Posted by psgels on 10 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

Very nice, the plot twists just keep heaping up with this episode. While not as interesting as the third arc yet, there’s plenty of potential left for this in the final two episodes.

The first half of this episode was the usual slaughter-fest in which members of the Ushinomiya-family die rather one-sidedly, though there are several interesting questions raised here: has non-meta-Battler ever directly seen magic up till now? The only point I can think of is the end of the second arc, and that could easily have been an illusion. My guess has always been that what he saw with his eyes happened in real life, and this puts the three phone-calls he made during the first half in a very interesting light.

Right now, my guess is that the murderer used some sort of psychological attack to kill these people. Perhaps some sort of drug or mushroom that made them think that there are things that there actually aren’t. We’ve never really seen Nanjo check for any drug effects, and I can imagine how the killer could have created the flesh wounds afterwards to confuse people and hide the real causes.

A different theory is that the three characters in question found out who the murderer was, and why they were committed. As this seems to have been a very good reason, and simply resigned to their fate.

Because that second half gave a very interesting twist to the whole matter. Beatrice could have acted this again (I see her crazy enough to just ignore Battler like this), but I think that this was one of the first time in which her actions were genuine. Otherwise it would not have made sense for Lambadelta to have shown up.

So the way I see it, Beatrice made a mistake. Something happened six years ago that for some reason really upset her, and she believed Battler to be the culprit… and yet he wasn’t. This wasn’t a case of simple amnesia, he really had no clue what happened. The thing that would make sense is how Rosa killed Beatrice, but this doesn’t make any sense because Beatrice would know this, and she’d be going after Rosa instead.

My guess is that the creators have yet to reveal the exact reason, but I do believe that six years ago multiple things happened that set everything in motion, Rosa’s sin being one of them: I can very well imagine that Kinzou wasn’t really happy when he found out what happened to Beatrice. Also, why couldn’t Battler claim that he’s the son of his mother? Was he switched as a baby with someone else or something? In that case, what happened to the real Battler? And how did this create Battler’s “sin”, six years ago.
Rating: * (Good)

30 Responses

  1. anonymous says:

    First thing that came to my mind was that maybe Battler is Beatrice’s son? Since it seemed so important who his mother was or was not, and Beat seemed to be really upset. She wanted to stop the game right there, like maybe it was an excuse in the first place?
    This is just a theory, so please do not confirm or deny it if you know.

  2. Ian says:

    But Beatrice couldn’t thank Rosa enough for killing her, so why would she kill Rosa back out of revenge for THAT? Besides, for all we know, Beatrice’s death at Rosa’s hands could just apply to the third game as a means of Beatrice explaining the number of people on the island.

  3. Son Gohan says:

    The accident with Rosa happened more than 6 years ago. She was still a young girl, remember? Now she has a 9-year-old daughter.

  4. Deus says:

    The “qualifications” that Beatrice mentions is that her game was set up for “Ushiromiya Battler”, i.e. a Battler of the Ushiromiya family. If this Battler in front of us is not Asumu’s son, then there’s really no guarantee he’s this “Battler” Beatrice wants to face.

    I.e. Perhaps the Battler who “sinned” is somebody else, somebody named Battler (and the one who’s mother is Asumu), but that’s not the Battler in front of Beatrice right now.

  5. Deus says:

    Oh yes, I can’t imagine why the anime left this out, but these statements are in RED:

    * Six years ago for me, no person called Beatrice existed.
    * The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
    * Ushiromiya Battler has a sin.
    * Because of your sin, people die.
    * Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die.

    When Beatrice said this to Battler, she was being entirely genuine.

  6. Camario says:

    I’m a bit disappointed about how quickly everyone died and the episode’s pacing felt rather strange overall, but the number of revelations and new developments makes up for it.

    There’s still two episodes left, which seems plenty of time on paper, so I wonder how they’ll resolve this cliffhanger, of sorts, other than just bringing Battler back after realizing the truth or something along those lines.

    I’m not sure about what kind of “sin” it is either, but everything seems to indicate Battler’s family is involved somehow and the nature of his birth was even directly called into question this time. Maybe he’s not Asumu’s son but rather Rudolf’s son with…Kyrie? Though why that would be a “sin” that Battler should apologize for escapes me. Nobody can realistically be held responsible for such things. There’s a lot more to this, I’m sure, but I don’t know what to make of it right now.

    Btw…after seeing him burst up in flames, it’s also pretty clear that Kinzo died before the arc started (or very early on, at least from the looks of it) and the whole thing about “Goldsmith” was apparently just a setup by Beatrice in order to spite Battler.

  7. Marion says:

    The entire thing with Beato talking is that she was very genuine about it. It’s not as if she’s trying to trick Battler: she honestly wants him to remember his sin and repent.

    Now the sin could have something to do with his mother (hence why Battler couldn’t repeat in red that he was born from his mother) but at the same time the Beato that Piece-Battler meets on the island says the sin has to do with Rokkenjima and not his immediate family. It might even have something to do with her, hence why she’s so upset.

    @Camario: Kyrie being Battler’s real mother is a very plausible fact. There is nothing saying Rudolf isn’t Battler’s father and I see no reason myself to believe otherwise. Unless Rudolf was three-timing Asumu and Kyrie then logically I say Kyrie is the mother.

    The question is how – Kyrie herself doesn’t seem to know about it at least. But I’m sure Rudolf probably has some insight on the issue. I somehow doubt that he wouldn’t be aware.

  8. Writer says:

    Perhaps it was Battler’s not going to the conferences that was his sin; I can’t remember is that’s it for sure, but I remember that Battler didn’t go to the conferences for a long time, or even live with his parents, due to Rudolf marrying Kyrie, or something like that.

    Perhaps that’s the sin that Beatrice talks about; in his absence, the Beatrice legend is stirred, and someone on the island, or perhaps stung by Battler’s going to his grandparents’ home, gets the idea to start the murders. Strange how Battler’s return to the conferences, in which he sees his cousins for the first time in many years, is when these games start happening, ne?

  9. Writer says:

    To add to my previous comment, I think I have an idea about how Beatrice is still coming around in the meta-world; Maria. Think about it; Beatrice and Maria have remarkably similar hair colors, along with Rosa’s to begin with, and seeing as Rosa has considered herself to be hard shipped with Maria since she was at a young age, perhaps Rosa got drunk one night and revealed what happened in a drunken confession while nobody was about, save Maria who was too young to realize what was being said.

    Now, I know that earlier in this arc, Maria herself became a witch (sort of), but remember something; a part of Eva’s personality became a witch as well, and both women remained as separate entities. Perhaps Beatrice diverged from Maria enough that they themselves could be separate and still coexist together.

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming. As for everything else, eh, my theory still in the development stages.

  10. Bane says:

    You know, this being one of those naku koro ni series, I bet we will have to wait until episode 26 of the sequel before the whole Battler/sin thing gets cleared up. I don’t think it was even revealed in the source material yet.

  11. Marion says:

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming.

    Maria was 3 when Battler stopped coming. The beginning of EP 1 when she was introduced it was said she didn’t even remember who he was and Battler had a vague memory of her too, so it was like meeting each other for the first time.

  12. Pafiume says:

    I don’t understand what Beatrice is talking about, saying that Battler isn’t Kinzo’s grandson. She only made it clear that he’s not Asumu’s son (which I’d been thinking for a while, although I don’t know why), but not that Rudolf is not his father. And Rudolf is the one who’s actually blood related, isn’t he? I mean, if he isn’t Rudolf’s son, fine, but using his mother, who is not a blood Ushiromiya, as an excuse to get out of the game is dumb. It’s just a way to get the revelation across.

    Personally, I want to know about Kinzo’s wife. I only remember hearing about her once, in passing. I feel like Battler’s sin has to do with either her, Asumu, or Ange. I suppose it’s more likely with Asumu or Ange though, since Ange is six in 1986, and Asumu probably died around that time.

  13. Writer says:


    What Beatrice just used was a technicality; though Battler’s father isn’t being disproved, the fact that his biological mother isn’t Asumu means that he’s an illegitimate child of Rodulf, and technically not a real part of the family. Well, I’m not sure if it entirely works that way, but it means that Battler’s position in the family should really be much lower, and by Kinzo’s standards would probably not even be a grandchild of his at all. That’s probably what she’s using – a backdoor of sorts, in case she becomes bored and wants to have an easy way out.

  14. PL says:

    Somebody on here once asked a rather good question…”Why isn’t Ange allowed to come to the island in 1986?” She’s the only grandchild who is not there. If she is six years old in 1986, then Battler’s sin takes place around the time she was born and/or concieved…hmmm

  15. 4saken says:

    In the game, Beatrice said that Battler is not the real Ushiromiya Battler, but an imposter (there’s a fact the anime didn’t make clear is noone, except Rudolf and Kyrie, recognized Battler because they haven’t met him for six years, they just knew that he’s Battler because Rudolf said so) That’s why she requested him to say in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu” and “you were born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. Battler could say the first but couldn’t say the latter.

  16. @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&* says:

    Well it was said in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. It just can’t be done when Ushiromiya Battler was replaced by “I”.

    So it should be assumed that “Battler” isn’t the same Ushiromiya Battler who was born from Asumu.

    Then I realized, the speaker here isn’t Battler. It’s Meta-Battler. The “real” Battler is still alive on the game board. And this “real” Battler was born from Asumu. While Meta-Battler exists outside of the game board and was “born” to compete with Beatrice at the end of EP1, he isn’t exactly born of Asumu.

  17. Marion says:

    @ @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&*

    It doesn’t work that way. Meta-Battler is still Battler, whether on the gameboard or in the metaworld.

  18. Mana says:

    We shouldn’t forget that by this point, we know that there’s a difference between the red truth and the blue truth. Presumably the red truth pertains to truths that accept the existance of witches, and the blue truth pertains to those that deny them.

    Since Beato specifically requested for Battler to say it in red, whether or not Battler was born from Asumu may very well be dependant on whether or not magic is real.

  19. Lloyd says:

    I am so mad that I will be without internet for the next three weeks, and won’t find out anything until New years. That last revelation made my jaw drop.

  20. Deus says:

    I’m personally with Writer in the whole issue. To me, the “sin” is Battler simply going away six years ago. He made a promise to “someone”, then simply went away and forgot about it.

    “Beatrice” is the personification of this someone. She’s not really a witch, and we may even already know this person.

    Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever”, or “I’ll always be there”. Battler never does. Six years pass, Battler sees this person again, and completely forgets. This person, driven mad (presumably because something (very bad* happens in Battler’s absence, and which Battler was never there to prevent), starts killing people.

    Since the things piece-Battler observes with his own senses are credible, there was definitely someone real in that balcony. It was dark, however, which may have impaired his vision.

    The two most likely suspects for this “someone”: Shanon and Jessica.

    They fit, agewise. Battler even mentions she had a crush on Shannon at some point. Piece-Beatrice looks remarkably like Jessica, she has almost the same clothes, her room is just under the balcony, and the first thing Battler sees when going to the mansions is piece-Beatrice (not conclusively seeing Jessica’s corpse). We’ve seen the “lying phonecall” trick before in Higurashi.

  21. Aetheus says:

    The simplest theory is that Battler is an impostor – sometime in the past, the real Battler was either killed/died/disappeared, and this Battler replaced him. It does not, however, rule out that Battler is not an Ushiromiya. After all, Battler himself has memories of “running away from home”. It might be that Battler is infact Kinzo’s son by an unknown mother, who was sent to be raised by Rudolf & Asumu in secrecy as the other siblings would view him as another threat to their inheritance. When Rudolf’s child, the “real Battler” passed on, the current Battler takes over his identity, and “runs away from home” for a few years in order to preserve the secret. Of course, there are plenty of holes in this theory – Battler himself would have memories of his “brother” (which he apparently doesn’t), and Kinzo still refers to Battler as his “grandson”, even in private. And of course, there is no known character who could be “fake Battler”‘s real mother (it can’t be Beatrice herself, because she says that she never met Battler 6 years ago)

  22. Anon says:

    You guys are overthinking this.

    Beatrice just wants Battler to give her the pony he promised.

    P.S. I see a lot of talk of “a second season,” but that’s never going to happen with these DVD sales.

  23. Anon says:

    I reckon Battler is Rudolfs son, but his mother is some unknown woman, not Asumu or Kyrie, however he was raised as Asumu’s son, and the rest of the family assumed he was her son.

  24. thestation says:

    But that would mean Rudolf was dating Kyrie, Asumu, and an unknown woman at once, wouldn’t that be really overdoing it:P?

    And also, about Battler’s sin, it can’t be anything else than what Deus and Writer said.
    It already was said that Battler wasn’t there 6 years ago on Rokkenjima.
    And Beatrice said that it had to do with Rokkenjima, so the only conclusion is that he didn’t prevent something he should have. What the hell it was is still a blank, though..
    ’cause why the fuck :P would Beato be upset when it’s proven in red that it doesn’t have anything to do with her?

    ”Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever E or “I’ll always be there E”

    I can really see this happening , though I really don’t hope so. It sounds really cliché.

    Also, especially VN players;
    doesn’t anyone remind Umineko no Naku Koro ni of Phoenix Wright:P ?
    The Meta world seems like a courtroom, and when I saw some videos of the VN on YouTube,
    it reminded me so much of Phoenix Wright.
    Or am I the only one:P?

  25. Deus says:

    Pretty much. Battler even has his pose.

    There’s actually a good fanmade parody of it, but its not good to link to until the end of the 4th arc.

  26. Nyoron says:

    By any chance, does Battler not being born by Asumu have something to go with Kyrie being envious of Asumu for 18 years? Doesn’t that mean that Kyrie has something to do with it, considering Battler is 18 during Umineko.

  27. sheratan says:

    I think that the current Battler is not the Battler which visited the island six years before.

    My guess:

    *Asumu had a child called Battler

    * For some reason, Asumu’s real child got killed six years ago

    *Asumu replace the original Battler by another one she took at the orphan

    *This is the reason why the current “Battler” cannot remember what happened six years ago.

    And yes! My guess was greatly inspired by a Desperate Housewives’ episode; the season 4 finale

  28. ebisu says:

    Well Jessica and George killed clearly each other. They answered a kill the others in the end. And someone with a rifle killed a lot of the characters. The Blue Truth from Battler I don’t consider it’s been argued correctly by the moment so he still has a chance(Kinzo dies again by being burnt out so he might have been dead since the beginning, (Note that Battler don’t see nor talk directly to him, so I think this is a possibility)). And about the sin, if Battler can’t say he’s Asumu’s son, then he is the son of Kyrie or another character(maybe Bea from the previous arc). Or he just really thinks Kyrie’s his mother too strongly. Not enough info I think.

  29. vaniba12 says:

    Beatrice says that no one understands magic, so maybe his “sin” was that he denied magic six years ago just as he’s doing now?

  30. artemis19 says:

    well, its probably to late to through in my own thoughts. but near the end of episode 4 in the game, Bernkastel and Lambadelta appear before Battler and he states ‘I had a feeling I’d met her somewhere (too), but I couldn’t remember.’

    Isn’t that kind of strange? Maybe his sin has some connection to these two witches that he has never had a connection with until that moment? After all, they seem to be the real puppetmasters of this game.

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Ep. 4 of Tiger Mask was a lot better than the last 3, quite a hyped fight that was a full 6mins long. Will continue watching in hope of an awesomely long final fight.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
Going back to the fanservice topic, its very easy to complain about it in anything but then something actually comes along that actually does it for you. I mean I always say that I don't watch a show/movie for its fanservice elements and stick with pictures on image boards, but then I ended up seeing a film where I actually got something out of the fanservice while watching the film its.
Kaiser Eoghan
The oujia prequel was competent genre fare, the director cared about the characters and every now and the built up a decent mood. Although jump Scares are there . And I always appreciate a horror film having a mean spirited ending. One of the rare cases where the young actors do well in a horror film. The pace is a bit uneven, rushed and a bit laggy .
Kaiser Eoghan
In the sense of how messed up/especially bleak those two episodes were.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was the sense too with both those episodes of "Jesus...I wasn't ready for that...."
Kaiser Eoghan
Though the first episode of the first season and the third episode of season 3 are very hard to beat. Adding to what I thought of s3 ep3 I felt that one hit me on the same level as s1 ep1 did so.
Though in previous seasons I generally only really liked 2 out of the 3.
@Kaiser, though the previous seasons where only 3 episodes long and you enjoyed 3 out of 6 in this season. So yo essentially get the same amount of enjoyment as previous seasons.
Kaiser Eoghan
Based on my comments, it looks like I had a mixed reaction to the third season. Three out of six, but the great was was great and forgives it but I still feel that there was more of a consistentancy in quality in the other seasons. I enjoyed every story in seasons 1 and 2.
Kaiser Eoghan
The final episode felt like a movie all on its own, I'd have gladly watched another thirty minutes of it, ending was a nice punch in the gut.
Just finished black mirror season 3. I hear people basically complaining that it's not as strong as the previous two season but I disagree. I really enjoyed this and this is a show that deserves much more episodes. Personal favorite is between shut up and dance and hated in the nation. Worst I thought was San Junipero. Overall thought each episode was interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
On the upside I loved black mirrors fifth episode, I'm a sucker for war/action-dramas and I particularly liked the tech in this one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah this is impossible for me to sit through, the romance part is also rather dull.
Kaiser Eoghan
Eh, this fourth episode is plodding and trite, feels like a bad, poorly dated 90s film.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Third episode also instilled a great sense of paranoia.
@Kaiser: thanks for that mate. I have too much to say for Flipflappers but to put them all in coherent flow is goddamn hard. And like I said I still fell I left many details out: that gung-ho potato or Yayaka and the twins
@Friend: jugding from the last convention I went to, people loved Re:Zero customs (Emilia and Rem, Ram were highlights. Or you could try RWBY characters (I for once love to see someone cosplay Pirrha Nikos or Velvet Scarlatina)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Didn't care much for new black mirrors second episode, then again I'm not really the target for that story. The third episode while a bit heavyhanded and predictable was suspenseful, nasty/mean and I liked that about it, did in 50 minutes what some thrillers fail to achieve in two hours.
Holo is a good one :0
Materials aren't a problem at all for the most part, except for anything too crazy like working in brass. I'd prefer it to be characters I'm familiar with.
Does it matter to you that they're from shows that you like, or are you just in it for the challenge?
@Friend Aidan has some good ones there. I'd also give the cast of Akame ga Kiru a shot, I don't like the series but it has a lot of neat character designs.
I was thinking simple as I didn't know what kind of materials you got on hand. I was also thinking of Holo from spice and wolf or Kino from Kinos journey either.
Mm, Tatsumaki might be not challenging enough to design for. Doesn't Shiki simply wear either a coat or Japanese kimono? I do work in set design and not in character prop design, but I'd love to try something that would let me reasonably challenge myself.
@Friend, Spit balling here but Tatsumaki from One Punch Man? I know the costume for that one would be simple enough. Or maybe Shiki from Kara No Kyoukai?
*I don't want to do anything too complex for my first try, but I also don't want to do anything boring. Boring would be a character like Rukia or Celty. Any ideas?
I remember talking about this with Emma/Kaiser before, but has anyone here gone cosplaying at an expo before? I thought it would be neat to try designing my own costume and try something else beside drawing on a computer.
@Kaiser, I am up to episode 4. 3 has been the best one so far.Though in all these episodes I pretty much figured out the twist from the get go. Still this shows always tends to get you thinking.
Kaiser Eoghan
I think the roles/identity thing with flipflappers, at least with the protaganist does fit in well with adolescence.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I've only seen the first episode so far. I felt the acting was intentional and reflected the satire Brooker was going for on the shallow nature of society. Bleak as ever but gloriously grotesque.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario:Good in depth reviewing there Mario of flipflappers episode three.
Good god this first episode of black mirror is hard to watch. I know exactly how it's going to turn out but it's just so damn painful to watch.
Well, tbh up to where I've seen there's not much explicit yaoi in yuri on ice, only a lot of fujoshi fuel.
@Kaiser. thanks for the torrent. Gonna blaze through this today.
@Topgavin, as someone who watches a metric ton of anime I am rather surprised at that estimate that 90% of it contains Yuri.
My god those gay scenes in Yuri on Ice are hard to watch for me. Wonder if this is how it feels to be a girl watching 90% of normal anime nowadays.
okay, Flip Flappers episodic review was up. This is my lengthiest weekly review so far and I still feel I missed a lot of points. Damn you Flip Flappers
Kaiser Eoghan
You have seen the light, not needing to know everything thats happening to enjoy something ^_^
Kaiser Eoghan
I've given some consideration to reviewing that oujia film followup.
Whether you see one or the other is entirely up to your preferences, so it makes no difference to me which is worse. I have gotten very tired of generic character types, but again that's just because of the things I decide to regularly follow.
I will say if it must come down to either unnatural dialogue or unnatural character types, at leas the character type is speaking their own words and not the words of the script writer.
Or was that a black and white fallacy? Maybe it was a little of both.
@Realjustified, K-Off wasn't agreeing with me. That's a Moving the Goal Posts logical Fallacy but well I will answer regardless. Honestly it's preferable to have neither. The big mistake you are making here is that you are putting down a condiction that a show must have one or the other. But both cartoons and anime can have both. I just think it's a lot more prominent in cartoons than anime.
Like, having read hundreds of harem manga over the years, a majority of the ultimate love interest always happens to be the first girl the protagonist meets.
Wait wait wait wait. Aidan and K-Off. I get that dialogue in cartoon can seem like it was written by a script writer, but at the same time, lots of anime have characters whose sole purpose is entirely scripted. The whole spectrum of "deres" and everything. What do you think is worse? Unnatural dialogue, or unnatural character types?
You guys should really go fuck yourself, it's a solution and it's nothing short of great!
You guys should really watch the first 4 episodes of Bungo, it's a prequel and it was nothing short of great!
omg!! I just realized To be Hero was one of the show that I reviewed its 1st episode back in Chinese Animation post. I watched raw then though
forgive me if I'm a bit too overwhelmed by Flip Flappers... For this episode alone I took like 25 screenshots...trying to write a review now...
I have absolutely no idea what is going on in Flip Flappers plot. And yet for some reason I am OK with that.
Anyone out there that's a fan of crude humor should go watch ep.3 of To Be Hero. Certinately stepped it up a notch from the last two humor-wise.
One downside I can think of already is that I'm bound to lose or break one of the detachable controllers. The cost for those pieces is what I'm most interested in.
Nintendo Switch hmm? Honestly it looks too good to be true. I expect some major downsides to this thing.
I like cartoons, don't get me wrong. Certainly good for a change of pace. But there is something about the way they are written that I find rather distracting.
I don't know, maybe if I said it's like the difference from how characters talk in movie vs how characters talk in a sitcom?
@K-Off, I said one liner's or jokes. Not one liner jokes. It's hard to explain. Basically when I hear a conversation in anime even if it is based in stereotypes, it at least feels like a conversation that's being had in the moment. In cartoons however there is a layer of artificiality and it feels like characters know what a person is going to say and has a response prepared.
That's probably why some of my favorite anime in recent years haven't been very heavy on character archetypes, or were either parodies of it.
Comedic dialogue with anime in recent years have leaned too much on the idea of playing off character archetypes. The collected character vs the energetic character, for one. I'd like to see more variety. Some more word play, hyperbolic humor, body humor, etc etc.
@Aidan Not quite sure what you mean by that, because it's certainly not even a majority of cartoons that rely on cheap one liner jokes. I suppose it's entirely up to taste, but I can appreciate the energy in cartoons like Steven Universe or Regular Show when compared to the increasingly repetitive dialogue found in some recent anime.
@Topgavin: I just read that review and his main reason being Shelter is pretentious. oh well! Can't never please anyone.
Thought I'd check out the reviews for Shelter on MAl and the top review is a 1/10. Apparently because it's a cute girl we sympathise with her more, which is bad because reasons. I mean.. what? MAL never ceases to amaze me
@Mario, no. It's more that the dialogue keeps trying to push out one liners or jokes regardless of whose talking.
@Aidan: maybe because they spoke in your native language do you can feel that it's artificial, ya know? I know I have the same problem with Vietnamese drama/ cartoon and maybe Japanese people have that same issues with anime?
By which I mean, the way characters talk in cartoons is very...artificial. Like you can tell that the dialgoue was clearly written beforehand and it never really sounds natural. At least to me.
@Anon, I wouldn't. The writing and structure are too cartoon. What with the episodic nature and dialogue that generally pushes for a comedic tone.
Kaiser Eoghan
Flanagan also directed absentia which I haven't seen yet but I think someone I came across of 4chan linked it to being lovecraftian?
Kaiser Eoghan
Oculus was a film of two halves for me. Hush was a pretty standard home invasion thriller, making the victim deaf was an interesting twist but not as unique as you might think, still suspenseful though.
Kaiser Eoghan
I never saw the first oujia film. Though Mike Flanagan who did the sequel, he's never made a bad movie but he's never really made a great one either.
Kaiser Eoghan
I stick to the firm belief that cartoons and anime, visually should do and be their own thing. I'll prefer a western artstyle for cartoons rather than one pretending to look like anime style.
But this is a good topic and I'm sure everyone has their own opinions so I'm looking to hear some more arguments
@anon352392: no they aren't. For me not because of where their production based, nor their intended audience, but rather their styles, both visually and storytelling-ly, are different
Anime,” they assert, is not a “style” of illustration or animation.
That's where I differ to those guys. For me, anime is a style. In that sense, I consider RWBY, and Canadian-produced short Flutter as an anime. Thunderbolt Fantasy is not and anime-influence shows/movies that are intented for Western audience like AniMatrix or Afro Samurai are anime
@Anon nah they wouldn't be because they aren't made by a japanese producer for the japanese market. Quality isn't the question, production is
NX and Red Dead Redemption 2 trailers tomorrow.
They are good series and i honestly like them alot more than most anime series, would their quality make them anime?
What about cartoons like Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Wander Over Yonder, Star Vs The Forces Of Evil?
In other news a sequel to an absolutely terrible horror movie called Ouija is out and it's...actually pretty good? Wondering if critics were paid off or it is legit good. Well it did have the guy who was behind Oculus and that was a pretty good movie.
Simplify the term down enough and anime is literally anything animated but the whole point of the term is to distinguish it. For to call Spongebob an anime makes me want to projectile vomit. Point is this, you say you watched a cartoon, people think Tom and jerry, Scooby doo etc. You say you watched an anime, people think Cowboy bebop, Attack on titan, etc. Whole point of the term.
For example, I don't consider Avatar or RWBY to be anime for while they use anime style, the writing is fundamentally structured like an American cartoon. Through I would consider Bloodivores an anime even though it was made by a Chinese animation company, making it technically a Chinese cartoon.
As far as what is and isn't anime I honestly think of the term as a means of distinguishing it from cartoon which gives the impression of being for children. It's like Graphic novel is to comic book. Though techically graphic novels are issues of comics bound in book form, the term Graphic novel is often used to distinguish works that go above superhero comics and whatnot.
Basically I think it was due to Porter Robinsons involvement that they didn't consider it anime.
@Aidan: Did the mods give any concrete reasons why they didn't consider it an anime?
@Mario, It wasn't the community that had the problem. It was the mods. The community made it pretty clear that they considered it anime.
So despite the art style is obviously anime, the character speaks in Japanese, and the production was animated by A1 Studios, it's not an anime? Sometimes I feel sad that the anime community keeps limiting themselves with such fixed minds.
I saw it yesterday and yes it was good. For a 5-minute story, they don't make it too overwhelme with details, and still pack an emotional punch. Moreover it elevates the song. Good stuffs.
Shelter was quite good though. It works well and the animation was beautiful. Song is not bad either. It's got a nice emotional punch to it though it's a bit simple a story.
Well anyway I only saw all this because I checked out the video for the first time and wanted to see how others thought of it with a quick scan through reddit. And I get this shitshow instead.
Playing the victim is the one really pisses off the internet. For refusing to admit you f*cked up only encourages people to shove how you f*cked up into your face. That's what really grinds peoples gears.
Yep, seen that too. The mods even put up another tread about the video and tried to guilt trip people by saying they got death threats. Look, internet rules 101. If you said or did something stupid admit to it and just walk away. Do not try to deflect blame or play the victim, that only adds fuel to the fire.
@Aidan oh yeah saw that live lol. Porter himself even commented on twitter about it, gotta love internet drama
So did anyone happen to catch the big old shitstorm of that Shelter music music when a mod of the Anime subreddit decided it wasn't "Anime" enough and removed the discussion post about it? Oh internet drama...what silly nonsense.
Finally caught up with JoJo. Diamond is Unbreakable has turned out to be much better than Stardust Crusaders. Should have waited for the season to finish through as I really loved marathoning it.
I had a feeling that might be the case considering the source materail for luger.
@Mario Oh I watched that, certinately worth it. Packed more story that some 12-episode shows do nowadays and gorgeous animation.
and I will check out "Shelter" music video to see what all the fuss is about
*this weekend to be exact.
Sounds like Luger Code 1951 is an OVA that will air next week, the same air date with "my" Zaregoto OVA.
@Mario: doesn't sound real at all to me lol
@Mario, I might be able to manage. If all else fails I can talk about the past of these historical figures.
While I don't mind watchinng Drifters, I swaer if I had to cover that show, I couldn't come up with anything to say.
Do you guys know what language the fairies speak in Drifters? It does sound like a genuine language
@topgavin: humanity has declined is a great show. It has good writing and dark, witty sense of humor. I could talk about it in length but psgels pretty much covered it all. He was really impressed by that show however.
That should be me covered till the weekend. Why do all my shows air on the weekend...
@Mario nah I've watched the whole thing but I'd heard about it at the start of this year and put it off. The dialogue between her and the fairies was great stuff, probably gonna rewatch it this weekend now that you mention it
Alright, I got three posts written up and will be throwing them out in about two hours or do.
I thought you've finished it. Yeah I love her character a lot, so cynical but witty. My favorite moment was when she read about fairy's plan to invent religions. She was like "so religions are invented?" (beat) "I've learn something new today". Priceless
@Mario Oh nice, it was one that I had heard about but never got round to. To put it in simple anime terms, Watashi is best girl
@topgavin: I just finished the series yo mentioned the other day: humanity is declined. Man, I love it. I know now I have a thing for dark twisted absurdist anime
@Ano340004: the name is Watashi ga Motete Dousunda, or to put it short Motete. I have fun with it but i'm not that enthuastic
@anon the english name is Kiss him, not me. Search through the first impressions if you need the jap name.
then that girl really loves BL (boy love)
what is the name of the anime that the girl is fat and then she got depressed because her favorite boy anime died then she got thin?
Season 7 is awesome so far too. It feels like the tone of the show is finally back to normal and it feels like Adventure Time again.
Whew, I binged all seasons of Adventure Time this weekend. The show hit a low spot in Season 6 but I think it needed to happen...Poor Finn needed the serious character development after what he did to FP.
You guys are too hard on it
Motete is very funny
Kaiser Eoghan
When it comes to gag manga and four-koma, I just eventually reach a stopping point with a comedy series in that format. Even with hidamari sketch.
I think it was typical light novel trash based on what was in the PV. I laughed that despite it being horrible that the crowd still cheered anyway, likely because it had a bath clip in it.
The PV was hilarious. I had no idea what the anime was about.
@Aidan I'm good, I'll stick with Working.
@K-Off, you could switch to something like Gi(a)rlish Number if you like. I for one am really digging the satire of the show. Plus I like that it's basically showing how an utter train-wreck of an anime can be made. That PV in the last episode was truly painful.
Feeling pretty disappointed with Working. I haven't gotten any more cynical with comedies, at least I don't think, and its flaws are so irritating.
@Adam Le, I find that with Comic book dialogue. Which is one of the reasons I have gone off marvel movies. Cartoons have it to a degree as well.
I love the instagram shots in Yuri
Maybe I can have a watch through those live action films and do a compare/contrast to see which version works better. After all movie and tv series are 2 different medium, and live-action vs animation is the topic that we never get tired of
speaking of which, the overlap between anime and live-action adaptation from manga is overwhelming. For this year alone, there were Erased, 3-gatsu no Lion, Fune o Amu, orange, and Chihayafuru (part 1&2). Those were just the ones I know.
@Adam: Don't know which genre you're into but you can try Fune o Amu (The Great Passage)
Adam Le
I can't seem to get into any of these new shows. I don't know, the dialogue always seems off to me and the forced comedy is a big turn off.
Reminds me of a thought I had when I was last at the Getty art museum. People walking past works of art hundreds of years old, but only taking a second-long glance before moving on to the next one. Not their fault really, it's only the professional critics who can understand what they see with depth.
I'm the opposite really, they're getting paid for what they said so they better know their shits
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose I'm slightly envious of professional critics somewhat.
Sometimes you're just meant to experience the ride you know. I don't watch those explained video anymore because after all it's just one guy's opinions.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
And I mean people who art professionals or students.
Kaiser Eoghan
I guess I'm just unsure of something, how many people watching "arty" stuff are able to pick it up on their own. By looking up an "explained video" or "explained essay" to get it, am I copping out?
Kaiser Eoghan
I feel like I've begun getting on board with the european art stuff but am really only scratching the surface with the Chinese and that stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
And find myself missing whats going on sometimes.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll admit I do find it frustrating, that even though I can like art films, emotionally connect at times, appreciate the visual techniques and admire them for being so different without looking up analysis by people far smarter than myself I honestly feel lost sometimes as to the meaning.
@Kaiser: Apichatphong Weerseethakul's films are so otherworldly and spiritual that I wouldn't dare to call them "dreams" anymore. Check out his "Uncle Boonmie", "Syndromes and a Century", "Cemetery of Splendors". he has such singular vision that just watch and experience his films are rewarding enough
@afgm: well, if we really go over-analyze it, bunnies can represent desire for example ^^
like eating sweet snow is so randomness for me
@Badesh: the things you said might be something I might do in the future. After all I love dissecting symbolism. But for Flip Flappers I need to know more what are intentional and what are randomness first
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