Posted by psgels on 17 January 2013 with categories: Magi

Magi uses its three main characters in an interesting way: episodes in which all three of them are active are quite rare. First they all travelled separately, then Aladdin lost consciousness for an entire month. It’s quite interesting, actually.

Now, as for this episode… the politics… Alibaba sure came with some ridiculous ideas. It was definitely creative, though and I have to say that I did not expect this. If the rest of this series will focus on turning Balbadd into a democracy and the challenges that come into its way, it’s going to make for a pretty interesting conclusion.

Having said that though, there is one thing I realized this episode: Magi is a series based on middle eastern folklore, based on modern ideals. The slavery already was one hint for this: sure, it’s something terrible and all, but back in those days people just found it normal, and were more preoccupied with their own survival. Then this episode with Alibaba’s sudden decision to turn an entire monarchy into a republic overnight. It is that this series suddenly revealed that there are other republics in this world, but still: it just does scream “freedom! equality for all”. Idealistic and inspiring indeed, but historically accurate? Err… Not to mention breaking off an arranged marriage in those days. I’m not saying that this was bad or anything, though it did catch my attention.
Rating: 4/8 (Good)

38 Responses

  1. Rachnid says:

    yeah, the republic stuff kinda bothered me too. This series continues to convince me that its political stuff isn’t very well thought out, but I guess the message we should take away from this is “Alibaba is King material”. I did, however, like the part where tsundere princess used her position to “trick” Sinbad into visiting her, nothing more deliciously devious than abusing power on perfectly reasonable grounds.

    • Airies says:

      tsuncess is the only reason im still watching.

    • HunterWulf says:

      Isn’t well thought out !!!! .. are you kidding me !!!? the guy dodged an arranged marriage .. voided an agreement to sell the people of his kingdom as collateral to another kingdom .. entered the most powerful alliance in the world .. and finally turned his own kingdom into a democracy … all in one stroke .. that’s some of the BEST handling of politics in anime to date .. seriously.

      • Airies says:

        I think you missed the point about it being a modern mindset in a world were it should not be.

        • HunterWulf says:

          Well and you missed the point that there is NOTHING modern about any of the concepts mentioned here, the concepts of democracy and public assemblies where common people rule and have control are as ancient as the Greek civilization (if not more ancient than that), alliances between kingdoms and countries is an even older concept .. so what modern mindset are we talking about here exactly, there is no reason whatsoever the concepts mentioned this episodes can’t exist in that fantasy setting !!!?

          • Sei says:

            Because Greek is very Arabic indeed.

            I know Democracy exists in Ancient Greek and all.

            But if you write a story of ancient Chinese and pull that crap I will call you bullshit.

            The point is, politics is a result of economy and social development. I don’t think that the society in this setting will give birth to the concept of democracy at this time beings.

          • HunterWulf says:

            @Sai
            Now that’s just getting silly, this is -surprise- FICTION .. and ironically you are complaining about the most plausible/realstic thing in the entire damn series so far .. Alibaba didn’t sit in a room for ten days then came out with the concept of democracy or invented a nuclear bomb or something .. he traveled around and saw many other countries .. some of them were republics that apply the concept of democracy (like the GREEKS).. so he thought he might try that in order to save his kingdom .. and well .. hello .. that’s the whole freaking point of fiction .. this is a WHAT IF scenarios.

            And please, none of the cities here even existed, the letters used aren’t real Arabic, Arabic people in real life didn’t have 30 feet tall Djinn, nor did they have any magical dungeons .. so if a fictional Arabic character coming across the concept of democracy in a foreign country he saw during his travels and wanting to apply it to his own kingdom is far more plausible and historically accurate than anything else here XD

      • Rachnid says:

        Maybe I should rephrase, I wasn’t referring to the content per se. I totally agree it’s awesome, but that’s exactly why it didn’t really work, because it came out of Alibaba’s mouth, I don’t think we can believe at this point he is capable of such a feat. Sinbad? Maybe, but it might even be a stretch coming from him. It’s not that it can’t exist, but instead how and who brought it to that place that is the problem. I think you’re mixing up my opinion with psgels’. And even in his case, I think he just didn’t get the point across well enough, like what happened with my first comment.

  2. minstrel says:

    It’s done on purpose, that Alibaba’s naivety will result in tragedy. The politic will soon turn much more complicated to the point of confusing later on. I wish it would stay as a lighthearted adventure. The next arc would be my favorite arc, I can only stick until that part otherwise I’ll get a headache.

  3. Kaiserin Emma says:

    Now, while I still agree with Airies I however feel that the developments in this episode by the sound of it are acceptable given that this is after all simply just fiction.

  4. Deano says:

    “Idealistic and inspiring indeed, but historically accurate?”

    …and I suppose the giant blue magical guys popping out of metal vessals is ‘historically accurate’.

    Come on guys, its an anime show. Allow some artistic licence, or about 75% of all anime can be considered nonsense.

    • Hogart says:

      I don’t think anyone (psgels included) were really griping about it, just noticing it.

      But if you’re interested in debating it, there is a bit of a difference between “historical accuracy” and “physical accuracy”. Having supernatural entities is historically accurate in the sense that the original Arabian Nights mythos this is based on also had them.

      It’s just a bit jarring to see modern mentalities in a setting where they don’t really apply and so don’t quite blend in seamlessly if you’re aware of the mythos it’s based on (Disney-fication of a sort). As psgels said though, it’s not good or bad in and of itself, just jarring.

      • meaqui says:

        Nope, thats fiction;) Trying to apply rules of our reality doesnt make sense at all. As long as it serves its part in the story, every element is fine.
        But I get it – you dont like it;)

        • Kaiserin Emma says:

          @Meaqui and Deano: Ah, excellent both of you get it!

        • Rachnid says:

          Yes it’s fine, but believable and convincing? Not really. When it stands out like that, it’s saying that there is something inconsistent with the context of the setting, and that is where most of us who didn’t like it, i think, don’t like about it. Yes it is fiction, but things can be done in a way that is good or not so good. Alibaba convincing people about going democratic? not so good. From what we have been shown so far, there was no hint at all that democracy has been remotely conceived in that setting, especially with the rampant slavery. The only knowledge of that is given to us seconds AFTER Alibaba suggests it, hence the “jarring” experience. I don’t agree with the use of the word “historical accuracy” too. But I totally understand where psgels and Hogart come from.
          I think nobody is saying that it is bad in and of itself, really. It’s like hitting a road bump you did not expect, and some of us get hooked up on that more than others. Just like you’re about “historical accuracy” ;). Either way, we will all be watching the next episode.

        • Hogart says:

          I guess that’s about the thick of things, yes. In my case it’s simply being forced to compare it to 1001 Nights because they shoehorned their way into the mythos so forcefully. It strikes me as lazy, since I can otherwise enjoy this on its own merits. It’s the price I have to pay for being an overanalyzer, I guess.

  5. hoiut says:

    I feel the same way as psgels concerning the “setting” right now. Pretentious, self-righteous sermons about the beauty of democracy (and somehow equating that with equality) and modern values contrast jarringly with the setting, characters, supposed upbringing, political climate, source material, historical period (albeit one of fantasy), and to some extent, common sense.

    The ideals he spouted are the last thing a believable protagonist would desire after witnessing firsthand the influence of “powerful/good” kings (Sinbad, and to lesser extent his father) in contrast with the abject dependence of the masses and their propensity to easily be misguided by the likes of Kassim and HIS controller. The only lesson to be learned from those particular circumstances from a lad in his position is to install a different (and more powerful/noble) king. Or that revolts are “okay” now and then. But a circumstantially inconsistent and entirely uncalled-for change in the fundamental system of governance?

    Many anthropologists take issue today with the imposition of “western democracy” by Western Superpowers as an artifact of their ongoing cultural hegemony and neo-colonialist global tactics. If anything, the intricate system of financial domination proposed in earlier episodes (a country selling itself out of power/rights) is closer to the modern norm. It can be argued the vast majority of so-called “democratic regimes” in the world today are only successful because one was — and is — and that one is pulling the strings and propping up the others. Proto-democratic city-states of centuries past met overwhelmingly with complete failure, as any student of global history will tell you. And Rome isn’t an exception (or even a “democracy” by anything close to the modern standard).

    I have nothing against democracies. But one look at American history will tell you that without a hell of a lot of luck and the perfect geopolitical environment (not to mention a whole boatload of bloodshed and repeated indoctrination), there’s little chance the One Democracy would have come to fruition in the first place.

    Minstrel’s comment (third on this page as of my post) excites me for this reason, though, at the same time the execution this past episode frustrates me. This particular turn on the road to political intrigue may have been shoddily contrived, but if the destination holds potential, I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

    • HunterWulf says:

      Well you seem to think that Democracy is a new thing or as modern as USA .. it isn’t .. and America isn’t the first country to have democratic rule to use it as the main example in your comment … the concept of democracy and giving power to rule over to people and common folk is a very old concept … there are many types of democracies and many nations had their own brand of democracy .. Alibaba traveled a lot on his way to his kingdom and saw many nations .. one of them was probably like ancient Greece .. because if you want to talk about democracy in ancient times then we have Greeks who applied the concept of public assembly and democracy in many aspects of their lives and in many of their cities –>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_democracy … and they weren’t the only one’s who did that.

      • hoiut says:

        You got my point right, but your rebuttal misses the mark.

        The concepts and ideals Alibaba is using to try to create a democracy sound altogether too modern — which the Greek/Athenian version was certainly not (and notably faced heavy criticisms in its time…and today). Democracy was seen as usurping the natural order and quite arbitrary by many scholars of the period. It resulted because of the permeation of philosophy and intellectualism throughout the state and the shabby treatment of the poor by the rich who were running the economy into the ground — the same final stimulus that occurs in Magi.

        But the characteristics of the people, the climate, the social system, and the region’s history make concepts such as these laughable in context, and would not be rationally proposed by a Prince who observed firsthand the corruption of the people’s will by external influence (something that didn’t happen in Greece). Also, a common feature of all early democracies (with the exception of one city-state): they failed. Often miserably.

        That’s not to say some concepts we associate as being “democratic” (or of “people’s republic”) are necessarily part of a particular system. “Almost all cultures have at some time had their new leaders approved, or at least accepted, by the people; and have changed the laws only after consultation with the assembly of the people or their leaders.” — Wikipedia

        ^ ^ So, totally this. This is what I was getting at — Alibaba would have rationally been more inclined to install/become a new, strong king with popular support. It is next to impossible to establish legislative legitimacy without some form of popular consent (btw, the method of extracting such consent doesn’t have to be pleasant to modern ears).

        “America isn’t the first country to have democratic rule to use it as the main example in your comment” — you bet your bottom dollar it is. I am as convinced of this as I am convinced the author only hoists this idealism into his work as a result of living under its modern (American) incarnation. That or the author is far smarter than his naive young protagonist and has plenty of turmoil and sociopolitical criticism in store for his new state.

  6. Sheba says:

    From Ali Baba’s point of view, the democracy was the best solution he could come up with. He saw that his brothers were not fit as kings, he knew that he don’t have the shoulders to stand the burden of power. The best he could do was to give the power to people, or at least a council representing the people. Remember that there are many forms of democracy as well many forms of monarchy. Ali Baba needs to exercise before finding the best compromise that will work for every parties. What he have proposed is just the first step.

  7. HunterWulf says:

    How are the politics not historically accurate !!? .. democracy and public assemblies aren’t modern things .. they are as old as Greek civilization if not older (and Greeks weren’t the only ones to apply the concept of democracy either .. many ancient civilizations did) .. so what historical inaccuracy are we talking about here ?

    • Sei says:

      oh, yeah, the all so mighty Greek again.

      The point is, social advance must be logical. Character action and choice must be logical with their life experience. It’s called consistence.

      WE KNOW that Democracy exists in ancient Greek, but please NOTE that different kind of society give birth to different kind of politics and they will have some other kind of advance. I cannot see that Alibaba could pull that ideal out of his head without the author putting words into his mouth.

      The thing is, that Democracy stuff is literally out of nowhere.

      Politics is difficult to handle, and I don’t think the author of this series could handle it well. As for now I guess we will just see some shallow development that lend way to some cheesy drama, which is not so rare in media nowadays. Not so good, but well nothing out of expectation.

      • HunterWulf says:

        I don’t know if you were asleep during the episode or what, but Alibaba didn’t make this up in his head .. .. i repeat .. he didn’t come up with this by himself.. he saw many EXAMPLES on his travels to his way home .. some of the countries/kingdoms he came across were ALREADY republics and he WITNESSED how they rule and how it is much better than the other monarchies .. it didn’t come out of nowhere.

        And seriously, the series handled politics very well so far .. i don’t know about your expectations but they seem pretty darn unrealistic.

        • kazid1 says:

          Totally agree Hunter, this posts have to much biased comments, “historically accurate?”??? wth? Magi is nottt a historicall anime and repeat “not” is based in 1001 nigths but is not only based in that material, the autor build a whole new world that no enter in the logic of the real world, thus the historicall argument is totally invalid. Second: of course the democracy concept is very weird at first glance but if you put atention to the show is the most convenient solution to the problem Also Alibaba do this knowing that his arguments have to much flaws, but also knowing that other factors are in his favour. For example the imperial princess clearly not want to marry that pig. The other brother is follow him blinded, The king previously have lost to much credits, and others factors, Common I have seen politics whit far more idiots arguments and win, is not about the logical of the argument but the psicological influence they have, the people want a great change, ok I would offer this big change. And the revolutions starts. Also Hunter and the anime explained that in THAT WORLD Republics have been established and Alibaba based his arguments in this. Third. This chapeter is not a wierd follow up that came of nowwere clearly Alibaba was thinking all over past chapters how to save Balbad and finish whit this conclusion. So is a logical follow up. Sorpresive but logical.

          In the end Magi is to much over the top, but are people that not liked how the autor manages this history and is plausible. But for something Magi is the 9 in manga Japan rattings and i this is not for being the tipical shounen manga.

          • Green says:

            Asking a shounen to be historically accurate is too much. The Arabic nights setting was used as a foundation. Example full metal alchemist, zetsuen no tempest, naruto, one piece, ruroni kenshin etc etc. alchemist, ninja pirates and samurai portrayal, none of that were historically accurate. Alchemist, samurai ninja doesn’t work like that. They weren’t meant to be historically accurate. Have everyone forgotten what fiction means? Furthermore it’s shounen.

      • hoiut says:

        Very true. And the democracies he claims to have seen are the icing on the cake of unbelievableness.

        I would propose that Alibaba simply mistook what he saw — or saw only what he wanted to see, and that wasn’t necessarily democracy. He simply saw the leaders supported by the people and who involve them (or take into account their concerns) when forming new laws.

        • HunterWulf says:

          He never used the word democracy .. he said the people in those republics made their choices by themselves .. whether they had public assemblies or were ruled by an elected ruler or by a parliament or a senate is unknown to us as he never gave the details of how those republics worked .. the fact stays that there is NOTHING unbelievable about it .. as the concept of public assemblies and democracy is as old as dirt .. it just wasn’t as widely spread as it is today.

          In fact it’s pretty much one of the few believable things around in the show (same as the negative effects of having a valueless paper currency forced on you instead of using gold or silver coins that have inherent value and global acceptance for use in trade)

          • hoiut says:

            No. Good sir, with these ridiculous assumptions you betray you know too little of their historical scope and context to use them as evidence.

            Yes, the concepts of democracy (people-rule) are ancient. Everyone today knows this. Everyone who has passed through middle school. Thank you for the insight anyway.

            But I can’t understand why you fail to grasp that there were no successful examples in the middle east.

            It would be wise to do a little reading (or go back to sit in on a middle school world history class) before applauding the feasibility of an Arabian/Persian prince suggesting democracy (republic).

            Points to consider:
            – There were no documented democracies in the middle east in any time point corresponding to the original or historically re-imagined Thousand and One Nights. This makes his “I saw ’em around, you know, here and there around the region” a product of his own (or his author’s) wishful interpretation of “hybrid-type” local regimes with a central autocrat. Maybe he mistook a small city council meeting for a scalable, non-autocratic political model. Maybe he just saw nice kings deferring to the people.
            – From the collapse of the Roman Republic to the mid 1800’s the pervading sentiment surrounding the Athenian model was extremely negative and critical by (even Western!) political thinkers, who considered it “mob rule.”

  8. Green says:

    Forrest Gump uses historical events as references and were never meant to be historically accurate. In fact most references were to point of being ridiculous.

  9. Rachnid says:

    The point is…the anime has failed to have us believe that Alibaba is capable of conceiving the idea of democracy, (please don’t assume that we’re all ignorant about democracy, even if we were, Alibaba’s lines about it existing in other countries should have been enough to convince us, but it didn’t, and that says something). That is an indisputable fact, since me and some other people here seem to share the same feelings. I think we are all also willing to overlook it if the coming events at least try to make an attempt to address this. It’s quite common that serialized manga pull something like this, what we need to see is how it deals with it later on. Who knows, maybe the next episode will have all it needs to resolve this.

    • Rachnid says:

      “conceiving” is not a good word, i’m aware he did not invent it. I meant “capable of thinking of using democracy as a solution”

    • Anca says:

      >That is an indisputable fact, since me and some other people here seem to share the same feelings.

      Heh.

      Anyway, I agree with HunterWulf. Democracy in an old as dirt concept, and Alibaba has been shown to be educated and well-traveled. I did find the scene jarring initially – because it came out of nowhere, but it was easy to accept once I thought a bit about it. The show should have foreshadowed it better, but there was nothing wrong with the concept itself.

      And since the manga was written by a modern mind, I’ll bet my knickers that the republic will fail spectacularly.

  10. momotsu says:

    It very amused for me to see you guys critique with Alibaba’s democratic idea is out of no where, though he clearly said that he saw this system work well in other regime while he was traveling.

    hmm

    • Kina says:

      Maybe they want some flashback or proof of Ailbaba’s travels to other places where the cities/town have democracy. Personally, I read the manga so its pretty funny how everyone nitpicking about how historically inaccurate/accurate or out of place Ailbaba’s proposed idea about establishing a republic is when later on in the manga everything is explain/playout. I don’t wanna say any spoilers so just have some patience lol. I really recommend reading the manga though because it is really well written and interesting.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
AidanAK47
@Anon, I actually liked that aspect. It made the history of the world feel real.
Anonymous1409027
It's compressible, as there are many episodes of buildup, but that's where so many of the interesting details and depth of planning become evident. Some of those episodes read like a history textbook though, so we'll see how the new adaptation handles them,
Anonymous1409027
*pleasantly
KTravlos
Tytania was ok.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the Amakusa Shiro reference in the fate review, I've seen a film about him from the 50s , theres also an old josei manga where the protagonist ends up becoming essentially regarded as him.
KTravlos
Hi Kaiser. Supposedly this is a re-imagining of the original story. Thus independent of the OVAs (old serieis). What exactly re-imagining means is something I and you do not know. We shall see. But it does mean that you do not need to watch the old series to enjoy this one. The OVA was definetly more expansive than the novels. So my guess is they will stick to the novels.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There's another anime, called Tytania based on his novels but I haven't seen that series.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As in condensable in the way nothing much is lost? I assume there are fillers in the original?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm indifferent to the aesthetics of the new version. What I'm hoping for is that it will be accessible to newcomers and that I'll be able to jump on to the old series where the new one leaves off. I've seen very little of the original and it was a long time ago, is there any way the story is condensable?
KTravlos
The fact that they stayed away from the disgusting new manga is great. I am not too keen on the CGI ships, but they also did not rankle. It looks like it will honor the spirit of the old series, and I cannot ask for more. I am a massive LOGH fan. And the new video out gives me hope of revisiting one of the greatest sci-fi/historical settings out there. I am happy.
AidanAK47
I hope they are using the old anime as a base and not the new Manga adaption. As that Manga adaption is seriously lacking.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I like that they blinged up the space battles which is good because those things could get tiresome. But I really hate the design of Yang Wenli. They made him look so much younger and bishi. I don't think i could take this guy seriously if he started one of Wenli's signature hypothesis.
Anonymous1408919
Thoughts on that new LOGH PV? My expectations were low, so I'm presently surprised. Obviously they made everybody pretty boys, and Mamoro Miyano is voicing Reinhard I believe. But art and animation actually looks pretty decent overall. It's a PV, and LOGH's best quality is it's story and characters, so we'll have to see if they remain faithful or not. But it's nice to see it get a visual overhaul.
AidanAK47
By the way this site has the first chapters but check the other versions to find them.
http://mangapark.me/manga/tsurezure-children-wakabayashi-toshiya
AidanAK47
@Mario, Indeed. It's also a pity that over half the couples in the manga were not featured. We only got a small taste of Patricia.
SuperMario
Or maybe I'll try to read the manga. The last time I checked it online, the site doesn't have its first few chapters
SuperMario
@Aidan: man, Tsurezure Children sure is sweet. Really sad to see it ends
AidanAK47
So that's the end of Tsurezure Children.
....I'm gonna need a second season. Now.
....NOW GODDAMNIT! NOW!
KTravlos
As I said I understand the criticisms to RE:Creator, but ultimately I enjoyed most of the show. It could had been better, and it is a missed chance. But I have seen worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I gave up halfway through, there weren't even enough action scenes and those that were didn't justify waiting around for.
AidanAK47
Could have at least delivered on the action but that was rendered pointless due to the majority of the cast turning good and Altair being a complete cheat character.
AidanAK47
It would have been really fun to see characters discuss their stories with their creators or indulge in what our world has to offer but they really glossed over that part.
AidanAK47
It really should have gone deeper into the whole meta aspect introducing anime characters to the real world. Like they did with Mamika's powers being ridiculously destructive when outside a kid friendly setting.
AidanAK47
@Puran, I at least like the message of the final episode. But as for the show itself it was just missed potential on a lot of levels. I wanted Anime Genre battle royale and instead got a secondhand Shirobako with a crap shounen anime attached.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have been forgiving of Anno as I've gotten older.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I also just re-watched gunbuster, I'd previously dismissed the ova after a few episodes when I was a teenager, I'd found it too slow, didn't have that issue with the 90 minute version I just finished. I've never see the sequels.
Lenlo
Ill have to finish Creators... at some point
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've been dipping back into the Lupin franchise, Gold of babylon was particularly screwball, kind of ridiculous comedy caper/adventure thing you just have to run with....turns out it was directed by a live action filmaker I especially like who made bizzare noir films in the 60s.
Puran
So that explains why Meteora had so much air time in Re:Creators. It's her story....

I hated the ending and I disliked the anime overall.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was a genuine surprise to see that Assayas decided to make a film framed around hentai =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I loved how incoherent demonlover was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The criticisms I'll give wind river, is a slight inconsistent performance from Renner and that very awkwardly inserted flashback scene.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: on Wind River, I agree it's a well-executed case of the week drama, although there are some plot pregressions that I don't get (how did they find out about the man's corspe again?). About Demonlover, man, the film gives me a chill down my spine. Heartless. And a bit misogynist.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: as much as I loved Wong (yeah I too prefer him over Malick), sometimes I do think Western cinema give him too much praise that sadly overshadow other Asian directors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wong is important to me as a hong-kong filmaker, he offers something entirely different from the whole Woo/Lam Hong komg movies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On a more positive note Maggie Cheung did mention that she felt her early work with Wong was when she first truly became a proper actress.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I had no idea he had such a sad background.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*investigation drama
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that film also marked/ signified a rather sad period of Hongkong showbiz. Leslie Cheung badically lived the live of the protagonist and commited suicide in 1997. His girlfriend on screen, during the filming, was kidnaped, raped and taken topless picture. The damnest thing is that everyone knowed the culprit but did nothing, and in the press it was just deemed as "kipnapped and assaulted"
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Wind river was a big surprise for me, just goes to show that with the right execution an ordinary police drama movie can be elevated higher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thats the interesting thing, tracking a directors career.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Just binge watched the new dominion tank police ovas , admittedly these are kind of reptitive and extremely silly but its hard to hate on something so shamelessly fun that made me feel like a child again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: you said it there. DoBW is rather raw and unpolished but that's one of the reason why I am drawn to it more compare to his other works.
AidanAK47
In all honesty, it would be nice to finally see a continuation after fusion as all games after that have just been adding chapters in-between.
Vonter
Finally I wonder, if Metroid Prime 4 will definitely branch out of the main Metroid's continuity. It's curious how an interquel subseries is still going to add things in between the first and the second entries in the main franchise.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - I think is nice we can see both takes. Especially since neither one despite a few qualms are still very solid entries for this franchise. I just hope Metroid moves forward, as IMO this is the only game that really needed a facelift do to the heavy limitations of the gameboy. And I hope the secret gallery at the end is teasing how the producer plans to move the plot forward.
AidanAK47
I thought it might be like that but it's good to know they are at least on a close level. I didn't really want Samus Returns to replace AM2R as the "Definitive" version of Metroid 2. Mostly because a lot of love was put into AM2R andit came at a point when it felt Nintendo didn't give a crap about Metroid.
Vonter
Like Zero Mission there's something added to Samus Returns but I'll just leave it at that.
Vonter
I think both have strong points. Samus Returns have better boss battles, gameplay mechanics and more intense action pieces. AM2R IMO has more atmosphere, takes advantage of elements Nintendo don't even try like the Federation subplot, and the ending portion narratively has more heart in AM2R, while in Samus Returns it feels mostly like "the final level".
Vonter
I also did got lost a couple of times in Samus Returns and aside from the big water section in AM2R, the latter is more linear game.
Vonter
I think the controls in Samus Returns bring more to the table though. The 360 aiming makes for better ways to shoot enemies and some of the bosses take advantage of that. If it weren't for the 3DS giving hand cramps because you're holding L and R at several points it'll be completely the most ideal way to play.
Vonter
AidanAK47 - AM2R is very good, I think it has the advantage that because it uses sprites IMO backgrounds and enemies are more vibrant and easier to appreciate. The Federation soldiers are better executed in AM2R and that secret section with the ship is very eery.
AidanAK47
@Vonter, How does it stack up to AM2R? I bought it and am still waiting on it to be delivered but I have the feeling that AM2R would be the better game when comparing.
Vonter
I took me 12 hours to 100% and I've heard the best ending is beating it in less than 4 hours. I think unlike Zero Mission item percentage don't matter, it's mainly to unlock an art gallery.
Vonter
My main criticism is this being a 3DS game. Small enemies can be hard to see or appreciate. And I think the 3DS wasn't made for heavy action packed games like this or Smash Bros. I got the rubber from the circle pad come off in two occasions. Also unless there was something big in the background, several areas felt lacking in detail. Still Samus and the bosses look good.
Vonter
In terms of difficulty, the game has the enemies packing more damage than in other 2D Metroids. Is difficult in the sense than you can't tank damage as in other iterations, you have to be aware of enemy behavior and bosses mainly get easier do to familiarizing with their patterns, since I did die a lot each time I faced a new boss. And got used to kill them faster as I went along.
Vonter
Ok, so I beat Samus Returns. It's quite good. Unlike Fusion that had dialogue at midst the gameplay. Samus Returns only has a prologue of exposition and any cutscenes mainly accentuate the reactions of Samus confronting a new enemy. The level design is dense, despite having isolated areas like in Fusion and the original Samus Returns, each area is very mazelike.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: =< Awww I kind of like demonlover actually despite all its flaws, it had great sound design and had this cold, clinical, un-nerving mood to it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Days of being wild does feel a bit un-realized/un-polished/rough compared to his other work definitely but its probably the rawest I've seen from him and that has its appeal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Haven't seen farewell my concubine come to think of it. Regarding the scifi element I felt I embraced it more further into the film when it started to intermingle more.
While I am more forgiving toward Malick's recent films than most, that decline in quality means I have to pick Wong.
KTravlos
by the way in RE:Creators we probably will be getting a future series focusing on the hunt for Magane :p Meteora probably playing the role of detective. I also bet her novel will be wordy and heavy in exposition :p
KTravlos
i.e his end game might had been a cross-species revolution against him anyway. We will see
KTravlos
In Bahamut Chris proves to not be totally evil, but he is totally crazy. That said I am seeing one of my hunches getting supported, the hunch was that his cruelty towards daemons was with the purpose of bringing them down enough that they would be willing to work with humans as euals (As they are in Jean's army) and thus via that create a more unified world. I
KTravlos
RE: Creators has come to its end. I know the problems everyone has with it, and while it failed to raise to the level of exceptional show, I loved it. As I said, it had been years since a show kept me so excited episode after episode. They blew it at some point, but ultimately for me this is an en-joyful show, and one I would happily binge watch in the future again.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: question for you though, between these two directors, which one do you prefer: Wong Kar-Wai or Terrance Malick?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: if you enjoyed both 2046 and In the Mood for Love, by all mean check out Days of Being Wild. The trio forms a loose trilogy and Days of Being Wild was the first film that Wong began his unique unconventional style. It's one of my personal favorite of Wong and it's a chance for you to watch the late Leslie Cheung acted (you might watch him already in Farewell My Concubine)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: 2046 is indeed a passionate film, and one of his best looking film. He tried something different in 2046 too, experimented with scifi (one of the best part in the film for me)
SuperMario
@Kaiser: it's stritcly Wong Kar Wai's romance we're talking about, since I don't find the rest of Chinese take on romance that interesting. Romance or melodrama is one of his main theme throughout his career
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: It was slightly overly long however.
I've also seen chungking express, in the mood for love and fallen angels. I think this Chinese take on romance is really clicking with me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I also thought it was a very passionette film and I love how Kar-wong-wai uses the music in it. I also think its one of his best looking films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I had a look at that Chinese film 2046, very effectively melancholic take on fleeting relationships while also successfully being quite sensual while staying classy and without ever showing too much. Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung are two beautiful people =P
SuperMario
for those who still want to catch up with 18if, episode 11 has a huge recap, while wrapping up the show with a new overarching plot. Hopefully they don't pull another Matrix here
SuperWooper
It's shounen-y for sure. The competitions have been my least favorite parts of the show so far. If you're still watching, you might appreciate it more once the Tenpei Cup is over.
Anonymous1399692
Damn Ballroom looks so good. But I really can't enjoy it despite that I want to. It has too many of these typical shounen moments and plot points I can't stand.
Anonymous1399684
Omae wa mou shindeiru
Lenlo
Mononoke is actually what made me find Ayakashi. Also a good show.
SuperMario
Regarding Ayakashi, I only watched the Mononoke segment
SuperMario
"It was a long, long trip, and we're coming finally to the end of the journey. Thank you, Manoyama and Chupacabra. And thank you, 5 EURO" - Sandal-san.
Lenlo
Ayakashi was great for me Kaiser. I enjoyed my time with it
Vonter212
@AidanAK47 - The hard aspect has been commented in several reviews with bosses being able to easily kill you. (Although in my experience it might be just getting a pattern). In terms of length most 2D games can be beaten under 3 hours. This one seems to clock at at least 6 to 15 if you want to collect everything. Then again, we'll see in subsequent playthroughs.
AidanAK47
`@Vonter. It's out now but I don't remember seeing anyone claim it's the longest hardest entry 2D wise.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Going to watch new dominion tank police next and read violence action and Oddman 11.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It took me years to get round to it, but I finally watched Ayakashi and as expected like most anthologies, again its mixed, the first is a solid ghost story that improves after a weak start, but that third one with the cat spirit was great, really liked how experimental that looked.
Vonter
Soo a new Metroid comes out this week. It is said, it's the longest, hardest entry in regards to the 2D iterations. Still not as great as Super, and depending on your fanaticism it might or not be as good as Zero Mission.
SuperMario
But they didn't pull that scene off too well. It's just... unmemorable. In fact the whole show is very unremarkable. Now only 1 episode left I might as well finish it but I won't give it a full review
SuperMario
Koi to Uso has been disappointing so far. Episode 10 featured the sequence that i was looking forward the most in the manga: the former classmate tells the one sided crush of the main girl from her POV. For a romance that contrived and manipulated like this one, hearing this from the third person's perspective prove to be more powerful
Vonter
@HelghastKillzone - Good luck with that. I almost had my car's engine damaged since it has been raining heavily where I live. Had to ask for help the next day to pull it out of mud. Still not as bad as the other three cars that did get stuck in the water.
HelghastKillzone
Dealing with work and the total loss of my car really sucks at the moment so I'm quite tied up for this week.
KTravlos
I do agree to a point, but to be frank all the episodes of Princess Principal to date have been so solid I have a hard time deciding. Episode 5 though was still the best from a holistic point (action, direction, music etc) was the one introducing Chise
SuperMario
Agree. Dorothy has the biggest heart out of all the spy girls. Also "help" that her episodes are all melodramatic.
Amagi
This episode of PrinPrin showed again that Dorothy is the best character by far. Not just herself but her episodes as well are better written than the rest if you ask me.
KTravlos
It just hit me. The characters in Princess Principal may be very well working for IngSoc :p
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, in the seven chapters it's only really two of them that contain dark shocking content. Chapter three being the biggest one in that regard.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I read a comment where someone said subahibi shocked them more than saya no uta. While I haven't played it yet, I have seen some of a letsplay...it lleft me thinking....how many hours until this actually gets good/truly unhinged .
AidanAK47
After Reading SubaHibi, Made in Abyss's dark turn didn't shock me too much. Maybe I just got desensitised. I will have a review of SubaHibi hopefully up in a week though to clarify my feelings on it after just finishing it, It was interesting but disappointing.
KTravlos
well, well. Both Made in the Abyss and Virgin Soul do not hold back. Grim! RE:Creators is warping up. Comparing with these other shows I can fully appreciate the problems people have with it. But still I am glad I am sticking to the end. Altair's voice actor by the way did great.
AidanAK47
@Helghast, And Kings Field was the Demon Souls before Demon Souls came out.
KTravlos
having binge watched several of this season's shows I would say Princess Principal is the most rounded. Made in Abyss is good. Kakegurui and The Reflection as SuperMario said will depend on your tastes. There is also Shouko no Altair. You will like it if you liked Tanya Saga of Evil, or Legend of Galactic Heroes, or Arslan Senki or manga like Vinland Saga, Gunka no Baltzar, and especially Historie
Anonymous1385641
Jesus...me watching this weeks Made in Abyss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogzsWhZcmM
HelghastKillzone
So... Demon Souls was the Dark Souls before Dark Souls came out.
SuperMario
@anon1385426: the safest bets aside from Made in Abyss are Welcome to the Ballroom and Princess Principal. Kakegurui and the Refection are for more acqurired taste
Anonymous1385426
Aside from Made in Abyss, what's the best anime this season?
Lenlo
@KT, the pacing and the framerate early on are my two biggest issues. Later on the story starts to get abit more engaging, and they start doin things I didnt expect, but the pacing is still there. Some akward pauses.
Lenlo
Look, Berserk and Dark Souls are both amazing. But I only have 3 Dark Souls games, and 38 Berserk volumes. Im clearly biased
KTravlos
I sat down and watched the first 4 episodes of The Reflection. It is an interesting attempt, and I can see the people making it having fun doing so. But I did notice a pacing issue. For some reason the episodes felt like they dragged a bit too long.
AidanAK47
Dark Souls is the Berserk of Video Games.
Amagi
Dark Souls really went all Berserk if you ask me
AidanAK47
I am not one for putting down law but can we never ever compare anything to Dark Souls ever again? Cause it's actually become really tiresome how everything is the dark souls of something.
Lenlo
No other sentence has made me want to watch Made in Abyss more
HelghastKillzone
I guess we're finally at the point where Made in Abyss goes all Dark Souls/Bloodborne.
Amagi
Apo's Jack the Ripper had at least a nice idea behind it, it's just the clothes that are a bad choice. But there are just too many lolis for the sake of fanservice in that game. I accept it if there is at least a reason for this but it's usually just random.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here. I was never a fan of genderbendings and turning historical people into lolis. The first one I can accept with people like Arthuria because it added a lot to her character, but most of them are just plain and generic. I just see no reason why pirates, grown up men or Blavatsky would ever appear as little girls. Especially since popular beliefs should influence their appearance.
SuperMario
On Altair, one commenter did an excellent job of poiting out the appeal of that show; and frankly the show is wearing on me now.
SuperMario
@Travlos: I'm glad you enjoy Princess Principal. I'm quite surprised myself that in the latter half the show slowed its pace down which mean the focus is switched from action to more characters interactions; which I greatly enjoy
KTravlos
Well I binge watched Princess Principal. That is a very good show. I was surprised. Good animation, good music, the art is good, hell I even did not mind the protagonist art. But what I really like is the stories. All the episode were pretty solid and interesting.
AidanAK47
Just won a fight by the skin of my teeth thanks to my Lancer, Cu Chulainn. You the man Cu!
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Been playing Grand Order myself. It's rather fun. There are some good original character in it but I notice with Quantity certain figures designs were pretty terrible. I thought Assassins of black was the worst but some Grand Order servents manage to top it in terrible. Why all the bikini's?
Amagi
Fate/GO has quite some interesting original characters there. Wish we'd see them in some actual manga or anime series with more backstory someday. - I also like that we finally have an overpowered, interesting and competent Hassan with King Hassan for once. His design is metal AF too.
KTravlos
Binge watched Altair. The pacing of the show is a problem, but in general the raw material is good. Altair is sympathetic, and the world is interesting. But I do feel this is the kind of show that would had gained by a Monster or LOGH type treatment. Also, man it is scary how accurate they got some of the traits of Greeks (Phoenicians in the show). I am a Greek, I should know! :p
KTravlos
forgot to mention. I saw the 91 Days special. Three side stories that give some depth to the events in the main anime, but nothing that goes beyond it's end. Still they were in general ok to good.
SuperWooper
It's got Jude Law playing "this kind of huge robot butler called Charles, who is also a rocket ship." What could possibly go wrong?
AidanAK47
Anime with Jaden Smith? Um..I don't know about this.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: one of the good thing about SoL shows like Centaur and even 18if is that their episodes are self-contained, so you can just jump right in to watch the good ones and ignore the rest
SuperMario
I just love Chise's presence so I might enjoy the last episode more than anyone else. But yeah I'm quite satisfied with Princess Principal right now
AidanAK47
Actually I am quite surprised Princess Principal hasn't gone off the rails yet. Might even turn out to be a fun show in the end. If the man can make it to the finish line without a misstep.
AidanAK47
Hey I am having fun with my Shows. Made in Abyss is still quite excellent and Fate/Apoc is picking up. Even started playing Fate/Grand Order.
Lenlo
Man, sounds like I was the only one to have a good week with their show. Reflection really stepped it up this week in pretty much every category. Not sure it will last, but hey. Ill take one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm so disappointed in 18...if. Perfect opportunity to capitalize on something with a dreamlike feel to it and be creative only it ends up getting held back.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I see Vonter and Mario are seducing me into watching Centaur.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*can't
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can'y see myself giving re creators a second chance, and from skimming these conversations, why should the show only get going at the end? It just sounds like too little too late.
AidanAK47
Honestly that's what Re:Creators biggest issue is. It builds up these great interesting idea's and then refuses to capitalize on them.
AidanAK47
Then it would be a battle to win over the audience and he who entertains them the most would get the most power. Just think of how many interesting ways that would take the fight. Like Altair could lose power and have to win over the crowd with her backstory and theatrics. A hero could purposefully get beaten to hell just so they can get a powerup from saying a boastful speech about kicking ass.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Exactly. Now there is an interesting fighting element. Imagine if both Altair and the heroes had to fight with the limitation of keeping the audience entertained. Altair couldn't pull out overpowered nonsense because the audience wouldn't approve and her power would drop. Same goes for the heroes.
Anonymous1378112
On the other hand I am not a fan of this whole final arc. It's just not believable to me to gather such a big audience who will do nothing but watch and accept everything you show them. Not to mention that the show is technically live acting to them. Considering how much anime fanbases already hate the DN movie and stuff I doubt many would sit there and accept that
Anonymous1378112
@Aidan: This made me pretty angry. like, they wasted a ton of screentime with these boring info dumps and now they're just irrelevant and the enemy just fucks over it
AidanAK47
Actually the last development was actually a screw the rules moment as well. So the only way to beat Altair is to just chuck aside the rules established with the last 20 episodes.
AidanAK47
You don't need to give Altair a creator in order to to limit her. You just need her to obey the rules the entire series has spent time setting up. Altairs actions are just handwaved with "Screw the rules! I am a OC" audence acceptance doesn't seem to make a difference.
AidanAK47
@KTravlos, The creators have incredibly limited power as while they can introduce anything, it won't be effective unless the audience approves of it. Altair can pull whatever she wants without limit. If anything I don't understand why the audence isn't shouting for her to get nerfed seeing as some random indie character is wrecking fan favourite characters.
Vonter212
@SuperMario - Centaur Worries is the equivalent of Every Flavour Beans. You don't know what you're gonna get, bad, good, cringe, cool, deep, superficial, etc. While the gore isn't that graphic, it is still violent for this kind of show and the alien part has some disturbing body horror, for this show. The shock is mainly because of how light hearted everything else is.
SuperMario
I just watched Centaur, it was heavy as hell, but really poetic in tying these 2 half episodes together. God, it's excellent. And I don't mid the show's constant tonal shifts at all
KTravlos
@Aidan I have to disagree with you. Altair's overpowering does not bother me too much. a) If you think about it, it is their only choice, as creators also have immense power. There only other option would be to give Altair her own Creator, but that would turn this to just a Fate copy. So I am ok with what they have done. b) they do explain it world-wise so it does not come out of the blue
KTravlos
A nice overview of the alternative history genre, but more importantly the work of Kawaguchi http://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/the-mike-toole-show/2017-09-04/.120893
SuperMario
@Vonter: the manga has gore and alien? Really? Now that's interesting
SuperMario
... genre often does. For me its unfocusness works for its benefit. We don't know for sure what we gets each time and that's the main reason I still looking forwards to it every week
SuperMario
@Vonter: I haven't caught up with Centaur's this week but I heard it tackles Holocaust so I'm all in. It's not something cute girl
Vonter
Wow, Centaur Worries, took some really heavy themes this episode. The softy in me, found them powerful, but the cynic in me thinks it might have been a touch manipulative, since this show has interesting ideas, but lacks focus. One episode is cute, another progressive, another ecchi, and another the holocaust. Makes me wonder if they'll show the gore and the aliens from the manga.
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