Posted by psgels on 16 June 2012 with categories: Fate/Zero

After nearly finishing this series, one thing that surprised me is that Kotomine Kirei didn’t really turn into such a psychotic villain. In fact for me he’s one of the most interesting characters in this second season in the way he’s searching for something to fill his doubts with. I’d much rather label Kiritsugu as the psychopath, especially after what happened in this episode.

But that definitely was a great cliff-hanger at the end of this episode. Although that does leave me to wonder: Tohsaka Tokiomi wanted a wish that would require to rewrite the laws of reality right? If such a wish is possible, then why can’t Kiritsugu’s wish of wanting to save everyone come true? To take the boats example: why not use magic to fix both holes? I get what this episode was going for in that Kiritsugu’s wish was way too naive, but if you’ve already gone over nine thousand multiple times, then this seems a pretty strange place to stop. Also, why did the grail appear, even though there were still some people fighting over it?

In any case, the action scenes were all great here, although the fight between Saber and Berserker felt a bit underwhelming, considering most of happened off-screen, and we still don’t really know why he became Berserker. Kiritsugu vs Kotomine was very well directed though, and I liked a lot how professional both were.
Rating: *+ (Great)

32 Responses

  1. Anca says:

    I assume it can’t come true because of that thing someone said earlier that someone else said was a spoiler (although I’m not sure how): that the grail is tainted because of that dude in that village who was tortured to death, so it always interprets wishes in the worst way possible..

    That said, it was explained better and I haven’t read the VN myself.

  2. tsao says:

    Yea if I remember correctly because I read this novel way way back a long time ago so my memory is a bit hazy, the grail was tainted by angra mainyu and it basically became corrupt in a way where its wishes were basically all hell. And Mainyu basically hated the world and represented all the evils in it so basically the “holy grail” during the fourth war was basically not meant to really grant the wishes, but create suffering. So basically I think that if Tohsaka or anyone else had gotten the grail the same thing would have happened to them since the grail in the first place at the beginning of the story was no longer its “omnipotent wishing device”. I can’t really call Kiritsugu a psychopath since he knows that if he chose his wife and daughter, he would basically kill everyone else in the world and there’s no way he could agree to that considering the manner of thinking he’s always had. He’s sadly the tragic hero in this story and you can’t help but feel bad for everything that has happened to him considering he really wanted to save the world.

  3. IronZeta says:

    There was a dude that was sacrificed because his village believed he was the personification of all the world’s evil Angra Mainyu, and he was summoned as Servant Avenger in the third war. He was killed and his soul was added to the Grail like all Servants, but because he was the personification of the wish for all the world’s evil to be personified in one person, the Grail interpreted his soul as a wish and granted it, so now Angra Mainyu (All the World’s Evil) is in the Grail and is twisting it to interpret all wishes in the worst way possible.

  4. anonymous says:

    Repost from 4chan

    the boat explaination works best
    in his wish he’ll kill half the world to save half the world
    kill half of them to save half
    kill half of them to save half
    in the end it’ll be just him alive and the world will know peace

    He had always been willing to sacrifice the minority for the majority because he believed the end justifies the means. But the Grail/Angry Manjew demonstrated that there would be no “end.”

  5. Cholisose says:

    While I was absolutely blown away by this episode (HOLY CRAP that Kiritsugu vs Kirei fight… and DAT CLIFFHANGER), I will agree that there were a few things that have left me rather confused.
    I’m hoping there will somehow be a little more revealed for Lancelot? I mean, I think that in the real legend there was that falling away between Arthur and Lancelot (the whole affair with Guinevere ordeal), but Saber being a woman in this story makes me wonder if things played out the same way. I’m not even sure if Lancelot is supposed to be insane, since Kariya had summoned Berserker with an insanity add-on for his magic spell in episode one (IIRC).
    I’m also a bit confused about the Holy Grail in general. The series had made it sound like a master would receive the grail once all his opponents’ servants were killed. And was it always planned from the start that Irisviel would turn into the Grail? If so, doesn’t that kind of mean Kiritsugu would win no matter what, as long as he had kept her with him? Though now Grail-Irisviel seems to just be trolling him with philosophical questions, rather than actually letting him make a wish (though again, there’s still Archer left to kill [and presumably Saber too, if Kirei’s words about all the servants needing to be sacrificed is to be believed]). I guess I’ll have to hope next episode will answer all these questions, because I’m not getting how this system works.
    Regarding Kirei, I have to say I do feel a little bad for him dying without finding any of those answers he was looking for. I mean, he was a terrible guy, but Kiritsugu’s no saint either. It’s a bit complicated, Fate/Zero’s sliding scale of morality. x_x

    • Moriae says:

      Lancelot had a detailed chapter flashback and a lot more revealed in the novels. They cut the scenes for this episode to focus on Kirei vs Kiritsugu. Let’s pray for them to include them in the bluray as they usually do.

      >if Kirei’s words about all the servants needing to be sacrificed is to be believed

      That is only for a wish to open a path to the Root (what Tokiomi wanted). Other wishes need less sacrifices. That’s why Gilgamesh agreed to give the grail to Kirei.

  6. Dr. Pest says:

    Problem with this series is that it is too special to make it really fit the 20 minute episode scheme. So many things you will only see when the blue rays got released. They added around 40 minutes of new footage to the last season which really improved especially the king’s drinking episode (with Saber, Rider and Gilgamesh) and the part where Gil was analyzing Kotomine which felt in which his guessings about Kotomine’s interest in Kariya felt awkward in the TV version.

    The whole Berserker thing will be explained as well in the upcoming BDs. So if you have enough time and liked the series you should give it a watch when the BD versions will be out in September.

  7. Sacchi says:

    When Irisviel von Einzbern gradually merges with the Holy Grail, Avenger possesses her and controls her.

    During in the final battle between Emiya Kiritsugu and Kotomine Kirei, the Grail gushes out black mud which engulfed both of them. Though both of them entered in a dream like state, the Grail recognize Kiritsugu as the victor. Avenger uses Irisviel to confront Kiritsugu in his mind and asks his wish, however it comes with a heavy price. In his mind, he was forced to confront the fact that his methods will eventually lead to him becoming the ultimate enemy of humanity, equal to Angra Mainyu itself – and, ‘Irisviel’ proclaimed, this path is correct.

    Kiritsugu, now realizing that the Grail is corrupted, he shoots down all his love ones including the illusions of his wife and daughter. As he rejected ‘Irisviel’, Avenger placed a curse on him – to never be free of regret until his painful death.

    Kirei, having went through the same experience, asked Kiritsugu why he rejected the Grail; Kiritsugu’s answer was that it sacrifices too many things for what it gives. Kirei says that he wanted it even so and Kiritsugu, admitting that he didn’t understand Kirei, shot him in the heart.

    From a wikia. Honestly, this episode was great, but all this stuff was left in the dark. The only thing in favor of Fate Zero is Rider asking if the Grail is what Weaver truly believes it is. That’s the only foreshadowing that I can remember.

  8. Spider says:

    Awesome episode. It needed more Berserker/Grail explanations, but it can come with next episode or BDs.
    And… Only great+ for this episode? C’mon. Some episodes of Moretsu Pirates, Kanojo X and others are so much worse and you gave a better rating.

  9. AidanAK47 says:

    Now it’s time to play the “Lets fill in the holes for people who didn’t read the novel” game. Time and time again I heard people saying that the grail business would be explained at the end of the show but from what I remember from the novel it was never quite explained in fate/zero. I didn’t say anything because I wasn’t sure. Anyway…

    In the third holy grail war the Einzbern family cheated and tried to summon the Persian god of darkness, Angra Mainyu in the “Avenger” class thinking he would be amazingly powerful. However turns out that Angra Mainyu was just some man who was living in a town that wanted to be a pure good utopia. However they realised that evil was necessary. So they took some random guy and labelled him all the evils in the world. So whenever something bad happened then it was all his fault. Bad harvest? His fault. Son got sick? His fault. As a result he was a crappy servant and died fairly quickly. His soul entered the grail and the grail misinterpreted as a wish “Form someone to embody all the evils of the world” and it begin creating this individual who tainted the grail into a hell spawning device. This thing is currently inside the grail and wishes to be born into the world.

    As for Kiritsugu’s wish of saving everyone the Grail/Angra Mainyu made it clear. Kiritsugu’s wish is to save the world but he doesn’t know how this could be accomplished. The grail can’t grant a wish if Kiritsugu himself doesn’t even know how. So it saves people in the only way Kiritsugu knows how, picking the majority over the minority. Plus as said before, it will now only grant wishes in the worst way possible.

    Five servants is enough to grant a wish. But if you wish to reach the origin of magic then you need all seven. Of course most participants don’t know this.

    And there was a lot cut out from this episode. Berserker’s battle and back-story were just gone. That’s for the blu-rays I guess. Of course if you don’t want to re-watch the blu-rays then just look of Lancelot on Wikipedia. It’s pretty easy to see why he would be pissed at Arthur.

  10. Souther says:

    I don’t really think it’s necessary to read all the previous replies, full of information that isn’t even in the Fate/Zero novel, when it is pretty clear that the Grail isn’t exactly an instrument for good, just going by what is in the content of the anime itself.

    The rest are just background details for the curious, but I don’t see the point of reading too much about that right now.

  11. Saigo says:

    Angra Mainyu tainted the grail in the third war. The grail usually summon “good” heroes, but some day it summoned a anti hero of the class AVENGER, the servant was weak and was killed, but the grail gets corrupted forever.

    The problem of Type Moon series, is that not all info is in the main series.

    The grail was a “good and pure” artifact-. Now is possesed by Angra Mainyu/ Avenger.

    And it can summon bad heroic spirits like Gille de Rais (caster).

    The actual grial is a being of pure evil-

  12. wicked says:

    You might have misread the Kiritsugu moment. Irisviel was dead the moment she merged with the grail, what’s left was only an image controlled by the corrupted grail.(the black ooze and the evil smiling Irisveil from previous episode). What Kiristugu realized is that the if he had wished for what he originally meant to wish for, the world would very literally die, and his true wish is revealed that the only people that really mattered to him were Iris and Ilya, but it would truly be psychopathic of him to have gone through with his wish knowing the everyone else would die and the grail will only grant his wish through destruction. His killing of his family illusion were gestures symbolic of him rejecting the grail.

    Kirei while may not act psychotic, is truly psychopathic, he doesnt fight for something, rather he does so because his lack of something. Fate/Zero is basically the beginning of his madness, but the sickness was there the entire time, maybe the ending will be more clear of why I said that

    Tohsaka had the only true pure wish, in that his was not truly a wish for an end but rather the act of truly completing the grail itself and connect to the origin. He had no wish for the Grail to achieve, rather all that energy would be used to open the gateway to the Origin, so think of it as an alternate function of the cup rather than wish granting aspect of it.

  13. yokushi says:

    Angra Mainyu and the grail tainting is never explained here.

    That’s the problem with Fate/Zero being a prequel, some things are explained in Fate/stay night novel.

  14. Juno says:

    To add on to what others are saying, more from Fate/Stay Night that was never explained in Fate/Zero about the grail:

    Aside from this 8th Avenger class, another secret had been held from the participants: that the grail was a search for the great sorcery, the origin, and that in actuality, all Masters and Servants were tools to summon it. Masters killing other masters was a rule added on to allow them to be disposed of easier, and leaving the grail to the last master was fine, since the true purpose of the grail didn’t end at the granting of the wish, and more miracles could happen. The grail was made as it was to allow both with the new sorcery… but after the Avenger/Angra Mainyu incident, the grail had already granted a wish, and it was simply using its own power to reawaken and get born in the world as the true evil.

    And while Kirei was definitely characterized very well, I realized from Fate/Stay Night that he wishes the thing to be born into the world because he, himself, feels only pleasure and happiness at pain, as someone who knows only sin and evil might be. His only regret was not killing his fiancee/wife by his own hands, and because he is open to this evil, and yet still believes in his principles of blessings, he feels his only role is blessing anything that wishes to be born into the world, good or evil, like himself. As an answer to justify his own existence in the world, despite being a sinful person. Like the grail. It has every right to exist if God, or whatever the will of the world is, allows it to exist. It is not good or evil. It can only be judged upon having been born, even if it is inevitably born to bore evil. Thus, allow it to be born. Everything after that is up to the judgement of others alive and whether or not it can survive.

    • wicked says:

      It is most certainly an self affirmation the Kirei wanted to see the grail complete in Staynight, though if I remember correctly, you would only know this in the Heaven Feel route. It’s not that he does not know good and evil as he’s raised a member of the church with strict teaching of right and wrong, it’s that his very existence is at odds with the teachings since he can only take pleasure in what is evil. He questions how an evil like him can even be allow to come to pass in the first place, so he wants to see true evil take form

      • Juno says:

        You said it better than I did. Thank you. =)
        Heaven’s Feel is stuck in my mind. I wasn’t expecting it to clear up all the plot holes from the first two routes. I’m so glad I kept reading, even though it took forever to get to that point…
        And I’m glad I finished it before reaching this episode. I would have been confused as all heck. Especially about Kirei’s “death.”

  15. James says:

    Concerning the queries about Lancelot’s grudge against Saber, in the light novel, it was depicted that Saber did not give Lancelot the “honourable” defeat he deserved, and for that he despised Saber so much so that the grudge he had towards Saber was enough to have him getting summoned as a Berserker class. For his ability to turn everything he touches into his own noble phantasm, this is due to his previous life achievement where he used a twig to defeat an enemy. Next, for his cloaking ability, it was said that he disguised himself as the black knight to compete in a chivalry competition and hence, his ability to conceal his identity. That’s as much info as possible regarding Lancelot/Berserker’s ability.

    But this episode was superb! I mean, Kiritsugu vs Kirei was one thing, but the whole psychological part was awesome in a twisted way. It was either to save the people he loved and sacrifice the rest or to sacrifice his wish and lose his loved ones. Man, that was good brain food.

    Last noteworthy thing: Gilgamesh is the most arrogant, conceited and narcissistic anime character yet! God, I like how he goes “I am the one king in this world. Whatever I dictate is justice and the law itself.”

  16. Loz says:

    Awesome show as usual. Not that ive read the VN, but I like how they portray some of the messages in this show. I think in terms of Kiritsugu’s wish, for peace to be obtained somethings got to give, so it would appear the only way you can gain true peace is if nothing is left. (So to gain peace you have to become a villain who destroys everything? Quite the paradox)

    I also really like the theme of Sacrifice.

    If you stop thinking bout the holy grail for a second and just think of the notion that you cant gain everything from nothing. So the grail is always going to be flawed. For example Fullmetal alchemist had the same theme with its equivalent exchange.

    You have to sacrifice something of equal/more value if you want to gain something of equal measure. In this case Kiritsugu obviously values his wife and child more than anything else in the world, but killing all the billions of people in the world isnt worth gaining his 2 family memders.

    I suppose now that I think about it you can make paradoxes out all the characters wishes/actions in this show. Well I cant think of one for Tokiomi Toshaka at the moment, but I sure someone more psychologically minded then myself could find a paradox for him in there.

  17. Hououin Kyouma says:

    Thanks so much for the info guys!! Now most questions about Lancelot and the background/nature of the grail are gone. Still…I find a bit awkward its relationship with Irisviel, indeed; Wasn’t Kiritsugu at advantage by having her with him and knowing the other masters ignore of many of this, before truly winning??

    And hell yeah!! What an awesome ep!! Best 20 mins used for that breath-taking fight depiction, mind-blowing FMA-like plot twist and that cliffhanger… OMG…I rank it waaay better than Kanojo X and Sakamichi no Apollon when respectively preparing for their great ends.

    And again…Archer’s personality managed to fascinate me one last time! That IS having self-esteem…

    • Juno says:

      Whether or not he knew that the Holy Grail would fill, no matter what, he was at an advantage. That was, until Irisviel was kidnapped before truly reaching the point where she would become the Holy Grail.

      Though I don’t think the ending was FMA-like. Kiritsugu wasn’t being given any equivalent exchange for his wish in the end. His wish was just being thoroughly destroyed by his own method of salvation he wished to overcome. The Grail probably COULD have saved humanity if the whole thing with the Avenger class never came to root in the Holy Grail because of the Third Sorcery or whatever it was beyond the gate that made it all-powerful.

  18. some loser says:

    Happy Father’s Day Illya!

  19. Blah says:

    WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE!!!

    STOP SPOILING EVERYTHING ABOUT THE VISUAL NOVEL!!!

    • AidanAK47 says:

      People who haven’t read the visual novel already have almost everything spoilt if they watched Fate/zero up to this point.
      Besides the only ones watching this are those who have read the visual novel or those that never intend to read it.

      • Kuroichi says:

        Mostly true, but you forget of those who had not heard of Fate before this and planned to read the VN once Zero is over…

        • wicked says:

          You know, I dont think the stuff that’s spoiled here really spoils anything for Staynight.

          You found out through Kiritsugu that the Grail’s ability to grant miracles is, more or less, a lie. The Grail is evil, that’s what’s been established here. Whether or not you knew it was Avenger that tainted the grail in the previous war, it matters not. If you were to play the VN after Fate /Zero you would have known the Grail is evil, it really doesnt spoil much of anything, because and people may disagree with me here, but granting wishes through grail is really not that big of a deal in Staynight, certain not to Shirou.

          and Kirei’s character. Yeah, that guy is not exactly chatty about himself through most of Staynight. In fact, if you only played the fate route, you’d be just as confused about his actions. While He’s an important part of Heaven’s feel, and you’ll know more about him, it wont impact the story itself one way or another to know that he has existential problems. Heaven’s Feel is a situation entirely on its own, he doesnt exactly have control in it

  20. Leica says:

    Wasn’t Tokiomi’s idea to sacrifice every single servant and get to Akasha that way?

  21. Jack says:

    One of the best anime episodes I’ve seen in quite some time… Kiritsugu vs. Kirei was simply perfect, but I also liked how anticlimatic the end of Kariya/Berserker was: truly, this pair’s story was only sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    I also like how, deep down, the “King of Kings” is nothing but a thug… I mean, the way he’s acting with Saber, he’s basically a rapist.

  22. Stars says:

    Most incredible episode of FZ so far, this show is insanely epic.

  23. mnk says:

    i thought lancelot’s rage is a result of arturia’s clouded ideology of rulership; described by iskander

    • wicked says:

      It’s more detail reveal in the novel that Lancelot was warp by guilt and the circumstances that led to his downfall, which was a situation where all sides are righteous in their action, yet it only led to tragedy to all sides. Arturia cannot blame him from loving Guinevere because she herself cannot give Guinevere the same, Lancelot cannot blame Arturia for sacrificing Guinevere’s role and heart as a women, because she not only did the same, she did so for the country. He should hate her for ruining Guinevere’s life and forcing him to oppose his king, but he cannot because he know she only does so because the situation force her to, and in her heart she held not grudge, only sympathy and regret toward them. So he has all these rage for the injustice of it all, but no one to direct it to because of reason and his own ideals. He prayed to no longer be a righteous knight, if he was not selfless and understanding, he can direct this rage toward her, and she can do the same to him and truly punishes him. Only then he can find solace in that He was the one that was wrong in all of it, and finally forgives himself.

      Although, he did not get that satisfaction either

Leave a Reply

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Lenlo
Have to say, Flip Flappers ep 5 was pretty good. I love atmospheric settings like that.
Lenlo
Looks like an Epee. The large bell guard, the fact that they are focusing on thrusting attacks instead of slashing (mostly). Fencing is alot of fun. Be prepared for some bruises though, as some people put their full body weight behind their thrusts.
SuperMario
I have one last dumb question, Can you tell what types of blade of Juri in Utena? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGsVSSUv_i0
SuperMario
@Lenlo: the more you described the more I found fencing interesting. I might take a look around my town to see if we have Fencing here (the curse of living in a small town).
Lenlo
Blades are slightly different, yes, but mostly just in their guard and how much they bend. Sabers bend easily, Epee's not so much. Surprisingly Epee is the slowest, because people tend to be more careful. Saber is actually the most aggressive of the blades, atleast at my skill level
AidanAK47
That's all they had to do. Just stay inside and let it pass. But for some weird reason they just keep panicking over nothing.
As far as time/alternate world stuff goes this was ridiculously underwhelming. Just finished another movie called triangle and now that's how you do Time travel mindfuckery.
AidanAK47
@Mario, I am not fond of movies where people make stupid decisions for no good reason. For example:
"We should just stay inside"
"No, staying inside isn't realistic"
WHY IN THE HOLY HELL ISN'T IT REALISTIC.
SuperMario
Showed that movie to a bunch of friends last year and I remembered one of the girl just shut off the movie after 15'
SuperMario
@Aidan: too bad. I found Cohenrent really funny and entertaining. Some of their twists are stupid but I was actually invested in much of their characters. Maybe because I always love movies about a bunch of characters in an isolated setting
SuperMario
@Lenlo: sounds like Epee is the most "all-out-attack" and aggressive one. Their blades are different as well I assume?
AidanAK47
Just watched a movie called coherence and man, what a bunch a pseudo-intellectual garbage that was.
Lenlo
For Right of Way, its basically Person A attacks, Person B parries, Person A hits, Person B hits, Person B gets the point because they took right of way with the parry. Saber and Foil both have that, but Epee does not. Epee is simply "Whoever hits the opponent first, doesnt matter where, whole body is target area"
Lenlo
Theres Saber, Foil and Epee. The main difference is this thing called right of way, but there are other smaller ones like how Saber can hit with the edge and Epee is allowed to hit the entire body, instead of just the chest like Foil
SuperMario
For news, Blood Blockade Battlefront getting second season next year. As it was one of my favorite last year I'm really lokking forward to this second season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: that sounds great. From what I know from fencing there are 3 different types of blade right? So what are the differences between them? (Fencing 101 here)
Kaiser Eoghan
Although a fantasy sports thing could also generate interest, such as combining sports together to create something totally new.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, Fencing was great. Favorite sport ever and it helped me stay in shape in College. I find Epee to be the best blade, mostly cause I fenced it, but its a very intense 3 minutes. Unlike sports like Soccer and such which is alot of sustained running, Fencing is 3 minutes of Dont-Stop-Moving then wait till next match. Gets really fun once you figure out your own style.
SuperMario
haha, I wouldn't mind either if each episode focus on a single sport/ character/ country. Or even the positive aspects like role models, sports inspirations and stuffs
Lenlo
That Olympic anime sounds great.
Kaiser Eoghan
And it would be a good excuse to have characters of multiple backgrounds included too.
Kaiser Eoghan
Could be an 13 episode ova series with 48 minute episodes, and if its to be an ensemble character drama you could have 10 minutes to a each character (the ones being focused on in that episode) in each episode.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah yes, aswell as cheating it could also get into "stage parenting", "abuse", "Disabilities" and also the general politics of sports, the backroom stuff.
SuperMario
I'll be the first in line if that olympic anime ever come out. Could be interesting to see the interactions between athletes in different sports, and then fans/athletes/coaches relationship, then the gold rush, doping... So much to talk around to
Kaiser Eoghan
I don't think theres ever been a manga about hurling either. Hey heres an idea, someone do an ensemble drama anime that deals with the olympics, fit in multiple sports that way.
SuperMario
Personally I find Australian football much more exciting than rugby. Or crickets.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ha! Interesting that you mentioned Gaelic football, because in Aus we have AFL (Australian Football League), that really similars to Gealic Football to the point sometimes we have the 2 national teams compete each other with modified rules
Kaiser Eoghan
Hmm, lets see, sport under-represented in anime? Fencing, golf , Gaelic football, bowling, boat racing.
SuperMario
Hey, fencing is actually really cool. How did you like it Lenlo?
SuperMario
You have your point there Topgavin, as I clearly remember many instances where players' legs, backs or even necks got snapped during rugby's tackles. But in regards to Rugby I never really care about it. That and car racing
Lenlo
Its mostly the type of injuries you get that differ I think. Football you get concussions and broken bones and such, while in Rugby you probably get alot of bruises and cuts. Granted I have played neither, I was a Soccer man in highschool and fencing in College
Lenlo
American football has alot of rules, and really is just a bunch of millionaires running around chasing a ball. Rugby however, as Topgavin said, has no pads so when you get hit you get hit HARD
AidanAK47
I never ceases to surprise me just how high and mighty visual novel fans can be over Mosaics present in localized games. I mean they are literally complaining about not seeing genitalia yet the way they phrase it, it's like they are fighting against great injustice. If these VNs were Nukige they might have a point but in most cases the sex scenes in question are pointless and shoehorned in.
Topgavin
@Mario Rugby is more extreme *because* it has no protective gear. No hiding behind helmets and cushioned shoulder pads when ya get bowled over.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm no expert but isn't American football a variation of Rugby? And I believe american football is more extreme, considering they have to wear helmets, protection gears and all that
Lenlo
I dont think theres alot of manga about it because its simply not that popular outside the US. As far as it being a battlefield, eeeeh? Not really? You want a battlefield watch Rugby.
SuperMario
I can think of other cool sports that could be interesting to see in anime: Kick Volleyball (Sepak takraw), Bossaball (combined soccer, volleyball in a trampoline), or in the same vein of skate figures this season, why not pole dancing competition???
Anonymous504493
What other sport is cool and popular that remains original to write about by now? There isn't a lot of manga about it compared to anything else.
Anonymous504493
American football looks like a battlefield with a visible battleline and everything. Id like it if there wasnt so many darn commercials.
Lenlo
I mean, its a sport. Far cry from best, but its definitely a sport.
SuperMario
@Vonter: or maybe because american football IS the best sports ever?
Kaiser Eoghan
@Vonter: Most likely due to the middle section of the original anime being the most popular bit.
Vonter
Can someone explain me how Cobra, is apparently getting an anime around some sort of space american football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54kNWPr43zE
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not safe enough a film for me to properly recommend. Even to exploitation fans, they might find it too slow others would be too sensitive to it. Really una vita violenca, mamma roma, accatone, hawks and sparrows are what Pasolini is really about.
SuperMario
Now that you watched Salo, would you recommend the film to other people? I personally think it's a masterpiece but it's one of the title that I think people would break up with me if I show them this movie
SuperMario
@Kaiser: even him as a director, both Braveheart and Apocalypto don't do much to me, will see if Hacksaw Ridge going to change my mind (but I'm not to fond with war movies in general). La Notte is in my sooon-to-watch list for years, haha
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Mel Gibson as a director, not as an actor =)
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Thats why I prefer the neo-realist/quasi-neo-realism stuff as it deals with the worse off in society. But Antonioni was the master of being able to do films about angsty well-off people, L'aventura, the passenger and La notte for example
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Its not so much that I dislike post 50s fellini moreso I feel that his throw everything at the screen and hope what sticks method can be hit or miss.
SuperMario
While I don't really mind his later stuffs because he was masterclass, I have a pretty hard time for Paolo Sorrentino's later works. The thing is I don't care much about the high class society so everything is just ridiculously over the top and glamour and I'm tired of it.
SuperMario
I haven't watched nights of cabiria but I did watch La Strada and boy, I was sad for few days after watching it. Fellini mentioned that he was inspired to make this movie when seeing a woman pushing a cart from behind. The film really carry that sense throughout its running
SuperMario
Michael Haneke put Salo in his top 10 films. Quite understandable when you think about it. Still for me one of the movie that affected me deeply.
SuperMario
I really admire Elle for its ability to maintain its sharpness because under other inexperienced directors it could easily becomes a mess. Mel Gibson, really? He's one of the few actors that I absolutely dislike
SuperMario
@Kaiser: The Red Turtle remains one of the the most refreshing time I had this year in cinema, but then again I haven't watched much films lately. Agree with you on Sonia's performance, and I still think they could cut out the first 20' of the film because it feels out of place compare to the rest of the film
Kaiser Eoghan
Debating whether to bother catching up on I am a hero or watching the film adaptation. I haven't read it since they got rid of that one female character.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I've a feeling you'll like nights of cabiria, Fellini was cranking out some solidly effective social-realist dramas in the 50s before he fell into self-indulgence.
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I have that sound euphonium compilation film downloaded, I should get to that sometime.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also finally watched Salo, I ended up meeting it pretty much halfway. Some parts still retain the ability to effect a modern viewer, having seen his other works though its crazy just how different Salo is to them.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Seeing I, daniel Blake tomorrow and rogue one in a few weeks.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I hope Mel Gibson and Isabelle huppert win at the next oscars.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the red turtle for its visual style of storytelling and animation even if I didn't get as emotionally attached to it as others did. I also watched Aquarius nd was pretty much blown away by Sonia Braga's performance. Elle is now one of my favourite Verhoeven films and its a miracle he managed to maintain such a great balance successfully throughout the film.
SuperMario
I don't care for the sequel of Code Geass at all. Why Spice & Wolf still hasn't got season 3 though is what really bugged me. From what I know their manga and LNs are selling very well
Anonymous494677
I wonder why that is...
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, they were always milking code geass though what with those bajillion-million-billion manga spinoffs.
Kaiser Eoghan
Still say I was more fond of the character chemistry in spice and wolf as opposed to everything else.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'll likely pass on the code geass sequel, the memory I have of it has already led to its appeal dimishing for me, I don't want to ruin things further watching an un-neccesary followup. Still avoiding utawerumono's second season for same reasons.
AidanAK47
After all there are things which need sequels and things which don't. And Code Geass never needed a sequel after R2's ending. Giving something a sequel can just ruin the conculsion of the orignal series. Case in point. Eureka Seven Ao. Remember that? Cause you shouldn't. Because it was terrible.
AidanAK47
Honestly I would have preferred Spice and Wolf Season 3.
AidanAK47
So...is anyone gonna mention that Code Geass is getting a sequel?
....Because Code Geass is getting a sequel.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am watching it as well. But I am a bit behind because I am watching the funimation broadcast dub. It's a very good guilty pleasure. I don't find it quite as funny anymore but it's still pure dumb fun.
SuperMario
@Anon487524: I'm still following it and it still remains a fun show to watch. I love the way they do the fan-servicey completely straight.
Topgavin
@anon I'll admit to watching it. While it is very simple and follows the sport anime formula religiously, it's still a blast to watch every week. This is also helped because you have no expectations for it before watching other than "oh god what's gonna happen this week".
Anonymous487524
Granted, nothing special, just one of those anime whose only worth is being fun to watch without being deep, but Keijo really is fun to watch, easily the best guilty pleasure anime in a long while to me.
Anonymous487524
I started watching it expecting an crappy fanservice anime with nothing of worth, but it ended up being actually pretty fun and awesome to watch.
Anonymous487524
Anyone here seeing Keijo?
SuperMario
What's up with 3-gatsu no Lion? Delayed for a week huh?
Kaiser Eoghan
Checked out Hedeki anno's godzilla re-boot earlier out of curiousity, its a bit plodding/dull at times but sometimes its high camp value played straight is kind of funny, having godzilla evolve during the film was a cool touch and I enjoyed every scene with him and making a Godzilla film today is still very relevant. Not a patch on the old ones though.
Anonymous482380
I think that movie was just so terrible that people made it into a meme. Stuff like "The Entire Bee Movie Except Evey Time They Say 'Bee' The Movie Speeds Up"
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm sorry lmao I had to, it seemed so appropriate a moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
AidanAK47
Fun Fact: The whole Bees shouldn't be able to fly thing is a myth.
Badesh
I think that was just a dry realization...
AidanAK47
@Topgavin, It's a meme to post the entire script of the bee movie in random places?
....I don't get the joke.
Topgavin
For anyone wondering, I think anon just copy/pasted the entire script for the Bee movie. Memes are goin strong
Anonymous479946
According to all known laws
of aviation,


there is no way a bee
should be able to fly.


Its wings are too small to get
its fat little body off the ground.


The bee, of course, flies anyway


because bees don't care
what humans think is impossible.


Yellow, black. Yellow, black.
Yellow, black. Yellow, black.


Ooh, black and yellow!
Let's shake it up a little.


Barry! Breakfast i
Kaiser Eoghan
Actually I think it was up to about episode ten or so I saw.
Kaiser Eoghan
From what I can recall I watched legend of the galactic heroes somewhere past the part with the Caligula guy.
AidanAK47
That is one thing I wonder about the remake. How are they going to make the space battles interesting? Cause for me theres only so many times you can watch tin boxes shoot lasers and explode.
AidanAK47
I didn't like LOGH until the third episode. That's when it started to catch my attention. It also helps that I have a interest in history as the plot of LOGH practically reads like genuine history.
AidanAK47
In my case the overhype didn't kill it for me as I generally try to avoid that. When I walked into LOGH I was under the impression that it would ahve merit but not be for me. After all I heard it was mostly politics and the politics of Gundam bore me to tears. Funny enough the opposite happened. The space battles bored me but the politics got me really interested.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, The problem is that the people who say that something is the best thing they ever seen don't actually mean it. Often it's just hyperbole. When talking we other people fans tend to blow certain things out of proportion unintentionally. Overrated is likely the wrong word but you get what I mean.
leahcimali
@AidankAK47 oh and are you going to write a review about it or because psngel already wrote a review of it you are not gonna write it ?
leahcimali
the problem is trying to rank art . Even comparing a comedy show and a story focus show is clearly impossible. @AidanAK47 do you think the overhype of some hardcore logh fan killed you enjoyment of the show ? Because sometimes when you expect nothing of something you can enjoy it more than when waiting for something incredible.
leahcimali
i hear the same thing from fan of lord of the ring, star wars and game of thrones, star trek ... etc. The hardcore fan of those says that they are the greatest things in history ... but saying there are overated is discrediting the quality of those. Nothing is perfect and again maintening equal quality in a longuer running show is impossible. But having a longer story create a more rich background
LookingForKeys
@Mario Kimi no Na ha is pretty damn good. Watched it while in Japan a couple weeks back. The story has well done surprises, and on the graphics side you can *really* see Production IG worked on it.
leahcimali
I don't think saying logh is overated is a good way to say it. All media with great aclaimed critics or even highly popular show suffer from the fan reaction. If fan claim that it is the best things that they have ever saw and you don't agree, it feels overated. But this is only pure subjectivity. Saying he is greastest thing in history is a way for fan to exprim there love
AidanAK47
However it has been placed on a unreasonable pedestal that nothing could live up to. Eva is sort of in the same boat. So yes it is overrated but that does not mean it isn't great.
AidanAK47
@Leahcimali, if anything is claimed to be the greatest thing in the history of mankind it is overrated. The basic idea that there is a single anime out there which is fundamental and universally better than all other anime regardless of genre or intent is inherently a flawed concept. I do certainly see why LOGH is so highly acclaimed and I believe it is well worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I didn't look into the details of the new LOGH remake. I was planning on doing that when I am doing an anime season preview for it whenever it's going to air next year. For a long anime it does rate highly but even then I am not certain it really needed all 110 of those episodes.
leahcimali
about your comment are you thinking the LOGH anime is overated ? i ask Because you said that there is plenty of anime you consided better .
Anonymous476875
about the remake won't it be a straight adaptation from the manga remake by the artist that made shiki ?
Anonymous476875
AidanAK47 personally i really loved legend of the galactic heroes and it is one of the anime that make one of the biggest impact on me. I found it the best "long" anime that i ever seen (more than 24 ep). But comparing it to anime with shorter format is a bit hard. you can make something that have perfect pacing in 1h30 but it is impossible with a 110 ep anime.
AidanAK47
Either way I am pretty certain that all other isn't crap to me now seeing as I have seen the so called pinnacle. In fact There are plenty of anime I consider better that LOGH.
AidanAK47
There are aspects of its story which wouldn't really work by today's standards.
AidanAK47
And I did it. I watched legend of the galactic heroes. I have slain the white whale of anime. It certainly was interesting to say the least but I think the remake coming is going to have trouble. I am in between giving it a 8 or a 9 but it's clear that LOGH is very much a product of its time.
Kaiser Eoghan
I didn't really care for this weeks flipflappers, the fanservice and also it was even more trigger than I could take.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Gavin@Mario: I'll get round to your name someday but I think this might be my last chance with shinkai.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: That disgaea review made me nostalgic because I remember my friends and I playing it back when it first came out. We found it difficult but were amused by it/liked the characters.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Are the manga posts exclusively for series with only a few chapters translated or series that came out in the past year or so? I've been reading gunka no balthazar and enjoying it enough and think it should get recommendation out there.
Topgavin
Just booked tickets to go see it on Sunday with my little sister. Was surprisingly reluctant but I know she'll like it, I've already seen it but pumped either way.
SuperMario
Your name movie has been showed theatrically here in Aus, I'm planning to rewatch it soon in theatre and then do a review on it. Is that alright with other admins?
SuperMario
so I guess the top 6 will advance to the final are: Otabek Altin (Kazakhstan), Giacometti (Switzerland), Yuri, Yurio, JJ and Phichit? Will be very cool final event haha
SuperMario
At the very least Yuri on Ice shows me how entertaining ice skating can be
SuperMario
@K-Off: have a good trip ahead K-Off. Well, it's still better than Japan (earthquake) I guess
K-Off
Well, heading to Korea tomorrow. What a time to go. In the middle of Korea's biggest financial scandal since the 80s.
Lenlo
Is it just me, or does the Yuri on Ice opening get more colorful and detailed every week?
SuperMario
Badesh, if you like to check out their other songs, give "Tunnels of Love" and "Romeo & Juliet" a listen. Though I just discovered Telegraph Road quite recently, those 2 songs are qmong my all time favorite
SuperMario
I prefer their ealier version when the band was still together (aLCHEMY 1983), but that Rome 2005 was magnificent too. Seriously with this band diifferent live versions feel like another experience... And that song is criminally under-heard in radio too, because of its running time. A crying shame
Badesh
uhh, found it in better quality. now, THAT is a fitting present for my dad :)
Badesh
well that commentator, that sounds like he's in a soccer match, will get on my nerves though...
Badesh
if you're talking about the rome 2005 version... hell, that's some sweet music. i'll inhale that for the rest of the evening, thanks for that
SuperMario
Anyone here listen to Dire Straits? I just in the mood for their music lately. Checked out the band playing Telegraph Road live the other day on youtube and I was completely stunned.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I considered Flip Flappers 3,5,6 to be its best so far so continue on to see if Flip Flappers is your cup of tea or not
SuperMario
For me I have a lot of stuffs to catch up on this time a year, both in terms of anime and in my RL. Time goes fast as hell
Lenlo
Started watching Flip Flappers. Thought I had it figured out, then we got Mad Max going on. I may start liking it more, cause the first 2 eps didnt do much
Lenlo
Its also nearing Thanksgiving in the states and end of semester for University, so those sorts will be busier than usual.
AidanAK47
You are far too young to be reminiscing. You can build a place for a community but you can't force one to come. I for one would think it would be easier to form one if people stopped using the Anon tag. You can change your name with the customize button you know.
Anonymous469664
I remember a time when people other than site admins were regular posters. Those were the days...
AidanAK47
But I suppose watching Westworld isn't exactly a waste of time.
AidanAK47
Downside is that I really don't have a lot of time these days. It's rather annoying. The day goes by and it doesn't really feel like you did anything.
AidanAK47
On the upside, I am nearly finished Legend of the galactic heroes. So when the Remake airs next year I will have a lot to say about it.
AidanAK47
Personally I have been rather busy lately and wanted to finish off a few things. Hence why my posts have been getting later.
AidanAK47
Anyway when there's nothing on the chat box to talk about then of course it dries up.
AidanAK47
You have unfortunate timing.
Anonymous469664
All the chat regulars have left house as well.
Anonymous469664
Four days since a single post.
K-Off
Damn, I don't know if it's the layout/algorithm/mods, but so many subreddits that I used to frequent have gotten watered down as hell. Between the influx of shills and changes to the upvote/downvote system (which doesn't properly convey controversial comments anymore, like 45 upvotes to 47 downvotes. Now it shows only a -2) it's hard to find reasonable debates or find important info
SuperMario
@K-off: and for that book the last time I checked it was $110 for you guys who live US plus free shipping. For us it's $150 not incluing the postage and few weeks delivery.
K-Off
Damn, I didn't realize that it could be that bad elsewhere. The worst experience I had was when I ordered a laser pointer from Switzerland over a forum, and the cunt didn't respond for nearly 4 weeks until I threatened to refund my $250 on PayPal.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Europe. That's the difference.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah I got a dispatch notice saying it's shipping now. I ordered it back in September as well so I don't know why the difference between us.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the days where I used to be relying on waiting for anime dvds to come out locally , looking back they were really overpriced, 35 euro for 4 or 5 episodes.
Kaiser Eoghan
My opinion on FMA alchemist ended up being all over the place because I must have watched 3 episodes every few months of it, then I stopped watching it for a year, got back into it for a few months, abandoned it for months then marathoned 20 episodes in one night to get it finished.
Kaiser Eoghan
See I've been thinking over FMA lately, if you join up the best episodes of brotherhood and the first adaptation you get the perfect show.
Kaiser Eoghan
And yet it would make sense to rewatch it. 2005/2006 were the days where I'd never marathon anything. I've seen the whole show obviously but with massive gaps in between.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, HEATHEN. Though I haven't seen the original fullmetal Alchemist in years. Watched it way back when I started anime. Would be good to pay it a revisit with this.
AidanAK47
@Mario, you actually got a dispatch notice? Cause mine is still waiting and I ordered back in September. Says it's going to dispatch next week but I have heard horror stories about peoples orders getting canceled due to lack of stock.
Kaiser Eoghan
And there I am, reminded that I haven't seen the first full metal alchemist since back in 2006.
SuperMario
Mine is shipping already, take about 2 weeks to get here. Can't wait haha
Total users: 35

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