Posted by psgels on 10 September 2012 with categories: Hyouka

This was an interesting episode. I mean, movie or no movie: the series is ending next week, so Kyoani can pour even more budget than usual into it. The result is a really well animated episodic story with weird build-up.

I mean weird build-up in the way that this episode on one hand develops Satoshi, it explains his actions of some of the previous arcs, and on the other hand it suddenly turns Mayaka and Satoshi into a couple. Now, I know that my memory isn’t the greatest with these kinds of things… but have we ever seen hints to that twist before? I mean, it’s not something that blossomed overnight: they’ve apparently been going on for more than a year now. And with the incredible attention to detail that this series has, I find it hard to believe that they’d never hint at this. So did I miss something?

But whatever faults Hyouka may have had there, it made up for it by giving a very different meaning to his part in the school festival arc. What he did there wasn’t jealousy, it was a battle of him trying to win from his obsession. He allowed himself to dabble a bit with trying to solve things, but he never went far into it like Oreki did. It makes much more sense: if he’s such a large sherlock-fan, then why doesn’t he try to formulate theories or brainstorm? Well, that’s why. And that’s also why Oreki’s plan last week went wrong.

Also weird was Chitanda. I mean, the usual progression for a character like her is to done down: as she grows up she becomes more mature in the process. She however is completely different and after the school festival arc, she suddenly got more extreme, acting more and more on her feelings than she already did before. The animators really liked to exemplify that with a particular few scenes.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Excellent)

38 Responses

  1. Jalapeno Bagel says:

    Not exactly sure if Mayaka and Satoshi are a couple or not. Sort of left us on a cliffhanger at the end as far as I could tell. What we do know (and it’s been explicitly noted in the series from the beginning) is that Mayaka has a crush on Satoshi. I guess Satoshi explicitly said he reciprocates her feelings this time around, but he doesn’t want to accept them because he’s afraid of how he’ll change (or revert is a better word).

    as for chitanda, i think she’s quite mature overall, but naive in her thinking. with her family background, she has to be the mature girl for the sake of reputation, but with the classics club, she’s been given more opportunities for her real self to appear.

  2. Qwerty1 says:

    You never caught onto the Satoshi Mayaka thing?

    The basics for it got laid down in episode 2 where Oreki pretty much introduces Mayaka as the girl that’s been crushing on Satoshi since middle school.

    On top of that there are plenty of cues in Mayaka’s behavior around Satoshi. Most recently is how she got all flustered and blushed when he saw her in her outfit on new years, the exact opposite reaction she gave Oreki.

    • animefan34 says:

      For the love of God, how could anyone never “caught onto the Satoshi Mayaka thing”? Besides being explicitly said in episode 2 and hinted over and over, we had the second ending sequence where Mayaka follows Satoshi during the whole thing and blush when she finally handcuffs him! Are you gonna say that you NEVER watched the second ending sequence EVEN ONCE?

  3. Gryph says:

    They’re not a couple yet. Satoshi’s just been leaving Mayaka hanging for a year…

    There’s a large amount of Mayaka/Satoshi foreshadowing leading up to this episode. In fact it was getting to the point where I would’ve been really disappointed if they hadn’t addressed all of the hints they were giving us.

    From the very beginning of their interaction there are strange glances and half conversations between Fukube and Ibara and the reflection of their personalities and relationships is a major sub-plot of the show in my opinion. The back story of the refused chocolate goes a long way to solidify the hints they’ve been dropping…

    Fukube’s reluctance to enter into a relationship because of his personal uncertainties is such a 16 year old boy truism it was almost painful.

    Its been subtle and slow, but so is the rest of Hyouka…

  4. Bunny says:

    satoshi and mayaka have always had a thing so its not just random

  5. vjott says:

    “have we ever seen hints to that twist before?”
    Mayaka and satoshi aren’t a couple but there have been several hints scattered throughout the entire show. From the episode when Oreki introduces Chitanda to Mayaka and said that she’s had a crush on him since middle school to the scene with the two at the end of the Kanya Festa arc leading up to this episode. You should rewatch some of the earlier episodes and the Kanya Festa arc (I suspect you were probably more caught up with the mystery that emerged in that arc).

    “She however is completely different and after the school festival arc, she suddenly got more extreme”
    I don’t think she got more extreme. We’ve seen her anxiousness to be helpful before when she ran around desperately seeking help for her club during the Kanya Festa arc. What we saw here was her trying to fix something that she thought was her fault and she was terribly upset. Given her personality, I would say that her reaction was to be expected.

  6. brianwuzhere says:

    Is Hyouka actually ending next week though? Anime Calendar and ANN both say it’s running for 24 episodes.

    • animefan34 says:

      When is people going to understand that ANN is NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE? And why would anyone go to a site where anime fans are mocked and made fun of anyways?

  7. wicked says:

    It’s pretty much stated the first time you see Mayaka, that she’s crazy about Satoshi. I mean it’s all over the school festival arc and the fillers as well.

    Satoshi and Mayaka is the romance of the novel series really, but it’s really not like you get pages and pages of them looking at each other.

    What the anime does that you dont really get from reading the novel is up the romantic tension between Chitanda and Oreki. In the book they sort of just struck a balance point where Oreki knows he has to and how to deal with Chitanda and Chitanda kind of just going to Oreki because he’s reliable. It’s mainly a “mystery” book first, so it’s likely they’d just maintain this above friend below lover status.

  8. TheUltimateReaper says:

    Actually now that I think about haven’t all of the characters been acting more extreme in this episode? Satoshi finally stopped avoiding the issue with Mayaka, Mayaka was love struck and fiery. Chitanda was consumed with immense feelings and Oreki actually cared about something enough to get him feeling/moving.

    I don’t necessary think being mature means you are more docile, I like to think that it means your more in touch with your true self, and your emotions.

    Sure plenty of hits though it wasn’t anything major.

    Also let me get this straight. Satoshi, was basically depressed about being obsessed with wining/being better/the best since he always failed or that when he did win he felt empty, so he decided to just enjoy life/not be consumed. Yeah?

    Every new episode of Hyouka keeps making me like it more. Looking forward to next week.

  9. sushi55 says:

    whatever guys. Just enjoy the show!

  10. meow says:

    I loved Tomoe’s Valentine message. I didn’t know there was another japanese character that sounded so much like “Ai” (love). Does it really mean “pity”?

    • ronbb says:

      Yes – Tomoe’s message is brilliant, and that word does mean pity or grief. I guess Tomoe’s teasing her own little brother, and Houtarou’s comment to the chocolate – bitter – is also smart to end the episode.

      • meow says:

        Haha. It’s pretty apt. I mean, in the end, the only valentine’s day chocolate he got was from his sister. That Chitanda having a house rule about not giving gifts to people they’re close to. What a tease. So there’s no way to tell the difference?

        Actually, what does that make the Chitandas and the Juumonjis? Chitanda delivered a gift to them. Hmmm…

  11. Ofx360 says:

    Yeah, you definitely missed the hints.
    Mayaka was crushing on Satoshi the entire show. This show does a bit with overt detail, but it also excels at subtle, realistic detail. Normally in anime, if a girl likes a guy, its thrown all in our faces and the girl acts like a moron all the time. But in this show: eye movements, subtle blushes, awkward pauses, weird shuffles responses and reactions. They all build up to show that one character likes another. And throughout the show, they’ve been showing those hints.

    And you may think it’s too subtle, but it think they executed it well. It felt like a realistic interaction between one person that liked someone after getting rejected, and another that has very immature, but, again, very realistic feelings.

  12. Shin says:

    I’m a little shaken you didn’t get the whole Mayaka-Satoshi thing to be honest… It was so wonderful and felt so life-like through the whole series. THAT’s how teenage love goes the way it should. Not that strange horny-kind … thingie.
    The problem with modern teenage romance animes nowadays is, just as Ofx360 said, that they don’t show subtleness at all when it comes to love between said teenagers. And it really, really bugs me… It always feels like a kind of “body-orientated” love, you know? However in Hyouka I feel like the characters are seriously connected.

    Mayaka is really a sweet girl. I’m happy that Satoshi actually feels the same way about her, I’ve never been sure if he’d actually friendzoned her or something. o_o Well he kind of did, while not really. That’s what I mean: Teenagers just are strange like this.

    • meow says:

      Hm. It looks like a potential train wreck though. I sure hope typical teen romance goes a little more smoothly than this. It takes some callousness to be able to literally break up another girl’s feelings in order to avoid a resolution. And there’s some amazing depth and resilience to Mayaka’s feelings to be able to so gracefully accept what Satoshi did. Well, like Oreki, I kind of figured it was Satoshi from the start. Go way back to Mayaka’s introduction scene where Satoshi called Oreki and her their middle school’s best couple due to their constant bickering. I think Satoshi has some serious personal issues to work out before he’ll be ready to accept Mayaka’s feelings but on the other hand, he doesn’t want to lose what connection he already has with Mayaka. Like Jalapeno said, it’s a cliffhanger. My money’s on a time extension. Satoshi suddenly accepting Mayaka’s feelings feels too much like a cop-out after this week’s drama. I think somehow, Satoshi may have to have some kind of event that will make him want to bet his feelings one more time, this time on Mayaka, instead of solving mysteries without Oreki again like the Mystery Thief case. But that might be a story for another time.

  13. Nys says:

    I enjoyed this episode a lot and I was really looking forward to it. :) I was very surprised that you claim you didn’t notice the hints about Mayaka and Satoshi…it was setup nicely throughout the series as other commenters have explained. I’ll be sad to see Hyouka end.

  14. ujer says:

    A great episode as always… hyouka is the only anime that i waits to watch every week. But the only flaw is Chitanda.

    She is very annoying from her attitude, movement and voice…
    This is the third annoying female character i ever saw in anime after shana and louis…well, they annoying for this so called ‘tsundere’…
    chitanda’s almost whispering voice in early episode really annoy the hell of me…its getting little bit better though in latest episode.
    Still, she like to stick her nose into people business and her movement is really forced. It’s not natural.
    OH GOD ANNOYING…
    Write this comment cause can’t stand it any longer.Need to channel this annoying feeling.

    • Shin says:

      I also had a problem with her sometimes. She has had some really, really nice moments, but on the other hand I feel like the creators are overdoing it a bit sometimes… I like KyoAni’s character animation very much (in this episode especially, Chitanda looked very nice here I think~) but sometimes she moves waaay too bubbly and cutely. Like, no-one could do that irl without being told by someone ‘dude what was that about’ – cute girl or not. O_o Sometimes she’s depicted just too cute and pure for my taste. I didn’t really like her role in the festival arc either.
      Uh… I still think she’s a nice and sweet character, and imo the voice actress fits her perfectly (even though I can understand why her voice would be considered annoying). I especially liked her the last few episodes – seeing her pouting over something Oreki said or making a lame, dumb/sarcastic joke herself is much more enjoying than some moe-ing.

    • wicked says:

      Ugh I hate overly positive and compassion people with no sense boundaries, Don’t you? Damn you, naive goody two shoe cute girl that wont leave me alone….

    • meow says:

      Hm. I dunno about unnatural. This is probably one of the more realistic depictions I’ve ever seen of this type of “moe” character and I buy her completely, even though I’ve never met anyone like her in real life. The way she shot out at the Astronomy Club about the missing chocolate is the same “shoot-before-you-think” mentality that we’ve seen so many times before but in much cuter circumstances during the Kayna Fest. She’s ditzy and adorable to the point where it’s sometimes hard to take her character seriously but I think she showed a lot of elegant poise in the temple visit episode and this episode should have blown her ditzy image right out of the water. And I’m amazed at her seiyuu’s performance. I mean, if KyoAni were to somehow put Chitanda and Ritsu together in a scene, I think you’d have a hard time figuring out that they’re voiced by the same person.

      • wicked says:

        she does more fluffy soft voice characters than Ritsu type characters really. You can say it’s more of her bread and butter. I mean she was Manami in Oreimo, Aria in SYD, and Wendy in Fairy Tail

        • meow says:

          Aria…that Aria. I’ve watched SYD so many times (trying to decipher what they talk about) but I never caught it. I have complicated feelings right now. XD Very interesting.

  15. ujer says:

    About the seiryuu, don’t take me wrong. Each of them performed greatly. All of them fit perfectly with the character.
    My only problem is when they overdoing it. In early episode especially the episode where chitanda ate the wine chocolate, the movement look so fake and forced. If you do watch the series acted by akb48 idol, you understand what i meant. It’s almost they been forced by the director to act cute and moe.

    It’s understandable.Maybe this is one of the fanservice to make people adored chitanda more. This is obvious because there isn’t any character have a problem like this.

    The best thing in hyouka compared to other anime in this season is character development and look like even the voice actor is improving along. Like i said, in early episode, chitanda voice got this screeching sound that reallly annoying. However the screeching sound is started to dissapear in latter episode even though not completely. If you sensitive to this kind of sound, you would realize it.

    However i vote this anime is the best of this year after natsume yuujinchou. Always like this kind of anime.

  16. sato says:

    I’m kinda surprised nobody has mentioned this, but all along I’ve actually had the impression that Satoshi was gay, or at a minimum unsure of his sexuality.
    By his own glossy words he started fresh in high school. This means middle school was “back then,” and yet he still rejected Mayaka at the height of his obsessive time. So it doesn’t add up.
    It would actually be a good character study to show a realistic teenager dealing with sexuality issues in a non-lgbt focused anime. But who knows how it will end up, haven’t read the novels.
    Maybe that’s too much to expect from this demographic. Would that change your opinion of him?

  17. meow says:

    Ordinarily I would say the topic never really came up but after Satoshi’s confession to Oreki at the end of episode 21, I would say he treasures Mayaka, although, yeah…it’s really uncertain if you could call that love. He thinks highly of Mayaka and wants to always have her around but that could be friendship rather than love. I’m not sure if he’s attracted to her the way Oreki is attracted to Chitanda. Then again, I don’t know see Satoshi showing signs he’s attracted to other guys like Oreki either.

    I think there’s just not quite enough character development to say either way. Somehow, I don’t really care either way either. Satoshi’s an interesting character, whether there are reveals about his sexuality or not. Well, I think it would be nice for Mayaka if he were to fall for her. XD Dammit. 22 was such an open, to-be-continued ending episode. What happens after that? The “Little Birds Can Remember” series seems to be all about character development rather than mystery-solving, which is great for me, cos I like all the characters. It was really nice to see Irisu again one last time too. And….was that ARCHER?! XD

    • wicked says:

      Now that it’s over, I’ll just spoil it. Because it would’ve been mentioned as a passing comment anyway if a movie about the 5th book was made. Mayaka and Satoshi indeed became a couple though it was not immediately after Valentines day, they sort of just came back from holiday a couple.

      • meow says:

        Mmm..leaving all the juicy details up to the imagination, huh. It’s a bit of a pity the story isn’t ongoing. There are a lot of interesting side characters that get very little development like Kaho, Mune (the school prez), etc. I was expecting a major arc involving Kaho to show up somewhere. And…wow…she looks good in a miko dress.

        Lots of loose ends too. Kudryavka’s Order hasn’t been published. I was wondering if Tanabe might get Ayako Kouchi involved in reviving the project or perhaps act as a rival to coax Muneyoshi into drawing again. And then there’s Hyouka. It got published and all but I really do wonder if anything would fall out of the tree if it got shaken up, like the identity of the black rabbit and maybe even an appearance by Sekitani Jun. Would be nice if he were able to make peace with his troubled past. And of course, getting to finally see Tomoe’s face!! I kind of had a theory that she might have gone traveling all around the world trying to track down Sekitani Jun. Maybe she found him. It also might be interesting to see Houtarou grow enough to go head to head against Tomoe.

        • wicked says:

          I have no reason to believe this is valid, but I have heard floating on some random forum that Chitanda’s uncles will make an appearance in an OVA episode. Though exactly how I have no clues, sinc eit would have to be an completely original story

          • meow says:

            Well, Hyouka got a high sell-through and made it into many hands. Some even got sold online, which means a potential nationwide audience. What if it were to fall into the hands of survivors of the old faculty who expelled Sekitani Jun, or the black rabbit. The black rabbit, possibly a person of power now, might reappear to try to cover up the issue by complaining against the Classics Club and expel it’s members for slander. In order to protect the Classics Club, Sekitani Jun makes a reappearance. Something like that? Haha..too shounen, I guess.

            Sigh…I wonder if Houtarou will wind up with Chitanda. I hope he grows up enough to catch her properly or they might wind up in a 3 centimeters situation. She is something like a princess after all. An arranged marriage is very possible.

  18. Arno says:

    No more mysteries ? Just teen couples now ? Why is it still called Hyouka ?

  19. Satoshi says:

    Satoshi is gay. Period. No erase. His actions and everything about him tells it.

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SuperMario
Hand Shakers, how I love to watch it jumping off the cliff. This show contains lines like "I don't understand... even if I did understand... but I don't understand." It isn't a dialogue that we encounter too often I'm sure.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Sounds good to me. With me covering Little Witch Academia, Saga of Tanya the evil and Rakugo this season is well covered.
SuperMario
so I've decided to blog 3-gatsu, Scum's Wish and ACCA this season. A bit worry about the latter as I still don't have much to talk about that. Let's try it and see what happens; I say
SuperMario
Okay, I'm not hot on Onihei this week, as if the main theme about these two episodes were "people can be corrupted" then I'm not buying it. ACCA, on the other hand, was still very solid of building up the world and its big events to come.
AidanAK47
I have played all the big roguelikes and found they have the same problem. I argee on procedural generation. Even if the map is different every time you are essentailly going through the same rooms and doing the same things.
Masky
Though to be honest, I don't like procedural(or designed room and then game connects them randomly) games much. I much enjoy hand designed dungeons since I rarely play games through more than once anyway so roguelike's appeal of "Every time you play it through its different!" doesn't appeal to me much and hand designed dungeons are much more memorable
Masky
Can't really comment further on that since I don't know which roguelikes you have played, and neither I have played gungeon so I don't know if its badly designed to the point you can't do anything if rng says so. Though I guess there is nothing wrong about liking luck based games, if roguelike in question is truly unbeatable if rng says so, well, its really badly designed one if you ask me.
AidanAK47
Take my last run. Made it up to the fourth floor. Got plenty of guns but none were really useful. Even then ran out of ammo for all of them and the game was cheap about giving out ammo. Plenty of money but shops with nothing worth buying. Over 5 heart containers but no goddamn health. Died on the boss because I rolled out of a bullet into another bullet. Pretty much unavoidable.
AidanAK47
@Masky, that's the theory but in pretty much every roguelike I played its not the case. If the RNG decides you are going to have a bad time then you are going to have a bad time. Skill can only bring you so far. I have played this game for 7 hours and I know I could have finished it in 2. Only thing stopping me is a dice roll.
Masky
Like, the thing with roguelikes is that they can get easier/harder depending on luck, but well done one should be completable even without any upgrades at all if you are skilled enough.
Masky
Thats not the really case with roguelikes though, unless game design is bad and includes insta kill traps and such that are unavoidable if you are unlucky
AidanAK47
I hate roguelikes. Been playing enter the Gungeon and I just lost all patience with it. Getting real tired of my victory being decided by a RNG. It never feels satisfying to finish a roguelike because I know my victory was determined by pure luck.
AidanAK47
So we got to rely on fansubs for it when it's airing.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Nope. I think because netflix only puts up full seasons they are only planning to put it up when it's finished airing. Or when it's dubbed.
SuperMario
But how does the Netflix thing work? So of I have a Netflix account I can watch the show weekly?
SuperMario
@Aidan: that's a dumb way to do things really because unless you watch the show weekly, everyone gonna forget that it even exist. Just look at Re-Life last year
Lenlo
thought*. Words are hard.

Eventually found the actual first ep though and enjoyed it.
Lenlo
Was funny. I tried to find the first Ep for Little Witch, found original short made afew years ago, watched it and though "This is very similar to the original... Whats new".
AidanAK47
Little witch is one of the best shows this season and yet I can't get subtitles because Netflix doesn't release shows weekly. Motherf*cker.
Lenlo
Ore Monogatari I enjoyed. It was a nice romance that actually explored what happens after the confession. Also the 2 leads are just precious.
Lenlo
Alright but unmemorable seems like a good summation.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: one good thing about Seiren is if you don't like this romance, the whole thing gonna reset after episode 4 so there's a chance that you might end up like it. Agreed that the comedy wasn't very good. Alright but unmemorable
SuperMario
@Topgavin: I watched like first 3 episodes and stopped because I didn't have much time there, but I enjoyed what I saw. A well-written and endearing show in my book
Topgavin
Has anyone here watched Ore Monogatari before? Because in the 4 years I've watched anime, I've never heard of it (I guess it did come out 2 years ago) and yet it's turning out to be one of my favorite shows. Always great going into a show expecting nothing and getting pleasantly surprised.
AidanAK47
Only one more impression to go. Should have it up tomorrow.
Lenlo
Im really not feeling Seiren. Its "comedy" isnt for me and I just dont find it very enjoyable to watch so far. Im curious if it gets any better but 2 episodes in it just isnt that good.
HelghastKillzone
That ending scene is an entire side-story compressed into that. Don't expect anymore of it from here on out as the it sticks to ruthless military/fantasy pretty well.
LookingForKeys
@Topgavin I think it was good, making it the second episode. That way the first set up the world the story will be in, and showed how much of a monster the "little girl" really is right at the end, and then made ep.2 the explanation. Nothing against Tanya trying to rip "God" a new one.
That after-credits scene, though...
SuperMario
Hmm, as much as I like Seiren's omnibus format, it doesn't turn out really hot this second episode. Demi-chan, on the other hand, still maintains its endearing tone. Might blogging Demi-chan instead
Topgavin
Yeah, that second episode was much better than the first. Dunno why they didn't start with that to be honest, waste of an opportunity for a good hook episode. The voice for the main girl still sounds weird to me though; I get it's supposed to sound weird because it symbolizes 'her' being out of place and her personality and body being a mismatch, but it'll certainly take some getting used to.
AidanAK47
Youjo Senki, now we are talking. Like Helghast said, Did the god scene way better than the LN and manga. Made it less comedic and more intimidating.
Lenlo
Oh man that Rakugo intro. Not sure what to think, but first time seeing it I liked it
Kaiser Eoghan
I sort of like good will hunting because I kind of saw a bit of myself in Damon's character when I watched it ages ago.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Remaking psycho and ruining the shower scene, for shame van sant, for shame.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its easy to ripoff some obscure thing though and get away with it. The dogtooth director essentially stole an old Mexican film to make that.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, that following some guys from behind like they were on a RPG games, which I think actually fit with the tones of Elephant. I have such mixed feeling with Gus van Sant too. Don't really think he's a great director.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Although Istvan Szabo is probably a little more well known for that Mephisto film that updates the Faust story. Zoltan Fabri's the fifth seal is a very thought provoking war movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I remember seeing a film documentary that featured Gus van sant in one section, they showed clips of tarrs films, Sant ripped of the cinematography and stole the style from some British short film to make Elephant.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: agree on the other Hungarian filmmakers, I don't know much about them either.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Scorsese's Silence was a big comeback. I really really emotionally connect with spiritual crisis stories.
SuperMario
@kaiser: yep, definitely check wreckmeister down. Althought I admit that watching his 2-hour plus films will feel like 5-hour anyways
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I'm more tolerant of darker teenage/coming of age films/stories. Les Demons was a big surprise.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Though its kind of frustrating, I do think Tarr probably takes attention away from other hungarian filmakers because no-body knows who the hell the others are.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Man, wreckmeister was so visually arresting I started getting dreams from it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I would consider Tarr to be kind of a poor mans Janco, Angelopolus and Tarkvosky rolled into one. I don't entirely "get" wreckmeister and man from London but they are great atmospheric mood piece experiences.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I had been wanting to watch Belar Tarr's Turin Horse and Werckmeister Harmonies for so long now. Well, Fat Girl is shocking haha, but I'm normally drawn into those kind of films anyway.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Margaret took like 5,6 years to release because he couldn't cut it down in the way he wanted. The final cut if I remembered correctly was edited by Martin Scorsese
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Only a HDcam for moonlight now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I looks like my lineup is witch academia, rakugo and youjo senki, well the most latter one until I get bored.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I sense a directors cut for manchester, it feels like it need another 30 minutes.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: right up my valley. Watch Kenneth Lonergan's previous works Magaret and You Can Count on Me. Magaret is very messy but have a raw dialogue and interactions as well
SuperMario
Now the first episodes are over, I will keep on covering 3-gatsu, as for the other twos atm I have 3 options: 1) full romance/anti-romance high school Seiren/Scum's Wish. 2) slice-of-life moe monster girls Demi-chan/Maid Dragon and 3) Mature,dark Onihen/Acca (which although I like them I don't have much to talk about).If you guys have any preference on which shows you like covered then let me know
Kaiser Eoghan
@Helghast: At this point I'm watching youjo senki as an entertaining guilty pleasure.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Too many reboots upcoming, will wait for the dvds instead. I want to explore more of manchester by the sea's director's work. I also want to finally get more into Bela Tarr's stuff.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I was rather shocked by A Ma souer/fat girls final act. Scenes with the Italian in the bedroom were initially creepy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's a nice review Kaiser, a bit jealous with you that you've seen those 3 films which are touted as the best films of 2016. Also Fat Girl, haha, I love that movie.
Kaiser Eoghan
Poor yotaro =< you have so much stuff going down on you =<
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki episode was so good today. That revamped scene with God just fitted so right.
AidanAK47
A official release of that game in the west is apparently coming but it's been a few years and not much news about it.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Ah yes that was the one.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, Had to think for a moment on that one but I think I was talking about this. https://vndb.org/v3144
Kaiser Eoghan
Now I'd hardly consider myself a studio trigger fan, but I watched the first witch academia episode there, it was actually kind of fun, got the same reaction from me as flipflappers did, that magical, special feeling.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I also, of interest reviewed Kenneth Lonegrans new film: http://letterboxd.com/shao_liu_ringon/film/manchester-by-the-sea/
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Moonlight got some feels out of me though it could of been more, it ends abruptly and with 20 extra minutes they could have spent a bit more time on each section of his life.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I checked out lala land, ending was very well executed, one of three scenes in the film that were impressive visually. The whole thing looked pretty and Gosling and Stone had some decent chemistry. Although it didn't resonate emotionally as strongly as the musicals of Jacques Demi did.
Kaiser Eoghan
MOM I want aiyoku no eustia and I want it now.
Kaiser Eoghan
I've never heard of himawari or tokyo babel. The hellsing comparison at least interests me in dies irae. What was the name of that visual novel again that was coming out soon, Aidan you described it as "And Kaiser would love it because its supposed to be really fucked up".
Kaiser Eoghan
I vaguely remember the anime for 11 eyes, it was very forgettable, even the voice acting was poor, hated the childhood friends and the pacing was poor, those black knight things were kind of interesting though.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: You'll have to add me onto the list of those unsatisfied with the ever 17 writer, I read one of those games and felt it was a bunch of interesting bait that never paid off.
AidanAK47
Anyway I plan on doing a review of 11eyes here when I finish it.
AidanAK47
Can't say I was a fan of Ever17. That was a really good twist but when it came to explaining it their was a lot of contrived development. Generally not a fan of the writer. Looseboy, Ryukishi, Gen and Nasu are more my kinda thing
AidanAK47
@Anon, it is nice that so many VNs are on steam but I wish they wouldn't be stupid with the whole no adult content thing. Not so much for myself but to prevent idiots from writing negitives reviews because the game doesn't have sex. VNs can grip you in a way anime simply can't and while they require pathence and time those can be some pretty powerful stories.
Anonymous678956
@Aidan, I am so happy steam's so VN-friendly now. I think it's a very good type of media. Like anime, it has nice visuals, music and some movement but also the inner monologue and text amount of books. It's the perfect combination. Plus, the routes, which are often puzzle pieces and PoVs you have to go through to understand the whole story. True routes like the one of Ever17 blew my mind.
AidanAK47
Hopefully the two VNs I bought of steam turn out better. Tokyo Babel is supposed to be alright and I heard really good things about Himawari.
AidanAK47
I am about a third of the way through the game and really not much of worth has happened. The concept is interesting but the execution is sorely lacking.
AidanAK47
I went in expecting it to be a mixed bag and it's pretty below my expectations. It's just not really well written and the protagonist is a moron. THere isn't really routes and instead you are pretty much stuck with his childhood friend as the main love interest. Problem with that is her character begins and ends with loving the main.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, damn. 11Eyes is on my reading list as well. Although I almost expected it to not be as good as I thought it'd be (back then). Guess I would have enjoyed it if I was able to read it while the (shitty) adaption aired, maybe I have seen/read too many series by now. Guess I'll still give it a try some day though.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I haven't heard the OST or watched the intro video. I only know it be reputation and have decided to walk into it as blind as I can. Still slightly worried as I was somewhat looking forward to reading 11Eyes for a couple of years and now that I am reading it it's well...not good.
Anonymous675376
@Aidan, same here. I was waiting years for this, since I saw the intro video for the first time. Also, that OST!
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki is already leagues better than Izetta. It's going to be top anime of forever and ever. (maybe not)
AidanAK47
And finally Dies Irae is funded. May actually be able to play and finish the game before the anime airs. If the hype is real behind this baby it could be a new personal favorite Visual Novel of mine. Already looking promising with it being like a cross between Hellsing and Fate/Stay Night. Two things I most certainly like.
Lenlo
@Masky, in regards to style over substance thats where im at with Gurrne Lagann.
Topgavin
Yeah, I'll probably watch the next episode to see whether it can redeem itself. Hopefully it can but considering 1st episodes usually get a lot of budget, there's some severe doubt in there.
AidanAK47
I actually argee with character designs and voices are bad in regards to female characters. Still the next episode might change your mind if we get more into the main characters head.
Anonymous671470
It's boring
Topgavin
Also, it seems I disagree with a lot of people in thinking Youjo Senki will be a massive trainwreck. The character designs are awful, the voice acting is mismatched but most of all the premise just seems so very dumb. If I wanted to watch a badass kill people I'd go watch Hellsing or Drifters, because at least those don't have some op, disproportionate loli as the mc.
AidanAK47
Gets even more complicated when you account for Satire and Parody. You could equally argue all examples listed as being as such.
AidanAK47
Little Witch Academia is a decontruction of Harry Potter....I don't believe that but honestly if I tried I could put some reasoning behind that statement.
Topgavin
In the end, it always comes down to opinion (as with every discussion about anime, for some reason). You could spin any and every series as a "deconstruction", which is why people shy away from using the word. You could argue NGE, Madoka and Re:Zero are all deconstructions yet also argue Gundam, Precure and SAO are depending on what points you weigh more importantly.
Masky
Like, if deconstruction is supposed to be just "break the elements and then play story how it would realistically go down" well I haven't watched NGE, but as far as I know it does have stuff that isn't typical to mecha genre besides the "It would fuck up kids" thing plus "realistically how it would play out" is pretty subjective thing. I mean, its mainly about how cynical bastard the writer is :P
Masky
Like I said, I don't fully agree with it because I find video's speaker's attitude annoying, but I found it semi convincing. Main thing I don't find convincing about it is that I don't think its hard to turn video's own arguments agaisnt it and say that by its own logic NGE isn't deconstruction either, like Aidan just said earlier
Masky
And I don't really have energy for checking out the "correct" one. If there even is one. Anyway, the hipster video I was talking about was titled "What Actually Is A Deconstruction?" if you want to check it out.
Masky
Hmm, well, it does depend on definition you use. Like if you use "realistic" thing, well, Magical Girl shows don't usually have "You turn into monsters" thing going on and reason why NGE's pilots go crazy is from dangerous situations rather than evas making them do so. But honestly, I don't really have strong opinion on matter since word seems to be one of those with several different meaning
SuperMario
for me Madoka IS a deconstruction of Magical girl, and yeah like what Aidan said
SuperMario
I think part of Utena is a deconstruction of "prince riding horse and save the girl" because that notion is just a foundation for Utena to become a prince herself and save other girl. That's breaking it apart and resemble it again in its own way. Don't have to be dark/ don't have to be real either
AidanAK47
@Masky, That's just debating semantics. Besides that difinition would pretty much mean that Neon Genesis Evangelion isn't a decontruction either. Madoka isn't a decontruction because it's dark. It's more in its aspects of criticising why a girl should throw her ordinary life away for something as dangerous as being a magical girl. It does take plenty of the typical tropes and turn them on its head
SuperMario
@Masky: Genre deconstruction is such a tricky word that I normally try to avoid using because there's really no set characteristic about the term and different people have different opinions about what constitute "deconstruction". For me, I disagree that deconstruction have to be dark and real, hmm can't say it well but I will give you an example:
Masky
But yeah, I guess I could try to find the video if you guys are interested, though like I said, I got hipsterish feel from the video and felt rather annoyed through it even though I did get what the point was and found it sort of convincing besides my annoyance
Masky
(not that liking NGE is hipsterish, its just that I find NGE to be more style than substance sort of series <_< Anyway, guy didn't dislike madoka or anything, he just seemed to dislike people using word deconstruction wrong in his opinion)
Masky
(especially with how much they seemed to praise Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Masky
I mean, I think the guy was being somewhat hipsterish, but its true the being darker take on genre isn't same as deconstructing the genre
Masky
@AidanAK47: Some other guy on youtube did video that had actually pretty good point about how Madoka isn't really deconstruction, if you go by definition of "Break it down to parts and then play them straight to show how horrifying it would be in real life"
Anonymous670441
Gente - Ristorante no Hitobito
Kaiser Eoghan
If anything its the hate I have for certain characters that makes it more effective.
Kaiser Eoghan
The obsessional level of attachment is just uncomfortable to me, I don't want to get THAT attached to a non-real character.
Kaiser Eoghan
Its literally just a case of "Okay lets look at this picture of this character, she looks interesting, no feelings or expression from me, apply this fetish, fap, get release, go home. "
Kaiser Eoghan
Or drooling/dribbling/heavy breathing/grinning over the characters. I abhor alot of the anime girls I find attractive or am indifferent, even when looking at ecchi/hentai drawings I'm straight and clinical with it.
Kaiser Eoghan
I mean to each their own. But I really hate the level of emotion/devotion to moe/finding the characters attractive. Such as celebrating their birthdays, going on about how cute/hot they are, how important it is that they're virgins. Or not being being self-aware of how irritating the characters are.
Lenlo
Anime hipster is pretty accurate. His general treatment of the current state of anime is annoying, as is his obsession with moe. Maybe its cause I cant stand moe most of the time, but it bugs me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Lenlo: Essentially my brothers view on digibro.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: I don't usually feel the need to correct errors in your reviews as the errors are generally un-important, but I think you meant to say apprentices rather than appearences in the Rakugo review, just bringing that up as it felt like kind of a throw off.
AidanAK47
Which is kinda like saying Madoka wasn't a magical girl deconstruction because Sailor Moon and Nanoha had dark elements too.
AidanAK47
Went and read the reddit comments on it and seems I was right on the money.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, He's basically a anime hipster. For example, I saw a thumbnail of his which had Saitama on it and below it "Is There Meaning In "Subverting" Shounen Tropes?" and I thought "Okay, he's going to go on about how OPM isn't subversive and then list a bunch of arbitrary examples in an attempt to redefine what is actually subversive"
Lenlo
I have lots of issues with Digibro. Dude has some good points, but other very horrible ones. Some issues he feels strongly about and gets kinda biased on imo.
Anonymous669202
acca looks visually interesting, and I personally really dig this kind of show, but it seems that it's definitely not for everyone
AidanAK47
Time to live up to my word. Four posts incoming.
AidanAK47
Man, Little witch Academia was so good. I disagree with the whole Digibro thing about being able to recognise a great show in it's first episode but watching this makes me think that this really is going to be something special.
AidanAK47
Alright, gonna put in effort today and have 3 or 4 first impressions posts done. That should knock out near half the season.
Kaiser Eoghan
Had a flip through handshakers. Garish is the word I'd use to describe it visually, it takes you out of the show.
Topgavin
ASuperMario From the first minute I can already tell it's by the same people that made K. Those colour filters and the extremely jarring/obvious city CGI is unmistakable.
SuperMario
Hand Shakers, literally makes my hands shaking. It's an abosolute mess. Highly recommended to check it out because it's so terrible it's great to watch
Vonter212
Yeah, and it's also a literal woman in refrigerator plot device, since that the thing that pushes the story forward.
Masky
I'd say that having to hide your sister's body in fridge would count as daaaaaaark and edgy, but when the body is wearing only underwear, and for some reason main character put metal things in fridge to keep body standing(I guess to not knock fridge open from inside?) I think it goes to "exploitation" you are talking about
Vonter212
@Masky - Did someone said doing dark things for drama? That's the bread and butter to get despair. Unless it's for the sake of perversion. Then it's just exploitation.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Masky: His other works dead tube and scumbag go further in the unhinged regard.
Masky
*relies on easy "let's do [x dark thing] for drama!" thing
Masky
Geez, Mayonaka no X Giten is fricking disturbing/disgusting ._. I'm pretty sure that writing relies on e, but I can't help but think mangaka is trying to make corpses sexy.
SuperMario
I found Onihei to be quite good, actually one of the most solid new episode I watched this new season. Guys, check them out
Vonter
I just hope it doesn't fall into the same misstep Kabaneri or Inuyasha or Bleach fall by making a villain so over the top that it crossed the line of not having a satisfying downfall.
Anonymous657941
@Vonter I think they just moved on. I lost interest rather quickly and I guess even the fans did that at some point, like with some other long-running series. There is much more new and more direct "fujo" stuff out there, many of them probably switched. Don't know what happens in the manga but maybe the story got worse or contained things some people didn't like.
Vonter
January will be loli dictator month (for me) :p. World Conquest Zvezda Plot, Youjo Senki: Saga of Tanya the Evil (new), Seraph of the End. For some reason I stumble into three curious series with little power hungry girls. If I can ask, why did Owari Seraph's hype died, I remember back it was mentioned more often. It still has the fujoshi fanart but still, I don't see people bringing it up.
SuperMario
@CATski: well, if you didn't like its first 3 episodes I dont think the rest gonna change your mind. Have you finished Erased then? How did you like it?
SuperMario
But I understand it's difficult to speak in front of camera, get some time to get used to it
SuperMario
@kaiser: I won't commend on poem as I'm terrible at it myself but younneed to work more on presentation Kaiser. Small little things like looking directly at the camera or say "thanks for listening" in the end can connect you to the audience better
Anonymous657071
Ok. I'll give the thing another chance. *clicks torrent* XD. CATski.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Topgavin: You might like centaur no nanami if you like demi-chan.
Kaiser Eoghan
Damn...repeated myself =<
Kaiser Eoghan
There are these things called slam sessions done in bars where people get up and read out stuff in front of a crowd and read stuff out. Actually watching rakugo made me think about practicing for that kind of thing.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: the video I did was of me reading out a short piece of writing I did, a poem. lol I uploaded it to the wrong youtube account too I just realized =P
[link src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypBZ2hBDBYs&t=11s
I"] was recording this from my mothers laptops inbuilt cam while reading off my desktop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I think it's a good idea for you to try out reviewing movies/stuffs in youtube channel. I'll be very interesting to listen to them
SuperMario
@Topgavin: Agree. Demi-chan was so charming. Definately one of my favorite so far this new season
Topgavin
Demi-chan's first episode was good. Like, really really good. That blonde-haired girl was hilarious, the teacher-student relationship between the MC and the girls is really interesting and the social/practical problems the demi's face make it look like my favorite show so far.
CATski
Ah... ok. Is it really that good or it's just one of those "artsy" animes that tend to get overrated by their ardent fans? I didnt find the rakugo bit interesting.... probably the weakest aspect of the show for me.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Why did I read that chapter. Why did I do that to myself.
Kaiser Eoghan
Admittedly yes the premise is not for everyone, but if you stick with it, the flashback arc had some good character work in there.
CATski
Rakugo has a season 2? I watched ep 1 - 3 of season 1 then promptly deleted it. The loud "yankee" dude was annoying. And the anime was boring.
Kaiser Eoghan
Oh man, I've been thinking lately of trying to start some kind of youtube channel. I did a few trial run videos. Its much much harder than it looks, didn't realize how nervy being in front of a video camera was.
Kaiser Eoghan
*a declining art and rakygo halls are closing down
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