Posted by psgels on 24 December 2009 with categories: Umineko no Naku Koro ni



Okay, so apparently this episode was terrible for the visual novel readers. I however am just watching this anime, so I don’t care. This episode was pretty good, and the only thing I’m raging about is that bloody cliff-hanger, especially considering that that second season might not even come!

However, I do agree that Umineko was really, really rushed. How could this have happened, really? People keep saying “DEEN! DEEN! DEEN!”, but they’ve made plenty of great series and adaptations in the past, so that can’t be the only thing. In the end, my eye still falls back to Chiaki Kon, the director. I don’t like her. While she adapted the Higurashi novels really well, with nice balance and a strong direction, she was able to do so because she really didn’t have anything else to do at that time. It was her debut, so she really had to prove that she could direct something right.

But take a look what she’s up to from the past spring: 20 episodes of Hanasakeru Seishounen, 26 episodes of Umineko no Naku Koro ni, and when this is over she’s going to do Nodame Cantabile’s finale. That’s more than 52 episodes within one year! She really took way too much on her plate, and like Shinbo I’d wish that she’d just concentrate on one single series and make that one right, instead of trying to do everything at the same time. Now all of those shows are just going to be really rushed, and they’ll miss the strong direction that Higurashi had. Most directors manage to produce one series every two years, or perhaps even one series a year. Counting the upcoming winter-season, Chiaki Kon has directed six series in two years. Somebody stop her and hand those series over to some other directors. I mean, Studio Deen has enough other talents walking around.

At this point, I have a really hard time deciding how to judge this series. Rushed or not, Umineko has one hell of a backstory. It was always fun to formulate theories, trying to figure out what’s going on. This is why I’m not going to recommend this series to people who already played the visual novel. Not because it’s badly executed, but by far the best thing about Umineko is its mystery. When you already know what’s going to happen, then what’s left? What’s the fun in reading a detective novel if you already know exactly how everything is going to happen?

As for the people who haven’t played the game, it’s a bit trickier, though. It’s a great watch, but I sure as hell ain’t going to recommend this if a second season isn’t being produced. It’s like reading a detective novel, only to discover that someone ripped off the entire second half. This is probably the thing I like the least about anime: it’s “let’s just animate the first part so that we can only animate the conclusion when the sales are good”-mentality. Imagine if Monster or Legend of Galactic Heroes were animated this way.

EDIT: ah, forgot to talk about the episode. It’s interesting how Beatrice basically let Battler bombard her with theories that she could in fact just have blown all away, as if she wanted to lose. At first I thought that she was simply acting again, but for some reason I don’t think she really did that here. Kinzou’s death actually being confirmed was a major revelation, of course. The question really is: who the hell is this guy? If he is one of the seventeen people alive, the servants must be playing a really strange game.

At this point, it’s pretty clear that at least one of them is in on the game: there are only a few family members who knew about Kinzou’s death, while they were in on it all along since they lived inside his house, and otherwise the closed room murder in the third arc would be pretty impossible, but actually plausible: they knew that Kinzou was already dead, and made it seem that he was killed along with the other six to cover him up.

I also wonder, at the end we see Lambdadelta and Bernkastel talk about how Beatrice must never win. Again, big clue: the two are working together and somehow have interest in keeping the game going on forever. And how is Bernkastel’s magic going to play in, I wonder? I mean, her magic is to make anything happen as long as the possibility isn’t zero. If Beatrice is going to be able to win of her she’s going to have to be able to create such a lock-down that there’s no possibility for escape.

There. Happy now? ;)
Rating: * (Good)

And remember: even though the series is finished now, I still reserve the right to delete any comment that spoils beyond this point in the novel

23 Responses

  1. thestation says:

    You haven’t said a word about the episode itself… Only that it was ‘good.’
    For the most part your entry was just ranting xd.

  2. Acylia says:

    Like thestation said, please tell us more what u thought of the episode itself. I was looking forward to reading your thoughts on the different ‘happenings’. x) Save this for the final review of the series. :)

  3. Westlo says:

    Umineko was an indefinitely better adaption of the VNs than Higurashi ever was and Higurashi was a far better anime.

    You say this is rushed yet this only adapted 4 VNs while Higurashi adapted 6 VNs in their first series.

    Higurashi’s setting obviously allowed cuts to flow better unlike Umineko, and Umineko adaption dropped the ball..

    How many anime only readers are going to be coming up with theories? How many are going to be working out if Beatrice is Shannon or Jessica or another character entirely? While the VN readers are swamped with Beatrice and Battler shippers (just see how many complaints about no hug after the Who am I riddle for instance lol) their relationship getting undercut in the anime won’t have that same impact on those viewers.

    You can say so what but their relationship might be the main theme of Umineko in the end. Kinda of a stupid thing to cut down on than isn’t it?

  4. Acylia says:

    @ Westlo

    Yeah, I KNOW! Where did that hug go!? xD

  5. Geekodot says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juEkoLXXoxo = much better version of the final riddle.

  6. Acylia says:

    @ Geekodot
    The final riddle wasn’t really… THAT bad. I kinda liked it. Except for the hug. :

  7. psgels psgels says:

    Geekodot: it might be because I only watched the anime and all… but am I the only one who found that youtube clip cheesy?

    Westlo: it’s like you said:while Higurashi had its charms being rushed like that, it worked a bit less for Umineko, which is why I think that it could have used a lot more episodes.

    Also, while I of course have no idea what’s going to happen in the rest of the story, I liked the enidng even thogh there wasn’t a hug. Because of the way the ended with the riddle, I’m right now very excited for the second season (if it’s ever going to come, of course). While the episode itself wasn’t of the epic proportions you described, the ending was a far better closure than with Higurashi’s first season.

  8. Acylia says:

    @ psgels
    Amen to that. :P

    Well, at least I loved the voice actors in Umineko. Most of them, at least. XD

  9. Geekodot says:

    @psgels
    Well, I can understand it being cheesy to anime only viewers, because most of the inner monologue and character relationships between Battler and Beato was cut from the last battle in the anime. Even if the anime did end with this exact scene, with all they cut in the last battle and episode 4 in general, it probably wouldn’t work like it did in the VN.

  10. Acylia says:

    *Reading your post again after edit*
    Bernkastel and Lamda don’t seem very nice, do they? -.- I feel kinda sorry for Beato if that’s the case. She really seems like she wants to die in this episode. I really like her character, though. There’s a lot more to her than we think. :) … I think. *lol*

    [No wonder I’m cosplaying her for the next con in my country ^-^]

  11. fox demon soavi says:

    where in the visual novels does this leave off? 4, 5 or 6?

  12. Marion says:

    @fox demon soavi: It ends at EP 4. EP 5 starts the answer arcs.

  13. Anon says:

    Hate to break it to you, bro, but Amatsuki was an awful adaptation. Did you know that Toki was trapped inside of a virtual reality the whole time, run by a company called the Sensai Corporation? I’ll bet you didn’t, because DEEN literally cut half the plot.

    DEEN has always made really rushed and half-baked adaptations. It just really shined with Umineko because instead of being able to cut in huge chunks, they had to whittle away at individual scenes until nothing was left.

  14. Deus says:

    “I also wonder, at the end we see Lambdadelta and Bernkastel talk about how Beatrice must never win. Again, big clue: the two are working together and somehow have interest in keeping the game going on forever.”

    Yes, finally, no more need for spoilers. :D

    When you think about it, it actually makes sense. Bernkastel’s goal is to win the game against Beatrice, and Lambda’s goal is to keep Bern occupied forever (and to do that, she must make sure that *the game goes on forever*. If any party wins, the game ends, so she will work so that both sides will never win). At no point in this equation can Beatrice ever get the upper hand. She will either be defeated by Bern, or Lambda will enforce a stalemate til eternity. In the end, two VERY powerful (way more powerful than Beatrice, in fact) witches have basically ordained Beatrice’s doom.

    Somebody up top said that the two didn’t seem very nice here. In the VN scene, they were… scarier. Full on evil faces and cackling scarier. There’s definitely something more to it than Beatrice = Bad, Bernkastel = Good, and if Beatrice is defeated everything in Umineko will become right as rain.

    If you’re up to reading a supplemental short story by the creator containing the motivations and schemes of the witches in Arc 4 (to be read after this arc):

    The Witches Tanabata: http://community.livejournal.com/witchhunters/6549.html

    Seriously, read it.

  15. Writer says:

    *Sigh* Guys, you’re forgetting something very important here about this adaption, and Higurashi too. Something that you’re brushing off as simply being bad.

    Ahem – you’re trying to compress many hours worth of information into a 26 episode series, each episode not even accounting up to half an hour. It would have helped if each episode could have been twice the length, or that of a typical anime movie, but they weren’t. Few studios would have had the budget and voice actors at their disposal to make it work, and then there’s the broadcasting as well to pay for and smooth over.

    In short, yes, the series was rushed, but HOW could it be otherwise?! It’s like you’re trying to turn the entire cast, covering a wall, into an average sized picture without making it look too abstract or simply heads pasted one beside the other. In short, you need to be one hell of a workhorse and perfectionist to make it so, and though Deen wasn’t that equine, can you really blame them?

    And now for the episode; the fact that there’s only 17 people on the island from the start means that Battler has to suspect one of his relatives, or the workers. Personally, I’m going with either Kumasawa, Gohda, or Genji. Yes, it invokes the old “the butler did it”, but think about it; these three are the least likely to inherit anything from Kinzo, and though that doesn’t make for motive, it does mean that they have a reason (hatred festers, as they say) and many, many opportunities.

    Now, I know this card was played by Higurashi, but what if there’s some kind of swamp gas or something on Rokenjima? Something that assists in the delusions taking place in the mansion? Couldn’t it help with Kinzo’s infamous delusional behavior, if he isn’t (or at least just) suffering from dementia? Or even more reliable, what about a gas leak? How do we know what kind of heating they use if they’re still in the late eighties?

  16. Marion says:

    @Writer: I think that’s a lame solution. To just rehash the same solution from Higurashi is simply lame and I don’t think Ryukishi would resort to such a cop out solution.

    As for Kinzo he was acting crazy because he wanted to see Beatrice again after so many years, along with his family constantly hounding him for money like vultures.

  17. Writer says:

    @ Marion: Your comment has been duely noted. I know that it’s an unlikely happening, but I’m not saying that it’s Hinamizawa syndrome all over again; just oxygen deprivation to the brain, or maybe poisoning a gas leak, making them less likely to be rational and more likely to murder. Again, we have no way of knowing how the building is heated, whether it uses electric heaters, gas, or even a wood stove – just that there’s a boiler room, which has a wood opening.

    And not to be snarky, but I don’t see you putting anything more reasonable up Marion. I know that Kinzo’s wrought with his desire to see Beatrice, it’s the reason behind the bracketed addition, so you don’t need to spell it out to me. Besides, I didn’t say that it was a or the solution, I said it was a theory, something to assist the other possibilities. Don’t go attacking when I haven’t said that it’s definite.


    And now, to something that is actually relevant/helpful, could Beatrice be a memory? I remember that Beatrice was considered by Battler to be a legend of the island, and who knows? Maybe he thought someone like Kumasawa was Beatrice back then before he realized who she was. Therefore, this is my theory; Beatrice is a memory of magic/witches in Battler’s past, proven false, made when he left the household to live with his grandparents. She is the image of a person who Battler made up in his head, destroyed when he realized that it was a normal person and not a witch. The “sin” that was mentioned before was Battler attacking said person before he realized his mistake, and the remembrance of this event is what would “kill” him while he’s alone on Rokenjima.

    Tell me how that conflicts with anything in the story, people. And before anyone goes with “but Battler should remember such an event”, picture it, if you will, if you attacked a person seriously when you thought it was a witch, to the point that the other person looks like they’ve died, at the young age of twelve. You don’t remember such an event, you bury it in your head, traumatizing you into keeping from doing such a thing ever again. “She wasn’t a witch, because witches don’t exist”, becomes the force behind, “Witches and magic don’t exist”, even when you’re fighting against one to prove that very point. Of course, this isn’t likely to be right, but it’s an idea all the same, and it satisfies me.

  18. thestation says:

    I think I just found something really interesting. So, in this episode it was established that Kinzo really was dead all the time. Now watch episode 2, when Rosa is asking everyone who lent the umbrella to Maria.
    Dr. Nanjo says: ‘It wasn’t me either. After all, I was playing chess with Kinzo until a few minutes ago.’
    Doesn’t this make Nanjo look really, really suspicious ^^ ?
    And it wasn’t anything shown by the witch, it was the first game.
    And I think I said it somewhere before on this blog, but I’ll say it again , in episode 12, at the part where Maria receives the letter + umbrella , the letter was already sealed with the ring , before Beatrice even received the ring. Then I thought, it must have been written by Kinzo, maybe even before his dead. At least I don’t think it really was written by Beatrice, she didn’t have the ring in time.

  19. 4saken says:

    Nanjo isn’t the only one.
    Genji, Kanon, Shanon, Natsuhi and Rosa also claimed to meet Kinzo too.

  20. monkzor says:

    Battler did it. No spoiler, just lols

  21. cillia says:

    wow. this episode… just wow. i did one of those maria laughs at the end of the episode.

    the cliffhanger was so absolutely… ugh T_T HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO WAIT THAT LONG FOR THE EXPLINATIONS????

  22. Uminekofan says:

    For everybody who ever reads this, know this. EP7 of the VN presents you with all the clues needed to solve the mysteries. The epitaph, gold, Kinzo, everything like that is answered. The twilights however aren’t. And EP8 won’t address that. All the killings that happened here will forever have no official explanation. It’s up to you to understand it. But EP7 bombards you with such huge clues that reasoning out this is completely possible.

    It’s just that I haven’t done it yet (In my defence, I’ve figured out EP1 and the first twilight of EP2.)

    This anime adaptation was good, I only got in the VNs after watching it. It has some serious, serious mistakes. In the first game, first twilight, the very first murder, the anime shows you Shannon’s face. They shouldn’t have shown you that. Out of all the twilights that happened, this one is the only one that EP7 tells you in the face that it happened like this: Shannon played dead. She didn’t die in the first twilight.

    ANOTHER BIG SPOILER OF EP7

    There are bombs in the island. In the first and second game, everyone dies. A part of the island blows up when the clock ticks midnight of the second night. The explosion of the bombs never reach the hidden mansion. Another thing, all this anime showed you Beatrice games. There’s a definite truth, non-magical explanation of what TRULY happened in the island in EP7. Like Ange’s future shows us, Eva is the sole survivor because she activated the bombs and then run to the hidden mansion, then played dumb about not knowing anything.

    That’s all I’ll leave for you all. Have fun, and read the VNs (especially 5-7, or 7 if you want the one with most answers) if you liked the anime. Byee.

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Anonymous2037529
LWA academia is probably the only trigger project i've truly cared about. I haven't watched KlK to completion or luluco for that matter(i got to get around to that) but ive seen everything else and i just don't give a damn about any of em
Amagi
But to say something positive - I liked the second episode of Kamuy way better than the first one. Budget seems to be really bad but the rest makes up for it it seems.
Amagi
I think Luluco was the only one I enjoyed after KlK which already had a bunch of problems - but overall it was far too entertaining for me to seriously care about those.
Amagi
Guess the last 1/3 might be more interesting when they start with the actual world building for once, although they could probably slam the love stuff even more in our faces but who knows. Not fond of any of the latest Trigger anime to be honest.
Amagi
Also they're really overdoing it with all that obvious message stuff and the "love superpower" trope I always hated anyway. Still watching I mean at least it has a plot and tries.
Amagi
I still can't care about anyone or anything in this series I think it's really not made for me. I might have liked Goro but he's too unimportant and the sauros revelation was kind of a letdown since it's the most common twist for these kinds of things.
AidanAK47
Alright Franxx, you are forgiven for episode 14.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Do you ever go to those surprise horror/thriller preview screenings? Where they don't tell you what film it is until it starts?
Kaiser-Eoghan
*worrying about
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its saying something, when I haven't seen eternal sunshine since it came out, but even by re-watching the trailer, the feelings, the whole film comes back. At that point I'd grown out of Jim Carey's comedy, so seeing him play against type was refreshing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Ah, I'm more forgiving then, I'm likely to give higher points for sheer imagination that I'm not as bothered by worry about the story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Any negative argument against mood indigo by him can be countered by the fact it has Audrey Tatou in it.
Anonymous2035464
jhonrhean
SuperMario
and I just watched A Quiet Place. A solid indie horror one. It builds on atmosphere and it does the family chemistry right
SuperMario
I don't like The Science of Sleep to be honest. Tons of interesting ideas and visually creativeness but the story itself is a mess
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Gondry needs to avoid making any more commercial comedies, he also needs to start working with Kaufman again, they brought out the best in each other, although on his own, he can be playful and inventive with his films, such as mood indigo and science of sleep.
SuperMario
But check out his other movie Eternal sunshine of Spotless Mind. It has an inventive mind control/ mind altering concept in there
SuperMario
Jim Carrey is kind of mind controller himself. I couldn't take my eyes off him
SuperMario
@anon2028818: it was indeed season 5. SORRY FOR MY IGNORANCE :)
Vonter
The Jim Carrey movies.
Vonter
Dorei-ku seems like a Kakegurui. You see one episode you've seen all. It'll be better if it was crazier like Mirai Nikki. Mind control IMO could be a very creepy setup if it's watched through the perspective of the victim rather than the perpetrator. Losing notion or reality and control. Could liar liar and Yes man be considered mind controlled stories?
Vonter
Ore Mahou Shoujo, baffles me, since I had to skip another long musical off key number, which makes me wonder where the budget cut starts and where the trolling begins. Also makes me sad, there aren't a lot of female to male transformations since it'll be interesting watching that perspective. Maybe a love triangle from both genders could apply since females are more accepted to be bi, in media.
Vonter
Megalobox could be something really special, but I hope like with Ashita no Joe, the anime isn't solely boxing. Joe, had social commentary, had a personal struggle do to the protagonist origin, attitude and view of life, since he started very immature and rebellious.
Amagi
Megalo Box, Tiramisu (I find this genuinely funny), S;0, GGO which is so much better than SAO, Wotaku, Hinamatsuri, Cutie Honey, LotGH, Hisone to Masotan and so on
Amagi
I really love this season as well.
Lenlo
Also personally I am enjoying this current season a alot. But I also know/like a good bit of the reboots/sequels
Lenlo
Oh man... 2015 winter was good. Forgot thats when those came out
Anonymous2028818
@SuperMario: Wasn't that Natsume season 5?, pretty sure season 4 was several years earlier.
SuperMario
Another strong anime season for me was 2015 Winter, where we had YuriKuma Arashi, Maria the Virgin Witch, Death Parade, Durarara whatever season, second cour of Shirobako, Parasyte and Your Lie in April
SuperMario
Even so, with this season I'm still willing to give some shows another chance, like Caligula or Cutie Honey Universe(!)
SuperMario
For me, the best season in recent years was Fall 2016 when we had Flip Flappers, Sound Eupho 2, Yuri on Ice, Natsume 4, Fune wo Amu, Drifters and 3-gatsu no Lion. But I know that Aidan would disagree with me on this
SuperMario
@anon2028201: it's me who said this season is a mixed bag. It's like you said, this season is too heavily on sequels/ reboots and only some new anime stand out, the rest of the pack is just meh.
Anonymous2028201
To me this seems like a pretty good seasons, but judging some of the impressions, it's a bit more of a mixed bag for most. Just curious, what were the best seasons for recent anime? This one seems good to me, but to early to tell right now
Anonymous2028201
Lovin this season so far: a lot of reboots/reimaginings and sequels, but I'm enjoying them all. MHA S3, LOGH DNT, S;G 0, Megalobox, Golden Kamuy are what I'm watching right now. I hear Full Metal Panic is good as well, but I haven't gotten around to watching the original series.
Anonymous2028258
so i just recently rewatched fullmetal panic fumoffu and i gotta say that this is easily one of Kyo ani's best works. It's such a surprise that this was their first anime; it's a damn good romance comedy
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Lol I love B-movie type stuff, because the rules are off.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was the only person who watched Mazinkaiser skl and shin mazinger and skullman.
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser Takeshi Koike really wanted to really sell it as a grindhouse feature and I ate that shit up; I really dug the tone he was going for.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: It was strange seeing that Goemon short, much as I enjoyed it, thats the goriest I seen lupin get.
Anonymous2026379
Megalo box is pure retro while lupin is a mix of old and new...and you're right; people just think they can't jump right into it. But that's why more people should be talking about it; to let the masses know that you don't need a starting point to get into the Lupin franchise
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a massive fan of the devilman manga and I thought devilman crybaby was better than it.
Anonymous2026379
90's-esque throwback feeling shows like lupin and megalo box have been giving me
Anonymous2026379
Luoin part 5 is definitely mixing the best of new and old. Honestly, I've been having a blast with it as well as this generally 90
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think the problem is, people see lupin as this long thing they can't get into, when really its so episodic/standalone mostly you can pick up and watch.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And of course getting the best bits out of old and new.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*visual style
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a fan of this hybrid old and new style, megalobox does it too, mine fujiko aswell and casshern sins.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was surprised by how well the Fujiko mine show came together in the end.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'll be interested in picking up more facts about thrm.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Come think of it, Akira Kurosawa did some old western (eastern?) in Russian, that had an Ainu in it.
Anonymous2026379
Asirpa is sooooo adorable.....almost feels patronizing to say that about her due to how badass she is
Anonymous2026379
What makes Fujiko work so well as this sexy icon is that she isn't just sexy: she's smart as shit and uses that sexiness to dominate and control her opponents (similar to bayonetta) rather than be chained by the objectification of her opponents (and the viewers for that matter)
Anonymous2026379
I wonder what other obscure cameos we may get this season. And yea you're right about some of Lupin's potentially sexist traits being assuaged by his level of cool and the genuine respect he shows a good deal of the women he has encountered throughout the series
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yet still a fun film at the same time.
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser Yea, mamo was a pretty dark element introduced to the lupin franchise; and considering the tone of the gravestone of Jigen, it makes sense he would cameo there
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Help I want to kidnap Asirpa =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I'm probably as surprised as you, at finding someone to talk to about Lupin on here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: And through comparing/contrasting the jigen grave stone and Fujiko mine, with some of the sillier older ones, it shows the Lupin characters are flexible enough to work both in a darker AND sillier context.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*character
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Fujiko is precisely how a fanservicey character should work and how built in/essential it is to her haracter, without becoming an irritant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: By all means Lupin himself shouldn't be a character we like, much like Bond, but like Bond theres a coolness to the character that allows us to love him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Another great thing about Lupin is how it uses its 60s cool to get away with what would normally probably be considered fairly sexist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I had a big smile on my face when Mamo made a cameo appearance at the end of one of the recent ones and thats because I remember the Lupin Mamo movie was one of those first anime that I watched about 20 years aago.
Anonymous2026379
not to mention that its one of the few anime this season that actually knows how to utilize dialogue to explore flesh out its characters rather than exposition or contrivance: looking at you darling in the franxx
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser-Eoghan Nice fun facts; but yea Lupin III is a series that has always had an amazing sense of pacing and adventure, traits that are definitely on display this season
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Its a huge franchise too so I'm often never sure where to go next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: You may or may not know this, but the voice actor for solid snake voiced Lupin in one of the dubs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I watched a few episodes of the Italy set lupin show too .
Its a fun franchise due to its cast but its something I have to follow irregularly, lest it get repetitive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Fun fact, guy who directed the gold of babylon film was a famous B-movie noir director in the 60s.
Lenlo
Dont trust anything written by the original SAO author. Everything is his fault. Kirito is not in this series.
Lenlo
Even the original SAO author has little to do with it, which is why its actually good
Lenlo
So SAO Alt is basically completely removed from the rest of SAO
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Lupin is one of those things I dip in and out of, whatever part of the franchise it is. I've seen birdcage kingdom, Mamo, cagliostro, nostradamus, Jigens grave stone, mine fujiko and the recent Goemon centred special.
Anonymous2026379
it's a damn shame not a lot of ppl are talkig about/watching lupin the third this season
Kaiser-Eoghan
But for all I know with that team behind it, its an improvement, but theres probably not much point in me watching as I dropped the first season after less than 10 episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
See how he attempts to seduce me into watching something related to sword art.
Lenlo
Huh... I didnt know the writer for SAO Alt was written by the Kino's Journey creator and produced by the Flip Flappers people. Explains a lot
Lenlo
I wish I knew what you meant by shaman girls, and I cant wait
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Oh I know Leskinen. May he find his Japanese Shaman girls one day. But seeing as I know the story I wanna experience it differently.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its even set in hokkaido, Korean/Japanese director, Japanese cast, Ken Watanabe is in it: https://letterboxd.com/film/unforgiven-2013/
Lenlo
Also, I love the ED. Really, 2 episodes in, I love S;G all over again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: really? They remade Unforgiven in Japanese?
Lenlo
its*
Lenlo
Like... is good.
Lenlo
But your missing out on the cult of Leskinen. The engrish is actually one of my favorite parts
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Meanwhile I am happily waiting for the dub.
Lenlo
Dangit... I have to wait another week for Steins;Gate 0 now. I cant do this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Japanese remake of unforgiven had ainu people in it.
Anonymous2025797
Also I wonder if budget is distributed according to the director, some animes will spend more in the first episode. Some will spend more in the last ones. It's subjective, but if it's like all business it is looking for the better result at the minimum expense. Hence why I believe Berserk was made the way it did.
Anonymous2025797
@Kaiser-Eoghan - Ideally a story should be as long as it needs. But reality seems that a number of episodes is decided before production. And so you either have to stretch or cut material. Kinda like that 300 page manga of Les Miserables, is simply unfeasible translating that book into that few pages.
KTravlos
Oberstein was a great character.
KTravlos
I actually feel Aidan can do a good job on it. Sometimes been too exposed to the material may lead to clouded eyes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though I'm surprised by how I unexpectedly laughed at wotaku, I do wonder if later on it will include any slight drama elements to sustain interest.
Kaiser-Eoghan
OMO; OBERsteins; Gate =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
From watching episode 2 of golden kamuy, yeah, the source material definitely is lifting this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm going to have to wait and see on steins; gate 0, it is encouraging to here this might be darker , at the same time I remember having to sit through too much goofy humour in the first one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was actually surprised, that, while rare, there were some moments of humour, that lightened it for me.
AidanAK47
Throughout the entire series I expected Oberstein to pull some inevitable double cross. And was shocked when he never did.
Amagi
@Kaiser: Agree with Oberstein. I think antagonists are es important as the mains in fiction and I loved this guy, he's perfect for series like these.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Galactic heroes was an example of where when watching it, when big death scenes occured, I would make noooooo and shouting noises at the screen while clenching my fist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I love characters like Oberstein, shrewd, clever, but done right to where I can believe it, not characters like, say Lelouch .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd be concerned if the new galactic heroes series skimps on the violence, that kind of thing needs to be in there, in most shows/films and shown to be explicit, consequences need to be shown.
Amagi
*about, not with
Amagi
Sadly, most original 2+ cours series I know feel dragged whereas many 1 cours originals could have needed ~3 more episodes. Talking with series that have an actual plot of course.
Amagi
I really like the 13 episodes thingy for originals but I wish there would be more 26 episodes series, especially for adaptions.
Amagi
@Kaiser: I agree. Nothing kills my interest faster than formularic episodes and repetition.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In general I think 50 episodes would be the most I'd watch for an anime, 39 seems ideal.
Amagi
Or worse and the romance drama is the main plot and it's Kiznaiver all over again, while the rest is just flavor to make the romances more forced since they're the MCs are only teens and such. Dunno but I can never bring myself to care about this kind of stuff.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though better 110 episodes of galactic heroes than a long shounen that just repeats itself.
Amagi
Speaking of recent episodes, I unironically thing that FranXX's world (building) is pretty interesting (although I hope those klaxxosaurusses will be more than just random cannon fodder) but I doubt the series will ever get to the main plot again the next time.
Amagi
Same here. It was really the only time I did this. I am usually exhausted by just thinking about marathoning long series. It's the reason why I won't get into FMP for the new series either. LotGH was an exception since I found it easily to watch for some reason.
SuperMario
Man, just image burning through 110 episodes of it and my spirit fades away
Amagi
Watched that whole series ages ago.
Amagi
Just watched the first three Neue These episodes and I surprinsingly liked it. Thought I would hate it due to being an OVA fan, and I still prefer the old designs by far but overall it's pretty good. I think I might even prefer this version of the first battle, but I have to rewatch the old one I guess.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also while I can't remember which episode, Yang picks up a book with the author of the series' name on it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Arslan feels so lightweight by contrast/comparison.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I think, given your knowledge KTtravlos, that a series review of the new galactic heroes season would probably benefit from you writing it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring up the music in my earlier comment, because I can understand your reservations regarding the music choice in the remake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And certainly one of those shows, that going back to the first episode after finishing, gives a strong perspective just on how evolving the series was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*despite me not
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite not being monarchist , because the characters were human moreso than cartoon characters I couldn't hate on Reinhard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: I suppose by the time it got to Julian's arc, I was surprised they were still bothering to fight but the fact that they were essentially the last bastion of their beliefs made it special.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Sometimes when I just finish a show, its a case where I HAVE to jump online immediately after and excitedly ramble out an essay on it.
niello
ugh democracy
KTravlos
@Kaiser ultimately LOGH for me was a decisive point in my political life, as I think it made the best defense of democracy in any form I have seen. And it worked partly because the opponent was presented in the best possible incarnation (Rienhard). Yang's continued adherence to democracy, despite recongising its flaws, helped me avoid a personal descent into authoritarian politics.
KTravlos
@Kaiser. I am happy you had a good experience. I watched the prequels a while after the main show and I was happy because it was great getting back to those characters. The prequels were also great in fleshing the setting and the characters. So yes, take your time and a break. That way the prequels will be like visiting a place you liked again after a while.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@KTtravlos: I have some other stuff to get through before watching the galactic heroes prequel though =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
YES according to discord poster I'm not a millenial!
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for overposting. I have always always being an incredibly verbose person.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter; Not that I oppose captilistically made for a buck cinema, it can be entertaining yes, but I set a standard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: As open as I am to trash cinema, I consider the resident evil films, like the superhero ones, anti-art.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can understand why people don't like Villier, but he did I think work as a device to add extra tension.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel some release at finishing but at the same time sadness at saying goodbye to the show and its characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
, showing its age.
But for something of this length, it kept itself up far better than most long shows and I feel the length its somewhat justified.

On another note….as corny as the third ending theme is, I got the feels listening to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But while the first 50 odd episodes were an easy job for me aswell as all of the 4th season and some of the late 3rd season made it difficult for me to pull myself away from it, the dialogue even though often well observed did become difficult to follow at times and somewhere in the middle theres a stretch of episodes, bar some moments that feel a bit of an endurance test and the animation is at
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its attention to detail I felt was at its strongest in the documentary and the series dedication to filling the view in on its world building/fictional history.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I admired the scope, ambition of this series and the battles eventually grew on me and I was surprised by just how visceral the melee combat got which suited me perfectly. At the same time for all the strategy and action, I found myself more in it for the story, characters and intrigue/politicking. Those battles, due in part to their music choices, had an epic feel to them
Kaiser-Eoghan
In the end the characters stood out for me the best were Reinhard, Oberstein (for being essentially the amazing man with the plan), Reuntal, Kircheis and Rubinsky, I warmed up to Julian, Yang and Schenkop. When important deaths occurred, they felt highly dramatic, in four cases emotionally effecting for me .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also, KTtravlos, thank you for pushing me toward watching the original legend of the galactic heroes, my opinion on the series is largely a mixed one, but by the end I felt I’d watched something rewarding and I’m happy its crossed off my list and I should have gotten round to it sooner.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm probably the oldest here, being 32. Which apparently makes me around Yang-wenli's age, which according to someone means I'm middle aged .
Kaiser-Eoghan
To the discord guy who brought it up, its difficult not for me to be political, my father was an activist and is a Marxist , I ended up becoming a contradiction a semi-agnostic, but spiritually inclined/tolerant socialist with internationalist ideology.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Ends in very cliffhanger/abrupt indy way though and the things weakness/how to kill thems too easy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I liked how it explains nothing also and the creature design and how it visual communicates to the audience.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: While I won't say anything, a character death is handled in what I considered a schmaltzy manner. There is a particularly headscratching decision the characters make that you'll either rationalize or hate, but it leads to one of the tenser set pieces later on.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Quiet place has a good idea at its backbone, that they use sign language in the film to communicate and occassional whispers adds to it, it and the silence allows for a mood to be effectively communicated. It does have jump scares, I wasn't annoyed by them, but I never felt the film required them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read the discord, if you ever need to ask a question relating to film, come to me about it, I will without fail be able to answer 9 times out of 10.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was adequately amused by the first episode of wotaku, but found the male lead funnier, which I'm attributing to him be more deadpan.
Lenlo
We found a convient weekend for everyone
Kaiser-Eoghan
*watching
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would also float the idea of recommendation podcasts every now and then.
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