Posted by psgels on 2 November 2013 with categories: Kill La Kill

The recent discussion on fanservice has gotten me thinking a bit, especially after I found this infographic about Kill la Kill. It’s true that the fanservice in Yozakura Quartet is just bad and distracts from what makes the show good or interesting, and the fanservice in Kill la Kill is much better because it objectifies everyone, and it has a reason behind it, and the argument you often hear is “it’s awesome so who cares?” – but still I see no reason to bring some more nuance in the discussion.

I mean, reason or not: Kill la Kill cashes in on the popular female empowerment trope. A woman kicks ass while dressed in skimpy clothing. Alone, this would be fine, but with how often this is done, it’s hinted that it’s almost a requirement that if you want to kick ass, you need to show some too. The good shows indeed build all sorts of symbolism around it, but does that make it right? Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends. Does having fanservice alone ruin a character? Nah. It’s just one part of a show. But the problem is that everyone reacts to it in a different way: for some people it weighs more heavily than others. And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.

But I do think that Kill la Kill is among Hiroyuki Imaishi’s best attempts at this kind of nuance. I mean, Gurren Lagann was basically a sausage fest (the most badass woman: Yoko, who both fits the badass female character to a T and pretty much got a short end of the character development stick), and Panty and Stocking WAS a series that was partially based on making fun of female stereotypes. This show finally feels balanced, and it’s really enjoyable because of it. This episode was no exception by the way.

The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men. Hajime no Ippo currently is a good example of taking that a bit far, with all of the current penis jokes and all. But also the series that go out of their way to make their characters bishies hereby alienate most of the male population just because they have nothing to watch it for. The truly good shoujo series have guys who are good looking, but who can appeal to everyone.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Great)

53 Responses

  1. martin says:

    nice study on imaishi making fun of stereotypes. 2 more shows are worth mentioning, re:cutie honey ep 1 and magical shopping arcade abenobashi ep 3 + 12. he directed these single episodes and i got the sense he was making fun of his own subject matter by simply taking it over the top. he took the ecchi genre over the top in cutie honey and in abenobashi it was the lolicon fetishes that are so prevalent in anime/japan.

    maybe i could be wrong and say imaishi is just one really immature and insensitive director. even still he is a director better than most at being immature and insensitive.

    this episode was hella enjoyable but it did have a moment that made me uncomfortable. when that dude kicked matoi in the gut and struck her hard in the head even after she was powerless and on the ground is some really sensitive imagery.

  2. AidanAK47 says:

    I always thought of the skimpy outfits female superheroes wear were a kind of tactic. When you think about it the majority of there opponents will be men. And any man will hesitate to attack a half naked women. That hesitation was a great advantage.
    The fanservice in Kill la kill does feel like it has a point. Plus it funny that there’s not just male fanservice but female fanservice. I mean how many guys have been stripped in this show? That said I think the female empowerment image you link is looking a bit too deeply into it.

  3. TheUltimateReaper says:

    Jesus Christ that link. People seriously go through lengths to justify their own idiotic conceptions on sexuality, not to mention just how much the issue is driven about women. Kill la Kill is fucking awesome, and other than a few metaphors or whatever about clothes, and casting off shame, and nudism and whatever I don’t see any reason to really over analyze like I’ve seen people do.

    “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.” It might a be bread and butter way of looking at things but this is what I gather as any messages, and I like it, I think it’s great, I think that’s positive, but people still can’t get over their fanservice gripe.

    Some service is bad, some good, and some I don’t think really matters. I like Kill la Kill through and through, I like the Kamui, I like the crazy powers, I like the outfits, and I like the teacher who is always trying to take off his shirt.

    • jonas says:

      Because cartoons are for kids, and people need some justification to keep watching them. The empowerment thing isn´t even subtext.

      • TheUltimateReaper says:

        >Calling anime a cartoon
        >for kids
        >Brojito a lemon and tomato are both fruits but I wouldn’t put a tomato in a fruit cake.
        >Multiple target demographics in the industry, youngins are just more popular

        People are just stupid.

      • AidanAK47 says:

        “Because cartoons are for kids..”

        Couldn’t even finish a sentence without failing miserably. Even taking out the fact that you call a anime a cartoon there’s this complete misconception of cartoons being just for kids. Go ahead and watch the spawn animated series and try telling me that again.

      • jonas says:

        “people […] often play a card that allows them to pretend that their liking such a show does not reflect on their tastes at all.

        […]It’s not as if that we are truly expected to only watch and enjoy the consensus masterpieces. It’s just that we often behave as if we are expected to, and that we impose this on others”.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Jonas, listen here. That image was not trying to justify a bad anime. It was trying to justify the fanservice in an anime. You are just way off base. There’s plenty more in this that they could attempt to justify with artistic merit but they tried to justify the fanservice because that’s what people are raging about and making them lump Kill la kill in the same pile of generic fanservice anime as queens blade or to love-ru. Which is wrong. The thing is that regardless of whether fanservice has a point or not, it’s still fanservice. But that does not make this a fanservice show because fanservice is not the main point of the show. It’s not out of some silly guilt.

          On that note.
          “90% of anime and manga is crud (Sturgeon’s Revelation); or, 80% of the good stuff one gets out anime and manga comes from 20% of the examples (Pareto’s Principle, ‘The Law of the Vital Few’); take your pick. Either way, many shows people like will fall under the ‘not excellent’ spectrum of quality.”

          That applies to every medium of entertainment. And I do mean every medium. Music, video games, film…90% of it is crap. It’s not something specific to anime and manga.
          And in many cases the person who likes a bad show genuinely believes it to be good. Because the enjoyment of the show tends to faze out the flaws in their eyes. You see that happen with good anime too. Any time someone talks about their favorite anime they tend to speak only of the positives of it and many times fail to say anything negative about it. No matter how good an anime is there’s always flaws, people just prefer not to see that.

          So to sum it up, your comment is still pretty stupid.

          • jonas says:

            Fanservice: Long, full shots of robots in mecha shows, sexual elements, long fight scenes, and violence can all be considered fan service as they are specifically aimed at pleasing the fans of any given show.

            Kill la Kill can´t be compared to Queen´s Blade, Freezing, or the wrestling show, because Kill la Kill is not boring as hell.

            I´m not denying my comment was stupid, but the fact that you can only understand Ghostlightning´s essay on a superficial level tells me we are on the same boat (hint:”I posit however, that guilt is a feeling from moral wrongness”).

          • AidanAK47 says:

            And anything can be considered anime regardless of whether it’s made in japan or not. Lets not get into semantics here. It tends to make things lose meaning.

            Just to make sure I reread it before posting this and I am sure I understood it fine. Basically he’s talking about how in an effort to avoid judgement or attack people who like an anime which is widely regarded by mass opinion as poor or terrible will tend to take a stance of claiming it has merit artistically or by labeling it as their guilty pleasure instead of simply admitting that they like a bad show. Not really rocket science.
            However I counter by saying that in many cases people actually truly believe a show is good and are not attempting to cover up a bad show because they like it. Because to them they don’t see these flaws other people speak of.

        • jonas says:

          Close, ghostlightning is talking about “ressentiment”, that is why he starts with this:

          “Guilt, yes guilt. Nobody wants to feel it. It implies one did something wrong, and is inferior to those who do otherwise.In anime and manga however (not to imply that it doesn’t occur elsewhere), taste is part of a social dominance game that’s played for high stakes: self-esteem in the internet.

          Sure it sounds silly, and it is. But people do operate under the paradigm of taste. They accuse each other of having bad taste, and praise creative works for being ‘tasteful,’ as if the benchmark or touchstone for such can be taken for granted”.

          Now compare with this: “According to Kierkegaard ressentiment occurs in a “reflective, passionless age”, in which the populace stifles creativity and passion in passionate individuals. Kierkegaard argues that individuals who do not conform to the masses are made scapegoats and objects of ridicule by the masses, in order to maintain status quo and to instill into the masses their own sense of superiority”.

          You can read more about it here: www2.fiu.edu/~filosof/Site/Current_Issue_files/1 Eva Melnikova.pdf

          • AidanAK47 says:

            Sigh…I hate it when people talk like this. It means I have to read the damn thing three times just to make sure that I got it. So lets break it down.

            Basically people tend to use a persons taste to judge them as a means of pumping up their own superiority complex and placing another individual lower than them.
            To which I say, well duh. That’s obvious.
            This in turn stifles creativity because in order to be good, works are forced to conform to popular opinion. An those who do not conform with popular opinion are ostracized.
            Which is a pretty good point. In attempts to make movies gain more money there are test screening which a random group of people could change the entire film. One particular example is with I am legend which was supposed to have a more depressing ending but was changed because the test audience wanted something more actiony.

            And if this isn’t what you are getting at then try to summarize it into a sentence. Because if your goal is to get the point across then the most effective way is to explain it a clearly and concisely as possible. Talking like this is just a pain in the ass for someone reading it and doesn’t show intelligence.
            Actually is this an attempt to try and pump your own superiority by attempting to prove that you are more intelligent than me? If so, I am afraid you only proved yourself a sore loser.

          • jonas says:

            Sorry, I thought you were interested in this kind of things, my bad.

          • AidanAK47 says:

            I don’t mind talking philosophy but the comments aren’t really the best place for it.
            This is an anime site mate, if you want to talk about philosophy try the shoutbox up there.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Well, honestly, I like those kind of things too, but I don’t think the infographic guys are wrong – in fact, I had reached the same exact conclusions myself, independently, on a simple moment of fridge logic.
      If you think about it, it makes sense. For us, each episode is just 20 minutes of fun, the whole series will amount to less than 12 hours total. For the creators, these are days, weeks, maybe months worth of work. I hardly see these smart writers (who have proven being smart and loving to have fun with what they do) just going for “oh, look, there’s going to be explosions and naked chicks fighting, this is going to be SO AWESOME”. The tongue-in-cheek sexual symbolism was present throughout Gurren Lagann, with its whole spiral thing; it didn’t necessarily mean something DEEP, but it was there as a guideline. It’s easier to write if you have a loose theme, because being forced to adhere to that will give you interesting associative ideas. I can totally see the thought process behind male sexuality -> spiral -> reproduction / DNA / evolution -> galaxies etc. That’s what led to Gurren Lagann. Panty and Stocking was also ripe with jabs at moe culture and fanservice – the tease being that the most ‘available’ girl, Panty, was also the absolute opposite of what anime usually considers attractive, that is a shy, modest girl who does not show any sexual desire. Sex is always present in Imaishi’s works, if only to make fun of those prudish anime who will hypocritically pretend girls don’t have sexual instincts and that the most daring thing a boy and his girlfriend with do in high school is a hand hold and a kiss but still sneak in panty shots and jiggling boobs at every moment. I don’t think it’s a true “empowerment” statement, I think he’s just trolling the average (especially Japanese) viewer.

    • Mazz says:

      “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.”

      This. I agree this is the message of the show, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn’t change the fact that the fanservice annoys me, but I can accept it as long as the rest of the show is good. So far, I’m digging it.

  4. Lazy says:

    That’s fine and all, but what about the episode?

  5. unentschieden says:

    Do note that we didn´t see who took out the clubs. They ended up crucified with brooms and stuffed into the trash… who was on cleaning duty?

  6. ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

    @psgels I feel that the comments section of your last Yozakura Quartet review, and the shoutbox, influenced the direction of this Kill la Kill episode review. :D

  7. Malkuth says:

    Those revealing outfits and visual pronunciation of the differences between male and female physiology (erroneously labelled as fanservice) is actually part of the plot and is sad that viewers need bullet-point presentations to understand it. Not only in Kill La Kill but in Yozakura Quarter too as well as the Monogatari Series and so on. Unfortunately, none has made similar graphics for those though. It is very tiring to read complaint after complaint about pantyshots and gainaxing boobs, but nothing about unrealistic muscle-bound macho male MCs, shotas, and other stereotypes that sexually objectify guys through equally (if not more) reavealing animation. If nothing else this train of thought is the problem, since it diverts attention from both the anime and social implications. The only thing it achieves is to treat lightly the subject and this way quenching the guilt of pretentious feminists.

    • psgels psgels says:

      “The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men.”

      ^ I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside.

      • Aegd says:

        I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows.

        I don’t think kill la kill is an example of that. On the contrary, kill la kill is a good example on how to use fanservice in a good way.

        High School of the Dead is a good example on how they ruined a otherwise decent shows with stupid fanservice that made no sense in the context.

        In kill la kill it’s basically the other way around. The fanservice makes sense most of the times and fit the setting and presentation of the story.

        There are also shows that are made with the pretense of having a story, but it only being a hollow shell to present adult situations. Shows like Queens Blade, that’s basically a watered down pornographic anime.

      • Malkuth says:

        >> I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside. <> I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows. <<

        This is a common over-generalization based on lexical revisionism. Fanservice, like pron are used wrongly by most viewers limited to sexual innuendo related or not plot and character development. First of all it is not limited to sexual innuendo, and second it must always be unrelated to the story. With its original definition you are absolutely right, it degrades an anime by targeting a specific sales group. The problem is that when broadening the term viewers and most importantly reviewers build up a negative bias, and focus their thoughts on the mislabeled fanservice ignoring what they have actually watched.

    • ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

      This comment made me chuckle because I know I’m one of the people who has complained to you vociferously about the pantyshots in YQ (on ASuki). Oh how interconnected is the anime blogosphere.

      But yeah, sorry for tiring you out, Malkuth. :3

      • Malkuth says:

        Don’t worry, at least you can discuss your opinion. Most of the time in AS/MAL/AniDB (but more often bloggers) just complaint about female outfits and/or mannerism, because they sexually objectify them, totally missing what is going on.

  8. Spike says:

    People sometimes get objectification and celebration mixed up because they are focusing on the medium (anime) and not the work itself. Gurren Lagaan’s Kamina was a celebration of GAR and Matoi is an attempt at the polar opposite.

    It’s also a whole lot different from
    Female Character A: How’s your day going?
    Female Character B: It’s going pretty well *insert pantry shot* What’s for lunch?
    Female Character A: *insert sexy pose* Just eating some ramen
    Female Character C: *running into frame with Boobs bouncing* (extra detail given to motion) Hiiiiiiii Guuuuuuiiseeeee!
    Female Character A: *while groping Female Character C* OH YOU’VE GOTTEN BIGGER!!!
    ETC ETC ETC

    Wow I just wrote an episode that would sell 8k Blurays easily.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      You forgot about the girl walking in eating banana/lolipop suggestively.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Add in a cute mascot character, an incompetent bland male lead, and put the girls into a school club that does nothing of what’s supposed to do, and you got a best seller right there, sir.

  9. Juno says:

    lol What happened to the episode review? XD

    On the topic in general, I find this political/social cartoon somewhat relevant: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6e259VXFI1rt8sgdo1_500.jpg

    I think here, it’s a combination of things many guys like to see on girls, and a possible concept of liberating one’s self from social constraints. Especially in Japan, where showing skin is STILL considered bad by social standards. It’s still “fanservice,” but it’s done in a way that supposedly makes it okay to a lot of the audience. That said, it was obviously targeted far more toward the male demographic, no matter who ends up liking it in the end. I definitely see a lot more females enjoying it on this side of the Pacific than in Japan, since female sexualization is starting to be embraced by a lot of females here, who take it with a sense of pride, rather than as an insult.

    On a personal level, though, I still can’t help rolling my eyes. The fanservice is a little too over the top, even if it’s tongue-in-cheek. I still enjoy the show immensely, including the animation and transformation scenes and whatever. But still, this kind of fanservice is always a slight turn-off to me, so to each their own. =P

  10. Jalapeno Bagel says:

    “And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.”

    As long as we’re off-topic from the show, I’ll just say my two cents on this. It’s hard to create any story (let alone a good one) that caters to everyone without knowing what everyone wants. That kind of requires you to care about the genre label and conventions (of course, if it’s by complete coincidence, then you’re a happy prodigy). I don’t know if you’ll agree, but I argue that the best shows are the ones that do what they think is best for the audience they’re aiming for. Like you said, everyone reacts differently to fanservice, but it’s not just limited to that. If you have little hope of satisfying everyone, then might as well focus on satisfying who you want to satisfy.

    I think critical discussion of anime like this frequently goes off on the wrong things: aka, it’s akin to expecting a professional basketball player to have better soccer skills because it’s more well-rounded.

  11. Saitoq says:

    “Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.”
    I agree with this. Although I think the reason for why they do this is because that’s how it often works in the real world. If a female wants to be a successful actress for example, in most cases she has to show off quite a lot of cleavage to get there, regardless of how good she is. It’s commentary on what girls very often have to do to survive.
    So what a lot of women do is embracing it, they take charge of their own sex appeal and does it for themselves, if someone enjoys the view, good for them, but overall they do it for themselves. In this show that would be Satsuki’s whole attitude about wearing the kamui.
    I hope as the show goes on Ryuko will become good enough to kick ass even without the kamui, but for now it’s necessary for her to wear it if she wants to even stand a chance.

  12. mulligan says:

    Fanservice discussion aside, I thought this was the best looking episode so far of the five. It’s a relief for me eyeballs not to have manic action or an overcrowded shot composition every ep. Unapologetic craziness is what this series is good at, but great colour design, shot composition and sequence storyboarding can’t hurt.

    It’s early days but I’ve got a feeling that Trigger is almost treating this series almost like an “episodic showreel” of sorts, with each episode showing off a different trick every time. Not a bad way to kick things off for a new studio doing their own original content.

  13. Hogart says:

    I think that there are enough hints that the fanservice isn’t just for cheap thrills and comedy (though they clearly want to have their cake and eat it too). Whether they capitalize on any of the themes they’re toying with remains to be seen, but at least so far the fanservice isn’t much worse for wear than it was in a show like Fujiko Mine.

    I think people are a bit too sensitive about these things anyway. I mean I despise fanservice for fanservice’s sake. It’s a bit insulting unless the entire point of the show is titillation. But I feel that allowing shows to experiment with these kinds of uncomfortable sexual themes is the only way we’ll get over ourselves as a race.

    In short, at least they’re getting us to talk about these things a bit more seriously, and all we’re still watching their dumb hot-blooded highschool anime.

  14. Autumn Season 2013 Preview says:

    I thought 5.5/8 means excellent

  15. kero says:

    Speaking of fanservice, were there any guys who were able to see past the fanservice to watch Free?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, I watched Free. My wife gave up on it, but I found the time to watch the last few eps after that.

      • kero says:

        What did you think of the story, and of the fan service? Do you think it would put people off watching an anime even if it was a good one?

        • Hogart says:

          It was a pretty basic and average club anime, really. Nothing special aside from the fanservice and a bit of the usual KyoAni animation budget.

          The only thing other than the novelty of the fanservice that made it worth the watch was some of the attention to detail for the swimming club aspects. But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.

          The fanservice wasn’t so much a problem as it was frankly the only real draw the anime had going for it, because KyoAni wasn’t that serious about the premise otherwise. I give it a pass because it provides me with a handy reality check for boys who try to tell me girls shouldn’t mind the fanservice in their anime.

          • kero says:

            “But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.”

            ???

            .

        • Hogart says:

          http://gargarstegosaurus.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/i-suppose-this-is-a-review-of-free/

          They were on a swimming club, so they were really into that aspect of Free. I was on a swim team when I was a kid, but that was probably too early in my life for me to really go on a nostalgia binge with Free.

          • kero says:

            ahhh. I get that.

            well sort of. I got into (watching) basketball because of slam dunk, and now I’m pretty much only watching Kuroko no Basuke, because there’s basketball in it.

  16. Jo says:

    I’m gonna say that I am enjoying this show, it’s got great energy and direction and its pretty creative as well, but can I just say something?

    I think you guys are viewing the way the issues surrounding the fanservice in show in a way thats too simplistic. For starters, the female fanservice and male fanservice is not even on the same level because not only does male fanservice happen less, they’re always shown as taking their clothes/ posing for the audience of their OWN accord, while for the girls in Ryuko’s case she constantly looks uncomfortable and unhappy in Senketsu, not to mention the visible ogling from all sides which is absent when male fanservice happens AND the slightly rapey undertones from earlier eps regarding Senketsu. Even when she stops feeling that way it is more about acceptance for Satsuki and Ryuko than anything else, that they HAVE to wear the things they might not want to to achieve what they need to, and damn everyone else who thinks lowly of them for that.

    While this is more than most anime would do regarding fanservice in their own show, does no one feel that this is also inadequate? Can an issue like that which plagues societal attitudes towards young girls today and contributes to victim blaming for things like rape really be explained away by such a simple thing?

    I know this show is not trying to blow our minds with any philosophical debate regarding sexism/feminism or whatevs, but is it wrong to want just some more sensitivity if they’re going to breach the topic anyways?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, it might be a bit to ask, it all depends on what their creative goals are and where they decide to go with the series. I think we’ll need to wait at least a few more episodes before we know for sure, because they may have chosen a Gurren Lagann sense of style because they’re aiming for a Gurren Lagann type of twist. Who knows?

      Besides, Studio Trigger is hardly well-established. It’s not like they could just randomly afford to take all the risks in the world, especially if you consider how safe and stale most of the anime the major studios create are. Just being different and taking a risk is impressive enough if they pull it off, so I’d rather be supportive even if they don’t change the world and end up making another, inferior Gurren Lagann.

  17. DmonHiro says:

    I am calling it now:
    1. Mako’s antics are all fake.
    2. She’s either going to betray, or she’s completely broken inside.

  18. RABUJOI says:

    1. Great find on the infographic; it’s a very elegant, eloquent exegesis of Kill la KIll so far.

    2. Like all art, for me the best anime are the ones I and others have the most to say about. This means even an unspeakable horrible anime that spurs elevated conversation (though a real life example escapes me) is “better” than a boring anime about which nothing need be said or drawn from it. Whatever its controversies, KLK is evoking discussion with levels of nuance, which is good.

    3. It’s not just that the fanservie in YQ is bad and a waste of time, it’s that there’s no reason for it to exist beyond titilating a portion of the audience, which may well be the majority, but is still unnecessary. You can say lots about the fanservice in KLK, but you can’t say much of anything about Nanami Ao flashing her shimapan or Nurse Juri stripping off her uniform to reveal a bikini.

    4. YQ itself knows that its fanservice is useless, to the point where it’s including it for “compliance purposes”, or possibly even as tongue-in-cheek. The fanservice is a resolute afterthought, inserted in places where its absense wouldn’t necessarily be missed. Fanservice is made to be crucial to the themes of KLK, but it’s simply tacked-on and irrelevant to the themes of YQ.

    5. It’s telling that the most prominent female character – Hime – shows the least amount of skin; in fact, she’s downright covered up most of the time. Unlike the women in KLK, her gender and sexuality play little or no role in her development as a character. Rather, she has had to work hard since rising to the mayorship as a young child to gain the trust, respect, and love of the townsfolk, most of whom are her elders.

  19. Sword Testing Cliff says:

    I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.

    “Balsa” “Torogai” “Faye” “that chick from the 12 kingdoms(Yoko I think). . .actually a vast majority o fthe women from that show” “Probably ALL the female characters from LOGH” “main character from Psycho pass”
    And now that I think more about it, actually a lot of the women from Moribito were written extreemly well. I think that frankly that show should be common viewing for new writers on how to portray women.

    99.999999% of writers don’t know how to write women, period. It’s not their fault either. How women are as people, is VERY different than how many people in the “female empowerment” demographic Want to see women in media. Writers, studios, directors, company chairs know this. Which is why most writters couldn’t be bothered to actually acurately portray female characters in media (yes this happens in western tv a lot too)

    Pretty much the prerequisite for “female character” = man with tits & no penis, and looks pleasing to the male demographic to get more sales”

    Because that’s pretty much how they act/portrayed.

    There are a few execptions and all the ones I can think of off the top of my head that I’ve seen.

    Pretty much nowdays, how much money you make (especially as an anime) is pretty dependant on how sexual/female powery(there’s a HUGE Cuckholdery demographic among the male population of anime watchers)
    the main female characters are, OR how “moe” they are (O HAI THAR K-ON. . .and your 238423945523 clones)

    That’s just the way it is now and the way its gonna be for a while.

    THIS show gets away with that because everything is just way over the top, that its pretty much making fun of all of that. (while cashing in at the same time.)When you go over the top, you pretty much become a parody and all that “Sexism” seriousness doesn’t apply. Personalyl I think people are thinking way too much about it, Although on the other hand the show is pointing out how rediculous the industry is with writers pretty much being bad at writing women/overly pandering to different demogrpahics, rather than just making something. . .GOOD (Hello breaking bad, game of thrones.)

  20. Faruk says:

    Err you didnt review the episode.

  21. Taiga says:

    So.. what was the episode about?

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SuperMario
@Niello: Aside from your #1 (which ưe'll agree to disagree here), it's a nice set of shows you're follwing this season. Did you watch Violet Evergarden first episode thou and how did you think about it?
SuperMario
Great. Now I can't even send message here through my laptop.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: i think it's the same issue with kisscartoon. The original site was shut down sometimes ago, and now there are plenty of Kisscartoon's fake domains that are annoying as hell
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: its back up now though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Its front page has server issues from time to time sometimes for hours.
SuperMario
I just read some manga on kissmanga a week ago, is the site down already?
Niello
Well to be fair batoto is down because of the site owner personal reason.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So Mangahere, mangachapter, baoto, animea seem to be gone and kissmangas front page is down , mangafox is slow, whats next to go down....
Niello
I don't currently see an anime this season that really stands out from the others. Right now if I have to rank them
1) Miira no kaikata
2) Kokkoku
3) Sora yori mo tooi basho
4) Koi wa ameagari no you ni
5) Takagi-san.
Not counting Devilman Crybaby since it's already finished.
Niello
@Eoghan I love Urobuchi and still find the Godzilla film weak.
SuperMario
I just looked through the nominations for the Crunchyroll Anime Awards and to my surprise, it's a pretty solid lineups. Find myself agreeing with most of their choices there
AidanAK47
Actually forgot about it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't know why you don't just read kara no shoujo 2 instead.
AidanAK47
And Himawari is actually boring me. It's proving difficult to push myself though just to see where the point that makes it highly regarded comes in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: In the end I was pretty much curious about it.
AidanAK47
Yep, that's it. Gonna stop discord displaying what I play from now on. It's weird when people comment on it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Now my current rankings: 1. Devilman
2.Junji itou
3. sangatsu
4. Cardcaptor sakura
5. Pop team
6. Evergarden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*Aidan
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm joking obviously, but I am surprised to see you playing Himawari Aiden.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh Aidan you and your lolicon visual novel you =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Alonaria: Shin Godzilla had the evolving godzilla thing and that freaky ass final shot too, it also justified itself quite well i think by showing how relevent he is today, given the nuclear thing and that it drew on the Fukushima incident essentially.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Alonaria: Thats a far better and shorter way of putting it than I.
Alonaria
I wish I'd just waited for the other parts of the Godzilla movie trilogy to be released. As it is, I'm just going to remember it as "that incomplete movie." And the character designs kind of blurred together for me, which was really disorienting.
Anonymous1746949
Oh psgels is back
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I've seen other Godzilla things so I pretty much was supposed to see this anyway.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Or you know you could always take what I said with a pinch of salt, because you know....I don't get on with Urobutcher.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea behind it is definately cool and a different spin for the franchise though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe I was held back a bit by the cgi or the mediorce voice acting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I'd need to see its followup before properly assessing it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Godzilla often makes for silly films, but lke alot of silly older films the silliness and seriousness combine without clashing, this one is too Poe faced .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I saw that Godzilla anime film, I'd describe it as watchable in parts but far too caught up in setup mode and an unlikeable protaganist , it could go somewhere with what it raised at the start but this is an example of a first film in a trilogy that suffers from being unable to currently stand on its own.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I generally feel that Itou's stories have a winning track record but theres exceptions, Uzumaki and Gyo in manga form struggle toward the end and the first episode story the anime chose to adapt is, while fun one of the weaker offerings.
Alonaria
Honestly, the shorter stories have been more effective at getting a reaction out of me, though. I actually didn't really enjoy the first episode's first story, mostly because I found the MC too obnoxious. :.D Maybe because my younger brother chased me with a bug once and it was really unpleasant. XD
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: It wasn't just it coming out of her mouth, but when they were stamping on them too.
Anonymous1743747
@Kaiser: Yah, I was horrified for like 5 seconds but the other characters made me crack up. :.D
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although it was mixed in with laughing my ass of eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of all the Itou stories to be un-nerved by, its the second half of this third episode oddly that does it for me and I never get uncomfortable during anything .
AidanAK47
@Anon, We are working on it.
Anonymous1742736
Are you planning on making a top anime of 2017 list?
Amagi
Yeah Mash is one of the few good ones it seems.
Amagi
Oh damn, good that you remind me, I didn't pick anything yet. But I guess I will go with Altera, considering that some of them don't look that good and I own her anyway. Would have wanted the Scat one but the drawing looks weird.
AidanAK47
Which Bond CE did you pick for the 2 mill? I went with the Mash one. Only only whose artwork I liked.
AidanAK47
Might settle for making Bryn my endgame lancer though.
AidanAK47
As I said in my Apocrypha post, I have no interest in any version of Jeanne. My top priorities for my endgame team is Isekander, Scathach and assassin Shiki. And Shiki is a welfare so only need to worry about the other two.
Amagi
Yeah, I was considering to keep rolling for the new 4* at first but I really want Jeanne Alter and she's coming soon.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, I tried rolling for Karna and got nothing. Though I think Bryn is better. I plan on rolling one more time with the saint quartz we are getting to try for NP2. Though we do have the valintines event coming.
Amagi
@Aidan: Same here, just got Brynhildr. Even though I already got Karna last month. But I wanted her, nice design, finally a single-targed 5* and she's even one of the few servants related to my country.
KTravlos
@SuperMario. The contemplation of the death of humanity, and the loneliness, both were very disturbing to me. Kinda like thinking of my grave.
AidanAK47
YANDERE GET. Bryn's mine baby.
AidanAK47
Gonna try rolling for Brynhildr tomorrow. Bit annoyed they chose to translate it as Brynhild. I mean it's not incorrect but her name is far more recognisable as Brynhildr
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The grind wasn't that bad for me. Mordred carried me for it. Though I managed to get Siegfried in the gacha despite not being on rate up. I admit that the event was rather lackluster. Story wasn't that fun and the whole saber restriction was a pain. Also gonna take me a while to readjust to regular damage.
Amagi
Man that FGO Saber Wars event was annoying. I am happy finally I have 2 mio. altrium now and am done with it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Reminder that netflix Godzilla anime is later today.
Amagi
Damn I didn't noticed that ankle band of the little demon from the intro scene of FranXX 01, now I feel stupid.
Lenlo
Yuasa is great! Ping pong and Tatami Galaxy are still some of my favorites
SuperMario
Oh fuck, the lead singer of the Cranberries passed away. I literally just listened to their music yesterday. Damnn, sad news
SuperMario
@Kaiser; thanks for considering me but I believe Wooper is much more a Yuasa's fan than I am
SuperMario
Far out!!!
SuperWooper
Yuasa will be answering questions on Reddit's anime board on the 20th.
SuperMario
@Niello: what do you mean regarding Yuasa?
SuperMario
@Travlos: I agree that Girls Last Tour is a special little gem, but in what ways it's disturbing?
Niello
Holy cow, Masaaki Yuasa AMA!! What magic is this?
Niello
Meawhile, Japan took a different approach and we ends up with a bunch of .hack rehash and diving more and more into escapism. Until we eventually got isekai and then it just spiraled into a sea of mediocrity.
Niello
While that opened its own can of worms, at least it opens up element about making ends meet, managing irl relationships, earning extra income for a poor family, getting cheated etc.
Niello
in the characters real life just fine. Something more a long the line of Net-juu but more technologically advanced. And I would say that plenty of those have been superior to Japanese online game and isekai story shenanigans. That said, it doesn't mean that those don't have their own kind of traps they usually fall in. A bunch of those instead focus on the aspect of making money off of games.
Niello
...Getting stuck in a virtual reality game and being transport to another world that happens to be like a game are completely different though. I don't know what is it with Japan and getting stuck in game plots considering that there are loads of other game-base Asian novels that came before it that manage story lines where they manage to tell compelling stories in game while balancing what happen
KTravlos
I finally finished Girls Last Tour. What a profound, fluffy and disturbing masterpiece. Bravo.
Amagi
Yeah. I feel the world swap is pretty much pointless when real life isn't relevant anymore. It's just a stupid as hell excuse to combine fantasy wish fullfilment with self-inserts, which is why these main characters tend to be 29 by now, just like the big part of the otaku community.
Lenlo
Of those you listed, no, I dont think they get explained? I mean, SAO did, but I dont think that falls into your category.

Thats why I liked .hack//sign over alot of more modern game Isekai. Also .hack//sign did explain what happened to Tsukasa.
Amagi
Considering how bad most of these are I wouldn't wonder if they wouldn't even bother with an explanation and just end it with the characters being happy in that game world and that's it. Or magic and the whole harem gets transported into reality at the end because power of love and such.
Amagi
I have no problem with a sci-fi fantasy mix, I liked .hack//sign for example, but it annoys me that such an incredibly bizarre situation gets never explained. Or maybe it will but it never happened so far because none of these LNs was ever finished and concluded yet. I just wish to know how they explain that.
Amagi
I mean all those shows in which the character just finds himself stuck in a real world that's (coincidentally?) the same as the game he recently played. Be it Overlord, Death March, Log Horizon or the 300 other series with that premise.
Amagi
Some thing that always bothered me about game isekai for which I never got an answer so far: did any of those series ever end and/or explain how the warp has happened and why the MC is in the game? - Not talking about .hack, SAO and such where the action of getting trapped is part of the premise
Niel
@Eoghan - Btw, Kokkoku isn't a time travel. it's stasis, apparently. Looks very promising so far. Though if I am to trust the manga score, it's shit.
Niel
But is Toradora really slice of life? As far as I can see it's straight up romance.
Lenlo
And Mario, ill rag on SOL all I want! :P

Wooper, its true good shows transcend genre, as there are still some like Toradora I like, but those are exceptions that prove the rule so to speak.
Lenlo
@Niel, yeah I base my potential % on the odds something gets/stays good.
AidanAK47
I am of similar mindset about Franxx. I want it to get better but I don't really see it doing so. Unless the other characters get a majority personality boost or the MC stops being a plank.
Niel
XD
Kaiser-Eoghan
I confess....I only sat through just over half an episode of aldonoah.
Niel
Since it's Trigger, I will give the benefit of the doubt. I'm just very skeptical about this whole formula.
Niel
The way I can see this series improving is through world building. And if other aspects are going to improve too, it's going to revolve around that.
Niel
It leaves about as much impression on me as much as the first episode of Aldnoah did, and I dropped that one straight away. The character chemistry doesn't look like it will go places that's not cliche. The gimmick doesn't seem like it has much potential either.
Niel
So you're all betting it on "this is going to get better". I mean, I hope it gets better. Though right now this feels more Kiznaiver than Kill la Kill or LWA.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'd nominate Mario to do the devilman review as he's the most immediate Yuasa fan to do it and Bam is too awol to write it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The cute girl shows just bleed and blend in my mind now, same with the isekai shows.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Devilman, my show of the season, unless after the rain ends up having some emotional wallop.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So for me its looking like: Junji itou, Cardcaptor sakura, keeping up with sangatsu, wait and see on amegari . Not watching a time travel or trigger show and I remain unable to sit through Mahoutsukai .
Amagi
The story itself is generic so far but so are most Trigger series at the beginning so not sure. Maybe it will stay weak, but in general I prefer series that start with the weaker episodes and get better and better over time over the many series that use up all of their budget and trump cards in the first episode and drag on after that.
Amagi
I really love Trigger's esthetics and their characters. I am happy they're more often involved in non-trigger-only productions because I honestly think that most of the stuff I enjoyed about FranXX was heavily influenced by them.
SuperMario
@Nielo: Franxx's first ep was stellar for me. Storywise, it's lackluster (and I see the similar in tropes between this and Beatless) but production-wise it's excellent
SuperMario
I think I just keep watching it on a weekly basis. Still trippy as hell
SuperMario
Okay, I just watched second episode of Devilman Crybaby and it's still pretty good.
Nielo
By the way, what's up with Darling in the Franxx? I thought it's a very weak first episode.
Nielo
@Lenlo: Slice of life isn't my thing either, and I usually avoid series set in high school.
Nielo
@SuperMario: Takagi-san is cute, I'll admit that, but since I already read the manga it's not new to me. Sora Yori is good, but it's not particularly cute. I found Hakumei to Mikochi and Yuru Camp very boring. Haven't got the chance to watch Mitsuboshi Colors or Gakuen Babysisters but I don't think they could be more cute than Mii-kun.
SuperWooper
HOT TAKE: Genre is irrelevant. What matters is whether a show is good.
SuperMario
Don't knock off MY genre Lenlo. It's one of the reason I got into anime in the first place :)
Lenlo
Im not saying it doesn't do what it sets out to. I just don't think what it sets out to do is all that... great.
Lenlo
@Niello, Slice of Life was never my Genre in the first place :/ I typically avoid them. I have my own life to deal with and already graduated high school, why would I want to deal with a melodramatic anime highschool, is my line of thought.
SuperMario
@Niello: okay, let's see:Takagi-san (the titular character), Mitsuboshi Colors, Gakuen Babysisters (Toddlers!!), Hakumei to Milochi (tiny girls) and two more slightly more mature but equally cute: Sora Yori and Yuru Camp's casts
Nielllo
@SuperMario: I'm sure this is where our definition of "cute" parts way, but I'll ask anyway, what are those 5 shows?
SuperMario
@Niello: seems so because I can eaisily pick 5 more shows that are cuter, and better than Mummy this season ;)
Nielllo
...So I suppose I'm the only one who's kinda bored out by a lot of the slice of life shows that's trying to be cute this season and only perked up by the Mummy anime because it's actually do what it's meant to do and be legit cute.
Lenlo
I am interested in Koi, but still have concern about the relationship itself.

@Vonter, the mummy anime would be better as short vignettes together I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Koi amegari is surprisingly tasteful, subdued and pretty.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*to where
Kaiser-Eoghan
Try as I might, my love of kyoani tv anime has largely evaporated did where I no longer want to bother at this stage, I'll just wait and see. I'll just stay quiet on the franxx anime, theres little value in me trying to get through a trigger work at this point.
SuperMario
I get the exact same feeling with Takagi-san. It's pretty good on what it does but 20 minutes of the same thing for a whole season doesn't sound that promising
Vonter
The chibi mummy anime
Vonter
It's a shame it isn't a shorter 10 or 5 minute series, I think that format would make it shine more, since it does what it's trying to do.
Amagi
Speaking of it, I liked the second episode of Kokkuko or whatever the name is even more than the first one.
Amagi
I really have a problem with all these shows that rely on one single thing, joke, shenanigan or whatever. Be it something cute, some certain kind of interactiong or whatever. It doesn't matter how good it is it will bore me with episode 2.
Lenlo
Like, yeah, the mummy was cute. But the cute became rote/bland really quick. There has to be more than "cute" to be worth watching for more than a single episode to me.
Lenlo
@Niello, I was harsh because its not aimed at me. I wanted to drop it 5 minutes in, kept up for the post, then was thankful it was over. There wasnt anything overtly bad about it. Its just there was nothing good either.
AidanAK47
To be fair it's not as if we are lacking cute in this season.
In fact it's in danger of inflation.
SuperMario
@Niello: yes, the mummy is cute, the show is cute but beside that it's pretty mediocre. That show in particular is the only show that I have the damnest time to give it a potential rating.
Niello
It's not even down because of legal reasons, since the site pull down contents that are lincensed. It's down cause it's too much for the site owner to manage. Much of it also have to do with too many bots, which comes back to how a lot of other sites are relying on batoto.
Niello
@Masky: Not enough manga titles are getting translated. Batoto is the site scanlation groups basically rely on, and where other aggregation sites pull their content from. No batoto no obscure titles, a big blow to small scantation groups and one big manga/scanlator community down.
Niello
Why are you guys so harsh on the mummy show? It's so darn cute. Give it some credit. If a comedy show can be good because it does comedy well I don't see why a show ike Mummy can't be good if it can make people go "aww".
Masky
I don't really know why that is the case, maybe marketing budget and UI friendliness when done right? :P
Masky
Eh, wouldn't say it will kill manga industry. I mean, more and more official methods of reading manga online is starting to pop up and legit channels to pay to get access to manga can surprisingly enough harm free channels to get manga.
Masky
Anyway, I do find it funny how how the isekai character dies can be so meaningless that is joke in most of them
Niello
Batoto is going down, how this affect the manga reading is going to be interesting. Hope it's not slowly dying.
Masky
(at least that one, besides forgetting to introduce what the heck is gimmick besides generickness, acknowledged how most of otaku mcs shouldn't erally want to get transferred to fantasy world since they never get to see how their favourite mangas end :P )
Masky
Anyhoo, it gets annoying since its not just isekai being cliche, sometimes is just them being kind of badly written(or at least adapted to manga). Like, I found one new isekai today, but I have no idea what its gimmick is(from what I understood, its that "cute companion" that character gets is hideously op because mc didn't spefy cute girl when he asked god manager dude for cute companion)
Masky
Slime one is one of better from the more generic ones weirdly enough :P I mean I still wouldn't call it good, but at least MC character isn't god tier, just top tier and it has sort of village building simulation feel to it. Plus at least naming things giving monsters more powers is something funny regarding jrpg mechanics
Kaiser-Eoghan
Or alternatively the car was on a boat with the character or parents in it and the boat and car were hit by a falling plane lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its always "car accident" that sends the characters to another world or in harem cases "Lost parents due to car crash", for christs sake doesn't anyone die in out of control plane or speedboat crashes anymore, at least make it a motorbike....
Nayrael
Ah sorry, should probably not have touched the colors...
Nayrael
Trust me, Isekai is better when it doesn't try to be imaginative. When it tries to be original then... Isekai with a Smartphone... Isekai where the MC turns into a Slime... and my favorite: Isekai where the MC became a Hot Spring popular with sexy girls.
Masky
Assuming "new" things can happen under the sun
Masky
Anyhoo, I do wonder what the heck will be next "popular genre trope that will become so overused cliche that everyone groans whenever show uses it even if its actually good show"
Masky
Like, seriously you could do really interesting story variant on isekai with that if done right. Suddenly becoming characters you have roleplayed would be trippy as hell espicially if one of characters went really into detail with backstory while one of them is just "Bob the fighter, he likes fighting" and has to deal with what happens when you assume life of such a person
Masky
But I wouldn't honestly be surprised because of my anger issues related to amount of unimaginative isekai :P Though I guess trpg based one would be more imaginative in comparison
Masky
I'd assume not since I assume tabletop rpgs are much more niche than jrpgs in japan
Masky
So has anyone yet done isekai where guys getting transferred were playing trpg? :P
KTravlos
quite happy with most recent Attack of Titan manga chapter.
SuperMario
Alright, one more impression post to go before we really get on to new season
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yep, I just fixed it. Thank you
Kaiser-Eoghan
*than just the reviewers names
Kaiser-Eoghan
A slight problem with the coding there in the newest impression, showing code gobbledeegook rather than the reviewers names above their impressions.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm seeing it on 2nd of February.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Late screeners generally leak shortly after the uk release, so maybe early Febbruary it'll be online?
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yep, Phantom Thread. Could be Daniel Day Lewis's final performance. Is it available online already?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Did you know that Paul Thomas Anderso8n has a new film coming out? Also I found out there is a Polish semi-knockoff of purple rose of cairo.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Awesome, just got myself an invite to a secret private torrent site =)
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