Posted by psgels on 27 May 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

The second half of this episode took some huge risks. This series has been very composed in terms of acting; with some exceptions, the acting in this series was subdued and even during the over the top parts, the characters knew exactly how to act with just enough restraint whilst still giving off great performances. This episode drops that and descends into overblown melodrama. Not just to show how a character feels, but also vital to the story.

These are the moments when a character completely loses it. They’re not meant to be pretty, they just are about characters completely breaking down and looking very ugly in the process. This is incredibly hard to act right because it’s just all too easy to scream at the top of your lungs and do the most outrageous thing out there. Another key to this is willing suspension disbelief: as a viewer we really need to get the idea that these characters have broken down. Which is why I’m a bit puzzled that the creators chose to do this with the master who has gotten the least amount of airtime to get fleshed out so far. To be honest, that breakdown scene… it didn’t really hit me and looked more silly due to how little we actually know of these two people. It also felt like there was just too little build-up and aftermath for it. Tohsaka killed the woman, walked away and immediately we switch to Archer and Kirei sitting back and having some wine celebrating. It… doesn’t flow well.

Also, an observation that I made before this all happened: in the first season, Rider really was the stand-out character: his charisma and monologues were wonderful and it brought a lot of spark to the series. In the second season… this just doesn’t apply at all. He has been weakened and beaten pretty often, with in this episode him losing his chariot, in favor of characters as Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu. This can be quite interesting build-up if the final episodes know how to handle it.
Rating: * (Good)

38 Responses

  1. Rachnid says:

    I believe his name is Matou Kariya. Anyway, that scene didn’t hit me as well. But the part where he place his head closely beside her instead of over her, which strangling scenes usually look like, is a nice touch.

    On a side note, Kirei’s voice has been bugging me since the first episode, I was confused for a long time trying to figure out who’s voice his belonged to while they were walking in circles. But hearing him being called Father this episode, it finally fit.

  2. JCD says:

    “Tohsaka killed the woman” – probably meant Kariya there.

    Alexander annoyed me alot as well in this episode. Charges head-on on an enemy aimlessy? How many countries did he conquer by that?

  3. yokushi says:

    Kariya was fleshed enough and he was one of the most popular Masters, it’s typical Urobuchi Gen tragedy here.

    And Rider is the same old Rider, is just that things are pretty hard and he’s being affected too. He didn’t charged head-on on an enemy aimlessy, it was a 50-50 situation and the only way he had to win Saber, so he tried. At the end, he was worried about Waver so he jumped.

    • wicked says:

      well, he was also holding back, saving his Ionioi Hetairoi for another, while Saber used her strongest phantasm Excalibur. Waver is really an inadequate magician for a servant like Rider, and he realized this last episode I believe.

      • Moriae says:

        This is why Saber won without struggle:

        a) He didn’t want to kill her, only best her. Saber, on the other hand, always aims to kill. She’s a lot more ruthless than he is.
        b) His chariot wasn’t in optimal condition. It’s in the previous episode. Clearler in the novel, that it can only fly but not really be used as full power because of prana depletion (he refuses to take from Waver and uses his own sources or the leylines. It’s Saber’s issue with Shirou in FSN, only hers isn’t willing).
        c) And yes, he ditched a chance of victory to rescue Waver (not very clear in this episode).

  4. wicked says:

    Kariya doesnt have much of a purpose in the whole Grail War, pretty much every single appearance he gets, he’s been obsessed with hating Tokiomi and and saving Sakura, and all of it stems from his unrequited love for Tokiomi’s wife which I think was established during his first appearance on the show. Literally every single one of his appearances so far has been about building up to that moment

  5. AidanAK47 says:

    I am surprised you didn’t comment on the motorcycle scene. Cause I got to say that was the best combination of CG and animation I have ever seen. It was flawless.

    On the Kariya scene, I am mixed on it. Though the problems I have with it are the exaggerated facial expressions which looked more comical than expressive and the way they made it seem that Kariya did it intentionally where as in the Light novel he did it in a fit of madness because he was pretty much mentally broken at that point. They should have shown him strained while talking to Kirei instead of talking calmly.

    Though maybe extra scenes from the Blurays would fix this.

  6. Gustavo says:

    Ryder was victorious. He evaded her trumph card without using his. If he really wanted, he could have beaten her, since she shouldnt be able to use Excalibur again so soon. But he was aware of Archer, so he restrained himself. Dont go after one prey wish so much tirst… Risk only this much, and if dont work, dont push. Ryder really is a great caracter.

    • ChocoBar says:

      Wow..talk about a server case of denial

      • Gustavo says:

        So tell me what would have happened if he did use his noble fantasm after Saber’s attack. Who do you think would win? He just didnt want to.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Gustavo, Rider lost one of his greatest assets in a gamble that gained him nothing and now only has a trump card which can only be used once or twice more. Excalibur can recharge but that chariot ain’t coming back.

          A lost battle is a lost battle. Accept it.

  7. meow says:

    Hm….”suspension of disbelief”. Definitely felt this in many ways after watching this episode.

    Saber should have been tracking Irisviel. Not Rider specifically. Plus even though Berserker was disguised, I can’t believe that includes his presence. I’m a bit disappointed that Saber wound up tracking the wrong target.

    I’m also annoyed that Rider used his Chariot on Saber instead of going in for close-range combat. He said he had a lesson to teach Saber. That should have meant communication, the crossing of swords at close range. An epic duel that could have eventually culminated in a chariot charge. This series could use a glorious moment amidst all this dark tragedy. Instead there’s just this quick senseless charge that has no chance of being successful. No feints. No tactics. Geez, Rider’s actually seen this move in action. He should have been better prepared. And after Saber rather predictably wins, she just turns and leaves without another word. What about asking what happened to Irisviel, at the very least? Why’d she waste all that mana, including setting off her Noble Phantasm when she had a more important task at hand?

    I’m incredibly disappointed in Kariya and even Aoi losing their cools that way. Especially Aoi’s accusation at Kariya for taking Sakura from her makes no sense to me. Way before the war started, Kariya had already demanded to know from Aoi why Sakura had been handed over to Zouken. She should have known that Kariya had left the Matous and had nothing to do with it. Unless she was blaming Kariya leaving the Matous as the reason Sakura wound up in Matou hands, which is even more pathetic. And why didn’t Aoi notice that Tokiomi had been dead for awhile? Why didn’t any of them question this whole situation? Especially Kariya. Does he ever suspect Kirei’s involvement? I would have expected him to have just folded and cried. Or run away. Why attack Aoi? This is one of the most disgusting scenes I’ve seen yet. What detail there was in the scene of Kariya strangling Aoi. What a dark, evil story. This is why I refused to watch Kara no Kyoukai. I think I’m going to be very cautious of touching anything Type-Moon or Nitroplus come out with ever again. =.=

    Sigh…sorry for the rant. I’m asking myself wtf I’m doing watching this crap. I hate this kind of thing.

    • Gustavo says:

      Well, aboute Kariya: Aoi saw her dead husband and Kariya at the crime scene. She felt hatred and wanted to hurt Kariya somehow. Then, its obvious that she would start saying things to that intent, even if she knew they werent true. She just wanted to hurt him. My ex-girlfriend did it many times. Women just are like that.

      About Saber and Rider: Rider is a conqueror. As he himself explained, if he did win against Saber using her most powerfull attack, she would be conquered and would even be willing to join his army. He’s a conqueror! And Saber knew he would attack after she did what she did. There’s no excuses for attacking someone like that. “Oh, I’m sorry for trying to kill you now, Good Sir. See ya!”… This would not work at all. And, above all, she wanted to accept the challenge. And wanted to end it fast. Had she used any other trick, she would have lost the battle really fast. Rider is not to be underestimated. After seeing Rider losing his will to go any further in the battle, she just went away.

      There’s nothing so wrong with the episode. You’re just not looking with the right eyes. :)

      • sato says:

        Gustavo, your contempt for women is uncalled for. Despite what you may have personally experienced, please be aware that both sexes can be cruel.

        meow, I totally agree with your critique of this episode. How easily Saber lost track of Irisviel; the coincidence of the real Rider being in the exact same place, and how even he did not notice the fake Rider; the pointless fight despite Saber realizing Rider is not the one she’s after. The Kariya and Aoi encounter at the church was very frustrating in how eye-rollingly uninspired it was. This is in contrast with Lancer’s tragic demise, which had such elaborate orchestration.
        I’m probably most annoyed with how easily Kirei’s plans succeed, despite how much room for error they have, and how intelligent the other characters supposedly are.

        (I also have to say, Kara no Kyoukai is pretty good. It’s not really like Fate at all. The themes are more internal and touch on loneliness and self-hatred a lot. Though the first few installments are definitely better than the last.)

    • AidanAK47 says:

      Servants can only track other servants. They cannot track masters. If they could then they would know straight away that Irisviel is not Saber’s master and that her true master was hiding in the docks in episode 4.
      Berserker’s Noble Phantasm conceals everything about him. Hence why Waver couldn’t read his status at the docks. It isn’t a stretch to say this conceals his presence as well. Also Saber was focused on finding Rider…not Berserker.

      A Saber’s best skill is close combat. Fighting her with a sword is like fighting a master martial artist with fists. While it isn’t shown well here the reason she left is because she found out she was tricked and asking Rider anything about Irisviel is pointless as he wouldn’t know anything.

      It is not reasonable to expect a woman to act rationally when they just saw a man she trusted with the corpse of her husband. Aoi isn’t a forensic specialist so how could she tell that her husband was dead a while? For the most part she didn’t have any time to. Kariya’s attack is actually pretty reasonable. He is literally being eaten alive, half his body is dead and the woman he loved is screaming at him. He snapped. If anything considering everything he’s been through you should question why he didn’t go insane earlier.
      And this was your excuse to not watch Kara no Kyoukai? Come on, grow some balls. Dark stories are interesting.

      • meow says:

        Berserker’s Noble Phantasm conceals everything about him.

        Yes but he emits something that Saber can track. This isn’t the first time Saber’s run into both Rider and Berserker. Rider in particular, she’s been in close contact with on several occassions. Couldn’t she tell the difference? She should have been following the same entity from the start but got distracted by the Chariot instead. A reasonable mistake I suppose, but frustrating nonetheless considering it’s terrible consequences.

        Servants can only track other servants.

        Yes but they should also be able to sense and differential between magical auras, like bounded fields, etc. Saber displayed an unusual amount of knowledge of magic in season one when she first when to Emiya’s atelier. I would imagine Saber would have been familiar with Irisviel’s strong, unique magic signature.

        If I’m wrong, I apologize. I’m basically disappointed that Saber’s awesome Chevalier and her destroying Rider’s Chariot was the result of an unfortunate coincidence. I was also looking forward to an epic confrontation between Rider and Saber, perhaps a continuation of their war of words during the Dialogue of Kings. Rider had a point to make to Saber but it looks like he never got to make it.

        A Saber’s best skill is close combat.

        Yes but Rider is no slouch either. He may have been at a disadvantage but I daresay Saber would have her work cut out for her. A drawn out duel would have worked, perhaps ending in what we see here. It doesn’t seem like it makes any difference either way since Iris winds up in Kirei’s hands anyway but I think it would have been more epic. Instead, it feels like we got a rushed little skirmish between two parties who had no good reason to be fighting each other that winds up giving the bad guys a terrible advantage.

        To add salt to the wound, Kariya inexplicably winds up murdering Aoi in a reasonable fit of blind rage. What a way to get rid of the loose ends in the cast. I for one never knew Rin was an orphan. I knew she lost her dad but not her mom too. And what a way for her to die. I’m sorry Aidan, but watching a grieving husband and mother getting strangled to death in great detail by someone who supposedly cherished her, no matter how well it fits the story, simply does not entertain me. Especially on top of all the gut wrenching stuff that’s been happening since after Caster got taken down. To each his own I suppose.

        • Moriae says:

          Saber’s stats are better than Rider’s because of the Class and the quality of magus who summoned them. Facing her in close combat is bad.

          The only ones in this war who would be able to defeat her in a close combat are Lancer and Berserker.

        • wicked says:

          Rider was in no condition for a drawn out fight like saber against lancer, and the fact that he’s a rider shows that his talent lies else where(Shirou Archer was the only aberration in the series who had superior talents in fields other than his class designation). He had to rest in spirit form before because maintaining a physical form would use up his prana and he’s reserving it for another fight

          As far as tracking magic users, Servants can sense other servants but it’s not so much a magical radar, more like a magical motion sensor. In fact, in the novel she was visually tracking the Berserker as he jumps up and down, with periods which she cannot see, so when rider showed up again with the chariot and waver, she assumed that rider wanted to fight her full strength. The fact that Irisviel was not with him confused her, but by that time, she was already engaged in battle

          Rider was going to confront Saber anyways, the fight was inevitable

    • Mormegil says:

      “This is one of the most disgusting scenes I’ve seen yet. What detail there was in the scene of Kariya strangling Aoi. What a dark, evil story.”

      Welcome to Gen Urobuchi. No one gets a HAPPY END.

    • Moriae says:

      Aoi was hysterical in grief. So excuse her.

      Kariya’s mind and body deteriorated that he’s not really sane. The novel points out he would have done things differently if his brain was actually functional (he would have figured out Kirei is behind this). The issue with the anime is that they don’t really give credit to his state (which is so grave he’s a lump of dead flesh mobilized by magic) and the voice actor sounds too calm too when he was hysterical and his voice isn’t longer like Kariya’s.

      He didn’t attack Aoi in his mind. He couldn’t recognize who that woman was and why she was saying those things. He snaps back into reality when he notices it’s Aoi and releases her.

      • Gustavo says:

        It makes sense.

        • Moriae says:

          It always disturbs me a little how the anime makes Kariya look too pretty in his state? He was compared to a victim of a nuclear reactor explosion in how bad he was in the novels. He was nearly done for during that battle in episode 5. Anime did not give credit to how he was covered with his own blood as he staggered out from the sewers and collapsed in agony…

  8. Juno says:

    I think the problems most people are having with this episode had to do mostly with screenplay. I haven’t read all of volumes 3 and 4 of the novel yet, but if it’s anything like how the previous novels changed my perception of the first half of the anime (and the second half, for that matter), I have quite a bit of faith that Urobuchi’s excellent expository description can save scenes like this.

    On that note, I was still pretty jaw-dropped at the murder scene. Kariya did everything for Sakura and Aoi’s happiness, yet… slowly, but surely, everything he valued was taken away from him. It was bound to happen, but it’s like Kayneth and Lancer’s situation from earlier.
    Lancer was accused of seducing Kayneth’s fiancee, which is like repeating the exact same thing Lancer was trying to change about his past. And then, when he felt like all he had left was the taste of a chivalrous battle, he couldn’t even finish that. The despair led him to curse the grail like he did.
    And now, Kariya, whose only wish was to get revenge on Tokiomi and do something good for the two people he loved most in the world, is put into a situation where he has unintentionally “stolen” life force from Sakura and also “stolen” the life of his love’s husband, right in front of her eyes–at least, she saw it that way. So he felt guilty about Sakura and even though he wasn’t guilty of killing Tokiomi, Aoi blamed him for it… and that confusion and madness drove him to be “self-destructive,” which is common in Urobuchi tales about despair. If you have something you value and you’ve already lost enough of it that it seems pointless to keep the rest, why have that unstable incompleteness? Why not just get rid of it and not have to think about it ever again? It’s not exactly rational, but the stream of logic provides a temporary solace… until you realize what you’ve actually done.

    God, I’m not sure I’ll ever like Kotomine, even if I finish the Heaven’s Feel route, where I hear he’s much more tolerable…

    • meow says:

      You won’t exactly like him. He’ll just be overshadowed by a greater threat and won’t be in control the way he is here or in FSN.

      Well..one thing about this episode, it does seem to show that while Kotomine responded to Gil’s teasing with wicked words, he still seemed bored/disinterested. All the things he’s been trying all his life, including branching into all the different arms of Church service is out of the expectation of finding something that excites him and cures his boredom/lack of passion but while he seemed to be saying one thing to Archer, he seemed to look disappointed, as if the result of the confrontation between Kariya and Aoi didn’t excite him at all. He just said those things to keep Archer pleased and cooperative. Just my impression though. Hard to read those dead eyes of his. Maybe he was thinking about Zouken.

      • Rachnid says:

        I think he is just unfamiliar with anything related to feelings, his comment about how the wine tasted sold me the idea that he genuinely likes the whole sadist business.

      • Moriae says:

        From the novels:

        But if it was a development that betrayed none of his expectations – even if there were supposed to be no surprises – when he watched over it to the end, he felt a peculiar excitement.

        If it was to be named, it might be called a sense of “freshness”.

        The tragic scene just now was not a fantasy performed by actors. It was true that Kirei had guided the scene. But baring their innermost feelings, his fellow humans clashed against one another – the radiance of souls scattering the sparks was, without a doubt, authentic. While struggling to decide on an answer to Gilgamesh’s question, Kirei tasted the fragrance of the wine in his mouth again. Indeed, if it was surprise he was looking for, he was better off looking into this wine.

        “…… Why, I drank this before, and yet…… I did not notice how profound the taste of this wine was.”

        The King of Heroes smiled at Kirei who gazed at his wine glass, straight-faced.

        “The taste of a wine is disguised in unexpected forms depending on the side dish served alongside it. Looks like you have begun to understand the meaning of the phrase, ‘broaden one’s view’.”

        “……”

        Not knowing the best way to reply to the rapturous Gilgamesh, Kirei put down his empty glass and stood up. He thought about the things he was supposed to attend to later and felt that he could not afford to keep relaxing. Aoi, lying on the chapel floor, would undoubtedly require treatment. And he also had to retrieve the fleeing Kariya for his next course of action.

        Nevertheless, before leaving the room, Kirei once again glanced at the empty glass. He noticed that he felt reluctant to part with the wine, which he had finally finished.

        Earnestly, he thought – if I can taste such flavor from this wine, I would love to drink it again.

        • hoiut says:

          Good God, this is pretty dark stuff. It’s not just the anime’s fault, I realize.

          Hm.

          • Oroboros says:

            Indeed. I read the first volume and was horribly disappointed at the crass violation of the “show, not tell” rule, as well as the clumsy translation. (from the type-moon wiki website)

            This excerpt comes off much better, and more literary than straight-forward, expository. Different translation, perhaps?

  9. Tanz says:

    The tragic scene was not over the top but it wasn’t Fate/Zero’s style. I expected it to be less subtle on it. Its emotional impact is more on dialogue and quiet action like how Kiritsugu’s flashback went. I guess they went for a different style. Nothing wrong with trying but I hope they realized it didn’t fit as well.

  10. Dr. Pest says:

    Really? I found this one of the best episodes so far. The actions scenes seemed great to me and I found everything rather thrilling and emotional. I somehow find Kariya’s fate way more tragic than the one of Kiritsugu so far because of those things that happen. What I also really liked was this intriguing presence Kotomine emitted during the second half of this episode. His character developement makes him one of the most interesting characters of the Fate universe I think.

  11. Moekou says:

    The thing with Rider is that, while lots of people jumped on the “Rider is right and Saber is wrong” bandwagon due to his earlier impressive showing, the actual intention is to portray all of the kings as flawed in their vision.

    In Rider’s case, his greatest flaw is that he lets his visions of glory blind him to logic. In the past he pursued a vision for Oceanus without supporting evidence, although he was also able to turn it into a strength last episode by accepting that it was a poor decision. Here, he is once again letting his vision of his glorious climatic showdown with Gilgamesh blind him to the obvious fact that he is in mortal danger and was very likely to lose and die if he did not go all out. In fact, his decision to charge with his chariot was also part of his desire to prove his way despite self-calculated 50% odds, as he believed that by literally trampling over Excalibur (representing Saber’s ideals) with his chariot, he can make a point. Even now he’s still thinking about how great it’d be if Saber becomes his soldier when it should be evident such a line of thinking is a pointless waste of time. In a way, he is just as over-idealistic as Saber. Perhaps even more so, as at least she isn’t trying to make friends in the battlefield.

    All this makes Rider a more complex and likable character to me.

    • Moriae says:

      But Saber is wrong. That’s the entire premise of the Fate arc in FSN. This isn’t about her way of kingship. It’s about her wish and regrets.

      Rider was right in this. He was derailed because he assumed wrongly what was the root of her problems. But he could never sit down and talk things with her again (and he didn’t have Shirou’s advantage of sharing dreams. We know that without them, he never understands her anyway). Furthermore, Rider in the novels, never said a way of kingship was wrong. It was the opposite. When they met he acknowledged their differences while she remained narrow-minded. The problem with Saber is that she was a joyless person who made him sad so he saw her title as a burden for her. He wanted to save her.

  12. Mormegil says:

    “Also, an observation that I made before this all happened: in the first season, Rider really was the stand-out character: his charisma and monologues were wonderful and it brought a lot of spark to the series. In the second season… this just doesn’t apply at all. He has been weakened and beaten pretty often, with in this episode him losing his chariot, in favor of characters as Kotomine Kirei and Kiritsugu.”

    I think it has to do with the fact that Rider’s larger-than-life attitude is completely overshadowed by all the tragic and dark events taking place. There was a lot of build-up in the first 13 episodes of the series, so there was even time for Rider and Waver hijinks. Now, not so much… He truly is a likable fellow, though.

    The story’s in full swing, the ending is rushing toward us, and there’s pretty much nothing but despair ahead.

  13. kero says:

    I enjoyed the bike scene, definitely worth waiting for a higher quality
    dl

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Vonter
Then there's the franchise appeal. Which inherently gains something because of persistence, awareness and name. It is hard when great visual effort is mainly put in things that are guaranteed to be a hit, because original stuff tend to make mistakes to find their own identity. Which in itself makes them very risky affairs.
Vonter
It's also a heavy flaw of the internet, having mainly binary opinions of good or bad. Which makes it hard to tell if you'll like something in the 7s like Nier or Alien 3 (might not be a 7 but opinions make it sound like it is). Divisive products that may or not may suit one's tastes.
Vonter
Personally I think the issue has become what suits your tastes, what are you willing to give a chance and what hits beyond the medium it is presented.
Vonter
@AidanAK47 "Manga in general is great but Jesus Christ the industry is a mess". - I mean, movies, games, and other entertainment have the same issue, since everyone has a big slice of the pie, yet there are like a million things competing for one's attention.
SuperMario
On that note, apart from the 3 shows I'n currently covering (Eccentric Family, Tsuki ga Kirei and ID-0), I will give a full review on Grimoire of Zero, a show that I feel rather difficult to pinpoint exactly on its quality.
SuperMario
Can't believe we approaching the final week of this current season. Gonna be a busy week of blogging with the usual weekly posts plus the final impressions.
SuperMario
@Anon1206174: I agree with you on both counts. And Sakura Quest has never been bad, but it could have been deeper and less messy. If you plan to watch ID-0 (I suggest you do), don't get your expectation too high because it works much better when you expect nothing of it. Like each episode I was genuinely surprised how good ID-0 actually is.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember one of Aidan's visual novel posts where he said theres potentially hundreds of VNs un-translated and LNs too, makes me wonder just how much un-translated manga we are missing out on.
Anonymous1206174
The ID-o posts sound pretty interesting, I am really thinking of dropping Sakura and watching this instead. Really loved the beginnign of Sakura and that abandoned town atmosphere it had, but I am not feeling it anymore. The recent episode about Shiori was great again though..
Kaiser-Eoghan
*looking
Then again he's an extremely forgetable person.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh Godammit, looing back over my comments I meant to say Souta not Setsuna, I suck at remembering non-English names.
Anonymous1205999
Meh - I really like this season but I already have my first cases of 'good-show-disappointing-ending/second half'
Anonymous1206022
KT Here:RE:Creators , we need to know more about the rules for Altair to see if that works. It might, and it might not. With what they know they have a good plan. But I was thinking why not just do a Super Smash Bros type game with the characters? I am sure that would generate enough stuff in order to lock her.
SuperMario
On Re:Creators, I find a better solution instead of going all cross-media like the show suggests. Someone could just make some fan-fiction on Altair that purposely show her weakness (like get busted when expose to the sun, or the magic word that render her skills useless). Less efforts, more effective
SuperMario
Man, I agree wholeheartedly with what KT said here: mass media actually sells, so it keeps the industry to a more stable position; then the art-house/more adult oriented anime can have some freedom to do what they like.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its more that I have to read it all at the same time as expecting action to come , it might change my mind if I watched it in English.
Anonymous1205580
KT here: I accept the mass media because it raises the funds for the less mainstream stuff I like. That is how I make my peace.

On RE:Creators. I get what you guys say. But for some reason I do not find the exposition heavy in this series. Every person has his own limit I guess
Alonaria
@Kaiser: Yep, that sounds about right, lol. I take my Sheldon in concentrated doses. I might give the Young Sheldon spin off an episode or two because it's highly exaggerated but still somewhat relatable to me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel big bang theory is a show for people who know nothing about nerds/nerd culture to find funny.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And then theres this thing about Sheldon being some kind of autism spectrum thing , which is kind of annoying to hear when I am on the spectrum myself and never really found the character all that amusing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably not the strongest reason to go off a show but, it was people around me going on and on about big bang theory that eventually put me off it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol is it any surprise Miura and the hunter x hunter guy take so many breaks =P
Alonaria
*Sheldon
Alonaria
I pick and choose Big Bang episodes that I enjoy. Shelden in the ball pit never ceases to amuse me. Still, it's definitely overrated haha.
Lenlo
IT Crowd > Modern Big Bang. Early Big Bang was good.

And yes, the work conditions in the Manga Industry are terrible. Oda, One Piece Mangaka, works stupid hours. He requests his assistances be "Willing to die for One Piece" because of the amount of work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And hell yeah"! someone else thats hates on big bang theory.
IT crowd > big bang.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more safer
Kaiser-Eoghan
And yet now here I am at same time, I think it might be kind of a shame that I can't see the value and fun anymore in some less safer offerings.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I thinking I might go insane if I looked up comments defending the visuals in occultic; nine.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hate to say it but sometimes opinions, mainstream ones are actually wrong. Its a fact that superhero films have bad action scenes and cinematography and Hardboiled, a chinese action film is better filmed in terms of choreography.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As dickish as this is to say, I really do recoil when ssomeone says something like the Notebook or fifty shades is the best film of all time/their favourite.
Kaiser-Eoghan
See theres also factoring in the people whos favourite film or anime of all is the most recent they finished.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember mentioning recently that I was re-watching the twilight zone, the response I got was "I thought that you were talking about twilight"
Kaiser-Eoghan
See thats whats so great about being able to talk about more niche stuff online, theres an easier to find common ground.
AidanAK47
In general when it comes to mass popular opinion it's the tried and true safe stuff that ends up selling. The highest selling Mario games are the New Super Mario ones. The same generic Light novel and harems keep selling. There are plenty of examples but majority opinion tends to gravitate to the safe and familiar.
Kaiser-Eoghan
See, most (offline) people (and or teenagers)who aren't really all that interested in film or don't look into it that much will turn out for things like fifty shades, transformers or twilight, thats why those are popular. Most people aren't going to watch something made more than a few years ago or subtitled.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh...lol fuck thats a blunder...yes I meant Re:creators.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But by all means, people are fully entitled to like what they like. But there is a reason why so much rubbish gets popular.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Re:Creators.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As someone who would actually consider themselves creative and interested in things being imaginative I really do hate the whole anti-creativity /anti-art, anti-intelligence movement and way of thinking that allows un-deservedly popular things like what Aidan mentioned to fester.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yes Re:zero's poor pacing and leaden dialogue is becoming too dominant and there should be more action, its good Setsuna opened up, but I still don't particularly like him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine the magazines/editors probably consider themselves the writers sometimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Pretty sure I only read nisekoi because I was keeping up with conversations about it, then dropped it before the Chitoge doublie showed up, just stopped reading.
AidanAK47
On the matter of Re:Creators, I feel the same as the Anon said. I find the exposition to just drone on far too much.
AidanAK47
On the matter of the manga industry being shit...it is. Manga in general is great but Jesus Christ the industry is a mess. Work conditions are utterly abhorrent and it's even worse that most series live or die based on a magazine popularity poll.
Because just because something is popular, does not mean it is quality. Example: Transformers, Twilight, Fifty shades, Sword Art Online, Big Bang theory
AidanAK47
@Anon, Still not getting your logic here. I mean if I have a problem with it after trying it then why am I not allowed to complain about it? Anyway it is only popular for the pandering. Even those who like Nisekoi admit that it's a mediocre harem and they mainly enjoy the waifu wars on the internet.
SuperMario
and now we will resort to illegal streaming sites for this one. "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem", this f*cking true
SuperMario
Huh? Welcome to the Ballroom Anime Gets Amazon Prime-Only Streaming Inside and Outside Japan. Now that just unbearable
SuperMario
Don't know about this new Re:Creators episode since I haven't watched it, but I don't really mind Meteora. Her dialogues scream "exposition" but she still fits well to the story. The fights are good, I agree, but why didn't they go all the way with the world's collapse last episode?
Anonymous1202407
Whether Nisekoi is pandering or not, it is not enough proof for you to suggest that manga industry is shit. If u want good mainstream then its not that hard to find. Also for every success like Nisekoi which u claim to be pandering, there are dozen like it that failed to be popular. Why? Because it clearly is popular for a reason other than just simple pandering.
SuperMario
Ha, Ping Pong. I need that kind of show again in my life.
Lenlo
Also, Ping Pong is amazing.
Lenlo
Theres a difference between pandering to a large audience, and an anime/manga with a quality story that everyone ends up liking. Ive always found moe shows and things like Nisekoi to be the former.
Anonymous1202407
If you have a problem with it after trying it just dont read it. Its that simple. Also what a surprise that a show like nisekoi that appeals to a large demographic is popular. U want the mangaka to apologize it's not some art house story like Ping Pong?
Lenlo
Meteora is pretty hit or miss with her dialogue imo. Sometimes its great, othertimes its not. I can say though I enjoy most of the fights.
Anonymous1202113
I really want to like Re:Creators. To be honest though, I'm getting tired of the dialogue. It has its high points, but it sometimes just seems to drone on and on, especially with all of Meteora's "hypotheses."
KT
Both Bahamut and RE:Creators had great episodes. But I was indeed mentally screaming Super Smash Bros at RE:Creators. You will get the point when you watch the episode.
AidanAK47
Taken on it's own, Nisekoi is harmless. But it is undeniably proof that you need not be creative or innovative to succeed in the industry. In fact declaring creative bankruptcy could turn more fruitful than genuine effort.
AidanAK47
And I said how can you decide you don't like something if you haven't read it?
Of course you are likely mean that if you don't like something then give up on reading it further which of course does not mean that someone cannot complain about it regardless.
Anonymous1198985
No, Im said if you dont like nisekoi dont read it
AidanAK47
@Anon, How do you know you don't like it if you don't read it?
Anonymous1196967
Don't like it don't read it.
AidanAK47
I went and read Double Arts. This really was a great manga with tons of potentail and truly didn't deserve the axe. It's so depressing that this was cut off so soon and the author went on to make the most generic Harem ever Nisekoi, and that got over 200 chapters.
Lenlo
All of the important dance scenes for Yuri were fantastic, its just some minor one off characters and some reused ones that were an issue, so no they are better than the CGI
Anonymous1190387
Is it worse than those CGI dance scenes in some anime?
AidanAK47
@Puran, It is pretty surprising how well that story turns out. I say IG might do the job even if there animation isn't the most consistent. The one thing I am worried about is those necks though. In the PV those things were ridiculously long.
Puran
Fair enough, recycling the animation was bad, agreed. But the animation itself was really good.
Lenlo
See, I found the repeated dances in Yuri one of the worse parts. Alot of it was recycled animation and certain characters were obviously rushed/not done. Some were amazing, cause they took their time, but others looked terrible.
Puran
I kinda wish Mappa was doing the anime though. Yuri on Ice had really nicely animated dances (and was more or less the only actually good quality of that show :P )
Puran
Reading the Ballroom e Youkoso manga has made me really excited about the Anime.
Kaiser_Eoghan
@Aidan: I'm particularly turned off by bully/bullying cliches these days. I've only read the first two volumes to see how awful she was but I ended up simply losing track of the series and stopped reading.
Kaiser_Eoghan
@Mario: Actually that has changed, I had to pick a different day to see it given changes in schedule, I've booked it for NEXT Wednesday now. I've watched Akira about four times.
AidanAK47
Oh, Rising of the Shield Hero is getting an anime adaption. Hmmm...honestly after finishing the series and looking over it as a whole I am not sure I even want that. Plus seeing Bitch Animated...would fill me with rage.
SuperMario
I intend to re-watch Akira soon, probably this weekend. It has been almost 10 years since my first watch and now I don't remember much about that one. Thought it was intriguing and complex but not as acclaimed as people hyped it to be (I'll pick Ghost in the Shell anytime). Wonder how I'd feel now after re-watching it.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I remember you mentioned that you were going to watch In this Corner of the World today right? How was the movie Kaiser?
Lenlo
Oh cool, food wars is getting a 3rd season
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ballroom youkoso appears to be leading the polls.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Fumiko is a female mangaka yes. Also I found bokura no hentai worth reading.
SuperMario
yep, I finished that manga too and I have conflicted feeling about it. Yuri(!) part and fanservice are to blatant but they have a purpose. This mangaka (not sure but I think she's a girl) has some unique voice.
AidanAK47
....well I skimmed that manga. And it was weird
SuperMario
By all appearances,Sakura is normal,albeit sheltered junior high school girl who enjoy talking about love and walking home from school together.However,they also happen to inhabit a strange and supernatural world populated by mysterious,gigantic beings and unusual plant and animal life.Amid their peaceful lives,Sakura becomes very interested in something only alluded to exist in old books: dicks
SuperMario
Here's a synopsis of other manga from the same author, I think you'll have a better idea of his theme -
Sakura no Sono
AidanAK47
Pretty much what Masky said. I am not really praising it. Anyway I plan to read one or two more chapters to see where it's going. But if it's going in the direction I think it's going then I am dropping this one fast.
Kaiser_Eoghan
There is of course the underlying concern that it will go a very ugly route with that development or it could become edgy/horribly minipulative, but for now it is as mario said, a hook.
SuperMario
Well. overall I don't dislike what I read there. It has good hook and I'm intrigued to know more what the hell will happen. Good set-up for me. I'm in
SuperMario
@Masky: it's fine Masky, since I will chec itk out any way and see it for myself ^^
Masky
So since you guys started being interested, I checked it out and uh.. Yeah, not reading. I think ye guys misunderstood Aidans warnings since that was just fucked up and not in the interesting way.
Lenlo
@Aidan: Berserk will never again go more than 3-4 months without a hiatus.
SuperMario
Hmmm, that manga Cutie Mutie sounds good to me. I might check it out later today
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But had you not alluded to that scene, I may have seen the cover of that manga and skipped over it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I had a feeling, sort of, sad, I am intrigued to read more.
AidanAK47
Hyping and warning are not the same thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well with Aidan hyping up the horrors of cutie mutie I may as well glance at it to see what he' on about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are three manga with the name rec.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am familiar with the artist for cutie mutie, she did that manga about the three kids dealing with gender/orientation issues.
AidanAK47
Oh look Berserk is on Haitus again....
.....the sad thing is that it comes as expected now.
AidanAK47
For reference the two I read were Cutie Mutie and Rec. Be warned, the first one goes to a rather uncomfortable level.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Read two manga. One started lighthearted and then went to really dark territory. The other one looks like it's about a really dark subject but turned out to be something more lighthearted.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Alright. Tested it now so it such be fixed. Try again.
Masky
@Aidan: Huh? What you read that turned dark/didn't turn dark? .-.
SuperMario
"too many answers selected for question 1! only 3 answers allowed!"
SuperMario
@Aidan: I still have the same issues. Weird
AidanAK47
@Mario, Wasn't my intent. Try it now and you should be able to pick as many as you want.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I'm not allowed to vote more than 3 votes. Is it your intention Aidan?
AidanAK47
Well that was weird. I read something that looked innocent but turned out to be really dark. Then something that looked really dark only to become innocent.
Masky
Yeah, nothing that interests me I see :D Like my strongest reaction to season preview was "Someone made isekai with smartphone? Really? REALLY? Thats best idea you had"
Masky
Ah Knighs and Magic, found that manga. It was boring enough for me to forget its name. Also besides being boring, I kinda find MC unlikeable since their only personality is that they like mechas and were a programmer before renicarnating as short bishie kid
Masky
Woo, time to vote stuff
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that movie In this Corner just getting more and more acclaimed huh? Thou I think it'a a type of movie that if you have high expectation for it you will likely be disappointed. It works best as a sleeper hit
SuperMario
As for cute monster girls, most of the time I don't find them cute at all. I know I'm being racist, but...
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm guilty with that cute girls genre, as i enjoyed K-On tremedously for example. Or If I have more time I'd follow Hinako Note this season ^^
Kaiser-Eoghan
They don't always adapt all that well or work as well outside of manga format, especially 4-komas.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*three
Kaiser-Eoghan
The only two of any interest were hidamari sketch, azumanga daioh and yuru yuri and that was largely down to being in the mood for them a few years ago.
Lenlo
@Mario: Personally, I have 0 interest in this Monster girls doing cute things subgenre, just like I have very little interest in the cute girls doing cute things major genre.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: As it turns out I DID read in this corner of the world. I'll also be seeing it next thursday.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: at this moment I'm very skeptical with the whole Monster girls doing cute girl subgenre, so I'm approachig Centaur with a caution. Of course, it all depends on how I feel after the first episode
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Happy End isn't as bleak aa his other works. But it's certainly Hanake's films, as it explores many of his favorite themes: the voyeurist of camera in his Benny's video, the detachment to the world and the underlying violence. Not his best thou but it's still very good
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think I'd be up for watching jigoku shojo, its been a long time since I watched the original two seasons and this one won't be as long, so it won't get as repetitive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I voted centaur no nanami on the poll, think Mario could cover it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: How did did you get on with Happy end? I heard its like a mix of his best works. Is it as dark and depressing?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have vague memories of in the corner of the worlds manga, unless I'm mixing it up with something else.
SuperMario
Some news, Lu Over the Wall won the best prize at this year's Annecy (the 1st anime won the award since 1995's Pom Poko), with In the Corner of the World took the Jury Prize. Quite a good showing for anime this year.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Hello.
SuperMario
Really, still no vote for Kakegurui?? I thought it would take the top poll for sure
SuperMario
That 18if, even the poster doesn't make much sense, but it looks dazzling ^^
Lenlo
go-go licensed products!
SuperMario
@Lenlo: and Madhouse is the studio behind that Marvel rip-off. Are they really going that low for profits?
Lenlo
Lookin forward to Kakeguri next season, but thats the only thing thats really caught my eye
Lenlo
Well, you have to watch Marvel next season right?
AidanAK47
And done. I swear these previews take a lot out of me.
AidanAK47
Almost done....almost done...
KT
Attack of Titan, ended ok. But man the production values had gone down.

Virgin Soul had a okish episde

Re:Creators continues to rock for me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the 70s version ending, it was mean spirited =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The original used its one room location quite well and dim lighting in parts, very closed in/claustrophobic.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: just finished the Beguiled and it was much better than I expected. Like, I didn't expect it to be that well shot. The guy was put in a passive role than active here, which help the theme imo. Also, the ending admitedly isn't for everyone but I liked it just fine
SuperMario
@Kaiser: using a black girl? The girls in this one are all white :(
AidanAK47
Sato in Re:Creators isn't doing himself any favors is he? Honestly the more I learn about him, the less likable he becomes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It was a good film though, one of scarjos better moments.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: As for Sofia, I'm only familiar with lost in translation, which I haven't seen since it originally came out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Everyone goes on about Francis' for the Godfather, the conversation is massively underated and apocalypse now is better, but it has to be the theatrical cut.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I guess it was probably seen as progressive in its day by way of using the black girl.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Very very cynically 70s of course.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Actually just happened to finish it there, I felt it stood out for its somewhat successful gothic feel and aesthetic and Eastwood's performance which shows how well he can command the audiences attention even when he isn't shooting people. Kind of liked how it got slightly grisly later on. It makes a small effort in giving one line backstories .
SuperMario
@Kaiser: the original movie isn't that well-received. It's more like an exotica film where the main guy (Clint Eastwood) hooks up girls of all ages. This one I heard has a good spin on feminist angle. I'm sure is intrigued but Sofia Coppola's filmography has been mixed for me
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I doubt any one has ever heard of this....I know I didn't, I haven't read it either but I came across some weird old Blacksploitation manga, probably from the 90s, Blast knuckle or something...
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Still remaking the beguiled might be good, we need more modern westerns.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose I can busy myself with the original 70s version of beguiled. At the moment I've been focusing on old Japanese films, they had such a good film industry, it makes it hurt so much more now knowing that all they do now is shit live action adaptations.
Total users: 37

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