Posted by psgels on 16 June 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

After nearly finishing this series, one thing that surprised me is that Kotomine Kirei didn’t really turn into such a psychotic villain. In fact for me he’s one of the most interesting characters in this second season in the way he’s searching for something to fill his doubts with. I’d much rather label Kiritsugu as the psychopath, especially after what happened in this episode.

But that definitely was a great cliff-hanger at the end of this episode. Although that does leave me to wonder: Tohsaka Tokiomi wanted a wish that would require to rewrite the laws of reality right? If such a wish is possible, then why can’t Kiritsugu’s wish of wanting to save everyone come true? To take the boats example: why not use magic to fix both holes? I get what this episode was going for in that Kiritsugu’s wish was way too naive, but if you’ve already gone over nine thousand multiple times, then this seems a pretty strange place to stop. Also, why did the grail appear, even though there were still some people fighting over it?

In any case, the action scenes were all great here, although the fight between Saber and Berserker felt a bit underwhelming, considering most of happened off-screen, and we still don’t really know why he became Berserker. Kiritsugu vs Kotomine was very well directed though, and I liked a lot how professional both were.
Rating: *+ (Great)

32 Responses

  1. Anca says:

    I assume it can’t come true because of that thing someone said earlier that someone else said was a spoiler (although I’m not sure how): that the grail is tainted because of that dude in that village who was tortured to death, so it always interprets wishes in the worst way possible..

    That said, it was explained better and I haven’t read the VN myself.

  2. tsao says:

    Yea if I remember correctly because I read this novel way way back a long time ago so my memory is a bit hazy, the grail was tainted by angra mainyu and it basically became corrupt in a way where its wishes were basically all hell. And Mainyu basically hated the world and represented all the evils in it so basically the “holy grail” during the fourth war was basically not meant to really grant the wishes, but create suffering. So basically I think that if Tohsaka or anyone else had gotten the grail the same thing would have happened to them since the grail in the first place at the beginning of the story was no longer its “omnipotent wishing device”. I can’t really call Kiritsugu a psychopath since he knows that if he chose his wife and daughter, he would basically kill everyone else in the world and there’s no way he could agree to that considering the manner of thinking he’s always had. He’s sadly the tragic hero in this story and you can’t help but feel bad for everything that has happened to him considering he really wanted to save the world.

  3. IronZeta says:

    There was a dude that was sacrificed because his village believed he was the personification of all the world’s evil Angra Mainyu, and he was summoned as Servant Avenger in the third war. He was killed and his soul was added to the Grail like all Servants, but because he was the personification of the wish for all the world’s evil to be personified in one person, the Grail interpreted his soul as a wish and granted it, so now Angra Mainyu (All the World’s Evil) is in the Grail and is twisting it to interpret all wishes in the worst way possible.

  4. anonymous says:

    Repost from 4chan

    the boat explaination works best
    in his wish he’ll kill half the world to save half the world
    kill half of them to save half
    kill half of them to save half
    in the end it’ll be just him alive and the world will know peace

    He had always been willing to sacrifice the minority for the majority because he believed the end justifies the means. But the Grail/Angry Manjew demonstrated that there would be no “end.”

  5. Cholisose says:

    While I was absolutely blown away by this episode (HOLY CRAP that Kiritsugu vs Kirei fight… and DAT CLIFFHANGER), I will agree that there were a few things that have left me rather confused.
    I’m hoping there will somehow be a little more revealed for Lancelot? I mean, I think that in the real legend there was that falling away between Arthur and Lancelot (the whole affair with Guinevere ordeal), but Saber being a woman in this story makes me wonder if things played out the same way. I’m not even sure if Lancelot is supposed to be insane, since Kariya had summoned Berserker with an insanity add-on for his magic spell in episode one (IIRC).
    I’m also a bit confused about the Holy Grail in general. The series had made it sound like a master would receive the grail once all his opponents’ servants were killed. And was it always planned from the start that Irisviel would turn into the Grail? If so, doesn’t that kind of mean Kiritsugu would win no matter what, as long as he had kept her with him? Though now Grail-Irisviel seems to just be trolling him with philosophical questions, rather than actually letting him make a wish (though again, there’s still Archer left to kill [and presumably Saber too, if Kirei’s words about all the servants needing to be sacrificed is to be believed]). I guess I’ll have to hope next episode will answer all these questions, because I’m not getting how this system works.
    Regarding Kirei, I have to say I do feel a little bad for him dying without finding any of those answers he was looking for. I mean, he was a terrible guy, but Kiritsugu’s no saint either. It’s a bit complicated, Fate/Zero’s sliding scale of morality. x_x

    • Moriae says:

      Lancelot had a detailed chapter flashback and a lot more revealed in the novels. They cut the scenes for this episode to focus on Kirei vs Kiritsugu. Let’s pray for them to include them in the bluray as they usually do.

      >if Kirei’s words about all the servants needing to be sacrificed is to be believed

      That is only for a wish to open a path to the Root (what Tokiomi wanted). Other wishes need less sacrifices. That’s why Gilgamesh agreed to give the grail to Kirei.

  6. Dr. Pest says:

    Problem with this series is that it is too special to make it really fit the 20 minute episode scheme. So many things you will only see when the blue rays got released. They added around 40 minutes of new footage to the last season which really improved especially the king’s drinking episode (with Saber, Rider and Gilgamesh) and the part where Gil was analyzing Kotomine which felt in which his guessings about Kotomine’s interest in Kariya felt awkward in the TV version.

    The whole Berserker thing will be explained as well in the upcoming BDs. So if you have enough time and liked the series you should give it a watch when the BD versions will be out in September.

  7. Sacchi says:

    When Irisviel von Einzbern gradually merges with the Holy Grail, Avenger possesses her and controls her.

    During in the final battle between Emiya Kiritsugu and Kotomine Kirei, the Grail gushes out black mud which engulfed both of them. Though both of them entered in a dream like state, the Grail recognize Kiritsugu as the victor. Avenger uses Irisviel to confront Kiritsugu in his mind and asks his wish, however it comes with a heavy price. In his mind, he was forced to confront the fact that his methods will eventually lead to him becoming the ultimate enemy of humanity, equal to Angra Mainyu itself – and, ‘Irisviel’ proclaimed, this path is correct.

    Kiritsugu, now realizing that the Grail is corrupted, he shoots down all his love ones including the illusions of his wife and daughter. As he rejected ‘Irisviel’, Avenger placed a curse on him – to never be free of regret until his painful death.

    Kirei, having went through the same experience, asked Kiritsugu why he rejected the Grail; Kiritsugu’s answer was that it sacrifices too many things for what it gives. Kirei says that he wanted it even so and Kiritsugu, admitting that he didn’t understand Kirei, shot him in the heart.

    From a wikia. Honestly, this episode was great, but all this stuff was left in the dark. The only thing in favor of Fate Zero is Rider asking if the Grail is what Weaver truly believes it is. That’s the only foreshadowing that I can remember.

  8. Spider says:

    Awesome episode. It needed more Berserker/Grail explanations, but it can come with next episode or BDs.
    And… Only great+ for this episode? C’mon. Some episodes of Moretsu Pirates, Kanojo X and others are so much worse and you gave a better rating.

  9. AidanAK47 says:

    Now it’s time to play the “Lets fill in the holes for people who didn’t read the novel” game. Time and time again I heard people saying that the grail business would be explained at the end of the show but from what I remember from the novel it was never quite explained in fate/zero. I didn’t say anything because I wasn’t sure. Anyway…

    In the third holy grail war the Einzbern family cheated and tried to summon the Persian god of darkness, Angra Mainyu in the “Avenger” class thinking he would be amazingly powerful. However turns out that Angra Mainyu was just some man who was living in a town that wanted to be a pure good utopia. However they realised that evil was necessary. So they took some random guy and labelled him all the evils in the world. So whenever something bad happened then it was all his fault. Bad harvest? His fault. Son got sick? His fault. As a result he was a crappy servant and died fairly quickly. His soul entered the grail and the grail misinterpreted as a wish “Form someone to embody all the evils of the world” and it begin creating this individual who tainted the grail into a hell spawning device. This thing is currently inside the grail and wishes to be born into the world.

    As for Kiritsugu’s wish of saving everyone the Grail/Angra Mainyu made it clear. Kiritsugu’s wish is to save the world but he doesn’t know how this could be accomplished. The grail can’t grant a wish if Kiritsugu himself doesn’t even know how. So it saves people in the only way Kiritsugu knows how, picking the majority over the minority. Plus as said before, it will now only grant wishes in the worst way possible.

    Five servants is enough to grant a wish. But if you wish to reach the origin of magic then you need all seven. Of course most participants don’t know this.

    And there was a lot cut out from this episode. Berserker’s battle and back-story were just gone. That’s for the blu-rays I guess. Of course if you don’t want to re-watch the blu-rays then just look of Lancelot on Wikipedia. It’s pretty easy to see why he would be pissed at Arthur.

  10. Souther says:

    I don’t really think it’s necessary to read all the previous replies, full of information that isn’t even in the Fate/Zero novel, when it is pretty clear that the Grail isn’t exactly an instrument for good, just going by what is in the content of the anime itself.

    The rest are just background details for the curious, but I don’t see the point of reading too much about that right now.

  11. Saigo says:

    Angra Mainyu tainted the grail in the third war. The grail usually summon “good” heroes, but some day it summoned a anti hero of the class AVENGER, the servant was weak and was killed, but the grail gets corrupted forever.

    The problem of Type Moon series, is that not all info is in the main series.

    The grail was a “good and pure” artifact-. Now is possesed by Angra Mainyu/ Avenger.

    And it can summon bad heroic spirits like Gille de Rais (caster).

    The actual grial is a being of pure evil-

  12. wicked says:

    You might have misread the Kiritsugu moment. Irisviel was dead the moment she merged with the grail, what’s left was only an image controlled by the corrupted grail.(the black ooze and the evil smiling Irisveil from previous episode). What Kiristugu realized is that the if he had wished for what he originally meant to wish for, the world would very literally die, and his true wish is revealed that the only people that really mattered to him were Iris and Ilya, but it would truly be psychopathic of him to have gone through with his wish knowing the everyone else would die and the grail will only grant his wish through destruction. His killing of his family illusion were gestures symbolic of him rejecting the grail.

    Kirei while may not act psychotic, is truly psychopathic, he doesnt fight for something, rather he does so because his lack of something. Fate/Zero is basically the beginning of his madness, but the sickness was there the entire time, maybe the ending will be more clear of why I said that

    Tohsaka had the only true pure wish, in that his was not truly a wish for an end but rather the act of truly completing the grail itself and connect to the origin. He had no wish for the Grail to achieve, rather all that energy would be used to open the gateway to the Origin, so think of it as an alternate function of the cup rather than wish granting aspect of it.

  13. yokushi says:

    Angra Mainyu and the grail tainting is never explained here.

    That’s the problem with Fate/Zero being a prequel, some things are explained in Fate/stay night novel.

  14. Juno says:

    To add on to what others are saying, more from Fate/Stay Night that was never explained in Fate/Zero about the grail:

    Aside from this 8th Avenger class, another secret had been held from the participants: that the grail was a search for the great sorcery, the origin, and that in actuality, all Masters and Servants were tools to summon it. Masters killing other masters was a rule added on to allow them to be disposed of easier, and leaving the grail to the last master was fine, since the true purpose of the grail didn’t end at the granting of the wish, and more miracles could happen. The grail was made as it was to allow both with the new sorcery… but after the Avenger/Angra Mainyu incident, the grail had already granted a wish, and it was simply using its own power to reawaken and get born in the world as the true evil.

    And while Kirei was definitely characterized very well, I realized from Fate/Stay Night that he wishes the thing to be born into the world because he, himself, feels only pleasure and happiness at pain, as someone who knows only sin and evil might be. His only regret was not killing his fiancee/wife by his own hands, and because he is open to this evil, and yet still believes in his principles of blessings, he feels his only role is blessing anything that wishes to be born into the world, good or evil, like himself. As an answer to justify his own existence in the world, despite being a sinful person. Like the grail. It has every right to exist if God, or whatever the will of the world is, allows it to exist. It is not good or evil. It can only be judged upon having been born, even if it is inevitably born to bore evil. Thus, allow it to be born. Everything after that is up to the judgement of others alive and whether or not it can survive.

    • wicked says:

      It is most certainly an self affirmation the Kirei wanted to see the grail complete in Staynight, though if I remember correctly, you would only know this in the Heaven Feel route. It’s not that he does not know good and evil as he’s raised a member of the church with strict teaching of right and wrong, it’s that his very existence is at odds with the teachings since he can only take pleasure in what is evil. He questions how an evil like him can even be allow to come to pass in the first place, so he wants to see true evil take form

      • Juno says:

        You said it better than I did. Thank you. =)
        Heaven’s Feel is stuck in my mind. I wasn’t expecting it to clear up all the plot holes from the first two routes. I’m so glad I kept reading, even though it took forever to get to that point…
        And I’m glad I finished it before reaching this episode. I would have been confused as all heck. Especially about Kirei’s “death.”

  15. James says:

    Concerning the queries about Lancelot’s grudge against Saber, in the light novel, it was depicted that Saber did not give Lancelot the “honourable” defeat he deserved, and for that he despised Saber so much so that the grudge he had towards Saber was enough to have him getting summoned as a Berserker class. For his ability to turn everything he touches into his own noble phantasm, this is due to his previous life achievement where he used a twig to defeat an enemy. Next, for his cloaking ability, it was said that he disguised himself as the black knight to compete in a chivalry competition and hence, his ability to conceal his identity. That’s as much info as possible regarding Lancelot/Berserker’s ability.

    But this episode was superb! I mean, Kiritsugu vs Kirei was one thing, but the whole psychological part was awesome in a twisted way. It was either to save the people he loved and sacrifice the rest or to sacrifice his wish and lose his loved ones. Man, that was good brain food.

    Last noteworthy thing: Gilgamesh is the most arrogant, conceited and narcissistic anime character yet! God, I like how he goes “I am the one king in this world. Whatever I dictate is justice and the law itself.”

  16. Loz says:

    Awesome show as usual. Not that ive read the VN, but I like how they portray some of the messages in this show. I think in terms of Kiritsugu’s wish, for peace to be obtained somethings got to give, so it would appear the only way you can gain true peace is if nothing is left. (So to gain peace you have to become a villain who destroys everything? Quite the paradox)

    I also really like the theme of Sacrifice.

    If you stop thinking bout the holy grail for a second and just think of the notion that you cant gain everything from nothing. So the grail is always going to be flawed. For example Fullmetal alchemist had the same theme with its equivalent exchange.

    You have to sacrifice something of equal/more value if you want to gain something of equal measure. In this case Kiritsugu obviously values his wife and child more than anything else in the world, but killing all the billions of people in the world isnt worth gaining his 2 family memders.

    I suppose now that I think about it you can make paradoxes out all the characters wishes/actions in this show. Well I cant think of one for Tokiomi Toshaka at the moment, but I sure someone more psychologically minded then myself could find a paradox for him in there.

  17. Hououin Kyouma says:

    Thanks so much for the info guys!! Now most questions about Lancelot and the background/nature of the grail are gone. Still…I find a bit awkward its relationship with Irisviel, indeed; Wasn’t Kiritsugu at advantage by having her with him and knowing the other masters ignore of many of this, before truly winning??

    And hell yeah!! What an awesome ep!! Best 20 mins used for that breath-taking fight depiction, mind-blowing FMA-like plot twist and that cliffhanger… OMG…I rank it waaay better than Kanojo X and Sakamichi no Apollon when respectively preparing for their great ends.

    And again…Archer’s personality managed to fascinate me one last time! That IS having self-esteem…

    • Juno says:

      Whether or not he knew that the Holy Grail would fill, no matter what, he was at an advantage. That was, until Irisviel was kidnapped before truly reaching the point where she would become the Holy Grail.

      Though I don’t think the ending was FMA-like. Kiritsugu wasn’t being given any equivalent exchange for his wish in the end. His wish was just being thoroughly destroyed by his own method of salvation he wished to overcome. The Grail probably COULD have saved humanity if the whole thing with the Avenger class never came to root in the Holy Grail because of the Third Sorcery or whatever it was beyond the gate that made it all-powerful.

  18. some loser says:

    Happy Father’s Day Illya!

  19. Blah says:

    WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE!!!

    STOP SPOILING EVERYTHING ABOUT THE VISUAL NOVEL!!!

    • AidanAK47 says:

      People who haven’t read the visual novel already have almost everything spoilt if they watched Fate/zero up to this point.
      Besides the only ones watching this are those who have read the visual novel or those that never intend to read it.

      • Kuroichi says:

        Mostly true, but you forget of those who had not heard of Fate before this and planned to read the VN once Zero is over…

        • wicked says:

          You know, I dont think the stuff that’s spoiled here really spoils anything for Staynight.

          You found out through Kiritsugu that the Grail’s ability to grant miracles is, more or less, a lie. The Grail is evil, that’s what’s been established here. Whether or not you knew it was Avenger that tainted the grail in the previous war, it matters not. If you were to play the VN after Fate /Zero you would have known the Grail is evil, it really doesnt spoil much of anything, because and people may disagree with me here, but granting wishes through grail is really not that big of a deal in Staynight, certain not to Shirou.

          and Kirei’s character. Yeah, that guy is not exactly chatty about himself through most of Staynight. In fact, if you only played the fate route, you’d be just as confused about his actions. While He’s an important part of Heaven’s feel, and you’ll know more about him, it wont impact the story itself one way or another to know that he has existential problems. Heaven’s Feel is a situation entirely on its own, he doesnt exactly have control in it

  20. Leica says:

    Wasn’t Tokiomi’s idea to sacrifice every single servant and get to Akasha that way?

  21. Jack says:

    One of the best anime episodes I’ve seen in quite some time… Kiritsugu vs. Kirei was simply perfect, but I also liked how anticlimatic the end of Kariya/Berserker was: truly, this pair’s story was only sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    I also like how, deep down, the “King of Kings” is nothing but a thug… I mean, the way he’s acting with Saber, he’s basically a rapist.

  22. Stars says:

    Most incredible episode of FZ so far, this show is insanely epic.

  23. mnk says:

    i thought lancelot’s rage is a result of arturia’s clouded ideology of rulership; described by iskander

    • wicked says:

      It’s more detail reveal in the novel that Lancelot was warp by guilt and the circumstances that led to his downfall, which was a situation where all sides are righteous in their action, yet it only led to tragedy to all sides. Arturia cannot blame him from loving Guinevere because she herself cannot give Guinevere the same, Lancelot cannot blame Arturia for sacrificing Guinevere’s role and heart as a women, because she not only did the same, she did so for the country. He should hate her for ruining Guinevere’s life and forcing him to oppose his king, but he cannot because he know she only does so because the situation force her to, and in her heart she held not grudge, only sympathy and regret toward them. So he has all these rage for the injustice of it all, but no one to direct it to because of reason and his own ideals. He prayed to no longer be a righteous knight, if he was not selfless and understanding, he can direct this rage toward her, and she can do the same to him and truly punishes him. Only then he can find solace in that He was the one that was wrong in all of it, and finally forgives himself.

      Although, he did not get that satisfaction either

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
SuperMario
guys, new posts are below the summary right now!
AidanAK47
Too late.
SuperMario
@Aidan: haha alright I'm gladly to do that
AidanAK47
There we go. Forgot how to stick it but then figured it out again.
SuperMario
@Aidan: don't know if you mind but I intend to sticky the yearly summary until the next few days.
AidanAK47
Unless of course you are suggesting there are things about myself that I am not aware of?
AidanAK47
@Anon, No. For if you are aware that you lack self awareness then you no longer lack self awareness. You would be self aware. It's sort of a paradox in that in order to know you you lack self awareness you must be self aware.
Anonymous781147
Is it possible to be self aware of your lack of self awareness?
SuperMario
Seiren is worse than I've hoped, but I still want to finish it, along with Demi-chan and Dragon maid
SuperMario
Onihei I will give it another episode but the episodic nature doesn't grab me as much anymore. I will follow Hand Shakers because for Christsake it's just something else
SuperMario
I enjoyed Akiba's trip (still fun to see an anime that inspired by other anime and appeal to anime fans only), Masamune-kun no Revenge (2nd episode wasn't good but the 3rd was alright), Urara and Gabriel Dropout but that's the end of my trip on them
SuperMario
Okay, since we reached the 3rd episodes (man, don't tell me we already passed a quarter of this season already), I'll give you a bit of recap on what I've been following this season:
AidanAK47
Guess we can put that down as one of the most important things a critic needs. Self Awareness.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I won't deny having an inflated sense of worth but Nostalgia blindness? You are reaching man.
Anonymous777074
Just like you :)
AidanAK47
Anyway I never heard of this guy and he seems like the usually case of Nostalgia blindness and inflated sense of worth. Nothing really worth concerning ourselves about.
AidanAK47
"How can I be pretentious when I mean everything I say?" Oh silly silly fool. Being an idiot doesn't mean you can't be pretentious.
Kaiser Eoghan
I bring him up because I feel he'd be more controversial than Tenka seiha/aroduc or digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
Roriconfan/thatanimesnob/Peter Malousis: [link src="https://www.youtube.com/user/ThatAnimeSnob
http://youtube.wikia.com/wiki/ThatAnimeSnob
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1483389"]
SuperMario
I don't know who would that be either Kaiser? A V-blogger?
Lenlo
Who?
Kaiser Eoghan
We talk about digibro on here, yet we never talk about Rorico.
Anonymous774043
I agree
Anonymous773640
Shitcunt is the greatest anime villain of all time. End of argument.
Lenlo
Best villain was clearly JJ. JJ is actually the best character for every category.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, I just felt there was some social context to the discussion with the boss that I missed.
Kaiser Eoghan
Bah, haven't you heard, the best villain category was for the dictionary in Lost passage, must have been bastard-hard effort getting that compiled =P
AidanAK47
To sum that up, don't bully my waifu or I will end you.
AidanAK47
@Mario, She only killed him once and tortured him for information once. Both times because he had something which showed he had a connection to the witch. Besides, the anime mainly showed off her good points but she still has a crushing inferiority complex and a rather delicate mindset.
SuperMario
Oh I have one. How about Lovepon? lol
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it was sarcasm actually, if we do it again next year we might cut down some categories. But I totally agree that we're lacking of good villains. Biba and that teacher are the worst as they actually dragged their shows down.
Topgavin
Honestly though there's been a real lacking of good villains last year. I hear some guy from Jojo was pretty good, but other than that they've either been okay or lackluster. Makes you wonder how FMA:B managed to get so many villians right in so many ways when shows usually fail to get even 1 half as good.
Topgavin
@Supermario Biba or Teacher-dude from Erased surely...
SuperMario
Maybe we should include the best villain next time, haha. I honestly don't know who to pick...
SuperMario
oh Rem, that demon girl who tried to kill Subaru many times over. Why is she the best girl again?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I watched Moonlight last night in cinema and it was great. I had high expectation for that and it pretty much delivered. Also Janelle Monae was so freaking hot.
SuperMario
OMG, that 3rd episode of Rakugo was so greattttt. @Lenlo: don't need to understand the meaning of the rant thou, Yotaro doesn't understand either
Kaiser Eoghan
Think of the fine children/breeding stock Aidan and rem would offspring =P
Kaiser Eoghan
Dye their hair, make things confusing ;)
AidanAK47
@Anon, hahahaha, cool joke bro.....
...............................Don't make me destroy you.
Lenlo
The one with red hair of course
Anonymous765953
rem? who's that?
Lenlo
Having read the books, theres afew inconsistencies and I dont like some of the choices for actors.
Kaiser Eoghan
*couldn't
Kaiser Eoghan
Buh buh but Aiiiidan you still have the koe no katachi movie and thaaats kyoani =P But lol phantom world was so poor I couldn't get past the second episode. A shame that they could go with the darker spin the author ended up apparently going for in later volumes.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I am currently eh on it as well. Only at the second episode so far. I find it interesting but it has a lot of things that turn me off.
Lenlo
7 YEARS I SAT ON THAT BOAT!

Still havnt finished Flip Flappers. I like it, its pretty, each episode is different, but I can barely tell what the over-arching narrative is and thats a big deal to me
Lenlo
ITS REAL
Lenlo
BOAT TIER
Lenlo
@Aidan, Series of Unfortunate Events was eh. I wasnt a big fan of the TV adaptation, though I did like Neil Patrick Harris
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: BOAT TIER lmao.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats why I LOVED flippflappers so much, where else can I get THAT anywhere, totally its own thing/beast.
Lenlo
My big ones for the year were easily Rakugo and Re:Zero. Disappointments, biggest one is Berserk. Ive been following it for years, have the entire series on my shelf, and I watched it like a captain going down with his ship
Kaiser Eoghan
At the same time well, yes its still good to see a non-highschool story in ANYTHING.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, you see I don't really award points to an anime doing something unique to anime, I judge by all mediums as a group/whole. 91 days may be a mafia drama, kabaneri may be a zombie show but theres already plenty of those in the world elsewhere.
Kaiser Eoghan
I could see myself getting some oldskool charm out of alderman if I watched it. I was waiting for yuri on ice to be dubbed. Drifters for all its problems was some of the most fun I've had in ages.
Kaiser Eoghan
The only thing I saw that I truly abhorred though was the new shinkai film.
Kaiser Eoghan
Most of the other stuff I didn't really bother watching. Its pointless for me to shit on about 91 days and re:zero because I was guaranteed to dislike both before seeing either.
Kaiser Eoghan
Biggest disappointments for me were erased , berserk and joker game. Whereas my surprise was lost passage. My favourites of the year were flippflappers and Rakugo. I wanted Kabaneri and dimesion w to save anime and bring back some oldskool charm but that didn't happen.
AidanAK47
Alright I spent over an hour formatting this thing and now I am knackered. Readers, this summery is over 23 pages long so be prepared as this thing is pretty huge. Don't say you were not warned.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Watch it. I bet it will be up your alley.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats a problem with adaptations, put a voice on certain characters and it can become irritating.
Kaiser Eoghan
And to be fair on scums wish, that it deals with the sex bit in a teen story, well that makes it more daring and thats points for it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Largely stayed away from that series as I assumed it was for young children.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Additionally the relationships in that manga got too convoluted, the comedy stands out worse in the anime too. Still though I DO dig the idea behind the show of two kids who are in a fake relationship.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, you think that's hard to watch try watching Netflix's A series of unfortunate events. Because boy do I want to brutally murder the banker and his family. That may sound severe to you but trust me, you will feel likewise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You were right about it being harder to watch scums wish than read it. I want to hit the twin tails girl with a hatchet.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm laughing now remembering an old ANN review where they stated golgo 13 was a stress reliever for 30 something Japanese office workers, I get that so much more now lol
Kaiser Eoghan
But seriously violence in fiction, anime/manga included is so damn therapeutic.
Kaiser Eoghan
As such I genuinely was able to enjoy the new M night shaylman flick lol
Kaiser Eoghan
Venting here largely because I can, I now imagine the teenage/twenty something audience members at horror/thriller films as the victims in the films, makes it more tolerable to deal with their existence in the cinema.
Lenlo
I cant help but feel theres some cultural aspect I am missing to the Rakugo rant scene. Makes me sad.
Lenlo
Rakugo, continues to be great and gets another time skip. Im always surprised by how engrossing it is just listening to these people talk.
Lenlo
Makes me sad, just like Berserk. Got an entire shelf dedicated to it but its just so slow. stupid boat.
Lenlo
Vagabond was phenomenal, but its been on hiatus for years now hasnt it
Kaiser Eoghan
....well without spoiling towards the middle of that rakugo episode and all throughout during that middle part, my opinion on Yotaro's character went far up.
Kaiser Eoghan
Struggling to remember the name of that josei samurai manga from the 90s (or earlier 2000s), had a gender bending theme.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've already read kenshin and vagabond, I loved shigurui death frenzy and sword of the stranger but found samurai champloo uneven. Theres a kagemusha manga but I haven't read it and I've yet to see/read blade of the immortal.
Kaiser Eoghan
At a glance I'll go against the grain and say I think demi-chan is funnier than konosuba, going on one episode of each.
I've been watching a fare share of samurai films in the last two years and lately so I'm open to wathing more anime/reading manga dealing with samurai.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Total users: 33

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