Posted by psgels on 30 December 2010 with categories: Shiki



That really was just an amazing conclusion. It was just stunning, and without a doubt the best ending of the entire season and in my top 3 of best ending of the year. I mean, December has been a fantastic month for Shiki, it turned out to be significantly better than just about anything else that was airing at the moment. This ending was just its crowning moment.

Now, in terms of storytelling there was that point where Natsuno found Tatsumi perhaps a little easily, but in terms of storytelling it was just amazing to see everything just fall apart for both the Shiki and the humans as well. A fire (probably set by the Shiki in a desperate attempt, but more explanation on that will probably follow in the final two DVD Specials) also put an end to the hopes of Toshio to come out of this unscathed either: it’s impossible to explain to the police what happened and if this were set in the real world, it probably would have made the headlines throughout the entire world.

The interesting thing is that strangely enough, the creators refused to kill children under fourteen years old. The ventriloquist is killed off screen, Akira turns out to be alive, and Sunako survives thanks to Seishin’s injury that didn’t turn ot to be serious enough to actually kill him. At the same time though: Tomio Ookawa really was about to kill that girl, and Megumi also got a really gruesome death scene.

Now, I do wonder what the two DVD episodes are going to focus on, though: they’re titled episode 20,5 and 21,5, but this episode showed the preview for an actual epilogue. In any case, I see no way for these episodes to not be utterly amazing. Shiki has just shown how to perfectly make use of Noitamina’s timeslot, with finally another 22 episode series and an array of episodes on DVD only in order to complete the story.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

68 Responses

  1. Diasen says:

    Seishin turned into a jinrou at the end I think. If I remember right, his eyes changed.

  2. AKI says:

    Judging from the Episode Numbers, I believe that it will be the Maeda Motoko arc.

  3. gaby says:

    I thought it was Natsuno that started the fire?

  4. Nayrael says:

    As I suspected, the anime’s ending was based on the Light novel (obviously with some differences like Natsuno (who never raised in novels)).

    All in all, this was a FANTASTIC show. My favorite show of 2010 no doubt.

  5. totoum says:

    Megumi’s death is right up there with the 2nd half of episode 14 as the most disturbing scene in the the anime to me

  6. Israeru says:

    Wow Sunako survives… super spoiler, i am downloading this chapter now!

  7. Frost says:

    Sunako being saved at the last moment by Muroi ruined this for me… I knew it would happen since it was the same last episode but seriously… Yay lets save the loli because shes a little innocent girl

    Not to mention Muroi was probably the most useless character in the whole thing… He never did anything relevant, and then suddenly switched to the vampire side and starts helping Sunako for no reason whatsoever…what a pathetic character, and yet he survives while Tomio dies… FUUUU

    Cannot contain my rage at this episode really, tried way too hard to make the Shiki survive… The only great thing was Megumi dying a brutal death

  8. Alec says:

    Amazing finale!
    in the end, no one won

  9. Mk says:

    Throughout this entire show I’ve never sympathized with the Shiki, In fact I lol’d quite a bit at Megumi’s death, the only thing I didn’t like was the fact that Sunako and Muroi survive both of them were definitely the worst and most useless characters in the show. Apart from that I think Shiki had the best ending this year.

  10. WStWolf says:

    Wait, didn’t you realize that Seishin became a jinroh? That’s why his eyes were a different color after he rose, why it showed a new kind of blood mixing with his red blood cells when Sunako located him, why the camera focused on him when the jinrou were discussig how a jinrou doesn’t need to stay dead for a few days in order to rise up, why he was able to find his way in the dark, why he was at full health when he saved her at the end, and why he was able to drive away during the breaking of dawn. Shinrou’s a werewolf now.

  11. windy says:

    I was deeply relieved that Sunako survived and that Muroi managed to get at the temple before it was too late, my heart nearly exploded when Ookawa was trying to kill her ( really, she says it times and times again that it’s not like she chose that life, but it’s only natural she doesn’t want to die , or murdered, and besides the other guy just got it wrong, most of them didn’t “kill” , they “hunted for food” ( a completely different concept ), I don’t know, this just doesn’t seem right to me, I know the villagers didn’t have much choice and the vampires were killing them and people were just dying away and all, but I guess I share Muroi’s opinion on the matter, killing because others killed ( somehow even this notion could be questioned: what is particularly disturbing is that when villagers got transformed, their original mind didn’t change whatsoever, they were just the same except for their thirst of human blood, Megumi still wanted to go outside and shine, Toru was still the same kind-hearted guy with a sense of moral values that made him feel prodigiously guilty even if he was also left without a choice, except for letting himself starve to death, but it’s not that easy as people may tend to think, if some kind of phenomena like this had appeared, I don’t know what the majority of people would have done, I don’t think they would have just let themselves die out, at all times humans strove to survive, no matter the methods they had to use ( at war periods …). When Megumi got killed I’ve got the feeling they were just killing her former self, but they also did it for their own survival, that’s what so striking with this series, it’s that it shows the two sides and presents them so as it would arouse our sympathy and understanding. But anyway, I’m just glad Muroi and Sunako , my two favorite characters of the show, managed to get out of the whole thing alive, no matter what the consequences will be, it is just too great to be true, didn’t believe that would happen. But with this, the series put up an open ending somehow, as we don’t know what will happen with them once they leave the village and settle elsewhere. I also got the feeling that Muroi “died” somehow, then transformed into a shiki or maybe he became a jinro without even truly “dying” but the scene when he awakes surprised me as I was totally sure he wouldn’t survive from such a blood loss. With this being said, this was one of the greatest shows ever, something we don’t see quite often, and the ending was just amazing to close up this breathtakingly amazing series!!!!!

  12. WStWolf says:

    Again, Muroi DID transform. He became a jinroh. Read my post above yours.

  13. Aline says:

    Amazing ending. The only thing that was disappointing to me was that Akira miraculously turned out to be alive. I hope this will be explained in the 2 extra episodes, because it seemed really unlikely he would be alive after Tatsumi tied him up and left him with a hungry Shiki that had just risen.

  14. JinS says:

    This has been an amazing show. Definitely deserves more attention.

    Seishin has been completely pathetic for 21 and 9/10 episodes. Almost as useless as Ookami Kakushi’s main character. I’m glad he actually did something for the very first time in his life at the end, but I was really hoping he would die and unfortunately he did not.

  15. JinS says:

    @Aline

    Tatsumi already said a few episodes ago that he knows Natsuno took Akira away to somewhere.

  16. qwerty says:

    it may make me a horrible person but there was a point during megumi’s death scene that i let a laugh out.

    i mean after they’ve run her over several times, pinned her down with one of the tractors AND crushed her head the guy actually says “lets kill her quickly for her sake”

    does anyone know the significance of the scene that played out during the credits? i couldn’t make out who the people getting on the bus were with the thing being so small.

  17. Dynamic A says:

    This series definitely makes one think… and not about very many nice things, either. The series went out of its way to make sure that neither side was sympathetic (with the exception of a few characters)… the main protagonists were a nihilist (Natsuno) and a sadist (Ozaki), the Shiki were essentially serial killers who never TRIED anything but killing humans, and the villagers, from the moment they were finally convinced about the existence of the “Shiki” instantly became the sort of racist, xenophopic (or would it be anthrophobic?) mob of murderers that echoes back to the not so distant past in which the Japanese brutally committed numerous war atrocities to the “lesser” Asian peoples they conquered.

    That was by far the most disturbing part of the series, along with Ozaki’s callous, sociopathic dissection/mengele-style live autopsy of his shiki-fied wife. You could not watch the ho-hum piling of shiki bodies in mass graves and NOT hear echoes of not only Auschwitz, but incidents that hit much closer to the Japanese, such as the Rape of Nanking and the Bataan Death March.

    This is a series that offers little to nothing in the way of hope for morality or humanity… the bullshit pseudo-philosophical atheistic rejection of “God” and justification for Sunako and the Shiki by the Junior Monk at the end rings just as hollow as the actions of the Shiki and the villagers themselves that each side rationalized as “the right thing to do.”

    If the goal of this series was to frustrate and anger, it certainly succeeded on me. Was it disgusting? I think so. But my disgust certainly doesn’t come from the comically over the top violence and blood spatter, but from the motivations behind those actions by the characters.

    -DA

  18. @DA and Windy

    wow, Spot on!

    I 1) actually sympathized with both sides
    2) LIKED Muroi and Sunako
    3) Realized that the villagers became JUST as bad as the shiki when they slaughtered Murois Parents and the other shrine guy who were STILL HUMAN.

    Its funny how everyone was like *oh muroi and sunako should have died blah blah blah*, just confirms how sick and twisted most people here could become in a situation like this. . .hell if the world went to shit in a situation like failed economic countries, Argentina of the early 2000s comes to mind, I wouldnt trust any of you, as you probably go mad with bloodlust and just start killing for the sake of killing which this really showed the villagers doing towards the end.

    When the zombie Apocalypse comes, I know who Id trust, DA and Windy ;p

  19. Bob McBob says:

    Muroi had a great character arc. He went from confused idiot to just plain idiot in this episode.

  20. Aeon says:

    @qwerty The people who got on the bus were Natsuno’s dad, The fat nurse, and Kanami Yano.
    The woman from way back when Tatsumi “Lost his way” when the Kirishiki’s were moving into Kanemasa. She was also shown recently protecting her mother who became a shiki,by giving her mother her own blood. ep 19, about halfway point.

  21. But it’s not finished, episode 23 will be on air the Thursday January 6th, 2010, isn’t it?

  22. psgels psgels says:

    Le Gluon: really? Where did you read that?

  23. at the end of each shiki anime, in the final music, you have a preview of the next episode. I was suprised to see a preview of the next episode in the 22. And the next episode is announced on this address:
    http://www.zomganime.com/shiki-episode-23

  24. Wertzu says:

    Nice contradiction of the plot in the beginning of this episode btw:
    Sunako became quickly out of breath during her sprint, altough she shouldnt even have breathed as a Vampire ;)

  25. psgels psgels says:

    Le Gluon: the thing is that for announcements like these, you really should look at official sites and sources and not a silly streaming site that takese any romour without double-checking it. Beyond that site, I really can’t find any other source that claims that a new episode will air next week, so I really wonder where they got that info from.

  26. I share your think, it’s not an official site, take this informatio nwith care, but like me you saw the preview of the next episode in the ending?

  27. Pook says:

    What happened to Masao, is he dead? Didn’t see him in the finale. Maybe I missed something in the previous episodes.

  28. @Pook His sister killed him, but we didn’t see the scene.

  29. AKI says:

    @Pook, Yeah he was already killed by his sister, He was shown along with Nao and Shizuka as the dead when they’re burning. I was surprised to see that Natsuno’s dad survived, I thought he was a gone. I was also surprised when Kanami Yano boarded the bus, I thought she remained in her house to burn because her dead mother was, well, dead.

  30. Pook says:

    Yep, now I remember… I don’t know why I forgot this part ^^’, sorry.

  31. qwerty says:

    there is no way there is an episode 23 airing next week, this was designed to be a 22 episode series back when they took that extended break before the second half started.

    add on the fact that next week starts the new anime season and they wouldn’t be filling up a time slot to air another episode and have another series start late.

  32. Hot Taco says:

    Personally I wasn’t sure how to react to the ending itself. I’ll remember this series more for it’s success in creating a cast of characters, both shiki and human that you could empathize with, not to mention the fact that you ultimate have to decide which of the two groups was ever in the right. Series that force you to do this sort of thing have been hard to come by. Like I said I don’t know if I like the ending in particular, but the series was successful in many other ways, which I enjoyed greatly.

  33. Jeremy says:

    I loved the ending, it was so tragic. I love Ozaki’s reflection on how the whole conflict was maybe kind of pointless. I think Natsuno started the fire? Also, Seishin did die, he just rose up afterwards. He became a shiki or a jinrou I don’t know which. Afterall his eyes changed. I just loved loved loved this :D

  34. windy says:

    I don’t quite agree with the statement that the series made it so that the characters would not attract our sympathy, actually, for me it’s the first series with vampires in it where I really managed to get a grasp on their condition and sufferings, so yes I did feel sympathy for some of them, well, true, they were not that many, but the thing is most of those for whom I couldn’t gather much sympathy and compassion for where those who were turned into vampires during the series’ time slot, because they seemed to have called for what was coming to them: Megumi eager to live some exceptional adventure and despised just all the world around her, never seeing beyond her self-interests, Masao was a selfish scary dude that didn’t care much about anything but his own person, and so on. But those who really did well in attracting our sympathy were those who were vampires from the beginning (of the show), and they’re characters that have much screen time and are particularly shining during it (just what I felt, can’t speak for others): it was first Sunako ( who really showed the pathetic condition she had been put into years ago and stressed the fact that she never asked for it , and that killing others to survive was something she despised and didn’t do just for fun ( feeding yourself out of necessity does not equal brutally murdering, it’s just called surviving), then her step-mother also said something like “ it would be great if we didn’t have to kill in order to live”, that’s what made me look at her quite differently from that moment onward, with just those two characters we can’t say it’s just “a few of them” as they are ones of the main characters, then Tatsumi, at least his devotion to Sunako was really touching, and showed his good side, testifying of him not just being a blood-thirsted monster, Toru, was also one of the characters for whom I felt really sorry, as he was from the beginning till the end a good-natured human being, and when he felt to the underground world, he suffered very deeply from his new state and condition, and his conscience was just destroying his mind, Ritsuko, the green-haired nurse, even attracted admiration and highly due respect, she never lost to her new condition and managed to stay firm against her “destructive” starvation, thanks to her strong determination and will power that guided her along the way, Seishin was a character I felt really sorry for during the whole series, he looked really miserable and sad, just as if he were carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, experienced some tragedy , all along, then his will to remain true to what he believed in really made me admire him, it’s not like he tried to find an escape but rather to accept to accept the tragedies that build one’s fate, the two youngsters Akira and Kaori were characters we felt concerned for, all those make it a lot of characters that gathered sympathy from our side.

  35. windy says:

    Dynamic A: when you say “the Shiki were essentially serial killers who never TRIED anything but killing humans, and the villagers”, do you mean they had a choice, like maybe ask for human blood in hope that the others will just grant their wish and feed them periodically, because I don’t see many other alternatives.

  36. windy says:

    Carbuncle MIchales Jackson elliot: sooo glad to discover that I’m not the only one that actually liked Muroi and Sunako, so pleasant to have found someone that share my opinion about them!

  37. Aeon says:

    @WstWolf He didn’t get a chance to read your comment. Your comments were posted one minute from each other, and he was probably still typing out his long comment while you already posted yours.

  38. Dynamic A says:

    To windy: yes, there was a choice. If the vampire family had the sort of money to afford to buy such a lavish mansion in order to expand their group with eyes on penetrating into big cities to spread themselves, they certainly could have found ways to procure human blood outside of attacks. Aside from that, the manner in which they went about killing, with the aforementioned exceptions, showed just as much a disregard for humanity as the human villagers showed for them.

  39. rob says:

    I’m shocked that people actually like Sunako. She’s just a murderer who chose her own life over the countless lives she took. She’s already had about a hundred years to live, yet acts like she deserves more and keeps killing while playing the victim. Her years should have matured her to the point of knowing she was in the wrong. She didn’t even try other methods, like feeding on animals instead of people. Muroi was full of it when saying he and her were beyond Gods judgment to justify their evil acts. Both should have died, but now they’re probably going to do the same thing to another town of innocents. Sunako lost my pity when revealing how long she’s lived. How much more time and lives does she need until this selfish brat is finally satisfied?

  40. Ncrdrg says:

    What a finale.

    Too bad Muroi and Sunako weren’t slaughtered as well. Considering some very innocent Shiki were killed, seeing a big hypocritical traitor and the worst murderess of them all come out alive is a bit disappointing.

    Still, that was an amazing watch. It’s not everyday you see an anime end in such dramatic fashion.

    I’m eager to see the manga’s take on all of this.

  41. Whisperer says:

    wow, I just have to comment here. This …really has been one of the most amazing anime series ‘ve EVER seen, alongside greats like Samurai Champloo, Baccano! or Phantom : Requiem for the Phantom. The way the creators chose not to leave us with easy answers was a sign of masterful storytelling. At first, I thought that some of the people commenting on this board were right – why didn’t Shiki just choose not to eat humans, right?
    But didn’t they become aggresive beyond the point of sanity otherwise, like Toru in one episode? (can’t remember which)
    But then again, Ritsuko seems fine with choosing not to suck blood, and she doesn’t get aggresive…so maybe the original personality counts THAT MUCH and we’re back to “some are just jerks, some are just martyrs” ideology?

    Anyway, I just loved the ending. I don’t really know what to think about Sunako. Really mixed feelings about her. But I enjoyed seeing Megumi’s head get bashed by the tractor (AWESOME sendback to the first episode), I pitied Masao during the whole show (loved his character), found Toshio, Natsuno and epic beard-guy THE best anime characters (besides Yojou-han) of the year AND I nearly p***ed myself laughing at Tatsumi’s face when he saw Natsuno holding the dynamite.

    Again, amazing series. Thank you, Psgels, for taking the time to review this.

  42. windy says:

    Ritsuko was not fine; she withstood the suffering of resisting her excessive hunger, but we were shown how much the whole process was unbearable, and she almost gave in to her urges and would probably have if Toru wouldn’t have ( on her pleading request) freed the half-dressed nurse that was locked away for her to eat. And her determination and will power are much more stronger than the rest, so we can’t expect that much from someone who’s not that strong (it’s not about being cruel, just weaker , it’s just the same with people, some maybe would have withstood their hunger and just let themselves die ( but that would be just a small amount, as conditioning and state of mind differ from one person to the other, we definitely can’t expect for them all to be the “ martyrs”, it requires much more self –relinquishing that we could possibly imagine, and we can’t except something like this from a child even more.

  43. windy says:

    rob: Do you think it’s that easy to kill yourself? I think she’s afraid of death and cannot inflict it to herself that easily, suicide may be easy for some people, for others it’s something they’ll never be able to do, no matter the pain or despair they’re put into. I don’t think that she pretends to have the right to live more than the years she already lived, but as her state of mind remained the one of a child, she cannot escape of fears of dying or being murdered, it’s not because we have lived a hundred years, that we can jump from a building considering we’ve lived enough, it’s the whole process of letting oneself die that scary her, but her condition doesn’t please her whatsoever, and why would human beings justify the way they hunt animals to eat , while here when a species that stands over humans appear and hunt humans, it’s such a matter for discussion, humans are their FOOD. They have to live somehow, what they do, I don’t see that as any crueler than hunters who go hunting, knowing they can live on tomatoes and rice, actually the second appears more cruel to me, the shiki don’t have any other means of survival, humans in our century do. That’s why I don’t understand why it appears cruel to you all. From our standpoint it may look like it, but from theirs it’s definitely not. But one thing that I didn’t grasp, once the shiki would have changed the whole lot of villagers into shiki or corpses, what would they have done next, would they have attracted passers-by to provide them with blood, cause it would be certainly more convenient to stroll around the village, but they wouldn’t have any food left.

  44. Whisperer says:

    @windy, I saw the scenes between Toru and Ritsuko more like “Toru is trying to get this girl to commit sin so he can validate his own decisions”. Toru was the weak one, not her. Sure, you can analyze it all you want, but the bottom line is Toru gave in, Ritsuko didn’t. Different principles.
    Like Natsuno himself put it, the shiki started it first. Everything else is the humans reacting, the shiki reacting to a human chain-reaction, etc.

    Of course, the humans are mostly hypocrites, like epic beard-guy shouting about rules to Sunako when he himself killed the hypnotized people, but he wouldn’t have had to resort to that if it weren’t for the shiki stealth-game. And let’s face it, Seishin’s parents & innocent temple people dying is a result of his own refusal to act. Seishin was a tragic “hero”, but his story was nihilism at its best : he was so afraid to act because he didn’t want to face the consequences. In the end he got innocent people killed because of that and he acted twice, once to save himself and once to save Sunako, becoming a double-killer (according to his own life views, because he still isn’t a “killer” to me).

  45. windy says:

    I never said that Ritsuko was weak; I said she was, on the opposite, the strongest character of the show, and I emphasized it, as she has the determination and willpower to resist her hunger!!! The weak one, I thought I made it clear in my comment, is of course and without a doubt Toru (I just said he was good-natured but also very weak, actually I saw him as the weakest character of the series!) I just said he was not evil but definitely weak, I completely agree with that and I exposed all this in my comment, you just misunderstood it. Where in my comment did you read that I called RITSUKO weak?! Come on, it’s the strongest character of the whole series, and I said that I admired that willpower and self-sacrifice of hers, and that not many people if faced with the same circumstances would react in the same admirable way. I hope now all is clear!

  46. windy says:

    And also to all those who claim that Seishin didn’t act, what do you mean, he should have taken arms and turned the village upside down to eliminate each and every shiki he ambushes. I don’t think that true action is necessarily something you do with your hands, but maybe more something you think out well and tend to follow, he wasn’t inactive or useless during the series, but his actions were those of his heart and soul, his mind was always at work and would think everything through and analyzing it, for me, he’s one of those characters who shined by his spiritual conception oh what was happening around him, he took action, but he did according to his own beliefs and ideals, and not just so he could merge in with the flow of villagers going on a rampage against the shiki and slaughtering them without an ounce of mercy. Actually, his actions were not devoid of meaning but were quite effective in their own way, not the slightest bit more inconsistent that those of the villagers, what those did, they took their weapons and slaughtered as much as they could, spilled and spilled again blood, becoming even more frightening that the shiki they feared.

  47. Iryne says:

    I really wished Sunako and Seishin would just stay inside the burning chapel/church. Sotoba is rotten and it was the Shiki’s who brought it out. The instigator was Sunako. When I saw Seishin drove away into the National Highway that finality feeling is lost.

    Also Natsuno should have gotten more screentime. He played a vital role in the Shiki’s extermanation… but at the end his inclusion seems almost like an afterthought. Pity.

  48. Nayrael says:

    Animators didn’t want to screw up by giving him too much anime-original screentime… and we all know how it ends when you are too enthusiastic with fillers.

    (anime took Light Novel ending and in Light novels, Natsuno stayed dead. Manga, which turned him into a Shiki, will probably give him a better role later on)

  49. Whisperer says:

    windy, I am saying that I pretty much agree with Toshio re: the line “A stupid decision, worthy of Seishin”. Seishin blabbers on and on about the “intent to kill”, but when it counts, he completely realises that somehow, his siding with Sunako could count (even by his standards) as intent to kill towards the villagers.
    And “true action”? He pretty much did nothing except talking to Sunako at night and refusing to agree with everything Toshio said during the day. Not to mention the pivotal scene where Toshio, his old friend, calls him to help him clean up his wife’s “remains”. He fails to see Toshio as a man who’s sacrificed so much for everyone’s sake (albeit for revenge as well, crossing the moral event horizon), and just…turns around and leaves, looking like he had a BSOD. Yes, I know Toshio’s wife was “new” and she had no knowledge of the “rules”, but it’s not murder if there’s no LIVING being, and that thing on the table WASN’T his loved one anymore. I find THAT lesson a valuable one if the zombie/vampire/blah apocalypse ever comes. Without people like Toshio, humanity would be wiped out. Sometimes, you have to act against your principles. The rest is just…talk.

  50. windy says:

    Seishin didn’t help Toshio because he was against the whole idea of the massacre, why would he help his friend doing something that is the fruit and right consequence of it. I don’t picture someone who’s against those killings, just swiftly obey his friend whose behaviors he sees as pointless and outrageous and help him in his machinations, which would make him look like a hypocrite of his own ideals. But, well, something that also has to be taken into consideration is that Seishin wanted to free himself of his fate as a monk at the villagers’ service, and for once he managed to return his sleeves and choose his own destiny, and that alone is action enough. But well, , maybe his decision was also influenced by his grudge against the villagers, that’s quite possible, his character is more complex than what it looks like anyway, it would have been great to read those novels, maybe some complementary answers could be found about all this. Oh, and well, for the “living” part you’re mentioning, you have to admit that first they can’t be considered as dead; they didn’t become corpses and second they have red blood in their veins and most of all a mind and a brain that is working and they also susceptible of feeling emotions ( remember Sunako when she cried over Shizuru’s tragic ending), all this makes them more than just a bunch of soul-less corpses, that’s why it is murder even if this notion may seem not to apply to the case, it’s definitely is, considering it otherwise is just a way to deturn from the despicable truth.

  51. mousoukyoku says:

    What’s shown in the ending is not an actual preview. This time the Japanese beneath only means ‘A few days later’. As much as I liked the ending and the series as a whole I’m still looking forward to those DVD specials though.

  52. rob says:

    Windy:cowardice doesn’t justify one’s actions. Sunako was scared of dying and took countless lives as a result. She is in no way correct. Death is all a monster like that deserves. Btw how is there no other alternative for food? The shiki can’t try getting blood from animals? If that wasn’t possible, they could at least resort to feeding once off a person and then traveling somewhere else, or even take blood from a blood bank. It would certainly be inconvenient, but that’s better than being a murderer. You say humans are crueler since they don’t need to eat meat, but at least some are willing to be vegeterians. The shiki didn’t even try. There wasn’t one instance of them thinking they could survive off the blood of something other than human.

  53. windy says:

    You speak about murder, but for the shiki killing humans is not considered as murder. The same way that humans who kill animals don’t think they committed murder, that’s why our views diverge I guess. You speak about murder, it’s a term people use to define the killing of those who stand on an equal footing with them, if not the humans who kill other species are also murderers and those who take profit of it are just the same. If the shiki were killing their own kind, then that would be murder and condemned, but they actually care for their kind and community, Sunako did, that doesn’t make her a monster, human people care in the same way for their community, and if they found themselves on an isolated island with no other means of survival than to hunt, some would not, but the great majority of the people concerned would take their weapons and hunt for their own good, not thinking one second – that it’s something that should be highly condemned and that their moral principles should lead them towards the way of starvation. But ironically, the view people generally have is way different: they would rather take them for heroes who managed to remain alive and those would be filled with a feeling of satisfaction to have survived. It is the same for the shiki and humans, it’s not murder as humans are inferior to them (as they eat them, and no, I don’t even think they could eat other species, I think that’s a newly provided version of vampires who can live on animal blood, originally that was not the case, but this could also be considered as murder, as humans – or other animals, they would all stand at the same line of the alimentary chain, so what difference would it make to them? That’s why I don’t really understand your views on Sunako. And she’s not a coward, she has the mind of, okay not that little, but still of a little girl, and it is quite normal for children to fear death without them being considered as cowards, one of humans’ primitive instincts. But one thing is certain is that Sunako was once a human, so yes, it must have been difficult for her to kill them at first, but then she reached the stage where compassion can no more be admitted if not “ then you should hate and kill yourself”, if she was filled with the feeling of remorse each time she had to kill some people she wouldn’t have survived for that long, I think that’s one of her qualities Tatsumi admired the most, her perseverance to go forward and not fade away and not just to resign herself and die.

  54. Invitan says:

    People, the reason why the shikis did not go to a big city and only suck blood from people instead of killing them is because Sunako wanted to turn an entire secluded town into a town of shikis. Sunako wanted company – that’s all. She wanted to walk in the town freely without having to caution against others. For her own selfish reason, she resorted to commit massacre of the humans, while actually she did not have to go that far to survive. In the end, she was no more than a hypocritical murderer, and I agree that she shouldn’t have survived.

  55. Dynamic A says:

    Philosophically, mentally, and morally, there is a huge difference between killing animals for food and killing humans.

    If an intelligent, sentient alien species with culture, emotions, rationality, etc landed on this planet and just so happened to taste delicious when slathered in BBQ sauce and popped on the barbie, it would be wrong to eat them.

    I know you may argue that the above point is a strawman, but consider that in vampire literature since Stoker there have been numerous examples of vampire subcultures and groups that found other means to attain human blood to sate their uncontrollable hunger aside from murder. A group with as many seeming connections as Sunako’s certainly could have tried other avenues, but for their own, very SELFISH reasons, they chose to massacre, manipulate, and depopulate an entire village of people.

    -DA

  56. windy says:

    Yes, completely right, Sunako wanted company, to forget her loneliness. Shizuru also wanted a village where they could be “at home”, they could walk around freely and have fun, without standing out, just among other shiki ( also that will transformed into it for that purpose, those who will be the “ chosen ones”), completely agree that they moved into the village not only for getting fresh blood, Sunako wanted more company and friends, comrades and allies.

  57. windy says:

    But I disagree with the rest, and it’s just humans’ subjective thoughts, that human community and society established: that to murdering human beings is a sin, from a more objective perspective, nothing makes stands us apart from animals ( just because human people has a more developed brain doesn’t make them untouchable god-like species) I mean in our society, what you stated above is totally true and I agree with that but it’s just a universal principle because we never experienced some other laws that could have been established and torn down ours . We only know it because humanity established that inviolable rule and carved it into stone, but for any other community that would elevate themselves above us, that’s completely irrelevant and meaningless. But well the great thing with that series is that everyone sees it differently, and I can see what you mean even if my view on the matter differs.

  58. windy says:

    But I guess some of us stand out for Sunako because she mesmerized us with her vampire spell!
    I mean if everything she said was just an act, then we fell right into her snare, but I don’t know why, but I believe that everything she said was true, that everything she said to Tooru or Muroi san were her genuine feelings and not just self-justification or made up story, and what I heard from her story really made me see her with different eyes and sympathize with her, like that innocent side of her personality and feel really sorry for her ( despite everything she did or more appropriately “planned”, as she organized the whole strategy behind the curtains), and no she didn’t deserve to die, that’s what I think at least, and I was glad to see she didn’t ( I guess the author who wrote the story ( I guess it followed the original story, isn’t it? If it was the anime-original ending, then “the creators”), also couldn’t bring himself (themselves?) to inflict to her a tragic ending!)

  59. Cher says:

    or just because she’s a loli. The stupid priest falls into a loli trap. The same goes to many viewers.

    Seriously, her ending is stupid.

    But more stupid is people who think that killing pigs is the same as killing human.

  60. Alex says:

    Urgh whenever I read windy’s comments I get more and more confused about what he/she perceives. All I see is “blah blah blah I’m right cause my view is always correct” -_-

    Personally I do think that Sunako is somewhat pitiable, but that does not justify her actions. Sure, she’s a child, but it is only her body that is a child’s. Her mind has obviously fully matured (her try-to-act-emo-and-poetic way of speaking is very telling) and she has lived longer than any wise human being. What I disliked about her is that she does not show any signs of regret. I mean, c’mon, it shows how much of a self-centered bitch she is! She always says that she doesn’t want to kill people but in the end it’s really all about herself and that she wants to live. IMO she didn’t deserve to live. Dying is obviously a scary thought, I don’t deny, anyone would be scared shitless at the thought of a stake being driven through their heart, but we are all human right? As humans,wouldn’t you be afraid of a vampire raid? Losing your loved ones one by one. Isn’t that scary? Nao-chan’s scenario told us that it was all very cruel. She killed her family in promise that they would rise up and become one of them, but they didn’t rise, so all those deaths were for nothing. She became a murderer, there and then. And it’s all for her own selfish desire to convert her entire family into Shikis to join her. Just like what Sunako intended to do to the whole village of “nakama”(s)

    I agree with Natsu when he said that what he did not like was the fact that shiki did as they pleased, reviving people and claiming them as their own kind. SELFISH BITCHES! The okiagari villagers were coerced to consent feeding on their friends and neighbours, in which Tatsumi justified their actions as survival. If they didn’t follow suit, they wouldn’t fit in anywhere! Even Megumi (whom is everyone’s biggest enemy O.O) expressed her desire for freedom from the Kirishikis. Before her big escape she exclaimed, “I no longer have a master” while looking at the Kirishiki’s mansion. Sunako wasn’t creating a village man, she was creating a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE! Kiddin. But IMO, it just isn’t right. (Poor Toru and Rit-chan)

    What the villagers did was not right, but in a way it was retaliation. What, would it be better if they lined up and let the shiki kill them off one by one? Sure, they were cruel blahblahblah. But it was just the shiki extermination scenes that were epic gory. If there was an easier was to kill shiki, say something like french kissing them would put them to a painless sleep, I’m sure that the humans would have done so. All the talk about them being too brutal, bullshit, its called SURVIVAL. The shikis killed the humans to survive, so humans kill shikis to survive. Now, what’s wrong with the picture?

    ** Oh and I agree that Muroi was just an emo bastard who was utterly useless. Poetic my ass. He was fosure emo!

  61. Potato says:

    It so heat up here…

    I do agree that whatever reasons are, they do not justified for the Shikis’ action of killing people (including Sunako). After all, it is a matter of choice. Everyone makes their choice and he/she should take full responsibility to his/her choice.

    I do agree this is all about the battle of survival, but it is for either the Shikis and the human.
    Many people say that they should suck animal blood. However, isn’t the point here they will die without human blood? Try to steal blood from the blood bank? Common guy, it is not that easy. The security of all blood bank would increase to catch the thieves, will it not?

    I do agree with Sunako is so selfish, but I disagree with the fact that she is an adult.

    Sunako is a child, both physical and mental. Once she stopped aging, her physical body (of course including the brain) would stop growing. Living a long life and reading tons of book can not make her brain develop into the full mature brain of a adult. And so, I agree with what Windy talk about Sunako.

    Finally, I do believe everyone in this anime deserve a chance to life, not death.

  62. windy says:

    Alex: For one, I didn’t say my view was right, I just exposed my opinion on the matter, and I also said that the most amazing thing with this series is that it is up to everyone to interpret it as they see fit. My intention was definitely not to preach some sermons on the matter, and it up to your own judgment to interpret it one or another way, I didn’t impose my views just defended them. I also said that I did understand other points on this subject. I also didn’t really like the way Tatsumi was manipulating the villagers (probably on Sunako’s orders, but I somehow got the impression that it was Tatsumi’s own way of dealing with things, but I guess it was for her orders as he complied with one and every of her command), once they were just turned into shiki, it was an awful act of emotional manipulation, and the way they were forced to attack the people they were close to ( Tooru was forced to attack Natsuno for not letting his own family die), actually I found it quite terrible and disturbing in its own way, even Megumi’s feelings for Natsuno( the only thing that made me sympathize with her) were used to manipulate her for their own benefits and needs, and I don’t advocate it. I just somehow tried to understand their side and managed in doing so, because well, just what I think eh, just like human community wants to expand and build out a village, the same goes for them, actually after years of solitude, it is quite normal for them to wish for more company and friends, because humans also tend to organize their lives in a community and not just live alone on an isolated from the whole social world place. I think they longed for it to, and I don’t think we have the right to judge them as monsters just because their own established laws or principles don’t correspond to our way of viewing things (transposed in the same situation, we don’t actually know what we would have become, human morals don’t really apply here, but yet again it is just one way of seeing things, not an absolute truth whatsoever. I see their actions as a way of surviving both concretely by drinking human’s blood, and also surviving to their unjust state of loneliness, rejection and abandonment. I don’t think that we’re in any position to judge them without ever experiencing what they have experienced for more than a hundred years!!! We also don’t know anything about those years and what happened in details (I mean we could interpret that as we want), they could have tried to be accepted by humans, could have tried to seek other means of survival than sucking human’s blood ( I guess they had plenty of time for that and don’t think they’re so stupid!), actually we know really little about them ( too little) to direct any sharp judgment, that’s how I see it. And totally agree with Potato, that what was mentioned above on what they could do other than attacking humans is not just as simple as it seems, firstly because even if they’re rich, they don’t have the control over the human world to provide them with any blood they need from the blood bank, secondly I don’t think that the human people would agree on sharing their blood with others ( some would of course but others may not have agreed on that, sometimes humans can be just as selfish, besides there’s also the question of solitude that is not to be excluded). Also agree with Potato that it is the battle for survival for both sides, and everyone does things according to their own principles, feelings and choices, as well as with the fact that Sunako is selfish, I don’t say otherwise (but what would you expect from a rich ojo-sama raised in a wealthy western-styled mansion with her parents and servants to comply with every of her whims or needs! She’s quite ego-centric indeed! But also yes, immature in her mind, as it didn’t develop past the stage it was in where her former self was obliterated to give way to her present state.

  63. windy says:

    And also well said Potato, that “everyone in this anime deserves a chance to live”, that’s exactly what I think too.

  64. Afrim says:

    I don’t know if I’ve been so frustrated with an anime, well this episode specifically. THAT STAKE SHOULD HAVE GONE INSIDE SUNAKO. But no, that shiki helper, Muroi, goes and ruins the ending. It was so dissapointing that he kills the man about to finish off Sunako.

    And even prior to that, this man kills Muroi’s family because he thinks they’re collaborators? That was too much. I know it got a bit crazy, but the villagers didn’t lose it completely to kill off innocent women and whatnot.

    Not to mention, that the ending where a vampire in a suitcase is being escorted by a human is not the first one I’ve seen.

    Sunako should have been killed, or should have decided to stay in that fire and die, or maybe join the jinro’s in that pit.

  65. Tony says:

    I’m interested by the intensity of the feelings this series aroused, and I’d like to give my own point of view on it.

    First of all, I think that if we want to take the story seriously at all, we must be able to feel some sympathy for the situation of the shiki, and we must be willing to see moral dilemmas both in what the shiki must do to survive, and what the townspeople who are still alive must do to survive. It is clear that the story asks us to do both of these things. We can simply reject the story completely, and say that it has failed to make a convincing case for these basic points; but then there is no point in arguing about what should or should not happen; we are simply saying that the story is not coherent enough to be worth thinking about.

    For that reason, I feel that inventing “nice” alternative ways for the shiki to survive is evading the issue. The story may or may not have made a strong enough case for this, but we are clearly intended to accept as a premise that the shiki must kill in order to survive. If we don’t accept this premise, then the story is a kind of gratuitous exercise in horror, with little to distinguish it from a slasher film whose only purpose is to frighten us.

    Similarly, if we feel that no matter what choices they face, the shiki must simply reject killing humans because it is evil, and any of them who fail to do so are not worthy of any consideration, then the story has failed for us. Its main distinction from other stories of the undead is that the undead do retain their personality characteristics from their previous life, unlike the mindless killers the undead become in most zombie stories. Tooru is obviously intended to be a likable character when alive, so if we simply dismiss him by condemning his weakness and saying that he should be as strong as Ritsuko once he is undead, we are refusing to take the story seriously.

    Finally, if we refuse to accept the possibility of the humans becoming an unattractive, bloodthirsty mob in the process of stopping the shiki from killing them off, then we are evading the point of the story. I have to admit I found the exaggerated bloodthirstiness unconvincing and manipulative; the shiki could as easily have been killed by forcing them to remain exposed to daylight, or by using the power that religious artifacts have over them. One can argue that the stakes were actually a form of kindness, since they killed quickly rather than subjecting the shiki to an extended and very painful death from exposure to light, and I think this was the intent of the author; but all that gore splashing around still feels manipulative to me. Once again, however, if one is to take the story seriously at all, one must accept the gore as necessary.

    There is one element of the story which I am surprised no one has mentioned: the Cain and Abel story Seishin is writing, and the attempts of the author to draw parallels to this story. One can dismiss this as pretentious window-dressing, with no real substance; but it seems to me that if we do not take it seriously, then we are again rejecting the story completely.

    This is already far too long, so I won’t add my own personal interpretations of what moral choices the author is asking us to come to grips with. I would be interested, though, in other people who have written comments here starting with these basic assumptions and seeing what they make of the story if we give it the benefit of the doubt and accept them as premises.

  66. windy says:

    I’ve also come to realize somehow that the story Seishin was writing echoed with the main story of the series, however I’m not so sure of the interpretations that could be made out of it, first I tried to lay a comparison between Seishin and Toshio, the divergence in the choices they made seemed to be somehow the result of their contrasting feelings about what’s happening and the means to employ in order to bring the chaotic situation to an end. But then, Seishin started to talk about how the brother Cain actually killed was no one else but himself, what I would be inclined to think is that he was talking about his own attitude towards life, fate and the condition of a human being, split apart between the duties that have been bestowed upon him and his desire to break those chains, and in order to break free he has to kill his former self, as if he doesn’t, he will be forced to remain a prisoner of his own existence, that may be why it is looked as a necessity of “survival”, a survival in accordance with his beliefs and choices. But we may also look at it from a religious standpoint, as in mythology , Cain was also forced to follow the instructions of God, and live according to God’s rules (and not feel any jealousy for his brother Abel), never taking into account his own emotions or feelings, denying and rejecting them ( here, Seishin is also a priest, was forced to be according to rules and customs of his family, he had to follow his tasks ( and obeying God, without God ever replying to his prayers, and he must have been extremely despaired at one point of his life if he tried to put an end to his own life, Sunako was rejected the same way, even if she didn’t desire to become a creature of the night, she was forced into it and God never answered any of her prayers , and rejected her, that’s what may have made Seishin realize that in our life we have to live ourselves and help ourselves without relying on Divine providence that supposedly is to be listen and obeyed but actually can do nothing in the existence we lead, cannot change the conditions of our existence or protect us from the external world we live in. Then again, there must be an infinite variety of interpretations for that story.

  67. Immelman says:

    All your comments are very long. To make things short, there’s only one thing the author wants to say: humans are self centered, and bad by nature. As Tonio said, shikis kept their memories and human nature, they aren’t just some brainless zombies. They are human, undead but human. You can replace the villagers by Palestinians and the Israeli by shikis. You can empathize with both side, both have valuable arguments, but they can’t coexist because they have opposite way of living. That’s what humans are.

  68. Kat says:

    Yes, that’s rights. The point is to show the cruel game that has been played over and over again. No right or wrong. The groups didn’t mix and there is was no way to resolve it. Anyways eating meat and fish does seem cruel. Eating veggie is too. Oh just because they have no nerves ( or do they), it is okay to rip leaves off of plants to eat. But well every living thing deserves to survive. Another message in this is to take what you need and be a little more compassionate. Lions kill each other for territory. We people just have more power. We can do more harm than other animals. We need to show restraint, or end up like the shiki ( that’s being harsh but yeah).

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Topgavin
Honestly though there's been a real lacking of good villains last year. I hear some guy from Jojo was pretty good, but other than that they've either been okay or lackluster. Makes you wonder how FMA:B managed to get so many villians right in so many ways when shows usually fail to get even 1 half as good.
Topgavin
@Supermario Biba or Teacher-dude from Erased surely...
SuperMario
Maybe we should include the best villain next time, haha. I honestly don't know who to pick...
SuperMario
oh Rem, that demon girl who tried to kill Subaru many times over. Why is she the best girl again?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I watched Moonlight last night in cinema and it was great. I had high expectation for that and it pretty much delivered. Also Janelle Monae was so freaking hot.
SuperMario
OMG, that 3rd episode of Rakugo was so greattttt. @Lenlo: don't need to understand the meaning of the rant thou, Yotaro doesn't understand either
Kaiser Eoghan
Think of the fine children/breeding stock Aidan and rem would offspring =P
Kaiser Eoghan
Dye their hair, make things confusing ;)
AidanAK47
@Anon, hahahaha, cool joke bro.....
...............................Don't make me destroy you.
Lenlo
The one with red hair of course
Anonymous765953
rem? who's that?
Lenlo
Having read the books, theres afew inconsistencies and I dont like some of the choices for actors.
Kaiser Eoghan
*couldn't
Kaiser Eoghan
Buh buh but Aiiiidan you still have the koe no katachi movie and thaaats kyoani =P But lol phantom world was so poor I couldn't get past the second episode. A shame that they could go with the darker spin the author ended up apparently going for in later volumes.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I am currently eh on it as well. Only at the second episode so far. I find it interesting but it has a lot of things that turn me off.
Lenlo
7 YEARS I SAT ON THAT BOAT!

Still havnt finished Flip Flappers. I like it, its pretty, each episode is different, but I can barely tell what the over-arching narrative is and thats a big deal to me
Lenlo
ITS REAL
Lenlo
BOAT TIER
Lenlo
@Aidan, Series of Unfortunate Events was eh. I wasnt a big fan of the TV adaptation, though I did like Neil Patrick Harris
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: BOAT TIER lmao.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats why I LOVED flippflappers so much, where else can I get THAT anywhere, totally its own thing/beast.
Lenlo
My big ones for the year were easily Rakugo and Re:Zero. Disappointments, biggest one is Berserk. Ive been following it for years, have the entire series on my shelf, and I watched it like a captain going down with his ship
Kaiser Eoghan
At the same time well, yes its still good to see a non-highschool story in ANYTHING.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, you see I don't really award points to an anime doing something unique to anime, I judge by all mediums as a group/whole. 91 days may be a mafia drama, kabaneri may be a zombie show but theres already plenty of those in the world elsewhere.
Kaiser Eoghan
I could see myself getting some oldskool charm out of alderman if I watched it. I was waiting for yuri on ice to be dubbed. Drifters for all its problems was some of the most fun I've had in ages.
Kaiser Eoghan
The only thing I saw that I truly abhorred though was the new shinkai film.
Kaiser Eoghan
Most of the other stuff I didn't really bother watching. Its pointless for me to shit on about 91 days and re:zero because I was guaranteed to dislike both before seeing either.
Kaiser Eoghan
Biggest disappointments for me were erased , berserk and joker game. Whereas my surprise was lost passage. My favourites of the year were flippflappers and Rakugo. I wanted Kabaneri and dimesion w to save anime and bring back some oldskool charm but that didn't happen.
AidanAK47
Alright I spent over an hour formatting this thing and now I am knackered. Readers, this summery is over 23 pages long so be prepared as this thing is pretty huge. Don't say you were not warned.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Watch it. I bet it will be up your alley.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats a problem with adaptations, put a voice on certain characters and it can become irritating.
Kaiser Eoghan
And to be fair on scums wish, that it deals with the sex bit in a teen story, well that makes it more daring and thats points for it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Largely stayed away from that series as I assumed it was for young children.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Additionally the relationships in that manga got too convoluted, the comedy stands out worse in the anime too. Still though I DO dig the idea behind the show of two kids who are in a fake relationship.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, you think that's hard to watch try watching Netflix's A series of unfortunate events. Because boy do I want to brutally murder the banker and his family. That may sound severe to you but trust me, you will feel likewise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You were right about it being harder to watch scums wish than read it. I want to hit the twin tails girl with a hatchet.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm laughing now remembering an old ANN review where they stated golgo 13 was a stress reliever for 30 something Japanese office workers, I get that so much more now lol
Kaiser Eoghan
But seriously violence in fiction, anime/manga included is so damn therapeutic.
Kaiser Eoghan
As such I genuinely was able to enjoy the new M night shaylman flick lol
Kaiser Eoghan
Venting here largely because I can, I now imagine the teenage/twenty something audience members at horror/thriller films as the victims in the films, makes it more tolerable to deal with their existence in the cinema.
Lenlo
I cant help but feel theres some cultural aspect I am missing to the Rakugo rant scene. Makes me sad.
Lenlo
Rakugo, continues to be great and gets another time skip. Im always surprised by how engrossing it is just listening to these people talk.
Lenlo
Makes me sad, just like Berserk. Got an entire shelf dedicated to it but its just so slow. stupid boat.
Lenlo
Vagabond was phenomenal, but its been on hiatus for years now hasnt it
Kaiser Eoghan
....well without spoiling towards the middle of that rakugo episode and all throughout during that middle part, my opinion on Yotaro's character went far up.
Kaiser Eoghan
Struggling to remember the name of that josei samurai manga from the 90s (or earlier 2000s), had a gender bending theme.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've already read kenshin and vagabond, I loved shigurui death frenzy and sword of the stranger but found samurai champloo uneven. Theres a kagemusha manga but I haven't read it and I've yet to see/read blade of the immortal.
Kaiser Eoghan
At a glance I'll go against the grain and say I think demi-chan is funnier than konosuba, going on one episode of each.
I've been watching a fare share of samurai films in the last two years and lately so I'm open to wathing more anime/reading manga dealing with samurai.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
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