Posted by psgels on 26 March 2012 with categories: Another

You know what? This is a season of very solid endings (save for Guilty Crown perhaps, but screw that show). I realized that when Another’s ending was the first ending that didn’t live up to my expectations. Oh, it was still good and i liked the closure it gave, but my expectations of this episode were high, and this episode pulled a few things that tugged on my suspense of disbelief.

The closure that was given was very solid though. To be honest, I did not consider Reiko being the ghost being a possibility. Technically she isn’t a student, But I can accept the logic of the ghost being a bit creative. This episode also didn’t really solve the calamity, it only delayed the killings for another year. I don’t mind that either. This is no story about exorcists, it’s about a bunch of teenagers trying to survive. I also liked the direction of this episode. The faces were a bit silly t times, but it nevertheless was good suspense, the action scenes were well directed and shot, and the scene with the revelation of the ghost was also quite creative.

Still, my knowledge about fire kept poking my suspense of disbelief whenever the characters were in the house: what happened to the smoke? I mean, a lot of victims of house fires don’t die because of fire, but because they inhale too much smoke. I can buy scenes with characters running through fire as fast as they can, but the characters in this episode casually walked around a burning building while feeling perfectly fine. In fact, acknowledging the fire could have lead to an interesting extra threat to this episode.

My big issue with this ending is its lack of meaning, though. I’m still not exactly sure what happened here, with the ghost breaking his own rules and suddenly deciding to try and eliminate every single member of the class with random lightning bolts, falling pillars, chandeliers and even trying to kill the dead student… for some strange reason. The people who went crazy were also nice and all, but they would have been even nicer if they actually had been fleshed out a bit. Because of that they also lacked the impact they could have had. And who on earth was that murdering maid?

And then Misaki suddenly revealed that she witnessed Meiko being killed. Of all the places she could have been. The creators could have done an epilogue that explained that: “we later found out that Meiko had been killed when.. blah blah et cetera”. Also, regarding the dolls of the first episode: what was their point again?

Overall, I think I liked Blood-C slightly more over Another (yes, I liked that show). It took much longer to get going, but in the end I liked how bold it was with its mystery, and how everything came together at the end. Another doesn’t necessarily have that ending where everything comes together, but instead it’s the journey that made it memorable, trying to figure out a way how to stop people dying the most bizarre deaths. It tried a bit too hard at times, but overall I’d rank this in the top five shows of the Winter 2012 season..

A review will be posted tomorrow, because it’s too late now (where I am anyway). Why on earth do four series decide to end all at the same bloody time?
Rating: *+ (Great)

28 Responses

  1. victor says:

    This ending let me down. What’s the explanation for Misaki’s supernatural hability? There is no explanation, Misaki is just a – still – misterious girl and we just have to accept that. There should have been some explanation, she (or her mother) had to be connected to 3rd class mistery origin somehow. These two misteries have to be connected, otherwise this is way too convenient and deus machine-like. Also, I don’t buy that “the important is the journey, not the destination”, this show should have been about how a group of the 3rd class definitely stopped the calamity for ever, not a more or less random ocurrence of the loop. I enjoyed this series a lot anyway.

    • Sei says:

      I think it explained somewhere that it is because her twin was dead, or something, she starts to see the color of death because she herself is “near to death” in that sense? A bit like Kara no kyoukai.

      About the doll metaphor, psgel, I think it is for Mei character. She felt herself to be the replacement of something, and did not live for herself. That’s why she remained so passive after all abuse.

      • victor says:

        I don’t remember that. I remember that her twin was the first victim of the calamity. Misaki had that fake eye before that. But you’re probably right.
        I thought that the doll metaphor was just a reference to Rozen Maiden, since there are two characters that have the exact eyes as Misaki in that series (can’t remember their names, but they were siblings) and they were dolls. The opening for Rozen Maiden was also by the same artist.

    • joojoobees says:

      I think she can see death because she has a doll eye. This is a cautionary tale: Don’t replace your real eyes with doll eyes, or you will see dead people.

  2. Qwerty1 says:

    Major ball drop on the final scene in the graveyard.

    The Manga had the two of them in casual clothes, Mei wearing a sun dress. They’ve been setting up that dress in the credits since the beginning and instead they have them in their school uniforms…

  3. Baron says:

    The build up to the climax was good but I agree that something just didn’t click. I still got a sense of closure from the ending but there were some ridiculous things that actually made me laugh, such as Kouichi wandering haplessly around the building without suffering smoke inhalation and the incredibly accurate lightning strikes which for some reason set off a series of chain explosions in the building. I know it is supposed to be supernatural but it just seems a tad over the top. Still, it was good suspense. I totally didn’t see the twist with Reiko Sensei coming.

  4. Bob Dole says:

    Don’t care about the ending or anything. I can deal with it. What I CAN’T deal with is. WHO THE HELL KILLED REIKO 1.5 YEARS AGO?! Was it Sakakibara? His dad? He was supposedly there back then, according to both his dad and Akazawa.

    In which case, that means Sakakibara is a murderer. A crazy one.

    Also, I’m kind of curious why no one cares about the events of 1.5 years ago. Unless, I missed something.

    • Nautical says:

      I think it was just someone who somewhat resembled Sakakibara, not Sakakibara himself. When Akazawa first me Sakakibara, he was in the town for Reiko’s funeral. (Hence why he also mentions how he just lost someone important to him.) He knew Reiko had died, but his memories were erased of her death because of the calamity.
      But yeah, it still felt a bit out of place to have someone completely random be Reiko’s murderer. This series connected all its bits and pieces pretty well, but it did both me a bit that the murderer was out of the blue.

    • skyhack says:

      Reiko was killed by a random psycho class 3 student, more than likely. Maybe she,as the assistant teacher (why would you assign an assistant teacher to a cursed class, anyway), spurned the poor sap’s crush on her or something.

      Plenty of class 3 psychos to go around (could that be a meme?).

      He could’ve even been the “Other” for that year, since they seem to be as susceptible to the calamity as the rest.

      PA Works made this nearly impossible to “get” without that last episode. Reiko = Mikami sensei would have made too obvious, though.

  5. skyhack says:

    I had predicted at separate times both Reiko and Mikami, but I had no idea that they were the same person. Nice troll, PA Works!

    I enjoyed this show a lot, a bit over the top at times, put you have to put aside some amount of reason when watching a show with supernatural aspects.

    Baron’s right about the smoke, as well, and not just with Kouichi. It seemed every student had somehow decided that it was perfectly normal to show no sense of urgency while moving through a burning building, unless some psychopath was chasing them.

    • tktym says:

      THIS! I mean what the hell, the whole building is on fire and some students dont even notice! lol then Koichi GOES BACK INTO the burning building. . .wtf! I love this show to bits but those parts and the overkill-ing of all the students made me laugh a lot! ep 12 was definitely the weaker ending ep of the season :(

      somethings that I wondered about: uh. . . so how are they gonna solve the calamity next year? I mean this class got kind of “lucky” that they had someone who could see dead people. . .but what about next year???
      and how are they gonna solve the calamity for good!!!???
      but yeah, people walking through a building like its nothing, was pretty stupid haha.

      • tktym says:

        OH yeah, so. . .why did the guy say only 7 people had died. . .I clearly remember like only 5 or 6 people surviving. . .so ….yeah wth?

  6. joojoobees says:

    I don’t think they ever explained how or why the ghost was killing either. Supposedly the ghost didn’t realize she was dead, so why kill? Also, how do ghosts call down lightning?

  7. Ellamae says:

    The business about wandering around and standing and conversing in burning buildings happens A LOT in anime and it has always, always bothered me. Yes, in real life smoke inhalation would kill you and your own sense of self preservation would make you jump out of windows to escape fire, but not in the anime world. Something about the raging flames as backdrop seems to intrigue anime directors, I don’t know.

    But I am reading this manga in scans on the on the web and hope they will better explain things. There are scenes where the young man has bad feelings in the house when talking to Reiko and is trying hard to recall “something” about a year ago so the foreshadowing is better. Hopefully it’ll explain her murder a little more clearly as well.

    • skyhack says:

      That statement about the burning buildings and jumping out is certainly correct.

      Way back in the late 70’s (or early 80’s), I remember watching a live news feed on TV where a skyscraper was on fire.

      There was a beauty salon on like the 40th floor, and the window to it was in full view of the camera. They even had a parabolic microphone pointed at the window, so you could hear what was taking place. One by one, the women in the salon chose to fall 40 stories rather than be burned to death.

      On live national TV.

      It was the most frightening thing I’d ever seen, as well as being both riveting and repulsive. I can picture that grainy video in my mind to this day.

      It still freaks me out when I think about it.

  8. Cholisose says:

    “I’m still not exactly sure what happened here, with the ghost breaking his own rules and suddenly deciding to try and eliminate every single member of the class with random lightning bolts, falling pillars, chandeliers and even trying to kill the dead student… for some strange reason.”
    It seems the calamity strikes hardest when students are trying to put an end to it. This was made clear when the whole class prayed at the shrine back in 1983, and suddenly two more of them were immediately killed off. The fact that nearly the entire class was all focused on trying to kill the dead extra shifted the calamity to All Hell Breaks Loose Mode.
    Which apparently the dead extra herself was not 100% immune to, since there are still random variables at play. Plus, it was already made clear that it is possible for the dead extra to be killed.

    “And who on earth was that murdering maid?”
    They said in this episode that the lodge owners were the grandparents of Takabayashi (the freckled boy who had the sudden heart attack halfway through the series). Chibiki (the librarian) said they had suffered emotional trauma after the boy’s death, so I guess the lodge lady decided to have her revenge on all of class 3.

    “Also, regarding the dolls of the first episode: what was their point again?”
    It’s just symbolism for Mei’s situation at the start of the series. Like a doll, she could exist in the fact she was there, but she couldn’t live like an actual human being. The two dolls joined together were an allusion to Mei and her twin Misaki, and then you can glean meaning from the doll that looked like Mei as well (eg Mei’s not the real daughter–the stillborn child was). I don’t think they’re meant to be a huge plot element.

    Another definitely had its share of unanswered questions though, as have been pointed out in other comments already. I really wished the series would end a bit more… thoroughly. The main mystery was solved, but I felt like we needed something more revealed for our main two characters, Kouichi and Mei. This may be largely stemming from my wish that they could have been developed more, though. =/
    Overall it was an exciting, engaging series–enough that I’d call it an excellent horror mystery… But it’s not quite the groundbreaking series I was hoping it’d be.
    I’d be interested in reading the book, if it’s ever translated into English. (If only light novels were more popular…)

  9. Rumana says:

    I heard there will be an OVA for this series which will be aired in may 2012. Maybe you’ll get your answer there.

  10. skyhack says:

    I guess I should read the novel. Acck. It’s probably got a TON of Kanji.

  11. Rachnid says:

    Some people seem to have the idea that the dead person is deliberately killing off people, but from what I understand the dead person is just a piece of the puzzle. They themselves don’t know that they are dead and has the same knowledge of everything everyone else does, except fake memories and stuff like that.

  12. troy says:

    exatly at least in the manga it was explained plainly that it is simply a curse. The dead one does not know that he is dead, he does not do anythig, by his very exisstence in the living world where he does not belong he places whole of the class and it’s relatives in a state “closer to death” meaning that as long as he is there they are prone to die.

  13. tktym says:

    so apparently there is some source material, so I went on a difrerent forum and found some minor differences between the source material and anime: Though most people won’t go to this thread until the anime is over I made a list of what is different between the anime and the original novel so far. I found some of the changes good, some bad…I’m still pretty excited to see how they will pull off the very end. If anybody who has read the novel noticed any further differences I’d be interested if I missed some (I have that feeling I did)…or maybe anybody has an opinion about the changes XD
    Spoiler for differences novel to anime:

    The two neighbouring areas Yūmigaoka and Asamidai are mentioned, explaining that the names seem to refer to the beauty of the places in different times of the day. Asami (朝見) Yūmi (夕見) and Yomi (夜見) being morning-view, evening-view and night-view respectively.
    Kōichi drinks coffee from the very beginning (but remarks that Reiko drinks it black)
    Reiko tells one of the 7 ghost stories of Yomi North:
    “Well then I tell you this one, which was by the way the first I heard back then.“
    And so Reiko began to narrate that one ghost story sorrounding the animal stable behind the gym.
    One morning all the bunnies and guinea pigs had vanished from their stable. The door had been destroyed and inside were huge ammounts of blood. The police was called for investigation and it became a huge fuss, but not one of the animals was everr found and they never found out who did it. The stables were torn down after that, but apparently there were reports of seeing the blood-smeared bunnies and guinea pigs (maybe their ghosts?) on that site.
    “But that story has a strange addition to it.“, continued Reiko with a serious face.
    “When the police tested the blood samples they had found at the scene, it turned out not to be bunny or guinea pig blood at all. It was human blood. It was bloodtype AB negative*…“

    *AB negative (or all negative bloodtypes) are thought to be very rare in Japan and it therefore hints toward a strange and peculiar person.
    Ritsuko explains more about the class rules:

    rule #1: If you go out onto the roof and you hear the crows cry out, you have to reenter with your left foot first.
    rule #2: After entering the 3rd grade of middle school, you may never fall down on the hill road outside of the back gate.
    rule #3: You must always follow the decisions of your class.

    Akazawa Izumi is not part of the welcoming committee visiting Kōichi in the hospital. She is absent during those days and was thus unable to perform her duties as head of countermeassures.
    Kōichi’s reason for wanting to protect Mei against ostracism and bullying is explained further when the two talk about him being bullied after the 1997 case in Kōbe where 14 year old Sakakibara Seito was arrested as a child murderer.
    Kōichi spends more time with Teshigawara Naoya and Kazami Tomohiko.
    Teshigawara and Kazami show him around the school, including the old school building.
    Akazawa Izumi does not become a part of the group of friends (in the anime she takes the role of Kazami, while he is completely removed from the gang). She is practically absent from every scene in which she features in the anime.
    Along the way Kōichi visits Mochizuki Yuuya and Kazami at home.
    Inose Tomoka (Anime version: Mochizuki Tomoka) is further explained to be Mochizuki’s half sister by a different mother and therefore far enough removed not to be targeted as a victim.
    The group never gets to meet Matsunaga Katsumi, they are merely being told about the hint towards the hidden cassette tape by Inose Tomoka who works at the café Inoya which he frequents.
    The group does not take a trip outside of town. The only person leaving town for a few days is Misaki Mei who goes on a trip with her parents on her fathers boat.
    Nakao Junta does not die in an accident at sea because of a cerebral concussion. He is stabbed to death by Takabayashi Ikuo’s maternal grandmother Numata Mineko on her rampage at the lodge.
    Ayano Aya and her parents have no actual role in the original plot and do not die at all.
    Takabayashi Ikuo does not attempt to tell Kōichi about Misaki Mei and dies from a heart attack at home. Kōichi learns about this when Mochizuki is informed about it via phone by Akazawa.
    Chibiki Tatsuji’s lecture about the workings of the phenomenon and the ensuing calamity is much more elaborate. He tells Kōichi and Mei about the phenomena of previous years, the gradual progress of forgetting and also about the growing countermeassures
    The tape they found in the old 3-3 classroom got damaged when they were to eager in removing the adhesive tape. They also don’t use any school property to play it back but have to repair it first. Mei is not present during their search either.
    Reiko seems a lot more distraught about her sister’s death
    Steadily we are told about several of the 7 school ghost stories:

    #1 bloody animal stables
    #2 bloody hand rising from the basins
    #3 secret library

    Several death are explained in further detail to make them more of an accident that happened due to a heightened chance of death occuring:

    Sakuragi Yukari: Her death is happening unobserved, we are merely told through Koichi’s perspective that she apparently opened her umbrella while storming down the stairs and then slipped and fell on it.

    Mizuno Sanae: She does not die from being crushed, but suffers a severe head trauma when the elevator hits ground. She is unresponsive afterwards and dies while the hospital staff tries to reanimate her. Also, the policemen say that the elevator was apparently in bad shape and was already rumored to be a death trap. Out of so far unresolved circumstances the emergency breaks activated but broke down immediatly.

    Takabayashi Ikuo: He dies of a heart attack while at his home, unobserved by anybody.

    Mr. Kubodera: His and his mother’s background are elaborated upon. He has to care for his mother after the stroke made her practically unable to care for herself as well as making her grow more and more senile over the years. He silently started resenting his mother with whom he shared a very small appartment. The description when commiting suicide is also more focused on his speech, hinting at him already having crossed the border into insanity.

    Koichi talks to the detective researching the cases sorrounding the calamity. The detective admits that he has heard about that infamous curse and has a personal interest, but because there is no perpetrator there is nothing he can do about it.
    The detective mentions that he has a 12 year old daughter about to advance to Yomi North and that this is the reason why he has a personal interest in the curse. He tries to belief that the curse will be lifted until his daughter gets into the 3-3 by any chance.
    After hearing about it from Teshigawara at the lodge Kōichi rushes out to look whether Kazami is dead. Kazami has only a minor injury that makes him unable to walk on his own.
    The main proof that Kōichi’s contact with Mei brought disaster upon the class, used by Akazawa at the lodge when she is accusing Mei is, that Sugiura Takako saw how Sakuragi reacted when she saw Kōichi talking to Mei on the corridor which made her run in the opposite direction.
    Sugiura Takako does not go insane and also does not spearhead any witch-hunt against Misaki Mei at the lodge. She is simply stabbed by Numata Mineko when she surprises her and Akazawa in their room.
    Akazawa Izumi is stabbed by Numata Mineko and then falls from the balcony where Kōichi finds her dead.
    Ogura Yumi has no role in the original plot apart from her brother dying. She does not die at the lodge.
    Ouji Makoto does not die at the lodge.
    When Kōichi finds Maejima Manabu in the lodge after he has been stabbed by Numata Mineko, he immediatly tries to carry him outside to safety. Maejima still dies of bloodloss immediatly after.
    Yonemura Shigeki goes along on the schooltrip where he is stabbed by Numata Mineko and dies of bloodloss. His body is only later found by the police.
    Numata Kensaku is killed in the kitchen which is then set on fire by Numata Mineko. The fire causes a gas-tank to explode, spreading the fire through the lodge and causing the students to escape in panic.
    Kōichi is chased by Numata Mineko and then saved by Chibiki who returned to the lodge.
    All students immediatly head outside as the fire in the lodge starts. There are no random deaths except those killed by Numata Mineko
    There is no lightningstorm that hits the lodge.
    There is no past meeting between Akazawa and Kôichi
    After Kôichi leaves the lodge to save Maejima and is in turn rescued by Chibiki he gets the call from Mei telling him that she is save but that he should stay where he is or he’ll regret it.
    Mei did not witness Mikami Reiko getting killed. This is only revealed later in the Outroduction chapter.
    The last scene is set in Kôichi’s hospital room.
    It is not made clear what actions the 3-3 of 1998 will take after the events of the novel.
    Kôichi and Mei are talking about going to Tôkyô together.
    Reiko’s biggest regret is being unable to see Kôichi at least once after his birth; as he has spent all his life in Tôkyô with his father
    It’s strongly hinted at that it was Reiko’s wish for Kôichi, Kôichi’s wish for a mother and their grandparents denial of Reiko’s death which triggered her return as the one person more.
    Reiko is filling the void of Kôichi’s dead mother, which makes his act of killing her also in a mirror-matricide -> He was the reason his mother came to Yomiyama in 1983 and died and now he has to kill Reiko – his surrogate mother – to end the calamity.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      So the beach episode was anime filler and a good many of the logic inconsistencies were due to the blood C directors idiocy. Good to know. I sort of suspected it but now I know for sure.

      • tktym says:

        yeah pretty much, the F**ups were the director’s fault. Still enjoyed the show but now I know why some stuff was just wtf worthy

  14. RABUJOI says:

    All in all, good finale, and we appreciate the entire story unfolding and coming to a satisfying close in a tidy twelve episodes.

    We also liked Misaki’s smirk at the end in response to Sakakibara’s question “Is it over?” It’s over for them, but unless future Class 3s have a girl with a dead twin sister and a supernatural glass eye, they’ll fall into the same traps as this Class 3. Especially if the ghost decides to get even trickier.

  15. Pax says:

    I am somewhat disappointed, they kill the ghost and so they survive but regarding the big picture, the whole curse, we never find out more. And the changed memories, then suddenly they remember… I felt cheated. Also, I for one did not find this last two episodes that intense, too many silly faces and even a laughable stance from Akazawa in this last episode, I could not take this too seriously.

  16. Kyle M. says:

    The dolls were very overused throughout the entire series but, they had no meaning to the show at all. I wanted to know why the ghost kept coming back anyway. What was the point in all of it? Also why can Misaki even see dead people? It felt like the ending where the dead person was revealed just seemed really thrown together. I mean it was a twist and a surprise to everyone but, I couldn’t just accept that they just threw out all this useful info at the end about Mei seeing her die and the faculty room being short a desk.

    They really never really said if the curse had stopped. I mean previously the dead person had been killed but, they came back year after year again. Does that mean another season? Or because Kouichi and Misaki are special the ghost just gives up?

    • tktym says:

      actually I heard there is a sequel to the source material in the works. . . so no, nothing was solved for good. . .frustraging(made up a new word) I know >_<

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Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
Anonymous1829213
*Shimanami
Anonymous1829213
And in regards to the celebrities themselves acting flamboyant or playing into stereotypes, why do you think those are the ones who are famous? They are allowed to be, because they paint a comical picture that is more easily accepted by the public. This is why Hourou Musuko and manga like Shiranami Tasogare/My Lesbian Experience with Loneliness are so amazing by painting people as actual humans
Kaiser-Eoghan
There ARE good shoujo-ai manga of course, girlfriends, aoi hana and yaoi like haru wo deiteita.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@CoolerAnon: I notice that bisexuality isn't much addressed in these things , the coming out thing doesn't often come into it.
Anonymous1829213
@Other Anon: You might add that a lot of those shows also perpetuate some pretty extreme stereotypes and male light of other of serious issues (i.e. the perception others have of LGBT people and that LGBT people have towards themselves, the experience of coming out, etc. etc.)
Kaiser-Eoghan
By lol coincidence he seems to have also voiced a pokemon character too.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*re-incarnation of, not evolved
Kaiser-Eoghan
Totally based, hilarious guy to, once claimed jokingly in an interview he was the evolved form of pikachu.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: There is a view of the transvestite as a "silly joke character" even in live action media there thats connected to homosexuallity but I'd say in most cases the person themselves is into it, Akihiro Miwa, famous Japanese gay actor played up that flamboyant drag act since the 60s.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: That is well known to me. Also its seen as anti-conform and I heard that the teachers don't know what to do when people are bullied over it, some of them think its down to mental illness.
Anonymous1829154
How japanese media portray lgbtq issues is a problem to this day. Sure shoujo, gender bender, and yaoi genres are mainstream, but at the end of the day people are expected to eventually "grow out of it" and find heterosexual partners in the end. Pretty patronizing
SuperMario
Oh shit, I didn't realize I put Wandering Children instead of Wandering Son in the title. Thanks for pointing that out Kaiser
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Shuu, mai precious lil' Babbu *hugs*
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol Okadas best anime work cause she didn't really write it lol
SuperMario
I will read on the manga to see how these kids growing up. Boy do i love this cast
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose thats fair enough.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah, I know I stretched that image a bit but for some reasons I was goddamn hard to find an image for Wandering Son that I liked. Will make a slideshow later today to see if it looks better
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah I call them by their physical gender because at that stage, they haven't come out yet, right? If I remember correctly, Shuu still regards himself as "boku" rather than "watashi"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I guess this amuses me mostly because theres a jokey line later on in the manga where the girl with shu says "Ha, guess this makes me a lesbian"
Kaiser-Eoghan
There has been some theory/suggestion that Doi is attracted to shuu seeing shuu's femininty, seeing shuu as a woman .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Later in the manga Takatsuki stops having these feelings toward masculinity, which is addressing adolescent confusion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry about this really hope I don't come off as trying to start anything/an arguement/coming off as an asshole here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats really interesting about hourou musuko is that in addition to Takako Shimura being a Lesbian , by choosing a mtf character as the protaganist and with shuu's relationship with a biological woman later in the manga, she is dealing with an even more interesting issue of whats called by Lesbians as Trans-lesbianism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Transexual, mtf or ftm are probably the more accurate words to use as transgender also includes transvestite which is a different thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its a very good review though, you don't have to change anything I'm probably being overly anal about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was wandering Children chosen instead of wandering son to avoid suggesting pronouns in the title? But then the text of the review uses shuus physical rather than psychological gender. I'm not preaching or asking for changes or complaining, I just found this somewhat contradictory.
AidanAK47
Oh Tomogui Kyoushitsu? That is a weird death game manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Checks manga cover* Goes in expecting bondage manga *its a cannibalism horror manga instead*
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably just me, but I feel the top two pictures should have a gap between them.
AidanAK47
I would recommend replacing the top image of wandering son. Cause you killed the quality of it by stretching it. Never stretch an image.
Lenlo
Id recommend some kind of slideshow or something Mario. For me, its a big sudden blob of images. But thats just me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't deny a single criticism of the Junji Ito adaptation, and yet despite it all it works for me , I forgive it because the imagination goes such a long way with me, I don't even mind that some of them aren't fully developed either, don't need things to be too tidy or explain everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Eh, Maverick was a fairly rubbish, thrown in villain but I liked Lunatics backstory how it linked in with the twist his father was that big hero guy mentioned at the start who ended up becoming a washed up mess.
SuperMario
And I won't take "No, you don't need these pics at all" for an answer
SuperMario
Guys, should I put the 2 arts back-to-back at the begin of the post like this, or should I use slideshow?
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: 91 Days was not too bad.
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: Thanks for those two historical manga's head-up.
Anonymous1828434
Akumestu soo satisfying to read
Anonymous1828321
Thank you
Lenlo
A shame. Kokkoku had the first truly dull episode this week. Suppose one had to come eventually, but this one was mostly an info dump.
AidanAK47
Like lightning, I strike. Junji Ito is basically interesting ideas with deeply flawed execution. It's not scary, doesn't really capture Ito's style and the animation is bare bones. While the stories themselves can have there interesting points, they are often not fleshed out enough. Honestly I am getting rather bored with it.
Lenlo
Holy bejesus Aidan. Nice triple post. :P

So overall how is Junji Ito? From what ive read so far, it seems pretty hit or miss on the horror/gore front. Failing to live up to the manga. I havnt read it though, so im curious what ya think
AidanAK47
Akumetsu?
Anonymous1828142
Wearing a mask
Anonymous1828142
What was the name of the manga where the main character is some superhuman high school student who goes around fighting Japanese politicians
Lenlo
On a side note, I should really start Violet Evergarden at some point...
Lenlo
"Anime is dying" is just a meme that gets thrown around because of Miyazaki.
Lenlo
Maybe. I dont think average score per year is a good metric though, as the cash ins are increasing, but I doubt the passion projects are decreasing. For instance we had /alot/ of duds this year, but people only really remember/care about the good ones of which there was a fair number. It wasnt a bad year for decent/good anime.
AidanAK47
Well yeah, but they didn't have as many Animation studios back then as we do right now. So it's not so much that we lost artistic merit but rather the number of studios cashing in on popular trends for a quick buck have increased. Even then, I am willing to put money on there being just as much harem anime in yesteryear as we have cute girls shows in present.
Lenlo
Perhaps, but I would argue those were on smaller scales, and even then, thats not so different from Western animation or movies. Just look at Warner Bros and their DC push after the success of Marvel. Every industry has those who chase successful trends, yet they arnt failing
AidanAK47
@lenlo, the thing is though that before Moe crap there was eva copy crap and before eva copy crap you had space opera crap and before space opera crap you had hyperviolet OVA crap. The industry has always tried to cash in on a popular trend.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel people went apeshit over, say highschool of the dead because they never saw a bunch of old B/exploitation films, thus that show was never special to me and even failed at an imitation of such.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think people getting to excited for it being unique to a single medium or for, its setting themselve up for disappointment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I just think its incredibly limited thinking to base it all on just ONE medium, you CAN hold up anime to film when anaylzing anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why should 91 days get a free pass just because its an anime about gangsters? Go watch a film about it instead which theres probably many of, joker game fail you as the mature spy thriller it ended up not being, who cares, Tinker tailor soldier spy exists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I dislike this "Its unique for an anime/manga to do this, so instantly lets latch on to it, despite fact that same something is already extremely prevalent in other mediums "
Kaiser-Eoghan
Case in point 91 days and Joker game "It has adults, lets pre-rejoice before the show even came out"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel though because of the level of dissatisfaction with said moe shows that people are going to leap far too quickly on anything just slightly different, getting their hopes up too high and end up feeling let down.
Lenlo
That, or it all comes crashing down around our ears. With stuff like Houseki no Kuni and Made in Abyss from last year however, I think its going to be ok. We are just getting inundated with crap right now.
Lenlo
I do think that some of the artistic part of it has been lost, its gotten diluted in the never ending river of Moe crap. But that doesnt mean its gone. Just harder to find. Eventually all the random moe shows no one cares about will fail and stop getting made. But the anime audience will still be around, to enjoy the better stuff thats left.
Lenlo
Same thing happened in the mid/late 90's and early 00's to American cartoons.
Lenlo
Eh, I dont think anime is dying. Changing no doubt. Its going through a rough growth stage right now. It has a bigger audience than ever and people are trying to cash in on that with lots of shows that are basically the same
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Tank you and damn you for posting screencap of loli-tachibana, I now have cuteness overload a diabeetus =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I realize thats a very minor detail to focus on though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I can really really get into a history manga if the art is top quality, the costume designs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the historical thing, I have a massive I repeat massive thing for full body medieval armoured characters hacking the shit into things or just the armour in general , especially templar armour designs. I also have an little obsession with male aristocratic army uniforms from the Prussian era and world war 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That recent Urasawa manga Travlos mentioned is ending also
@Mario: We might get a complete adaptation of after the rain, the manga is ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More historical manga I found, haven't read the second one however, I didn't hear those two mentioned on here either before.
Kaiser-Eoghan
[link src="http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hawkwood
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Ad-Astra-Scipio-to-Hannibal"]
AidanAK47
@Anon, yes clearly you know better than everyone else on the planet despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up you claims. Thank you nameless Stranger, we owe you a debt for telling us the same thing we hear every year. Let me congratulate you by kicking you out the door.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can generally come up with an opinion for what I follow/watch/read , but I don't really have one on kokkuu.
KTravlos
Well we watched the first episode of Kokkuku. Interesting. The ED theme is quite the fanservice.
SuperMario
@Ktravlos: If your like to check out some other shows this season then I'd definitely recommend After the Rain.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: at least Kino is thought-provoking. I can't say the same for Violet Evergarden. In fact I remain skeptical with VE
KTravlos
I am quite enjoying both Violet Evergarden and Mahoutsukai. Violet gives me similar vibes to the first Kio series, though obviously Kino was a better series.
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the bad taste thing, I could easily say Mahouka or sword art are terrible, but back when I watched and loved code geass people where probably bashing it as overhyped shit in the same way people like to do with sword art/mahouka now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I sure years ago I would have been all over violet evergarden.
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