Posted by psgels on 28 January 2013 with categories: Psycho Pass

And the system just continues to break down. Previously we were introduced to the rare case in which someone kills whilbe being perfectly mentally healthy. This time the dominators are limited even more by devies that mimic the Psycho Passes of others. I can only see this escalate and get better.

Also kudos to the directors in this episode. First of all, the gore in this series really hits the mark, especially the part where that woman was being beaten to death and how everyone just looked on. It most of all showed how desensitized to problems and violence this society is, and I was really at the edge of my seat. Later, when Makishima started kicking ass I noticed that we’re really talking about Production IG here: it’s been a while since they’ve done a fight scene like that, but I really like the style of trying to be as realistic as possible. That only makes it hurt more.

The one criticism I do have is that everyone is lumped together in this series. I would have liked to see in the minds of those bystanders for example, and why they found it interesting to film that incident. That really was the first time where we really got a good view of what was wrong with the Psycho Pass society, but it’s not in much detail. I’d like some attention on tha in the next few episodes, because it also serves as a good backup for Makishima’s motivations.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Excellent)

52 Responses

  1. Cytl says:

    I guess now we know why Kogami couldn’t shoot the chainsaw guy from the first episode. This episode really felt like an upgrade in plot intensity, production AND cruelty (episode 11 aside). Right now this is the show I look forward the most of what I’m currently watching.

    • Loz says:

      You literally said what I was going to say haha. The first scene from the show makes so much sense now after watching this episode. It looks like things are only going to escalate further.

  2. boa_sting says:

    Well, the person-dying-(or dead, or getting beat down)-and-nobody-stops-to-help thing happens in modern-day society not that infrequently too. I guess these are the kinds of easy opportunities you get when working with science fiction (loosely speaking, in the broadest sense of the genre), to draw references from or make comments about the current day.

    To be honest, I’m not sure if all of the exposition in the past couple episodes on the system and Psycho Pass is really that necessary. Of course, we’re nowhere near seeing the end yet, but I feel like sometimes drawing too many lines and fleshing details out can limit the scope of possibilities and interpretations. There’s a fine line between providing too much structure and too little, where events seem unmotivated / plot holes abound / Deus ex machina.

    That said, it looks like Makishima’s got plenty left up his sleeves. Overall I’d say that things are shaping up well for this show.

    • Puran says:

      The problem with the exposition is that it doesn’t really add a lot to the setting. It keeps showing ways where the system sucks and fails. It’s like the series desperetaly keeps trying to convince us about something that was apparent from the start: Sybil is flawed and sucks.

      At this point I have completely sided with Makishima (well, minus the whole killing people thing…).

      • HunterWulf says:

        Well, you are only assuming things that has never been elaborated upon at all, the Sybil system was made for a reason .. probably at some point crime rates hit an extremely high point that normal cops and methods weren’t working at all in terms of stopping crimes from happening (rather than clearing the mess and capturing the criminal after he/she commits the crime) .. so they thought the more effective way to deal with things is to remove criminals from society before they muster enough will to commit their crimes .. which is in fact very effective.

        The way you assume Sybil is flawed and sucks is extremely short-sighted and flawed in and of itself .. with the exception of the first episode (guy refusing to take medication and resisting arrest by taking hostage) every single crime that happened is propagated by Makshima Shogo .. crime rates are probably extremely low (which means Sybil did a great job in that regard) and that’s what the scene with the woman being beaten to death while everyone watches silently SHOWS CLEARLY .. people were sanitized and didn’t do anything because crimes like these don’t happen anymore (becasue of the extremely low crime rates) and they couldn’t comprehend what was happening.

        Shogo isn’t doing what he is doing becasue Sybil is flawed and sucks .. he is doing it becasue he is convinced that life isn’t worth it if you don’t live it fully .. he believes that human awareness and instincts are more valuable than human life and that humans who don’t have those aren’t humans anymore .. that’s why he is doing what he is doing .. Sybil doesn’t suck and no system no matter how elaborate can be perfect .. so saying it is flawed is silly .. of course it is .. any and all systems made by humans are flawed .. but compared to other systems Sybil is far less flawed (mainly because of people like Shogo being able to slip between the tiny cracks).

        So just saying “It’s like the series desperetaly keeps trying to convince us about something that was apparent from the start: Sybil is flawed and sucks” shows you haven’t been paying enough attention to what the show is trying to say here .. every scene counts.

        • Da5id says:

          So why don’t they have episodes that focus on the system’s benefits instead of how bad it is at enforcing the law?

          • HunterWulf says:

            That’s left for the viewer who use their brains to deduce (and it ain’t rocket science) … like most people do in real life .. usually no one praises a government when it does well except those who make propaganda to it … people only speak out loudly against a governments mistakes and shortcomings and focus on it blowing it out of proportions (usually ignoring any good sides for it if the issue they are complaining about affects their lives directly).

            Long story short you can easily deduce how the system is working from many observations out throughout all the episodes.

            1-The one who planned 99% of the crimes since the start of the show is Shogo Makishima .. it’s almost as if the whole department have no other crimes to deal with (except maybe the one from ep1), remove Shogo and you will have the character sitting in their office playing cards all day (which is pretty much what the department manager says when she explains why they need to remove/erase Shogo from existence in secret).

            2-The people’s reaction to the street beating is pretty clear indication that the people rarely have to deal with crimes to the point where they can’t recognize one happening in front of them.

            3-Shogo himself wants to destroy the system not becasue it isn’t working but becasue it is working and that the complete lack of violence, tension, danger and crimes has left the people sedated and sterilized to the point where they are slowly losing their awareness and instincts which Shogo considers more important than living a life like a vegetable (which is an arguable matter).

            Leaving all this for the viewer to discern is far better than the show dedicating an entire episode to praise the benefits of Sybil .. which IMO would be quite pretentious and forced.

          • Da5id says:

            Ever heard of SHOW, don’t TELL?

  3. Will says:

    This show is just getting stupid, but that’s just my opinion.

    • Puran says:

      The problem is that the setting is… well… shallow. It has been that way from the start. I don’t see how it has gotten worse in the recent episodes though. Care to elaborate?

      • HunterWulf says:

        Shallow !!!.. WTF !!? .. are you kidding, what are you even comparing it to .. what does that even make shows like Queen’s Blade and Fairy Tail .. PP Shallow, what !!?

        This episode alone elaborates on a lot of things .. heck .. here is some food for thought .. Shogo might seem like he has a point when he says that humans have degenerated mentally and physically in order to live in a safer society .. but if you look at the bigger picture you will see that in fact this is what has been happening to humans ever since the dawn of history .. cavemen probably had sharper instincts, far better awareness and were far more nimble and stronger than the average human today .. but life was extremely harsh and dangerous .. the price humanity paid for the luxurious life most of us live to today is the same price the people in the future will pay to get their safe lives .. but how far will this go !!!? .. and will we even be recognizable as humans if we go further down that road (sacrificing our instincts and awareness for safety).

        Shallow .. yeah .. i see that.

        • Da5id says:

          Damn, you really take criticisms of shows personally.

          You may not know it, but trying to say too much is pretty the same as saying very little. The difference is that at least shows that don’t say that much know what they are. Psycho Pass is practically as bad as Guilty Crown in how it tries to make social commentaries that don’t even need to be made.

          • HunterWulf says:

            Damn, you seem to take other people’s opinions personally (i mean you came all the way from RC just to tell me that i really take criticisms of shows personally .. lols).

            No, saying too little is just being lazy, impressionable and pretty much a sign you have nothing meaningful to say or discuss.

            I don’t see how the social commentary in PP doesn’t need to be made or how does it even compare to GC (it’s ridiculous comparing PP to a crappy good-for-nothing show like GC) !!!

          • Da5id says:

            @HW: Calm down, man. The comparison is apt. It’s just a show.

        • Puran says:

          Where did Queen’s Blade come from?

          It’s like I’m saying “I don’t like this painting” and you’re saying “yeah but this child’s scribbles are much worse!”.

          But if we’re going to play the “compare to” game, then… Ghost in the Shell and Texhnolyze. Texhnolyze even has similar themes to Psycho Pass to an extent.

        • Will says:

          This episode made the setting feel more half-assed and cheaper than it already was.

          • HunterWulf says:

            Half-assed and cheap .. yeah yeah .. whatever .. why are even still watching the show then !!? .. go watch your non-half-assed non-cheap shows.

            Seriously .. just spouting baseless claims that make no sense doesn’t make you sound smarter nor above the people who enjoy a show like this .. don’t like it .. don’t watch it and spare us the pointless negativity.

    • HunterWulf says:

      The only thing stupid here is incomplete comments which make no sense and never elaborate on the accusations they contain in any way.

    • honeykiss says:

      I kinda agree, mostly because this episode is regurgitating information that was already fed to us at least three or four episodes ago. Or it felt like the characters were needlessly repeating themselves. Pay attention to the first conversation with the main cast. To me, this was just a filler episode with some new Makishima sequences and more shock footage. Because that’s what Psycho Pass tends to run with when it wants to create tension.

      Also, the public beating is probably Uro or whoever is writing this show pulling from the headlines when this happened to Shingo Minamino last year. Like those two host guys chatting on the train in Puella Magi Madoka. Sure likes twisting the knife, doesn’t he? Except, even if this is an anime with a supposedly desensitized sci-fi society, I find it tasteless how dull and dead the bystanders are to the event in front of them. This contrasts with the lady who was freaking out earlier in the episode so badly that it’s pretty dumb to me.

      Still, I do have hopes that this is just a low spot for the show. I really hope the main characters start with their full investigation and search for Makishima soon -like they were hinting last episode- and not get caught up with his blatant pleas for anarchy to progress the plot.

      • Kaiserin Emma says:

        @Honeykiss: I agree with the headline pulling comment.
        However regarding the contrast you mention I don’t see it as a bad thing, though many people in this society are probably desensitized that doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is.

        • honeykiss says:

          The reason why I said it’s tasteless is because of the ridiculously long statement at the end of each episode saying how these fictional events are “coincidental” to real life events, when that particular event borrowed pretty heavily from a real life crime. I understand the purpose of including criminal acts and the lifeless reaction shots of the crowd within the show’s premise. But, hamming up the negatives to try to make a point about Psycho Pass’s society is pretty lazy writing and was something that was already established episodes ago even.

          It was a pretty pointless scene to me is what I’m trying in vain to say. It felt like it was crammed in to build on the Kougami-Makishima rivalry this show’s trying to build, and that’s sad.

  4. kero says:

    I think the person who was taking the video was one of the guys who already knew something like that was going to happen.

    • HunterWulf says:

      Agreed, i think the Chinese Tech-guy who helps Makshima Shogo was there in the crowd and he is probably the one who sent Makshima the video, but don’t forget that he wasn’t the only one filming the crime.

  5. HunterWulf says:

    Definitely one of the finest episodes so far, not only does it explain the scene from the prologue (the flash-forward scene in the tower building) in which Kogami fights a guy with a helmet which was immune to Dominators and eventually cracks his helmet and kills him (then Shogo shows up .. and now we know that guys helmet was probably copying Shogo’s PP at the time) but it also elaborates that while Sybil has flaws (like any other system) it was in fact doing a great job (the job it was made for) which is preventing crimes before they happen and lowering crime rates significantly .. it seems to was too good at that to the point the society became sanitized to criminal acts and didn’t recognize a crime happening in front of them.

    And in a way that’s the price humans had to pay to get extremely low crime rates via Sybil .. they became sort-of-numb and sanitized, their instincts dulled and their awareness lowered .. many people would actually be okay with paying that price to live peacefully (majority of population) .. other people don’t like that and want to change things (like Shogo Makshima, who believes life isn’t worth living that in that sanitized way) .. but if you look at the bigger picture you will see that in fact this is what has been happening to humans ever since the dawn of history .. cavemen probably had sharper instincts, far better awareness and were far more nimble and stronger than the average human today .. but life was extremely harsh and dangerous .. the price humanity paid for the luxurious life most of us live to today is the same price the people in the future will pay to get their safe lives .. but how far will this go !!!? .. and will we even be recognizable as humans if we go further down that road (sacrificing our instincts and awareness for safety) .. just some food for thought.

    There were hints at that before but this episode elaborated on it beautifully and in detail and started the final act of the show that will lead us to the first scene in ep1.

    Before i end my comment i have to say the scene with the woman getting beaten to death in public was already quite disturbing by itself (specially knowing it did happen few times in real life .. check the ‘Bystander-Effect’ on Google” .. what made the scene far more creepy (and borderline black comedy at the same time) is the robot with the cute face addressing the woman being beaten to death and telling her she needs help and that she is distressed .. simply brilliant.

    • Puran says:

      No, the episode doesn’t at any point elaborate that the system works at any rate.

      It just told us that people react more to bad psycho pass readings than actual violence. And as you said yourself, what happened in this episode does happen today (the bystander effect) only in Psycho Pass’ universe it’s even worse. Yet another example where the series shows us that Psycho Pass’ society is even worse than ours. Sybil is working juust fine!

      Also, in previous posts you accused me of making assumptions on things the series hasn’t elaborated on. And then you’re doing just the same. You make a ton of assumptions that the system is working and had positive effects on society when the series has shown us no such thing at all.

      So here is a challenge. Show me a scene in the series where it is clearly SHOWN that Psycho Pass’ society has improved compared to ours (and hence proof that Sybil had a positive effect on society). Because all I see is a society where freedom of expression is limited (bands having to get authorised), where crime happens all the time and everyone’s fate is decided for them (everyone with a high-ish crime coefficient) and yet everyone feels just as lost as today.

      • Highfinder Highfinder says:

        I feel you are overreacting. For one it is feasible for the Psycho Pass system to have been slowly implemented over time. I highly doubt it was an instant thing. Even then it’s not as if the Psycho pass system is as constricting as the 1984 system. The 1984 system was pure domination and ultimately perfect at that. There was not way to counter it and many were not even in the position to try. The Psycho Pass system is much more free compared to that. There is still a place for self expression in the internet and even provides the illusion of choice. For one it doesn’t force people to take the jobs it recommends them, otherwise Akane wouldn’t be an officer.

        Also you seem to be basing your impressions on the episodes shown which were there for the purpose of showing the flaws of the system and where also Makishima’s schemes. AKA the man who means to destory it. Taking a look at Psycho pass society it is pretty clear that it is safer. Nobodies mugging anyone, no sign of mafia or criminal organizations, no sign of drug use, no homeless and they even stated in this episode that people don’t even bother locking their doors anymore. If that isn’t a sign of a safe environment then I don’t know what is.
        Even though there is still murder the chances of the murderer getting away with it is slim to none. Like you said, execution first ask questions later. No bullshit with lawyers getting out some asshole for self defense.

        Not saying the setting or writing is perfect but I find it within feasible levels. Unlike “from the new world” who’s setting I find unbelievable.

        • Da5id says:

          Just because we don’t see drugs, mafia, or homeless doesn’t mean they don’t exist somewhere in the city. For all we know, there could be plenty of people as smart as Makishima that are abusing the system to hide themselves or cause trouble that just isn’t focused on.

          Here’s an idea: Instead of having the protagonist be someone who was raised by this system to the point they can’t accept anything else (and thus being almost completely unrelatable because we have no idea what it’s like to be raised in that) have them be from a part of the country (or a different country) that still implements the judicial system like in OUR world. Maybe they’re there to observe the system for a foreign government to see if that country should use it as well, or something like that. This way, we could learn about the basics, history, perks, AND downsides of the Sibyl System as the main character does. Have the first 8 or 9 episodes be about developing the other cops (which PP barely does) and how the main character learns to adjust, accept, or reject this new system, examine pros and cons, take a look at how the system effects ALL citizens, with hints of Makishima’s schemes here and there.

          It’s fine to be able to come to these conclusions that it MIGHT be working somewhere that we aren’t seeing, but the story itself makes no attempt to actually explain itself when that’s what it should’ve been doing from the start.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Maybe because it doesn’t need too. You keep saying maybe there is still crime but aren’t taking in all the factors. There are scanners all over the city. Before you even think of committing a crime these things will pick it up. Makishima is shown to be an abnormality which the system is not adjusted to fight. He is also the only person who can actively fight the system within the system.
            Of course you may be thinking of those revolutionaries with the Molotov cocktails but honestly their attempt is laughable. They would be taken down before they could do any real unrecoverable damage because they simply can’t hide there hues from the system when going to attack it.

            With all the blatantly obvious exposition Gen’s doing I don’t think it needs some throwaway lines to justify saying why the system is perfect.

          • Da5id says:

            There’s no way he is the only person who can do this trick. Sure he might be the only one actively making trouble for the police, but he can’t be the only one who’s so committed to his cause that his Pass doesn’t rise. He’s just a sociopath and they may not be common, but they aren’t rare either.

            And I mean people from places that DON’T USE PSYCHO PASSES. The revolutionaries are inside and know they’re rebelling and that their actions are going against something, thus raising their stress levels. How does a dominator work against someone without a Psycho-Pass? I’m guessing not very well.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Didn’t the chief mention that they dealt with one before? They just are not very public about it. I do believe they mentioned how rare it was as well.

            Someone without a psycho pass? Now you are just being silly. They are born with them! The scanners scan. There is no mention of implanting a psycho pass.
            Just…just…are you even paying attention to the show you are complaining about?

          • Da5id says:

            Huh, really? I assumed it was an implant what with all of the cyberpunk and the HUD’s that people on the police force all get and cyber-implants are usually the way stories like this go. My bad.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Hate to admit but after double checking you are right. It is an implant. Though in that case it’s probably placed at birth and is impossible to remove so the argument still stands.

        • Da5id says:

          Lol, it’s okay.

          Anyway, but then my argument about foreign attacks also stands, since the Dominator has no way of registering a person who doesn’t have an implant.

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            The wiki for Psycho pass says they have a device implanted to measure their psycho pass however the official site states that there mental state is just measured without any implantation.
            So I was right…

      • HunterWulf says:

        You call that a challenge !!!, really .. i don’t need to be spoon fed the fact the Sybil is doing its work just fine, it’s freaking obvious.

        1-The one who planned 99% of the crimes since the start of the show is Shogo Makishima .. it’s almost as if the whole department have no other crimes to deal with (except maybe the one from ep1), remove Shogo and you will have the characters and the whole police force sitting in their office playing cards all day (which is pretty much what the department manager says when she explains why they need to remove/erase Shogo from existence in secret to keep the people’s trust in Sybil .. why the heck would people trust in Sybil if it didn’t improve their lives significantly in the first place !!!).

        2-The people’s reaction to the street beating is pretty clear indication that the people rarely have to deal with crimes to the point where they can’t recognize one happening in front of them.

        3-Shogo himself wants to destroy the system not becasue it isn’t working but becasue it is working .. and being too effective for its own good … and becasue of that fact Shogo considers the complete lack of violence, tension and danger to have left the people sedated and sterilized to the point where they are slowly losing their awareness and instincts which Shogo considers more important than living a life like a peaceful vegetable .. no tension, no danger, no need to use your instincts (which is an arguable matter).

        • Da5id says:

          Why would they trust it? Because they’ve never been offered anything different, so know they have to live with it. If you were raised in Nazi Germany and you never knew there were any other type of government for your entire life, would you try to rebel or suck it up? PS: Rebelling results in death by gassing (or in Psycho Pass’s case, your body exploding from being shot with an enforcer gun).

    • Puran says:

      Let me try and explain myself better through dialogue…

      -Hey, I have an idea!
      -What?
      -Let’s make a system that controls every aspect of people’s lives!
      -Uhhh, haven’t you read 1984? That’s a bad idea… At best it might reduce crime.
      -No, actually there will still be crime all over.
      -So what’s the upside?
      -It will limit freedom of expression and censor music!
      -Uh..?
      -And the best part is, it will automatically execute dangerous criminals!
      -I thought we were past the death penalty as a society…
      -It will also destroy people’s lives because their crime coefficient got over some arbitrary value!
      -Dude, get away from me!

      • HunterWulf says:

        A ton of fallacies.
        1-It doesn’t control every aspect of people’s lives like Big Brother, people can still do whatever they want in their own houses and outside as long as it doesn’t raise their own PP.

        2-Crime isn’t all over, pretty much the only one propagating and planning crimes around is Shogo, people’s reactions to the public beating shows they never saw someone being beaten, mugged or killed before, no one carries weapons around, there isn’t a single proof that crime is ALL OVER THE PLACE .. it’s just one guy behind the series of crimes from the start of the series.

        3-The didn’t censor music, non-approve music was being played in the same place as Sybil approved music .. where did they say they censored it !!!?

        4-And weeding out criminals have definitely led to a much more peaceful society, no thieves, burglars or organized crime whatsoever … so peaceful and stress free that people end up slowly turning into sort-of living vegetables … which means Sybil is doing it’s intended job just fine.

        And that you weren’t paying attention during the show XD

        • Da5id says:

          1-That would be easy to accept if they weren’t making it increasingly clear that questioning the system is what raises your Psycho Pass. A society that doesn’t allow questioning of government is pretty much the same as Big Brother.

          2-There also isn’t proof that there isn’t crime all over the city that’s just had to be more quiet. Makishima can’t possibly be the only person to find a way around this system, because otherwise the writers are just being lazy. Plus, giving the only authorized firearms to the cops (and very few at that) is fine for one city, but if there’s a foreign invasion from country that doesn’t implement this system, they are SCREWED. Especially if the guns will only fire on people who HAVE to be in the system AND have a specific level of psychosis.

          3-The fact that they have to approve music is censorship in itself.

          4-You’re saying people slowly going comatose is a GOOD thing?!

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            “4-You’re saying people slowly going comatose is a GOOD thing?!”

            He didn’t say that it was a good thing. He said that Sybel is doing it’s “intended” job fine. The problem is that it’s doing it too well. Just saying.

          • Da5id says:

            So, if that’s Sybil’s intended job, why are we siding with the people enforcing it?

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Who said you had to side with the system? The characters are pointing out whats wrong with the system every episode. They clearly don’t like the system but most of them don’t have a choice in the matter.
            The only ones who have a choice is the officer who’s in love with it and miss Akane who clearly has doubts about it.

          • Da5id says:

            Yeah, that’s another thing. Isn’t being a “Latent Criminal” on the Enforcers sort of an Informed Flaw? So far none of the Enforcers besides Kogami have had any inconveniences or signs that they could do anything as bad as the people they fight, so building that up is kind of wasted, isn’t it?

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Don’t change the subject just because you can’t argue back.

          • Da5id says:

            Okay, then. So we’re following people who don’t like the system but are enforcing it against a guy who also doesn’t like the system. So neither of them like the system. At least in other cop shows there’s more than one main character who actually likes and believes in the law they enforce. Why not here?

          • Highfinder Highfinder says:

            Because that’s the point.

          • Da5id says:

            So the point is that no one likes the system? Why should the audience like the system if all but none of the characters do?

          • Avalon says:

            When has this show ever tried to make the audience like the system? The main characters don’t like the system and they have more reasons after every episode.

            Just because they can all agree that the system is flawed doesn’t mean it suddenly becomes okay for people like Makishima to kill just to prove it to the world.

          • Da5id says:

            But the system allows him to kill (and lead others to kill, assuming they weren’t doing it already) because it focuses on stress levels, but Makishima’s stress REDUCES by killing people, as it does with all the people he’s worked with and even the ones that didn’t. So the system’s not just flawed, it’s fatally flawed. Especially if you’ve conditioned them against stress, because when they finally get stressed because of something in their lives, they won’t have any idea how to work with it or vent it all without harming someone. Plus, even the thought of harming someone would raise their pass, which alerts enforcers, and the instant they hear police sirens, they’ll know their life is over and flip out, like the guy in the first episode. People caught in the crossfire will be too relaxed to know they are about to be killed (as seen with the school kids in episodes 6-8), meaning that most citizens are pretty much ticking time bombs that will inevitably take people with them before they die.

            In fact, you could argue that Sibyl is actually making these murders MORE likely because of all the constraints and censorship and conditioning people to avoid stress instead overcoming it, so really they’re fueling the murders. The cons heavily outweigh the pros when you consider this.

  6. Will says:

    Yo Hunter, I’m sorry that I hurt your feels.

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SuperMario
Oh shit, I didn't realize I put Wandering Children instead of Wandering Son in the title. Thanks for pointing that out Kaiser
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Shuu, mai precious lil' Babbu *hugs*
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol Okadas best anime work cause she didn't really write it lol
SuperMario
I will read on the manga to see how these kids growing up. Boy do i love this cast
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose thats fair enough.
SuperMario
@Aidan: yeah, I know I stretched that image a bit but for some reasons I was goddamn hard to find an image for Wandering Son that I liked. Will make a slideshow later today to see if it looks better
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah I call them by their physical gender because at that stage, they haven't come out yet, right? If I remember correctly, Shuu still regards himself as "boku" rather than "watashi"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I guess this amuses me mostly because theres a jokey line later on in the manga where the girl with shu says "Ha, guess this makes me a lesbian"
Kaiser-Eoghan
There has been some theory/suggestion that Doi is attracted to shuu seeing shuu's femininty, seeing shuu as a woman .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Later in the manga Takatsuki stops having these feelings toward masculinity, which is addressing adolescent confusion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry about this really hope I don't come off as trying to start anything/an arguement/coming off as an asshole here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Whats really interesting about hourou musuko is that in addition to Takako Shimura being a Lesbian , by choosing a mtf character as the protaganist and with shuu's relationship with a biological woman later in the manga, she is dealing with an even more interesting issue of whats called by Lesbians as Trans-lesbianism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Transexual, mtf or ftm are probably the more accurate words to use as transgender also includes transvestite which is a different thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its a very good review though, you don't have to change anything I'm probably being overly anal about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Was wandering Children chosen instead of wandering son to avoid suggesting pronouns in the title? But then the text of the review uses shuus physical rather than psychological gender. I'm not preaching or asking for changes or complaining, I just found this somewhat contradictory.
AidanAK47
Oh Tomogui Kyoushitsu? That is a weird death game manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Checks manga cover* Goes in expecting bondage manga *its a cannibalism horror manga instead*
Kaiser-Eoghan
Probably just me, but I feel the top two pictures should have a gap between them.
AidanAK47
I would recommend replacing the top image of wandering son. Cause you killed the quality of it by stretching it. Never stretch an image.
Lenlo
Id recommend some kind of slideshow or something Mario. For me, its a big sudden blob of images. But thats just me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't deny a single criticism of the Junji Ito adaptation, and yet despite it all it works for me , I forgive it because the imagination goes such a long way with me, I don't even mind that some of them aren't fully developed either, don't need things to be too tidy or explain everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Eh, Maverick was a fairly rubbish, thrown in villain but I liked Lunatics backstory how it linked in with the twist his father was that big hero guy mentioned at the start who ended up becoming a washed up mess.
SuperMario
And I won't take "No, you don't need these pics at all" for an answer
SuperMario
Guys, should I put the 2 arts back-to-back at the begin of the post like this, or should I use slideshow?
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: 91 Days was not too bad.
Anonymous1828545
Travlos here: Thanks for those two historical manga's head-up.
Anonymous1828434
Akumestu soo satisfying to read
Anonymous1828321
Thank you
Lenlo
A shame. Kokkoku had the first truly dull episode this week. Suppose one had to come eventually, but this one was mostly an info dump.
AidanAK47
Like lightning, I strike. Junji Ito is basically interesting ideas with deeply flawed execution. It's not scary, doesn't really capture Ito's style and the animation is bare bones. While the stories themselves can have there interesting points, they are often not fleshed out enough. Honestly I am getting rather bored with it.
Lenlo
Holy bejesus Aidan. Nice triple post. :P

So overall how is Junji Ito? From what ive read so far, it seems pretty hit or miss on the horror/gore front. Failing to live up to the manga. I havnt read it though, so im curious what ya think
AidanAK47
Akumetsu?
Anonymous1828142
Wearing a mask
Anonymous1828142
What was the name of the manga where the main character is some superhuman high school student who goes around fighting Japanese politicians
Lenlo
On a side note, I should really start Violet Evergarden at some point...
Lenlo
"Anime is dying" is just a meme that gets thrown around because of Miyazaki.
Lenlo
Maybe. I dont think average score per year is a good metric though, as the cash ins are increasing, but I doubt the passion projects are decreasing. For instance we had /alot/ of duds this year, but people only really remember/care about the good ones of which there was a fair number. It wasnt a bad year for decent/good anime.
AidanAK47
Well yeah, but they didn't have as many Animation studios back then as we do right now. So it's not so much that we lost artistic merit but rather the number of studios cashing in on popular trends for a quick buck have increased. Even then, I am willing to put money on there being just as much harem anime in yesteryear as we have cute girls shows in present.
Lenlo
Perhaps, but I would argue those were on smaller scales, and even then, thats not so different from Western animation or movies. Just look at Warner Bros and their DC push after the success of Marvel. Every industry has those who chase successful trends, yet they arnt failing
AidanAK47
@lenlo, the thing is though that before Moe crap there was eva copy crap and before eva copy crap you had space opera crap and before space opera crap you had hyperviolet OVA crap. The industry has always tried to cash in on a popular trend.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel people went apeshit over, say highschool of the dead because they never saw a bunch of old B/exploitation films, thus that show was never special to me and even failed at an imitation of such.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think people getting to excited for it being unique to a single medium or for, its setting themselve up for disappointment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I just think its incredibly limited thinking to base it all on just ONE medium, you CAN hold up anime to film when anaylzing anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why should 91 days get a free pass just because its an anime about gangsters? Go watch a film about it instead which theres probably many of, joker game fail you as the mature spy thriller it ended up not being, who cares, Tinker tailor soldier spy exists.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I dislike this "Its unique for an anime/manga to do this, so instantly lets latch on to it, despite fact that same something is already extremely prevalent in other mediums "
Kaiser-Eoghan
Case in point 91 days and Joker game "It has adults, lets pre-rejoice before the show even came out"
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel though because of the level of dissatisfaction with said moe shows that people are going to leap far too quickly on anything just slightly different, getting their hopes up too high and end up feeling let down.
Lenlo
That, or it all comes crashing down around our ears. With stuff like Houseki no Kuni and Made in Abyss from last year however, I think its going to be ok. We are just getting inundated with crap right now.
Lenlo
I do think that some of the artistic part of it has been lost, its gotten diluted in the never ending river of Moe crap. But that doesnt mean its gone. Just harder to find. Eventually all the random moe shows no one cares about will fail and stop getting made. But the anime audience will still be around, to enjoy the better stuff thats left.
Lenlo
Same thing happened in the mid/late 90's and early 00's to American cartoons.
Lenlo
Eh, I dont think anime is dying. Changing no doubt. Its going through a rough growth stage right now. It has a bigger audience than ever and people are trying to cash in on that with lots of shows that are basically the same
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Tank you and damn you for posting screencap of loli-tachibana, I now have cuteness overload a diabeetus =<
Kaiser-Eoghan
I realize thats a very minor detail to focus on though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats why I can really really get into a history manga if the art is top quality, the costume designs.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the historical thing, I have a massive I repeat massive thing for full body medieval armoured characters hacking the shit into things or just the armour in general , especially templar armour designs. I also have an little obsession with male aristocratic army uniforms from the Prussian era and world war 2.
Kaiser-Eoghan
That recent Urasawa manga Travlos mentioned is ending also
@Mario: We might get a complete adaptation of after the rain, the manga is ending.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More historical manga I found, haven't read the second one however, I didn't hear those two mentioned on here either before.
Kaiser-Eoghan
[link src="http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Hawkwood
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Ad-Astra-Scipio-to-Hannibal"]
AidanAK47
@Anon, yes clearly you know better than everyone else on the planet despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up you claims. Thank you nameless Stranger, we owe you a debt for telling us the same thing we hear every year. Let me congratulate you by kicking you out the door.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can generally come up with an opinion for what I follow/watch/read , but I don't really have one on kokkuu.
KTravlos
Well we watched the first episode of Kokkuku. Interesting. The ED theme is quite the fanservice.
SuperMario
@Ktravlos: If your like to check out some other shows this season then I'd definitely recommend After the Rain.
SuperMario
@KTravlos: at least Kino is thought-provoking. I can't say the same for Violet Evergarden. In fact I remain skeptical with VE
KTravlos
I am quite enjoying both Violet Evergarden and Mahoutsukai. Violet gives me similar vibes to the first Kio series, though obviously Kino was a better series.
SuperWooper
EPIC post, anon!
Anonymous1825128
Of course, as ardent fans of anime, the writers of this site would not deign to agree or even entertain the idea that their passion is no longer the same artisanal endeavor it once was.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Oh. Actually surprised I forgot about that. Yeah, when it comes to something being described as edgy I think Goblin Slayer fits that definition perfectly.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, You can still throw down your take if you want.
Anonymous1824209
AidanAK47 - Or the women shields.
Lenlo
You know, sometimes I dont regret forgetting about this chatbox. Missing the "anime is dying" conversation? One of those times
AidanAK47
Oh, Goblin Slayer is getting an anime adaption. I was rather lukewarm on it but I wonder how the anime is going to handle the rather unsavoury aspects. Like the rape. Lots and lots of rape.
AidanAK47
I remember the last guy said he would make a chart and I thought it was a brillent idea as at least something useful could come out of this old dead horse. Then his chart turned out to be a useless jpeg with series thrown to the left or right.
AidanAK47
It does stir up conversation but it's really just the same conversation repeated. I remember stating the exact same points Nayrael and Bokusen are saying around a year ago when this last came up.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Indeed Ratings are subjective but it would at least be a general mainstream consensus of the quality of anime over the years. Not final but at least it's better evidence than one persons general assumption. And other factors are impossible to quaitify.
Nayrael
A good parody of the "Anime back then and now - what happened? meme (if the links are not blocked here): https://i.imgur.com/JZqxz6f.jpg
Nayrael
Not to mention that back in the olden days you didn't see every Anime that aired. Official translators and fansubbers selected the best stuff, which resulted in you seeing the best shows and never even knowing about the shit-tier shows.
Bokusen
I think that people who say "anime is dying" are just getting too nostalgic. It's easy to remember the hit series from earlier seasons. It's less easy to remember all the forgettable generic series that you dropped after 1 episode, and so anime tends to "seem better" back then because of people's tendency towards selective memory.
Anonymous1820731
Why are there more bad anime? Because there are more anime being made. That means the good ones are buried under the lots of bad ones. But saying "anime is dying" from that is like saying "music is dead because I don't like Britney Spears." Why does this conversation always come up, its obvious conversation bait.
Anonymous1820589
@Aidan: You are the first to obsess over the fact that reviews are subjective. And since they're subjective, looking at anime 'ratings' over time does nothing to gauge the measure of effort and artistic talent that goes into making anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I got my answer by the way.
SuperWooper
>average review scores
What do those have to do with whether anime is "dying" or not? You'd need to look at the money.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Want to add that I agree with both you and Aidan, only brought up those two topics back there because I wanted to know what shows now will be popular in the future.
SuperMario
I'm on the side of Aidan regarding to this. For me it's not neccessary means the anime industry has become "better" or "worse", it's just that it takes new shape and trends and based on the number of anime produced, the industry isn't going down soon
AidanAK47
Am I really going to draft up a chart gathering average review scores of the past 25 years just t shut up this talk of anime dying?
But even if I did that won't toss aside this nonsense.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this is complete guesswork.
AidanAK47
Plus the industry is dying? Bloody hell, we got major companies FUNDING anime. Streaming services and more anime coming out that ever before. You can argue that this new anime is weaker but honestly it's just misguided. It takes time but great shows are still coming out. Just like back then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well thats kind of what I meant, what, when passage of time comes into it are going to end up being classic based on that, speculatively speaking.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats probably a much better way of phrasing it, inheriting mantles. I'm going to say that promised neverland is presently along with Titan a BIG modern shounen.
AidanAK47
Anyway my point is that the shows of the past, the so called classics, are just as flawed as the shows of today. It is only through the passage of time that they become classics. When Stein;Gate finished airing, I seen no one call it a classic. Same goes for Madoka and Fate/Zero. Now, you have people putting up the pedestals.
AidanAK47
Though if anything has inherited the Shounen mantle, it's likely Boku no hero.
AidanAK47
There is no big three Shounen and that's honestly for the best. Because in generally the declining aspect of Naruto and Bleach was mainly due to the pressure on the mangaka to put out chapters on a weekly basis. In fact it's pretty much the primary factor in Bleachs decline.
AidanAK47
Bebop is great but even it is hit and miss by nature. Doubt many remember much about the casino episode and the Alien spoof episode is likely not anyone's favorite. Eva is massively flawed but no one wants to admit it due to the massive amount of praise it receives and influence it has on the industry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what is the new big three shounen?
AidanAK47
If we go further back to DBZ, that has tons of issues with filler, dragging out episodes, animation shortcuts, and even complaints of it doing the same thing over and over again with it's story. No to mention the underutilised cast and the everlasting act up putting Goku on a greater pedestal.
AidanAK47
But let us dissect this viewpoint of yours. You claim the Shouen-jump canon as a great, guessing that refers to the shounen big three. But aside from One piece, the other two are emmensily flawed. Naruto is 50% filler and Bleach drops seriously in quality after soul society.
AidanAK47
Also Fate series is trash? That definitely seems aimed at me. What first series are you referring to? Fate/Zero, Fate/Stay Night 2006? Fate/UTW? The same thing over and over again? Sure each series has a holy grail war, but none of them every turned out the same. I am more than willing to admit that the spinoff series outside of the main canon are lesser. Calling them trash however is hyperbole.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Not this crap again. The old "Anime isn't as good as it used to be", how many times have I heard that over the years, and each and every time it proves more untrue.
Kaiser-Eoghan
One point I'm trying to get at is, I don't get throwing the word bad taste around when I know I was probably in the same position as that other fan years ago.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Another thing, for shows we talk up and obviously I've been just as guilty of this, how many of these am I going to be able to recite off by heart years down the line?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't like Madoka but thats a good example of a modern classic that'll keep in peoples minds, people still care.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*its a
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The reason I want to see a new show become a modern classic is because I'm tired of this "fleeting masterpiece" way of thinking, where I a show is super popular during the season and gets talked up as if it'll stick in the mind years on, then weeks later it disappears from memory.
Anonymous1819907
And anime watchers tend to be attracted to series that are just plain boring. The Fate franchise is case and point. The same thing over and over again. It really is a disgrace, to be honest--in my opinion. The first series was great, and I look forward to the movie. But everything in between is trash. But they still get the views, since people are sheep.
Anonymous1819907
The shonen-jump canon, shows like bebop and eva were huge in their time. The industry is just not the same--it's really dying. There isn't the same desire to blow shows up like there used to be. Shonen jump is still at it, but those shows are rarely worth watching, even if they're popular
Anonymous1819907
its a good anime, but it doesn't have the same staying power since it was not an entire industry
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for the long post, I want to get people talking again here.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I would love for this to happen with, say, made in Abyss, that becoming a show that we remember decades from now and still talk about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Something else I want to bring up, what shows do you all REALLY believe will still be talked about in the future . Bebop and Eva still come up regularly to this day, what new shows do you think will become big classics.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To base taste on things you watched ages ago doesn't really work.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I bring that up because I remember a comment somewhere I read that said, the people who trashed guilty crown, forget geass was 10 years ago and if guilty crown had came out back then instead of geass they would have embraced it instead at the time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the bad taste thing, I could easily say Mahouka or sword art are terrible, but back when I watched and loved code geass people where probably bashing it as overhyped shit in the same way people like to do with sword art/mahouka now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I sure years ago I would have been all over violet evergarden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
For example most anime/manga melodrama has lost its effect on me, I hate Clannad and Kanon now and I won't watch the new code geass season because I want to crop it and death note both up to a teenage error and mistake.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And in some cases it only takes five or so years.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If not that, it’s the show no one gave a shit about that you loved or it’s a recent gem.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And it hit me, the stuff you often end up loving, becoming a measure of your true taste, in my case at least are the re-discoveries, the show you HATED or didn’t get the first time round, maybe you watched it again soon after or years later, but then it does something for you that tops anything you watched in your early days.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Then I remember theres a huge amount of big shounens I never cared for and popular writers that I never liked or if I did found somewhat overated.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Given that I’m in my thirties and have been watching anime, reading manga since I was 11, that’s led to a very very large re-watch list, something things I will NEVER get the time to go back to re-assess , for all I know they could actually be terrible series. Then there’s when I DO go back on shows and let’s face it most DON’T hold up (of course its good when they do hold up).
Kaiser-Eoghan
This has been on my back/mind for a bit now, to where I’m actually somewhat confused by this “tastes” thing in relation to myself.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Out of nowhere comment don't you think? Besides it ain't that I have perfect taste. It's just that my taste is the only one that matters.
Anonymous1819624
@Aidan you don't need to keep pretending you have perfect taste in anime. we are all aware your taste is often questionable, as all of ours are at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its kind of a pity because there were moments where I saw potential in it and thought maybe this would be some kind of exception.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But to more calmly review this, I do think its possible to present topics like this, though in a more accessible way, I think even someone more versed in this would be bothered by this presentation, in addition to this manga never flowing properly, the dialogue just feels it was ripped directly from an article or book.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I suppose in all fairness, its right to say I never studied any of these subjects in much detail that it brings up and never did anything sciencey for more than two years at school so I was probably doomed from the start.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know the expected response to what I said there is "why do you read/continue to read things you know you won't like" but if I don't come out of my comfort zone theres no chance of me being surprised.
AidanAK47
Hehe..well Kaiser, I don't remember saying it was good. I just said it was an insane ride. I found its concept interesting but the presentation was just terrible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sorry for ranting but this makes my blood absolutely seethe and boil.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I got to the last two chapters and just stopped caring, the info dumping, the multiple lives thing, especially the my own father/mother thing and magical girl part....fuck...
Kaiser-Eoghan
And yes I'm talking about Qualia....this...was....abject...punishing headwrecking agony to read.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Okay fuck it, just fuck it, I refuse, absolutely refuse to touch anything involving many worlds interpretation, time travel, shared memory,multiple runthroughs/loops ever again under any any circumstances, this is the worst form of storytelling I can possibly sit through from my perspective , I cannot finish this its impossible.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've given away/sold/thrown out anime/manga before, including figures and posters while keeping others , can't remember off hand, but it was to free space.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Together we make....tiger and dragon....Toradora =O
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: To be clearer, any interesting series/films they threw out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Anything else interesting they threw out?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm year of the tiger, Aidan is year of the dragon.
SuperMario
And today is the Lunar New Year, happy new year guys! It's a year of the Dog so for those who is born in the year of the Dog... my condolenses since it is supposed to be your bad luck year
SuperMario
I think they move away so they just throw all their dvds there. There were other live action movies and series in there
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Strange that if he truly didn't want it that he never decided to just sell it.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I tested it and all of the DVDs are playable. The package includes the whole show and the movie. Not a scratch either
Kaiser-Eoghan
pppftt, not leaving it in the trash and instead going out and getting the blurays instead =P
Lenlo
Ha, shouldnt be surprised you read it to
AidanAK47
Everytime I read a newly translated Re:Zero chapter I just hunger for a new anime season. The latest chapter would be fantastic animated
AidanAK47
@Mario, Maybe the discs got scratched and the don't work anymore? Otherwise this is blasphemy if the highest degree.
SuperMario
Don't know how should I feel about that :))
SuperMario
Can you believe it? Someone in my apartment just threw away the Cowboy Bebop boxset. Normally I don't pick up someone's trash but it's a crime NOT TO in this case. %$^&&
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will hearby read Murasakiro Qualia!
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Very good voice casting decision with hourou musuko, the voice actor for the protaganist was an actual 14 year old and sounds kind of androgynous anyway.
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Featured Posts

Fate/Extra Last Encore – 04[No Faith may King]

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Darling in the Franxx – 05[Your Thorn, My Badge]

Today on Darling in the Franxx, Hiro gets a STD. This was a surprisingly good episode as I found myself pretty engaged with the goings on of the plot. Now previous episodes of Franxx haven’t been all that bad besides the excessive sex symbolism but up until this point I would have deemed this show […]

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