Posted by psgels on 19 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Well, the third arc was awesome: it had a new twist in just about every new episode and kept holding the balls in the air with increasingly astonishing plot twists. In comparison, the past two episodes have really been a let-down. Especially considering how the creators have the arduous task of filling about 50 hours of visual Novel in just 26 episodes, they really could have used this episode better.

My problem with the past three episodes is simple: who the heck is Ange? Why the heck should I care about her? And why the heck does she have more background than nearly all of the other characters so far? This backstory of the past three episodes could easily have been squeezed in one episode, just like what the creators did with the first arcs. That would actually have left plenty of room for background on some of the other characters who deserved this, instead of this rather one-sided mini-arc that’s just there to show that Ange feels lonely and gets bullied by really, really, really stereotypical evil classmates.

The fun in Umineko comes from creating the theories and the crazy out of control plot in which you really have to guess what’s going on, and you can trust nobody. This episode… I just can’t make anything from it.
Rating: – (Disappointing)

33 Responses

  1. Marion says:

    Ange is Battler’s younger sister. For some reason the anime decided not to mention her until almost the near end of the arc, when in the VN Ange had been mentioned several times before she appeared.

    Anyways, they’re trying to show some perpective to everything from OUTSIDE the gameboard, since every time everyone died and Ange was just adopted by Kasumi, possibly being killed not to long afterwards.

    But what did you think of the rest of the episode? Ange wasn’t the only one shown – we also got Maria and an explanation as to her creepy persona: all this happened pre-Rokkenjima, which means Sakutaro being ripped apart by Rosa happens in EVERY arc before they all go to the island. And you can see Maria being angry and showing off an evil face for the first time in the arc.

    As for why Ange is being so looked at in this arc there is a reason. The anime didn’t mention it, but Lambda implied that because Ange is just a special outside piece (sort of like a trump card) it means that when the 4th game ends Ange would be discarded.

  2. chounokoe says:

    As usual I won’t spoil anything that lies beyond this point, but I want to try to defend this episode.

    I think you can imagine that many people had their problems with this part of the 4th VN, too. Everyone was expecting it to jump into a furious final chapter and we got half a novel explaining the tragedy of Ushiromiya Ange.
    While I personally also think that Ange’s could have been made much much briefer, the problem is that in almost every scene there is some stuff that is vital to how the world of Umineko and it’s concept of magic is constructed.
    And for the first time we are witnessing the events outside of the stage of Rokkenjima…we are witnessing things that are most likely not influenced by the storytelling of a maniac witch.

    I find it just a bit sad, that the conclusion of Maria’s background didn’t draw that much attention from you, because I pretty much liked how they adapted it. As was already mentioned, it explains quite a lot about her rather creepy demeanor on the island…as she is just a bitter child and not obeying her mother is just her powerless way to get back at her.

    The problem is also, there is no other background that could be covered right now, the other characters ARE rather bland compared to Ange, as like in many crime-mysteries, we can’t know that much about them, as it would maybe spoil the mystery. In that regards Umineko holds for some readers maybe the same problem as an Agatha Christie novel, namely the rather stretched out introduction and build up, with only clues but no real closure in itself.

    Regarding the mystery, there sure are some things in this episode which you could use, but which are maybe a bit harder to see at first sight.
    I emphasize again, those are not spoilers, just things that another person noticed at this point, you can make of them what you want.

    – Marias gang of magical forest animals are bunnies.
    – Maria wanted to learn the magic to get back at her mother/the evil witch and therefore formed a pact with Beatrice
    – Rosa’s behaviour seems to grow more and more paranoid and violent the closer we draw to the events on Rokkenjima
    – Ange’s claim that even though the magical creatures are illusions they exist as long as one beliefs

    I’m very excited to see what you will make of the rest of this arc, but I just like to remind everybody from time to time to look for clues not only in the direct circumference of the actual murders…clues can be hidden everywhere.

  3. Nayrael says:

    Well, lets be thankful that Studio DEEN is rushing through all of this.
    While I like Ange, these backstory certainly is annoying (tough I do understand that it serves a purpose later on). It would have been better if she was just an ally for one arc and then in arc after that gradually reveal the backstory. As you said, most people are not interested in backstory of a completely new character.

  4. psgels psgels says:

    Strangely enough, I didn’t think much of Maria’s back-story until you mentioned it again. I guess that at this point, I’m so much used to the fact that you shouldn’t trust anything in this series that I actually thought that it was yet another illusion from Beatrice. After all, the previous episode implied that it was Beatrice who wrote both the message in the bottle and Maria’s diary. This could have been yet another trick of her to manipulate Ange, making her Believe that Beatrice is actually pretty nice.

    But yeah, now that you mention it, it does clarify a lot. Maria didn’t simply become twisted because she was abused as a child, but because she lost her trust in her mother, who once was actually a good mother.

  5. d says:

    if you had watched without such a bias, you would find Ange to be an excellent character, I think they should have slowed down, so you can see more of how much she trained, and her life on the run, her emotions, opinions, thoughts. why should you care? maybe because you are watching raw or whatever, Ange is Battler’s younger sister, and the only member of family that survived beside that woman. She is the person that will inherit everything, head of the family. I am not going to tell you why she wasn’t at the island at the time or why Battler didn’t recognize her because the anime just skipped over it for no apparent reason. she is basically Rika of Higurashi, the person that will have to keep on going to that world till it’s fixed. if you didn’t care about Rika, and her struggle to fix everything then you might as well drop it right now because Ange will play the same role. this is why she needs alot of background, just like we needed alot for Rika. We sympathized with Rika, we felt how she felt, we cared about her, BECAUSE of all the information given about her.

  6. psgels psgels says:

    d: it’s funny to see you talking about bias when you’re clearly biased yourself. ;)

    Seriously though, the reason I loved Rika in Higurashi wasn’t necessarily because she had a lot of background, but rather the way her role as a characters was built up throughout the series: it just kept subtly changing during every arc, until everything was revealed in the end. And I just can’t compare Ange with that when she basically took up the majority of the screentime ever since she appeared, shoving nearly all of the other interesting characters aside in the process.

  7. Morgoth says:

    As far as it concerns me, I was quite satisfied with the episode. Sure that whole Ange-thing could’ve been a little bit shorter but then I think it’s interesting and necessary to see that part since Ange is the new “main protagonist” who is able to turn around the game completely – she knows magic but is willed to deny it as a means to fight Beato. I know only the anime and I wouldn’t have liked it if Ange which has appeared so suddenly and has become so important suddenly would’ve got as much background as the other characters or only insignificantly more. But I guess, like chounoke said, it also served some purpose so it’s not really wasted.

  8. Janette says:

    While I could care less about Ange, I am enjoying learning about Maria’s backstory. I find it interesting that she’s deeper then the crazy little girl.

  9. Taiyaki says:

    Ange’s backstory isn’t just there to show what a crappy childhood she had or whatever, it actually has a purpose as it explains “something” that should be pretty important in order to understand the mystery. Maybe you just haven’t noticed it yet, but it should become quite apparent by the end of the arc.

  10. Marion says:

    @psgels: About your comment with Beato – Beatrice CANNOT affect anything but the gameboard. She can only present fakes scenes on Rokkenjima: the World of 1998 is different from the gameboard and she doesn’t control it or have any type of say in what we see there. Same goes for Ange’s backstory.

    What we see are things either from Maria’s memory or scenes coming directly from Maria’s diary, which Maria wrote herself before Rokkenjima.

    Don’t be too paranoid – fake scenes will normally be indicated by the presence of magic. Or the magical characters in the scene themselves are fake (how Mammon said she was just a delusion Ange created to alleviate her lonliness).

    Also, why does Beato have to be evil? There are signs already that Beato may just be a puppet of Lambda (the tea party part in episode 18 before Ange is shown in 1998)

  11. cad says:

    I don’t have much to add to the excellent points made here by some contributors, but I would like to say, that as with any 07th Expansion series, things always start slow. Higurashi remedied this by ‘hinting’ at the future, but each arc began slow and whimsical nonetheless.

    This arc is an excellent one, that has many subtleties in it. You might give it a chance–so far, it may not have as many crazy twists (emphasis on the so far), but what it loses in played-straight twists it gains with the subtleties. I would recommend rewatching this episode once you finish the whole thing, just to really see, how much thought went into everything here.

  12. immblueversion says:

    So I take it you will only find satisfaction when they get back to Rokkenjima and start doing stuff that makes the characters go “WTF?”, thus giving you justification to say that yourself. I understand your discomfort with the sudden change of pace, but for a series that is on the verge of shifting stances from raising questions to answering them, it should not be taken lightly.

  13. battler says:

    @psgels next chapter start all the part related to rokkenjima all of this was only a background for this arc, be ready because in next chapter and when the first twilight start everything is going to be awesome =)

  14. Anon says:

    This was a well done episode. You may not like all this Maria and Ange stuff but it’s important to the plot. It also gives you a better idea how magic works in Umineko.

    With this episode over, the slow beginning of EP4 is finally over. Now it’s back to 1986 Rokkenjima. The rest of this arc is great.

  15. Rift says:

    Geez, everyone seems so vehemently protective of the anime – and I’m not sure why. Sure, the scenes in this episode were important to solving the mystery. They’re great development for Maria and Ange. They’re necessary for what’s to come, blah blah etc. That doesn’t change the fact that this was mostly just an episode setting up future events; while those events may be epic and awesome, the set up is pretty boring and bland. Yes, we got to see some “truth” behind what magic is. We got to understand a lot more about Maria. Both important… but really not particularly fun or interesting to watch. The momentum of the show has completely changed directions, so its understandable that people would find the change jarring. I love what’s to come as much as anyone else who’s played the VNs, but that doesn’t mean you have to defend every episode of the anime so vehemently.

  16. vic says:

    “I’m very excited to see what you will make of the rest of this arc, but I just like to remind everybody from time to time to look for clues not only in the direct circumference of the actual murders…clues can be hidden everywhere”

    exactly like the rabbits maria had, they seem like………. XD

  17. immblueversion says:

    @Anon

    Well, they used 3/8 of the anime arc to cover half of the VN arc. That being said, the remaining episodes should be quite juicy. But if I didn’t know anything about Umineko beforehand, I would say that they’ve developed the characters enough, now it’s time for some action. Please, Umineko veterans and/or know-it-all showoffs, say nothing.

  18. sfx says:

    Not the Ange/Rika comparisons again :/ Honestly, Higurashi and Umineko are similar series, but there are not direct parallels for everything in Higurashi in the world of Umineko. There isn’t really evidence towards a Rika or Hanyuu role existing in Umineko, or Ange being one. In fact, some aspects of Umineko seem purposely intended to mislead people with previous experience from Higurashi. And it’s a bit too early to assume that Ange is the new protagonist either.

  19. Jubbz says:

    I kinda see where you’re coming from in this whole stuff about Ange. alas, Ange’s supposed to be Battler’s little sister. She should’ve been mentioned a few times throughout the series, but thanks to deen, her introduction looks like something they pulled out their asses.

  20. Pafiume says:

    I’ve enjoyed these episodes, myself. I wonder if that’s because I was anticipating Ange in the series beforehand, though, since I read up on wiki a while ago. I really need to stop doing that. But, either way, it’s still been interesting, at least. I loved watching what happened to Maria and now I hate her less.

    Of course now I’ve read certain things in the comments and have ideas floating around in my head for the mystery.. Guess I’ll just see.

  21. Veldril says:

    I think the important of Ange and Maria’s scene in this arc is that it is needed to establish the foundation of “magic” in Umineko. To deny magic, you need to know what really is magic in the first place. With this three episodes, basic assumption of what is magic should be able to be established by now.

    Since magic in this series is different from other series (Fate/Stay Night, D&D, etc.), it is very important to know what magic is.

  22. Camario says:

    I liked it, but once again I can see why it’s not the most exciting episode for other viewers.

    As someone who is new to this franchise, it’s difficult for me to completely make up my mind yet…but I’m willing to wait and see where this arc takes all this Ange and Maria background. I hope that this will be used to bring a good conclusion. I don’t mind slow episodes full of setup and information from the past if there’s an ultimate point to it.

    So far I’m still optimistic. The episode showed a nice set of parallels between Maria and Ange, as well as reinforcing the link between magic and the power of belief, which has been a pretty important theme in this series.

    I’m hoping that we get finally back to 1986 next week, but the events of 1998 are getting more interesting as well.

  23. Lloyd says:

    Oh come on!

    Just get to the Damn dinner so we find out if Kinzo actually kept up with his word and turns up for dinner or not!

    I just want to know who the bloody murderer(s) are now so I can start speculating how they’ve been doing it this whole time!

    That aside… isn’t Ange accepting magic meaning that she’s now against battler? Or is Meta-Ange still emoing over not being able to get Battler back to her life?

  24. laala says:

    I have the feeling the most important hint in this episode is that for the furnitures to obey an order to kill, the intent to kill must be present in the witch. Now that we know Maria is planning to take revenge on her mother…

  25. cad says:

    @lloyd: i’m thinking battler isn’t trying to prove witches don’t exist (that would be a probatio diabolica) but that there was no magic involved in the rokk. disaster. so ange can still believe in magic and help him so long as she doesn’t believe magic was involved in the murder incident.

  26. Niw says:

    I reckon you haven’t read the intro message of EP4?

    Good Morning.
    What a surprise that you still haven’t been forced to surrender.
    By this point, I must expect a lot from you.

    Games do not take place only on the game board.
    This time, how about taking a little peek at the outside?
    The say that if you know your enemy, you need not fight a hundred battles.

    The difficulty depends on you.
    Your style of fighting up until now will influence the difficulty.

    Infer what you want from the bolded part.

  27. Westlo says:

    I like how everyone’s acting like Ange was really foreshadowed in the VN’s when she was mentioned in one liners twice before she showed up and numerous scenes acted like she didn’t exist period.

    Jessica saying it’s good all the cousins are together again.. um what about Ange.. you know your cousin who’s been going the last 6 years? Why isn’t Maria asking where Ange is? Ange seemed to look up to her and they are the closest in age yet she doesn’t react at all to no Ange?

    You can hardly blame DEEN for her piss poor introduction (in regards to foreshadowing) when the novel itself did a poor job. Majority of players wouldn’t have even remembered Ange period while reading the novels, it’s just another case of revisionist history.

    “This backstory of the past three episodes could easily have been squeezed in one episode, just like what the creators did with the first arcs.”

    HAHAHAHAHA this is like 5 hours worth of VN material. Don’t worry most VN players were rather “meh” to Ange and Maria’s back stories as well. Everyone pretty much wanted more Beatrice and Battler after episode 3 and than Kinzo finally starts to do something and we get hit with this long ass backstory.

  28. Niw says:

    >Don’t worry most VN players were rather “meh” to Ange and Maria’s back stories as well. Everyone pretty much wanted more Beatrice and Battler after episode 3 and than Kinzo finally starts to do something and we get hit with this long ass backstory.

    Of course, that perfectly and obviously explains why Ange got 2nd place in the official EP4 popularity contest. Yup.

  29. Rika says:

    @Niw

    Well, just because people found her long backstory boring doesn’t neccesarily mean that they don’t care/hate Ange.

  30. 4saken says:

    True, I didn’t hate this part but I was still quite impatient when reading it :P

  31. ebisu says:

    Maria’s mother has really something wrong with her head and Maria gets very twisted because of the traumatic situation. If Maria becomes mentally capable of killing like it seems, that means a lot of things.

    Well just a theory but I think that at least in the first arc she was together with the assassin. That would explain the accurate knowledge of magic of the assassin and the help she gives to make it look as a Beatrice’s killing scenario. The way everything goes makes quite sense this way in the first arc.
    She should have forged the pact or alliance when she receives the letter and umbrella when alone in the rain(the first of the misterious actions). Maybe I’m wrong but :).

  32. Westlo says:

    “Well, just because people found her long backstory boring doesn’t neccesarily mean that they don’t care/hate Ange. ”

    Pretty much.. I really like Ange but I couldn’t wait for it to get past her backstory and get back to the island. And it’s not like later events after the backstory might have given her more votes.. no of course not :p

  33. Narkins says:

    The backstory was dull as hell in the game as well, but its important for the story.

    Anyway another BEST MOTHER EVER award for Maria, its been a long way since she was introduced as a nice person in the first ep

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Vonter
@Anon2140150 - I do. Though Shounen do have the issue of being derivative in certain aspects like power scales and several doing the FMA Brotherhood climax (of what I've watched). Also they're made to be endless. It can be intimidating jumping to one that has several seasons.
Anonymous2140150
Does everyone here don't like shonen anime?
Amagi
Really, if there is one piece of information (aside from otome maybe) that makes me ignore a series forever it's a LN about a LN author or illustrator. The selfinert wish fulfillment couldn't be more obvious.
Amagi
Another LN greenlit for an anime production and the synopsis starts with "* is a light novel illustrator and..".
Amagi
@KTravlos: I don't know why modern anime hate curly- and/or wild hair so much. The old hair style gave Reinhard a more royal look, whereas he looks like a normal highschool boy now. Not that I am complaining about the anime as a whole. Also, I like some of the new designs.
KTravlos
and a part of me things it is indeed the hair. It comes to low, giving Reinhard a slovenly, lazy feel. When Yang feels more energetic you know there was a mistake.
KTravlos
and yes, this Reinhard fares poorly in comparison to the OVA one. He is dull. I need more Yang :p
KTravlos
ai vay vay. The Castrop Rebellion remains waste of time. And this time it was worse. The older depiction was tacky but at least it showed Kircheis ability in a logical manner. This time I had no idea what the hell happened. It felt cheap.

The rest of the episode was ok. Not completely sold on all the renditions of imp. admirals though I still love the uniforms.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*those
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hearing these , I find myself much more tolerant of anime voice acting even if the dub might only be okay.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its actually less of a sync issue, as I'm talking about 60s dubs , alot of people think the voices in old anime English dubs from the 90s are dated, but the old sixties kungfu and western dubs are shocking, far worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't mind sometimes satirical dubbing like on tiger lily , dialectics break bricks and kung pow however.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And those can be difficult to acquire sometimes in Italian or Chinese.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Live action films, this is especially annoying sometimes because I love Spaghetti westerns and Chinese martial arts films and old Italian cop thrillers.
Anonymous2137430
@Kaiser-Eoghan Are you referring to foreign animated films of foreign live action films because dubbing live action is a different beast as I'm sure you're aware. The idiosyncratic nature of watching moves and facial expressions not properly match voices really pulls the viewer out of the experience
SuperWooper
LoGH is airing a special next week because of scheduling delays, so that's one less thing to do.
AidanAK47
Well to those whom it might concern, expect my posts to be later than usual this week. Work is hell at the moment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have to say, this is probably a bit hypocritical, but while I enjoy dubs of anime I really really can't stand dubs of foreign films.
Lenlo
Simo Hayha would make a pretty crazy Archer.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine a fate strange fake adaptation will materialize eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But everyone seems to want that Finnish sniper as a Fate servant .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still no Mao, still mad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I have lost track of the historical characters in the fate lineup.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, to expand on that point the following historical figures are now female: Nero Claudius, Leonardo da Vinci, Frankenstein's Monster, Xuanzang, Jing Ke, Quetzalcoatl, Minamoto no Yoshitsune, Miyamoto Musashi, Okita Souji and many more to come.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I find it's an enjoyable watch though flawed. If you can get past some odd fanservice around the first ten episodes then I say it's worth watching.
Anonymous2133468
So i was thinking if i start watching, darling in the franxx, is worth it? or is just another 6/10 anime?
Lenlo
God damnit. Why Nasu. Just why.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, that ain't even Lewd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In all seriousness its ridiculous, the Japanese will make a cute/moe girl out of anything.
AidanAK47
....Should I also mention that Francis Drake is a big boobed pirate queen?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Posting lewd images on a respectable chatbox.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, But none of these characters are in the anime adaptions. Well besides Jack and Saber.
Lenlo
Aidan, all this conversation did was prove that my decision to only ever watch the Ufotable adaptions was the correct decision.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, you can blame Extella for the Attlia the Hun thing. I wasn't too fond of it myself. Also should mention Attila is female as well.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6414/528599445b739909c02993cfdbfc9f277d088cf2_hq.jpg
AidanAK47
Also Masky I will be the first to admit to the ridiculous aspects of the Fate Franchise but do take note that you are commenting on something you know literally nothing about. Which is the very definition of ignorance and is quite annoying. Fate/Zero nails the themes it's going for. So go watch Fate/Zero, come back and apologize.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Give it time. Genghis is getting in there eventually with Grand Order. We just had Anastasia and Salieri introduced after all. And it's not as if this story introduces Servants willy nilly, they need actual story purpose. Genghis Khan wouldn't have fit the Narrative that Fate/Zero was going for.
Lenlo
Wait Attila is an Alien and Edison is a Lion? God damnit Fate. Why are you doing this to me. I was already annoyed at your treatment of Musashi
Masky
(aliens existing in the show is good example of that missing on themes part xP)
Masky
*most successful conqueror
Masky
Honestly was just amused most conqueror of all time not being featured in the show :D But wait, whats this about aliens?
AidanAK47
Anyway the important thing to take into account is that in the Fate universe, King Arthur is a woman, Attila the Hun is an Alien, Thomas Edison is a lion and Jack the Ripper is a little girl in a dominatrix outfit. Any questions?
AidanAK47
And while you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes, it does leave you ignorant of how that show handles those ideas and themes.
AidanAK47
As for the Historical Alexander, he wasn't given the title of King of Couquerors. Fate/Zeros interpretation of him was. As generally accurate Fates interpretation of Servents history can be, they can make changes to suit the narrative.
AidanAK47
In that Regard Alexander was doing the conquest thing before Ghengus did. Ghengus likely has some other title. Hell he may only have the title because public consciousness was is more familiar with Alexander than Ghengus.
AidanAK47
Yeah, looking it up seems the King Title lost quite a lot of meaning in the Nasuverse. Though the King Title is rather flimsy. I mean Arthur is the King of Knights cause of the Knights of the round table. Gil is king of heroes because his tale was the first Heroic myth.
Lenlo
I think Alexander was just the first one they thought of, and they couldnt retroactively give it to someone else.

That said, Broskander deserves it <3
Masky
(And no, you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes of it.)
Masky
(just to note in case I need to note, I do tend to do at least cursory research when I make comments on stuff I don't watch)
Masky
That first part is semantics as Fate gives title "King" to historical figures who weren't kings already :D Also, you can make that argument about historical Alexander the Great? Since that seriously sounds like kind of weak reason.
AidanAK47
Also sees Rider as deserving of title of "King of Conquerors" because that which he strives to conquer most is not lands or material wealth, but the hearts of people, the toughest conquest that can be undertaken by anyone.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Ghengis Khan wasn't a king. He was a Khan.
Lenlo
Ghengis is always a Rider in my mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, Ghengis would be an appropriate beserker servant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Masky: I know, it feels so wrong I'm still mad I can't summon Karl Marx or Stalin.
Masky
So wait, Fate series is about historical figures with super powers, but "King of Conquerors" title isn't given to Ghengis Khan? :D Seriously? Thats just so wrong
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't feel any point in finishing it, it feels like something that I'd just randomly drop , not because its a bad show, but because I got my fill of it.
AidanAK47
I am actually going to drop blogging it.
AidanAK47
@Sash, indeed. I have been watching it but not blogging it for the last few episodes because it just hasn't givne me anything to say. I don't think it's a bad show but I have pointed out the flaws and strengths of it already so there is truly nothing more to say on it.
Sash
I think wotakoi is starting to feel repetitive..
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware Shana and Batman Ninja Harelequinn are both voiced by Rie kugimiya.
Lenlo
I did. It was... It was a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Did you end up watching Batman ninja by the way?
Lenlo
Music is great, yeah. When the music is on point, everything goes up. Everytime the sync the fight/punches to the music I just get hyped. Like the rotating shot with Aragaki or the first fight in episode 1.
Lenlo
Ill do my best to be clearer in the future on that front. Yeah, I dont mind twists like this. Makes the inevitable Mikio fight, narratively, even better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel the music does alot of the lifting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, so that was it.
Lenlo
Sorry if I never made that clear.
Lenlo
I would rather have fewer, amazing, fights than a lot of low-quality fights. This is a one cour show, the more meaning/impact they can give each fight the better.

Like Aragaki, narratively, was great. Loved it. Its just in animation/choreography that it falls flat.
Lenlo
Im disappointed with the animation of the fights. Narratively, I think they are quite good.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*disappointed with the fights in past episodes
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Pretty much what I said I thought of the episode. Although I was surprised how took the episodes ending, I expected you to see it as a slap in the face after being disappointed with the fights.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, I thought Megalo Box did something unique this episode. I wasn't expecting Joe to *not* fight. And the Mikio/Yukiko proxy war is an interesting character motivation. Im betting Yukiko will get Joe a full citizenship, effectively getting her on his side.
Lenlo
I wish I was physically capable of watching Megalo Box without thinking of Hajime no Ippo. I really do. But everytime I watch it, it makes me want to watch Ippo again to.
Anonymous2120908
I watched some more of the Chimera family chinese anime. (Wasn't aware it was monthly released). And geez, I like the concept, the background art is very pretty and contrasts with settings that have become tired in other anime. Yet sadly the animation and script are WEAK. I haven't grasped the quality of what's expected of these types of production but I want to believe, they're trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not much in the way of action in megalobox this week, but I did like the focus on Yukkiko getting a small character moment and then the big moment at episodes end .
AidanAK47
@Anon, That's some lazy ass trolling buddy. Should have stopped before the hashtags.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm even sort of looking forward to supposedly less respectable stuff like Goblin slayer and happy sugar life.
Vonter
Also E3 is almost here. And I can't wait. I think Nintendo will have a good show considering they're revealing the new Smash with a tournament. There's rumors of the new game by Retro Studios (Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong) and maybe they'll reveal something about how Pokemon will be on the Switch.
Vonter
Also there's always the chance of something new being discovered. Not everything needs expectations behind. Sometimes great things come out of nowhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So yes, there are some at least decent shows coming out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Muh Baki, Muh Bananna fish, muh made in abyss season 2, muh Vinland.
Anonymous2119906
The rest of this year looks like shit for anime and 2019 doesn't look great either #fuckmoe #makeanimegreatagain
Anonymous2119214
@Kaiser yeah it happened in half the amount of eps this time around for steins gate 0; which i expected considering there's a lot of ground to cover
Anonymous2119106
@Supermario Something like Fate or the LOTR films are a different case. I get where you're coming from about your preference, but I'm arguing that if a large story is going to be split into 3 films, it helps that the 3 films feel cleanly cut. Infinity war, even though we know there's a second part to the story, feels like it has that cohesive narrative structure with a beginning, middle, and end
Anonymous2119106
@Super Mario yea but the marvel movies are a different situation so i don't think the comparison is as appropriate. Marvel movies are "episodic" in nature rather than a continuous narrative. The films are largely isolated stories that are happening in a similar universe that only happen to "congeal" narratively because of a few overarching details shared between films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I remember when the original series suddenly shifted and got going and it was a really depressing episode.
Lenlo
Oh baby. The storm has finally come in Steins;Gate. Let the true suffering commence
SuperMario
@anon2118276: that's why I don't like LoTR trilogy. It's still a whole body chopped up in 3 parts, despite how clean the cut is. Whereas for me it works better if it was like a branch in a tree. The Marvel movies (despite my disinterest on those) are a good example of this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I did feel some of this weeks steins gate felt fillery, I do like see these characters interact and given the episodes conclusion, this episode acted as a calm before the storm.
Lenlo
Ill agree with you on King Kong. As for the Ralph Bakshi LotR, I have. I am still to this day impressed by the overlay of 2D art onto real/overexposed footage. It makes for shockingly fluid animation in places and has its own distinct style
Anonymous2118208
@Lenlo - Have you watched the old Ralph Bakshi adaptation of the first two books? It's uneven, but it's interesting comparing and contrasting certain decisions. As good as Peter Jackson is, I feel he makes very longwinded films, I like his version of King Kong a lot, but it is too long.
Anonymous2118276
@supermario i disagree; the point is that even though the LOTH films have cliffhanger endings, they still feel like fils. they have a defined first second and third act with well paced tension and release throughout them. They follow a storytelling macrostructure necessary for films to feel like cohesive narratives even if they are to end on a cliffhanger
Lenlo
I quite liked the individual LOTR movie just fyi
Vonter
Marvel surprisingly has kept their movies simple enough, that while you might miss details nowadays, you can tell what's happening.
Vonter
Another bad case is like with Assassin's Creed, which like Lost, just tried to tease a lot of things, then it grew tired of trying to piece them together and let the last games work more standalone, with little hints of a larger lore.
Vonter
Metroid does both, it has a standalone story and a hint to what a sequel might bring. Though that hint rarely matters by the time the new game is released.
Vonter
@SuperMario - Some videogames trilogies also do that. Gears of War and God of War had good standalone beginnings but by the second game they put cliffhanging endings. Kingdom Hearts does that and I expect 3 to also do it. Megaman Legends and Half Life had incomplete stories, which might be the worse case in regards to trying to make a continuous story.
SuperMario
It ruins the appetite
SuperMario
I actually think Lord of the Rings' trilogy is a bad example to follow. These films are meant to be viewed as a whole, so each film doesn't hold much as an individual story. I just can't digest films that have "to be continued" sign at the end. Imagine having a first course meal and then have to wait for few days for second course
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the current topic, I would be well for the production of a long running, ambitious ova series.
Anonymous2116425
then again, i don't take too much issue with these films feeling like movie-sized eps...the wait just sucks is all
Anonymous2116425
clearly the films need each other to tell the whole story, yet they can be taken for what they are in isolation as well
Anonymous2116425
I don't mind the trilogy trend at all; like Aidan said, when everything is said and done, all the films will be available to watch. I just think a stronger attempt should be made to make them feel like complete films. Something like the lord of the rings trilogy is a great example of how to do this
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am in full confidence that neither I nor Miura will survive to the end of berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course maybe they won't have a future , think about it that way, then they'd never see it, life has that weird way of being unpredictable like that =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
You can always rewatch them just before watching the one after.
AidanAK47
Of course not. But that's the thing. The wait is only a temporary problem. Anyone in the future will have all movies ready to view.
SuperMario
So it's best to wait for another 2 years to watch Heaven's Feel? Hell NOT
AidanAK47
When all the movies come out though you can basically barrel through it like a TV series.
SuperMario
Dangit, it's me Mario
Anonymous2115918
I still don't know if I like this trilogy trend. We've had a fair bun h of those in recent years (Berserk Golden Age, Madoka, even Kizumonogatari). I guess doing it that way, they'd make much more profits, and we have higher production values, but the wait is way too long and I don't think it works as movie-format
Kaiser-Eoghan
One of the very rare times where self-awareness works.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can be nice and say of course Ryan Reynolds+ violence, comic was funnier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But I'm sure if you think it over, the first deadpool was trapped in origin story mode, as an advantage, the sequel, is probably free of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Deadpool 2 had John Wicks director, which at the least means something in terms of action direction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: There was a whole run of deadpool issues called Cable and deadpool, which I suppose that pairing together gets the best out of the character.
AidanAK47
Seen Deadpool 2 tonight and I have difficultly deciding if it's better or worse than Deadpool 1. Still it's quite fun and I enjoyed it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I feel somewhat similar in regards to Franxx. When this series finishes I won't be singing high praises for it. Yet I do feel that it's worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Now I get ya. Yeah I understand that. I might even feel the same if I didn't already know the story from the VN.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The second film seems to be in cinema this year but we won't get it until it hits blu-ray.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: As I expected, I am disappointed that they have held back . And you might just be right about Castrollop/Caligula/Nero, when I originally attempted to watch the show years ago, that was the episode I stopped on.
KTravlos
Yang really is stealing the show this time. But I wanted the "Alcohol is mankind's oldest friend" rant. I need it.
KTravlos
my expectation is that they will take this to the Battle of Armistar, and then the films will cover the dual civil wars etc.
KTravlos
...CASTROP REBELLION! Why the hell sacrifice an episode to the most useless and bad part of the original! I hated that episode. Well let us see if they can give it a better twist this time around.
KTravlos
The Iserlohn arc at LGOGH:NT was ok. I liked how they presented the preparations. I like the new Murai face. The music was quite good. But they did tone the violence. I expected Walter to stab the imperial officer in the neck. They have toned down the violence a lot. And I missed Seeckts "Long live the Empire" death. That said it was not bad, and I think in general it was good adaption. But....
Anonymous2115268
for example, I think Darling in the franxx is pretty average, but that's not because i think it doesn't have cool shit in it or things that make it appealing; I just find that what the show tries to achieve is not that stupendous or worth lauding with praise. As a result, the flaws stick out that much more to me
Anonymous2115268
@Lenlo and that's pretty much how i felt. Everything is subject to criticism; hell i criticize my most favorite things in the world because i know they're not perfect. I evaluate art and media on whether what it achieves overshadows the flaws and to what degree. Which i think is the best way to approach criticism
Lenlo
I want to repeat though, Heavens Feel wasn't bad. I know some people take any criticism to mean I hated it, but I actually quite enjoyed it. I just think ill appreciate/enjoy it more once the other 2 movies are also out.
Lenlo
@Anon, you nailed it. I couldnt describe it, but what you said /feels/ right.

And Aidan, I loved Lindsay Ellis's videos on the whole Hobbit debacle. A shame, cause the original Lord of the Rings is a landmark in film for me.
Amagi
@Aidan: Do we know if the next HF movie will be finished this year?
Amagi
I love how and how often they say "Fujimi no Sugimoto" in Golden Kamuy. It's pretty hype for some reason, especially when it's said by his enemies.
Anonymous2114206
yea. heaven's feel is nothing like the situation with peter jackson's hobbit; this story needs this many movies and that large runtime. The thing with these heavens feel films that is probably bothering lenlo is that they feel like very long episodes and that particularly the first film felt like a giant prologue rather than a film with a beginning, middle, and end
AidanAK47
And just to make it clear, Heavens Feel needs at least three movies to cover the entire story. It's too big for one movie.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I ain't unhappy about it though. Sucks that I need to wait so long for each movie but there is higher production values as a result. Though in regards to the Hobbit I recommend watching Lindseys Eillis videos on it. As it not only talks about how it screwed the Hobbit but also how the movies screwed New Zealand.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I could never immerse myself in Tolkienistic world building.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Man, the hobbit, lord of the rings and that shit king kong film, he sold out so much , this was the man who gave me Heavenly creatures , Braindead and Feebles.
Lenlo
It is very beautiful indeed. And Aidan, that Hobbit metaphor made me weep for you. I hated what happened to the Hobbit
Anonymous2112805
other than that; HF is a very beautiful looking film; ufotable has improved with their digital compositions...holy crap
Anonymous2112805
heaven's feel seems to be embracing its more horrific elements. Aside from that, watching this film made me realize how much i prefer rin over the rest of the girls; kinda wish we got to spend a bit more time understanding Sakura's psyche in the film
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: This was part of some film fest thing, ended up missing big fish Begonia though, that Chinese animated thing =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: they'd invited him to introduce the flick.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Had this really unexpected run in, in my nearest arthouse cinema, seeing some film about the Soviet space program , I bump into this eastern European guy, assume he's an audience member, awkwardly say something in Russian to him, turns out he's the Russian federation ambassador to Ireland.
AidanAK47
It's sort of the hobbit situation where they chopped one book into three. Expect here we aren't getting extra fluff to pad things out. Well there are extra scenes but they are actually relevant.
Point is that in it's orignal form there are no stopping points here were you need to wait a year to continue. It was a straight story from start to finish.
AidanAK47
Well Fate is essentially the tutorial section that introduces most of the concepts and whatnot. But even then some of the things here are explained later in Heaven's Feel. Cause yeah, not only is the Fate/Stay Night VN not supposed to be split up into three seperate things, the routes aren't supposed to be split into movies either.
Lenlo
Im only familiar with the UBW route, cause Ufotable
Lenlo
I see.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, In a way there is. Heaven's Feel was originally meant to be experience after the Fate and UBW routes of the VN. That the thing Fate/Stay Night has struggled with. It's not meant to be split up into three like this. It's originally supposed to be three parts of a whole. Each route complementing another.
Nayrael
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