Posted by psgels on 12 May 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

A message to the commenters who have already read the Fate/Zero light novels: please do care to avoid spoilers here. This is not a blog about the Fate franchise, but rather this a place to discuss the Fate/Zero anime. If you’re going to spoil that Natalia dies it rather diminishes the impact of that twist, especially since that was the entire thing that this episode was leading up to. This is the one thing I dislike about adaptations of very popular works: it’s really hard not to get spoiled about things.

In any case though, the way in which Natalia did die… was pretty creative. It also tied in very much with Kiritsugu killing a few in order to save a lot, and the plane being taken over by an extreme version of killer bees: it showed another layer of what can be done with the magic in this series. It’s also interesting how professional the characters operated. It’s not often that you see professionalism to such a degree in anime. Although I do wonder who Natalia was able to smuggle guns on a plane. Is that something that magic can do as well?

Overall, I’m surprised that we get two whole episodes of Kiritsugu’s background so relatively late in the series. With this though we can understand his actions in trying to eliminate Lancer, and how his views are the total opposite of Saber’s Chivalry. And I guess that some sort of intermission was needed before the showdown between the four remaining pairs.
Rating: *+ (Great)

23 Responses

  1. Gabriel says:

    I found it pretty nice to see those events, like this airplane, and the building that he collapsed. Since in Fate/Stay Night they tell that Kiritsugu did those things, it’s really nice that they actually showed why they happened!

  2. someloser says:

    Well, Happy Mother’s Day, Kiritsugu!!!

  3. Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

    Any decent magus can do jedi tricks. No, really. Mental interference (suggestion, memory manipulation, etc.) is among the most basic magecraft that any magus must learn. Oh, but of course, mental interference is pretty much useless against people with running magic circuits. But as long as it’s a normal person, no strong will can protect them.

    • Random_Passerby_Number_612 says:

      Oh, and that was a reply to how Natalia manages to smuggle firearms onto a plane.

      • meow says:

        I wonder if the Mage Association could have arranged for Natalia to get on board with weapons. It looks like they have enough influence to cover up events like this.

  4. meow says:

    ……frak. WTH. Ok, this is a bit much. Natalia intended to land the plane but to keep the infected trapped and somehow find a way to wipe them out. She was working for the Mage Association. Couldn’t Kiri have called on them for help? Maybe arrange an isolated landing site surrounded by a small army of mages and spells to deal with the plane? Or how about flying low enough for her to squeeze out the cockpit window and then blow the plane. I mean, she managed to get from the cargo hold through infected territory to the cockpit without getting infected herself. A miracle if you ask me. She probably has some tricks up her sleeve. It looks like this kind of thing happens quite a lot so the Mage Association or even the Church may have thought up some contingencies. Especially since the Dead Apostle himself had been dealt with. Why blow the plane without so much as a discussion of options? I mean, it looks like she accepted Kiri’s decision in the end but….damn. He intended to kill her regardless of what she thought, with or without her permission. Natalia was the more experienced hunter and probably knew a lot more about the potential uses of magecraft than Kiri. She might have had some ideas on how to deal with the outbreak that could have saved her skin too. It wasn’t the same as Shirley. Shirley asked Kiri to kill her. This is messed up.

    Saber may be right. I’ve got a hard time thinking what kind of wish Kiri would make on the Grail, assuming he gets his hands on it.

    If you’re going to spoil that Natalia dies

    It was an avoidable slip but I’m not sure if it would be considered a major spoiler. The when and the how weren’t mentioned or even whether it would be an important plot point or just something mentioned in passing. I don’t think what was posted would have been enough for anyone to predict what would happen this episode, unless it prompted someone to go look for spoilers. If anything, the follow up protest may have been a bigger spoiler, putting a really big highlight that Natalia’s death would be a major event.

    Here’s me asking for a FZ novel spoiler. Did Kiri in the novel blow up the hotel with Team Lancer in it without evacuating the hotel? Was it changed for the anime?

    • Kuroichi says:

      Going into semantics of what constitutes a major spoiler is only asking for trouble – You’ll end up with a whole bunch of clowns posting spoilers, then defending it by saying “well, it wasn’t THAT big of a spoiler”, or “You should have been able to guess that would happen”. Just keep it to the basics: a spoiler is discussing something that has not happened yet.

      Saying people should not protest spoilers because the “protest may have been a bigger spoiler” makes absolutely no sense. So if I tell you how shows you are watching end, its all good because I didn’t tell you HOW they got to that end?

      It shouldn’t be a superhuman feat to restrain yourself from posting things that haven’t happened yet in the medium these posts are about (in this case, the anime).

      • meow says:

        You have a point but I wanted to argue that some spoilers may happen inadvertently when discussing a particularly complex point in a story. I personally would have preferred that Natalia’s death wasn’t mentioned in last episode’s post, especially when it would be reasonable to assume the event would happen in the following episode but avoiding all spoilers would hamper any kind of useful discussion on this topic, which to me would be a shame. I could use some serious clarity trying to figure out what the heck to make of some of these characters and their current actions. Still, you do have a reasonable point. Maybe I need to look for another place to discuss F/Z too.

    • Civlov says:

      He did evacuate the hotel in the novel, too. He was blaming himself for becoming soft. You might also notice that he sees a mother with her crying daughter afterwards. They basically look like Ilya and Iri, cept for a color swap. And this isn’t really a spoiler, you know? :p

      The thing about Kiritsugu is that he is mentally ill. Rationality comes before personal feelings and it hurts him so much afterwards. He basically killed both his parents whom he loved for his ideal and people he doesn’t know.

      He never wants to take any risk of failing, even if the risk is minimal like Kayneth still getting in his way. Blowing the plane up was in his opinion the best option because it’s a guaranteed kill with only one casualty.

      I hope that clears up the rumor that Kiritsugu mercilessly blowed up a plane because his target was inside(though tbh, in general he would really do it). Everyone except for Natalia was already beyond saving.

      • meow says:

        That’s the part that gets to me. His target was already dead. The rest were just drones. They still posed a danger but there should have been options. Usually you want to hope for the best but prepare for the worst but in Kiri’s case, he seems to be always acting on a worst-case-scenario. I would have thought that Natalia would have been like a senior partner to Kiri too, meaning that they would collaborate on what would be the best course of action. If it meant blowing up the plane with Natalia in it, I thought the two of them should come to a consensus on it. If anything, if this were to parallel Shirley’s situation, it would be Natalia ordering Kiri to blow the plane. Didn’t happen. In fact, Kiri actually assured Natalia that he had a backup plan to deal with the infected, as if Natalia was clear to land the plane without having to worry about it. Little did she know that he was planning to take her out along with them. Was there so little trust between them? Were their objectives so out of alignment? Would Natalia have chosen to risk a Ghoul infection in a major city just to save herself?

        I don’t know how Kiri can even tell the difference between friend and enemy at this point. Who does he protect? Who does he save? Who does he sacrifice?

        • Mike says:

          Eh, you realize that both of them knew exactly what was going to happen right? That’s why lil’ Kerry and Natalia had those sentimental conversations, they both knew that he had to bring the plane down and that there’s no way for her to make it out alive.

          • meow says:

            A part of me kept telling myself that in the back of my mind but I just can’t buy it. The sentimental convo felt like a contingency should the worst happen but there’s nothing in Natalia’s behavior that indicates that she was aware of Kiri’s intentions until the very last second. Why have a fake convo with every indication that Natalia is going to walk out alive then? Why does Kiri, after the deed is done, wind up openly declaring that he’d killed his mother just like he killed his father? If anything, I’d like to believe that Natalia, in her last moments, would have wanted to express approval or at least acceptance of Kiri’s choice, if only to soothe his conscience. Instead, the only people who see a hint of her final expression is us, the audience.

          • Mike says:

            Natalia being how she is will always try to find a way to survive at all cost, even if it means letting the ghouls and bees escape, both her and Kiritsugu knows that. Kiritsugu being how he is will always try to save the most people possible, and both of them know that as well.

            It’s not like they just met each other yesterday you know.

      • wicked says:

        The author of Fate/Zero(who created works like Phantom of Inferno, Madoka Magica) has a thing for tragic endings and tragic heroes to almost a pathological level, to the point that he almost quit writing because he cannot bring himself to write happy/good endings. Fate/Zero’s saving grace for him is that Fate/Stay night has a happy ending, therefore the tragedies he gets to create will eventually lead to the happy ending of Fate/stay night.

        Kiritsugu is a rather typical archetype in his character designs, capable character with inflexible fixation on their ideal or goal, even if they waver along the way, they return to their original fixation in the end.

        Sacrifice is part of his act of saving. To him, it’s pure naivety hesitate for a high risk plan without sacrifice when there is a foolproof plan with sacrifice. He chose to let that naivety go the moment he found out not killing his first love led to an entire village being burned down. His travels with Natalia only reaffirm his belief that there is no such thing saving everyone without a cause. There is no best case scenario because Kiritsugu has no such faith in the world.

        • meow says:

          I see. Same author as Inferno. That figures. XD

          I generally try to avoid tragic shows, especially if it’s got gut shots like this. I felt a little bit more prepared to handle this one because I had read up a little about the backstory, way back before they decided to animate it. But this nuance wasn’t included. I guess it’s good drama and certainly not run-of-the-mill but I wouldn’t watch it more than once unless it was to research for discussion.

          I never watched Madoka. Yeah, little magical girls getting their heads bitten off. No, thanks.

          I wonder if the upcoming Total Eclipse will get this grim. I know Alternative was.

          • wicked says:

            Madoka actually has an end that you could mostly interpret as happy, though the path to it was convoluted and painful, and the two main characters really arent the happy ones.

            He’s just very good at putting his characters into very very dark situations. He almost uses the inverse of Deus Ex Machina, instead of having a miraculous cure that resolve an impossible problem, he throws an impossible problem to thwart a miraculous cure. I cant think of any of his work where his protagonist did not get force into despair then deeper despair(Madoka the possible exception). It’s also the genius of his work

          • meow says:

            I have to say it is compelling drama. So was Requiem for the Phantom for that matter. It’s just so damn sad. I just wish there was a more positive way to get under one’s skin.

    • Mike says:

      The Association is not a charity organization, they are not going to create a bigger mess harder for them to contain over a merc’s slip ups, and the Church would’ve happily done exactly done what Kiritsugu did.

      Also, there’s no “squeezing out the cockpit window” on a flying jetliner, nevermind the fact that she doesn’t have any parachute.

      • meow says:

        The Association is not a charity organization

        True, but I doubt if they would want to waste useful assets either. Do hunters as effective as Natalia grow on trees? At the very least, I would have liked one of them to have at least brought it up so it could be shot down.

        Also, there’s no “squeezing out the cockpit window” on a flying jetliner, nevermind the fact that she doesn’t have any parachute.

        She’s not an ordinary person. She managed to get through a galley full of infected Ghouls and bees without getting bitten – a rather miraculous feat, if you ask me. It seems really ridiculous to me that she made it that far only to get shot down. I thought she got infected too and that’s why Kiri had to take the shot – to save her before she turned completely in the way Shirley wanted Kiri to for her.

        He’s like a twisted James Bond, who keeps losing the women in his life.

        • Mike says:

          it’s a simple matter of value vs. liability, a merc is ultimately disposable, that’s why they use them.

          the world of nasuverse has magic, but it’s no dragonball z, laws of physics are not ignored in nasuverse. It’s one thing to crawl through a window, it’s another to crawl through a window with winds coming through at speeds of 2~300mph, which is matched only by the most powerful of tornadoes.

          and what exactly can she do even if she somehow got through? other than getting fling off the plane and plummet to her death? (assuming she doesn’t already die from hitting parts of the plane as she goes off flying.

        • Leica says:

          Note that Kiri wanted to incinerate the bees, the ghouls were not his main concern.

        • wicked says:

          It would probably give most people a peace of mind if Natalia was bitten, but that would lessen the power of his choice

          Natalia will self-preserve above all else, it’s the among the first things she taught Kiritsugu and probably hammer into his head. He had no doubt she was going to land the plane, if there was a way to leave the plane safely while in the air she would have done so already. If he had not assure her that he had way to eliminate the ghouls and get her out, she would’ve found a way to get out whether it meant releasing the ghouls or not. The fact that she didnt bring up the option to him herself meant that she probably had no way to do so(As you say, she was more senior, so if the mage association was an option, she would have told him long ago), and if Kiritsugu had asked her, she’d have lied.

          In the novel, he considered that Natalia safely comes back without releasing the ghouls or the demon bees a miracle, and the fact he cannot put faith into such miracle shows that he is as Natalia says, more of a a machine than a man. It’s also why when true miracle was an option as the Grail, he pursuits it mercilessly.

  5. Terry says:

    Reminds me of the flight TWA 800 that was shot down just outside of Long Island (New York City) in the mid 90s.

    Interesting times: you had hundreds of people who witnessed the shoot-down from all over the area…they didn’t know each other, came from disparate backgrounds but they all came away with the same story at he same time about a white light ascending into the air and hitting something, a fireball, and a “boom”. Meanwhile the Clinton Administration (in an election year no less) keeps squwaking “Move along, nothing to see here, just an accident”.

    If 9/11 happened under Clinton, he probably would have claimed it was an “accident”too. Maybe the NY Air Traffic controllers directed into the WTC, Pentagon and into the ground in Pennsylvania all at the same time.

    “Move along, nothing to see here, just an accident”.

Leave a Reply

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Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not so much that I dislike post 50s fellini moreso I feel that his throw everything at the screen and hope what sticks method can be hit or miss.
SuperMario
While I don't really mind his later stuffs because he was masterclass, I have a pretty hard time for Paolo Sorrentino's later works. The thing is I don't care much about the high class society so everything is just ridiculously over the top and glamour and I'm tired of it.
SuperMario
I haven't watched nights of cabiria but I did watch La Strada and boy, I was sad for few days after watching it. Fellini mentioned that he was inspired to make this movie when seeing a woman pushing a cart from behind. The film really carry that sense throughout its running
SuperMario
Michael Haneke put Salo in his top 10 films. Quite understandable when you think about it. Still for me one of the movie that affected me deeply.
SuperMario
I really admire Elle for its ability to maintain its sharpness because under other inexperienced directors it could easily becomes a mess. Mel Gibson, really? He's one of the few actors that I absolutely dislike
SuperMario
@Kaiser: The Red Turtle remains one of the the most refreshing time I had this year in cinema, but then again I haven't watched much films lately. Agree with you on Sonia's performance, and I still think they could cut out the first 20' of the film because it feels out of place compare to the rest of the film
Kaiser Eoghan
Debating whether to bother catching up on I am a hero or watching the film adaptation. I haven't read it since they got rid of that one female character.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I've a feeling you'll like nights of cabiria, Fellini was cranking out some solidly effective social-realist dramas in the 50s before he fell into self-indulgence.
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I have that sound euphonium compilation film downloaded, I should get to that sometime.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also finally watched Salo, I ended up meeting it pretty much halfway. Some parts still retain the ability to effect a modern viewer, having seen his other works though its crazy just how different Salo is to them.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Seeing I, daniel Blake tomorrow and rogue one in a few weeks.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I hope Mel Gibson and Isabelle huppert win at the next oscars.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the red turtle for its visual style of storytelling and animation even if I didn't get as emotionally attached to it as others did. I also watched Aquarius nd was pretty much blown away by Sonia Braga's performance. Elle is now one of my favourite Verhoeven films and its a miracle he managed to maintain such a great balance successfully throughout the film.
SuperMario
I don't care for the sequel of Code Geass at all. Why Spice & Wolf still hasn't got season 3 though is what really bugged me. From what I know their manga and LNs are selling very well
Anonymous494677
I wonder why that is...
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, they were always milking code geass though what with those bajillion-million-billion manga spinoffs.
Kaiser Eoghan
Still say I was more fond of the character chemistry in spice and wolf as opposed to everything else.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll likely pass on the code geass sequel, the memory I have of it has already led to its appeal dimishing for me, I don't want to ruin things further watching an un-neccesary followup. Still avoiding utawerumono's second season for same reasons.
AidanAK47
After all there are things which need sequels and things which don't. And Code Geass never needed a sequel after R2's ending. Giving something a sequel can just ruin the conculsion of the orignal series. Case in point. Eureka Seven Ao. Remember that? Cause you shouldn't. Because it was terrible.
AidanAK47
Honestly I would have preferred Spice and Wolf Season 3.
AidanAK47
So...is anyone gonna mention that Code Geass is getting a sequel?
....Because Code Geass is getting a sequel.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am watching it as well. But I am a bit behind because I am watching the funimation broadcast dub. It's a very good guilty pleasure. I don't find it quite as funny anymore but it's still pure dumb fun.
SuperMario
@Anon487524: I'm still following it and it still remains a fun show to watch. I love the way they do the fan-servicey completely straight.
Topgavin
@anon I'll admit to watching it. While it is very simple and follows the sport anime formula religiously, it's still a blast to watch every week. This is also helped because you have no expectations for it before watching other than "oh god what's gonna happen this week".
Anonymous487524
Granted, nothing special, just one of those anime whose only worth is being fun to watch without being deep, but Keijo really is fun to watch, easily the best guilty pleasure anime in a long while to me.
Anonymous487524
I started watching it expecting an crappy fanservice anime with nothing of worth, but it ended up being actually pretty fun and awesome to watch.
Anonymous487524
Anyone here seeing Keijo?
SuperMario
What's up with 3-gatsu no Lion? Delayed for a week huh?
Kaiser Eoghan
Checked out Hedeki anno's godzilla re-boot earlier out of curiousity, its a bit plodding/dull at times but sometimes its high camp value played straight is kind of funny, having godzilla evolve during the film was a cool touch and I enjoyed every scene with him and making a Godzilla film today is still very relevant. Not a patch on the old ones though.
Anonymous482380
I think that movie was just so terrible that people made it into a meme. Stuff like "The Entire Bee Movie Except Evey Time They Say 'Bee' The Movie Speeds Up"
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm sorry lmao I had to, it seemed so appropriate a moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
AidanAK47
Fun Fact: The whole Bees shouldn't be able to fly thing is a myth.
Badesh
I think that was just a dry realization...
AidanAK47
@Topgavin, It's a meme to post the entire script of the bee movie in random places?
....I don't get the joke.
Topgavin
For anyone wondering, I think anon just copy/pasted the entire script for the Bee movie. Memes are goin strong
Anonymous479946
According to all known laws
of aviation,


there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.


Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.


The bee, of course, flies anyway


because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.


Yellow, black. Yellow, black.
Yellow, black. Yellow, black.


Ooh, black and yellow!
Let's shake it up a little.


Barry! Breakfast i
Kaiser Eoghan
Actually I think it was up to about episode ten or so I saw.
Kaiser Eoghan
From what I can recall I watched legend of the galactic heroes somewhere past the part with the Caligula guy.
AidanAK47
That is one thing I wonder about the remake. How are they going to make the space battles interesting? Cause for me theres only so many times you can watch tin boxes shoot lasers and explode.
AidanAK47
I didn't like LOGH until the third episode. That's when it started to catch my attention. It also helps that I have a interest in history as the plot of LOGH practically reads like genuine history.
AidanAK47
In my case the overhype didn't kill it for me as I generally try to avoid that. When I walked into LOGH I was under the impression that it would ahve merit but not be for me. After all I heard it was mostly politics and the politics of Gundam bore me to tears. Funny enough the opposite happened. The space battles bored me but the politics got me really interested.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, The problem is that the people who say that something is the best thing they ever seen don't actually mean it. Often it's just hyperbole. When talking we other people fans tend to blow certain things out of proportion unintentionally. Overrated is likely the wrong word but you get what I mean.
leahcimali
@AidankAK47 oh and are you going to write a review about it or because psngel already wrote a review of it you are not gonna write it ?
leahcimali
the problem is trying to rank art . Even comparing a comedy show and a story focus show is clearly impossible. @AidanAK47 do you think the overhype of some hardcore logh fan killed you enjoyment of the show ? Because sometimes when you expect nothing of something you can enjoy it more than when waiting for something incredible.
leahcimali
i hear the same thing from fan of lord of the ring, star wars and game of thrones, star trek ... etc. The hardcore fan of those says that they are the greatest things in history ... but saying there are overated is discrediting the quality of those. Nothing is perfect and again maintening equal quality in a longuer running show is impossible. But having a longer story create a more rich background
LookingForKeys
@Mario Kimi no Na ha is pretty damn good. Watched it while in Japan a couple weeks back. The story has well done surprises, and on the graphics side you can *really* see Production IG worked on it.
leahcimali
I don't think saying logh is overated is a good way to say it. All media with great aclaimed critics or even highly popular show suffer from the fan reaction. If fan claim that it is the best things that they have ever saw and you don't agree, it feels overated. But this is only pure subjectivity. Saying he is greastest thing in history is a way for fan to exprim there love
AidanAK47
However it has been placed on a unreasonable pedestal that nothing could live up to. Eva is sort of in the same boat. So yes it is overrated but that does not mean it isn't great.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, if anything is claimed to be the greatest thing in the history of mankind it is overrated. The basic idea that there is a single anime out there which is fundamental and universally better than all other anime regardless of genre or intent is inherently a flawed concept. I do certainly see why LOGH is so highly acclaimed and I believe it is well worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I didn't look into the details of the new LOGH remake. I was planning on doing that when I am doing an anime season preview for it whenever it's going to air next year. For a long anime it does rate highly but even then I am not certain it really needed all 110 of those episodes.
leahcimali
about your comment are you thinking the LOGH anime is overated ? i ask Because you said that there is plenty of anime you consided better .
Anonymous476875
about the remake won't it be a straight adaptation from the manga remake by the artist that made shiki ?
Anonymous476875
AidanAK47 personally i really loved legend of the galactic heroes and it is one of the anime that make one of the biggest impact on me. I found it the best "long" anime that i ever seen (more than 24 ep). But comparing it to anime with shorter format is a bit hard. you can make something that have perfect pacing in 1h30 but it is impossible with a 110 ep anime.
AidanAK47
Either way I am pretty certain that all other isn't crap to me now seeing as I have seen the so called pinnacle. In fact There are plenty of anime I consider better that LOGH.
AidanAK47
There are aspects of its story which wouldn't really work by today's standards.
AidanAK47
And I did it. I watched legend of the galactic heroes. I have slain the white whale of anime. It certainly was interesting to say the least but I think the remake coming is going to have trouble. I am in between giving it a 8 or a 9 but it's clear that LOGH is very much a product of its time.
Kaiser Eoghan
I didn't really care for this weeks flipflappers, the fanservice and also it was even more trigger than I could take.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Gavin@Mario: I'll get round to your name someday but I think this might be my last chance with shinkai.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: That disgaea review made me nostalgic because I remember my friends and I playing it back when it first came out. We found it difficult but were amused by it/liked the characters.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Are the manga posts exclusively for series with only a few chapters translated or series that came out in the past year or so? I've been reading gunka no balthazar and enjoying it enough and think it should get recommendation out there.
Topgavin
Just booked tickets to go see it on Sunday with my little sister. Was surprisingly reluctant but I know she'll like it, I've already seen it but pumped either way.
SuperMario
Your name movie has been showed theatrically here in Aus, I'm planning to rewatch it soon in theatre and then do a review on it. Is that alright with other admins?
SuperMario
so I guess the top 6 will advance to the final are: Otabek Altin (Kazakhstan), Giacometti (Switzerland), Yuri, Yurio, JJ and Phichit? Will be very cool final event haha
SuperMario
At the very least Yuri on Ice shows me how entertaining ice skating can be
SuperMario
@K-Off: have a good trip ahead K-Off. Well, it's still better than Japan (earthquake) I guess
K-Off
Well, heading to Korea tomorrow. What a time to go. In the middle of Korea's biggest financial scandal since the 80s.
Lenlo
Is it just me, or does the Yuri on Ice opening get more colorful and detailed every week?
SuperMario
Badesh, if you like to check out their other songs, give "Tunnels of Love" and "Romeo & Juliet" a listen. Though I just discovered Telegraph Road quite recently, those 2 songs are qmong my all time favorite
SuperMario
I prefer their ealier version when the band was still together (aLCHEMY 1983), but that Rome 2005 was magnificent too. Seriously with this band diifferent live versions feel like another experience... And that song is criminally under-heard in radio too, because of its running time. A crying shame
Badesh
uhh, found it in better quality. now, THAT is a fitting present for my dad :)
Badesh
well that commentator, that sounds like he's in a soccer match, will get on my nerves though...
Badesh
if you're talking about the rome 2005 version... hell, that's some sweet music. i'll inhale that for the rest of the evening, thanks for that
SuperMario
Anyone here listen to Dire Straits? I just in the mood for their music lately. Checked out the band playing Telegraph Road live the other day on youtube and I was completely stunned.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I considered Flip Flappers 3,5,6 to be its best so far so continue on to see if Flip Flappers is your cup of tea or not
SuperMario
For me I have a lot of stuffs to catch up on this time a year, both in terms of anime and in my RL. Time goes fast as hell
Lenlo
Started watching Flip Flappers. Thought I had it figured out, then we got Mad Max going on. I may start liking it more, cause the first 2 eps didnt do much
Lenlo
Its also nearing Thanksgiving in the states and end of semester for University, so those sorts will be busier than usual.
AidanAK47
You are far too young to be reminiscing. You can build a place for a community but you can't force one to come. I for one would think it would be easier to form one if people stopped using the Anon tag. You can change your name with the customize button you know.
Anonymous469664
I remember a time when people other than site admins were regular posters. Those were the days...
AidanAK47
But I suppose watching Westworld isn't exactly a waste of time.
AidanAK47
Downside is that I really don't have a lot of time these days. It's rather annoying. The day goes by and it doesn't really feel like you did anything.
AidanAK47
On the upside, I am nearly finished Legend of the galactic heroes. So when the Remake airs next year I will have a lot to say about it.
AidanAK47
Personally I have been rather busy lately and wanted to finish off a few things. Hence why my posts have been getting later.
AidanAK47
Anyway when there's nothing on the chat box to talk about then of course it dries up.
AidanAK47
You have unfortunate timing.
Anonymous469664
All the chat regulars have left house as well.
Anonymous469664
Four days since a single post.
K-Off
Damn, I don't know if it's the layout/algorithm/mods, but so many subreddits that I used to frequent have gotten watered down as hell. Between the influx of shills and changes to the upvote/downvote system (which doesn't properly convey controversial comments anymore, like 45 upvotes to 47 downvotes. Now it shows only a -2) it's hard to find reasonable debates or find important info
SuperMario
@K-off: and for that book the last time I checked it was $110 for you guys who live US plus free shipping. For us it's $150 not incluing the postage and few weeks delivery.
K-Off
Damn, I didn't realize that it could be that bad elsewhere. The worst experience I had was when I ordered a laser pointer from Switzerland over a forum, and the cunt didn't respond for nearly 4 weeks until I threatened to refund my $250 on PayPal.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Europe. That's the difference.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah I got a dispatch notice saying it's shipping now. I ordered it back in September as well so I don't know why the difference between us.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the days where I used to be relying on waiting for anime dvds to come out locally , looking back they were really overpriced, 35 euro for 4 or 5 episodes.
Kaiser Eoghan
My opinion on FMA alchemist ended up being all over the place because I must have watched 3 episodes every few months of it, then I stopped watching it for a year, got back into it for a few months, abandoned it for months then marathoned 20 episodes in one night to get it finished.
Kaiser Eoghan
See I've been thinking over FMA lately, if you join up the best episodes of brotherhood and the first adaptation you get the perfect show.
Kaiser Eoghan
And yet it would make sense to rewatch it. 2005/2006 were the days where I'd never marathon anything. I've seen the whole show obviously but with massive gaps in between.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, HEATHEN. Though I haven't seen the original fullmetal Alchemist in years. Watched it way back when I started anime. Would be good to pay it a revisit with this.
AidanAK47
@Mario, you actually got a dispatch notice? Cause mine is still waiting and I ordered back in September. Says it's going to dispatch next week but I have heard horror stories about peoples orders getting canceled due to lack of stock.
Kaiser Eoghan
And there I am, reminded that I haven't seen the first full metal alchemist since back in 2006.
SuperMario
Mine is shipping already, take about 2 weeks to get here. Can't wait haha
AidanAK47
Yep, I ordered that Spice and wolf book too...really hope I get one...
Total users: 22

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