Posted by psgels on 3 December 2011 with categories: Last Exile - Ginyoku no Fam



Whoa. they actually gave the people from Gracies the Russian language. And while I know nothing about that language, it actually sounded pretty authentic
there. This episode once again rocked, with some very solid dogfights and tactics. This episode did both justice to the Sylvius who had to escape against overwhelming odds, and Fam, who actually felt very responsible for guiding the enemy last week.

I’m still a big bugged about this whole “skyfish hunting”, though. This episode explained perfectly fine how this is done: destroying the Claudia tank of this huge warship eliminates the thing that keeps it afloat. It does leave me to wonder though: if it really is so easy, then why aren’t more people following Fam’s tactic? Or are Vanships really so hard to control that only the top pilots can really get a good shot before being shot down? That’s the thing that’s really bothering me about this series: why are there so little precautions made against Vanship attacks, even though it has been shown quite a few times that they can give the large warships quite a difficult time? Or did the enemies blow their entire budget on the huge imposing warships, hoping to win by intimidation?

So, eight episodes in and about a third of the way through, the execution has been a bit wonky, but the pacing has been surprisingly solid, albeit slow. This show was a bit clunky on the character introductions, but the past episodes have allowed us to get a good feel of the characters, and they’re beginning to stand out more. By far the best part though, is how much colour it brought into its world. This is the part at which I actually believe it’s getting better than the first Last Exile. The first Last Exile still stands miles above this one in terms of characters, though.
Rating: ** (Excellent)

24 Responses

  1. Kixmachina says:

    This would have been a very, very good episode…
    However, there are many things that made it off. For example, Fam’s sudden Skyfish hunting, as well as being able to pull off the sinking of the Anshar… There are also some quality issues in this episode…

    Still, there are many good highlights in this episode… Gracies seems to have badass firepower and cool technology, not to mention that they Russian! I also liked that the Silvius had to really struggle to be able to breakthrough the siege… I find it kinda annoying though that Fam herself doesn’t need to struggle as much…

    And what pains me in this episode is about Giselle! Poor girl! T_T How can Fam just leave her like that?!?

  2. Kixmachina says:

    This would have been a very, very good episode…
    However, there are many things that made it off. For example, Fam’s sudden Skyfish hunting, as well as being able to pull off the sinking of the Anshar… There are also some quality issues in this episode…

    Still, there are many good highlights in this episode… Gracies seems to have badass firepower and cool technology, not to mention that they Russian! I also liked that the Silvius had to really struggle to be able to breakthrough the siege… I find it kinda annoying though that Fam herself doesn’t need to struggle as much…

    And what pains me in this episode is about Giselle! Poor girl! T_T How can Fam just leave her like that?!?

  3. gandalf8 says:

    The “skyfish hunting” part has always bugged me too, besides the very noticeable abscence of a solid defense against Vanship attacks in the Federation fleets. It is certainly a viable tactic to be used against their ships as evidenced by Fam in this episode, so I am not satisfied that they left such a vulnerable weakness that could be easily exploited. And I cannot fathom how the heck Fam and co are gonna salvage the Anshar if it has sunk. I mean, won’t it be wrecked when it crashes down to earth? If it was still salvageable, can the Federation afford to just abandon their ships to their enemies? Can’t they salvage it back from where it crashes down? They have a lot of other ships in their fleet, right?

    Nevertheless, this was still a good episode overall. It was certainly nail biting to watch Silvinus’s fight against the Federation forces, besides getting a glimpse at the superior technology and weaponry at the disposal of the secretive Gracies forces. For me, this episode is signalling that the series is finally heading in the right direction and I find myself anxiously waiting for next week for more doses of Last Exile.

  4. goto says:

    next 2-3 episodes incoming drama between gisey and fam

    Honestly I think gisey is just being a . . .little girl getting her self all worked up and jealous of fam x milia as if she forgot the promise fam made to the king about keeping milia safe. . .what was that thing about sky pirates and ALWAYS honoring their contracts? (you know the king giving the family heriloom as payment)oh wait, all bets are off a once little girls throws hissy fits and gets her feelings hurt for the sake of *drama* and gissey just *happened* to be unable to ride the vanship with fam so save themselves from complete annihilation. I just face palmed at the scene of her crying after their asses just got SAVED, like seriously? you were just on the brink of death and the first thing you do is cry from jealousy instead of being glad you are alive?! Someone please shoot gisey now, Id rather millia take her role since she has gotten less whiny and more mature seeing as to what has happened to her over the course of the story. the impending two episodes of needless *dorama* is going to fuck up the pacing even more now. . .

  5. nymbryxion says:

    well in the first Last Exile they mentioned before that there was no concept of using Vanships for attacking big ships (instead they were used to deliver messages and scout). They only used Vanship fighters to fight against the Guild after it was demonstrated it was feasible (after the heroes inspired the Mad Thane to use smaller ships in battle).

  6. gandalf8 says:

    @nymbryxion: the problem is the setting is now on Earth, where the use of Vanships by the Sky Pirates for “Skyfish hunting” has been going on for quite some time already. I cannot believe that the Federation are not aware of that vulnerability as I believe the Sky Pirates have stolen a lot off their ships, hence the reason they set up that trap to annihilate Fam and Gisey’s band of Sky Pirates. If any off their enemies ever get it into their heads to use a fleet of Vanships each armed with those Claudia engine disablers like Fam had, the Federation fleets will surely be at a huge disadvantage.

  7. Silent Minstrel says:

    Using vanship to attack the Claudia tank is actually harder than what the anime shows. In Episode 4 Gisey mentioned she never succeed even during training.

    In the end of this episode Fam also says that this is their first success.

    So it IS a viable tactic, but not am easy one to pull off.

    The Ades battleships are equipped with small-caliber fast-firing weapon all over their body to shoot down those pesky vanships.In episode 8 several Silvius vanships are shown to be damaged after their sortie. However vespas are just too small for even those weapons to reliably shot down.

  8. lolcat says:

    yeah, ppl happy that Gracies are Russians+) Well, i myself happy as well, but my ears just hurt when i hear most of their phrases, since I’m russian. +) But i heard one of them speaking clearly ^_^

  9. valinor89 says:

    I for once liked the admiral or whatever saying they can’t loose valuable and experienced crewmembers… and they are loosing entire ships.
    By the way what is the purpose of rocket assisted vertical takeof if the first thing they do is going horizontal?

    The thing with point defense is that it is very dificult when you have manual control and nothing remotely like a computer to control it. And in anime point defense never works to stop the good guys.

  10. Guest says:

    I think one of the VAs is a native Russian speaker, but the others…at best she might’ve coached them. Was still an awesome surprise to hear it up in my Last Exile.

  11. DangerMouse says:

    I loved this episode.

    Totally agree on the Russian, it was really cool and further added to the scale of the world with an international feel.

    Perhaps the rockets got them to their target/border faster with the better propulsion.

    @valinor89: Totally agree, Sadri was great. He even upped his greatness with him caring about his crew and him and his crew saluting their ship which I loved, really added that little “classy” touch that the chivalry added on occasion in the original.

    Right gandalf8, and I think they are becoming aware of their weaknesses but change takes time, this is a massive fleet already in service. And they are in the midst of trying to outfit themselves with new anti-vanship weapons, it’ll take more time to address actual hull issues I’d imagine.

    Also perhaps they eventually could have salvaged the Anshar once it hit ground if it were in their territory however they are in extremely hostile territory (Glacias) and defending their dead ship from the Silvius with a fleet would easily bring Glacias forces since he was already keeping back most of his forces and already risking bringing in a smaller force so this ship is a relatively small loss given their fleet and huge number of ships and as he said he wants to save his men so it’s unlikely they can sit their waiting nor bring in a new fleet since they are across Glacias’ border and the ship won’t be able to fly for much longer leaking Claudia.

    Perhaps to finish off the capture off-screen maybe Dagobert from the Silvius as a real Guild engineer might be able to do something about that to prevent the Anshar from continuing to sink in a timely enough manner so as not to piss of Glacias since they may not be getting shoved out of Glacias territory quite as fast being one ship as Ades would and repair it just enough if they have some spare refined Claudia to refuel it a bit.

    Ooh, another interesting bit, since it’s Claudia Unit damage we’re talking about here this also brings up an interesting question for later as we continue to learn more about Ades (and hopefully some more Guild threads as started last time) about their level of Guild knowledge and that they may be not nearly as familiar as thought possible just because Luscinia and Alauda were in power positions (and they’re clearly keeping some things isolated since we’ve never seen them with Guild-hybrid like Alauda’s, and their battleships are “current” not even remotely even slightly “super advanced Guild”), in regards to these in the first series Anatoray and Disith generally couldn’t make them they came from the Guild and likely couldn’t repair all but basic damage (unlike the Silvana/Silvius design and it’s Guild engineer) so it may have mostly been a lost ship to them anyway.

    @goto: Gisey’s current is state is equally if not moreso about the “real war” around her and how hard she is on herself and the constant edge on which they’ve recently been in real combat and further pushed by watching the Sky Pirates getting shot down followed by worrying about her father’s ship. It was clear she was going break first from this kind of “you could die at any moment” than Fam who pushes her vulnerabilities to the back of her mind and takes action. With now both Milia and Giselle undergoing changes and/or losing their composure, hopefully it’s Fam’s turn now as we build to the mid-season climax as

    The most likely reason, like the first series, they haven’t addressed the weakness yet is that they can’t just refit and replace their entire fleet that quickly, these ships put everyone else’s battleships to shame as shown in how they’ve been able to take on every other world power so they are relatively new and the height of the “battleship era” and yet were likely created just before vanships began to be used in actual combat and probably soon before or just about when the Sky Pirates began to use vanships in a sort of early version of vanship combat (and before they had full knowledge of Glacias since they’re clearly built on isolation), they’ve been caught in the midst of the shift to a new style of combat which is why they recognize they are in no way yet prepared to take on Glacias and are in the midst of developing new weapons and likely other new countermeasures and defenses for these new tactics, likely while their engineers back home are likely in the midst of developing new ships, but things are moving fast and they’ve been caught in between like most ships in the first series that stared down the Silvana and Alex and Tatiana’s groundbreaking tactics. Glacias is in isolation and the Silvius is a new player since they don’t even know where Anatoray is yet and it’s only been 2 years since they came to Earth (plus it’s unlikely they even knew the Silvius was a carrier until she launched her hidden fighters)

  12. DangerMouse says:

    Damn that did not seem so big in the little text window….I would have split that up since I posted about several different things, sorry excuse the massive post.

  13. jzar says:

    From what little I know about ships at sea if they had to abandon ship they would also set explosive charges on board to ensure no enemy would be able to salvage her. So, unless they throw that basic premise out the window the Anshar is going not going to be useable.

    I am guessing that Fam boarded the vessel and disarmed the ship and stopped the engine power link….it was in the scene we didn’t see this episode. :)

    Any way great episode, I’m gonna have to go watch it again.

  14. gandalf8 says:

    @DangerMouse: I don’t think the Silvius are infringing into Glacies territory right now. They had crossed the border in their attempt to escape the Federation fleet, but they managed to escape towards the Grand Lake as seen when they were just about to crash. If my memory serves me right, the Grand Lake isn’t in anyone’s territory, more like the international waters in our world where no specific country has full control off. I also don’t think the Anshar sunk in Glacies teriitory, as when they started to pursue the Silvius after all their sub fleets were damaged, the Silvius had already withdrawn from Glacies territory during the commotion of the Glacies forces opening fire on the encroaching Federation fleet.

  15. cheese says:

    @goto
    Your comment about Giselle is probably as pathetic as that brain of yours. Giselle is probably one of the more mature characters in this series. She understands the gravity of war and its cost, while Fam and Milia are just two simple and THE MOST NAIVE characters ever. Fam has her ability as a pilot to support her outrageous stunts in battle, but Milia is the “little girl with nothing strong about her.” Seriously, the downfall of this episode for me was exactly how unlikely Anshar was sunk. Let’s accept that destroying the tank underneath the ship can destroy the whole ship, even though that’s also ludicrous for such a grand battleship. Then you have Fam charging in at high speed. Milia, the princess with little experience in markesmanship, pointed the gun, and HAS to hit the mark. 2 MAJOR mistakes happened. Why would anyone close their eyes when she is aiming for something that must be absolutely shot down??? Second, her inexperience, indicated by arm movements that the huge recoil was taken, still allowed her to shoot down the tank, which was exactly the hard part, as suggested earlier when Giselle commented on how she could never do that. So, if inexperience Milia can sink Anshar, why not let everybody pilot vanship and sink other battleships???
    Furthermore, Fam NEEDS Giselle as the navigator. Haven’t you realize most of the tactics require timing and knowledge? (since you have limited amount of info-gathering-instrument on a vanship) Giselle is the brain of the vanship while Fam just execute them flawlessly. For example, the last turn during the race in episode 6, Fam needed Giselle’s precise timing, and Giselle delivered. Who else can be as knowledgeable as Giselle? She even memorized almost every strategic information required? It’s even lucky that Fam returned with Milia in their “sky-fish hunting” sorty. Seriously, Milia matured??? She’s even wiling to sacrifice her self to save Silvius, not knowing it’s a trick…and just imagine how she will govern her kingdom if she did gain them back in the end of the series…she’s way too incompetent by her naive-ness. Back to Giselle, yes, she did feel jealous of Fam and Milia relationship, but only a little. She’s more grateful that both of them returned safely than she’s more jealous of them. Furthermore, she never promised to protect Milia, it was Fam and her rashness again. Plus, wouldn’t you be more concerned about your family more than some random kingdom’s business??? She’s not throwing “hissy fit,” she’s just breaking down from all the emtions from the past events. Think about all the times Giselle saved Fam and herself with her quick-decision. You, however, are the one throwing a “little girl’s fit” Go face palm yourself next time if you have something naive to comment, just like Milia.

  16. drask says:

    @cheese
    You hate Fam. We get it already. We dont need a wall of text. Normally I dont post any comments but yours are just to annoying. Giselle is not mature, she is emotionally weak. So is Millia but not as much as Giselle. Yes Giselle is smart and clever but no planner. She is good at the practical implementation of someone else’s plan. Much like a sergeant carrying out a plan made by an officer. Of almost everything they did the basic plan was almost always Fam’s. Giselle just figured out how to actually do it. In ep 1 both the first catch and Lassas was Fam´s basic plan. So was the first capture for Tatiana where Fam figured out they somehow trick the owners when she saw the uniforms. In episode 7 Fam figured out how they would escape but left the actual implementation to Giselle. Giselle herself would have never figured it out, she was panicking to much.
    Fam is foolish and naive but does not suffer from tunnel vision the way Giselle does. Fam is also stupidly fearless. As for Millia most of the maturing she did was because Fam forced her into situation the was unfamiliar with. Also seem to forget that Millia did a lot of book studying during the time Fam and Giselle where out hunting skyfish. Before she could not even read the lightcodes. Fam forced Millia to recognize her own weakness. Until now Fam has been the officer and Giselle the sergeant who figures out how to carry out the officers plan. Giselle is as dependent of Fam as Fam is of her. Actually Fam could probably manage somehow on her own. But right now Giselle is completely dependent on someone showing her the right direction. She herself is incapable of it.

  17. cheese says:

    @drask
    Thank you for putting a constructive argument. I stand corrected on several points, one of them being giving the impression I’m saying Giselle is too smart. I do agree Fam and Giselle need each other, Fam being the officer, and that Giselle is emotionally weak, which again is why I like Giselle more, since it shows a more humane side to the story. However, you’re missing my original contention. I only wrote a couple of lines about Fam and I actually like her, not hate her. BUT, I dislike Milia and her character. Tell me, how has she mature throughout the series? She has been going through hard times, but in no way has it indicated she snapped out of her naive-ness, which in fact SHOULD be the result of enduring hardships. My original contention is that Giselle is not useless, like goto said in his/her post. And I also pointed out that Milia, which he/she said is more capable than Giselle, is actually not. Explain how it’s logical that Milia sunk the battleship with her skill, and the fact she closed her eyes right before she shot…The only good thing about her is that she sure has immense luck.
    Lastly, thank you again for putting such a solid argument, disproving some of my points, but please at least stay on topic next time, since I was trying to say Giselle is not a worthless girl in the series, as goto insisted that “somebody shoot her now”
    P.S. What is wrong with putting a wall of text? What do you find annoying in that, since you also put a huge wall of text and you chose to read my comment? AND you DON’T get my point…so I guess next time I need a bigger wall of text to make it even clearer…(sarcasm)

  18. drask says:

    @cheese
    I will be jumping somewhat between different themes: Giselle is not useless. she a skilled and excellent sergeant. The best you could want. But she is not a leader.
    Milia is more mature than she was at the beginning of the series, where was a fairly arrogant princess (a product of her upbringing). Just look how she behaved towards Teddy. Does she behave this way now? Not really. On the other hand Milia is still not very mature. But she did realize her weakness. That she was powerless and did not really know much about the world. Thats one step towards maturity. Next step towards maturity is that she realized she had to do something about it. As I mentioned before studied things like light signals and other things while on Silvius. One can presume she studied things like weaknesses of Ades warships and what a navi must know. Central to this is Fam who constantly pushes Milia into new situations. Like when they went to get back her sisters glass and telling Milia the was an orphan or putting Milia into the situation where she got captured by Silvius (Dio did not help). Or pushing Milia to establishing a government in exile or lastly forcing Milia to be her navi. Fam pushes her, knowingly or not, to mature whether she wants it or not. I suspect Fam did the same thing with Giselle when they where young. Thats why she is such a good navi but also shy she is so emotionally weak. Fam is to dominant. This will probably be bad in the long run.
    As for the sinking of the Ades battleship. Remember that Fam and Giselle tried to use this tactic in ep 4 when they tried to capture the Silvius and failed miserably because Anatoray are not stupid (like Ades) and put Silvius claudia unit deep inside the ship protected by armor. Giselle also said she never succeeded getting the shot even in training. This indicates this is a known weakness in Ades warships and Giselle thought Silvius would have the same weakness. One can suspect this was not a stupid design choice by Ades but probably a compromise of some sort. Their newer battleship are big and heavy so the claudia units must work a lot which requires a lot of cooling. They did not use vanships in combat so they probably did not think it would be a problem. Remember Gracies vanships have anti ship guns so a hit is going to hurt a lot anyway. Also from Giselles prior experience the target is difficult to hit. One can rationalize it like this but is was probably just a convenient anime plot weak point.
    Basically Milia was just very very very lucky in hitting it since normally it does not seem to be a viable option. Also Silvius would have probably escaped whether they sank Ansher or not.
    I suspect th post has gotten a bit to long sorry.

  19. cheese says:

    @drask
    Thank you again for another intellectual comment. This probably will be my last comment, seeing that we’re mostly in an agreement. I completely agree that “Giselle is not useless….But she is not a leader.” And your second paragraph completely reaffirmed my contention that Milia has to be VERY lucky to get that shot. And you further provided a plausible scenario why there’s the weakness on Anshar, even though it still seemed a little ludicrous XD The only point I still do not agree on is Milia maturing. As of NOW, I will have to say Milia is still too naive. (hopefully that will change) She “might know her weakness” but she’s still not making any improvement on her character or intelligence. And I highly doubt Milia can understand anything about Ades’ weakness…Anyway I really liked this episode, despite some minor flaws. Lastly, once again, I thank you for your even longer wall of comment! XD And I hope you can see my original contention that goto is the one being annoying with his/her naive comment.

  20. kero says:

    This episode was really exciting and I loved the battle scenes and the introduction of another country and their kick ass tech.

    The downside to the episode was that Millia made the shot that brought down the battleship.
    It’s annoying that the set up such a good battle scene with very real looking tactics, and then they win because some princes with NO experience of being a navi and NO experience of shooting, manages to shoot down a battle ship WITH HER EYES CLOSED.

    I felt like flipping a table right there.

    @goto that’s all kinds of harsh. Gisey/Giselle is what,a 15yo girl suddenly sucked into this do or die battle that she never wanted to get involved with in the first place, and you think that all she’s doing is having a ‘hissy fit’.

    You chose to interpret her tears as being due to jealousy, but I would say that it’s a part of what she’s feeling, but I’d believe that she’s also relieved that Fam survived, and that she’s also crying because of the situation she’s found herself in.

    Human beings are complex, it is possible to feel more than one thing at the same time.

    ___

    Like @cheese I’m not a fan of Millia, she’s not really shown herself to be intelligent or country ruler material. She needs to sharpen up, but I’m not convinced that Last Exile is intent on making anything better out of her.

    I’d have been disappointed by the weaknesses in the main girls, if it wasn’t for the fact that Last Exile has a lot of female characters that kick ass.

    .. Where was Dio btw? he completely disappeared from the screen.

  21. Kanub says:

    Giselle can be compared to Ravie in 1st series.
    She too wasent fit for combat, and it hit her pretty hard when the fighting started.

    With everything thats been going on, it wasent a surprise to see her break down in the end.

    Fam is almost like Claus. Too blind to see and understand her feelings, and simply go with her own ideas.
    Honestly, Fam shoulda been made a little bit more responsible.

    Still, very good episode. Music fit in perfectly, and cant wait to see more of them russian pilots!

  22. kero says:

    @kanub

    It feels like a travesty to compare Fam to Claus, from what I remember, their characters are very different.

    I keep waiting for the moment where I’ll warm up to Fame, Gonzo! throw me a bone here!

  23. Anon says:

    Lol, “authentic”, the pronunciation and accent and grammar was so bad that I didn’t realize it was Russian right until the end of the opening. This is not 2001, it’s not that hard to dig up some native Russian speakers to sho-in in Japan. Next time they ought to check the local taverns in Hokkaido ports.

  24. WatcherZero says:

    Late/early post second world war they did develop rocket powered interceptors, the idea was they would quickly get off the ground and to altitude ready to meet incoming aircraft in a very short time then dump the expended rockets for better maneoverability. They were very quickly superceded when lighter/more powerful jet engines were developed but the same idea persists, in aerial combat the high ground is very important and shaving a few minutes getting to it before the incoming hostiles hit you is still important.

    Also im thinking Giselle/Fam is Ravie/Claus clones.

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CHANGE USERNAME
Kaiser-Eoghan
*those
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hearing these , I find myself much more tolerant of anime voice acting even if the dub might only be okay.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its actually less of a sync issue, as I'm talking about 60s dubs , alot of people think the voices in old anime English dubs from the 90s are dated, but the old sixties kungfu and western dubs are shocking, far worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't mind sometimes satirical dubbing like on tiger lily , dialectics break bricks and kung pow however.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And those can be difficult to acquire sometimes in Italian or Chinese.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Live action films, this is especially annoying sometimes because I love Spaghetti westerns and Chinese martial arts films and old Italian cop thrillers.
Anonymous2137430
@Kaiser-Eoghan Are you referring to foreign animated films of foreign live action films because dubbing live action is a different beast as I'm sure you're aware. The idiosyncratic nature of watching moves and facial expressions not properly match voices really pulls the viewer out of the experience
SuperWooper
LoGH is airing a special next week because of scheduling delays, so that's one less thing to do.
AidanAK47
Well to those whom it might concern, expect my posts to be later than usual this week. Work is hell at the moment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have to say, this is probably a bit hypocritical, but while I enjoy dubs of anime I really really can't stand dubs of foreign films.
Lenlo
Simo Hayha would make a pretty crazy Archer.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine a fate strange fake adaptation will materialize eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But everyone seems to want that Finnish sniper as a Fate servant .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still no Mao, still mad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I have lost track of the historical characters in the fate lineup.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, to expand on that point the following historical figures are now female: Nero Claudius, Leonardo da Vinci, Frankenstein's Monster, Xuanzang, Jing Ke, Quetzalcoatl, Minamoto no Yoshitsune, Miyamoto Musashi, Okita Souji and many more to come.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I find it's an enjoyable watch though flawed. If you can get past some odd fanservice around the first ten episodes then I say it's worth watching.
Anonymous2133468
So i was thinking if i start watching, darling in the franxx, is worth it? or is just another 6/10 anime?
Lenlo
God damnit. Why Nasu. Just why.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, that ain't even Lewd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In all seriousness its ridiculous, the Japanese will make a cute/moe girl out of anything.
AidanAK47
....Should I also mention that Francis Drake is a big boobed pirate queen?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Posting lewd images on a respectable chatbox.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, But none of these characters are in the anime adaptions. Well besides Jack and Saber.
Lenlo
Aidan, all this conversation did was prove that my decision to only ever watch the Ufotable adaptions was the correct decision.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, you can blame Extella for the Attlia the Hun thing. I wasn't too fond of it myself. Also should mention Attila is female as well.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6414/528599445b739909c02993cfdbfc9f277d088cf2_hq.jpg
AidanAK47
Also Masky I will be the first to admit to the ridiculous aspects of the Fate Franchise but do take note that you are commenting on something you know literally nothing about. Which is the very definition of ignorance and is quite annoying. Fate/Zero nails the themes it's going for. So go watch Fate/Zero, come back and apologize.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Give it time. Genghis is getting in there eventually with Grand Order. We just had Anastasia and Salieri introduced after all. And it's not as if this story introduces Servants willy nilly, they need actual story purpose. Genghis Khan wouldn't have fit the Narrative that Fate/Zero was going for.
Lenlo
Wait Attila is an Alien and Edison is a Lion? God damnit Fate. Why are you doing this to me. I was already annoyed at your treatment of Musashi
Masky
(aliens existing in the show is good example of that missing on themes part xP)
Masky
*most successful conqueror
Masky
Honestly was just amused most conqueror of all time not being featured in the show :D But wait, whats this about aliens?
AidanAK47
Anyway the important thing to take into account is that in the Fate universe, King Arthur is a woman, Attila the Hun is an Alien, Thomas Edison is a lion and Jack the Ripper is a little girl in a dominatrix outfit. Any questions?
AidanAK47
And while you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes, it does leave you ignorant of how that show handles those ideas and themes.
AidanAK47
As for the Historical Alexander, he wasn't given the title of King of Couquerors. Fate/Zeros interpretation of him was. As generally accurate Fates interpretation of Servents history can be, they can make changes to suit the narrative.
AidanAK47
In that Regard Alexander was doing the conquest thing before Ghengus did. Ghengus likely has some other title. Hell he may only have the title because public consciousness was is more familiar with Alexander than Ghengus.
AidanAK47
Yeah, looking it up seems the King Title lost quite a lot of meaning in the Nasuverse. Though the King Title is rather flimsy. I mean Arthur is the King of Knights cause of the Knights of the round table. Gil is king of heroes because his tale was the first Heroic myth.
Lenlo
I think Alexander was just the first one they thought of, and they couldnt retroactively give it to someone else.

That said, Broskander deserves it <3
Masky
(And no, you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes of it.)
Masky
(just to note in case I need to note, I do tend to do at least cursory research when I make comments on stuff I don't watch)
Masky
That first part is semantics as Fate gives title "King" to historical figures who weren't kings already :D Also, you can make that argument about historical Alexander the Great? Since that seriously sounds like kind of weak reason.
AidanAK47
Also sees Rider as deserving of title of "King of Conquerors" because that which he strives to conquer most is not lands or material wealth, but the hearts of people, the toughest conquest that can be undertaken by anyone.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Ghengis Khan wasn't a king. He was a Khan.
Lenlo
Ghengis is always a Rider in my mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, Ghengis would be an appropriate beserker servant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Masky: I know, it feels so wrong I'm still mad I can't summon Karl Marx or Stalin.
Masky
So wait, Fate series is about historical figures with super powers, but "King of Conquerors" title isn't given to Ghengis Khan? :D Seriously? Thats just so wrong
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't feel any point in finishing it, it feels like something that I'd just randomly drop , not because its a bad show, but because I got my fill of it.
AidanAK47
I am actually going to drop blogging it.
AidanAK47
@Sash, indeed. I have been watching it but not blogging it for the last few episodes because it just hasn't givne me anything to say. I don't think it's a bad show but I have pointed out the flaws and strengths of it already so there is truly nothing more to say on it.
Sash
I think wotakoi is starting to feel repetitive..
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware Shana and Batman Ninja Harelequinn are both voiced by Rie kugimiya.
Lenlo
I did. It was... It was a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Did you end up watching Batman ninja by the way?
Lenlo
Music is great, yeah. When the music is on point, everything goes up. Everytime the sync the fight/punches to the music I just get hyped. Like the rotating shot with Aragaki or the first fight in episode 1.
Lenlo
Ill do my best to be clearer in the future on that front. Yeah, I dont mind twists like this. Makes the inevitable Mikio fight, narratively, even better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel the music does alot of the lifting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, so that was it.
Lenlo
Sorry if I never made that clear.
Lenlo
I would rather have fewer, amazing, fights than a lot of low-quality fights. This is a one cour show, the more meaning/impact they can give each fight the better.

Like Aragaki, narratively, was great. Loved it. Its just in animation/choreography that it falls flat.
Lenlo
Im disappointed with the animation of the fights. Narratively, I think they are quite good.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*disappointed with the fights in past episodes
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Pretty much what I said I thought of the episode. Although I was surprised how took the episodes ending, I expected you to see it as a slap in the face after being disappointed with the fights.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, I thought Megalo Box did something unique this episode. I wasn't expecting Joe to *not* fight. And the Mikio/Yukiko proxy war is an interesting character motivation. Im betting Yukiko will get Joe a full citizenship, effectively getting her on his side.
Lenlo
I wish I was physically capable of watching Megalo Box without thinking of Hajime no Ippo. I really do. But everytime I watch it, it makes me want to watch Ippo again to.
Anonymous2120908
I watched some more of the Chimera family chinese anime. (Wasn't aware it was monthly released). And geez, I like the concept, the background art is very pretty and contrasts with settings that have become tired in other anime. Yet sadly the animation and script are WEAK. I haven't grasped the quality of what's expected of these types of production but I want to believe, they're trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not much in the way of action in megalobox this week, but I did like the focus on Yukkiko getting a small character moment and then the big moment at episodes end .
AidanAK47
@Anon, That's some lazy ass trolling buddy. Should have stopped before the hashtags.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm even sort of looking forward to supposedly less respectable stuff like Goblin slayer and happy sugar life.
Vonter
Also E3 is almost here. And I can't wait. I think Nintendo will have a good show considering they're revealing the new Smash with a tournament. There's rumors of the new game by Retro Studios (Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong) and maybe they'll reveal something about how Pokemon will be on the Switch.
Vonter
Also there's always the chance of something new being discovered. Not everything needs expectations behind. Sometimes great things come out of nowhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So yes, there are some at least decent shows coming out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Muh Baki, Muh Bananna fish, muh made in abyss season 2, muh Vinland.
Anonymous2119906
The rest of this year looks like shit for anime and 2019 doesn't look great either #fuckmoe #makeanimegreatagain
Anonymous2119214
@Kaiser yeah it happened in half the amount of eps this time around for steins gate 0; which i expected considering there's a lot of ground to cover
Anonymous2119106
@Supermario Something like Fate or the LOTR films are a different case. I get where you're coming from about your preference, but I'm arguing that if a large story is going to be split into 3 films, it helps that the 3 films feel cleanly cut. Infinity war, even though we know there's a second part to the story, feels like it has that cohesive narrative structure with a beginning, middle, and end
Anonymous2119106
@Super Mario yea but the marvel movies are a different situation so i don't think the comparison is as appropriate. Marvel movies are "episodic" in nature rather than a continuous narrative. The films are largely isolated stories that are happening in a similar universe that only happen to "congeal" narratively because of a few overarching details shared between films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I remember when the original series suddenly shifted and got going and it was a really depressing episode.
Lenlo
Oh baby. The storm has finally come in Steins;Gate. Let the true suffering commence
SuperMario
@anon2118276: that's why I don't like LoTR trilogy. It's still a whole body chopped up in 3 parts, despite how clean the cut is. Whereas for me it works better if it was like a branch in a tree. The Marvel movies (despite my disinterest on those) are a good example of this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I did feel some of this weeks steins gate felt fillery, I do like see these characters interact and given the episodes conclusion, this episode acted as a calm before the storm.
Lenlo
Ill agree with you on King Kong. As for the Ralph Bakshi LotR, I have. I am still to this day impressed by the overlay of 2D art onto real/overexposed footage. It makes for shockingly fluid animation in places and has its own distinct style
Anonymous2118208
@Lenlo - Have you watched the old Ralph Bakshi adaptation of the first two books? It's uneven, but it's interesting comparing and contrasting certain decisions. As good as Peter Jackson is, I feel he makes very longwinded films, I like his version of King Kong a lot, but it is too long.
Anonymous2118276
@supermario i disagree; the point is that even though the LOTH films have cliffhanger endings, they still feel like fils. they have a defined first second and third act with well paced tension and release throughout them. They follow a storytelling macrostructure necessary for films to feel like cohesive narratives even if they are to end on a cliffhanger
Lenlo
I quite liked the individual LOTR movie just fyi
Vonter
Marvel surprisingly has kept their movies simple enough, that while you might miss details nowadays, you can tell what's happening.
Vonter
Another bad case is like with Assassin's Creed, which like Lost, just tried to tease a lot of things, then it grew tired of trying to piece them together and let the last games work more standalone, with little hints of a larger lore.
Vonter
Metroid does both, it has a standalone story and a hint to what a sequel might bring. Though that hint rarely matters by the time the new game is released.
Vonter
@SuperMario - Some videogames trilogies also do that. Gears of War and God of War had good standalone beginnings but by the second game they put cliffhanging endings. Kingdom Hearts does that and I expect 3 to also do it. Megaman Legends and Half Life had incomplete stories, which might be the worse case in regards to trying to make a continuous story.
SuperMario
It ruins the appetite
SuperMario
I actually think Lord of the Rings' trilogy is a bad example to follow. These films are meant to be viewed as a whole, so each film doesn't hold much as an individual story. I just can't digest films that have "to be continued" sign at the end. Imagine having a first course meal and then have to wait for few days for second course
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the current topic, I would be well for the production of a long running, ambitious ova series.
Anonymous2116425
then again, i don't take too much issue with these films feeling like movie-sized eps...the wait just sucks is all
Anonymous2116425
clearly the films need each other to tell the whole story, yet they can be taken for what they are in isolation as well
Anonymous2116425
I don't mind the trilogy trend at all; like Aidan said, when everything is said and done, all the films will be available to watch. I just think a stronger attempt should be made to make them feel like complete films. Something like the lord of the rings trilogy is a great example of how to do this
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am in full confidence that neither I nor Miura will survive to the end of berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course maybe they won't have a future , think about it that way, then they'd never see it, life has that weird way of being unpredictable like that =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
You can always rewatch them just before watching the one after.
AidanAK47
Of course not. But that's the thing. The wait is only a temporary problem. Anyone in the future will have all movies ready to view.
SuperMario
So it's best to wait for another 2 years to watch Heaven's Feel? Hell NOT
AidanAK47
When all the movies come out though you can basically barrel through it like a TV series.
SuperMario
Dangit, it's me Mario
Anonymous2115918
I still don't know if I like this trilogy trend. We've had a fair bun h of those in recent years (Berserk Golden Age, Madoka, even Kizumonogatari). I guess doing it that way, they'd make much more profits, and we have higher production values, but the wait is way too long and I don't think it works as movie-format
Kaiser-Eoghan
One of the very rare times where self-awareness works.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can be nice and say of course Ryan Reynolds+ violence, comic was funnier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But I'm sure if you think it over, the first deadpool was trapped in origin story mode, as an advantage, the sequel, is probably free of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Deadpool 2 had John Wicks director, which at the least means something in terms of action direction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: There was a whole run of deadpool issues called Cable and deadpool, which I suppose that pairing together gets the best out of the character.
AidanAK47
Seen Deadpool 2 tonight and I have difficultly deciding if it's better or worse than Deadpool 1. Still it's quite fun and I enjoyed it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I feel somewhat similar in regards to Franxx. When this series finishes I won't be singing high praises for it. Yet I do feel that it's worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Now I get ya. Yeah I understand that. I might even feel the same if I didn't already know the story from the VN.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The second film seems to be in cinema this year but we won't get it until it hits blu-ray.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: As I expected, I am disappointed that they have held back . And you might just be right about Castrollop/Caligula/Nero, when I originally attempted to watch the show years ago, that was the episode I stopped on.
KTravlos
Yang really is stealing the show this time. But I wanted the "Alcohol is mankind's oldest friend" rant. I need it.
KTravlos
my expectation is that they will take this to the Battle of Armistar, and then the films will cover the dual civil wars etc.
KTravlos
...CASTROP REBELLION! Why the hell sacrifice an episode to the most useless and bad part of the original! I hated that episode. Well let us see if they can give it a better twist this time around.
KTravlos
The Iserlohn arc at LGOGH:NT was ok. I liked how they presented the preparations. I like the new Murai face. The music was quite good. But they did tone the violence. I expected Walter to stab the imperial officer in the neck. They have toned down the violence a lot. And I missed Seeckts "Long live the Empire" death. That said it was not bad, and I think in general it was good adaption. But....
Anonymous2115268
for example, I think Darling in the franxx is pretty average, but that's not because i think it doesn't have cool shit in it or things that make it appealing; I just find that what the show tries to achieve is not that stupendous or worth lauding with praise. As a result, the flaws stick out that much more to me
Anonymous2115268
@Lenlo and that's pretty much how i felt. Everything is subject to criticism; hell i criticize my most favorite things in the world because i know they're not perfect. I evaluate art and media on whether what it achieves overshadows the flaws and to what degree. Which i think is the best way to approach criticism
Lenlo
I want to repeat though, Heavens Feel wasn't bad. I know some people take any criticism to mean I hated it, but I actually quite enjoyed it. I just think ill appreciate/enjoy it more once the other 2 movies are also out.
Lenlo
@Anon, you nailed it. I couldnt describe it, but what you said /feels/ right.

And Aidan, I loved Lindsay Ellis's videos on the whole Hobbit debacle. A shame, cause the original Lord of the Rings is a landmark in film for me.
Amagi
@Aidan: Do we know if the next HF movie will be finished this year?
Amagi
I love how and how often they say "Fujimi no Sugimoto" in Golden Kamuy. It's pretty hype for some reason, especially when it's said by his enemies.
Anonymous2114206
yea. heaven's feel is nothing like the situation with peter jackson's hobbit; this story needs this many movies and that large runtime. The thing with these heavens feel films that is probably bothering lenlo is that they feel like very long episodes and that particularly the first film felt like a giant prologue rather than a film with a beginning, middle, and end
AidanAK47
And just to make it clear, Heavens Feel needs at least three movies to cover the entire story. It's too big for one movie.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I ain't unhappy about it though. Sucks that I need to wait so long for each movie but there is higher production values as a result. Though in regards to the Hobbit I recommend watching Lindseys Eillis videos on it. As it not only talks about how it screwed the Hobbit but also how the movies screwed New Zealand.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I could never immerse myself in Tolkienistic world building.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Man, the hobbit, lord of the rings and that shit king kong film, he sold out so much , this was the man who gave me Heavenly creatures , Braindead and Feebles.
Lenlo
It is very beautiful indeed. And Aidan, that Hobbit metaphor made me weep for you. I hated what happened to the Hobbit
Anonymous2112805
other than that; HF is a very beautiful looking film; ufotable has improved with their digital compositions...holy crap
Anonymous2112805
heaven's feel seems to be embracing its more horrific elements. Aside from that, watching this film made me realize how much i prefer rin over the rest of the girls; kinda wish we got to spend a bit more time understanding Sakura's psyche in the film
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: This was part of some film fest thing, ended up missing big fish Begonia though, that Chinese animated thing =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: they'd invited him to introduce the flick.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Had this really unexpected run in, in my nearest arthouse cinema, seeing some film about the Soviet space program , I bump into this eastern European guy, assume he's an audience member, awkwardly say something in Russian to him, turns out he's the Russian federation ambassador to Ireland.
AidanAK47
It's sort of the hobbit situation where they chopped one book into three. Expect here we aren't getting extra fluff to pad things out. Well there are extra scenes but they are actually relevant.
Point is that in it's orignal form there are no stopping points here were you need to wait a year to continue. It was a straight story from start to finish.
AidanAK47
Well Fate is essentially the tutorial section that introduces most of the concepts and whatnot. But even then some of the things here are explained later in Heaven's Feel. Cause yeah, not only is the Fate/Stay Night VN not supposed to be split up into three seperate things, the routes aren't supposed to be split into movies either.
Lenlo
Im only familiar with the UBW route, cause Ufotable
Lenlo
I see.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, In a way there is. Heaven's Feel was originally meant to be experience after the Fate and UBW routes of the VN. That the thing Fate/Stay Night has struggled with. It's not meant to be split up into three like this. It's originally supposed to be three parts of a whole. Each route complementing another.
Nayrael
And so am I
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Its like....sometimes I actually want to be able to like something I end up not liking, knowing I am the problem and not the show.
Anonymous2110797
Spoiler alaert: anime is trash
Lenlo
I can understand that. I cant stand Clannad, so everytime I ask for a decent romance and it gets recommended I die alittle inside.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While thats very true that not everyone agreeing does make things more interesting, at the same time theres some sense of feeling left out when not understanding the appeal of something extremely well loved.
Lenlo
Also @Maskey +1. If everyone agreed with each other, it would be boring. I love hearing what other people think on stuff.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, give Ippo a try. It is one of the longest running and best sports anime/manga ever made. I sincerely believe this. That said, Megalo Box isnt bad. I still enjoy it. Ive just seen boxing done better.
Lenlo
It wasnt a bad movie. It just felt like it had a lot going on. Like Gil had a 30 sec clip, I don't really understand what the ribbon monster is but I suspect its the grail, and the new Assassin pulling an Alien, while cool, came out of left field. Like, once I just accepted it and moved on it was a fun movie. It just felt like there was a base of knowledge I needed but didnt have.
Masky
Eh, its okay to not like something that someone else likes. I disagree rather often with blog writers' opinions here but I still enjoy reading their opinions
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Featured Posts

Megalo Box – 7 [The Road to Death]

Hello everyone, and welcome to the most surprising episode of Megalo Box yet. This week we have family drama, Joe’s declining health and a shocker of an ending. Lets jump in! So starting from the top, lets talk about this ending. I never thought Megalo Box would pull something like this, with its limited number […]

Hinamatsuri – 07 [Anzu Is a Greeter Now]

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