Posted by psgels on 15 September 2011 with categories: No.6



Wut?

Okay, that was the complete opposite of what I expected.

Let’s start with the good parts: this show actually delivered quite an emotional finale, much more than I expected and I don’t just mean in the way I’m going to rant below. Safu’s death, the gunfires, plus the huge explosions. Everything was very well delivered at least. Plus, some of the best background tracks that the series had showed yet popped up.

But seriously. I’m stunned at just how much crap the creators pulled out of their ass! I mean, what the hell? So many bloody things were introduced from out of nowhere it’s not even funny:
– Safu magically controls the bees to first attack everyone and then form giant twisters that bring down the walls of No.6… where the hell did that come from? I mean, I understand the super powers and all, but super powers should not be an excuse to just pull whatever the hell happens to be the most convenient for the script.
– The entire building blows itself up as soon as the main computer gets destroyed? That’s one pretty big design flaw, isn’t it?
– Why didn’t they take Safu with them before blowing the thing up in the first place? There was no guarantee that she had been changed forever.

And BY FAR the worst of all:
– That was one of the most blatant revival scenes I have seen in a long while. Holy crap, the point where Shion revived was utterly terrible. The creators completely used Safu’s powers to pull whatever they want out of their ass. Nothing was built up or prepared for it. Also, Safu: why the hell did you turn into a giant bee? You seriously wasted the best parts of the soundtrack on THAT!? What a waste!

Seriously, at the start of this week, I was pretty much convinced that No.6, Kamisama Dolls and Kamisama no Memo-Chou would end up fighting for the spot of my third favourite series this season. The only one still standing straight after this is KamiMemo. KamiDolls looks to head into an utterly generic conclusion, while No.6 ended up at the complete other side of the spectrum where it tried to do way too much and therefore negated a ton of what it had been building up to. Heck, Blood-C may even enter my top 5 of the series that debuted during the Summer Season because of this.

So yeah, this season of Noitamina was definitely weaker than during the spring season: I do consider both Usagi Drop and No.6 to be worse than Anohana and C. Especially where C surprised me by having an awesome conclusion, this one surprised me by how utterly forced it was. The difference was that with C, everything was wrapped up, it got to make the points it wanted to make, and it had its awesome action. The reset it pulled made actual sense and delivered a wonderful sense of irony. No.6 meanwhile came completely out of nowhere.
Rating: — (Lacking)

27 Responses

  1. Snowolf says:

    Yuuuuuuuuuuuup. But I can’t deny it; we all saw this coming- 11 episodes and you expect a decent dystopian plot? Uh.

    No 6 had a lot of potential, but its treatment of everyone BUT the main two characters was really off putting and just. This finale was a mess. Pretty much a solid 6/10 in my book, sad as it is to say. And I still don’t even understand why Nezumi just uh, decided to jump out and leave? What. Even.

  2. enevi says:

    Oh, I’m so pissed now. They destroyed such a good book. None of these nonsensical scenes happened in the novel. NONE. It was much more complicated and involved some scientific explanations, which are nowhere to be found here. Why, Bones, why? … One big rant is coming to town…

  3. Anca says:

    I wouldn’t say this season’s Noitamina was worse because, while it lasted. it was far more entertaining than last season’s – at least for me. Even if the finale wasn’t perfect – but nobody expected it to be. It did better than I thought it would.

  4. steelbound says:

    Bones flubbing the end of a series, inconceivable! Actually, I saw that coming after only 4 episodes.

  5. JD says:

    Ugh, that was awful. The only parts I loved were the scenes where Nezumi was singing to Shion and at the end, where Shion’s mother was running out. The rest were just…meh. I would have been sold if Shion were dead and Nezumi becomes a “changed man.”

    Has anyone read the novels? If it has a different ending, then I guess I’ll just read the manga (which, I hope, follows the novel more closely).

  6. Lirael says:

    I knew the ending wouldn’t be good, thre was too much stuff to cram in but…I never expected it to be this bad. Worst parts were:

    -Sion revival. This series is supposed to be sci-fi. I can understand a bit of fantasy mixed in…but enough to bring a person back to life? Hell to the no…
    -Nezumi leaving for no reason and Sion not even wondering why…
    -the baby

  7. Snowolf says:

    I heard that in the novel’s ending it’s almost similar but there’s no huge revival scene, though Safu does die in the end (which continues to enrage me like no other). I mean we didn’t even get closure on the Dogkeeper or the other guy, or the other Districts, even, Inukashi’s backstory, nor an actual solid account of Nezumi’s life when he was confined in No.6, or the history of Elyurias. And that’s just the top.

    I found NO.6 to have a pretty mellow plot, but I don’t know- was it me or was this entire cast (except for Shion’s mom and the Dogkeeper) pretty…basic? I don’t know. I tried to find something exemplary in this show and couldn’t find anything. The animation was great in some parts and I like how they added a spice of Slice-of-life to the episodes, but just- way too rushed. Dystopian plots are way too complicated to be solved in 11 episodes, something I’m hoping Guilty Crown will avoid with it being 2 cour. If No.6 had a couple of more episodes, I think it, for the most part, (plot wise) would have been okay, but they tried to reduce it to a very simple one and it just didn’t work out.

  8. Leigh says:

    So disappointing…why didn’t they just keep the novel ending? I suggest anyone who was interested in this series to check out the ongoing novel translations – so far they are way better than even the best episodes out of the series.

  9. brita says:

    The thing that made it believable to me was that it was not Safu anymore, but Elyrurias, a goddess of some type. So I was actually pretty pleased…

  10. koolkittychick says:

    Even with all of the previously mentioned criticisms (and they were all quite valid), I was still willing to root for this series because I loved the interaction between the characters and how they developed their relationships to one another — especially Sion and Nezumi — until the very end. It’s like the only person who stayed in character to the very end was Sion’s mom. I bought the motivations and reasons for her actions, even when she ran to find Sion.

    But all the others? It’s like the creators looked up, realized this was the last episode and pulled a horrendous series of out-of-character plots out of their asses to tie up the frayed edges of plot line in this story.

    I can deal with sad endings, endings I didn’t want — heck, I can even deal with ambiguous endings (like in Sinoun) if it’s told in a way that at least somewhat reasonable and in line with the characters involved. But this…this just left me pissed and asking why?!? for so many reasons.

    While I still loved the series as a whole immensely, this ending definitely marred my enjoyment of it. As far as I’m concerned, No. 6 deserved so much more. :(

  11. kurini says:

    I don’t like the ending at all! The whole episode is just too rushed and doesn’t has any sense, Sion die and then survive… juts…omg, I’m disappointed, oh and the kiss, I didn’t need that!

  12. m says:

    This show was just bad. Probably not as bad as C or Fractale, but pretty bad. I had to catch up on weeks of it, and the villains are annoyingly one-dimensional. They had a pile of bodies, which was the cherry on that comically-evil turd sundae of burning and assorted nonsense. For serious.

    The ending was actually ‘enjoyable’ in the way bad horror movies can be enjoyable, by being so bad they’re funny.

    Just imagine the scene where Nezumi, who has already been shot twice, jumps in front of Sion to take a bullet for him, and then imagine what should happen after that in any sensible universe, assuming the round didn’t penetrate Nezumi entirely and hit Sion anyway. The person that shot him should shoot Sion immediately afterward, because he certainly didn’t plan on just shooting one of them and then playing some cards in the rec room. However, instead Sion takes Nezumi away and performs surgery on him, and then intends to drop him down a chute, escape a collapsing building, etc. That is hilariously bad right there. That made up for all of the regular bad I sat through to get to this point. But it got better, because hahahahaha Sion gets shot trying to escape down the chute, because the guard decides he’s still actually less interested in escaping the building than shooting the fleeing intruders. There are some very dedicated Storm Troopers on the exploding Death Star. He wavered a little when he was thwarted by door technology, but he came through in the end.

  13. Enna says:

    Is it strange that, even with all of those flaws, I still thoroughly enjoyed this episode and don’t mind the ending at all?

  14. evolstar says:

    Wow, that’s one of the worst endings I’ve seen in a while, I practically had whip lash by the end. I knew this ending was coming but still, it pisses me off especially since this show had two of my favorite characters this season. All that development went down the drain. All of a sudden Sion did a 180 and wanted to destroy No. 6- the person who defended it for the WHOLE series.

    By the way psgels, you review had me crying I was laughing so hard.

  15. qwerty1 says:

    God… I saw this coming and I really hoped it wouldn’t happen. From the beginning of this show I saw Shangri-La coming all over again.

    Take a well developed plot/problem that seemed like it would be gradually expanded on and solved in an even slightly logical manner and then they pull a literal Deus Ex Machina out for the final act.

  16. Taara535 says:

    m’s take on the ending was somewhat more enjoyable than the actual show. Some determined stormtroopers indeed!

  17. Seijin says:

    Awful, awful ending.

    This show started out so promising, but went downhill since mid-season and ended in this trainwreck.

  18. consterhk says:

    I felt I had paid for a very expensive buffet and was served a great appetizer and main dish, but it ended with a sucker for dessert.

    I was under the impression that it would be 12 episodes, and that 11 would be an informative episode to build up to the end.. but after seeing this episode, I doubt another episode can save this one…

    I now have high hopes that the novel will answer those loose ends (and there were many!).

    How does Elyurias select who gets infected and who doesn’t? Did she selectively infect and punish the evildoers of No 6 (inhabitants of main city) sparing the people in the districts and outside the walls.. or was it all random? Where does that put Sion? – What about those dream flashbacks Sion and Nezumi had (I thought those bees were evil.. they’re not?)
    Ugh, I can go on and on about those loose ends…

  19. Firechick says:

    Hey Psgels. Have you seen the Nostalgia Critic’s review of the other animated titanic movie? Because I personally think Shion’s revival is nothing compared to the spit that happens in the movie he reviewed.

  20. P-chan says:

    OMG. The Fail of this episode cannot be exaggerated. SPOILERS / First of all, in the novels, Safu lost her physical body when she merged with the giant bee thing. What Shion and Nzumi saw was merely an illusion caused by the Bee Thing so that Safu could see Shion again one last time and say goodbye. This is why she’s never touching anything in the scenes that were in the novels.

    Nezumi was telling Shion to shut up because he realized Safu was really dead and telling her to come with them was pretty cruel.

    Nezumi set the building’s computer to all explode within a certain time limit using the Mother computer where Safu was. Which is why the building explodes.

    Nezumi was shot. Shion was unable to do the surgery. They escape down the shoot and regroup with Dogkeeper and Rikiga and then get medical help for Nezumi from a hospital that Shion knows.

    After Nezumi is saved and the everything else is wrapped up, Nezumi leaves to go on a journey. It wasn’t really said in the summaries, but I think it had less to do with needing to leave and more with not being able to stay.

    This is just my guess, but someone who hates No. 6 like him couldn’t really stay to rebuild it. And you couldn’t expect him to either. Shion wants to stay with Nezumi but chooses to stay and rebuild the city for Safu and his mom and all the people from West Block and the citizens as well. Nezumi does say they’ll meet again, so I assume that he’ll return when the traces of the old No. 6 are gone. But that’s just my guess.

    Also, Dogkeeper keeps the baby. /

  21. AidanAK47 says:

    My reaction while watching….

    “Well ok, the exposition was pretty bad and the bee tornadoes were stupid but still got to give the writers credit for killing off the main char…(Glowing)…no…No…DON’T YOU DARE…NO!NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!”

    From then it was a downward spiral.

  22. Oersted says:

    Ok, let’s be realistic here about the ending: it was rushed, pulled plot devices out of nowhere, a lot of characters were utterly ignored (we never really learn about this “I want to survive” stuff of the dogkeeper) and there are these ugly plot holes around.

    Now, I won’t say something like “who cares?” because those are valid criticisms, but I don’t. Seriously, perhaps I have an ability for suspense of disbelief, but it is very possible to enjoy No.6 from beggining to end. As a matter of fact, the execution of this episode pretty much rocked.

    So yeah, another excelent show ruined by 11 episodes. I still liked it, but it’s really hard to recomend.

  23. Jérémy says:

    The ending pulled lots of things out of nowhere and the almost everything will be fine end was beyond cheezy but…I still really loved it :S It kind of sucked that Sion came back to life but other then that, I was incredibly entertained and I enjoyed it. Even now, a second season would be nice, to see how things turn out after the destruction of No.6. Oh and lol at that rebel guy who wanted Sion’s mother who failed and got himself killed because of the bees!

  24. Pafiume says:

    There were a few things that just bugged me. I agree they should have taken Safu. I mean… What? She was still there when they were talking to her, I doubt she would be COMPLETELY GONE. But whatever, I accepted that.

    Then the two main characters died! Or at least one of them does, and the other would wait for death with the corpse. I was actually okay with that. I thought it was crazy, but it felt really nice to me. It showed realism, they’re trying to escape, but so are other people, and they’re also freaking out and trying to kill the people that fucked them over. I liked that. I ended up liking that Sion died, it was really emotional.

    And then MAGICAL ALIVE! What? Like, what? THAT’s the superpower I don’t like. Magical life giving songs. It just made me laugh, and then giant bee god appears and explodes the roof. I thought the bee was going to blow up Nezumi and Sion, not bring Sion back…

    Even then, I was like, okay, this could still be good. Nice happy ending, I can be okay with this I suppose. And then Nezumi LEAVES. He has literally no reason to leave. They just destroyed the city he’s been obsessed with destroying like all of his life. He just expressed his connection to Sion by rather staying with him and slowly dying than continuing to live on without him. AND YET he will still go on to live on without him. But ya know, let’s fuck it and have him walk away to live alone like a cool guy. God damn it. That’s fucking bullshit.

    I must say I loved that scene with Sion’s mother, though. I think that is the part that makes me happiest, because it’s just so nice to see her so excited to see her son, to be able to be reunited with him. Ignoring the fact that she’s running in a random direction with no idea where he is, while he could actually have FOUND her. Still, it was a great little emotional scene, even if some things still ended up ruining it. And I mean, if he really had died, that would have just been heartbreaking.

    The ending was disappointing. But I did enjoy the series. Honestly I don’t know if more episodes would have helped it, because if this was where the ending was going to head anyway, with random re-aliving and ditching of lovers I’d still be upset. But. I guess this series should be about the ride, not the destination. For me at least.

  25. Denizen says:

    Truly I didn’t find the finale too terrible, and it had enough clever tricks to cover up some plot points or conclude some storylines, even if it couldn’t take care of all of them.

    Honestly I have seen other endings much more jarring and out of place than this one, not that it does excuse giant magical bee tornadoes.

  26. AKI says:

    OK. That was some stupid ending. Jesus Christ, I can’t believe that I was watching the same anime that I was watching a week ago. Seriously wtf happened?

    Bee tornadoes that can knock dawn huge building sized walls? Ugh. Still, the rest of the episodes were top notch – it’s the bad ending that leaves a bitter aftertaste.

  27. Robert2413 says:

    Yeah, the ending was rushed and ultimately unsatisfying. But it was by no means random. In fact, many of Ep 11’s elements were foreshadowed in Ep. 5. Beware of spoilers in the brain dump below.

    Many people found the haunting waltz scene in Ep. 5 to be random, incomprehensible or comic. However, its payload is symbols and metaphor and it was no wonder that Shion found “dancing” so tiring! I believe that its main purpose (in addition to being ravishingly romantic to those of us fond of the BL genre) was to foreshadow the important events at the end of Ep. 11, rendering these events much less random than most reviewers thought. During the waltz, there was a lonely railroad track going towards the horizon (Nezumi’s leaving at the very end and Shion’s feelings about it, which were made far clearer in the novel than in the anime), a ruined tower with two spires (Nezumi and Shion’s difficult relationship, particularly if one pages Dr. Freud and he replies that sometimes a cigar isn’t just a cigar), dancing at the edge of a precipice (pretty much self-explanatory), and the most enigmatic one – a ruined doll lying at the bottom of a puddle of water. If one accepts that the emotional turning point of the series was Nezumi’s tears (shown for an instant after Nezumi crawled close to Shion’s lifeless body, sang his requiem, and finally, broken and fatally wounded himself, prepared to die at Shion’s side), then the ruined doll represented the dead Shion and the water through which we saw the doll was Nezumi’s tears.

    Character flaws undo antiheroes in classic tragedies. Through most of the series, I expected that Nezumi’s hatred of No. 6 and his obsession with destroying it would lead to his annihilation. But it turned out that No. 6’s government was, in fact, more evil than we imagined it could be – a Pandora’s box that finally exploded in Ep. 9, spewing out the worst horrors of 20th-century totalitarianism. Nezumi’s hatred of No. 6’s government and his determination to destroy it was justified in any moral universe I can imagine. Meanwhile, we found out that in his life, Nezumi had somehow endured the unendurable and his final sacrifice, made only for the sake of singing Shion’s requiem, finally unfroze the rusted karmic wheel and justified Elyurias’ healing him and resurrecting Shion.

    Was this more randomness, as many have claimed? Turning again to Ep. 5, it’s clear that Elyurias was a *diety*, which is why she appeared in the stained glass in Ep. 5. Her presence there among other ancient images implied that she had been worshipped for a very long time. In Ep. 11’s resurrection scene, she appeared as a firebird or phoenix, eternally rising out of her own ashes. A billion or so people in the real world believe that a certain Son of God could raise the dead, so why not Elyurias in this fictional one? Deus ex machina is fine by me if there is an actual Deus involved.

    Finally, here’s something to ponder: I believe that Nezumi is probably most interesting gay male character in anime, ever. (And I only threw in “probably” because I couldn’t seen every anime that exists.) Nezumi is entirely unstereotypical (unlike, for example, the swishing “gay” Hero in Tiger & Bunny – just one of many such execrable examples in anime). Nezumi’s behavior is essentially masculine, yet, as it was always done in Shakespeare’s day, he sometimes plays female roles on stage. Because of his mixture of masculine and feminine attributes, it’s unclear if he would take a seme or uke role offstage. He might even switch, depending on his mood. Like most gay men, he became aware of an unformed attraction toward his own gender while still very young (as we saw in Ep. 1). And most important, he *hides* in a painstakingly constructed metaphorical closet. Indeed, the subtext of hiding to protect oneself from pain or destruction pervades the entire anime; almost all of the major characters do it. Nezumi hides his emotions behind a facade of sarcasm and invective. He lives underground in a hidden place containing precious cultural remnants of the old, destroyed world. He is constantly aware of the danger of revealing too much of himself and his shock at the end of Ep. 5, when Shion touches him, comes mostly from the realization that he unwittingly revealed far more of himself than he ever thought was safe. Terrifyingly, Shion didn’t just touched Nezumi’s neck but somehow worked his way under Nezumi’s skin.

    The destruction of the Forest People by gunfire and flames may have been a metaphor for the holocaust in Germany during World War II, in which gay people were among the many oppressed groups who were rounded up and exterminated. Given that one of the Nazis’ main techniques was burning victims alive (as the Forest People were), this works. Although it’s a stretch, the destruction of the Forest People could also be a metaphor for the holocaust that was AIDS for the 15 years after 1980. when it seemed that the dying would never end.

    Finally, No. 6 has been criticized for being too “theatrical” and “melodramatic.” However, there’s nothing wrong with theatricality and melodrama per-se. Wikipedia, in an article that’s well worth reading, defines melodrama as “a dramatic work that exaggerates plot and characters in order to appeal to the emotions.” Melodrama has an honorable tradition going back to at least the 18th century and opera would not exist without it. Thanks to its artifice and distillation of emotion for dramatic effect, melodrama has often appealed to gay men, who are always in some way “outsiders” existing beyond the periphery of the heterosexual bubble inside which most of the world operates – a bubble so all-pervasive that it is hard for those within it to see its borders or imagine that there might be anything else outside. Hence, No. 6’s theatricality makes total sense to me – I’m a sucker for artistically created melodrama!

    Is No. 6 a great sci-fi anime? Not compared to some of its competition – No. 6’s running time is too short to tell the story that it needed to tell and I’m the first to admit that Ep. 11 should have been twice as long. (Could we dream that the Blu-ray release might offer this, given the criticism that Bones got for the rushed finale?) However, thanks to the subtlety with which it handles the BL themes (blink and you’ll miss the defining scenes) No. 6 is one of my favorite anime with BL elements, second only to “Legend of the Galactic Heroes,” which I believe *is* the greatest sci-fi anime ever. (Compared to the Nezumi/Shion relationship in No. 6, in LOGH one can make a stronger argument that Reinhardt/Siegfried is limited to a very intense “bromance.” Or not. But be sure to watch the gaiden before deciding!)

    As always, your mileage may vary. But somehow, No. 6 has worked its roots deep into my brain. Standing out in a field overloaded with clichés and formulas: shonen tournaments, magical girls, moe, harems, reverse harems, ecchi, teenage detectives, and nothing-ever-happens-here-slice-of-life, the depth of No. 6’s subtext and its willingness to take artistic risks has made No. 6 one of my favorite animes of 2011.

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Anonymous2028201
To me this seems like a pretty good seasons, but judging some of the impressions, it's a bit more of a mixed bag for most. Just curious, what were the best seasons for recent anime? This one seems good to me, but to early to tell right now
Anonymous2028201
Lovin this season so far: a lot of reboots/reimaginings and sequels, but I'm enjoying them all. MHA S3, LOGH DNT, S;G 0, Megalobox, Golden Kamuy are what I'm watching right now. I hear Full Metal Panic is good as well, but I haven't gotten around to watching the original series.
Anonymous2028258
so i just recently rewatched fullmetal panic fumoffu and i gotta say that this is easily one of Kyo ani's best works. It's such a surprise that this was their first anime; it's a damn good romance comedy
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Lol I love B-movie type stuff, because the rules are off.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was the only person who watched Mazinkaiser skl and shin mazinger and skullman.
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser Takeshi Koike really wanted to really sell it as a grindhouse feature and I ate that shit up; I really dug the tone he was going for.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: It was strange seeing that Goemon short, much as I enjoyed it, thats the goriest I seen lupin get.
Anonymous2026379
Megalo box is pure retro while lupin is a mix of old and new...and you're right; people just think they can't jump right into it. But that's why more people should be talking about it; to let the masses know that you don't need a starting point to get into the Lupin franchise
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a massive fan of the devilman manga and I thought devilman crybaby was better than it.
Anonymous2026379
90's-esque throwback feeling shows like lupin and megalo box have been giving me
Anonymous2026379
Luoin part 5 is definitely mixing the best of new and old. Honestly, I've been having a blast with it as well as this generally 90
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think the problem is, people see lupin as this long thing they can't get into, when really its so episodic/standalone mostly you can pick up and watch.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And of course getting the best bits out of old and new.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*visual style
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a fan of this hybrid old and new style, megalobox does it too, mine fujiko aswell and casshern sins.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was surprised by how well the Fujiko mine show came together in the end.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'll be interested in picking up more facts about thrm.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Come think of it, Akira Kurosawa did some old western (eastern?) in Russian, that had an Ainu in it.
Anonymous2026379
Asirpa is sooooo adorable.....almost feels patronizing to say that about her due to how badass she is
Anonymous2026379
What makes Fujiko work so well as this sexy icon is that she isn't just sexy: she's smart as shit and uses that sexiness to dominate and control her opponents (similar to bayonetta) rather than be chained by the objectification of her opponents (and the viewers for that matter)
Anonymous2026379
I wonder what other obscure cameos we may get this season. And yea you're right about some of Lupin's potentially sexist traits being assuaged by his level of cool and the genuine respect he shows a good deal of the women he has encountered throughout the series
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yet still a fun film at the same time.
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser Yea, mamo was a pretty dark element introduced to the lupin franchise; and considering the tone of the gravestone of Jigen, it makes sense he would cameo there
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Help I want to kidnap Asirpa =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I'm probably as surprised as you, at finding someone to talk to about Lupin on here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: And through comparing/contrasting the jigen grave stone and Fujiko mine, with some of the sillier older ones, it shows the Lupin characters are flexible enough to work both in a darker AND sillier context.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*character
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Fujiko is precisely how a fanservicey character should work and how built in/essential it is to her haracter, without becoming an irritant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: By all means Lupin himself shouldn't be a character we like, much like Bond, but like Bond theres a coolness to the character that allows us to love him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Another great thing about Lupin is how it uses its 60s cool to get away with what would normally probably be considered fairly sexist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I had a big smile on my face when Mamo made a cameo appearance at the end of one of the recent ones and thats because I remember the Lupin Mamo movie was one of those first anime that I watched about 20 years aago.
Anonymous2026379
not to mention that its one of the few anime this season that actually knows how to utilize dialogue to explore flesh out its characters rather than exposition or contrivance: looking at you darling in the franxx
Anonymous2026379
@Kaiser-Eoghan Nice fun facts; but yea Lupin III is a series that has always had an amazing sense of pacing and adventure, traits that are definitely on display this season
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Its a huge franchise too so I'm often never sure where to go next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: You may or may not know this, but the voice actor for solid snake voiced Lupin in one of the dubs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I watched a few episodes of the Italy set lupin show too .
Its a fun franchise due to its cast but its something I have to follow irregularly, lest it get repetitive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Fun fact, guy who directed the gold of babylon film was a famous B-movie noir director in the 60s.
Lenlo
Dont trust anything written by the original SAO author. Everything is his fault. Kirito is not in this series.
Lenlo
Even the original SAO author has little to do with it, which is why its actually good
Lenlo
So SAO Alt is basically completely removed from the rest of SAO
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Lupin is one of those things I dip in and out of, whatever part of the franchise it is. I've seen birdcage kingdom, Mamo, cagliostro, nostradamus, Jigens grave stone, mine fujiko and the recent Goemon centred special.
Anonymous2026379
it's a damn shame not a lot of ppl are talkig about/watching lupin the third this season
Kaiser-Eoghan
But for all I know with that team behind it, its an improvement, but theres probably not much point in me watching as I dropped the first season after less than 10 episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
See how he attempts to seduce me into watching something related to sword art.
Lenlo
Huh... I didnt know the writer for SAO Alt was written by the Kino's Journey creator and produced by the Flip Flappers people. Explains a lot
Lenlo
I wish I knew what you meant by shaman girls, and I cant wait
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Oh I know Leskinen. May he find his Japanese Shaman girls one day. But seeing as I know the story I wanna experience it differently.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its even set in hokkaido, Korean/Japanese director, Japanese cast, Ken Watanabe is in it: https://letterboxd.com/film/unforgiven-2013/
Lenlo
Also, I love the ED. Really, 2 episodes in, I love S;G all over again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: really? They remade Unforgiven in Japanese?
Lenlo
its*
Lenlo
Like... is good.
Lenlo
But your missing out on the cult of Leskinen. The engrish is actually one of my favorite parts
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Meanwhile I am happily waiting for the dub.
Lenlo
Dangit... I have to wait another week for Steins;Gate 0 now. I cant do this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Japanese remake of unforgiven had ainu people in it.
Anonymous2025797
Also I wonder if budget is distributed according to the director, some animes will spend more in the first episode. Some will spend more in the last ones. It's subjective, but if it's like all business it is looking for the better result at the minimum expense. Hence why I believe Berserk was made the way it did.
Anonymous2025797
@Kaiser-Eoghan - Ideally a story should be as long as it needs. But reality seems that a number of episodes is decided before production. And so you either have to stretch or cut material. Kinda like that 300 page manga of Les Miserables, is simply unfeasible translating that book into that few pages.
KTravlos
Oberstein was a great character.
KTravlos
I actually feel Aidan can do a good job on it. Sometimes been too exposed to the material may lead to clouded eyes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though I'm surprised by how I unexpectedly laughed at wotaku, I do wonder if later on it will include any slight drama elements to sustain interest.
Kaiser-Eoghan
OMO; OBERsteins; Gate =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
From watching episode 2 of golden kamuy, yeah, the source material definitely is lifting this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm going to have to wait and see on steins; gate 0, it is encouraging to here this might be darker , at the same time I remember having to sit through too much goofy humour in the first one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was actually surprised, that, while rare, there were some moments of humour, that lightened it for me.
AidanAK47
Throughout the entire series I expected Oberstein to pull some inevitable double cross. And was shocked when he never did.
Amagi
@Kaiser: Agree with Oberstein. I think antagonists are es important as the mains in fiction and I loved this guy, he's perfect for series like these.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Galactic heroes was an example of where when watching it, when big death scenes occured, I would make noooooo and shouting noises at the screen while clenching my fist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I love characters like Oberstein, shrewd, clever, but done right to where I can believe it, not characters like, say Lelouch .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd be concerned if the new galactic heroes series skimps on the violence, that kind of thing needs to be in there, in most shows/films and shown to be explicit, consequences need to be shown.
Amagi
*about, not with
Amagi
Sadly, most original 2+ cours series I know feel dragged whereas many 1 cours originals could have needed ~3 more episodes. Talking with series that have an actual plot of course.
Amagi
I really like the 13 episodes thingy for originals but I wish there would be more 26 episodes series, especially for adaptions.
Amagi
@Kaiser: I agree. Nothing kills my interest faster than formularic episodes and repetition.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In general I think 50 episodes would be the most I'd watch for an anime, 39 seems ideal.
Amagi
Or worse and the romance drama is the main plot and it's Kiznaiver all over again, while the rest is just flavor to make the romances more forced since they're the MCs are only teens and such. Dunno but I can never bring myself to care about this kind of stuff.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though better 110 episodes of galactic heroes than a long shounen that just repeats itself.
Amagi
Speaking of recent episodes, I unironically thing that FranXX's world (building) is pretty interesting (although I hope those klaxxosaurusses will be more than just random cannon fodder) but I doubt the series will ever get to the main plot again the next time.
Amagi
Same here. It was really the only time I did this. I am usually exhausted by just thinking about marathoning long series. It's the reason why I won't get into FMP for the new series either. LotGH was an exception since I found it easily to watch for some reason.
SuperMario
Man, just image burning through 110 episodes of it and my spirit fades away
Amagi
Watched that whole series ages ago.
Amagi
Just watched the first three Neue These episodes and I surprinsingly liked it. Thought I would hate it due to being an OVA fan, and I still prefer the old designs by far but overall it's pretty good. I think I might even prefer this version of the first battle, but I have to rewatch the old one I guess.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also while I can't remember which episode, Yang picks up a book with the author of the series' name on it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Arslan feels so lightweight by contrast/comparison.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I think, given your knowledge KTtravlos, that a series review of the new galactic heroes season would probably benefit from you writing it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring up the music in my earlier comment, because I can understand your reservations regarding the music choice in the remake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And certainly one of those shows, that going back to the first episode after finishing, gives a strong perspective just on how evolving the series was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*despite me not
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite not being monarchist , because the characters were human moreso than cartoon characters I couldn't hate on Reinhard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: I suppose by the time it got to Julian's arc, I was surprised they were still bothering to fight but the fact that they were essentially the last bastion of their beliefs made it special.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Sometimes when I just finish a show, its a case where I HAVE to jump online immediately after and excitedly ramble out an essay on it.
niello
ugh democracy
KTravlos
@Kaiser ultimately LOGH for me was a decisive point in my political life, as I think it made the best defense of democracy in any form I have seen. And it worked partly because the opponent was presented in the best possible incarnation (Rienhard). Yang's continued adherence to democracy, despite recongising its flaws, helped me avoid a personal descent into authoritarian politics.
KTravlos
@Kaiser. I am happy you had a good experience. I watched the prequels a while after the main show and I was happy because it was great getting back to those characters. The prequels were also great in fleshing the setting and the characters. So yes, take your time and a break. That way the prequels will be like visiting a place you liked again after a while.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@KTtravlos: I have some other stuff to get through before watching the galactic heroes prequel though =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
YES according to discord poster I'm not a millenial!
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for overposting. I have always always being an incredibly verbose person.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter; Not that I oppose captilistically made for a buck cinema, it can be entertaining yes, but I set a standard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: As open as I am to trash cinema, I consider the resident evil films, like the superhero ones, anti-art.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can understand why people don't like Villier, but he did I think work as a device to add extra tension.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel some release at finishing but at the same time sadness at saying goodbye to the show and its characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
, showing its age.
But for something of this length, it kept itself up far better than most long shows and I feel the length its somewhat justified.

On another note….as corny as the third ending theme is, I got the feels listening to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But while the first 50 odd episodes were an easy job for me aswell as all of the 4th season and some of the late 3rd season made it difficult for me to pull myself away from it, the dialogue even though often well observed did become difficult to follow at times and somewhere in the middle theres a stretch of episodes, bar some moments that feel a bit of an endurance test and the animation is at
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its attention to detail I felt was at its strongest in the documentary and the series dedication to filling the view in on its world building/fictional history.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I admired the scope, ambition of this series and the battles eventually grew on me and I was surprised by just how visceral the melee combat got which suited me perfectly. At the same time for all the strategy and action, I found myself more in it for the story, characters and intrigue/politicking. Those battles, due in part to their music choices, had an epic feel to them
Kaiser-Eoghan
In the end the characters stood out for me the best were Reinhard, Oberstein (for being essentially the amazing man with the plan), Reuntal, Kircheis and Rubinsky, I warmed up to Julian, Yang and Schenkop. When important deaths occurred, they felt highly dramatic, in four cases emotionally effecting for me .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also, KTtravlos, thank you for pushing me toward watching the original legend of the galactic heroes, my opinion on the series is largely a mixed one, but by the end I felt I’d watched something rewarding and I’m happy its crossed off my list and I should have gotten round to it sooner.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm probably the oldest here, being 32. Which apparently makes me around Yang-wenli's age, which according to someone means I'm middle aged .
Kaiser-Eoghan
To the discord guy who brought it up, its difficult not for me to be political, my father was an activist and is a Marxist , I ended up becoming a contradiction a semi-agnostic, but spiritually inclined/tolerant socialist with internationalist ideology.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Ends in very cliffhanger/abrupt indy way though and the things weakness/how to kill thems too easy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I liked how it explains nothing also and the creature design and how it visual communicates to the audience.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: While I won't say anything, a character death is handled in what I considered a schmaltzy manner. There is a particularly headscratching decision the characters make that you'll either rationalize or hate, but it leads to one of the tenser set pieces later on.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Quiet place has a good idea at its backbone, that they use sign language in the film to communicate and occassional whispers adds to it, it and the silence allows for a mood to be effectively communicated. It does have jump scares, I wasn't annoyed by them, but I never felt the film required them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read the discord, if you ever need to ask a question relating to film, come to me about it, I will without fail be able to answer 9 times out of 10.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was adequately amused by the first episode of wotaku, but found the male lead funnier, which I'm attributing to him be more deadpan.
Lenlo
We found a convient weekend for everyone
Kaiser-Eoghan
*watching
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would also float the idea of recommendation podcasts every now and then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will listen to the podcast more in full later. But I was surprised after asking/suggesting it on the discord, that it came so soon.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am thinking of re-watching gasaraki and ai yori aoshi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: Perhaps after a while of watch the anime I will simply jump on to the manga.
Vonter
I watched Resident Evil: Vendetta yesterday. It's incredible dumb but kind of fun. I do wonder if in terms of entertainment are like the best videogame based movies. Since it plays like a videogame, it's based on a videogame and is more or less in line with the tone the series has had for a while.
niello
It's such a shame that Golden Kamuy art direction is such a train wreck.
KTravlos
and for the sake of Clausewitz there is clinical term for what Reinhard did. It is called "defeat in detail". Napoleon was a master of it. Proper way to defeat it , is to order the threatened force to retreat to a point where other allied forces are converging. The enemy will either have to retreat, or fight at a disadvantage. The 1813 and 1814 campaigns against Napoleon are examples of that.
KTravlos
Episode 2 of LOGGH: Der Neue Thesis was much better than the first. The music is still an issue, but Yang was well portrayed. I do think there is lack of the directors in showing the cruelty of war, like the first one did. We will see.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Still need to see his short films and black Peter.
Amagi
@Anon: I already know the manga and enjoy it, think the anime is a good adaption so far. Feels good to see a series about video games that are actually just games and romance without tsunderes, tons of blushing or unworldly naive harem girls.
Anonymous2016456
the anime
Anonymous2016456
how do you guys think of wotakoi?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Hereditary sounds pretty promising here
Kaiser-Eoghan
Forman's an interesting case, when you look at the huge disconnect from his early films from the 60s and then what he went on to make.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, unfortunately I am not a fan of country music so Nashville didn't appeal to me =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And before Jack kept playing the same role over and over.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Aside from Courtney Love's presence, Larry Flynt is an excellent film. I love the custom camera tricks Kubrick used in Lyndon , dog day afternoon suceeded for me because it did so much more than being just a bank rob film. I wish Spielberg would return to his pre-90s films .
SuperMario
Cuckoo's Nest reminds me of the great 1975 Oscar Best Picture, which for me was Oscar's greatest line-up. The line-ups for that year were: Cuckoo Nest (winner), Nashville, Barry Landon, Dog Day Afternoon and Jaws
SuperMario
@Kaiser: RIP the man. I've seen 2 of his, Amadeus and Cuckoo Nest. Both great but they were more because of the strength of the source
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Milos forman has died =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
Indeed the character designs in steins; gate have seen changes....shockingly mayuri's chest is larger than Daru's ;)
KTravlos
I can live with that. Interested to see what made you reserved.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: you won't agree with my series review then. I have a lot of reservations on VE
KTravlos
Also I finished Violet Evergarden. This was an exceptional series in my book.
KTravlos
the two characters. Finally the battle soundtrack was simply wrong.

I am going to watch it because it is LOGH. And frankly after watching the new one I felt the fact that the old one was dated technical wise (but not in music). But at least on comparison of first episodes, the old one did a better job at giving depth to Reinhard and Keircheis.
KTravlos
well I watched the first episode of the new LOGH and then watched the first episode of the older version. The update in the art is good..but. If the old one was too talky, this one is too boom boom. I also felt that they did not sue the time well to establish Reihard and Kircheis well. Especially the removal of some lines that were in the first episode of the original, really took away a lot from
SuperMario
@Amagi: I can see your point but what a premise for Golden Kamuy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although golden kamuy is labeled seinen, which gives me some more hope for it.
SuperMario
@Amagi: agree with you about remembering stuffs you've watched. For me, it's always until the second watch that I can remember the plot or characters clearly. Otherwise, all will get hazy like a dream
Anonymous2011116
@Anon Watch a few eps and then male an informed decision based on that; I find the storytelling to be a bit weak but you might not feel the same
AidanAK47
@Anon, If you can ignore the rather odd fanservice and sex symbolism it's actually a pretty enjoyable show with good animation whose story has been getting better.
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