Posted by psgels on 10 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Very nice, the plot twists just keep heaping up with this episode. While not as interesting as the third arc yet, there’s plenty of potential left for this in the final two episodes.

The first half of this episode was the usual slaughter-fest in which members of the Ushinomiya-family die rather one-sidedly, though there are several interesting questions raised here: has non-meta-Battler ever directly seen magic up till now? The only point I can think of is the end of the second arc, and that could easily have been an illusion. My guess has always been that what he saw with his eyes happened in real life, and this puts the three phone-calls he made during the first half in a very interesting light.

Right now, my guess is that the murderer used some sort of psychological attack to kill these people. Perhaps some sort of drug or mushroom that made them think that there are things that there actually aren’t. We’ve never really seen Nanjo check for any drug effects, and I can imagine how the killer could have created the flesh wounds afterwards to confuse people and hide the real causes.

A different theory is that the three characters in question found out who the murderer was, and why they were committed. As this seems to have been a very good reason, and simply resigned to their fate.

Because that second half gave a very interesting twist to the whole matter. Beatrice could have acted this again (I see her crazy enough to just ignore Battler like this), but I think that this was one of the first time in which her actions were genuine. Otherwise it would not have made sense for Lambadelta to have shown up.

So the way I see it, Beatrice made a mistake. Something happened six years ago that for some reason really upset her, and she believed Battler to be the culprit… and yet he wasn’t. This wasn’t a case of simple amnesia, he really had no clue what happened. The thing that would make sense is how Rosa killed Beatrice, but this doesn’t make any sense because Beatrice would know this, and she’d be going after Rosa instead.

My guess is that the creators have yet to reveal the exact reason, but I do believe that six years ago multiple things happened that set everything in motion, Rosa’s sin being one of them: I can very well imagine that Kinzou wasn’t really happy when he found out what happened to Beatrice. Also, why couldn’t Battler claim that he’s the son of his mother? Was he switched as a baby with someone else or something? In that case, what happened to the real Battler? And how did this create Battler’s “sin”, six years ago.
Rating: * (Good)

30 Responses

  1. anonymous says:

    First thing that came to my mind was that maybe Battler is Beatrice’s son? Since it seemed so important who his mother was or was not, and Beat seemed to be really upset. She wanted to stop the game right there, like maybe it was an excuse in the first place?
    This is just a theory, so please do not confirm or deny it if you know.

  2. Ian says:

    But Beatrice couldn’t thank Rosa enough for killing her, so why would she kill Rosa back out of revenge for THAT? Besides, for all we know, Beatrice’s death at Rosa’s hands could just apply to the third game as a means of Beatrice explaining the number of people on the island.

  3. Son Gohan says:

    The accident with Rosa happened more than 6 years ago. She was still a young girl, remember? Now she has a 9-year-old daughter.

  4. Deus says:

    The “qualifications” that Beatrice mentions is that her game was set up for “Ushiromiya Battler”, i.e. a Battler of the Ushiromiya family. If this Battler in front of us is not Asumu’s son, then there’s really no guarantee he’s this “Battler” Beatrice wants to face.

    I.e. Perhaps the Battler who “sinned” is somebody else, somebody named Battler (and the one who’s mother is Asumu), but that’s not the Battler in front of Beatrice right now.

  5. Deus says:

    Oh yes, I can’t imagine why the anime left this out, but these statements are in RED:

    * Six years ago for me, no person called Beatrice existed.
    * The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
    * Ushiromiya Battler has a sin.
    * Because of your sin, people die.
    * Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die.

    When Beatrice said this to Battler, she was being entirely genuine.

  6. Camario says:

    I’m a bit disappointed about how quickly everyone died and the episode’s pacing felt rather strange overall, but the number of revelations and new developments makes up for it.

    There’s still two episodes left, which seems plenty of time on paper, so I wonder how they’ll resolve this cliffhanger, of sorts, other than just bringing Battler back after realizing the truth or something along those lines.

    I’m not sure about what kind of “sin” it is either, but everything seems to indicate Battler’s family is involved somehow and the nature of his birth was even directly called into question this time. Maybe he’s not Asumu’s son but rather Rudolf’s son with…Kyrie? Though why that would be a “sin” that Battler should apologize for escapes me. Nobody can realistically be held responsible for such things. There’s a lot more to this, I’m sure, but I don’t know what to make of it right now.

    Btw…after seeing him burst up in flames, it’s also pretty clear that Kinzo died before the arc started (or very early on, at least from the looks of it) and the whole thing about “Goldsmith” was apparently just a setup by Beatrice in order to spite Battler.

  7. Marion says:

    The entire thing with Beato talking is that she was very genuine about it. It’s not as if she’s trying to trick Battler: she honestly wants him to remember his sin and repent.

    Now the sin could have something to do with his mother (hence why Battler couldn’t repeat in red that he was born from his mother) but at the same time the Beato that Piece-Battler meets on the island says the sin has to do with Rokkenjima and not his immediate family. It might even have something to do with her, hence why she’s so upset.

    @Camario: Kyrie being Battler’s real mother is a very plausible fact. There is nothing saying Rudolf isn’t Battler’s father and I see no reason myself to believe otherwise. Unless Rudolf was three-timing Asumu and Kyrie then logically I say Kyrie is the mother.

    The question is how – Kyrie herself doesn’t seem to know about it at least. But I’m sure Rudolf probably has some insight on the issue. I somehow doubt that he wouldn’t be aware.

  8. Writer says:

    Perhaps it was Battler’s not going to the conferences that was his sin; I can’t remember is that’s it for sure, but I remember that Battler didn’t go to the conferences for a long time, or even live with his parents, due to Rudolf marrying Kyrie, or something like that.

    Perhaps that’s the sin that Beatrice talks about; in his absence, the Beatrice legend is stirred, and someone on the island, or perhaps stung by Battler’s going to his grandparents’ home, gets the idea to start the murders. Strange how Battler’s return to the conferences, in which he sees his cousins for the first time in many years, is when these games start happening, ne?

  9. Writer says:

    To add to my previous comment, I think I have an idea about how Beatrice is still coming around in the meta-world; Maria. Think about it; Beatrice and Maria have remarkably similar hair colors, along with Rosa’s to begin with, and seeing as Rosa has considered herself to be hard shipped with Maria since she was at a young age, perhaps Rosa got drunk one night and revealed what happened in a drunken confession while nobody was about, save Maria who was too young to realize what was being said.

    Now, I know that earlier in this arc, Maria herself became a witch (sort of), but remember something; a part of Eva’s personality became a witch as well, and both women remained as separate entities. Perhaps Beatrice diverged from Maria enough that they themselves could be separate and still coexist together.

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming. As for everything else, eh, my theory still in the development stages.

  10. Bane says:

    You know, this being one of those naku koro ni series, I bet we will have to wait until episode 26 of the sequel before the whole Battler/sin thing gets cleared up. I don’t think it was even revealed in the source material yet.

  11. Marion says:

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming.

    Maria was 3 when Battler stopped coming. The beginning of EP 1 when she was introduced it was said she didn’t even remember who he was and Battler had a vague memory of her too, so it was like meeting each other for the first time.

  12. Pafiume says:

    I don’t understand what Beatrice is talking about, saying that Battler isn’t Kinzo’s grandson. She only made it clear that he’s not Asumu’s son (which I’d been thinking for a while, although I don’t know why), but not that Rudolf is not his father. And Rudolf is the one who’s actually blood related, isn’t he? I mean, if he isn’t Rudolf’s son, fine, but using his mother, who is not a blood Ushiromiya, as an excuse to get out of the game is dumb. It’s just a way to get the revelation across.

    Personally, I want to know about Kinzo’s wife. I only remember hearing about her once, in passing. I feel like Battler’s sin has to do with either her, Asumu, or Ange. I suppose it’s more likely with Asumu or Ange though, since Ange is six in 1986, and Asumu probably died around that time.

  13. Writer says:

    @Pafiume;

    What Beatrice just used was a technicality; though Battler’s father isn’t being disproved, the fact that his biological mother isn’t Asumu means that he’s an illegitimate child of Rodulf, and technically not a real part of the family. Well, I’m not sure if it entirely works that way, but it means that Battler’s position in the family should really be much lower, and by Kinzo’s standards would probably not even be a grandchild of his at all. That’s probably what she’s using – a backdoor of sorts, in case she becomes bored and wants to have an easy way out.

  14. PL says:

    Somebody on here once asked a rather good question…”Why isn’t Ange allowed to come to the island in 1986?” She’s the only grandchild who is not there. If she is six years old in 1986, then Battler’s sin takes place around the time she was born and/or concieved…hmmm

  15. 4saken says:

    @Pafiume:
    In the game, Beatrice said that Battler is not the real Ushiromiya Battler, but an imposter (there’s a fact the anime didn’t make clear is noone, except Rudolf and Kyrie, recognized Battler because they haven’t met him for six years, they just knew that he’s Battler because Rudolf said so) That’s why she requested him to say in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu” and “you were born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. Battler could say the first but couldn’t say the latter.

  16. @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&* says:

    Well it was said in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. It just can’t be done when Ushiromiya Battler was replaced by “I”.

    So it should be assumed that “Battler” isn’t the same Ushiromiya Battler who was born from Asumu.

    Then I realized, the speaker here isn’t Battler. It’s Meta-Battler. The “real” Battler is still alive on the game board. And this “real” Battler was born from Asumu. While Meta-Battler exists outside of the game board and was “born” to compete with Beatrice at the end of EP1, he isn’t exactly born of Asumu.

  17. Marion says:

    @ @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&*

    It doesn’t work that way. Meta-Battler is still Battler, whether on the gameboard or in the metaworld.

  18. Mana says:

    We shouldn’t forget that by this point, we know that there’s a difference between the red truth and the blue truth. Presumably the red truth pertains to truths that accept the existance of witches, and the blue truth pertains to those that deny them.

    Since Beato specifically requested for Battler to say it in red, whether or not Battler was born from Asumu may very well be dependant on whether or not magic is real.

  19. Lloyd says:

    I am so mad that I will be without internet for the next three weeks, and won’t find out anything until New years. That last revelation made my jaw drop.

  20. Deus says:

    I’m personally with Writer in the whole issue. To me, the “sin” is Battler simply going away six years ago. He made a promise to “someone”, then simply went away and forgot about it.

    “Beatrice” is the personification of this someone. She’s not really a witch, and we may even already know this person.

    Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever”, or “I’ll always be there”. Battler never does. Six years pass, Battler sees this person again, and completely forgets. This person, driven mad (presumably because something (very bad* happens in Battler’s absence, and which Battler was never there to prevent), starts killing people.

    Since the things piece-Battler observes with his own senses are credible, there was definitely someone real in that balcony. It was dark, however, which may have impaired his vision.

    The two most likely suspects for this “someone”: Shanon and Jessica.

    They fit, agewise. Battler even mentions she had a crush on Shannon at some point. Piece-Beatrice looks remarkably like Jessica, she has almost the same clothes, her room is just under the balcony, and the first thing Battler sees when going to the mansions is piece-Beatrice (not conclusively seeing Jessica’s corpse). We’ve seen the “lying phonecall” trick before in Higurashi.

  21. Aetheus says:

    The simplest theory is that Battler is an impostor – sometime in the past, the real Battler was either killed/died/disappeared, and this Battler replaced him. It does not, however, rule out that Battler is not an Ushiromiya. After all, Battler himself has memories of “running away from home”. It might be that Battler is infact Kinzo’s son by an unknown mother, who was sent to be raised by Rudolf & Asumu in secrecy as the other siblings would view him as another threat to their inheritance. When Rudolf’s child, the “real Battler” passed on, the current Battler takes over his identity, and “runs away from home” for a few years in order to preserve the secret. Of course, there are plenty of holes in this theory – Battler himself would have memories of his “brother” (which he apparently doesn’t), and Kinzo still refers to Battler as his “grandson”, even in private. And of course, there is no known character who could be “fake Battler”‘s real mother (it can’t be Beatrice herself, because she says that she never met Battler 6 years ago)

  22. Anon says:

    You guys are overthinking this.

    Beatrice just wants Battler to give her the pony he promised.

    P.S. I see a lot of talk of “a second season,” but that’s never going to happen with these DVD sales.

  23. Anon says:

    I reckon Battler is Rudolfs son, but his mother is some unknown woman, not Asumu or Kyrie, however he was raised as Asumu’s son, and the rest of the family assumed he was her son.

  24. thestation says:

    @Anon;
    But that would mean Rudolf was dating Kyrie, Asumu, and an unknown woman at once, wouldn’t that be really overdoing it:P?

    And also, about Battler’s sin, it can’t be anything else than what Deus and Writer said.
    It already was said that Battler wasn’t there 6 years ago on Rokkenjima.
    And Beatrice said that it had to do with Rokkenjima, so the only conclusion is that he didn’t prevent something he should have. What the hell it was is still a blank, though..
    ’cause why the fuck :P would Beato be upset when it’s proven in red that it doesn’t have anything to do with her?

    ”Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever E or “I’ll always be there E”

    I can really see this happening , though I really don’t hope so. It sounds really cliché.

    Also, especially VN players;
    doesn’t anyone remind Umineko no Naku Koro ni of Phoenix Wright:P ?
    The Meta world seems like a courtroom, and when I saw some videos of the VN on YouTube,
    it reminded me so much of Phoenix Wright.
    Or am I the only one:P?

  25. Deus says:

    Pretty much. Battler even has his pose.

    There’s actually a good fanmade parody of it, but its not good to link to until the end of the 4th arc.

  26. Nyoron says:

    By any chance, does Battler not being born by Asumu have something to go with Kyrie being envious of Asumu for 18 years? Doesn’t that mean that Kyrie has something to do with it, considering Battler is 18 during Umineko.

  27. sheratan says:

    I think that the current Battler is not the Battler which visited the island six years before.

    My guess:

    *Asumu had a child called Battler

    * For some reason, Asumu’s real child got killed six years ago

    *Asumu replace the original Battler by another one she took at the orphan

    *This is the reason why the current “Battler” cannot remember what happened six years ago.

    And yes! My guess was greatly inspired by a Desperate Housewives’ episode; the season 4 finale

  28. ebisu says:

    Well Jessica and George killed clearly each other. They answered a kill the others in the end. And someone with a rifle killed a lot of the characters. The Blue Truth from Battler I don’t consider it’s been argued correctly by the moment so he still has a chance(Kinzo dies again by being burnt out so he might have been dead since the beginning, (Note that Battler don’t see nor talk directly to him, so I think this is a possibility)). And about the sin, if Battler can’t say he’s Asumu’s son, then he is the son of Kyrie or another character(maybe Bea from the previous arc). Or he just really thinks Kyrie’s his mother too strongly. Not enough info I think.

  29. vaniba12 says:

    Beatrice says that no one understands magic, so maybe his “sin” was that he denied magic six years ago just as he’s doing now?

  30. artemis19 says:

    well, its probably to late to through in my own thoughts. but near the end of episode 4 in the game, Bernkastel and Lambadelta appear before Battler and he states ‘I had a feeling I’d met her somewhere (too), but I couldn’t remember.’

    Isn’t that kind of strange? Maybe his sin has some connection to these two witches that he has never had a connection with until that moment? After all, they seem to be the real puppetmasters of this game.

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  • k-off
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 09:29 PM)
    @Kaiser Someone who actually still likes Nicholas Cage outside of his internet memes? To me he’s one of those actors who at this point, I can’t visualize playing a role outside of himself. Similar to how I can’t see any of Steve Carrell’s movies without seeing Michael Scott.
  • k-off
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 09:19 PM)
    @Bam Yup, asking for money online is flawed in almost every way from the donor’s point of view, a lot of my former art history degree friends have taken to Patreon in a last ditch effort to float their poor career choice.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 07:46 PM)
    With synecdoche it has the benefit of Hoffman’s performance and to get it you just have to “Feel it”.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 07:45 PM)
    Adaptation is one of those films with Nicholas Cage where you really wish he’d do more of, I wasn’t expecting that to go so off the rails near the end.
    Being John Malkovich, I dug the crazily creative premise.
    Anomalisa felt so human that the characters are puppets you can easily forget that.
  • Kaiser Eoghan
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 07:42 PM)
    @Bam: I really want to use Urotsukidouji as my reasoning for why more messed up stuff should be adapted, namely kara no shoujo but the industry will just never be that hardcore anymore.
  • Bam
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 10:44 AM)
    In a world where Urotsukidoji gets 3 series of OVAs there is nothing you want to make that is too risqué or edgy that nobody would want to pick up. I get a small startup trying to push their fist film out, but most big Kickstarters are ran by bigname talents that already have a string of hits on their resume. C’mon, just have some faith in your work, it’s just crazy to ask for money upfront.
  • Bam
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 10:37 AM)
    SuperMario: I assume you mean Charlie Kaufman’s new film, in which case he already did pretty much whatever he wanted. Have you seen Synecdoche, New York and Adaptation? Now I’m a big ran of the man, but this creative control card gets a bit overplayed. The Under the Dog producers claim the same thing, but looking at their trailer it doesn’t look like anything that Japanese studios don’t already greenlight.
  • SuperMario
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 09:01 AM)
    for me though, I only pay for projects that I’m certain to watch (and have to pay for it eventually), so I don’t see the point not to “helping” them out. It’s all the same for me.
  • SuperMario
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 08:58 AM)
    @Bam I think the core concept is 1) with Kickstarter, many projects that otherwise never could have made is get supported here and 2) creators have more artistic control over their project. Take Amonalisa for example, big studios was very hesitate to fund the film, because of the commercial failure of his first film, but he insisted to get crowdfund and we have one of the more creative animation output last year.
  • Bam
    (Saturday, Apr 30. 2016 08:53 AM)
    A lot of the tech stuff is things you will never use twice; like a smartphone microscope attachment. they’re usually pretty shifty with it too. Yeah I’m sure it takes the price of a house to make a video series about sexism in videogames- right? And it takes almost a million dollars to make a 4 level indie game with three guys- seems legit. Must be pretty nice to basically do business with zero chance of failure.

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