastKillzone - Good luck with that. I almost had my car's engine damaged since it has been raining heavily where I live. Had to ask for help the next day to pull it out of mud. Still not as bad as the other three cars that did get stuck in the water.
HelghastKillzone
Dealing with work and the total loss of my car really sucks at the moment so I'm quite tied up for this week.
KTravlos
I do agree to a point, but to be frank all the episodes of Princess Principal to date have been so solid I have a hard time deciding. Episode 5 though was still the best from a holistic point (action, direction, music etc) was the one introducing Chise
SuperMario
Agree. Dorothy has the biggest heart out of all the spy girls. Also "help" that her episodes are all melodramatic.
Amagi
This episode of PrinPrin showed again that Dorothy is the best character by far. Not just herself but her episodes as well are better written than the rest if you ask me.
KTravlos
It just hit me. The characters in Princess Principal may be very well working for IngSoc :p
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, in the seven chapters it's only really two of them that contain dark shocking content. Chapter three being the biggest one in that regard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read a comment where someone said subahibi shocked them more than saya no uta. While I haven't played it yet, I have seen some of a letsplay...it lleft me thinking....how many hours until this actually gets good/truly unhinged .
AidanAK47
After Reading SubaHibi, Made in Abyss's dark turn didn't shock me too much. Maybe I just got desensitised. I will have a review of SubaHibi hopefully up in a week though to clarify my feelings on it after just finishing it, It was interesting but disappointing.
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