Posted by psgels on 1 September 2011 with categories: Blood-C



You know how often action series like to set themselves at high schools? You know how often the bad guys just ignore the most perfect targets of high school students? Yeah. This show realized that too. Holy crap that was intense! This is horror! The pacing still was excellent and the portrayal of the cast as ordinary high school students is really paying off now!

I’d also like to direct you to this interview, of the director of Blood-C and the director of Blood+ (and who has been pretty much writing every installment of the franchise). That, combined with this episode took away all of my doubts for this series: this is gonna be awesome.

The interesting thing is that the Junichi Fujisaku fully intended this Saya to be different from the Saya of Blood+ and really intended this series to make use of its creative freedom. And I have to agree that this so far has been an awesome way to expand upon the Blood Franchise. Heck, the director was intentionally planning to make the series END, while still leaving open room for the movie which will be completely different, which is EXACTLY what I’ve been hoping!

As for why I didn’t mind this series in the beginning, even though I have given up on series who started with very bland characters. For one, the execution really helped: for me, Blood-C immediately had a really tight atmosphere, and used its flashbacks combined with its battles really well to build up a sense of urgency for the cast. It puts them in a context and made me interested in what this series would look like when it really fired off. Compare that to R-15 or Baka To Test to Shoukanjuu Ni, which were just slurs of bad acting and jokes that didn’t work, with nothing that really caught my attention.

All in all, I do not think that the characters in this series are badly acted or portrayed, like for example what happened with Uta Prince and Kaitou Tenshi Twin Angel, which both did try to tell some overall story, but completely lost me on how completely stupid they were. Saya herself may not be smart, but this is on a different league compared to the stupidity of the shows mentioned above. The acting here is restrained, instead of characters trying to act all over the place in the hopes of catching attention. Those are the characters that I find to be the most obnoxious the most often.

Overall I like the way this show did its cross-overs. Interestingly, it’s not the only series to have done that this season, with Blade and all. The best cross-overs can really enhance both shows and add some new things and introspectives, while being excellent stories that are still watchable on their own, no matter whether we’re talking about in-universe cameos or alternative universes. That’s why I’m not a big a fan of the Votoms alternative movies: they felt rather random and didn’t seem to add much depth to the Votoms franchise and they weren’t really interesting to watch. Same for the Precure All-Stars movies: I found them to be rather boring and they didn’t really add anything significant to Heartcatch Precure.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

35 Responses

  1. Will says:

    And that marks the hat trick of Awesome ratings. I suppose it was an awesome week for anime.

  2. Mi-Mi-Mikuru says:

    eeeeh NO! Iorogi is NOT another version of Kurogane! Its just the same seiyuu and they made fun of it! If you had read the Kobato manga you would now that!

  3. Mi-Mi-Mikuru says:

    I don’t want to sound rude, but it’s really irritating when you state stuff like it’s a fact, and in reality its just plain wrong.

  4. Kits says:

    Baka test and R-15 try be diferent every episode, this is serie is the same thing every week, random school and random battle, this is stupid in the sense is to repetitive and with don’t met to well the others characters, Uta prince a less with know well, Saya is boring, don’t have any carism. you just like be imparcial with Clamp

  5. Mi-Mi-Mikuru says:

    oh and of course DogWata is the same as holicWata because he owns a shop that fills wishes… ^^;;;
    Your wish-reference to Kobato doesn’t make any sense, too, because the wish dind’t link to any other CLAMP-series, the wish wasn’t made in the holicshop.

    As for the episode: why did Saya AGAIN wait until many people were slaughtered before doing something? I hope this isn’t just lazy writing.
    But nonetheless i liked the second half of the episode, it was intense. (damn censoring)

  6. Snowolf says:

    Iorogi is not another version of Kurogane, not that I think- though they do have very similar personalities, but I think that’s just a CLAMP thing.

    I think Watanuki is Watanuki, regardless, because think of it- Yuuko was the thing that tied the universes together with her existence. I don’t think there’s a parallel existence of Watanuki, especially after knowing WHAT he is (if you have read the manga you will understand that there is no copy of Watanuki because he in itself is a copy of someone’s existence, or rather shares that existence). I think what really made Blood C so worthwhile to me was that it seemed a lot like Casshern Sins- they both started off somewhat off track (seemingly) and took time to get where they wanted, but once they did, they rocketed off into a very stable series( alas, for Casshern Sins, the ending was really rushed). The atmosphere was excellent in this episode and after reading that interview, you can really tell that Junichi fully intended to mix that ‘boring, mundane usual life’ with something so unexpected to give the perfect result of horror. Now both are intermingling and it’s giving very powerful effects as shown in the past two episodes.

    What I’m really glad is that you can go back through this series and catch on the really subtle moments and dialogue that what were once usually tasteless random things, are now essential ‘oh!’ moments where you realize there’s two (or more) things being said. I’m a huge fan of subtlety and I guess that’s why I’m such a passionate fan of this show, and I’m really glad they’re doing stuff like this.

    With only four more episodes left, I have no doubts that there will be more than enough time to really get things juiced up and flowing, and enough story to crossover to the movie, as once again, intended. All I can say to the people who thoroughly expressed their distaste for this show and how ‘pointless’ it was is that, well, I told you so, and not many people bothered to listen.

  7. Frost says:

    Will never understand your bias for this, if I didnt know better I would think its a bee-train series LOL

    I keep watching it for the gore only, skip all the pointless slice-of-boredom scenes, it gives me satisfaction seeing all those generic characters die one after another

    And god damn, why censor the best part of the anime? “Oh heres an anime based around gore… Except were not showing you any”, yep, makes total sense

  8. mango says:

    You may have your opinion just like any other person; however, I do not see the need to slander other anime in the process. Blood-C is no masterpiece to put up on a pillar.

    Bakatest Ni is not a show for someone like you who is not a fan as it is a sequel and it actually does work in its own context. It is a comedy & thus the acting is very different than something like Blood-C. Each episode certainly looks & feels more different than Blood-C as well.

    I do not dislike Blood-C but it is nowhere near as tight as you describe it.

    Uta-pri is cheesy shoujou & knows it so it acts accordingly. Heck, it even tries to be silly to make it more interesting if you ask me! Every character in that is entertaining in their own way. It isn’t trying to be realistic or anything. Same with Twin Angel, it is silliness for the sake of silliness. The characters in Blood-C really don’t make themselves all that likeable. Also, you always talk about character development and there really is very little in this series aside from Saya more or less…

    I do not see why you should drag other shows through the mud when they are aiming for something different than what you are comparing them to.

  9. furukimono says:

    It’s so nice to read someone who gets Blood-C and doesn’t fall into the whining bandwagon (not that there’s any room left there). Thanks for your reviews psgels!

  10. jzar says:

    Ok so I am going to rant here, sorry about that….

    ***rant starts***

    Did we watch the same episode…it was awesome? How is that so?

    The only thing good about the show to date is the fighting and with the over the top censorship taking out the best bits it too is now a big fail. Truly I could almost like the show for its awesome creatures and fights but not this watered down milk.

    They won’t show violence, they won’t show nudity, perhaps next they plan to show us a blank screen with bleeps over the voices. C’mon is this for real?! How can you watch this and get anything from it.

    How can the main character just stand that with a vacant and blank face and watch her ‘friends’ get killed. It was so unreal and forced.

    She’s been killing the damn things every night for weeks. She’s no blushing virgin monster slayer so why is she acting like one?

    And the worst part of this is the clear direction its going to . The story does not take place in the real world but in some made up mind game.

    So at the end can we now look forward to the tiresome and trite standby of ….wake up little one, it was all in your mind. Just a bad dream. No one was killed but we had fun messing with your head. Bah!

    This is not a story it’s fluff and stuff pretending to have a story. They then dish out this fluff like it’s gold and they are the tightest misers on the planet. How much more mud is a viewer supposed to suck up? I have watched anime that tells a better story in the first 10 minutes that this one has told us in 9 full episodes.

    I for one will give it a big miss from now on. There are many other shows that have a solid story and art.

    ****end of rant***

  11. notintheface says:

    jzar… not getting anything from it… hmmm…

    I hate how the general populace thinks we watch anime for violence and nudity, and losers like jzar are just fanning the flames.

  12. Cytl says:

    The final blow to this series is what jzar said; the resolution of the plot has been pretty much predictable since episode 3 or 4, so all the so called build-up (uninteresting and mundane by the way) has no value. The only good at the beggining was the action, but even the animation of the fight scenes is now of the worst just from this year.
    Nice by the way notintheface, calling people in the internet “losers”. Jzar DID talked about the plot but you decided to focus in just one part of his comment.

  13. Snowolf says:

    @Jzar:

    I don’t know what you guys were expecting when you were watching this show, but it sounds like what you’re looking for is something similar to a pointless plotless show where people’s heads get ripped off and there are naked women around. Blood C is not just a gore show, and if anything, it is not its fault for the censors- I wish people would stop complaining about that and realize that’s a distribution problem. The channel itself decided to censor those scenes, not the show itself. So your complaints there aren’t really going anywhere.

    Saya is not a human being. This is a shock to you, I know, but it’s been kind of shown with her reactions to her classmates more than anything in that she is stupid because she is so oblivious to the environment around her. That is why despite her resolve to protect people, people will inevitably end up getting killed, because she is brainwashed as a machine just to kill the Bairns, but has not comprehended why she must do it, or the value of human life. I agree that watching Saya stand there watching her classmates be mercilessly killed was as much of a disappointment as it was a shock (you think she would have learnt by now) but it only adds to the horror factor.

    I don’t understand your ‘blushing virgin comment’, this is not Saya from Blood + or the Last Vampire. This is a completely different Saya. People need to stop having expectations that cross over from the sister series when really this is just a parallel spinoff and has (yet) nothing much to do with the other two series.

    I’m sorry if you think this show is a disappointment, but you are the exact problem with the anime community- a reason why anime quality has continued to decline, because it just caters to these sorts of desires- mindless violence and such. Congratulations.

  14. Joojoobees says:

    @Snowolf “This is a shock to you, I know, but it’s been kind of shown with her reactions to her classmates more than anything in that she is stupid because she is so oblivious to the environment around her.”

    Look at what he said; he skips over all of those scenes. How people can say they skip over half the show AND say that there is no plot is beyond me, but there you have it.

    THX to Psgels for pointing out that interview, BTW. I have been enjoying the series so far, and it was interesting to hear from the director on the subject.

  15. cheers says:

    Wow you are overrating this show way too much. At least your approach towards Hyouge Mono was more tolerable. It’s neither great nor godawful, but all your praises just sound totally delusional.

  16. psgels psgels says:

    Mango: sorry, I did not mean to drag these through the mud. I merely tried to explain why I didn’t mind Saya’s character, while I did mind a lot of other shows with stupid characters. Taht part was meant to be entirely personal.

    “Will never understand your bias for this, if I didnt know better I would think its a bee-train series LOL”

    Ha ha ha. I’ve been thinking that myself, indeed, but there’s one major difference: with Bee-Train, their characterization always rocks in many subtle ways, while in Blood-C, the characterization is deliberately simple, leading to quite some different effects, but also a few problems here and there. The abovementioned lack of character-development being the biggest one for me.

    jzar: like others have pointed out: the censorship was just TV-station policies. These problems won’t be there for the DVD-releases. If you want just to watch gore and nudity, go for Shigurui, Freezing, High School of the Dead or perhaps even Kemonozume (not that those shows are bad, of course, but they’re much more focused to delivering just that). With Blood-C, what struked me much more is the context in which it’s placed, where the entire setting is deliberately mundane. The atmosphere is very important in this series, so if thst didn’t work for you, I can understand why you’d be frustrated.

    Also, in regards to the claims that Saya just waits for her classmates to be killed off, and how that isn’t realistic, I have two things:
    – First of all, as Snowolf mentioned it has been very much hinted that Saya has a strange concept of the value of human lives, and doesn’t seem to understand that.
    – Second of all: let me ask you, if you saw a random person in danger and you’d have the resources to help him/her out, prevent him/her from getting hurt or potential saving his/her life, would you do it? Or would you just stand motionlessly like everyone else around you? A significant percentage of people bevhaves like the latter. I’ve personally experienced this effect first-hand, and it is very un-settling.

  17. Me says:

    Saya made a promised to the Elder Bairns to kill all the humans to protect their kinds. She’s now remembering bits by bits cause her dad’s influences and the food(drug) she been consuming are wearing off. So why the hell would she try to protect classmates?!

  18. Arisu says:

    I’m speculating here but I assume it really isn’t in her nature to protect humans. Being a vampire, her instinct should tell her that their just food. Her only motivations on killing the elder bairns was the promise she made. One of her classmates said to her in the show, how was she be able to smile when two of their friends were currently missing.

    This being a Clamp show, I’m reminded of Sakura from TRS, the other girl without memories. It wouldn’t surprise me if Sakura is Saya on this show. That the promise is related to getting her memories back. That explains dog Watanuki’s presence.

  19. Mi-Mi-Mikuru says:

    Could you please delete the part about Iorogi being another identity of Kurogane?

  20. jzar says:

    Interesting comments.

    “—-I’m sorry if you think this show is a disappointment, but you are the exact problem with the anime community- a reason why anime quality has continued to decline, because it just caters to these sorts of desires- mindless violence and such. Congratulations. -snowolf”

    My only expectations were to enjoy a good story from Clamp. Really, that’s it.

    I didn’t make the choice to show gore or mindless violence but the anime has made it part of story they wrote. Since they don’t explain the violence it is mindless, i.e. no reason beyond kill the monsters that eat people. I much prefer a show that makes you think and draws you into it’s world because its so interesting.

    Choosing to allow the big white out was very disruptive. The creators could have planned the edits better and or just cut those scenes. They could have then included the deleted scenes in the DVD. Many other shows have done this no problem.

    I don’t know the other stories around Saya. Should I need that background to be able to enjoy it or find it lacking?

    “With Blood-C, what struked me much more is the context in which it’s placed, where the entire setting is deliberately mundane. The atmosphere is very important in this series, so if thst didn’t work for you, I can understand why you’d be frustrated. –psgels”

    I don’t mind the mundane bits, heck I even enjoyed the singing. I do agree it creates great contrasting atmosphere, which is why the censorship was so bothersome. I think this could have been done so much better, they held back too much for too long to really make the story flow.

    I can see why you do like the mystery approach but with so few episodes it can so often then feel like a rushed ending, which I find a tad tiresome and formula.

    I was really wanting this to be a great anime and I don’t think it works as presented. That for me is the real frustrating part…..waiting to understand what is going on in this world. I am just tired of that style of story telling.

    Clamp has a certain reputation because it has made stories that are interesting and entertaining. I just don’t see how this one works as a stand alone story. I will know to expect less from clamp from now on.

    “I don’t understand your ‘blushing virgin comment’, this is not Saya from Blood + or the Last Vampire. ”

    I was referring only to the show itself. The anime has shown this girl killing the elder barin night after night. She has experience, she has been shown in every episode to be very much a veteran combat fighter— ‘She’s no blushing virgin monster slayer’ refers to this fact.

    The story to date hasn’t really explained anything about why Saya does anything. Just extremely tiny hints, which I usually like just fine, but it they didn’t give out enough hints to allow me to understand. Thus her actions make no real sense.

    A mystery is cool, I like figuring things out. Fighting unknown creatures for undefined reasons. Awesome, Great art even better, yet after 9 episodes I feel a bit cheated of story.

  21. mango says:

    “Mango: sorry, I did not mean to drag these through the mud. I merely tried to explain why I didn’t mind Saya’s character, while I did mind a lot of other shows with stupid characters. Taht part was meant to be entirely personal.”

    While apologizing and then still calling the characters stupid kind of negates the apology, as I said, it’s your opinion and your blog. I personally don’t really care for the characters in Blood-C while I enjoy others. To each his own. I just wish you’d learn to phrase things less harshly, but I don’t think many bloggers know how to do that…bleh, don’t mind me…

  22. Spike says:

    The un-edited episodes air on a different station 1 day after the niconico stream so if you wai a little bit instead of gobbling it up immediately you will get your unedited and not be able to complain about edits.

  23. Snowolf says:

    @Jzar:

    Well, the entire REASON behind the show, or rather the main plot of it, is to see WHY these monsters are here, WHY they are eating humans and what this Covenant means. So I don’t really understand how you’re saying that a.) the violence is mindless when the violence is the mystery of the show, and is connected to the mystery of the plot, and b.) how this show isn’t making you think, because it’s making you think quite hard. Not on a level of Mawaru Penguindrum where there are a lot of hidden allusions and symbolisms, but enough to make you question who’s actually part of the facade here and who to trust. Heck, I’m not even sure if I can trust Watanuki- everything in this show is deceptive, from the setting to the ‘father’ of Saya.

    Once again, that is not the show’s problem. That is the network’s problem. I agree that the censors are annoying but there’s nothing you can do about that unless you go and watch it streaming on the unedited channel, or buy the DVDs.

    That’s fine if you think the story could be better- I’m sure every story has a weakness, and by no means is Blood C the best show I’ve ever seen, but I’m quite tired of hearing people complain about it for things that don’t really make sense or are just another way of saying “it’s too slow and since it’s not what i expected it must be bad”. No one said that Blood C would be a pure action based show, and ironically, it’s very character based and takes its time, so I don’t see how you find the episodes rushed at all- if anything, the first three episodes were really slow and repetitious (for a reason), but that’s your opinion so.

    She has experience, she has been shown in every episode to be very much a veteran combat fighter (…) The story to date hasn’t really explained anything about why Saya does anything. Just extremely tiny hints, which I usually like just fine, but it they didn’t give out enough hints to allow me to understand. Thus her actions make no real sense.

    But that’s the entire mystery! You’ll find out, that’s how it works. Once you come to the end, you’ll want to go back and see how it all fits in. Maybe I’m just accustomed to that sort of buildup- for example, in Fringe, it’s the exact same way. It’s obvious that Saya is being manipulated- now, for what, by what, we have no clue as of yet- but we are learning things slowly, and while that may be frustrating for some as they like their answers served on a plate and quickly, I think the pacing is great here. And Saya is NOT a veteran combat fighter- if she was, she wouldn’t get hurt, and she certainly wouldn’t allow other people to die. A veteran combat fighter not only understands the techniques of fighting but the price of a life, and Saya more than anything is just a teenage girl, who is forced to fight these things without understanding why or what she’s exactly supposed to do. She’s going to be confused, in shock, and faulted. She’s not a robotic machine, but she has been raised like one in many aspects- reasons why her relationships with the other classmates are so awkward because she just doesn’t know how to connect with society.

    The biggest complaint I have with this show is the lack of character fleshing for the other characters, but with a 12 episode show it’s not too shabby, I’ve seen worse stuff. But yeah, I admit, that definitely could have been improved on, with all those school scenes before episode 6.

  24. Obsidian says:

    As usual I like the mystery elements of this show the big twist in the episode is that mysterious room and talk of experiments and well the wish being both crucial and out of reach in a way uptil now

    what I loved of this episode is the surprise attack but then it cut off which got me irked but that was very realistic to be in a situation like that is quite scary and saya is the only one who realizes what is happening.

    but bad points: saya acts silly at times too silly.

    secondly: the town seems too quiet even after numerous disappearances which is way too odd.

    I don’t mind subtle and enigmatic but this series needs better execution

    and yeah the interview explained a lot but in my opinion I think 12 eps can have more and still have subtlety.

    I think the action is well and also the elusiveness of characters is to a point good.

  25. furukimono says:

    Why the hell are losers people still watching this show 8 episodes in when all they can say about it is that they hate pretty much everything it does?

  26. Obsidian says:

    @ furukimono

    stop calling people losers :P Listen some people are fans of the blood franchise so they continue watching it. Others have dropped it.

    I am in the middle ground. I like some aspects of the show but hate others.

    I see you are liking the show which is good.

    there’s nothing wrong with disliking and/or liking it if people give their reasons :)

  27. Obsidian says:

    I love comment 17 in this list that makes sense cool thinking

    but yes I don’t get the hint much of how she values human life (probably I missed something somewhere)

    I think that saya’s character is in conflict with her movie self which was somewhat apathetic to human life but this is where then saya is betraying herself by acting so kind and sweet but really the classmates getting killed and she being static was kinda stupid

    because a) saya’s dad and she were kinda prepared for it and b) saya after fighting them for so long did not act in the slightest ready she did the same mistake before and so I expected her a bit different this time it’s ok people are dying but saya’s lapses in concentration is not working out. It’s even something apathetic movie saya tried to dodge.

  28. furukimono says:

    @Obsidian

    Apparently you failed to get my point. I didn’t call people losers because they dislike the show, but because they’re wasting(=losing) their time and energy watching something they clearly don’t enjoy just so they can go around and bitch about it. Not what I’d call productive behavior.

  29. RollingCamel says:

    What’s the point of the censorship?

  30. Dalx says:

    @RollingCamel
    Um…censor? Really I don’t see more to that and if ir irks you (it irks me) just wait for clean releases, it is not the story’s fault (This goes for everyone listing censor as it’s a storykiller)

    I like blood-C and it’s concept but was pretty bored by te first 3 or so episodes but still I’m sticking with it because of the potential that is showing and my faith in CLAMP.

    I don’t really understand why people who hated come and rant in Psgels page about how bad it is. He loves it so? Bias is really impossible to supress and it makes us state things as a fact because they are a fact for us. We just do not think alike.

    CLAMP, someday you’ll cause another cold war with your stories, they polarize people.

  31. M0rg0th says:

    I think, the pacing was chosen badly as creating the contrast between everyday mundanity and supernatural became too much of a focus on the mundanity in the early episodes letting it show only one half of the series with the other half seeming rather banal (the hints in the beginning were rather vague and therefore useless for someone watching it for the first time). But the actual structure of this series is having a story but one being told “out of order” so to speak and I’d like the building-up more if it’d have involved more of a gradual revelation, this series is very slow in that regard to reveal parts of its story to the viewer. Having a story that you completely understand only after having you seen everything is fine but I would like Blood-C to be more engaging with its story instead of trying so forceful to keep the viewer from already getting the story at this point.
    Right now I wouldn’t like to call anything in this series pointless since it’s one of these series that depends completely on the final big revelation but I do worry whether this series will be able to do all the explaining that is necessary to make nothing this far pointless.

  32. Obsidian says:

    @ furukimono

    ok, I did misunderstand you a bit :) but as I said some of the ppl who are fans of the Blood franchise are criticizing which is a given to any franchise but yeah if they had not seen blood before and don’t like it at all and not even the concept of the series then they shouldn’t watch it.

    But some criticisms are valid but personally I have mixed feelings about this show having seen its predecessors. I like remixes and retellings but this one has both extremely good points and bad points.

  33. AidanAK47 says:

    Well I was going to jump in here to bash the show but it seems that everyone got here before me.

    “Compare that to R-15 or Baka To Test to Shoukanjuu Ni, which were just slurs of bad acting and jokes that didn’t work, with nothing that really caught my attention.”

    Yep, Blood-c is a far better comedy that those two.

    (Tokizane sees Saya Covered in blood beside monster chopped in half)
    Tokizane: “Are you badly injured?”

    Saya:”I will not let anyone else die!”
    (Said after five people died right in front of her and she did nothing)

    At this point the shows a joke.

  34. M0rg0th says:

    Well, the dialogue certainly has its flaws creating these unintentionally funny situations ^^ …
    And Saya’s character doesn’t help either, no matter how much sense it makes within the setting to let her behave like that. When she’s too “inhuman” to bother about stuff like logic or common sense, it still doesn’t change the fact that it makes her silly from a human perspective, there are certainly better ways to portray an inhuman character without deciding that “inhuman” is portrayed best by Saya doing or saying things that a normal human would consider irrational or stupid. She also doesn’t do much to progress the story besides depending upon her flashbacks to explain everything to her and the dog giving her the information via tirelessly asking her the relevant questions. And slaughtering Elder Bairns constantly isn’t really the way to go as far as saving the day is concerned since Saya obviously can’t protect everyone (she also doesn’t really try to save everyone because she is just too “inhuman” to understand that concept) and the town-population surely can’t increase with such a death-ratio. But right now it doesn’t seem like Saya is thinking about changing the situation, she still sticks to her known principles despite beginning to have suspicions about the situation. She will probably become more active only once even she has understood what is going on and at that point we’re probably watching the last episode of the series. Well, at least it should give the finale a sense of tragedy when Saya realizes that she should’ve acted much sooner.

  35. fabulous max says:

    that singing ugh

    and LOL@ the fanboys trying to defend their precious cartoon show and calling people “Losers” hahah!

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Amagi
What I acutally find worse are series that make that canon and it happens all the time (not only in anime). Usually female/male though. I have nothing against romance but I hate how proper friendships between men and women can't exist in cartoons/anime. It's so common in real life but media acts if it was an alien concept to them. Maybe because of the target audience I don't know.
Amagi
I think these pairing of friends aren't just the fault of crazy fans, it's because anime often has a problem depticting friendships. Almost all friendships (at least those among girls) are fetishized to no end in order to either add ecchi or cute ambivalent scenes, and people get used to that. There are good examples of friendships, Rakugo is one, a current one would be Sora Yori, but it's rare.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Interesting that it's being updated to modern America though, I imagine the crime figures have changed alot though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I don't like sexualize Banana fishe's protag given how theres line in the manga later on that and I somewhat paraphrase where he speaks of the villain "I can't even remember the number of times Dino Golzine raped me"
Kaiser-Eoghan
Coincidentially as we're on this topic, I just watched the pv for that josei action series Banana fish coming out in July and from skimming the manga years ago , people will be insinuating a relationship between the two leads when its left ambiguous, even though the protaganist has homosexual leanings.
Anonymous1837358
Anonymous1836963 - Well according to some bl tropes, women are built into those stories to block the pairing advances. There's also the one off character that isn't romantically inclined but popular like Floppy in MHA or Bulma in Dragon Ball. I do think it's bad when like in Kingdom Hearts, Sora cries for Riku and was just ok with reuniting with Kairi.
Anonymous1837334
@AK Me again. Watch the epilogue in the last ep of Korra S3!
Anyway, basically we agree, I simply say that with Korra, it's explainable and non-invasive. Like, you'll always have romance shoehorned into mainstream series and Asami >>>>> Mako.
Lenlo
What, women cant be gay?
AidanAK47
@Anon, that's not true. They can still get beat up in order to inspire the boys to fight harder.
Anonymous1836963
It's why Sasuke/Naruto never happened. They had to keep Sakura relevant.
Anonymous1836963
If everyone in Anime were gay, there would be absolutely no use for women in any shonen plot. Sad but true.
Lenlo
The push to make Rakugo into a gay relationship has always annoyed me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Feck, I re-read it, shows how shit my memory is.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, No I didn't. I pretty much ruled it out it as early as episode three. I stated that people thought it and mentioned that it could lead to some interesting story developments. But I made it clear I didn't like the idea and felt it cheapened their bond.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lies it was hulk and iron man not hulk and black window....I mean jesus come oooon like =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
Some crack pairings can be extremely silly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: And I said it after remembering ages ago you said the same about guts and griffith and how people cheapened that relationship.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I also stated that yesterday.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: In fairness initially some of us, yourself included thought he might of been at first before it was clear he wasn't gay.
AidanAK47
Truth be told, it pisses me off. It takes a bond of much deeper meaning and reduces it down to something far more simplistic and primal. Can't be that these two hold a trust for one another that's beyond simple biology. Nope, THEY WANNA BONE.
AidanAK47
But then again, the internet often over interprets friendship as sexual attraction. During Rakugo's airing I see people absolutely convinced that Yakumo was gay. Evidence? One bath scene apparently from his POV which made it seem like he was checking out Sukeroku and the fact that the author made a lot of BL. Other than that, nothing.
AidanAK47
Then again, romance in this series was always the worst written part. So many spontaneous relationships.
AidanAK47
Alright maybe you can make the arguement that later down the line while traveling they gained romantic feelings for each other. I can somewhat buy that. But there, in the last few minutes of the series? Hell no.
AidanAK47
To me it's like the Hulk and Black Widow romance. They had literally no real interaction and yet the internet somehow decided they were a couple. Then they tried to crowbar into the second avengers movie and it was just as awkward and out of place as you would expect.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Nah I don't see it. The two did really have that much interaction. Sure they got closer as seasons went on but never to a romantic level. At best it was about decent friends. Friendship I understand but that does not lead to romance. Both Korra and Asami had heterosexual relationships and no evidence shows them being bi or getting interested in swinging for the other fence.
Anonymous1836097
Yes, it was pandering, but it can be explained and it does make sense. I could complain about many things (like the random pairings), but Asami-Korra is definitely not among them.

PS: Korra was very feministic show, I wonder what's all that about.
Anonymous1836097
Asami was strangely always getting the short end of the stick (no power, noone to lean on... and it was aggravating to see no character to care). They were both betrayed enough times to get scarred and they both realized that (the one) constant around them is their friendship.
Anonymous1836097
@AK I dont consider Legend of Korra a well written show, but it does some things pretty well. Asami-Korra pairing certainly did not come out of nowhere (e.g. S3 last ep) and it makes sense as well.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Right in the KOKORO =O
Kaiser-Eoghan
**larger half of
Kaiser-Eoghan
*episode
Kaiser-Eoghan
For the better half of this weeks after the rain episodes, I was sitting around just watching it do its thing, the second half of the episode particularly near the end was the show at one of of its stronger visual moments and certainly going for the most effecting emotional angle its put out thus far in a way that finally caught me.
AidanAK47
I don't consider Makishima a great villain but one thing I found fantastic was him getting taken off guard by a sudden attack. Loads of anime criminal masterminds somehow plan for every single little detail no matter how unlikely. But this was one case that shows you could plan for ten years and nothing would prepare you for getting suddenly bashed over the head with a motorcycle helmet.
Lenlo
Makishima is a fantastic villain
Anonymous1835766
Kaiser-Eoghan - I think the closest might be Makishima Shogo in Psycho Pass. Just in the opposite sense, showing how flawed an absolutistic system is. Also a scene from that anime, that subverts the notion of how people are shocked by violence.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Moreso than the girls death obsession, I thought the stuff with the mother in the first chapter of yakedo has the potential to go in a more messed up way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But he fails miserably and no one learns from his crimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why can't there be a BENEVOLENT killer character that commits horrible acts solely to shock people and show how horrifying those acts are, out of the delusion that it will inspire a reflection and change in people to NOT, to NEVER do those things.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*higher
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe an abused character is a servant in a historical setting with a hierarchy, trapped in societal rules and defeats the obsession with the attacker and raises up against the class system/character of hire social standing that abused them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Perhaps the cannibal killer character in the story has abandonment, severe paranoia and lonliness issues and sees his crimes as taking people inside him so they'll never leave him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
of psychological depth instead?
Kaiser-Eoghan
For the willingness to throw messed up stuff into stories, I wouldn't mind seeing an analysis thrown in, doing a story about a cannibal character? How about instead of just a gore fest, get inside is head and ask, why does he do this? I hate Ntr and its used as a throwaway turn-on involving rape eroticism, but is there any any way that a story involving that could be framed with some sense
Kaiser-Eoghan
Back on to stuff like goblin slayer, they can take out the rape scenes I wouldn't miss them, although I find them less uncomfortable, BECAUSE they are shown as how wrong rape is, instead of say a doujin playing it up for titilation .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite all the talking up of tsunderes, I actually love kuuderes, in the end probably the biggest reason is for how flat chested they are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Slapstick violence always plays second to dry, dark, screwball or surreal humour.
Bokusen
Also, on tsunderes, me too. I can't stand people using physical violence on someone unless it's in self-defense, or a Fate-type scenario where they all know everyone is trying to kill everyone else. Random physical violence played up as comedy is the worst.
Bokusen
@Kaiser Ah, so it was referring to bondage. I was skimming through posts and must've missed that. Bondage still creeps me out a bit, but if it's a fetish thing I can at least understand the whole exaggerated gender roles thing.
AidanAK47
In regards to Tsunderes, yep that was a bad choice of words there Kaiser. But over time I have come to find Tsunderes more agavating. Tsunderes like Rin are fine but those that beat the crap out of the guy they like and are expected to be forgiven cause they get embarrassed can go straight to hell.
AidanAK47
Also who cares who Korra ends up with? She a goddamn horrible character. I hated her so much.
AidanAK47
Korra was a show that had love realistionships come out of nowhere(And not well written in general) but that one really was just pandering to the Korra/Asami shippers. Not sure where the hell that ship came from to begin with.
Lenlo
I agree Aidan, the love at the end of Korra came out of Left field really
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: It was inappropriate and I shouldn't have said it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Heck one of the reasons I prefer seeing another character with another character or a character simply on their own in a fetish situation is because I can distance myself from it and not feel like I'm touching anything/one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If anything I meant role reversal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I apologize, reading it back it sounds terrible, I was actually referring to bondage where the tsundere pretends to hate it initially but consents .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I should state clearly that that is merely a fantasy. The anger on both sides makes it easier because even if things became more physical or intimate it would feel more distant if the talking part was she and myself saying how much we hated it , despite actualily liking it.
Bokusen
"The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place." OK, reading that just creeped me out.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, well you like screwed up stuff so no surprise.
Try Yakedo Shoujo. Get the feeling you will like that one quite a bit.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Legend of Korra? There was no yuri in that one. No evidence whatsoever. They just had Korra and Asami walk into some light and then announced them gay over twitter. Honesty I didn't see it in the show itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Also was it you that recommended happy sugar life to me? That was a pretty good psychological horror manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Going back several messages, I kind of liked goblin slayer oddly.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Read Sakuranbo Syndrome.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: At the same time I really think more series like after the rain need to come out, showing more sensitive approaches.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nudity/sex just isn't used functionally well enough or dramatically as it should. Come on, give us a story about passionette characters, sensual/erotic rather than only porn. Or do a scums wish where miserable people are doing it because saaaaad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
kuuchuu is really one of those things I need to re-watch, I became so much more open to weirder shows in the past number of years than I would have been ages ago.
Anonymous1832169
I think my excuse in hentai, is that despair, and subjugation adds drama to a very simple thing. Though Dawn of the Silver Dragon may be the peak of objectification.
Anonymous1832214
Sure, np, though I must be off. Again, nice to chat casually. Been off forums for a while. Bye.
PS: thank you gift for anyone not familiar https://myanimelist.net/anime/6774/Kuuchuu_Buranko?q=kuuchuu
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lets talk about the spring 2018 anime season chart: http://anichart.net/spring-2018
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mods, I'm sorry for hostaging/dominating the chat like this I'll change subject.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do think official/canon pairings of characters make more sense definitely, non-canon ones can kind of cheapen characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really really want to say though, I totally am not okay with rape in hentai though and I don't like 50 shades of grey.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To get off this subject, funny little random memory here of reading manga in public, back when I was still into fate, some street person sat down next to me and saw a picture of berserk and said "Oh, he's quite ripped isn't he"
Anonymous1832214
@Anon could be
@Kaiser Srsly youd hate Young's Aflame Inferno - narcissistic manipulative elite MC guy plays a sub to a playful manipulative OP demon woman. I love that so much..!
Kaiser-Eoghan
The old artists valued some interesting takes on beauty too, all of those middle aged larger bodies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Someone has read this and gone off and done an Akira x Satan devilman doujin haven't they?
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the beauty and the beast thing, I wonder if characters like Elias from Mahouyome will become more popular. Monsterboys might end up catching on.
Anonymous1832169
Anonymous1832214 - I think so, I mean we paint angels following that idea.
Anonymous1832214
Thx for the talk guys (and girls). Btw. I'm the guy with weird nicks, Evaluation, Strength, Victim, etc in case anyone's wondering.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think regarding role switching and whether I prefer being dom or sub is definately based on which gender I'm playing, this goes back to the cliches of girl=the submissive character man=is the non-submissive.
Anonymous1832214
There's something about androgynous features, is there?
Kaiser-Eoghan
accept of course for the sensei, who looks like one-punchman.
Anonymous1832214
Seems consistent with your preferences towards domination. Open your heart more and feel the love. They cant help themselves. They need you to get it out. Why not play the mature person, not play the game and accept their flawed selves?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Specifically due the ambiguity.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Houseki's character designs and art is fascinating.
Anonymous1832169
I like the idea of women pretending to be men and men pretending to be women. Not necessarily transgender, just in the sense of playing the role like Hercules and Diomedes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hating them makes it easier/better aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place
Anonymous1832214
I wouldnt mind being a dominated by a (good-hearted) Pandora. So I guess I have no idea how you can even say that...
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lol now we're getting into liking certsin things because their so non-pc =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of me taking on a female role and being dominated by a woman is bizzare to me , taking on a female role and being dominated by a man, yes.
Anonymous1832214
Yeah got it. Like Senjougahara? Lol.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But she still holds on to the delusion that she's in control.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Wait, to be more specific, I was saying I liked the idea of making a tsundere girl submit, with the tsundere becoming the sub.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Youngs manga work better than say, something like ikkitosen/highschool dxd/seikon no qwaser/highschool of the dead because they go all out with the exploitation .
Anonymous1832169
I do see a correlation between the feminine guys in yaoi and the token girls in otome. I swear I don't get why otome and other young girl series, like to play the bad boy and misogynistic treatment of women. I think they we might have lost the point in Beauty and the Beast.
Anonymous1832214
Kaiser... do you know Im Dal Young's manga? Freezing, Unbalance x Unbalance, etc. He often puts the women in the dominant role. He's gotta have a thing for it. I love that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think going back to the complaints of yuri on ice not having enough bite to it, its the same as the fanservice in josei manga with the ambiguous bromances.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a really pretentious guy, I love going into the psychology of it all.
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - As one teacher told me, the most memorable characters are the contradictory ones.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The western side often feels more tokenistic at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The feminine male character exists as a safe zone for the female reader.
Kaiser-Eoghan
No wonder I enjoyed haru deiteita so much, it did the reversal thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet people don't understand this when I say I find tsunderes attractive, what could be more appealing to me than a tsundere ending up losing the dominant role and becoming submissive?
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I think I like that dichotomy, because since manga is already androgynous one does accept it more. Especially since of anime thread the line of making their male characters submissive. Also in a more design sense it might be because there's a power dynamic at play. That's why there's also harassment.
Anonymous1832214
I also agree that yuri is more established and accepted. Particularly in western media, which are starting to catch up? (lesbians everywhere...) Legend of Korra anyone?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The weirdest thing is from my own perspective, when I play the female role in the relationship I understand taking on a more submissive role, yet in a male role, with a women I find being in a non-dominent role impossible.
Anonymous1832214
@Kaiser I'm not going to defend KnM, valid points. Again, it's done enough. And - I have a thing for tragic/platonic love so KnM clicked...
Anonymous1832169
Yuri can be cold, harsh and seduction is usually a weapon. Though a tiring trope is that most stories treat the couple as kind of sister type of affection. Or so I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In terms of the pairings, my headcanon doesn't understand the petite-man thing in male to male relationships relationships/pairings , yet petit women I am obsessed with.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - I do agree. I suppose for me or at least when I did start watching it, it felt more risque, since at least in media lesbians seem more accepted than gay or flamboyant men. So I think the draw for me might be emasculation, because of the uke and seme dynamic. It is said the reason for that is to project their female audiences in more of a dominant role or something like that.
SuperMario
Hmm, I watched few episodes of Sekaiichi Hatsukoi and it's the romance that turned me off. It's just plain secual harassment
Kaiser-Eoghan
In some way its easier to physically work it out mentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which leads to the interesting phenomenon of fudanshiism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bizzarest thing is I am significantly more attracted to women than men yet find shounen-ai/yaoi more of a draw, while admitting the shoujo-ai/yuri stories out there are better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I recall actually liking the music in gravitation at one point.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As silly melodrama it was somewhat watchable.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt that a certain off colour scene with Chikane felt like character assassination.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But the characterization and mecha fights are particularly messy in kannazuki, especially bringing the manga into it where the villains didn't even get 1 second backstories and the framing of the art and panels is poor, with some of dialogue, at least in the dub sounding very silly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Regarding kannazuki, I'm not going to doubt that it a kyoshiro aren't rip roaringly hilarious guilty pleasures, not that this dimnishes the anons take on the female lead.
Anonymous1832214
KnM is trash anime, but very endearing and a treasure. I love it.

(Just passing by, I'm straight male with a thing for yuri genre).
Anonymous1832169
And I think Gravitation is also because music is also part of the plot and not solely the romance. I think the last one I enjoyed was Love Stage but that only had a thing going with one side being biconfused. Though it didn't do anything with that.
Anonymous1832214
Kannazuki no Miko has a heroine who readily accepts her feelings and is in a position where it is very difficult not to empathise. Her love seems very pure and to me is very rewarding to watch.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Yeah but then you have Utena, Aoi Hana, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja, Madoka, and several other series that just happen to have lesbian couples. In terms of good or recognizable shounen ai, it's harder, since I think the most recognizable is Gravitation, followed by (maybe) the Nakamura ones (Seikachi Hatsukoi and his other series).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The manga is even worse than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are truly terrible yuri series though I'm sure, no idea how Kannazuki no miko became a cult thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Sadly there's too much rape in yaoi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Oh, the gender roles thing is terrible in those things. Plenty of gay men are masculine irl.
Anonymous1832169
Borrowed from Japanese 百合 (yuri, “lily”), by analogy to 薔薇 (bara, “rose”), indicating gay men.
Anonymous1832169
Shoujo AI and even Yuri, are more romance than eros. There could be like 10 or more chapters without any intimate action and I suppose that's also part in why yuri tends to achieve better stories.
Anonymous1832169
Also the formula is so transparent that one scrolls to the end, to see ehem, the good part.
Anonymous1832169
And finally like the typical chick flick there's rarely anything important beyond the relationship. I even say those who try a little may be the better ones in this genre.
Anonymous1832169
Now you know what you should expect. Because that's the issue. In Shounen Ai or Yaoi for the most part. Secondary characters have no issue with these relationships. Second problem is that the couple both are put in the male and female part of the relationship.
Anonymous1832169
In defense of yaoi. Do anyone know the meaning behind that word? From Japanese やおい (yaoi), an acronym of Yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi (ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし), "no climax, no point, no meaning
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm actually not even overly interested in either show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But yes, its stupid that yuri on ice didn't go all the way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I believe citrus is actually aim at girls, going by the magazine its serialized in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And a yuri manga would probably be more explicit than shoujo-ai.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well you're comparing shounen-ai to yuri , so of course citrus will be more explicit , just like yaoi would be more explicit than shounen-ai.
AidanAK47
And I am not arguing that gay people can't have fanservice shows. As a matter of fact I am arguing why the bar is so much lower. Yuri on Ice has people fangirling over an "implied kiss" while I look over to the other side to see Citrus reaching second base.
AidanAK47
@Anon, not say you can't like the show but it was queer baiting. The show was comical in how it it made it clear it's characters were gay but didn't even have the balls to show a kiss on screen. Meanwhile you have Citrus here showing two girls having full make out sessions without trouble. I have no interest whatsoever in seeing two men kiss but even I can admit that is bullshit.
KTravlos
interesting conversation. Must say I do not usually react much to the sexuality of characters in anime, but this is partly because I might not see the problem, or because most of the anime I watch have sexuality only incidentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course I don't want to dismiss the fact that hentai manga for gay men exists,if one wanted it there is seinen yaoi, ie Bara manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I attribute it to being less passive than just watching something.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will say, I do think self-insertion is more effective in relation to videogames.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On this I as a bicurious man agree, when I read a romance story, I just want ad like a romance ore relationship story, its not special to me what the race or orientation of characters are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
My brother also felt that romance stories involving homosexual characters often falter in a space where the same sex pairing becomes more about pure novelty than just being a love story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Imredjimmy, who posted on here as a user before, he himself homosexual had issues with yaoi manga, feeling that it didn't address issues properly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
He feels "All romance stories belong in the romance section and shouldn't be too categorized and that most yaoi/yuri isn't really for the homosexual audience"
Kaiser-Eoghan
Is it really fanservice for a homosexual audience though? I do find both male and female characters attractive as a bicurious man but it has to be admitted, shounen-ai and yaoi is really a thing for girls and bi men, I can admit that. My brother, a gay man is very critical of yaoi/shounen-ai as well as yuri/shoujo-ai.
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“How many decades have passed since our drinking contest?” “It hasn’t been that long. It was only a few hours ago, this very night!” That gap in time perceiving plays a significant role in Night is Short. For you see, it all depends on how our perception of the surroundings and time itself can affect […]

Ballroom e Youkoso Review – 65/100

In the weeks leading up to the summer 2017 season, Ballroom e Youkoso was one of the most buzzed-about new series. Produced by the Production I.G. team responsible for the smash hit Haikyuu!!, and set to air on Amazon’s brand new Anime Strike service, the series had no shortage of promotion or hype behind it. […]