Posted by psgels on 2 November 2013 with categories: Kill La Kill

The recent discussion on fanservice has gotten me thinking a bit, especially after I found this infographic about Kill la Kill. It’s true that the fanservice in Yozakura Quartet is just bad and distracts from what makes the show good or interesting, and the fanservice in Kill la Kill is much better because it objectifies everyone, and it has a reason behind it, and the argument you often hear is “it’s awesome so who cares?” – but still I see no reason to bring some more nuance in the discussion.

I mean, reason or not: Kill la Kill cashes in on the popular female empowerment trope. A woman kicks ass while dressed in skimpy clothing. Alone, this would be fine, but with how often this is done, it’s hinted that it’s almost a requirement that if you want to kick ass, you need to show some too. The good shows indeed build all sorts of symbolism around it, but does that make it right? Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends. Does having fanservice alone ruin a character? Nah. It’s just one part of a show. But the problem is that everyone reacts to it in a different way: for some people it weighs more heavily than others. And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.

But I do think that Kill la Kill is among Hiroyuki Imaishi’s best attempts at this kind of nuance. I mean, Gurren Lagann was basically a sausage fest (the most badass woman: Yoko, who both fits the badass female character to a T and pretty much got a short end of the character development stick), and Panty and Stocking WAS a series that was partially based on making fun of female stereotypes. This show finally feels balanced, and it’s really enjoyable because of it. This episode was no exception by the way.

The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men. Hajime no Ippo currently is a good example of taking that a bit far, with all of the current penis jokes and all. But also the series that go out of their way to make their characters bishies hereby alienate most of the male population just because they have nothing to watch it for. The truly good shoujo series have guys who are good looking, but who can appeal to everyone.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Great)

53 Responses

  1. martin says:

    nice study on imaishi making fun of stereotypes. 2 more shows are worth mentioning, re:cutie honey ep 1 and magical shopping arcade abenobashi ep 3 + 12. he directed these single episodes and i got the sense he was making fun of his own subject matter by simply taking it over the top. he took the ecchi genre over the top in cutie honey and in abenobashi it was the lolicon fetishes that are so prevalent in anime/japan.

    maybe i could be wrong and say imaishi is just one really immature and insensitive director. even still he is a director better than most at being immature and insensitive.

    this episode was hella enjoyable but it did have a moment that made me uncomfortable. when that dude kicked matoi in the gut and struck her hard in the head even after she was powerless and on the ground is some really sensitive imagery.

  2. AidanAK47 says:

    I always thought of the skimpy outfits female superheroes wear were a kind of tactic. When you think about it the majority of there opponents will be men. And any man will hesitate to attack a half naked women. That hesitation was a great advantage.
    The fanservice in Kill la kill does feel like it has a point. Plus it funny that there’s not just male fanservice but female fanservice. I mean how many guys have been stripped in this show? That said I think the female empowerment image you link is looking a bit too deeply into it.

  3. TheUltimateReaper says:

    Jesus Christ that link. People seriously go through lengths to justify their own idiotic conceptions on sexuality, not to mention just how much the issue is driven about women. Kill la Kill is fucking awesome, and other than a few metaphors or whatever about clothes, and casting off shame, and nudism and whatever I don’t see any reason to really over analyze like I’ve seen people do.

    “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.” It might a be bread and butter way of looking at things but this is what I gather as any messages, and I like it, I think it’s great, I think that’s positive, but people still can’t get over their fanservice gripe.

    Some service is bad, some good, and some I don’t think really matters. I like Kill la Kill through and through, I like the Kamui, I like the crazy powers, I like the outfits, and I like the teacher who is always trying to take off his shirt.

    • jonas says:

      Because cartoons are for kids, and people need some justification to keep watching them. The empowerment thing isn´t even subtext.

      • TheUltimateReaper says:

        >Calling anime a cartoon
        >for kids
        >Brojito a lemon and tomato are both fruits but I wouldn’t put a tomato in a fruit cake.
        >Multiple target demographics in the industry, youngins are just more popular

        People are just stupid.

      • AidanAK47 says:

        “Because cartoons are for kids..”

        Couldn’t even finish a sentence without failing miserably. Even taking out the fact that you call a anime a cartoon there’s this complete misconception of cartoons being just for kids. Go ahead and watch the spawn animated series and try telling me that again.

      • jonas says:

        “people […] often play a card that allows them to pretend that their liking such a show does not reflect on their tastes at all.

        […]It’s not as if that we are truly expected to only watch and enjoy the consensus masterpieces. It’s just that we often behave as if we are expected to, and that we impose this on others”.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Jonas, listen here. That image was not trying to justify a bad anime. It was trying to justify the fanservice in an anime. You are just way off base. There’s plenty more in this that they could attempt to justify with artistic merit but they tried to justify the fanservice because that’s what people are raging about and making them lump Kill la kill in the same pile of generic fanservice anime as queens blade or to love-ru. Which is wrong. The thing is that regardless of whether fanservice has a point or not, it’s still fanservice. But that does not make this a fanservice show because fanservice is not the main point of the show. It’s not out of some silly guilt.

          On that note.
          “90% of anime and manga is crud (Sturgeon’s Revelation); or, 80% of the good stuff one gets out anime and manga comes from 20% of the examples (Pareto’s Principle, ‘The Law of the Vital Few’); take your pick. Either way, many shows people like will fall under the ‘not excellent’ spectrum of quality.”

          That applies to every medium of entertainment. And I do mean every medium. Music, video games, film…90% of it is crap. It’s not something specific to anime and manga.
          And in many cases the person who likes a bad show genuinely believes it to be good. Because the enjoyment of the show tends to faze out the flaws in their eyes. You see that happen with good anime too. Any time someone talks about their favorite anime they tend to speak only of the positives of it and many times fail to say anything negative about it. No matter how good an anime is there’s always flaws, people just prefer not to see that.

          So to sum it up, your comment is still pretty stupid.

          • jonas says:

            Fanservice: Long, full shots of robots in mecha shows, sexual elements, long fight scenes, and violence can all be considered fan service as they are specifically aimed at pleasing the fans of any given show.

            Kill la Kill can´t be compared to Queen´s Blade, Freezing, or the wrestling show, because Kill la Kill is not boring as hell.

            I´m not denying my comment was stupid, but the fact that you can only understand Ghostlightning´s essay on a superficial level tells me we are on the same boat (hint:”I posit however, that guilt is a feeling from moral wrongness”).

          • AidanAK47 says:

            And anything can be considered anime regardless of whether it’s made in japan or not. Lets not get into semantics here. It tends to make things lose meaning.

            Just to make sure I reread it before posting this and I am sure I understood it fine. Basically he’s talking about how in an effort to avoid judgement or attack people who like an anime which is widely regarded by mass opinion as poor or terrible will tend to take a stance of claiming it has merit artistically or by labeling it as their guilty pleasure instead of simply admitting that they like a bad show. Not really rocket science.
            However I counter by saying that in many cases people actually truly believe a show is good and are not attempting to cover up a bad show because they like it. Because to them they don’t see these flaws other people speak of.

        • jonas says:

          Close, ghostlightning is talking about “ressentiment”, that is why he starts with this:

          “Guilt, yes guilt. Nobody wants to feel it. It implies one did something wrong, and is inferior to those who do otherwise.In anime and manga however (not to imply that it doesn’t occur elsewhere), taste is part of a social dominance game that’s played for high stakes: self-esteem in the internet.

          Sure it sounds silly, and it is. But people do operate under the paradigm of taste. They accuse each other of having bad taste, and praise creative works for being ‘tasteful,’ as if the benchmark or touchstone for such can be taken for granted”.

          Now compare with this: “According to Kierkegaard ressentiment occurs in a “reflective, passionless age”, in which the populace stifles creativity and passion in passionate individuals. Kierkegaard argues that individuals who do not conform to the masses are made scapegoats and objects of ridicule by the masses, in order to maintain status quo and to instill into the masses their own sense of superiority”.

          You can read more about it here: www2.fiu.edu/~filosof/Site/Current_Issue_files/1 Eva Melnikova.pdf

          • AidanAK47 says:

            Sigh…I hate it when people talk like this. It means I have to read the damn thing three times just to make sure that I got it. So lets break it down.

            Basically people tend to use a persons taste to judge them as a means of pumping up their own superiority complex and placing another individual lower than them.
            To which I say, well duh. That’s obvious.
            This in turn stifles creativity because in order to be good, works are forced to conform to popular opinion. An those who do not conform with popular opinion are ostracized.
            Which is a pretty good point. In attempts to make movies gain more money there are test screening which a random group of people could change the entire film. One particular example is with I am legend which was supposed to have a more depressing ending but was changed because the test audience wanted something more actiony.

            And if this isn’t what you are getting at then try to summarize it into a sentence. Because if your goal is to get the point across then the most effective way is to explain it a clearly and concisely as possible. Talking like this is just a pain in the ass for someone reading it and doesn’t show intelligence.
            Actually is this an attempt to try and pump your own superiority by attempting to prove that you are more intelligent than me? If so, I am afraid you only proved yourself a sore loser.

          • jonas says:

            Sorry, I thought you were interested in this kind of things, my bad.

          • AidanAK47 says:

            I don’t mind talking philosophy but the comments aren’t really the best place for it.
            This is an anime site mate, if you want to talk about philosophy try the shoutbox up there.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Well, honestly, I like those kind of things too, but I don’t think the infographic guys are wrong – in fact, I had reached the same exact conclusions myself, independently, on a simple moment of fridge logic.
      If you think about it, it makes sense. For us, each episode is just 20 minutes of fun, the whole series will amount to less than 12 hours total. For the creators, these are days, weeks, maybe months worth of work. I hardly see these smart writers (who have proven being smart and loving to have fun with what they do) just going for “oh, look, there’s going to be explosions and naked chicks fighting, this is going to be SO AWESOME”. The tongue-in-cheek sexual symbolism was present throughout Gurren Lagann, with its whole spiral thing; it didn’t necessarily mean something DEEP, but it was there as a guideline. It’s easier to write if you have a loose theme, because being forced to adhere to that will give you interesting associative ideas. I can totally see the thought process behind male sexuality -> spiral -> reproduction / DNA / evolution -> galaxies etc. That’s what led to Gurren Lagann. Panty and Stocking was also ripe with jabs at moe culture and fanservice – the tease being that the most ‘available’ girl, Panty, was also the absolute opposite of what anime usually considers attractive, that is a shy, modest girl who does not show any sexual desire. Sex is always present in Imaishi’s works, if only to make fun of those prudish anime who will hypocritically pretend girls don’t have sexual instincts and that the most daring thing a boy and his girlfriend with do in high school is a hand hold and a kiss but still sneak in panty shots and jiggling boobs at every moment. I don’t think it’s a true “empowerment” statement, I think he’s just trolling the average (especially Japanese) viewer.

    • Mazz says:

      “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.”

      This. I agree this is the message of the show, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn’t change the fact that the fanservice annoys me, but I can accept it as long as the rest of the show is good. So far, I’m digging it.

  4. Lazy says:

    That’s fine and all, but what about the episode?

  5. unentschieden says:

    Do note that we didn´t see who took out the clubs. They ended up crucified with brooms and stuffed into the trash… who was on cleaning duty?

  6. ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

    @psgels I feel that the comments section of your last Yozakura Quartet review, and the shoutbox, influenced the direction of this Kill la Kill episode review. :D

  7. Malkuth says:

    Those revealing outfits and visual pronunciation of the differences between male and female physiology (erroneously labelled as fanservice) is actually part of the plot and is sad that viewers need bullet-point presentations to understand it. Not only in Kill La Kill but in Yozakura Quarter too as well as the Monogatari Series and so on. Unfortunately, none has made similar graphics for those though. It is very tiring to read complaint after complaint about pantyshots and gainaxing boobs, but nothing about unrealistic muscle-bound macho male MCs, shotas, and other stereotypes that sexually objectify guys through equally (if not more) reavealing animation. If nothing else this train of thought is the problem, since it diverts attention from both the anime and social implications. The only thing it achieves is to treat lightly the subject and this way quenching the guilt of pretentious feminists.

    • psgels psgels says:

      “The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men.”

      ^ I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside.

      • Aegd says:

        I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows.

        I don’t think kill la kill is an example of that. On the contrary, kill la kill is a good example on how to use fanservice in a good way.

        High School of the Dead is a good example on how they ruined a otherwise decent shows with stupid fanservice that made no sense in the context.

        In kill la kill it’s basically the other way around. The fanservice makes sense most of the times and fit the setting and presentation of the story.

        There are also shows that are made with the pretense of having a story, but it only being a hollow shell to present adult situations. Shows like Queens Blade, that’s basically a watered down pornographic anime.

      • Malkuth says:

        >> I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside. <> I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows. <<

        This is a common over-generalization based on lexical revisionism. Fanservice, like pron are used wrongly by most viewers limited to sexual innuendo related or not plot and character development. First of all it is not limited to sexual innuendo, and second it must always be unrelated to the story. With its original definition you are absolutely right, it degrades an anime by targeting a specific sales group. The problem is that when broadening the term viewers and most importantly reviewers build up a negative bias, and focus their thoughts on the mislabeled fanservice ignoring what they have actually watched.

    • ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

      This comment made me chuckle because I know I’m one of the people who has complained to you vociferously about the pantyshots in YQ (on ASuki). Oh how interconnected is the anime blogosphere.

      But yeah, sorry for tiring you out, Malkuth. :3

      • Malkuth says:

        Don’t worry, at least you can discuss your opinion. Most of the time in AS/MAL/AniDB (but more often bloggers) just complaint about female outfits and/or mannerism, because they sexually objectify them, totally missing what is going on.

  8. Spike says:

    People sometimes get objectification and celebration mixed up because they are focusing on the medium (anime) and not the work itself. Gurren Lagaan’s Kamina was a celebration of GAR and Matoi is an attempt at the polar opposite.

    It’s also a whole lot different from
    Female Character A: How’s your day going?
    Female Character B: It’s going pretty well *insert pantry shot* What’s for lunch?
    Female Character A: *insert sexy pose* Just eating some ramen
    Female Character C: *running into frame with Boobs bouncing* (extra detail given to motion) Hiiiiiiii Guuuuuuiiseeeee!
    Female Character A: *while groping Female Character C* OH YOU’VE GOTTEN BIGGER!!!
    ETC ETC ETC

    Wow I just wrote an episode that would sell 8k Blurays easily.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      You forgot about the girl walking in eating banana/lolipop suggestively.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Add in a cute mascot character, an incompetent bland male lead, and put the girls into a school club that does nothing of what’s supposed to do, and you got a best seller right there, sir.

  9. Juno says:

    lol What happened to the episode review? XD

    On the topic in general, I find this political/social cartoon somewhat relevant: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6e259VXFI1rt8sgdo1_500.jpg

    I think here, it’s a combination of things many guys like to see on girls, and a possible concept of liberating one’s self from social constraints. Especially in Japan, where showing skin is STILL considered bad by social standards. It’s still “fanservice,” but it’s done in a way that supposedly makes it okay to a lot of the audience. That said, it was obviously targeted far more toward the male demographic, no matter who ends up liking it in the end. I definitely see a lot more females enjoying it on this side of the Pacific than in Japan, since female sexualization is starting to be embraced by a lot of females here, who take it with a sense of pride, rather than as an insult.

    On a personal level, though, I still can’t help rolling my eyes. The fanservice is a little too over the top, even if it’s tongue-in-cheek. I still enjoy the show immensely, including the animation and transformation scenes and whatever. But still, this kind of fanservice is always a slight turn-off to me, so to each their own. =P

  10. Jalapeno Bagel says:

    “And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.”

    As long as we’re off-topic from the show, I’ll just say my two cents on this. It’s hard to create any story (let alone a good one) that caters to everyone without knowing what everyone wants. That kind of requires you to care about the genre label and conventions (of course, if it’s by complete coincidence, then you’re a happy prodigy). I don’t know if you’ll agree, but I argue that the best shows are the ones that do what they think is best for the audience they’re aiming for. Like you said, everyone reacts differently to fanservice, but it’s not just limited to that. If you have little hope of satisfying everyone, then might as well focus on satisfying who you want to satisfy.

    I think critical discussion of anime like this frequently goes off on the wrong things: aka, it’s akin to expecting a professional basketball player to have better soccer skills because it’s more well-rounded.

  11. Saitoq says:

    “Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.”
    I agree with this. Although I think the reason for why they do this is because that’s how it often works in the real world. If a female wants to be a successful actress for example, in most cases she has to show off quite a lot of cleavage to get there, regardless of how good she is. It’s commentary on what girls very often have to do to survive.
    So what a lot of women do is embracing it, they take charge of their own sex appeal and does it for themselves, if someone enjoys the view, good for them, but overall they do it for themselves. In this show that would be Satsuki’s whole attitude about wearing the kamui.
    I hope as the show goes on Ryuko will become good enough to kick ass even without the kamui, but for now it’s necessary for her to wear it if she wants to even stand a chance.

  12. mulligan says:

    Fanservice discussion aside, I thought this was the best looking episode so far of the five. It’s a relief for me eyeballs not to have manic action or an overcrowded shot composition every ep. Unapologetic craziness is what this series is good at, but great colour design, shot composition and sequence storyboarding can’t hurt.

    It’s early days but I’ve got a feeling that Trigger is almost treating this series almost like an “episodic showreel” of sorts, with each episode showing off a different trick every time. Not a bad way to kick things off for a new studio doing their own original content.

  13. Hogart says:

    I think that there are enough hints that the fanservice isn’t just for cheap thrills and comedy (though they clearly want to have their cake and eat it too). Whether they capitalize on any of the themes they’re toying with remains to be seen, but at least so far the fanservice isn’t much worse for wear than it was in a show like Fujiko Mine.

    I think people are a bit too sensitive about these things anyway. I mean I despise fanservice for fanservice’s sake. It’s a bit insulting unless the entire point of the show is titillation. But I feel that allowing shows to experiment with these kinds of uncomfortable sexual themes is the only way we’ll get over ourselves as a race.

    In short, at least they’re getting us to talk about these things a bit more seriously, and all we’re still watching their dumb hot-blooded highschool anime.

  14. Autumn Season 2013 Preview says:

    I thought 5.5/8 means excellent

  15. kero says:

    Speaking of fanservice, were there any guys who were able to see past the fanservice to watch Free?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, I watched Free. My wife gave up on it, but I found the time to watch the last few eps after that.

      • kero says:

        What did you think of the story, and of the fan service? Do you think it would put people off watching an anime even if it was a good one?

        • Hogart says:

          It was a pretty basic and average club anime, really. Nothing special aside from the fanservice and a bit of the usual KyoAni animation budget.

          The only thing other than the novelty of the fanservice that made it worth the watch was some of the attention to detail for the swimming club aspects. But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.

          The fanservice wasn’t so much a problem as it was frankly the only real draw the anime had going for it, because KyoAni wasn’t that serious about the premise otherwise. I give it a pass because it provides me with a handy reality check for boys who try to tell me girls shouldn’t mind the fanservice in their anime.

          • kero says:

            “But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.”

            ???

            .

        • Hogart says:

          http://gargarstegosaurus.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/i-suppose-this-is-a-review-of-free/

          They were on a swimming club, so they were really into that aspect of Free. I was on a swim team when I was a kid, but that was probably too early in my life for me to really go on a nostalgia binge with Free.

          • kero says:

            ahhh. I get that.

            well sort of. I got into (watching) basketball because of slam dunk, and now I’m pretty much only watching Kuroko no Basuke, because there’s basketball in it.

  16. Jo says:

    I’m gonna say that I am enjoying this show, it’s got great energy and direction and its pretty creative as well, but can I just say something?

    I think you guys are viewing the way the issues surrounding the fanservice in show in a way thats too simplistic. For starters, the female fanservice and male fanservice is not even on the same level because not only does male fanservice happen less, they’re always shown as taking their clothes/ posing for the audience of their OWN accord, while for the girls in Ryuko’s case she constantly looks uncomfortable and unhappy in Senketsu, not to mention the visible ogling from all sides which is absent when male fanservice happens AND the slightly rapey undertones from earlier eps regarding Senketsu. Even when she stops feeling that way it is more about acceptance for Satsuki and Ryuko than anything else, that they HAVE to wear the things they might not want to to achieve what they need to, and damn everyone else who thinks lowly of them for that.

    While this is more than most anime would do regarding fanservice in their own show, does no one feel that this is also inadequate? Can an issue like that which plagues societal attitudes towards young girls today and contributes to victim blaming for things like rape really be explained away by such a simple thing?

    I know this show is not trying to blow our minds with any philosophical debate regarding sexism/feminism or whatevs, but is it wrong to want just some more sensitivity if they’re going to breach the topic anyways?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, it might be a bit to ask, it all depends on what their creative goals are and where they decide to go with the series. I think we’ll need to wait at least a few more episodes before we know for sure, because they may have chosen a Gurren Lagann sense of style because they’re aiming for a Gurren Lagann type of twist. Who knows?

      Besides, Studio Trigger is hardly well-established. It’s not like they could just randomly afford to take all the risks in the world, especially if you consider how safe and stale most of the anime the major studios create are. Just being different and taking a risk is impressive enough if they pull it off, so I’d rather be supportive even if they don’t change the world and end up making another, inferior Gurren Lagann.

  17. DmonHiro says:

    I am calling it now:
    1. Mako’s antics are all fake.
    2. She’s either going to betray, or she’s completely broken inside.

  18. RABUJOI says:

    1. Great find on the infographic; it’s a very elegant, eloquent exegesis of Kill la KIll so far.

    2. Like all art, for me the best anime are the ones I and others have the most to say about. This means even an unspeakable horrible anime that spurs elevated conversation (though a real life example escapes me) is “better” than a boring anime about which nothing need be said or drawn from it. Whatever its controversies, KLK is evoking discussion with levels of nuance, which is good.

    3. It’s not just that the fanservie in YQ is bad and a waste of time, it’s that there’s no reason for it to exist beyond titilating a portion of the audience, which may well be the majority, but is still unnecessary. You can say lots about the fanservice in KLK, but you can’t say much of anything about Nanami Ao flashing her shimapan or Nurse Juri stripping off her uniform to reveal a bikini.

    4. YQ itself knows that its fanservice is useless, to the point where it’s including it for “compliance purposes”, or possibly even as tongue-in-cheek. The fanservice is a resolute afterthought, inserted in places where its absense wouldn’t necessarily be missed. Fanservice is made to be crucial to the themes of KLK, but it’s simply tacked-on and irrelevant to the themes of YQ.

    5. It’s telling that the most prominent female character – Hime – shows the least amount of skin; in fact, she’s downright covered up most of the time. Unlike the women in KLK, her gender and sexuality play little or no role in her development as a character. Rather, she has had to work hard since rising to the mayorship as a young child to gain the trust, respect, and love of the townsfolk, most of whom are her elders.

  19. Sword Testing Cliff says:

    I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.

    “Balsa” “Torogai” “Faye” “that chick from the 12 kingdoms(Yoko I think). . .actually a vast majority o fthe women from that show” “Probably ALL the female characters from LOGH” “main character from Psycho pass”
    And now that I think more about it, actually a lot of the women from Moribito were written extreemly well. I think that frankly that show should be common viewing for new writers on how to portray women.

    99.999999% of writers don’t know how to write women, period. It’s not their fault either. How women are as people, is VERY different than how many people in the “female empowerment” demographic Want to see women in media. Writers, studios, directors, company chairs know this. Which is why most writters couldn’t be bothered to actually acurately portray female characters in media (yes this happens in western tv a lot too)

    Pretty much the prerequisite for “female character” = man with tits & no penis, and looks pleasing to the male demographic to get more sales”

    Because that’s pretty much how they act/portrayed.

    There are a few execptions and all the ones I can think of off the top of my head that I’ve seen.

    Pretty much nowdays, how much money you make (especially as an anime) is pretty dependant on how sexual/female powery(there’s a HUGE Cuckholdery demographic among the male population of anime watchers)
    the main female characters are, OR how “moe” they are (O HAI THAR K-ON. . .and your 238423945523 clones)

    That’s just the way it is now and the way its gonna be for a while.

    THIS show gets away with that because everything is just way over the top, that its pretty much making fun of all of that. (while cashing in at the same time.)When you go over the top, you pretty much become a parody and all that “Sexism” seriousness doesn’t apply. Personalyl I think people are thinking way too much about it, Although on the other hand the show is pointing out how rediculous the industry is with writers pretty much being bad at writing women/overly pandering to different demogrpahics, rather than just making something. . .GOOD (Hello breaking bad, game of thrones.)

  20. Faruk says:

    Err you didnt review the episode.

  21. Taiga says:

    So.. what was the episode about?

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You an always watch the old 160 episode ova of Legend of Galactic Heroes. Differences to date are minor
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Follow up films coming though.
Anonymous2142275
Galactic Heroes, is starting to grow on me, is a shame, that's only 12 episodes so much potential being wasted. What happened to those times when long animes, could have at least 50 episodes ( Gundam Seed, Code Geass) and still be viable. feeling hopeless
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: A female director you could also look into is Moufida Tlatli , especially silences of the palace.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: On golden kamuy, from reading on in the manga, there will be a big reveal regarding Asirpa soon. Also I feel the prisoner guys are becoming monster of the week.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm glad to be reviewing stuff again on letterboxd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: ....I...actually momentarily forgot about the PM system.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Watch Bombshell, secrets of a hollywood star or calling hedy lamarr, Bombshell is a recent documentary about Lamarr.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Von Triers new film looks darkly funny though to a degree and I love the self-indulgent first per3son narration.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I have no idea how Stellan Skarsgard (who works alot with Von trier) produced Alexander Skarsgard, the latter is far too attractive to come from that. I feel the same about Asia Argento, I refuse to believe Dario could have produced such a fine creature.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'm rarely about morals or understanding as an importance when it comes to film, I care most about how it hits me on a visceral/emotional level, how daring it is in its imagination, visuals, madness , creativity.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: thanks, received it. God, Von Triers new film is entirely something else. Full-on provocation. And I already think his Nymphomaniac was too much
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Also I'm dying to see Von Trier and Chang-dongs new films, especially the priors.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I sent you a private message.
Lenlo
That said, the key drama scenes were still great. Okabe's VA continues to make me happy. Im just not sure how much of this is nostalgia.
Lenlo
Steins;Gate is at its best in moments of character drama and character interaction. All of its value lies in its characters. Any action, with this muted style, is going to come off stiff and dull. A con of the art-style decision.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I'm glad you said that, because I felt visually it looked stiff this week and that brief scene in the beginning wasn't much to look at. But Okabes meeting with Baldyguy-san and the cliffhanger and after credits bit were good scenes.
Lenlo
So yeah, this was probably the weakest week of Steins;Gate so far. Its pretty clear its not an action series and that its style doesnt suit itself well to combat scenes
SuperMario
... watching and reading many shounen titles (Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest, Bleach and the likes), shounen isn't my cup of tea at all
SuperMario
While I grow up
Lenlo
@Anon, I love Shounen. BnHA is one of my favorites every season its on. Doesnt mean I like Black Clover though
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thank you for that anon, when I watched the episode earlier I wasn't aware there was a post credits scene.
Anonymous2141254
oh well, we still are early on in S;G 0 too. Plus, there seems to be a huge development at the end of the episode
Anonymous2141254
idk, i can't help but feel that besides the amadeus plotline, everything else feels "fillery"
Anonymous2141254
I must say though that I'm still waiting for it to get good, idk maybe my expectations are too high because the original was great after the first few episodes
Anonymous2141254
Don't forget to watch end credits fo Steins Gate 0
KTravlos
I like some shonen. I just think that they are popular enough as not to be worth reviewing ihmo.
Vonter
@Anon2140150 - I do. Though Shounen do have the issue of being derivative in certain aspects like power scales and several doing the FMA Brotherhood climax (of what I've watched). Also they're made to be endless. It can be intimidating jumping to one that has several seasons.
Anonymous2140150
Does everyone here don't like shonen anime?
Amagi
Really, if there is one piece of information (aside from otome maybe) that makes me ignore a series forever it's a LN about a LN author or illustrator. The selfinert wish fulfillment couldn't be more obvious.
Amagi
Another LN greenlit for an anime production and the synopsis starts with "* is a light novel illustrator and..".
Amagi
@KTravlos: I don't know why modern anime hate curly- and/or wild hair so much. The old hair style gave Reinhard a more royal look, whereas he looks like a normal highschool boy now. Not that I am complaining about the anime as a whole. Also, I like some of the new designs.
KTravlos
and a part of me things it is indeed the hair. It comes to low, giving Reinhard a slovenly, lazy feel. When Yang feels more energetic you know there was a mistake.
KTravlos
and yes, this Reinhard fares poorly in comparison to the OVA one. He is dull. I need more Yang :p
KTravlos
ai vay vay. The Castrop Rebellion remains waste of time. And this time it was worse. The older depiction was tacky but at least it showed Kircheis ability in a logical manner. This time I had no idea what the hell happened. It felt cheap.

The rest of the episode was ok. Not completely sold on all the renditions of imp. admirals though I still love the uniforms.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*those
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hearing these , I find myself much more tolerant of anime voice acting even if the dub might only be okay.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Its actually less of a sync issue, as I'm talking about 60s dubs , alot of people think the voices in old anime English dubs from the 90s are dated, but the old sixties kungfu and western dubs are shocking, far worse.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't mind sometimes satirical dubbing like on tiger lily , dialectics break bricks and kung pow however.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And those can be difficult to acquire sometimes in Italian or Chinese.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Live action films, this is especially annoying sometimes because I love Spaghetti westerns and Chinese martial arts films and old Italian cop thrillers.
Anonymous2137430
@Kaiser-Eoghan Are you referring to foreign animated films of foreign live action films because dubbing live action is a different beast as I'm sure you're aware. The idiosyncratic nature of watching moves and facial expressions not properly match voices really pulls the viewer out of the experience
SuperWooper
LoGH is airing a special next week because of scheduling delays, so that's one less thing to do.
AidanAK47
Well to those whom it might concern, expect my posts to be later than usual this week. Work is hell at the moment.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have to say, this is probably a bit hypocritical, but while I enjoy dubs of anime I really really can't stand dubs of foreign films.
Lenlo
Simo Hayha would make a pretty crazy Archer.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine a fate strange fake adaptation will materialize eventually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But everyone seems to want that Finnish sniper as a Fate servant .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Still no Mao, still mad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I have lost track of the historical characters in the fate lineup.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, to expand on that point the following historical figures are now female: Nero Claudius, Leonardo da Vinci, Frankenstein's Monster, Xuanzang, Jing Ke, Quetzalcoatl, Minamoto no Yoshitsune, Miyamoto Musashi, Okita Souji and many more to come.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I find it's an enjoyable watch though flawed. If you can get past some odd fanservice around the first ten episodes then I say it's worth watching.
Anonymous2133468
So i was thinking if i start watching, darling in the franxx, is worth it? or is just another 6/10 anime?
Lenlo
God damnit. Why Nasu. Just why.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, that ain't even Lewd.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In all seriousness its ridiculous, the Japanese will make a cute/moe girl out of anything.
AidanAK47
....Should I also mention that Francis Drake is a big boobed pirate queen?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Posting lewd images on a respectable chatbox.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, But none of these characters are in the anime adaptions. Well besides Jack and Saber.
Lenlo
Aidan, all this conversation did was prove that my decision to only ever watch the Ufotable adaptions was the correct decision.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, you can blame Extella for the Attlia the Hun thing. I wasn't too fond of it myself. Also should mention Attila is female as well.
https://pm1.narvii.com/6414/528599445b739909c02993cfdbfc9f277d088cf2_hq.jpg
AidanAK47
Also Masky I will be the first to admit to the ridiculous aspects of the Fate Franchise but do take note that you are commenting on something you know literally nothing about. Which is the very definition of ignorance and is quite annoying. Fate/Zero nails the themes it's going for. So go watch Fate/Zero, come back and apologize.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Give it time. Genghis is getting in there eventually with Grand Order. We just had Anastasia and Salieri introduced after all. And it's not as if this story introduces Servants willy nilly, they need actual story purpose. Genghis Khan wouldn't have fit the Narrative that Fate/Zero was going for.
Lenlo
Wait Attila is an Alien and Edison is a Lion? God damnit Fate. Why are you doing this to me. I was already annoyed at your treatment of Musashi
Masky
(aliens existing in the show is good example of that missing on themes part xP)
Masky
*most successful conqueror
Masky
Honestly was just amused most conqueror of all time not being featured in the show :D But wait, whats this about aliens?
AidanAK47
Anyway the important thing to take into account is that in the Fate universe, King Arthur is a woman, Attila the Hun is an Alien, Thomas Edison is a lion and Jack the Ripper is a little girl in a dominatrix outfit. Any questions?
AidanAK47
And while you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes, it does leave you ignorant of how that show handles those ideas and themes.
AidanAK47
As for the Historical Alexander, he wasn't given the title of King of Couquerors. Fate/Zeros interpretation of him was. As generally accurate Fates interpretation of Servents history can be, they can make changes to suit the narrative.
AidanAK47
In that Regard Alexander was doing the conquest thing before Ghengus did. Ghengus likely has some other title. Hell he may only have the title because public consciousness was is more familiar with Alexander than Ghengus.
AidanAK47
Yeah, looking it up seems the King Title lost quite a lot of meaning in the Nasuverse. Though the King Title is rather flimsy. I mean Arthur is the King of Knights cause of the Knights of the round table. Gil is king of heroes because his tale was the first Heroic myth.
Lenlo
I think Alexander was just the first one they thought of, and they couldnt retroactively give it to someone else.

That said, Broskander deserves it <3
Masky
(And no, you don't need to watch something to be given divine right to comment on ideas or themes of it.)
Masky
(just to note in case I need to note, I do tend to do at least cursory research when I make comments on stuff I don't watch)
Masky
That first part is semantics as Fate gives title "King" to historical figures who weren't kings already :D Also, you can make that argument about historical Alexander the Great? Since that seriously sounds like kind of weak reason.
AidanAK47
Also sees Rider as deserving of title of "King of Conquerors" because that which he strives to conquer most is not lands or material wealth, but the hearts of people, the toughest conquest that can be undertaken by anyone.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Ghengis Khan wasn't a king. He was a Khan.
Lenlo
Ghengis is always a Rider in my mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But in all seriousness, Ghengis would be an appropriate beserker servant.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Masky: I know, it feels so wrong I'm still mad I can't summon Karl Marx or Stalin.
Masky
So wait, Fate series is about historical figures with super powers, but "King of Conquerors" title isn't given to Ghengis Khan? :D Seriously? Thats just so wrong
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't feel any point in finishing it, it feels like something that I'd just randomly drop , not because its a bad show, but because I got my fill of it.
AidanAK47
I am actually going to drop blogging it.
AidanAK47
@Sash, indeed. I have been watching it but not blogging it for the last few episodes because it just hasn't givne me anything to say. I don't think it's a bad show but I have pointed out the flaws and strengths of it already so there is truly nothing more to say on it.
Sash
I think wotakoi is starting to feel repetitive..
Kaiser-Eoghan
You are now aware Shana and Batman Ninja Harelequinn are both voiced by Rie kugimiya.
Lenlo
I did. It was... It was a thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Did you end up watching Batman ninja by the way?
Lenlo
Music is great, yeah. When the music is on point, everything goes up. Everytime the sync the fight/punches to the music I just get hyped. Like the rotating shot with Aragaki or the first fight in episode 1.
Lenlo
Ill do my best to be clearer in the future on that front. Yeah, I dont mind twists like this. Makes the inevitable Mikio fight, narratively, even better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel the music does alot of the lifting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, so that was it.
Lenlo
Sorry if I never made that clear.
Lenlo
I would rather have fewer, amazing, fights than a lot of low-quality fights. This is a one cour show, the more meaning/impact they can give each fight the better.

Like Aragaki, narratively, was great. Loved it. Its just in animation/choreography that it falls flat.
Lenlo
Im disappointed with the animation of the fights. Narratively, I think they are quite good.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*disappointed with the fights in past episodes
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Pretty much what I said I thought of the episode. Although I was surprised how took the episodes ending, I expected you to see it as a slap in the face after being disappointed with the fights.
Lenlo
Also, @Kaiser, I thought Megalo Box did something unique this episode. I wasn't expecting Joe to *not* fight. And the Mikio/Yukiko proxy war is an interesting character motivation. Im betting Yukiko will get Joe a full citizenship, effectively getting her on his side.
Lenlo
I wish I was physically capable of watching Megalo Box without thinking of Hajime no Ippo. I really do. But everytime I watch it, it makes me want to watch Ippo again to.
Anonymous2120908
I watched some more of the Chimera family chinese anime. (Wasn't aware it was monthly released). And geez, I like the concept, the background art is very pretty and contrasts with settings that have become tired in other anime. Yet sadly the animation and script are WEAK. I haven't grasped the quality of what's expected of these types of production but I want to believe, they're trying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not much in the way of action in megalobox this week, but I did like the focus on Yukkiko getting a small character moment and then the big moment at episodes end .
AidanAK47
@Anon, That's some lazy ass trolling buddy. Should have stopped before the hashtags.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm even sort of looking forward to supposedly less respectable stuff like Goblin slayer and happy sugar life.
Vonter
Also E3 is almost here. And I can't wait. I think Nintendo will have a good show considering they're revealing the new Smash with a tournament. There's rumors of the new game by Retro Studios (Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong) and maybe they'll reveal something about how Pokemon will be on the Switch.
Vonter
Also there's always the chance of something new being discovered. Not everything needs expectations behind. Sometimes great things come out of nowhere.
Kaiser-Eoghan
So yes, there are some at least decent shows coming out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Muh Baki, Muh Bananna fish, muh made in abyss season 2, muh Vinland.
Anonymous2119906
The rest of this year looks like shit for anime and 2019 doesn't look great either #fuckmoe #makeanimegreatagain
Anonymous2119214
@Kaiser yeah it happened in half the amount of eps this time around for steins gate 0; which i expected considering there's a lot of ground to cover
Anonymous2119106
@Supermario Something like Fate or the LOTR films are a different case. I get where you're coming from about your preference, but I'm arguing that if a large story is going to be split into 3 films, it helps that the 3 films feel cleanly cut. Infinity war, even though we know there's a second part to the story, feels like it has that cohesive narrative structure with a beginning, middle, and end
Anonymous2119106
@Super Mario yea but the marvel movies are a different situation so i don't think the comparison is as appropriate. Marvel movies are "episodic" in nature rather than a continuous narrative. The films are largely isolated stories that are happening in a similar universe that only happen to "congeal" narratively because of a few overarching details shared between films.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: I remember when the original series suddenly shifted and got going and it was a really depressing episode.
Lenlo
Oh baby. The storm has finally come in Steins;Gate. Let the true suffering commence
SuperMario
@anon2118276: that's why I don't like LoTR trilogy. It's still a whole body chopped up in 3 parts, despite how clean the cut is. Whereas for me it works better if it was like a branch in a tree. The Marvel movies (despite my disinterest on those) are a good example of this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
While I did feel some of this weeks steins gate felt fillery, I do like see these characters interact and given the episodes conclusion, this episode acted as a calm before the storm.
Lenlo
Ill agree with you on King Kong. As for the Ralph Bakshi LotR, I have. I am still to this day impressed by the overlay of 2D art onto real/overexposed footage. It makes for shockingly fluid animation in places and has its own distinct style
Anonymous2118208
@Lenlo - Have you watched the old Ralph Bakshi adaptation of the first two books? It's uneven, but it's interesting comparing and contrasting certain decisions. As good as Peter Jackson is, I feel he makes very longwinded films, I like his version of King Kong a lot, but it is too long.
Anonymous2118276
@supermario i disagree; the point is that even though the LOTH films have cliffhanger endings, they still feel like fils. they have a defined first second and third act with well paced tension and release throughout them. They follow a storytelling macrostructure necessary for films to feel like cohesive narratives even if they are to end on a cliffhanger
Lenlo
I quite liked the individual LOTR movie just fyi
Vonter
Marvel surprisingly has kept their movies simple enough, that while you might miss details nowadays, you can tell what's happening.
Vonter
Another bad case is like with Assassin's Creed, which like Lost, just tried to tease a lot of things, then it grew tired of trying to piece them together and let the last games work more standalone, with little hints of a larger lore.
Vonter
Metroid does both, it has a standalone story and a hint to what a sequel might bring. Though that hint rarely matters by the time the new game is released.
Vonter
@SuperMario - Some videogames trilogies also do that. Gears of War and God of War had good standalone beginnings but by the second game they put cliffhanging endings. Kingdom Hearts does that and I expect 3 to also do it. Megaman Legends and Half Life had incomplete stories, which might be the worse case in regards to trying to make a continuous story.
SuperMario
It ruins the appetite
SuperMario
I actually think Lord of the Rings' trilogy is a bad example to follow. These films are meant to be viewed as a whole, so each film doesn't hold much as an individual story. I just can't digest films that have "to be continued" sign at the end. Imagine having a first course meal and then have to wait for few days for second course
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the current topic, I would be well for the production of a long running, ambitious ova series.
Anonymous2116425
then again, i don't take too much issue with these films feeling like movie-sized eps...the wait just sucks is all
Anonymous2116425
clearly the films need each other to tell the whole story, yet they can be taken for what they are in isolation as well
Anonymous2116425
I don't mind the trilogy trend at all; like Aidan said, when everything is said and done, all the films will be available to watch. I just think a stronger attempt should be made to make them feel like complete films. Something like the lord of the rings trilogy is a great example of how to do this
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am in full confidence that neither I nor Miura will survive to the end of berserk.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course maybe they won't have a future , think about it that way, then they'd never see it, life has that weird way of being unpredictable like that =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
You can always rewatch them just before watching the one after.
AidanAK47
Of course not. But that's the thing. The wait is only a temporary problem. Anyone in the future will have all movies ready to view.
SuperMario
So it's best to wait for another 2 years to watch Heaven's Feel? Hell NOT
AidanAK47
When all the movies come out though you can basically barrel through it like a TV series.
SuperMario
Dangit, it's me Mario
Anonymous2115918
I still don't know if I like this trilogy trend. We've had a fair bun h of those in recent years (Berserk Golden Age, Madoka, even Kizumonogatari). I guess doing it that way, they'd make much more profits, and we have higher production values, but the wait is way too long and I don't think it works as movie-format
Kaiser-Eoghan
One of the very rare times where self-awareness works.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I can be nice and say of course Ryan Reynolds+ violence, comic was funnier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But I'm sure if you think it over, the first deadpool was trapped in origin story mode, as an advantage, the sequel, is probably free of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Deadpool 2 had John Wicks director, which at the least means something in terms of action direction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: There was a whole run of deadpool issues called Cable and deadpool, which I suppose that pairing together gets the best out of the character.
AidanAK47
Seen Deadpool 2 tonight and I have difficultly deciding if it's better or worse than Deadpool 1. Still it's quite fun and I enjoyed it.
AidanAK47
@Anon, I feel somewhat similar in regards to Franxx. When this series finishes I won't be singing high praises for it. Yet I do feel that it's worth watching.
AidanAK47
@Lenlo, Now I get ya. Yeah I understand that. I might even feel the same if I didn't already know the story from the VN.
AidanAK47
@Amagi, The second film seems to be in cinema this year but we won't get it until it hits blu-ray.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Travlos: As I expected, I am disappointed that they have held back . And you might just be right about Castrollop/Caligula/Nero, when I originally attempted to watch the show years ago, that was the episode I stopped on.
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Hisone to Masotan – 06 [I’ll Shout Your Name]

At one point during this episode I almost felt that Hoshino was just too overboard. Being stubborn is one thing, but when you’re too stubborn you outright hurt others’ feeling without backing down, it’s irritating to watch. The issue with Hoshino, as we come to learn during the flashback, is that piloting an F2 has […]

Megalo Box – 7 [The Road to Death]

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Hisone no Masotan – 05 [Do You Really Think That There’s Anybody Who Likes Being Disliked?]

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Darling in the Franxx – 17[Eden]

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Megalo Box – 6 [Until the Last Dog Dies]

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