Posted by psgels on 10 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Very nice, the plot twists just keep heaping up with this episode. While not as interesting as the third arc yet, there’s plenty of potential left for this in the final two episodes.

The first half of this episode was the usual slaughter-fest in which members of the Ushinomiya-family die rather one-sidedly, though there are several interesting questions raised here: has non-meta-Battler ever directly seen magic up till now? The only point I can think of is the end of the second arc, and that could easily have been an illusion. My guess has always been that what he saw with his eyes happened in real life, and this puts the three phone-calls he made during the first half in a very interesting light.

Right now, my guess is that the murderer used some sort of psychological attack to kill these people. Perhaps some sort of drug or mushroom that made them think that there are things that there actually aren’t. We’ve never really seen Nanjo check for any drug effects, and I can imagine how the killer could have created the flesh wounds afterwards to confuse people and hide the real causes.

A different theory is that the three characters in question found out who the murderer was, and why they were committed. As this seems to have been a very good reason, and simply resigned to their fate.

Because that second half gave a very interesting twist to the whole matter. Beatrice could have acted this again (I see her crazy enough to just ignore Battler like this), but I think that this was one of the first time in which her actions were genuine. Otherwise it would not have made sense for Lambadelta to have shown up.

So the way I see it, Beatrice made a mistake. Something happened six years ago that for some reason really upset her, and she believed Battler to be the culprit… and yet he wasn’t. This wasn’t a case of simple amnesia, he really had no clue what happened. The thing that would make sense is how Rosa killed Beatrice, but this doesn’t make any sense because Beatrice would know this, and she’d be going after Rosa instead.

My guess is that the creators have yet to reveal the exact reason, but I do believe that six years ago multiple things happened that set everything in motion, Rosa’s sin being one of them: I can very well imagine that Kinzou wasn’t really happy when he found out what happened to Beatrice. Also, why couldn’t Battler claim that he’s the son of his mother? Was he switched as a baby with someone else or something? In that case, what happened to the real Battler? And how did this create Battler’s “sin”, six years ago.
Rating: * (Good)

30 Responses

  1. anonymous says:

    First thing that came to my mind was that maybe Battler is Beatrice’s son? Since it seemed so important who his mother was or was not, and Beat seemed to be really upset. She wanted to stop the game right there, like maybe it was an excuse in the first place?
    This is just a theory, so please do not confirm or deny it if you know.

  2. Ian says:

    But Beatrice couldn’t thank Rosa enough for killing her, so why would she kill Rosa back out of revenge for THAT? Besides, for all we know, Beatrice’s death at Rosa’s hands could just apply to the third game as a means of Beatrice explaining the number of people on the island.

  3. Son Gohan says:

    The accident with Rosa happened more than 6 years ago. She was still a young girl, remember? Now she has a 9-year-old daughter.

  4. Deus says:

    The “qualifications” that Beatrice mentions is that her game was set up for “Ushiromiya Battler”, i.e. a Battler of the Ushiromiya family. If this Battler in front of us is not Asumu’s son, then there’s really no guarantee he’s this “Battler” Beatrice wants to face.

    I.e. Perhaps the Battler who “sinned” is somebody else, somebody named Battler (and the one who’s mother is Asumu), but that’s not the Battler in front of Beatrice right now.

  5. Deus says:

    Oh yes, I can’t imagine why the anime left this out, but these statements are in RED:

    * Six years ago for me, no person called Beatrice existed.
    * The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
    * Ushiromiya Battler has a sin.
    * Because of your sin, people die.
    * Due to your sin, a great many humans on this island die.

    When Beatrice said this to Battler, she was being entirely genuine.

  6. Camario says:

    I’m a bit disappointed about how quickly everyone died and the episode’s pacing felt rather strange overall, but the number of revelations and new developments makes up for it.

    There’s still two episodes left, which seems plenty of time on paper, so I wonder how they’ll resolve this cliffhanger, of sorts, other than just bringing Battler back after realizing the truth or something along those lines.

    I’m not sure about what kind of “sin” it is either, but everything seems to indicate Battler’s family is involved somehow and the nature of his birth was even directly called into question this time. Maybe he’s not Asumu’s son but rather Rudolf’s son with…Kyrie? Though why that would be a “sin” that Battler should apologize for escapes me. Nobody can realistically be held responsible for such things. There’s a lot more to this, I’m sure, but I don’t know what to make of it right now.

    Btw…after seeing him burst up in flames, it’s also pretty clear that Kinzo died before the arc started (or very early on, at least from the looks of it) and the whole thing about “Goldsmith” was apparently just a setup by Beatrice in order to spite Battler.

  7. Marion says:

    The entire thing with Beato talking is that she was very genuine about it. It’s not as if she’s trying to trick Battler: she honestly wants him to remember his sin and repent.

    Now the sin could have something to do with his mother (hence why Battler couldn’t repeat in red that he was born from his mother) but at the same time the Beato that Piece-Battler meets on the island says the sin has to do with Rokkenjima and not his immediate family. It might even have something to do with her, hence why she’s so upset.

    @Camario: Kyrie being Battler’s real mother is a very plausible fact. There is nothing saying Rudolf isn’t Battler’s father and I see no reason myself to believe otherwise. Unless Rudolf was three-timing Asumu and Kyrie then logically I say Kyrie is the mother.

    The question is how – Kyrie herself doesn’t seem to know about it at least. But I’m sure Rudolf probably has some insight on the issue. I somehow doubt that he wouldn’t be aware.

  8. Writer says:

    Perhaps it was Battler’s not going to the conferences that was his sin; I can’t remember is that’s it for sure, but I remember that Battler didn’t go to the conferences for a long time, or even live with his parents, due to Rudolf marrying Kyrie, or something like that.

    Perhaps that’s the sin that Beatrice talks about; in his absence, the Beatrice legend is stirred, and someone on the island, or perhaps stung by Battler’s going to his grandparents’ home, gets the idea to start the murders. Strange how Battler’s return to the conferences, in which he sees his cousins for the first time in many years, is when these games start happening, ne?

  9. Writer says:

    To add to my previous comment, I think I have an idea about how Beatrice is still coming around in the meta-world; Maria. Think about it; Beatrice and Maria have remarkably similar hair colors, along with Rosa’s to begin with, and seeing as Rosa has considered herself to be hard shipped with Maria since she was at a young age, perhaps Rosa got drunk one night and revealed what happened in a drunken confession while nobody was about, save Maria who was too young to realize what was being said.

    Now, I know that earlier in this arc, Maria herself became a witch (sort of), but remember something; a part of Eva’s personality became a witch as well, and both women remained as separate entities. Perhaps Beatrice diverged from Maria enough that they themselves could be separate and still coexist together.

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming. As for everything else, eh, my theory still in the development stages.

  10. Bane says:

    You know, this being one of those naku koro ni series, I bet we will have to wait until episode 26 of the sequel before the whole Battler/sin thing gets cleared up. I don’t think it was even revealed in the source material yet.

  11. Marion says:

    My theory behind this “sin” of Battler’s, involving both concepts, is that Maria had a small crush on Battler (she’s young, and perhaps Battler was an influential part of her life without trying), and she was scorned when she heard that his older cousin wasn’t coming.

    Maria was 3 when Battler stopped coming. The beginning of EP 1 when she was introduced it was said she didn’t even remember who he was and Battler had a vague memory of her too, so it was like meeting each other for the first time.

  12. Pafiume says:

    I don’t understand what Beatrice is talking about, saying that Battler isn’t Kinzo’s grandson. She only made it clear that he’s not Asumu’s son (which I’d been thinking for a while, although I don’t know why), but not that Rudolf is not his father. And Rudolf is the one who’s actually blood related, isn’t he? I mean, if he isn’t Rudolf’s son, fine, but using his mother, who is not a blood Ushiromiya, as an excuse to get out of the game is dumb. It’s just a way to get the revelation across.

    Personally, I want to know about Kinzo’s wife. I only remember hearing about her once, in passing. I feel like Battler’s sin has to do with either her, Asumu, or Ange. I suppose it’s more likely with Asumu or Ange though, since Ange is six in 1986, and Asumu probably died around that time.

  13. Writer says:

    @Pafiume;

    What Beatrice just used was a technicality; though Battler’s father isn’t being disproved, the fact that his biological mother isn’t Asumu means that he’s an illegitimate child of Rodulf, and technically not a real part of the family. Well, I’m not sure if it entirely works that way, but it means that Battler’s position in the family should really be much lower, and by Kinzo’s standards would probably not even be a grandchild of his at all. That’s probably what she’s using – a backdoor of sorts, in case she becomes bored and wants to have an easy way out.

  14. PL says:

    Somebody on here once asked a rather good question…”Why isn’t Ange allowed to come to the island in 1986?” She’s the only grandchild who is not there. If she is six years old in 1986, then Battler’s sin takes place around the time she was born and/or concieved…hmmm

  15. 4saken says:

    @Pafiume:
    In the game, Beatrice said that Battler is not the real Ushiromiya Battler, but an imposter (there’s a fact the anime didn’t make clear is noone, except Rudolf and Kyrie, recognized Battler because they haven’t met him for six years, they just knew that he’s Battler because Rudolf said so) That’s why she requested him to say in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu” and “you were born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. Battler could say the first but couldn’t say the latter.

  16. @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&* says:

    Well it was said in red that “Ushiromiya Battler was born by Ushiromiya Asumu”. It just can’t be done when Ushiromiya Battler was replaced by “I”.

    So it should be assumed that “Battler” isn’t the same Ushiromiya Battler who was born from Asumu.

    Then I realized, the speaker here isn’t Battler. It’s Meta-Battler. The “real” Battler is still alive on the game board. And this “real” Battler was born from Asumu. While Meta-Battler exists outside of the game board and was “born” to compete with Beatrice at the end of EP1, he isn’t exactly born of Asumu.

  17. Marion says:

    @ @#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$@#$%^&*()&^%$#@!#$%^&*

    It doesn’t work that way. Meta-Battler is still Battler, whether on the gameboard or in the metaworld.

  18. Mana says:

    We shouldn’t forget that by this point, we know that there’s a difference between the red truth and the blue truth. Presumably the red truth pertains to truths that accept the existance of witches, and the blue truth pertains to those that deny them.

    Since Beato specifically requested for Battler to say it in red, whether or not Battler was born from Asumu may very well be dependant on whether or not magic is real.

  19. Lloyd says:

    I am so mad that I will be without internet for the next three weeks, and won’t find out anything until New years. That last revelation made my jaw drop.

  20. Deus says:

    I’m personally with Writer in the whole issue. To me, the “sin” is Battler simply going away six years ago. He made a promise to “someone”, then simply went away and forgot about it.

    “Beatrice” is the personification of this someone. She’s not really a witch, and we may even already know this person.

    Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever”, or “I’ll always be there”. Battler never does. Six years pass, Battler sees this person again, and completely forgets. This person, driven mad (presumably because something (very bad* happens in Battler’s absence, and which Battler was never there to prevent), starts killing people.

    Since the things piece-Battler observes with his own senses are credible, there was definitely someone real in that balcony. It was dark, however, which may have impaired his vision.

    The two most likely suspects for this “someone”: Shanon and Jessica.

    They fit, agewise. Battler even mentions she had a crush on Shannon at some point. Piece-Beatrice looks remarkably like Jessica, she has almost the same clothes, her room is just under the balcony, and the first thing Battler sees when going to the mansions is piece-Beatrice (not conclusively seeing Jessica’s corpse). We’ve seen the “lying phonecall” trick before in Higurashi.

  21. Aetheus says:

    The simplest theory is that Battler is an impostor – sometime in the past, the real Battler was either killed/died/disappeared, and this Battler replaced him. It does not, however, rule out that Battler is not an Ushiromiya. After all, Battler himself has memories of “running away from home”. It might be that Battler is infact Kinzo’s son by an unknown mother, who was sent to be raised by Rudolf & Asumu in secrecy as the other siblings would view him as another threat to their inheritance. When Rudolf’s child, the “real Battler” passed on, the current Battler takes over his identity, and “runs away from home” for a few years in order to preserve the secret. Of course, there are plenty of holes in this theory – Battler himself would have memories of his “brother” (which he apparently doesn’t), and Kinzo still refers to Battler as his “grandson”, even in private. And of course, there is no known character who could be “fake Battler”‘s real mother (it can’t be Beatrice herself, because she says that she never met Battler 6 years ago)

  22. Anon says:

    You guys are overthinking this.

    Beatrice just wants Battler to give her the pony he promised.

    P.S. I see a lot of talk of “a second season,” but that’s never going to happen with these DVD sales.

  23. Anon says:

    I reckon Battler is Rudolfs son, but his mother is some unknown woman, not Asumu or Kyrie, however he was raised as Asumu’s son, and the rest of the family assumed he was her son.

  24. thestation says:

    @Anon;
    But that would mean Rudolf was dating Kyrie, Asumu, and an unknown woman at once, wouldn’t that be really overdoing it:P?

    And also, about Battler’s sin, it can’t be anything else than what Deus and Writer said.
    It already was said that Battler wasn’t there 6 years ago on Rokkenjima.
    And Beatrice said that it had to do with Rokkenjima, so the only conclusion is that he didn’t prevent something he should have. What the hell it was is still a blank, though..
    ’cause why the fuck :P would Beato be upset when it’s proven in red that it doesn’t have anything to do with her?

    ”Picture say, Battler making an offhand promise six years ago: “I’ll protect you forever E or “I’ll always be there E”

    I can really see this happening , though I really don’t hope so. It sounds really cliché.

    Also, especially VN players;
    doesn’t anyone remind Umineko no Naku Koro ni of Phoenix Wright:P ?
    The Meta world seems like a courtroom, and when I saw some videos of the VN on YouTube,
    it reminded me so much of Phoenix Wright.
    Or am I the only one:P?

  25. Deus says:

    Pretty much. Battler even has his pose.

    There’s actually a good fanmade parody of it, but its not good to link to until the end of the 4th arc.

  26. Nyoron says:

    By any chance, does Battler not being born by Asumu have something to go with Kyrie being envious of Asumu for 18 years? Doesn’t that mean that Kyrie has something to do with it, considering Battler is 18 during Umineko.

  27. sheratan says:

    I think that the current Battler is not the Battler which visited the island six years before.

    My guess:

    *Asumu had a child called Battler

    * For some reason, Asumu’s real child got killed six years ago

    *Asumu replace the original Battler by another one she took at the orphan

    *This is the reason why the current “Battler” cannot remember what happened six years ago.

    And yes! My guess was greatly inspired by a Desperate Housewives’ episode; the season 4 finale

  28. ebisu says:

    Well Jessica and George killed clearly each other. They answered a kill the others in the end. And someone with a rifle killed a lot of the characters. The Blue Truth from Battler I don’t consider it’s been argued correctly by the moment so he still has a chance(Kinzo dies again by being burnt out so he might have been dead since the beginning, (Note that Battler don’t see nor talk directly to him, so I think this is a possibility)). And about the sin, if Battler can’t say he’s Asumu’s son, then he is the son of Kyrie or another character(maybe Bea from the previous arc). Or he just really thinks Kyrie’s his mother too strongly. Not enough info I think.

  29. vaniba12 says:

    Beatrice says that no one understands magic, so maybe his “sin” was that he denied magic six years ago just as he’s doing now?

  30. artemis19 says:

    well, its probably to late to through in my own thoughts. but near the end of episode 4 in the game, Bernkastel and Lambadelta appear before Battler and he states ‘I had a feeling I’d met her somewhere (too), but I couldn’t remember.’

    Isn’t that kind of strange? Maybe his sin has some connection to these two witches that he has never had a connection with until that moment? After all, they seem to be the real puppetmasters of this game.

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CHANGE USERNAME
Lenlo
Oh your right, it was Deen. I got them mixed up. JC staff has Food Wars. Thats what I get for peeking at a list of anime during work.
Anonymous1422679
That being said, no reason why you can't watch the OVAs before the TV series as well.
Anonymous1422679
@SuperMario Not at all, the Maho Yome OVAs are technically anime original (made with plot and design contributions by the original author though). The majority of the 3 episodes are a prologue but it probably makes more sense to have read/watched a bit of the original series to have context of the world setting and present day characters who also appeared.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Rakugo was deen I thought? Not JC staff?
Lenlo
@Aidan, yeah its a dark day. Animation will go down because the new director cant call in a bunch of freelance friends and im not to excited about the directing.

Still, they made quality pieces like Rakugo. I can hope.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I'm at least thankful to be getting a non 12s/pg action film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember the church scene in the first one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still wish the action scenes didn't have that modern editting though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I took too long to get Colin Firth back into the story too.
Though the idea of Colin Firth of all actors being in a film like this is amusing in itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also saw the new kingsman recently, when it focuses on the action its almost up there with the first film, I liked Julianne Moore's villain better than Sam Jacksons and wanted her to have more screentime, the Elton John running joke kind of grew on me. It was overall funny without being hilarious. but theres a whole chunk in the middle of the film I'd have cut
AidanAK47
Seen Kingsman 2. I think the critics are being too harsh with this one as the movies fine. Difinitely not as good as the first flim and far too long a running time but it has its fun points.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Oh you must be jokin...oh god it's real. No Shingo Natsume either. Yep looks like the second season is going to be a major visual downgrade.
Lenlo
Hmm, so One Punch Man is getting a 2nd Season, but its being made by JC Staff instead of Madhouse.
SuperMario
A question: Do we need to watch Mahoutsukai no Yome OVAs before watching its first episode?
SuperMario
@Amagi: they better have a second season. The way it ends now I don't even have any motivation to write a full review. I'm not really optimistic over it having a second cour because if the producers were confident about its chance, they would've greenlit it already.
Amagi
@SuperMario: Seems like the official radio confirmed PriPri might get a second season if the BD and/or game sales are good enough. - BD sales seem to be around 7k at the moment, but it looks like many only ordered them now, after the last episode, so it might be more.
KTravlos
@Aidan. Oh I did. Thank you for reminding me. I will write the review.
AidanAK47
@Travlos, Just in case you missed it, there is a reply to you earlier in the chatbox.
KTravlos
Kakeguiri also ended. In the end the anime original ending was not really an ending, but just a fan pleasing excursion. The integrity of the manga story remains. It was a good adaption, and I liked it as it brought to life the parts of the manga that make it interesting to me. Also a great Opening and Ending. Good show.
KTravlos
And to sum it up. I think this was a great series. All its episodes were good.
KTravlos
I actually am ok with the PP ending. The 12 episode series is self contained. Sure there are many future potential stories to pursue, but I felt there was enough closure to make the series a good series. This is because the next step of the narrative is really so long term as being more LOGH material than PP (the story of the ascension of Princesss to the throne, and then the story of her reforms)
Lenlo
Alright, I found the read more tag. Now my tendency to write more than I should will be contained.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Got to play catch-up but I am guessing it was very much a non ending?
SuperMario
Gosh, is that how Princess Principal end?
SuperMario
@KAiser: I really have a mixed feeling watching Assayas's films. I always find his works toe touch into pretentious area. Still have much more films from him I want to watch though so that opinion might change
SuperMario
@Kaiser: As Tears go By surprised me a little considering how straightforward it is. It's Wong's most by the book HK romance but it was one of his most commercial success. After this, the studio allowed him to do things he like and that was when he gone banana with his styles
SuperMario
not a fan. Can't even tell the difference between turtle and tortoise
Anonymous1420257
i like turtles
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I hadn't expected some of the dry/dark humour in sils Maria, I liked the themes/aging angst and its comments on hollywood in parts even if it needed to go a bit deeper. Stewart is a revelation in it. That X-men parody scene was fucking funny lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I actually kind of liked As tears go by. Mostly because of my experiences with hong-kong action flicks, much as I like John Woos films, the melodrama he tries to sell between the action never worked for me and left me just waiting around for the action to come round again. Wong was able to put genuine emotion into the hong-kong action film with this one.
Amagi
@Aidan: Somehow. The problem is rather Haruki anyway and it's canonically part of her character. Kei becomes more likeable IMO and the events get much more complicated and/or serious plus there are a bunch of characters getting added to the protag team which makes the whole thing more dynamic. The best comes when some other character joins around the middle though.
Anonymous1416115
Personally, I can digest the emotionless dialogue in the first place since I watch the series with the mindset that the main characters are innately "broken" in some ways.
Anonymous1416115
@Aidan Hmm...one might consider the emotion level increases in main characters' dialogues for Sakurada Reset as baby steps depending on how dramatic one expects a character to act in other animes. (The emotions increase do exist though) There are certainly emotional scenes and characters do develop in ways where one can't just say they're 100% robots.
AidanAK47
@Travlos, If you so wish then you can write a review for Bahamut virgin soul. Just let me know if you are up for it. If so I recommend writing it up on google docs, then when you have it done I can give your account contributer status and you can paste it into a post for us to look over and publish on the site. For screenshots our standard size is H240 X W138.
AidanAK47
Did they ever fix that emotionless dialgoue issue they had going on?
Anonymous1415748
You are not alone. The second half of Sakurada Reset made me so glad that I stuck with the series.
Amagi
Oh and I totally forogt Reset ended now too. Not sure if I am the only fan of that but the whole second half was one of the better things I've seen this year.
Amagi
Okay now thinking three others came into my mind, but that's still not much. A lot of series started interesting and turned out mediocre or cheap after a while.
Amagi
Considering that I love Made in Abyss, PrinPrin, Fate/Apo (so far) and 18if too guess this season was better than I've expected. 2016 was kind of a let down imo, animewise. Off the top of my head I only remember Rakugo, Fune wo Amu and Bokudake I think.
Amagi
I didn't expect to like Virgin Soul as much as I do. Especially the last ~5 episodes got me. The weird thing is that I was disappointed by S1 actually.
SuperMario
@Travlos: I don't mind if you do a guess review on Virgin Soul, but let's me check with other admins first.

On Virgin Soul, I'm not sure if I like the bew development. It suddenly does a 180 degree turn on King Charriot, which I don't feel rewarding.
KTravlos
Kakegurui will have an anime original ending. It might be better than the ongoing manga. We shall see. An enjoyable foray.

Virgin Soul is going for a nice explosive ending. If no one writes a review, I would be willing to write one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*kind of
Kaiser-Eoghan
While its very much in the shadow of the first and the protaganist started out kind annoying, I kind of got caught up in the spectacle and sentimentality of gunbuster 2.
KTravlos
Urasawa is preparing a new manga
KTravlos
yes the episode where Julian watched the documentary was fun. The Caligula like character comes from one of the lesser episodes of the series, when Kircheis beats up some rebelling third rate noble in the Empire.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Goddammit, fail, it just changed the colour of the login name...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I declare in the red truth that the next anime I shall watch is Diebuster.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From what little I saw, I remember a Caligula like character in one episode.
Anonymous1409409
I remember there's an episode where Julian just goes on Space Netflix and just watches a documentary. I actually liked that lol
KTravlos
yup, a LOGH that run like the Altair anime would be bad. It needs to show the sweep of history
AidanAK47
@Anon, I actually liked that aspect. It made the history of the world feel real.
Anonymous1409027
It's compressible, as there are many episodes of buildup, but that's where so many of the interesting details and depth of planning become evident. Some of those episodes read like a history textbook though, so we'll see how the new adaptation handles them,
Anonymous1409027
*pleasantly
KTravlos
Tytania was ok.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the Amakusa Shiro reference in the fate review, I've seen a film about him from the 50s , theres also an old josei manga where the protagonist ends up becoming essentially regarded as him.
KTravlos
Hi Kaiser. Supposedly this is a re-imagining of the original story. Thus independent of the OVAs (old serieis). What exactly re-imagining means is something I and you do not know. We shall see. But it does mean that you do not need to watch the old series to enjoy this one. The OVA was definetly more expansive than the novels. So my guess is they will stick to the novels.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There's another anime, called Tytania based on his novels but I haven't seen that series.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As in condensable in the way nothing much is lost? I assume there are fillers in the original?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm indifferent to the aesthetics of the new version. What I'm hoping for is that it will be accessible to newcomers and that I'll be able to jump on to the old series where the new one leaves off. I've seen very little of the original and it was a long time ago, is there any way the story is condensable?
KTravlos
The fact that they stayed away from the disgusting new manga is great. I am not too keen on the CGI ships, but they also did not rankle. It looks like it will honor the spirit of the old series, and I cannot ask for more. I am a massive LOGH fan. And the new video out gives me hope of revisiting one of the greatest sci-fi/historical settings out there. I am happy.
AidanAK47
I hope they are using the old anime as a base and not the new Manga adaption. As that Manga adaption is seriously lacking.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I like that they blinged up the space battles which is good because those things could get tiresome. But I really hate the design of Yang Wenli. They made him look so much younger and bishi. I don't think i could take this guy seriously if he started one of Wenli's signature hypothesis.
Anonymous1408919
Thoughts on that new LOGH PV? My expectations were low, so I'm presently surprised. Obviously they made everybody pretty boys, and Mamoro Miyano is voicing Reinhard I believe. But art and animation actually looks pretty decent overall. It's a PV, and LOGH's best quality is it's story and characters, so we'll have to see if they remain faithful or not. But it's nice to see it get a visual overhaul.
AidanAK47
By the way this site has the first chapters but check the other versions to find them.
http://mangapark.me/manga/tsurezure-children-wakabayashi-toshiya
AidanAK47
@Mario, Indeed. It's also a pity that over half the couples in the manga were not featured. We only got a small taste of Patricia.
SuperMario
Or maybe I'll try to read the manga. The last time I checked it online, the site doesn't have its first few chapters
SuperMario
@Aidan: man, Tsurezure Children sure is sweet. Really sad to see it ends
AidanAK47
So that's the end of Tsurezure Children.
....I'm gonna need a second season. Now.
....NOW GODDAMNIT! NOW!
KTravlos
As I said I understand the criticisms to RE:Creator, but ultimately I enjoyed most of the show. It could had been better, and it is a missed chance. But I have seen worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I gave up halfway through, there weren't even enough action scenes and those that were didn't justify waiting around for.
AidanAK47
Could have at least delivered on the action but that was rendered pointless due to the majority of the cast turning good and Altair being a complete cheat character.
AidanAK47
It would have been really fun to see characters discuss their stories with their creators or indulge in what our world has to offer but they really glossed over that part.
AidanAK47
It really should have gone deeper into the whole meta aspect introducing anime characters to the real world. Like they did with Mamika's powers being ridiculously destructive when outside a kid friendly setting.
AidanAK47
@Puran, I at least like the message of the final episode. But as for the show itself it was just missed potential on a lot of levels. I wanted Anime Genre battle royale and instead got a secondhand Shirobako with a crap shounen anime attached.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have been forgiving of Anno as I've gotten older.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also just re-watched gunbuster, I'd previously dismissed the ova after a few episodes when I was a teenager, I'd found it too slow, didn't have that issue with the 90 minute version I just finished. I've never see the sequels.
Lenlo
Ill have to finish Creators... at some point
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've been dipping back into the Lupin franchise, Gold of babylon was particularly screwball, kind of ridiculous comedy caper/adventure thing you just have to run with....turns out it was directed by a live action filmaker I especially like who made bizzare noir films in the 60s.
Puran
So that explains why Meteora had so much air time in Re:Creators. It's her story....

I hated the ending and I disliked the anime overall.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was a genuine surprise to see that Assayas decided to make a film framed around hentai =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I loved how incoherent demonlover was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The criticisms I'll give wind river, is a slight inconsistent performance from Renner and that very awkwardly inserted flashback scene.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: on Wind River, I agree it's a well-executed case of the week drama, although there are some plot pregressions that I don't get (how did they find out about the man's corspe again?). About Demonlover, man, the film gives me a chill down my spine. Heartless. And a bit misogynist.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: as much as I loved Wong (yeah I too prefer him over Malick), sometimes I do think Western cinema give him too much praise that sadly overshadow other Asian directors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wong is important to me as a hong-kong filmaker, he offers something entirely different from the whole Woo/Lam Hong komg movies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On a more positive note Maggie Cheung did mention that she felt her early work with Wong was when she first truly became a proper actress.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I had no idea he had such a sad background.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*investigation drama
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that film also marked/ signified a rather sad period of Hongkong showbiz. Leslie Cheung badically lived the live of the protagonist and commited suicide in 1997. His girlfriend on screen, during the filming, was kidnaped, raped and taken topless picture. The damnest thing is that everyone knowed the culprit but did nothing, and in the press it was just deemed as "kipnapped and assaulted"
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wind river was a big surprise for me, just goes to show that with the right execution an ordinary police drama movie can be elevated higher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thats the interesting thing, tracking a directors career.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just binge watched the new dominion tank police ovas , admittedly these are kind of reptitive and extremely silly but its hard to hate on something so shamelessly fun that made me feel like a child again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: you said it there. DoBW is rather raw and unpolished but that's one of the reason why I am drawn to it more compare to his other works.
AidanAK47
In all honesty, it would be nice to finally see a continuation after fusion as all games after that have just been adding chapters in-between.
Vonter
Finally I wonder, if Metroid Prime 4 will definitely branch out of the main Metroid's continuity. It's curious how an interquel subseries is still going to add things in between the first and the second entries in the main franchise.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - I think is nice we can see both takes. Especially since neither one despite a few qualms are still very solid entries for this franchise. I just hope Metroid moves forward, as IMO this is the only game that really needed a facelift do to the heavy limitations of the gameboy. And I hope the secret gallery at the end is teasing how the producer plans to move the plot forward.
AidanAK47
I thought it might be like that but it's good to know they are at least on a close level. I didn't really want Samus Returns to replace AM2R as the "Definitive" version of Metroid 2. Mostly because a lot of love was put into AM2R andit came at a point when it felt Nintendo didn't give a crap about Metroid.
Vonter
Like Zero Mission there's something added to Samus Returns but I'll just leave it at that.
Vonter
I think both have strong points. Samus Returns have better boss battles, gameplay mechanics and more intense action pieces. AM2R IMO has more atmosphere, takes advantage of elements Nintendo don't even try like the Federation subplot, and the ending portion narratively has more heart in AM2R, while in Samus Returns it feels mostly like "the final level".
Vonter
I also did got lost a couple of times in Samus Returns and aside from the big water section in AM2R, the latter is more linear game.
Vonter
I think the controls in Samus Returns bring more to the table though. The 360 aiming makes for better ways to shoot enemies and some of the bosses take advantage of that. If it weren't for the 3DS giving hand cramps because you're holding L and R at several points it'll be completely the most ideal way to play.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - AM2R is very good, I think it has the advantage that because it uses sprites IMO backgrounds and enemies are more vibrant and easier to appreciate. The Federation soldiers are better executed in AM2R and that secret section with the ship is very eery.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, How does it stack up to AM2R? I bought it and am still waiting on it to be delivered but I have the feeling that AM2R would be the better game when comparing.
Vonter
I took me 12 hours to 100% and I've heard the best ending is beating it in less than 4 hours. I think unlike Zero Mission item percentage don't matter, it's mainly to unlock an art gallery.
Vonter
My main criticism is this being a 3DS game. Small enemies can be hard to see or appreciate. And I think the 3DS wasn't made for heavy action packed games like this or Smash Bros. I got the rubber from the circle pad come off in two occasions. Also unless there was something big in the background, several areas felt lacking in detail. Still Samus and the bosses look good.
Vonter
In terms of difficulty, the game has the enemies packing more damage than in other 2D Metroids. Is difficult in the sense than you can't tank damage as in other iterations, you have to be aware of enemy behavior and bosses mainly get easier do to familiarizing with their patterns, since I did die a lot each time I faced a new boss. And got used to kill them faster as I went along.
Vonter
Ok, so I beat Samus Returns. It's quite good. Unlike Fusion that had dialogue at midst the gameplay. Samus Returns only has a prologue of exposition and any cutscenes mainly accentuate the reactions of Samus confronting a new enemy. The level design is dense, despite having isolated areas like in Fusion and the original Samus Returns, each area is very mazelike.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: =< Awww I kind of like demonlover actually despite all its flaws, it had great sound design and had this cold, clinical, un-nerving mood to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Days of being wild does feel a bit un-realized/un-polished/rough compared to his other work definitely but its probably the rawest I've seen from him and that has its appeal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Haven't seen farewell my concubine come to think of it. Regarding the scifi element I felt I embraced it more further into the film when it started to intermingle more.
While I am more forgiving toward Malick's recent films than most, that decline in quality means I have to pick Wong.
KTravlos
by the way in RE:Creators we probably will be getting a future series focusing on the hunt for Magane :p Meteora probably playing the role of detective. I also bet her novel will be wordy and heavy in exposition :p
KTravlos
i.e his end game might had been a cross-species revolution against him anyway. We will see
KTravlos
In Bahamut Chris proves to not be totally evil, but he is totally crazy. That said I am seeing one of my hunches getting supported, the hunch was that his cruelty towards daemons was with the purpose of bringing them down enough that they would be willing to work with humans as euals (As they are in Jean's army) and thus via that create a more unified world. I
KTravlos
RE: Creators has come to its end. I know the problems everyone has with it, and while it failed to raise to the level of exceptional show, I loved it. As I said, it had been years since a show kept me so excited episode after episode. They blew it at some point, but ultimately for me this is an en-joyful show, and one I would happily binge watch in the future again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: question for you though, between these two directors, which one do you prefer: Wong Kar-Wai or Terrance Malick?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: if you enjoyed both 2046 and In the Mood for Love, by all mean check out Days of Being Wild. The trio forms a loose trilogy and Days of Being Wild was the first film that Wong began his unique unconventional style. It's one of my personal favorite of Wong and it's a chance for you to watch the late Leslie Cheung acted (you might watch him already in Farewell My Concubine)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: 2046 is indeed a passionate film, and one of his best looking film. He tried something different in 2046 too, experimented with scifi (one of the best part in the film for me)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's stritcly Wong Kar Wai's romance we're talking about, since I don't find the rest of Chinese take on romance that interesting. Romance or melodrama is one of his main theme throughout his career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was slightly overly long however.
I've also seen chungking express, in the mood for love and fallen angels. I think this Chinese take on romance is really clicking with me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also thought it was a very passionette film and I love how Kar-wong-wai uses the music in it. I also think its one of his best looking films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I had a look at that Chinese film 2046, very effectively melancholic take on fleeting relationships while also successfully being quite sensual while staying classy and without ever showing too much. Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung are two beautiful people =P
SuperMario
for those who still want to catch up with 18if, episode 11 has a huge recap, while wrapping up the show with a new overarching plot. Hopefully they don't pull another Matrix here
SuperWooper
It's shounen-y for sure. The competitions have been my least favorite parts of the show so far. If you're still watching, you might appreciate it more once the Tenpei Cup is over.
Anonymous1399692
Damn Ballroom looks so good. But I really can't enjoy it despite that I want to. It has too many of these typical shounen moments and plot points I can't stand.
Anonymous1399684
Omae wa mou shindeiru
Lenlo
Mononoke is actually what made me find Ayakashi. Also a good show.
SuperMario
Regarding Ayakashi, I only watched the Mononoke segment
SuperMario
"It was a long, long trip, and we're coming finally to the end of the journey. Thank you, Manoyama and Chupacabra. And thank you, 5 EURO" - Sandal-san.
Lenlo
Ayakashi was great for me Kaiser. I enjoyed my time with it
Vonter212
@AidanAK47 - The hard aspect has been commented in several reviews with bosses being able to easily kill you. (Although in my experience it might be just getting a pattern). In terms of length most 2D games can be beaten under 3 hours. This one seems to clock at at least 6 to 15 if you want to collect everything. Then again, we'll see in subsequent playthroughs.
AidanAK47
`@Vonter. It's out now but I don't remember seeing anyone claim it's the longest hardest entry 2D wise.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Going to watch new dominion tank police next and read violence action and Oddman 11.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It took me years to get round to it, but I finally watched Ayakashi and as expected like most anthologies, again its mixed, the first is a solid ghost story that improves after a weak start, but that third one with the cat spirit was great, really liked how experimental that looked.
Vonter
Soo a new Metroid comes out this week. It is said, it's the longest, hardest entry in regards to the 2D iterations. Still not as great as Super, and depending on your fanaticism it might or not be as good as Zero Mission.
SuperMario
But they didn't pull that scene off too well. It's just... unmemorable. In fact the whole show is very unremarkable. Now only 1 episode left I might as well finish it but I won't give it a full review
SuperMario
Koi to Uso has been disappointing so far. Episode 10 featured the sequence that i was looking forward the most in the manga: the former classmate tells the one sided crush of the main girl from her POV. For a romance that contrived and manipulated like this one, hearing this from the third person's perspective prove to be more powerful
Vonter
@HelghastKillzone - Good luck with that. I almost had my car's engine damaged since it has been raining heavily where I live. Had to ask for help the next day to pull it out of mud. Still not as bad as the other three cars that did get stuck in the water.
HelghastKillzone
Dealing with work and the total loss of my car really sucks at the moment so I'm quite tied up for this week.
KTravlos
I do agree to a point, but to be frank all the episodes of Princess Principal to date have been so solid I have a hard time deciding. Episode 5 though was still the best from a holistic point (action, direction, music etc) was the one introducing Chise
SuperMario
Agree. Dorothy has the biggest heart out of all the spy girls. Also "help" that her episodes are all melodramatic.
Amagi
This episode of PrinPrin showed again that Dorothy is the best character by far. Not just herself but her episodes as well are better written than the rest if you ask me.
KTravlos
It just hit me. The characters in Princess Principal may be very well working for IngSoc :p
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, in the seven chapters it's only really two of them that contain dark shocking content. Chapter three being the biggest one in that regard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read a comment where someone said subahibi shocked them more than saya no uta. While I haven't played it yet, I have seen some of a letsplay...it lleft me thinking....how many hours until this actually gets good/truly unhinged .
AidanAK47
After Reading SubaHibi, Made in Abyss's dark turn didn't shock me too much. Maybe I just got desensitised. I will have a review of SubaHibi hopefully up in a week though to clarify my feelings on it after just finishing it, It was interesting but disappointing.
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