Posted by psgels on 23 December 2011 with categories: Mawaru Penguin Drum

The point where I realized what the Penguin Drum was came at the beginning of this episode, in which we saw the caged Shouma and Kanba, and Kanba found the apple in his cage. There, it all made sense: Kanba would share the apple, and they both probably would have died if that apple wasn’t there, making their lives even more fragile than Himari’s. At first I thought that those apples were a symbol for Ringo, but the way it kept being used in the second half just didn’t add up to that. It still remains interesting that at the beginning of the show, the penguin hat sent the brothers to Ringo of all people. But in any case, it remains very cruel what this implies: in order to save Himari, the lives of Shouma and Kanba were needed.

And it is as I hoped: this ending really is amazing. The story came together wonderfully. The characters reached their catharsis. It all fitted really well. It’s not like all questions were answered, but in this case I believe that this doesn’t matter much. This show answered enough things and the rest is just up to our imagination. There is more than enough room to fill in the blanks. This series relies really heavily on symbolism and the surreal to paint its story anyway. What this show is in essence is a character study. And on that, it really delivered.

Overall, this show just completely dominated as my favorite series for the past half year. It was one heck of a step above all other shows that aired. Now that it’s finished, can I say that I like it better than Utena? To that, I unfortunately have to say no: this series is amazing, but I still like Utena better. It just as more fresh, it had better character development, it could take more time to show off its cast. And even then, Penguin Drum still remains as one of the best two shows of the year. I’m not yet sure which one is the best, but I’ll get to that in my 2011 summary.
Rating: *** (Awesome)

75 Responses

  1. Perrin4869 says:

    Complete mindfuck indeed

  2. Rah says:

    I liked! *o*

  3. djrunn3r says:

    Quite incredible.

  4. hikari says:

    OMG….the ending make me tearful…damn Ikuhara!! But, still a beautiful ending. I loved it^_^ This has been such a ride, just wonderful!!>_<

  5. soppixo says:

    On one hand there is this part of me going “YOU HAVEN’T ANSWERED ANYTHING DAMNIT IKUHARA” on the other hand this ep is pretty much Ikuhara telling me that questions are meaningless in the face of the message he wants to send. Beautiful ending but COME ON!!! This is just so excruciating!!!

    • Pafiume says:

      AH-GREED. Agreed. So many answers that’ll never be gotten.

      I’ve enjoyed the series well enough to this episode, and I did enjoy the end of the episode, the epilogue (up until the walking into the stars). But before that it was a lot of me going “what the fuck is this” and laughing. Super overdramatic. Not necessarily bad. But. I’m not super happy with it. But it’s not my story. I’ll just have to move on because I know I’m not going to watch it again to try and figure shit out and make up what I don’t understand or isn’t answered. The lack of time spent on shit makes me angry though. I mean what was up with Mario? Maybe I will go watch Masako’s episode again. Or read someone explaining it.

  6. Scorcher says:

    Seriously WTF ending…
    Will have to watch at least 3 more times…

  7. rufe says:

    Wait….What? It was a pretty cute ending, but I’m confused as hell.

  8. Stuff says:

    One of the best shows ive seen in a while.

    The ending is truly bittersweet. All the sibling wanted was to stay together, but I guess fate wont allow them to :/. At least everybody is happy and alive.

    This show deserves a better score than anohana, just saying ;)

  9. Stuff says:

    well, I guess shouma and kanba arent quite alive?… but whatever.

    Also, I didnt cry throughout the episode, but when himari found that note, damn, that got to me.

  10. kurini says:

    I don’t want an ending like this! Shouma and Kanba are now like separated from everyone. I wanted to see Ringo and Shouma marrying, having kids etc… I still don’t get many things, I don’t get what was metaphorized and what actuallt what happened… But this episode was beautiful! Still..ugh.

  11. rufe says:

    So…where did Shouma get the fruit that he gave to Himari? Is that the half of his penguindrum that vaporized?

    Also, the person of destiny thing…does that get canceled out when they change destiny trains, or is it that Kanba and Shouma just ended up together? What about the Ringo and Himari aspect…

    I didn’t realize it was allowed to transfer the payment for Momoka’s diary.

    Is Momoka=Mario?

    What happened to Himari and HHH’s history?

    So…many…questions

  12. kevin says:

    What utter crap. Love you are all like “Not everything needs to be answered HUR HUR!!!”

    Are you dumbasses? The entire series led to fucking nothing. What a pathetic pathetic man Ikuhara is.

    • Keira says:

      Dear Kevin, I wish to remain silent but your attitude pasts the level of irritating and becomes disgusting itself. The pathetic man is not Ikuhara. The pathetic man is you, mister, who acts like an atention whore and insults everyone that have a different opinion than you.

      • Anon says:

        I’m not saying that I agree with either of you (because I literally sit in the middle here – Penguindrum was good, but not as good as what people are saying), but the last statement in your post also applies to yourself. You are insulting someone who has a different opinion than you. Just thought I’d throw that out there.

        • Renn says:

          I’d agree, but Kevin did call half this board a bunch of dumbasses. Plus, he has a history on this site of ripping on PD fans. Personally think he’s a closet fan. :P

          On topic, I liked (didn’t love) the finale. Wish it hadn’t been an Utena redux, but there was emotional closure.

        • Keira says:

          Well, I’m sorry for being impolite, but after all the trollish thing he’s done, I think he’s kinda deserve it.

          • wendeego says:

            Hey did anybody notice that in on a previous post, an Anon responded directly to somebody who dissed kevin by turning it directly back on that person?

            i.e. post on episode 22, by Anon: “Kevin may have written the show off without as much as whiff of intellectual justification, but he was not the first one to throw around ad hominem in this thread. That distinction goes to you.”

            The last thing I want to do is label a living, breathing human being a sock puppet, because that would be unconscionable. But I do think it’s a little suspicious that history is repeating itself here, unless a man/woman named Anon lurks around this blog and occasionally defends kevin from ad hominem attacks.

            Anyway an enormous apology to Anon if I’m in the wrong, but in any case, kevin’s still doing a pretty good job here in trolling everybody. He’s still got it! So that’s nice.

    • Alec says:

      So Kevin…What brings you here?

    • Machi says:

      I love how you insult peoples intellect for liking this show without actually trying to piece together what the show had already resolved prior to this episode that DOES answer relevant questions.

      Ringo: Lets face it for most part after Shouma saves her and Yuri points out her feelings for him her story has been pretty much resolved and has been relegated to simple emotional support to Himari as well as being a love interest to Shouma. This is especially obvious with her lack of screen time once she loses the diary.

      Yuri & Tabuki: Pretty much resolved when Tabuki found the dead body of the parents and Yuri came looking for him. Its clear both no longer had any intentions to pursue what they initially schemed and would clearly start a real family.

      Natsume: Well I don’t think I even need to explain that she’s had her resolution, as well as an apt background like all the other characters. So all plot points related to her are pretty much resolved.

      Sanetoshi & Momoka: We figured they were both pulling the strings it was only a matter of how they were doing it, and we’ve had the previous episode as well as this one answer it. They’re not as important as the previous characters mentioned and they are supposed to be an enigma, clearly neither are human at this point. However, what I would like to add at least is that its clear now why Momoka & Sanetoshi approached the siblings, both using Himari as the prize so to speak, given that its only the siblings who could resume what the parents in the past had done since Momoka was only able to halt it to an extent. It’s clear that by this episode both sides had done their best to try and convince/manipulate the siblings to following their cause – either side would still have offered Himari a second chance but between the costs of many lives or just the two of them.

      Finally, I would say that this episode resolves the whole Takakura siblings as a whole. They were definitely used by both sides but in the end they made their choice despite how sad it is. I don’t really see any non-relevant questions unanswered just secondary/minor ones like ‘What was Mario’s side like?’ or ‘What about Himari and the Double H?’ which I don’t think is really THAT necessary to answer since its more of a bonus more than anything.

    • zo says:

      I bet you’re one of those guys who watches dumb moe shows, stupid shows like Naruto and pseudo-philosophical shows that think they are extremely profound but in reality are just pretentious because they make you feel smarter.

  13. Kim says:

    The series wasn’t perfect but most of the important things were explained. It all comes back to Night on the Galactic Railroad. This was definitely the best ending of the year. I am definitely more than satisfied.

    • manlyflower says:

      Yeah I can’t believe I didnt notice it sooner, but when I saw the destination change to the scorpion’s fire, I was like, oh my god. And referencing Kenji at the end too.

      • Puran says:

        Can you explain what the scorpion’s fire symbolizes for those who haven’t read/watched Night on Galactic Railroad?

        • akitoyo says:

          Scorpion’s fire, from what I remember, is a little inserted story in Night on Galactic Railroad. It went something like this.

          There was a scorpion that lived in a field. It ate many creatures in order to live, but when a ferret (i think it was a ferret…weasel? fox?) tries to eat it, the scorpion runs away in desperation and falls into a well. Inside the well, while he is drowning, the scorpion realizes that his life is going to end easily, and most importantly, meaninglessly. If he just had been eaten by the ferret, like how those creatures were eaten by scorpion, the ferret would live longer and his life would be part of the circle of life mean something. He then prays to god and asks god to use his body for the good others. The scorpion then realizes that his body begins to burn, and that fire is still burning in the skies to this day, lighting up the dark for others.

          It went something like that. It’s a story about self sacrifice from what I can tell.

          • manlyflower says:

            Yeah, it’s kinda a story based on astronomical bodies, cause Kenji loved space, which also explains all of the pictures of space. His work provides a lot of symbolism not only for this work but a lot of other Japanese pieces of fiction. An interesting quote I found…

            “Apples were a favorite food of author Miyazawa Kenji, and they appear in many of his works… To Kenji, apples were connected to his image of the universe. This was because the universe that includes our galaxy is also round like an apple. So when you hold an apple in your hand, you’re holding the entire universe in the palm of your hand.

            “According to the author, the seeds of an apple were comparable to the worlds we live in from day to day. The fruit of the apple reflects the hugeness of the universe outside ourselves. Just like there’s a world outside the apple’s skin, the universe doesn’t end at its own edge either. Outside of our own universe, there’s something even bigger surrounding it. No doubt, there’s another dimension of a higher order expanding outside our universe, that can’t be contained by our three-dimensional rules.”

            You guys should read his work, there is always symbolism to be found ;D

  14. PL says:

    Ugh, what the hell?
    What message?
    All I saw was a Downer ending.
    Are the siblings actually alive? could just be spirits for all i know.
    The ending would be a lot better if they answered more questions.
    It’s all so vague.
    So, so vague.
    Granted, the ending somewhat fits, but it feels incomplete.
    *sigh*
    Confusing from ep.5…

  15. Engix says:

    Really good episode in my opinion, but i feel like something about the ending was missing. I know that this is not your generic anime but i was really hoping for a happy ending.

    It got to me when I learned that Natsume,Himari, and Ringo all forgot about Kanba and Shoma.
    Truthfully this episode let me mad,sad, and satisfed somehow satisfied.

    Though it wasnt episode the series had, or ending any series has had, I still found this episode to be good like I said

  16. Addictd says:

    This episode…disappointing. No answers, and we’re never gonna get em.

  17. Synkronized says:

    To me the big issue in the series was how children get abandoned, looks at what happens to them, the consequences of their fate on others and finally what it takes to change “fate”.

    Fate – The train metaphors show how people tend to be stuck on a specific path in life. And it actually takes a jarring event to shift them on a different track; a new path in life. The use of burning and apples represents the sacrifice often needed to jar someone out of the direction, the fate, they were headed.

    As an adopted child I can relate to the notion of sacrifice expressed through Momoka the most, and others like Shouma. That most of the core cast needed to be saved at one point. That in order to actually be saved, people from the outside have to make a sacrifice. Not spontaneous combustion which could be an allusion to a financial or some other sacrifice. Like my parents who never had a biological child of their own and had to pay a lot of money to get me here. If they didn’t save me I would’ve been sent to the Child Grinder, which from my perspective just represents all the awful things that happens to societies abandoned children.

    The characters in the story represent a shit tons of different sorts of kids abandoned by society.

    Ringo – The child of an over worked single mother and a “franchise” father. While the dad technically never abandoned her, the new woman and child he was with alludes to how many dad’s will abandon one family that “doesn’t work out” and start an entirely new one, leaving the mother and child to suffer.

    Yuri – Represents a victim of child abuse.

    Teacher guy w/e his name is – Represents a kid who failed to live up to his parent’s lofty standards.

    Shouma – His parent’s abandoned him for the sake of some ideal.

    Himari – A straight up unwanted and abandoned child.

    Kanba represented the resentment of doing anything to protect those close to him at whatever the cost to those on the outside. He also symbollized the resentment and bitterness that led to the insider vs outsider, us vs them, mentality through what happened to him and his family.

    The terrorist allusions represent how people disgusted with this world often lash out at innocents because the perpetrators are much harder to single out and punish. The pink haired dude represents this as a curse or whatever. That nebulous anger and rage that has no outlet and eventually causes only more grief in the end.

    Finally Ringo and Himari represent the woman, girl, female issue. That in this world, girls often get it the worst, since most people are more tolerable of keeping male children. The fact that Ringo and Himari were the ones that survived, strikes at this issue.

    ** I can’t believe I wrote this the day I finished my finals. I must have had a mental breakdown along the way haha.

    • lialiakicks says:

      Awesome observations! I really enjoyed reading your post. :)

    • ZJ says:

      Yeah I agree. What an amazing post!! I’m going to save this somewhere to refer to when I try and explain the purpose of this show to my friend. Wow

      The ending def. left alot of unanswered questions, especially the whole Shoma meeting Kanba in a caged box. What parts of this episode (and show at large) were symbolism and what parts actually happened, now that’s something I’d like to know. LOL

      But all in all dear God did I LOVE penguindrum to pieces. It just captivated me from that first episode and I’m happy to say that this is my absolute favorite non-shounen show ever. (As far as shounen go that award would have to go to One Piece followed by Fullmetal Alchemist).

      A big thanks to the creators of Penguindrum! I sleep happy tonight =D

      • larkspur says:

        I think that Shoma and Kanba meeting in their boxes symbolized what happened between them when the Tatakuras first took Kanba in.

        Shoma was trapped in a box. He was being raised in a cult, and if he were left alone there, he would have become brainwashed and dead inside. But then Kanba arrived. He too was stuck in the cult. The boys could have suffered alone, but instead they decided to truly accept one another as brothers, and share fates.

        Since Shoma’s fate was always to be tied to the crimes of the Takakuras, that became Kanba’s fate as well, and he was sucked into the organization. But that wasn’t a sad thing! He was always fated to die. Because of everything that happened, he at least has his brother with him in the afterlife.

        Since Kanba’s fate was to sacrifice himself for the one he loved, that became Shoma’s fate as well, and he ended up dying for Ringo. But that wasn’t a sad thing! Better to burn for love than to freeze in a cage.

  18. chocobunny says:

    Oh god. I have to say I was satisfied yet dissatisfied with the ending at the same time. It really broke my heart when I realized no one remembered Kanba and Shoma.

  19. Scruffy says:

    O god .. that was so beautiful and painful at the same time. I figured that 2 of the 4 siblings were going to ‘dissapear’ (I thought that there was going to be some form of merger) but that ending, with the way Shouma told Ringo that he loved her was heart wrenching. The worst thing is that she won’t even remember him, at least not clearly.

    It does seem that Yuri and Tabuki remember the fate change so at least they have not been completely forgotten.

  20. wendeego says:

    The ending of this show was pretty much the ending that I didn’t want, the ending that I did want and the ending I didn’t even know I wanted, all at once.

    I think I’m going to need a couple more days to parse that. Wow.

  21. Snowolf says:

    It was definitely a confusing ending- I need to go back and properly look at everything (I do in aspect, agree with thoughts here) but god, that was fucking devastating (emotionally). I won’t lie; it was definitely rushed, but considering that this show was much more thematically based than plot based, I don’t really have that many problems. Overall, I have to argue that MPD was perhaps the best show to come out this year despite this confusing ending and some little sloppy mistakes here and there; it’s been a wonderful ride, and I’m sorely going to miss waking up to a Penguindrum thursday. :(

  22. Puran says:

    So, umm, I have one theory about the apple that appeared in Kanba’s box and I would like some feedback.

    Shoma didn’t have anyone who he cared for, so he chose Kanba. That’s why the apple appeared in Kanba’s box. Kanba afterwards returned half of the apple to Shoma. In short it was the moment they became friends.

  23. Green says:

    “Peripheral route to persuasion” used beautifully. Ending Engages in Emotional response > cognitive response. Attempting to divert audience attention away from questions the writer could not answer by the use of confusion (Emotionally). Well, it’s a common technique used by the media to mask their intent. Interesting piece of work though.

    • imredjimmy says:

      Wow, plenty of smart words there :D Never thought that maybe his first intention was to NOT answer our questions? Maybe you’re right and they went “shit, what do we do now :S”. I don’t need answers when the work is as beautiful ;)

    • Snowolf says:

      Hmm, I think he did answer the questions he posed in the beginning, but he answered them by saying that some answers…had no answers? Free interpretation is a given, of course, but I think Ikuhara meant to say above all was that family bonds- the price of living is to live for other people, and family represents that more than anything; not that true love is sacrifice, but to live in itself, that is the greatest punishment bestowed upon anyone, but living in meaning- living through other people, by sharing your suffering, your pain, your joy with one another- that’s the true price of living, but it’s the one price we all would never give up, because our constraints- the things that keep us in boxes, that sustain us and yet also hinder us from becoming gods, or ghosts, are the same imperfections that allow us to bond with one another. And in the end, Shouma and Kanba sacrificed themselves not out of “true” love, but out of happiness, in finding, sharing, and relishing their bonds with one another. That is the Penguindrum; the bonds shared by the trio, the punishment suffered by them, and the price they paid to make each other happy. THIS SOUNDS SO INCOHERENT I AM SORRY. But I do agree with you to an extent; some questions are left unanswered for the sake of stimulating those ideas and questions in the audiences’ minds, masked with a very poignant and emotional story.

  24. imredjimmy says:

    I loved loved LOVED the ending! I wasn’t really expecting things to be revealed much so that part didn’t really bother me. It sure was bittersweet but I was sure that Shouma and Kanba would dissapear or die for Himari simply because the opening song was called “Boys come back to me”. The episode was beautiful and the animation perfect. I like when Himari “shatters fate” by stepping on the glass. And the music…..the music!!!! My favourite series of the year (not of all time) without a doubt! I feel like it’s the kind of series the more you re-watch, the more you discover new things. I hope psgels will enjoy it as much as I did.

  25. Alec says:

    I loved and hated the ending at the same time. I kinda get the symbolism or the deep things that happened in the episode. But what I do not understand is WHY!.

    Why did the characters do that? Why couldn’t they come up with a better solution? Why did they creators go for this ending? Why do I feel trolled bt this ending.

    “WHY” is the biggest word

    It’s just hard to put into words what I felt when watching that ending

  26. Alec says:

    still its a good ending.

    Just like what the creator did to Utena’s ending (Epic/Best ending. but kinda felt trollish) He did it to MPD

  27. c160 says:

    Even though pretty much nothing was out right explained, I think I can understand it. And like what every one else is saying, it was definitely emotionally devastating T_T

  28. Zetatrain says:

    Ok lets see here. Half of me feels satisfied but the half feels like I just got trolled. I was expecting many things to be left unexplained and I am still in the process of trying to make sense of some of the stuff that was explained.

  29. reverse says:

    just a bit simple ending in my book, bad guy perish/sustain and they live happy ever after, oh and sou and kan disappearance just to spice thing up. overall it pretty solid ending didn’t manage to annoy me one bit

  30. CJay says:

    I feel like I am one of the few people who liked this better than Utena. Utena for sure had better developed characters but the characters I feel were used better in MPD. I guess it might be a personal thing more but I thought that the themes were far more powerful in this show. And the Nanami episodes werent that amazing where as the comedy in this show was constant and always hilarious with the penguin antics.

    Id have to say that the more realistic setting in MPD also got my attention better and specifically made the surreal parts stand out more. Where as Utena’s really specific setting which was already rather surreal setting didn’t create the same contrast that I loved so much in MPD.

  31. gandalf8 says:

    I think I may be in the minority here, but I simply cannot seem to understand very well much of the story and symbolism in this series. Heck, I’m still scratching my head at most of the story elements in Revolutionary Girl Utena, Ikuhara’s previous series. Yet, you seem to have no problems with that seeing as you consistently rate each episode as excellent with a run of awesome episodes towards this finale. Therefore, I would like to make a request of you. I know these days you seem to be getting busier with real life Psgels, so I totally understand if you cannot fulfill it. So, my request is – could you make a synopsis that covers the major events in the series from the first episode up until this finale? And also include a separate column if possible to explaining the major symbolism in the series, like the apple for instance?

  32. akitoyo says:

    To me, Penguingdrum is a story about love. Plain and simple.

    I think that the penguindrum/apple = love. That’s it. Giving the apple to someone/saying “let’s eat the fruit of destiny together” = “i love you”.

    Tabuki says that every child just needs someone to say “I love you” to him/her, because this allows them to live on and find happiness in the cruel world.

    – Kanba was chosen by the parents, which is why he got the apple in the box, but he shares that with Shouma, which is why they’re both alive as “brothers”
    – Shouma says “let’s eat the fruit of destiny together” to Himari in the child broiler, so Himari is brought back and is part of a family and finds happiness
    – Momoka says “let’s eat the fruit of destiny together” to Yuri and Tabuki (not directly, but in order to save them from their respective shitty worlds) and the two come together to find happiness in the end
    – More obvious, but Shouma saying “I love you” to Ringo and burning (taking the punishment for reviving Himari) in her stead, and Ringo finding happiness with Himari in another world.

    etc. etc.

    I guess what Ikuhara is trying to say is, it’s a shitty world out there, but as long as there’s love between people, they can still find happiness (albeit many shapes and forms). Simple as that.

    “mawaru” = going round and round, Penguindrum = love. This is beautifully depicted in the siblings. Each sibling had shitty pasts, with shitty parents. But they loved each other (Again, with the apples 1) Kanba –> Shouma, 2) Shouma –> Himari, 3) Himari –> Kanba. WALLAH! A CIRCLE!) and could find happiness.

    On a side note, I read something that I found interesting somewhere.
    There are three siblings but only 2 apples, which is why Himari had to die. Destiny couldn’t allow all three to live, because there wasn’t enough love for all of them. That’s why in the end, with Shouma and Kanba sharing the apple and reviving Himari, Himari was alive in full form, but Kanba and Shouma were kids (half of what they were).
    I’m not exactly sure if that all adds up, but I thought it was interesting.

    • akitoyo says:

      OH, btw if you can’t tell, I LOVED THIS SERIES!

    • tmyk says:

      “I guess what Ikuhara is trying to say is, it’s a shitty world out there, but as long as there’s love between people, they can still find happiness (albeit many shapes and forms). Simple as that.”

      OK! I can deal with that. . .it also explains why I absolutely hated the series as well (aside from all the confusing symbolism)

      I just dont believe that the world is as shit as Ikuhara tells us it is, in fact I believe the complete opposite, that as well as the belief that you need someone to love you to get though, when I believe that you need to truly love yourself, instead of relying on someone else to shower their love on you (as no one person can shower there love on you 100% of the time forever) and the third thing, I believe that each individual decides their own fate.

      The fate part I understand why I rolled my eyes every 30 seconds (as they mentioned it that much) since that didnt gel with what I believe at all, the rest I just hated but didnt understand why, it wasnt because the series is inherintly bad, its actaulyl quite good at telling Ikuharas message, it sjust the message that I and probably a few others dont really think is accurate. Thats what I find the biggest flaw in overly symbolic shows like these that try to be “deep” and send a message, if people don’t agree with the message, it becomes too preachy top it off with the over the top symbolism then it morphs form preachy to pretentious. . .BUT at least I know what he was saying and why I don’t agree etc. . . thanks for that akitoyo

  33. PL says:

    Favorite line this ep(Subs):

    Sanetoshi: You’ve gotta be shittin me.
    Laughed for 2 mins.

  34. billish says:

    @gandalf: i’m sure someone will do it, considering how well-written this show is.
    I dunno, i figured about the symbolic penguindrum earlier in the series (though i did marathon this in a week or so).
    I really fuckin enjoyed this series, but i knew i would after maybe episode 10.
    I totally understand why this type of ending can be frustrating. I guess this type of highly literary / highly symbolic work is my cup of tea.
    Also, I REALLY appreciate some of the work that’s being done by some fans on this site’s comment section alone, as it just makes organizing thoughts much easier.
    Last, I feel that MPD blows Utena out of the water with its subject matter, but realistically I can’t compare the two because I haven’t / couldn’t finish Utena (matter of taste i’m sure)
    So, finally, what does this show mean to me? Well, it means I’m gonna give Utena another chance, thought I am pessimistic in the outcome lol

  35. kazid33 says:

    O wheel, the final here, uhmm to confusing for me, meaby is not the show for me but at least I agree that it was a good show, not a amazing but a good one. Really between this and Stein I really prefer Stein, but is actually about preferences. Is my personal opinion.

    And about the next season, I dont see anything interesting, its me?? or really the new shows are bad?.

  36. betawatcher says:

    @kazid33 NATSUME. NUFFSAID.

  37. nodbgp says:

    Wow, you know that wasn’t the final I wanted, I wanted an ending where the world ended and was born anew, because it’s as real as it can get. But seriously the final they gave is even more original and awesome, I mean there’s a lot of works out there that deal with sacrifice, but as long as I remember this is the first series that deals with real sacrifice. People are complaining about how the girls can’t remember the brothers, but would they be able to be happy remembering how the ones they loved died because of them? I don’t think so, the feeling of guilty would always be lingering somewhere. So that’s real sacrifice, giving everything without getting nothing back beyond the well being of the person you are giving.

    Also, thank you akitoyo for explaining the scorpion fire issue, I guess it’s time I read “Night on the Galactic Railroad”. Also thank again akitoyo for summing it up about the three siblings circle, in which Kanba gave Shouma’s life meaning, Shouma did the same for Himari and then Himari became Kanba’s light.

    For people complaining about answers not being given, just watch it again or read peoples posts or the better way, think harder, all that had to be answered was there and all that wasn’t answered, well, it didn’t have to be answered in first place. As for people complaining that it wasn’t a happy ending: A) Just pay attention to the last lines of dialogue between Kanba and Shouma when they pass in front of the house or B) go watch some happy go lucky series, there are a lot of those out there, and thats why they will be forgotten through the years, a thing which I’m sure will not happen with penguindrum.

    To finish this post, I wanna say I’m really happy I was only able to watch it exactly on my birthday, for it was a great ending fit for an great series. So thank you Penguindrum. :)

  38. kazid33 says:

    @betawatcher I will check that one. ? is the thirth season rigth?.

  39. Oersted says:

    I’m pretty sure Ikuhara would engage in a tremendous troll laughing if he saw some of these debates. I bet the guy put some images there without even thinking what they meant — and it’s not an offense. Mawaru Penguindrum is a story which anyone can intuitively understand, and it’s actually pretty simple, but our minds insist on extracting meanings and exploring dead ends. There is an undeniable artistic appeal and beauty to this unique storytelling, but we are too busy to appreciate it.

    We were expecting that the final episode would gather up all the stuff and conclude them… Well, sorry to disappoint you, but most of these stayed behind. Penguindrum is all about the trip, not the destination itself. For a complete analysis, it would be necessary to do it episode by episode, without bothering too much with the general scene (specially now that we know how it ends).

    • manlyflower says:

      I’ll be honest, that’s what I used to think as well with these kinds of works, and for some, that might be what actually happened. It might also be true for some of the “symbols” in this particular story, but these things that come up, sometime veeery esoteric things, represent the story in ways I couldn’t predict. There are somethings that are not intuitive at all, like some of the stories referenced, that deepen understanding about the values that the anime is expressing. And honestly, I don’t think there is a difference in heavy symbolic meaning and artistic storytelling. Just by examining the symbolism, we are basking in the beauty of the crafted story.

      You’re right, intuitively it IS easy to understand. Without understanding everything concretely, but that’s a different matter. But just how he fit the story perfectly and so masterfully into 24 episodes with little to no pointless excess, it would be almost insulting to say the scenes and settings he created were just flairs of ascetic inconsequence.

      I can understand where you come from, and I acknowledge there there are indeed artists of every nature that use symbolism that does not go anywhere just for the flair, but I honestly believe Ikuhara is not one of them. I have yet to find a piece of symbolism in MPD that does not accentuate or foreshadow the story and ideas in one way or another.

  40. kazid33 says:

    Then i thing is good to made four seasons¡¡

  41. Alec says:

    so Akio didn’t die/disappear… his plans just failed
    ans Sanetoshi didn’t die/disappear either… his plans just failed.

    Damn, I just love Ikuhara’s villains.

  42. Hogart says:

    I ended up liking this in different ways then I expected. I’m not one to enjoy doing all of the work myself, so as a narrative this failed me (or I failed it, if you prefer). But as a character study it actually ended up rather good, and redeemed itself in my eyes.

    I’m just not sure how it stands as it’s own story, because here the symbolism pretty much is the story. Since it relies so heavily on the shoulders it’s standing on, and those shoulders are always in-frame, it’s difficult to tell which I’m appreciating more. I can safely say that Penguindrum has made me appreciate those shoulders a bit more, at least.

    But yeah.. I can certainly understand why people who aren’t familiar with all the referenced material would see Penguindrum as too pretentious and dense to appreciate. I think it either got lucky (or was told with enough skill if you are forgiving) that it didn’t have to answer a lot of questions.. but that’s probably going to leave a lot of people in the lurch.

  43. evolstar says:

    For those wondering about the apple symbolism, I found this image to be helpful at explaining it: http://i.imgur.com/bYTw1.jpg

    • Machi says:

      I’d say that this is one thing that really should be left for viewers to ponder on themselves. The idea of it as a reference to Miyazawa Kenji looks to be a great start though to understanding it. But by and large it keeps changing meaning depending on the context it is used for in the episodes so yeah I don’t think this has a solid answer, nor necessarily requires one anyways.

  44. jzar says:

    On the fence a bit. I do feel like it the show did not tell the final story idea very well. I like the thinking parts very much but it went too far into unexplained. The true worlds answer our heart question.

    Without the basic truths……you don’t reach it. So for me this fell short. It missed telling or showing us the heart of the story. So it’s a missed but a great effort and still worth a look.

  45. Umi says:

    WELL finally…they were mean to sacrifice…..it is really sad…as I can get…..Momoka was saved by their sacrifice to…but …jeje well I will love that SHouma and Ringo live…and Kanba and himari died jajajaja..at least one of the couples died…but…well….guys sacrificed by their girls….the love they found through the story i guess…i like it…but yes..I expected more answers…symbolisim was nice…but….I love more resolutions jaja…and …well…that shouma live…he was a really nice guy…kanba….too..but…I really prefered Shouma..

  46. Dara says:

    I like the end but I think the end is missing something …
    Mawaru Penguin Drum was a brillant amazing sad crazy anime, but is the best of 2011…
    It’s really a anime to think about (This make us mad)
    I need more time to understand all…

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
To sum that up, don't bully my waifu or I will end you.
AidanAK47
@Mario, She only killed him once and tortured him for information once. Both times because he had something which showed he had a connection to the witch. Besides, the anime mainly showed off her good points but she still has a crushing inferiority complex and a rather delicate mindset.
SuperMario
Oh I have one. How about Lovepon? lol
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it was sarcasm actually, if we do it again next year we might cut down some categories. But I totally agree that we're lacking of good villains. Biba and that teacher are the worst as they actually dragged their shows down.
Topgavin
Honestly though there's been a real lacking of good villains last year. I hear some guy from Jojo was pretty good, but other than that they've either been okay or lackluster. Makes you wonder how FMA:B managed to get so many villians right in so many ways when shows usually fail to get even 1 half as good.
Topgavin
@Supermario Biba or Teacher-dude from Erased surely...
SuperMario
Maybe we should include the best villain next time, haha. I honestly don't know who to pick...
SuperMario
oh Rem, that demon girl who tried to kill Subaru many times over. Why is she the best girl again?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I watched Moonlight last night in cinema and it was great. I had high expectation for that and it pretty much delivered. Also Janelle Monae was so freaking hot.
SuperMario
OMG, that 3rd episode of Rakugo was so greattttt. @Lenlo: don't need to understand the meaning of the rant thou, Yotaro doesn't understand either
Kaiser Eoghan
Think of the fine children/breeding stock Aidan and rem would offspring =P
Kaiser Eoghan
Dye their hair, make things confusing ;)
AidanAK47
@Anon, hahahaha, cool joke bro.....
...............................Don't make me destroy you.
Lenlo
The one with red hair of course
Anonymous765953
rem? who's that?
Lenlo
Having read the books, theres afew inconsistencies and I dont like some of the choices for actors.
Kaiser Eoghan
*couldn't
Kaiser Eoghan
Buh buh but Aiiiidan you still have the koe no katachi movie and thaaats kyoani =P But lol phantom world was so poor I couldn't get past the second episode. A shame that they could go with the darker spin the author ended up apparently going for in later volumes.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I am currently eh on it as well. Only at the second episode so far. I find it interesting but it has a lot of things that turn me off.
Lenlo
7 YEARS I SAT ON THAT BOAT!

Still havnt finished Flip Flappers. I like it, its pretty, each episode is different, but I can barely tell what the over-arching narrative is and thats a big deal to me
Lenlo
ITS REAL
Lenlo
BOAT TIER
Lenlo
@Aidan, Series of Unfortunate Events was eh. I wasnt a big fan of the TV adaptation, though I did like Neil Patrick Harris
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: BOAT TIER lmao.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats why I LOVED flippflappers so much, where else can I get THAT anywhere, totally its own thing/beast.
Lenlo
My big ones for the year were easily Rakugo and Re:Zero. Disappointments, biggest one is Berserk. Ive been following it for years, have the entire series on my shelf, and I watched it like a captain going down with his ship
Kaiser Eoghan
At the same time well, yes its still good to see a non-highschool story in ANYTHING.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, you see I don't really award points to an anime doing something unique to anime, I judge by all mediums as a group/whole. 91 days may be a mafia drama, kabaneri may be a zombie show but theres already plenty of those in the world elsewhere.
Kaiser Eoghan
I could see myself getting some oldskool charm out of alderman if I watched it. I was waiting for yuri on ice to be dubbed. Drifters for all its problems was some of the most fun I've had in ages.
Kaiser Eoghan
The only thing I saw that I truly abhorred though was the new shinkai film.
Kaiser Eoghan
Most of the other stuff I didn't really bother watching. Its pointless for me to shit on about 91 days and re:zero because I was guaranteed to dislike both before seeing either.
Kaiser Eoghan
Biggest disappointments for me were erased , berserk and joker game. Whereas my surprise was lost passage. My favourites of the year were flippflappers and Rakugo. I wanted Kabaneri and dimesion w to save anime and bring back some oldskool charm but that didn't happen.
AidanAK47
Alright I spent over an hour formatting this thing and now I am knackered. Readers, this summery is over 23 pages long so be prepared as this thing is pretty huge. Don't say you were not warned.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Watch it. I bet it will be up your alley.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats a problem with adaptations, put a voice on certain characters and it can become irritating.
Kaiser Eoghan
And to be fair on scums wish, that it deals with the sex bit in a teen story, well that makes it more daring and thats points for it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Largely stayed away from that series as I assumed it was for young children.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Additionally the relationships in that manga got too convoluted, the comedy stands out worse in the anime too. Still though I DO dig the idea behind the show of two kids who are in a fake relationship.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, you think that's hard to watch try watching Netflix's A series of unfortunate events. Because boy do I want to brutally murder the banker and his family. That may sound severe to you but trust me, you will feel likewise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You were right about it being harder to watch scums wish than read it. I want to hit the twin tails girl with a hatchet.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm laughing now remembering an old ANN review where they stated golgo 13 was a stress reliever for 30 something Japanese office workers, I get that so much more now lol
Kaiser Eoghan
But seriously violence in fiction, anime/manga included is so damn therapeutic.
Kaiser Eoghan
As such I genuinely was able to enjoy the new M night shaylman flick lol
Kaiser Eoghan
Venting here largely because I can, I now imagine the teenage/twenty something audience members at horror/thriller films as the victims in the films, makes it more tolerable to deal with their existence in the cinema.
Lenlo
I cant help but feel theres some cultural aspect I am missing to the Rakugo rant scene. Makes me sad.
Lenlo
Rakugo, continues to be great and gets another time skip. Im always surprised by how engrossing it is just listening to these people talk.
Lenlo
Makes me sad, just like Berserk. Got an entire shelf dedicated to it but its just so slow. stupid boat.
Lenlo
Vagabond was phenomenal, but its been on hiatus for years now hasnt it
Kaiser Eoghan
....well without spoiling towards the middle of that rakugo episode and all throughout during that middle part, my opinion on Yotaro's character went far up.
Kaiser Eoghan
Struggling to remember the name of that josei samurai manga from the 90s (or earlier 2000s), had a gender bending theme.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've already read kenshin and vagabond, I loved shigurui death frenzy and sword of the stranger but found samurai champloo uneven. Theres a kagemusha manga but I haven't read it and I've yet to see/read blade of the immortal.
Kaiser Eoghan
At a glance I'll go against the grain and say I think demi-chan is funnier than konosuba, going on one episode of each.
I've been watching a fare share of samurai films in the last two years and lately so I'm open to wathing more anime/reading manga dealing with samurai.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
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