Posted by psgels on 11 November 2011 with categories: Mawaru Penguin Drum




Yeah, this episode was another one of those “batman having tea with superman”-episodes. This episode was just amazing, as it combined the talents of two wildly different directors, Kunihiko Ikura and Shigeyasu Yamauchi, into one. The result was an episode with a ton of weird twists, strong character development and a ton of symbolism, combined with a style that is masterful at getting genuine emotions out of the characters and terrific at subtle pacing.

I can’t believe how well the two blended with each other. Tabuki really got a wonderful episode through this. Ikuhara even gave Shigeyasu Yamauchi the freedom of handling the background art much different from usual, and that too resulted in a ton of eye candy. Tabuki ended up as a great villain through this. On top of that Momoka also got a lot of depth, and the main cast also got much closer to each other. Especially the aftermath of this episode felt very intimate.

Also, the eye-catch. It just revealed another turning-point, as expected. Right now we’re in the background arc, in which all of the side-characters get the chance to show their stories and backgrounds. At the moment the only ones left are Tabuki and the parents who set everything in motion. I can only imagine what the creators have planned for after that. It’s that final arc where they really have to show that they know how to use their build-up.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

32 Responses

  1. Alec says:

    This episode really got my attention. It was intense.

    There is only 1 thing that bothered me was the semi-predictable scene in the end, which the mass probably wanted (not gonna spoil)

    Also, I would’ve preferred if we actually saw the events in Tabuki’s past rather than seeings scenes about symbolism. Not that I hate it or anything

  2. ojamajo_limepie says:

    Speaking of eye candy, Umakoshi Yoshihiko, character designer of Heartcatch Precure and Casshern Sins, animated key parts of this episode.

  3. DmonHiro says:

    I’m just curious how Tabuki saved Himari at the end. What the hell did he do? Can he fly?

  4. jzar says:

    **some spoilers**

    I really like the show but I have to say this episode was the least enjoyable for me so far. The parts of it that needed to be very believable just didn’t work.

    How could Tabuki could do what he did without a whole team of experts to back him up. It was so annoying that it ended up really getting in the way of the story.

    Didn’t he just run into the girl by accident?
    …Locking the girl in an elevator?
    …How did he have all those remotes and high grade plastic explosives ready for a spur of the moment decision?
    …Grabbing a moving steel cable with your bare hand? that would not just damage your hand it would be like sticking your hand into a high speed cheese grater.

    If Tabuki had photo’s of the black hats why didn’t he follow them back to the man who really did kill his lover?
    …. I could go on and on, it really was that bad.

    I would have much rather seen the mentally unstable Tabuki hold a knife to the throat. Just something spur of the moment and simple.

    The other background stories were really good and worked so well. I suppose it made the flaws in this one stand out to me.

    Just my take and it is a realitivly small thing because the acting and the animation was really good. They have some high standards to maintain and this episode was a bit of a letdown.

  5. hurin says:

    #jzar.

    Kanba also shouldn’t have been able to walk away from getting dragged after a truck, and Shouma should have died from the car crash.

    But of course it is also not logical for dead people to be revived by penguin hats.

    I hope the mystery as to the brothers invulnerability will be explained later. Maybe penguin 1, 2 and 3 are absorbing their damage somehow.

  6. Son Gohan says:

    @jzar: This show is highly symbolical. You shouldn’t think about how Tabuki saved Himari. What’s important is that he changed his mind after seeing the sibling’s love for each other.

  7. jzar says:

    Son Gohan-
    This show is highly symbolical. You shouldn’t think about how Tabuki saved Himari. What’s important is that he changed his mind after seeing the sibling’s love for each other.

    I totally agree…..it saved the episode for me…that was a great moment.

  8. Snowolf says:

    I really enjoyed Tabuki’s backstory- while I felt that it was the most abstract out of all the ones we’ve seen in some time, I did enjoy all the symbolism (the child broiler was really intense!) and you could definitely see how he really bonded to Momoka. It’s interesting how both Tabuki and Yuri view Momoka as some kind of God who came out of the heavens to change their life imminently, instead of just a faithful friend. Their lives revolve around her. Of course, I only have this fear that Momoka, like almost all of the characters in this show, is not what she seems, and that a much more sinister motive lurks behind that innocent smile. Her way of saying “Live for me!” and “I love you” seem almost stand out amongst a sea of almost too-dramatic sayings somehow. I mean, how did these two even really meet? Tabuki, unlike Yuri did not even know Momoka existed before this; of course, this is all figuratively speaking, so Tabuki may have had some knowledge of Momoka’s existence and the POV that we saw was at the specific time when Tabuki was at his lowest point. Tabuki’s parents also reminded me a lot of the parents in this show, and the theme of high expectations passing down from one to another. The Takakura’s unconsciously passed down their sin to their children; the Oginome parents passed down the strain of their relationship onto Ringo, who tried turning into Momoka to save that relationship, Yuri’s father physically abused her (and raped? I’m still not sure and I kind of don’t want to know) and now we see Tabuki’s mother as one who forced her own ideals of perfection (just like Yuri’s father had his ideals of perfection- Yuri and Tabuki almost mirror each other in terms of their parents and how they were treated) onto him and his little brother. Which resulted in him purposely crushing his hand so he could have an excuse not to play piano.

    While it’s kind of sad, I still in no way have any sympathy for Tabuki’s actions, which seemed to be more out of self-loathing and self-pity than actual revenge. Tabuki laments the fact that he wasn’t able to do anything about Momoka’s death, and immaturely puts that blame (in quite a gruesome and heart stopping fashion) onto Kanba and Himari. In the end, he finally grows weary (or gains sympathy, realizes his actions?) and saves Himari, but nevertheless, we were really able to see how desperate he had become. Which leads me to wonder- while both Tabuki and Yuri met Momoka for the better, they have only turned out to be vicious monsters of their own grim fate. As Ringo rightfully (ugh, I love this girl!) says at the end- she won’t grow up hating the family when it was her own sister who died at the hands of the Takakura parents, not just because she loves Shouma, but also because she realizes that grief, loss, and happiness all play a part in one’s life, and it’s up to us whether to accept that or not. But Tabuki and Yuri have grown haunted, almost into corpses reeking of self hatred, shared by their bond with Momoka. Of course, it seems that Yuri is a little more mature than Tabuki, slapping him in the face (damn straight!) after seeing what he did and his patheticness at doing it.

    I’m still annoyed that this show isn’t making full use of Shouma’s character- he’s my favorite, despite his inherent uselessness and lack of tack and coming on time, but that’s not his fault- I blame the show. Shouma is the only character in this show who isn’t fucked up somehow/has shady intentions and thus I really want him to play a major part in the end, if he can. I have a feeling he’s connected to the Penguindrum, considering that the show’s focus on Kanba and his countless sacrifices (as Himari said rightly- enough already!) might just be a little red herring so that we don’t think about Shouma. If that’s true, that would be excellent; I’m just dying for Shouma to actually accomplish something, though I feel like his relationship with Ringo is really going to amount to something important in the end, rather than him actually doing something.

    Going back to the Himari/Kanba scenes- damn, that was intense. I was literally clutching the end of my seat. Damn you Ikuhara! But oh boy, the use of music during that scene was fantastic. A major problem I have with this show is its lack of good BGM- which is actually a bigger factor in creating/evoking emotions than people think (think horror, folks, and all those violins) but this episode did a nice job of using the BGM well.

    Also, Shigeyasu Yamauchi directing this episode was a dream come true. I could totally spot his signature styles of shooting things in different ways and adding a lot of gorgeous visual feasts to the action scenes as well as the flashback scenes. HEARTS IN MY EYES, I’m telling you.

    I’m still a little concerned about how this show is going to wrap up in only eight more episodes, but that’s still enough time. It feels like this is more of a 50-episode show, but now that we have formally introduced everyone (except for Sanetoshi, whose random 2 minute scene was just…weird- what’s up with that rabbit fetish, I would like to know) hopefully we’ll start moving toward a good climax. It’s been a fun train ride, and now it’s finally time to wrap up all of these loose strings and tie them into a grand finale!

  9. nodbgp says:

    I think we will still get a lot of background on the family, I still don’t believe any of the three are bound by blood, we still have to get what the parents and consequently the organization reasons and goals are. The episode in itself was awesome in what it turned Tabuki into. Looking forward to the answers and to the ending, hoping they are able to wrap it up the best way possible, which I have no idea how should be.

  10. AidanAK47 says:

    And the Tabuki flashback as predicted. Thankfully shorter than I expected. Alright, I did enjoy some of it but that this point I sighed at yet another back story which included a parent forcing unreasonable conditions on a child. There are issues one can gain that don’t involve terrible parenting! On top of that we have the highly nonsense plan of Tabuki which I really don’t see the point of. Tabuki previously stated that he didn’t want revenge and now he suddenly does and portrays himself as a dark individual despite being shown as a pretty ordinary and reasonable guy beforehand. So yep, this whole thing stank of an act. I didn’t believe he was going to kill any of these kids for a second. That sort of killed the tension.
    And for the love of god. Himari, pulling the fake death card again? I can’t give a crap any more. I know you are not going to die. Nobody ever dies. Drama = completely pointless.
    “On top of that Momoka also got a lot of depth”
    Yes, she changed from a character who saved a disturbed child to…she changed from a character who saved two disturbed children. Wow. That’s deep.

    “This show is highly symbolical. You shouldn’t think about how Tabuki saved Himari. What’s important is that he changed his mind after seeing the sibling’s love for each other.”

    Just because a show is symbolic does not mean it has the right not to make sense. Besides that a pretty poor overused plot twist.

    Ahh…why oh why can’t I just shut of my brain and ignore this nonsense crap. I can do it fine for Mirai Nikki but maybe that’s because I know what I am getting.

  11. wendeego says:

    Interesting thing about Shouma…from the end of the corresponding chapter in the novel:

    “I have to be stronger too. No matter how unfair it might seem, if this is our fate, then I have to accept it and become stronger. I dried my tears on my sleeve and stopped lying to myself. I’m never going to run away again, not from fate and not from Oginome.”

    So I’m guessing that by the next episode he will be playing an active role in the plot. We will see!

    As for parenting issues and the sense of disbelief…well, Ikuhara loves illusions. The crux of Utena was a fairy tale that turned out to be a cage, and I’d guess that Penguindrum is structurally similar–an inescapable train en route to Death, for example. The conflict of the show comes from breaking out of the restrictions of society and finding a path towards happiness and understanding. That can only come about through sacrifice and enormous love, and I’m guessing that’s closely associated with the Penguindrum.

    AidanAK47, I’d agree with you that it’s a little strange that everybody’s issues appear to come from terrible parenting, if it wasn’t for the fact that carrying the sins of the fathers/mothers is so obviously key to the themes of the show. Just about every main character in the show except for Momoka and Sanetoshi are hanging above the child broiler by their fingernails: Himari on the brink of death, Kanba and Shouma abandoned by their parents, Yuri and Tabuki the product of an abusive mother and father respectively, and even Ringo in a situation where nothing she can do will ever bring her family back together.

    If you think about it, this entire show has been haunted by those recycled children in the child broiler. Remember the OP, with shards of glass flying by as Himari falls? After this episode we know that those are the remains of children who have been abandoned by the world. Think about it that way, and the great majority of the cast of Penguindrum are perversions of fate, somehow maintaining their existence in the world when they shouldn’t even be alive in the first place. Yuri and Tabuki were saved by Momoka, but Ringo and the Takakuras have been getting by through willpower alone (if only barely.) Is it any wonder that they are to be punished?

    So yeah–I think the emphasis on parent issues is more of a thematic choice than evidence of a lack of imagination. As for the strangeness of the plot, think of it more like a Haruki Murakami novel–where momentous things are happening under the surface but are never fully explained–and it becomes a bit more understandable. If you just aren’t digging it than I guess there’s not much anyone can do, though. I think it’s obvious by this point that Penguindrum is definitely not for everybody!

  12. Minnako says:

    @ Snowolf: Exactly!

    Momoka isn’t (at least I think not) a deity – she couldn’t possibly save everyone, even within the realms of plausibility of her powers it would just be too much for her to bear. Yet, instead of taking what she did for them and living on, the people she saved were never really saved – they never got over the darkness in their past, and the minute she’s not there to provide validation for them they turn into warped people intent on revenge. As if saintly Momoka would want that. Which makes me feel that in some way Momoka didn’t really ‘save’ them at all – instead of being turned into powdered glass or whatever, they just became something worse because they never learned how to live for themselves. I don’t know what that’s trying to say about what it means to try to ‘save’ those you love – should you do it? Maybe that they need more support? No, I can’t really condone his actions, either – losing one person, even if it is the first person who gave you validation, doesn’t mean that 16 years later you get to enact revenge.

    I’m not sure that Yuri slapped him because he did something pathetic (she did try to rape Momoka’s kid sister, after all), maybe for having the audacity to lie to her, to take her prey? Maybe for having the guts to realise what a broken individual he currently is, and for not taking it to the conclusion he planned?

    Interestingly, even though Himari could be Momoka’s reincarnation, I think in some ways it’s Ringo now playing her role – trying to validate people who feel they just aren’t good enough through no fault of their own. She’s not saintlike, but at least she doesn’t pronounce undying love for everyone in some selfless obsession for saving them all. I’d be very interested to see what the psychological effects of her power are, though. People in the position to save others (rescue workers, healthcare professionals, etc) can suffer from really bad burnout from getting too involved and literally feeling like they need to save everyone because they can. I’d like to see what the deal is behind her facade, because right now she’s just too perfect.

    It’s not Shouma’s fault he’s late and never the one to save Himari – it’s not like Kanba gives anyone that chance. Kanba’s always been the morally ambiguous one willing to do things normal teenagers just wouldn’t think of, and keeping it all secret from Shouma. So I feel it’s unfair when people think this implies Shouma cares less about saving his sister. He just doesn’t know what to do, and we know he has normal scruples, that he’s had to put aside plenty of times. I’d argue that he’s had it harder than Kanba, because Kan feels that he NEEDS to go to ridiculous lengths, he’s almost masochistic, and he’d be worse off if he didn’t – bearing the brunt of the cost is less of a punishment for Kanba than doing nothing.

    Sanetoshi evidently took the pictures of Kanba at his leisure and then told Tabuki at this particular time – why? Does that mean Himari wasn’t fibbing when she said she had her doctor’s approval? After all, we only saw the rabbit boys talking to her brothers. What is this dude scheming, I wonder?

  13. Kim says:

    @Snowolf,

    I expect Shouma to start playing a more active part in the final 6 episodes…which will also cover the final novel of the story.

    I think the novel does a better job than the anime of defining what Shouma’s role will be. He’s been inactive on purpose because of his own self doubt & feeling of worthlessness. That is definitely going to change.

    @Weendeego

    Completely agreed! And I can’t believe people are actually complaining that everyone had messed up parents…it’s called tying things together by singular theme? Didn’t Sanetoshi say it in a previous episode: children are supposed to love their parents no matter what? The entire theme of the series has been putting the sins of the parents onto the children.

    And I always wanted to say that people who complain about Penguindrum better never read a Murakami novel so I am glad you brought him up. Not that I think Ikuhara is on the same level as Murakami (who is one of my favorite authors) but the way they tell a story is definitely similar. Of course Ikuhara references Murakami in Penguindrum so it’s obvious he’s a fan & I highly approve.

  14. Snowolf says:

    @Minnako, Kim: You’ve captured my thoughts exactly! I mean, the way everyone portrays Momoka, it sounds as if she’s some kind of magical, divine goddess, combined with her ability to change fate (I am still not sure about this ability, but I have a feeling it will be brought to light soon enough). And yet, everyone who has met Momoka has never actually gotten over their dark past. Yuri ironically becomes an actress to prove her self-worth, and to show that she is beautiful. Tabuki becomes a teacher in the hopes that he will actually be able to contribute something toward other people’s lives. And yet they are fundamentally, two broken individuals who are only married due to their shared connection with Momoka and their shared belief that her Diary will somehow bring her back. In that way, Momoka really hasn’t saved anyone, and I have this terrible feeling that this is the way she wanted it to happen- that she’s the mastermind behind some of this, somehow. Instead of becoming independent, they have grown shallow and lost, more desperate than ever.

    Which really brings me to the main interest behind Penguindrum- the fact that so far, the adults are the ones with childish, immature dreams, while the children are the ones acting mature and trying to realize the reality of their situation. Neither Kanba, Shouma, Ringo or Himari at this point are hopelessly lost or idealistic; even Natsume is working hard to achieve her dreams rather than be dragged back into her past, hopelessly wandering. Tabuki and Yuri however, are ghosts of their own haunted pasts, and are lingering in some kind of limbo where they can’t progress forward because they’re afraid of change, and they are afraid of progress in the first place. Their lives were validated by Momoka, and without her they are empty souls. It’s similar to Utena’s genderswap, but it’s more of an…ageswap in Penguindrum.

    I’m really loving Ringo- she’s my favorite character (and has always been) because out of all the characters in thsi show, she’s the one who has recieved the most development. While I don’t think she’s becoming a saintlike figure, I do agree that she’s definitely gathered up the courage to move on and fight destiny, despite saying that she accepts and loves fate. I don’t think she’s become too perfect- I mean, heck she was a creepy stalker only 10 episodes ago, but I think by meeting Shouma she’s become self-aware and has understood the consequences of her actions. However, the two openings of the show display Ringo being wrapped up in flames- does this mean that she will become the next Momoka and end up saving the Takakura family (how ironic would that be?) and end up sacrificing herself? This kind of ties back to my idea that rather than being an active participator, Shouma’s relationship with Ringo will bear fruit to something more powerful than Kanba’s countless sacrifices. I definitely agree with you on Shouma- just because he’s not there on time doesn’t mean he doesn’t love Himari any less (well he might, considering that Kanba is actually in love with Himari) Shouma has definitely gone through a huge personal identity crisis in this show for the most part, but with the novel/this episode, this suggests that his time of strife has finally come to an end, so hopefully we’ll see something good happen! Kanba irritates me slightly with his lack of self-worth; in a way I feel Himari is HIS Momoka, as she is the person who gives HIM validation to live (as he said when he was saving her life- his life means nothing without her). Which brings me back to thinking- will he end up like Tabuki, if Himari is to truly die?

    I…honestly don’t know what to think of Sanetoshi. Part of me is terrified that he’ll become the next Akio, and then another part of me thinks that this guy is just some sort of hidden plot device. But the fact that a.) he TOLD Himari (or rather, he approved) to go out knowing quite well that she needed the medicine before midnight and b.) took pictures of Kanba and then gave them to Tabuki is definitely devious to me. I don’t know what he’s up to and that scares me.

    Also, some food for thought; The whole “invisible entity” idea? Think back to Sakakibara Seito, the then-juvenile perpetrator of two vicious child murders in Tokyo back in 1997.

    On June 6, a letter was sent to the newspaper Kobe Shinbun, in which Sakakibara claimed responsibility for the slaying and decapitation of Jun Hase, and threatened that more killings would follow. This second letter, delivered in a brown envelope postmarked June 3, had no return address or name. Enclosed was a three-page, 1400-word letter, also written in red ink, which included a six-character name that can be pronounced as “Sakakibara Seito.” The same characters, which mean alcohol, devil, rose, saint and fight, were used in the first message that was inserted into the boy’s mouth.

    Beginning with the phrase “Now, it’s the beginning of a game,” the letter stated that “I am putting my life at stake for the sake of this game… If I’m caught, I’ll probably be hanged… police should be angrier and more tenacious in pursuing me…. It’s only when I kill that I am liberated from the constant hatred that I suffer and that I am able to attain peace. It is only when I give pain to people that I can ease my own pain.” The letter also lashed out against the Japanese educational system, calling it “compulsory education that formed me, an invisible person.”
    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seito_Sakakibara#cite_note-1)
    Wikipedia translated the phrase “透明な存在” (toumei na sonzai) as “invisible person”, but the translation “invisible entity” is also suffice.

    This might be a long shot, but it was one of the first things that came to my mind after I watched the show. But considering that Ikuhara has stuffed this show with a lot of allusions back to the many dark secrets of Japan, I wouldn’t be surprised.

  15. kero says:

    Interesting to read the comment on the possible link to the child killings. Hard to say if it is intentional or not, as I think the idea of feeling invisible as a child isn’t unique.
    ___

    My reaction to this episode was that I like it more last weeks episode, and now at least I know about Tabuki’s hand.

    I think the connection being made to Murakami is probably quite apt in various ways, considering how you could flip it and not be saying that it is as awesome as Murakami, but that it is as overhyped/overrated as Murakami.

    [I sit in between, I have a bit of a difficult relationship with Murakami, he has some great turns of phrases and there is a interesting something about the settings he creates, but there’s also a bit a weird creepiness to the recurrent theme of disappearing/broken women, and more than a hint of misogyny in the way he writes women]

    I was able to watch the flashback and accept it for the symbolism, especially with the whole child broiler thing, I loved the sound of the fan going in the bg.

    As for Momoka, she’s just coming across as a bit creepy? Not sure what her deal, and I’m inclined to agree with others that she’s not what she seems.

    I realise I don’t particularly like the girl with the black penguin, she just repeats over and over again the same phrase, like she’s got some OCD, which I wouldn’t be surprised if she did. They’re all psychos on this show XD.

    Agree with others that it’d be great to see Shouma finally step up and be an active agent.

    I loved the end shot where, he is cradling both his brother and sister. I would love it if he ends up being the one to save everybody!

  16. Kim says:

    @Kero,

    I know this is not a post about Murakami but I found your comment interesting so I had to reply.

    I never really thought of Murakami as misogynist although from what I’ve read so far (and I certainly have not read everything) he does mainly look at things solely through a male perspective. Of course he is a male writer so I am not sure if I can fully fault him for this.

    Ikuhara on the other hand I feel does have a more compelling approach to gender roles than Murakami. This can be easily seen in Utena but I think even in Penguindrum the females are all well written & unique characters.

    However my comparison between the two wasn’t really in terms of content (although I will say both Murakami & Ikuhara can take us to dark places) but more in terms of storytelling style.

  17. Minnako says:

    @Snowolf: Mastermind Momoka is a terrifying thought! Definitely more behind the scenes there, especially when she made THAT face…

    I really hope Ringo doesn’t end up sacrificing herself, she’s spent long enough playing second fiddle to a sister she could never compare to in anyone’s eyes, and now that she’s finally the emotionally stable one in the series, she goes and falls in love with a guy who refuses to believe he’s worth loving (his Momoka indeed).

    I’m not sure what the deal is with Kanba and Himari – both as to how far his feelings go, which entity exactly he is in love with, and of course if they’re even siblings (Kanba being a Natsume looks like sense), but I’d argue that doesn’t mean he loves her more, only differently.

    Taking the ‘transparent person’ references in mind, could the child broiler be symbolic of those who’ve given up, who see no worth in existing, and who feel and are treated as being completely isolated from society? That seems fitting as we don’t see how Momoka got Tabuki out of that colourless place – perhaps because he had to wish himself out to be free? And when Momoka is injured, perhaps that reflects his defensiveness and lack of desire to see any worth in himself at first (not that it’s much better to live for someone else – that’s still obviously depressed.), his defenses against letting himself out of that prison. Momoka may be doing nothing more special than trying to let people out of the emotional cages they’ve put themselves in.

    @ Kero – It would be interesting to see exactly what Masoka (the girl with the black penguin) means – evidently she has a very important part to play, and I’m really wondering why Sanetoshi lets her get away with defying him…

    Shouma saving everybody FTW, now THAT would be a turnup for the books!

  18. c160 says:

    @AidanAK7 In the novels, there’s an excerpt (I think it was either right before or right after the elevator scene, and it was not included in this episode, so I suppose its no longer a spoiler) where Tabuki had an inner monologue where he said that he tried his best to keep his desire for revenge to himself, and not even telling his partner Yuri but he is also reaching his breaking point. Or something like that.

    Himari also had some inner monologue while she was dangling in the air in the novels, which was also not in this episode. The novels is a little bit better in explaining the characters I guess, but I think Ikuhara is holding back some things to make a big bang latter on, especially with Himari and Shouma’s character.

    @Kim I too agree with how there’s similarities in Murakami’s and Ikuhara’s story telling style.While I haven’t seen all their works,I think the surreal but yet not overtly supernatural or magical feel of their stories is definitely similar.Or how they just refuse to explain everything. Or how they like to throw in some really out there hilarious but yet still somewhat dark scenarios(think Nanami cow incidents for Ikuhara and the short story about the fast-food robbing couple from Murakami) ^^;

  19. kero says:

    @kim

    Sidetracking into a Murakami discussion.

    I’ve not read everything by Murakami either, top of my head Norwegian Wood, South of the Border, Windup Bird Chronicle, Wild Sheep Chase, and Hardboiled Wonderland (but only one part of the story and not the more fantasy part).

    The misogyny is not out and out, but most of the women are either broken or not there, and maybe I never got how all the MC’s could be so cold/distant, but never have any problems finding enough women who want to sleep with them.. it borderlines some sort of fantasy/ wish fulfillment on Murakami’s part. I can’t really think of one main female character who didn’t end up sleeping with the MC or wasn’t mentally ill of sorts(Norwegian Wood spring to mind because it’s the one I read most recently). I couldn’t really read those parts without pulling out from the story and going ‘come on now!’

    On him being a man, and ergo, not his fault if he can’t write women properly. I don’t think gender should play into it, because there are plenty of men who write great female characters, and plenty of women who write great male characters. So I can’t agree with cutting him some slack because of this. I do want to say again I don’t dislike his works completely.. I enjoyed Wild Sheep Chase, and there is still something compelling about them.

    Anyways, back on track. I was mainly trying to say that MPD seems to get the same kind of reaction that Murakami does, aka. “he’s awesome!” or “why does everyone love him? He ain’t all that!”
    Pretty divisive!

    But like you and C160 say, MPD and Murakami give off similar feelings, with their surreal/normality setting although MPD goes a lot lot heavier into symbolism (but if I recall correctly, Wind Up Bird Chronicle was full of it too, read this years ago so can’t say for sure).
    It is a different medium after all, so as a visual form MPD can play with disjointing or synchronizing the dialogue with the imagery, which many people have pointed out.

    @C160
    I didn’t know that it was originally based on a novel! After MPD ends I’d like to hear more about the where they are the same and where it deviates.

    Out of curiosity, does the anime follow the novel closely, with the things that happen (what is it that happens to Yuri in the novel with her dad? Does Ringo still put a frog on her face? How are the penguins portrayed? Are there penguins???!!!

  20. Kim says:

    @Kero,

    I kind of agree with you that some of what Murakami writes might be a little wish fulfillment since the main protagonists always seem to have these “wild nights” lol

    I also don’t disagree with you that there are men who write good female characters but I just think Murakami in general writes from a singular male perspective, perhaps that he is most familiar with. I also don’t know if I necessarily agree that all the female characters are “broken” per say either, but maybe there is one too many like this.

    However that being said I am not sure if I would say “characters” male or female are Murakami’s strong point. I think it’s more the “way” he tells a story & the themes that run across his stories that are so engaging.

    As for the Penguindrum books I haven’t been able to read every chapter (just what is translated) but yes the Penguins are definitely there.

    I feel the anime does a better job at the surreal/symbolic part of the story. However the novels do a much better job at characterization. It’s almost like the best way to experience Penguindrum is to watch the anime & read the novel. So that is actually one fault I do have with the series.

  21. c160 says:

    @kero
    MPD is not based on a novel, its more of a simultaneous release, the first novel released after the first few episodes were aired. MPD is still an anime first :) The latest novel only reached till the point where Ringo called Shouma in this episode I think. The final novel will be released after the final episode airs. So far, the novels follow the anime almost exactly, only omitting certain monologues which I think doesn’t really change much at all.Maybe except for Tabuki’s apparently sudden change of heart in this episode is better explained in the novel.

  22. imredjimmy says:

    I love you all for comparing this to Murakami’s novel! XD I just love his novels! I do agree that they have some similar elements especially in the atmosphere and the universe they create. Awesome episode! I hope they’ll be able to answer the majority of the big questions, I don’t mind if they leave some little details out as long as they manage to wrap it up well in 6 episodes! You can do it Mawaru Penguindrum!!!

  23. marktheknife says:

    This Murakami talk is quite relevant to my post from last week(and thanks @wendeego for replying, I hope I’ll get to respond to that more at some point). I think one of the big reasons I prefer MPD to Utena is this Murakami connection…the plot’s more off the rails, but at the same time there’s a definite real world with a highly symbolic (but in many ways real) magical system running under the surface. It’s really a great system for combining the symbolic depth of abstract/non-literal storytelling with the grounded-ness and satisfaction of a more traditional narrative.
    ——
    As for something more relevant to MPD, here goes:

    I think this week took the Momoka as Christ idea (“the savior of the world”) into an interesting new place. Momoka’s actions, like Christ, were truly selfless and well-intentioned. Both wanted to save people from their current miserable fates (in the Bible, from eternal death), by dissuading them from following their innately bad human nature/fate.

    But in their absence, the followers of both Saviors quickly fell astray, into hypocrisy, using the name of their savior to commit terrible acts. Perhaps, one might say that neither savior was successful in their mission – those they “saved” ended up in just as much pain, and behaving just as wrongly (but perhaps in a different way). The attempts of saviors to change fate for the better did not, and could not, work.

    This idea adds another facet to Sanetoshi-Momoka connection as well. Sanetoshi noted that they both wanted to change fate, but that Momoka did not agree with his methods or perhaps goal. I was thinking that perhaps Sanetoshi represents science/secular thought as an attempt of salvation/overcoming fate. (After all, he is playing the role of a doctor, he is a librarian, and he is constantly involved with technology and strange devices.)

    This might even point out a difference in their methods – Momoka worked to change fate with miracles, self-sacrifice, and faith things would work. Sanetoshi on the other hand seems to be playing the role of a controlling scientist, setting up an experiment to determine how he can alter fate, or if he can at all.

    I might be projecting, but I think Sanetoshi may have realized an issue with the idea of “changing fate” that I have – what if your succesful “changing of fate” was itself fated? He may have also realized the way I noted Momoka failed (not truly changing fate for the better for anyone).

    This series of thoughts has turned me in another direction – why does MPD contain the themes/motifs it does? Family, religion, secular thought, penguins…What I’m currently thinking is, at its most general sense, MPD’s about a person’s identity and its clash fitting in with the world/fate. The series discusses
    (1) the challenge that creates (penguins – flightless birds awkward on land, graceful and “itself” only in one situation. The child broiler), and
    (2) the ways you can attempt to “fix” the clash (many of which – religion and secular thought – do not work).

    Anyhow, I’m exhausted and done ranting. Night!

  24. Suumire says:

    I think Shouma has to be the one up next for this coming episode. He’s left in the pit of this episode where absolutely everyone was involved in some way but him.

    I’m sorry, but while I agree with comments that he’s the most normal character since he isnt as extreme, I think always being left out of the action has to have given him a SERIOUS complex. Kanba always seems to just tell him to smile and be good while he takes all the damage, but he was never that character really. He acts goofy here and there but he’s also always the one worrying. And like Himari it’s got to hurt to do his best to do something as well but always get there late or be left out.

    I’m expecting him to emotionally lash out or break down, and soon. Especially in the wake of almost losing his siblings. Even the doctor preluded about how he missed out again on something important.

  25. wendeego says:

    @marktheknife: So much stuff there I don’t think I can respond to all of it. But, what you said about Sanetoshi got me thinking.

    For all he says that he and Momoka are connected, they really are very different, aren’t they? Momoka reaches in and literally sacrifices herself in order to save those she loves, at great personal cost. On the other hand, I don’t think that Sanetoshi is giving any of himself at all. He manipulates things from the sidelines, and gives people cures that can delay, but not change, fate. But to me it appears that rather than change fate for others himself (and burn away by doing so) he tricks others into changing fate for him. That’s probably why he needs people like Kanba, who perhaps does contain seeds of sacrifice in himself. Shouma might not be powerless either, since he saves Ringo from drowning in episode 4 at the risk of his own life.

    One of the crazy theories I’ve heard recently is that Momoka’s potential “attack” on the subway bombings split Kenzan’s son into two, creating the Takakura brothers. What if both of them once had Momoka’s ability, but by being split into two they lost the ability to use it properly? Kanba might be able to wield a semblance of it in keeping Himari alive, but Shouma might hold the rest without knowing it. Unless I’m barking up the wrong tree altogether?!?

    Finally, regarding Penguindrum, Utena and realism–I think you’re right in that the setting of Penguindrum is more grounded in the real world. Personally, though, I found Utena a bit more “grounded” than Penguindrum. Utena was very heavily entrenched in the shoujo genre, and so engendered a whole bunch of impressions and archetypes right off the bat. When the show later broke those archetypes to pieces, it had already given time for the viewer to be firmly established in the show’s world (even though most of it was, as Akio said, an illusion.)

    Penguindrum, on the other hand, doesn’t really fit into a genre. It vaguely fits into the kind of shoujo well that Utena exists in, but otherwise it borrows from all kinds of other places, and innovates a lot of its own stuff as well. I think that’s one of the reasons why so many people find it a little unapproachable–it’s so out there that it requires real dedication to bridge the gap and see the wonders on the other side. I think this might have to do with the fact that Utena came right after Sailor Moon, meaning that Ikuhara and Yojo Enokido and everyone else were still using mahou shoujo lenses. Penguindrum, on the other hand, came ten years afterwards, and is all the stranger for it.

    Actually, I wonder what difference not having Yoji Enokido on staff makes? Is that why Penguindrum’s a relatively colder show than Utena? How would Himari or Shouma have been handled if Enokido involved? Ikuhara picked up a lot of the slack (I think it’s pretty obvious by now that he played a huge role in the formation of Utena, since so many of its themes resurface in Penguindrum) but by how much?

  26. Cryptic says:

    I would read the comments but the giant wall of text are kind of intimidating ._.

  27. Guest says:

    I just want to drop in and throw out that you really should read the fantasy half of Hardboiled Wonderland if you’re going to read it at all. It is boring at first but is the thread that ties everything together by the end, and a lot of the fun is seeing how the two stories parallel each other.

    Murakami’s women are almost uniformly plot devices and hollow, though. I don’t think he’s a misogynist so much as he doesn’t use women as real people in his stories.

  28. kero says:

    @guest

    I think the msg is directed at me?

    “Murakami’s women are almost uniformly plot devices and hollow, though. I don’t think he’s a misogynist so much as he doesn’t use women as real people in his stories. ”

    In my opinion, the way you are describing how he uses women is what I would term as being misogynistic: the inability to see them as ‘real’ or being anything other that plot devices. Again I want to reiterate that I don’t think it’s full blown hate of women, but to consistently write women as non-entities does disconcert me.

    I’m not sure I’d go back to read hard-boiled. But I might read a few more of his books, I do want to check out the one about the underground attacks.

  29. marktheknife says:

    @wendeego: Yeah I wrote a shit-ton there, so no worries! Just went off on my excitement on thinking of a new theme.

    I agree that there is a huge moral difference between Momoka and Sanetoshi (barring some horrific plot twist). Furthemore, Sanetoshi’s exact role in the show and his exact plans are still a bit of a mystery. From where it stands though, it does seem like he planned the train bombings to “derail” fate, while Momoka sacrifices herself to mostly undo this damage (and thus push things back onto track). What this means thematically is kind of hard to say at this point.

    And re: Utena v. MPD’s genre “grounding,” this is actually really interesting to me as to its affect on anime watchers’ viewing habits.

    My basic question is, why do anime viewers even feel a need to squeeze MPD into a shoujo? For one thing, shoujo is a demographic label, and there’s something bizarre in how it has pretty wide applicability as a genre label (complete with its own tropes). Another is, why aren’t anime viewers more willing to view MPD as the genre mish-mash it is? Fight Club for instance was a decently-received comedy/drama/psychological thriller with extremely unusual plotting (non unlike MPD).

    This in turn has also made me think about a much broader question: how different communities use different methods to “form” genres, and how that affects the resulting art output (as, after all, genres create the base vocabulary most people use in understanding art). This would also be related to how certain genres are particularly gifted at exploring certain themes. Maybe once I finish getting this together in a grand essay I’ll post it.

  30. wendeego says:

    @marktheknife: One quibble–I think that Sanetoshi stated in episode 16 that what he (and KIBA by association?) is trying to do is put fate back on the right track. Right now my theory is that on the day of the 95 attacks, Momoka performed a track switch and drastically changed the world for better or for worse. Whether returning fate to its proper path is for better or for worse, though, is hard to say (although Sanetoshi’s resemblance to Akio, coupled with his actions so far, makes me think that he isn’t trustworthy.)

    I think that Mawaru Penguindrum is as polarizing as it is simply because it’s just so out there. Anything can happen, characters suffer grievous physical pain and continue to function, and so much is left obscure or hidden in background details for the viewer to parse. We’ve compared Penguindrum to Murakami’s works, but it strikes me that Murakami’s protagonists are generally a lot simpler/more sympathetic. The cast of Penguindrum, on the other hand, is almost uniformly emotionally fractured, and are often hiding their true feelings, to boot! It’s possible to find people to latch onto (though the novels might be more likable in how they give more insight into the characters) but the whole process is very difficult.

    I think it’s also worth saying that Fight Club is a lot tighter than Penguindrum, simply because it’s only two hours long while Penguindrum is about twelve. Penguindrum covers a lot more ground, true! But that amount of sustained, genre-busting weirdness is probably enough to turn people away who aren’t willing to do a lot of the work themselves. I mean, I like Penguindrum a lot, and think that it’s probably the best anime to air this year. But in terms of metaphor, cliffhangers, references to art and literature and willingness to spend time on seemingly inconsequential things (that turn out to be TOTALLY CONSEQUENTIAL) the show is borderline abusive to people who just want to know what the hell is going on.

    It’s a lot of fun too, though! I can just see why it might not be as much fun to everybody. Then on the other hand you have excellent shows that comment on tropes and genres like Madoka Magica, that half the fanbase reviles as overrated, explotative pap. So I guess you can’t win!

  31. Kim says:

    @Weendeego

    But a lot of people DO like Penguindrum. Of course not everyone likes it but that’s true for a lot of things. I don’t think the series is all that polarizing. No more than anything else that gains some popularity really. I do admit a surreal type of series like this is not going to be for everyone but well I can say that about a lot of things.

    As for Murakami’s characters VS Penguindrum’s. I would say the difference for me is I care more about the Penguindrium characters but I relate more to Murakami’s characters. Or to put it another way I feel more invested in Ikuhara’s characters but when I read Murakami I identify with that POV. Then again there is also a different medium at work here so it’s hard to do a direct comparison.

  32. Kim says:

    Oops sorry spelled your name wrong. I hate that you can’t edit on blogs. :(

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
@Anon, I actually liked that aspect. It made the history of the world feel real.
Anonymous1409027
It's compressible, as there are many episodes of buildup, but that's where so many of the interesting details and depth of planning become evident. Some of those episodes read like a history textbook though, so we'll see how the new adaptation handles them,
Anonymous1409027
*pleasantly
KTravlos
Tytania was ok.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the Amakusa Shiro reference in the fate review, I've seen a film about him from the 50s , theres also an old josei manga where the protagonist ends up becoming essentially regarded as him.
KTravlos
Hi Kaiser. Supposedly this is a re-imagining of the original story. Thus independent of the OVAs (old serieis). What exactly re-imagining means is something I and you do not know. We shall see. But it does mean that you do not need to watch the old series to enjoy this one. The OVA was definetly more expansive than the novels. So my guess is they will stick to the novels.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There's another anime, called Tytania based on his novels but I haven't seen that series.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As in condensable in the way nothing much is lost? I assume there are fillers in the original?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm indifferent to the aesthetics of the new version. What I'm hoping for is that it will be accessible to newcomers and that I'll be able to jump on to the old series where the new one leaves off. I've seen very little of the original and it was a long time ago, is there any way the story is condensable?
KTravlos
The fact that they stayed away from the disgusting new manga is great. I am not too keen on the CGI ships, but they also did not rankle. It looks like it will honor the spirit of the old series, and I cannot ask for more. I am a massive LOGH fan. And the new video out gives me hope of revisiting one of the greatest sci-fi/historical settings out there. I am happy.
AidanAK47
I hope they are using the old anime as a base and not the new Manga adaption. As that Manga adaption is seriously lacking.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I like that they blinged up the space battles which is good because those things could get tiresome. But I really hate the design of Yang Wenli. They made him look so much younger and bishi. I don't think i could take this guy seriously if he started one of Wenli's signature hypothesis.
Anonymous1408919
Thoughts on that new LOGH PV? My expectations were low, so I'm presently surprised. Obviously they made everybody pretty boys, and Mamoro Miyano is voicing Reinhard I believe. But art and animation actually looks pretty decent overall. It's a PV, and LOGH's best quality is it's story and characters, so we'll have to see if they remain faithful or not. But it's nice to see it get a visual overhaul.
AidanAK47
By the way this site has the first chapters but check the other versions to find them.
http://mangapark.me/manga/tsurezure-children-wakabayashi-toshiya
AidanAK47
@Mario, Indeed. It's also a pity that over half the couples in the manga were not featured. We only got a small taste of Patricia.
SuperMario
Or maybe I'll try to read the manga. The last time I checked it online, the site doesn't have its first few chapters
SuperMario
@Aidan: man, Tsurezure Children sure is sweet. Really sad to see it ends
AidanAK47
So that's the end of Tsurezure Children.
....I'm gonna need a second season. Now.
....NOW GODDAMNIT! NOW!
KTravlos
As I said I understand the criticisms to RE:Creator, but ultimately I enjoyed most of the show. It could had been better, and it is a missed chance. But I have seen worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I gave up halfway through, there weren't even enough action scenes and those that were didn't justify waiting around for.
AidanAK47
Could have at least delivered on the action but that was rendered pointless due to the majority of the cast turning good and Altair being a complete cheat character.
AidanAK47
It would have been really fun to see characters discuss their stories with their creators or indulge in what our world has to offer but they really glossed over that part.
AidanAK47
It really should have gone deeper into the whole meta aspect introducing anime characters to the real world. Like they did with Mamika's powers being ridiculously destructive when outside a kid friendly setting.
AidanAK47
@Puran, I at least like the message of the final episode. But as for the show itself it was just missed potential on a lot of levels. I wanted Anime Genre battle royale and instead got a secondhand Shirobako with a crap shounen anime attached.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have been forgiving of Anno as I've gotten older.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also just re-watched gunbuster, I'd previously dismissed the ova after a few episodes when I was a teenager, I'd found it too slow, didn't have that issue with the 90 minute version I just finished. I've never see the sequels.
Lenlo
Ill have to finish Creators... at some point
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've been dipping back into the Lupin franchise, Gold of babylon was particularly screwball, kind of ridiculous comedy caper/adventure thing you just have to run with....turns out it was directed by a live action filmaker I especially like who made bizzare noir films in the 60s.
Puran
So that explains why Meteora had so much air time in Re:Creators. It's her story....

I hated the ending and I disliked the anime overall.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was a genuine surprise to see that Assayas decided to make a film framed around hentai =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I loved how incoherent demonlover was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The criticisms I'll give wind river, is a slight inconsistent performance from Renner and that very awkwardly inserted flashback scene.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: on Wind River, I agree it's a well-executed case of the week drama, although there are some plot pregressions that I don't get (how did they find out about the man's corspe again?). About Demonlover, man, the film gives me a chill down my spine. Heartless. And a bit misogynist.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: as much as I loved Wong (yeah I too prefer him over Malick), sometimes I do think Western cinema give him too much praise that sadly overshadow other Asian directors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wong is important to me as a hong-kong filmaker, he offers something entirely different from the whole Woo/Lam Hong komg movies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On a more positive note Maggie Cheung did mention that she felt her early work with Wong was when she first truly became a proper actress.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I had no idea he had such a sad background.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*investigation drama
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that film also marked/ signified a rather sad period of Hongkong showbiz. Leslie Cheung badically lived the live of the protagonist and commited suicide in 1997. His girlfriend on screen, during the filming, was kidnaped, raped and taken topless picture. The damnest thing is that everyone knowed the culprit but did nothing, and in the press it was just deemed as "kipnapped and assaulted"
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wind river was a big surprise for me, just goes to show that with the right execution an ordinary police drama movie can be elevated higher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thats the interesting thing, tracking a directors career.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just binge watched the new dominion tank police ovas , admittedly these are kind of reptitive and extremely silly but its hard to hate on something so shamelessly fun that made me feel like a child again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: you said it there. DoBW is rather raw and unpolished but that's one of the reason why I am drawn to it more compare to his other works.
AidanAK47
In all honesty, it would be nice to finally see a continuation after fusion as all games after that have just been adding chapters in-between.
Vonter
Finally I wonder, if Metroid Prime 4 will definitely branch out of the main Metroid's continuity. It's curious how an interquel subseries is still going to add things in between the first and the second entries in the main franchise.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - I think is nice we can see both takes. Especially since neither one despite a few qualms are still very solid entries for this franchise. I just hope Metroid moves forward, as IMO this is the only game that really needed a facelift do to the heavy limitations of the gameboy. And I hope the secret gallery at the end is teasing how the producer plans to move the plot forward.
AidanAK47
I thought it might be like that but it's good to know they are at least on a close level. I didn't really want Samus Returns to replace AM2R as the "Definitive" version of Metroid 2. Mostly because a lot of love was put into AM2R andit came at a point when it felt Nintendo didn't give a crap about Metroid.
Vonter
Like Zero Mission there's something added to Samus Returns but I'll just leave it at that.
Vonter
I think both have strong points. Samus Returns have better boss battles, gameplay mechanics and more intense action pieces. AM2R IMO has more atmosphere, takes advantage of elements Nintendo don't even try like the Federation subplot, and the ending portion narratively has more heart in AM2R, while in Samus Returns it feels mostly like "the final level".
Vonter
I also did got lost a couple of times in Samus Returns and aside from the big water section in AM2R, the latter is more linear game.
Vonter
I think the controls in Samus Returns bring more to the table though. The 360 aiming makes for better ways to shoot enemies and some of the bosses take advantage of that. If it weren't for the 3DS giving hand cramps because you're holding L and R at several points it'll be completely the most ideal way to play.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - AM2R is very good, I think it has the advantage that because it uses sprites IMO backgrounds and enemies are more vibrant and easier to appreciate. The Federation soldiers are better executed in AM2R and that secret section with the ship is very eery.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, How does it stack up to AM2R? I bought it and am still waiting on it to be delivered but I have the feeling that AM2R would be the better game when comparing.
Vonter
I took me 12 hours to 100% and I've heard the best ending is beating it in less than 4 hours. I think unlike Zero Mission item percentage don't matter, it's mainly to unlock an art gallery.
Vonter
My main criticism is this being a 3DS game. Small enemies can be hard to see or appreciate. And I think the 3DS wasn't made for heavy action packed games like this or Smash Bros. I got the rubber from the circle pad come off in two occasions. Also unless there was something big in the background, several areas felt lacking in detail. Still Samus and the bosses look good.
Vonter
In terms of difficulty, the game has the enemies packing more damage than in other 2D Metroids. Is difficult in the sense than you can't tank damage as in other iterations, you have to be aware of enemy behavior and bosses mainly get easier do to familiarizing with their patterns, since I did die a lot each time I faced a new boss. And got used to kill them faster as I went along.
Vonter
Ok, so I beat Samus Returns. It's quite good. Unlike Fusion that had dialogue at midst the gameplay. Samus Returns only has a prologue of exposition and any cutscenes mainly accentuate the reactions of Samus confronting a new enemy. The level design is dense, despite having isolated areas like in Fusion and the original Samus Returns, each area is very mazelike.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: =< Awww I kind of like demonlover actually despite all its flaws, it had great sound design and had this cold, clinical, un-nerving mood to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Days of being wild does feel a bit un-realized/un-polished/rough compared to his other work definitely but its probably the rawest I've seen from him and that has its appeal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Haven't seen farewell my concubine come to think of it. Regarding the scifi element I felt I embraced it more further into the film when it started to intermingle more.
While I am more forgiving toward Malick's recent films than most, that decline in quality means I have to pick Wong.
KTravlos
by the way in RE:Creators we probably will be getting a future series focusing on the hunt for Magane :p Meteora probably playing the role of detective. I also bet her novel will be wordy and heavy in exposition :p
KTravlos
i.e his end game might had been a cross-species revolution against him anyway. We will see
KTravlos
In Bahamut Chris proves to not be totally evil, but he is totally crazy. That said I am seeing one of my hunches getting supported, the hunch was that his cruelty towards daemons was with the purpose of bringing them down enough that they would be willing to work with humans as euals (As they are in Jean's army) and thus via that create a more unified world. I
KTravlos
RE: Creators has come to its end. I know the problems everyone has with it, and while it failed to raise to the level of exceptional show, I loved it. As I said, it had been years since a show kept me so excited episode after episode. They blew it at some point, but ultimately for me this is an en-joyful show, and one I would happily binge watch in the future again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: question for you though, between these two directors, which one do you prefer: Wong Kar-Wai or Terrance Malick?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: if you enjoyed both 2046 and In the Mood for Love, by all mean check out Days of Being Wild. The trio forms a loose trilogy and Days of Being Wild was the first film that Wong began his unique unconventional style. It's one of my personal favorite of Wong and it's a chance for you to watch the late Leslie Cheung acted (you might watch him already in Farewell My Concubine)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: 2046 is indeed a passionate film, and one of his best looking film. He tried something different in 2046 too, experimented with scifi (one of the best part in the film for me)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's stritcly Wong Kar Wai's romance we're talking about, since I don't find the rest of Chinese take on romance that interesting. Romance or melodrama is one of his main theme throughout his career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was slightly overly long however.
I've also seen chungking express, in the mood for love and fallen angels. I think this Chinese take on romance is really clicking with me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also thought it was a very passionette film and I love how Kar-wong-wai uses the music in it. I also think its one of his best looking films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I had a look at that Chinese film 2046, very effectively melancholic take on fleeting relationships while also successfully being quite sensual while staying classy and without ever showing too much. Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung are two beautiful people =P
SuperMario
for those who still want to catch up with 18if, episode 11 has a huge recap, while wrapping up the show with a new overarching plot. Hopefully they don't pull another Matrix here
SuperWooper
It's shounen-y for sure. The competitions have been my least favorite parts of the show so far. If you're still watching, you might appreciate it more once the Tenpei Cup is over.
Anonymous1399692
Damn Ballroom looks so good. But I really can't enjoy it despite that I want to. It has too many of these typical shounen moments and plot points I can't stand.
Anonymous1399684
Omae wa mou shindeiru
Lenlo
Mononoke is actually what made me find Ayakashi. Also a good show.
SuperMario
Regarding Ayakashi, I only watched the Mononoke segment
SuperMario
"It was a long, long trip, and we're coming finally to the end of the journey. Thank you, Manoyama and Chupacabra. And thank you, 5 EURO" - Sandal-san.
Lenlo
Ayakashi was great for me Kaiser. I enjoyed my time with it
Vonter212
@AidanAK47 - The hard aspect has been commented in several reviews with bosses being able to easily kill you. (Although in my experience it might be just getting a pattern). In terms of length most 2D games can be beaten under 3 hours. This one seems to clock at at least 6 to 15 if you want to collect everything. Then again, we'll see in subsequent playthroughs.
AidanAK47
`@Vonter. It's out now but I don't remember seeing anyone claim it's the longest hardest entry 2D wise.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Going to watch new dominion tank police next and read violence action and Oddman 11.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It took me years to get round to it, but I finally watched Ayakashi and as expected like most anthologies, again its mixed, the first is a solid ghost story that improves after a weak start, but that third one with the cat spirit was great, really liked how experimental that looked.
Vonter
Soo a new Metroid comes out this week. It is said, it's the longest, hardest entry in regards to the 2D iterations. Still not as great as Super, and depending on your fanaticism it might or not be as good as Zero Mission.
SuperMario
But they didn't pull that scene off too well. It's just... unmemorable. In fact the whole show is very unremarkable. Now only 1 episode left I might as well finish it but I won't give it a full review
SuperMario
Koi to Uso has been disappointing so far. Episode 10 featured the sequence that i was looking forward the most in the manga: the former classmate tells the one sided crush of the main girl from her POV. For a romance that contrived and manipulated like this one, hearing this from the third person's perspective prove to be more powerful
Vonter
@HelghastKillzone - Good luck with that. I almost had my car's engine damaged since it has been raining heavily where I live. Had to ask for help the next day to pull it out of mud. Still not as bad as the other three cars that did get stuck in the water.
HelghastKillzone
Dealing with work and the total loss of my car really sucks at the moment so I'm quite tied up for this week.
KTravlos
I do agree to a point, but to be frank all the episodes of Princess Principal to date have been so solid I have a hard time deciding. Episode 5 though was still the best from a holistic point (action, direction, music etc) was the one introducing Chise
SuperMario
Agree. Dorothy has the biggest heart out of all the spy girls. Also "help" that her episodes are all melodramatic.
Amagi
This episode of PrinPrin showed again that Dorothy is the best character by far. Not just herself but her episodes as well are better written than the rest if you ask me.
KTravlos
It just hit me. The characters in Princess Principal may be very well working for IngSoc :p
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, in the seven chapters it's only really two of them that contain dark shocking content. Chapter three being the biggest one in that regard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read a comment where someone said subahibi shocked them more than saya no uta. While I haven't played it yet, I have seen some of a letsplay...it lleft me thinking....how many hours until this actually gets good/truly unhinged .
AidanAK47
After Reading SubaHibi, Made in Abyss's dark turn didn't shock me too much. Maybe I just got desensitised. I will have a review of SubaHibi hopefully up in a week though to clarify my feelings on it after just finishing it, It was interesting but disappointing.
KTravlos
well, well. Both Made in the Abyss and Virgin Soul do not hold back. Grim! RE:Creators is warping up. Comparing with these other shows I can fully appreciate the problems people have with it. But still I am glad I am sticking to the end. Altair's voice actor by the way did great.
AidanAK47
@Helghast, And Kings Field was the Demon Souls before Demon Souls came out.
KTravlos
having binge watched several of this season's shows I would say Princess Principal is the most rounded. Made in Abyss is good. Kakegurui and The Reflection as SuperMario said will depend on your tastes. There is also Shouko no Altair. You will like it if you liked Tanya Saga of Evil, or Legend of Galactic Heroes, or Arslan Senki or manga like Vinland Saga, Gunka no Baltzar, and especially Historie
Anonymous1385641
Jesus...me watching this weeks Made in Abyss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogzsWhZcmM
HelghastKillzone
So... Demon Souls was the Dark Souls before Dark Souls came out.
SuperMario
@anon1385426: the safest bets aside from Made in Abyss are Welcome to the Ballroom and Princess Principal. Kakegurui and the Refection are for more acqurired taste
Anonymous1385426
Aside from Made in Abyss, what's the best anime this season?
Lenlo
@KT, the pacing and the framerate early on are my two biggest issues. Later on the story starts to get abit more engaging, and they start doin things I didnt expect, but the pacing is still there. Some akward pauses.
Lenlo
Look, Berserk and Dark Souls are both amazing. But I only have 3 Dark Souls games, and 38 Berserk volumes. Im clearly biased
KTravlos
I sat down and watched the first 4 episodes of The Reflection. It is an interesting attempt, and I can see the people making it having fun doing so. But I did notice a pacing issue. For some reason the episodes felt like they dragged a bit too long.
AidanAK47
Dark Souls is the Berserk of Video Games.
Amagi
Dark Souls really went all Berserk if you ask me
AidanAK47
I am not one for putting down law but can we never ever compare anything to Dark Souls ever again? Cause it's actually become really tiresome how everything is the dark souls of something.
Lenlo
No other sentence has made me want to watch Made in Abyss more
HelghastKillzone
I guess we're finally at the point where Made in Abyss goes all Dark Souls/Bloodborne.
Amagi
Apo's Jack the Ripper had at least a nice idea behind it, it's just the clothes that are a bad choice. But there are just too many lolis for the sake of fanservice in that game. I accept it if there is at least a reason for this but it's usually just random.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here. I was never a fan of genderbendings and turning historical people into lolis. The first one I can accept with people like Arthuria because it added a lot to her character, but most of them are just plain and generic. I just see no reason why pirates, grown up men or Blavatsky would ever appear as little girls. Especially since popular beliefs should influence their appearance.
SuperMario
On Altair, one commenter did an excellent job of poiting out the appeal of that show; and frankly the show is wearing on me now.
SuperMario
@Travlos: I'm glad you enjoy Princess Principal. I'm quite surprised myself that in the latter half the show slowed its pace down which mean the focus is switched from action to more characters interactions; which I greatly enjoy
KTravlos
Well I binge watched Princess Principal. That is a very good show. I was surprised. Good animation, good music, the art is good, hell I even did not mind the protagonist art. But what I really like is the stories. All the episode were pretty solid and interesting.
AidanAK47
Just won a fight by the skin of my teeth thanks to my Lancer, Cu Chulainn. You the man Cu!
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Been playing Grand Order myself. It's rather fun. There are some good original character in it but I notice with Quantity certain figures designs were pretty terrible. I thought Assassins of black was the worst but some Grand Order servents manage to top it in terrible. Why all the bikini's?
Amagi
Fate/GO has quite some interesting original characters there. Wish we'd see them in some actual manga or anime series with more backstory someday. - I also like that we finally have an overpowered, interesting and competent Hassan with King Hassan for once. His design is metal AF too.
KTravlos
Binge watched Altair. The pacing of the show is a problem, but in general the raw material is good. Altair is sympathetic, and the world is interesting. But I do feel this is the kind of show that would had gained by a Monster or LOGH type treatment. Also, man it is scary how accurate they got some of the traits of Greeks (Phoenicians in the show). I am a Greek, I should know! :p
KTravlos
forgot to mention. I saw the 91 Days special. Three side stories that give some depth to the events in the main anime, but nothing that goes beyond it's end. Still they were in general ok to good.
SuperWooper
It's got Jude Law playing "this kind of huge robot butler called Charles, who is also a rocket ship." What could possibly go wrong?
AidanAK47
Anime with Jaden Smith? Um..I don't know about this.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: one of the good thing about SoL shows like Centaur and even 18if is that their episodes are self-contained, so you can just jump right in to watch the good ones and ignore the rest
SuperMario
I just love Chise's presence so I might enjoy the last episode more than anyone else. But yeah I'm quite satisfied with Princess Principal right now
AidanAK47
Actually I am quite surprised Princess Principal hasn't gone off the rails yet. Might even turn out to be a fun show in the end. If the man can make it to the finish line without a misstep.
AidanAK47
Hey I am having fun with my Shows. Made in Abyss is still quite excellent and Fate/Apoc is picking up. Even started playing Fate/Grand Order.
Lenlo
Man, sounds like I was the only one to have a good week with their show. Reflection really stepped it up this week in pretty much every category. Not sure it will last, but hey. Ill take one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm so disappointed in 18...if. Perfect opportunity to capitalize on something with a dreamlike feel to it and be creative only it ends up getting held back.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I see Vonter and Mario are seducing me into watching Centaur.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*can't
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can'y see myself giving re creators a second chance, and from skimming these conversations, why should the show only get going at the end? It just sounds like too little too late.
AidanAK47
Honestly that's what Re:Creators biggest issue is. It builds up these great interesting idea's and then refuses to capitalize on them.
AidanAK47
Then it would be a battle to win over the audience and he who entertains them the most would get the most power. Just think of how many interesting ways that would take the fight. Like Altair could lose power and have to win over the crowd with her backstory and theatrics. A hero could purposefully get beaten to hell just so they can get a powerup from saying a boastful speech about kicking ass.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Exactly. Now there is an interesting fighting element. Imagine if both Altair and the heroes had to fight with the limitation of keeping the audience entertained. Altair couldn't pull out overpowered nonsense because the audience wouldn't approve and her power would drop. Same goes for the heroes.
Anonymous1378112
On the other hand I am not a fan of this whole final arc. It's just not believable to me to gather such a big audience who will do nothing but watch and accept everything you show them. Not to mention that the show is technically live acting to them. Considering how much anime fanbases already hate the DN movie and stuff I doubt many would sit there and accept that
Anonymous1378112
@Aidan: This made me pretty angry. like, they wasted a ton of screentime with these boring info dumps and now they're just irrelevant and the enemy just fucks over it
AidanAK47
Actually the last development was actually a screw the rules moment as well. So the only way to beat Altair is to just chuck aside the rules established with the last 20 episodes.
AidanAK47
You don't need to give Altair a creator in order to to limit her. You just need her to obey the rules the entire series has spent time setting up. Altairs actions are just handwaved with "Screw the rules! I am a OC" audence acceptance doesn't seem to make a difference.
AidanAK47
@KTravlos, The creators have incredibly limited power as while they can introduce anything, it won't be effective unless the audience approves of it. Altair can pull whatever she wants without limit. If anything I don't understand why the audence isn't shouting for her to get nerfed seeing as some random indie character is wrecking fan favourite characters.
Vonter212
@SuperMario - Centaur Worries is the equivalent of Every Flavour Beans. You don't know what you're gonna get, bad, good, cringe, cool, deep, superficial, etc. While the gore isn't that graphic, it is still violent for this kind of show and the alien part has some disturbing body horror, for this show. The shock is mainly because of how light hearted everything else is.
SuperMario
I just watched Centaur, it was heavy as hell, but really poetic in tying these 2 half episodes together. God, it's excellent. And I don't mid the show's constant tonal shifts at all
KTravlos
@Aidan I have to disagree with you. Altair's overpowering does not bother me too much. a) If you think about it, it is their only choice, as creators also have immense power. There only other option would be to give Altair her own Creator, but that would turn this to just a Fate copy. So I am ok with what they have done. b) they do explain it world-wise so it does not come out of the blue
KTravlos
A nice overview of the alternative history genre, but more importantly the work of Kawaguchi http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/the-mike-toole-show/2017-09-04/.120893
SuperMario
@Vonter: the manga has gore and alien? Really? Now that's interesting
SuperMario
... genre often does. For me its unfocusness works for its benefit. We don't know for sure what we gets each time and that's the main reason I still looking forwards to it every week
SuperMario
@Vonter: I haven't caught up with Centaur's this week but I heard it tackles Holocaust so I'm all in. It's not something cute girl
Vonter
Wow, Centaur Worries, took some really heavy themes this episode. The softy in me, found them powerful, but the cynic in me thinks it might have been a touch manipulative, since this show has interesting ideas, but lacks focus. One episode is cute, another progressive, another ecchi, and another the holocaust. Makes me wonder if they'll show the gore and the aliens from the manga.
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