Posted by psgels on 3 June 2011 with categories: Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae o Boku-Tachi wa Mada Shiranai



Even for Ano Hana standards, this episode was amazing. I mean, how much can you stuff into an episode anyway? This episode went from heart-wrenching scene to heart-wrenching scene, and it just kept going! Each time showing new things about the cast, sharp dialogue and a huge heap of sincerity.

First there was Menma’s mother who actually lashed out at the group as a whole, then Yukiatsu forced Jinta to just go on on his own, Anjou confessed the feelings she had when she was younger, Jinta had a great scene together with his father, then Menma’s brother came along and as a desert Menma finally had the guts to make her presence known to the others. Heck, every single part here would have made for an amazing episode, but this episode found a way to put them all in the same episode. Now THAT’s how you take advantage of Noitamina!

I always found it a bit of a plothole that Menma didn’t just make stuff float in front of the group. Still, this episode showed that she can probably only bump into stuff, and probably thought that that wouldn’t be enough to convince people of her existence (she’s good at running away and all).

In any case though, this episode was also really good for one of the biggest strengths of this series: the way in which it puts so much meaning into its dialogue. The script in this series is masterfully written, in order to get as much out of the characters as possible. The characters here are both big liars, and surprisingly true to their feelings: they’re really able to express what they’re feeling, and this series does that in a way that I haven’t seen in a long, long while.
Rating: **** (Fantastic)

33 Responses

  1. Alec says:

    IMO, it would’ve been better if the creators didn’t do the scene where Menma had to drop her diary in order to prove that she is here.

    still… I won’t deny it’s the most epic episode yet

  2. meow says:

    IMO, it would’ve been better if the creators didn’t do the scene where Menma had to drop her diary in order to prove that she is here.

    I’m just surprised she never did it sooner. Forget a diary. Just eat a bowl of ramen in front of the others. Or present them a bowl of her buns. I was half wondering if maybe Jinta was partially hallucinating – he certainly seemed to think so. And I was a little bit surprised that she was strong enough to turn one of those search lights and turn it on for Jinta during the roadworks scene. IMHO not an easy feat if she was a living girl.

  3. Troyen says:

    I’ve been waiting for her to make her presence known since about episode two. Every time she hangs on someone’s neck, that person complains they feel a weight, so she has some ability to interact with the world. She can move objects, cook food, and eat food, why not write stuff on paper, float things around, arrange stuff in a message, or simplest enough would be to have Jintan stand in a corner under watch while everyone else picks a number between one and a billion and have her tell Jintan what it is several times in a row.

    That point aside, I’ve really been enjoying the show, and I’m especially looking forward to how the rest of the cast will act post-dropped diary. Are all of them really going to accept that as proof (looking at you, Yukiatsu)?

  4. EMChamp says:

    I keep waiting on this series to disappoint and fail to deliver on such an emotional level. Instead what I’ve gotten is 8 episodes of superbly delivered plot and rich characterization.

    As the viewer I felt so relieved for Jintan when Menma finally revealed herself. It was painful the way the others would believe in Jintan’s Menma one moment then claim Jintan was insane the next. There was a great quote in the middle of the episode where Jintan says something like since Menma wasn’t there, they weren’t all together anyway, so he might as well try to go at it alone (something like that). I guess that’s why Menma’s revelation is so powerful, because she is the one link holding this fractured group of friends together.

    As a side note, I hope they properly explain why she hadn’t simply tried to contact people before.

  5. ahelo says:

    Lol 4 stars. How long has it been since we got 4 stars in this blog?

  6. Jo says:

    @ahelo : Prolly since FMA : Brotherhood. Can’t blame that. FMA BRotherhood’s my favorite anime of all time C:

    That aside..

    I felt so bad for Jinta when he started to cry.
    Looks like this anime is going to end sadly…

  7. krystal says:

    As for the concern of why Menma didn’t reveal herself sooner, I found this really good piece of speculation on a Japanese blog.

    From the point when Menma first appears, she had the feeling that if she had her wish fulfilled, she would probably disappear. She also was sure that her wish was something that could be fulfilled only with everyone in the Super Peace Busters involved. However, as she continued to live together with Jintan, she started to think that maybe it would be good if she could just always stay this way so she never thought of making the effort to prove her existence to the others. If she proves her existence, then things would progress to the point where her wish would be fulfilled and she would disappear. But then, she realized that by not revealing her existence, Jintan who she likes so much would be hurt instead (by others around him) so she made the decision to reveal herself, have her wish fulfilled, and finally rest in peace.

    I claim no ownership of these ideas and merely wanted to post this because I found this very convincing when I first read this.

  8. ojisan says:

    Krystal’s findings from that blog sound very likely to me – everyone in the series (except maybe Poppo & Jintan’s dad) is hiding their feelings, vacilatting between addressing the situation and flinching away from it. Menma’s doing the same – she wants her wish, but not the consequences of her wish.

    Great, great episode. I like how Menma’s brother pops out of the woodwork top have his say, and how Jintan’s dad finally gets some credit for being the really great guy he is (one ojisan to another) –

  9. meow says:

    I found this very convincing when I first read this.

    Yeah. This makes alot of sense. I suspect some of the characters, especially Yukiatsu, may come to this conclusion too and may even try to argue against fulfilling Menma’s wish later on.

    Looks like this anime is going to end sadly…

    I would say bittersweet. Something like the final arc of Magnitude 8.0. I suppose it’s appropriate given the tragedy that hit Japan recently. Maybe to help some of the viewers come to terms with their own losses. I’ll be really surprised if they can get Menma to come back permanently, although a part of me wishes it was possible.

  10. m says:

    I don’t know if it was during the scriptwriting or the storyboarding, but obviously there was considerable effort put forth that has really paid off by keeping the dramatic scenes, giant crying scenes and all, from ever feeling cheap and forced. It’s not hard for this kind of material to degenerate into the author just telling you how to feel, instead of really placing you into the scene. The non-verbal cues that provide insight into the characters are also excellent.

    I also like that by comparison to many other shows that mix humor and sadness, this series never seems to strive to bounce from the extremes of either, which prevents any significant mood whiplash.

    Every time I hear that ED it’s like a bittersweet screw being turned. So whatever the mechanism, this show has certainly managed to wrap me around its finger.

  11. tomphile says:

    Though it’s a great episode, it would have been better if this series was set to go for a full 13 episodes, but I’ve heard that it’s only going for 11, which is a shame. Anyways, it’s sad that Anjou and the other childhood friends will never win in a love battle.

  12. sadakups says:

    Thanks for the info krystal. That pretty much answered my question on why Menma did not make her presence known earlier.

    And OH SH- four stars. You know psgels is liking it when he gives something so rare like that.

  13. Kei says:

    this is indeed a heart-wrenching episode. it presents the perspective of how each feels about Menma’s death, from her mom to her friends, even her little brother. with so many crying scenes in a single episode, it does not come across as overly emotional. instead every scene counts. even in the last few minutes when her friends realise Menma is with them, it is full of sincerity.

  14. Hogart says:

    Yeah, what krystal presented here is what I’ve been assuming for a number of episodes now.. the OP and ED practically scream it as well. It’s heavy-handed to drag things out this way, but as long as they adequately end it, it will still work.

    If anything, I had forgotten what a good drama was like – I’m so used to wham moments and shocking reveals in anime that I think that’s why I’m enjoying AnoHana so much.. they’re actually letting the story tell itself without forcing it down our throats as much as usual.

    It’s nice to see anime characters again that act more like exaggerated human beings than exaggerated anime characters.

  15. Jérémy says:

    This episode was soooo good :D With all those dramatic scenes I was expecting to find them cheap but the thing with Ano Hana is that they use some cliches but put so much though and feeling in the dialogues that it’s completely original and heartfelt. And I cry again and again and again xD

  16. Ryouichi says:

    As much as I’d wished for Menma to reveal herself earlier, I got shivers when they started reading the latest entry.

  17. Perm says:

    oAo All the small details with Jintan and his mom so far…I wonder if the reason he can see Menma is because he himself is close to dying?

  18. Scruffy says:

    @M I know exactly what you mean about the ED. The way they mesh the ED into the show as quiet background music initially and then when that chorus kicks in, I just get that choked feeling. This has so far been one amazing show in every single way.

  19. Joojoobees says:

    This show is so solid. It really puts most other shows to shame. Most other shows are between 50 and 95% fluff per episode, while this show keeps it down to 10 – 20% per episode, then pulls this one out, where every moment seemed to count.

  20. Sev says:

    This episode kinda failed when it came down to plot developments. Having Memna do something she could do from the very beginning to prove her existence is pretty cheap and a good example of bad writing. She could have done this in the very first episode. Even if she didn’t figure this out back then, she would have realized this as soon as everyone thought Jinta was 1. insane and 2. wrong.
    This development happened because the writer wrote him/herself into a corner. This is pretty much a deus ex machina.

    Also no, Memna can do much more than “bump” into stuff. She can cook, write, etc.

    That said, everything leading up to that mistake was pretty good.

  21. sadakups says:

    There was no deus ex machina. What are you talking about?

  22. meow says:

    So I finally got to watch this and I noticed something weird. Jin-tan’s dad woke Jin-tan up while Menma was asleep on his bed, covered by a blanket. Wouldn’t Jin-tan’s dad have noticed that a blanket is floating on Jin-tan’s bed?

  23. meow says:

    Having Memna do something she could do from the very beginning to prove her existence is pretty cheap and a good example of bad writing.

    No…I have to very strongly disagree. Making Jinta the only one who could see Menma was important plot device. It gives time for all the characters and the whole setting to be introduced and fleshed out, including Menma’s family. It kept me guessing at least as to how “real” Menma was. (See my previous post about the blanket and Jinta’s Dad apparently not noticing it.) You did notice how hard Jinta tried to avoid addressing Menma’s presence in his house, as if he himself only half-believed it himself, and how he refers to Menma as his hallucination? And we wouldn’t have seen Yukiatsu demonstrate so vividly his own feelings for Menma if not for him not being convinced of Menma’s presence.

    Writing themselves into a corner? Hardly.

  24. Sev says:

    I agree that it was important for only Jinta to be able to see Memna. It worked well to establish all the characters and the dynamic between them. Additionally, it created some tension between Jinta and the rest and whether they trusted him implicitly on the existence of Memna.
    This trust issue(and the question whether Jinta was sane) is now thrown away for sake of furthering the plot. And they did this by her using that same ability she’s shown earlier. It’s obvious that they couldn’t do this earlier for sake of drama, but I’d say that they should never have done this. My reasoning behind this is that if she could have done this earlier(and she could), she would have done this earlier. It’s fridge logic.

    Oh, and yes, this is a case of deus ex machina. Instead of having the character work out their trust issues through character development, they anticlimactically ended this plotthread in the cheapest possible way. I guess the writer couldn’t write himself out of this situation.
    To give you another example of this, take the eagles from Lord of the rings. They only appear when Tolkien placed the good guys in such a spot that he couldn’t figure out how they could get back to safety without some sort of divine intervention. By writing eagles into the story, one has to wonder why you can’t simply use them to fly to mount doom and resolve the plot at the very first book. Similarly, if Memna could do this from the get-go, why didn’t she do it back when these trust issues first appeared?

    Now don’t get me wrong. I like this series. But this is just bad writing, especially since it obsoleted one of the better parts of this story.

  25. ojisan says:

    I’d draw attention to Krystal’s input earlier on, that Menma is conflicted about having her wish granted, and thus about making her presence clear to everyone. I can’t remember her being frantic or frustrated that people other than Jintan can’t see her – it’s not like she’s been making every effort. Like Jintan, she’s chugging on day to day, toying with and also avoiding the issues most important to her. Perhaps this attitude is changing a bit, now that she’s making herself known –

  26. meow says:

    My reasoning behind this is that if she could have done this earlier(and she could), she would have done this earlier.

    Well, for one thing, Menma being the airhead that she is, probably couldn’t figure out how to communicate with others when she can’t be seen. Look at how she tried to talk to Poppo in this episode, even though she should have known he couldn’t see her. Two, she was satisfied with just being with Jinta. As the japanese blogger that krystal mentioned in No.7 pointed out, she didn’t want to disappear and was, perhaps subconsciously afraid of having her wish actually granted. This changes when she sees how hard Jinta and everyone else are working for her sake. Finally, the trigger here is her overhearing Poppo’s phone convo and later at the hideout where Jinta was about to get socked. Suddenly she has the need to prove her existence to her friends to stop their fight. Spur of the moment and pretty natural thing for her to do and it works with the story. A deus ex machina might be Menma having never shown the ability to manipulate the enviroment yet suddenly being able to write in her diary to stop the fight. And this is just a plot turn in the story. It’s not the end. It seems to resolve one conflict but opens the door to alot more possible development.

    I for one am pretty anxious to know how the other four deal with Menma. Seriously, Jinta has a much easier time because he can see and hear her. How do you deal with a ghost you can’t see or hear? You can’t read their body language or hear their tone of voice. Would they be happy or terrified? A mix of both? What happens if/when Menma’s mother gets into the mix? Remember the first Highlander movie and how MacLeod’s lover reacted when he came back from the dead?

    By writing eagles into the story, one has to wonder why you can’t simply use them to fly to mount doom and resolve the plot at the very first book.

    So um…*LOTR spoilers*?

    The eagles weren’t a deus ex machina. They were evened out by Sauron’s own flying servants. Even in the final battle, they only evened out the ringwraiths overwhelming air superiority. The ring had to be destroyed first, destroying the wraiths and freeing the eagles for the rescue. If the eagles had tried flying Frodo to Mt Doom from the start, would they have been able to get through?

    One does not simply eagle their way into Mordor. XD

  27. Sev says:

    If I recall correctly, Tolkien himself pretty much stated that the eagles were problematic in his stories. He knew they were a deus ex machina plot device. I’ll leave LOTR for what it is since this is getting derailed enough as it is.

    Even if Memna is truly too dumb to realize what she did this episode earlier, Yadomi himself could have brought it up. It would have proven his sanity and resolved all those issues.
    Subconscious denial from the very start sounds suspect. If it was like that, she wouldn’t have brought up the wish at all and instead just pestered him to get the gang back together.

    Even with your reasoning, it is still a pretty big leap not to call this a gaping plothole, or extremely contrived.

    A deus ex machina is not just limited to the archetypical god descending from the heaven to solve all problems. It applies when the solution is contrived like this one.

    Anyway, I think we’re done here. You’re clearly not going to see it any other way and neither will I. Let’s move on.

  28. meow says:

    No hard feelings I hope, Sev. I respect your opinion but was hoping to at least close the gap between yours and mine a little. I’m a bit disappointed that I failed. XD I guess we’ll chalk this one up to a story that just rubs us in different ways.

    And about LOTR, yea I just watched the movies. I never studied the novels. The opinion above is just from me watching the movies. Kudos to you for having a more informed opinion. :)

  29. Ryouichi says:

    Prevailing argument that I’ve seen about this is that: Before, they got back together and seemed to be getting along, therefore Menma was happy and didn’t see a need to reveal herself. When they start fighting and falling apart, she does this…

    Or so the theory goes.

  30. Hunter-Wolf says:

    @Sev

    I’ll be taking everyone’s side here .. you said this Sev:-

    “”Subconscious denial from the very start sounds suspect. If it was like that, she wouldn’t have brought up the wish at all and instead just pestered him to get the gang back together””

    Point is .. it isn’t Subconscious denial .. she has the mind of a kid and is an air-head to start with .. so having a conflicted opinion is what was happening … yeah .. she does mention her wish … but maybe she did so she finds an excuse to bring everyone together (they would need an excuse) … then she realizes that maybe if her wish is made true .. she might leave this world … but then again if the group doesn’t have a strong motive to band together they will disperse (like what happened this ep) … then finally seeing the suffering she caused (Yadomi crying, the whole group fighting, her mother .. etc etc) she made up her mind and decided to push things towards the final conclusion of having her wish granted even if it will means she will only stay with everyone for a short period then disappear.

    That explains the “time out” phrase Menma said –>i.e she made up her mind/decided to take action .. finally .. she said it when she came into the hideout .. so it isn’t really a deus-ex machina at all IMO (i used to think it is until recently) … it might not have been communicated too well .. but some people did figure it out .. it is there.

  31. Hogart says:

    I honestly can’t understand all this talk of plotholes from the POV of the live characters. It should be obvious that the characters are of questionable sanity and have chosen to struggle with a painfully traumatic incident on their own for many years.

    If they simply confronted their problems that easily it would be even more conveniently forced writing than all of this forced drama. How many broken and traumatized people do you know who have shut themselves away, who can simply say “look, here’s a ghost-girl”? Jintan has many reasons to not exposing Menma, and none of them have to be rational.. he’s a traumatized kid with self-image issues, not Sherlock Holmes.

    Possible plotholes form from why Menma herself hasn’t revealed herself, but if you’ve accepted the fact that she’s a ghost/poltergeist then you’ve also accepted the fact that the writers can contrive any rationale for her they want to avoid plotholes. She is a ten-year-old’s ghost, who apparently still loves Jintan, and would probably not want to leave his side even if she had to be a ghost. That is a pretty common theme in romantic ghost stories, after all.

  32. PL says:

    For once, I agree with this review.

  33. Taara535 says:

    Regardless of plotholes or no plotholes, it is rare that I can rewatach an episode 3 days after I originally watched it and still thoroughly enjoy it. What the writers have done with the dialog here, what the voice actors and sound coordinators have done with the tone of the show, and what the animators have done to bring the two together into a coherent and poignant whole is nothing more than amazing.

    I doubt there will be a better anime show released this entire year.

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CHANGE USERNAME
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
Anonymous670441
Gente - Ristorante no Hitobito
Kaiser Eoghan
If anything its the hate I have for certain characters that makes it more effective.
Kaiser Eoghan
The obsessional level of attachment is just uncomfortable to me, I don't want to get THAT attached to a non-real character.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its literally just a case of "Okay lets look at this picture of this character, she looks interesting, no feelings or expression from me, apply this fetish, fap, get release, go home. "
Kaiser Eoghan
Or drooling/dribbling/heavy breathing/grinning over the characters. I abhor alot of the anime girls I find attractive or am indifferent, even when looking at ecchi/hentai drawings I'm straight and clinical with it.
Kaiser Eoghan
I mean to each their own. But I really hate the level of emotion/devotion to moe/finding the characters attractive. Such as celebrating their birthdays, going on about how cute/hot they are, how important it is that they're virgins. Or not being being self-aware of how irritating the characters are.
Lenlo
Anime hipster is pretty accurate. His general treatment of the current state of anime is annoying, as is his obsession with moe. Maybe its cause I cant stand moe most of the time, but it bugs me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: Essentially my brothers view on digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I don't usually feel the need to correct errors in your reviews as the errors are generally un-important, but I think you meant to say apprentices rather than appearences in the Rakugo review, just bringing that up as it felt like kind of a throw off.
AidanAK47
Which is kinda like saying Madoka wasn't a magical girl deconstruction because Sailor Moon and Nanoha had dark elements too.
AidanAK47
Went and read the reddit comments on it and seems I was right on the money.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, He's basically a anime hipster. For example, I saw a thumbnail of his which had Saitama on it and below it "Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?" and I thought "Okay, he's going to go on about how OPM isn't subversive and then list a bunch of arbitrary examples in an attempt to redefine what is actually subversive"
Lenlo
I have lots of issues with Digibro. Dude has some good points, but other very horrible ones. Some issues he feels strongly about and gets kinda biased on imo.
Anonymous669202
acca looks visually interesting, and I personally really dig this kind of show, but it seems that it's definitely not for everyone
AidanAK47
Time to live up to my word. Four posts incoming.
AidanAK47
Man, Little witch Academia was so good. I disagree with the whole Digibro thing about being able to recognise a great show in it's first episode but watching this makes me think that this really is going to be something special.
AidanAK47
Alright, gonna put in effort today and have 3 or 4 first impressions posts done. That should knock out near half the season.
Kaiser Eoghan
Had a flip through handshakers. Garish is the word I'd use to describe it visually, it takes you out of the show.
Topgavin
ASuperMario From the first minute I can already tell it's by the same people that made K. Those colour filters and the extremely jarring/obvious city CGI is unmistakable.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, literally makes my hands shaking. It's an abosolute mess. Highly recommended to check it out because it's so terrible it's great to watch
Vonter212
Yeah, and it's also a literal woman in refrigerator plot device, since that the thing that pushes the story forward.
Masky
I'd say that having to hide your sister's body in fridge would count as daaaaaaark and edgy, but when the body is wearing only underwear, and for some reason main character put metal things in fridge to keep body standing(I guess to not knock fridge open from inside?) I think it goes to "exploitation" you are talking about
Vonter212
@Masky - Did someone said doing dark things for drama? That's the bread and butter to get despair. Unless it's for the sake of perversion. Then it's just exploitation.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Masky: His other works dead tube and scumbag go further in the unhinged regard.
Masky
*relies on easy "let's do [x dark thing] for drama!" thing
Masky
Geez, Mayonaka no X Giten is fricking disturbing/disgusting ._. I'm pretty sure that writing relies on e, but I can't help but think mangaka is trying to make corpses sexy.
SuperMario
I found Onihei to be quite good, actually one of the most solid new episode I watched this new season. Guys, check them out
Vonter
I just hope it doesn't fall into the same misstep Kabaneri or Inuyasha or Bleach fall by making a villain so over the top that it crossed the line of not having a satisfying downfall.
Anonymous657941
@Vonter I think they just moved on. I lost interest rather quickly and I guess even the fans did that at some point, like with some other long-running series. There is much more new and more direct "fujo" stuff out there, many of them probably switched. Don't know what happens in the manga but maybe the story got worse or contained things some people didn't like.
Vonter
January will be loli dictator month (for me) :p. World Conquest Zvezda Plot, Youjo Senki: Saga of Tanya the Evil (new), Seraph of the End. For some reason I stumble into three curious series with little power hungry girls. If I can ask, why did Owari Seraph's hype died, I remember back it was mentioned more often. It still has the fujoshi fanart but still, I don't see people bringing it up.
SuperMario
@CATski: well, if you didn't like its first 3 episodes I dont think the rest gonna change your mind. Have you finished Erased then? How did you like it?
SuperMario
But I understand it's difficult to speak in front of camera, get some time to get used to it
SuperMario
@kaiser: I won't commend on poem as I'm terrible at it myself but younneed to work more on presentation Kaiser. Small little things like looking directly at the camera or say "thanks for listening" in the end can connect you to the audience better
Anonymous657071
Ok. I'll give the thing another chance. *clicks torrent* XD. CATski.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Topgavin: You might like centaur no nanami if you like demi-chan.
Kaiser Eoghan
Damn...repeated myself =<
Kaiser Eoghan
There are these things called slam sessions done in bars where people get up and read out stuff in front of a crowd and read stuff out. Actually watching rakugo made me think about practicing for that kind of thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: the video I did was of me reading out a short piece of writing I did, a poem. lol I uploaded it to the wrong youtube account too I just realized =P
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBZ2hBDBYs&t=11s
I"] was recording this from my mothers laptops inbuilt cam while reading off my desktop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I think it's a good idea for you to try out reviewing movies/stuffs in youtube channel. I'll be very interesting to listen to them
SuperMario
@Topgavin: Agree. Demi-chan was so charming. Definately one of my favorite so far this new season
Topgavin
Demi-chan's first episode was good. Like, really really good. That blonde-haired girl was hilarious, the teacher-student relationship between the MC and the girls is really interesting and the social/practical problems the demi's face make it look like my favorite show so far.
CATski
Ah... ok. Is it really that good or it's just one of those "artsy" animes that tend to get overrated by their ardent fans? I didnt find the rakugo bit interesting.... probably the weakest aspect of the show for me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Why did I read that chapter. Why did I do that to myself.
Kaiser Eoghan
Admittedly yes the premise is not for everyone, but if you stick with it, the flashback arc had some good character work in there.
CATski
Rakugo has a season 2? I watched ep 1 - 3 of season 1 then promptly deleted it. The loud "yankee" dude was annoying. And the anime was boring.
Kaiser Eoghan
Oh man, I've been thinking lately of trying to start some kind of youtube channel. I did a few trial run videos. Its much much harder than it looks, didn't realize how nervy being in front of a video camera was.
Kaiser Eoghan
*a declining art and rakygo halls are closing down
Total users: 25

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