Posted by psgels on 10 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Very nice, the plot twists just keep heaping up with this episode. While not as interesting as the third arc yet, there’s plenty of potential left for this in the final two episodes.

The first half of this episode was the usual slaughter-fest in which members of the Ushinomiya-family die rather one-sidedly, though there are several interesting questions raised here: has non-meta-Battler ever directly seen magic up till now? The only point I can think of is the end of the second arc, and that could easily have been an illusion. My guess has always been that what he saw with his eyes happened in real life, and this puts the three phone-calls he made during the first half in a very interesting light.

Right now, my guess is that the murderer used some sort of psychological attack to kill these people. Perhaps some sort of drug or mushroom that made them think that there are things that there actually aren’t. We’ve never really seen Nanjo check for any drug effects, and I can imagine how the killer could have created the flesh wounds afterwards to confuse people and hide the real causes.

A different theory is that the three characters in question found out who the murderer was, and why they were committed. As this seems to have been a very good reason, and simply resigned to their fate.

Because that second half gave a very interesting twist to the whole matter. Beatrice could have acted this again (I see her crazy enough to just ignore Battler like this), but I think that this was one of the first time in which her actions were genuine. Otherwise it would not have made sense for Lambadelta to have shown up.

So the way I see it, Beatrice made a mistake. Something happened six years ago that for some reason really upset her, and she believed Battler to be the culprit… and yet he wasn’t. This wasn’t a case of simple amnesia, he really had no clue what happened. The thing that would make sense is how Rosa killed Beatrice, but this doesn’t make any sense because Beatrice would know this, and she’d be going after Rosa instead.

My guess is that the creators have yet to reveal the exact reason, but I do believe that six years ago multiple things happened that set everything in motion, Rosa’s sin being one of them: I can very well imagine that Kinzou wasn’t really happy when he found out what happened to Beatrice. Also, why couldn’t Battler claim that he’s the son of his mother? Was he switched as a baby with someone else or something? In that case, what happened to the real Battler? And how did this create Battler’s “sin”, six years ago.
Rating: * (Good)

30 Responses

  1. anonymous says:

    First thing that came to my mind was that maybe Battler is Beatrice’s son? Since it seemed so important who his mother was or was not, and Beat seemed to be really upset. She wanted to stop the game right there, like maybe it was an excuse in the first place?
    This is just a theory, so please do not confirm or deny it if you know.

  2. Ian says:

    But Beatrice couldn’t thank Rosa enough for killing her, so why would she kill Rosa back out of revenge for THAT? Besides, for all we know, Beatrice’s death at Rosa’s hands could just apply to the third game as a means of Beatrice explaining the number of people on the island.

  3. Son Gohan says:

    The accident with Rosa happened more than 6 years ago. She was still a young girl, remember? Now she has a 9-year-old daughter.

  4. Deus says:

    The “qualifications” that Beatrice mentions is that her game was set up for “Ushiromiya Battler”, i.e. a Battler of the Ushiromiya family. If this Battler in front of us is not Asumu’s son, then there’s really no guarantee he’s this “Battler” Beatrice wants to face.

    I.e. Perhaps the Battler who “sinned” is somebody else, somebody named Battler (and the one who’s mother is Asumu), but that’s not the Battler in front of Beatrice right now.

  5. Deus says:

    Oh yes, I can’t imagine why the anime left this out, but these statements are in RED:

    * Six years ago for me, no person called Beatrice existed.
    * The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
    * Ushiromiya Battler has a sin.
    * Because of your sin, people die.
    * Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die.

    When Beatrice said this to Battler, she was being entirely genuine.

  6. Camario says:

    I’m a bit disappointed about how quickly everyone died and the episode’s pacing felt rather strange overall, but the number of revelations and new developments makes up for it.

    There’s still two episodes left, which seems plenty of time on paper, so I wonder how they’ll resolve this cliffhanger, of sorts, other than just bringing Battler back after realizing the truth or something along those lines.

    I’m not sure about what kind of “sin” it is either, but everything seems to indicate Battler’s family is involved somehow and the nature of his birth was even directly called into question this time. Maybe he’s not Asumu’s son but rather Rudolf’s son with…Kyrie? Though why that would be a “sin” that Battler should apologize for escapes me. Nobody can realistically be held responsible for such things. There’s a lot more to this, I’m sure, but I don’t know what to make of it right now.

    Btw…after seeing him burst up in flames, it’s also pretty clear that Kinzo died before the arc started (or very early on, at least from the looks of it) and the whole thing about “Goldsmith” was apparently just a setup by Beatrice in order to spite Battler.

  7. Marion says:

    The entire thing with Beato talking is that she was very genuine about it. It’s not as if she’s trying to trick Battler: she honestly wants him to remember his sin and repent.

    Now the sin could have something to do with his mother (hence why Battler couldn’t repeat in red that he was born from his mother) but at the same time the Beato that Piece-Battler meets on the island says the sin has to do with Rokkenjima and not his immediate family. It might even have something to do with her, hence why she’s so upset.

    @Camario: Kyrie being Battler’s real mother is a very plausible fact. There is nothing saying Rudolf isn’t Battler’s father and I see no reason myself to believe otherwise. Unless Rudolf was three-timing Asumu and Kyrie then logically I say Kyrie is the mother.

    The question is how – Kyrie herself doesn’t seem to know about it at least. But I’m sure Rudolf probably has some insight on the issue. I somehow doubt that he wouldn’t be aware.

  8. Writer says:

    Perhaps it was Battler’s not going to the conferences that was his sin; I can’t remember is that’s it for sure, but I remember that Battler didn’t go to the conferences for a long time, or even live with his parents, due to Rudolf marrying Kyrie, or something like that.

    Perhaps that’s the sin that Beatrice talks about; in his absence, the Beatrice legend is stirred, and someone on the island, or perhaps stung by Battler’s going to his grandparents’ home, gets the idea to start the murders. Strange how Battler’s return to the conferences, in which he sees his cousins for the first time in many years, is when these games start happening, ne?

  9. Writer says:

    To add to my previous comment, I think I have an idea about how Beatrice is still coming around in the meta-world; Maria. Think about it; Beatrice and Maria have remarkably similar hair colors, along with Rosa’s to begin with, and seeing as Rosa has considered herself to be hard shipped with Maria since she was at a young age, perhaps Rosa got drunk one night and revealed what happened in a drunken confession while nobody was about, save Maria who was too young to realize what was being said.

    Now, I know that earlier in this arc, Maria herself became a witch (sort of), but remember something; a part of Eva’s personality became a witch as well, and both women remained as separate entities. Perhaps Beatrice diverged from Maria enough that they themselves could be separate and still coexist together.

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming. As for everything else, eh, my theory still in the development stages.

  10. Bane says:

    You know, this being one of those naku koro ni series, I bet we will have to wait until episode 26 of the sequel before the whole Battler/sin thing gets cleared up. I don’t think it was even revealed in the source material yet.

  11. Marion says:

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming.

    Maria was 3 when Battler stopped coming. The beginning of EP 1 when she was introduced it was said she didn’t even remember who he was and Battler had a vague memory of her too, so it was like meeting each other for the first time.

  12. Pafiume says:

    I don’t understand what Beatrice is talking about, saying that Battler isn’t Kinzo’s grandson. She only made it clear that he’s not Asumu’s son (which I’d been thinking for a while, although I don’t know why), but not that Rudolf is not his father. And Rudolf is the one who’s actually blood related, isn’t he? I mean, if he isn’t Rudolf’s son, fine, but using his mother, who is not a blood Ushiromiya, as an excuse to get out of the game is dumb. It’s just a way to get the revelation across.

    Personally, I want to know about Kinzo’s wife. I only remember hearing about her once, in passing. I feel like Battler’s sin has to do with either her, Asumu, or Ange. I suppose it’s more likely with Asumu or Ange though, since Ange is six in 1986, and Asumu probably died around that time.

  13. Writer says:

    @Pafiume;

    What Beatrice just used was a technicality; though Battler’s father isn’t being disproved, the fact that his biological mother isn’t Asumu means that he’s an illegitimate child of Rodulf, and technically not a real part of the family. Well, I’m not sure if it entirely works that way, but it means that Battler’s position in the family should really be much lower, and by Kinzo’s standards would probably not even be a grandchild of his at all. That’s probably what she’s using – a backdoor of sorts, in case she becomes bored and wants to have an easy way out.

  14. PL says:

    Somebody on here once asked a rather good question…”Why isn’t Ange allowed to come to the island in 1986?” She’s the only grandchild who is not there. If she is six years old in 1986, then Battler’s sin takes place around the time she was born and/or concieved…hmmm

  15. 4saken says:

    @Pafiume:
    In the game, Beatrice said that Battler is not the real Ushiromiya Battler, but an imposter (there’s a fact the anime didn’t make clear is noone, except Rudolf and Kyrie, recognized Battler because they haven’t met him for six years, they just knew that he’s Battler because Rudolf said so) That’s why she requested him to say in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu” and “you were born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. Battler could say the first but couldn’t say the latter.

  16. @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&* says:

    Well it was said in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. It just can’t be done when Ushiromiya Battler was replaced by “I”.

    So it should be assumed that “Battler” isn’t the same Ushiromiya Battler who was born from Asumu.

    Then I realized, the speaker here isn’t Battler. It’s Meta-Battler. The “real” Battler is still alive on the game board. And this “real” Battler was born from Asumu. While Meta-Battler exists outside of the game board and was “born” to compete with Beatrice at the end of EP1, he isn’t exactly born of Asumu.

  17. Marion says:

    @ @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&*

    It doesn’t work that way. Meta-Battler is still Battler, whether on the gameboard or in the metaworld.

  18. Mana says:

    We shouldn’t forget that by this point, we know that there’s a difference between the red truth and the blue truth. Presumably the red truth pertains to truths that accept the existance of witches, and the blue truth pertains to those that deny them.

    Since Beato specifically requested for Battler to say it in red, whether or not Battler was born from Asumu may very well be dependant on whether or not magic is real.

  19. Lloyd says:

    I am so mad that I will be without internet for the next three weeks, and won’t find out anything until New years. That last revelation made my jaw drop.

  20. Deus says:

    I’m personally with Writer in the whole issue. To me, the “sin” is Battler simply going away six years ago. He made a promise to “someone”, then simply went away and forgot about it.

    “Beatrice” is the personification of this someone. She’s not really a witch, and we may even already know this person.

    Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever”, or “I’ll always be there”. Battler never does. Six years pass, Battler sees this person again, and completely forgets. This person, driven mad (presumably because something (very bad* happens in Battler’s absence, and which Battler was never there to prevent), starts killing people.

    Since the things piece-Battler observes with his own senses are credible, there was definitely someone real in that balcony. It was dark, however, which may have impaired his vision.

    The two most likely suspects for this “someone”: Shanon and Jessica.

    They fit, agewise. Battler even mentions she had a crush on Shannon at some point. Piece-Beatrice looks remarkably like Jessica, she has almost the same clothes, her room is just under the balcony, and the first thing Battler sees when going to the mansions is piece-Beatrice (not conclusively seeing Jessica’s corpse). We’ve seen the “lying phonecall” trick before in Higurashi.

  21. Aetheus says:

    The simplest theory is that Battler is an impostor – sometime in the past, the real Battler was either killed/died/disappeared, and this Battler replaced him. It does not, however, rule out that Battler is not an Ushiromiya. After all, Battler himself has memories of “running away from home”. It might be that Battler is infact Kinzo’s son by an unknown mother, who was sent to be raised by Rudolf & Asumu in secrecy as the other siblings would view him as another threat to their inheritance. When Rudolf’s child, the “real Battler” passed on, the current Battler takes over his identity, and “runs away from home” for a few years in order to preserve the secret. Of course, there are plenty of holes in this theory – Battler himself would have memories of his “brother” (which he apparently doesn’t), and Kinzo still refers to Battler as his “grandson”, even in private. And of course, there is no known character who could be “fake Battler”‘s real mother (it can’t be Beatrice herself, because she says that she never met Battler 6 years ago)

  22. Anon says:

    You guys are overthinking this.

    Beatrice just wants Battler to give her the pony he promised.

    P.S. I see a lot of talk of “a second season,” but that’s never going to happen with these DVD sales.

  23. Anon says:

    I reckon Battler is Rudolfs son, but his mother is some unknown woman, not Asumu or Kyrie, however he was raised as Asumu’s son, and the rest of the family assumed he was her son.

  24. thestation says:

    @Anon;
    But that would mean Rudolf was dating Kyrie, Asumu, and an unknown woman at once, wouldn’t that be really overdoing it:P?

    And also, about Battler’s sin, it can’t be anything else than what Deus and Writer said.
    It already was said that Battler wasn’t there 6 years ago on Rokkenjima.
    And Beatrice said that it had to do with Rokkenjima, so the only conclusion is that he didn’t prevent something he should have. What the hell it was is still a blank, though..
    ’cause why the fuck :P would Beato be upset when it’s proven in red that it doesn’t have anything to do with her?

    ”Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever E or “I’ll always be there E”

    I can really see this happening , though I really don’t hope so. It sounds really cliché.

    Also, especially VN players;
    doesn’t anyone remind Umineko no Naku Koro ni of Phoenix Wright:P ?
    The Meta world seems like a courtroom, and when I saw some videos of the VN on YouTube,
    it reminded me so much of Phoenix Wright.
    Or am I the only one:P?

  25. Deus says:

    Pretty much. Battler even has his pose.

    There’s actually a good fanmade parody of it, but its not good to link to until the end of the 4th arc.

  26. Nyoron says:

    By any chance, does Battler not being born by Asumu have something to go with Kyrie being envious of Asumu for 18 years? Doesn’t that mean that Kyrie has something to do with it, considering Battler is 18 during Umineko.

  27. sheratan says:

    I think that the current Battler is not the Battler which visited the island six years before.

    My guess:

    *Asumu had a child called Battler

    * For some reason, Asumu’s real child got killed six years ago

    *Asumu replace the original Battler by another one she took at the orphan

    *This is the reason why the current “Battler” cannot remember what happened six years ago.

    And yes! My guess was greatly inspired by a Desperate Housewives’ episode; the season 4 finale

  28. ebisu says:

    Well Jessica and George killed clearly each other. They answered a kill the others in the end. And someone with a rifle killed a lot of the characters. The Blue Truth from Battler I don’t consider it’s been argued correctly by the moment so he still has a chance(Kinzo dies again by being burnt out so he might have been dead since the beginning, (Note that Battler don’t see nor talk directly to him, so I think this is a possibility)). And about the sin, if Battler can’t say he’s Asumu’s son, then he is the son of Kyrie or another character(maybe Bea from the previous arc). Or he just really thinks Kyrie’s his mother too strongly. Not enough info I think.

  29. vaniba12 says:

    Beatrice says that no one understands magic, so maybe his “sin” was that he denied magic six years ago just as he’s doing now?

  30. artemis19 says:

    well, its probably to late to through in my own thoughts. but near the end of episode 4 in the game, Bernkastel and Lambadelta appear before Battler and he states ‘I had a feeling I’d met her somewhere (too), but I couldn’t remember.’

    Isn’t that kind of strange? Maybe his sin has some connection to these two witches that he has never had a connection with until that moment? After all, they seem to be the real puppetmasters of this game.

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SuperMario
@Niello: Aside from your #1 (which ưe'll agree to disagree here), it's a nice set of shows you're follwing this season. Did you watch Violet Evergarden first episode thou and how did you think about it?
SuperMario
Great. Now I can't even send message here through my laptop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: i think it's the same issue with kisscartoon. The original site was shut down sometimes ago, and now there are plenty of Kisscartoon's fake domains that are annoying as hell
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: its back up now though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its front page has server issues from time to time sometimes for hours.
SuperMario
I just read some manga on kissmanga a week ago, is the site down already?
Niello
Well to be fair batoto is down because of the site owner personal reason.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So Mangahere, mangachapter, baoto, animea seem to be gone and kissmangas front page is down , mangafox is slow, whats next to go down....
Niello
I don't currently see an anime this season that really stands out from the others. Right now if I have to rank them
1) Miira no kaikata
2) Kokkoku
3) Sora yori mo tooi basho
4) Koi wa ameagari no you ni
5) Takagi-san.
Not counting Devilman Crybaby since it's already finished.
Niello
@Eoghan I love Urobuchi and still find the Godzilla film weak.
SuperMario
I just looked through the nominations for the Crunchyroll Anime Awards and to my surprise, it's a pretty solid lineups. Find myself agreeing with most of their choices there
AidanAK47
Actually forgot about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't know why you don't just read kara no shoujo 2 instead.
AidanAK47
And Himawari is actually boring me. It's proving difficult to push myself though just to see where the point that makes it highly regarded comes in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: In the end I was pretty much curious about it.
AidanAK47
Yep, that's it. Gonna stop discord displaying what I play from now on. It's weird when people comment on it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Now my current rankings: 1. Devilman
2.Junji itou
3. sangatsu
4. Cardcaptor sakura
5. Pop team
6. Evergarden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Aidan
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm joking obviously, but I am surprised to see you playing Himawari Aiden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh Aidan you and your lolicon visual novel you =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Alonaria: Shin Godzilla had the evolving godzilla thing and that freaky ass final shot too, it also justified itself quite well i think by showing how relevent he is today, given the nuclear thing and that it drew on the Fukushima incident essentially.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Alonaria: Thats a far better and shorter way of putting it than I.
Alonaria
I wish I'd just waited for the other parts of the Godzilla movie trilogy to be released. As it is, I'm just going to remember it as "that incomplete movie." And the character designs kind of blurred together for me, which was really disorienting.
Anonymous1746949
Oh psgels is back
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I've seen other Godzilla things so I pretty much was supposed to see this anyway.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Or you know you could always take what I said with a pinch of salt, because you know....I don't get on with Urobutcher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea behind it is definately cool and a different spin for the franchise though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe I was held back a bit by the cgi or the mediorce voice acting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I'd need to see its followup before properly assessing it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Godzilla often makes for silly films, but lke alot of silly older films the silliness and seriousness combine without clashing, this one is too Poe faced .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I saw that Godzilla anime film, I'd describe it as watchable in parts but far too caught up in setup mode and an unlikeable protaganist , it could go somewhere with what it raised at the start but this is an example of a first film in a trilogy that suffers from being unable to currently stand on its own.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I generally feel that Itou's stories have a winning track record but theres exceptions, Uzumaki and Gyo in manga form struggle toward the end and the first episode story the anime chose to adapt is, while fun one of the weaker offerings.
Alonaria
Honestly, the shorter stories have been more effective at getting a reaction out of me, though. I actually didn't really enjoy the first episode's first story, mostly because I found the MC too obnoxious. :.D Maybe because my younger brother chased me with a bug once and it was really unpleasant. XD
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: It wasn't just it coming out of her mouth, but when they were stamping on them too.
Anonymous1743747
@Kaiser: Yah, I was horrified for like 5 seconds but the other characters made me crack up. :.D
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although it was mixed in with laughing my ass of eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of all the Itou stories to be un-nerved by, its the second half of this third episode oddly that does it for me and I never get uncomfortable during anything .
AidanAK47
@Anon, We are working on it.
Anonymous1742736
Are you planning on making a top anime of 2017 list?
Amagi
Yeah Mash is one of the few good ones it seems.
Amagi
Oh damn, good that you remind me, I didn't pick anything yet. But I guess I will go with Altera, considering that some of them don't look that good and I own her anyway. Would have wanted the Scat one but the drawing looks weird.
AidanAK47
Which Bond CE did you pick for the 2 mill? I went with the Mash one. Only only whose artwork I liked.
AidanAK47
Might settle for making Bryn my endgame lancer though.
AidanAK47
As I said in my Apocrypha post, I have no interest in any version of Jeanne. My top priorities for my endgame team is Isekander, Scathach and assassin Shiki. And Shiki is a welfare so only need to worry about the other two.
Amagi
Yeah, I was considering to keep rolling for the new 4* at first but I really want Jeanne Alter and she's coming soon.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I tried rolling for Karna and got nothing. Though I think Bryn is better. I plan on rolling one more time with the saint quartz we are getting to try for NP2. Though we do have the valintines event coming.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here, just got Brynhildr. Even though I already got Karna last month. But I wanted her, nice design, finally a single-targed 5* and she's even one of the few servants related to my country.
KTravlos
@SuperMario. The contemplation of the death of humanity, and the loneliness, both were very disturbing to me. Kinda like thinking of my grave.
AidanAK47
YANDERE GET. Bryn's mine baby.
AidanAK47
Gonna try rolling for Brynhildr tomorrow. Bit annoyed they chose to translate it as Brynhild. I mean it's not incorrect but her name is far more recognisable as Brynhildr
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The grind wasn't that bad for me. Mordred carried me for it. Though I managed to get Siegfried in the gacha despite not being on rate up. I admit that the event was rather lackluster. Story wasn't that fun and the whole saber restriction was a pain. Also gonna take me a while to readjust to regular damage.
Amagi
Man that FGO Saber Wars event was annoying. I am happy finally I have 2 mio. altrium now and am done with it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Reminder that netflix Godzilla anime is later today.
Amagi
Damn I didn't noticed that ankle band of the little demon from the intro scene of FranXX 01, now I feel stupid.
Lenlo
Yuasa is great! Ping pong and Tatami Galaxy are still some of my favorites
SuperMario
Oh fuck, the lead singer of the Cranberries passed away. I literally just listened to their music yesterday. Damnn, sad news
SuperMario
@Kaiser; thanks for considering me but I believe Wooper is much more a Yuasa's fan than I am
SuperMario
Far out!!!
SuperWooper
Yuasa will be answering questions on Reddit's anime board on the 20th.
SuperMario
@Niello: what do you mean regarding Yuasa?
SuperMario
@Travlos: I agree that Girls Last Tour is a special little gem, but in what ways it's disturbing?
Niello
Holy cow, Masaaki Yuasa AMA!! What magic is this?
Niello
Meawhile, Japan took a different approach and we ends up with a bunch of .hack rehash and diving more and more into escapism. Until we eventually got isekai and then it just spiraled into a sea of mediocrity.
Niello
While that opened its own can of worms, at least it opens up element about making ends meet, managing irl relationships, earning extra income for a poor family, getting cheated etc.
Niello
in the characters real life just fine. Something more a long the line of Net-juu but more technologically advanced. And I would say that plenty of those have been superior to Japanese online game and isekai story shenanigans. That said, it doesn't mean that those don't have their own kind of traps they usually fall in. A bunch of those instead focus on the aspect of making money off of games.
Niello
...Getting stuck in a virtual reality game and being transport to another world that happens to be like a game are completely different though. I don't know what is it with Japan and getting stuck in game plots considering that there are loads of other game-base Asian novels that came before it that manage story lines where they manage to tell compelling stories in game while balancing what happen
KTravlos
I finally finished Girls Last Tour. What a profound, fluffy and disturbing masterpiece. Bravo.
Amagi
Yeah. I feel the world swap is pretty much pointless when real life isn't relevant anymore. It's just a stupid as hell excuse to combine fantasy wish fullfilment with self-inserts, which is why these main characters tend to be 29 by now, just like the big part of the otaku community.
Lenlo
Of those you listed, no, I dont think they get explained? I mean, SAO did, but I dont think that falls into your category.

Thats why I liked .hack//sign over alot of more modern game Isekai. Also .hack//sign did explain what happened to Tsukasa.
Amagi
Considering how bad most of these are I wouldn't wonder if they wouldn't even bother with an explanation and just end it with the characters being happy in that game world and that's it. Or magic and the whole harem gets transported into reality at the end because power of love and such.
Amagi
I have no problem with a sci-fi fantasy mix, I liked .hack//sign for example, but it annoys me that such an incredibly bizarre situation gets never explained. Or maybe it will but it never happened so far because none of these LNs was ever finished and concluded yet. I just wish to know how they explain that.
Amagi
I mean all those shows in which the character just finds himself stuck in a real world that's (coincidentally?) the same as the game he recently played. Be it Overlord, Death March, Log Horizon or the 300 other series with that premise.
Amagi
Some thing that always bothered me about game isekai for which I never got an answer so far: did any of those series ever end and/or explain how the warp has happened and why the MC is in the game? - Not talking about .hack, SAO and such where the action of getting trapped is part of the premise
Niel
@Eoghan - Btw, Kokkoku isn't a time travel. it's stasis, apparently. Looks very promising so far. Though if I am to trust the manga score, it's shit.
Niel
But is Toradora really slice of life? As far as I can see it's straight up romance.
Lenlo
And Mario, ill rag on SOL all I want! :P

Wooper, its true good shows transcend genre, as there are still some like Toradora I like, but those are exceptions that prove the rule so to speak.
Lenlo
@Niel, yeah I base my potential % on the odds something gets/stays good.
AidanAK47
I am of similar mindset about Franxx. I want it to get better but I don't really see it doing so. Unless the other characters get a majority personality boost or the MC stops being a plank.
Niel
XD
Kaiser-Eoghan
I confess....I only sat through just over half an episode of aldonoah.
Niel
Since it's Trigger, I will give the benefit of the doubt. I'm just very skeptical about this whole formula.
Niel
The way I can see this series improving is through world building. And if other aspects are going to improve too, it's going to revolve around that.
Niel
It leaves about as much impression on me as much as the first episode of Aldnoah did, and I dropped that one straight away. The character chemistry doesn't look like it will go places that's not cliche. The gimmick doesn't seem like it has much potential either.
Niel
So you're all betting it on "this is going to get better". I mean, I hope it gets better. Though right now this feels more Kiznaiver than Kill la Kill or LWA.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd nominate Mario to do the devilman review as he's the most immediate Yuasa fan to do it and Bam is too awol to write it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The cute girl shows just bleed and blend in my mind now, same with the isekai shows.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Devilman, my show of the season, unless after the rain ends up having some emotional wallop.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So for me its looking like: Junji itou, Cardcaptor sakura, keeping up with sangatsu, wait and see on amegari . Not watching a time travel or trigger show and I remain unable to sit through Mahoutsukai .
Amagi
The story itself is generic so far but so are most Trigger series at the beginning so not sure. Maybe it will stay weak, but in general I prefer series that start with the weaker episodes and get better and better over time over the many series that use up all of their budget and trump cards in the first episode and drag on after that.
Amagi
I really love Trigger's esthetics and their characters. I am happy they're more often involved in non-trigger-only productions because I honestly think that most of the stuff I enjoyed about FranXX was heavily influenced by them.
SuperMario
@Nielo: Franxx's first ep was stellar for me. Storywise, it's lackluster (and I see the similar in tropes between this and Beatless) but production-wise it's excellent
SuperMario
I think I just keep watching it on a weekly basis. Still trippy as hell
SuperMario
Okay, I just watched second episode of Devilman Crybaby and it's still pretty good.
Nielo
By the way, what's up with Darling in the Franxx? I thought it's a very weak first episode.
Nielo
@Lenlo: Slice of life isn't my thing either, and I usually avoid series set in high school.
Nielo
@SuperMario: Takagi-san is cute, I'll admit that, but since I already read the manga it's not new to me. Sora Yori is good, but it's not particularly cute. I found Hakumei to Mikochi and Yuru Camp very boring. Haven't got the chance to watch Mitsuboshi Colors or Gakuen Babysisters but I don't think they could be more cute than Mii-kun.
SuperWooper
HOT TAKE: Genre is irrelevant. What matters is whether a show is good.
SuperMario
Don't knock off MY genre Lenlo. It's one of the reason I got into anime in the first place :)
Lenlo
Im not saying it doesn't do what it sets out to. I just don't think what it sets out to do is all that... great.
Lenlo
@Niello, Slice of Life was never my Genre in the first place :/ I typically avoid them. I have my own life to deal with and already graduated high school, why would I want to deal with a melodramatic anime highschool, is my line of thought.
SuperMario
@Niello: okay, let's see:Takagi-san (the titular character), Mitsuboshi Colors, Gakuen Babysisters (Toddlers!!), Hakumei to Milochi (tiny girls) and two more slightly more mature but equally cute: Sora Yori and Yuru Camp's casts
Nielllo
@SuperMario: I'm sure this is where our definition of "cute" parts way, but I'll ask anyway, what are those 5 shows?
SuperMario
@Niello: seems so because I can eaisily pick 5 more shows that are cuter, and better than Mummy this season ;)
Nielllo
...So I suppose I'm the only one who's kinda bored out by a lot of the slice of life shows that's trying to be cute this season and only perked up by the Mummy anime because it's actually do what it's meant to do and be legit cute.
Lenlo
I am interested in Koi, but still have concern about the relationship itself.

@Vonter, the mummy anime would be better as short vignettes together I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Koi amegari is surprisingly tasteful, subdued and pretty.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*to where
Kaiser-Eoghan
Try as I might, my love of kyoani tv anime has largely evaporated did where I no longer want to bother at this stage, I'll just wait and see. I'll just stay quiet on the franxx anime, theres little value in me trying to get through a trigger work at this point.
SuperMario
I get the exact same feeling with Takagi-san. It's pretty good on what it does but 20 minutes of the same thing for a whole season doesn't sound that promising
Vonter
The chibi mummy anime
Vonter
It's a shame it isn't a shorter 10 or 5 minute series, I think that format would make it shine more, since it does what it's trying to do.
Amagi
Speaking of it, I liked the second episode of Kokkuko or whatever the name is even more than the first one.
Amagi
I really have a problem with all these shows that rely on one single thing, joke, shenanigan or whatever. Be it something cute, some certain kind of interactiong or whatever. It doesn't matter how good it is it will bore me with episode 2.
Lenlo
Like, yeah, the mummy was cute. But the cute became rote/bland really quick. There has to be more than "cute" to be worth watching for more than a single episode to me.
Lenlo
@Niello, I was harsh because its not aimed at me. I wanted to drop it 5 minutes in, kept up for the post, then was thankful it was over. There wasnt anything overtly bad about it. Its just there was nothing good either.
AidanAK47
To be fair it's not as if we are lacking cute in this season.
In fact it's in danger of inflation.
SuperMario
@Niello: yes, the mummy is cute, the show is cute but beside that it's pretty mediocre. That show in particular is the only show that I have the damnest time to give it a potential rating.
Niello
It's not even down because of legal reasons, since the site pull down contents that are lincensed. It's down cause it's too much for the site owner to manage. Much of it also have to do with too many bots, which comes back to how a lot of other sites are relying on batoto.
Niello
@Masky: Not enough manga titles are getting translated. Batoto is the site scanlation groups basically rely on, and where other aggregation sites pull their content from. No batoto no obscure titles, a big blow to small scantation groups and one big manga/scanlator community down.
Niello
Why are you guys so harsh on the mummy show? It's so darn cute. Give it some credit. If a comedy show can be good because it does comedy well I don't see why a show ike Mummy can't be good if it can make people go "aww".
Masky
I don't really know why that is the case, maybe marketing budget and UI friendliness when done right? :P
Masky
Eh, wouldn't say it will kill manga industry. I mean, more and more official methods of reading manga online is starting to pop up and legit channels to pay to get access to manga can surprisingly enough harm free channels to get manga.
Masky
Anyway, I do find it funny how how the isekai character dies can be so meaningless that is joke in most of them
Niello
Batoto is going down, how this affect the manga reading is going to be interesting. Hope it's not slowly dying.
Masky
(at least that one, besides forgetting to introduce what the heck is gimmick besides generickness, acknowledged how most of otaku mcs shouldn't erally want to get transferred to fantasy world since they never get to see how their favourite mangas end :P )
Masky
Anyhoo, it gets annoying since its not just isekai being cliche, sometimes is just them being kind of badly written(or at least adapted to manga). Like, I found one new isekai today, but I have no idea what its gimmick is(from what I understood, its that "cute companion" that character gets is hideously op because mc didn't spefy cute girl when he asked god manager dude for cute companion)
Masky
Slime one is one of better from the more generic ones weirdly enough :P I mean I still wouldn't call it good, but at least MC character isn't god tier, just top tier and it has sort of village building simulation feel to it. Plus at least naming things giving monsters more powers is something funny regarding jrpg mechanics
Kaiser-Eoghan
Or alternatively the car was on a boat with the character or parents in it and the boat and car were hit by a falling plane lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its always "car accident" that sends the characters to another world or in harem cases "Lost parents due to car crash", for christs sake doesn't anyone die in out of control plane or speedboat crashes anymore, at least make it a motorbike....
Nayrael
Ah sorry, should probably not have touched the colors...
Nayrael
Trust me, Isekai is better when it doesn't try to be imaginative. When it tries to be original then... Isekai with a Smartphone... Isekai where the MC turns into a Slime... and my favorite: Isekai where the MC became a Hot Spring popular with sexy girls.
Masky
Assuming "new" things can happen under the sun
Masky
Anyhoo, I do wonder what the heck will be next "popular genre trope that will become so overused cliche that everyone groans whenever show uses it even if its actually good show"
Masky
Like, seriously you could do really interesting story variant on isekai with that if done right. Suddenly becoming characters you have roleplayed would be trippy as hell espicially if one of characters went really into detail with backstory while one of them is just "Bob the fighter, he likes fighting" and has to deal with what happens when you assume life of such a person
Masky
But I wouldn't honestly be surprised because of my anger issues related to amount of unimaginative isekai :P Though I guess trpg based one would be more imaginative in comparison
Masky
I'd assume not since I assume tabletop rpgs are much more niche than jrpgs in japan
Masky
So has anyone yet done isekai where guys getting transferred were playing trpg? :P
KTravlos
quite happy with most recent Attack of Titan manga chapter.
SuperMario
Alright, one more impression post to go before we really get on to new season
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yep, I just fixed it. Thank you
Kaiser-Eoghan
*than just the reviewers names
Kaiser-Eoghan
A slight problem with the coding there in the newest impression, showing code gobbledeegook rather than the reviewers names above their impressions.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm seeing it on 2nd of February.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Late screeners generally leak shortly after the uk release, so maybe early Febbruary it'll be online?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yep, Phantom Thread. Could be Daniel Day Lewis's final performance. Is it available online already?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Did you know that Paul Thomas Anderso8n has a new film coming out? Also I found out there is a Polish semi-knockoff of purple rose of cairo.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Awesome, just got myself an invite to a secret private torrent site =)
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Featured Posts

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