Posted by psgels on 15 September 2011 with categories: No.6


Okay, that was the complete opposite of what I expected.

Let’s start with the good parts: this show actually delivered quite an emotional finale, much more than I expected and I don’t just mean in the way I’m going to rant below. Safu’s death, the gunfires, plus the huge explosions. Everything was very well delivered at least. Plus, some of the best background tracks that the series had showed yet popped up.

But seriously. I’m stunned at just how much crap the creators pulled out of their ass! I mean, what the hell? So many bloody things were introduced from out of nowhere it’s not even funny:
– Safu magically controls the bees to first attack everyone and then form giant twisters that bring down the walls of No.6… where the hell did that come from? I mean, I understand the super powers and all, but super powers should not be an excuse to just pull whatever the hell happens to be the most convenient for the script.
– The entire building blows itself up as soon as the main computer gets destroyed? That’s one pretty big design flaw, isn’t it?
– Why didn’t they take Safu with them before blowing the thing up in the first place? There was no guarantee that she had been changed forever.

And BY FAR the worst of all:
– That was one of the most blatant revival scenes I have seen in a long while. Holy crap, the point where Shion revived was utterly terrible. The creators completely used Safu’s powers to pull whatever they want out of their ass. Nothing was built up or prepared for it. Also, Safu: why the hell did you turn into a giant bee? You seriously wasted the best parts of the soundtrack on THAT!? What a waste!

Seriously, at the start of this week, I was pretty much convinced that No.6, Kamisama Dolls and Kamisama no Memo-Chou would end up fighting for the spot of my third favourite series this season. The only one still standing straight after this is KamiMemo. KamiDolls looks to head into an utterly generic conclusion, while No.6 ended up at the complete other side of the spectrum where it tried to do way too much and therefore negated a ton of what it had been building up to. Heck, Blood-C may even enter my top 5 of the series that debuted during the Summer Season because of this.

So yeah, this season of Noitamina was definitely weaker than during the spring season: I do consider both Usagi Drop and No.6 to be worse than Anohana and C. Especially where C surprised me by having an awesome conclusion, this one surprised me by how utterly forced it was. The difference was that with C, everything was wrapped up, it got to make the points it wanted to make, and it had its awesome action. The reset it pulled made actual sense and delivered a wonderful sense of irony. No.6 meanwhile came completely out of nowhere.
Rating: — (Lacking)

27 Responses

  1. Snowolf says:

    Yuuuuuuuuuuuup. But I can’t deny it; we all saw this coming- 11 episodes and you expect a decent dystopian plot? Uh.

    No 6 had a lot of potential, but its treatment of everyone BUT the main two characters was really off putting and just. This finale was a mess. Pretty much a solid 6/10 in my book, sad as it is to say. And I still don’t even understand why Nezumi just uh, decided to jump out and leave? What. Even.

  2. enevi says:

    Oh, I’m so pissed now. They destroyed such a good book. None of these nonsensical scenes happened in the novel. NONE. It was much more complicated and involved some scientific explanations, which are nowhere to be found here. Why, Bones, why? … One big rant is coming to town…

  3. Anca says:

    I wouldn’t say this season’s Noitamina was worse because, while it lasted. it was far more entertaining than last season’s – at least for me. Even if the finale wasn’t perfect – but nobody expected it to be. It did better than I thought it would.

  4. steelbound says:

    Bones flubbing the end of a series, inconceivable! Actually, I saw that coming after only 4 episodes.

  5. JD says:

    Ugh, that was awful. The only parts I loved were the scenes where Nezumi was singing to Shion and at the end, where Shion’s mother was running out. The rest were just…meh. I would have been sold if Shion were dead and Nezumi becomes a “changed man.”

    Has anyone read the novels? If it has a different ending, then I guess I’ll just read the manga (which, I hope, follows the novel more closely).

  6. Lirael says:

    I knew the ending wouldn’t be good, thre was too much stuff to cram in but…I never expected it to be this bad. Worst parts were:

    -Sion revival. This series is supposed to be sci-fi. I can understand a bit of fantasy mixed in…but enough to bring a person back to life? Hell to the no…
    -Nezumi leaving for no reason and Sion not even wondering why…
    -the baby

  7. Snowolf says:

    I heard that in the novel’s ending it’s almost similar but there’s no huge revival scene, though Safu does die in the end (which continues to enrage me like no other). I mean we didn’t even get closure on the Dogkeeper or the other guy, or the other Districts, even, Inukashi’s backstory, nor an actual solid account of Nezumi’s life when he was confined in No.6, or the history of Elyurias. And that’s just the top.

    I found NO.6 to have a pretty mellow plot, but I don’t know- was it me or was this entire cast (except for Shion’s mom and the Dogkeeper) pretty…basic? I don’t know. I tried to find something exemplary in this show and couldn’t find anything. The animation was great in some parts and I like how they added a spice of Slice-of-life to the episodes, but just- way too rushed. Dystopian plots are way too complicated to be solved in 11 episodes, something I’m hoping Guilty Crown will avoid with it being 2 cour. If No.6 had a couple of more episodes, I think it, for the most part, (plot wise) would have been okay, but they tried to reduce it to a very simple one and it just didn’t work out.

  8. Leigh says:

    So disappointing…why didn’t they just keep the novel ending? I suggest anyone who was interested in this series to check out the ongoing novel translations – so far they are way better than even the best episodes out of the series.

  9. brita says:

    The thing that made it believable to me was that it was not Safu anymore, but Elyrurias, a goddess of some type. So I was actually pretty pleased…

  10. koolkittychick says:

    Even with all of the previously mentioned criticisms (and they were all quite valid), I was still willing to root for this series because I loved the interaction between the characters and how they developed their relationships to one another — especially Sion and Nezumi — until the very end. It’s like the only person who stayed in character to the very end was Sion’s mom. I bought the motivations and reasons for her actions, even when she ran to find Sion.

    But all the others? It’s like the creators looked up, realized this was the last episode and pulled a horrendous series of out-of-character plots out of their asses to tie up the frayed edges of plot line in this story.

    I can deal with sad endings, endings I didn’t want — heck, I can even deal with ambiguous endings (like in Sinoun) if it’s told in a way that at least somewhat reasonable and in line with the characters involved. But this…this just left me pissed and asking why?!? for so many reasons.

    While I still loved the series as a whole immensely, this ending definitely marred my enjoyment of it. As far as I’m concerned, No. 6 deserved so much more. :(

  11. kurini says:

    I don’t like the ending at all! The whole episode is just too rushed and doesn’t has any sense, Sion die and then survive… juts…omg, I’m disappointed, oh and the kiss, I didn’t need that!

  12. m says:

    This show was just bad. Probably not as bad as C or Fractale, but pretty bad. I had to catch up on weeks of it, and the villains are annoyingly one-dimensional. They had a pile of bodies, which was the cherry on that comically-evil turd sundae of burning and assorted nonsense. For serious.

    The ending was actually ‘enjoyable’ in the way bad horror movies can be enjoyable, by being so bad they’re funny.

    Just imagine the scene where Nezumi, who has already been shot twice, jumps in front of Sion to take a bullet for him, and then imagine what should happen after that in any sensible universe, assuming the round didn’t penetrate Nezumi entirely and hit Sion anyway. The person that shot him should shoot Sion immediately afterward, because he certainly didn’t plan on just shooting one of them and then playing some cards in the rec room. However, instead Sion takes Nezumi away and performs surgery on him, and then intends to drop him down a chute, escape a collapsing building, etc. That is hilariously bad right there. That made up for all of the regular bad I sat through to get to this point. But it got better, because hahahahaha Sion gets shot trying to escape down the chute, because the guard decides he’s still actually less interested in escaping the building than shooting the fleeing intruders. There are some very dedicated Storm Troopers on the exploding Death Star. He wavered a little when he was thwarted by door technology, but he came through in the end.

  13. Enna says:

    Is it strange that, even with all of those flaws, I still thoroughly enjoyed this episode and don’t mind the ending at all?

  14. evolstar says:

    Wow, that’s one of the worst endings I’ve seen in a while, I practically had whip lash by the end. I knew this ending was coming but still, it pisses me off especially since this show had two of my favorite characters this season. All that development went down the drain. All of a sudden Sion did a 180 and wanted to destroy No. 6- the person who defended it for the WHOLE series.

    By the way psgels, you review had me crying I was laughing so hard.

  15. qwerty1 says:

    God… I saw this coming and I really hoped it wouldn’t happen. From the beginning of this show I saw Shangri-La coming all over again.

    Take a well developed plot/problem that seemed like it would be gradually expanded on and solved in an even slightly logical manner and then they pull a literal Deus Ex Machina out for the final act.

  16. Taara535 says:

    m’s take on the ending was somewhat more enjoyable than the actual show. Some determined stormtroopers indeed!

  17. Seijin says:

    Awful, awful ending.

    This show started out so promising, but went downhill since mid-season and ended in this trainwreck.

  18. consterhk says:

    I felt I had paid for a very expensive buffet and was served a great appetizer and main dish, but it ended with a sucker for dessert.

    I was under the impression that it would be 12 episodes, and that 11 would be an informative episode to build up to the end.. but after seeing this episode, I doubt another episode can save this one…

    I now have high hopes that the novel will answer those loose ends (and there were many!).

    How does Elyurias select who gets infected and who doesn’t? Did she selectively infect and punish the evildoers of No 6 (inhabitants of main city) sparing the people in the districts and outside the walls.. or was it all random? Where does that put Sion? – What about those dream flashbacks Sion and Nezumi had (I thought those bees were evil.. they’re not?)
    Ugh, I can go on and on about those loose ends…

  19. Firechick says:

    Hey Psgels. Have you seen the Nostalgia Critic’s review of the other animated titanic movie? Because I personally think Shion’s revival is nothing compared to the spit that happens in the movie he reviewed.

  20. P-chan says:

    OMG. The Fail of this episode cannot be exaggerated. SPOILERS / First of all, in the novels, Safu lost her physical body when she merged with the giant bee thing. What Shion and Nzumi saw was merely an illusion caused by the Bee Thing so that Safu could see Shion again one last time and say goodbye. This is why she’s never touching anything in the scenes that were in the novels.

    Nezumi was telling Shion to shut up because he realized Safu was really dead and telling her to come with them was pretty cruel.

    Nezumi set the building’s computer to all explode within a certain time limit using the Mother computer where Safu was. Which is why the building explodes.

    Nezumi was shot. Shion was unable to do the surgery. They escape down the shoot and regroup with Dogkeeper and Rikiga and then get medical help for Nezumi from a hospital that Shion knows.

    After Nezumi is saved and the everything else is wrapped up, Nezumi leaves to go on a journey. It wasn’t really said in the summaries, but I think it had less to do with needing to leave and more with not being able to stay.

    This is just my guess, but someone who hates No. 6 like him couldn’t really stay to rebuild it. And you couldn’t expect him to either. Shion wants to stay with Nezumi but chooses to stay and rebuild the city for Safu and his mom and all the people from West Block and the citizens as well. Nezumi does say they’ll meet again, so I assume that he’ll return when the traces of the old No. 6 are gone. But that’s just my guess.

    Also, Dogkeeper keeps the baby. /

  21. AidanAK47 says:

    My reaction while watching….

    “Well ok, the exposition was pretty bad and the bee tornadoes were stupid but still got to give the writers credit for killing off the main char…(Glowing)…no…No…DON’T YOU DARE…NO!NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!”

    From then it was a downward spiral.

  22. Oersted says:

    Ok, let’s be realistic here about the ending: it was rushed, pulled plot devices out of nowhere, a lot of characters were utterly ignored (we never really learn about this “I want to survive” stuff of the dogkeeper) and there are these ugly plot holes around.

    Now, I won’t say something like “who cares?” because those are valid criticisms, but I don’t. Seriously, perhaps I have an ability for suspense of disbelief, but it is very possible to enjoy No.6 from beggining to end. As a matter of fact, the execution of this episode pretty much rocked.

    So yeah, another excelent show ruined by 11 episodes. I still liked it, but it’s really hard to recomend.

  23. Jérémy says:

    The ending pulled lots of things out of nowhere and the almost everything will be fine end was beyond cheezy but…I still really loved it :S It kind of sucked that Sion came back to life but other then that, I was incredibly entertained and I enjoyed it. Even now, a second season would be nice, to see how things turn out after the destruction of No.6. Oh and lol at that rebel guy who wanted Sion’s mother who failed and got himself killed because of the bees!

  24. Pafiume says:

    There were a few things that just bugged me. I agree they should have taken Safu. I mean… What? She was still there when they were talking to her, I doubt she would be COMPLETELY GONE. But whatever, I accepted that.

    Then the two main characters died! Or at least one of them does, and the other would wait for death with the corpse. I was actually okay with that. I thought it was crazy, but it felt really nice to me. It showed realism, they’re trying to escape, but so are other people, and they’re also freaking out and trying to kill the people that fucked them over. I liked that. I ended up liking that Sion died, it was really emotional.

    And then MAGICAL ALIVE! What? Like, what? THAT’s the superpower I don’t like. Magical life giving songs. It just made me laugh, and then giant bee god appears and explodes the roof. I thought the bee was going to blow up Nezumi and Sion, not bring Sion back…

    Even then, I was like, okay, this could still be good. Nice happy ending, I can be okay with this I suppose. And then Nezumi LEAVES. He has literally no reason to leave. They just destroyed the city he’s been obsessed with destroying like all of his life. He just expressed his connection to Sion by rather staying with him and slowly dying than continuing to live on without him. AND YET he will still go on to live on without him. But ya know, let’s fuck it and have him walk away to live alone like a cool guy. God damn it. That’s fucking bullshit.

    I must say I loved that scene with Sion’s mother, though. I think that is the part that makes me happiest, because it’s just so nice to see her so excited to see her son, to be able to be reunited with him. Ignoring the fact that she’s running in a random direction with no idea where he is, while he could actually have FOUND her. Still, it was a great little emotional scene, even if some things still ended up ruining it. And I mean, if he really had died, that would have just been heartbreaking.

    The ending was disappointing. But I did enjoy the series. Honestly I don’t know if more episodes would have helped it, because if this was where the ending was going to head anyway, with random re-aliving and ditching of lovers I’d still be upset. But. I guess this series should be about the ride, not the destination. For me at least.

  25. Denizen says:

    Truly I didn’t find the finale too terrible, and it had enough clever tricks to cover up some plot points or conclude some storylines, even if it couldn’t take care of all of them.

    Honestly I have seen other endings much more jarring and out of place than this one, not that it does excuse giant magical bee tornadoes.

  26. AKI says:

    OK. That was some stupid ending. Jesus Christ, I can’t believe that I was watching the same anime that I was watching a week ago. Seriously wtf happened?

    Bee tornadoes that can knock dawn huge building sized walls? Ugh. Still, the rest of the episodes were top notch – it’s the bad ending that leaves a bitter aftertaste.

  27. Robert2413 says:

    Yeah, the ending was rushed and ultimately unsatisfying. But it was by no means random. In fact, many of Ep 11’s elements were foreshadowed in Ep. 5. Beware of spoilers in the brain dump below.

    Many people found the haunting waltz scene in Ep. 5 to be random, incomprehensible or comic. However, its payload is symbols and metaphor and it was no wonder that Shion found “dancing” so tiring! I believe that its main purpose (in addition to being ravishingly romantic to those of us fond of the BL genre) was to foreshadow the important events at the end of Ep. 11, rendering these events much less random than most reviewers thought. During the waltz, there was a lonely railroad track going towards the horizon (Nezumi’s leaving at the very end and Shion’s feelings about it, which were made far clearer in the novel than in the anime), a ruined tower with two spires (Nezumi and Shion’s difficult relationship, particularly if one pages Dr. Freud and he replies that sometimes a cigar isn’t just a cigar), dancing at the edge of a precipice (pretty much self-explanatory), and the most enigmatic one – a ruined doll lying at the bottom of a puddle of water. If one accepts that the emotional turning point of the series was Nezumi’s tears (shown for an instant after Nezumi crawled close to Shion’s lifeless body, sang his requiem, and finally, broken and fatally wounded himself, prepared to die at Shion’s side), then the ruined doll represented the dead Shion and the water through which we saw the doll was Nezumi’s tears.

    Character flaws undo antiheroes in classic tragedies. Through most of the series, I expected that Nezumi’s hatred of No. 6 and his obsession with destroying it would lead to his annihilation. But it turned out that No. 6’s government was, in fact, more evil than we imagined it could be – a Pandora’s box that finally exploded in Ep. 9, spewing out the worst horrors of 20th-century totalitarianism. Nezumi’s hatred of No. 6’s government and his determination to destroy it was justified in any moral universe I can imagine. Meanwhile, we found out that in his life, Nezumi had somehow endured the unendurable and his final sacrifice, made only for the sake of singing Shion’s requiem, finally unfroze the rusted karmic wheel and justified Elyurias’ healing him and resurrecting Shion.

    Was this more randomness, as many have claimed? Turning again to Ep. 5, it’s clear that Elyurias was a *diety*, which is why she appeared in the stained glass in Ep. 5. Her presence there among other ancient images implied that she had been worshipped for a very long time. In Ep. 11’s resurrection scene, she appeared as a firebird or phoenix, eternally rising out of her own ashes. A billion or so people in the real world believe that a certain Son of God could raise the dead, so why not Elyurias in this fictional one? Deus ex machina is fine by me if there is an actual Deus involved.

    Finally, here’s something to ponder: I believe that Nezumi is probably most interesting gay male character in anime, ever. (And I only threw in “probably” because I couldn’t seen every anime that exists.) Nezumi is entirely unstereotypical (unlike, for example, the swishing “gay” Hero in Tiger & Bunny – just one of many such execrable examples in anime). Nezumi’s behavior is essentially masculine, yet, as it was always done in Shakespeare’s day, he sometimes plays female roles on stage. Because of his mixture of masculine and feminine attributes, it’s unclear if he would take a seme or uke role offstage. He might even switch, depending on his mood. Like most gay men, he became aware of an unformed attraction toward his own gender while still very young (as we saw in Ep. 1). And most important, he *hides* in a painstakingly constructed metaphorical closet. Indeed, the subtext of hiding to protect oneself from pain or destruction pervades the entire anime; almost all of the major characters do it. Nezumi hides his emotions behind a facade of sarcasm and invective. He lives underground in a hidden place containing precious cultural remnants of the old, destroyed world. He is constantly aware of the danger of revealing too much of himself and his shock at the end of Ep. 5, when Shion touches him, comes mostly from the realization that he unwittingly revealed far more of himself than he ever thought was safe. Terrifyingly, Shion didn’t just touched Nezumi’s neck but somehow worked his way under Nezumi’s skin.

    The destruction of the Forest People by gunfire and flames may have been a metaphor for the holocaust in Germany during World War II, in which gay people were among the many oppressed groups who were rounded up and exterminated. Given that one of the Nazis’ main techniques was burning victims alive (as the Forest People were), this works. Although it’s a stretch, the destruction of the Forest People could also be a metaphor for the holocaust that was AIDS for the 15 years after 1980. when it seemed that the dying would never end.

    Finally, No. 6 has been criticized for being too “theatrical” and “melodramatic.” However, there’s nothing wrong with theatricality and melodrama per-se. Wikipedia, in an article that’s well worth reading, defines melodrama as “a dramatic work that exaggerates plot and characters in order to appeal to the emotions.” Melodrama has an honorable tradition going back to at least the 18th century and opera would not exist without it. Thanks to its artifice and distillation of emotion for dramatic effect, melodrama has often appealed to gay men, who are always in some way “outsiders” existing beyond the periphery of the heterosexual bubble inside which most of the world operates – a bubble so all-pervasive that it is hard for those within it to see its borders or imagine that there might be anything else outside. Hence, No. 6’s theatricality makes total sense to me – I’m a sucker for artistically created melodrama!

    Is No. 6 a great sci-fi anime? Not compared to some of its competition – No. 6’s running time is too short to tell the story that it needed to tell and I’m the first to admit that Ep. 11 should have been twice as long. (Could we dream that the Blu-ray release might offer this, given the criticism that Bones got for the rushed finale?) However, thanks to the subtlety with which it handles the BL themes (blink and you’ll miss the defining scenes) No. 6 is one of my favorite anime with BL elements, second only to “Legend of the Galactic Heroes,” which I believe *is* the greatest sci-fi anime ever. (Compared to the Nezumi/Shion relationship in No. 6, in LOGH one can make a stronger argument that Reinhardt/Siegfried is limited to a very intense “bromance.” Or not. But be sure to watch the gaiden before deciding!)

    As always, your mileage may vary. But somehow, No. 6 has worked its roots deep into my brain. Standing out in a field overloaded with clichés and formulas: shonen tournaments, magical girls, moe, harems, reverse harems, ecchi, teenage detectives, and nothing-ever-happens-here-slice-of-life, the depth of No. 6’s subtext and its willingness to take artistic risks has made No. 6 one of my favorite animes of 2011.

Leave a Reply

Kaiser Eoghan
On the upside I loved black mirrors fifth episode, I'm a sucker for war/action-dramas and I particularly liked the tech in this one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah this is impossible for me to sit through, the romance part is also rather dull.
Kaiser Eoghan
Eh, this fourth episode is plodding and trite, feels like a bad, poorly dated 90s film.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Third episode also instilled a great sense of paranoia.
@Kaiser: thanks for that mate. I have too much to say for Flipflappers but to put them all in coherent flow is goddamn hard. And like I said I still fell I left many details out: that gung-ho potato or Yayaka and the twins
@Friend: jugding from the last convention I went to, people loved Re:Zero customs (Emilia and Rem, Ram were highlights. Or you could try RWBY characters (I for once love to see someone cosplay Pirrha Nikos or Velvet Scarlatina)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Didn't care much for new black mirrors second episode, then again I'm not really the target for that story. The third episode while a bit heavyhanded and predictable was suspenseful, nasty/mean and I liked that about it, did in 50 minutes what some thrillers fail to achieve in two hours.
Holo is a good one :0
Materials aren't a problem at all for the most part, except for anything too crazy like working in brass. I'd prefer it to be characters I'm familiar with.
Does it matter to you that they're from shows that you like, or are you just in it for the challenge?
@Friend Aidan has some good ones there. I'd also give the cast of Akame ga Kiru a shot, I don't like the series but it has a lot of neat character designs.
I was thinking simple as I didn't know what kind of materials you got on hand. I was also thinking of Holo from spice and wolf or Kino from Kinos journey either.
Mm, Tatsumaki might be not challenging enough to design for. Doesn't Shiki simply wear either a coat or Japanese kimono? I do work in set design and not in character prop design, but I'd love to try something that would let me reasonably challenge myself.
@Friend, Spit balling here but Tatsumaki from One Punch Man? I know the costume for that one would be simple enough. Or maybe Shiki from Kara No Kyoukai?
*I don't want to do anything too complex for my first try, but I also don't want to do anything boring. Boring would be a character like Rukia or Celty. Any ideas?
I remember talking about this with Emma/Kaiser before, but has anyone here gone cosplaying at an expo before? I thought it would be neat to try designing my own costume and try something else beside drawing on a computer.
@Kaiser, I am up to episode 4. 3 has been the best one so far.Though in all these episodes I pretty much figured out the twist from the get go. Still this shows always tends to get you thinking.
Kaiser Eoghan
I think the roles/identity thing with flipflappers, at least with the protaganist does fit in well with adolescence.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I've only seen the first episode so far. I felt the acting was intentional and reflected the satire Brooker was going for on the shallow nature of society. Bleak as ever but gloriously grotesque.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario:Good in depth reviewing there Mario of flipflappers episode three.
Good god this first episode of black mirror is hard to watch. I know exactly how it's going to turn out but it's just so damn painful to watch.
Well, tbh up to where I've seen there's not much explicit yaoi in yuri on ice, only a lot of fujoshi fuel.
@Kaiser. thanks for the torrent. Gonna blaze through this today.
@Topgavin, as someone who watches a metric ton of anime I am rather surprised at that estimate that 90% of it contains Yuri.
My god those gay scenes in Yuri on Ice are hard to watch for me. Wonder if this is how it feels to be a girl watching 90% of normal anime nowadays.
okay, Flip Flappers episodic review was up. This is my lengthiest weekly review so far and I still feel I missed a lot of points. Damn you Flip Flappers
Kaiser Eoghan
You have seen the light, not needing to know everything thats happening to enjoy something ^_^
Kaiser Eoghan
I've given some consideration to reviewing that oujia film followup.
Whether you see one or the other is entirely up to your preferences, so it makes no difference to me which is worse. I have gotten very tired of generic character types, but again that's just because of the things I decide to regularly follow.
I will say if it must come down to either unnatural dialogue or unnatural character types, at leas the character type is speaking their own words and not the words of the script writer.
Or was that a black and white fallacy? Maybe it was a little of both.
@Realjustified, K-Off wasn't agreeing with me. That's a Moving the Goal Posts logical Fallacy but well I will answer regardless. Honestly it's preferable to have neither. The big mistake you are making here is that you are putting down a condiction that a show must have one or the other. But both cartoons and anime can have both. I just think it's a lot more prominent in cartoons than anime.
Like, having read hundreds of harem manga over the years, a majority of the ultimate love interest always happens to be the first girl the protagonist meets.
Wait wait wait wait. Aidan and K-Off. I get that dialogue in cartoon can seem like it was written by a script writer, but at the same time, lots of anime have characters whose sole purpose is entirely scripted. The whole spectrum of "deres" and everything. What do you think is worse? Unnatural dialogue, or unnatural character types?
You guys should really go fuck yourself, it's a solution and it's nothing short of great!
You guys should really watch the first 4 episodes of Bungo, it's a prequel and it was nothing short of great!
omg!! I just realized To be Hero was one of the show that I reviewed its 1st episode back in Chinese Animation post. I watched raw then though
forgive me if I'm a bit too overwhelmed by Flip Flappers... For this episode alone I took like 25 screenshots...trying to write a review now...
I have absolutely no idea what is going on in Flip Flappers plot. And yet for some reason I am OK with that.
Anyone out there that's a fan of crude humor should go watch ep.3 of To Be Hero. Certinately stepped it up a notch from the last two humor-wise.
One downside I can think of already is that I'm bound to lose or break one of the detachable controllers. The cost for those pieces is what I'm most interested in.
Nintendo Switch hmm? Honestly it looks too good to be true. I expect some major downsides to this thing.
I like cartoons, don't get me wrong. Certainly good for a change of pace. But there is something about the way they are written that I find rather distracting.
I don't know, maybe if I said it's like the difference from how characters talk in movie vs how characters talk in a sitcom?
@K-Off, I said one liner's or jokes. Not one liner jokes. It's hard to explain. Basically when I hear a conversation in anime even if it is based in stereotypes, it at least feels like a conversation that's being had in the moment. In cartoons however there is a layer of artificiality and it feels like characters know what a person is going to say and has a response prepared.
That's probably why some of my favorite anime in recent years haven't been very heavy on character archetypes, or were either parodies of it.
Comedic dialogue with anime in recent years have leaned too much on the idea of playing off character archetypes. The collected character vs the energetic character, for one. I'd like to see more variety. Some more word play, hyperbolic humor, body humor, etc etc.
@Aidan Not quite sure what you mean by that, because it's certainly not even a majority of cartoons that rely on cheap one liner jokes. I suppose it's entirely up to taste, but I can appreciate the energy in cartoons like Steven Universe or Regular Show when compared to the increasingly repetitive dialogue found in some recent anime.
@Topgavin: I just read that review and his main reason being Shelter is pretentious. oh well! Can't never please anyone.
Thought I'd check out the reviews for Shelter on MAl and the top review is a 1/10. Apparently because it's a cute girl we sympathise with her more, which is bad because reasons. I mean.. what? MAL never ceases to amaze me
@Mario, no. It's more that the dialogue keeps trying to push out one liners or jokes regardless of whose talking.
@Aidan: maybe because they spoke in your native language do you can feel that it's artificial, ya know? I know I have the same problem with Vietnamese drama/ cartoon and maybe Japanese people have that same issues with anime?
By which I mean, the way characters talk in cartoons is very...artificial. Like you can tell that the dialgoue was clearly written beforehand and it never really sounds natural. At least to me.
@Anon, I wouldn't. The writing and structure are too cartoon. What with the episodic nature and dialogue that generally pushes for a comedic tone.
Kaiser Eoghan
Flanagan also directed absentia which I haven't seen yet but I think someone I came across of 4chan linked it to being lovecraftian?
Kaiser Eoghan
Oculus was a film of two halves for me. Hush was a pretty standard home invasion thriller, making the victim deaf was an interesting twist but not as unique as you might think, still suspenseful though.
Kaiser Eoghan
I never saw the first oujia film. Though Mike Flanagan who did the sequel, he's never made a bad movie but he's never really made a great one either.
Kaiser Eoghan
I stick to the firm belief that cartoons and anime, visually should do and be their own thing. I'll prefer a western artstyle for cartoons rather than one pretending to look like anime style.
But this is a good topic and I'm sure everyone has their own opinions so I'm looking to hear some more arguments
@anon352392: no they aren't. For me not because of where their production based, nor their intended audience, but rather their styles, both visually and storytelling-ly, are different
Anime,” they assert, is not a “style” of illustration or animation.
That's where I differ to those guys. For me, anime is a style. In that sense, I consider RWBY, and Canadian-produced short Flutter as an anime. Thunderbolt Fantasy is not and anime-influence shows/movies that are intented for Western audience like AniMatrix or Afro Samurai are anime
@Anon nah they wouldn't be because they aren't made by a japanese producer for the japanese market. Quality isn't the question, production is
NX and Red Dead Redemption 2 trailers tomorrow.
They are good series and i honestly like them alot more than most anime series, would their quality make them anime?
What about cartoons like Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Wander Over Yonder, Star Vs The Forces Of Evil?
In other news a sequel to an absolutely terrible horror movie called Ouija is out and it's...actually pretty good? Wondering if critics were paid off or it is legit good. Well it did have the guy who was behind Oculus and that was a pretty good movie.
Simplify the term down enough and anime is literally anything animated but the whole point of the term is to distinguish it. For to call Spongebob an anime makes me want to projectile vomit. Point is this, you say you watched a cartoon, people think Tom and jerry, Scooby doo etc. You say you watched an anime, people think Cowboy bebop, Attack on titan, etc. Whole point of the term.
For example, I don't consider Avatar or RWBY to be anime for while they use anime style, the writing is fundamentally structured like an American cartoon. Through I would consider Bloodivores an anime even though it was made by a Chinese animation company, making it technically a Chinese cartoon.
As far as what is and isn't anime I honestly think of the term as a means of distinguishing it from cartoon which gives the impression of being for children. It's like Graphic novel is to comic book. Though techically graphic novels are issues of comics bound in book form, the term Graphic novel is often used to distinguish works that go above superhero comics and whatnot.
Basically I think it was due to Porter Robinsons involvement that they didn't consider it anime.
@Aidan: Did the mods give any concrete reasons why they didn't consider it an anime?
@Mario, It wasn't the community that had the problem. It was the mods. The community made it pretty clear that they considered it anime.
So despite the art style is obviously anime, the character speaks in Japanese, and the production was animated by A1 Studios, it's not an anime? Sometimes I feel sad that the anime community keeps limiting themselves with such fixed minds.
I saw it yesterday and yes it was good. For a 5-minute story, they don't make it too overwhelme with details, and still pack an emotional punch. Moreover it elevates the song. Good stuffs.
Shelter was quite good though. It works well and the animation was beautiful. Song is not bad either. It's got a nice emotional punch to it though it's a bit simple a story.
Well anyway I only saw all this because I checked out the video for the first time and wanted to see how others thought of it with a quick scan through reddit. And I get this shitshow instead.
Playing the victim is the one really pisses off the internet. For refusing to admit you f*cked up only encourages people to shove how you f*cked up into your face. That's what really grinds peoples gears.
Yep, seen that too. The mods even put up another tread about the video and tried to guilt trip people by saying they got death threats. Look, internet rules 101. If you said or did something stupid admit to it and just walk away. Do not try to deflect blame or play the victim, that only adds fuel to the fire.
@Aidan oh yeah saw that live lol. Porter himself even commented on twitter about it, gotta love internet drama
So did anyone happen to catch the big old shitstorm of that Shelter music music when a mod of the Anime subreddit decided it wasn't "Anime" enough and removed the discussion post about it? Oh internet drama...what silly nonsense.
Finally caught up with JoJo. Diamond is Unbreakable has turned out to be much better than Stardust Crusaders. Should have waited for the season to finish through as I really loved marathoning it.
I had a feeling that might be the case considering the source materail for luger.
@Mario Oh I watched that, certinately worth it. Packed more story that some 12-episode shows do nowadays and gorgeous animation.
and I will check out "Shelter" music video to see what all the fuss is about
*this weekend to be exact.
Sounds like Luger Code 1951 is an OVA that will air next week, the same air date with "my" Zaregoto OVA.
@Mario: doesn't sound real at all to me lol
@Mario, I might be able to manage. If all else fails I can talk about the past of these historical figures.
While I don't mind watchinng Drifters, I swaer if I had to cover that show, I couldn't come up with anything to say.
Do you guys know what language the fairies speak in Drifters? It does sound like a genuine language
@topgavin: humanity has declined is a great show. It has good writing and dark, witty sense of humor. I could talk about it in length but psgels pretty much covered it all. He was really impressed by that show however.
That should be me covered till the weekend. Why do all my shows air on the weekend...
@Mario nah I've watched the whole thing but I'd heard about it at the start of this year and put it off. The dialogue between her and the fairies was great stuff, probably gonna rewatch it this weekend now that you mention it
Alright, I got three posts written up and will be throwing them out in about two hours or do.
I thought you've finished it. Yeah I love her character a lot, so cynical but witty. My favorite moment was when she read about fairy's plan to invent religions. She was like "so religions are invented?" (beat) "I've learn something new today". Priceless
@Mario Oh nice, it was one that I had heard about but never got round to. To put it in simple anime terms, Watashi is best girl
@topgavin: I just finished the series yo mentioned the other day: humanity is declined. Man, I love it. I know now I have a thing for dark twisted absurdist anime
@Ano340004: the name is Watashi ga Motete Dousunda, or to put it short Motete. I have fun with it but i'm not that enthuastic
@anon the english name is Kiss him, not me. Search through the first impressions if you need the jap name.
then that girl really loves BL (boy love)
what is the name of the anime that the girl is fat and then she got depressed because her favorite boy anime died then she got thin?
Season 7 is awesome so far too. It feels like the tone of the show is finally back to normal and it feels like Adventure Time again.
Whew, I binged all seasons of Adventure Time this weekend. The show hit a low spot in Season 6 but I think it needed to happen...Poor Finn needed the serious character development after what he did to FP.
You guys are too hard on it
Motete is very funny
Kaiser Eoghan
When it comes to gag manga and four-koma, I just eventually reach a stopping point with a comedy series in that format. Even with hidamari sketch.
I think it was typical light novel trash based on what was in the PV. I laughed that despite it being horrible that the crowd still cheered anyway, likely because it had a bath clip in it.
The PV was hilarious. I had no idea what the anime was about.
@Aidan I'm good, I'll stick with Working.
@K-Off, you could switch to something like Gi(a)rlish Number if you like. I for one am really digging the satire of the show. Plus I like that it's basically showing how an utter train-wreck of an anime can be made. That PV in the last episode was truly painful.
Feeling pretty disappointed with Working. I haven't gotten any more cynical with comedies, at least I don't think, and its flaws are so irritating.
@Adam Le, I find that with Comic book dialogue. Which is one of the reasons I have gone off marvel movies. Cartoons have it to a degree as well.
I love the instagram shots in Yuri
Maybe I can have a watch through those live action films and do a compare/contrast to see which version works better. After all movie and tv series are 2 different medium, and live-action vs animation is the topic that we never get tired of
speaking of which, the overlap between anime and live-action adaptation from manga is overwhelming. For this year alone, there were Erased, 3-gatsu no Lion, Fune o Amu, orange, and Chihayafuru (part 1&2). Those were just the ones I know.
@Adam: Don't know which genre you're into but you can try Fune o Amu (The Great Passage)
Adam Le
I can't seem to get into any of these new shows. I don't know, the dialogue always seems off to me and the forced comedy is a big turn off.
Reminds me of a thought I had when I was last at the Getty art museum. People walking past works of art hundreds of years old, but only taking a second-long glance before moving on to the next one. Not their fault really, it's only the professional critics who can understand what they see with depth.
I'm the opposite really, they're getting paid for what they said so they better know their shits
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose I'm slightly envious of professional critics somewhat.
Sometimes you're just meant to experience the ride you know. I don't watch those explained video anymore because after all it's just one guy's opinions.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
And I mean people who art professionals or students.
Kaiser Eoghan
I guess I'm just unsure of something, how many people watching "arty" stuff are able to pick it up on their own. By looking up an "explained video" or "explained essay" to get it, am I copping out?
Kaiser Eoghan
I feel like I've begun getting on board with the european art stuff but am really only scratching the surface with the Chinese and that stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
And find myself missing whats going on sometimes.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll admit I do find it frustrating, that even though I can like art films, emotionally connect at times, appreciate the visual techniques and admire them for being so different without looking up analysis by people far smarter than myself I honestly feel lost sometimes as to the meaning.
@Kaiser: Apichatphong Weerseethakul's films are so otherworldly and spiritual that I wouldn't dare to call them "dreams" anymore. Check out his "Uncle Boonmie", "Syndromes and a Century", "Cemetery of Splendors". he has such singular vision that just watch and experience his films are rewarding enough
@afgm: well, if we really go over-analyze it, bunnies can represent desire for example ^^
like eating sweet snow is so randomness for me
@Badesh: the things you said might be something I might do in the future. After all I love dissecting symbolism. But for Flip Flappers I need to know more what are intentional and what are randomness first
So Papika is corrupting Cocona? That would make some sense I guess
I mean I guess bunnies represent purity? Maybe?
@Kaiser: I mean yeah I get that things can be beautiful just because they're beautiful. But the effort comes in trying to connect that beauty and symbolism to the story as a whole, which is something I honestly struggle to do with Flip Flappers. It just seems pretty gratuitous at this point.
I don't know I think flip flappers is probably deeper than people might give it credit for. I just don't have the time or energy to piece together the abstraction. Doesn't mean that the meaning doesn't exist, it's just hard (and possibly misguided) to uncover it on the first run through.
but i don't want to get into a "who is right" argument. it was just a wish of mine to get to know the persons view of the world and not just be part of his daily mood
yeah, but i could happen that you grow intelectual but not personal ;)
Kaiser Eoghan
But theres no shame in watching a heavily thematic arthouse thing, liking it then going "didn't quite get/catch that" then looking up what it means.
Kaiser Eoghan
But for going into things, analyzing them, I wasn't saying thats wrong, when I meant overanaylsis I meant people making shit up that isn't actually there.
Kaiser Eoghan
And going too deep into thinking about that image shows the person is failing to understand that they were supposed to interact with it on an emotionally or spiritually intellectual level.
Kaiser Eoghan
Rather than de-mystifying that image or losing its enigma.
Kaiser Eoghan
I just think sometimes people forget that things can be entirely impressionistic or expressionist, people sometimes forget that images don't necessarily need a giant essay behind them or meaning or analysis. What I mean is you can have a 15 minute stretch of gorgeous looking images but the point is that you feel that or see the imagination and creativity because its beautiful.
It requires an understanding and a concept of life of the reviewer that highlights the right things, the things that widens the readers perspective, based on the narrow popculture consicousness that we have, sorry to be that dramatic...
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