Posted by psgels on 19 February 2011 with categories: Anime Reviews





So, I watch a lot of anime. With this, I’m only two reviews away from my 700th review on this site, and I really try to watch as much anime as possible. So with that in mind, I do not make the following statement lightly: Gankutsuou is my favourite series of all of the anime I’ve watched during the past year and a half, and perhaps even longer. It’s often referred to as one of Gonzo’s masterpieces, and I wholeheartedly agree. This is everything that I look for in an anime, and then some.

Good Gonzo has always stood out with how damn innovating they kept trying to be. Gankutsuou is a fantastic example of this, but that’s far from everything about this series. Aside from being consistently experimental, it’s also extremely well executed.

I have not read the story of the original Count of Monte Cristo, but regardless, the creators did a fantastic job of converting it into a story that fits perfectly into 24 episodes. They took the entire setting and turned it into a futuristic setting that at the same time retained the atmosphere of France of more than two hundred years and the aristocratic culture of the days before the french revolution. It’s completely fiction and even through the weird graphics style, it feels strangely authentic. The setting here is really solid, and yet it’s the part of this show that impressed me the least.

Instead, we have some fantastic acting from the cast of characters that really brings them to life. There is a ton of character development in this series, and the creators even managed to make an often whining teenaged lead into a compelling character (though granted, before his development he does not stand out as the strongest member of this cast). The characters in this series all have a ton of flaws, and this series uses those brilliantly. The entire plot weaves together all of the different characters and their backstories, and just about everyone gets his or her moment to really show off his or her character.

And the way in which this is done was a really emotionally resonating one. This series knows exactly when to be subtle, and when to release all brakes and go over the top. The delivery in this is just perfect, with creative poses and animation in which a lot his happening at the same time, yet the story remains focused on what it wants to show. It’s really well shown with a lot of detail in how the characters are reacting to each other.

And as for the graphics… they’re some of the best you can get if you don’t mind the intrusive CG. This series is full of excellent visual ideas. I mean, just about every shot is absolutely gorgeous and it’s ridiculous how creative the visuals can get. The creators really tried to stuff a ton of ideas into the visuals here, as long as they all fitted into the story. The result is a show that looks absolutely unlike anything else. The animation itself isn’t the most consistent, but when it delivers, it really delivers some amazing and hard hitting inbetween animation that combines perfectly with the storytelling. Gankutusou really was a show in which Gonzo could show off what it was able to do with its CG, and while this show is obviously heavy on the CG, it doesn’t feel out of place. Instead, the graphics create this gorgeous whole.

Overall, I found this series one heck of a ride, and Gankutsuou is very likely going to end up in my top 20 favourite anime, somewhere between #15 and #20. I absolutely adore these kinds of series that can get a huge emotional response out of me. It’s obviously not a show for everyone (and I did hear that this anime changed a ton of stuff from the original novel), but to me, Gankutusou took a while to build up, but as soon as it hit its stride just about everything fitted together perfectly.

Storytelling: 10/10 – Wonderfully paced and balanced, just about every episode significantly advances the plot and comes with new developments that are delivered strongly, knowing exactly when to be subtle and when to be over the top, all culimnating into an amazing ending.
Characters: 9/10 – Excellent dialogue and acting with really dynamic characters. There are a few stereotypes like the angsty male lead, but even he is portrayed and developed wonderfully.
Production-Values: 10/10 – Unique. Stuffed with tons of visual ideas, both in terms of art and animation.
Setting: 9/10 – Takes France of centuries ago, and successfully transforms it into something futuristic and unique while still remaining authentic.

Suggestions:
Les Miserables – Shoujo Cosette
Mahou Shoujotai
Casshern Sins

42 Responses

  1. Lol, with the number of screenshots you included we practically don’t need to read the review since it’s clear you loved the show. And isn’t this your second highest review or such, I can’t remember the last time I saw you give something a 95.

  2. psgels psgels says:

    Aah, that with the images was a bit overkill yeah. I reduced it to only eight screenshots now. ^^;

    It’s indeed been a long while since I handed 95/100 to a series, the last time I did that was in 2009 with Strange Dawn and Birdy the Mighty Decode 02.

    I have handed this rating in the past to a few more series, though. Like Simoun, The Third, Bokurano, Kaiba and Utena.

  3. Vanilla says:

    You have no idea how happy this review made me. After I first watched it some months ago, I wondered why you hadn’t covered such an amazing anime, but I figured you would get to it. And I’m glad you enjoyed it so much!

    Keep up the good work.

  4. Firechick says:

    Whoa! 95/100!? I sure didn’t expect that! But we’re glad you liked it since practically everyone else does (forgive me since, alas, I have not watched it)! Now all that’s left for you to review is Futatsu no Spica (before you get to shows like Princess Tutu, Marco TV, Galactic Heroes, Rose of Versailles, etc.).

  5. Tsuki says:

    Gankutsuou has some really awesome characterization and a great story, so I had no doubt that psgels would like this series. A 95/100 though? I haven’t seen you give one of those out in ages o.o;

    Gonzo has it’s few great series. It’s series such as Gankutsuou, Last Exile, and Welcome to the NHK that make me glad that Gonzo is starting back up this summer with the new Last Exile series.

  6. Janette says:

    How I stumbled upon this series was I found the Genon release at my library. I checked it out to tease my sister, as she had just finished Count of Monte Cristo, and I expected it to be pretty bad.

    Boy was I wrong.

  7. brianwuzhere says:

    This is pretty close on my To Watch List, but now, I really have to watch this.

  8. Immelman says:

    Fantastic anime. I think it’s enough close from the book (I’m French), execpt the futurist setting obviously.
    The piano concert scene is engraved in my mind. That’s why gonzo stays as one of my top three studios.

  9. Phelps says:

    Gankutsuou made a lot of changes to the story, but it’s still more faithful to the book than most TV and movie adaptations I saw.

    The ending in particular is very different, but I think it fits the story better than the original ending.

  10. dm00 says:

    Yes, despite the liberties they took, the series is remarkably faithful to the book. Inspired by the anime, I read the book (despite its length, it is wonderful). Gankutsuou is a magnificent series, one of anime’s best.

  11. Chris says:

    Can’t believe you didn’t mention Haydee’s dress in the opera episode! That was one of the most beautiful CG scenes I’ve seen in like… anything.

  12. Loz says:

    Gankutsuou is an example of anime storytelling at its best, and why I regard it so highly too. Glad you enjoyed it, and as always looking forward to more of your reviews. :)

  13. Lia says:

    I love Gankutsuou! I’m glad you enjoyed it as well. I was wondering when you would get around to watching this show since it is fantastic. Once the show got past the first few episodes I was literally glued to my seat the whole way through the series.

  14. synkronized says:

    Glad you watched and enjoyed this series. This anime is arguably what made me see anime as something more than DBZ, Bleach and Naruto kids cartoons. The artwork, characters and story really show what anime is capable of.

  15. Judoh says:

    You can’t give Cowboy Bebop 90/100 and than give this 95. You’re crazy!

    This is a good show but no way is it better than Cowboy Bebop. I think you just got over excited because the latest anime seasons’ have been lacking in a mature/experimental show like this.

    • Rayan says:

      There are some anime which are a lot shorter than the legendary ones like Bebop, and are even underrated. Examples are ‘Steins Gate’ and ‘Shiki’, and this one too. You could also try Makoto Shinkai’s ‘Garden of Words’. They leave such an amazing impact that they tend to get higher scores based on the moment’s impression, and may not be able to keep up in the long run with legends like Bebop, FMAB, Bleach or FT, Naruto etc. But these in their own right are unique. Gankutsuou is one such anime. Kindly don’t compare it with the biggies.

  16. ultama121 says:

    Holy shit, you really did love it. That’s three people I know that have loved it so much. I gotta move this up higher on my list. :V

    Also, Judoh:
    I regret to inform you that Cowboy Bebop is not the invincible anime that cannot be beaten. Sorry.

  17. Janette says:

    Yes, yes it is better then Bebop. It does many things that although Bebop did well, it does better and with more maturity.

  18. Judoh says:

    @ultama121
    There is nothing invincible about Cowboy Bebop. I never said that, Although it’s influence is far superior and over reaching than Gankutsuou.

    Gankutsuou is an underrated classic but it’s never in the top 10/20 lists on AnimeNewsNetwork or in Newtype magazine( or anywhere really) which are popular anime forums.
    That is reserved for things like Evangelion, Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Alchemist, Gundam ectera.

    Please don’t get nice visuals confused with a great anime. It’s the same as psgels giving Casshern Sins 90/100; the same as Bebop. That anime is terrible. Once again nice visuals, great first 12 episodes but then morphs into this tedious cliched viewing experience.

    95 is too close to 100. Which as psgels said is the perfect anime, which he is yet to encouter. Gankutsuou is not at all close to the perfect anime.

  19. Vanilla says:

    @Judoh:
    Then I think you’re under-estimating Gankutsuou. Just because it hasn’t been ranked high in popular anime magazines and forums doesn’t mean it’s not necessarily a good or better anime than some of the more popular series out there. And this is WAY more than just great visuals. If that’s all you can take away from this, then I really don’t think you were paying much attention to the series at all.

    I don’t see how you got a “tedious cliched viewing experience,” when this is in no way cliched. It has a very compelling plot and it handles its story extremely well. It’s very different than most anime you see, and while some of the characters themselves and their backgrounds may be predictable or done before, it’s they way that this show carries them with such grace that makes it close to a “perfect anime.”

    Do I think it’s the best? Out of everything that I’ve seen (and I haven’t seen as much as Psgels, who as watched a good deal of anime)–yes, it’s the best. Does that make it perfect? No. Nothing can ever be “perfect”, but it can come darn well close.

    So I think the rating is appropriate. :P

  20. Souther says:

    But psgels does have his own personal way of grading series and not all of us have to agree with all of his ratings or arguments. That should be clear by now. We certainly don’t have to share the same form of thinking among ourselves either.

    For example, just because I do love Gankutsuou myself that doesn’t mean it is flawless in terms of storytelling. I would give it a 9 in that category.

    The ending has a lot of positives and the epilogue is very good, to be sure, but I found that it stopped short of greatness because of a certain annoying loose thread or two. Honestly, I was a little underwhelmed in a sense, since the ending of the book had a different bent.

    So you could say I thought the best part of the show, outside of the unique art style, was the core story and its wonderful antagonist (which, of course, isn’t original at all).

    Naturally, this is an excellent adaptation with a fair amount of worthwhile experimentation, to be truthful, but there is a lot of room for discussing the finer details.

  21. Judoh says:

    @Vanilla
    I meant Casshern was tedious not Gankutsuou. Although I loved Casshern Sins it just wasn’t meant to be…

    It seems because Gankutsuou is considered the best anime you have seen you must be looking at it through ‘rose-tinted glasses’. The reason It’s not on those lists is because it got recognized for what it was. Naturally Evangelion could have been in the same situation but the more people that saw Evangelion, the more praise it received. Where as Gankutsuou just couldn’t take off in the same way.

    I’m not under-estimating it either. I already said it was an underrated classic. Did you even read my comment?

    ~”It’s very different than most anime you see,”
    So is Le Chevalier D’Eon but that doesn’t mean it gets a 95/100.

    Anyway in conclusion if this is your favorite anime… thats fine. It is good. Although you really should watch more anime if you think it is the best. But isn’t ‘best’ just another way of saying it’s your favorite? The meaning/distinction is gone between them
    “It’s my favorite anime”…
    “It’s the best anime”…

  22. Amy says:

    Lol, Judoh. I think psgels has watched enough anime to claim what he thinks is good 8D. He never did describe it as the best, but a top 20 favourite, so hold your horses

  23. Amy says:

    My comment got cut short, why D8? But yeah, psgels. Glad you enjoyed a beaut of anime o3o!

  24. Judoh says:

    @Amy
    Your comment got cut short because it wasn’t worthy of the debate :P

    It doesn’t matter how much anime you watch. Just because an editor at rollingstone.com has to review every pop record from Lady Gaga to Greenday doesn’t mean his opinion on music is anymore educated than the general music lover.
    John over at animenation.com has been watching anime for 30 years and he has seen way more than psgels but that doesn’t mean his opinion is any more important than mine or psgels.
    All I said is that IN MY OPINION, the score of 95 was not an ideal score for this show. Once again just as 95 is psgel’s opinion my opinion was that I don’t think it’s worth a 95.

    Anyways I’m done now. This area is swarming with fiends a.k.a Master Trolls. I can see them gathering underneath a bridge holding copies of Gankutsuou…..XD

  25. Vanilla says:

    @Judoh:
    Heh. x) No offense with my earlier comment. Just felt I had to throw in my two cents.

  26. Tan-Tan says:

    Meh, it’s not my type of show ~_~

  27. psgels psgels says:

    Whoa, that’s a lot of comments. I do want to clarify something about my rating system, though:

    When I rate an anime, I’m not asking myself “how flawless is this?” Instead, it’s more like “how good is this?” and “how well does this series do the things it does well?”. Heck, the series I have rated the highest out of all my reviews is Mahou Shoujotai, and that series also has its flaws. It’s because of this reason that I stopped submitting my reviews to sites like Anidb and Myanimelist: because I don’t agree with their rating systems.

    My reviews are indeed very personal, so it’s obvious that some people will disagree with them. That’s fine, of course, because I don’t think that there exists a way to objectively determine the best anime ever anyway. It’s in the same way that I don’t really agree with Gundam being in the Top 10 of Animenation, for example.

    NB. And yeah, obviously my opinion isn’t any more important than someone who just watched his first anime. ;)

  28. shirokiryuu says:

    One of my favorite series of all time. I haven’t finished the original novel, but it does seem like people are saying, it’s a lot more faithful than other adaptations. The visuals were beautiful and I really did have an emotional response to this series… it’s such a shame Gonzo has this much potential, but has been in trouble lately…

  29. Guigas says:

    WOW a 95/100 i didn’t see that coming.

    I read the book 1st so I was a bit disappointed with this anime because it wasn’t that faithful to the book (the book is a real masterpiece, this anime watered down many excelent aspects of the book, i can’t forgive GONZO for this!). But i do agree this anime made a great adaption of the book (i don’t think its easy to gather all the info from the book and adapt it into 24 epis only), but those who read the book before the anime will notice that some things could have been handled better.

    Overral, I think a 87,5/100 or 90/100 would be just fine for this one.
    I think a 95/100 for me is Mushishi, Monster, Tsuiokuhen, etc.

    PS: Albert reminded me of Shinji from NGE(both are whiny as hell).
    For those who haven’t read the book yet, watch the anime 1st (you’ll enjoy it more), then read the book.

  30. Zetatrain says:

    Glad that you enjoyed it, its really a shame that this anime does not get more recognition in the anime world.

    Despite the fact that there are quite a few things that were different from the book, this is IMO the best adaption of the book out there.

  31. ManuOtaku says:

    I just need to say thay i agree with your review, waiting for noir though, and the fact we need more anime like this, specially on the graphics and visual style done in this anime, i know there is a bad gonzo,but because i see some people mentioned in some blogs, but all the animes i watched from this company are rock solid, and yet i didnt watched anything that i can call bad (NHK, Ninja Basilisk, Solty rei, Gankatsuou, Last Exile, Samuray Seven, My bride is a mermaid, etc.. so gonzo please emply this technique(visual art/grapchis) on your future projects please

  32. ManuOtaku says:

    “so gonzo please emply this technique(visual art/grapchis) on your future projects please”
    I meant Apply instead of emply, sorry english is not my first language 8D

  33. Ethereal says:

    This was a great watch, though I must say that it didn’t live up to the book for me. Anyone whose only exposure to Monte Cristo is an adaptation (of any kind) is really missing out. I was particularly dissapointed that the series skipped the parts of the book concerned with the imprisonment. These chapters served to put the reader in Edmond’s shoes and empathize with his motivations.

    All of the supernatural (and sci-fi) bits felt really out of place too and undermined the overall maturity of the material for me. Though I suppose the series would be even less well-known than it is if it was more down-to-earth (pun intended).

  34. Guigas says:

    SPOILERS AHEAD

    @Ethereal
    Completely agree with you. Gankutsuou was an awesome anime, but it would have been a masterpiece for me if they have used all the info from the book (it could have been longer, like 30 episodes long or something like that).

    Here are my issues:
    1)Albert was never supposed to be the protagonist (God, he is sooooo annoying/naive).
    2)Where is the part when Edmond escapes from the Chateau d’If (the prison)? It was one of the best parts of the entire book! And they didn’t animated that =(.
    3)Abbé Faria, a great support character from the book (prisoner of the Château d’If, helped Edmond to escape from prison), isn’t here ¬¬.
    4)The last 5 or 6 eps are fillers (though they were really good to see).
    5)Gankutsuou’s nature is poorly explained on the anime, while the book explains to us with details how and why Edmond became “Gankutsuou”; and, of course,explains Gankutsuou’s nature as well.
    6)The supernatural stuff was really out of place.

    I may be a bit harsh here, but this anime is still a must-see if you’re looking for something well written, exciting and different, but this isn’t a masterpiece IMO. Still this is my favorite GONZO work, side to side with Welcome to NHK.

  35. Pi says:

    I waited YEARS for you to post a review on Gankutsuou! I’m so glad you enjoyed the anime. I am completely in love with it and it’s one of my top favourite animes (along with Mushishi, Aoi Bungaku,Baccano!, and others)

    I love Chevalier D’Eon.

    That is all. 8U.

  36. Puran says:

    @Guigas : Oh come on, you can’t pin getting albert as the main character as a fault, I thought it got an interesting angle on the story, although it became more of a coming of age story as a result (hence all the angst, but I think it was handled nicely).

  37. yamapishy says:

    I thought you’ve watched this already!!!

    I’ve read the book years ago, but I almost forgot about it..but when i watched the anime, it’s like it’s all coming back to me…

    Wahh, it’s definitely one of the greatest animes in history. ^_^

  38. ali says:

    i cried. the intro song exemplified the the predominant theme of love and friendship with artistic beauty. them running on the beach with the chopped screenshots. one of the deepest and most touching anime’s i’ve ever seen. it dealt with strong theme of the morality of an aristocratic society, the meaning of life, and why forgiveness is essential in a short finite life. brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

    I was completely turned off by the animation at first, but came to understand and appreciate it once the plot began to unfold. this show is not for the simple minded. one has had to of experienced deep hardship, and have a cultivated mind to fully appreciate this show. understanding geopolitics, and how egotism can drive only a handful of men to cause war and extreme wealth inequality helps you understand the depth of this show, because it is alluded to very nicely. i completely agree with the review. i think the reason why it’s isn’t given the full credit due is because the anime culture consists largely of people who wouldn’t appreciate or understand these themes. many anime’s touch on these things, but count of monte cristo does it with out trying too hard, mixing them into the story like sugar in tea

  39. Randy says:

    Can you make a review for Air Gear, please?

  40. dreamyjohn says:

    I have just finished this show and find it worth a watch, but yea, 95/100 is a bit too… personal for an anime ranking.

    The graphics, despite being innovative and beautifully presented, hurt my eyes at some points. And yet for many reasons do this part serve the concept perfectly, something like, the extravagance of 19th century France (Pardon me but I can’t seem to ignore the fact that Haidee’s opera concert dress was a bit against her usual modesty).

    A 9/10 for characters is far too high, for the Count, Franz and Peppino should have taken more than a half of these points. Eugenie first showed up to be the strong type yet she became much of a damsel in distress throughout the rest of the series – while Valentine appeared to be so as from her very first debut before leaping into a looooong coma. They both didn’t even have enough chances to talk, as there is a serious lack of character development for Eugenie. The trailer version of Eugenie was a lesbian – shown kissing her piano teacher who seemed much like a genderbent Albert – and her initial design is later used for Andrea. Her character was rewritten to be an entirely different person with a different role during the making of the anime, hence the lack of depths and what a real let-down to consider into the overall ranking of this show.

    However, I do like the fact that many characters appear to be absolutely detestable at first and yet turned out to be much more dynamic and interesting towards the end of the anime. They’ve got reasons for every deed they were to commit, however those reasons themselves were pretty much based around one love triangle to another.

    The essential theme for this series to have been developed upon is perhaps the ungoverned desires of the human hearts fueled with dramatic power and futuristic technology. That is why despite being a good series, this show is not all that ‘mature’ and underrated as many might have thought of it. Being much more than just enjoyable, but completely not on the same league with series like Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop. A true classic needs more a sense of philosophical originality rather than just visual or emotional.

    And I am going to hate Albert forever because of Franz, my dear angel Franz ; ;

    Therefore a 85~87/100 would probably be good enough.

  41. Kami says:

    Nice Review mate. I am a huge fan of the novel and also enjoyed the movie and anime adaptation of it as well. Also the ending of the book is different from the anime if you haven’t read it.

    PS great LOGH, Monster and Mushishi review

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the bad taste thing, I could easily say Mahouka or sword art are terrible, but back when I watched and loved code geass people where probably bashing it as overhyped shit in the same way people like to do with sword art/mahouka now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I sure years ago I would have been all over violet evergarden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
For example most anime/manga melodrama has lost its effect on me, I hate Clannad and Kanon now and I won't watch the new code geass season because I want to crop it and death note both up to a teenage error and mistake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And in some cases it only takes five or so years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If not that, it’s the show no one gave a shit about that you loved or it’s a recent gem.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And it hit me, the stuff you often end up loving, becoming a measure of your true taste, in my case at least are the re-discoveries, the show you HATED or didn’t get the first time round, maybe you watched it again soon after or years later, but then it does something for you that tops anything you watched in your early days.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Then I remember theres a huge amount of big shounens I never cared for and popular writers that I never liked or if I did found somewhat overated.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Given that I’m in my thirties and have been watching anime, reading manga since I was 11, that’s led to a very very large re-watch list, something things I will NEVER get the time to go back to re-assess , for all I know they could actually be terrible series. Then there’s when I DO go back on shows and let’s face it most DON’T hold up (of course its good when they do hold up).
Kaiser-Eoghan
This has been on my back/mind for a bit now, to where I’m actually somewhat confused by this “tastes” thing in relation to myself.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Out of nowhere comment don't you think? Besides it ain't that I have perfect taste. It's just that my taste is the only one that matters.
Anonymous1819624
@Aidan you don't need to keep pretending you have perfect taste in anime. we are all aware your taste is often questionable, as all of ours are at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its kind of a pity because there were moments where I saw potential in it and thought maybe this would be some kind of exception.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But to more calmly review this, I do think its possible to present topics like this, though in a more accessible way, I think even someone more versed in this would be bothered by this presentation, in addition to this manga never flowing properly, the dialogue just feels it was ripped directly from an article or book.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I suppose in all fairness, its right to say I never studied any of these subjects in much detail that it brings up and never did anything sciencey for more than two years at school so I was probably doomed from the start.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know the expected response to what I said there is "why do you read/continue to read things you know you won't like" but if I don't come out of my comfort zone theres no chance of me being surprised.
AidanAK47
Hehe..well Kaiser, I don't remember saying it was good. I just said it was an insane ride. I found its concept interesting but the presentation was just terrible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for ranting but this makes my blood absolutely seethe and boil.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I got to the last two chapters and just stopped caring, the info dumping, the multiple lives thing, especially the my own father/mother thing and magical girl part....fuck...
Kaiser-Eoghan
And yes I'm talking about Qualia....this...was....abject...punishing headwrecking agony to read.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Okay fuck it, just fuck it, I refuse, absolutely refuse to touch anything involving many worlds interpretation, time travel, shared memory,multiple runthroughs/loops ever again under any any circumstances, this is the worst form of storytelling I can possibly sit through from my perspective , I cannot finish this its impossible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've given away/sold/thrown out anime/manga before, including figures and posters while keeping others , can't remember off hand, but it was to free space.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Together we make....tiger and dragon....Toradora =O
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To be clearer, any interesting series/films they threw out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Anything else interesting they threw out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm year of the tiger, Aidan is year of the dragon.
SuperMario
And today is the Lunar New Year, happy new year guys! It's a year of the Dog so for those who is born in the year of the Dog... my condolenses since it is supposed to be your bad luck year
SuperMario
I think they move away so they just throw all their dvds there. There were other live action movies and series in there
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Strange that if he truly didn't want it that he never decided to just sell it.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I tested it and all of the DVDs are playable. The package includes the whole show and the movie. Not a scratch either
Kaiser-Eoghan
pppftt, not leaving it in the trash and instead going out and getting the blurays instead =P
Lenlo
Ha, shouldnt be surprised you read it to
AidanAK47
Everytime I read a newly translated Re:Zero chapter I just hunger for a new anime season. The latest chapter would be fantastic animated
AidanAK47
@Mario, Maybe the discs got scratched and the don't work anymore? Otherwise this is blasphemy if the highest degree.
SuperMario
Don't know how should I feel about that :))
SuperMario
Can you believe it? Someone in my apartment just threw away the Cowboy Bebop boxset. Normally I don't pick up someone's trash but it's a crime NOT TO in this case. %$^&&
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will hearby read Murasakiro Qualia!
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Very good voice casting decision with hourou musuko, the voice actor for the protaganist was an actual 14 year old and sounds kind of androgynous anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it comes as no surprise for me if the mangaka of Housou Musuko is a lesbian, since the show has a honest feeling if someone who actually experience those issues
Kaiser-Eoghan
So that probably came after or something.
Kaiser-Eoghan
None of those episodes 30 involved this ant-arc Aidan mentioned as I recall.
Bokusen
0_o What the heck...It must take a long while to get good then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
All I was told by a hunter x hunter fan on here was after I said I'd watched 30 episodes was "I wonder if the next arc will change your mind"
Bokusen
Does Hunter x Hunter really take 40 eps to get good? I've been thinking of watching it since I really liked YYH & it's the same mangaka. I got hooked on YYH by episode 7, but if HxH takes 40 eps to hook me I might get tired of it before then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And in some cases it can represent an temporary escape from the self.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As an odd, maybe interesting relevant point, in some cases, well I think most a non-mtf , both a physical and psychological male, if they wear female clothing, the body reacts as if its like contact with a woman.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Or for a very old manga on that theme: http://mangakakalot.com/chapter/claudine/chapter_0
Kaiser-Eoghan
The anime worked suprisingly well despite the decision to start in the middle.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As much as I absoslutely love hourou musuko I do need to raise some flaws with the manga, the ending is rushed and underveloped and it is true the characters are too precocious.
Anonymous1811397
Is very slow, and I did reach a point of feeling nothing was happening. I did like the anime pacing things faster. Also like with the anime Aoi Hana it did have a poignant line. In Aoi Hana was the response to the tomboy that wanted to reengage with the MC, and in Hourou Musuko was coming out with his girlfriend.
Anonymous1811397
@SuperMario - Yep, it's maybe the most innocent yet mature take on transgender themes I've seen on a manga. I like it also tackles both genders, since we see women can wear more masculine clothing and be fine with it, but a man doing it is still weird, and unfitting. Also I think it's also the first time I've seen someone going to a catholic church to pray in a japanese setting. However, the manga
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although I was reading Qualia as it was being translated then fell behind, something that needs to be read in one go probably.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*musuko
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I believe the author of hourou mysuko is a lesbian.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I believe that was discussed on here some years back between myself, you and wicked and how the manga could alienate readers with the sciencey dialogue.
AidanAK47
So I read a manga called Murasakiiro no Qualia. And boy, that was one insane ride.
SuperMario
it addresses such a touchy theme with so much grace
SuperMario
boy, just one episode into Housou Musuko and I already fall head over heels for it. Only one issue is the character designs are kinda similar, which took me quite a bit to follow the cast
SuperWooper
Hey, anon. ;)
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel there's too much pressure on people to watch the "YOU HAVE TO WATCH" because its popular anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just comparing level Es art to hunter x hunter shows how he isn't playing at his A-game with Hunters artwork.
SuperMario
I hated John Wick 2. The plot is just an excuse for too much dull action
SuperMario
Holy cow
SuperMario
If I follow Hunter x hunter one episode a day quota for everyday, I'll finish it in... 5 months
AidanAK47
Oh found Fate/Strange Fake Translated. Got my reading materail for the week.
AidanAK47
His drawing can get rather lazy as well. The chimera ant arc manga artwork really looks like he isn't even trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Apparently the hunter x hunter writer takes alot of breaks/hiatus' from working on the manga. You'd be waiting a while after catching up.
AidanAK47
Like it was building for a greater confrontation but the author got bored and decided to cut the arc short.
AidanAK47
@Anon, It may take a bigger investment than that for it to truly grab you. Truth be told I don't hold the series as highly as others do. I just found it fine while I thought the chimera ant arc was the best the show had to offer but was still a bit disappointing. Honestly every arc basically felt like it ended anticlimactically.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Teppu and shamo should be adapted .
Kaiser-Eoghan
So you're telling me that when that cgi city fell to ruin we see NO-ONE die? lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
The problem with PG 13 action is the lack of consequence.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I actually preferred it, expanded somewhat on the first, better action when it happens and looked more polished.
Anonymous1808795
is john wick2 as good as the 1st one ?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd be well well up for a non-supernatural martial arts manga/anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'll never understand people going apeshit over superhero action films when John wick 2 and Hardboiled and the killer exist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
A physical fight feels more raw and exciting to me rather than magic .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think I'm far far too into Kung-fu/heroic bloodshed/wuxia/politizitesschi/spaghetti westerns to get anything out of superpower action stuff for the most part.
Anonymous1808795
but its so highly rated everywhere, probably gonna try to watch a coulple more eps
Anonymous1808795
2011 version
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember a heart being ripped out in an earlier chapter if I recall correctly.
AidanAK47
@Anon, 2011 or 1999 version?
Your mileage may vary. Hunter X Hunter is rather standard Shounen up until the Phantom trope arc. But even then it's still Shounen with some small interesting twists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I just stopped, even when I was younger I found shounen jump stuff impossible to connect with.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've been told I need to watch at least 40 episodes, I got through thirty, I liked Hisoka at least and it kind of feels seinen-y with the violence I guess?
Anonymous1808795
is hunter x hunter worth it ? im 5 episodes in and it feels like generic shounen stuff
AidanAK47
Candy and Cigarettes, great opening chapter. Please don't start to suck.
Anonymous1803500
Yuri on ice made it to the olympics lol. Definitely needs a second season now
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do think you've put alot on your plate with this but good luck with it all.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The reason I go into detail with that long post Mario, is that I want to prepare you before you start watching and also so you know whats worth watching or not.
Lenlo
Pfft, have fun Mario with all 146 episodes of HunterxHunter for your retrospective
KTravlos
I really do like the development of Mahoutsukai no Yome
Anonymous1802232
Im so glad this back on
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Tiger & Bunny is indeed getting second season. I'm currently burning through shows from Qualifying List so you'll hear my thoughts on some of those shows you just mentioned soon.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Need to get used to posting these long messages in the comments section instead.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was surprised with how the supernatural anime adaptation was able to make the stories flow despite halving the tv dramas episode runtimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will watch kaiji SOMEDAY.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I always thought there'd be a second tiger and bunny season but it never materialized, which was diasspointing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Wandering son really jived with me and I thought it was a respectful take on its topic rather than most shows playing that for a laugh.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ano hana for the larger part hits its emotional notes and is well animated but I thought some characters could have gotten more development and the drama in the last episode veered on silly levels looking back in its execution.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've never seen C or showa, Kamisama or phi brain.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel ao no exorcist took a more drama approach at points which suited me better, Aidan saw the movie and thought it was crap though and swore off films based on long running shounens.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can't remembrt anything about penguindrum, Zombie and IS only work as guilty pleasures.
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