Posted by psgels on 6 May 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

An, so this is this season’s kid episode. I like it much better than the first season’s, because instead of giving character to one of the characters of Fate/Stay Night, it’s entended to shed some light into Kiritsugu’s background, and explain why he became a mage hunter. We see him as a kid, growing up on an island somewhere in the south of Japan that gets infested by what I’d call zombies, caused by the research of his father.

This explains that with all of the talk about lineage, we haven’t really seen anything about Kiritsugu’s parents so far. This episode doesn’t explain what happened to his mother, but I suspect that that’s got something to do with anime’s “weak and dead mother”-syndrome. What I liked about this episode is how well it fleshed out Kiritsugu and his childhood friend Shirley, together with Kiritsugu’s father… only for everything to fall apart.

One thing that I do wonder is what triggered Kiritsugu’s sudden character change at the end of the episode. I mean, I get that seeing your entire world being turned upside down is a huge shock, but would that turn Kiritsugu really from an innocent young boy who grew up normally, into a cold blooded killer with no fear of death whatsoever, in a matter of hours? The start of this episode whowed that he’s reckless, when he dived off that cliff higher than everyone else, but I don’t think that any other part of this episode hinted at that darker side of him.
Rating: ** (Excellent)

26 Responses

  1. Qwerty1 says:

    Whenever Kiritsugu did something you could call vicious I’d wonder what could have turned him into such a stone cold killer…

    Zombie-vampire island apocalypse wasn’t at the top of my short list.

  2. JaK says:

    actually psgels the last seasons “kid” episode was non canon filler XD this one is based on the heart of freak story from the light novel and is pretty detrimental to the actual story from kitsuragi’s pov

  3. IronZeta says:

    Basically, what turned him into a killer was realizing that him not killing Shirley before she became a Dead Apostle was what allowed the whole Dead outbreak to happen. Because of this he broke a little bit and from then on aggressively pursued the “kill few to save many” path.

    Natalia also commented in the novel that he was a bit broken in the head in that he was able to disconnect the logic of his actions from his own emotions in a way that normal people would need some years of mental drilling to learn.

    • meow says:

      I got the feeling that Shirley was his first love or at least his first crush. He was worried about her enough to disobey his father’s orders. There’s no way he would have been able to kill her. And yeah, I bet he blamed himself for what happened to the village for not being able to do it.

      And I bet he blamed his Dad for what happened to Shirley and the village too. Especially after that clinical, detached way he dismissed everything that had happened as a simple failed experiment. Reminds me of Tokiomi talking about sending Sakura to the Matous. I have a hard time believing he didn’t know what would be in store for Sakura when he sent her there. Another mage obsessed with the Root and blind to everything else. Might be worth noting that Kiri’s dad had dead eyes too. Well, no matter how angry or how justified he may have felt about taking out his Dad, it would have had an impact. It looked like Kiri almost cried on the boat but switched off.

      Who the blonde mage with the Mage Association? Very distinctive character design. Someone from somewhere else in the Nasuverse?

      I’m also very curious what happened to Shirley. We don’t actually see her get finished off. And you could say she was the “parent”. I’m surprised Natalia called them all “Dead Apostles”. I thought the zombies would have been classified as ghouls to Shirley the actual Dead Apostle, who actually retained some of her original personality. I wonder if she escaped.

      A very chilling episode. Even though I already had a rough idea what was going to happen, it still had quite a bit of impact.

      • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

        Let’s see… A blond magus with a distinctively familiar face and haircut, a powerful flame user who can cause a spontaneous eruption of blue flames… Doesn’t that sound familiar? Why, hello, Cornelius Alba-kun.

      • IronZeta says:

        “I thought the zombies would have been classified as ghouls”

        Well, this is where the waters are muddied a little bit.

        Because when you are bitten by a Dead Apostle, most of the time you will just become a Dead, that is just a mindless corpse under the control of the Dead Apostle that just eats people and sends energy to the Dead Apostle parent.

        And in rare cases if you have the potential you may become a Ghoul, which is feral but is actually capable of becoming stronger and becoming a Living Dead, which can then regain its original intelligence by sucking blood and possibly someday becoming a full Dead Apostle.

        The issue then comes in in that neither Dead, nor Ghouls, nor Living Dead are capable of making more of the Dead, only the Dead Apostle can do that.

        Which sort of contradicts what was shown in the episode. Since none of them were actual Dead Apostles (being mindless and shambling), and yet didn’t exhibit the usual Dead or Ghoul behavior of eating people while at the same time being able to spread the infection, an ability belonging to the Dead Apostles.

        So either ufotable just weren’t well-versed in the Dead Apostles, or Noritaka’s test reagent was somehow responsible for the special infectiousness of this particular outbreak.

        • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

          What you have described is the life cycle of a Dead Apostle whose origin of vampirism is the blood of a True Ancestor, which is not necessarily the case here. Vampirism achieved via magic research may have different traits. Think Nero Chaos as an example – he is classified as a Dead Apostle whereas in fact he might be closer to a true demon, being practically a walking Reality Marble.

          • IronZeta says:

            Well, I did leave that possibility open, which is why I suggested that “Noritaka’s test reagent was somehow responsible for the special infectiousness of this particular outbreak.”
            Either way, it’s not really important in the long run.

      • Civlov says:

        “Another mage obsessed with the Root and blind to everything else.”

        Actually, Noritaka cares at the least about Kiritsugu as much as Tokiomi cares about Sakura, which means: a lot. Noritaka pretty much raised Kiritsugu alone, since his wife was killed by the Enforcers after Kiritsugu was born. He was actually done packing all that stuff and would have immediately fled if Kiritsugu hadn’t been gone. More details like embracing Kiritsugu or the narrator’s notes make clear there was a strong father-son bond between them.

        Kiritsugu already turned into a machine partially when he killed his father. He hesitated in his heart, but his body pulled the trigger anyway, so he was already a bit out of his mind. But yeah, he killed his father to prevent another incident like in this episode here and because his father was the cause, although it was an accident. Must have hurt his heart a lot, losing everything and everyone he cared for.

        And I can assure you Tokiomi did not know what exactly Sakura would have to endure. The Matou family exists for 500 years already and the records about their magecraft is extremely limited. Zouken lives for 200 years now, but neither the Association nor the Tohsaka clan as the Second Owners of Fuyuki knew much about him – one of the reasons being the Matou family’s attribute absorption and Zouken never really leaving his house except for maintaining his body. It’s because of Tokiomi’s limited thinking that he saw no other choice but to give her away. There must certainly have been better options, but he didn’t find them.

        Btw, Noritaka and Shirley were geniuses. Shirley got a Master’s degree at the age of 13(she should be around 14 when the incident happened), although the education at the island sucks and Noritaka was already hiding for 20 years from the Association’s Enforcers after getting his Sealing Designation, which is quite impressive for a fourth generation magus. All he needed to complete his research was… ha, time. And conveniently, the Dead Apostle immortality and his theory to reach the Root work with time manipulation. Two birds with one stone for him I guess.

        • meow says:

          He was actually done packing all that stuff and would have immediately fled if Kiritsugu hadn’t been gone.

          Hm. It looks like this was changed in the anime. He was just burning his notes and his bags were still half-open when Kiri arrived.

          More details like embracing Kiritsugu or the narrator’s notes make clear there was a strong father-son bond between them.

          Difficult to believe from this episode. Would have made what Kiri did much more chilling and more difficult to comprehend/emphasize with. Was Noritaya’s detached behavior spot on with the novel? I got the impression that Kiri wanted to confront his Dad and decide from there what to do. It was his Dad’s cold/neutral response that sealed the deal. The flashbacks of Chihaya during the shooting also gave me the impression that a lot of the reason Kiri killed his Dad was because he felt his Dad was responsible for what happened to Shirley.

          He hesitated in his heart, but his body pulled the trigger anyway, so he was already a bit out of his mind.

          Didn’t get depicted well in the anime. I got the feeling that he fully intended to kill his Dad, with almost no hesitation. If anything, shooting him at that point would have been a mercy, rather than a slow lingering death from a gut wound. He just had trouble letting go of the gun afterwards, as if it was stuck to his hand.

          And I can assure you Tokiomi did not know what exactly Sakura would have to endure.

          I don’t buy it. While ordinarily the Matous may be isolated from the Mage Association in general, they would have been closely linked to the Tohsakas for generations, collaborating on the Grail War ritual’s development. It’s difficult to believe that during all that time, the Tohsakas hadn’t picked up on the nature of Matou magic, especially since Zouken has been there from the beginning. Tokiomi also didn’t seem surprised at Kariya’s powers or how he suffered using them. Kariya and Tokiomi had known each other for a long time and were rivals for Aoi, no? I would be surprised if Tokiomi didn’t have some awareness for why Kariya left the Matous in the first place. Even Aoi didn’t seem to have any consideration for Kariya’s reasons for leaving the path of the Mage. I don’t see Sakura’s suffering as a factor when Tokiomi decided where to place Sakura. I would buy him thinking the Matous would owe him something for getting their heir from the Tohsakas and dismissing whatever suffering she had to go through as necessary for reaching the Root, just like Noritaka dismissing the loss of Shirley and the village.

          • Civlov says:

            That’s a general problem from anime and novel. The narrator makes clear that he cares about Kiritsugu a lot, while the anime isn’t very good in doing this. Actually, Noritaka raised Kiritsugu alone because his wife was killed by the Association shortly after giving birth.

            Kiritsugu was definitely waiting for his father’s answer about the incident. Since Noritaka wanted to pursue his research without regretting anything, he “had to” be removed to prevent another incident like this. That’s Kiritsugu’s logic. He no longer hesitates to sacrifice the people he loves, if it can save the majority.

            they would have been closely linked to the Tohsakas for generations

            Not really. They say they are in friendly terms, but besides cooperating to create the Grail, there was never much close going on between these two families.

            Matou magecraft’s attributes are absorption and binding. Furthermore, they are quite skilled with familiars, that’s all one knows about the Matou – nothing more besides this. Zouken never really stepped in any battles for all this time, he was hardly leaving his house at all. The knowledge about other families are always limited, in this case it’s even more extreme, believe it or not.

            Rin prepared herself the next ten years for the war and the information she found about Matou is rather lacking. She only truly realized what kind of monster Zouken is when she found the basement with the worms in Heaven’s Feel. No one except for the Matou family knew what was going on.

            Do you really think he wanted Sakura to get raped by worms and her step-brother for the next 11 years? He wanted the best for Sakura, the suffering would be more something like home sickness or adapting another magecraft that might not suit her as much as Tohsaka magecraft. My dream scenario was Zelretch to come and train her. That would have been just perfect.

            Kariya and Tokiomi had known each other for a long time and were rivals for Aoi, no?

            No. Aoi sees Kariya as a little brother. They were never rivals because Kariya never seriously tried to approach Aoi, thus Aoi never knew about Kariya’s feelings. I said it already numerous times, she is stupid as hell.

            I would be surprised if Tokiomi didn’t have some awareness for why Kariya left the Matous in the first place.

            That’s the thing about Tokiomi. He never understood why Kariya would leave and just dismissed Kariya as someone who would not want to take responsibility as a magus. He simply didn’t care about Kariya and never seriously questioned why he was doing whatever.

            Tokiomi also didn’t seem surprised at Kariya’s powers or how he suffered using them.

            Any magus who has the tiniest bit of experience will realize that Kariya suffers because he keeps pushing himself. He never trained his body or magecraft and now he took in ridiculous amounts of worms to compensate for this. Furthermore he only had 1 year to become a Master. This was Kariya’s problem and not just the Matou magecraft’s fault. And as I’ve said, controlling familiars(bugs) isn’t something Tokiomi wasn’t aware of.

            Tokiomi seriously thought that the trade was better for Sakura. The cons were only to forget that Sakura was ever a Tohsaka and no longer interact with Matou or interfere, as well as Sakura having a difficult time at the beginning. He thought it was worth it, as long as Sakura would get the magecraft and protection she needs to survive. The family adopting her being an old and once powerful family which tries to reach Akasha too(or not, but he doesn’t know that) was a nice bonus.

            Unlike Noritaka, Tokiomi was not a genius. Noritaka managed to fool the Association and the Enforcers for 20 years after getting his Sealing Designation. Tokiomi likely didn’t think he could hide or protect Sakura for long if the Association had ever found her.

  4. Rachnid says:

    That was probably some of the darkest stuff i’ve seen in awhile. Turning into a zombie because you believed that magic would do good? Killing your father for his research which result was completely unintended (also unintentionally causing the death of your crush)? so DARK I love it.

  5. anon says:

    “One thing that I do wonder is what triggered Kiritsugu’s sudden character change at the end of the episode.”

    You remember that scene half-way in, with Shirley and Kiritsugu by the pond? She asked what kind of person he wanted to grow up to be. His answer isn’t said in the novel like here, but the general idea is that he had the same dream as his adopted son (the male lead of Fate/Stay Night) and that was to be a hero of justice. He realized not only that letting Shirley live caused everyone else to die, but more importantly that his father wasn’t going to stop researching the zombies we saw and didn’t even care that the village had been destroyed.

    So he decided after listening to his dad that in order to stop the possibility of a repeat tragedy he had to kill his dad. Of course it’s a pretty insane thing to do, especially to your family – even the hunter woman (her name is Natalia) acknowledged as much. But this is just the beginning – Kiritsugu was more or less with Natalia for the rest of his adolescent life until she was killed herself. So in that time he became much more cold hearted and resolved in his efforts to save people by killing other people.

    His basic idea is this: I can save 100 people, but I need to kill 10 people to do that. I can save 100000, but I need to kill 100 people to do that. Originally he tried saving everyone, but realized he couldn’t. So he ended up bloodying his hands multiple times for the sake of saving people who wouldn’t even know his name.

    I suggest rewatching the speech that he and Saber had after the Lancer-Kayneth-Sola trio died. It makes a lot more sense now when you have the context of his life before he decided to become the hunter’s assistant and be like her.

    • jkuro says:

      Wow, thanks for the Natalia spoilers, dude. Seriously, is self control that fucking difficult?

      • Anca says:

        You could infer that much from the portion after the ending, it’s not a spoiler.

      • anon says:

        Its hardly a spoiler to give her name and if he never mentions her then I think it’s pretty obvious? Along with the very last moment after they leave the island. If you read the Light Novel her death is stated there, they only cut it out because there would be no time so it’s pretty much assumed. If I was giving you a spoiler I would be telling you straight out how she died.

    • wicked says:

      It’s really Shirou who adopted Kiritsugu’s ideal to be a hero, Archer said as much that his ideal are borrowed. He knows of magicians and magicraft, but actually harbors deep resentment of it. It not only shun him from people, he also understands it to be something not held back by any value of people or sense of right or wrong. He was happy in the village and was somewhat accepted by people other than his father. He thought differently of his father because his research may save the world, but in the end, his father stated clearly that he was not going to stop.

      It’s kind of a Batman begins thing for Kiritsugu, it’s an awakening of an ideal to save people, but also somewhat of a vengeance thing to fight the system that created the tragedies .

      • meow says:

        Talking about Kiri right? Yeah, I’m not sure how much magic knowledge he had. I think he just saw his dad’s experiments as growing blossoms that were fixed in time. They didn’t grow red eyes and kill people. Kiri’s Dad’s experiments seemed to be about making humans immortal but he was experimenting with vampirism/necromancy to do it and it wound up turning people into mindless bloodthirsty monsters.

        It’s kind of a Batman begins thing for Kiritsugu

        The sticking point is him having to kill his Dad to stop him. That was pretty chilling. I mean, his Dad did something horrible but it was unintentional. Hm…maybe that wasn’t clear to Kiri. And his Dad seemed to lack remorse and was ready to try again. Still, to kill the only family he had, his only caregiver he’d known all his life. Even Bruce spared his teacher. This is grim stuff. I wonder how dark the next episode will be.

        • wicked says:

          In the Typemoon created universe, Magicians/magus are essentially essentially define by family and bloodlines, as Kenneth pointed out in class Waver was attending. He may not know the nature of his father’s work, but he knew he will eventually be a successor to his father’s work which should imply that he knew about magicraft and magi’s purpose. Even children born without magical talent knew about aspects of life of magus, like Shinji in Fate/Stay night

          Kiritsugu definitely made a much much darker decision, but also one that took a different kind of resolve. I wasnt really making a parallel between him and batman, rather I mark it as a moment of transformation. It seems abrupt that he had a change of character, but it was meant to be tranformative. It was not about whether it’s intentional or not, but the fact that his dad will definitely start again. He probably knew that before his father told him, and it’s probably why he lied to the hunter and insisted on going in himself(I think he lied about a barrier), as the father probably could escape from the hunter.

          • meow says:

            Incidentally, Natalia was working for the Mage Association. Was she there to kill Noritaka or capture him alive so the Association could have him continue his work for their benefit? It doesn’t seem clear in the anime.

            I wasnt really making a parallel between him and batman

            Um no, I kind of wasn’t either. It’s a bad example. At that point, the League of Shadows hadn’t actually done anything yet, as far as Bruce knew. They just had extreme intentions. Kiri, on the other hand had to bear witness to his first love turning into a monster, understandably failing to stop her and then having to feel responsibility for the death of a whole village that were friendly with him, including children and a priest. And the root of all that evil was his father’s work. I can’t blame him for wanting to stop his father no matter what, even if it meant killing him. It’s very, very sad. It might have helped if Noritaka had managed to find and stop Shirley himself before she started afflicting the other villagers. It looked like he had become aware of the situation much earlier, which is why he ordered his son not to go to the village. So why didn’t he stop Shirley himself? Did he leave her alone hoping she’d be able to control her bloodlust and complete his research? When the worst happened, he didn’t have any contingency to protect the villagers or perhaps was counting on an outbreak to act as interference against the Mage Association so he and Kiri could escape?

  6. Anca says:

    I’m glad I read the comments here as I really didn’t understand Kiritsugu’s mindset. To me it was like they changed his character halfway for convenience and angst purposes; I wonder how many others thought the same. I really like this sort of subtleness, where I don’t understand everything at first glance.

    The ED is pretty neat. Isn’t it Manten that was released along with the OP? I already thought the song was better that most other bonus songs artists put on a single, so I guess this is why,

  7. omo says:

    The episode sets up the mercy kill opportunity to give contrast, hoping that it will provide enough of a reason for the patricide. I guess it may not work so well unless you are familiar with fate/stay night or fate/zero already.

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Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Now if only someone will translate the side story manga aswell.
KTravlos
Happiness! New chapters of Gunka no Baltazar!
Bokusen
@SuperMario Thanks! I'll give Houseki no Kuni a try then. A lot of the series I thought would be good are disappointing me, so I might be following a low number of series this season & it'd be cool if Houseki turns out to be something I like enough to watch this season.^-^
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right. The sole reason I described it as "cinematic" was just to lure you into watching it, so mission accomplished! Mind you, Girls' Last Tour is still a moe show at heart (look at their round faces and those big eyes. They're killing me)
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, I had had it initially written off as a crap moe show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: You're ministry of anime propaganda tactics mentioning how cinematic it is got me to pick it up =P And you know how much of an aesthetics guy I am =P
SuperMario
I'm glad that many of you enjoying Girls' Last Tour. It's a nice little gem that I think works best when you going to it without any expectation
SuperMario
I swear this season has a lot of good anime to offer. I'm jaded
Amagi
I always considered backgrounds as pretty important. Most anime only use them as backdrops because they have to be there somehow and it's really a different thing than Girls' Last Journey for example. Also I will like everything that has exploration and world building.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And achieves taking the viewer into its world, thankfully without relying on tons of expositional dialogue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Girls last tour, somewhat succeeds in pulling me in by using its landscape that dwarfs the characters, to create its atmosphere, I wouldn't call it all that unfunny either. Though premise could risk going stale.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, HA! Yeah I would like to believe but I am thinking that's not the case. Besides next season is looking pretty barren so far.
Amagi
Eden would be great. But speaking of it, a lot of good manga get adapted recently. Maybe they finally understood that generic isekai, harem and school stuff isn't as popular as they thought it would be.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe one day I can hope for a Freesia or Eden Endless world adaptation.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Jesus christ....I never thought it would happen, Banana fish is being adapted, I didn't think they could adapt a shoujo like that in todays market.
KTravlos
I also watched Inuyashiki and Girl's Last Tour. Inuyashiki looks great. Man do I hate that young guy. Reading what he did and seeing it was a totally different experience. Cannot wait for the next episode.

Girls Last Tour is really something special. In a good way.
KTravlos
Altair's episode showed all the issues and all the good things of the show. The pace is too quick, and yet they managed to build Urado and its denizens up quick fast in it. But again, this is a show that needs the LGOH treatment.
Amagi
The manga also always uses "he/him" but I am not sure if the original had this too (like "kare" or similar words) since you can talk for a long time in Japanese without ever using pronouns.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, yes I noticed Phos uses Boku in this episode which is the male way of saying I.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Man, Zvyagintsev really, really knows how to deliver truly emotional gut punching moments and endings that are like cutting at open wounds.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Houseki has fallen into place for me with those scenes with Dia and the snail thing and I've fully embraced the show, happy to see it just continue to do its thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: While Marios are girls best friend DIAmonds ahhhhre for evvvvvvahhh *Shirley Basey voice*
Masky
*bride
Masky
I can say though that if people fear the "Bastard Boyfiend" angle, its not that really. Its more of really weird apprenticeship relationship. Ainsworth is inhuman character in many ways
Masky
Oh hey, Mahoutsukai no Yome is on covered list. Nice, it is weird manga to read through since I'm kind of creeped out by the bribe thing, but its barely mentioned at all.
Anonymous1497942
After finishing Made in Abyss it stuck out, some animation shortcuts in this week's Mahoutsukai. Holding on frames a bit too long, mainly having the music giving the emotion. To be fair, it was also a slow part in the manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If I recall correctly, the words "wandering Jew" were used at one point in the manga in relation to the villain.
Lenlo
Mahoutsukai was very pretty this week, but there were some troubling things popping up in there.
SuperMario
@Aidan: They are trying to bring Phos back from a snail. Man, Houseki sure is... quirky
AidanAK47
@Mario, I would take a guess and say they are fighting evil by moonlight.
SuperMario
Okay, heading to Houseki now... let's see our gems doing this week
SuperMario
@Bokusen: (not because I'm blogging it but) watch it. it's a polarized one but it at least offers something original. I still haven't watched the third one though.
Anonymous1497873
The new Mahoutsukai no Yome episode was so beautiful. TwT
Bokusen
BTW, is Houseki no Kuni worth watching? I was turned off by the animation, but I've read some good reviews on it.
Bokusen
Darn, last message didn't show up for me but now it does. Sorry about that.
Bokusen
Tanya the Evil and Uchouten Kazoku 2 were the gems this year for me so far, but Abyss was definitely the best thing I watched last season.
Bokusen
Tanya the Evil & Uchouten Kazoku 2 were the gems this year for me so far, though Abyss was definitely the best thing I watched last season.
Amagi
Doesn't mean that there weren't other good series but I distinguish between good and somethin special I will instantly remember even months or years later.
Amagi
How can you not like at least one of the current series, this season is pretty good. MiA was probably my only real great thing in the last season though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Aren't you forgetting Acca, Rakugo, Little Witch Academia and Tanya the Evil?
Anonymous1497006
Made in Abyss seems like it's the only gem this year for me tbh
AidanAK47
Whoa, I never even knew we had a PM feature.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I've received it. Thanks Kaiser. I've never noticed the PM feature either
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I sent you a private message.
SuperMario
oh boy. Just received Mind Game Bluray Region free today. I ordered/funded it through Kickstarter a year ago and eventually forgot about it. Was a nice surprise to see it in the mail today
silver
I enjoyed this week's Kino. Leave only footprints indeed.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the other hand I noticed some slight censoring in juuni taisen episode 3 I think.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was also surprised with the lack of censorship during Inuyashiki's second episode.
Kaiser-Eoghan
First episode of inuyashiki covered the whole of volume 1.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*but almost never
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: In general, Death of Stalin is an amusing film throughout, but never laugh out loud hilarious, Simon Beale is hilarious in it as Beria.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Gonzo did that mecha 7 samurai thing we must never speak of. However schmaltzly/sentimental Ikiru is, however it slumps slightly in the middle and final arc , it was still a genuinely moving film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*than it is
Kaiser-Eoghan
To elaborate, I expected to dislike inuyashiki based on not enjoying Gantz, my reaction to the second episode was the same as Amagi's . The first episode was heavy handed a bit as Aidan mentioned, but its harder to watch that scene with the older guy get bullied/tormented that it is to watch highschool kids getting picked on by cliche anime thugs.
AidanAK47
Also why Hillary Clinton? I mean i know Trump is supposed to have a cameo in the manga but why her?
AidanAK47
@Vyse, Lets not jinx it. Plenty of series have shown great potential in their second episodes only to flop later. We can sing praises if it keeps this quality to the conclusion.
VyseLegendaire
Inuyashiki main villain should be Hillary Clinton
VyseLegendaire
Inuyashiki is suddenly like the best thing of the decade.
Amagi
I wish there were more old MC series out there. Liked that about Real Drive too. Maybe someone will have mercy and adapt Kurosawa one day. Not exactly old but at least a series about a guy with midlife crisis.
Amagi
I thought the happenings of the second Inuyashiki episode would have been too egdy but they actually gave the last few scenes a very good impact and the episode showed pretty well how sociopathes think (that whole gap between emotions for real people VS manga/fiction characters and events)
KTravlos
yup, I have no problem with Lenlo's review. Execution is what matters with me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: You managed to sell me on a show that I didn't think I'd have bothered with.
silver
You did fine. It's a risk associated with reading post-viewing episodic discussions. Pretty much everyone knows that if you don't want to be spoiled don't even get online.
Lenlo
I tried to leave explicit spoilers about what happened outside the (more...) tag, but its a risk of readin a review I suppose.
silver
Hah, sorry about spoiling it. That's the problem with major shocks like that; they're most effective if you're not expecting them. Still, the show has deft execution of its executions, and that makes the experience worse than I could imagine.
Lenlo
Well im glad it convinced you. Tried something different with writing this week
KTravlos
man I should not had read the review. Now I will go and watch Inuyashiki. I had missed it.
silver
@Lenlo: It caught me off guard, too. Definitely working to earn that 'psychological' genre tag.
Lenlo
Well... Inuyashiki surprised me today. It went far darker than I was expecting. Thanks Gants author
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Such an odd art style, have you ever seen these? These are the film covers the Polish get:
Kaiser-Eoghan
*that was the most interesting character
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Z's ending was very very well played and it was Jean Tringnents was interesting, largely for that he was a right winger working with the left wingers.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And of course the British version of house of cards.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wonder if he's seen Yes Minister and The New Statesman, also political comedies and for those of us who lived in the 80s seeing Thatcherites getting slagged off was great.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I do think thick of it works better though as the humour serves a thirty minute episode more comfortably. Stalin's fairly short though so I don't think the joke will run out.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: the Death of stalin is the title I'm looking for as well. Will screen here in few weeks. I almost reccomend In the Loop and the Thick of It (haven't watched the latter though) for Travlos since they're a political satire, which I think he'll enjoy
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Hope you already booked that heavens feel screening, cause its sold out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've heard that the anime's character development in Juuni taisen expands on the books, which only give them short lines for their backgrounds.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, so perhaps in Juuni taisen they'll spin that so the Rat guy uses the ox guy to his advantage in some different way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: There is a special atmosphere watching anime on a big screen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I might be seeing death of Stalin tomorrow or Saturday. The thick of it was hilarious and this has the same director as that.
SuperMario
Both Z and All the President's Men are coassic movie. Hold my attention from start to finish. Z, in particular, wowed me that I literally had my mouth wide open
SuperMario
Off tangent, watching Fireworks in the cinema the other day made me realize how I miss watching movies on the big screen. I might try to go to the cinema once a week again. Been missed out all the good movies lately.
SuperMario
In the Great Race story, Rat used a very underhanded tactic to win the race (it jumps into the Ox to pass the great river and then jump off to the finish line. This Rat guy's speciality is Killing All so there is a high chance that he survives till the end
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I have no doubt that we will have more amazing character arcs for Juuni Taisen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But that could prove to be too predictable.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wonder if the Rat guy is going to be the wild card in all this, after all in the old story, wasn't it the Rat who won that zodiac race thing?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Juuni Taisen is killing off its most interesting characters.... =< I wanted the bird girl to stay around a bit longer.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd love to see more Lem or Stugastky style/brand of scifi, I need to rewatch stalker again.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Going back to the cyberpunk thing, I don't want just any ol' thing getting made, I want to see something scifi related thats ACTUALLY clever and has long and DIFFICULT dialogue .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: While not a political series Chaos;head is a good example of being annoyed at the conspiracy thing, what drives me up the wall about that show and its sequel is how every every time I think about going back to it I realize that its only interesting on a surface level and is utter hokkum.
KTravlos
@Kaiser. Yup, perhaps because I work in political science, they tend to anger me. So I avoid them. Borgen is a good political series.

In general. It still startles how much of a better character anime Tsutomu was comapred to manga Tsutomu in Bridy the Mighty. But I forgive the manga as I get more Gomez!
AidanAK47
@Amagi/Kaiser, thought as much. Strike it off the list then. And God Tsubasa was a cluster fuck by the end.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh simul-dub of Juuni taisen is out, I might aswell keep up with that instead.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Y'know I had this weird relationship with dragonball in general. When I was younger I never actively seeked out the show, but on a rare occasion I would watch random episodes whenever I was channel hopping and nothing else was on.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Clamp shared universe was a mistake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really really wish that that tone breaking style of comedy stops being a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It doesn't happen often, but there ARE shows we all have that snap trigger us when they get mentioned.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel my disdain of re:zero is because I hate Akame ga kill and Higurashi so much and it prevents me because of bias from enjoying it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: In addition to what i posted about Pandora, you will hate the comedy.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I will rewatch it, the first one is one of those things that improved on repeat viewings.
@Travlos: Conspiracy theories are one of those things I find myself taking interest in, then almost immediately consider immensely stupid and a waste of time.
Amagi
Aidan: If you didn't like the first parts of Pandora you won't like the rest either. Most people that loved it did this because of the characters and setting, the story isn't really getting better and I kinda disliked what they did near the end. It was overcomplicated and everyone had like three different personalities, plot twists and so on. Not nearly as bad as Tsubasa Chronicle though
AidanAK47
@Bokusenou, believe me when I say you are not few. There are plenty who Dislike Re:Zero. I can understand it and I sort of get where your coming from regarding the characters. (Though Saber sucks) There is just something about the series that I just adore.
KTravlos
@Kaiser. I have not watched most of them. But I have watched Z and All the President's Men. Both are great films. The issue with me is that while I like political thrillers I despite conspiracy theories. Far too many pol. thrillers dive into con.theory stuff. So I must be discriminating.
SuperMario
Okay, I'm off to watch Blade Runner 2049 now. Hopefully it can be as good as the original
Vonter
In contrast World's End Harem, surprisingly looks to be trying. It has one story trying to play straight, the scenario of being the last man in a world mainly habited by woman. And has had this framing of self worth, temptation and doubt I like. No work of art, but surprising for this type of manga.
Vonter
In regards to manga, I'll need to look for something good, being losing time with ecchi stuff. Which I can tell Okamoto should just make hentai, seeing as his latest work, doesn't even try to be anymore than pandering trash (at least older work, had a notion of a story).
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Did all the presidents men and Parallax view by Pakula appeal to you?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Actually as your are a Greek....have you watched Z, missing, State of siege or the confession? None of them are actually in Greek but they were political thrillers directed by Costa Gravas.
Anonymous1490677
KT here: Well I am a sucker for political thrillers and "grand" politics, so the direction it took is quite fun for me. Even if it does indicate a Tomino ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
For me Titan peaked at volume 8 and I never bothered continuing on much further.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I remember a commenters on here a good while ago that mentioned the ending didn't satisfy or come together well and made the investment not worth it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Honestly it was only near the halfway point I vested any interest in pandora hearts, the first 4 volumes left me wondering if I'd drop it, then near the last few volumes I simply fell out of reading it.
Bokusenou
I feel like I'm one of the few people who don't understand why Re: Zero is so popular...the only characters I half liked were Puck & Crusch (the latter because she reminded me of Saber from the Fate series, minus the unnecessary perma-blush marks) My anime club screened the series and I really should have skipped those meetings...
Lenlo
Mmm Inuyashiki episode 2 tomorrow. Time to see where it goes
AidanAK47
@Anon, That reminds me. Anime limited better announce the date of the Re:Zero Blu-ray release at that panel of theirs at MCM London Comic Con. They are the only ones known to have licensed it and they have a partnership with Funimation. Even if we don't get a second season I have to get the first on Blu-ray.
Anonymous1490189
Emilia re:zero
AidanAK47
Finally Got that review up. Been sitting in my to do list for a while.
SuperMario
I remeber in Dragon ball, they state that Son Goku takes 6 years of training to become a Super Saiyan. His oldest son takes 3 years and then the youngest one... only takes 3 months of training with his mother. So yeah...
AidanAK47
While we are talking about manga, I was looking into getting some manga boxsets and I saw one for pandora hearts. However I started reading it and 15 chapters in I just can't get into it. I hear a lot of praise for it but is it really worth continuing?
AidanAK47
@Amagi, yep. Like Naruto with the nine tailed beasts and Sharingan. At first they were cool and then everyone and their mother had Sharingan or a tailed Beast.
Though If I had a problem with SNK its that I just find the thing to be poorly written overall. It has creative idea's, but the characters and dialogue is really weak in my eyes.
Amagi
You know that SuperSaiyan syndrome. At first it was special and mysterious, but once the second one gets to have the power they tend to pop up everywhere. Same with Claymore and basically almost every shounen ever.
Amagi
I overall like the SNK manga but I have to agree I really have a problem with this shounen trope of some speciality one character has that suddently turn out to be the speciality of many.
Lenlo
It turned from a horror/thriller to a sort of... shounen mystery thing for me. I wasnt a fan once EVERYONE became titans.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I dropped off at that point, picked it up again and read it up to date. Now I am falling out again. True be told I haven't really got into it since the beginning chapters and I am not a fan of the direction it took. If you don't like it now I say future chapters won't really change your mind.
Lenlo
Does Attack on Titan get better? I was reading it up until Season 2 came out and then just fell off the wagon.
KTravlos
oh what a cliffhanger in the Shingeki no Koyjin manga! I am happy where this is going!
Kaiser-Eoghan
I agree that the way the series addresses emotion has some interest to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The later chapters I read had some action in them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Had a read of the children of the wales manga, I am glad to see a shoujo that isn't based on an otome or school life series , additionally I like it on an aesthetic level, I can see it going somewhere but the fast-forward pace makes it hakes it harder to connect with.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Blame! was recently adapted and thats cyberpunk, even if it didn't follow the manga.
Amagi
@Kaiser: Agree. Cyber- and steampunk are two of the few settings I really dig. Especially because I think that there are a lot of potential plots and twists for cyberpunk/VR settings anime haven't used yet. AR is great too, the only series about that is Dennou Coil and it was made ~10 years ago. Maybe the SAO movie but it was just a movie.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here lol. I remember the toilet thingy but not the woman's backstory. That being said, I enjoyed the series as whole, though some parts were too K-ONish for my taste.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of would agorophobia maintain itself and they'd stay inside or would the fear of being raped/tortured/killed and bypass the agorophobia ?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Random tangent, but I would find it fascinating to see a hikkikomori subject to a home invasion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although honestly, I would prefer a cyberpunk wave of anime series to get popular again.
silver
I too am starting to really enjoy the 'adventure anime' genre. The medium of animation is uniquely suited to fantastical worldbuilding.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Was that the one where the girl is desperately trying not to piss herself? Also why can I remember that and not this blonde woman's backstory?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yep, agreed. It's at its best when it can use the settings to flesh out the characters. The episode after that one, one the other hand, was Sora no woto's dullest episode - where the main girl spends the whole episode waiting for a freaking phone call.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Blonde woman's backstory in the middle of sora no oto, that was the best episode of it.
SuperMario
@Amagi: for reccomendation, if you don't mind another cute girls in a post-apocalyptic world show, you can try Sora no Woto (Sound of the sky). I love that show to bits
SuperMario
But I'm not entirely sold on the show yet. I feel the relationships are a tad too heavy-handed. The light hearted tones don't work well for me but I really feel a From the New world's vibe from the show
SuperMario
@Amagi: I will talk about Children of the Whales here in the chatbox since we don't cover it. Damnit the cliffhanger. That series really focuses on the theme of repress their own feelings. From the children in the Mud Whales with their custom of not to cry in the funeral or their lacing their hands to express their gratitude. Episode 2 has that monster who basically eats others emotions
Kaiser-Eoghan
And by extension, I would hope that it would encourage adaptations of older fantasy manga aswell.
Amagi
I really hope this type of fantasy will become a new trend instead of the classical world of warcraft type of isekai
Amagi
There is just something really atmospherical about a few characters exploring an unknown world alone that is either almost or entirely devoid of humans or just weird like in Kino's Journey.
Amagi
Shuumatsu Shoujou, Houseki, Kino 2017 and Children of the Whales are shaping up to become my favorites this season. It's funny that they have so much in common, same with Made in Abyss, which also was my favorite of the last season.
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