Posted by psgels on 3 December 2011 with categories: Last Exile - Ginyoku no Fam



Whoa. they actually gave the people from Gracies the Russian language. And while I know nothing about that language, it actually sounded pretty authentic
there. This episode once again rocked, with some very solid dogfights and tactics. This episode did both justice to the Sylvius who had to escape against overwhelming odds, and Fam, who actually felt very responsible for guiding the enemy last week.

I’m still a big bugged about this whole “skyfish hunting”, though. This episode explained perfectly fine how this is done: destroying the Claudia tank of this huge warship eliminates the thing that keeps it afloat. It does leave me to wonder though: if it really is so easy, then why aren’t more people following Fam’s tactic? Or are Vanships really so hard to control that only the top pilots can really get a good shot before being shot down? That’s the thing that’s really bothering me about this series: why are there so little precautions made against Vanship attacks, even though it has been shown quite a few times that they can give the large warships quite a difficult time? Or did the enemies blow their entire budget on the huge imposing warships, hoping to win by intimidation?

So, eight episodes in and about a third of the way through, the execution has been a bit wonky, but the pacing has been surprisingly solid, albeit slow. This show was a bit clunky on the character introductions, but the past episodes have allowed us to get a good feel of the characters, and they’re beginning to stand out more. By far the best part though, is how much colour it brought into its world. This is the part at which I actually believe it’s getting better than the first Last Exile. The first Last Exile still stands miles above this one in terms of characters, though.
Rating: ** (Excellent)

24 Responses

  1. Kixmachina says:

    This would have been a very, very good episode…
    However, there are many things that made it off. For example, Fam’s sudden Skyfish hunting, as well as being able to pull off the sinking of the Anshar… There are also some quality issues in this episode…

    Still, there are many good highlights in this episode… Gracies seems to have badass firepower and cool technology, not to mention that they Russian! I also liked that the Silvius had to really struggle to be able to breakthrough the siege… I find it kinda annoying though that Fam herself doesn’t need to struggle as much…

    And what pains me in this episode is about Giselle! Poor girl! T_T How can Fam just leave her like that?!?

  2. Kixmachina says:

    This would have been a very, very good episode…
    However, there are many things that made it off. For example, Fam’s sudden Skyfish hunting, as well as being able to pull off the sinking of the Anshar… There are also some quality issues in this episode…

    Still, there are many good highlights in this episode… Gracies seems to have badass firepower and cool technology, not to mention that they Russian! I also liked that the Silvius had to really struggle to be able to breakthrough the siege… I find it kinda annoying though that Fam herself doesn’t need to struggle as much…

    And what pains me in this episode is about Giselle! Poor girl! T_T How can Fam just leave her like that?!?

  3. gandalf8 says:

    The “skyfish hunting” part has always bugged me too, besides the very noticeable abscence of a solid defense against Vanship attacks in the Federation fleets. It is certainly a viable tactic to be used against their ships as evidenced by Fam in this episode, so I am not satisfied that they left such a vulnerable weakness that could be easily exploited. And I cannot fathom how the heck Fam and co are gonna salvage the Anshar if it has sunk. I mean, won’t it be wrecked when it crashes down to earth? If it was still salvageable, can the Federation afford to just abandon their ships to their enemies? Can’t they salvage it back from where it crashes down? They have a lot of other ships in their fleet, right?

    Nevertheless, this was still a good episode overall. It was certainly nail biting to watch Silvinus’s fight against the Federation forces, besides getting a glimpse at the superior technology and weaponry at the disposal of the secretive Gracies forces. For me, this episode is signalling that the series is finally heading in the right direction and I find myself anxiously waiting for next week for more doses of Last Exile.

  4. goto says:

    next 2-3 episodes incoming drama between gisey and fam

    Honestly I think gisey is just being a . . .little girl getting her self all worked up and jealous of fam x milia as if she forgot the promise fam made to the king about keeping milia safe. . .what was that thing about sky pirates and ALWAYS honoring their contracts? (you know the king giving the family heriloom as payment)oh wait, all bets are off a once little girls throws hissy fits and gets her feelings hurt for the sake of *drama* and gissey just *happened* to be unable to ride the vanship with fam so save themselves from complete annihilation. I just face palmed at the scene of her crying after their asses just got SAVED, like seriously? you were just on the brink of death and the first thing you do is cry from jealousy instead of being glad you are alive?! Someone please shoot gisey now, Id rather millia take her role since she has gotten less whiny and more mature seeing as to what has happened to her over the course of the story. the impending two episodes of needless *dorama* is going to fuck up the pacing even more now. . .

  5. nymbryxion says:

    well in the first Last Exile they mentioned before that there was no concept of using Vanships for attacking big ships (instead they were used to deliver messages and scout). They only used Vanship fighters to fight against the Guild after it was demonstrated it was feasible (after the heroes inspired the Mad Thane to use smaller ships in battle).

  6. gandalf8 says:

    @nymbryxion: the problem is the setting is now on Earth, where the use of Vanships by the Sky Pirates for “Skyfish hunting” has been going on for quite some time already. I cannot believe that the Federation are not aware of that vulnerability as I believe the Sky Pirates have stolen a lot off their ships, hence the reason they set up that trap to annihilate Fam and Gisey’s band of Sky Pirates. If any off their enemies ever get it into their heads to use a fleet of Vanships each armed with those Claudia engine disablers like Fam had, the Federation fleets will surely be at a huge disadvantage.

  7. Silent Minstrel says:

    Using vanship to attack the Claudia tank is actually harder than what the anime shows. In Episode 4 Gisey mentioned she never succeed even during training.

    In the end of this episode Fam also says that this is their first success.

    So it IS a viable tactic, but not am easy one to pull off.

    The Ades battleships are equipped with small-caliber fast-firing weapon all over their body to shoot down those pesky vanships.In episode 8 several Silvius vanships are shown to be damaged after their sortie. However vespas are just too small for even those weapons to reliably shot down.

  8. lolcat says:

    yeah, ppl happy that Gracies are Russians+) Well, i myself happy as well, but my ears just hurt when i hear most of their phrases, since I’m russian. +) But i heard one of them speaking clearly ^_^

  9. valinor89 says:

    I for once liked the admiral or whatever saying they can’t loose valuable and experienced crewmembers… and they are loosing entire ships.
    By the way what is the purpose of rocket assisted vertical takeof if the first thing they do is going horizontal?

    The thing with point defense is that it is very dificult when you have manual control and nothing remotely like a computer to control it. And in anime point defense never works to stop the good guys.

  10. Guest says:

    I think one of the VAs is a native Russian speaker, but the others…at best she might’ve coached them. Was still an awesome surprise to hear it up in my Last Exile.

  11. DangerMouse says:

    I loved this episode.

    Totally agree on the Russian, it was really cool and further added to the scale of the world with an international feel.

    Perhaps the rockets got them to their target/border faster with the better propulsion.

    @valinor89: Totally agree, Sadri was great. He even upped his greatness with him caring about his crew and him and his crew saluting their ship which I loved, really added that little “classy” touch that the chivalry added on occasion in the original.

    Right gandalf8, and I think they are becoming aware of their weaknesses but change takes time, this is a massive fleet already in service. And they are in the midst of trying to outfit themselves with new anti-vanship weapons, it’ll take more time to address actual hull issues I’d imagine.

    Also perhaps they eventually could have salvaged the Anshar once it hit ground if it were in their territory however they are in extremely hostile territory (Glacias) and defending their dead ship from the Silvius with a fleet would easily bring Glacias forces since he was already keeping back most of his forces and already risking bringing in a smaller force so this ship is a relatively small loss given their fleet and huge number of ships and as he said he wants to save his men so it’s unlikely they can sit their waiting nor bring in a new fleet since they are across Glacias’ border and the ship won’t be able to fly for much longer leaking Claudia.

    Perhaps to finish off the capture off-screen maybe Dagobert from the Silvius as a real Guild engineer might be able to do something about that to prevent the Anshar from continuing to sink in a timely enough manner so as not to piss of Glacias since they may not be getting shoved out of Glacias territory quite as fast being one ship as Ades would and repair it just enough if they have some spare refined Claudia to refuel it a bit.

    Ooh, another interesting bit, since it’s Claudia Unit damage we’re talking about here this also brings up an interesting question for later as we continue to learn more about Ades (and hopefully some more Guild threads as started last time) about their level of Guild knowledge and that they may be not nearly as familiar as thought possible just because Luscinia and Alauda were in power positions (and they’re clearly keeping some things isolated since we’ve never seen them with Guild-hybrid like Alauda’s, and their battleships are “current” not even remotely even slightly “super advanced Guild”), in regards to these in the first series Anatoray and Disith generally couldn’t make them they came from the Guild and likely couldn’t repair all but basic damage (unlike the Silvana/Silvius design and it’s Guild engineer) so it may have mostly been a lost ship to them anyway.

    @goto: Gisey’s current is state is equally if not moreso about the “real war” around her and how hard she is on herself and the constant edge on which they’ve recently been in real combat and further pushed by watching the Sky Pirates getting shot down followed by worrying about her father’s ship. It was clear she was going break first from this kind of “you could die at any moment” than Fam who pushes her vulnerabilities to the back of her mind and takes action. With now both Milia and Giselle undergoing changes and/or losing their composure, hopefully it’s Fam’s turn now as we build to the mid-season climax as

    The most likely reason, like the first series, they haven’t addressed the weakness yet is that they can’t just refit and replace their entire fleet that quickly, these ships put everyone else’s battleships to shame as shown in how they’ve been able to take on every other world power so they are relatively new and the height of the “battleship era” and yet were likely created just before vanships began to be used in actual combat and probably soon before or just about when the Sky Pirates began to use vanships in a sort of early version of vanship combat (and before they had full knowledge of Glacias since they’re clearly built on isolation), they’ve been caught in the midst of the shift to a new style of combat which is why they recognize they are in no way yet prepared to take on Glacias and are in the midst of developing new weapons and likely other new countermeasures and defenses for these new tactics, likely while their engineers back home are likely in the midst of developing new ships, but things are moving fast and they’ve been caught in between like most ships in the first series that stared down the Silvana and Alex and Tatiana’s groundbreaking tactics. Glacias is in isolation and the Silvius is a new player since they don’t even know where Anatoray is yet and it’s only been 2 years since they came to Earth (plus it’s unlikely they even knew the Silvius was a carrier until she launched her hidden fighters)

  12. DangerMouse says:

    Damn that did not seem so big in the little text window….I would have split that up since I posted about several different things, sorry excuse the massive post.

  13. jzar says:

    From what little I know about ships at sea if they had to abandon ship they would also set explosive charges on board to ensure no enemy would be able to salvage her. So, unless they throw that basic premise out the window the Anshar is going not going to be useable.

    I am guessing that Fam boarded the vessel and disarmed the ship and stopped the engine power link….it was in the scene we didn’t see this episode. :)

    Any way great episode, I’m gonna have to go watch it again.

  14. gandalf8 says:

    @DangerMouse: I don’t think the Silvius are infringing into Glacies territory right now. They had crossed the border in their attempt to escape the Federation fleet, but they managed to escape towards the Grand Lake as seen when they were just about to crash. If my memory serves me right, the Grand Lake isn’t in anyone’s territory, more like the international waters in our world where no specific country has full control off. I also don’t think the Anshar sunk in Glacies teriitory, as when they started to pursue the Silvius after all their sub fleets were damaged, the Silvius had already withdrawn from Glacies territory during the commotion of the Glacies forces opening fire on the encroaching Federation fleet.

  15. cheese says:

    @goto
    Your comment about Giselle is probably as pathetic as that brain of yours. Giselle is probably one of the more mature characters in this series. She understands the gravity of war and its cost, while Fam and Milia are just two simple and THE MOST NAIVE characters ever. Fam has her ability as a pilot to support her outrageous stunts in battle, but Milia is the “little girl with nothing strong about her.” Seriously, the downfall of this episode for me was exactly how unlikely Anshar was sunk. Let’s accept that destroying the tank underneath the ship can destroy the whole ship, even though that’s also ludicrous for such a grand battleship. Then you have Fam charging in at high speed. Milia, the princess with little experience in markesmanship, pointed the gun, and HAS to hit the mark. 2 MAJOR mistakes happened. Why would anyone close their eyes when she is aiming for something that must be absolutely shot down??? Second, her inexperience, indicated by arm movements that the huge recoil was taken, still allowed her to shoot down the tank, which was exactly the hard part, as suggested earlier when Giselle commented on how she could never do that. So, if inexperience Milia can sink Anshar, why not let everybody pilot vanship and sink other battleships???
    Furthermore, Fam NEEDS Giselle as the navigator. Haven’t you realize most of the tactics require timing and knowledge? (since you have limited amount of info-gathering-instrument on a vanship) Giselle is the brain of the vanship while Fam just execute them flawlessly. For example, the last turn during the race in episode 6, Fam needed Giselle’s precise timing, and Giselle delivered. Who else can be as knowledgeable as Giselle? She even memorized almost every strategic information required? It’s even lucky that Fam returned with Milia in their “sky-fish hunting” sorty. Seriously, Milia matured??? She’s even wiling to sacrifice her self to save Silvius, not knowing it’s a trick…and just imagine how she will govern her kingdom if she did gain them back in the end of the series…she’s way too incompetent by her naive-ness. Back to Giselle, yes, she did feel jealous of Fam and Milia relationship, but only a little. She’s more grateful that both of them returned safely than she’s more jealous of them. Furthermore, she never promised to protect Milia, it was Fam and her rashness again. Plus, wouldn’t you be more concerned about your family more than some random kingdom’s business??? She’s not throwing “hissy fit,” she’s just breaking down from all the emtions from the past events. Think about all the times Giselle saved Fam and herself with her quick-decision. You, however, are the one throwing a “little girl’s fit” Go face palm yourself next time if you have something naive to comment, just like Milia.

  16. drask says:

    @cheese
    You hate Fam. We get it already. We dont need a wall of text. Normally I dont post any comments but yours are just to annoying. Giselle is not mature, she is emotionally weak. So is Millia but not as much as Giselle. Yes Giselle is smart and clever but no planner. She is good at the practical implementation of someone else’s plan. Much like a sergeant carrying out a plan made by an officer. Of almost everything they did the basic plan was almost always Fam’s. Giselle just figured out how to actually do it. In ep 1 both the first catch and Lassas was Fam´s basic plan. So was the first capture for Tatiana where Fam figured out they somehow trick the owners when she saw the uniforms. In episode 7 Fam figured out how they would escape but left the actual implementation to Giselle. Giselle herself would have never figured it out, she was panicking to much.
    Fam is foolish and naive but does not suffer from tunnel vision the way Giselle does. Fam is also stupidly fearless. As for Millia most of the maturing she did was because Fam forced her into situation the was unfamiliar with. Also seem to forget that Millia did a lot of book studying during the time Fam and Giselle where out hunting skyfish. Before she could not even read the lightcodes. Fam forced Millia to recognize her own weakness. Until now Fam has been the officer and Giselle the sergeant who figures out how to carry out the officers plan. Giselle is as dependent of Fam as Fam is of her. Actually Fam could probably manage somehow on her own. But right now Giselle is completely dependent on someone showing her the right direction. She herself is incapable of it.

  17. cheese says:

    @drask
    Thank you for putting a constructive argument. I stand corrected on several points, one of them being giving the impression I’m saying Giselle is too smart. I do agree Fam and Giselle need each other, Fam being the officer, and that Giselle is emotionally weak, which again is why I like Giselle more, since it shows a more humane side to the story. However, you’re missing my original contention. I only wrote a couple of lines about Fam and I actually like her, not hate her. BUT, I dislike Milia and her character. Tell me, how has she mature throughout the series? She has been going through hard times, but in no way has it indicated she snapped out of her naive-ness, which in fact SHOULD be the result of enduring hardships. My original contention is that Giselle is not useless, like goto said in his/her post. And I also pointed out that Milia, which he/she said is more capable than Giselle, is actually not. Explain how it’s logical that Milia sunk the battleship with her skill, and the fact she closed her eyes right before she shot…The only good thing about her is that she sure has immense luck.
    Lastly, thank you again for putting such a solid argument, disproving some of my points, but please at least stay on topic next time, since I was trying to say Giselle is not a worthless girl in the series, as goto insisted that “somebody shoot her now”
    P.S. What is wrong with putting a wall of text? What do you find annoying in that, since you also put a huge wall of text and you chose to read my comment? AND you DON’T get my point…so I guess next time I need a bigger wall of text to make it even clearer…(sarcasm)

  18. drask says:

    @cheese
    I will be jumping somewhat between different themes: Giselle is not useless. she a skilled and excellent sergeant. The best you could want. But she is not a leader.
    Milia is more mature than she was at the beginning of the series, where was a fairly arrogant princess (a product of her upbringing). Just look how she behaved towards Teddy. Does she behave this way now? Not really. On the other hand Milia is still not very mature. But she did realize her weakness. That she was powerless and did not really know much about the world. Thats one step towards maturity. Next step towards maturity is that she realized she had to do something about it. As I mentioned before studied things like light signals and other things while on Silvius. One can presume she studied things like weaknesses of Ades warships and what a navi must know. Central to this is Fam who constantly pushes Milia into new situations. Like when they went to get back her sisters glass and telling Milia the was an orphan or putting Milia into the situation where she got captured by Silvius (Dio did not help). Or pushing Milia to establishing a government in exile or lastly forcing Milia to be her navi. Fam pushes her, knowingly or not, to mature whether she wants it or not. I suspect Fam did the same thing with Giselle when they where young. Thats why she is such a good navi but also shy she is so emotionally weak. Fam is to dominant. This will probably be bad in the long run.
    As for the sinking of the Ades battleship. Remember that Fam and Giselle tried to use this tactic in ep 4 when they tried to capture the Silvius and failed miserably because Anatoray are not stupid (like Ades) and put Silvius claudia unit deep inside the ship protected by armor. Giselle also said she never succeeded getting the shot even in training. This indicates this is a known weakness in Ades warships and Giselle thought Silvius would have the same weakness. One can suspect this was not a stupid design choice by Ades but probably a compromise of some sort. Their newer battleship are big and heavy so the claudia units must work a lot which requires a lot of cooling. They did not use vanships in combat so they probably did not think it would be a problem. Remember Gracies vanships have anti ship guns so a hit is going to hurt a lot anyway. Also from Giselles prior experience the target is difficult to hit. One can rationalize it like this but is was probably just a convenient anime plot weak point.
    Basically Milia was just very very very lucky in hitting it since normally it does not seem to be a viable option. Also Silvius would have probably escaped whether they sank Ansher or not.
    I suspect th post has gotten a bit to long sorry.

  19. cheese says:

    @drask
    Thank you again for another intellectual comment. This probably will be my last comment, seeing that we’re mostly in an agreement. I completely agree that “Giselle is not useless….But she is not a leader.” And your second paragraph completely reaffirmed my contention that Milia has to be VERY lucky to get that shot. And you further provided a plausible scenario why there’s the weakness on Anshar, even though it still seemed a little ludicrous XD The only point I still do not agree on is Milia maturing. As of NOW, I will have to say Milia is still too naive. (hopefully that will change) She “might know her weakness” but she’s still not making any improvement on her character or intelligence. And I highly doubt Milia can understand anything about Ades’ weakness…Anyway I really liked this episode, despite some minor flaws. Lastly, once again, I thank you for your even longer wall of comment! XD And I hope you can see my original contention that goto is the one being annoying with his/her naive comment.

  20. kero says:

    This episode was really exciting and I loved the battle scenes and the introduction of another country and their kick ass tech.

    The downside to the episode was that Millia made the shot that brought down the battleship.
    It’s annoying that the set up such a good battle scene with very real looking tactics, and then they win because some princes with NO experience of being a navi and NO experience of shooting, manages to shoot down a battle ship WITH HER EYES CLOSED.

    I felt like flipping a table right there.

    @goto that’s all kinds of harsh. Gisey/Giselle is what,a 15yo girl suddenly sucked into this do or die battle that she never wanted to get involved with in the first place, and you think that all she’s doing is having a ‘hissy fit’.

    You chose to interpret her tears as being due to jealousy, but I would say that it’s a part of what she’s feeling, but I’d believe that she’s also relieved that Fam survived, and that she’s also crying because of the situation she’s found herself in.

    Human beings are complex, it is possible to feel more than one thing at the same time.

    ___

    Like @cheese I’m not a fan of Millia, she’s not really shown herself to be intelligent or country ruler material. She needs to sharpen up, but I’m not convinced that Last Exile is intent on making anything better out of her.

    I’d have been disappointed by the weaknesses in the main girls, if it wasn’t for the fact that Last Exile has a lot of female characters that kick ass.

    .. Where was Dio btw? he completely disappeared from the screen.

  21. Kanub says:

    Giselle can be compared to Ravie in 1st series.
    She too wasent fit for combat, and it hit her pretty hard when the fighting started.

    With everything thats been going on, it wasent a surprise to see her break down in the end.

    Fam is almost like Claus. Too blind to see and understand her feelings, and simply go with her own ideas.
    Honestly, Fam shoulda been made a little bit more responsible.

    Still, very good episode. Music fit in perfectly, and cant wait to see more of them russian pilots!

  22. kero says:

    @kanub

    It feels like a travesty to compare Fam to Claus, from what I remember, their characters are very different.

    I keep waiting for the moment where I’ll warm up to Fame, Gonzo! throw me a bone here!

  23. Anon says:

    Lol, “authentic”, the pronunciation and accent and grammar was so bad that I didn’t realize it was Russian right until the end of the opening. This is not 2001, it’s not that hard to dig up some native Russian speakers to sho-in in Japan. Next time they ought to check the local taverns in Hokkaido ports.

  24. WatcherZero says:

    Late/early post second world war they did develop rocket powered interceptors, the idea was they would quickly get off the ground and to altitude ready to meet incoming aircraft in a very short time then dump the expended rockets for better maneoverability. They were very quickly superceded when lighter/more powerful jet engines were developed but the same idea persists, in aerial combat the high ground is very important and shaving a few minutes getting to it before the incoming hostiles hit you is still important.

    Also im thinking Giselle/Fam is Ravie/Claus clones.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: So based on that I will try devil lady. Thanks.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: That'd be me who made that post. I thought dororon enma-kun was wonderfully ridiculous and Devilman gorishly entertaining, Shin Mazinger Z was probably some of the most fun I had with an anime, but violence jack took it way too far though so I guess I'm aquainted with nagai's work
Vonter
I don't remember who was looking for something noir in anime. I was looking among several series from Go Nagai. And watched some Devil Lady. I don't remember if noir is exclusively detective stories, but this anime, has those high contrast shadows, eerie music and is shot like some japanese horror movies I've seen. I don't know if it changes along the road but so far it's very suspenseful.
SuperMario
I only know him through his works in Berserk and Paprika but his music never fails to amaze me
Anonymous1626471
@Amagi: Ghost Bridge is my favourite. I just find it very calming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeh5aJsxlbw
Amagi
Susumu Hirasawa is one of my favorite musicians/composers. I don't even know what kind of subgenre this is. There aren't any other music groups I know who do similar stuff
Nielllo
@Mario, Already saw that video before.
SuperMario
Check this out... I don't even know what the freaking instrument he's playing, but it's spellbound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjalQjAomH0
Niello
Just when I thought Houseki no Kuni took the prize for best animation I was treated with Apocrypha. This week is amazing.
Niello
Big name animators all over. They really threw everything they've got here.
Niello
Woooooah! OMG Apocrypha ep 22 animation is sick! So that's why the animation in the first half of the show is so lackluster and basically just darn awful.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its not entirely odd to bring up Heydrich in relation to the occult either, apparently he was said to be part of some whackjob order.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm, that girl from Dies irae, Anna Schwegln is aptly named, also shares her name with the last executed person for witchcraft, who was Bavarian German, which i'm told by an Austrian friend were particular right-est leaning politically.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course unfortunately its often the opposite that happens, nothing is worse than an ending that ruins everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, how I love being surprised by something. That feeling where you''re watching something shakily held together, simply okay or good, then suddenly in the second half or last stretch your score of it goes massively up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can kind of understand the wanting to go home and watch something easy mentality instead of challenging but even though I'm guilty of escapism, I'm tired somewhat of "sillier" stuff, its often enjoyable but its get overly reptitive and I wish I could find more philosophical/political/imaginative things.
Amagi
Yeah the show is great because of its theme, the setting and chemistry girls have as well as their (lack of) knowledge about basic human things. Each episode thematizes this in a different way but there isn't much you can talk or say about it when you already explained the topic in detail.
SuperMario
On the other hand, I don't have much to talk about Girls' Last Tour this week. It's still good, but with this episode I feel that I'm running out of concrete thig to say about the show
SuperMario
Haha both Houseki and 3-gatsu have a good showing this week. I have a lot of things to talk about Houseki in particular
Amagi
This week's Houseki is jurassic park
Amagi
*-ati - I think Netflix and so are at least giving a few new impulses which isn't too bad. I don't think the typical anime series will disappear because of that.
Amagi
At least in comparisation
Amagi
I think it's just sad how often I see wonderful series selling 500 BD/DVD or maybe even less. Most series don't sell more than 1500 or so and the rest is usually at ~3000-5000 which is still pretty low.
Amagi
Yeah, it's one of my pro-Netflix arguments as well. Another problem is that anime (not counting manga) only make money through dvd/bd sales since they air at night, whereas Netflix or daytime tv series don't depend on the latter so much and since anime BDs are so expensive the only ones who buy them are the more extreme fans.
AidanAK47
Might be in part due to the workaholic nature of their society that makes escapist fantasy and empty entertainment more appealing than usual. Ultimately these are the people anime is made for so opening up the markets gives more deserving shows a fighting chance.
Though that isn't to say that western taste is perfect either.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, That's part of the reason I think some westernation might be a good thing as from what I seen the Japanese have truly terrible taste in anime. Sales charts from Japan just make me shake my head.
Amagi
God, the preorder anime lists are atricious. The only one that seems to sell acceptable (around 6k) is Mahoyome. Series like Inuyashiki have 80 pre-orders so far, Shuumatsu Shoujo 977. Idol shows sell good of course, including that male/bishounen Idolmaster
AidanAK47
@Anon, I read it but kinda fell out due to it's releases being slow.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Actually if you check the manga recommendations section, you'll see there is a post about it here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yes, it was interesting to follow a story that dealt with a characters homosexuallity that was outside of the yaoi/yuri mould.
Anonymous1620968
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here read Shimanami Tasogare?
Niello
Where are we up to with Inuyashiki?
Lenlo
Well alright then. Episode 9 out of 11 and that happens. Was not expecting that
Lenlo
Ooo something happen this week? Im about to watch it
Kaiser-Eoghan
It feels just as rushed and awkward in the manga.
Amagi
I noticed this too
AidanAK47
Inuyashiki has balls of steel to pull that in this particular episode number.
Nielllo
Finally got around to reading Helck, and it looks like it's going to go into that pile of good-shounen-that-won't-ever-get-animated right alongside Psyren.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Imagine trying to buy the dvds of the show in public.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Gentle remind that the prism ilya movie is out and subbed.
AidanAK47
Still surprised the second and third seasons got dubbed.
AidanAK47
@Angel, I replied to one of your comments before but the rundown is no official word yet but maybe next year.
Angel
Or no? Someone please tell me!!
Angel
Going to happen?
Angel
Is fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub
Amagi
I dislike it when manga bait me into reading due to the first chapter and end up being some very generic stuff afterwards. Nobody stays for B if he started something for A, authours should expect that.
Lenlo
Really, Juuni should stick with the 3D. That fight in ep 9 looked pretty good. 3D is clearly what they are good at
AidanAK47
@Niello, It's not Chatango. It's a plugin for wordpress called Wisechat.
SuperMario
@Niello: yeah, Juuni caught me off guard this week. The production of Juuni is unfortunately shaky, but well, strong writing can save the day
Niello
Btw is this chat still Chatango?
Niello
This week episode of Juini is surprisingly good compared to how the show usually is with its backstory. Although the part where Ox tries to explain to Tiger could definitely use some visual buff.
SuperWooper
in the future*
SuperWooper
Pretty cool that Juuni Taisen had that kind of emotional heft this week, though. Might be one of the 2017 shows I sample the in the future.
SuperWooper
I think the occasional comments with an episode title and nothing more come from people who mistake the shoutbox for a search bar.
SuperMario
@Anon1614688: juuni taisen... made me tearing up this week. Honestly didn't expect that. Damn you, Tiger
Anonymous1614688
juuni taisen
Amagi
Had some complaints regarding Children of Whales but the latest two episodes were pretty good.
Amagi
@Anon: You explained it better than me.
Anonymous1614307
Kaiser: I actually have the exact same opinion of Natsume and Mushishi. Both are excellent, but Natsume just does a great job with a small core cast and a very simple premise
Anonymous1614456
who likes naruto
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mushishi does have good stories, but it was always a manga I'd dip in and out of, on and off for years, never marathoning it, wheras Natsume was easier to read several chapters of in one go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its because Natsume has more pathos.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more than
Natsume weirdly ended up becoming this comfort manga for me with a higher consistency rate .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will state that I hold the terrible opinion that I like Natsume Yujinchou than Mushishi but at the same time completely recognize that Mushishi is probably the more ambitious, better show.
Niello
So it becomes a cycle of "this is an interesting set up" (except that the new Kino isn't even good at that) and then they fucked up or Kino/Shizu fucked them up even more, then move on. Without the emphasis on philosophical nature of the set up they present like in the original Kino, there really isn't that much point to it.
Niello
With the new Kino it's more about messing people up, occassionally observing and hardly ever improving. The anwsers or solutions to the problem they present is never really talked about in a rational way.
SuperMario
@Anon1614318: maybe you should give the old Kino a try. What I don't like most about the new version of Kino is that both Kino and the new guy are sketched as hero. The old Kino manages the tone right as well. There were some really dark tales and most of them thought-provoking. Can't say the same for say...Country of Cooking
Anonymous1614318
I don't know, it might be interesting to actually dig deep into the differences between episodic series with this kind of style to see what works and what doesn't.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's a matter of the chapter they chose to adapt were not really the better ones but the ones where the protagonist is more of an active role. Not totally against that, but it feels like the protagonist is just OP all the time. At least with Mushishi Ginko isn't able to save everyone all the time.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's supposed to be more allegorical, but most of the time the allegory is not really meaningful enough. I thought it would be more along the lines of Mushishi, which is kind of similar in setup, but better in most other ways.
Anonymous1614318
What keeps me sticking around are some of the nice background arts and generally pleasant use of color, but admittedly most of the episodes aren't really engaging in a meaningful way. Most of the time its just Kino/Shizu show up, find out town's gimmick, then save the day. I prefer the episodes where the townspeople are more than just flat background characters.
Anonymous1614318
It's interesting to see how this new Kino season is being received from folks who've already watched the original. This is my first real exposure to Kino, and I kind of like it, but even without watching the original, I share many of the same complaints Aidan and most of the others have.
Amagi
I am also kinda sad he's just some 2* servant in fgo, but his power is special and he's physically weak, so it's understandable.
Amagi
And again, Shakespeare is just great but the character is, sadly, kinda wasted here considering how much screentime he has.
Amagi
@Aidan: Yes. Plus, maybe more characterization or background for some servants. The anime would have that time without Sieg and his romance sub plot.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Those being remove Sieg and more Shakespeare?
Amagi
And man Apocrypha is pretty good but it would be twice as good if it had those two changes Aidan always mentions in the reviews..
Amagi
@Kaiser: I think the male in Kino was a mistake. Having two PoV sounds good, but he's basically just a male Kino, he even looks like her. Someone vastly different would have been way more interesting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd guarantee that sangatsu no lion would be high up, but FINALLY this weekend I'll be catching up.
Niello
@Kaiser, Ugh my phone gitched. What I meant to say was that background was unexpected. Now I see why you're enjoying CotW though.
Niello
@Kaiser, That's unexpected.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoyed how outright surreal Arakawa was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: It bothers me that they're stuffing multiple tales into single episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, excel saga, I wonder what I would think of it now, its been years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I actually respect Aidan's coverage of it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: Yes that edgy villain kid in COTWs was annoying though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I don't care much for the male character that leads some of the episodes in this new adaptation.
@Niello: Its a non-mainstream shoujo that isn't set in a school, moves at a quick enough pace and has some nice background art/chara design, I grew up on shoujo fantasy manga also so theres that.
Amagi
I mean there are parts I like. I enjoyed the first episode, and the part about the country of liars. But many other things annoy me and the last episode was the worst. I also feel like the edgy bomb loli and slapstick Kino don't fit to the rest of the show somehow. Maybe I forgot everything, but the "old" Kino felt like a better character to me somehow, this one is more faithful to the LNs though
Amagi
@Kaiser: I honestly gave up on Kino and I think it's only partly the fault of the new series. I am just so tired of how stupid most of the episodic-characters are unless their are friends of Kino, how everyone gets bent being irredeemable evil for plot's sake and how everything Kino and her friends do gets justified. Maybe I am just too old or boring for this fairy tail like moral bending.
SuperMario
Still have Night is Short review to write... i will get there. I will get there
Anonymous1612237
It's like having potty mouth characters. If you have one, it can be funny and a good comedic relief. If everyone does it, it can come out as mean spirited or trashy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I haven't watched A Bad Idea Gone Wrog, as for now my top priority is to catch up with 2017 anime for the Yearly summary. But I will get on to it when I have some free time
Anonymous1612237
Amagi - Chibi stuff I've seen it mainly work in anime comedies with low budgets like Those Who Hunt Elves, Ranma, Excel Saga, Arakawa Under the Bridge, Nanbaka, etc. I think if you really have to use it in a more serious anime, I think it might work if it was part of one character's gag.
SuperMario
Children of the Whales, along with Juuni Taisen, keep falling out on me. Kino is pretty a hit-or-miss at the moment. I don't mind the last episode's multiple tales though
Niello
Problem about AMB chibi jokes are that they arwn't funny in the first place nor do they have a punch line.
Niello
@Eoghan, Really surprise you put Children of the Whales so high, I'm falling behind on some shows but it is still near the bottom of my list (the absolute bottom remains Kino).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The latest Kino episode was a real slap in the face/insult, really really thought that one segement would carry on for the whole episode and be a redemptive one/getting the series back on form but then it followed it up with crap comic relief segement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: For now yes.
Lenlo
Droppin Mahou Kaiser?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I no longer care what Dia's gender is, no longer I will lie to myself and deem them female.
Kaiser-Eoghan
5. would be juuni taisen
Kaiser-Eoghan
My rankings for the season based on what I am following: 1. Houseki no kuni 2. Children of the whales 3. inuyashiki 4. girls last tour dropping mahou and Kino.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't remember Joseph being all that present from what little I read of the manga.
Amagi
Fear so too. I mean it has a bunch of good ideas and good quality and such, but it feels like it won't be much more than the magical being of the week (or two weeks) and some Elias highjinks inbetween
Kaiser-Eoghan
I still say, I've got the feeling mahou will be wasted potential that won't really go anywhere much.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Did you watch that indie film you recommended yet? Bad idea gone wrong it was called. I just finished it there, budgetary limitations and outside of Matt Jones the acting isn't great, theres a few limp/dead bits too, nonetheless it has its amusing moments here and there to make for an okay comedy that isn't all that essential but amusing enough in moments if your bored.
Amagi
Yeah I think Mahou has some pacing issues. But I also think it would work way better if it was less episodic or semi-episodic.
SuperMario
I normally don't mind the chibi stuff that much but I agree in Mahoutsukai they break the tone and pacing. Serious at one time, fluffy at another...
Amagi
@Vonter: I honestly never like chibi stuff I think. Didn't care back then but nowadays I consider it annoying. One reason is that jokes only work when they aren't pointed out but just happen, sometimes even so casually that you almost miss them. Turning everyone into a chibi for a joke makes it as fun as repeating, explaining or shouting it again (which many series also do)
KTravlos
I have to give it to Altair. It got me reading the manga. The episode this week did skip over a whole manga story, but to be frank it is not too much of a loss. Pacing issues still exist. One thing I noticed was a degrading in animation. They are probably hoarding for the next two episodes which are the major battle.
Anonymous1611511
Just dropping my 2c here: Isn't it too late for the studio to correct such inherent design issue once eps start rolling out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Angel: The dub wasn't all that impressive in the first place however.
Angel
When Will fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub come out?
Vonter
The chibi stuff sadly, is like watching someone make the same mistake over and over again, without acknowledging that thing isn't coming across well. At this point it seems like an intentional choice rather than just cutting corners. Kinda like when an anime has a decent dub but has that one character with a really annoying voice.
Lenlo
Its continued this willful ignorance, this virtual refusal, to actually address the issue. Thing about the chibi is, the first scene with Silver worked. Then it just got overused.
KTravlos
Mahoutsukai continues denying itself. We finally had some tough questions asked, but the show just ignored them in the 2nd half (with generous doses of chibi). That said Elias true form is terrifying.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: If you enjoy The Scent of the Green Papaya and Cyclo, you can also check out his unofficial third film about Vietnam: The Vertical Ray of the Sun, which is about the modern day of Hanoi. It's my favorite film of his, although I know that artistically it can't compare to his earlier films
SuperMario
And I can say the mafia aspect of Cyclo is more like Hong Kong than Vietnam. But, whatever. I like this one well enough
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I particularly love the score in Cyclo. No wonder later on Tran Anh Hung asked Joony Greenwood from Raidoohead to score his films. His score has the same uncomfortable feeling with this one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would have watched an entire story based around that old man in the new Kinos journey episode.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Though while I never found it boring, it did feel it could have had a better narrative.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Cyclo I felt has some reasonable sketched characters and the aesthetic sells the viewer on the environment the characters are living in, Tony Leung was my favourite in it, I also like how some Asian films are able to mix quietness with moments of violence, makes it much more visceral.
SuperWooper
I'd lean towards weirdest thing you've ever seen. It's certainly up there for me.
Masky
...I can't figure out whether Sengoku Jidai with batman is weirdest thing I have ever seen or makes completely perfectly sense and was inevitable it would happen
K-Off
The map design should've been vastly more different, I'd love to hear why they thought it was worth it to keep the same maps as Gaiden. So. Much. Open. Fields.
K-Off
Finally got to playing Fire Emblem Shadow, and 15 hours in I'm already not a fan of the gameplay. The story is vastly superior to Gaiden, but it looks like it missed the point on how to make a good remake. The maps are just as god awful as in Gaiden and for it, (in hard mode) it feels like a game of numbers rather than strategy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I feel drama need not always go for emotions in the audiences but can be effective in a solely cold observational sense and approach.
SuperMario
haha you don't need to spy you know. Like I said Discord chat has been active lately. I find myself more comfortable chatting in there for some reasons.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I spy on the discord chat sometimes
Kaiser-Eoghan
Worried about this Junji itou adaptation thats coming up, hope it isn't one of those zero animation web-short series.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: he still has Flashmob in which he intended to make. Yeah, he started his career quite late but he has had a very successful career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Potentially could be his last film, he is quite old.
SuperMario
Agree that Happy End has many quirkier moments compared to his other works. Still a solid work but I won't rank it amongst his best
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Watching Happy End, you can immediately realize many of Haneke's favorite themes: the voyeur/camera in Benny's Video, Cache; the latent racism like you mentioned, the idea that killing someone you love is better than watching them suffering, the underlying violence in a normal middle class life in most of his works
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Like with code unknown, its approach to latent rascism is far better handled than for example a terrible hollywood oscar bait drama would handle it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I felt though had the film been a bit longer, Huppert and Jones could have gotten more scenes, same with Franz Rogowski's character.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I did however think that the disjointed nature of the earlier parts were both to the advantage and disadvantage of the film. But it delivers a killer of a last act that I loved.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally got around to seeing happy end, I liked the Cache and amour references and how Haneke cheekily managed to insert quirkier moments and even wry ones so seemlessly into the narrative. Fontaine ,Kassovitz and Tringnent had the best scenes, particularly the ones between Fontaine and Tringnent.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Physical, non-verbal communication is a far more valuable way of conveying information I believe and more effective in fiction.
SuperMario
Report on Just Because so far: they took on the three-way romance direction, which I initally ain't fond of. But last episode actually was great with the focus on body gestures and natural dialogues, delivering one of the brst exchange the show has this season. A good watch overall
Lenlo
Sadly, the only anime youll probably get like that will be made outside japan, like Castlevania was, and wouldnt be considered "anime" by most of the community. A shame, cause Castlevania was great.
Lenlo
A classic western would be cool. Like Red Dead the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I am just coming up with fantasizing now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Even a Raymond Chandler style of story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd also love to see a non-scifi western anime get made now or even an east meets west thing with cowboys AND samurai in it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats a good example Vonter I guess but I probably should have been more clear/clarified that what I meant is that I wanted to see more noir anime being made NOW , I want netflix to back one . I mean the kind of thing where everyone is wearing fedoras and trench coats and its 1930/40/50, shadows everywhere or it looks impressionistic.
Vonter
Kaiser-Eoghan - Monster is a very grounded detective like story. The villain is good and intimidating, some moral dilemmas are poignant and despite being animated I remember it having good direction of photography since the story takes place Germany, Prague, and some other places.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've only seen bits of wolf rain many years ago, never bothered with it further after hearing the pacing is terrible and it makes an unsatisfactory ending even less worth waiting for.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, but I mean without science fiction elements.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser"I'd love to see an anime take of film noir."
What do you call Cowboy bebop?
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