Posted by psgels on 27 November 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



So now we’re back at the island again, and this episode portrayed a new character as the villain: Kinzou. Like all villains of Umineko, this guy is way over the top, but then again, that’s part of the fun. You don’t exactly watch this series for its realism. We also see a new servant introduced: Gaap (not the most fortunate name: it means “yawn” in Dutch, which makes it a bit hard to take her seriously).

What’s also interesting is that in this arc, we never get to see the corpses for the first twillight confirmed. All we see is Beatrice smirking and claiming that it’s the same as the previous first twillights, but the massacre scene was just like any other magic scene in this show so far: an illusion. Who is to say that these people really died? This is especially notable because one of the biggest suspects right now (Dr. Hanzo) could have used this to his advantage and pretend to be dead, killing everyone from the sidelines.

Still, this also supports the theory that there are multiple killers. My prime theory at the moment is that Kinzo is responsible for the first twillight (see the third arc, in which the murders had to be committed by one of the six people who died there), and after that Hanzo took over with the rest of the murders.

And boy, that scene between Maria and Rosa was intense. This also explains why the scene between the two of them in the last episode felt a bit incomplete, and now you can really see where the twisted personality from Maria came from. However, Rosa does raise a few questions: if this supposedly happened in every single arc (of which I’m not convinced of at the moment), then it doesn’t really fit with her behavior during the second and third arc. Having been killed more than a 100 times, Rosa should now be terrified of of her. I didn’t exactly get that impression from them, aside from the first arc, perhaps.

Now that the first season has nearly ended, I do have to say that so far, I do consider Higurashi to be better than Umineko. We’ve now seen 22 episodes, and while the potential for mystery on both series is just as interesting, Higurashi had far better characters at this point. And while Studio Deen’s influence really contributed to the creepiness and atmosphere of the first season, I’m not feeling the same as with Umineko.

Overall, I’ve been getting a bit disappointed by Studio Deen for the past year. They used to be one of my favourite studios, but their shows seem to have dulled, and ever since Amatsuki, their good shows have either been good shows because they had awesome source material, or because they were sequels of already good shows (Jigoku Shoujo and Higurashi Rei). I’m missing that typical Studio Deen-esque feel that can make already good premises even better.
Rating: * (Good)

17 Responses

  1. Veldril says:

    If you look carefully, you could notice that the Maria and Rosa scene occur in Meta-World, possibly in Maria’s head/dream about how her think of Rosa’s opinions toward her.

  2. 4saken says:

    We also see a new servant introduced: Gaap (not the most fortunate name: it means “yawn” in Dutch, which makes it a bit hard to take her seriously).

    Actually, Gaap, like Ronove, is one of the 72 demons from “The Lesser Key of Solomon”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lesser_Key_of_Solomon

  3. Zaric says:

    The Rosa that Maria kills over and over is a magical duplicate/clone/copy for the purposes of training Maria in the dark ways of magic, as Beato promised to teach her in a previous episode.

    During the dialog they talk about the “real” mama not acknowlaging her (the witch Maria) and therefore the real Maria’s life will never be fixed.

    So yeah, none of that affected the real world, it was just to help explain Maria’s insane alter ego.

  4. marebito says:

    Considering this season of Umineko consists of the 1st 4 arcs in contrast to Higurashi where they only left out the 2 last arcs for the 2nd season… I’d say that Umineko already delivers quite some character development, even if most of them aren’t that complex until now but most likely there are still 3 episodes left after EP5 so we’ll see what awaits us there.

    I mean if they had only used the non-kai arcs for the 1st season of Higurashi there woudln’t have been that much character development either, the question arcs consist more of mystery than anything else.

    I needed quite some time to feel comfortable with Umineko, especially after being used to Higurashi, but after EP4 and after EP5 even more, I expect to like both series to at least an equal extent. Maybe for different reasons but I prefer the fact that they are not that similar anyway.

    I really hope that at least after EP4 you’ll be able to differentiate between all the different levels/layers of storytelling. I have to admit that this is one of the aspects that might be easier to handle when reading the novel. EP5 was really helpful for this whole meta-aspect but we’ll have to wait a long time until they begin animating the 2nd half of the episodes…

  5. Camario says:

    You’ve made a good point about the first twilight not being confirmed with the red, which means that for the time being we have no idea of who actually survived and who didn’t.

    As for Kinzo’s involvement, perhaps he really was behind this first set of murders directly or indirectly but I’m expecting to see him “die” in the process and that should allow his remains to match what we’ve previously seen in other arcs.

    In other words, it might even be that he’s already dead but that his closest servants and someone else are carrying out his “will” through all the sacrifices, which is what the magical sequences could be representing.

    That scene with Rosa and Maria was quite creepy, I suppose it makes sense as a sign of how much she’s come to hate her mother. In my opinion it’s part of Maria’s imagination and not much more so far.

    On the whole topic of Higurashi vs. Umineko, I’d say that the first series only became really good in terms of characterization when Higurashi Kai came around. Until then, the main advantage it had was the comparatively smaller number of characters that allowed for a more personal focus during each arc, but there wasn’t too much to them at first either.

    Umineko is apparently trying to be a lot more ambitious and does come off as struggling, trying too hard at times, but so far I’m willing to give it a chance to develop its characters further. The past couple of arcs and episodes have been pretty good for this, at least from my point of view. I’ll only be able to pass judgment after this entire story is over.

  6. blkmage says:

    It’s easy to see what happened. The difference between Higurashi and Umineko is that with Higurashi, they cut a lot more out, while Umineko is trying to stuff everything in. The result is that with Higurashi’s fewer characters, it became a lot easier to spend more time with each character and the important scenes are a lot more intense.

    With Umineko, most of the character development scenes got dropped because they didn’t contribute to the mystery and the pacing for important scenes is off and the impact lessened because they were just interested in showing what happened and getting it out of the way.

    So the only time you spend with characters is during the mystery and not when the cousins are hanging out at the beach or when the servants are cooking and cleaning together, for example. These are analogous to the club games from Higurashi.

    By this point in the game, none of the original 18’s characters (including the characters that got sidelined like Gohda) personalities, motives, or history should feel like a mystery. You should be able to follow their thought processes and figure out how they’d act in certain situations.

    The result is that Umineko’s anime adaptation became a Coles notes version of the original, while Higurashi was an adaptation where the mystery wasn’t quite as complex or important (in terms of the emphasis they gave it) so they had a lot more liberty in what they could keep or cut.

  7. Marion says:

    psgel, the doctor is named Nanjo not Hanzou XD

    As far as characters go, you have to understand Higurashi had a MUCH smaller cast compared to Umineko. And I’ll say right now – not all characters will have good development by the end of this first season. But you need to know that Higurashi’s adaptation is a bastardized version of the actual series – DEEN cut out chunks left and right of the game’s contents. Umineko’s adaptation meanwhile has stayed relatively faithful to the game (maybe a few scenes cut out here and there).

    Keep in mind that Umineko is a mystery while Higurashi was a horror. Generally in horror you are made to care for the characters a lot more BEFORE they die. In Umineko it’s the other way around.

  8. PL says:

    The thing about character development is that some of you make good points about comparing this to Higurashi (ie. less characters, six arcs in season 1 vs. four, more faithful adaptation). But there are two important points you should consider also. First, this is an anime, and while it is an adaptation of the game, it has to live or die on how it succeeds as an anime, and qualitatively should be judged from the viewpoint of someone who has never played the game. Just because those of you who have played it may know that the characters are going to get more development, that really doesn’t hold a lot of meaning in terms of measuring the success of the anime. Secondly, as an anime, it is being told in a medium that requires fans to watch around a year of programming, hanging by week-in and week-out (not counting the break between seasons), whereas to play the game must surely take much less time comparitively (again, not counting the breaks between releases), so it only makes sense that an anime-only viewer will need to develop a greater attachment to the characters in a quicker amount of time. Regardless of genre (horror vs. mystery), its a medium that requires stronger characterization. So, it may very well have been a mistake to adapt it so faithfully, and a less faithful adaptation that squeezed in more of the important character building stuff at the cost of losing some of the complexity of the mystery, could have improved it substantially. That being said, I still think its one of the best things on right now. But, strong character development is ranked just below good storytelling in importance to me, whereas, from what I’ve noticed from psgels’ other reviews, it seems to be more the other way around, so i think his criticism is pretty valid from that perspective.

  9. chounokoe says:

    @PL: The problem I see when comparing Umineko to Higurashi is, that the style of adaption is so fundamentaly different it is bound to fail on too many levels.
    Higurashi’s S1 adaption was about the flashy horror-atmosphere of the first 6 arcs…even though only the first 3 arcs were actually real horror-genre.
    Umineko’s S1 adaption tries hard to stay true to the source material, because it is forced to do so.
    The Higurashi anime adapted some things generally wrong, set wrong focuses and some characters developed in a totally wrong direction because of that. Even after the anime finished, many people still see Rena as the archetype of the deranged killer-loli, even though she always was the brains of the team.
    Still that didn’t hurt Higurashi’s story, because it’s kernel functioned unrelated to any characters apart from the antagonist itself…
    Umineko is a whole other story because of it works with perspectives, thoughts, etc. so much…some things wouldn’t make sense if they rewrote parts the wrong way. Concerning that Higurashi was a whole lot easier to handle on a basis of pleasing the audience…because they wouldn’t notice if things went wrong along the way as long as it didn’t obstruct the deus ex machina finale.

    Umineko let’s one assume already that it won’t be that easy, so they have to work a lot more carefully during the adaption process…and of course that cuts away on the time they could take for actually getting more slice-of-life development in.

    Of course Higurashi succeded as a stand alone project, but as an adaption it failed…at least for me.
    Umineko succeds much more as an adaption, but I admit it isn’t such a wild ride.

  10. Westlo says:

    This should have a much better finish than Higur s1 imo, 25-26 should be the best episodes in the series along with 18.

  11. battler says:

    Did you read the comments psegels? you really have to thank the users because they explained practically everything you really get wrong i mean come on is obvious the scene with maria killing rosa is all in maria’s mind XD.
    About confirming if they are dead or not don’t forget to see everything throught battler’s eyes when he see someone dead you have to be practically 100% they are.

    Also wait to make your final judgment about the first season of umineko because the last four chapters are going to be AWESOME (if deen makes a good job) and don’t forget umineko first season adapts 4 visual novels instead of six like the first season of higurashi.

  12. Westlo says:

    “Also wait to make your final judgment about the first season of umineko because the last four chapters are going to be AWESOME (if deen makes a good job)”

    Exactly, if it stays true to the VN and captures the emotion than I think Umineko’s ending episodes will be the sun to Higur’s candle.. Higur had an okay ending…that’s just it.. Umineko has a stunning ending, I think the last 2 hours of VN 4 is superior to the last 2 of VN 3.

  13. superluccix says:

    Its easy to see why Higurashi is better than Umineko. its because it is more realistic. In Higurashi, there wasn’t no magical creature or whatever, it was one person pulling all the strings, but you were given information piece by piece to get closer to the truth. Also viewers knew when Higurashi went into another world or whatever so viewers wouldnt get confused. In Umineko however, nothing is certain, no one knows what the hell, when the hell, where the hell, why the hell, how the hell did things happen and for what reason. I mean honestly Beatrice could kill them all but has to play this magical game when she doesn’t really need to. I mean having regular humans go up against witches is pretty ludicris itself but whatever. Umineko can just keep pulling out magical creatures left and right and we still won’t get anywhere. I havent played either games or read the manga, but it doesn’t matter. We are talking bout the anime. The bottom line is, the more balanced the playing field is, and the more realism it gets, the better it is. I still LOVE Umineko and will continue to watch, but if anyone thought that Higuraashi was better but didnt know why, well thats the reason.

  14. marebito says:

    IMO what anyone who feels kind of lost right now should do is trying to think about how what we and Battler are shown could have actually happened without any magic and regardless of how and when instead of disproving everything right away. That way we should be able to differentiate between actual happenings and illusions that only exist to confuse.

    Furthermore I think the anime and its visuals make pretty clear when things shift into the meta-level and IMO we should just accept it as a META-level. Not as some kind of magical world, just a depiction of the metaphysical aspect of the whole storyline. Of course there are supernatural elements to a certain extent (see Rika/Bernkastel in Higurashi) but I think the meta-characters only serve for the depiction of certain concepts and theories.

    Also it was already mentioned by Bernkastel that the only one who can defeat Beatrice is Ange. Ange is a person from 1998, the future. We also know by this point in the anime, that letters describing the incidents on Rokkenjima in 1986 were found in those bottles… but the whole case still remains as a huge mystery to the public and nobody knows for sure what actually happened. Now think about what that might indicate concerning the events we get to see in 1986 and the perspective from which we are actually observing.

  15. Sacchi says:

    I’ve been thinking about Kinzo. Kinzo might be dead. We’ve seen Kinzo many times though. But who is to say that the Kinzo we’ve seen IS truly Kinzo? Like, who says that the man we saw all this episode might be another man who is acting like Kinzo? Nanjo and Genji are the only ones that can truly recognize him. His children could too, but they haven’t seen Kinzo in a while, and besides, there’s always the possibility of some sort of mask. Just a thought I had when you mentioned that the first twillight wasn’t confirmed (by the way, nice catch, I hadn’t noticed!)

  16. Silvering says:

    GAAP means ‘generally accepted accounting principles’, and it happens she is a CPA in hell.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaap

  17. Magician Man says:

    O_O Can’t unsee. You think that as an accounting major I would have caught that.

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Anonymous870083
mm okay thanks!
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Think you might just have to go with a torrent. It's pretty hard to find direct download anime these days.
Anonymous870541
the latest episode of rakugo just made my heart sank. i didn't think it would get better than it already is. i thank god that i didn't read ahead
Anonymous870083
does anyone know where I can download the remastered version of the Utena series? without torrent?
SuperMario
the same very thought here Lenlo. What I considered the weakest part turned out to be so layered. Sorry for ever doubting you, Rakugo.
Lenlo
And that smirk at the end, beautiful
Lenlo
The weakest plot point of S1 has just become the best part ever.
Lenlo
OOH MAN. I was not ready. The entire first season was all a setup. I cant. What. HOW DOES IT GET BETTER
Lenlo
Cant wait to watch Rakugo tonight, just got home and im lookin forward to it,.
AidanAK47
I think before grabbing the protest signs it might be worth considering if the thing you are demanding be uncensored is even worth it. Oh yeah, now you can see genitalia in crap sex scenes that were crow bared into the plot. No more need to use your imagination.
AidanAK47
Some protest because they want there porn. That I suppose I can understand even if I think they would be better off buying some nukige. But then there are those who demand it just for the sake of standing against censorship. They don't give a crap about the game or the fact we are getting the exact same thing the japanese got. What? Censorship of sexual organs? DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!
AidanAK47
There are people actively proclaiming they won't buy the game, because they can't see dicks. That is not hyperbole. This is literally exactly whats happening here. And they just act so goddamn self righteous about it. Porn is not the goddamn point of these games. Shouldn't even be in them in the first place.
AidanAK47
So another Sekai Kickstarter is up for a trilogy of Visual novels called A Clockwork Ley-Line. Chipped in my bit as I am going to be buying this regardless but like goddamn clockwork you get the idiots yelling for Mosaic removal. No matter how I try to rationalize it, this just sounds stupid.
Kaiser Eoghan
Just whenever I think Rakugo may be dragging its feet it comes out a gives me three big strong moments in this weeks episode, you will know them when you come to them.
K-Off
Dubbing in more subdued performances work fine. It just becomes unbearable when it involves shouty dialogue, which idescribes most of the Japanese games I play.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I think at the time it allowed Bagel (where did he go?) to find some exploit/gap in the sites security too.
SuperMario
I mean the spoiler code in the comment section. ^^. Like I don't mind if readers give (potential) spoilers but I don't want to ruin the fun of other readers as well
AidanAK47
After all it wasn't a intended feature of the old shoutbox. We were pretty much hacking the thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
I seem to remember all those old html codes stopped working on the old shoutbox too at one point.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was also originally an ability to animate text too of the shoutbox and have gifs appear in the message box but not as links.
AidanAK47
I remember some HTML code worked with the old shoutbox but nope. But I suppose you could change the colour of text to white...though that would effect everything you write.
SuperMario
Btw, do we have spoiler tag here Aidan?
SuperMario
@anon861679: Agreed. They have big ambitions, but they seems unsure on what to do next. I mean engaging your readers to give their thoughts is good, but if it is a mean for you to get inspiration to write essay about isn't that great. Well, give them say 6 months until they can settle down (they just launched this site for 3,4 months only)
Kaiser Eoghan
Despite being fine with anime in English, I've almost always felt that voice acting in videogames isn't as good.
Anonymous861679
Hey mario, that anime feminist blog was well, kind of awful. While they're well intentioned, it felt like they were pushing tumblr stuff onto chan stuff and that always ends up in a smoking mess.
SuperMario
Okay I'm going to erase my memories right now
SuperMario
I swear I'll stay off reddit for good. Have been spoiled by the development of ACCA by one of their "theory". As soon as I realized it's freaking spoiler I stopped but what done is done. Ahhhhhhhhhh
K-Off
Christ Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty addicting, micro transactions are not necessary at all. Though it irks me that I can't get Japanese voices. Dubs just make me cringe every time.
SuperMario
@ckspike: Hand Shakers, the very quality that makes you brain cells die while watching it. Well, I actually think the music is one of the best part of the show, now that you mention it like that...well...*slap my forehead*
ckspike
... my roommate just told me the background music when I'm watching Hand Shakers sounds like a bad porno... Now I can't unhear it. Fuck!
Lenlo
I havnt kept up with Academia, for some reason it just didnt catch me as well as the movie first did.
AidanAK47
You know what's funny? I thought little Witch Academia would be the hardest one to blog. Yet halfway into the current season and it's the one I write the most about.
Lenlo
I actually dont read many blogs. Mostly just this place and the occasional pop on reddit
Anonymous859067
I'd like to present to one of my favorite blogs, A work I just created: Greed Island! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tc2r.greedisland
AidanAK47
I go to Reddit anime myself but I don't really like the upvote system. Basically the majority rule opinions get put to the top which more often than not are jokes.
HelghastKillzone
I listen to podcasts on youtube and others places as well as going on Reddit Anime to hear a thousand people yammering away.
Kaiser Eoghan
I irregularly follow the episode reviews on ANN and sometimes read standing on my neck. I fell out of the habit of following random curiousity.
SuperMario
Anime Feminist (animefeminist.com), while sounds ambitious on paper, hasn't been too hot unfortunately. I know they aim to be "big" so they're still figuring out how to do it best. Well, good luck for them!
SuperMario
Oh, I know I've mentioned this site before but you guys should read it (blog.sakugabooru.com), this site is one of the only few blogs that I actively subscribed to read their post. They have some insights to the anime industry that is very informative and inspiring
SuperMario
I also think that this chatbox here plays a great role to keep a fair amount of readers for the site, as many sometimes just come here to give their two cents on certain anime.
SuperMario
I just checked out rabujoi blof for the first time, (https://rabujoi.wordpress.com) and I think they're in pretty good shape. Content-wise are solid (as far as I read), and they update their post pretty regularly (comparing their amount of posts last month (80) to ours (28), ouch)
SuperMario
Just really wonder, what are other anime sites that you guys follow beside this? Well, ANN and RandomC are a given, but I found myself haven't bothered to read ANN's episodic reviews lately (mostly due to time constraint)
AidanAK47
Don't tell me this is gonna be a regular thing.
Lenlo
There we go
Lenlo
Oh god JSON objects. I thought that nightmare was over
SuperMario
Mine is working probably as well. Thanks a bunch K-Off and glad to hear back from you.
K-Off
No problem.
K-Off
I really need to figure out how to get those damn tooltips working again on the sidebar thumbnails. It'd be useful to have the descriptions popup.
AidanAK47
Cleared my cache and it looks to be fixed. Thanks as always K-Off. I would be completely screwed without you around.
K-Off
Alright I think that did it. Let me know if it pops up again. If you still see it, clear your browser cache and let me know if its still there.
AidanAK47
Messages still get sent. You just might have to reload the page. We are working on getting it fixed.
Vonter
AidanAK47 I can't get into Fate since like with Nanoha there's a lot of stuff with those names in it. Zero was the most straightforward, yet the buildup was very dragout but the payoffs where very worthy.
HelghastKillzone
testing message.
AidanAK47
This is what I get for updating the bloody plugin.....
AidanAK47
He finished it and was telling me what he thought of Saber defeating Gilgamesh. Minute he said that I was like "OH GOD..." He watched the Deen 2006 adaption. Sadly it loos like he's not going to bother watching UBW TV despite me showing him part of the berserker fight. With Fate/Extra, Fate/Grand Order, Fate/Apocrypha, Fate/Oath under the snow and all the rest this problem will happen again.
AidanAK47
You know I wish the Fate series did a better job naming it's series. I was introducing a newbie so I gave him Fate/Zero first. He loved it so I specifically told him to watch the UBW TV Series and don't mistake it for the movie. He then went and watched the movie. I told him to watch the TV series regardless and brought up the MAL page to show him which one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, there's definately no harm in doing further reading on more arthouse stuff before reviewing it/watching/after watching, it extends our understanding and is pretty much required.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Go for it, you might sell me on reading it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah, I generally only write reviews every now and then, and they tend to be kept simple and to 200-300 words. My writing ability only really works when I write in stream of consciousness.
Anonymous855550
Zestiria is such a feast for the eyes... The colors and backgrounds are so vivid and magnificent. Story has improved on the game's weaknesses too!
Lenlo
Given enough time, im sure I could write something, but as I writer I tend towards quick, decisive statements of what I think and why. Engineer, so technical documents are like the only thing I know how to write.
Topgavin
@Supermario ah, I'd say I'm the opposite in that I sometimes don't know why I like something so much, and when I read a review about it I can relate my own experiences and put it in my own words pretty well. Can thank Highschool eco for that
SuperMario
But to tell you guys the truth, I never think that I'm cut out as a reviewer (even now), because I'm a type of viewer who more perceive (I know why I like/ don't like stuffs) than express (just can't never explain stuffs well)
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it's depending on what grabbing you really; as I always find shows with heavy symbolisms like Penguindrum or Flip Flappers the easiest to dig deeper. But those are always my kind of show to begin with
Topgavin
I'd find it really hard to write something about a show without reading about it first; watching it one time by myself I usually only notice the big things. Stuff like Flip Flappers I had no clue what half the episode's hidden meanings were, can't imagine reviewing a show like NGE or penguindrum.
SuperMario
that's exactly how I write my reviews anyways
Lenlo
I cant imagine writing a review, id just repeat myself with different words but the same intended meaning over and over again
AidanAK47
Wonder if I should write a review of this. Might be hard without giving too much away.
AidanAK47
(Finishes Sweetest monster Visual novel)
.....well....fuck.
(Buys all authors visual novels on steam.)
Lenlo
Sadly, I doubt Nioh will get a PC port. Sony is pretty stingy on their exclusives, like Bloodborne. But I am so very happy with Nioh. I love technical combat like this
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose this means I'm looking into this rpg maker game thing now isn't it? Might aswell.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the word animerican used to describe things like avatar last airbender. Filthy word =P
Anonymous853606
God no. Jiro Taniguchi died.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I have been hearing very good things about Nioh. Really hoping it gets a PC port.
@Topgavin, No real surprises there.
Topgavin
I'm sure most of you have heard, but looks like New Game is getting a season 2 out of all things. Apparently they had good sales, and I can certainly see why. CGDCT with yuri undertones and clean animation is hard to get wrong, let alone not sell.
Lenlo
Just started with Nioh, and oh my goodness do I love it.
Anonymous852887
anyone play resident evil 7? its so good.
AidanAK47
Thought that's because the term American Anime just feels wrong to me on all levels.
AidanAK47
@Anon, they do not. They are cartoons.
Anonymous852775
DO people call D.C. Comics animated movies American anime?
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am certainly interested in seeing the next episode. Those minisodes were pretty good too. One thing I thought the writting faltered on though was the comedy. It really was a little too slapstick considering how serious the drama was.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: ah remind me the time I went to Texas (Corpus Christy) before X-mas time and I was wearing short pants and thongs (nice!!!), then went all the way up to Niagara Falls and I was almost freezing there.
Lenlo
See, I love winter, but its almost non-existent in Texas
Anonymous852268
@Aidan: I agree. I loved To the Moon. It's so good seeing emotional drama that isn't centered around high-school kids. Seeing the ups and downs of a whole long life of a person gives everything that happens way more impact.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: An Australian friend put it as "A sunbaked rock in summer, a giant zoo, that actively tries to kill its population"
SuperMario
Not that I'm enjoying the winter either. Why autumn always go so fast?
SuperMario
Believe me but summer here is way too much. When it's too hot and dry it starts bushfiring really badly. And it's too hot that even a big fan straight in front of you don't do you any good
Kaiser Eoghan
What is this mysterious creature known as summer you refer to? =P My country is grey as a black and white film =P
SuperMario
I'm wondering how freezing you guys have to endure right now, but the place I came today in Aussie just reached 50 degree celsius this noon. So hot I felt myself burning
Lenlo
I think the part I liked the most, was just how satisfying those mud splatter sounds were. I dont know why, but its in my head
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki 6 subs came out at 11pm PST.
Lenlo
Atleast Rakugo didnt get held up. Still amazing as ever
AidanAK47
Well I spent my time waiting for it to come out by playing and finishing To the Moon. Got to say, it takes some real skill to make a game in RPGmaker that can make you really feel something. But maybe I am just a sucker for this kind of story.
SuperMario
Hey, I would be very frustrating if Hand shakers got delayed. But I agree this delay is caused by Being X. And Scum's Wish, haizzz, this is the show we love to get pissed at. Haha
Anonymous850298
I blame Being X.
AidanAK47
Sigh, Youjo Senki 6 is delayed. Why is it always the best shows that get delayed? If an episode of hand Shakers was delayed no one would give a crap but nope. Gotta be the show you want to watch right away.
AidanAK47
@Anon, in both anime and manga I never liked that character much.
Anonymous849783
Meh, dropped Masamune-kun. Seriously why do they always have to shove in these one dimensional characters with a crush out of f* nowhere. It never made any of these shows more interesting, it's always the opposite.
Vonter
@Kaiser Eoghan - I find it weird having the teacher being so unashamedly evil. In a way I like that, but at the same time I can't relate to the notion of people like that existing IRL.
Kaiser Eoghan
As I continue to watch scums wish, it becomes an anger inducing as much as it is engrossing experience.
AidanAK47
Or the UBW movie over the TV series. You just don't do that.
AidanAK47
That's like recommending someone to watch NGE death and rebirth instead of the TV series.
Kaiser Eoghan
Meh, I just got fed up with the padding in the tv version.
AidanAK47
Jojo has the kind of entertainment that clicks with you or doesn't so I understand if you didn't get into it. Though to give it a fair chance I would recommend trying the first episodes of Battle Tendency. It starts at episode 10 of the first season, you can jump to it. If that doesn't catch you then Jojos really isn't for you.
AidanAK47
Don't listen to Kaiser. The OVA is bad.
Kaiser Eoghan
....found out where a friend had been off to lately, making a movie and he ended up actually making and finishing and I got first dibs. Had a hard time commenting on it as I know the guy personally.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Totally with you on the academy thing.
@Lenlo: If you ever try jojo again and get onto part three go for the ova instead as it trims down an overly bloated arc.
Lenlo
For JoJos, I couldnt get through the first season. It just didnt hook me
Lenlo
What I dont understand is how anything other than Mob Psycho won best animation, cause my god.
Lenlo
I think Erased lost not because of the libido, but because Yuri was "gay" and "progressive" and most important of all, recent. Yuri had just finished airing so it was stuck in everyones heads. Of course it was going to win everything
AidanAK47
Erased truly deserved to win that category and it only lost because people voted with their libido instead of their head.
AidanAK47
If there's one thing that really makes me angry about these awards it's Yuri on Ice winning most heartwarming moment for "The Kiss". Because A) It wasn't a fucking kiss and B) Even if it was that isn't heartwarming. Oh I am sure something is getting warm but it sure as hell isn't your heart.
AidanAK47
Likely the main reason Kira didn't win main villain because Jojo has grown to a episode count which makes people hesitant to pick it up. Not to mention many would lose interest by Stardust crusaders midpoint.
AidanAK47
When it comes to judging quality you have to leave it to the people who have experienced enough of the medium to truly be able to critical judge it. Pretty darn sure most who voted didn't even bother watching everything worthwhile each season and just gravitated towards whatever they were exposed to.
AidanAK47
Lets not forget someone voting multiple times and bot voting. Because yes, people really do that. As you two pointed out, a public vote was never truly going to be a accurate gauge of quality. For you are not only opening the vote to anime lovers but also newbies and those who simply haven't refined their tastes yet.
SuperMario
so they either abstained their votes (which actually was reasonable); voted for something popular or even voted based on what their kids liked the most (which was flat out unforgivable).
SuperMario
This from my own frustration mostly when it comes to awards like this. But I've been following the Academy Awards for way too long now and every now and then you heard something that really disheartened about their voting process. Like for example many of the Academy members admitted that they don't care to watch anything animated because... it's kiddy stuff
SuperMario
TL;DR: my point is I have mixed feeling about the whole Crunchyroll awards. One more thing that I noticed about the nomination is that the pool was dominated by shows from the first half of last year.
Lenlo
I dont think public voting is the way to go is the thing. Popularity contests are horrible. With popularity contests moe is going to be near the top every time, while shows like Rakugo never really have a chance. And I think there is little doubt that Rakugo was one of the best shows last season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: there is an issue with the first thou, because reviewers like us don't actually represent the whole public opinions. So it's all come down to the very reason they create an award in a 1st place (your second point). But with voting we can't really reason why the winners win the trophy, right?
Lenlo
The problem with awards like that is for them to mean anything they need 2 things. 1) A board of voters who are actual reviewers who have watched a large portion of what was on shelf that season. 2) Reasons for why each thing won its award. An award without reasons means nothing
SuperMario
Other issue about voting for these awards is that the nominating body and the voting body aren't always the same. Usually the voting body is broader and more generic in taste, so I'm not at all surprised when shows like Rakugo couldn't win. Too art-house for their liking. Well, at least it got nominated which for me is good enough.
SuperMario
That's the thing. When it comes to awards, they are more 'popularity' contest than actual quality, since people tend to vote for the safer choice (the one that are both popular and mildly critical success), YOI fits the bill here.
Lenlo
Those awards were not the best and little more then a popularity contest imo.
SuperMario
Actually with that line-up I had no problems with YOI taking the top spot
SuperMario
I actually forgot about the Crunchyroll Anime Awards so I came to check the winner. Guess which show won AOTY huh? Alright, at least it wasn't Kabaneri or Jokers Game
Kaiser Eoghan
But the best one was Mask of Phantasm.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: And return of the joker also.
Kaiser Eoghan
It has aged admittedly very poorly, but I always got a great kick out of that old 1994 spiderman cartoon.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I think its fair to use the term K-anime or C-anime for the Korean and Chinese influenced stuff, or maybe just anime would be just as appropriate. If some Argentinian guy can write/draw a manga for a Japanese manga magazine (big comic superior thats the magazines name) and have it actually be called a manga, it should be the same for China/Korea.
Lenlo
Mhmm. Marvel had the movies, but DC had the animated series
AidanAK47
Man, I loved the villains of Batman Beyond. Inque and Shriek had such interesting powers. The DC animated shows tended to be the one that didn't treat you like a kid while watching.
Lenlo
Well, they released a trailer for Samurai Jack S5, so its coming. Batman Beyond I also enjoyed
AidanAK47
Ah Samurai Jack. Wonder how that Adult swim revival is going? Batman the Animated Series as well didn't need Batman to crack off jokes every minute to be great.
Lenlo
Agreed. Samurai Jack was one of my favorite cartoons for that very reason. It ran the gamut of genres, each episode being something different.
Also I used Nichijou cause it was the first to come to my mind as a "Kids Show", though Love-Ru works as well
AidanAK47
One thing I think Cartoons could do to move away from the stigma of being for kids is having more genres than Comedy and Action adventure. Or at least stop putting comedy in everything.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Every fanbase has it's fanatics. There are idiots everywhere.
@Lenlo, I thought this might come up though I was expecting more of "placing Berserk and To Love-Ru in the same category" thing. Honestly I don't have a rebuttal for that. What is an isn't anime is really a matter of what anime is to you.
Lenlo
Now Aidan, you say putting Berserk and Scoopy doo in the same category is wrong, but what about Berserk and say.. Nichijou? A similar problem comes up and I think thats more to do with Berserk being a pretty major outlier (And I love it for being so. Have all the original Dark Horse volumes on my shelf)
Lenlo
Really though, reading Reddit arguments about it is so much fun.
Lenlo
I do think that recently, a number of shows have been trying to move cartoon, and animation in general in the west, away from meaning "For Kids".
Lenlo
Im not sure sure about that Anon, look at the Steven Universe and MLP fanbases.
Anonymous840067
Aidan, that isn't true... Anime has a 'special' name because it's fan base is a lot more fanatical than the cartoon fan base.
AidanAK47
Though I think the whole "Its not for kids" is the main push. Looking at my anime collection the majority is rated 15 with a few 12s. It's like the way you have Young Adult and mature, Comic books and graphic novels, or Visual novels and Eroge. They are essentially the same thing but appeal to different audiences.
AidanAK47
Though I think what really pushes this argument is that the term anime at least has a badge of honor. You don't see people demanding a show to be called a cartoon.
AidanAK47
Honestly the term anime is just a distinction to separate it from the more kiddy stuff. The term cartoon in the western world is too ingrained with the likes of Hanna Barbera or loony toons. No matter how you put it, putting Scooby Doo and Berserk in the same category is just wrong.
SuperMario
Then would you consider Korean, Chinese anime-influenced shows as anime? (I would) and those anime that aimed for Western audience (like Animatrix) as anime? (I would too)
SuperMario
But then we have something like Thunderbolt Fantasy lasy year which if I go for this defination (style) then it isn't anime at all, yet I would categorize it as anime
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