Posted by psgels on 10 September 2012 with categories: Hyouka

This was an interesting episode. I mean, movie or no movie: the series is ending next week, so Kyoani can pour even more budget than usual into it. The result is a really well animated episodic story with weird build-up.

I mean weird build-up in the way that this episode on one hand develops Satoshi, it explains his actions of some of the previous arcs, and on the other hand it suddenly turns Mayaka and Satoshi into a couple. Now, I know that my memory isn’t the greatest with these kinds of things… but have we ever seen hints to that twist before? I mean, it’s not something that blossomed overnight: they’ve apparently been going on for more than a year now. And with the incredible attention to detail that this series has, I find it hard to believe that they’d never hint at this. So did I miss something?

But whatever faults Hyouka may have had there, it made up for it by giving a very different meaning to his part in the school festival arc. What he did there wasn’t jealousy, it was a battle of him trying to win from his obsession. He allowed himself to dabble a bit with trying to solve things, but he never went far into it like Oreki did. It makes much more sense: if he’s such a large sherlock-fan, then why doesn’t he try to formulate theories or brainstorm? Well, that’s why. And that’s also why Oreki’s plan last week went wrong.

Also weird was Chitanda. I mean, the usual progression for a character like her is to done down: as she grows up she becomes more mature in the process. She however is completely different and after the school festival arc, she suddenly got more extreme, acting more and more on her feelings than she already did before. The animators really liked to exemplify that with a particular few scenes.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Excellent)

38 Responses

  1. Jalapeno Bagel says:

    Not exactly sure if Mayaka and Satoshi are a couple or not. Sort of left us on a cliffhanger at the end as far as I could tell. What we do know (and it’s been explicitly noted in the series from the beginning) is that Mayaka has a crush on Satoshi. I guess Satoshi explicitly said he reciprocates her feelings this time around, but he doesn’t want to accept them because he’s afraid of how he’ll change (or revert is a better word).

    as for chitanda, i think she’s quite mature overall, but naive in her thinking. with her family background, she has to be the mature girl for the sake of reputation, but with the classics club, she’s been given more opportunities for her real self to appear.

  2. Qwerty1 says:

    You never caught onto the Satoshi Mayaka thing?

    The basics for it got laid down in episode 2 where Oreki pretty much introduces Mayaka as the girl that’s been crushing on Satoshi since middle school.

    On top of that there are plenty of cues in Mayaka’s behavior around Satoshi. Most recently is how she got all flustered and blushed when he saw her in her outfit on new years, the exact opposite reaction she gave Oreki.

    • animefan34 says:

      For the love of God, how could anyone never “caught onto the Satoshi Mayaka thing”? Besides being explicitly said in episode 2 and hinted over and over, we had the second ending sequence where Mayaka follows Satoshi during the whole thing and blush when she finally handcuffs him! Are you gonna say that you NEVER watched the second ending sequence EVEN ONCE?

  3. Gryph says:

    They’re not a couple yet. Satoshi’s just been leaving Mayaka hanging for a year…

    There’s a large amount of Mayaka/Satoshi foreshadowing leading up to this episode. In fact it was getting to the point where I would’ve been really disappointed if they hadn’t addressed all of the hints they were giving us.

    From the very beginning of their interaction there are strange glances and half conversations between Fukube and Ibara and the reflection of their personalities and relationships is a major sub-plot of the show in my opinion. The back story of the refused chocolate goes a long way to solidify the hints they’ve been dropping…

    Fukube’s reluctance to enter into a relationship because of his personal uncertainties is such a 16 year old boy truism it was almost painful.

    Its been subtle and slow, but so is the rest of Hyouka…

  4. Bunny says:

    satoshi and mayaka have always had a thing so its not just random

  5. vjott says:

    “have we ever seen hints to that twist before?”
    Mayaka and satoshi aren’t a couple but there have been several hints scattered throughout the entire show. From the episode when Oreki introduces Chitanda to Mayaka and said that she’s had a crush on him since middle school to the scene with the two at the end of the Kanya Festa arc leading up to this episode. You should rewatch some of the earlier episodes and the Kanya Festa arc (I suspect you were probably more caught up with the mystery that emerged in that arc).

    “She however is completely different and after the school festival arc, she suddenly got more extreme”
    I don’t think she got more extreme. We’ve seen her anxiousness to be helpful before when she ran around desperately seeking help for her club during the Kanya Festa arc. What we saw here was her trying to fix something that she thought was her fault and she was terribly upset. Given her personality, I would say that her reaction was to be expected.

  6. brianwuzhere says:

    Is Hyouka actually ending next week though? Anime Calendar and ANN both say it’s running for 24 episodes.

    • animefan34 says:

      When is people going to understand that ANN is NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE? And why would anyone go to a site where anime fans are mocked and made fun of anyways?

  7. wicked says:

    It’s pretty much stated the first time you see Mayaka, that she’s crazy about Satoshi. I mean it’s all over the school festival arc and the fillers as well.

    Satoshi and Mayaka is the romance of the novel series really, but it’s really not like you get pages and pages of them looking at each other.

    What the anime does that you dont really get from reading the novel is up the romantic tension between Chitanda and Oreki. In the book they sort of just struck a balance point where Oreki knows he has to and how to deal with Chitanda and Chitanda kind of just going to Oreki because he’s reliable. It’s mainly a “mystery” book first, so it’s likely they’d just maintain this above friend below lover status.

  8. TheUltimateReaper says:

    Actually now that I think about haven’t all of the characters been acting more extreme in this episode? Satoshi finally stopped avoiding the issue with Mayaka, Mayaka was love struck and fiery. Chitanda was consumed with immense feelings and Oreki actually cared about something enough to get him feeling/moving.

    I don’t necessary think being mature means you are more docile, I like to think that it means your more in touch with your true self, and your emotions.

    Sure plenty of hits though it wasn’t anything major.

    Also let me get this straight. Satoshi, was basically depressed about being obsessed with wining/being better/the best since he always failed or that when he did win he felt empty, so he decided to just enjoy life/not be consumed. Yeah?

    Every new episode of Hyouka keeps making me like it more. Looking forward to next week.

  9. sushi55 says:

    whatever guys. Just enjoy the show!

  10. meow says:

    I loved Tomoe’s Valentine message. I didn’t know there was another japanese character that sounded so much like “Ai” (love). Does it really mean “pity”?

    • ronbb says:

      Yes – Tomoe’s message is brilliant, and that word does mean pity or grief. I guess Tomoe’s teasing her own little brother, and Houtarou’s comment to the chocolate – bitter – is also smart to end the episode.

      • meow says:

        Haha. It’s pretty apt. I mean, in the end, the only valentine’s day chocolate he got was from his sister. That Chitanda having a house rule about not giving gifts to people they’re close to. What a tease. So there’s no way to tell the difference?

        Actually, what does that make the Chitandas and the Juumonjis? Chitanda delivered a gift to them. Hmmm…

  11. Ofx360 says:

    Yeah, you definitely missed the hints.
    Mayaka was crushing on Satoshi the entire show. This show does a bit with overt detail, but it also excels at subtle, realistic detail. Normally in anime, if a girl likes a guy, its thrown all in our faces and the girl acts like a moron all the time. But in this show: eye movements, subtle blushes, awkward pauses, weird shuffles responses and reactions. They all build up to show that one character likes another. And throughout the show, they’ve been showing those hints.

    And you may think it’s too subtle, but it think they executed it well. It felt like a realistic interaction between one person that liked someone after getting rejected, and another that has very immature, but, again, very realistic feelings.

  12. Shin says:

    I’m a little shaken you didn’t get the whole Mayaka-Satoshi thing to be honest… It was so wonderful and felt so life-like through the whole series. THAT’s how teenage love goes the way it should. Not that strange horny-kind … thingie.
    The problem with modern teenage romance animes nowadays is, just as Ofx360 said, that they don’t show subtleness at all when it comes to love between said teenagers. And it really, really bugs me… It always feels like a kind of “body-orientated” love, you know? However in Hyouka I feel like the characters are seriously connected.

    Mayaka is really a sweet girl. I’m happy that Satoshi actually feels the same way about her, I’ve never been sure if he’d actually friendzoned her or something. o_o Well he kind of did, while not really. That’s what I mean: Teenagers just are strange like this.

    • meow says:

      Hm. It looks like a potential train wreck though. I sure hope typical teen romance goes a little more smoothly than this. It takes some callousness to be able to literally break up another girl’s feelings in order to avoid a resolution. And there’s some amazing depth and resilience to Mayaka’s feelings to be able to so gracefully accept what Satoshi did. Well, like Oreki, I kind of figured it was Satoshi from the start. Go way back to Mayaka’s introduction scene where Satoshi called Oreki and her their middle school’s best couple due to their constant bickering. I think Satoshi has some serious personal issues to work out before he’ll be ready to accept Mayaka’s feelings but on the other hand, he doesn’t want to lose what connection he already has with Mayaka. Like Jalapeno said, it’s a cliffhanger. My money’s on a time extension. Satoshi suddenly accepting Mayaka’s feelings feels too much like a cop-out after this week’s drama. I think somehow, Satoshi may have to have some kind of event that will make him want to bet his feelings one more time, this time on Mayaka, instead of solving mysteries without Oreki again like the Mystery Thief case. But that might be a story for another time.

  13. Nys says:

    I enjoyed this episode a lot and I was really looking forward to it. :) I was very surprised that you claim you didn’t notice the hints about Mayaka and Satoshi…it was setup nicely throughout the series as other commenters have explained. I’ll be sad to see Hyouka end.

  14. ujer says:

    A great episode as always… hyouka is the only anime that i waits to watch every week. But the only flaw is Chitanda.

    She is very annoying from her attitude, movement and voice…
    This is the third annoying female character i ever saw in anime after shana and louis…well, they annoying for this so called ‘tsundere’…
    chitanda’s almost whispering voice in early episode really annoy the hell of me…its getting little bit better though in latest episode.
    Still, she like to stick her nose into people business and her movement is really forced. It’s not natural.
    OH GOD ANNOYING…
    Write this comment cause can’t stand it any longer.Need to channel this annoying feeling.

    • Shin says:

      I also had a problem with her sometimes. She has had some really, really nice moments, but on the other hand I feel like the creators are overdoing it a bit sometimes… I like KyoAni’s character animation very much (in this episode especially, Chitanda looked very nice here I think~) but sometimes she moves waaay too bubbly and cutely. Like, no-one could do that irl without being told by someone ‘dude what was that about’ – cute girl or not. O_o Sometimes she’s depicted just too cute and pure for my taste. I didn’t really like her role in the festival arc either.
      Uh… I still think she’s a nice and sweet character, and imo the voice actress fits her perfectly (even though I can understand why her voice would be considered annoying). I especially liked her the last few episodes – seeing her pouting over something Oreki said or making a lame, dumb/sarcastic joke herself is much more enjoying than some moe-ing.

    • wicked says:

      Ugh I hate overly positive and compassion people with no sense boundaries, Don’t you? Damn you, naive goody two shoe cute girl that wont leave me alone….

    • meow says:

      Hm. I dunno about unnatural. This is probably one of the more realistic depictions I’ve ever seen of this type of “moe” character and I buy her completely, even though I’ve never met anyone like her in real life. The way she shot out at the Astronomy Club about the missing chocolate is the same “shoot-before-you-think” mentality that we’ve seen so many times before but in much cuter circumstances during the Kayna Fest. She’s ditzy and adorable to the point where it’s sometimes hard to take her character seriously but I think she showed a lot of elegant poise in the temple visit episode and this episode should have blown her ditzy image right out of the water. And I’m amazed at her seiyuu’s performance. I mean, if KyoAni were to somehow put Chitanda and Ritsu together in a scene, I think you’d have a hard time figuring out that they’re voiced by the same person.

      • wicked says:

        she does more fluffy soft voice characters than Ritsu type characters really. You can say it’s more of her bread and butter. I mean she was Manami in Oreimo, Aria in SYD, and Wendy in Fairy Tail

        • meow says:

          Aria…that Aria. I’ve watched SYD so many times (trying to decipher what they talk about) but I never caught it. I have complicated feelings right now. XD Very interesting.

  15. ujer says:

    About the seiryuu, don’t take me wrong. Each of them performed greatly. All of them fit perfectly with the character.
    My only problem is when they overdoing it. In early episode especially the episode where chitanda ate the wine chocolate, the movement look so fake and forced. If you do watch the series acted by akb48 idol, you understand what i meant. It’s almost they been forced by the director to act cute and moe.

    It’s understandable.Maybe this is one of the fanservice to make people adored chitanda more. This is obvious because there isn’t any character have a problem like this.

    The best thing in hyouka compared to other anime in this season is character development and look like even the voice actor is improving along. Like i said, in early episode, chitanda voice got this screeching sound that reallly annoying. However the screeching sound is started to dissapear in latter episode even though not completely. If you sensitive to this kind of sound, you would realize it.

    However i vote this anime is the best of this year after natsume yuujinchou. Always like this kind of anime.

  16. sato says:

    I’m kinda surprised nobody has mentioned this, but all along I’ve actually had the impression that Satoshi was gay, or at a minimum unsure of his sexuality.
    By his own glossy words he started fresh in high school. This means middle school was “back then,” and yet he still rejected Mayaka at the height of his obsessive time. So it doesn’t add up.
    It would actually be a good character study to show a realistic teenager dealing with sexuality issues in a non-lgbt focused anime. But who knows how it will end up, haven’t read the novels.
    Maybe that’s too much to expect from this demographic. Would that change your opinion of him?

  17. meow says:

    Ordinarily I would say the topic never really came up but after Satoshi’s confession to Oreki at the end of episode 21, I would say he treasures Mayaka, although, yeah…it’s really uncertain if you could call that love. He thinks highly of Mayaka and wants to always have her around but that could be friendship rather than love. I’m not sure if he’s attracted to her the way Oreki is attracted to Chitanda. Then again, I don’t know see Satoshi showing signs he’s attracted to other guys like Oreki either.

    I think there’s just not quite enough character development to say either way. Somehow, I don’t really care either way either. Satoshi’s an interesting character, whether there are reveals about his sexuality or not. Well, I think it would be nice for Mayaka if he were to fall for her. XD Dammit. 22 was such an open, to-be-continued ending episode. What happens after that? The “Little Birds Can Remember” series seems to be all about character development rather than mystery-solving, which is great for me, cos I like all the characters. It was really nice to see Irisu again one last time too. And….was that ARCHER?! XD

    • wicked says:

      Now that it’s over, I’ll just spoil it. Because it would’ve been mentioned as a passing comment anyway if a movie about the 5th book was made. Mayaka and Satoshi indeed became a couple though it was not immediately after Valentines day, they sort of just came back from holiday a couple.

      • meow says:

        Mmm..leaving all the juicy details up to the imagination, huh. It’s a bit of a pity the story isn’t ongoing. There are a lot of interesting side characters that get very little development like Kaho, Mune (the school prez), etc. I was expecting a major arc involving Kaho to show up somewhere. And…wow…she looks good in a miko dress.

        Lots of loose ends too. Kudryavka’s Order hasn’t been published. I was wondering if Tanabe might get Ayako Kouchi involved in reviving the project or perhaps act as a rival to coax Muneyoshi into drawing again. And then there’s Hyouka. It got published and all but I really do wonder if anything would fall out of the tree if it got shaken up, like the identity of the black rabbit and maybe even an appearance by Sekitani Jun. Would be nice if he were able to make peace with his troubled past. And of course, getting to finally see Tomoe’s face!! I kind of had a theory that she might have gone traveling all around the world trying to track down Sekitani Jun. Maybe she found him. It also might be interesting to see Houtarou grow enough to go head to head against Tomoe.

        • wicked says:

          I have no reason to believe this is valid, but I have heard floating on some random forum that Chitanda’s uncles will make an appearance in an OVA episode. Though exactly how I have no clues, sinc eit would have to be an completely original story

          • meow says:

            Well, Hyouka got a high sell-through and made it into many hands. Some even got sold online, which means a potential nationwide audience. What if it were to fall into the hands of survivors of the old faculty who expelled Sekitani Jun, or the black rabbit. The black rabbit, possibly a person of power now, might reappear to try to cover up the issue by complaining against the Classics Club and expel it’s members for slander. In order to protect the Classics Club, Sekitani Jun makes a reappearance. Something like that? Haha..too shounen, I guess.

            Sigh…I wonder if Houtarou will wind up with Chitanda. I hope he grows up enough to catch her properly or they might wind up in a 3 centimeters situation. She is something like a princess after all. An arranged marriage is very possible.

  18. Arno says:

    No more mysteries ? Just teen couples now ? Why is it still called Hyouka ?

  19. Satoshi says:

    Satoshi is gay. Period. No erase. His actions and everything about him tells it.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Masky
(aliens existing in the show is good example of that missing on themes part xP)
Masky
*most successful conqueror
Masky
Honestly was just amused most conqueror of all time not being featured in the show :D But wait, whats this about aliens?
AidanAK47
Anyway the important thing to take into account is that in the Fate universe, King Arthur is a woman, Attila the Hun is an Alien, Thomas Edison is a lion and Jack the Ripper is a little girl in a dominatrix outfit. Any questions?
AidanAK47
And while you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes, it does leave you ignorant of how that show handles those ideas and themes.
AidanAK47
As for the Historical Alexander, he wasn't given the title of King of Couquerors. Fate/Zeros interpretation of him was. As generally accurate Fates interpretation of Servents history can be, they can make changes to suit the narrative.
AidanAK47
In that Regard Alexander was doing the conquest thing before Ghengus did. Ghengus likely has some other title. Hell he may only have the title because public consciousness was is more familiar with Alexander than Ghengus.
AidanAK47
Yeah, looking it up seems the King Title lost quite a lot of meaning in the Nasuverse. Though the King Title is rather flimsy. I mean Arthur is the King of Knights cause of the Knights of the round table. Gil is king of heroes because his tale was the first Heroic myth.
Lenlo
I think Alexander was just the first one they thought of, and they couldnt retroactively give it to someone else.

That said, Broskander deserves it <3
Masky
(And no, you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes of it.)
Masky
(just to note in case I need to note, I do tend to do at least cursory research when I make comments on stuff I don't watch)
Masky
That first part is semantics as Fate gives title "King" to historical figures who weren't kings already :D Also, you can make that argument about historical Alexander the Great? Since that seriously sounds like kind of weak reason.
AidanAK47
Also sees Rider as deserving of title of "King of Conquerors" because that which he strives to conquer most is not lands or material wealth, but the hearts of people, the toughest conquest that can be undertaken by anyone.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Ghengis Khan wasn't a king. He was a Khan.
Lenlo
Ghengis is always a Rider in my mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, Ghengis would be an appropriate beserker servant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Masky: I know, it feels so wrong I'm still mad I can't summon Karl Marx or Stalin.
Masky
So wait, Fate series is about historical figures with super powers, but "King of Conquerors" title isn't given to Ghengis Khan? :D Seriously? Thats just so wrong
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't feel any point in finishing it, it feels like something that I'd just randomly drop , not because its a bad show, but because I got my fill of it.
AidanAK47
I am actually going to drop blogging it.
AidanAK47
@Sash, indeed. I have been watching it but not blogging it for the last few episodes because it just hasn't givne me anything to say. I don't think it's a bad show but I have pointed out the flaws and strengths of it already so there is truly nothing more to say on it.
Sash
I think wotakoi is starting to feel repetitive..
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware Shana and Batman Ninja Harelequinn are both voiced by Rie kugimiya.
Lenlo
I did. It was... It was a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Did you end up watching Batman ninja by the way?
Lenlo
Music is great, yeah. When the music is on point, everything goes up. Everytime the sync the fight/punches to the music I just get hyped. Like the rotating shot with Aragaki or the first fight in episode 1.
Lenlo
Ill do my best to be clearer in the future on that front. Yeah, I dont mind twists like this. Makes the inevitable Mikio fight, narratively, even better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel the music does alot of the lifting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, so that was it.
Lenlo
Sorry if I never made that clear.
Lenlo
I would rather have fewer, amazing, fights than a lot of low-quality fights. This is a one cour show, the more meaning/impact they can give each fight the better.

Like Aragaki, narratively, was great. Loved it. Its just in animation/choreography that it falls flat.
Lenlo
Im disappointed with the animation of the fights. Narratively, I think they are quite good.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*disappointed with the fights in past episodes
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Pretty much what I said I thought of the episode. Although I was surprised how took the episodes ending, I expected you to see it as a slap in the face after being disappointed with the fights.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, I thought Megalo Box did something unique this episode. I wasn't expecting Joe to *not* fight. And the Mikio/Yukiko proxy war is an interesting character motivation. Im betting Yukiko will get Joe a full citizenship, effectively getting her on his side.
Lenlo
I wish I was physically capable of watching Megalo Box without thinking of Hajime no Ippo. I really do. But everytime I watch it, it makes me want to watch Ippo again to.
Anonymous2120908
I watched some more of the Chimera family chinese anime. (Wasn't aware it was monthly released). And geez, I like the concept, the background art is very pretty and contrasts with settings that have become tired in other anime. Yet sadly the animation and script are WEAK. I haven't grasped the quality of what's expected of these types of production but I want to believe, they're trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not much in the way of action in megalobox this week, but I did like the focus on Yukkiko getting a small character moment and then the big moment at episodes end .
AidanAK47
@Anon, That's some lazy ass trolling buddy. Should have stopped before the hashtags.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm even sort of looking forward to supposedly less respectable stuff like Goblin slayer and happy sugar life.
Vonter
Also E3 is almost here. And I can't wait. I think Nintendo will have a good show considering they're revealing the new Smash with a tournament. There's rumors of the new game by Retro Studios (Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong) and maybe they'll reveal something about how Pokemon will be on the Switch.
Vonter
Also there's always the chance of something new being discovered. Not everything needs expectations behind. Sometimes great things come out of nowhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So yes, there are some at least decent shows coming out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Muh Baki, Muh Bananna fish, muh made in abyss season 2, muh Vinland.
Anonymous2119906
The rest of this year looks like shit for anime and 2019 doesn't look great either #fuckmoe #makeanimegreatagain
Anonymous2119214
@Kaiser yeah it happened in half the amount of eps this time around for steins gate 0; which i expected considering there's a lot of ground to cover
Anonymous2119106
@Supermario Something like Fate or the LOTR films are a different case. I get where you're coming from about your preference, but I'm arguing that if a large story is going to be split into 3 films, it helps that the 3 films feel cleanly cut. Infinity war, even though we know there's a second part to the story, feels like it has that cohesive narrative structure with a beginning, middle, and end
Anonymous2119106
@Super Mario yea but the marvel movies are a different situation so i don't think the comparison is as appropriate. Marvel movies are "episodic" in nature rather than a continuous narrative. The films are largely isolated stories that are happening in a similar universe that only happen to "congeal" narratively because of a few overarching details shared between films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I remember when the original series suddenly shifted and got going and it was a really depressing episode.
Lenlo
Oh baby. The storm has finally come in Steins;Gate. Let the true suffering commence
SuperMario
@anon2118276: that's why I don't like LoTR trilogy. It's still a whole body chopped up in 3 parts, despite how clean the cut is. Whereas for me it works better if it was like a branch in a tree. The Marvel movies (despite my disinterest on those) are a good example of this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I did feel some of this weeks steins gate felt fillery, I do like see these characters interact and given the episodes conclusion, this episode acted as a calm before the storm.
Lenlo
Ill agree with you on King Kong. As for the Ralph Bakshi LotR, I have. I am still to this day impressed by the overlay of 2D art onto real/overexposed footage. It makes for shockingly fluid animation in places and has its own distinct style
Anonymous2118208
@Lenlo - Have you watched the old Ralph Bakshi adaptation of the first two books? It's uneven, but it's interesting comparing and contrasting certain decisions. As good as Peter Jackson is, I feel he makes very longwinded films, I like his version of King Kong a lot, but it is too long.
Anonymous2118276
@supermario i disagree; the point is that even though the LOTH films have cliffhanger endings, they still feel like fils. they have a defined first second and third act with well paced tension and release throughout them. They follow a storytelling macrostructure necessary for films to feel like cohesive narratives even if they are to end on a cliffhanger
Lenlo
I quite liked the individual LOTR movie just fyi
Vonter
Marvel surprisingly has kept their movies simple enough, that while you might miss details nowadays, you can tell what's happening.
Vonter
Another bad case is like with Assassin's Creed, which like Lost, just tried to tease a lot of things, then it grew tired of trying to piece them together and let the last games work more standalone, with little hints of a larger lore.
Vonter
Metroid does both, it has a standalone story and a hint to what a sequel might bring. Though that hint rarely matters by the time the new game is released.
Vonter
@SuperMario - Some videogames trilogies also do that. Gears of War and God of War had good standalone beginnings but by the second game they put cliffhanging endings. Kingdom Hearts does that and I expect 3 to also do it. Megaman Legends and Half Life had incomplete stories, which might be the worse case in regards to trying to make a continuous story.
SuperMario
It ruins the appetite
SuperMario
I actually think Lord of the Rings' trilogy is a bad example to follow. These films are meant to be viewed as a whole, so each film doesn't hold much as an individual story. I just can't digest films that have "to be continued" sign at the end. Imagine having a first course meal and then have to wait for few days for second course
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the current topic, I would be well for the production of a long running, ambitious ova series.
Anonymous2116425
then again, i don't take too much issue with these films feeling like movie-sized eps...the wait just sucks is all
Anonymous2116425
clearly the films need each other to tell the whole story, yet they can be taken for what they are in isolation as well
Anonymous2116425
I don't mind the trilogy trend at all; like Aidan said, when everything is said and done, all the films will be available to watch. I just think a stronger attempt should be made to make them feel like complete films. Something like the lord of the rings trilogy is a great example of how to do this
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am in full confidence that neither I nor Miura will survive to the end of berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course maybe they won't have a future , think about it that way, then they'd never see it, life has that weird way of being unpredictable like that =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
You can always rewatch them just before watching the one after.
AidanAK47
Of course not. But that's the thing. The wait is only a temporary problem. Anyone in the future will have all movies ready to view.
SuperMario
So it's best to wait for another 2 years to watch Heaven's Feel? Hell NOT
AidanAK47
When all the movies come out though you can basically barrel through it like a TV series.
SuperMario
Dangit, it's me Mario
Anonymous2115918
I still don't know if I like this trilogy trend. We've had a fair bun h of those in recent years (Berserk Golden Age, Madoka, even Kizumonogatari). I guess doing it that way, they'd make much more profits, and we have higher production values, but the wait is way too long and I don't think it works as movie-format
Kaiser-Eoghan
One of the very rare times where self-awareness works.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can be nice and say of course Ryan Reynolds+ violence, comic was funnier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But I'm sure if you think it over, the first deadpool was trapped in origin story mode, as an advantage, the sequel, is probably free of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Deadpool 2 had John Wicks director, which at the least means something in terms of action direction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: There was a whole run of deadpool issues called Cable and deadpool, which I suppose that pairing together gets the best out of the character.
AidanAK47
Seen Deadpool 2 tonight and I have difficultly deciding if it's better or worse than Deadpool 1. Still it's quite fun and I enjoyed it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I feel somewhat similar in regards to Franxx. When this series finishes I won't be singing high praises for it. Yet I do feel that it's worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Now I get ya. Yeah I understand that. I might even feel the same if I didn't already know the story from the VN.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The second film seems to be in cinema this year but we won't get it until it hits blu-ray.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: As I expected, I am disappointed that they have held back . And you might just be right about Castrollop/Caligula/Nero, when I originally attempted to watch the show years ago, that was the episode I stopped on.
KTravlos
Yang really is stealing the show this time. But I wanted the "Alcohol is mankind's oldest friend" rant. I need it.
KTravlos
my expectation is that they will take this to the Battle of Armistar, and then the films will cover the dual civil wars etc.
KTravlos
...CASTROP REBELLION! Why the hell sacrifice an episode to the most useless and bad part of the original! I hated that episode. Well let us see if they can give it a better twist this time around.
KTravlos
The Iserlohn arc at LGOGH:NT was ok. I liked how they presented the preparations. I like the new Murai face. The music was quite good. But they did tone the violence. I expected Walter to stab the imperial officer in the neck. They have toned down the violence a lot. And I missed Seeckts "Long live the Empire" death. That said it was not bad, and I think in general it was good adaption. But....
Anonymous2115268
for example, I think Darling in the franxx is pretty average, but that's not because i think it doesn't have cool shit in it or things that make it appealing; I just find that what the show tries to achieve is not that stupendous or worth lauding with praise. As a result, the flaws stick out that much more to me
Anonymous2115268
@Lenlo and that's pretty much how i felt. Everything is subject to criticism; hell i criticize my most favorite things in the world because i know they're not perfect. I evaluate art and media on whether what it achieves overshadows the flaws and to what degree. Which i think is the best way to approach criticism
Lenlo
I want to repeat though, Heavens Feel wasn't bad. I know some people take any criticism to mean I hated it, but I actually quite enjoyed it. I just think ill appreciate/enjoy it more once the other 2 movies are also out.
Lenlo
@Anon, you nailed it. I couldnt describe it, but what you said /feels/ right.

And Aidan, I loved Lindsay Ellis's videos on the whole Hobbit debacle. A shame, cause the original Lord of the Rings is a landmark in film for me.
Amagi
@Aidan: Do we know if the next HF movie will be finished this year?
Amagi
I love how and how often they say "Fujimi no Sugimoto" in Golden Kamuy. It's pretty hype for some reason, especially when it's said by his enemies.
Anonymous2114206
yea. heaven's feel is nothing like the situation with peter jackson's hobbit; this story needs this many movies and that large runtime. The thing with these heavens feel films that is probably bothering lenlo is that they feel like very long episodes and that particularly the first film felt like a giant prologue rather than a film with a beginning, middle, and end
AidanAK47
And just to make it clear, Heavens Feel needs at least three movies to cover the entire story. It's too big for one movie.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I ain't unhappy about it though. Sucks that I need to wait so long for each movie but there is higher production values as a result. Though in regards to the Hobbit I recommend watching Lindseys Eillis videos on it. As it not only talks about how it screwed the Hobbit but also how the movies screwed New Zealand.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I could never immerse myself in Tolkienistic world building.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Man, the hobbit, lord of the rings and that shit king kong film, he sold out so much , this was the man who gave me Heavenly creatures , Braindead and Feebles.
Lenlo
It is very beautiful indeed. And Aidan, that Hobbit metaphor made me weep for you. I hated what happened to the Hobbit
Anonymous2112805
other than that; HF is a very beautiful looking film; ufotable has improved with their digital compositions...holy crap
Anonymous2112805
heaven's feel seems to be embracing its more horrific elements. Aside from that, watching this film made me realize how much i prefer rin over the rest of the girls; kinda wish we got to spend a bit more time understanding Sakura's psyche in the film
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: This was part of some film fest thing, ended up missing big fish Begonia though, that Chinese animated thing =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: they'd invited him to introduce the flick.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Had this really unexpected run in, in my nearest arthouse cinema, seeing some film about the Soviet space program , I bump into this eastern European guy, assume he's an audience member, awkwardly say something in Russian to him, turns out he's the Russian federation ambassador to Ireland.
AidanAK47
It's sort of the hobbit situation where they chopped one book into three. Expect here we aren't getting extra fluff to pad things out. Well there are extra scenes but they are actually relevant.
Point is that in it's orignal form there are no stopping points here were you need to wait a year to continue. It was a straight story from start to finish.
AidanAK47
Well Fate is essentially the tutorial section that introduces most of the concepts and whatnot. But even then some of the things here are explained later in Heaven's Feel. Cause yeah, not only is the Fate/Stay Night VN not supposed to be split up into three seperate things, the routes aren't supposed to be split into movies either.
Lenlo
Im only familiar with the UBW route, cause Ufotable
Lenlo
I see.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, In a way there is. Heaven's Feel was originally meant to be experience after the Fate and UBW routes of the VN. That the thing Fate/Stay Night has struggled with. It's not meant to be split up into three like this. It's originally supposed to be three parts of a whole. Each route complementing another.
Nayrael
And so am I
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Its like....sometimes I actually want to be able to like something I end up not liking, knowing I am the problem and not the show.
Anonymous2110797
Spoiler alaert: anime is trash
Lenlo
I can understand that. I cant stand Clannad, so everytime I ask for a decent romance and it gets recommended I die alittle inside.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While thats very true that not everyone agreeing does make things more interesting, at the same time theres some sense of feeling left out when not understanding the appeal of something extremely well loved.
Lenlo
Also @Maskey +1. If everyone agreed with each other, it would be boring. I love hearing what other people think on stuff.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, give Ippo a try. It is one of the longest running and best sports anime/manga ever made. I sincerely believe this. That said, Megalo Box isnt bad. I still enjoy it. Ive just seen boxing done better.
Lenlo
It wasnt a bad movie. It just felt like it had a lot going on. Like Gil had a 30 sec clip, I don't really understand what the ribbon monster is but I suspect its the grail, and the new Assassin pulling an Alien, while cool, came out of left field. Like, once I just accepted it and moved on it was a fun movie. It just felt like there was a base of knowledge I needed but didnt have.
Masky
Eh, its okay to not like something that someone else likes. I disagree rather often with blog writers' opinions here but I still enjoy reading their opinions
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: There was a another idolmaster show and it had mecha in it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Based on that I think I'm getting more out of it because I've only seen a few ippo episodes so I don't have much to go on to compare.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think thats the reason here Lenlo, comparatively to you, I have seen much less of ippo so, contrasting megalo box with it isn't something I can really do.
AidanAK47
But seriously, you can ask me on discord about anything you didn't quite get, provided it's not explained later.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, you are just a big dumb dumb that cannot understand art.
SuperMario
... more films coming soon
SuperMario
@Lenlo: maybe wanting more is a right feeling since there will be 2
Lenlo
So just finished Heavens Feel and I was... not as impressed as Aidan. As someone who is not a big TypeMoon fan, I had a lot of trouble keeping up with what was happening. It was pretty don't get me wrong. Thats Ufotable for you. But as a cohesive story it left me wanting
SuperMario
@Kaser: I'll send down the link once it has something on it
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'll be sure to read Mario's film blog.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Likely a compliment coming from me that increasingly Cutie honey is able to one up itself constantly in ridiculousness.
Anonymous2108907
@supermario: well, i did find the Nitta interaction with his family funny... Literally convincing them with his charisma alone. But i am finally happy for Anzu. this is Sash by the way, can't change my name for some reason
Anonymous2108852
@supermario: well, i did find the Nitta interaction with his family funny... Literally convincing them with his charisma alone. But i am finally happy for Anzu
Anonymous2108852
@supermario: well, i did find the Nitta interaction with his family funny... Literally convincing them with his charisma alone. But i am finally happy for Anzu
Anonymous2108334
Nepal Trek is the trek to the roof of the world that reminds you mystic and religious rites, Yeti, fascinating adventures and explorer’s tales and mysterious places like the heaven in earth. you can choose:
Everest Base Camp Trek, ABC Trek, Langtang Trek
AidanAK47
Well shit. Franxx actually went there. I mean I suspected it but I am still surprised they actually did it.
SuperMario
@Sash: I did (a little) too, damn isn't Hinamatsuri a comedy?
Sash
Today's episode of Hinamaturi made me cry....
KTravlos
avanti o popolo
alla riscossa
Bandiera Rossa
Bandiera Rossa
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would deem myself hideously verbose.
Lenlo
Oh I understand Aidan. Wordy is a character trait we share.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I generally get wordy with series I am massively into.
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware that Asirpa is voiced in English by Tanya AND hello kitties voice actress.
Lenlo
Golden Kamuy mangas reaction faces are amazing
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also those reaction faces come across more effectively in the manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And retar is best wolf .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thats exactly what I mean by my comment, I realized just how more, as I said visceral the manga is, much better.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: on Golden Kamuy, the anime does a poor job translating some of the manga's greater moments and tone down the violence which I am not happy about. For example one of the soldier got his face ripped off as once by the bear, but in the anime they did it off screen
Kaiser-Eoghan
What I'm not so keen on : The stop and start pace, at first the Ainu 101 food thing was okay but its becoming superfluous.
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