Posted by psgels on 24 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Okay, so apparently this episode was terrible for the visual novel readers. I however am just watching this anime, so I don’t care. This episode was pretty good, and the only thing I’m raging about is that bloody cliff-hanger, especially considering that that second season might not even come!

However, I do agree that Umineko was really, really rushed. How could this have happened, really? People keep saying “DEEN! DEEN! DEEN!”, but they’ve made plenty of great series and adaptations in the past, so that can’t be the only thing. In the end, my eye still falls back to Chiaki Kon, the director. I don’t like her. While she adapted the Higurashi novels really well, with nice balance and a strong direction, she was able to do so because she really didn’t have anything else to do at that time. It was her debut, so she really had to prove that she could direct something right.

But take a look what she’s up to from the past spring: 20 episodes of Hanasakeru Seishounen, 26 episodes of Umineko no Naku Koro ni, and when this is over she’s going to do Nodame Cantabile’s finale. That’s more than 52 episodes within one year! She really took way too much on her plate, and like Shinbo I’d wish that she’d just concentrate on one single series and make that one right, instead of trying to do everything at the same time. Now all of those shows are just going to be really rushed, and they’ll miss the strong direction that Higurashi had. Most directors manage to produce one series every two years, or perhaps even one series a year. Counting the upcoming winter-season, Chiaki Kon has directed six series in two years. Somebody stop her and hand those series over to some other directors. I mean, Studio Deen has enough other talents walking around.

At this point, I have a really hard time deciding how to judge this series. Rushed or not, Umineko has one hell of a backstory. It was always fun to formulate theories, trying to figure out what’s going on. This is why I’m not going to recommend this series to people who already played the visual novel. Not because it’s badly executed, but by far the best thing about Umineko is its mystery. When you already know what’s going to happen, then what’s left? What’s the fun in reading a detective novel if you already know exactly how everything is going to happen?

As for the people who haven’t played the game, it’s a bit trickier, though. It’s a great watch, but I sure as hell ain’t going to recommend this if a second season isn’t being produced. It’s like reading a detective novel, only to discover that someone ripped off the entire second half. This is probably the thing I like the least about anime: it’s “let’s just animate the first part so that we can only animate the conclusion when the sales are good”-mentality. Imagine if Monster or Legend of Galactic Heroes were animated this way.

EDIT: ah, forgot to talk about the episode. It’s interesting how Beatrice basically let Battler bombard her with theories that she could in fact just have blown all away, as if she wanted to lose. At first I thought that she was simply acting again, but for some reason I don’t think she really did that here. Kinzou’s death actually being confirmed was a major revelation, of course. The question really is: who the hell is this guy? If he is one of the seventeen people alive, the servants must be playing a really strange game.

At this point, it’s pretty clear that at least one of them is in on the game: there are only a few family members who knew about Kinzou’s death, while they were in on it all along since they lived inside his house, and otherwise the closed room murder in the third arc would be pretty impossible, but actually plausible: they knew that Kinzou was already dead, and made it seem that he was killed along with the other six to cover him up.

I also wonder, at the end we see Lambdadelta and Bernkastel talk about how Beatrice must never win. Again, big clue: the two are working together and somehow have interest in keeping the game going on forever. And how is Bernkastel’s magic going to play in, I wonder? I mean, her magic is to make anything happen as long as the possibility isn’t zero. If Beatrice is going to be able to win of her she’s going to have to be able to create such a lock-down that there’s no possibility for escape.

There. Happy now? ;)
Rating: * (Good)

And remember: even though the series is finished now, I still reserve the right to delete any comment that spoils beyond this point in the novel

23 Responses

  1. thestation says:

    You haven’t said a word about the episode itself… Only that it was ‘good.’
    For the most part your entry was just ranting xd.

  2. Acylia says:

    Like thestation said, please tell us more what u thought of the episode itself. I was looking forward to reading your thoughts on the different ‘happenings’. x) Save this for the final review of the series. :)

  3. Westlo says:

    Umineko was an indefinitely better adaption of the VNs than Higurashi ever was and Higurashi was a far better anime.

    You say this is rushed yet this only adapted 4 VNs while Higurashi adapted 6 VNs in their first series.

    Higurashi’s setting obviously allowed cuts to flow better unlike Umineko, and Umineko adaption dropped the ball..

    How many anime only readers are going to be coming up with theories? How many are going to be working out if Beatrice is Shannon or Jessica or another character entirely? While the VN readers are swamped with Beatrice and Battler shippers (just see how many complaints about no hug after the Who am I riddle for instance lol) their relationship getting undercut in the anime won’t have that same impact on those viewers.

    You can say so what but their relationship might be the main theme of Umineko in the end. Kinda of a stupid thing to cut down on than isn’t it?

  4. Acylia says:

    @ Westlo

    Yeah, I KNOW! Where did that hug go!? xD

  5. Geekodot says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juEkoLXXoxo = much better version of the final riddle.

  6. Acylia says:

    @ Geekodot
    The final riddle wasn’t really… THAT bad. I kinda liked it. Except for the hug. :

  7. psgels psgels says:

    Geekodot: it might be because I only watched the anime and all… but am I the only one who found that youtube clip cheesy?

    Westlo: it’s like you said:while Higurashi had its charms being rushed like that, it worked a bit less for Umineko, which is why I think that it could have used a lot more episodes.

    Also, while I of course have no idea what’s going to happen in the rest of the story, I liked the enidng even thogh there wasn’t a hug. Because of the way the ended with the riddle, I’m right now very excited for the second season (if it’s ever going to come, of course). While the episode itself wasn’t of the epic proportions you described, the ending was a far better closure than with Higurashi’s first season.

  8. Acylia says:

    @ psgels
    Amen to that. :P

    Well, at least I loved the voice actors in Umineko. Most of them, at least. XD

  9. Geekodot says:

    @psgels
    Well, I can understand it being cheesy to anime only viewers, because most of the inner monologue and character relationships between Battler and Beato was cut from the last battle in the anime. Even if the anime did end with this exact scene, with all they cut in the last battle and episode 4 in general, it probably wouldn’t work like it did in the VN.

  10. Acylia says:

    *Reading your post again after edit*
    Bernkastel and Lamda don’t seem very nice, do they? -.- I feel kinda sorry for Beato if that’s the case. She really seems like she wants to die in this episode. I really like her character, though. There’s a lot more to her than we think. :) … I think. *lol*

    [No wonder I’m cosplaying her for the next con in my country ^-^]

  11. fox demon soavi says:

    where in the visual novels does this leave off? 4, 5 or 6?

  12. Marion says:

    @fox demon soavi: It ends at EP 4. EP 5 starts the answer arcs.

  13. Anon says:

    Hate to break it to you, bro, but Amatsuki was an awful adaptation. Did you know that Toki was trapped inside of a virtual reality the whole time, run by a company called the Sensai Corporation? I’ll bet you didn’t, because DEEN literally cut half the plot.

    DEEN has always made really rushed and half-baked adaptations. It just really shined with Umineko because instead of being able to cut in huge chunks, they had to whittle away at individual scenes until nothing was left.

  14. Deus says:

    “I also wonder, at the end we see Lambdadelta and Bernkastel talk about how Beatrice must never win. Again, big clue: the two are working together and somehow have interest in keeping the game going on forever.”

    Yes, finally, no more need for spoilers. :D

    When you think about it, it actually makes sense. Bernkastel’s goal is to win the game against Beatrice, and Lambda’s goal is to keep Bern occupied forever (and to do that, she must make sure that *the game goes on forever*. If any party wins, the game ends, so she will work so that both sides will never win). At no point in this equation can Beatrice ever get the upper hand. She will either be defeated by Bern, or Lambda will enforce a stalemate til eternity. In the end, two VERY powerful (way more powerful than Beatrice, in fact) witches have basically ordained Beatrice’s doom.

    Somebody up top said that the two didn’t seem very nice here. In the VN scene, they were… scarier. Full on evil faces and cackling scarier. There’s definitely something more to it than Beatrice = Bad, Bernkastel = Good, and if Beatrice is defeated everything in Umineko will become right as rain.

    If you’re up to reading a supplemental short story by the creator containing the motivations and schemes of the witches in Arc 4 (to be read after this arc):

    The Witches Tanabata: http://community.livejournal.com/witchhunters/6549.html

    Seriously, read it.

  15. Writer says:

    *Sigh* Guys, you’re forgetting something very important here about this adaption, and Higurashi too. Something that you’re brushing off as simply being bad.

    Ahem – you’re trying to compress many hours worth of information into a 26 episode series, each episode not even accounting up to half an hour. It would have helped if each episode could have been twice the length, or that of a typical anime movie, but they weren’t. Few studios would have had the budget and voice actors at their disposal to make it work, and then there’s the broadcasting as well to pay for and smooth over.

    In short, yes, the series was rushed, but HOW could it be otherwise?! It’s like you’re trying to turn the entire cast, covering a wall, into an average sized picture without making it look too abstract or simply heads pasted one beside the other. In short, you need to be one hell of a workhorse and perfectionist to make it so, and though Deen wasn’t that equine, can you really blame them?

    And now for the episode; the fact that there’s only 17 people on the island from the start means that Battler has to suspect one of his relatives, or the workers. Personally, I’m going with either Kumasawa, Gohda, or Genji. Yes, it invokes the old “the butler did it”, but think about it; these three are the least likely to inherit anything from Kinzo, and though that doesn’t make for motive, it does mean that they have a reason (hatred festers, as they say) and many, many opportunities.

    Now, I know this card was played by Higurashi, but what if there’s some kind of swamp gas or something on Rokenjima? Something that assists in the delusions taking place in the mansion? Couldn’t it help with Kinzo’s infamous delusional behavior, if he isn’t (or at least just) suffering from dementia? Or even more reliable, what about a gas leak? How do we know what kind of heating they use if they’re still in the late eighties?

  16. Marion says:

    @Writer: I think that’s a lame solution. To just rehash the same solution from Higurashi is simply lame and I don’t think Ryukishi would resort to such a cop out solution.

    As for Kinzo he was acting crazy because he wanted to see Beatrice again after so many years, along with his family constantly hounding him for money like vultures.

  17. Writer says:

    @ Marion: Your comment has been duely noted. I know that it’s an unlikely happening, but I’m not saying that it’s Hinamizawa syndrome all over again; just oxygen deprivation to the brain, or maybe poisoning a gas leak, making them less likely to be rational and more likely to murder. Again, we have no way of knowing how the building is heated, whether it uses electric heaters, gas, or even a wood stove – just that there’s a boiler room, which has a wood opening.

    And not to be snarky, but I don’t see you putting anything more reasonable up Marion. I know that Kinzo’s wrought with his desire to see Beatrice, it’s the reason behind the bracketed addition, so you don’t need to spell it out to me. Besides, I didn’t say that it was a or the solution, I said it was a theory, something to assist the other possibilities. Don’t go attacking when I haven’t said that it’s definite.


    And now, to something that is actually relevant/helpful, could Beatrice be a memory? I remember that Beatrice was considered by Battler to be a legend of the island, and who knows? Maybe he thought someone like Kumasawa was Beatrice back then before he realized who she was. Therefore, this is my theory; Beatrice is a memory of magic/witches in Battler’s past, proven false, made when he left the household to live with his grandparents. She is the image of a person who Battler made up in his head, destroyed when he realized that it was a normal person and not a witch. The “sin” that was mentioned before was Battler attacking said person before he realized his mistake, and the remembrance of this event is what would “kill” him while he’s alone on Rokenjima.

    Tell me how that conflicts with anything in the story, people. And before anyone goes with “but Battler should remember such an event”, picture it, if you will, if you attacked a person seriously when you thought it was a witch, to the point that the other person looks like they’ve died, at the young age of twelve. You don’t remember such an event, you bury it in your head, traumatizing you into keeping from doing such a thing ever again. “She wasn’t a witch, because witches don’t exist”, becomes the force behind, “Witches and magic don’t exist”, even when you’re fighting against one to prove that very point. Of course, this isn’t likely to be right, but it’s an idea all the same, and it satisfies me.

  18. thestation says:

    I think I just found something really interesting. So, in this episode it was established that Kinzo really was dead all the time. Now watch episode 2, when Rosa is asking everyone who lent the umbrella to Maria.
    Dr. Nanjo says: ‘It wasn’t me either. After all, I was playing chess with Kinzo until a few minutes ago.’
    Doesn’t this make Nanjo look really, really suspicious ^^ ?
    And it wasn’t anything shown by the witch, it was the first game.
    And I think I said it somewhere before on this blog, but I’ll say it again , in episode 12, at the part where Maria receives the letter + umbrella , the letter was already sealed with the ring , before Beatrice even received the ring. Then I thought, it must have been written by Kinzo, maybe even before his dead. At least I don’t think it really was written by Beatrice, she didn’t have the ring in time.

  19. 4saken says:

    Nanjo isn’t the only one.
    Genji, Kanon, Shanon, Natsuhi and Rosa also claimed to meet Kinzo too.

  20. monkzor says:

    Battler did it. No spoiler, just lols

  21. cillia says:

    wow. this episode… just wow. i did one of those maria laughs at the end of the episode.

    the cliffhanger was so absolutely… ugh T_T HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WAIT THAT LONG FOR THE EXPLINATIONS????

  22. Uminekofan says:

    For everybody who ever reads this, know this. EP7 of the VN presents you with all the clues needed to solve the mysteries. The epitaph, gold, Kinzo, everything like that is answered. The twilights however aren’t. And EP8 won’t address that. All the killings that happened here will forever have no official explanation. It’s up to you to understand it. But EP7 bombards you with such huge clues that reasoning out this is completely possible.

    It’s just that I haven’t done it yet (In my defence, I’ve figured out EP1 and the first twilight of EP2.)

    This anime adaptation was good, I only got in the VNs after watching it. It has some serious, serious mistakes. In the first game, first twilight, the very first murder, the anime shows you Shannon’s face. They shouldn’t have shown you that. Out of all the twilights that happened, this one is the only one that EP7 tells you in the face that it happened like this: Shannon played dead. She didn’t die in the first twilight.

    ANOTHER BIG SPOILER OF EP7

    There are bombs in the island. In the first and second game, everyone dies. A part of the island blows up when the clock ticks midnight of the second night. The explosion of the bombs never reach the hidden mansion. Another thing, all this anime showed you Beatrice games. There’s a definite truth, non-magical explanation of what TRULY happened in the island in EP7. Like Ange’s future shows us, Eva is the sole survivor because she activated the bombs and then run to the hidden mansion, then played dumb about not knowing anything.

    That’s all I’ll leave for you all. Have fun, and read the VNs (especially 5-7, or 7 if you want the one with most answers) if you liked the anime. Byee.

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Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
Anonymous670441
Gente - Ristorante no Hitobito
Kaiser Eoghan
If anything its the hate I have for certain characters that makes it more effective.
Kaiser Eoghan
The obsessional level of attachment is just uncomfortable to me, I don't want to get THAT attached to a non-real character.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its literally just a case of "Okay lets look at this picture of this character, she looks interesting, no feelings or expression from me, apply this fetish, fap, get release, go home. "
Kaiser Eoghan
Or drooling/dribbling/heavy breathing/grinning over the characters. I abhor alot of the anime girls I find attractive or am indifferent, even when looking at ecchi/hentai drawings I'm straight and clinical with it.
Kaiser Eoghan
I mean to each their own. But I really hate the level of emotion/devotion to moe/finding the characters attractive. Such as celebrating their birthdays, going on about how cute/hot they are, how important it is that they're virgins. Or not being being self-aware of how irritating the characters are.
Lenlo
Anime hipster is pretty accurate. His general treatment of the current state of anime is annoying, as is his obsession with moe. Maybe its cause I cant stand moe most of the time, but it bugs me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: Essentially my brothers view on digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I don't usually feel the need to correct errors in your reviews as the errors are generally un-important, but I think you meant to say apprentices rather than appearences in the Rakugo review, just bringing that up as it felt like kind of a throw off.
AidanAK47
Which is kinda like saying Madoka wasn't a magical girl deconstruction because Sailor Moon and Nanoha had dark elements too.
AidanAK47
Went and read the reddit comments on it and seems I was right on the money.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, He's basically a anime hipster. For example, I saw a thumbnail of his which had Saitama on it and below it "Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?" and I thought "Okay, he's going to go on about how OPM isn't subversive and then list a bunch of arbitrary examples in an attempt to redefine what is actually subversive"
Lenlo
I have lots of issues with Digibro. Dude has some good points, but other very horrible ones. Some issues he feels strongly about and gets kinda biased on imo.
Anonymous669202
acca looks visually interesting, and I personally really dig this kind of show, but it seems that it's definitely not for everyone
AidanAK47
Time to live up to my word. Four posts incoming.
AidanAK47
Man, Little witch Academia was so good. I disagree with the whole Digibro thing about being able to recognise a great show in it's first episode but watching this makes me think that this really is going to be something special.
AidanAK47
Alright, gonna put in effort today and have 3 or 4 first impressions posts done. That should knock out near half the season.
Kaiser Eoghan
Had a flip through handshakers. Garish is the word I'd use to describe it visually, it takes you out of the show.
Topgavin
ASuperMario From the first minute I can already tell it's by the same people that made K. Those colour filters and the extremely jarring/obvious city CGI is unmistakable.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, literally makes my hands shaking. It's an abosolute mess. Highly recommended to check it out because it's so terrible it's great to watch
Vonter212
Yeah, and it's also a literal woman in refrigerator plot device, since that the thing that pushes the story forward.
Masky
I'd say that having to hide your sister's body in fridge would count as daaaaaaark and edgy, but when the body is wearing only underwear, and for some reason main character put metal things in fridge to keep body standing(I guess to not knock fridge open from inside?) I think it goes to "exploitation" you are talking about
Vonter212
@Masky - Did someone said doing dark things for drama? That's the bread and butter to get despair. Unless it's for the sake of perversion. Then it's just exploitation.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Masky: His other works dead tube and scumbag go further in the unhinged regard.
Masky
*relies on easy "let's do [x dark thing] for drama!" thing
Masky
Geez, Mayonaka no X Giten is fricking disturbing/disgusting ._. I'm pretty sure that writing relies on e, but I can't help but think mangaka is trying to make corpses sexy.
SuperMario
I found Onihei to be quite good, actually one of the most solid new episode I watched this new season. Guys, check them out
Vonter
I just hope it doesn't fall into the same misstep Kabaneri or Inuyasha or Bleach fall by making a villain so over the top that it crossed the line of not having a satisfying downfall.
Anonymous657941
@Vonter I think they just moved on. I lost interest rather quickly and I guess even the fans did that at some point, like with some other long-running series. There is much more new and more direct "fujo" stuff out there, many of them probably switched. Don't know what happens in the manga but maybe the story got worse or contained things some people didn't like.
Vonter
January will be loli dictator month (for me) :p. World Conquest Zvezda Plot, Youjo Senki: Saga of Tanya the Evil (new), Seraph of the End. For some reason I stumble into three curious series with little power hungry girls. If I can ask, why did Owari Seraph's hype died, I remember back it was mentioned more often. It still has the fujoshi fanart but still, I don't see people bringing it up.
SuperMario
@CATski: well, if you didn't like its first 3 episodes I dont think the rest gonna change your mind. Have you finished Erased then? How did you like it?
SuperMario
But I understand it's difficult to speak in front of camera, get some time to get used to it
SuperMario
@kaiser: I won't commend on poem as I'm terrible at it myself but younneed to work more on presentation Kaiser. Small little things like looking directly at the camera or say "thanks for listening" in the end can connect you to the audience better
Anonymous657071
Ok. I'll give the thing another chance. *clicks torrent* XD. CATski.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Topgavin: You might like centaur no nanami if you like demi-chan.
Kaiser Eoghan
Damn...repeated myself =<
Kaiser Eoghan
There are these things called slam sessions done in bars where people get up and read out stuff in front of a crowd and read stuff out. Actually watching rakugo made me think about practicing for that kind of thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: the video I did was of me reading out a short piece of writing I did, a poem. lol I uploaded it to the wrong youtube account too I just realized =P
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBZ2hBDBYs&t=11s
I"] was recording this from my mothers laptops inbuilt cam while reading off my desktop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I think it's a good idea for you to try out reviewing movies/stuffs in youtube channel. I'll be very interesting to listen to them
SuperMario
@Topgavin: Agree. Demi-chan was so charming. Definately one of my favorite so far this new season
Topgavin
Demi-chan's first episode was good. Like, really really good. That blonde-haired girl was hilarious, the teacher-student relationship between the MC and the girls is really interesting and the social/practical problems the demi's face make it look like my favorite show so far.
CATski
Ah... ok. Is it really that good or it's just one of those "artsy" animes that tend to get overrated by their ardent fans? I didnt find the rakugo bit interesting.... probably the weakest aspect of the show for me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Why did I read that chapter. Why did I do that to myself.
Kaiser Eoghan
Admittedly yes the premise is not for everyone, but if you stick with it, the flashback arc had some good character work in there.
CATski
Rakugo has a season 2? I watched ep 1 - 3 of season 1 then promptly deleted it. The loud "yankee" dude was annoying. And the anime was boring.
Kaiser Eoghan
Oh man, I've been thinking lately of trying to start some kind of youtube channel. I did a few trial run videos. Its much much harder than it looks, didn't realize how nervy being in front of a video camera was.
Kaiser Eoghan
*a declining art and rakygo halls are closing down
Kaiser Eoghan
As the show continues to mention how "its declining art", that got me thinking of the modern day, how while things like tv and cinemas probably hurt attendances for rakugo performances, the internet has replaced theaters .
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, now I've watched it. It'll be interesting to see Yotaro's relation to sukeroku's daughter develop. By all intents he should be an irritating character and not as interesting a yakumo based on his personality, but I can't help but like him, example of a goofball character done right.
Anonymous654016
ElDlive is looking good
Kaiser Eoghan
I haven't gotten around to rakugo's second seasons first episode yet =<
Kaiser Eoghan
Just looking at masamunes female protaganist I want to punch her.
Kaiser Eoghan
Vapid would be how I'd describe it, I didn't care about Masamune no revenge but at least there was some life to it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, suzuka I remember a friend telling me when I got halfway through the anime to literally run from it and not continue. I flicked through fuukas first two episodes and played count the cliches.
Kaiser Eoghan
While I definitely got something out of Yojo senki's manga, I found the first episode easier to get through than the manga, in terms of pace and exposition.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Fuuka chapter 135. Read and be amazed.
Masky
Ah sorry ._.; And wait, there is another twist later on? What
AidanAK47
@Masky, Even if it's a crap show don't go posting spoilers on the chatbox.
Oh and that's just the begining, a really dumbass twist happened recently in the manga.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I'm away a whole day again so I'll be a bit late on my impressions.
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