Posted by psgels on 27 May 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

The second half of this episode took some huge risks. This series has been very composed in terms of acting; with some exceptions, the acting in this series was subdued and even during the over the top parts, the characters knew exactly how to act with just enough restraint whilst still giving off great performances. This episode drops that and descends into overblown melodrama. Not just to show how a character feels, but also vital to the story.

These are the moments when a character completely loses it. They’re not meant to be pretty, they just are about characters completely breaking down and looking very ugly in the process. This is incredibly hard to act right because it’s just all too easy to scream at the top of your lungs and do the most outrageous thing out there. Another key to this is willing suspension disbelief: as a viewer we really need to get the idea that these characters have broken down. Which is why I’m a bit puzzled that the creators chose to do this with the master who has gotten the least amount of airtime to get fleshed out so far. To be honest, that breakdown scene… it didn’t really hit me and looked more silly due to how little we actually know of these two people. It also felt like there was just too little build-up and aftermath for it. Tohsaka killed the woman, walked away and immediately we switch to Archer and Kirei sitting back and having some wine celebrating. It… doesn’t flow well.

Also, an observation that I made before this all happened: in the first season, Rider really was the stand-out character: his charisma and monologues were wonderful and it brought a lot of spark to the series. In the second season… this just doesn’t apply at all. He has been weakened and beaten pretty often, with in this episode him losing his chariot, in favor of characters as Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu. This can be quite interesting build-up if the final episodes know how to handle it.
Rating: * (Good)

38 Responses

  1. Rachnid says:

    I believe his name is Matou Kariya. Anyway, that scene didn’t hit me as well. But the part where he place his head closely beside her instead of over her, which strangling scenes usually look like, is a nice touch.

    On a side note, Kirei’s voice has been bugging me since the first episode, I was confused for a long time trying to figure out who’s voice his belonged to while they were walking in circles. But hearing him being called Father this episode, it finally fit.

  2. JCD says:

    “Tohsaka killed the woman” – probably meant Kariya there.

    Alexander annoyed me alot as well in this episode. Charges head-on on an enemy aimlessy? How many countries did he conquer by that?

  3. yokushi says:

    Kariya was fleshed enough and he was one of the most popular Masters, it’s typical Urobuchi Gen tragedy here.

    And Rider is the same old Rider, is just that things are pretty hard and he’s being affected too. He didn’t charged head-on on an enemy aimlessy, it was a 50-50 situation and the only way he had to win Saber, so he tried. At the end, he was worried about Waver so he jumped.

    • wicked says:

      well, he was also holding back, saving his Ionioi Hetairoi for another, while Saber used her strongest phantasm Excalibur. Waver is really an inadequate magician for a servant like Rider, and he realized this last episode I believe.

      • Moriae says:

        This is why Saber won without struggle:

        a) He didn’t want to kill her, only best her. Saber, on the other hand, always aims to kill. She’s a lot more ruthless than he is.
        b) His chariot wasn’t in optimal condition. It’s in the previous episode. Clearler in the novel, that it can only fly but not really be used as full power because of prana depletion (he refuses to take from Waver and uses his own sources or the leylines. It’s Saber’s issue with Shirou in FSN, only hers isn’t willing).
        c) And yes, he ditched a chance of victory to rescue Waver (not very clear in this episode).

  4. wicked says:

    Kariya doesnt have much of a purpose in the whole Grail War, pretty much every single appearance he gets, he’s been obsessed with hating Tokiomi and and saving Sakura, and all of it stems from his unrequited love for Tokiomi’s wife which I think was established during his first appearance on the show. Literally every single one of his appearances so far has been about building up to that moment

  5. AidanAK47 says:

    I am surprised you didn’t comment on the motorcycle scene. Cause I got to say that was the best combination of CG and animation I have ever seen. It was flawless.

    On the Kariya scene, I am mixed on it. Though the problems I have with it are the exaggerated facial expressions which looked more comical than expressive and the way they made it seem that Kariya did it intentionally where as in the Light novel he did it in a fit of madness because he was pretty much mentally broken at that point. They should have shown him strained while talking to Kirei instead of talking calmly.

    Though maybe extra scenes from the Blurays would fix this.

  6. Gustavo says:

    Ryder was victorious. He evaded her trumph card without using his. If he really wanted, he could have beaten her, since she shouldnt be able to use Excalibur again so soon. But he was aware of Archer, so he restrained himself. Dont go after one prey wish so much tirst… Risk only this much, and if dont work, dont push. Ryder really is a great caracter.

    • ChocoBar says:

      Wow..talk about a server case of denial

      • Gustavo says:

        So tell me what would have happened if he did use his noble fantasm after Saber’s attack. Who do you think would win? He just didnt want to.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Gustavo, Rider lost one of his greatest assets in a gamble that gained him nothing and now only has a trump card which can only be used once or twice more. Excalibur can recharge but that chariot ain’t coming back.

          A lost battle is a lost battle. Accept it.

  7. meow says:

    Hm….”suspension of disbelief”. Definitely felt this in many ways after watching this episode.

    Saber should have been tracking Irisviel. Not Rider specifically. Plus even though Berserker was disguised, I can’t believe that includes his presence. I’m a bit disappointed that Saber wound up tracking the wrong target.

    I’m also annoyed that Rider used his Chariot on Saber instead of going in for close-range combat. He said he had a lesson to teach Saber. That should have meant communication, the crossing of swords at close range. An epic duel that could have eventually culminated in a chariot charge. This series could use a glorious moment amidst all this dark tragedy. Instead there’s just this quick senseless charge that has no chance of being successful. No feints. No tactics. Geez, Rider’s actually seen this move in action. He should have been better prepared. And after Saber rather predictably wins, she just turns and leaves without another word. What about asking what happened to Irisviel, at the very least? Why’d she waste all that mana, including setting off her Noble Phantasm when she had a more important task at hand?

    I’m incredibly disappointed in Kariya and even Aoi losing their cools that way. Especially Aoi’s accusation at Kariya for taking Sakura from her makes no sense to me. Way before the war started, Kariya had already demanded to know from Aoi why Sakura had been handed over to Zouken. She should have known that Kariya had left the Matous and had nothing to do with it. Unless she was blaming Kariya leaving the Matous as the reason Sakura wound up in Matou hands, which is even more pathetic. And why didn’t Aoi notice that Tokiomi had been dead for awhile? Why didn’t any of them question this whole situation? Especially Kariya. Does he ever suspect Kirei’s involvement? I would have expected him to have just folded and cried. Or run away. Why attack Aoi? This is one of the most disgusting scenes I’ve seen yet. What detail there was in the scene of Kariya strangling Aoi. What a dark, evil story. This is why I refused to watch Kara no Kyoukai. I think I’m going to be very cautious of touching anything Type-Moon or Nitroplus come out with ever again. =.=

    Sigh…sorry for the rant. I’m asking myself wtf I’m doing watching this crap. I hate this kind of thing.

    • Gustavo says:

      Well, aboute Kariya: Aoi saw her dead husband and Kariya at the crime scene. She felt hatred and wanted to hurt Kariya somehow. Then, its obvious that she would start saying things to that intent, even if she knew they werent true. She just wanted to hurt him. My ex-girlfriend did it many times. Women just are like that.

      About Saber and Rider: Rider is a conqueror. As he himself explained, if he did win against Saber using her most powerfull attack, she would be conquered and would even be willing to join his army. He’s a conqueror! And Saber knew he would attack after she did what she did. There’s no excuses for attacking someone like that. “Oh, I’m sorry for trying to kill you now, Good Sir. See ya!”… This would not work at all. And, above all, she wanted to accept the challenge. And wanted to end it fast. Had she used any other trick, she would have lost the battle really fast. Rider is not to be underestimated. After seeing Rider losing his will to go any further in the battle, she just went away.

      There’s nothing so wrong with the episode. You’re just not looking with the right eyes. :)

      • sato says:

        Gustavo, your contempt for women is uncalled for. Despite what you may have personally experienced, please be aware that both sexes can be cruel.

        meow, I totally agree with your critique of this episode. How easily Saber lost track of Irisviel; the coincidence of the real Rider being in the exact same place, and how even he did not notice the fake Rider; the pointless fight despite Saber realizing Rider is not the one she’s after. The Kariya and Aoi encounter at the church was very frustrating in how eye-rollingly uninspired it was. This is in contrast with Lancer’s tragic demise, which had such elaborate orchestration.
        I’m probably most annoyed with how easily Kirei’s plans succeed, despite how much room for error they have, and how intelligent the other characters supposedly are.

        (I also have to say, Kara no Kyoukai is pretty good. It’s not really like Fate at all. The themes are more internal and touch on loneliness and self-hatred a lot. Though the first few installments are definitely better than the last.)

    • AidanAK47 says:

      Servants can only track other servants. They cannot track masters. If they could then they would know straight away that Irisviel is not Saber’s master and that her true master was hiding in the docks in episode 4.
      Berserker’s Noble Phantasm conceals everything about him. Hence why Waver couldn’t read his status at the docks. It isn’t a stretch to say this conceals his presence as well. Also Saber was focused on finding Rider…not Berserker.

      A Saber’s best skill is close combat. Fighting her with a sword is like fighting a master martial artist with fists. While it isn’t shown well here the reason she left is because she found out she was tricked and asking Rider anything about Irisviel is pointless as he wouldn’t know anything.

      It is not reasonable to expect a woman to act rationally when they just saw a man she trusted with the corpse of her husband. Aoi isn’t a forensic specialist so how could she tell that her husband was dead a while? For the most part she didn’t have any time to. Kariya’s attack is actually pretty reasonable. He is literally being eaten alive, half his body is dead and the woman he loved is screaming at him. He snapped. If anything considering everything he’s been through you should question why he didn’t go insane earlier.
      And this was your excuse to not watch Kara no Kyoukai? Come on, grow some balls. Dark stories are interesting.

      • meow says:

        Berserker’s Noble Phantasm conceals everything about him.

        Yes but he emits something that Saber can track. This isn’t the first time Saber’s run into both Rider and Berserker. Rider in particular, she’s been in close contact with on several occassions. Couldn’t she tell the difference? She should have been following the same entity from the start but got distracted by the Chariot instead. A reasonable mistake I suppose, but frustrating nonetheless considering it’s terrible consequences.

        Servants can only track other servants.

        Yes but they should also be able to sense and differential between magical auras, like bounded fields, etc. Saber displayed an unusual amount of knowledge of magic in season one when she first when to Emiya’s atelier. I would imagine Saber would have been familiar with Irisviel’s strong, unique magic signature.

        If I’m wrong, I apologize. I’m basically disappointed that Saber’s awesome Chevalier and her destroying Rider’s Chariot was the result of an unfortunate coincidence. I was also looking forward to an epic confrontation between Rider and Saber, perhaps a continuation of their war of words during the Dialogue of Kings. Rider had a point to make to Saber but it looks like he never got to make it.

        A Saber’s best skill is close combat.

        Yes but Rider is no slouch either. He may have been at a disadvantage but I daresay Saber would have her work cut out for her. A drawn out duel would have worked, perhaps ending in what we see here. It doesn’t seem like it makes any difference either way since Iris winds up in Kirei’s hands anyway but I think it would have been more epic. Instead, it feels like we got a rushed little skirmish between two parties who had no good reason to be fighting each other that winds up giving the bad guys a terrible advantage.

        To add salt to the wound, Kariya inexplicably winds up murdering Aoi in a reasonable fit of blind rage. What a way to get rid of the loose ends in the cast. I for one never knew Rin was an orphan. I knew she lost her dad but not her mom too. And what a way for her to die. I’m sorry Aidan, but watching a grieving husband and mother getting strangled to death in great detail by someone who supposedly cherished her, no matter how well it fits the story, simply does not entertain me. Especially on top of all the gut wrenching stuff that’s been happening since after Caster got taken down. To each his own I suppose.

        • Moriae says:

          Saber’s stats are better than Rider’s because of the Class and the quality of magus who summoned them. Facing her in close combat is bad.

          The only ones in this war who would be able to defeat her in a close combat are Lancer and Berserker.

        • wicked says:

          Rider was in no condition for a drawn out fight like saber against lancer, and the fact that he’s a rider shows that his talent lies else where(Shirou Archer was the only aberration in the series who had superior talents in fields other than his class designation). He had to rest in spirit form before because maintaining a physical form would use up his prana and he’s reserving it for another fight

          As far as tracking magic users, Servants can sense other servants but it’s not so much a magical radar, more like a magical motion sensor. In fact, in the novel she was visually tracking the Berserker as he jumps up and down, with periods which she cannot see, so when rider showed up again with the chariot and waver, she assumed that rider wanted to fight her full strength. The fact that Irisviel was not with him confused her, but by that time, she was already engaged in battle

          Rider was going to confront Saber anyways, the fight was inevitable

    • Mormegil says:

      “This is one of the most disgusting scenes I’ve seen yet. What detail there was in the scene of Kariya strangling Aoi. What a dark, evil story.”

      Welcome to Gen Urobuchi. No one gets a HAPPY END.

    • Moriae says:

      Aoi was hysterical in grief. So excuse her.

      Kariya’s mind and body deteriorated that he’s not really sane. The novel points out he would have done things differently if his brain was actually functional (he would have figured out Kirei is behind this). The issue with the anime is that they don’t really give credit to his state (which is so grave he’s a lump of dead flesh mobilized by magic) and the voice actor sounds too calm too when he was hysterical and his voice isn’t longer like Kariya’s.

      He didn’t attack Aoi in his mind. He couldn’t recognize who that woman was and why she was saying those things. He snaps back into reality when he notices it’s Aoi and releases her.

      • Gustavo says:

        It makes sense.

        • Moriae says:

          It always disturbs me a little how the anime makes Kariya look too pretty in his state? He was compared to a victim of a nuclear reactor explosion in how bad he was in the novels. He was nearly done for during that battle in episode 5. Anime did not give credit to how he was covered with his own blood as he staggered out from the sewers and collapsed in agony…

  8. Juno says:

    I think the problems most people are having with this episode had to do mostly with screenplay. I haven’t read all of volumes 3 and 4 of the novel yet, but if it’s anything like how the previous novels changed my perception of the first half of the anime (and the second half, for that matter), I have quite a bit of faith that Urobuchi’s excellent expository description can save scenes like this.

    On that note, I was still pretty jaw-dropped at the murder scene. Kariya did everything for Sakura and Aoi’s happiness, yet… slowly, but surely, everything he valued was taken away from him. It was bound to happen, but it’s like Kayneth and Lancer’s situation from earlier.
    Lancer was accused of seducing Kayneth’s fiancee, which is like repeating the exact same thing Lancer was trying to change about his past. And then, when he felt like all he had left was the taste of a chivalrous battle, he couldn’t even finish that. The despair led him to curse the grail like he did.
    And now, Kariya, whose only wish was to get revenge on Tokiomi and do something good for the two people he loved most in the world, is put into a situation where he has unintentionally “stolen” life force from Sakura and also “stolen” the life of his love’s husband, right in front of her eyes–at least, she saw it that way. So he felt guilty about Sakura and even though he wasn’t guilty of killing Tokiomi, Aoi blamed him for it… and that confusion and madness drove him to be “self-destructive,” which is common in Urobuchi tales about despair. If you have something you value and you’ve already lost enough of it that it seems pointless to keep the rest, why have that unstable incompleteness? Why not just get rid of it and not have to think about it ever again? It’s not exactly rational, but the stream of logic provides a temporary solace… until you realize what you’ve actually done.

    God, I’m not sure I’ll ever like Kotomine, even if I finish the Heaven’s Feel route, where I hear he’s much more tolerable…

    • meow says:

      You won’t exactly like him. He’ll just be overshadowed by a greater threat and won’t be in control the way he is here or in FSN.

      Well..one thing about this episode, it does seem to show that while Kotomine responded to Gil’s teasing with wicked words, he still seemed bored/disinterested. All the things he’s been trying all his life, including branching into all the different arms of Church service is out of the expectation of finding something that excites him and cures his boredom/lack of passion but while he seemed to be saying one thing to Archer, he seemed to look disappointed, as if the result of the confrontation between Kariya and Aoi didn’t excite him at all. He just said those things to keep Archer pleased and cooperative. Just my impression though. Hard to read those dead eyes of his. Maybe he was thinking about Zouken.

      • Rachnid says:

        I think he is just unfamiliar with anything related to feelings, his comment about how the wine tasted sold me the idea that he genuinely likes the whole sadist business.

      • Moriae says:

        From the novels:

        But if it was a development that betrayed none of his expectations – even if there were supposed to be no surprises – when he watched over it to the end, he felt a peculiar excitement.

        If it was to be named, it might be called a sense of “freshness”.

        The tragic scene just now was not a fantasy performed by actors. It was true that Kirei had guided the scene. But baring their innermost feelings, his fellow humans clashed against one another – the radiance of souls scattering the sparks was, without a doubt, authentic. While struggling to decide on an answer to Gilgamesh’s question, Kirei tasted the fragrance of the wine in his mouth again. Indeed, if it was surprise he was looking for, he was better off looking into this wine.

        “…… Why, I drank this before, and yet…… I did not notice how profound the taste of this wine was.”

        The King of Heroes smiled at Kirei who gazed at his wine glass, straight-faced.

        “The taste of a wine is disguised in unexpected forms depending on the side dish served alongside it. Looks like you have begun to understand the meaning of the phrase, ‘broaden one’s view’.”

        “……”

        Not knowing the best way to reply to the rapturous Gilgamesh, Kirei put down his empty glass and stood up. He thought about the things he was supposed to attend to later and felt that he could not afford to keep relaxing. Aoi, lying on the chapel floor, would undoubtedly require treatment. And he also had to retrieve the fleeing Kariya for his next course of action.

        Nevertheless, before leaving the room, Kirei once again glanced at the empty glass. He noticed that he felt reluctant to part with the wine, which he had finally finished.

        Earnestly, he thought – if I can taste such flavor from this wine, I would love to drink it again.

        • hoiut says:

          Good God, this is pretty dark stuff. It’s not just the anime’s fault, I realize.

          Hm.

          • Oroboros says:

            Indeed. I read the first volume and was horribly disappointed at the crass violation of the “show, not tell” rule, as well as the clumsy translation. (from the type-moon wiki website)

            This excerpt comes off much better, and more literary than straight-forward, expository. Different translation, perhaps?

  9. Tanz says:

    The tragic scene was not over the top but it wasn’t Fate/Zero’s style. I expected it to be less subtle on it. Its emotional impact is more on dialogue and quiet action like how Kiritsugu’s flashback went. I guess they went for a different style. Nothing wrong with trying but I hope they realized it didn’t fit as well.

  10. Dr. Pest says:

    Really? I found this one of the best episodes so far. The actions scenes seemed great to me and I found everything rather thrilling and emotional. I somehow find Kariya’s fate way more tragic than the one of Kiritsugu so far because of those things that happen. What I also really liked was this intriguing presence Kotomine emitted during the second half of this episode. His character developement makes him one of the most interesting characters of the Fate universe I think.

  11. Moekou says:

    The thing with Rider is that, while lots of people jumped on the “Rider is right and Saber is wrong” bandwagon due to his earlier impressive showing, the actual intention is to portray all of the kings as flawed in their vision.

    In Rider’s case, his greatest flaw is that he lets his visions of glory blind him to logic. In the past he pursued a vision for Oceanus without supporting evidence, although he was also able to turn it into a strength last episode by accepting that it was a poor decision. Here, he is once again letting his vision of his glorious climatic showdown with Gilgamesh blind him to the obvious fact that he is in mortal danger and was very likely to lose and die if he did not go all out. In fact, his decision to charge with his chariot was also part of his desire to prove his way despite self-calculated 50% odds, as he believed that by literally trampling over Excalibur (representing Saber’s ideals) with his chariot, he can make a point. Even now he’s still thinking about how great it’d be if Saber becomes his soldier when it should be evident such a line of thinking is a pointless waste of time. In a way, he is just as over-idealistic as Saber. Perhaps even more so, as at least she isn’t trying to make friends in the battlefield.

    All this makes Rider a more complex and likable character to me.

    • Moriae says:

      But Saber is wrong. That’s the entire premise of the Fate arc in FSN. This isn’t about her way of kingship. It’s about her wish and regrets.

      Rider was right in this. He was derailed because he assumed wrongly what was the root of her problems. But he could never sit down and talk things with her again (and he didn’t have Shirou’s advantage of sharing dreams. We know that without them, he never understands her anyway). Furthermore, Rider in the novels, never said a way of kingship was wrong. It was the opposite. When they met he acknowledged their differences while she remained narrow-minded. The problem with Saber is that she was a joyless person who made him sad so he saw her title as a burden for her. He wanted to save her.

  12. Mormegil says:

    “Also, an observation that I made before this all happened: in the first season, Rider really was the stand-out character: his charisma and monologues were wonderful and it brought a lot of spark to the series. In the second season… this just doesn’t apply at all. He has been weakened and beaten pretty often, with in this episode him losing his chariot, in favor of characters as Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu.”

    I think it has to do with the fact that Rider’s larger-than-life attitude is completely overshadowed by all the tragic and dark events taking place. There was a lot of build-up in the first 13 episodes of the series, so there was even time for Rider and Waver hijinks. Now, not so much… He truly is a likable fellow, though.

    The story’s in full swing, the ending is rushing toward us, and there’s pretty much nothing but despair ahead.

  13. kero says:

    I enjoyed the bike scene, definitely worth waiting for a higher quality
    dl

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KTravlos
@Kaiser. I have not watched most of them. But I have watched Z and All the President's Men. Both are great films. The issue with me is that while I like political thrillers I despite conspiracy theories. Far too many pol. thrillers dive into con.theory stuff. So I must be discriminating.
SuperMario
Okay, I'm off to watch Blade Runner 2049 now. Hopefully it can be as good as the original
Vonter
In contrast World's End Harem, surprisingly looks to be trying. It has one story trying to play straight, the scenario of being the last man in a world mainly habited by woman. And has had this framing of self worth, temptation and doubt I like. No work of art, but surprising for this type of manga.
Vonter
In regards to manga, I'll need to look for something good, being losing time with ecchi stuff. Which I can tell Okamoto should just make hentai, seeing as his latest work, doesn't even try to be anymore than pandering trash (at least older work, had a notion of a story).
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Did all the presidents men and Parallax view by Pakula appeal to you?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: Actually as your are a Greek....have you watched Z, missing, State of siege or the confession? None of them are actually in Greek but they were political thrillers directed by Costa Gravas.
Anonymous1490677
KT here: Well I am a sucker for political thrillers and "grand" politics, so the direction it took is quite fun for me. Even if it does indicate a Tomino ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
For me Titan peaked at volume 8 and I never bothered continuing on much further.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I remember a commenters on here a good while ago that mentioned the ending didn't satisfy or come together well and made the investment not worth it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Honestly it was only near the halfway point I vested any interest in pandora hearts, the first 4 volumes left me wondering if I'd drop it, then near the last few volumes I simply fell out of reading it.
Bokusenou
I feel like I'm one of the few people who don't understand why Re: Zero is so popular...the only characters I half liked were Puck & Crusch (the latter because she reminded me of Saber from the Fate series, minus the unnecessary perma-blush marks) My anime club screened the series and I really should have skipped those meetings...
Lenlo
Mmm Inuyashiki episode 2 tomorrow. Time to see where it goes
AidanAK47
@Anon, That reminds me. Anime limited better announce the date of the Re:Zero Blu-ray release at that panel of theirs at MCM London Comic Con. They are the only ones known to have licensed it and they have a partnership with Funimation. Even if we don't get a second season I have to get the first on Blu-ray.
Anonymous1490189
Emilia re:zero
AidanAK47
Finally Got that review up. Been sitting in my to do list for a while.
SuperMario
I remeber in Dragon ball, they state that Son Goku takes 6 years of training to become a Super Saiyan. His oldest son takes 3 years and then the youngest one... only takes 3 months of training with his mother. So yeah...
AidanAK47
While we are talking about manga, I was looking into getting some manga boxsets and I saw one for pandora hearts. However I started reading it and 15 chapters in I just can't get into it. I hear a lot of praise for it but is it really worth continuing?
AidanAK47
@Amagi, yep. Like Naruto with the nine tailed beasts and Sharingan. At first they were cool and then everyone and their mother had Sharingan or a tailed Beast.
Though If I had a problem with SNK its that I just find the thing to be poorly written overall. It has creative idea's, but the characters and dialogue is really weak in my eyes.
Amagi
You know that SuperSaiyan syndrome. At first it was special and mysterious, but once the second one gets to have the power they tend to pop up everywhere. Same with Claymore and basically almost every shounen ever.
Amagi
I overall like the SNK manga but I have to agree I really have a problem with this shounen trope of some speciality one character has that suddently turn out to be the speciality of many.
Lenlo
It turned from a horror/thriller to a sort of... shounen mystery thing for me. I wasnt a fan once EVERYONE became titans.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I dropped off at that point, picked it up again and read it up to date. Now I am falling out again. True be told I haven't really got into it since the beginning chapters and I am not a fan of the direction it took. If you don't like it now I say future chapters won't really change your mind.
Lenlo
Does Attack on Titan get better? I was reading it up until Season 2 came out and then just fell off the wagon.
KTravlos
oh what a cliffhanger in the Shingeki no Koyjin manga! I am happy where this is going!
Kaiser-Eoghan
I agree that the way the series addresses emotion has some interest to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The later chapters I read had some action in them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Had a read of the children of the wales manga, I am glad to see a shoujo that isn't based on an otome or school life series , additionally I like it on an aesthetic level, I can see it going somewhere but the fast-forward pace makes it hakes it harder to connect with.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Blame! was recently adapted and thats cyberpunk, even if it didn't follow the manga.
Amagi
@Kaiser: Agree. Cyber- and steampunk are two of the few settings I really dig. Especially because I think that there are a lot of potential plots and twists for cyberpunk/VR settings anime haven't used yet. AR is great too, the only series about that is Dennou Coil and it was made ~10 years ago. Maybe the SAO movie but it was just a movie.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here lol. I remember the toilet thingy but not the woman's backstory. That being said, I enjoyed the series as whole, though some parts were too K-ONish for my taste.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of would agorophobia maintain itself and they'd stay inside or would the fear of being raped/tortured/killed and bypass the agorophobia ?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Random tangent, but I would find it fascinating to see a hikkikomori subject to a home invasion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although honestly, I would prefer a cyberpunk wave of anime series to get popular again.
silver
I too am starting to really enjoy the 'adventure anime' genre. The medium of animation is uniquely suited to fantastical worldbuilding.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Was that the one where the girl is desperately trying not to piss herself? Also why can I remember that and not this blonde woman's backstory?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yep, agreed. It's at its best when it can use the settings to flesh out the characters. The episode after that one, one the other hand, was Sora no woto's dullest episode - where the main girl spends the whole episode waiting for a freaking phone call.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Blonde woman's backstory in the middle of sora no oto, that was the best episode of it.
SuperMario
@Amagi: for reccomendation, if you don't mind another cute girls in a post-apocalyptic world show, you can try Sora no Woto (Sound of the sky). I love that show to bits
SuperMario
But I'm not entirely sold on the show yet. I feel the relationships are a tad too heavy-handed. The light hearted tones don't work well for me but I really feel a From the New world's vibe from the show
SuperMario
@Amagi: I will talk about Children of the Whales here in the chatbox since we don't cover it. Damnit the cliffhanger. That series really focuses on the theme of repress their own feelings. From the children in the Mud Whales with their custom of not to cry in the funeral or their lacing their hands to express their gratitude. Episode 2 has that monster who basically eats others emotions
Kaiser-Eoghan
And by extension, I would hope that it would encourage adaptations of older fantasy manga aswell.
Amagi
I really hope this type of fantasy will become a new trend instead of the classical world of warcraft type of isekai
Amagi
There is just something really atmospherical about a few characters exploring an unknown world alone that is either almost or entirely devoid of humans or just weird like in Kino's Journey.
Amagi
Shuumatsu Shoujou, Houseki, Kino 2017 and Children of the Whales are shaping up to become my favorites this season. It's funny that they have so much in common, same with Made in Abyss, which also was my favorite of the last season.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, well there were fellows down in cork that decided to go Kite Surfing. They had to send out a boat to rescue the dumb bastards.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I saw that there were some profoundly stupid people ignoring the warnings, some guy even decided to go out swimming despite it.
AidanAK47
I am in some ways both relieved and disappointed.
AidanAK47
Well I got the day off work and the only thing that happened was that it was a bit windy. Wasn't really a big deal to be honest.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats the word on your end Aidan with regards to the Hurricane?
Kaiser-Eoghan
And of course raging bull, a rare case where I watched a film twice.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Y'know I've always, apart from Creed, ignored the Rocky sequels despite enjoying the first one, not really into watching a billion followups to a film. Films about fighters seem to connect with me, I got alot out of warrior, southpaw and Rocky.
KTravlos
I was surprised by how well Ancient Magus Bride was able to sell to me the naturalness of Elia's skull head, and the falseness of his conjured human head. Well done.
Lenlo
I do love a good boxing anime. Both Ashita no Joe and Hajime no Ippo are great, though for different reasons.
Vonter
Simply put, unlike Hajime no Ippo. Ashita no Joe, also was mainly about Joe, living in a poor rural town, struggling to make a living, and boxing came out as something that gave him meaning. Instead of the typical shounen of "becoming the best".
Vonter
I think it's bold when someone announced they want to make something like "the next Rocky". Since that's apparently what I get from this announcement. https://manga.tokyo/news/original-anime-megalo-box-inspired-by-ashita-no-joe-announced-for-spring-2018/
CJayTiii
Just watched Heaven's Feel Part 1 at the movie theater last night. DEAR LORD the animation was flawless. I honestly thought they nailed the calmer scenes a lot better than UBW as well. The wait for part 2 is gonna be brutal...
Amagi
Isekai isn't even bad, it's just that it became the worst case of formularic wish fulfillment masturbation nowadays. I actually wish we would get more proper isekai anime again, especially if it's some scifi or time travel stuff for once
AidanAK47
You know thinking about it, Muv Luv Alternative could be considered a deconstruction of Isekai before Isekai was even a thing. After all it actually has the elements of of Isekai.
AidanAK47
Gonna do up a review of the trilogy. Though first I need to post that Subahibi review I have had sitting in my Google docs. Twas waiting till we got the impressions done with.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I remember checking out Muv Luv and not being too impressed about it. When i cheeked out Alternative years ago I was blown away by how good it was. Usually VNs have moments of downtime where it can get boring no matter how good they are. But Alternative just had you from start to finish.
Amagi
@Aidan: Muv Luv Alt is one of the best VNs I've read. I am happy I always avoided spoilers before. The only thing I knew was that it gets heavy around chapter 6 or 7.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thanks for letting me know before I bothered booking for it.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: the plot doesn't make sense. As the story progresses, it gets weirder, the visual goes wilder and the ending doesn't wrap up much. I might need to watch the live-action version
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: See you rated fireworks 3 1/2, what did you think of it?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I suppose, same to you, hopefully you'll be alright.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: It was designed by Marta Akermann : https://friendist.deviantart.com/
Anonymous1482176
Can I get where the banner is from?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know there were 18 deaths back in the mid eighties when a storm struck here back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Seems that it will be at its worst in the west, that said I'm living in Dublin in the east so I'll probably get away with a power cut for a while. Thankfully I'm not back in work until Thursday and I won't be going anywhere tomorrow.
AidanAK47
Also Careful Kaiser, I hear we got a hurricane heading our way tomorrow.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Can't say I do. I got into anime around the time it was getting put on the internet. And I only started buying anime when I got a job. Now I got a whole bookcase of Blu-rays.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Remember back in the 90s when we didn't have all region dvd players and everything got released on region 1?
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, I checked though. Seems the screenings are strictly US for Heavens Feel. Sort of like how Grand Order isn't released for Europe either. Also took goddamn ages to get the Blu-Rays of UBW too. Aniplex just seems to hate us for some reason.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Dublin city university has/had an anime club.
Kaiser-Eoghan
These are all one time only things though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Eh....on rare occasions the Eye cinema in Galway and the Lighthouse in Dublin do screenings . Eiretakon has re-formed as J-con in Dublin and they do screenings.
AidanAK47
Playing Muv Luv Alternative and I just made it pass a certain infamous scene. Honestly...I thought seeing as I knew it was coming that it wouldn't hit that hard. But even after all these years...it still gives me chills.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Could be worse. There are no screenings in Ireland so the wait is a hell of a lot longer for me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'll likely be checking out Lu over the wall in early December.
Amagi
I am really looking forward to that new movie from the Tekkonkinkreet guy and Heaven's Feel but both screenings only happen in February so this will sadly still take a while.
SuperMario
Aah, I just missed the only screening of In the Corner of the World at my local cinema (it comes as part of a film festival, guess I will watch the pirated version then). Thankfully they screened Firework anime so I'm going to watch it. Now
SuperMario
I intend to still give Dies Irea another chance. don't know if it's worth it thou
SuperMario
Maybe those kidscheated half of the way because no one can WALK faster than me :)
Kaiser-Eoghan
The animation continues to be quite poor and its only getting 15 episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though I could definitely have seen my German Ex offended by it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Y'know I never even cared enough to think that people would be this offended by Dies Irae, it would be like being offended by the Naziploitation elements in hellsing . I find both far too silly to be in anyway offensive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, good that you keep up the exercise. I walk pretty much everywhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Little fiends likely taking performance enhancing drugs, know to poison them next beforehand =P
SuperMario
Still finished in a first half but 35 minutes for 5km is something I wasn't to proud of. Damnit.
SuperMario
Well, just finished a running event. The race was just 5 kilometer so I was aiming to run all the way. Ended up walking 1/3 of the way and lose to some 12 year old kids... I'm getting old, really!
AidanAK47
@Anon, That was a stupid move on their part. Still I prefer to judge a game based on the quality of the product and not outside circumstances.
Anonymous1479322
yooka laylee is okay but i hate it because they removed jontrons voice
KTravlos
new Altair OP is better than old Altair OP. But old ED is better than new. Man I really am sad Altair cannot have the 100_ episodes of LOGH. Because of that they really have to rush the story to make the politics work, but at same time rushing it undermines the story integrity. Which is a pity. I really think if Altair had the LOGH treatment, it would be a stupendous tale of politics.
AidanAK47
I got that with Yooka Laylee which I thought was a decent fun game. However the internet has determined it to be a flaming trash pile of a game. I even have a friend who never played the game but bashes it purely because it's so hated.
KTravlos
While I understand the point, and have indeed watched stuff both psgel and the current writers have not given a high score too, generally speaking our tastes are complimentary. In a world of scarce time and quite a lot of stress over things like work or relationships, I will take the cognitive short-cuts I can for my hobbies, and FOMO be damned! :)
AidanAK47
That may actually be quite the common occurrence as internet opinion tends to veer to extremely positive or extremely negative. Something can't simply be good, it most be amazing. Somehting can't be passable either, it has to be garbage.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I agree with that. In truth you can only really judge something when you have seen it yourself. I will even admit that mine and likely the others reviews of Imouto are a bit of Hyperbole. It's really not the most terrible thing I have ever seen. Actually I would say Dynamic cord was worse.
Anonymous1478520
(i already found some nice things i would have neglected otherwise or deemed worthless based on reviews/seasonal previews etc)
Anonymous1478520
So i concluded that even if those people were writing good reviews and had somewhat compatible tastes with me, were nice and intelligent people overall in the end it did not mattered that much. while others' opinions are helpful, my own taste is the only thing i can really trust. so watching everything it is
Anonymous1478520
I used to chose my shows based on reviews from people i trust, this site included, but then i just started trying out everything and - shocking, i know - suddenly i liked things others did not. or vice versa, which were a possibility even before.
Lenlo
Thats why I only really watch/checked out things that piqued my interest. Was gonna do it anyways, so why not write about i
SuperWooper
Comprehensive sampling does have its benefits, though. Animegataris is a show I wouldn't have touched on my own, but it was quite watchable.
SuperWooper
@Kaiser, I agree that only the better-looking shows need to be previewed, but being a new recruit, I can't exactly influence the long-standing Star Crossed policy of giving everything a shot.
SuperMario
@anon1477190: that moment you mentioned about Kino losing her cool was good, but then they followed up on the obvious exposition about the couple which I felt was heavy-handed.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up mainly because I don't want to see any of the writers getting burned out/demotivated/having their time wasted.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Guys it must be incredibly time consuming to watch some of these obviously from the outset bottom of the barrel shows you know will be awful and you'll never cover, I doubt anyone would have complained if you didn't mention Imouto Ireba.
Lenlo
The ending was good, but leading up to it was sort of dull
Lenlo
Agreed on how Kino felt this week. What really got me though was how she held the gun. That bugged me in those pov shots
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, I'm not keen to go over old material, I'll just watch the new Kino stories.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I get claustrophobic sometimes, so Haze by Tsukamoto Shinya was fucking un-comfortable =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Ganja and hess, Die Farbe, Texas chainsaw 2, shop of horrors and AM 1200 stood out best.
Anonymous1477190
*I will admit that I enjoyed the ending bit a little more though. Something about Kino throwing that big rock was moving somehow, especially with how stoic she normally is, haha.
Anonymous1477190
I was a bit disappointed by Kino this week. I actually enjoyed the original Colosseum, but more for some of the individual fights rather than the conflict with the main antagonist. So the speed with which they went through them wasn't my favorite thing.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: haha, sounds fun. Any good horror worth reccomending?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Tried doing that horror 30 horror movies in Autumn challenge thing, fun times but bloody exhausting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will finally be getting on to magus bride SOON.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just try not to compare any of his works to yi yi and you'll be fine. Pity we lost him too soon.
SuperMario
I'm meaning to watch Terrorizers for quite a while now. You beat me to it again. So it's that good huh??
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I did end up re-watching terrorizers and finishing it this time, never ever have I bee so wrong to initially under-estimate a director or film, the second half massively improves the film and comes together perfectly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ...conditions are very hard to get right on screen, it almost ends up being horribly sappy. This is why when I saw Moon-so-ri's performance in Oasis I was so surprised by how excellent she depicted her characters disability, to where if I didn't know better I'd have sworn it was for real.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: and sometimes they take an "artistic liberty" to change the real stories to make it more dramatic. Case in point, I was so moved by A Beautiful Mind until I read it that the main guy doesn't have those issues in real life. Felt deeply manipulated
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Largely due to and not helped by the fact most biopics are over two hours long.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: glad you enjoyed Loving Vincent. I'm a bit worried about its story to be honest since it's a biopic and sometimes biopic can be so dry like a powerpoint presentation about someone's life
SuperMario
WE DEMAND THE 20 MINUTES BACK
Kaiser-Eoghan
Stupid imouto anime....bullying Aidan and Mario.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*their
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why must all artistic/creative be so out of there minds =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I saw Loving Vincent, I knew very little about the man himself before seeing, but this did an alright job of introducing the viewer to who he was, the voice acting/script is slightly stilted but in the end it works as a vehicle to get from one nicely rendered/animated scene to the next and its worth looking at for 90 minutes .
SuperMario
@Puran: that story from Kino was one of my least favorite from 2003 version. This week they changed quite a bit of details, most notably they speed through the gladiator fights. The result... well... average for me
Kaiser-Eoghan
That book seems to have a tv show adaptation.
AidanAK47
I actually have been meaning to read Jonathan Strange an Mr.Norrel.. Might put it next on my reading list.
Puran
(and, I thought the old one handled the story much better...)
Puran
New Kino ep was a remake of a story in the old anime... It's really not helping me in trying to avoid comparing the two series.
SuperWooper
@KTravlos, you like Jonathan Strange? Good taste, my man.
KTravlos
I watched the Ancient Magus Bride OVA after your suggestions. It was very nice. A mix of Howl's Moving Castle and Jonathan Strange an Mr.Norrel. I will definitely follow this series. Thank you.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: lol I go once a week if I can.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose it would be more sand on glass animation: [link src="https://letterboxd.com/director/caroline-leaf/
https://letterboxd.com/film/carmen-habanera/"]
SuperMario
@Travlos: I liked the Dragon Dentist. Loved its art but yeah the story is unfocused and the characters aren't those that I consider deep
SuperMario
@Kaiser: well, yep animation techniques can be really diverse and I did a good deal of research about them. For sand animation, do you refer to the sand performing art? I would love to see that type have a proper animation but there is a debate of whether or not it can be considered as "animation"
SuperMario
@Kaiser: haha you're lucky. Now that when I think about that, despite considered myself a film fan I haven't stepped to the cinema for 6 months now. Shame on me!
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Is it possible to make it so we can alter our profile pages on the site, so as to be able to add a short bio or top ten list of our favourite shows/manga?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, excellent loving vincent is showing tomorrow at my local cinema.
Kaiser-Eoghan
When you think about it, I love how varied animation can actually be....I've even come across salt and sand animation.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nuuuu I missed my chance to see body and soul. I am very much looking forward to Kim-ki-duks new film.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: to be more exact, Petrov uses painting on glass. Loving Vincent will be painting on paper. But yeah, no real difference there
Total users: 22

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