Posted by psgels on 28 January 2013 with categories: Psycho Pass

And the system just continues to break down. Previously we were introduced to the rare case in which someone kills whilbe being perfectly mentally healthy. This time the dominators are limited even more by devies that mimic the Psycho Passes of others. I can only see this escalate and get better.

Also kudos to the directors in this episode. First of all, the gore in this series really hits the mark, especially the part where that woman was being beaten to death and how everyone just looked on. It most of all showed how desensitized to problems and violence this society is, and I was really at the edge of my seat. Later, when Makishima started kicking ass I noticed that we’re really talking about Production IG here: it’s been a while since they’ve done a fight scene like that, but I really like the style of trying to be as realistic as possible. That only makes it hurt more.

The one criticism I do have is that everyone is lumped together in this series. I would have liked to see in the minds of those bystanders for example, and why they found it interesting to film that incident. That really was the first time where we really got a good view of what was wrong with the Psycho Pass society, but it’s not in much detail. I’d like some attention on tha in the next few episodes, because it also serves as a good backup for Makishima’s motivations.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Excellent)

52 Responses

  1. Cytl says:

    I guess now we know why Kogami couldn’t shoot the chainsaw guy from the first episode. This episode really felt like an upgrade in plot intensity, production AND cruelty (episode 11 aside). Right now this is the show I look forward the most of what I’m currently watching.

    • Loz says:

      You literally said what I was going to say haha. The first scene from the show makes so much sense now after watching this episode. It looks like things are only going to escalate further.

  2. boa_sting says:

    Well, the person-dying-(or dead, or getting beat down)-and-nobody-stops-to-help thing happens in modern-day society not that infrequently too. I guess these are the kinds of easy opportunities you get when working with science fiction (loosely speaking, in the broadest sense of the genre), to draw references from or make comments about the current day.

    To be honest, I’m not sure if all of the exposition in the past couple episodes on the system and Psycho Pass is really that necessary. Of course, we’re nowhere near seeing the end yet, but I feel like sometimes drawing too many lines and fleshing details out can limit the scope of possibilities and interpretations. There’s a fine line between providing too much structure and too little, where events seem unmotivated / plot holes abound / Deus ex machina.

    That said, it looks like Makishima’s got plenty left up his sleeves. Overall I’d say that things are shaping up well for this show.

    • Puran says:

      The problem with the exposition is that it doesn’t really add a lot to the setting. It keeps showing ways where the system sucks and fails. It’s like the series desperetaly keeps trying to convince us about something that was apparent from the start: Sybil is flawed and sucks.

      At this point I have completely sided with Makishima (well, minus the whole killing people thing…).

      • HunterWulf says:

        Well, you are only assuming things that has never been elaborated upon at all, the Sybil system was made for a reason .. probably at some point crime rates hit an extremely high point that normal cops and methods weren’t working at all in terms of stopping crimes from happening (rather than clearing the mess and capturing the criminal after he/she commits the crime) .. so they thought the more effective way to deal with things is to remove criminals from society before they muster enough will to commit their crimes .. which is in fact very effective.

        The way you assume Sybil is flawed and sucks is extremely short-sighted and flawed in and of itself .. with the exception of the first episode (guy refusing to take medication and resisting arrest by taking hostage) every single crime that happened is propagated by Makshima Shogo .. crime rates are probably extremely low (which means Sybil did a great job in that regard) and that’s what the scene with the woman being beaten to death while everyone watches silently SHOWS CLEARLY .. people were sanitized and didn’t do anything because crimes like these don’t happen anymore (becasue of the extremely low crime rates) and they couldn’t comprehend what was happening.

        Shogo isn’t doing what he is doing becasue Sybil is flawed and sucks .. he is doing it becasue he is convinced that life isn’t worth it if you don’t live it fully .. he believes that human awareness and instincts are more valuable than human life and that humans who don’t have those aren’t humans anymore .. that’s why he is doing what he is doing .. Sybil doesn’t suck and no system no matter how elaborate can be perfect .. so saying it is flawed is silly .. of course it is .. any and all systems made by humans are flawed .. but compared to other systems Sybil is far less flawed (mainly because of people like Shogo being able to slip between the tiny cracks).

        So just saying “It’s like the series desperetaly keeps trying to convince us about something that was apparent from the start: Sybil is flawed and sucks” shows you haven’t been paying enough attention to what the show is trying to say here .. every scene counts.

        • Da5id says:

          So why don’t they have episodes that focus on the system’s benefits instead of how bad it is at enforcing the law?

          • HunterWulf says:

            That’s left for the viewer who use their brains to deduce (and it ain’t rocket science) … like most people do in real life .. usually no one praises a government when it does well except those who make propaganda to it … people only speak out loudly against a governments mistakes and shortcomings and focus on it blowing it out of proportions (usually ignoring any good sides for it if the issue they are complaining about affects their lives directly).

            Long story short you can easily deduce how the system is working from many observations out throughout all the episodes.

            1-The one who planned 99% of the crimes since the start of the show is Shogo Makishima .. it’s almost as if the whole department have no other crimes to deal with (except maybe the one from ep1), remove Shogo and you will have the character sitting in their office playing cards all day (which is pretty much what the department manager says when she explains why they need to remove/erase Shogo from existence in secret).

            2-The people’s reaction to the street beating is pretty clear indication that the people rarely have to deal with crimes to the point where they can’t recognize one happening in front of them.

            3-Shogo himself wants to destroy the system not becasue it isn’t working but becasue it is working and that the complete lack of violence, tension, danger and crimes has left the people sedated and sterilized to the point where they are slowly losing their awareness and instincts which Shogo considers more important than living a life like a vegetable (which is an arguable matter).

            Leaving all this for the viewer to discern is far better than the show dedicating an entire episode to praise the benefits of Sybil .. which IMO would be quite pretentious and forced.

          • Da5id says:

            Ever heard of SHOW, don’t TELL?

  3. Will says:

    This show is just getting stupid, but that’s just my opinion.

    • Puran says:

      The problem is that the setting is… well… shallow. It has been that way from the start. I don’t see how it has gotten worse in the recent episodes though. Care to elaborate?

      • HunterWulf says:

        Shallow !!!.. WTF !!? .. are you kidding, what are you even comparing it to .. what does that even make shows like Queen’s Blade and Fairy Tail .. PP Shallow, what !!?

        This episode alone elaborates on a lot of things .. heck .. here is some food for thought .. Shogo might seem like he has a point when he says that humans have degenerated mentally and physically in order to live in a safer society .. but if you look at the bigger picture you will see that in fact this is what has been happening to humans ever since the dawn of history .. cavemen probably had sharper instincts, far better awareness and were far more nimble and stronger than the average human today .. but life was extremely harsh and dangerous .. the price humanity paid for the luxurious life most of us live to today is the same price the people in the future will pay to get their safe lives .. but how far will this go !!!? .. and will we even be recognizable as humans if we go further down that road (sacrificing our instincts and awareness for safety).

        Shallow .. yeah .. i see that.

        • Da5id says:

          Damn, you really take criticisms of shows personally.

          You may not know it, but trying to say too much is pretty the same as saying very little. The difference is that at least shows that don’t say that much know what they are. Psycho Pass is practically as bad as Guilty Crown in how it tries to make social commentaries that don’t even need to be made.

          • HunterWulf says:

            Damn, you seem to take other people’s opinions personally (i mean you came all the way from RC just to tell me that i really take criticisms of shows personally .. lols).

            No, saying too little is just being lazy, impressionable and pretty much a sign you have nothing meaningful to say or discuss.

            I don’t see how the social commentary in PP doesn’t need to be made or how does it even compare to GC (it’s ridiculous comparing PP to a crappy good-for-nothing show like GC) !!!

          • Da5id says:

            @HW: Calm down, man. The comparison is apt. It’s just a show.

        • Puran says:

          Where did Queen’s Blade come from?

          It’s like I’m saying “I don’t like this painting” and you’re saying “yeah but this child’s scribbles are much worse!”.

          But if we’re going to play the “compare to” game, then… Ghost in the Shell and Texhnolyze. Texhnolyze even has similar themes to Psycho Pass to an extent.

        • Will says:

          This episode made the setting feel more half-assed and cheaper than it already was.

          • HunterWulf says:

            Half-assed and cheap .. yeah yeah .. whatever .. why are even still watching the show then !!? .. go watch your non-half-assed non-cheap shows.

            Seriously .. just spouting baseless claims that make no sense doesn’t make you sound smarter nor above the people who enjoy a show like this .. don’t like it .. don’t watch it and spare us the pointless negativity.

    • HunterWulf says:

      The only thing stupid here is incomplete comments which make no sense and never elaborate on the accusations they contain in any way.

    • honeykiss says:

      I kinda agree, mostly because this episode is regurgitating information that was already fed to us at least three or four episodes ago. Or it felt like the characters were needlessly repeating themselves. Pay attention to the first conversation with the main cast. To me, this was just a filler episode with some new Makishima sequences and more shock footage. Because that’s what Psycho Pass tends to run with when it wants to create tension.

      Also, the public beating is probably Uro or whoever is writing this show pulling from the headlines when this happened to Shingo Minamino last year. Like those two host guys chatting on the train in Puella Magi Madoka. Sure likes twisting the knife, doesn’t he? Except, even if this is an anime with a supposedly desensitized sci-fi society, I find it tasteless how dull and dead the bystanders are to the event in front of them. This contrasts with the lady who was freaking out earlier in the episode so badly that it’s pretty dumb to me.

      Still, I do have hopes that this is just a low spot for the show. I really hope the main characters start with their full investigation and search for Makishima soon -like they were hinting last episode- and not get caught up with his blatant pleas for anarchy to progress the plot.

      • Kaiserin Emma says:

        @Honeykiss: I agree with the headline pulling comment.
        However regarding the contrast you mention I don’t see it as a bad thing, though many people in this society are probably desensitized that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is.

        • honeykiss says:

          The reason why I said it’s tasteless is because of the ridiculously long statement at the end of each episode saying how these fictional events are “coincidental” to real life events, when that particular event borrowed pretty heavily from a real life crime. I understand the purpose of including criminal acts and the lifeless reaction shots of the crowd within the show’s premise. But, hamming up the negatives to try to make a point about Psycho Pass’s society is pretty lazy writing and was something that was already established episodes ago even.

          It was a pretty pointless scene to me is what I’m trying in vain to say. It felt like it was crammed in to build on the Kougami-Makishima rivalry this show’s trying to build, and that’s sad.

  4. kero says:

    I think the person who was taking the video was one of the guys who already knew something like that was going to happen.

    • HunterWulf says:

      Agreed, i think the Chinese Tech-guy who helps Makshima Shogo was there in the crowd and he is probably the one who sent Makshima the video, but don’t forget that he wasn’t the only one filming the crime.

  5. HunterWulf says:

    Definitely one of the finest episodes so far, not only does it explain the scene from the prologue (the flash-forward scene in the tower building) in which Kogami fights a guy with a helmet which was immune to Dominators and eventually cracks his helmet and kills him (then Shogo shows up .. and now we know that guys helmet was probably copying Shogo’s PP at the time) but it also elaborates that while Sybil has flaws (like any other system) it was in fact doing a great job (the job it was made for) which is preventing crimes before they happen and lowering crime rates significantly .. it seems to was too good at that to the point the society became sanitized to criminal acts and didn’t recognize a crime happening in front of them.

    And in a way that’s the price humans had to pay to get extremely low crime rates via Sybil .. they became sort-of-numb and sanitized, their instincts dulled and their awareness lowered .. many people would actually be okay with paying that price to live peacefully (majority of population) .. other people don’t like that and want to change things (like Shogo Makshima, who believes life isn’t worth living that in that sanitized way) .. but if you look at the bigger picture you will see that in fact this is what has been happening to humans ever since the dawn of history .. cavemen probably had sharper instincts, far better awareness and were far more nimble and stronger than the average human today .. but life was extremely harsh and dangerous .. the price humanity paid for the luxurious life most of us live to today is the same price the people in the future will pay to get their safe lives .. but how far will this go !!!? .. and will we even be recognizable as humans if we go further down that road (sacrificing our instincts and awareness for safety) .. just some food for thought.

    There were hints at that before but this episode elaborated on it beautifully and in detail and started the final act of the show that will lead us to the first scene in ep1.

    Before i end my comment i have to say the scene with the woman getting beaten to death in public was already quite disturbing by itself (specially knowing it did happen few times in real life .. check the ‘Bystander-Effect’ on Google” .. what made the scene far more creepy (and borderline black comedy at the same time) is the robot with the cute face addressing the woman being beaten to death and telling her she needs help and that she is distressed .. simply brilliant.

    • Puran says:

      No, the episode doesn’t at any point elaborate that the system works at any rate.

      It just told us that people react more to bad psycho pass readings than actual violence. And as you said yourself, what happened in this episode does happen today (the bystander effect) only in Psycho Pass’ universe it’s even worse. Yet another example where the series shows us that Psycho Pass’ society is even worse than ours. Sybil is working juust fine!

      Also, in previous posts you accused me of making assumptions on things the series hasn’t elaborated on. And then you’re doing just the same. You make a ton of assumptions that the system is working and had positive effects on society when the series has shown us no such thing at all.

      So here is a challenge. Show me a scene in the series where it is clearly SHOWN that Psycho Pass’ society has improved compared to ours (and hence proof that Sybil had a positive effect on society). Because all I see is a society where freedom of expression is limited (bands having to get authorised), where crime happens all the time and everyone’s fate is decided for them (everyone with a high-ish crime coefficient) and yet everyone feels just as lost as today.

      • Highfinder Highfinder says:

        I feel you are overreacting. For one it is feasible for the Psycho Pass system to have been slowly implemented over time. I highly doubt it was an instant thing. Even then it’s not as if the Psycho pass system is as constricting as the 1984 system. The 1984 system was pure domination and ultimately perfect at that. There was not way to counter it and many were not even in the position to try. The Psycho Pass system is much more free compared to that. There is still a place for self expression in the internet and even provides the illusion of choice. For one it doesn’t force people to take the jobs it recommends them, otherwise Akane wouldn’t be an officer.

        Also you seem to be basing your impressions on the episodes shown which were there for the purpose of showing the flaws of the system and where also Makishima’s schemes. AKA the man who means to destory it. Taking a look at Psycho pass society it is pretty clear that it is safer. Nobodies mugging anyone, no sign of mafia or criminal organizations, no sign of drug use, no homeless and they even stated in this episode that people don’t even bother locking their doors anymore. If that isn’t a sign of a safe environment then I don’t know what is.
        Even though there is still murder the chances of the murderer getting away with it is slim to none. Like you said, execution first ask questions later. No bullshit with lawyers getting out some asshole for self defense.

        Not saying the setting or writing is perfect but I find it within feasible levels. Unlike “from the new world” who’s setting I find unbelievable.

        • Da5id says:

          Just because we don’t see drugs, mafia, or homeless doesn’t mean they don’t exist somewhere in the city. For all we know, there could be plenty of people as smart as Makishima that are abusing the system to hide themselves or cause trouble that just isn’t focused on.

          Here’s an idea: Instead of having the protagonist be someone who was raised by this system to the point they can’t accept anything else (and thus being almost completely unrelatable because we have no idea what it’s like to be raised in that) have them be from a part of the country (or a different country) that still implements the judicial system like in OUR world. Maybe they’re there to observe the system for a foreign government to see if that country should use it as well, or something like that. This way, we could learn about the basics, history, perks, AND downsides of the Sibyl System as the main character does. Have the first 8 or 9 episodes be about developing the other cops (which PP barely does) and how the main character learns to adjust, accept, or reject this new system, examine pros and cons, take a look at how the system effects ALL citizens, with hints of Makishima’s schemes here and there.

          It’s fine to be able to come to these conclusions that it MIGHT be working somewhere that we aren’t seeing, but the story itself makes no attempt to actually explain itself when that’s what it should’ve been doing from the start.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Maybe because it doesn’t need too. You keep saying maybe there is still crime but aren’t taking in all the factors. There are scanners all over the city. Before you even think of committing a crime these things will pick it up. Makishima is shown to be an abnormality which the system is not adjusted to fight. He is also the only person who can actively fight the system within the system.
            Of course you may be thinking of those revolutionaries with the Molotov cocktails but honestly their attempt is laughable. They would be taken down before they could do any real unrecoverable damage because they simply can’t hide there hues from the system when going to attack it.

            With all the blatantly obvious exposition Gen’s doing I don’t think it needs some throwaway lines to justify saying why the system is perfect.

          • Da5id says:

            There’s no way he is the only person who can do this trick. Sure he might be the only one actively making trouble for the police, but he can’t be the only one who’s so committed to his cause that his Pass doesn’t rise. He’s just a sociopath and they may not be common, but they aren’t rare either.

            And I mean people from places that DON’T USE PSYCHO PASSES. The revolutionaries are inside and know they’re rebelling and that their actions are going against something, thus raising their stress levels. How does a dominator work against someone without a Psycho-Pass? I’m guessing not very well.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Didn’t the chief mention that they dealt with one before? They just are not very public about it. I do believe they mentioned how rare it was as well.

            Someone without a psycho pass? Now you are just being silly. They are born with them! The scanners scan. There is no mention of implanting a psycho pass.
            Just…just…are you even paying attention to the show you are complaining about?

          • Da5id says:

            Huh, really? I assumed it was an implant what with all of the cyberpunk and the HUD’s that people on the police force all get and cyber-implants are usually the way stories like this go. My bad.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Hate to admit but after double checking you are right. It is an implant. Though in that case it’s probably placed at birth and is impossible to remove so the argument still stands.

        • Da5id says:

          Lol, it’s okay.

          Anyway, but then my argument about foreign attacks also stands, since the Dominator has no way of registering a person who doesn’t have an implant.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            The wiki for Psycho pass says they have a device implanted to measure their psycho pass however the official site states that there mental state is just measured without any implantation.
            So I was right…

      • HunterWulf says:

        You call that a challenge !!!, really .. i don’t need to be spoon fed the fact the Sybil is doing its work just fine, it’s freaking obvious.

        1-The one who planned 99% of the crimes since the start of the show is Shogo Makishima .. it’s almost as if the whole department have no other crimes to deal with (except maybe the one from ep1), remove Shogo and you will have the characters and the whole police force sitting in their office playing cards all day (which is pretty much what the department manager says when she explains why they need to remove/erase Shogo from existence in secret to keep the people’s trust in Sybil .. why the heck would people trust in Sybil if it didn’t improve their lives significantly in the first place !!!).

        2-The people’s reaction to the street beating is pretty clear indication that the people rarely have to deal with crimes to the point where they can’t recognize one happening in front of them.

        3-Shogo himself wants to destroy the system not becasue it isn’t working but becasue it is working .. and being too effective for its own good … and becasue of that fact Shogo considers the complete lack of violence, tension and danger to have left the people sedated and sterilized to the point where they are slowly losing their awareness and instincts which Shogo considers more important than living a life like a peaceful vegetable .. no tension, no danger, no need to use your instincts (which is an arguable matter).

        • Da5id says:

          Why would they trust it? Because they’ve never been offered anything different, so know they have to live with it. If you were raised in Nazi Germany and you never knew there were any other type of government for your entire life, would you try to rebel or suck it up? PS: Rebelling results in death by gassing (or in Psycho Pass’s case, your body exploding from being shot with an enforcer gun).

    • Puran says:

      Let me try and explain myself better through dialogue…

      -Hey, I have an idea!
      -What?
      -Let’s make a system that controls every aspect of people’s lives!
      -Uhhh, haven’t you read 1984? That’s a bad idea… At best it might reduce crime.
      -No, actually there will still be crime all over.
      -So what’s the upside?
      -It will limit freedom of expression and censor music!
      -Uh..?
      -And the best part is, it will automatically execute dangerous criminals!
      -I thought we were past the death penalty as a society…
      -It will also destroy people’s lives because their crime coefficient got over some arbitrary value!
      -Dude, get away from me!

      • HunterWulf says:

        A ton of fallacies.
        1-It doesn’t control every aspect of people’s lives like Big Brother, people can still do whatever they want in their own houses and outside as long as it doesn’t raise their own PP.

        2-Crime isn’t all over, pretty much the only one propagating and planning crimes around is Shogo, people’s reactions to the public beating shows they never saw someone being beaten, mugged or killed before, no one carries weapons around, there isn’t a single proof that crime is ALL OVER THE PLACE .. it’s just one guy behind the series of crimes from the start of the series.

        3-The didn’t censor music, non-approve music was being played in the same place as Sybil approved music .. where did they say they censored it !!!?

        4-And weeding out criminals have definitely led to a much more peaceful society, no thieves, burglars or organized crime whatsoever … so peaceful and stress free that people end up slowly turning into sort-of living vegetables … which means Sybil is doing it’s intended job just fine.

        And that you weren’t paying attention during the show XD

        • Da5id says:

          1-That would be easy to accept if they weren’t making it increasingly clear that questioning the system is what raises your Psycho Pass. A society that doesn’t allow questioning of government is pretty much the same as Big Brother.

          2-There also isn’t proof that there isn’t crime all over the city that’s just had to be more quiet. Makishima can’t possibly be the only person to find a way around this system, because otherwise the writers are just being lazy. Plus, giving the only authorized firearms to the cops (and very few at that) is fine for one city, but if there’s a foreign invasion from country that doesn’t implement this system, they are SCREWED. Especially if the guns will only fire on people who HAVE to be in the system AND have a specific level of psychosis.

          3-The fact that they have to approve music is censorship in itself.

          4-You’re saying people slowly going comatose is a GOOD thing?!

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            “4-You’re saying people slowly going comatose is a GOOD thing?!”

            He didn’t say that it was a good thing. He said that Sybel is doing it’s “intended” job fine. The problem is that it’s doing it too well. Just saying.

          • Da5id says:

            So, if that’s Sybil’s intended job, why are we siding with the people enforcing it?

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Who said you had to side with the system? The characters are pointing out whats wrong with the system every episode. They clearly don’t like the system but most of them don’t have a choice in the matter.
            The only ones who have a choice is the officer who’s in love with it and miss Akane who clearly has doubts about it.

          • Da5id says:

            Yeah, that’s another thing. Isn’t being a “Latent Criminal” on the Enforcers sort of an Informed Flaw? So far none of the Enforcers besides Kogami have had any inconveniences or signs that they could do anything as bad as the people they fight, so building that up is kind of wasted, isn’t it?

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Don’t change the subject just because you can’t argue back.

          • Da5id says:

            Okay, then. So we’re following people who don’t like the system but are enforcing it against a guy who also doesn’t like the system. So neither of them like the system. At least in other cop shows there’s more than one main character who actually likes and believes in the law they enforce. Why not here?

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Because that’s the point.

          • Da5id says:

            So the point is that no one likes the system? Why should the audience like the system if all but none of the characters do?

          • Avalon says:

            When has this show ever tried to make the audience like the system? The main characters don’t like the system and they have more reasons after every episode.

            Just because they can all agree that the system is flawed doesn’t mean it suddenly becomes okay for people like Makishima to kill just to prove it to the world.

          • Da5id says:

            But the system allows him to kill (and lead others to kill, assuming they weren’t doing it already) because it focuses on stress levels, but Makishima’s stress REDUCES by killing people, as it does with all the people he’s worked with and even the ones that didn’t. So the system’s not just flawed, it’s fatally flawed. Especially if you’ve conditioned them against stress, because when they finally get stressed because of something in their lives, they won’t have any idea how to work with it or vent it all without harming someone. Plus, even the thought of harming someone would raise their pass, which alerts enforcers, and the instant they hear police sirens, they’ll know their life is over and flip out, like the guy in the first episode. People caught in the crossfire will be too relaxed to know they are about to be killed (as seen with the school kids in episodes 6-8), meaning that most citizens are pretty much ticking time bombs that will inevitably take people with them before they die.

            In fact, you could argue that Sibyl is actually making these murders MORE likely because of all the constraints and censorship and conditioning people to avoid stress instead overcoming it, so really they’re fueling the murders. The cons heavily outweigh the pros when you consider this.

  6. Will says:

    Yo Hunter, I’m sorry that I hurt your feels.

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AidanAK47
But there are times when it goes way too far and you can barely make out what is even supposed to be happening. Or characters go so off model that they are unrecognizable. It can be immersion breaking. Much like uncanny CGI.
AidanAK47
@Niel, I do agree that it's annoying to see people complain about animation when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Like those inbetween frame screenshot people. But I will say I appreciate on model characters more so than chaotic movement. When the off model stuff suits the tone of the scene like that blade runner part, then it's fine.
niel
I also don't want to see someone imply visual=animation for the hundredth time. Are people really that ignorant of the technical/artistic aspect of the media they consumed?
niel
It just depends on what works best in given scene and the aesthetic they want to go for. People can complain all they want about off-model stuff, but if they really only want that the they won't be getting nearly as much of those impactful scenes as there are now. So many of the ways people complain about it is really irking to me.
niel
normal/low action scenes is different from being on-model during the action sequences and just the ones that need some extra impact in general. https://youtu.be/rrZk9sSgRyQ?t=6m45s
niel
But that depends on the situation though. And I'd argue that being consistent and on-model during
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter/Niello/Mario: Ideally I want it both ways, fluid animation AND consistent model visuals, all the while never sacrificing choreography.
SuperMario
But really, who am I to say. I'm the dude who prefer beautiful shot composition myself
SuperMario
The same can be said with Shinkai's movies since he always prefers static, beautiful shot that people tend to overlook that his animation is quite poorly handled
Vonter
You're right, but art direction does alleviate limited animation, I mean the old Berserk anime, kinda has a lot of slideshow moments. MahoYome has nice backgrounds, and despite the samey faces, at the very least doesn't come from the same mold as other series. Still cutting corners with chibi segments is was a mistake.
SuperWooper
Is it any wonder that people prefer things to be static/on-model? They want to see characters who look consistent and familiar so they can relate to them.
Nie
MahoYome being the biggest offender of people getting triggered to any kind of statement about the show's animation not being good. And it's absurd because the show's animation really isn't great at all. It's good with distracting people with pretty pictures, but animation-wise it's still mediocre.
Nie
@SuperMario: Not much. Just stuff like "Art is part of the animation weather it's beautiful backgrounds or just amazing looking characters. It's not all about how they move. If it was, CG would be considered great animation" multiple times. I've just been finding myself being replied with these kinds of comment non-stop since the start of the season.
SuperMario
@Niello: What happened exactly, if you don't me asking?
Nielllo
If I hear someone says AMB has good animation one more tie I might actually lose it. It's amazing how people who apparently know nothing about it try to defend this and other people who don't know anything are actually supporting the guy.
Niello
So with Fate Apocrypha episode 22 out, I'm just now learning that people think webgen style is horrible and they prefer static scenes with pretty visual over actual quality animation. WTF. I can't comprehend this. Are casual people who watch animation in general really that oblivious to the art they have been watching?
Lenlo
Berserks Dynasty Warriors style game looked better. Also, Mahoutsukai should be up tonight/tomorrow. Turns out, Christmas is a busy time of year at this job.
Amagi
*worse
Amagi
Especially when you consider how good CGI can be by now, look at Houseki or Kado. But Berserk was the worst thing I saw in years, many scenes felt worst than sequences of PSX games
Amagi
@SuperMario: Same. I love Kon and also consider Paprika's OST as the best. @Lenlo: Me too. I honestly even enjoyed the movies but the new series was atrocious
Lenlo
HIRASAWAAAA! HAAAAAI YOOOOO.
I miss the 90s Berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I was also quite fond of his soundtracks for Berserk. AIIIIIYE FORCES : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkYYYew8CUI
SuperMario
@Amagi: I'm a big fan of Kon so I've watched everything from his. Even bought a book about his works. About the soundtrack, I listened to them as well but not regularly, compare to pprika OST which I downloaded and listen to a lot
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although not completely a manga, Usagi yojimbo also has an anthro character.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Millennium actress is partially inspired by the actress Setsuko Hara.
Amagi
@Kaiser-Eoghan: The anthro-animal manga is even a topseller as far as I know. Haven't looked into it yet, though. Maybe I will do so.
Amagi
Speaking of it, I am still hoping Dream Machine will happen some day. Kon died believing it would happen
Amagi
@SuperMario: Have you tried the other Kon movies like Millennium Actress once? Thought they were really good and Hirasawa is responsible for the OST there too. Or Paranoia Agent which was (IMO) very good as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nttSKBJ38k (OP)
Niello
Eoghan: Enjoy... ;)
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I haven't read this, its very strange to see a manga about full anthro animal characters: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Beastars
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: So based on that I will try devil lady. Thanks.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: That'd be me who made that post. I thought dororon enma-kun was wonderfully ridiculous and Devilman gorishly entertaining, Shin Mazinger Z was probably some of the most fun I had with an anime, but violence jack took it way too far though so I guess I'm aquainted with nagai's work
Vonter
I don't remember who was looking for something noir in anime. I was looking among several series from Go Nagai. And watched some Devil Lady. I don't remember if noir is exclusively detective stories, but this anime, has those high contrast shadows, eerie music and is shot like some japanese horror movies I've seen. I don't know if it changes along the road but so far it's very suspenseful.
SuperMario
I only know him through his works in Berserk and Paprika but his music never fails to amaze me
Anonymous1626471
@Amagi: Ghost Bridge is my favourite. I just find it very calming. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeh5aJsxlbw
Amagi
Susumu Hirasawa is one of my favorite musicians/composers. I don't even know what kind of subgenre this is. There aren't any other music groups I know who do similar stuff
Nielllo
@Mario, Already saw that video before.
SuperMario
Check this out... I don't even know what the freaking instrument he's playing, but it's spellbound https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjalQjAomH0
Niello
Just when I thought Houseki no Kuni took the prize for best animation I was treated with Apocrypha. This week is amazing.
Niello
Big name animators all over. They really threw everything they've got here.
Niello
Woooooah! OMG Apocrypha ep 22 animation is sick! So that's why the animation in the first half of the show is so lackluster and basically just darn awful.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its not entirely odd to bring up Heydrich in relation to the occult either, apparently he was said to be part of some whackjob order.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hmmm, that girl from Dies irae, Anna Schwegln is aptly named, also shares her name with the last executed person for witchcraft, who was Bavarian German, which i'm told by an Austrian friend were particular right-est leaning politically.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course unfortunately its often the opposite that happens, nothing is worse than an ending that ruins everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, how I love being surprised by something. That feeling where you''re watching something shakily held together, simply okay or good, then suddenly in the second half or last stretch your score of it goes massively up.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can kind of understand the wanting to go home and watch something easy mentality instead of challenging but even though I'm guilty of escapism, I'm tired somewhat of "sillier" stuff, its often enjoyable but its get overly reptitive and I wish I could find more philosophical/political/imaginative things.
Amagi
Yeah the show is great because of its theme, the setting and chemistry girls have as well as their (lack of) knowledge about basic human things. Each episode thematizes this in a different way but there isn't much you can talk or say about it when you already explained the topic in detail.
SuperMario
On the other hand, I don't have much to talk about Girls' Last Tour this week. It's still good, but with this episode I feel that I'm running out of concrete thig to say about the show
SuperMario
Haha both Houseki and 3-gatsu have a good showing this week. I have a lot of things to talk about Houseki in particular
Amagi
This week's Houseki is jurassic park
Amagi
*-ati - I think Netflix and so are at least giving a few new impulses which isn't too bad. I don't think the typical anime series will disappear because of that.
Amagi
At least in comparisation
Amagi
I think it's just sad how often I see wonderful series selling 500 BD/DVD or maybe even less. Most series don't sell more than 1500 or so and the rest is usually at ~3000-5000 which is still pretty low.
Amagi
Yeah, it's one of my pro-Netflix arguments as well. Another problem is that anime (not counting manga) only make money through dvd/bd sales since they air at night, whereas Netflix or daytime tv series don't depend on the latter so much and since anime BDs are so expensive the only ones who buy them are the more extreme fans.
AidanAK47
Might be in part due to the workaholic nature of their society that makes escapist fantasy and empty entertainment more appealing than usual. Ultimately these are the people anime is made for so opening up the markets gives more deserving shows a fighting chance.
Though that isn't to say that western taste is perfect either.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, That's part of the reason I think some westernation might be a good thing as from what I seen the Japanese have truly terrible taste in anime. Sales charts from Japan just make me shake my head.
Amagi
God, the preorder anime lists are atricious. The only one that seems to sell acceptable (around 6k) is Mahoyome. Series like Inuyashiki have 80 pre-orders so far, Shuumatsu Shoujo 977. Idol shows sell good of course, including that male/bishounen Idolmaster
AidanAK47
@Anon, I read it but kinda fell out due to it's releases being slow.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Actually if you check the manga recommendations section, you'll see there is a post about it here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Yes, it was interesting to follow a story that dealt with a characters homosexuallity that was outside of the yaoi/yuri mould.
Anonymous1620968
Out of curiosity, has anyone on here read Shimanami Tasogare?
Niello
Where are we up to with Inuyashiki?
Lenlo
Well alright then. Episode 9 out of 11 and that happens. Was not expecting that
Lenlo
Ooo something happen this week? Im about to watch it
Kaiser-Eoghan
It feels just as rushed and awkward in the manga.
Amagi
I noticed this too
AidanAK47
Inuyashiki has balls of steel to pull that in this particular episode number.
Nielllo
Finally got around to reading Helck, and it looks like it's going to go into that pile of good-shounen-that-won't-ever-get-animated right alongside Psyren.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Imagine trying to buy the dvds of the show in public.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Gentle remind that the prism ilya movie is out and subbed.
AidanAK47
Still surprised the second and third seasons got dubbed.
AidanAK47
@Angel, I replied to one of your comments before but the rundown is no official word yet but maybe next year.
Angel
Or no? Someone please tell me!!
Angel
Going to happen?
Angel
Is fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub
Amagi
I dislike it when manga bait me into reading due to the first chapter and end up being some very generic stuff afterwards. Nobody stays for B if he started something for A, authours should expect that.
Lenlo
Really, Juuni should stick with the 3D. That fight in ep 9 looked pretty good. 3D is clearly what they are good at
AidanAK47
@Niello, It's not Chatango. It's a plugin for wordpress called Wisechat.
SuperMario
@Niello: yeah, Juuni caught me off guard this week. The production of Juuni is unfortunately shaky, but well, strong writing can save the day
Niello
Btw is this chat still Chatango?
Niello
This week episode of Juini is surprisingly good compared to how the show usually is with its backstory. Although the part where Ox tries to explain to Tiger could definitely use some visual buff.
SuperWooper
in the future*
SuperWooper
Pretty cool that Juuni Taisen had that kind of emotional heft this week, though. Might be one of the 2017 shows I sample the in the future.
SuperWooper
I think the occasional comments with an episode title and nothing more come from people who mistake the shoutbox for a search bar.
SuperMario
@Anon1614688: juuni taisen... made me tearing up this week. Honestly didn't expect that. Damn you, Tiger
Anonymous1614688
juuni taisen
Amagi
Had some complaints regarding Children of Whales but the latest two episodes were pretty good.
Amagi
@Anon: You explained it better than me.
Anonymous1614307
Kaiser: I actually have the exact same opinion of Natsume and Mushishi. Both are excellent, but Natsume just does a great job with a small core cast and a very simple premise
Anonymous1614456
who likes naruto
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mushishi does have good stories, but it was always a manga I'd dip in and out of, on and off for years, never marathoning it, wheras Natsume was easier to read several chapters of in one go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think its because Natsume has more pathos.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*more than
Natsume weirdly ended up becoming this comfort manga for me with a higher consistency rate .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will state that I hold the terrible opinion that I like Natsume Yujinchou than Mushishi but at the same time completely recognize that Mushishi is probably the more ambitious, better show.
Niello
So it becomes a cycle of "this is an interesting set up" (except that the new Kino isn't even good at that) and then they fucked up or Kino/Shizu fucked them up even more, then move on. Without the emphasis on philosophical nature of the set up they present like in the original Kino, there really isn't that much point to it.
Niello
With the new Kino it's more about messing people up, occassionally observing and hardly ever improving. The anwsers or solutions to the problem they present is never really talked about in a rational way.
SuperMario
@Anon1614318: maybe you should give the old Kino a try. What I don't like most about the new version of Kino is that both Kino and the new guy are sketched as hero. The old Kino manages the tone right as well. There were some really dark tales and most of them thought-provoking. Can't say the same for say...Country of Cooking
Anonymous1614318
I don't know, it might be interesting to actually dig deep into the differences between episodic series with this kind of style to see what works and what doesn't.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's a matter of the chapter they chose to adapt were not really the better ones but the ones where the protagonist is more of an active role. Not totally against that, but it feels like the protagonist is just OP all the time. At least with Mushishi Ginko isn't able to save everyone all the time.
Anonymous1614318
I guess it's supposed to be more allegorical, but most of the time the allegory is not really meaningful enough. I thought it would be more along the lines of Mushishi, which is kind of similar in setup, but better in most other ways.
Anonymous1614318
What keeps me sticking around are some of the nice background arts and generally pleasant use of color, but admittedly most of the episodes aren't really engaging in a meaningful way. Most of the time its just Kino/Shizu show up, find out town's gimmick, then save the day. I prefer the episodes where the townspeople are more than just flat background characters.
Anonymous1614318
It's interesting to see how this new Kino season is being received from folks who've already watched the original. This is my first real exposure to Kino, and I kind of like it, but even without watching the original, I share many of the same complaints Aidan and most of the others have.
Amagi
I am also kinda sad he's just some 2* servant in fgo, but his power is special and he's physically weak, so it's understandable.
Amagi
And again, Shakespeare is just great but the character is, sadly, kinda wasted here considering how much screentime he has.
Amagi
@Aidan: Yes. Plus, maybe more characterization or background for some servants. The anime would have that time without Sieg and his romance sub plot.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, Those being remove Sieg and more Shakespeare?
Amagi
And man Apocrypha is pretty good but it would be twice as good if it had those two changes Aidan always mentions in the reviews..
Amagi
@Kaiser: I think the male in Kino was a mistake. Having two PoV sounds good, but he's basically just a male Kino, he even looks like her. Someone vastly different would have been way more interesting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd guarantee that sangatsu no lion would be high up, but FINALLY this weekend I'll be catching up.
Niello
@Kaiser, Ugh my phone gitched. What I meant to say was that background was unexpected. Now I see why you're enjoying CotW though.
Niello
@Kaiser, That's unexpected.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoyed how outright surreal Arakawa was.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: It bothers me that they're stuffing multiple tales into single episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, excel saga, I wonder what I would think of it now, its been years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I actually respect Aidan's coverage of it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: Yes that edgy villain kid in COTWs was annoying though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I don't care much for the male character that leads some of the episodes in this new adaptation.
@Niello: Its a non-mainstream shoujo that isn't set in a school, moves at a quick enough pace and has some nice background art/chara design, I grew up on shoujo fantasy manga also so theres that.
Amagi
I mean there are parts I like. I enjoyed the first episode, and the part about the country of liars. But many other things annoy me and the last episode was the worst. I also feel like the edgy bomb loli and slapstick Kino don't fit to the rest of the show somehow. Maybe I forgot everything, but the "old" Kino felt like a better character to me somehow, this one is more faithful to the LNs though
Amagi
@Kaiser: I honestly gave up on Kino and I think it's only partly the fault of the new series. I am just so tired of how stupid most of the episodic-characters are unless their are friends of Kino, how everyone gets bent being irredeemable evil for plot's sake and how everything Kino and her friends do gets justified. Maybe I am just too old or boring for this fairy tail like moral bending.
SuperMario
Still have Night is Short review to write... i will get there. I will get there
Anonymous1612237
It's like having potty mouth characters. If you have one, it can be funny and a good comedic relief. If everyone does it, it can come out as mean spirited or trashy.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I haven't watched A Bad Idea Gone Wrog, as for now my top priority is to catch up with 2017 anime for the Yearly summary. But I will get on to it when I have some free time
Anonymous1612237
Amagi - Chibi stuff I've seen it mainly work in anime comedies with low budgets like Those Who Hunt Elves, Ranma, Excel Saga, Arakawa Under the Bridge, Nanbaka, etc. I think if you really have to use it in a more serious anime, I think it might work if it was part of one character's gag.
SuperMario
Children of the Whales, along with Juuni Taisen, keep falling out on me. Kino is pretty a hit-or-miss at the moment. I don't mind the last episode's multiple tales though
Niello
Problem about AMB chibi jokes are that they arwn't funny in the first place nor do they have a punch line.
Niello
@Eoghan, Really surprise you put Children of the Whales so high, I'm falling behind on some shows but it is still near the bottom of my list (the absolute bottom remains Kino).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The latest Kino episode was a real slap in the face/insult, really really thought that one segement would carry on for the whole episode and be a redemptive one/getting the series back on form but then it followed it up with crap comic relief segement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: For now yes.
Lenlo
Droppin Mahou Kaiser?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I no longer care what Dia's gender is, no longer I will lie to myself and deem them female.
Kaiser-Eoghan
5. would be juuni taisen
Kaiser-Eoghan
My rankings for the season based on what I am following: 1. Houseki no kuni 2. Children of the whales 3. inuyashiki 4. girls last tour dropping mahou and Kino.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't remember Joseph being all that present from what little I read of the manga.
Amagi
Fear so too. I mean it has a bunch of good ideas and good quality and such, but it feels like it won't be much more than the magical being of the week (or two weeks) and some Elias highjinks inbetween
Kaiser-Eoghan
I still say, I've got the feeling mahou will be wasted potential that won't really go anywhere much.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Did you watch that indie film you recommended yet? Bad idea gone wrong it was called. I just finished it there, budgetary limitations and outside of Matt Jones the acting isn't great, theres a few limp/dead bits too, nonetheless it has its amusing moments here and there to make for an okay comedy that isn't all that essential but amusing enough in moments if your bored.
Amagi
Yeah I think Mahou has some pacing issues. But I also think it would work way better if it was less episodic or semi-episodic.
SuperMario
I normally don't mind the chibi stuff that much but I agree in Mahoutsukai they break the tone and pacing. Serious at one time, fluffy at another...
Amagi
@Vonter: I honestly never like chibi stuff I think. Didn't care back then but nowadays I consider it annoying. One reason is that jokes only work when they aren't pointed out but just happen, sometimes even so casually that you almost miss them. Turning everyone into a chibi for a joke makes it as fun as repeating, explaining or shouting it again (which many series also do)
KTravlos
I have to give it to Altair. It got me reading the manga. The episode this week did skip over a whole manga story, but to be frank it is not too much of a loss. Pacing issues still exist. One thing I noticed was a degrading in animation. They are probably hoarding for the next two episodes which are the major battle.
Anonymous1611511
Just dropping my 2c here: Isn't it too late for the studio to correct such inherent design issue once eps start rolling out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Angel: The dub wasn't all that impressive in the first place however.
Angel
When Will fate/kaleid liner prisma☆illya 3rei dub come out?
Vonter
The chibi stuff sadly, is like watching someone make the same mistake over and over again, without acknowledging that thing isn't coming across well. At this point it seems like an intentional choice rather than just cutting corners. Kinda like when an anime has a decent dub but has that one character with a really annoying voice.
Lenlo
Its continued this willful ignorance, this virtual refusal, to actually address the issue. Thing about the chibi is, the first scene with Silver worked. Then it just got overused.
KTravlos
Mahoutsukai continues denying itself. We finally had some tough questions asked, but the show just ignored them in the 2nd half (with generous doses of chibi). That said Elias true form is terrifying.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: If you enjoy The Scent of the Green Papaya and Cyclo, you can also check out his unofficial third film about Vietnam: The Vertical Ray of the Sun, which is about the modern day of Hanoi. It's my favorite film of his, although I know that artistically it can't compare to his earlier films
SuperMario
And I can say the mafia aspect of Cyclo is more like Hong Kong than Vietnam. But, whatever. I like this one well enough
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I particularly love the score in Cyclo. No wonder later on Tran Anh Hung asked Joony Greenwood from Raidoohead to score his films. His score has the same uncomfortable feeling with this one
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would have watched an entire story based around that old man in the new Kinos journey episode.
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Mahoutsukai no Yome – 10 [We Live and Learn]

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Dies Irae – 08[Promise]

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