Posted by psgels on 27 May 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

The second half of this episode took some huge risks. This series has been very composed in terms of acting; with some exceptions, the acting in this series was subdued and even during the over the top parts, the characters knew exactly how to act with just enough restraint whilst still giving off great performances. This episode drops that and descends into overblown melodrama. Not just to show how a character feels, but also vital to the story.

These are the moments when a character completely loses it. They’re not meant to be pretty, they just are about characters completely breaking down and looking very ugly in the process. This is incredibly hard to act right because it’s just all too easy to scream at the top of your lungs and do the most outrageous thing out there. Another key to this is willing suspension disbelief: as a viewer we really need to get the idea that these characters have broken down. Which is why I’m a bit puzzled that the creators chose to do this with the master who has gotten the least amount of airtime to get fleshed out so far. To be honest, that breakdown scene… it didn’t really hit me and looked more silly due to how little we actually know of these two people. It also felt like there was just too little build-up and aftermath for it. Tohsaka killed the woman, walked away and immediately we switch to Archer and Kirei sitting back and having some wine celebrating. It… doesn’t flow well.

Also, an observation that I made before this all happened: in the first season, Rider really was the stand-out character: his charisma and monologues were wonderful and it brought a lot of spark to the series. In the second season… this just doesn’t apply at all. He has been weakened and beaten pretty often, with in this episode him losing his chariot, in favor of characters as Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu. This can be quite interesting build-up if the final episodes know how to handle it.
Rating: * (Good)

38 Responses

  1. Rachnid says:

    I believe his name is Matou Kariya. Anyway, that scene didn’t hit me as well. But the part where he place his head closely beside her instead of over her, which strangling scenes usually look like, is a nice touch.

    On a side note, Kirei’s voice has been bugging me since the first episode, I was confused for a long time trying to figure out who’s voice his belonged to while they were walking in circles. But hearing him being called Father this episode, it finally fit.

  2. JCD says:

    “Tohsaka killed the woman” – probably meant Kariya there.

    Alexander annoyed me alot as well in this episode. Charges head-on on an enemy aimlessy? How many countries did he conquer by that?

  3. yokushi says:

    Kariya was fleshed enough and he was one of the most popular Masters, it’s typical Urobuchi Gen tragedy here.

    And Rider is the same old Rider, is just that things are pretty hard and he’s being affected too. He didn’t charged head-on on an enemy aimlessy, it was a 50-50 situation and the only way he had to win Saber, so he tried. At the end, he was worried about Waver so he jumped.

    • wicked says:

      well, he was also holding back, saving his Ionioi Hetairoi for another, while Saber used her strongest phantasm Excalibur. Waver is really an inadequate magician for a servant like Rider, and he realized this last episode I believe.

      • Moriae says:

        This is why Saber won without struggle:

        a) He didn’t want to kill her, only best her. Saber, on the other hand, always aims to kill. She’s a lot more ruthless than he is.
        b) His chariot wasn’t in optimal condition. It’s in the previous episode. Clearler in the novel, that it can only fly but not really be used as full power because of prana depletion (he refuses to take from Waver and uses his own sources or the leylines. It’s Saber’s issue with Shirou in FSN, only hers isn’t willing).
        c) And yes, he ditched a chance of victory to rescue Waver (not very clear in this episode).

  4. wicked says:

    Kariya doesnt have much of a purpose in the whole Grail War, pretty much every single appearance he gets, he’s been obsessed with hating Tokiomi and and saving Sakura, and all of it stems from his unrequited love for Tokiomi’s wife which I think was established during his first appearance on the show. Literally every single one of his appearances so far has been about building up to that moment

  5. AidanAK47 says:

    I am surprised you didn’t comment on the motorcycle scene. Cause I got to say that was the best combination of CG and animation I have ever seen. It was flawless.

    On the Kariya scene, I am mixed on it. Though the problems I have with it are the exaggerated facial expressions which looked more comical than expressive and the way they made it seem that Kariya did it intentionally where as in the Light novel he did it in a fit of madness because he was pretty much mentally broken at that point. They should have shown him strained while talking to Kirei instead of talking calmly.

    Though maybe extra scenes from the Blurays would fix this.

  6. Gustavo says:

    Ryder was victorious. He evaded her trumph card without using his. If he really wanted, he could have beaten her, since she shouldnt be able to use Excalibur again so soon. But he was aware of Archer, so he restrained himself. Dont go after one prey wish so much tirst… Risk only this much, and if dont work, dont push. Ryder really is a great caracter.

    • ChocoBar says:

      Wow..talk about a server case of denial

      • Gustavo says:

        So tell me what would have happened if he did use his noble fantasm after Saber’s attack. Who do you think would win? He just didnt want to.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Gustavo, Rider lost one of his greatest assets in a gamble that gained him nothing and now only has a trump card which can only be used once or twice more. Excalibur can recharge but that chariot ain’t coming back.

          A lost battle is a lost battle. Accept it.

  7. meow says:

    Hm….”suspension of disbelief”. Definitely felt this in many ways after watching this episode.

    Saber should have been tracking Irisviel. Not Rider specifically. Plus even though Berserker was disguised, I can’t believe that includes his presence. I’m a bit disappointed that Saber wound up tracking the wrong target.

    I’m also annoyed that Rider used his Chariot on Saber instead of going in for close-range combat. He said he had a lesson to teach Saber. That should have meant communication, the crossing of swords at close range. An epic duel that could have eventually culminated in a chariot charge. This series could use a glorious moment amidst all this dark tragedy. Instead there’s just this quick senseless charge that has no chance of being successful. No feints. No tactics. Geez, Rider’s actually seen this move in action. He should have been better prepared. And after Saber rather predictably wins, she just turns and leaves without another word. What about asking what happened to Irisviel, at the very least? Why’d she waste all that mana, including setting off her Noble Phantasm when she had a more important task at hand?

    I’m incredibly disappointed in Kariya and even Aoi losing their cools that way. Especially Aoi’s accusation at Kariya for taking Sakura from her makes no sense to me. Way before the war started, Kariya had already demanded to know from Aoi why Sakura had been handed over to Zouken. She should have known that Kariya had left the Matous and had nothing to do with it. Unless she was blaming Kariya leaving the Matous as the reason Sakura wound up in Matou hands, which is even more pathetic. And why didn’t Aoi notice that Tokiomi had been dead for awhile? Why didn’t any of them question this whole situation? Especially Kariya. Does he ever suspect Kirei’s involvement? I would have expected him to have just folded and cried. Or run away. Why attack Aoi? This is one of the most disgusting scenes I’ve seen yet. What detail there was in the scene of Kariya strangling Aoi. What a dark, evil story. This is why I refused to watch Kara no Kyoukai. I think I’m going to be very cautious of touching anything Type-Moon or Nitroplus come out with ever again. =.=

    Sigh…sorry for the rant. I’m asking myself wtf I’m doing watching this crap. I hate this kind of thing.

    • Gustavo says:

      Well, aboute Kariya: Aoi saw her dead husband and Kariya at the crime scene. She felt hatred and wanted to hurt Kariya somehow. Then, its obvious that she would start saying things to that intent, even if she knew they werent true. She just wanted to hurt him. My ex-girlfriend did it many times. Women just are like that.

      About Saber and Rider: Rider is a conqueror. As he himself explained, if he did win against Saber using her most powerfull attack, she would be conquered and would even be willing to join his army. He’s a conqueror! And Saber knew he would attack after she did what she did. There’s no excuses for attacking someone like that. “Oh, I’m sorry for trying to kill you now, Good Sir. See ya!”… This would not work at all. And, above all, she wanted to accept the challenge. And wanted to end it fast. Had she used any other trick, she would have lost the battle really fast. Rider is not to be underestimated. After seeing Rider losing his will to go any further in the battle, she just went away.

      There’s nothing so wrong with the episode. You’re just not looking with the right eyes. :)

      • sato says:

        Gustavo, your contempt for women is uncalled for. Despite what you may have personally experienced, please be aware that both sexes can be cruel.

        meow, I totally agree with your critique of this episode. How easily Saber lost track of Irisviel; the coincidence of the real Rider being in the exact same place, and how even he did not notice the fake Rider; the pointless fight despite Saber realizing Rider is not the one she’s after. The Kariya and Aoi encounter at the church was very frustrating in how eye-rollingly uninspired it was. This is in contrast with Lancer’s tragic demise, which had such elaborate orchestration.
        I’m probably most annoyed with how easily Kirei’s plans succeed, despite how much room for error they have, and how intelligent the other characters supposedly are.

        (I also have to say, Kara no Kyoukai is pretty good. It’s not really like Fate at all. The themes are more internal and touch on loneliness and self-hatred a lot. Though the first few installments are definitely better than the last.)

    • AidanAK47 says:

      Servants can only track other servants. They cannot track masters. If they could then they would know straight away that Irisviel is not Saber’s master and that her true master was hiding in the docks in episode 4.
      Berserker’s Noble Phantasm conceals everything about him. Hence why Waver couldn’t read his status at the docks. It isn’t a stretch to say this conceals his presence as well. Also Saber was focused on finding Rider…not Berserker.

      A Saber’s best skill is close combat. Fighting her with a sword is like fighting a master martial artist with fists. While it isn’t shown well here the reason she left is because she found out she was tricked and asking Rider anything about Irisviel is pointless as he wouldn’t know anything.

      It is not reasonable to expect a woman to act rationally when they just saw a man she trusted with the corpse of her husband. Aoi isn’t a forensic specialist so how could she tell that her husband was dead a while? For the most part she didn’t have any time to. Kariya’s attack is actually pretty reasonable. He is literally being eaten alive, half his body is dead and the woman he loved is screaming at him. He snapped. If anything considering everything he’s been through you should question why he didn’t go insane earlier.
      And this was your excuse to not watch Kara no Kyoukai? Come on, grow some balls. Dark stories are interesting.

      • meow says:

        Berserker’s Noble Phantasm conceals everything about him.

        Yes but he emits something that Saber can track. This isn’t the first time Saber’s run into both Rider and Berserker. Rider in particular, she’s been in close contact with on several occassions. Couldn’t she tell the difference? She should have been following the same entity from the start but got distracted by the Chariot instead. A reasonable mistake I suppose, but frustrating nonetheless considering it’s terrible consequences.

        Servants can only track other servants.

        Yes but they should also be able to sense and differential between magical auras, like bounded fields, etc. Saber displayed an unusual amount of knowledge of magic in season one when she first when to Emiya’s atelier. I would imagine Saber would have been familiar with Irisviel’s strong, unique magic signature.

        If I’m wrong, I apologize. I’m basically disappointed that Saber’s awesome Chevalier and her destroying Rider’s Chariot was the result of an unfortunate coincidence. I was also looking forward to an epic confrontation between Rider and Saber, perhaps a continuation of their war of words during the Dialogue of Kings. Rider had a point to make to Saber but it looks like he never got to make it.

        A Saber’s best skill is close combat.

        Yes but Rider is no slouch either. He may have been at a disadvantage but I daresay Saber would have her work cut out for her. A drawn out duel would have worked, perhaps ending in what we see here. It doesn’t seem like it makes any difference either way since Iris winds up in Kirei’s hands anyway but I think it would have been more epic. Instead, it feels like we got a rushed little skirmish between two parties who had no good reason to be fighting each other that winds up giving the bad guys a terrible advantage.

        To add salt to the wound, Kariya inexplicably winds up murdering Aoi in a reasonable fit of blind rage. What a way to get rid of the loose ends in the cast. I for one never knew Rin was an orphan. I knew she lost her dad but not her mom too. And what a way for her to die. I’m sorry Aidan, but watching a grieving husband and mother getting strangled to death in great detail by someone who supposedly cherished her, no matter how well it fits the story, simply does not entertain me. Especially on top of all the gut wrenching stuff that’s been happening since after Caster got taken down. To each his own I suppose.

        • Moriae says:

          Saber’s stats are better than Rider’s because of the Class and the quality of magus who summoned them. Facing her in close combat is bad.

          The only ones in this war who would be able to defeat her in a close combat are Lancer and Berserker.

        • wicked says:

          Rider was in no condition for a drawn out fight like saber against lancer, and the fact that he’s a rider shows that his talent lies else where(Shirou Archer was the only aberration in the series who had superior talents in fields other than his class designation). He had to rest in spirit form before because maintaining a physical form would use up his prana and he’s reserving it for another fight

          As far as tracking magic users, Servants can sense other servants but it’s not so much a magical radar, more like a magical motion sensor. In fact, in the novel she was visually tracking the Berserker as he jumps up and down, with periods which she cannot see, so when rider showed up again with the chariot and waver, she assumed that rider wanted to fight her full strength. The fact that Irisviel was not with him confused her, but by that time, she was already engaged in battle

          Rider was going to confront Saber anyways, the fight was inevitable

    • Mormegil says:

      “This is one of the most disgusting scenes I’ve seen yet. What detail there was in the scene of Kariya strangling Aoi. What a dark, evil story.”

      Welcome to Gen Urobuchi. No one gets a HAPPY END.

    • Moriae says:

      Aoi was hysterical in grief. So excuse her.

      Kariya’s mind and body deteriorated that he’s not really sane. The novel points out he would have done things differently if his brain was actually functional (he would have figured out Kirei is behind this). The issue with the anime is that they don’t really give credit to his state (which is so grave he’s a lump of dead flesh mobilized by magic) and the voice actor sounds too calm too when he was hysterical and his voice isn’t longer like Kariya’s.

      He didn’t attack Aoi in his mind. He couldn’t recognize who that woman was and why she was saying those things. He snaps back into reality when he notices it’s Aoi and releases her.

      • Gustavo says:

        It makes sense.

        • Moriae says:

          It always disturbs me a little how the anime makes Kariya look too pretty in his state? He was compared to a victim of a nuclear reactor explosion in how bad he was in the novels. He was nearly done for during that battle in episode 5. Anime did not give credit to how he was covered with his own blood as he staggered out from the sewers and collapsed in agony…

  8. Juno says:

    I think the problems most people are having with this episode had to do mostly with screenplay. I haven’t read all of volumes 3 and 4 of the novel yet, but if it’s anything like how the previous novels changed my perception of the first half of the anime (and the second half, for that matter), I have quite a bit of faith that Urobuchi’s excellent expository description can save scenes like this.

    On that note, I was still pretty jaw-dropped at the murder scene. Kariya did everything for Sakura and Aoi’s happiness, yet… slowly, but surely, everything he valued was taken away from him. It was bound to happen, but it’s like Kayneth and Lancer’s situation from earlier.
    Lancer was accused of seducing Kayneth’s fiancee, which is like repeating the exact same thing Lancer was trying to change about his past. And then, when he felt like all he had left was the taste of a chivalrous battle, he couldn’t even finish that. The despair led him to curse the grail like he did.
    And now, Kariya, whose only wish was to get revenge on Tokiomi and do something good for the two people he loved most in the world, is put into a situation where he has unintentionally “stolen” life force from Sakura and also “stolen” the life of his love’s husband, right in front of her eyes–at least, she saw it that way. So he felt guilty about Sakura and even though he wasn’t guilty of killing Tokiomi, Aoi blamed him for it… and that confusion and madness drove him to be “self-destructive,” which is common in Urobuchi tales about despair. If you have something you value and you’ve already lost enough of it that it seems pointless to keep the rest, why have that unstable incompleteness? Why not just get rid of it and not have to think about it ever again? It’s not exactly rational, but the stream of logic provides a temporary solace… until you realize what you’ve actually done.

    God, I’m not sure I’ll ever like Kotomine, even if I finish the Heaven’s Feel route, where I hear he’s much more tolerable…

    • meow says:

      You won’t exactly like him. He’ll just be overshadowed by a greater threat and won’t be in control the way he is here or in FSN.

      Well..one thing about this episode, it does seem to show that while Kotomine responded to Gil’s teasing with wicked words, he still seemed bored/disinterested. All the things he’s been trying all his life, including branching into all the different arms of Church service is out of the expectation of finding something that excites him and cures his boredom/lack of passion but while he seemed to be saying one thing to Archer, he seemed to look disappointed, as if the result of the confrontation between Kariya and Aoi didn’t excite him at all. He just said those things to keep Archer pleased and cooperative. Just my impression though. Hard to read those dead eyes of his. Maybe he was thinking about Zouken.

      • Rachnid says:

        I think he is just unfamiliar with anything related to feelings, his comment about how the wine tasted sold me the idea that he genuinely likes the whole sadist business.

      • Moriae says:

        From the novels:

        But if it was a development that betrayed none of his expectations – even if there were supposed to be no surprises – when he watched over it to the end, he felt a peculiar excitement.

        If it was to be named, it might be called a sense of “freshness”.

        The tragic scene just now was not a fantasy performed by actors. It was true that Kirei had guided the scene. But baring their innermost feelings, his fellow humans clashed against one another – the radiance of souls scattering the sparks was, without a doubt, authentic. While struggling to decide on an answer to Gilgamesh’s question, Kirei tasted the fragrance of the wine in his mouth again. Indeed, if it was surprise he was looking for, he was better off looking into this wine.

        “…… Why, I drank this before, and yet…… I did not notice how profound the taste of this wine was.”

        The King of Heroes smiled at Kirei who gazed at his wine glass, straight-faced.

        “The taste of a wine is disguised in unexpected forms depending on the side dish served alongside it. Looks like you have begun to understand the meaning of the phrase, ‘broaden one’s view’.”

        “……”

        Not knowing the best way to reply to the rapturous Gilgamesh, Kirei put down his empty glass and stood up. He thought about the things he was supposed to attend to later and felt that he could not afford to keep relaxing. Aoi, lying on the chapel floor, would undoubtedly require treatment. And he also had to retrieve the fleeing Kariya for his next course of action.

        Nevertheless, before leaving the room, Kirei once again glanced at the empty glass. He noticed that he felt reluctant to part with the wine, which he had finally finished.

        Earnestly, he thought – if I can taste such flavor from this wine, I would love to drink it again.

        • hoiut says:

          Good God, this is pretty dark stuff. It’s not just the anime’s fault, I realize.

          Hm.

          • Oroboros says:

            Indeed. I read the first volume and was horribly disappointed at the crass violation of the “show, not tell” rule, as well as the clumsy translation. (from the type-moon wiki website)

            This excerpt comes off much better, and more literary than straight-forward, expository. Different translation, perhaps?

  9. Tanz says:

    The tragic scene was not over the top but it wasn’t Fate/Zero’s style. I expected it to be less subtle on it. Its emotional impact is more on dialogue and quiet action like how Kiritsugu’s flashback went. I guess they went for a different style. Nothing wrong with trying but I hope they realized it didn’t fit as well.

  10. Dr. Pest says:

    Really? I found this one of the best episodes so far. The actions scenes seemed great to me and I found everything rather thrilling and emotional. I somehow find Kariya’s fate way more tragic than the one of Kiritsugu so far because of those things that happen. What I also really liked was this intriguing presence Kotomine emitted during the second half of this episode. His character developement makes him one of the most interesting characters of the Fate universe I think.

  11. Moekou says:

    The thing with Rider is that, while lots of people jumped on the “Rider is right and Saber is wrong” bandwagon due to his earlier impressive showing, the actual intention is to portray all of the kings as flawed in their vision.

    In Rider’s case, his greatest flaw is that he lets his visions of glory blind him to logic. In the past he pursued a vision for Oceanus without supporting evidence, although he was also able to turn it into a strength last episode by accepting that it was a poor decision. Here, he is once again letting his vision of his glorious climatic showdown with Gilgamesh blind him to the obvious fact that he is in mortal danger and was very likely to lose and die if he did not go all out. In fact, his decision to charge with his chariot was also part of his desire to prove his way despite self-calculated 50% odds, as he believed that by literally trampling over Excalibur (representing Saber’s ideals) with his chariot, he can make a point. Even now he’s still thinking about how great it’d be if Saber becomes his soldier when it should be evident such a line of thinking is a pointless waste of time. In a way, he is just as over-idealistic as Saber. Perhaps even more so, as at least she isn’t trying to make friends in the battlefield.

    All this makes Rider a more complex and likable character to me.

    • Moriae says:

      But Saber is wrong. That’s the entire premise of the Fate arc in FSN. This isn’t about her way of kingship. It’s about her wish and regrets.

      Rider was right in this. He was derailed because he assumed wrongly what was the root of her problems. But he could never sit down and talk things with her again (and he didn’t have Shirou’s advantage of sharing dreams. We know that without them, he never understands her anyway). Furthermore, Rider in the novels, never said a way of kingship was wrong. It was the opposite. When they met he acknowledged their differences while she remained narrow-minded. The problem with Saber is that she was a joyless person who made him sad so he saw her title as a burden for her. He wanted to save her.

  12. Mormegil says:

    “Also, an observation that I made before this all happened: in the first season, Rider really was the stand-out character: his charisma and monologues were wonderful and it brought a lot of spark to the series. In the second season… this just doesn’t apply at all. He has been weakened and beaten pretty often, with in this episode him losing his chariot, in favor of characters as Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu.”

    I think it has to do with the fact that Rider’s larger-than-life attitude is completely overshadowed by all the tragic and dark events taking place. There was a lot of build-up in the first 13 episodes of the series, so there was even time for Rider and Waver hijinks. Now, not so much… He truly is a likable fellow, though.

    The story’s in full swing, the ending is rushing toward us, and there’s pretty much nothing but despair ahead.

  13. kero says:

    I enjoyed the bike scene, definitely worth waiting for a higher quality
    dl

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CHANGE USERNAME
Lenlo
I mean, decent warrants about a 5-6. That, in theory, should be an "Average" show.
Anonymous1055365
It's a decent show. You're being overly critical.
SuperMario
In the Out of Competition slot (you think that I'm finished?), 2 films in particular that catch my interest are the Korean Lost in the Moonlight which looks like a fun and lightheart adventure, and the Norway-Poland co-production adult-oriented The Man who Knew 75 Languagues about the star-crossed love between the Queen of Romania and a titular man, I guess
SuperMario
Rounding up the Main Competition are Animal Crackers, a 3G American family film which I don't have good feeling about; Big Fish and Begonia - a Chinese indie film that divided the critics, but gathered skyhigh commercial success in its mainland China; and finally Zombillenium which sounds like an enjoyable European children film
SuperMario
From other countries, most notable films are the Loving Vincent - the first feature length hand painting; the Chinese black comedy Have a Nice Day that premiered in Berlin earlier this year; Ethel and Ernest which already gained a strong reviews from the UK; Tehran Taboo- a German production about the lives of 3 women in Iranian community, which sound exactly like my kinda of film.
SuperMario
Alright, I'm here to bring you news about the selection of this coming Annecy AKA one of the best animation festival out there. 3 of anime features: A Slient Voice, In the Corner of the World and Masaaki Yuasa's Lu over the Wall will compete for the main competition.
SuperMario
I'm a fan of thought-provoking anime (see Lain, Boogiepop Phantom) but I need to care about the story and characters first before I make an effort to dig deeper to the theme. Sagrada Reset failed on that fronts.
SuperMario
It's not really about being smart/dumb here. As a creator, they already have an advantage to know how the story and plot will play out. I don't mind this advantage because otherwise the plot will become a hot mess. But don't use that advantage as a way to widen the gap between them and the audience.
AidanAK47
Ugh...Ray Gigant was pretty much mediocre up until this point but now it;s utterly asinine. Whoever decided on this endgame needs to be fired. When you are ready to end a game, no player want a ten floor dungion with a boss on each floor coupled with a goddamn boss rush halfway. Just...fuck.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It must be worse than oremo.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I saw some pages of the eromanga sensei manga and my reaction was that I was sad that it actually existed and stated "why would you even" after looking at it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As an anime example, sekaisuru kado has lots of dialogue but it seems like it could actually be engaging.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So basically no I don't think we're dumb for not liking sagrada reset, given that myself and Mario are capable of watching genuinely smart wordy things and getting them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I can imagine watching Sagrada reset and thinking I'd rather be watching a Bergman film instead , something also with lots of dialogue and themes but actually engaging/clever and NOT pretentious or obnoxious about it.
Anonymous1054942
is it possible that you are all just dumb?
Anonymous1054269
@Mario: I like how you described it as giving a middle finger to the viewers. It's so true. Like, it tries to be intelligent and make the viewer feel stupid, but it just comes off as obnoxious/pretentious.
Lenlo
CGI remains the worst part of it, but we are getting more and more 2D art which I actually enjoy the style of
Lenlo
Its an improvement. The art is better, and maybe its because I prefer this arc, but the pacing is better as well. I gave last season a 3, but this one is more deserving of a 4 and if they can nail certain scenes coming up I may bump it to a 5.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: How's Berserk doing so far? Haven't picked up last week and this week's episodes.
Lenlo
Ground*. I hate it when I fat finger something.
Lenlo
Thats always the worst, when a story starts off promising and then someone runs it into the grouhnd
AidanAK47
@Mario, so it's still at it. To me it's like someone was given an interesting story and made it his mission to ruin it as much as possible.
SuperMario
@Aidan: it's still the same crap. I have a feeling that Sagrada Reset gives a middle finger to us viewers. The plot with development and characters that we have no way to figure out ourselves. The characters who change motive and even personality after each timeline. The main lead girl who act like a robot. I gave this show too many chance so I won't bother to spend more time watching it.
Anonymous1052767
Eromanga sensei
AidanAK47
@Mario, Oh ho, what was the dealbreaker? Just that it didn't change or did something really stupid happen?
SuperMario
Sagrada Reset (long sigh) (scratching my head) (eyes rolling). Dropped
AidanAK47
Hey you.
Konstantinos
Yeah, at this point, this season looks good.
SuperMario
Quite happy with ID-0 and Zero in particular. Zero charms me to no end that I'm still debating whether I should blog it. The trio Re:Creators, Kado, Atom still doing pretty well and the sequels MHA and Bahamut are enjoyable as expected. We have a wide range of anime offerings this season.
SuperMario
Sagrada Reset & SukaSuka I will give it another episode, at least until this current arcs over. They both have potential but Sagrada Reset tries so hard to sound smart, and SukaSuka still falls into its LN tropes which bugged the show down.
SuperMario
*no real urge
SuperMario
I've finally catch up with all other series I wanna follow this season. Alice & Zorouku will be off my list for now, Zorouko is a great character but everything else falls flat so far. I have real urge to continue Attack on Titan and Berserk so I'll wait until they're finished.
Vonter
I watched some episodes of KonoSuba yesterday, reminds me of Those Who Hunt Elves. And I suppose it might be an easy recommendation because it mainly comes down to; do you find it funny? or fun? If not, skip.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While yes its true of watching those slice of life shows week by week is better, I felt that when reading the manga for Aria it was easier to marathon by reading it rather than watching.
SuperMario
Flying witch have the same atmosphere, but it's a purely slice of life anime. I love Aria too and I agree that watching it 1 episode a time is the best way to enjoy it. Can't think of other serious anime that have those calming elements for now
Anonymous1042537
Yeah, I noticed they all have pretty different structures from one another (ACCA's political, Mushishi's naturalistic, Monster is a thriller, Rakugo's about a specific art form, 3-gatsu is ostensibly about Shogi, etc.) but I found that I found some similar calming elements in them (to different degrees of course).
Anonymous1042537
Thanks, I'll definitely check Aria out!
AidanAK47
One of the hardest shows to marathon besides Bakemonogatari. Though Bakomono gave me a headache after a few episodes whereas Aria just had me so mellow that I could drift into sleep at any second.
AidanAK47
Don't know if you could call it a sub genre as the examples you listed are all really different from each other.
Though in the vein of calming shows I think you can add the Aria series to the list. That show is so relaxing that you find yourself nodding off to it. Not out of boredom but it just has that effect on you.
Anonymous1042537
Do you guys know if there's a specific subgenre like this, or am I making it up? And are there other anime with that kind of feel. Not exactly slice of life, but in the general vicinity of it.
Anonymous1042537
The Great Passage was another great example. It delved into the seemingly boring subject matter of dictionary-making, but it was a surprisingly charming show. 3-Gatsu no Lion also looks promising, I enjoyed a lot of the first season (but wasn't a fan of the forced comedy sometimes).
Anonymous1042537
Like the episode where Tenma first meets Grimmer on the train to Prague and they have a picnic on the mountain was so dang good. I really need to rewatch that.
Anonymous1042537
There are some elements of that style in other shows too, but to a lesser extent. Like some parts of Rakguo (mainly season 1) was very soothing. Naoki Urasawa's Monster had some fantastic, almost melancholic episodes like this.
Anonymous1042537
It seems that most anime w/ that kind of style usually also have another genre mixed in. Mushishi was also very naturalistic, ACCA had a political underpinning.
Anonymous1042537
It's sort of in the vein of a "Mushishi" style show. I suspect it's an emerging subgenre of slice of life that's meant to be very calming, relaxing, atmospheric which I really am digging.
Anonymous1042537
I really hope there are more shows like it; not that it was perfect, but it was certainly unique and hit a lot more than it missed. I really like those cool, quiet shows you can enjoy with a nice cup of tea before you go to sleep.
Anonymous1042537
Ironically though, I would say that the first half of ACCA (up until the big flashback) is better enjoyed week by week, or at least that's what I found.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It felt good marathoning a show again rather than waiting week by week and next weekend I'll probably marathon house of five leaves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Forgot to mention...there were certainly a share of moments in Acca that feel fanservish to the female audience =P
SuperMario
@Aidan: haven't noticed that. Will fix it soon.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Only problem I can see is that the posts have no spaces in between paragraphs.
SuperMario
... to be near my laptop for an entire week. First time that I had to blog entirely through my phone. Seemed to work out fine but I had to borrow screenshots from other source (I thank you that other source) ^^
SuperMario
*unless* rather than *as long as*. This has been a crazy week for me as I didn't have a chance
SuperMario
@anon1039488: I find the idea of limiting excess to exclusively stream an aime is a dumb idea; because as long as people have a chance to expose to the anime they won't really care to check it out. So I detest owning the legal streaming account, but I always pay back by buying DVDs/Blurays that I liked
SuperMario
I watched House of Five Leaves by the same mangaka and I really enjoyed it. Nataume Ono is a pretty excelent storyteller (a bit mixed on her art-style thou)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I agree that the first dew episodes of ACCA were not that engaging but the endingg neatly tied up all loose ends. I still feel Grossular's act is kind of messy (why was he under such control from Lilium? He's not that kind to be in such passive role to be honest) but other than those I don't have any real complaints.
Anonymous1039488
Competition is good, but it makes it cost so much to legally watch everything. That's why a lot of people pirate I feel.
Anonymous1039488
You have Crunchryoll and Funi, fine. Then there's Daisuki which is kinda random. Then Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu all have some random anime, though it seems that mainly Amazon has current series
Anonymous1039488
I don't have Amazon Strike, which is like their new venture into anime I guess. There's too many streaming services to keep up with tbh
Kaiser-Eoghan
To be honest I'm pretty crap when it comes to supporting things, I don't pay for almost all the things I watch/read/play, I don't have a crunchy or amazon account, I still pirate legal streams.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Is it a case that your country is blocked? Maybe go for a vpn? If you absolutely have to you could pirate the show...
Anonymous1039488
I wanna watch Re:Creators but don't have Amazon... :( alas
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel like I need to wait and see approach with sekaisuru Kado...this prologue phase is...long...
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wish it had been 24 episodes long though to better organize itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Favourite characters were Jean, Groslur and Nino.
Can’t say I cared for the goofy interactions between Jean’s workfriends though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet for whatever I could say about the pacing, when the twists happen they creep up on you and the show mostly lands every one of them, even if I’m not exactly pleased that sometimes the series does the “I pulled it out of the hat/ass” approach.
I’m relatively indifferent on the art/animation.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did feel it picks up, improves by the mid-mark and to an extent the wait is worth it and things do come together even if I wasn’t always totally confidant with how it was getting there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Having the protagonist go from district to district to flesh out the settings a decent enough idea and the main characters a fairly chill, cool guy.
Though the dialogue does create suspicion, intrigue, it does also plod/pad in equal measure at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Finally decided to sit down and watch Acca.
This show had its lovers/haters I’m sure, having watched it my feelings are mixed.
It is a slight breath of fresh air I’ll give it that and makes me want to maybe re-assess of adaptations of the author’s work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The only assayas film I've encountered so far that I disliked was Irma Vep, even though the lead actress was great, the surrounding performances, especially by Jean-Pierre-Lenaud were awful. Sils Maria I was initially evasive of because I'd heard that the relationship between Binoche and Stewarts characters was under-unexplored.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Weersathakul's films are something else entirely...Otherworldly yet still cinematic. I feel a bit underwhelmed after watching the Unknown girl. The identity of the culprit, for example, feel forced for me that take me out our their naturalistic style. I'mmin between Clouds of sils maria too, know it's a good movie but it feels pretentous at times, like the movie Youth
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also got round to watching Unknown girl by Dardenne, it carries enough moments of their brilliance but I felt they didn’t have as much mastery over their usual pacing style this time round, for the first time it felt like a thriller that played out like a drama, rather than a drama that has a pseudo thriller feel to it.
Going to watch Clouds of sils Maria next.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The entire second half, which I’d have watched an entire film about is very atmospheric and dreamy/esoteric nearing just exactly the kind of thing I like.
The way he uses/shoots Thailands geography along with his cinematography is impressive, particularly in that second half.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: He shoots something simple like a chopping scene in a strangely engaging way, the scene with the old woman going into the cave is also very impressively shot and that one driving scenes with that pop song in the background has an airy feel to it.
In some ways I agree that there’s a bit of sensuality to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It’s the kind of film that feeling tired/relaxed when watching it isn’t a condemnation of it(although a share of moments in the first half could be patience testing), it’s the sort of film where you aren’t really aware of anything outside of watching the film when you watch it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally looked into a Weersathakul film, Tropical Malady. I don’t even know how to give a star rating for this film.
SuperMario
I'm still on the fence with Alice & Zouroku. Like the title suggests, the warm chemistry between those two are its strongest point, but those moments are far and few in between as the story progresses and I don't care one bit about the Red Queen storyline. I might drop this one if the story doesn't improve
SuperMario
@Lenlo: 3 episodes anf Berserk still hasn't grabbed me as much. Yep facial expressions are really off-putting
Lenlo
Man... the facial expression in Berserk for the 3D models are, ever so slowly, killing me.
AidanAK47
Alright. Tommarrow I will get out all those posts I am late on seeing as the impressions are all finished.
AidanAK47
SukaSuka still has me mixed. On one hand there really are some great ideas and some well executed moments. But some of the dialogue is a bit typical of a light novel and the fanservice is really shameless. The massage at the end of the episode was something the show could really do without.
Konstantinos Travlos
I am in love with RE:Creators. I have no idea if they will keep it as good, but these two first episodes did all the right things.
AidanAK47
Alright, Easter made me lazy so it's time to play catch up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Puran: Or even Georgiou Nikolaidis while I'm at it, morning patrol is a great mood piece. Not familiar with the other guy.
Puran
@Kaiser: No Grammatikos recommendation? :)
SuperMario
I still enjoy Zero pretty much. I like the contrast between the beastfallen and Zero. The hilarious lines sound more like accidental to me, not the best product but I enjoy the ride so far
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree with everything you said. Apparently Haneke put Flashmob on hold because the main actress was conflicting in her schedule, so he decided to do Happy End instead
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Does the old man represent gritty anime of old? I don't know honestly I'm just throwing it out there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: In case you hadn't heard, Haneke dropped the Flashmob movie and is now doing one about the refugee crisis.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To whoever will be playing Godard in that biopic, I'd wonder if they could capture how incredibly douchey he sounds irl lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: There is such a big divide between 50s/60s Bresson and 70s/80s Bresson.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lathimos and Avaranas remind me in an odd way of Tarr in that they're the only Greek filmakers people seem to talk about , Check out Koundorous and Theodorous Angelopolous' works if you can.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Meh, I don't like that sort of overly on the nose social commentary some American films and tv shows do in recent years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Godards extremely hit or miss with me. Hazanavicius did the artist I think, but I'd sooner recommend Biancnieves as a stronger example of a modern take on silent cinema or maybe a Guy Maddin film.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Lotznitza directed a gentle creature not Zvyagintsev, though the latter is a fantastic director, Leviathan's ending hit me very very hard, its gut punching and I appreciated that the return never went into too much detail regarding the father.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: off topic, I didn't realize Get Out having such buzz reception. It's coming here next week so I will get to watch it
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Michel Hazanavicius makes a biopic about Jean-Luc Godard and Anne Wiazemsky (the actress in Au Hasard Balthazard), which I think will be interesting. I considered The Lobster one of the best film out of that year so I anticipate his next movie a hell lot. Yep, I watched few movies from Andrey Zvyagintsev and he certainly is in my radar. Bleak, social commentary, technical impressive
AidanAK47
Oh, it's confirmed that was what was actually said in Japanese. Well...that's rather cringe worthy.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Can't say I am too fond of it myself. Though that arrow to the knee reference definitely sounds like something the translator added in.
Anonymous1026829
Holy shit Zero is hilarious. "I used to be a mercenary like you once. But then I took an arrow to the knee." "My magic is super weak so I need a powerful offering. Can you loan me your head please?" The comedy is so pointed and understated.
Vonter
I do like how contrasting Zelda is to Nier in the sense that. Zelda cares more about how the game plays and making the player have fun constantly but doesn't care about telling something. Nier Automata doesn't care what it throws to the player but cares a lot about it tells the things that happen to player.
Vonter
I think this is a hard game to score. Mainly because IMO the combat has wear out a bit do to the repetition and the sidequests have been a mixed bag with some being relevant to the plot or themes and some being just fodder to level up. On the other hand the game has a lot of implications, subtext and symbolism that so far has been enriching to reflect upon.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, Actually wrote up 4/5s of a review on Nier Automata but with the new season I haven't had time to finish writing the review. Though my thoughts on it are similar to yours.
Vonter
Nier Automata has a 10+ hour prologue. So far the game feels like it's more interested in delivering strong emotions than a compelling narrative, not that script is poor but seems disjointed in a way, circling around the themes of existentialism, purpose and truth without overexpositing about these things. It also some moments remind me of Fragile Dreams. Like the despair.
AidanAK47
The old man is the one I can't pin down. Been thinking he might represent the kind of anime that's critically lauded but sadly unpopular. Makes sense as he's one of the few on the opening that doesn't stand near ads for his anime. Or else he's a live action drama representative.
AidanAK47
Been wondering about the Re:Creators characters. We got the obvious representatives from Magical girl, Mecha, Light novel and video game. The knight girl looks like clear homage to Saber from Fate so a Visual novel representive? The psycho girl looks to be a chunni anime representative. And the guy who appeared at the end of ep 2 is clearly Shounen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The Ramsay one sticks out as the most interesting to me as does the lathimos one. I'm curious about that Russian one about the woman looking for her imprisoned husband as I'd like to watch more contempory Russian films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: If you can get passed the accents Ramsay did a strong piece of social realism in the 90s called Ratcatcher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I think the only Baumbach film I've seen is Frances Ha and I liked the new wavey feel it had. With The lobster and re-watching dogtooth I was able to get into Lathimos' pitch black humour alot more. I've never actually seen a hong-sang so film.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I still really enjoy it but I do get what you mean. Looking at the series overall so far it does feel like there was lost potential.
Amagi
I honestly still don't know what to think of LWA. I wasn't a fan of the formularic first half but the second half doesn't really catch me either. I loved the first OVA though.
AidanAK47
Well I will be damned. That G Koh commenter managed to predict the inclusion of Yggdrasil in Little Witch Academia. Nicely done.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: sadly i won't make it this year. I wanna try the Toronto International Film Fest next time whenever I have a chance
SuperMario
@Kaiser:you heard about this year's Cannes selection?Overall it's solid, not many that scream "masterpiece" for me.Overall I'm exciting for Hong Sang Soo's new movies (he has 2 movies screening at Cannes and 1 already aired at Berlin.What the hell),and The Killing of the Scared Deer(Yorgos Lnthimos), You were never really here (Lynne Ramsay),Okja(Bong Joon Ho) and Meyerowitz Stories(Noah Baubach)
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm...just found out That Blame! 2017 is being done by a the Ajin director, not sure how I felt about that.
AidanAK47
Think this is the best time to end the series too as the difficultly was getting to be a bit too cheap.
AidanAK47
Lore wise it's pretty disappointing. Ending the game with an enemy that doesn't really have that much relevance. But Gameplay wise it was excellent. The final area was just beautiful.
Lenlo
Ringed City was a great piece of DLC and a good way to end the series imo.
AidanAK47
Dark souls sure can give you workout. Finally got around to finishing the ringed city DLC. Funny thing is that people were raving about how hard Midir was when I didn't have that much trouble with him. Gaol gave me some trouble but I managed it. Hardest was the demon prince and god I hate multi stage boss fights. Such a goddamn pain.
SuperMario
Atom still waiting for suitable subs. I swear to God, for a completist like myself the wait is unbearable, especially it should've been available already
HelghastKillzone
Yes it is.
Anonymous1020539
I mean...
Anonymous1020539
Re:producers is really great
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I can see myself chancing more of it, I kind of caught into its rhythm a bit.
AidanAK47
Novels are actually really short. About 90 pages long per volume. They really could cover this in a single cour.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, SukaSuka? From what I could tell it covered the first two chapters of the light novel. Each novel has 5 chapters. Though the first and last chapter are more of a prologue and epilogue respectively.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Actually if shuumatsu's first episode is going faster than the novel, roughly how much so? Its still obviously a slow burn in animated format but how much was covered in episode 1?
AidanAK47
Could have done without the huge infodump but otherwise still loving Re:Creators. Seeing a magical girl shocked over her own level of destructive power was great.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, I liked the use of music early on in shuumatsu and theres a good mood set up early on along with a good opening scene but the later parts of the episode except maybe for the after credits bit get a shrug from me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Kado has made its hook, now it needs not to keep holding its cards and get going.
SuperMario
hmmm, don't know what to think about Kado ep2. Still good but I expected more
SuperMario
But really my mentality is that this site comes first. Getting more traffic and improve the site are my top priorities, then "what I wanna do for myself" comes later
SuperMario
@Travlos: guess you won't have to read me this season :). Haven't checked out the last episode of Kado yet but based from the first 2 episodes I think you'd enjoy that show.
Don’t worry. It’s something Aidan and me both agree on. We pretty much write for ourselves, otherwise we couldn’t have stayed this long. I get a chance to go off track once in a while to write something I wanna write.
Konstantinos Travlos
@SuperMario. I am definitely watching Shingeki no Koyjin 2, Shingeki no Bahamut 2, Re:Creators, Little Witch Academia, and probably Kado and Zero Kara. I may also do Zipang this season.
On the reaction reaction. What you say is ok. But remember, a hobby is something you do for yourself. There is a limit to how much you should care about the views of others. :)
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Or if I can use a quote from Chang from Black lagoon : "A fragranced shit will forever still retain the smell of shit"
Lenlo
As most likely the biggest Berserk fan in this chatbox, its better but that doesnt make it good. Spraying fabreeze on crap doesnt make it any more appealing. Yet I will watch it anyways.
Anonymous1018231
You don't even know
Anonymous1018231
Lies Aidan it is soooo much better
Anonymous1017807
Tbh I'm enjoying Alice to Zouroku so much simply because I identify with the old guy's no-nonsense attitude. It's fun to see the annoying loli get put in her place. X.D
AidanAK47
Anyway Bam is supposed to be covering it. Seeing as he covered the first season.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I watched the first episode of the second season. Better? Yes, but only slightly.. It has all the same problems as the first season.
Anonymous1017501
and nobody's covering it lol
Anonymous1017501
Like dramatically
Anonymous1017501
It really is much better
Anonymous1017501
You know guys its not too late to start watching Berserk Season 2...
AidanAK47
I just get annoyed when interaction is like "HUMAN, YOUR EMOTION RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT. I THEORIZE THIS IS THE REASON YOUR EMOTIONAL RESPONSE IS DIFFERENT."
Their is a definite layer of pretentiousness in how it's written, seeing how nobody gets annoyed when every character tries to psychological profile them.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I have heard word that these two episodes were a prologue story and the real story is going to kick into gear next episode. But if the characters keep talking like this then it's not going to matter what happens. It will just be terrible.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Jojo part 5 died for this. That makes it all the sadder. Plus it's two cour so this show is gonna be on for half a year.
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