Posted by psgels on 24 November 2011 with categories: Persona 4 The Animation



… just get on with it already!

Seriously, the pacing of this series is terrible. We’re already struggling to put a 80-hour game into just 26 episodes, and here this episode decides to go and waste time on nothing but teenaged antics and even throws the girls into swimsuits. I mean heck: if you’re going to waste time, at least do it in an interesting way. Why does everything have to be teenaged antics that we’ve seen hundreds of times before? Seriously people, jokes about how girls are bad cooks have been done countless of times before. It’s not funny anymore.

One of the two sole salvations of this episode was that finally Seiji Kishi put his act together and at least delivered a bunch of jokes that actually made me laugh. About three times near the end of the episode. That in no way makes up for the obnoxious rest of this episode. So in the end, the only thing that I again can praise is the camera guy here. This show looks unique and the camera angles show it.

Look, for my preview of the upcoming winter season, I complained relatively little about how there’s nothing but teenagers there. This is because there have been plenty of series about teenagers that were really good. The thing however, is that these series are great for a reason. Just stuffing in random teenaged antics and just hoping that it’ll work somehow… that just doesn’t work.

Because this show won the contest, I’m stuck with it at least until the end of the year, but this has been the worst show that you ever forced me to blog. Even including Kimi ni Todoke. At least that show was well acted.
Rating: – (Disappointing)

30 Responses

  1. Firechick says:

    I don’t think anyone will hold it against you if you drop it. If you don’t like it, then you don’t like it. You can drop it if you want. So what if people voted for it? Everyone has their likes and dislikes, and we should respect them. I mean, I wouldn’t like having to watch something I don’t like.

  2. terrence says:

    Did you see how Yu has become as homophobic as Yosuke, he basically recounted his promise to accept Kanji by kicking him out of the tent, and it’s played for laughs! I knew this episode would be unfortunate, though I was not expecting the part between Kanji and Hanako. I do not see how there could be a character like Yosuke, he forces the girls to get naked, basically. Can you imagine anoybody trying to do that here in the US? He’d be expelled! Is this male privelege? Is this normal behavior for Japanese boys? Cause if it is, then it’s little wonder why Japan’s gender gap is twice below the world average!

  3. terrence says:

    I only said “Normal” cause I heard something about Yosuke being a “typical teenage boy” but none of the other teenage boys in this series acts like this! It can’t just be a problem of Japanese sexism, it’s just that Yosuke’s character is fundamentally stupid. why does he have to be a main character?

  4. mark says:

    No, it’s just that Yosuke is a fundamentally bad character. None of the other teenage boys in this series acts like he does (forcing the girls into skimpy clothing),etc. Why is a guy with such male privilege a main character?

  5. mark says:

    If the girls are such bad cooks, then why didn’t Yu do it instead? Did the boys just expect the girls to do all the cooking and serve them? Cause that really rubs me the wrong way! I though the group was supposed to make dinner! Is this the 1950s?

  6. DmonHiro says:

    This is exactly what happened in the game. Seriously, it’s almost copy/pasted. Never though I’d ever see something that stick to the source too much.

  7. psgels psgels says:

    Good lord, this all was in the game? How hard must it have been to sit through all this?

  8. Tsuki says:

    While this episode was practically copy-pasted from the game, the huge difference between the two is that the game actually uses a large amount of time focusing on the murder-mystery aspects to the story.

    The anime… well, as you can tell, it loves to focus on exclusively the comedy. The mystery is practically an afterthought.

  9. Shippu says:

    Actually, not all of this was in the game. The episode have added some scenes.As exemple, the entire middle part was anime original.

    In a way,I think it’s funny how many people seems to dislike this episode or the anime on this blog. And on some other blog people actually enjoy it. I guess either people love it or hate it.

  10. Dalx says:

    the game has better pacing, VA and acting. Besides the character development from the game wasn’t as “here’s your chapter, it ended? oh dissapear or become flat again”, it interwinded with gameplay and short arcs of rest from the crime (never tought they would give a complete chapter to this, in the game was some sort of skit).

    For example, the Main characters even if they got their persona issues resolved where still haunted by their weakness and you had to keep using time to help them (like the Ai chapter). These things had requeriments in the “stats” of the eye-catch and was divided in 10 short “chapters”.

    For the ones complaining about Yosuke male privileges, the girls will get revenge, trust me.

    You should think about dropping it. You’re just forcing yourself and you wouldn’t be able to write anything but frustration.

  11. YuxYukiko says:

    wow… just wow. delete this entry already.
    this is widely considered the best episode in the anime so far.
    you have no idea of what you’re talking about.

  12. HENRCAST says:

    One problem that I consistently feel about game adaptations is how over-the-top they make characters that were previously relatively down to earth in the original games. Valkyria Chronicles is a HUGE example of this. They managed to turn the interesting and subtle acting of the game into horrible anime cliches, by making the character’s defining traits a lot stronger than normal. Sure, Welkin was naive in the game, but the anime turned him into a complete moron. The same goes for Alicia, Selvaria etc. P4 is doing exactly the same. Even the Tales of Symphonia OVA, a pretty decent adaptation, does the same.

  13. importantnobody says:

    I love this episode, to me it was fun to watch.

    But, I do agree that you should drop it if you hate it that much.

  14. watashinoone says:

    The game was exactly like this. If it’s not clear at this point, the game was more cheesy than serious(though it’s guaranteed to be serious by the end). Just warning you ahead of time, we’re getting a cultural festival episode, a field trip episode, etc. It’s a school life game, so you should kinda expect that. Also, our investigation crew aren’t exactly the brightest bulbs, so the mystery will take a while.

    The reason the anime skips weeks? It’s because in the game, you would normally spend the month trying to save the person before the next rainy day, while the anime saves the person within the first day. The month itself was just dungeon crawling, or hanging out with people(social linking). Just felt like clarifying since you seem to be approaching this from the wrong angle.

  15. Addictd says:

    When Yu and Yosuke were kicked off the cliff, and Yu’s face was completely blank, I burst out laughing. Best joke so far in this show. Honestly, I think this thing is for fans only, because there’s no way anyone who wasn’t played/watched the game will understand what made it so awesome. It’s just one of those stories that have to be told a certain way, or they don’t sound good.

  16. Suzushina Yuriko says:

    I think the best part of the Persona 4 series is the solving of the mysteries, and the anime mainly makes it look like an afterthought. The middle part was completely anime original and combined Naoki’s Social Link and an investigation meeting with the school camping trip for some reason.

    What I really hate about this adaptation is that they made Yuu into a bit of a jerk. He’s supposed to be the calm and understanding leader who accepts everyone for who they are. In the game, he’s neutral in the tent and Yosuke is the one who is mainly uncomfortable with Kanji (and they cut out the animal cracker conversation, which is NOT COOL). In the anime, he’s a homophobe like Yosuke (who is a little more obnoxious here as well) who completely kicks Kanji out of the tent. That is not cool, and Seiji Kishi just lost points from me for that. That’s not the protagonist I wanted to see.

    Also, am I the only one who thinks that the anime effects (like anger veins and sweatdrops) look really out of place here? It’s weird, since this is an actual anime, but the game made it look natural somehow.

    I’m glad you’re still blogging this, though. To quote Scamp, “IT GETS BETTER LATER, I SWEAR!”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsOIo50MBZc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOtVNdfYYuE

  17. urgay says:

    wow this blog is pretty gay

  18. Acaract says:

    Well I wouldn’t think that they really put the mystery as an afterthought but as the game went, it was like:
    April – October = Little plot, Social link, Events blah blah blah blah blah
    November onwards = PLOT PLOT PLOT PLOT PLOT

    It’s almost the same for Persona 3 as well anyway.
    I guess you’ll have to adapt to such a mentality that you can expect less at the start and more at the end.

    Well to each his own, if you are still interested in this series then go on blogging. Otherwise just drop it since you’ll just be constantly bashing it to no end.

  19. Snowolf says:

    I agree with Firechick; this is YOUR blog so you should do really what you choose to do! The whole point of the voting system (I personally felt) was for everyone to mutually agree on what they liked; obviously you’re not enjoying it, and it’s your reviews we’re looking forward to, and as we all know, bias is part of a review and it can sometimes be unpleasant and inhibit the pleasure of reading the review in the first place; you shouldn’t review something you don’t like psgels! If you hate it, go ahead and drop it- I am pretty darn sure that the majority of us won’t hold anything against you (hell, I dropped it five episodes ago). The problem with this show is that it’s audience is only intended at the people who have played the game- it is literally a scene by scene adaptation of the game. It’s because of this that it actually lacks a coherent well paced plot. That’s all. Persona 4’s story is actually not bad, but the execution of this show is horrible. :(

  20. Mae says:

    i feel really bad for voting for persona 4 now T.T
    seriously though, you should drop it if you really want. ^^

  21. justsomeguy says:

    Psgels, regardless of what people voted if you are not enjoying this show then you should drop it. You are approaching this show from the wrong POV; you’re expecting a dramatic mystery-heavy series when the game and this very faithful adaptation are not until near the end. You have to keep in mind that most of that 80 hours of game is spent on grinding in dungeons, not plot. Most of the actual storyline between the murders at the beginning and the events beginning in November is light-hearted humor.

  22. Anca says:

    I’ll just jump on the ‘drop it’ bandwagon. Maybe in the future you should do a poll after the first episode already aired?

    When this happened in the game, we had already spent some 30 (or more?) hours with the characters. That’s a lot of time to grow familiar and fond of them, and a lot of the charm of this depended on what you observed in Ao no Exorcist – just wanting to watch the cast do random stuff. What’s more, it’s one of the light-hearted points of a serious plot.

    The game was awesome. It could have been awesome as an anime too, because the plot is straightforward and the events are already anime-esque. The ‘feel’ of the Persona games is like Trinity Soul. Yet something went wrong in the production process and this… mess resulted.

    You just wait, because we still have a school festival, a normal festival (with kimonos et all), a field trip and an onsen scene waiting – that they’ll also probably devote far too much time to.

  23. mango says:

    I’d be happier if you dropped it as well. You should take a poll asking if it’s okay for you to drop it if you don’t just want to drop it out of nowhere…

  24. mark says:

    Could you imagine if you or your friend was kicked out like Kanji was? That tent scene was one of the most hurtful scenes. It also seriously cheapens Kanji’s emotional recovery. Yu breaks an important promise just for the sake of a joke?

  25. nodbgp says:

    Well you already dropped it, and I think you did the right thing the only reason I’m still watching it is because I played the game and liked it, but I agree that as stand alone entertainment it sucks.

    Anyways, seriously Mark, you will be talking about the tent thing how many times, are you a guy? Because really that tent thing is exactly how guys interact, you don’t need to say I love you and I’m sorry each time you make fun of one of your friends, because oh well they are your friends not your girlfriends so just stop with these pathetic comments and get over it. And don’t get me started on the bikini things and sexist stuff, by chris sake.

  26. Mimiko ♥ says:

    If you don’t have the heart to continue to blog a show you don’t like, drop it. It just as much hard for people to read a blog that is so forceful -.-

    I’m sorry to hear that you don’t like the anime. The story will be focus more once they manage to introduce every main characters (which there is only one left) but the things you complains will continue in the anime. So don’t force yourself on it any more. We know you’ve suffered enough ^-^’

  27. Badesh says:

    Hehe, i think it’s funny to read your blogs about persona. I’ve played it and i enjoy the anime quite a lot but i can guess now how it is if you’re completely new to the story.

    I miss the mistery as well. But i didn’t finish the game and coudn’t sit through hours of grinding just to see the end so this is the perfect chance for me to see how it turns out.

  28. lord genome says:

    This ain’t mine, but I found some guy’s opinion on a forum, it’s a good read:

    “Mind you, let me be blunt here: I fucking LOVE Persona 4. So much I commissioned our very own Matt Speroni to draw me high-quality P4 fanart. So much that Chie Satonaka is basically my soulmate. So much that I’ve played the game through three times; once playing the main character as if he was myself, then going for a ‘perfect’ playthrough, then playing the game a third freaking time because I enjoyed it so much that I HAD to play it again. Even achieving perfection already was insufficient to persuade me.

    I love Persona 4 and I’m getting that out of the way in advance because you don’t need to accuse me of hating P4 just because I hated the last two episodes. The fact that I love Persona 4 so damn much is basically the reason why these last episodes hurt so hard. It was like getting sucker-punched by your best friend, learning that your father betrayed you or getting dumped by the love of your life. P4′s like my favorite roleplaying game of the last five or six years, if not the last decade. Getting curb-stomped like this was unexpected.

    I even liked the first six episodes of the P4 anime. No, really! They were good!

    So let’s establish why I personally hated recent P4 Anime developments:

    * I kind of expected, and in fact would have encouraged, Yosuke to be a homophobic jerk because, let’s face it, he’s a homophobic jerk. He’s a lovable character, but in the game the fact that he is a homophobic jerk is clearly portrayed as a character flaw. The reactions of other characters to Yosuke’s behavior throughout the game clearly establishes that Yosuke is a tad immature and he blurts out stupid things and he often receives a legitimate comeuppance for his bursts of douchebaggery.

    That’s kind of the point with Yosuke: he’s a decent human being who nonetheless is a bit of an ass. And while the Protag basically scores with every woman in the city because he’s a nice, compassionate guy who cares about his friends and acts respectfully, Yosuke deliberately contrasts with the Protag and shows just how and why the Protag just might be so ‘successful’ in his dating life and why he and not Yosuke is the leader of the Investigation Team. With men like Yosuke as ‘competition,’ all Protag has to do is not be a chauvinistic, homophobic douche with the maturity of a third grader!

    So, the way I thought Episode Seven should have gone was the way my game’s playthrough essentially went: Yosuke says stupid homophobic shit, the Main Character and the girls scold Yosuke for being so self-centered when Kanji’s life is at risk, the Protag acts like the supportive, all-around awesome person he is (and the awesome person that the game and the anime portray him as and that the other characters believe him to be; that is important), Kanji accepts his shadow, everyone wins!

    So it was exceptionally disappointing when the Protag decided to join the Homophobia Train. And not just with one or two “You feel mild trepidation entering this dungeon with the wacky sauna theme…” messages that the game gave. Merely feeling fear upon entering a dungeon with shadows trying to kill you, even if that fear is exacerbated somewhat by some irrational and brazenly idiotic “What if the shadows are gay and try to rape me?” thought is one thing, but it’s what the Protag actually says when he opens his mouth that differentiates the game’s Protagonist from the anime’s douche.

    Game Protag hesitates but he never once indicates that he’s willing to abandon the mission outright (and effectively allow Kanji to quite possibly die due to his non-intervention) because he’s afraid of gay people. And while I don’t have the script of Episode Seven in front of me, some of the lines from Protag’s mouth were just disgustingly homophobic. It wasn’t ‘snarky,’ it was homophobic. There is a difference.

    But that pales in comparison to Protag’s single worst line (said in Episode Eight, we’ll get there,) and it also pales in comparison to…

    * The Protag and Yosuke expressing willingness, at a moment’s notice, to attack and attempt to kill Kanji’s shadow just because Kanji’s Shadow makes them feel uncomfortable because Kanji’s Shadow is totally gay and hitting on them.

    Let’s get a few things straight:
    At this stage of the storyline, Protag and Yosuke have seen and fought other shadow versions of characters before. They know that shadow versions of characters are absolutely harmless in their original state and remain harmless until the person in question denies them, at which point the shadows transform into a violent version that does in fact start to destroy things.

    …So, Yosuke and Protag know that the shadow must be ‘defeated’ by Kanji accepting Shadow Kanji as himself. Given that the shadows have never been permanently ‘defeated’ by the cast by any other means, attacking the pre-transformation form of Kanji’s shadow is counter-productive at best and could well end up in an outcome of Kanji’s death at worst.

    Remember, the strategy employed by the P4 characters at this point of the game was to attempt to convince the affected character to accept their shadow before the denial happened, therefore avoiding a fight outright. I’m reasonably certain that at no point in the game did the P4 cast attack the pre-transformation version of a Shadow, particularly when this version of the shadow did nothing to merit their anger except be gay.

    And let’s not forget that the only fault or foible of pre-transformation Shadow Kanji was that he was too gay for Yosuke and Protag to apparently handle. Shadow Kanji did not constitute a physical threat to the Persona 4 cast at this juncture. He did not physically attack them. He did not threaten to hurt or kill them.

    …He just was gay.
    And being gay, in and of itself, was totally enough to send Yosuke and Protag into a primordial rage.

    But even if we could stop there, I might have been okay with the episode. I mean, sure, lots of (heterosexual, privileged) high school guys who are otherwise decent people have no idea whatsoever how to handle the thought that another guy might think they’re smexy. Back in high school, I was one of those guys myself! And maybe there’s a message here that the P4 Anime would attempt to convey, like perhaps the Protag who was a perfectly compassionate, likable dude in the game would be portrayed very differently, as a flawed boy with significant moral shortcomings, in the anime.

    But then…

    * Chie and Yukiko join in and attack a pre-transformation version of Shadow Kanji who represents no physical threat to them just because he’s gay.

    I guess Chie sort of attempted an excuse of “It’s not because he’s gay, it’s because I’m impulsive and really annoyed at his monologue and I want to freeze things!” But it was particularly surprising (and disappointing) to see Yukiko Amagi, who is basically presented as a sweet, likable girl who’s thoughtful and considerate and not excessively prone to initiate violence suddenly decide that she too has had enough of Shadow Kanji.

    …because Shadow Kanji is ‘acting gay.’

    Shadow Chie was acting pretty sinister; why didn’t Yosuke and Protag beat the crap out of her when she talked her trash, before Chie’s denial and Shadow Chie’s transformation into Dominatrix Banana-Chick? Actually, that’s just the thing; Shadow Chie’s pre-transformation dialogue was arguably far more threatening and antagonistic than Shadow Kanji’s, because really, all Shadow Kanji does is flirt shamelessly and talk about how much he enjoys what constitutes his definition of a ‘good time.’

    The answer that the Anime posits to us is quite simple: Shadow Kanji was gay, and open about being gay, and willing to flirt openly and present his sexuality in a forthcoming manner around others, and that alone merited wanton violence against him. From everyone, male or female, ‘jerks’ and ‘compassionate heroes’ alike. The Protag is the chosen one, a symbol of tolerance, progression, heroism, the greatest hope the town of Inaba has, beloved by every woman, respected by man, and he totally wants you to know you better not flirt with him if you have a penis or he will fuck your shit. Chie and Yukiko weren’t even a position to feel personally threatened by Shadow Kanji’s idle flirtations and they still were so riled by Kanji’s **gayness** that physical violence was the preferred solution! Their only justification was one of brazen homophobia, unless you want to argue that they were ‘afraid’ they’d otherwise be subjected to something so torturous as ‘watching this guy talk about how much he enjoys hot saunas with other guys.’

    * Did I mention that all of this is occurring in the context of a moment when Kanji’s life is personally threatened? The kids don’t have the slightest clue of the intricate nature of the TV world they’re exploring; all they know is that they have a strict timetable to save Kanji in or he dies, and he needs to accept his Shadow or he’s at risk.
    …Oooh, I know! Let’s antagonize Kanji’s Shadow before it transforms and give Kanji more reasons to want to deny his affiliation with said Shadow because we literally care more about not having to listen to gay people flirt with us or our guy friends, than we value Kanji’s life!

    * Oh, it’s okay, because we all know that deep down inside Protag’s a really, truly nice guy who cares about Kanji and respects their friendship, he just likes to be ‘snarky’ (manifesting his snark in the form of wanton attacks in this particular instance, I suppose) to his buddies, right?

    Well, Episode Eight puts rest to any thought of that notion!
    Episode Eight takes place after the Protag and his buddies have presumably ‘accepted’ Kanji.
    …Only they’ve only accepted Kanji at day. At night, it’s another matter entirely!

    Protag’s line here is absolutely ludicrous to defend precisely because Yosuke acts far worse around women and the Protag does not call Yosuke out on it. Hell, in the very same episode, Yosuke brazenly advocates that Chie and Yukiko sleep in an integrated manner with he and Protag — he is advocating a sexually predatory outcome in a tent in the exact same manner that he and Protag accused Kanji of doing! And yet the Protag and the women will tolerate this, because it’s typical heterosexual male chauvinistic bullshittery.

    …And that’s probably actually the biggest problem about all of this. It isn’t just the homophobia, although the homophobia is very overt and very despicable and it very openly refutes the P4 game’s flawed yet positive approach of encouraging tolerance and diversity in friendships.

    …It’s that the characters respond so harshly to actions taken by ‘homosexual’ characters while tolerating and in fact encouraging the very same behavior from their heterosexual counterparts!
    Yosuke forcing Yukiko and Chie to wear swimsuits despite their discomfort at the notion is funny and typical guy hijinks, and Yosuke can be excused of that! Even Chie and Yukiko don’t aggressively call Yosuke out for being creepy. When Yosuke says “Hey Yukiko and Chie, why not sleep alongside us tonight?” The girls do not respond by badgering Yosuke for threatening to take their ‘chastity.

    So the message here is plain: Girls just have to tolerate this from heterosexual guys! Heterosexual guys can and will act like perverts who want to steal your sexual purity against your will and force you to dress up in scanty swimsuits, but you should just swallow your criticism and choose to remain his friend and accept the behavior as ‘typical.’ Even the Protag, by refusing to aggressively scold Yosuke when Yosuke acts legitimately creepy as fuck in drooling over Chie or Yukiko, is passively enabling Yosuke as his ‘friend’ to engage in this skeevy shit.

    …But when Kanji barely acts half as predatory as Yosuke and is just sitting silently in the middle of the guy’s tent, both Yosuke and Protag feel that their chastity is in serious danger! Not even because Kanji is gay and because Kanji, like Yosuke to the girls, has expressed a serious sexual interest in the Protag or Yosuke. The ‘real’ (non-Shadow) Kanji hasn’t flirted with Protag or Yosuke at all! They don’t even really definitively know whether Kanji is actually gay! And there’s far less evidence that Kanji is remotely interested in pursuing a relationship, and he’s certainly not forcing the Protag or Yosuke to waltz around in swimsuits for his personal enjoyment.

    …The anime says this: The mere possibility that your guy friend might be gay, even if he is utterly disinterested in you, is more threatening than a heterosexual guy’s overt and depraved sexual interest in women. There’s only reason why this could be: Because mere gayness in and of itself is a ‘threat!’

    * And the game sort of was imperfect too, but the crucial difference was, the game at least gave you incentives to roleplay the Protag as a decent human being who did not in fact support this worldview. Yosuke may have been condemned to his childish immaturity, but the Protag received rewards in the form of boosts to his social links with Chie and Yukiko by treating them respectfully during the swimsuit scene, and the Protag received rewards in the form of boosts to his social link with Kanji by treating Kanji compassionately, like a true friend, supporting Kanji’s presence in the tent, refuting privilege and refusing to indulge in homophobia. Even if you could choose to roleplay the Protag as a jerk, doing so felt out of character (how could the Protag acquire the sincere respect of Kanji and the women he interacts with regularly if he was a chauvinistic homophobe?)

    Choosing the ‘I-am-a-decent-human-being’ options subsequently flow naturally. Yukiko and Chie and Naoto and Kanji and Nanako and Dojima repeatedly reinforce the notion that Protag is a great guy; and more often than not, choosing the ‘snarky’ options results in penalties to your P4 gameplay experience in the form of stalling social links. An ideal playthrough requires you to consider your friends’ feelings and act respectfully and not be intolerant.

    But P4: The Anime is tying to have its cake and eat it, too; it’s simultaneously attempting to give you a snarky Protag who repeatedly chooses the “hysterical” (note that I don’t think they’re often very funny) dialogue options, yet also gives you a Protag who, by the Anime’s own admission, has above-average Stats in all fields of personal growth by Episode Eight and who’s Maxing social links with relative ease. The dynamic of P4 that once punished a homophobic, chauvinistic, asshole of a player is gone, and instead there’s a huge fundamental disconnect: The anime characters are still acting like Protag is the sweetest, coolest, most benevolent, likable, tolerant human being they know, utterly demanding their fealty and accruing their affections, but the Protag is increasingly acting just as big a jerk as Yosuke is.

    The plentiful evidence that the game provided you that the Protag was a decent person in watching his social links gradually accrue over extended periods of time and effort is gone; what’s left is a homophobic jokester who tolerates Yosuke’s chauvinism and who’s petty and insecure and yet still beloved. At this point, the Protag is in desperate need of the same kind of abuse given to Yosuke on a regular basis. But even when Yukiko and Chie dared toss the Protag into the river with Yosuke, it’s still heavily implied that they’re totally crushing on him, just as it’s still heavily implied that Kanji thinks the Protag is an incredible friend (except, well, not at night, lest his chastity be threatened) and just as Naoki can apparently be swayed from hating the Protag and Yosuke to totally being good bros in the course of a single goddamn conversation.

    …So it’s not just the homophobia that bothers me, although it’s bothersome enough. It’s that the homophobia is in plain contradiction of the halo the P4 anime team is still painting around the Protag, and that in painting that angelic halo around the Protag, the animators are saying this: The Protag is an ideal high school student; all you high school students watching the P4 Anime should want to be just like him, because he’s going to get all the girls and earn the respect of all the guys and he’s a role model. Oh, and by the way, he totally hates gay people, and you should, too. They make him feel awkward and uncomfortable and fearful for his chastity just in the mere act of being themselves. And, it is totally acceptable for heterosexual men to treat their gay friends with this degree of innate suspicion. (By the way, despite the fact that gay people can’t do this to you, it’s totally cool for you or your heterosexual friends to go even further then this when pursuing women. They just have to accept your inherent lustful state.)”

  29. Dalx says:

    @Lord Genome
    Kudos to the one of that opinion.

  30. Yuko says:

    I see where you would dislike this if you weren’t a fan of P4. I still personally believe that P4 is best left as a game, and I do like the game much better so far, even though the anime isn’t as bad as I thought it would be – because trust me, I thought the anime version was going to be reall bad. I just couldn’t see the vast plot, side plots, characters, character interactions, battles, mechanics,….basically everything of the game translating smoothly into an anime…

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SuperMario
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I'm more of a slice of life guy so my watch for this season are: natsume, Yuri on ice, girlish number, drifters, Fune wo amu, Saiki and I'm behind on Keijo, Magical Girl raising project, occultic;nine, buranki, Bungo stray dogs. Have a lot to catch up it seems
Lenlo
This season im watching Yuri, Drifters, and Flip Flappers. When I get the time I also try to watch some Bakumon
AidanAK47
Besides what I am blogging, I am also watching Jojo, Flip Flappers, Girlish number and Keijo.
AidanAK47
I guess you want to know what everyone's watching in the current season?
Anonymous533091
This is a mess
Anonymous532773
So the what out there y'all
Anonymous532773
And so number one out there
Anonymous532773
And some new anime
Anonymous532773
So what's new anime y'all seen
Anonymous532773
That's what. I think
AidanAK47
@Anon530022, I am not going to deny being arrogant. That's just my nature. But you are going to have to explain how wanting a show to have a genuine gay romance is homophobic? Kinda missing the logical steps on that jump. Anyway you being gay is irrelevant as I have a bisexual friend who says the romance isn't realistic in the slightest.
Anonymous530636
real interaction which makes everything feel fake. (sorry about the test walls)
Anonymous530636
I love basically any sports/romance anime so Yuri should be straight up my alley, but instead it just fails at both, mainly the sports part since it does try to focus on fanservice of the relationship between Victor and Yuri. I don't feel like the relationship between the two of them is real whether it's romantic or not. They keep having characters voice their thoughts about each other but no
Anonymous530636
Hi random long-time psgels reader, personally I think Yuri on Ice has kind of lost on trying to be a real romance and a real sports anime. It's characters are pretty weak and combing from someone that actually reads BL manga, I agree that their overt level of fanservice like focusing on the two of their lips and the rings, etc doesn't match their level of outright talking about shit.
Anonymous530138
I like a good dickin
Lenlo
tl;dr, chill its an anime.
Lenlo
Age gap isnt that big, and its not homophobic or arrogant to say a show isnt selling an aspect of itself well in his opinion. Lastly, romance for every person is different, so dont expect him to share your experiences/views on it.
Anonymous529997
Also, how Viktor's choice to become Yuuri's coach might have been initiated by not just Yuuri's skating, but Yuuri himself.
Anonymous529997
@Mario: I agree on the strip dance. Like, holy crap. But overall, I really like how episode 10 reframed the series from Viktor's perspective. Like, at first the whole commemorative photo thing made him seem like a jerk, but now we get to see that he had actually had a great time with Yuuri and was probably being genuine about it...
Anonymous530076
What happened to angry german kid
Anonymous530022
You just want them to identify themselves. You feel as if it's your right to know that they are gay. Well it isn't. It is their life, their story. You are being homophobic. You are being close minded. You are being arrogant. You are, indeed, very arrogant.
Anonymous530022
It is a mixture of admiration and lust and because it is hard to distinguish between the two it is difficult to express your feelings directly or even admit it to yourself.
Anonymous530022
As a gay man I attest that this is how romance works, ESPECIALLY when there is an age and experience gap.
Anonymous530022
This shows romance is actually reaistic, but you are still rejecting it. Yuri literally said he had found love. He said neither way who it's directed towards yet you are SO INSISTENT that it is towards skating. in the episode Victor even expressed admiration to Yuri's own dispositions beyond skating. He clearly was 'watching' him.
AidanAK47
If they planned to take such a hands off approach to romance then it would be better if they just focused on the skating. But well then the fujoshi's wouldn't be buying the Blu-rays now would they?
Lenlo
I can understand that, thats a problem I have with alot of modern romance's. Im just not seeing the backing off that happens in those romances. They just seem to raise it more and more in Yuri, without ever crossing the line, rather than toeing it then backing off.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, To me I find it aggravating. They go so far to portray them as gay yet when it comes to the final say they keep backing off. Hey I want to be more that friends...just kidding! Hey I love you...just kidding! Hey lets get married...just kidding! It like how harems constantly tease the main getting together with each girl when by shows end you know he's not going to get with anyone.
SuperMario
@lenl: agree. I'm still enjoying the hell of the show. A bit out of the blues thou when it comes to the strip dance (they shoulve planted that before), but it's a joy to watch every week
Lenlo
Eh. As I said, I think its above bait below romance. Either way im enjoying it and thats the important part.
SuperMario
For me they're just too much at the moments but unless they confirm it, nothing changes.
Kaiser Eoghan
Y'know I kind of wish Rorico would just come out and directly say he feels too old for most anime, its not really surprising a man in his 60s would be so cranky when it comes to this stuff.
SuperMario
@lenlo: I think it's more about statements. Yes, we understand the context of rings and engagements but unless they confirm it, nothing set in stones. And "hinting" is what they love to do, you can see just by the 2 shows I've coverage myself: Sound Eupho (Reina & Kumiko), Flip Flappers (Papika & Cocona) and people saying those same underlining context things.
Lenlo
I think its beyond baiting, below full blown romance at this point myself.
Lenlo
Does a show have to confirm and say "They kissed" to make it true? Seems along the same lines as "Fade to black" for sex. Then theres the ED which also made the start of the show much more interesting, as with this ED not its Victor that was jilted at the airport, when Yuri ran away.
Lenlo
See, I dont understand why they have to come out and say "We are gay" for you to accept its an actual romance. I dont see how this is baiting anymore either, as the rings and the "Engagement" seem pretty clear to me. Also, without knowing the current climate on the matter in Japan, this could be the clearest they are allowed to make it, while still fully intending for it to be a real romance.
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Agreed. I said before that I would like to be proven wrong on this but this series doesn't seem to have done that yet. I really will admit I am wrong to Anon2 if it does provide proof but it would need to be far more substantial than this.
@Anon2, Girl, boy, whatever.
Anonymous529668
I'm not a girl.
Anonymous529660
Even that is just grasping at straws though, haha.
Anonymous529660
@Aidan: I think the only thing from that scene that hints at actual romance would be where Viktor says something along the lines of a lot of other people got their L words from Yuuri, which he had earlier stated are "Love" and "Life." Honestly, even this is pushing it though, but the fact that he said it like that suggests that both he and Yuri got "those words" from Yuuri.
AidanAK47
Way I saw that scene was the guy saying "Fuck you, you think Yuri is so great. Well I am gonna be better than Yuri. Just you wait and see" and then Victor remarking on how Yuri awoke his competitive spirit. Aka his love for Skating.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Although I like both, I always prefer impressionism better. Expressionism for me tend to be a bit overwhelming and a bit subjectively. But mind you Flip Flappers still has moments of Expressionist as well (Episode 6: Irochan's parents)
AidanAK47
@Anon, I got the context you saw fine. About him getting mad over the "Good luck charm". You are being baited girl, hook, line and sinker.
Anonymous529618
You are missing context. You don't know anything. You don't even know why Yuri was mad do you? Why the fuck would he be mad about loving skating.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I bring up the impressionism vs expressionism thing because I feel that the impressionistic aspects of say a Tarkovsky film, Malick film and flippflappers feel superior to me over expressionistic style because its more emotionally satisfying while ALSO being athmospheric, Whereas expressinistic visuals are ONLY atmospheric.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Flippflappers has now reached a level where I feel the impressionism has gone beyond simply visual immersive in a way that makes us part of its world and has become more emotional.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: You mention impressionism in your review of flipflappers, in general do you feel on a visual level you respond more strongly to expressionism or impressionism?
SuperMario
I watched the whole thing so I know that in this episode, except the time they're giving rings to each other (in the name of "good luck charm") and Victor somewhat pump Yuri up for the Gold medal by Not Denying it; they still haven't admitted anything.
AidanAK47
Perhaps I am not the one who is in denial.
AidanAK47
Oh I think I see it now. Yeah this is nothing mate. The conversation was about skating from begining to end and Victor mentioned that he wasn't the only one to get his "L words" from Yuri. Pretty clear he means how Yuri helped Yurio awaken a love for Skating. Romantic love doesn't really make sense within the context. But yeah, they admitted nothing.
AidanAK47
Quite frankly if they don't have the balls to admit they are gay by this point they are just not going to.
AidanAK47
Time stamp means the point in the episode he actually said it. Like 18 minutes 20 seconds in or something. You should be able to get one. But maybe you can't find it either. Only thing I found Was about yuri teaching victor through his life and love but that's ambiguous enough to refer to his love for skating.
Anonymous529435
Don't have time stamp
Anonymous529435
Episode is narrated by Victor
Anonymous529435
At the end Victor admits he's in love and mentions the other person is also
AidanAK47
@Anon, Can you give me the timestamp on the episode? Scanning through it I don't see anything that suggests that.
Anonymous529150
Not joked
Anonymous529150
They admitted
Anonymous529150
No those were both me it's just the chat doesn't show it immediately so I posted again
AidanAK47
@Masky, He's denied it before but it's pretty obvious he's trying to make it seem like someone's agreeing with him.
AidanAK47
@Anon, admitted or joked?
Masky
So wait, is that same anon repeating himself or two different anons where second one copy pasted part of first one's post
Anonymous528870
They literally admitted a love triangle between the three main characters. You're in denial.
Anonymous528815
Are you kidding? This episode they outright admitted a love triangle between the three main characters. You're in denial.
AidanAK47
I actually was going to admit that I was wrong when I heard about the "Kiss" and gladly do so. But when I watched the scene in question it's clear what I said is still correct. They will dance around it, sure. But never outright confirm it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, discussed this before when the "Kiss" happened. Despite the series hinting it, and hinting it hard, it still hasn't outright confirmed it. While I am sure it is head canon to the watchers, the series itself is just queer baiting.
SuperMario
Okay... Just watched this week's Yuri on Ice. Haha things got weird again... and they so nailed Barcelona here, I recognized most of the places.
SuperMario
@anon527634: actually about that, I am a bit let down that after that "supposed kiss" in episode 7, no one in the series mentioned it again. Just like that "kiss" never happened.
Anonymous527534
So when is Aidan going to publicly admit he was wrong about the Yuri romance?
Lenlo
I loved the special ED so much.
Lenlo
Alright... Yuri this week was interesting in so many ways.
SuperMario
I'm also planning to catch BBK/BRK before the year end soon. I'm also find that series entertaining despite its obvious flaws
Kaiser Eoghan
But come to think of it, I do know what its like to enjoy something admittedly flawed, the first season of utawerumono was like that for me, I have nothing but criticism of it in all aspects but yet ended up being one of those things I somehow enjoyed watching.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, only flippflappers, natsume, drifters on my end.
AidanAK47
I wonder if anyone here is still watching Bubuki Buranki? It's weird but despite how deeply flawed it is I find it fairly enjoyable. Though that fantastic soundtrack certainly helps.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh they announced a Sonic movie too. Apparently it's a mix of live action and animation.
Anonymous525559
I am suprised SEGA didn't announce an Sonic movie and went with games like Altered Beast and Crazy Taxi, they probably could have just ripped off one story from the Archie Sonic comics and make an movie based on that, preferably the story where Sonic travels in the multiverse to fight an super powerful Sigma alongside Classic Megaman and Megaman X,Steet Fighter cast,Breath of Fire 3 cast and more
AidanAK47
@Anon, A parody Grindhouse film actually could work. I consider Overkill the best of House of the dead. Thing is there actually is already a house of the dead movie so this would be their second attempt. The first attempt...lets just say it didn't work out.
Anonymous523336
And House Of The Dead: Overkill is probably the best game in the franchise to adapt, i mean, it has Isaac Washington in it and dude's awesome.
Anonymous523336
None of those games have much of a story, but at least House Of The Dead could make for an entertaining silly movie, i mean House Of The Dead: Overkill is freaking awesome and has silly cutscenes at the start and end of every level.
Kaiser Eoghan
At most moonbeam city seems sylistically interesting.
Kaiser Eoghan
Archer I simply lost track of and it ended up getting to long to catch up on it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Relatively old news, although I've been joking with friends about what if scenarios for a streets of rage film. I know there is a cg/live action hybrid sonic film in the works. I kind of want to think a shinobi or streets of rage film could work if they went full on 70s style action film.
AidanAK47
None of these games are played for the story. You would be better off just making a new game for them instead of a movie.
AidanAK47
I haven't even seen Archer. On another note SEGA is planning a bunch of live action movies of their franchises and boy do they all sound like a horrible idea. Shinobi, Golden Axe, Virtua Fighter, The House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Streets of rage and Altered Beast.
SuperMario
@Anon522497: hmm, I found Moonbeam City underwhelmed and for Archer up until their last season I actually got a bit tired of the cast (couldn't finish that season 7)
Anonymous522497
If i wanted Archer i would just watch Archer or Moonbeam City like everyone else.
Anonymous522338
Bloodivores
SuperMario
Anyone here watching Pacific Heat? It's an Aussie Archer-ripoff aired in Netflix last week. I actually enjoyed the 1st episode, not that great but everyone panned it like a plague.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Who?
Anonymous521123
#StephanieJaworowiczIsBeautiful
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: That'd be the compiliation film. I watched that based on hearing that the film version trimmed back on the shows weaker moments.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: was it the compilation film or the series itself? That scene is the highlight of that first season. I'm always a fan of KyoAni so it's very natural that I enjoy this series a whole lot.
Kaiser Eoghan
I watched the first season of sound euphonium, not much to say for it other than I liked the teacher guy and the scene where the black haired girl tells the main character that she thinks shes hiding behind a mask. Animation was as expected of kyoani good. All of those emotion shots though and some of the melodrama...
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, it does stop if you make an account.
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmmm there we go again, it delayed sending my message for longer than it should have.
Kaiser Eoghan
Anyone notice today and last night that the site has had some loading issues? I kept getting an error page for a while and it was also loading a bit more slowly. A server issue?
Lenlo
Have to say, Flip Flappers ep 5 was pretty good. I love atmospheric settings like that.
Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
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