Posted by psgels on 6 May 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

An, so this is this season’s kid episode. I like it much better than the first season’s, because instead of giving character to one of the characters of Fate/Stay Night, it’s entended to shed some light into Kiritsugu’s background, and explain why he became a mage hunter. We see him as a kid, growing up on an island somewhere in the south of Japan that gets infested by what I’d call zombies, caused by the research of his father.

This explains that with all of the talk about lineage, we haven’t really seen anything about Kiritsugu’s parents so far. This episode doesn’t explain what happened to his mother, but I suspect that that’s got something to do with anime’s “weak and dead mother”-syndrome. What I liked about this episode is how well it fleshed out Kiritsugu and his childhood friend Shirley, together with Kiritsugu’s father… only for everything to fall apart.

One thing that I do wonder is what triggered Kiritsugu’s sudden character change at the end of the episode. I mean, I get that seeing your entire world being turned upside down is a huge shock, but would that turn Kiritsugu really from an innocent young boy who grew up normally, into a cold blooded killer with no fear of death whatsoever, in a matter of hours? The start of this episode whowed that he’s reckless, when he dived off that cliff higher than everyone else, but I don’t think that any other part of this episode hinted at that darker side of him.
Rating: ** (Excellent)

26 Responses

  1. Qwerty1 says:

    Whenever Kiritsugu did something you could call vicious I’d wonder what could have turned him into such a stone cold killer…

    Zombie-vampire island apocalypse wasn’t at the top of my short list.

  2. JaK says:

    actually psgels the last seasons “kid” episode was non canon filler XD this one is based on the heart of freak story from the light novel and is pretty detrimental to the actual story from kitsuragi’s pov

  3. IronZeta says:

    Basically, what turned him into a killer was realizing that him not killing Shirley before she became a Dead Apostle was what allowed the whole Dead outbreak to happen. Because of this he broke a little bit and from then on aggressively pursued the “kill few to save many” path.

    Natalia also commented in the novel that he was a bit broken in the head in that he was able to disconnect the logic of his actions from his own emotions in a way that normal people would need some years of mental drilling to learn.

    • meow says:

      I got the feeling that Shirley was his first love or at least his first crush. He was worried about her enough to disobey his father’s orders. There’s no way he would have been able to kill her. And yeah, I bet he blamed himself for what happened to the village for not being able to do it.

      And I bet he blamed his Dad for what happened to Shirley and the village too. Especially after that clinical, detached way he dismissed everything that had happened as a simple failed experiment. Reminds me of Tokiomi talking about sending Sakura to the Matous. I have a hard time believing he didn’t know what would be in store for Sakura when he sent her there. Another mage obsessed with the Root and blind to everything else. Might be worth noting that Kiri’s dad had dead eyes too. Well, no matter how angry or how justified he may have felt about taking out his Dad, it would have had an impact. It looked like Kiri almost cried on the boat but switched off.

      Who the blonde mage with the Mage Association? Very distinctive character design. Someone from somewhere else in the Nasuverse?

      I’m also very curious what happened to Shirley. We don’t actually see her get finished off. And you could say she was the “parent”. I’m surprised Natalia called them all “Dead Apostles”. I thought the zombies would have been classified as ghouls to Shirley the actual Dead Apostle, who actually retained some of her original personality. I wonder if she escaped.

      A very chilling episode. Even though I already had a rough idea what was going to happen, it still had quite a bit of impact.

      • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

        Let’s see… A blond magus with a distinctively familiar face and haircut, a powerful flame user who can cause a spontaneous eruption of blue flames… Doesn’t that sound familiar? Why, hello, Cornelius Alba-kun.

      • IronZeta says:

        “I thought the zombies would have been classified as ghouls”

        Well, this is where the waters are muddied a little bit.

        Because when you are bitten by a Dead Apostle, most of the time you will just become a Dead, that is just a mindless corpse under the control of the Dead Apostle that just eats people and sends energy to the Dead Apostle parent.

        And in rare cases if you have the potential you may become a Ghoul, which is feral but is actually capable of becoming stronger and becoming a Living Dead, which can then regain its original intelligence by sucking blood and possibly someday becoming a full Dead Apostle.

        The issue then comes in in that neither Dead, nor Ghouls, nor Living Dead are capable of making more of the Dead, only the Dead Apostle can do that.

        Which sort of contradicts what was shown in the episode. Since none of them were actual Dead Apostles (being mindless and shambling), and yet didn’t exhibit the usual Dead or Ghoul behavior of eating people while at the same time being able to spread the infection, an ability belonging to the Dead Apostles.

        So either ufotable just weren’t well-versed in the Dead Apostles, or Noritaka’s test reagent was somehow responsible for the special infectiousness of this particular outbreak.

        • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

          What you have described is the life cycle of a Dead Apostle whose origin of vampirism is the blood of a True Ancestor, which is not necessarily the case here. Vampirism achieved via magic research may have different traits. Think Nero Chaos as an example – he is classified as a Dead Apostle whereas in fact he might be closer to a true demon, being practically a walking Reality Marble.

          • IronZeta says:

            Well, I did leave that possibility open, which is why I suggested that “Noritaka’s test reagent was somehow responsible for the special infectiousness of this particular outbreak.”
            Either way, it’s not really important in the long run.

      • Civlov says:

        “Another mage obsessed with the Root and blind to everything else.”

        Actually, Noritaka cares at the least about Kiritsugu as much as Tokiomi cares about Sakura, which means: a lot. Noritaka pretty much raised Kiritsugu alone, since his wife was killed by the Enforcers after Kiritsugu was born. He was actually done packing all that stuff and would have immediately fled if Kiritsugu hadn’t been gone. More details like embracing Kiritsugu or the narrator’s notes make clear there was a strong father-son bond between them.

        Kiritsugu already turned into a machine partially when he killed his father. He hesitated in his heart, but his body pulled the trigger anyway, so he was already a bit out of his mind. But yeah, he killed his father to prevent another incident like in this episode here and because his father was the cause, although it was an accident. Must have hurt his heart a lot, losing everything and everyone he cared for.

        And I can assure you Tokiomi did not know what exactly Sakura would have to endure. The Matou family exists for 500 years already and the records about their magecraft is extremely limited. Zouken lives for 200 years now, but neither the Association nor the Tohsaka clan as the Second Owners of Fuyuki knew much about him – one of the reasons being the Matou family’s attribute absorption and Zouken never really leaving his house except for maintaining his body. It’s because of Tokiomi’s limited thinking that he saw no other choice but to give her away. There must certainly have been better options, but he didn’t find them.

        Btw, Noritaka and Shirley were geniuses. Shirley got a Master’s degree at the age of 13(she should be around 14 when the incident happened), although the education at the island sucks and Noritaka was already hiding for 20 years from the Association’s Enforcers after getting his Sealing Designation, which is quite impressive for a fourth generation magus. All he needed to complete his research was… ha, time. And conveniently, the Dead Apostle immortality and his theory to reach the Root work with time manipulation. Two birds with one stone for him I guess.

        • meow says:

          He was actually done packing all that stuff and would have immediately fled if Kiritsugu hadn’t been gone.

          Hm. It looks like this was changed in the anime. He was just burning his notes and his bags were still half-open when Kiri arrived.

          More details like embracing Kiritsugu or the narrator’s notes make clear there was a strong father-son bond between them.

          Difficult to believe from this episode. Would have made what Kiri did much more chilling and more difficult to comprehend/emphasize with. Was Noritaya’s detached behavior spot on with the novel? I got the impression that Kiri wanted to confront his Dad and decide from there what to do. It was his Dad’s cold/neutral response that sealed the deal. The flashbacks of Chihaya during the shooting also gave me the impression that a lot of the reason Kiri killed his Dad was because he felt his Dad was responsible for what happened to Shirley.

          He hesitated in his heart, but his body pulled the trigger anyway, so he was already a bit out of his mind.

          Didn’t get depicted well in the anime. I got the feeling that he fully intended to kill his Dad, with almost no hesitation. If anything, shooting him at that point would have been a mercy, rather than a slow lingering death from a gut wound. He just had trouble letting go of the gun afterwards, as if it was stuck to his hand.

          And I can assure you Tokiomi did not know what exactly Sakura would have to endure.

          I don’t buy it. While ordinarily the Matous may be isolated from the Mage Association in general, they would have been closely linked to the Tohsakas for generations, collaborating on the Grail War ritual’s development. It’s difficult to believe that during all that time, the Tohsakas hadn’t picked up on the nature of Matou magic, especially since Zouken has been there from the beginning. Tokiomi also didn’t seem surprised at Kariya’s powers or how he suffered using them. Kariya and Tokiomi had known each other for a long time and were rivals for Aoi, no? I would be surprised if Tokiomi didn’t have some awareness for why Kariya left the Matous in the first place. Even Aoi didn’t seem to have any consideration for Kariya’s reasons for leaving the path of the Mage. I don’t see Sakura’s suffering as a factor when Tokiomi decided where to place Sakura. I would buy him thinking the Matous would owe him something for getting their heir from the Tohsakas and dismissing whatever suffering she had to go through as necessary for reaching the Root, just like Noritaka dismissing the loss of Shirley and the village.

          • Civlov says:

            That’s a general problem from anime and novel. The narrator makes clear that he cares about Kiritsugu a lot, while the anime isn’t very good in doing this. Actually, Noritaka raised Kiritsugu alone because his wife was killed by the Association shortly after giving birth.

            Kiritsugu was definitely waiting for his father’s answer about the incident. Since Noritaka wanted to pursue his research without regretting anything, he “had to” be removed to prevent another incident like this. That’s Kiritsugu’s logic. He no longer hesitates to sacrifice the people he loves, if it can save the majority.

            they would have been closely linked to the Tohsakas for generations

            Not really. They say they are in friendly terms, but besides cooperating to create the Grail, there was never much close going on between these two families.

            Matou magecraft’s attributes are absorption and binding. Furthermore, they are quite skilled with familiars, that’s all one knows about the Matou – nothing more besides this. Zouken never really stepped in any battles for all this time, he was hardly leaving his house at all. The knowledge about other families are always limited, in this case it’s even more extreme, believe it or not.

            Rin prepared herself the next ten years for the war and the information she found about Matou is rather lacking. She only truly realized what kind of monster Zouken is when she found the basement with the worms in Heaven’s Feel. No one except for the Matou family knew what was going on.

            Do you really think he wanted Sakura to get raped by worms and her step-brother for the next 11 years? He wanted the best for Sakura, the suffering would be more something like home sickness or adapting another magecraft that might not suit her as much as Tohsaka magecraft. My dream scenario was Zelretch to come and train her. That would have been just perfect.

            Kariya and Tokiomi had known each other for a long time and were rivals for Aoi, no?

            No. Aoi sees Kariya as a little brother. They were never rivals because Kariya never seriously tried to approach Aoi, thus Aoi never knew about Kariya’s feelings. I said it already numerous times, she is stupid as hell.

            I would be surprised if Tokiomi didn’t have some awareness for why Kariya left the Matous in the first place.

            That’s the thing about Tokiomi. He never understood why Kariya would leave and just dismissed Kariya as someone who would not want to take responsibility as a magus. He simply didn’t care about Kariya and never seriously questioned why he was doing whatever.

            Tokiomi also didn’t seem surprised at Kariya’s powers or how he suffered using them.

            Any magus who has the tiniest bit of experience will realize that Kariya suffers because he keeps pushing himself. He never trained his body or magecraft and now he took in ridiculous amounts of worms to compensate for this. Furthermore he only had 1 year to become a Master. This was Kariya’s problem and not just the Matou magecraft’s fault. And as I’ve said, controlling familiars(bugs) isn’t something Tokiomi wasn’t aware of.

            Tokiomi seriously thought that the trade was better for Sakura. The cons were only to forget that Sakura was ever a Tohsaka and no longer interact with Matou or interfere, as well as Sakura having a difficult time at the beginning. He thought it was worth it, as long as Sakura would get the magecraft and protection she needs to survive. The family adopting her being an old and once powerful family which tries to reach Akasha too(or not, but he doesn’t know that) was a nice bonus.

            Unlike Noritaka, Tokiomi was not a genius. Noritaka managed to fool the Association and the Enforcers for 20 years after getting his Sealing Designation. Tokiomi likely didn’t think he could hide or protect Sakura for long if the Association had ever found her.

  4. Rachnid says:

    That was probably some of the darkest stuff i’ve seen in awhile. Turning into a zombie because you believed that magic would do good? Killing your father for his research which result was completely unintended (also unintentionally causing the death of your crush)? so DARK I love it.

  5. anon says:

    “One thing that I do wonder is what triggered Kiritsugu’s sudden character change at the end of the episode.”

    You remember that scene half-way in, with Shirley and Kiritsugu by the pond? She asked what kind of person he wanted to grow up to be. His answer isn’t said in the novel like here, but the general idea is that he had the same dream as his adopted son (the male lead of Fate/Stay Night) and that was to be a hero of justice. He realized not only that letting Shirley live caused everyone else to die, but more importantly that his father wasn’t going to stop researching the zombies we saw and didn’t even care that the village had been destroyed.

    So he decided after listening to his dad that in order to stop the possibility of a repeat tragedy he had to kill his dad. Of course it’s a pretty insane thing to do, especially to your family – even the hunter woman (her name is Natalia) acknowledged as much. But this is just the beginning – Kiritsugu was more or less with Natalia for the rest of his adolescent life until she was killed herself. So in that time he became much more cold hearted and resolved in his efforts to save people by killing other people.

    His basic idea is this: I can save 100 people, but I need to kill 10 people to do that. I can save 100000, but I need to kill 100 people to do that. Originally he tried saving everyone, but realized he couldn’t. So he ended up bloodying his hands multiple times for the sake of saving people who wouldn’t even know his name.

    I suggest rewatching the speech that he and Saber had after the Lancer-Kayneth-Sola trio died. It makes a lot more sense now when you have the context of his life before he decided to become the hunter’s assistant and be like her.

    • jkuro says:

      Wow, thanks for the Natalia spoilers, dude. Seriously, is self control that fucking difficult?

      • Anca says:

        You could infer that much from the portion after the ending, it’s not a spoiler.

      • anon says:

        Its hardly a spoiler to give her name and if he never mentions her then I think it’s pretty obvious? Along with the very last moment after they leave the island. If you read the Light Novel her death is stated there, they only cut it out because there would be no time so it’s pretty much assumed. If I was giving you a spoiler I would be telling you straight out how she died.

    • wicked says:

      It’s really Shirou who adopted Kiritsugu’s ideal to be a hero, Archer said as much that his ideal are borrowed. He knows of magicians and magicraft, but actually harbors deep resentment of it. It not only shun him from people, he also understands it to be something not held back by any value of people or sense of right or wrong. He was happy in the village and was somewhat accepted by people other than his father. He thought differently of his father because his research may save the world, but in the end, his father stated clearly that he was not going to stop.

      It’s kind of a Batman begins thing for Kiritsugu, it’s an awakening of an ideal to save people, but also somewhat of a vengeance thing to fight the system that created the tragedies .

      • meow says:

        Talking about Kiri right? Yeah, I’m not sure how much magic knowledge he had. I think he just saw his dad’s experiments as growing blossoms that were fixed in time. They didn’t grow red eyes and kill people. Kiri’s Dad’s experiments seemed to be about making humans immortal but he was experimenting with vampirism/necromancy to do it and it wound up turning people into mindless bloodthirsty monsters.

        It’s kind of a Batman begins thing for Kiritsugu

        The sticking point is him having to kill his Dad to stop him. That was pretty chilling. I mean, his Dad did something horrible but it was unintentional. Hm…maybe that wasn’t clear to Kiri. And his Dad seemed to lack remorse and was ready to try again. Still, to kill the only family he had, his only caregiver he’d known all his life. Even Bruce spared his teacher. This is grim stuff. I wonder how dark the next episode will be.

        • wicked says:

          In the Typemoon created universe, Magicians/magus are essentially essentially define by family and bloodlines, as Kenneth pointed out in class Waver was attending. He may not know the nature of his father’s work, but he knew he will eventually be a successor to his father’s work which should imply that he knew about magicraft and magi’s purpose. Even children born without magical talent knew about aspects of life of magus, like Shinji in Fate/Stay night

          Kiritsugu definitely made a much much darker decision, but also one that took a different kind of resolve. I wasnt really making a parallel between him and batman, rather I mark it as a moment of transformation. It seems abrupt that he had a change of character, but it was meant to be tranformative. It was not about whether it’s intentional or not, but the fact that his dad will definitely start again. He probably knew that before his father told him, and it’s probably why he lied to the hunter and insisted on going in himself(I think he lied about a barrier), as the father probably could escape from the hunter.

          • meow says:

            Incidentally, Natalia was working for the Mage Association. Was she there to kill Noritaka or capture him alive so the Association could have him continue his work for their benefit? It doesn’t seem clear in the anime.

            I wasnt really making a parallel between him and batman

            Um no, I kind of wasn’t either. It’s a bad example. At that point, the League of Shadows hadn’t actually done anything yet, as far as Bruce knew. They just had extreme intentions. Kiri, on the other hand had to bear witness to his first love turning into a monster, understandably failing to stop her and then having to feel responsibility for the death of a whole village that were friendly with him, including children and a priest. And the root of all that evil was his father’s work. I can’t blame him for wanting to stop his father no matter what, even if it meant killing him. It’s very, very sad. It might have helped if Noritaka had managed to find and stop Shirley himself before she started afflicting the other villagers. It looked like he had become aware of the situation much earlier, which is why he ordered his son not to go to the village. So why didn’t he stop Shirley himself? Did he leave her alone hoping she’d be able to control her bloodlust and complete his research? When the worst happened, he didn’t have any contingency to protect the villagers or perhaps was counting on an outbreak to act as interference against the Mage Association so he and Kiri could escape?

  6. Anca says:

    I’m glad I read the comments here as I really didn’t understand Kiritsugu’s mindset. To me it was like they changed his character halfway for convenience and angst purposes; I wonder how many others thought the same. I really like this sort of subtleness, where I don’t understand everything at first glance.

    The ED is pretty neat. Isn’t it Manten that was released along with the OP? I already thought the song was better that most other bonus songs artists put on a single, so I guess this is why,

  7. omo says:

    The episode sets up the mercy kill opportunity to give contrast, hoping that it will provide enough of a reason for the patricide. I guess it may not work so well unless you are familiar with fate/stay night or fate/zero already.

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Anonymous870083
mm okay thanks!
AidanAK47
@Anon1, Think you might just have to go with a torrent. It's pretty hard to find direct download anime these days.
Anonymous870541
the latest episode of rakugo just made my heart sank. i didn't think it would get better than it already is. i thank god that i didn't read ahead
Anonymous870083
does anyone know where I can download the remastered version of the Utena series? without torrent?
SuperMario
the same very thought here Lenlo. What I considered the weakest part turned out to be so layered. Sorry for ever doubting you, Rakugo.
Lenlo
And that smirk at the end, beautiful
Lenlo
The weakest plot point of S1 has just become the best part ever.
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OOH MAN. I was not ready. The entire first season was all a setup. I cant. What. HOW DOES IT GET BETTER
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Cant wait to watch Rakugo tonight, just got home and im lookin forward to it,.
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I think before grabbing the protest signs it might be worth considering if the thing you are demanding be uncensored is even worth it. Oh yeah, now you can see genitalia in crap sex scenes that were crow bared into the plot. No more need to use your imagination.
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Some protest because they want there porn. That I suppose I can understand even if I think they would be better off buying some nukige. But then there are those who demand it just for the sake of standing against censorship. They don't give a crap about the game or the fact we are getting the exact same thing the japanese got. What? Censorship of sexual organs? DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!
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There are people actively proclaiming they won't buy the game, because they can't see dicks. That is not hyperbole. This is literally exactly whats happening here. And they just act so goddamn self righteous about it. Porn is not the goddamn point of these games. Shouldn't even be in them in the first place.
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So another Sekai Kickstarter is up for a trilogy of Visual novels called A Clockwork Ley-Line. Chipped in my bit as I am going to be buying this regardless but like goddamn clockwork you get the idiots yelling for Mosaic removal. No matter how I try to rationalize it, this just sounds stupid.
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Just whenever I think Rakugo may be dragging its feet it comes out a gives me three big strong moments in this weeks episode, you will know them when you come to them.
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I mean the spoiler code in the comment section. ^^. Like I don't mind if readers give (potential) spoilers but I don't want to ruin the fun of other readers as well
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There was also originally an ability to animate text too of the shoutbox and have gifs appear in the message box but not as links.
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I remember some HTML code worked with the old shoutbox but nope. But I suppose you could change the colour of text to white...though that would effect everything you write.
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Btw, do we have spoiler tag here Aidan?
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@anon861679: Agreed. They have big ambitions, but they seems unsure on what to do next. I mean engaging your readers to give their thoughts is good, but if it is a mean for you to get inspiration to write essay about isn't that great. Well, give them say 6 months until they can settle down (they just launched this site for 3,4 months only)
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Despite being fine with anime in English, I've almost always felt that voice acting in videogames isn't as good.
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Hey mario, that anime feminist blog was well, kind of awful. While they're well intentioned, it felt like they were pushing tumblr stuff onto chan stuff and that always ends up in a smoking mess.
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Okay I'm going to erase my memories right now
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I swear I'll stay off reddit for good. Have been spoiled by the development of ACCA by one of their "theory". As soon as I realized it's freaking spoiler I stopped but what done is done. Ahhhhhhhhhh
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Christ Fire Emblem Heroes is pretty addicting, micro transactions are not necessary at all. Though it irks me that I can't get Japanese voices. Dubs just make me cringe every time.
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@ckspike: Hand Shakers, the very quality that makes you brain cells die while watching it. Well, I actually think the music is one of the best part of the show, now that you mention it like that...well...*slap my forehead*
ckspike
... my roommate just told me the background music when I'm watching Hand Shakers sounds like a bad porno... Now I can't unhear it. Fuck!
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I havnt kept up with Academia, for some reason it just didnt catch me as well as the movie first did.
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I actually dont read many blogs. Mostly just this place and the occasional pop on reddit
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I'd like to present to one of my favorite blogs, A work I just created: Greed Island! https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tc2r.greedisland
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I go to Reddit anime myself but I don't really like the upvote system. Basically the majority rule opinions get put to the top which more often than not are jokes.
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I listen to podcasts on youtube and others places as well as going on Reddit Anime to hear a thousand people yammering away.
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I irregularly follow the episode reviews on ANN and sometimes read standing on my neck. I fell out of the habit of following random curiousity.
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Anime Feminist (animefeminist.com), while sounds ambitious on paper, hasn't been too hot unfortunately. I know they aim to be "big" so they're still figuring out how to do it best. Well, good luck for them!
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Just really wonder, what are other anime sites that you guys follow beside this? Well, ANN and RandomC are a given, but I found myself haven't bothered to read ANN's episodic reviews lately (mostly due to time constraint)
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Don't tell me this is gonna be a regular thing.
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There we go
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Oh god JSON objects. I thought that nightmare was over
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Mine is working probably as well. Thanks a bunch K-Off and glad to hear back from you.
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AidanAK47 I can't get into Fate since like with Nanoha there's a lot of stuff with those names in it. Zero was the most straightforward, yet the buildup was very dragout but the payoffs where very worthy.
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This is what I get for updating the bloody plugin.....
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He finished it and was telling me what he thought of Saber defeating Gilgamesh. Minute he said that I was like "OH GOD..." He watched the Deen 2006 adaption. Sadly it loos like he's not going to bother watching UBW TV despite me showing him part of the berserker fight. With Fate/Extra, Fate/Grand Order, Fate/Apocrypha, Fate/Oath under the snow and all the rest this problem will happen again.
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You know I wish the Fate series did a better job naming it's series. I was introducing a newbie so I gave him Fate/Zero first. He loved it so I specifically told him to watch the UBW TV Series and don't mistake it for the movie. He then went and watched the movie. I told him to watch the TV series regardless and brought up the MAL page to show him which one.
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Ah, there's definately no harm in doing further reading on more arthouse stuff before reviewing it/watching/after watching, it extends our understanding and is pretty much required.
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Yeah, I generally only write reviews every now and then, and they tend to be kept simple and to 200-300 words. My writing ability only really works when I write in stream of consciousness.
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Zestiria is such a feast for the eyes... The colors and backgrounds are so vivid and magnificent. Story has improved on the game's weaknesses too!
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Given enough time, im sure I could write something, but as I writer I tend towards quick, decisive statements of what I think and why. Engineer, so technical documents are like the only thing I know how to write.
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@Supermario ah, I'd say I'm the opposite in that I sometimes don't know why I like something so much, and when I read a review about it I can relate my own experiences and put it in my own words pretty well. Can thank Highschool eco for that
SuperMario
But to tell you guys the truth, I never think that I'm cut out as a reviewer (even now), because I'm a type of viewer who more perceive (I know why I like/ don't like stuffs) than express (just can't never explain stuffs well)
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it's depending on what grabbing you really; as I always find shows with heavy symbolisms like Penguindrum or Flip Flappers the easiest to dig deeper. But those are always my kind of show to begin with
Topgavin
I'd find it really hard to write something about a show without reading about it first; watching it one time by myself I usually only notice the big things. Stuff like Flip Flappers I had no clue what half the episode's hidden meanings were, can't imagine reviewing a show like NGE or penguindrum.
SuperMario
that's exactly how I write my reviews anyways
Lenlo
I cant imagine writing a review, id just repeat myself with different words but the same intended meaning over and over again
AidanAK47
Wonder if I should write a review of this. Might be hard without giving too much away.
AidanAK47
(Finishes Sweetest monster Visual novel)
.....well....fuck.
(Buys all authors visual novels on steam.)
Lenlo
Sadly, I doubt Nioh will get a PC port. Sony is pretty stingy on their exclusives, like Bloodborne. But I am so very happy with Nioh. I love technical combat like this
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose this means I'm looking into this rpg maker game thing now isn't it? Might aswell.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the word animerican used to describe things like avatar last airbender. Filthy word =P
Anonymous853606
God no. Jiro Taniguchi died.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I have been hearing very good things about Nioh. Really hoping it gets a PC port.
@Topgavin, No real surprises there.
Topgavin
I'm sure most of you have heard, but looks like New Game is getting a season 2 out of all things. Apparently they had good sales, and I can certainly see why. CGDCT with yuri undertones and clean animation is hard to get wrong, let alone not sell.
Lenlo
Just started with Nioh, and oh my goodness do I love it.
Anonymous852887
anyone play resident evil 7? its so good.
AidanAK47
Thought that's because the term American Anime just feels wrong to me on all levels.
AidanAK47
@Anon, they do not. They are cartoons.
Anonymous852775
DO people call D.C. Comics animated movies American anime?
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am certainly interested in seeing the next episode. Those minisodes were pretty good too. One thing I thought the writting faltered on though was the comedy. It really was a little too slapstick considering how serious the drama was.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: ah remind me the time I went to Texas (Corpus Christy) before X-mas time and I was wearing short pants and thongs (nice!!!), then went all the way up to Niagara Falls and I was almost freezing there.
Lenlo
See, I love winter, but its almost non-existent in Texas
Anonymous852268
@Aidan: I agree. I loved To the Moon. It's so good seeing emotional drama that isn't centered around high-school kids. Seeing the ups and downs of a whole long life of a person gives everything that happens way more impact.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: An Australian friend put it as "A sunbaked rock in summer, a giant zoo, that actively tries to kill its population"
SuperMario
Not that I'm enjoying the winter either. Why autumn always go so fast?
SuperMario
Believe me but summer here is way too much. When it's too hot and dry it starts bushfiring really badly. And it's too hot that even a big fan straight in front of you don't do you any good
Kaiser Eoghan
What is this mysterious creature known as summer you refer to? =P My country is grey as a black and white film =P
SuperMario
I'm wondering how freezing you guys have to endure right now, but the place I came today in Aussie just reached 50 degree celsius this noon. So hot I felt myself burning
Lenlo
I think the part I liked the most, was just how satisfying those mud splatter sounds were. I dont know why, but its in my head
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki 6 subs came out at 11pm PST.
Lenlo
Atleast Rakugo didnt get held up. Still amazing as ever
AidanAK47
Well I spent my time waiting for it to come out by playing and finishing To the Moon. Got to say, it takes some real skill to make a game in RPGmaker that can make you really feel something. But maybe I am just a sucker for this kind of story.
SuperMario
Hey, I would be very frustrating if Hand shakers got delayed. But I agree this delay is caused by Being X. And Scum's Wish, haizzz, this is the show we love to get pissed at. Haha
Anonymous850298
I blame Being X.
AidanAK47
Sigh, Youjo Senki 6 is delayed. Why is it always the best shows that get delayed? If an episode of hand Shakers was delayed no one would give a crap but nope. Gotta be the show you want to watch right away.
AidanAK47
@Anon, in both anime and manga I never liked that character much.
Anonymous849783
Meh, dropped Masamune-kun. Seriously why do they always have to shove in these one dimensional characters with a crush out of f* nowhere. It never made any of these shows more interesting, it's always the opposite.
Vonter
@Kaiser Eoghan - I find it weird having the teacher being so unashamedly evil. In a way I like that, but at the same time I can't relate to the notion of people like that existing IRL.
Kaiser Eoghan
As I continue to watch scums wish, it becomes an anger inducing as much as it is engrossing experience.
AidanAK47
Or the UBW movie over the TV series. You just don't do that.
AidanAK47
That's like recommending someone to watch NGE death and rebirth instead of the TV series.
Kaiser Eoghan
Meh, I just got fed up with the padding in the tv version.
AidanAK47
Jojo has the kind of entertainment that clicks with you or doesn't so I understand if you didn't get into it. Though to give it a fair chance I would recommend trying the first episodes of Battle Tendency. It starts at episode 10 of the first season, you can jump to it. If that doesn't catch you then Jojos really isn't for you.
AidanAK47
Don't listen to Kaiser. The OVA is bad.
Kaiser Eoghan
....found out where a friend had been off to lately, making a movie and he ended up actually making and finishing and I got first dibs. Had a hard time commenting on it as I know the guy personally.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Totally with you on the academy thing.
@Lenlo: If you ever try jojo again and get onto part three go for the ova instead as it trims down an overly bloated arc.
Lenlo
For JoJos, I couldnt get through the first season. It just didnt hook me
Lenlo
What I dont understand is how anything other than Mob Psycho won best animation, cause my god.
Lenlo
I think Erased lost not because of the libido, but because Yuri was "gay" and "progressive" and most important of all, recent. Yuri had just finished airing so it was stuck in everyones heads. Of course it was going to win everything
AidanAK47
Erased truly deserved to win that category and it only lost because people voted with their libido instead of their head.
AidanAK47
If there's one thing that really makes me angry about these awards it's Yuri on Ice winning most heartwarming moment for "The Kiss". Because A) It wasn't a fucking kiss and B) Even if it was that isn't heartwarming. Oh I am sure something is getting warm but it sure as hell isn't your heart.
AidanAK47
Likely the main reason Kira didn't win main villain because Jojo has grown to a episode count which makes people hesitant to pick it up. Not to mention many would lose interest by Stardust crusaders midpoint.
AidanAK47
When it comes to judging quality you have to leave it to the people who have experienced enough of the medium to truly be able to critical judge it. Pretty darn sure most who voted didn't even bother watching everything worthwhile each season and just gravitated towards whatever they were exposed to.
AidanAK47
Lets not forget someone voting multiple times and bot voting. Because yes, people really do that. As you two pointed out, a public vote was never truly going to be a accurate gauge of quality. For you are not only opening the vote to anime lovers but also newbies and those who simply haven't refined their tastes yet.
SuperMario
so they either abstained their votes (which actually was reasonable); voted for something popular or even voted based on what their kids liked the most (which was flat out unforgivable).
SuperMario
This from my own frustration mostly when it comes to awards like this. But I've been following the Academy Awards for way too long now and every now and then you heard something that really disheartened about their voting process. Like for example many of the Academy members admitted that they don't care to watch anything animated because... it's kiddy stuff
SuperMario
TL;DR: my point is I have mixed feeling about the whole Crunchyroll awards. One more thing that I noticed about the nomination is that the pool was dominated by shows from the first half of last year.
Lenlo
I dont think public voting is the way to go is the thing. Popularity contests are horrible. With popularity contests moe is going to be near the top every time, while shows like Rakugo never really have a chance. And I think there is little doubt that Rakugo was one of the best shows last season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: there is an issue with the first thou, because reviewers like us don't actually represent the whole public opinions. So it's all come down to the very reason they create an award in a 1st place (your second point). But with voting we can't really reason why the winners win the trophy, right?
Lenlo
The problem with awards like that is for them to mean anything they need 2 things. 1) A board of voters who are actual reviewers who have watched a large portion of what was on shelf that season. 2) Reasons for why each thing won its award. An award without reasons means nothing
SuperMario
Other issue about voting for these awards is that the nominating body and the voting body aren't always the same. Usually the voting body is broader and more generic in taste, so I'm not at all surprised when shows like Rakugo couldn't win. Too art-house for their liking. Well, at least it got nominated which for me is good enough.
SuperMario
That's the thing. When it comes to awards, they are more 'popularity' contest than actual quality, since people tend to vote for the safer choice (the one that are both popular and mildly critical success), YOI fits the bill here.
Lenlo
Those awards were not the best and little more then a popularity contest imo.
SuperMario
Actually with that line-up I had no problems with YOI taking the top spot
SuperMario
I actually forgot about the Crunchyroll Anime Awards so I came to check the winner. Guess which show won AOTY huh? Alright, at least it wasn't Kabaneri or Jokers Game
Kaiser Eoghan
But the best one was Mask of Phantasm.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: And return of the joker also.
Kaiser Eoghan
It has aged admittedly very poorly, but I always got a great kick out of that old 1994 spiderman cartoon.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I think its fair to use the term K-anime or C-anime for the Korean and Chinese influenced stuff, or maybe just anime would be just as appropriate. If some Argentinian guy can write/draw a manga for a Japanese manga magazine (big comic superior thats the magazines name) and have it actually be called a manga, it should be the same for China/Korea.
Lenlo
Mhmm. Marvel had the movies, but DC had the animated series
AidanAK47
Man, I loved the villains of Batman Beyond. Inque and Shriek had such interesting powers. The DC animated shows tended to be the one that didn't treat you like a kid while watching.
Lenlo
Well, they released a trailer for Samurai Jack S5, so its coming. Batman Beyond I also enjoyed
AidanAK47
Ah Samurai Jack. Wonder how that Adult swim revival is going? Batman the Animated Series as well didn't need Batman to crack off jokes every minute to be great.
Lenlo
Agreed. Samurai Jack was one of my favorite cartoons for that very reason. It ran the gamut of genres, each episode being something different.
Also I used Nichijou cause it was the first to come to my mind as a "Kids Show", though Love-Ru works as well
AidanAK47
One thing I think Cartoons could do to move away from the stigma of being for kids is having more genres than Comedy and Action adventure. Or at least stop putting comedy in everything.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Every fanbase has it's fanatics. There are idiots everywhere.
@Lenlo, I thought this might come up though I was expecting more of "placing Berserk and To Love-Ru in the same category" thing. Honestly I don't have a rebuttal for that. What is an isn't anime is really a matter of what anime is to you.
Lenlo
Now Aidan, you say putting Berserk and Scoopy doo in the same category is wrong, but what about Berserk and say.. Nichijou? A similar problem comes up and I think thats more to do with Berserk being a pretty major outlier (And I love it for being so. Have all the original Dark Horse volumes on my shelf)
Lenlo
Really though, reading Reddit arguments about it is so much fun.
Lenlo
I do think that recently, a number of shows have been trying to move cartoon, and animation in general in the west, away from meaning "For Kids".
Lenlo
Im not sure sure about that Anon, look at the Steven Universe and MLP fanbases.
Anonymous840067
Aidan, that isn't true... Anime has a 'special' name because it's fan base is a lot more fanatical than the cartoon fan base.
AidanAK47
Though I think the whole "Its not for kids" is the main push. Looking at my anime collection the majority is rated 15 with a few 12s. It's like the way you have Young Adult and mature, Comic books and graphic novels, or Visual novels and Eroge. They are essentially the same thing but appeal to different audiences.
AidanAK47
Though I think what really pushes this argument is that the term anime at least has a badge of honor. You don't see people demanding a show to be called a cartoon.
AidanAK47
Honestly the term anime is just a distinction to separate it from the more kiddy stuff. The term cartoon in the western world is too ingrained with the likes of Hanna Barbera or loony toons. No matter how you put it, putting Scooby Doo and Berserk in the same category is just wrong.
SuperMario
Then would you consider Korean, Chinese anime-influenced shows as anime? (I would) and those anime that aimed for Western audience (like Animatrix) as anime? (I would too)
SuperMario
But then we have something like Thunderbolt Fantasy lasy year which if I go for this defination (style) then it isn't anime at all, yet I would categorize it as anime
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