Posted by psgels on 10 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Very nice, the plot twists just keep heaping up with this episode. While not as interesting as the third arc yet, there’s plenty of potential left for this in the final two episodes.

The first half of this episode was the usual slaughter-fest in which members of the Ushinomiya-family die rather one-sidedly, though there are several interesting questions raised here: has non-meta-Battler ever directly seen magic up till now? The only point I can think of is the end of the second arc, and that could easily have been an illusion. My guess has always been that what he saw with his eyes happened in real life, and this puts the three phone-calls he made during the first half in a very interesting light.

Right now, my guess is that the murderer used some sort of psychological attack to kill these people. Perhaps some sort of drug or mushroom that made them think that there are things that there actually aren’t. We’ve never really seen Nanjo check for any drug effects, and I can imagine how the killer could have created the flesh wounds afterwards to confuse people and hide the real causes.

A different theory is that the three characters in question found out who the murderer was, and why they were committed. As this seems to have been a very good reason, and simply resigned to their fate.

Because that second half gave a very interesting twist to the whole matter. Beatrice could have acted this again (I see her crazy enough to just ignore Battler like this), but I think that this was one of the first time in which her actions were genuine. Otherwise it would not have made sense for Lambadelta to have shown up.

So the way I see it, Beatrice made a mistake. Something happened six years ago that for some reason really upset her, and she believed Battler to be the culprit… and yet he wasn’t. This wasn’t a case of simple amnesia, he really had no clue what happened. The thing that would make sense is how Rosa killed Beatrice, but this doesn’t make any sense because Beatrice would know this, and she’d be going after Rosa instead.

My guess is that the creators have yet to reveal the exact reason, but I do believe that six years ago multiple things happened that set everything in motion, Rosa’s sin being one of them: I can very well imagine that Kinzou wasn’t really happy when he found out what happened to Beatrice. Also, why couldn’t Battler claim that he’s the son of his mother? Was he switched as a baby with someone else or something? In that case, what happened to the real Battler? And how did this create Battler’s “sin”, six years ago.
Rating: * (Good)

30 Responses

  1. anonymous says:

    First thing that came to my mind was that maybe Battler is Beatrice’s son? Since it seemed so important who his mother was or was not, and Beat seemed to be really upset. She wanted to stop the game right there, like maybe it was an excuse in the first place?
    This is just a theory, so please do not confirm or deny it if you know.

  2. Ian says:

    But Beatrice couldn’t thank Rosa enough for killing her, so why would she kill Rosa back out of revenge for THAT? Besides, for all we know, Beatrice’s death at Rosa’s hands could just apply to the third game as a means of Beatrice explaining the number of people on the island.

  3. Son Gohan says:

    The accident with Rosa happened more than 6 years ago. She was still a young girl, remember? Now she has a 9-year-old daughter.

  4. Deus says:

    The “qualifications” that Beatrice mentions is that her game was set up for “Ushiromiya Battler”, i.e. a Battler of the Ushiromiya family. If this Battler in front of us is not Asumu’s son, then there’s really no guarantee he’s this “Battler” Beatrice wants to face.

    I.e. Perhaps the Battler who “sinned” is somebody else, somebody named Battler (and the one who’s mother is Asumu), but that’s not the Battler in front of Beatrice right now.

  5. Deus says:

    Oh yes, I can’t imagine why the anime left this out, but these statements are in RED:

    * Six years ago for me, no person called Beatrice existed.
    * The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
    * Ushiromiya Battler has a sin.
    * Because of your sin, people die.
    * Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die.

    When Beatrice said this to Battler, she was being entirely genuine.

  6. Camario says:

    I’m a bit disappointed about how quickly everyone died and the episode’s pacing felt rather strange overall, but the number of revelations and new developments makes up for it.

    There’s still two episodes left, which seems plenty of time on paper, so I wonder how they’ll resolve this cliffhanger, of sorts, other than just bringing Battler back after realizing the truth or something along those lines.

    I’m not sure about what kind of “sin” it is either, but everything seems to indicate Battler’s family is involved somehow and the nature of his birth was even directly called into question this time. Maybe he’s not Asumu’s son but rather Rudolf’s son with…Kyrie? Though why that would be a “sin” that Battler should apologize for escapes me. Nobody can realistically be held responsible for such things. There’s a lot more to this, I’m sure, but I don’t know what to make of it right now.

    Btw…after seeing him burst up in flames, it’s also pretty clear that Kinzo died before the arc started (or very early on, at least from the looks of it) and the whole thing about “Goldsmith” was apparently just a setup by Beatrice in order to spite Battler.

  7. Marion says:

    The entire thing with Beato talking is that she was very genuine about it. It’s not as if she’s trying to trick Battler: she honestly wants him to remember his sin and repent.

    Now the sin could have something to do with his mother (hence why Battler couldn’t repeat in red that he was born from his mother) but at the same time the Beato that Piece-Battler meets on the island says the sin has to do with Rokkenjima and not his immediate family. It might even have something to do with her, hence why she’s so upset.

    @Camario: Kyrie being Battler’s real mother is a very plausible fact. There is nothing saying Rudolf isn’t Battler’s father and I see no reason myself to believe otherwise. Unless Rudolf was three-timing Asumu and Kyrie then logically I say Kyrie is the mother.

    The question is how – Kyrie herself doesn’t seem to know about it at least. But I’m sure Rudolf probably has some insight on the issue. I somehow doubt that he wouldn’t be aware.

  8. Writer says:

    Perhaps it was Battler’s not going to the conferences that was his sin; I can’t remember is that’s it for sure, but I remember that Battler didn’t go to the conferences for a long time, or even live with his parents, due to Rudolf marrying Kyrie, or something like that.

    Perhaps that’s the sin that Beatrice talks about; in his absence, the Beatrice legend is stirred, and someone on the island, or perhaps stung by Battler’s going to his grandparents’ home, gets the idea to start the murders. Strange how Battler’s return to the conferences, in which he sees his cousins for the first time in many years, is when these games start happening, ne?

  9. Writer says:

    To add to my previous comment, I think I have an idea about how Beatrice is still coming around in the meta-world; Maria. Think about it; Beatrice and Maria have remarkably similar hair colors, along with Rosa’s to begin with, and seeing as Rosa has considered herself to be hard shipped with Maria since she was at a young age, perhaps Rosa got drunk one night and revealed what happened in a drunken confession while nobody was about, save Maria who was too young to realize what was being said.

    Now, I know that earlier in this arc, Maria herself became a witch (sort of), but remember something; a part of Eva’s personality became a witch as well, and both women remained as separate entities. Perhaps Beatrice diverged from Maria enough that they themselves could be separate and still coexist together.

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming. As for everything else, eh, my theory still in the development stages.

  10. Bane says:

    You know, this being one of those naku koro ni series, I bet we will have to wait until episode 26 of the sequel before the whole Battler/sin thing gets cleared up. I don’t think it was even revealed in the source material yet.

  11. Marion says:

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming.

    Maria was 3 when Battler stopped coming. The beginning of EP 1 when she was introduced it was said she didn’t even remember who he was and Battler had a vague memory of her too, so it was like meeting each other for the first time.

  12. Pafiume says:

    I don’t understand what Beatrice is talking about, saying that Battler isn’t Kinzo’s grandson. She only made it clear that he’s not Asumu’s son (which I’d been thinking for a while, although I don’t know why), but not that Rudolf is not his father. And Rudolf is the one who’s actually blood related, isn’t he? I mean, if he isn’t Rudolf’s son, fine, but using his mother, who is not a blood Ushiromiya, as an excuse to get out of the game is dumb. It’s just a way to get the revelation across.

    Personally, I want to know about Kinzo’s wife. I only remember hearing about her once, in passing. I feel like Battler’s sin has to do with either her, Asumu, or Ange. I suppose it’s more likely with Asumu or Ange though, since Ange is six in 1986, and Asumu probably died around that time.

  13. Writer says:

    @Pafiume;

    What Beatrice just used was a technicality; though Battler’s father isn’t being disproved, the fact that his biological mother isn’t Asumu means that he’s an illegitimate child of Rodulf, and technically not a real part of the family. Well, I’m not sure if it entirely works that way, but it means that Battler’s position in the family should really be much lower, and by Kinzo’s standards would probably not even be a grandchild of his at all. That’s probably what she’s using – a backdoor of sorts, in case she becomes bored and wants to have an easy way out.

  14. PL says:

    Somebody on here once asked a rather good question…”Why isn’t Ange allowed to come to the island in 1986?” She’s the only grandchild who is not there. If she is six years old in 1986, then Battler’s sin takes place around the time she was born and/or concieved…hmmm

  15. 4saken says:

    @Pafiume:
    In the game, Beatrice said that Battler is not the real Ushiromiya Battler, but an imposter (there’s a fact the anime didn’t make clear is noone, except Rudolf and Kyrie, recognized Battler because they haven’t met him for six years, they just knew that he’s Battler because Rudolf said so) That’s why she requested him to say in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu” and “you were born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. Battler could say the first but couldn’t say the latter.

  16. @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&* says:

    Well it was said in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. It just can’t be done when Ushiromiya Battler was replaced by “I”.

    So it should be assumed that “Battler” isn’t the same Ushiromiya Battler who was born from Asumu.

    Then I realized, the speaker here isn’t Battler. It’s Meta-Battler. The “real” Battler is still alive on the game board. And this “real” Battler was born from Asumu. While Meta-Battler exists outside of the game board and was “born” to compete with Beatrice at the end of EP1, he isn’t exactly born of Asumu.

  17. Marion says:

    @ @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&*

    It doesn’t work that way. Meta-Battler is still Battler, whether on the gameboard or in the metaworld.

  18. Mana says:

    We shouldn’t forget that by this point, we know that there’s a difference between the red truth and the blue truth. Presumably the red truth pertains to truths that accept the existance of witches, and the blue truth pertains to those that deny them.

    Since Beato specifically requested for Battler to say it in red, whether or not Battler was born from Asumu may very well be dependant on whether or not magic is real.

  19. Lloyd says:

    I am so mad that I will be without internet for the next three weeks, and won’t find out anything until New years. That last revelation made my jaw drop.

  20. Deus says:

    I’m personally with Writer in the whole issue. To me, the “sin” is Battler simply going away six years ago. He made a promise to “someone”, then simply went away and forgot about it.

    “Beatrice” is the personification of this someone. She’s not really a witch, and we may even already know this person.

    Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever”, or “I’ll always be there”. Battler never does. Six years pass, Battler sees this person again, and completely forgets. This person, driven mad (presumably because something (very bad* happens in Battler’s absence, and which Battler was never there to prevent), starts killing people.

    Since the things piece-Battler observes with his own senses are credible, there was definitely someone real in that balcony. It was dark, however, which may have impaired his vision.

    The two most likely suspects for this “someone”: Shanon and Jessica.

    They fit, agewise. Battler even mentions she had a crush on Shannon at some point. Piece-Beatrice looks remarkably like Jessica, she has almost the same clothes, her room is just under the balcony, and the first thing Battler sees when going to the mansions is piece-Beatrice (not conclusively seeing Jessica’s corpse). We’ve seen the “lying phonecall” trick before in Higurashi.

  21. Aetheus says:

    The simplest theory is that Battler is an impostor – sometime in the past, the real Battler was either killed/died/disappeared, and this Battler replaced him. It does not, however, rule out that Battler is not an Ushiromiya. After all, Battler himself has memories of “running away from home”. It might be that Battler is infact Kinzo’s son by an unknown mother, who was sent to be raised by Rudolf & Asumu in secrecy as the other siblings would view him as another threat to their inheritance. When Rudolf’s child, the “real Battler” passed on, the current Battler takes over his identity, and “runs away from home” for a few years in order to preserve the secret. Of course, there are plenty of holes in this theory – Battler himself would have memories of his “brother” (which he apparently doesn’t), and Kinzo still refers to Battler as his “grandson”, even in private. And of course, there is no known character who could be “fake Battler”‘s real mother (it can’t be Beatrice herself, because she says that she never met Battler 6 years ago)

  22. Anon says:

    You guys are overthinking this.

    Beatrice just wants Battler to give her the pony he promised.

    P.S. I see a lot of talk of “a second season,” but that’s never going to happen with these DVD sales.

  23. Anon says:

    I reckon Battler is Rudolfs son, but his mother is some unknown woman, not Asumu or Kyrie, however he was raised as Asumu’s son, and the rest of the family assumed he was her son.

  24. thestation says:

    @Anon;
    But that would mean Rudolf was dating Kyrie, Asumu, and an unknown woman at once, wouldn’t that be really overdoing it:P?

    And also, about Battler’s sin, it can’t be anything else than what Deus and Writer said.
    It already was said that Battler wasn’t there 6 years ago on Rokkenjima.
    And Beatrice said that it had to do with Rokkenjima, so the only conclusion is that he didn’t prevent something he should have. What the hell it was is still a blank, though..
    ’cause why the fuck :P would Beato be upset when it’s proven in red that it doesn’t have anything to do with her?

    ”Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever E or “I’ll always be there E”

    I can really see this happening , though I really don’t hope so. It sounds really cliché.

    Also, especially VN players;
    doesn’t anyone remind Umineko no Naku Koro ni of Phoenix Wright:P ?
    The Meta world seems like a courtroom, and when I saw some videos of the VN on YouTube,
    it reminded me so much of Phoenix Wright.
    Or am I the only one:P?

  25. Deus says:

    Pretty much. Battler even has his pose.

    There’s actually a good fanmade parody of it, but its not good to link to until the end of the 4th arc.

  26. Nyoron says:

    By any chance, does Battler not being born by Asumu have something to go with Kyrie being envious of Asumu for 18 years? Doesn’t that mean that Kyrie has something to do with it, considering Battler is 18 during Umineko.

  27. sheratan says:

    I think that the current Battler is not the Battler which visited the island six years before.

    My guess:

    *Asumu had a child called Battler

    * For some reason, Asumu’s real child got killed six years ago

    *Asumu replace the original Battler by another one she took at the orphan

    *This is the reason why the current “Battler” cannot remember what happened six years ago.

    And yes! My guess was greatly inspired by a Desperate Housewives’ episode; the season 4 finale

  28. ebisu says:

    Well Jessica and George killed clearly each other. They answered a kill the others in the end. And someone with a rifle killed a lot of the characters. The Blue Truth from Battler I don’t consider it’s been argued correctly by the moment so he still has a chance(Kinzo dies again by being burnt out so he might have been dead since the beginning, (Note that Battler don’t see nor talk directly to him, so I think this is a possibility)). And about the sin, if Battler can’t say he’s Asumu’s son, then he is the son of Kyrie or another character(maybe Bea from the previous arc). Or he just really thinks Kyrie’s his mother too strongly. Not enough info I think.

  29. vaniba12 says:

    Beatrice says that no one understands magic, so maybe his “sin” was that he denied magic six years ago just as he’s doing now?

  30. artemis19 says:

    well, its probably to late to through in my own thoughts. but near the end of episode 4 in the game, Bernkastel and Lambadelta appear before Battler and he states ‘I had a feeling I’d met her somewhere (too), but I couldn’t remember.’

    Isn’t that kind of strange? Maybe his sin has some connection to these two witches that he has never had a connection with until that moment? After all, they seem to be the real puppetmasters of this game.

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AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
Anonymous670441
Gente - Ristorante no Hitobito
Kaiser Eoghan
If anything its the hate I have for certain characters that makes it more effective.
Kaiser Eoghan
The obsessional level of attachment is just uncomfortable to me, I don't want to get THAT attached to a non-real character.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its literally just a case of "Okay lets look at this picture of this character, she looks interesting, no feelings or expression from me, apply this fetish, fap, get release, go home. "
Kaiser Eoghan
Or drooling/dribbling/heavy breathing/grinning over the characters. I abhor alot of the anime girls I find attractive or am indifferent, even when looking at ecchi/hentai drawings I'm straight and clinical with it.
Kaiser Eoghan
I mean to each their own. But I really hate the level of emotion/devotion to moe/finding the characters attractive. Such as celebrating their birthdays, going on about how cute/hot they are, how important it is that they're virgins. Or not being being self-aware of how irritating the characters are.
Lenlo
Anime hipster is pretty accurate. His general treatment of the current state of anime is annoying, as is his obsession with moe. Maybe its cause I cant stand moe most of the time, but it bugs me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: Essentially my brothers view on digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I don't usually feel the need to correct errors in your reviews as the errors are generally un-important, but I think you meant to say apprentices rather than appearences in the Rakugo review, just bringing that up as it felt like kind of a throw off.
AidanAK47
Which is kinda like saying Madoka wasn't a magical girl deconstruction because Sailor Moon and Nanoha had dark elements too.
AidanAK47
Went and read the reddit comments on it and seems I was right on the money.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, He's basically a anime hipster. For example, I saw a thumbnail of his which had Saitama on it and below it "Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?" and I thought "Okay, he's going to go on about how OPM isn't subversive and then list a bunch of arbitrary examples in an attempt to redefine what is actually subversive"
Lenlo
I have lots of issues with Digibro. Dude has some good points, but other very horrible ones. Some issues he feels strongly about and gets kinda biased on imo.
Anonymous669202
acca looks visually interesting, and I personally really dig this kind of show, but it seems that it's definitely not for everyone
AidanAK47
Time to live up to my word. Four posts incoming.
AidanAK47
Man, Little witch Academia was so good. I disagree with the whole Digibro thing about being able to recognise a great show in it's first episode but watching this makes me think that this really is going to be something special.
AidanAK47
Alright, gonna put in effort today and have 3 or 4 first impressions posts done. That should knock out near half the season.
Kaiser Eoghan
Had a flip through handshakers. Garish is the word I'd use to describe it visually, it takes you out of the show.
Topgavin
ASuperMario From the first minute I can already tell it's by the same people that made K. Those colour filters and the extremely jarring/obvious city CGI is unmistakable.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, literally makes my hands shaking. It's an abosolute mess. Highly recommended to check it out because it's so terrible it's great to watch
Vonter212
Yeah, and it's also a literal woman in refrigerator plot device, since that the thing that pushes the story forward.
Masky
I'd say that having to hide your sister's body in fridge would count as daaaaaaark and edgy, but when the body is wearing only underwear, and for some reason main character put metal things in fridge to keep body standing(I guess to not knock fridge open from inside?) I think it goes to "exploitation" you are talking about
Vonter212
@Masky - Did someone said doing dark things for drama? That's the bread and butter to get despair. Unless it's for the sake of perversion. Then it's just exploitation.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Masky: His other works dead tube and scumbag go further in the unhinged regard.
Masky
*relies on easy "let's do [x dark thing] for drama!" thing
Masky
Geez, Mayonaka no X Giten is fricking disturbing/disgusting ._. I'm pretty sure that writing relies on e, but I can't help but think mangaka is trying to make corpses sexy.
SuperMario
I found Onihei to be quite good, actually one of the most solid new episode I watched this new season. Guys, check them out
Vonter
I just hope it doesn't fall into the same misstep Kabaneri or Inuyasha or Bleach fall by making a villain so over the top that it crossed the line of not having a satisfying downfall.
Anonymous657941
@Vonter I think they just moved on. I lost interest rather quickly and I guess even the fans did that at some point, like with some other long-running series. There is much more new and more direct "fujo" stuff out there, many of them probably switched. Don't know what happens in the manga but maybe the story got worse or contained things some people didn't like.
Vonter
January will be loli dictator month (for me) :p. World Conquest Zvezda Plot, Youjo Senki: Saga of Tanya the Evil (new), Seraph of the End. For some reason I stumble into three curious series with little power hungry girls. If I can ask, why did Owari Seraph's hype died, I remember back it was mentioned more often. It still has the fujoshi fanart but still, I don't see people bringing it up.
SuperMario
@CATski: well, if you didn't like its first 3 episodes I dont think the rest gonna change your mind. Have you finished Erased then? How did you like it?
SuperMario
But I understand it's difficult to speak in front of camera, get some time to get used to it
SuperMario
@kaiser: I won't commend on poem as I'm terrible at it myself but younneed to work more on presentation Kaiser. Small little things like looking directly at the camera or say "thanks for listening" in the end can connect you to the audience better
Anonymous657071
Ok. I'll give the thing another chance. *clicks torrent* XD. CATski.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Topgavin: You might like centaur no nanami if you like demi-chan.
Kaiser Eoghan
Damn...repeated myself =<
Kaiser Eoghan
There are these things called slam sessions done in bars where people get up and read out stuff in front of a crowd and read stuff out. Actually watching rakugo made me think about practicing for that kind of thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: the video I did was of me reading out a short piece of writing I did, a poem. lol I uploaded it to the wrong youtube account too I just realized =P
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBZ2hBDBYs&t=11s
I"] was recording this from my mothers laptops inbuilt cam while reading off my desktop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I think it's a good idea for you to try out reviewing movies/stuffs in youtube channel. I'll be very interesting to listen to them
SuperMario
@Topgavin: Agree. Demi-chan was so charming. Definately one of my favorite so far this new season
Topgavin
Demi-chan's first episode was good. Like, really really good. That blonde-haired girl was hilarious, the teacher-student relationship between the MC and the girls is really interesting and the social/practical problems the demi's face make it look like my favorite show so far.
CATski
Ah... ok. Is it really that good or it's just one of those "artsy" animes that tend to get overrated by their ardent fans? I didnt find the rakugo bit interesting.... probably the weakest aspect of the show for me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Why did I read that chapter. Why did I do that to myself.
Kaiser Eoghan
Admittedly yes the premise is not for everyone, but if you stick with it, the flashback arc had some good character work in there.
CATski
Rakugo has a season 2? I watched ep 1 - 3 of season 1 then promptly deleted it. The loud "yankee" dude was annoying. And the anime was boring.
Kaiser Eoghan
Oh man, I've been thinking lately of trying to start some kind of youtube channel. I did a few trial run videos. Its much much harder than it looks, didn't realize how nervy being in front of a video camera was.
Kaiser Eoghan
*a declining art and rakygo halls are closing down
Kaiser Eoghan
As the show continues to mention how "its declining art", that got me thinking of the modern day, how while things like tv and cinemas probably hurt attendances for rakugo performances, the internet has replaced theaters .
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, now I've watched it. It'll be interesting to see Yotaro's relation to sukeroku's daughter develop. By all intents he should be an irritating character and not as interesting a yakumo based on his personality, but I can't help but like him, example of a goofball character done right.
Anonymous654016
ElDlive is looking good
Kaiser Eoghan
I haven't gotten around to rakugo's second seasons first episode yet =<
Kaiser Eoghan
Just looking at masamunes female protaganist I want to punch her.
Kaiser Eoghan
Vapid would be how I'd describe it, I didn't care about Masamune no revenge but at least there was some life to it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, suzuka I remember a friend telling me when I got halfway through the anime to literally run from it and not continue. I flicked through fuukas first two episodes and played count the cliches.
Kaiser Eoghan
While I definitely got something out of Yojo senki's manga, I found the first episode easier to get through than the manga, in terms of pace and exposition.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Fuuka chapter 135. Read and be amazed.
Masky
Ah sorry ._.; And wait, there is another twist later on? What
AidanAK47
@Masky, Even if it's a crap show don't go posting spoilers on the chatbox.
Oh and that's just the begining, a really dumbass twist happened recently in the manga.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I'm away a whole day again so I'll be a bit late on my impressions.
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