Posted by psgels on 11 November 2011 with categories: Mawaru Penguin Drum

Yeah, this episode was another one of those “batman having tea with superman”-episodes. This episode was just amazing, as it combined the talents of two wildly different directors, Kunihiko Ikura and Shigeyasu Yamauchi, into one. The result was an episode with a ton of weird twists, strong character development and a ton of symbolism, combined with a style that is masterful at getting genuine emotions out of the characters and terrific at subtle pacing.

I can’t believe how well the two blended with each other. Tabuki really got a wonderful episode through this. Ikuhara even gave Shigeyasu Yamauchi the freedom of handling the background art much different from usual, and that too resulted in a ton of eye candy. Tabuki ended up as a great villain through this. On top of that Momoka also got a lot of depth, and the main cast also got much closer to each other. Especially the aftermath of this episode felt very intimate.

Also, the eye-catch. It just revealed another turning-point, as expected. Right now we’re in the background arc, in which all of the side-characters get the chance to show their stories and backgrounds. At the moment the only ones left are Tabuki and the parents who set everything in motion. I can only imagine what the creators have planned for after that. It’s that final arc where they really have to show that they know how to use their build-up.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

32 Responses

  1. Alec says:

    This episode really got my attention. It was intense.

    There is only 1 thing that bothered me was the semi-predictable scene in the end, which the mass probably wanted (not gonna spoil)

    Also, I would’ve preferred if we actually saw the events in Tabuki’s past rather than seeings scenes about symbolism. Not that I hate it or anything

  2. ojamajo_limepie says:

    Speaking of eye candy, Umakoshi Yoshihiko, character designer of Heartcatch Precure and Casshern Sins, animated key parts of this episode.

  3. DmonHiro says:

    I’m just curious how Tabuki saved Himari at the end. What the hell did he do? Can he fly?

  4. jzar says:

    **some spoilers**

    I really like the show but I have to say this episode was the least enjoyable for me so far. The parts of it that needed to be very believable just didn’t work.

    How could Tabuki could do what he did without a whole team of experts to back him up. It was so annoying that it ended up really getting in the way of the story.

    Didn’t he just run into the girl by accident?
    …Locking the girl in an elevator?
    …How did he have all those remotes and high grade plastic explosives ready for a spur of the moment decision?
    …Grabbing a moving steel cable with your bare hand? that would not just damage your hand it would be like sticking your hand into a high speed cheese grater.

    If Tabuki had photo’s of the black hats why didn’t he follow them back to the man who really did kill his lover?
    …. I could go on and on, it really was that bad.

    I would have much rather seen the mentally unstable Tabuki hold a knife to the throat. Just something spur of the moment and simple.

    The other background stories were really good and worked so well. I suppose it made the flaws in this one stand out to me.

    Just my take and it is a realitivly small thing because the acting and the animation was really good. They have some high standards to maintain and this episode was a bit of a letdown.

  5. hurin says:


    Kanba also shouldn’t have been able to walk away from getting dragged after a truck, and Shouma should have died from the car crash.

    But of course it is also not logical for dead people to be revived by penguin hats.

    I hope the mystery as to the brothers invulnerability will be explained later. Maybe penguin 1, 2 and 3 are absorbing their damage somehow.

  6. Son Gohan says:

    @jzar: This show is highly symbolical. You shouldn’t think about how Tabuki saved Himari. What’s important is that he changed his mind after seeing the sibling’s love for each other.

  7. jzar says:

    Son Gohan-
    This show is highly symbolical. You shouldn’t think about how Tabuki saved Himari. What’s important is that he changed his mind after seeing the sibling’s love for each other.

    I totally agree… saved the episode for me…that was a great moment.

  8. Snowolf says:

    I really enjoyed Tabuki’s backstory- while I felt that it was the most abstract out of all the ones we’ve seen in some time, I did enjoy all the symbolism (the child broiler was really intense!) and you could definitely see how he really bonded to Momoka. It’s interesting how both Tabuki and Yuri view Momoka as some kind of God who came out of the heavens to change their life imminently, instead of just a faithful friend. Their lives revolve around her. Of course, I only have this fear that Momoka, like almost all of the characters in this show, is not what she seems, and that a much more sinister motive lurks behind that innocent smile. Her way of saying “Live for me!” and “I love you” seem almost stand out amongst a sea of almost too-dramatic sayings somehow. I mean, how did these two even really meet? Tabuki, unlike Yuri did not even know Momoka existed before this; of course, this is all figuratively speaking, so Tabuki may have had some knowledge of Momoka’s existence and the POV that we saw was at the specific time when Tabuki was at his lowest point. Tabuki’s parents also reminded me a lot of the parents in this show, and the theme of high expectations passing down from one to another. The Takakura’s unconsciously passed down their sin to their children; the Oginome parents passed down the strain of their relationship onto Ringo, who tried turning into Momoka to save that relationship, Yuri’s father physically abused her (and raped? I’m still not sure and I kind of don’t want to know) and now we see Tabuki’s mother as one who forced her own ideals of perfection (just like Yuri’s father had his ideals of perfection- Yuri and Tabuki almost mirror each other in terms of their parents and how they were treated) onto him and his little brother. Which resulted in him purposely crushing his hand so he could have an excuse not to play piano.

    While it’s kind of sad, I still in no way have any sympathy for Tabuki’s actions, which seemed to be more out of self-loathing and self-pity than actual revenge. Tabuki laments the fact that he wasn’t able to do anything about Momoka’s death, and immaturely puts that blame (in quite a gruesome and heart stopping fashion) onto Kanba and Himari. In the end, he finally grows weary (or gains sympathy, realizes his actions?) and saves Himari, but nevertheless, we were really able to see how desperate he had become. Which leads me to wonder- while both Tabuki and Yuri met Momoka for the better, they have only turned out to be vicious monsters of their own grim fate. As Ringo rightfully (ugh, I love this girl!) says at the end- she won’t grow up hating the family when it was her own sister who died at the hands of the Takakura parents, not just because she loves Shouma, but also because she realizes that grief, loss, and happiness all play a part in one’s life, and it’s up to us whether to accept that or not. But Tabuki and Yuri have grown haunted, almost into corpses reeking of self hatred, shared by their bond with Momoka. Of course, it seems that Yuri is a little more mature than Tabuki, slapping him in the face (damn straight!) after seeing what he did and his patheticness at doing it.

    I’m still annoyed that this show isn’t making full use of Shouma’s character- he’s my favorite, despite his inherent uselessness and lack of tack and coming on time, but that’s not his fault- I blame the show. Shouma is the only character in this show who isn’t fucked up somehow/has shady intentions and thus I really want him to play a major part in the end, if he can. I have a feeling he’s connected to the Penguindrum, considering that the show’s focus on Kanba and his countless sacrifices (as Himari said rightly- enough already!) might just be a little red herring so that we don’t think about Shouma. If that’s true, that would be excellent; I’m just dying for Shouma to actually accomplish something, though I feel like his relationship with Ringo is really going to amount to something important in the end, rather than him actually doing something.

    Going back to the Himari/Kanba scenes- damn, that was intense. I was literally clutching the end of my seat. Damn you Ikuhara! But oh boy, the use of music during that scene was fantastic. A major problem I have with this show is its lack of good BGM- which is actually a bigger factor in creating/evoking emotions than people think (think horror, folks, and all those violins) but this episode did a nice job of using the BGM well.

    Also, Shigeyasu Yamauchi directing this episode was a dream come true. I could totally spot his signature styles of shooting things in different ways and adding a lot of gorgeous visual feasts to the action scenes as well as the flashback scenes. HEARTS IN MY EYES, I’m telling you.

    I’m still a little concerned about how this show is going to wrap up in only eight more episodes, but that’s still enough time. It feels like this is more of a 50-episode show, but now that we have formally introduced everyone (except for Sanetoshi, whose random 2 minute scene was just…weird- what’s up with that rabbit fetish, I would like to know) hopefully we’ll start moving toward a good climax. It’s been a fun train ride, and now it’s finally time to wrap up all of these loose strings and tie them into a grand finale!

  9. nodbgp says:

    I think we will still get a lot of background on the family, I still don’t believe any of the three are bound by blood, we still have to get what the parents and consequently the organization reasons and goals are. The episode in itself was awesome in what it turned Tabuki into. Looking forward to the answers and to the ending, hoping they are able to wrap it up the best way possible, which I have no idea how should be.

  10. AidanAK47 says:

    And the Tabuki flashback as predicted. Thankfully shorter than I expected. Alright, I did enjoy some of it but that this point I sighed at yet another back story which included a parent forcing unreasonable conditions on a child. There are issues one can gain that don’t involve terrible parenting! On top of that we have the highly nonsense plan of Tabuki which I really don’t see the point of. Tabuki previously stated that he didn’t want revenge and now he suddenly does and portrays himself as a dark individual despite being shown as a pretty ordinary and reasonable guy beforehand. So yep, this whole thing stank of an act. I didn’t believe he was going to kill any of these kids for a second. That sort of killed the tension.
    And for the love of god. Himari, pulling the fake death card again? I can’t give a crap any more. I know you are not going to die. Nobody ever dies. Drama = completely pointless.
    “On top of that Momoka also got a lot of depth”
    Yes, she changed from a character who saved a disturbed child to…she changed from a character who saved two disturbed children. Wow. That’s deep.

    “This show is highly symbolical. You shouldn’t think about how Tabuki saved Himari. What’s important is that he changed his mind after seeing the sibling’s love for each other.”

    Just because a show is symbolic does not mean it has the right not to make sense. Besides that a pretty poor overused plot twist.

    Ahh…why oh why can’t I just shut of my brain and ignore this nonsense crap. I can do it fine for Mirai Nikki but maybe that’s because I know what I am getting.

  11. wendeego says:

    Interesting thing about Shouma…from the end of the corresponding chapter in the novel:

    “I have to be stronger too. No matter how unfair it might seem, if this is our fate, then I have to accept it and become stronger. I dried my tears on my sleeve and stopped lying to myself. I’m never going to run away again, not from fate and not from Oginome.”

    So I’m guessing that by the next episode he will be playing an active role in the plot. We will see!

    As for parenting issues and the sense of disbelief…well, Ikuhara loves illusions. The crux of Utena was a fairy tale that turned out to be a cage, and I’d guess that Penguindrum is structurally similar–an inescapable train en route to Death, for example. The conflict of the show comes from breaking out of the restrictions of society and finding a path towards happiness and understanding. That can only come about through sacrifice and enormous love, and I’m guessing that’s closely associated with the Penguindrum.

    AidanAK47, I’d agree with you that it’s a little strange that everybody’s issues appear to come from terrible parenting, if it wasn’t for the fact that carrying the sins of the fathers/mothers is so obviously key to the themes of the show. Just about every main character in the show except for Momoka and Sanetoshi are hanging above the child broiler by their fingernails: Himari on the brink of death, Kanba and Shouma abandoned by their parents, Yuri and Tabuki the product of an abusive mother and father respectively, and even Ringo in a situation where nothing she can do will ever bring her family back together.

    If you think about it, this entire show has been haunted by those recycled children in the child broiler. Remember the OP, with shards of glass flying by as Himari falls? After this episode we know that those are the remains of children who have been abandoned by the world. Think about it that way, and the great majority of the cast of Penguindrum are perversions of fate, somehow maintaining their existence in the world when they shouldn’t even be alive in the first place. Yuri and Tabuki were saved by Momoka, but Ringo and the Takakuras have been getting by through willpower alone (if only barely.) Is it any wonder that they are to be punished?

    So yeah–I think the emphasis on parent issues is more of a thematic choice than evidence of a lack of imagination. As for the strangeness of the plot, think of it more like a Haruki Murakami novel–where momentous things are happening under the surface but are never fully explained–and it becomes a bit more understandable. If you just aren’t digging it than I guess there’s not much anyone can do, though. I think it’s obvious by this point that Penguindrum is definitely not for everybody!

  12. Minnako says:

    @ Snowolf: Exactly!

    Momoka isn’t (at least I think not) a deity – she couldn’t possibly save everyone, even within the realms of plausibility of her powers it would just be too much for her to bear. Yet, instead of taking what she did for them and living on, the people she saved were never really saved – they never got over the darkness in their past, and the minute she’s not there to provide validation for them they turn into warped people intent on revenge. As if saintly Momoka would want that. Which makes me feel that in some way Momoka didn’t really ‘save’ them at all – instead of being turned into powdered glass or whatever, they just became something worse because they never learned how to live for themselves. I don’t know what that’s trying to say about what it means to try to ‘save’ those you love – should you do it? Maybe that they need more support? No, I can’t really condone his actions, either – losing one person, even if it is the first person who gave you validation, doesn’t mean that 16 years later you get to enact revenge.

    I’m not sure that Yuri slapped him because he did something pathetic (she did try to rape Momoka’s kid sister, after all), maybe for having the audacity to lie to her, to take her prey? Maybe for having the guts to realise what a broken individual he currently is, and for not taking it to the conclusion he planned?

    Interestingly, even though Himari could be Momoka’s reincarnation, I think in some ways it’s Ringo now playing her role – trying to validate people who feel they just aren’t good enough through no fault of their own. She’s not saintlike, but at least she doesn’t pronounce undying love for everyone in some selfless obsession for saving them all. I’d be very interested to see what the psychological effects of her power are, though. People in the position to save others (rescue workers, healthcare professionals, etc) can suffer from really bad burnout from getting too involved and literally feeling like they need to save everyone because they can. I’d like to see what the deal is behind her facade, because right now she’s just too perfect.

    It’s not Shouma’s fault he’s late and never the one to save Himari – it’s not like Kanba gives anyone that chance. Kanba’s always been the morally ambiguous one willing to do things normal teenagers just wouldn’t think of, and keeping it all secret from Shouma. So I feel it’s unfair when people think this implies Shouma cares less about saving his sister. He just doesn’t know what to do, and we know he has normal scruples, that he’s had to put aside plenty of times. I’d argue that he’s had it harder than Kanba, because Kan feels that he NEEDS to go to ridiculous lengths, he’s almost masochistic, and he’d be worse off if he didn’t – bearing the brunt of the cost is less of a punishment for Kanba than doing nothing.

    Sanetoshi evidently took the pictures of Kanba at his leisure and then told Tabuki at this particular time – why? Does that mean Himari wasn’t fibbing when she said she had her doctor’s approval? After all, we only saw the rabbit boys talking to her brothers. What is this dude scheming, I wonder?

  13. Kim says:


    I expect Shouma to start playing a more active part in the final 6 episodes…which will also cover the final novel of the story.

    I think the novel does a better job than the anime of defining what Shouma’s role will be. He’s been inactive on purpose because of his own self doubt & feeling of worthlessness. That is definitely going to change.


    Completely agreed! And I can’t believe people are actually complaining that everyone had messed up parents…it’s called tying things together by singular theme? Didn’t Sanetoshi say it in a previous episode: children are supposed to love their parents no matter what? The entire theme of the series has been putting the sins of the parents onto the children.

    And I always wanted to say that people who complain about Penguindrum better never read a Murakami novel so I am glad you brought him up. Not that I think Ikuhara is on the same level as Murakami (who is one of my favorite authors) but the way they tell a story is definitely similar. Of course Ikuhara references Murakami in Penguindrum so it’s obvious he’s a fan & I highly approve.

  14. Snowolf says:

    @Minnako, Kim: You’ve captured my thoughts exactly! I mean, the way everyone portrays Momoka, it sounds as if she’s some kind of magical, divine goddess, combined with her ability to change fate (I am still not sure about this ability, but I have a feeling it will be brought to light soon enough). And yet, everyone who has met Momoka has never actually gotten over their dark past. Yuri ironically becomes an actress to prove her self-worth, and to show that she is beautiful. Tabuki becomes a teacher in the hopes that he will actually be able to contribute something toward other people’s lives. And yet they are fundamentally, two broken individuals who are only married due to their shared connection with Momoka and their shared belief that her Diary will somehow bring her back. In that way, Momoka really hasn’t saved anyone, and I have this terrible feeling that this is the way she wanted it to happen- that she’s the mastermind behind some of this, somehow. Instead of becoming independent, they have grown shallow and lost, more desperate than ever.

    Which really brings me to the main interest behind Penguindrum- the fact that so far, the adults are the ones with childish, immature dreams, while the children are the ones acting mature and trying to realize the reality of their situation. Neither Kanba, Shouma, Ringo or Himari at this point are hopelessly lost or idealistic; even Natsume is working hard to achieve her dreams rather than be dragged back into her past, hopelessly wandering. Tabuki and Yuri however, are ghosts of their own haunted pasts, and are lingering in some kind of limbo where they can’t progress forward because they’re afraid of change, and they are afraid of progress in the first place. Their lives were validated by Momoka, and without her they are empty souls. It’s similar to Utena’s genderswap, but it’s more of an…ageswap in Penguindrum.

    I’m really loving Ringo- she’s my favorite character (and has always been) because out of all the characters in thsi show, she’s the one who has recieved the most development. While I don’t think she’s becoming a saintlike figure, I do agree that she’s definitely gathered up the courage to move on and fight destiny, despite saying that she accepts and loves fate. I don’t think she’s become too perfect- I mean, heck she was a creepy stalker only 10 episodes ago, but I think by meeting Shouma she’s become self-aware and has understood the consequences of her actions. However, the two openings of the show display Ringo being wrapped up in flames- does this mean that she will become the next Momoka and end up saving the Takakura family (how ironic would that be?) and end up sacrificing herself? This kind of ties back to my idea that rather than being an active participator, Shouma’s relationship with Ringo will bear fruit to something more powerful than Kanba’s countless sacrifices. I definitely agree with you on Shouma- just because he’s not there on time doesn’t mean he doesn’t love Himari any less (well he might, considering that Kanba is actually in love with Himari) Shouma has definitely gone through a huge personal identity crisis in this show for the most part, but with the novel/this episode, this suggests that his time of strife has finally come to an end, so hopefully we’ll see something good happen! Kanba irritates me slightly with his lack of self-worth; in a way I feel Himari is HIS Momoka, as she is the person who gives HIM validation to live (as he said when he was saving her life- his life means nothing without her). Which brings me back to thinking- will he end up like Tabuki, if Himari is to truly die?

    I…honestly don’t know what to think of Sanetoshi. Part of me is terrified that he’ll become the next Akio, and then another part of me thinks that this guy is just some sort of hidden plot device. But the fact that a.) he TOLD Himari (or rather, he approved) to go out knowing quite well that she needed the medicine before midnight and b.) took pictures of Kanba and then gave them to Tabuki is definitely devious to me. I don’t know what he’s up to and that scares me.

    Also, some food for thought; The whole “invisible entity” idea? Think back to Sakakibara Seito, the then-juvenile perpetrator of two vicious child murders in Tokyo back in 1997.

    On June 6, a letter was sent to the newspaper Kobe Shinbun, in which Sakakibara claimed responsibility for the slaying and decapitation of Jun Hase, and threatened that more killings would follow. This second letter, delivered in a brown envelope postmarked June 3, had no return address or name. Enclosed was a three-page, 1400-word letter, also written in red ink, which included a six-character name that can be pronounced as “Sakakibara Seito.” The same characters, which mean alcohol, devil, rose, saint and fight, were used in the first message that was inserted into the boy’s mouth.

    Beginning with the phrase “Now, it’s the beginning of a game,” the letter stated that “I am putting my life at stake for the sake of this game… If I’m caught, I’ll probably be hanged… police should be angrier and more tenacious in pursuing me…. It’s only when I kill that I am liberated from the constant hatred that I suffer and that I am able to attain peace. It is only when I give pain to people that I can ease my own pain.” The letter also lashed out against the Japanese educational system, calling it “compulsory education that formed me, an invisible person.”
    Wikipedia translated the phrase “透明な存在” (toumei na sonzai) as “invisible person”, but the translation “invisible entity” is also suffice.

    This might be a long shot, but it was one of the first things that came to my mind after I watched the show. But considering that Ikuhara has stuffed this show with a lot of allusions back to the many dark secrets of Japan, I wouldn’t be surprised.

  15. kero says:

    Interesting to read the comment on the possible link to the child killings. Hard to say if it is intentional or not, as I think the idea of feeling invisible as a child isn’t unique.

    My reaction to this episode was that I like it more last weeks episode, and now at least I know about Tabuki’s hand.

    I think the connection being made to Murakami is probably quite apt in various ways, considering how you could flip it and not be saying that it is as awesome as Murakami, but that it is as overhyped/overrated as Murakami.

    [I sit in between, I have a bit of a difficult relationship with Murakami, he has some great turns of phrases and there is a interesting something about the settings he creates, but there’s also a bit a weird creepiness to the recurrent theme of disappearing/broken women, and more than a hint of misogyny in the way he writes women]

    I was able to watch the flashback and accept it for the symbolism, especially with the whole child broiler thing, I loved the sound of the fan going in the bg.

    As for Momoka, she’s just coming across as a bit creepy? Not sure what her deal, and I’m inclined to agree with others that she’s not what she seems.

    I realise I don’t particularly like the girl with the black penguin, she just repeats over and over again the same phrase, like she’s got some OCD, which I wouldn’t be surprised if she did. They’re all psychos on this show XD.

    Agree with others that it’d be great to see Shouma finally step up and be an active agent.

    I loved the end shot where, he is cradling both his brother and sister. I would love it if he ends up being the one to save everybody!

  16. Kim says:


    I know this is not a post about Murakami but I found your comment interesting so I had to reply.

    I never really thought of Murakami as misogynist although from what I’ve read so far (and I certainly have not read everything) he does mainly look at things solely through a male perspective. Of course he is a male writer so I am not sure if I can fully fault him for this.

    Ikuhara on the other hand I feel does have a more compelling approach to gender roles than Murakami. This can be easily seen in Utena but I think even in Penguindrum the females are all well written & unique characters.

    However my comparison between the two wasn’t really in terms of content (although I will say both Murakami & Ikuhara can take us to dark places) but more in terms of storytelling style.

  17. Minnako says:

    @Snowolf: Mastermind Momoka is a terrifying thought! Definitely more behind the scenes there, especially when she made THAT face…

    I really hope Ringo doesn’t end up sacrificing herself, she’s spent long enough playing second fiddle to a sister she could never compare to in anyone’s eyes, and now that she’s finally the emotionally stable one in the series, she goes and falls in love with a guy who refuses to believe he’s worth loving (his Momoka indeed).

    I’m not sure what the deal is with Kanba and Himari – both as to how far his feelings go, which entity exactly he is in love with, and of course if they’re even siblings (Kanba being a Natsume looks like sense), but I’d argue that doesn’t mean he loves her more, only differently.

    Taking the ‘transparent person’ references in mind, could the child broiler be symbolic of those who’ve given up, who see no worth in existing, and who feel and are treated as being completely isolated from society? That seems fitting as we don’t see how Momoka got Tabuki out of that colourless place – perhaps because he had to wish himself out to be free? And when Momoka is injured, perhaps that reflects his defensiveness and lack of desire to see any worth in himself at first (not that it’s much better to live for someone else – that’s still obviously depressed.), his defenses against letting himself out of that prison. Momoka may be doing nothing more special than trying to let people out of the emotional cages they’ve put themselves in.

    @ Kero – It would be interesting to see exactly what Masoka (the girl with the black penguin) means – evidently she has a very important part to play, and I’m really wondering why Sanetoshi lets her get away with defying him…

    Shouma saving everybody FTW, now THAT would be a turnup for the books!

  18. c160 says:

    @AidanAK7 In the novels, there’s an excerpt (I think it was either right before or right after the elevator scene, and it was not included in this episode, so I suppose its no longer a spoiler) where Tabuki had an inner monologue where he said that he tried his best to keep his desire for revenge to himself, and not even telling his partner Yuri but he is also reaching his breaking point. Or something like that.

    Himari also had some inner monologue while she was dangling in the air in the novels, which was also not in this episode. The novels is a little bit better in explaining the characters I guess, but I think Ikuhara is holding back some things to make a big bang latter on, especially with Himari and Shouma’s character.

    @Kim I too agree with how there’s similarities in Murakami’s and Ikuhara’s story telling style.While I haven’t seen all their works,I think the surreal but yet not overtly supernatural or magical feel of their stories is definitely similar.Or how they just refuse to explain everything. Or how they like to throw in some really out there hilarious but yet still somewhat dark scenarios(think Nanami cow incidents for Ikuhara and the short story about the fast-food robbing couple from Murakami) ^^;

  19. kero says:


    Sidetracking into a Murakami discussion.

    I’ve not read everything by Murakami either, top of my head Norwegian Wood, South of the Border, Windup Bird Chronicle, Wild Sheep Chase, and Hardboiled Wonderland (but only one part of the story and not the more fantasy part).

    The misogyny is not out and out, but most of the women are either broken or not there, and maybe I never got how all the MC’s could be so cold/distant, but never have any problems finding enough women who want to sleep with them.. it borderlines some sort of fantasy/ wish fulfillment on Murakami’s part. I can’t really think of one main female character who didn’t end up sleeping with the MC or wasn’t mentally ill of sorts(Norwegian Wood spring to mind because it’s the one I read most recently). I couldn’t really read those parts without pulling out from the story and going ‘come on now!’

    On him being a man, and ergo, not his fault if he can’t write women properly. I don’t think gender should play into it, because there are plenty of men who write great female characters, and plenty of women who write great male characters. So I can’t agree with cutting him some slack because of this. I do want to say again I don’t dislike his works completely.. I enjoyed Wild Sheep Chase, and there is still something compelling about them.

    Anyways, back on track. I was mainly trying to say that MPD seems to get the same kind of reaction that Murakami does, aka. “he’s awesome!” or “why does everyone love him? He ain’t all that!”
    Pretty divisive!

    But like you and C160 say, MPD and Murakami give off similar feelings, with their surreal/normality setting although MPD goes a lot lot heavier into symbolism (but if I recall correctly, Wind Up Bird Chronicle was full of it too, read this years ago so can’t say for sure).
    It is a different medium after all, so as a visual form MPD can play with disjointing or synchronizing the dialogue with the imagery, which many people have pointed out.

    I didn’t know that it was originally based on a novel! After MPD ends I’d like to hear more about the where they are the same and where it deviates.

    Out of curiosity, does the anime follow the novel closely, with the things that happen (what is it that happens to Yuri in the novel with her dad? Does Ringo still put a frog on her face? How are the penguins portrayed? Are there penguins???!!!

  20. Kim says:


    I kind of agree with you that some of what Murakami writes might be a little wish fulfillment since the main protagonists always seem to have these “wild nights” lol

    I also don’t disagree with you that there are men who write good female characters but I just think Murakami in general writes from a singular male perspective, perhaps that he is most familiar with. I also don’t know if I necessarily agree that all the female characters are “broken” per say either, but maybe there is one too many like this.

    However that being said I am not sure if I would say “characters” male or female are Murakami’s strong point. I think it’s more the “way” he tells a story & the themes that run across his stories that are so engaging.

    As for the Penguindrum books I haven’t been able to read every chapter (just what is translated) but yes the Penguins are definitely there.

    I feel the anime does a better job at the surreal/symbolic part of the story. However the novels do a much better job at characterization. It’s almost like the best way to experience Penguindrum is to watch the anime & read the novel. So that is actually one fault I do have with the series.

  21. c160 says:

    MPD is not based on a novel, its more of a simultaneous release, the first novel released after the first few episodes were aired. MPD is still an anime first :) The latest novel only reached till the point where Ringo called Shouma in this episode I think. The final novel will be released after the final episode airs. So far, the novels follow the anime almost exactly, only omitting certain monologues which I think doesn’t really change much at all.Maybe except for Tabuki’s apparently sudden change of heart in this episode is better explained in the novel.

  22. imredjimmy says:

    I love you all for comparing this to Murakami’s novel! XD I just love his novels! I do agree that they have some similar elements especially in the atmosphere and the universe they create. Awesome episode! I hope they’ll be able to answer the majority of the big questions, I don’t mind if they leave some little details out as long as they manage to wrap it up well in 6 episodes! You can do it Mawaru Penguindrum!!!

  23. marktheknife says:

    This Murakami talk is quite relevant to my post from last week(and thanks @wendeego for replying, I hope I’ll get to respond to that more at some point). I think one of the big reasons I prefer MPD to Utena is this Murakami connection…the plot’s more off the rails, but at the same time there’s a definite real world with a highly symbolic (but in many ways real) magical system running under the surface. It’s really a great system for combining the symbolic depth of abstract/non-literal storytelling with the grounded-ness and satisfaction of a more traditional narrative.
    As for something more relevant to MPD, here goes:

    I think this week took the Momoka as Christ idea (“the savior of the world”) into an interesting new place. Momoka’s actions, like Christ, were truly selfless and well-intentioned. Both wanted to save people from their current miserable fates (in the Bible, from eternal death), by dissuading them from following their innately bad human nature/fate.

    But in their absence, the followers of both Saviors quickly fell astray, into hypocrisy, using the name of their savior to commit terrible acts. Perhaps, one might say that neither savior was successful in their mission – those they “saved” ended up in just as much pain, and behaving just as wrongly (but perhaps in a different way). The attempts of saviors to change fate for the better did not, and could not, work.

    This idea adds another facet to Sanetoshi-Momoka connection as well. Sanetoshi noted that they both wanted to change fate, but that Momoka did not agree with his methods or perhaps goal. I was thinking that perhaps Sanetoshi represents science/secular thought as an attempt of salvation/overcoming fate. (After all, he is playing the role of a doctor, he is a librarian, and he is constantly involved with technology and strange devices.)

    This might even point out a difference in their methods – Momoka worked to change fate with miracles, self-sacrifice, and faith things would work. Sanetoshi on the other hand seems to be playing the role of a controlling scientist, setting up an experiment to determine how he can alter fate, or if he can at all.

    I might be projecting, but I think Sanetoshi may have realized an issue with the idea of “changing fate” that I have – what if your succesful “changing of fate” was itself fated? He may have also realized the way I noted Momoka failed (not truly changing fate for the better for anyone).

    This series of thoughts has turned me in another direction – why does MPD contain the themes/motifs it does? Family, religion, secular thought, penguins…What I’m currently thinking is, at its most general sense, MPD’s about a person’s identity and its clash fitting in with the world/fate. The series discusses
    (1) the challenge that creates (penguins – flightless birds awkward on land, graceful and “itself” only in one situation. The child broiler), and
    (2) the ways you can attempt to “fix” the clash (many of which – religion and secular thought – do not work).

    Anyhow, I’m exhausted and done ranting. Night!

  24. Suumire says:

    I think Shouma has to be the one up next for this coming episode. He’s left in the pit of this episode where absolutely everyone was involved in some way but him.

    I’m sorry, but while I agree with comments that he’s the most normal character since he isnt as extreme, I think always being left out of the action has to have given him a SERIOUS complex. Kanba always seems to just tell him to smile and be good while he takes all the damage, but he was never that character really. He acts goofy here and there but he’s also always the one worrying. And like Himari it’s got to hurt to do his best to do something as well but always get there late or be left out.

    I’m expecting him to emotionally lash out or break down, and soon. Especially in the wake of almost losing his siblings. Even the doctor preluded about how he missed out again on something important.

  25. wendeego says:

    @marktheknife: So much stuff there I don’t think I can respond to all of it. But, what you said about Sanetoshi got me thinking.

    For all he says that he and Momoka are connected, they really are very different, aren’t they? Momoka reaches in and literally sacrifices herself in order to save those she loves, at great personal cost. On the other hand, I don’t think that Sanetoshi is giving any of himself at all. He manipulates things from the sidelines, and gives people cures that can delay, but not change, fate. But to me it appears that rather than change fate for others himself (and burn away by doing so) he tricks others into changing fate for him. That’s probably why he needs people like Kanba, who perhaps does contain seeds of sacrifice in himself. Shouma might not be powerless either, since he saves Ringo from drowning in episode 4 at the risk of his own life.

    One of the crazy theories I’ve heard recently is that Momoka’s potential “attack” on the subway bombings split Kenzan’s son into two, creating the Takakura brothers. What if both of them once had Momoka’s ability, but by being split into two they lost the ability to use it properly? Kanba might be able to wield a semblance of it in keeping Himari alive, but Shouma might hold the rest without knowing it. Unless I’m barking up the wrong tree altogether?!?

    Finally, regarding Penguindrum, Utena and realism–I think you’re right in that the setting of Penguindrum is more grounded in the real world. Personally, though, I found Utena a bit more “grounded” than Penguindrum. Utena was very heavily entrenched in the shoujo genre, and so engendered a whole bunch of impressions and archetypes right off the bat. When the show later broke those archetypes to pieces, it had already given time for the viewer to be firmly established in the show’s world (even though most of it was, as Akio said, an illusion.)

    Penguindrum, on the other hand, doesn’t really fit into a genre. It vaguely fits into the kind of shoujo well that Utena exists in, but otherwise it borrows from all kinds of other places, and innovates a lot of its own stuff as well. I think that’s one of the reasons why so many people find it a little unapproachable–it’s so out there that it requires real dedication to bridge the gap and see the wonders on the other side. I think this might have to do with the fact that Utena came right after Sailor Moon, meaning that Ikuhara and Yojo Enokido and everyone else were still using mahou shoujo lenses. Penguindrum, on the other hand, came ten years afterwards, and is all the stranger for it.

    Actually, I wonder what difference not having Yoji Enokido on staff makes? Is that why Penguindrum’s a relatively colder show than Utena? How would Himari or Shouma have been handled if Enokido involved? Ikuhara picked up a lot of the slack (I think it’s pretty obvious by now that he played a huge role in the formation of Utena, since so many of its themes resurface in Penguindrum) but by how much?

  26. Cryptic says:

    I would read the comments but the giant wall of text are kind of intimidating ._.

  27. Guest says:

    I just want to drop in and throw out that you really should read the fantasy half of Hardboiled Wonderland if you’re going to read it at all. It is boring at first but is the thread that ties everything together by the end, and a lot of the fun is seeing how the two stories parallel each other.

    Murakami’s women are almost uniformly plot devices and hollow, though. I don’t think he’s a misogynist so much as he doesn’t use women as real people in his stories.

  28. kero says:


    I think the msg is directed at me?

    “Murakami’s women are almost uniformly plot devices and hollow, though. I don’t think he’s a misogynist so much as he doesn’t use women as real people in his stories. ”

    In my opinion, the way you are describing how he uses women is what I would term as being misogynistic: the inability to see them as ‘real’ or being anything other that plot devices. Again I want to reiterate that I don’t think it’s full blown hate of women, but to consistently write women as non-entities does disconcert me.

    I’m not sure I’d go back to read hard-boiled. But I might read a few more of his books, I do want to check out the one about the underground attacks.

  29. marktheknife says:

    @wendeego: Yeah I wrote a shit-ton there, so no worries! Just went off on my excitement on thinking of a new theme.

    I agree that there is a huge moral difference between Momoka and Sanetoshi (barring some horrific plot twist). Furthemore, Sanetoshi’s exact role in the show and his exact plans are still a bit of a mystery. From where it stands though, it does seem like he planned the train bombings to “derail” fate, while Momoka sacrifices herself to mostly undo this damage (and thus push things back onto track). What this means thematically is kind of hard to say at this point.

    And re: Utena v. MPD’s genre “grounding,” this is actually really interesting to me as to its affect on anime watchers’ viewing habits.

    My basic question is, why do anime viewers even feel a need to squeeze MPD into a shoujo? For one thing, shoujo is a demographic label, and there’s something bizarre in how it has pretty wide applicability as a genre label (complete with its own tropes). Another is, why aren’t anime viewers more willing to view MPD as the genre mish-mash it is? Fight Club for instance was a decently-received comedy/drama/psychological thriller with extremely unusual plotting (non unlike MPD).

    This in turn has also made me think about a much broader question: how different communities use different methods to “form” genres, and how that affects the resulting art output (as, after all, genres create the base vocabulary most people use in understanding art). This would also be related to how certain genres are particularly gifted at exploring certain themes. Maybe once I finish getting this together in a grand essay I’ll post it.

  30. wendeego says:

    @marktheknife: One quibble–I think that Sanetoshi stated in episode 16 that what he (and KIBA by association?) is trying to do is put fate back on the right track. Right now my theory is that on the day of the 95 attacks, Momoka performed a track switch and drastically changed the world for better or for worse. Whether returning fate to its proper path is for better or for worse, though, is hard to say (although Sanetoshi’s resemblance to Akio, coupled with his actions so far, makes me think that he isn’t trustworthy.)

    I think that Mawaru Penguindrum is as polarizing as it is simply because it’s just so out there. Anything can happen, characters suffer grievous physical pain and continue to function, and so much is left obscure or hidden in background details for the viewer to parse. We’ve compared Penguindrum to Murakami’s works, but it strikes me that Murakami’s protagonists are generally a lot simpler/more sympathetic. The cast of Penguindrum, on the other hand, is almost uniformly emotionally fractured, and are often hiding their true feelings, to boot! It’s possible to find people to latch onto (though the novels might be more likable in how they give more insight into the characters) but the whole process is very difficult.

    I think it’s also worth saying that Fight Club is a lot tighter than Penguindrum, simply because it’s only two hours long while Penguindrum is about twelve. Penguindrum covers a lot more ground, true! But that amount of sustained, genre-busting weirdness is probably enough to turn people away who aren’t willing to do a lot of the work themselves. I mean, I like Penguindrum a lot, and think that it’s probably the best anime to air this year. But in terms of metaphor, cliffhangers, references to art and literature and willingness to spend time on seemingly inconsequential things (that turn out to be TOTALLY CONSEQUENTIAL) the show is borderline abusive to people who just want to know what the hell is going on.

    It’s a lot of fun too, though! I can just see why it might not be as much fun to everybody. Then on the other hand you have excellent shows that comment on tropes and genres like Madoka Magica, that half the fanbase reviles as overrated, explotative pap. So I guess you can’t win!

  31. Kim says:


    But a lot of people DO like Penguindrum. Of course not everyone likes it but that’s true for a lot of things. I don’t think the series is all that polarizing. No more than anything else that gains some popularity really. I do admit a surreal type of series like this is not going to be for everyone but well I can say that about a lot of things.

    As for Murakami’s characters VS Penguindrum’s. I would say the difference for me is I care more about the Penguindrium characters but I relate more to Murakami’s characters. Or to put it another way I feel more invested in Ikuhara’s characters but when I read Murakami I identify with that POV. Then again there is also a different medium at work here so it’s hard to do a direct comparison.

  32. Kim says:

    Oops sorry spelled your name wrong. I hate that you can’t edit on blogs. :(

Leave a Reply

@Mario, starting to think I didn't need my help after all. I hope they make something worthwhile.
On a unrelated note the Dark Souls 3 DLC boss is serious bullshit.
Hey Aidan, thqt Kickstarter project Mecha-ude has passed its goal (nearly double now with 10 more days to go). Seems like people getting real hype for it
Wonder if Bam has played the new Dark Souls DLC. Found it rather lacking when compared to previous DLC from the last games.
@Anon, it's just a video of a still image of anime girls in bikini's with a red circle around one of their chests. Seeing as this thing has no views or subscribers my guess is someones is fishing for views. To which i say...what really is the point of making videos if this is the only way you can get people to watch them?
[link src="
I"] hate this crap that they corrupt anime with (crappy video that insults anime)
So RWBY's back. I actually miss the whole RWBY team. Still prefer Ruby's old custom more. Nora looks cool.
With the fourth episode, Vivid Strike seems to have crossed an invisible line that makes it more like the original Nanoha shows rather than Vivid. The kind of brutal beatdown delivered by the co-protagonist and the build up to it is something quite alien to a normal SoL/Sports anime show.
Ep. 4 of Tiger Mask was a lot better than the last 3, quite a hyped fight that was a full 6mins long. Will continue watching in hope of an awesomely long final fight.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
Going back to the fanservice topic, its very easy to complain about it in anything but then something actually comes along that actually does it for you. I mean I always say that I don't watch a show/movie for its fanservice elements and stick with pictures on image boards, but then I ended up seeing a film where I actually got something out of the fanservice while watching the film its.
Kaiser Eoghan
The oujia prequel was competent genre fare, the director cared about the characters and every now and the built up a decent mood. Although jump Scares are there . And I always appreciate a horror film having a mean spirited ending. One of the rare cases where the young actors do well in a horror film. The pace is a bit uneven, rushed and a bit laggy .
Kaiser Eoghan
In the sense of how messed up/especially bleak those two episodes were.
Kaiser Eoghan
There was the sense too with both those episodes of "Jesus...I wasn't ready for that...."
Kaiser Eoghan
Though the first episode of the first season and the third episode of season 3 are very hard to beat. Adding to what I thought of s3 ep3 I felt that one hit me on the same level as s1 ep1 did so.
Though in previous seasons I generally only really liked 2 out of the 3.
@Kaiser, though the previous seasons where only 3 episodes long and you enjoyed 3 out of 6 in this season. So yo essentially get the same amount of enjoyment as previous seasons.
Kaiser Eoghan
Based on my comments, it looks like I had a mixed reaction to the third season. Three out of six, but the great was was great and forgives it but I still feel that there was more of a consistentancy in quality in the other seasons. I enjoyed every story in seasons 1 and 2.
Kaiser Eoghan
The final episode felt like a movie all on its own, I'd have gladly watched another thirty minutes of it, ending was a nice punch in the gut.
Just finished black mirror season 3. I hear people basically complaining that it's not as strong as the previous two season but I disagree. I really enjoyed this and this is a show that deserves much more episodes. Personal favorite is between shut up and dance and hated in the nation. Worst I thought was San Junipero. Overall thought each episode was interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
On the upside I loved black mirrors fifth episode, I'm a sucker for war/action-dramas and I particularly liked the tech in this one.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah this is impossible for me to sit through, the romance part is also rather dull.
Kaiser Eoghan
Eh, this fourth episode is plodding and trite, feels like a bad, poorly dated 90s film.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Third episode also instilled a great sense of paranoia.
@Kaiser: thanks for that mate. I have too much to say for Flipflappers but to put them all in coherent flow is goddamn hard. And like I said I still fell I left many details out: that gung-ho potato or Yayaka and the twins
@Friend: jugding from the last convention I went to, people loved Re:Zero customs (Emilia and Rem, Ram were highlights. Or you could try RWBY characters (I for once love to see someone cosplay Pirrha Nikos or Velvet Scarlatina)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Didn't care much for new black mirrors second episode, then again I'm not really the target for that story. The third episode while a bit heavyhanded and predictable was suspenseful, nasty/mean and I liked that about it, did in 50 minutes what some thrillers fail to achieve in two hours.
Holo is a good one :0
Materials aren't a problem at all for the most part, except for anything too crazy like working in brass. I'd prefer it to be characters I'm familiar with.
Does it matter to you that they're from shows that you like, or are you just in it for the challenge?
@Friend Aidan has some good ones there. I'd also give the cast of Akame ga Kiru a shot, I don't like the series but it has a lot of neat character designs.
I was thinking simple as I didn't know what kind of materials you got on hand. I was also thinking of Holo from spice and wolf or Kino from Kinos journey either.
Mm, Tatsumaki might be not challenging enough to design for. Doesn't Shiki simply wear either a coat or Japanese kimono? I do work in set design and not in character prop design, but I'd love to try something that would let me reasonably challenge myself.
@Friend, Spit balling here but Tatsumaki from One Punch Man? I know the costume for that one would be simple enough. Or maybe Shiki from Kara No Kyoukai?
*I don't want to do anything too complex for my first try, but I also don't want to do anything boring. Boring would be a character like Rukia or Celty. Any ideas?
I remember talking about this with Emma/Kaiser before, but has anyone here gone cosplaying at an expo before? I thought it would be neat to try designing my own costume and try something else beside drawing on a computer.
@Kaiser, I am up to episode 4. 3 has been the best one so far.Though in all these episodes I pretty much figured out the twist from the get go. Still this shows always tends to get you thinking.
Kaiser Eoghan
I think the roles/identity thing with flipflappers, at least with the protaganist does fit in well with adolescence.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I've only seen the first episode so far. I felt the acting was intentional and reflected the satire Brooker was going for on the shallow nature of society. Bleak as ever but gloriously grotesque.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario:Good in depth reviewing there Mario of flipflappers episode three.
Good god this first episode of black mirror is hard to watch. I know exactly how it's going to turn out but it's just so damn painful to watch.
Well, tbh up to where I've seen there's not much explicit yaoi in yuri on ice, only a lot of fujoshi fuel.
@Kaiser. thanks for the torrent. Gonna blaze through this today.
@Topgavin, as someone who watches a metric ton of anime I am rather surprised at that estimate that 90% of it contains Yuri.
My god those gay scenes in Yuri on Ice are hard to watch for me. Wonder if this is how it feels to be a girl watching 90% of normal anime nowadays.
okay, Flip Flappers episodic review was up. This is my lengthiest weekly review so far and I still feel I missed a lot of points. Damn you Flip Flappers
Kaiser Eoghan
You have seen the light, not needing to know everything thats happening to enjoy something ^_^
Kaiser Eoghan
I've given some consideration to reviewing that oujia film followup.
Whether you see one or the other is entirely up to your preferences, so it makes no difference to me which is worse. I have gotten very tired of generic character types, but again that's just because of the things I decide to regularly follow.
I will say if it must come down to either unnatural dialogue or unnatural character types, at leas the character type is speaking their own words and not the words of the script writer.
Or was that a black and white fallacy? Maybe it was a little of both.
@Realjustified, K-Off wasn't agreeing with me. That's a Moving the Goal Posts logical Fallacy but well I will answer regardless. Honestly it's preferable to have neither. The big mistake you are making here is that you are putting down a condiction that a show must have one or the other. But both cartoons and anime can have both. I just think it's a lot more prominent in cartoons than anime.
Like, having read hundreds of harem manga over the years, a majority of the ultimate love interest always happens to be the first girl the protagonist meets.
Wait wait wait wait. Aidan and K-Off. I get that dialogue in cartoon can seem like it was written by a script writer, but at the same time, lots of anime have characters whose sole purpose is entirely scripted. The whole spectrum of "deres" and everything. What do you think is worse? Unnatural dialogue, or unnatural character types?
You guys should really go fuck yourself, it's a solution and it's nothing short of great!
You guys should really watch the first 4 episodes of Bungo, it's a prequel and it was nothing short of great!
omg!! I just realized To be Hero was one of the show that I reviewed its 1st episode back in Chinese Animation post. I watched raw then though
forgive me if I'm a bit too overwhelmed by Flip Flappers... For this episode alone I took like 25 screenshots...trying to write a review now...
I have absolutely no idea what is going on in Flip Flappers plot. And yet for some reason I am OK with that.
Anyone out there that's a fan of crude humor should go watch ep.3 of To Be Hero. Certinately stepped it up a notch from the last two humor-wise.
One downside I can think of already is that I'm bound to lose or break one of the detachable controllers. The cost for those pieces is what I'm most interested in.
Nintendo Switch hmm? Honestly it looks too good to be true. I expect some major downsides to this thing.
I like cartoons, don't get me wrong. Certainly good for a change of pace. But there is something about the way they are written that I find rather distracting.
I don't know, maybe if I said it's like the difference from how characters talk in movie vs how characters talk in a sitcom?
@K-Off, I said one liner's or jokes. Not one liner jokes. It's hard to explain. Basically when I hear a conversation in anime even if it is based in stereotypes, it at least feels like a conversation that's being had in the moment. In cartoons however there is a layer of artificiality and it feels like characters know what a person is going to say and has a response prepared.
That's probably why some of my favorite anime in recent years haven't been very heavy on character archetypes, or were either parodies of it.
Comedic dialogue with anime in recent years have leaned too much on the idea of playing off character archetypes. The collected character vs the energetic character, for one. I'd like to see more variety. Some more word play, hyperbolic humor, body humor, etc etc.
@Aidan Not quite sure what you mean by that, because it's certainly not even a majority of cartoons that rely on cheap one liner jokes. I suppose it's entirely up to taste, but I can appreciate the energy in cartoons like Steven Universe or Regular Show when compared to the increasingly repetitive dialogue found in some recent anime.
@Topgavin: I just read that review and his main reason being Shelter is pretentious. oh well! Can't never please anyone.
Thought I'd check out the reviews for Shelter on MAl and the top review is a 1/10. Apparently because it's a cute girl we sympathise with her more, which is bad because reasons. I mean.. what? MAL never ceases to amaze me
@Mario, no. It's more that the dialogue keeps trying to push out one liners or jokes regardless of whose talking.
@Aidan: maybe because they spoke in your native language do you can feel that it's artificial, ya know? I know I have the same problem with Vietnamese drama/ cartoon and maybe Japanese people have that same issues with anime?
By which I mean, the way characters talk in cartoons is very...artificial. Like you can tell that the dialgoue was clearly written beforehand and it never really sounds natural. At least to me.
@Anon, I wouldn't. The writing and structure are too cartoon. What with the episodic nature and dialogue that generally pushes for a comedic tone.
Kaiser Eoghan
Flanagan also directed absentia which I haven't seen yet but I think someone I came across of 4chan linked it to being lovecraftian?
Kaiser Eoghan
Oculus was a film of two halves for me. Hush was a pretty standard home invasion thriller, making the victim deaf was an interesting twist but not as unique as you might think, still suspenseful though.
Kaiser Eoghan
I never saw the first oujia film. Though Mike Flanagan who did the sequel, he's never made a bad movie but he's never really made a great one either.
Kaiser Eoghan
I stick to the firm belief that cartoons and anime, visually should do and be their own thing. I'll prefer a western artstyle for cartoons rather than one pretending to look like anime style.
But this is a good topic and I'm sure everyone has their own opinions so I'm looking to hear some more arguments
@anon352392: no they aren't. For me not because of where their production based, nor their intended audience, but rather their styles, both visually and storytelling-ly, are different
Anime,” they assert, is not a “style” of illustration or animation.
That's where I differ to those guys. For me, anime is a style. In that sense, I consider RWBY, and Canadian-produced short Flutter as an anime. Thunderbolt Fantasy is not and anime-influence shows/movies that are intented for Western audience like AniMatrix or Afro Samurai are anime
@Anon nah they wouldn't be because they aren't made by a japanese producer for the japanese market. Quality isn't the question, production is
NX and Red Dead Redemption 2 trailers tomorrow.
They are good series and i honestly like them alot more than most anime series, would their quality make them anime?
What about cartoons like Steven Universe, Gravity Falls, Wander Over Yonder, Star Vs The Forces Of Evil?
In other news a sequel to an absolutely terrible horror movie called Ouija is out and it's...actually pretty good? Wondering if critics were paid off or it is legit good. Well it did have the guy who was behind Oculus and that was a pretty good movie.
Simplify the term down enough and anime is literally anything animated but the whole point of the term is to distinguish it. For to call Spongebob an anime makes me want to projectile vomit. Point is this, you say you watched a cartoon, people think Tom and jerry, Scooby doo etc. You say you watched an anime, people think Cowboy bebop, Attack on titan, etc. Whole point of the term.
For example, I don't consider Avatar or RWBY to be anime for while they use anime style, the writing is fundamentally structured like an American cartoon. Through I would consider Bloodivores an anime even though it was made by a Chinese animation company, making it technically a Chinese cartoon.
As far as what is and isn't anime I honestly think of the term as a means of distinguishing it from cartoon which gives the impression of being for children. It's like Graphic novel is to comic book. Though techically graphic novels are issues of comics bound in book form, the term Graphic novel is often used to distinguish works that go above superhero comics and whatnot.
Basically I think it was due to Porter Robinsons involvement that they didn't consider it anime.
@Aidan: Did the mods give any concrete reasons why they didn't consider it an anime?
@Mario, It wasn't the community that had the problem. It was the mods. The community made it pretty clear that they considered it anime.
So despite the art style is obviously anime, the character speaks in Japanese, and the production was animated by A1 Studios, it's not an anime? Sometimes I feel sad that the anime community keeps limiting themselves with such fixed minds.
I saw it yesterday and yes it was good. For a 5-minute story, they don't make it too overwhelme with details, and still pack an emotional punch. Moreover it elevates the song. Good stuffs.
Shelter was quite good though. It works well and the animation was beautiful. Song is not bad either. It's got a nice emotional punch to it though it's a bit simple a story.
Well anyway I only saw all this because I checked out the video for the first time and wanted to see how others thought of it with a quick scan through reddit. And I get this shitshow instead.
Playing the victim is the one really pisses off the internet. For refusing to admit you f*cked up only encourages people to shove how you f*cked up into your face. That's what really grinds peoples gears.
Yep, seen that too. The mods even put up another tread about the video and tried to guilt trip people by saying they got death threats. Look, internet rules 101. If you said or did something stupid admit to it and just walk away. Do not try to deflect blame or play the victim, that only adds fuel to the fire.
@Aidan oh yeah saw that live lol. Porter himself even commented on twitter about it, gotta love internet drama
So did anyone happen to catch the big old shitstorm of that Shelter music music when a mod of the Anime subreddit decided it wasn't "Anime" enough and removed the discussion post about it? Oh internet drama...what silly nonsense.
Finally caught up with JoJo. Diamond is Unbreakable has turned out to be much better than Stardust Crusaders. Should have waited for the season to finish through as I really loved marathoning it.
I had a feeling that might be the case considering the source materail for luger.
@Mario Oh I watched that, certinately worth it. Packed more story that some 12-episode shows do nowadays and gorgeous animation.
and I will check out "Shelter" music video to see what all the fuss is about
*this weekend to be exact.
Sounds like Luger Code 1951 is an OVA that will air next week, the same air date with "my" Zaregoto OVA.
@Mario: doesn't sound real at all to me lol
@Mario, I might be able to manage. If all else fails I can talk about the past of these historical figures.
While I don't mind watchinng Drifters, I swaer if I had to cover that show, I couldn't come up with anything to say.
Do you guys know what language the fairies speak in Drifters? It does sound like a genuine language
@topgavin: humanity has declined is a great show. It has good writing and dark, witty sense of humor. I could talk about it in length but psgels pretty much covered it all. He was really impressed by that show however.
That should be me covered till the weekend. Why do all my shows air on the weekend...
@Mario nah I've watched the whole thing but I'd heard about it at the start of this year and put it off. The dialogue between her and the fairies was great stuff, probably gonna rewatch it this weekend now that you mention it
Alright, I got three posts written up and will be throwing them out in about two hours or do.
I thought you've finished it. Yeah I love her character a lot, so cynical but witty. My favorite moment was when she read about fairy's plan to invent religions. She was like "so religions are invented?" (beat) "I've learn something new today". Priceless
@Mario Oh nice, it was one that I had heard about but never got round to. To put it in simple anime terms, Watashi is best girl
@topgavin: I just finished the series yo mentioned the other day: humanity is declined. Man, I love it. I know now I have a thing for dark twisted absurdist anime
@Ano340004: the name is Watashi ga Motete Dousunda, or to put it short Motete. I have fun with it but i'm not that enthuastic
@anon the english name is Kiss him, not me. Search through the first impressions if you need the jap name.
then that girl really loves BL (boy love)
what is the name of the anime that the girl is fat and then she got depressed because her favorite boy anime died then she got thin?
Season 7 is awesome so far too. It feels like the tone of the show is finally back to normal and it feels like Adventure Time again.
Whew, I binged all seasons of Adventure Time this weekend. The show hit a low spot in Season 6 but I think it needed to happen...Poor Finn needed the serious character development after what he did to FP.
You guys are too hard on it
Motete is very funny
Kaiser Eoghan
When it comes to gag manga and four-koma, I just eventually reach a stopping point with a comedy series in that format. Even with hidamari sketch.
I think it was typical light novel trash based on what was in the PV. I laughed that despite it being horrible that the crowd still cheered anyway, likely because it had a bath clip in it.
The PV was hilarious. I had no idea what the anime was about.
@Aidan I'm good, I'll stick with Working.
@K-Off, you could switch to something like Gi(a)rlish Number if you like. I for one am really digging the satire of the show. Plus I like that it's basically showing how an utter train-wreck of an anime can be made. That PV in the last episode was truly painful.
Feeling pretty disappointed with Working. I haven't gotten any more cynical with comedies, at least I don't think, and its flaws are so irritating.
@Adam Le, I find that with Comic book dialogue. Which is one of the reasons I have gone off marvel movies. Cartoons have it to a degree as well.
I love the instagram shots in Yuri
Maybe I can have a watch through those live action films and do a compare/contrast to see which version works better. After all movie and tv series are 2 different medium, and live-action vs animation is the topic that we never get tired of
speaking of which, the overlap between anime and live-action adaptation from manga is overwhelming. For this year alone, there were Erased, 3-gatsu no Lion, Fune o Amu, orange, and Chihayafuru (part 1&2). Those were just the ones I know.
@Adam: Don't know which genre you're into but you can try Fune o Amu (The Great Passage)
Adam Le
I can't seem to get into any of these new shows. I don't know, the dialogue always seems off to me and the forced comedy is a big turn off.
Reminds me of a thought I had when I was last at the Getty art museum. People walking past works of art hundreds of years old, but only taking a second-long glance before moving on to the next one. Not their fault really, it's only the professional critics who can understand what they see with depth.
I'm the opposite really, they're getting paid for what they said so they better know their shits
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose I'm slightly envious of professional critics somewhat.
Sometimes you're just meant to experience the ride you know. I don't watch those explained video anymore because after all it's just one guy's opinions.
Kaiser Eoghan
Kaiser Eoghan
And I mean people who art professionals or students.
Kaiser Eoghan
I guess I'm just unsure of something, how many people watching "arty" stuff are able to pick it up on their own. By looking up an "explained video" or "explained essay" to get it, am I copping out?
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Featured Posts


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