Posted by psgels on 13 June 2013 with categories: Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet

Aah, the build-up. The thing is, this episode on its own was really good. Here you can really see that Urobuchi Gen wrote this, in the cold way he analyzes his settings, and he really has a character who is as objective as possible, setting aside any personal bias you might have. That part on its own ws really well written.

Gen loves to use this cold, realistic and objective character on one side, and a naive (but not stereotypically naive) character on the other. The fact that this character is not stereotypically naive is important: this prevents cheese. Ledo went from this cold-hearted guy to someone with a lot of empathy. The thing is that I have trouble buying that he changed so radically. He was very well able to think rationally: the fact remains that the Hideazu have threatened the existence of humankind. I can understand that he would feel conflicted about killing humans, but he didn’t even try to consider both options. That was a missed opportunity I feel.

I believe that Gargantia would have been best if it was about a season and a half long. As weird as it sounds, the creators should have had more episodes like number 6 and 7, dedicated to explain exactly why the characters in this series changed, the way they did. Right now the character-development is great, but a bit out of left field. Pinion for example: he was this normal guy until last episode suddenly revealed that he has this big trauma with his lost brother, and now suddenly he’s leading his own ship that takes over pirate ships and… stuff. Note though: these are nitpicks. Overall I like this series a lot.
Rating: 5/8 (Great)

17 Responses

  1. kero says:

    seven was good, but six was yeurgh.

    I agree that they should have explored some more of the underlying motivations of the characters and a more gradual development of the characters, or at least sewn in elements a bit earlier to bring that into fruition. Pinion’s about suddenly escalation into power crazy money grubber was a bit too much.

    The best I’ve seen something like that done was probably Gungrave.

    The story writing for Gargantia feels adhoc.

    Even the girl, and the other two girls, the one with the porn name Melty, and the other that I can’t remember, how do they figure aside from being fanbait?

    I think if I was to write it, I would have gone down the route of showing how ‘humanity’or galactic alliance whatnot was very shitty and up to lots of nasty deeds, and that hideazu complemented earth nature better, and so he’d question was it right to continue fighting for what was immoral.

    I’d make the girl salvager lady more competent, and add a hint of darkness to Pinion earlier, get rid of the girls, and replace them with hotboys (at least that’s fanbait I can enjoy ;p)

    I’d also make the young sick boy smarter, and work it somehow that they’re on the boats that run out to forage, perhaps have some connection between him and Pinion (love of engineering etc, reminder of sibling relationships with dead brother, could work)

    I’d probably have to kill young boy, or pinion or both for emotional impact at some point.

    mm, that’s all I’ve got so far. + More kick ass robot battles of course.
    ___

    ___

    looking forward to seeing what happens now there’s a second big robot

  2. Mazz says:

    I have to disagree with you about Ledo. I was discussing this episode A LOT on the crunchyroll forums and I have to say I find his reactions justified. If you put his reaction like this I think it makes more sense. Ledo has just found out that there are both good and bad humans in the world. Gargantia is good, pirates arent. The way the GA is run makes me feel as if there probably arent many bad people, and if there are, they would die pretty fast. Now he is figuring out that like humans (who they originate from), there are both good and bad hideauze. The space ones are presumable bad (assuming they threaten humanity like chamber says. Although I’d take any dialogue from chamber with a grain of salt) and there are good hideauze (earth/sea hideauze). He feels guilty for killing all those innocent hideauze, and the fact that he was lied to was just icing on the cake. I feel it’s less about their humanity and more about the fact he just slaughtered some babies. Otherwise I agree with you.

    Oh and thank you for not saying “how are they gonna end this series in 3 episodes.” Many people were complaining about that which I find dumb since 3 episodes is like 20% of the show.

    • psgels psgels says:

      Really, they’re saying that about this series, of all things? I actually think that it can get a pretty good ending if it plays its cards right.

  3. TheUltimateReaper says:

    This episode was good. I’m not vastly impressed, but its starting to look like Gargantia is solid.

  4. iz4n4gi says:

    Actually the trauma of his long lost brother was revealed in a previous episode when Bebel played the flute while his brother was shipped off in a pod.

    The Moral conflict about the Hideauze is not actually about whether or not they are good or bad. Wars blur the line and when they go on for centuries one often forgets why the blood feud even started. The actual Moral conflict is about why the Alliance forces justify the war in the first place; the Hideauze are said to be inferior species / abberation when actually they are the bio-technical advancement of the human species. Chamber’s justification itself is also null–the Hideauze on earth get along with the humans just fine, as long as they stay out of each other’s way. The Verderous planet itself is the utopian term in which human survival is not reduced to mere technological progress and constant war, and where evolution is possible without a sort of crude social darwinism. The contradiction is the ideologies that separate the common humanity that belongs to both the GA and the Hideauze.

    • Nyangoro says:

      Pretty much. It’s a conflict of realities. The GA and the Hideauze is very clearly a continuation of the war begun by the “ancient” human civilization. The two sides in that scenario simply don’t know how to live together, because their mindsets are so radically different that the feel coexistence is impossible. They felt that this fundamental difference would become a hindrance to both sides (which it was, based on the footage).

      Meanwhile, on Earth, the two sides grew up in their own realms. One occupying “land,” and the other occupying water. This allowed them to live separate from each other, making way for cohabitation. So long as they left well enough alone, they didn’t need to disturb the other.

      This series has always been about conflicting worldviews, and it just comes to a head here.

      I do understand the character development issue though. Granted, I do think that their motivation is easily inferred, but the fact remains that it still has to be inferred. Whether or not the amount needed to be inferred is too much depends on the individual, but I can easily see where that’s coming from. Personally, I think Pinion’s actions are based around the idea of legacy. He and his brother were set up to unearth amazing treasure. Revenge was only part of it. This was his and his brother’s great finding, and he wanted that knowledge to last. Hence, his seemingly power-hungry appearance here.

  5. Arno says:

    Wow, what a disappointment.

    First, the sudden transformation of cheerful Pinion into overlord of the seas was unsettling.

    It was also accompanied by the moralizing disapproval of Gargantia about the fact that he mastered the pirates. Again. They really love their pirates.

    Second, the robot proved Ledo wrong, in a very simple way that Ledo should have inferred himself :

    – Hideauze are not humans but another species

    – Hideauze are unavoidable enemies

    With that and the way his dismay was directed, completely over the top, Ledo’s character regressed into a wimpy 5 year old kid. Chambers was basically telling him “shut up and listen, kid”.

    And then they brought back the fetus-looking crying baby hideauze again. Although it is biologically very unlikely, and although admitting they are not human.

    And the show was full of a feeling of moral disapproval, although they were showing that humankind immediately benefited from killing the hideauze. Scavenging the bottom of the sea is not an immoral luxury for them, its the survival of their civilization.

    It’s ok to have a show that says “don’t kill and seek peaceful coexistence”. But then you should not show those who are killed as irreconcilable enemies of humankind, and their killing immediately bringing a huge benefit for civilization.

    • Mazz says:

      So far all we know that they found are a bunch of weapons of mass destruction. Sure helpful to the survival of the human race.

      I wouldn’t say the Hideauze are enemies of humankind. At least, not ALL hideauze are enemies of humankind. The ones in space? Sure. But the ones on Earth are innocent. Ledo’s problem is that he just killed a bunch of innocent creatures. Chamber makes it out as if all Hideauze are bad, which isn’t the case. They didn’t NEED to kill the Hideauze to survive, and we can’t say the WMD’s will benefit anyone yet. And I’ll bet there was a reason the Hideauze took over that base. They aren’t stupid, after all, humans are their ancestors. That last part is speculation for now, so we’ll have to wait and see. You bring up some good points that need answering.

    • jzar says:

      yeah, Ledo reminded me of another whinny kid….Shinji Ikari, who I didn’t like then.

  6. Sywen says:

    a lot seem to miss some crucial facts

    Ledo did not know the Hideauze were intelligent beings. the GA knows this but they hide it from their soldiers.

    He just found out they are intelligent, and he has just been slaughtering innocent babies and females. i think his reactions are quite understandable. killing innocent babies and females is very different then killing soldiers like he did in space or killing criminals, like the pirates. It is explicitly said that Ledo ( and i assume every soldier of the GA) never even saw any nest, let alone females or babies.

  7. Arno says:

    “Innocent babies” is the most disappointing of it all, because 1) it is biologically impossible that they would look like humans as fetuses and then turn into squids, and 2) it’s really a cheap emotional trick.

    As for females, it is a bit anachronistic in 2013 to talk of females as militarily innocent. In this series the adult human females are not shown as innocent, and the female hideauze are not human anyway. Objectively, the destruction of baby and female hideauze will help human babies and females.

    They tried to further develop a feeling of doom and gloom by making them find canons as their first scavenging results, but they also showed that those canons were used immediately to defeat pirates. It is not mass destruction weapons, it is target weapons, and it solved their number one problem.

    Also, even on earth the hideauze were always a latent threat, and were aggressively preventing humans to access critical resources. And they were NOT humans. The little squirrel with the girl is genetically closer to humans then the hideauze are.

    • jonas says:

      Lets imagine they are like gorillas (animals that kind of look like humans). Would you not feel bad about killing a shit ton of them just because they are in the way?

      Even if Ledo is a soldier, he is not a psychopath, of course he is going to feel bad about killing non-combatant creatures.

      Ledo is experiencing what Metal Gear calls “Combat High”:

      “Due to large quantities of adrenaline released during combat, the body enters a state of intoxication. In this state, the combatant’s sense of guilt fades.

      When the combatant recovers from a combat high, he may suddenly be stricken by feelings of remorse”.

      • Taara535 says:

        jonas has it right here. It shouldn’t even matter if they are humans are not. The fact is, as the video shows, they are intelligent. One cannot justify the slaughtering of intelligent animals (or formerly humans). It would be like someone rooting for the destruction of baby dolphins (and furthermore we have distinct evidence that in this universe the Earth Hideauze – fairly harmless – are much more intelligent than dolphins).

  8. Arno says:

    To be more precise, fetuses showing limbs different in nature from their future adult shape would be possible if it was a metamorphosis species. Like frogs or butterflies. But neither humans nor squids are metamorphosis species.

    It is even stranger when you consider that there are two metamorphosis here, since we have seen three stages of development of hideauze :

    – fetus crying like a born baby

    – mute angel-looking child

    – sea monster for Hanna Barbera pirates cartoon

    The two first states seem to exist only to show it is so wrong to kill them.

    Chambers also says that that species has developed an exoskeleton, and to illustrate that mollusks with shells are shown. But he hideauze are never shown with a shell, or if that is an exoskeleton, it is so flexible that it must have reduced the human bones to jelly.

    It is not explained either how multiple eyes can grow on the limbs of a squid instead of the head, without being destroyed all the time. Except maybe to show hints of human intelligence in something that cannot look human.

    But yeah, even without thinking about all that, when you see for the second time the face of the guy inside the butt/mouth of the squid, you can begin to wonder if this show is serious.

    • kero says:

      agree. making the hideazu foetus look human was a cheap trick to garner a emotive response that was needed to provide impetus for the plotline of Ledo feeling conflicted.

      I would have been more full of admiration if they could have arrived at Ledo feeling emotional if they had done it without what were essentially crying human babies being squished to death. I found it a turn off.

  9. jonas says:

    This episode is basically Twilight of the Idols. Pinion´s attitude has become more arrogant, because Ledo proved that there are no gods, that the whale squids were just animals, something that he had suspected before, due to the death of his brother (he has gone from a “Good/bad” based morality, to a “strong/weak” based one, like Chamber).

  10. ServantOfPriss says:

    A little too late, sadly. This should’ve happened four or three episodes ago. Nothing impressive, if you ask me.

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Kaiser Eoghan
Hopefully I'll make time for Irae and subahibi, don't know anything about clockwork. Ended up getting involved in what will likely turn into a business course soon.
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Some really great Visual Novels localised this year. Muv Luv Alternative, Sharin no Kuni, Dies Irae, SubaHibi and clockwork key line. It's good year to be a VN fan. Now I just need an update about Baldr Sky.
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Subarashiki Hibi is getting published by Front Wing. Hell goddamn yes. Finally I can read it and be traumatised for life.
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mm okay thanks!
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@Anon1, Think you might just have to go with a torrent. It's pretty hard to find direct download anime these days.
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the latest episode of rakugo just made my heart sank. i didn't think it would get better than it already is. i thank god that i didn't read ahead
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does anyone know where I can download the remastered version of the Utena series? without torrent?
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the same very thought here Lenlo. What I considered the weakest part turned out to be so layered. Sorry for ever doubting you, Rakugo.
Lenlo
And that smirk at the end, beautiful
Lenlo
The weakest plot point of S1 has just become the best part ever.
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OOH MAN. I was not ready. The entire first season was all a setup. I cant. What. HOW DOES IT GET BETTER
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Cant wait to watch Rakugo tonight, just got home and im lookin forward to it,.
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Some protest because they want there porn. That I suppose I can understand even if I think they would be better off buying some nukige. But then there are those who demand it just for the sake of standing against censorship. They don't give a crap about the game or the fact we are getting the exact same thing the japanese got. What? Censorship of sexual organs? DOWN WITH CENSORSHIP!
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There are people actively proclaiming they won't buy the game, because they can't see dicks. That is not hyperbole. This is literally exactly whats happening here. And they just act so goddamn self righteous about it. Porn is not the goddamn point of these games. Shouldn't even be in them in the first place.
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So another Sekai Kickstarter is up for a trilogy of Visual novels called A Clockwork Ley-Line. Chipped in my bit as I am going to be buying this regardless but like goddamn clockwork you get the idiots yelling for Mosaic removal. No matter how I try to rationalize it, this just sounds stupid.
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Just whenever I think Rakugo may be dragging its feet it comes out a gives me three big strong moments in this weeks episode, you will know them when you come to them.
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I mean the spoiler code in the comment section. ^^. Like I don't mind if readers give (potential) spoilers but I don't want to ruin the fun of other readers as well
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I seem to remember all those old html codes stopped working on the old shoutbox too at one point.
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There was also originally an ability to animate text too of the shoutbox and have gifs appear in the message box but not as links.
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I remember some HTML code worked with the old shoutbox but nope. But I suppose you could change the colour of text to white...though that would effect everything you write.
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Btw, do we have spoiler tag here Aidan?
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Despite being fine with anime in English, I've almost always felt that voice acting in videogames isn't as good.
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Hey mario, that anime feminist blog was well, kind of awful. While they're well intentioned, it felt like they were pushing tumblr stuff onto chan stuff and that always ends up in a smoking mess.
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Okay I'm going to erase my memories right now
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@ckspike: Hand Shakers, the very quality that makes you brain cells die while watching it. Well, I actually think the music is one of the best part of the show, now that you mention it like that...well...*slap my forehead*
ckspike
... my roommate just told me the background music when I'm watching Hand Shakers sounds like a bad porno... Now I can't unhear it. Fuck!
Lenlo
I havnt kept up with Academia, for some reason it just didnt catch me as well as the movie first did.
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I actually dont read many blogs. Mostly just this place and the occasional pop on reddit
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I irregularly follow the episode reviews on ANN and sometimes read standing on my neck. I fell out of the habit of following random curiousity.
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I also think that this chatbox here plays a great role to keep a fair amount of readers for the site, as many sometimes just come here to give their two cents on certain anime.
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SuperMario
Just really wonder, what are other anime sites that you guys follow beside this? Well, ANN and RandomC are a given, but I found myself haven't bothered to read ANN's episodic reviews lately (mostly due to time constraint)
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Don't tell me this is gonna be a regular thing.
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There we go
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Oh god JSON objects. I thought that nightmare was over
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Mine is working probably as well. Thanks a bunch K-Off and glad to hear back from you.
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AidanAK47 I can't get into Fate since like with Nanoha there's a lot of stuff with those names in it. Zero was the most straightforward, yet the buildup was very dragout but the payoffs where very worthy.
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testing message.
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This is what I get for updating the bloody plugin.....
AidanAK47
He finished it and was telling me what he thought of Saber defeating Gilgamesh. Minute he said that I was like "OH GOD..." He watched the Deen 2006 adaption. Sadly it loos like he's not going to bother watching UBW TV despite me showing him part of the berserker fight. With Fate/Extra, Fate/Grand Order, Fate/Apocrypha, Fate/Oath under the snow and all the rest this problem will happen again.
AidanAK47
You know I wish the Fate series did a better job naming it's series. I was introducing a newbie so I gave him Fate/Zero first. He loved it so I specifically told him to watch the UBW TV Series and don't mistake it for the movie. He then went and watched the movie. I told him to watch the TV series regardless and brought up the MAL page to show him which one.
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Ah, there's definately no harm in doing further reading on more arthouse stuff before reviewing it/watching/after watching, it extends our understanding and is pretty much required.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: Go for it, you might sell me on reading it.
Kaiser Eoghan
Yeah, I generally only write reviews every now and then, and they tend to be kept simple and to 200-300 words. My writing ability only really works when I write in stream of consciousness.
Anonymous855550
Zestiria is such a feast for the eyes... The colors and backgrounds are so vivid and magnificent. Story has improved on the game's weaknesses too!
Lenlo
Given enough time, im sure I could write something, but as I writer I tend towards quick, decisive statements of what I think and why. Engineer, so technical documents are like the only thing I know how to write.
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@Supermario ah, I'd say I'm the opposite in that I sometimes don't know why I like something so much, and when I read a review about it I can relate my own experiences and put it in my own words pretty well. Can thank Highschool eco for that
SuperMario
But to tell you guys the truth, I never think that I'm cut out as a reviewer (even now), because I'm a type of viewer who more perceive (I know why I like/ don't like stuffs) than express (just can't never explain stuffs well)
SuperMario
@Topgavin: it's depending on what grabbing you really; as I always find shows with heavy symbolisms like Penguindrum or Flip Flappers the easiest to dig deeper. But those are always my kind of show to begin with
Topgavin
I'd find it really hard to write something about a show without reading about it first; watching it one time by myself I usually only notice the big things. Stuff like Flip Flappers I had no clue what half the episode's hidden meanings were, can't imagine reviewing a show like NGE or penguindrum.
SuperMario
that's exactly how I write my reviews anyways
Lenlo
I cant imagine writing a review, id just repeat myself with different words but the same intended meaning over and over again
AidanAK47
Wonder if I should write a review of this. Might be hard without giving too much away.
AidanAK47
(Finishes Sweetest monster Visual novel)
.....well....fuck.
(Buys all authors visual novels on steam.)
Lenlo
Sadly, I doubt Nioh will get a PC port. Sony is pretty stingy on their exclusives, like Bloodborne. But I am so very happy with Nioh. I love technical combat like this
Kaiser Eoghan
I suppose this means I'm looking into this rpg maker game thing now isn't it? Might aswell.
Kaiser Eoghan
I remember the word animerican used to describe things like avatar last airbender. Filthy word =P
Anonymous853606
God no. Jiro Taniguchi died.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, I have been hearing very good things about Nioh. Really hoping it gets a PC port.
@Topgavin, No real surprises there.
Topgavin
I'm sure most of you have heard, but looks like New Game is getting a season 2 out of all things. Apparently they had good sales, and I can certainly see why. CGDCT with yuri undertones and clean animation is hard to get wrong, let alone not sell.
Lenlo
Just started with Nioh, and oh my goodness do I love it.
Anonymous852887
anyone play resident evil 7? its so good.
AidanAK47
Thought that's because the term American Anime just feels wrong to me on all levels.
AidanAK47
@Anon, they do not. They are cartoons.
Anonymous852775
DO people call D.C. Comics animated movies American anime?
AidanAK47
@Anon, I am certainly interested in seeing the next episode. Those minisodes were pretty good too. One thing I thought the writting faltered on though was the comedy. It really was a little too slapstick considering how serious the drama was.
SuperMario
@Lenlo: ah remind me the time I went to Texas (Corpus Christy) before X-mas time and I was wearing short pants and thongs (nice!!!), then went all the way up to Niagara Falls and I was almost freezing there.
Lenlo
See, I love winter, but its almost non-existent in Texas
Anonymous852268
@Aidan: I agree. I loved To the Moon. It's so good seeing emotional drama that isn't centered around high-school kids. Seeing the ups and downs of a whole long life of a person gives everything that happens way more impact.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: An Australian friend put it as "A sunbaked rock in summer, a giant zoo, that actively tries to kill its population"
SuperMario
Not that I'm enjoying the winter either. Why autumn always go so fast?
SuperMario
Believe me but summer here is way too much. When it's too hot and dry it starts bushfiring really badly. And it's too hot that even a big fan straight in front of you don't do you any good
Kaiser Eoghan
What is this mysterious creature known as summer you refer to? =P My country is grey as a black and white film =P
SuperMario
I'm wondering how freezing you guys have to endure right now, but the place I came today in Aussie just reached 50 degree celsius this noon. So hot I felt myself burning
Lenlo
I think the part I liked the most, was just how satisfying those mud splatter sounds were. I dont know why, but its in my head
HelghastKillzone
Youjo Senki 6 subs came out at 11pm PST.
Lenlo
Atleast Rakugo didnt get held up. Still amazing as ever
AidanAK47
Well I spent my time waiting for it to come out by playing and finishing To the Moon. Got to say, it takes some real skill to make a game in RPGmaker that can make you really feel something. But maybe I am just a sucker for this kind of story.
SuperMario
Hey, I would be very frustrating if Hand shakers got delayed. But I agree this delay is caused by Being X. And Scum's Wish, haizzz, this is the show we love to get pissed at. Haha
Anonymous850298
I blame Being X.
AidanAK47
Sigh, Youjo Senki 6 is delayed. Why is it always the best shows that get delayed? If an episode of hand Shakers was delayed no one would give a crap but nope. Gotta be the show you want to watch right away.
AidanAK47
@Anon, in both anime and manga I never liked that character much.
Anonymous849783
Meh, dropped Masamune-kun. Seriously why do they always have to shove in these one dimensional characters with a crush out of f* nowhere. It never made any of these shows more interesting, it's always the opposite.
Vonter
@Kaiser Eoghan - I find it weird having the teacher being so unashamedly evil. In a way I like that, but at the same time I can't relate to the notion of people like that existing IRL.
Kaiser Eoghan
As I continue to watch scums wish, it becomes an anger inducing as much as it is engrossing experience.
AidanAK47
Or the UBW movie over the TV series. You just don't do that.
AidanAK47
That's like recommending someone to watch NGE death and rebirth instead of the TV series.
Kaiser Eoghan
Meh, I just got fed up with the padding in the tv version.
AidanAK47
Jojo has the kind of entertainment that clicks with you or doesn't so I understand if you didn't get into it. Though to give it a fair chance I would recommend trying the first episodes of Battle Tendency. It starts at episode 10 of the first season, you can jump to it. If that doesn't catch you then Jojos really isn't for you.
AidanAK47
Don't listen to Kaiser. The OVA is bad.
Kaiser Eoghan
....found out where a friend had been off to lately, making a movie and he ended up actually making and finishing and I got first dibs. Had a hard time commenting on it as I know the guy personally.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: Totally with you on the academy thing.
@Lenlo: If you ever try jojo again and get onto part three go for the ova instead as it trims down an overly bloated arc.
Lenlo
For JoJos, I couldnt get through the first season. It just didnt hook me
Lenlo
What I dont understand is how anything other than Mob Psycho won best animation, cause my god.
Lenlo
I think Erased lost not because of the libido, but because Yuri was "gay" and "progressive" and most important of all, recent. Yuri had just finished airing so it was stuck in everyones heads. Of course it was going to win everything
AidanAK47
Erased truly deserved to win that category and it only lost because people voted with their libido instead of their head.
AidanAK47
If there's one thing that really makes me angry about these awards it's Yuri on Ice winning most heartwarming moment for "The Kiss". Because A) It wasn't a fucking kiss and B) Even if it was that isn't heartwarming. Oh I am sure something is getting warm but it sure as hell isn't your heart.
AidanAK47
Likely the main reason Kira didn't win main villain because Jojo has grown to a episode count which makes people hesitant to pick it up. Not to mention many would lose interest by Stardust crusaders midpoint.
AidanAK47
When it comes to judging quality you have to leave it to the people who have experienced enough of the medium to truly be able to critical judge it. Pretty darn sure most who voted didn't even bother watching everything worthwhile each season and just gravitated towards whatever they were exposed to.
AidanAK47
Lets not forget someone voting multiple times and bot voting. Because yes, people really do that. As you two pointed out, a public vote was never truly going to be a accurate gauge of quality. For you are not only opening the vote to anime lovers but also newbies and those who simply haven't refined their tastes yet.
SuperMario
so they either abstained their votes (which actually was reasonable); voted for something popular or even voted based on what their kids liked the most (which was flat out unforgivable).
SuperMario
This from my own frustration mostly when it comes to awards like this. But I've been following the Academy Awards for way too long now and every now and then you heard something that really disheartened about their voting process. Like for example many of the Academy members admitted that they don't care to watch anything animated because... it's kiddy stuff
SuperMario
TL;DR: my point is I have mixed feeling about the whole Crunchyroll awards. One more thing that I noticed about the nomination is that the pool was dominated by shows from the first half of last year.
Lenlo
I dont think public voting is the way to go is the thing. Popularity contests are horrible. With popularity contests moe is going to be near the top every time, while shows like Rakugo never really have a chance. And I think there is little doubt that Rakugo was one of the best shows last season
SuperMario
@Lenlo: there is an issue with the first thou, because reviewers like us don't actually represent the whole public opinions. So it's all come down to the very reason they create an award in a 1st place (your second point). But with voting we can't really reason why the winners win the trophy, right?
Lenlo
The problem with awards like that is for them to mean anything they need 2 things. 1) A board of voters who are actual reviewers who have watched a large portion of what was on shelf that season. 2) Reasons for why each thing won its award. An award without reasons means nothing
SuperMario
Other issue about voting for these awards is that the nominating body and the voting body aren't always the same. Usually the voting body is broader and more generic in taste, so I'm not at all surprised when shows like Rakugo couldn't win. Too art-house for their liking. Well, at least it got nominated which for me is good enough.
SuperMario
That's the thing. When it comes to awards, they are more 'popularity' contest than actual quality, since people tend to vote for the safer choice (the one that are both popular and mildly critical success), YOI fits the bill here.
Lenlo
Those awards were not the best and little more then a popularity contest imo.
SuperMario
Actually with that line-up I had no problems with YOI taking the top spot
SuperMario
I actually forgot about the Crunchyroll Anime Awards so I came to check the winner. Guess which show won AOTY huh? Alright, at least it wasn't Kabaneri or Jokers Game
Kaiser Eoghan
But the best one was Mask of Phantasm.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Aidan: And return of the joker also.
Kaiser Eoghan
It has aged admittedly very poorly, but I always got a great kick out of that old 1994 spiderman cartoon.
Kaiser Eoghan
@Mario: I think its fair to use the term K-anime or C-anime for the Korean and Chinese influenced stuff, or maybe just anime would be just as appropriate. If some Argentinian guy can write/draw a manga for a Japanese manga magazine (big comic superior thats the magazines name) and have it actually be called a manga, it should be the same for China/Korea.
Lenlo
Mhmm. Marvel had the movies, but DC had the animated series
AidanAK47
Man, I loved the villains of Batman Beyond. Inque and Shriek had such interesting powers. The DC animated shows tended to be the one that didn't treat you like a kid while watching.
Lenlo
Well, they released a trailer for Samurai Jack S5, so its coming. Batman Beyond I also enjoyed
AidanAK47
Ah Samurai Jack. Wonder how that Adult swim revival is going? Batman the Animated Series as well didn't need Batman to crack off jokes every minute to be great.
Lenlo
Agreed. Samurai Jack was one of my favorite cartoons for that very reason. It ran the gamut of genres, each episode being something different.
Also I used Nichijou cause it was the first to come to my mind as a "Kids Show", though Love-Ru works as well
AidanAK47
One thing I think Cartoons could do to move away from the stigma of being for kids is having more genres than Comedy and Action adventure. Or at least stop putting comedy in everything.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Every fanbase has it's fanatics. There are idiots everywhere.
@Lenlo, I thought this might come up though I was expecting more of "placing Berserk and To Love-Ru in the same category" thing. Honestly I don't have a rebuttal for that. What is an isn't anime is really a matter of what anime is to you.
Lenlo
Now Aidan, you say putting Berserk and Scoopy doo in the same category is wrong, but what about Berserk and say.. Nichijou? A similar problem comes up and I think thats more to do with Berserk being a pretty major outlier (And I love it for being so. Have all the original Dark Horse volumes on my shelf)
Lenlo
Really though, reading Reddit arguments about it is so much fun.
Lenlo
I do think that recently, a number of shows have been trying to move cartoon, and animation in general in the west, away from meaning "For Kids".
Lenlo
Im not sure sure about that Anon, look at the Steven Universe and MLP fanbases.
Anonymous840067
Aidan, that isn't true... Anime has a 'special' name because it's fan base is a lot more fanatical than the cartoon fan base.
AidanAK47
Though I think the whole "Its not for kids" is the main push. Looking at my anime collection the majority is rated 15 with a few 12s. It's like the way you have Young Adult and mature, Comic books and graphic novels, or Visual novels and Eroge. They are essentially the same thing but appeal to different audiences.
AidanAK47
Though I think what really pushes this argument is that the term anime at least has a badge of honor. You don't see people demanding a show to be called a cartoon.
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