Posted by psgels on 3 September 2012 with categories: Hyouka

You know what? There is one volume of the light novels left, right? And it’s one continuous story, right? With this episode something dawned to me: Kyoani could be toying with the idea of making a movie for this show, couldn’t they? I mean, I’m not sure how their policy with movies is after they made one for Haruhi, K-On and… Munto, but Hyouka would actually work perfectly in movie-format with its slow pacing. I mean, I’d love to see it, but they’re not going to do a climax of only two episodes.

As for this episode, the mystery in it was completely different from any other episode so far. Oreki didn’t have to solve something weird that was going on, but rather he had to find something to get the attention of a specific person. His final solution was quite creative. It was also a realistic look at symbolism: what kind of symbols would someone understand if one spotted this randomly, and which symbols would just be too obscure?

But this episode was really there to flesh out the cast some more. Oreki and Chitanda got to spend a lot of time together, and Satoshi finally was useful for something. The whole set-up of this episode was also great and down to earth, in the way that everyone had different agendas throughout the whole episode beyond just the main plot. Touches like this show once more that the rest of the cast also have lives and things to do.
Rating: 5/8 (Great)

38 Responses

  1. wicked says:

    definitely finishing all the stories they can in the anthology volume instead of going for the final volume. It’s well set up since the 5th volume is set after their freshmen years, so there’s a time skip for the movie or ova

    • Cytl says:

      Is vol5 really the final one? Some sites list the series as ongoing and others do it as finished so I have this doubt.

      • wicked says:

        he wrote another short story of Kotenbu to publish on a magazine recently, but Kotenbu series as a whole has not had any information or indications of new volume coming out, though it is not announced that it ended either. He’s got at least one more volume of the ordinary citizen series that he has to complete, and I’m still waiting on that. It’s been more commercially successful before the anime of hyouka

        He’s been rather popular it seems, his other mystery book, Calculation, was adapted into a movie

        • Cytl says:

          Very complete info, gotta look for that movie. Also I saw that he wrote a two volume manga series (too bad it hasn’t been scanlated yet).

          • wicked says:

            Calculation is more traditional mystery, though i have little faith in Japanese movie adaptations remaining faithful to the source material.

            The manga Spring’s strawberry tart limited case is an adaptation of the first volume of the ordinary citizen series of the same name, consist of little mundane mysteries like Hyouka, but I like the characters in that series better

  2. Kaiser Eoghan says:

    I think a movie or ova followup is precisely what this show needs, were it to end on a random episode with no continuation I think that could sour it a bit.

  3. UltimateReaper says:

    What I love about Hyouka are it’s uniqueness and ability to always bring something new to the table. Great episode, loved it, don’t know about movies or any of that, but as long as I see the conclusion to the story from its original source I’ll be happy.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      Unique? The plot device of a boy and a girl getting accidently locked in a shed is one as old as anime itself. Same with new years shrine visit episodes are as well. The only different thing was Oreki had to figure a smart way out.

      • UltimateReaper says:

        It might have been a bit cliche and redundant since one of them could have just hid and come back and such, but this definitely had an air unlike any other anime I’ve watched. Anyways you kind of negated your own comment, there was a difference wasn’t there? And I meant different for this particular anime. That happens when you’ve got a culture. How about Hollywood movies? Full of endless cliches, some handled in new ways from time to time.

        • wicked says:

          I wonder if either of them would leave the other in the cold. Oreki is logical enough to be able to make that decision, but he’s hardly logical when it comes to Chitanda. I can just see Chitanda disagree with that plan too “because, what about Oreki-kun” I can also see her get distracted afterwards

          • TheUltimateReaper says:

            That is something quite curious.
            I hadn’t even considered those emotions. Thats some good input man.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          It shows that the writer is borrowing heavily from standard clichés and attempting fuse them with some mystery so that it makes it seem different. So this was pretty much a guy hiding the fact that he made a standard new years/festival episode. If you are to call this unique than I guess you better plough through some harems as I can promise you will find an episode or twenty with this same situation. So I guess those harems were unique as well then.

          • TheUltimateReaper says:

            Yeah but I liked those episodes, even psgels said it brought a new light to it. I see this episode the same way, the writer has borrowed cliches but I think he’s handled them pretty well. It’s no worst than what Wanted did with “the normal office worker” type of character, or what Avatar did with Native Americans or Pocahontas. Sure it’s a cliche, but if it bothers you thats okay, if it doesn’t thats okay too.

  4. Taara535 says:

    Sorry everyone, but I thought this episode was plain bad. The scenario made little sense, and they had little character development to counter-balance how bad the plot was.

    SPOILER PAST HERE

    There were many ways for them to easily get out of that locked room without “appearing together” (which yet again is so dumb given they had only been stuck in that shed for a minute when they could have called for help! How could people misunderstand that?!). Here’s a simpler solution they could have taken to even avoid that “problem”. One hides as the other calls for help. The person who called for help would be let out by someone who presumably would then close up the shed. This first person would then walk away for 3ish minutes and then come back. They would non-nonchalantly open the shed again (it’s not like people were paying attention to it) and let out the other person.

    Simple.

    Instead, they contrived this elaborate and silly plan while they froze their butts off.

    This is a huge let down from the school festival arc, which was much better done.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      I thought this as well. While I do think people will misunderstand regardless of how it looked.(Just say Chitanda was found in a shed alone with a boy and it sounds suspicious)
      However I thought that Oreki could easily hide while she calls for help as well.

    • Puran says:

      I thought of that as well! But they way they did it was also interesting.

      But I disagree with you on Chitanda’s concerns. They were valid. Especially when taking into consideration that she is from a well known family (which we’ve seen before, but this episode made sure to reinforce it).

      Example:

      “Did you hear? Chitanda was found locked in a shed with a boy!”

      “What were they doing there?”

      “Nothing apparently, they got locked in by mistake”

      “Right….”

    • UltimateReaper says:

      I consider this episode laid back, sure, sure, they could have done that. But Oreki doesn’t think like a normal human being, and Chitanda… well, most of her character development has been later rather than sooner so it’s hard to know where her head is at.

      At anyrate, I don’t think it was a bad episode. It was fun, and by fun I mean something enjoyable, if your going to nitpick how bout the fact that Oreki didn’t shout when they were closing it? Before Chitanda told him not to shout, he didn’t know, one normally would shout.

      Lets just say that they were cold and didn’t weren’t thinking as they should have been, Oreki is a sloth so thats covered.

      Listen, no one cares about the truth more than me, if everything can have a proper explanation, then nothing is inherently wrong with the story. This could have happened to people, in the same way or shape in real life. Whether or not it makes for a good story is irrelevant. People constantly judge anime or anything created by what they believe to be “good story telling” but in real life things aren’t always note worthy, sometimes dumb things happen.

      Now I’m sure all lot of you will not understand this or think me mad, but this is my conclusion. This sort of scenario actually adds more realism to the situation. Truth is stranger than fiction, crazy things happen in real life, put it into story form and you might say… man what bad writing, but it really happened. Do you get my point here?

      In other words you’re all annoying and too caught up illusion. If you can’t accept the episode for what it was I conclude that you are missing out on reality quite a bit. You want to go in depth we can go in depth into why this is not a bad episode. We can also go into depth into how it could have been better. Just be prepared to face new thinking.

      • TheUltimateReaper says:

        I’d like to apologize in advance for getting so swept up in emotion, but my point I think is valid. I just don’t think it will be a popular one.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Don’t worry, you always get swept up in emotion considering that your posts are often nothing more than that.

          But let me ask you this. Citanda has the intelligence of a puppy (Quite literally as in the school festival arc when a girl held out a hand in a paw gesture and she did it) so we can’t honestly expect anything out of her. So it’s logical that she didn’t think herself and depended on Oreki like the imbecile she is. But how does this make Oreki look? I am going to quote Rider from fate/zero on this
          “Using a simple method to accomplish something impressive far outshines using a complex method to achieve the same thing”
          He we have our genus deductor Oreki who was so fixated on getting out in a clever way that he completely ignored the obvious solution. That just makes me look down on his character and prove that his experience with getting the film mystery wrong truly did teach him nothing.

          • rubix22 says:

            @ the quote “Using a simple method to accomplish something impressive far outshines using a complex method to achieve the same thing”

            You know, I’m reminded of all the suspense/mystery shows I’ve watched where the killer hardly ever runs up to his victim and stabs him. There always has to be some kind of trick.

            In the same vein, I suppose you could apply that in this situation too. It was even highlighted by Oreki and Chitanda that there were easier solutions (breaking down the door/calling someone over and handling any rumors afterwards).

            I suppose this is an instance of Oreki ‘showing off’. I recall previously that in Oreki’s solutions, he doesn’t really try to come up with the correct answer, but rather ‘an answer that would satisfy Chitanda’s curiosity’. Granted Chitanda didn’t outright say she was curious, but Oreki seemed to jump at the chance to try and impress her.

            I suppose another quote would go something like:

            “If you’re going to do something, might as well go all out.”

            The ‘mystery’ itself became less about ‘how can I get out of this shed’ and more about ‘how can I get this person’s attention’. And The solution created was only obvious to two people (Oreki and Satoshi). In that regard, the solution fit the criteria of the ‘mystery’.

          • AidanAK47 says:

            “You know, I’m reminded of all the suspense/mystery shows I’ve watched where the killer hardly ever runs up to his victim and stabs him. There always has to be some kind of trick.”

            Of course there is. If the murder was as simple as someone running up and stabbing someone then it wouldn’t be a mystery. It’s just a murder. It’s too easy to figure out who the murderer is if they go with a simple plan like this. The reason there’s a trick is because the murderer wants to get away with killing someone while leaving behind as little evidence as possible.

            Though you may be correct in that Oreki was trying to show off. But it would be nice if they mentioned the simpler solution.

          • TheUltimateReaper says:

            Well I’m emotional! And very rational! Mix the too and its quite explosive. Well I don’t really look down on him. First of all he believes correct solutions to be chance, there is the fact that he is a sloth, and it could have just slipped his mind. *shrugs* nobody is perfect. We all end up doing things others would look down on.

          • TheUltimateReaper says:

            two*

      • Puran says:

        “Truth is stranger than fiction, crazy things happen in real life, put it into story form and you might say… man what bad writing, but it really happened. Do you get my point here?”

        I do, point well made and I think I agree.

        • TheUltimateReaper says:

          I think I love you.
          Thanks for not freaking out, I kind of got swept up there, don’t get me wrong I consider your point pretty solid. This episode could have been handled much different/gone in a totally different direction.
          I just think it is what it is, and that’s okay, so to speak.

    • wicked says:

      Have you seen Chitanda’s house? She’s like the Paris Hilton of that area. People will probably talk regardless of the explanation. Your plan is probably more sound, though Chitanda would have to be the one waiting in the cold since if she was let out first, she might get hounded by her other duty to socialize, not to mention she’s pretty easily distracted. Oreki probably wont leave Chitanda in the cold by herself.

  5. AidanAK47 says:

    “With this episode something dawned to me: Kyoani could be toying with the idea of making a movie for this show, couldn’t they?”

    Not to toot my own horn here but I do believe I was the one to bring that up on the shoutbox.
    But man, I am going to be so smug if it turns out to be true.

    • Kaiser Eoghan says:

      @Aidan:Would you believe I was going to tell him that very thing myself that I was also one of the people talking about it in the shoutbox.
      On further thought I’m not sure now about this, I didn’t really feel all that bothered looking into the Haruhi movie and munto was terrible so in my head the words Kyoani+movie don’t sound positive.

      • Scruffy says:

        The Haruhi movie was terrible???? What movie did you watch? The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya was an awesome movie! As a fan of the franchise it was certainly the best thing done to it and almost (note I said almost) redeemed them for inflicting the “Endless Eight” on us. The K-On movie was nicely done as well.

        • wicked says:

          I agree, I dont really like the anime series all that much, but the Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya was excellent

          • Kaiser Eoghan says:

            That was probably it, I didn’t like alot of the series so I never checked out the movie.

          • wicked says:

            Suzumiya was one of the first light novels I picked up, and I thought it was pretty original despite the settings looking like the ramblings of a middle school dreamer. The author makes it work. but the 2nd series was just not as good as the first even without the dumb endless august thing that they pulled

        • TheUltimateReaper says:

          The only thing I didn’t like about the movie/series was the lack of plot. I always wished it had more plot. The ending felt.. soft, to me, but other than that it was pretty well done, I enjoyed it.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Scuffy, if you read his post again you will notice that he didn’t say that the Haruhi movie was terrible. He said that the “Munto” movie was terrible. He clearly stated that he wasn’t bothered to check out the Haruhi movie.

          Though Kaiser I do suggest you check it out. It’s the best of the series. So much so that even Psgels said something good about it.

          • Kaiser Eoghan says:

            @Aidan:It was the comedy, school life bits and slice of life moments I liked in Haruhi, I’m not big on the mystery/sci-fi element. I liked the male characters in it but Haruhi herself was too unlikeable for me and thats down to me not liking Aya Hirano’s voice acting. The endless eight part of the series just made me give up on Haruhi.
            Maybe I’ll pick up the dvd of disappearance in the dub or read the book instead.
            Aidan is right though scruffy I only mentioned not liking Munto.
            The K-on movie actually to be fair I did enjoy, I was kinda concentrating on the negative a bit too much back there.

  6. Kaiser Eoghan says:

    I think I remember talking to bunny about this episode in the shoutbox recently that this episode didn’t even feel like a mystery at all and I agree with him on that. I know they have to follow the novels and all but I think these final episodes could have done more character work than they have been but thats probably just wanting more than already offered.

  7. Arno says:

    For three episodes I have had the impression that the creators of this show are on holidays.

    The plots are totally neglectable. Character development has regressed (even Oreki is no longer Oreki).

    I could not finish this one. Loss of time.

  8. sato says:

    So… how’d they fit that purse through that tiny crack?
    But if they were gonna be making holes at all (and I thought Chitanda was actually against damage), why didn’t they make a crack near the door handle and nudge the beam out of the way?

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
But that is a decent point. Maybe we should unsticky it tomorrow?
AidanAK47
It is linked in the header.
Anonymous786394
you're currently obscuring the content
Anonymous786394
Rather than sticky the summary you should link it in the header
SuperMario
guys, new posts are below the summary right now!
AidanAK47
Too late.
SuperMario
@Aidan: haha alright I'm gladly to do that
AidanAK47
There we go. Forgot how to stick it but then figured it out again.
SuperMario
@Aidan: don't know if you mind but I intend to sticky the yearly summary until the next few days.
AidanAK47
Unless of course you are suggesting there are things about myself that I am not aware of?
AidanAK47
@Anon, No. For if you are aware that you lack self awareness then you no longer lack self awareness. You would be self aware. It's sort of a paradox in that in order to know you you lack self awareness you must be self aware.
Anonymous781147
Is it possible to be self aware of your lack of self awareness?
SuperMario
Seiren is worse than I've hoped, but I still want to finish it, along with Demi-chan and Dragon maid
SuperMario
Onihei I will give it another episode but the episodic nature doesn't grab me as much anymore. I will follow Hand Shakers because for Christsake it's just something else
SuperMario
I enjoyed Akiba's trip (still fun to see an anime that inspired by other anime and appeal to anime fans only), Masamune-kun no Revenge (2nd episode wasn't good but the 3rd was alright), Urara and Gabriel Dropout but that's the end of my trip on them
SuperMario
Okay, since we reached the 3rd episodes (man, don't tell me we already passed a quarter of this season already), I'll give you a bit of recap on what I've been following this season:
AidanAK47
Guess we can put that down as one of the most important things a critic needs. Self Awareness.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I won't deny having an inflated sense of worth but Nostalgia blindness? You are reaching man.
Anonymous777074
Just like you :)
AidanAK47
Anyway I never heard of this guy and he seems like the usually case of Nostalgia blindness and inflated sense of worth. Nothing really worth concerning ourselves about.
AidanAK47
"How can I be pretentious when I mean everything I say?" Oh silly silly fool. Being an idiot doesn't mean you can't be pretentious.
Kaiser Eoghan
I bring him up because I feel he'd be more controversial than Tenka seiha/aroduc or digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
Roriconfan/thatanimesnob/Peter Malousis: [link src="https://www.youtube.com/user/ThatAnimeSnob
http://youtube.wikia.com/wiki/ThatAnimeSnob
https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1483389"]
SuperMario
I don't know who would that be either Kaiser? A V-blogger?
Lenlo
Who?
Kaiser Eoghan
We talk about digibro on here, yet we never talk about Rorico.
Anonymous774043
I agree
Anonymous773640
Shitcunt is the greatest anime villain of all time. End of argument.
Lenlo
Best villain was clearly JJ. JJ is actually the best character for every category.
Lenlo
@SuperMario, I just felt there was some social context to the discussion with the boss that I missed.
Kaiser Eoghan
Bah, haven't you heard, the best villain category was for the dictionary in Lost passage, must have been bastard-hard effort getting that compiled =P
AidanAK47
To sum that up, don't bully my waifu or I will end you.
AidanAK47
@Mario, She only killed him once and tortured him for information once. Both times because he had something which showed he had a connection to the witch. Besides, the anime mainly showed off her good points but she still has a crushing inferiority complex and a rather delicate mindset.
SuperMario
Oh I have one. How about Lovepon? lol
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it was sarcasm actually, if we do it again next year we might cut down some categories. But I totally agree that we're lacking of good villains. Biba and that teacher are the worst as they actually dragged their shows down.
Topgavin
Honestly though there's been a real lacking of good villains last year. I hear some guy from Jojo was pretty good, but other than that they've either been okay or lackluster. Makes you wonder how FMA:B managed to get so many villians right in so many ways when shows usually fail to get even 1 half as good.
Topgavin
@Supermario Biba or Teacher-dude from Erased surely...
SuperMario
Maybe we should include the best villain next time, haha. I honestly don't know who to pick...
SuperMario
oh Rem, that demon girl who tried to kill Subaru many times over. Why is she the best girl again?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I watched Moonlight last night in cinema and it was great. I had high expectation for that and it pretty much delivered. Also Janelle Monae was so freaking hot.
SuperMario
OMG, that 3rd episode of Rakugo was so greattttt. @Lenlo: don't need to understand the meaning of the rant thou, Yotaro doesn't understand either
Kaiser Eoghan
Think of the fine children/breeding stock Aidan and rem would offspring =P
Kaiser Eoghan
Dye their hair, make things confusing ;)
AidanAK47
@Anon, hahahaha, cool joke bro.....
...............................Don't make me destroy you.
Lenlo
The one with red hair of course
Anonymous765953
rem? who's that?
Lenlo
Having read the books, theres afew inconsistencies and I dont like some of the choices for actors.
Kaiser Eoghan
*couldn't
Kaiser Eoghan
Buh buh but Aiiiidan you still have the koe no katachi movie and thaaats kyoani =P But lol phantom world was so poor I couldn't get past the second episode. A shame that they could go with the darker spin the author ended up apparently going for in later volumes.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I am currently eh on it as well. Only at the second episode so far. I find it interesting but it has a lot of things that turn me off.
Lenlo
7 YEARS I SAT ON THAT BOAT!

Still havnt finished Flip Flappers. I like it, its pretty, each episode is different, but I can barely tell what the over-arching narrative is and thats a big deal to me
Lenlo
ITS REAL
Lenlo
BOAT TIER
Lenlo
@Aidan, Series of Unfortunate Events was eh. I wasnt a big fan of the TV adaptation, though I did like Neil Patrick Harris
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: BOAT TIER lmao.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats why I LOVED flippflappers so much, where else can I get THAT anywhere, totally its own thing/beast.
Lenlo
My big ones for the year were easily Rakugo and Re:Zero. Disappointments, biggest one is Berserk. Ive been following it for years, have the entire series on my shelf, and I watched it like a captain going down with his ship
Kaiser Eoghan
At the same time well, yes its still good to see a non-highschool story in ANYTHING.
Kaiser Eoghan
Ah, you see I don't really award points to an anime doing something unique to anime, I judge by all mediums as a group/whole. 91 days may be a mafia drama, kabaneri may be a zombie show but theres already plenty of those in the world elsewhere.
Kaiser Eoghan
I could see myself getting some oldskool charm out of alderman if I watched it. I was waiting for yuri on ice to be dubbed. Drifters for all its problems was some of the most fun I've had in ages.
Kaiser Eoghan
The only thing I saw that I truly abhorred though was the new shinkai film.
Kaiser Eoghan
Most of the other stuff I didn't really bother watching. Its pointless for me to shit on about 91 days and re:zero because I was guaranteed to dislike both before seeing either.
Kaiser Eoghan
Biggest disappointments for me were erased , berserk and joker game. Whereas my surprise was lost passage. My favourites of the year were flippflappers and Rakugo. I wanted Kabaneri and dimesion w to save anime and bring back some oldskool charm but that didn't happen.
AidanAK47
Alright I spent over an hour formatting this thing and now I am knackered. Readers, this summery is over 23 pages long so be prepared as this thing is pretty huge. Don't say you were not warned.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Watch it. I bet it will be up your alley.
Kaiser Eoghan
Thats a problem with adaptations, put a voice on certain characters and it can become irritating.
Kaiser Eoghan
And to be fair on scums wish, that it deals with the sex bit in a teen story, well that makes it more daring and thats points for it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Largely stayed away from that series as I assumed it was for young children.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Additionally the relationships in that manga got too convoluted, the comedy stands out worse in the anime too. Still though I DO dig the idea behind the show of two kids who are in a fake relationship.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, you think that's hard to watch try watching Netflix's A series of unfortunate events. Because boy do I want to brutally murder the banker and his family. That may sound severe to you but trust me, you will feel likewise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You were right about it being harder to watch scums wish than read it. I want to hit the twin tails girl with a hatchet.
Kaiser Eoghan
I'm laughing now remembering an old ANN review where they stated golgo 13 was a stress reliever for 30 something Japanese office workers, I get that so much more now lol
Kaiser Eoghan
But seriously violence in fiction, anime/manga included is so damn therapeutic.
Kaiser Eoghan
As such I genuinely was able to enjoy the new M night shaylman flick lol
Kaiser Eoghan
Venting here largely because I can, I now imagine the teenage/twenty something audience members at horror/thriller films as the victims in the films, makes it more tolerable to deal with their existence in the cinema.
Lenlo
I cant help but feel theres some cultural aspect I am missing to the Rakugo rant scene. Makes me sad.
Lenlo
Rakugo, continues to be great and gets another time skip. Im always surprised by how engrossing it is just listening to these people talk.
Lenlo
Makes me sad, just like Berserk. Got an entire shelf dedicated to it but its just so slow. stupid boat.
Lenlo
Vagabond was phenomenal, but its been on hiatus for years now hasnt it
Kaiser Eoghan
....well without spoiling towards the middle of that rakugo episode and all throughout during that middle part, my opinion on Yotaro's character went far up.
Kaiser Eoghan
Struggling to remember the name of that josei samurai manga from the 90s (or earlier 2000s), had a gender bending theme.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've already read kenshin and vagabond, I loved shigurui death frenzy and sword of the stranger but found samurai champloo uneven. Theres a kagemusha manga but I haven't read it and I've yet to see/read blade of the immortal.
Kaiser Eoghan
At a glance I'll go against the grain and say I think demi-chan is funnier than konosuba, going on one episode of each.
I've been watching a fare share of samurai films in the last two years and lately so I'm open to wathing more anime/reading manga dealing with samurai.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Total users: 47

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