Posted by psgels on 2 November 2013 with categories: Kill La Kill

The recent discussion on fanservice has gotten me thinking a bit, especially after I found this infographic about Kill la Kill. It’s true that the fanservice in Yozakura Quartet is just bad and distracts from what makes the show good or interesting, and the fanservice in Kill la Kill is much better because it objectifies everyone, and it has a reason behind it, and the argument you often hear is “it’s awesome so who cares?” – but still I see no reason to bring some more nuance in the discussion.

I mean, reason or not: Kill la Kill cashes in on the popular female empowerment trope. A woman kicks ass while dressed in skimpy clothing. Alone, this would be fine, but with how often this is done, it’s hinted that it’s almost a requirement that if you want to kick ass, you need to show some too. The good shows indeed build all sorts of symbolism around it, but does that make it right? Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends. Does having fanservice alone ruin a character? Nah. It’s just one part of a show. But the problem is that everyone reacts to it in a different way: for some people it weighs more heavily than others. And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.

But I do think that Kill la Kill is among Hiroyuki Imaishi’s best attempts at this kind of nuance. I mean, Gurren Lagann was basically a sausage fest (the most badass woman: Yoko, who both fits the badass female character to a T and pretty much got a short end of the character development stick), and Panty and Stocking WAS a series that was partially based on making fun of female stereotypes. This show finally feels balanced, and it’s really enjoyable because of it. This episode was no exception by the way.

The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men. Hajime no Ippo currently is a good example of taking that a bit far, with all of the current penis jokes and all. But also the series that go out of their way to make their characters bishies hereby alienate most of the male population just because they have nothing to watch it for. The truly good shoujo series have guys who are good looking, but who can appeal to everyone.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Great)

53 Responses

  1. martin says:

    nice study on imaishi making fun of stereotypes. 2 more shows are worth mentioning, re:cutie honey ep 1 and magical shopping arcade abenobashi ep 3 + 12. he directed these single episodes and i got the sense he was making fun of his own subject matter by simply taking it over the top. he took the ecchi genre over the top in cutie honey and in abenobashi it was the lolicon fetishes that are so prevalent in anime/japan.

    maybe i could be wrong and say imaishi is just one really immature and insensitive director. even still he is a director better than most at being immature and insensitive.

    this episode was hella enjoyable but it did have a moment that made me uncomfortable. when that dude kicked matoi in the gut and struck her hard in the head even after she was powerless and on the ground is some really sensitive imagery.

  2. AidanAK47 says:

    I always thought of the skimpy outfits female superheroes wear were a kind of tactic. When you think about it the majority of there opponents will be men. And any man will hesitate to attack a half naked women. That hesitation was a great advantage.
    The fanservice in Kill la kill does feel like it has a point. Plus it funny that there’s not just male fanservice but female fanservice. I mean how many guys have been stripped in this show? That said I think the female empowerment image you link is looking a bit too deeply into it.

  3. TheUltimateReaper says:

    Jesus Christ that link. People seriously go through lengths to justify their own idiotic conceptions on sexuality, not to mention just how much the issue is driven about women. Kill la Kill is fucking awesome, and other than a few metaphors or whatever about clothes, and casting off shame, and nudism and whatever I don’t see any reason to really over analyze like I’ve seen people do.

    “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.” It might a be bread and butter way of looking at things but this is what I gather as any messages, and I like it, I think it’s great, I think that’s positive, but people still can’t get over their fanservice gripe.

    Some service is bad, some good, and some I don’t think really matters. I like Kill la Kill through and through, I like the Kamui, I like the crazy powers, I like the outfits, and I like the teacher who is always trying to take off his shirt.

    • jonas says:

      Because cartoons are for kids, and people need some justification to keep watching them. The empowerment thing isn´t even subtext.

      • TheUltimateReaper says:

        >Calling anime a cartoon
        >for kids
        >Brojito a lemon and tomato are both fruits but I wouldn’t put a tomato in a fruit cake.
        >Multiple target demographics in the industry, youngins are just more popular

        People are just stupid.

      • AidanAK47 says:

        “Because cartoons are for kids..”

        Couldn’t even finish a sentence without failing miserably. Even taking out the fact that you call a anime a cartoon there’s this complete misconception of cartoons being just for kids. Go ahead and watch the spawn animated series and try telling me that again.

      • jonas says:

        “people […] often play a card that allows them to pretend that their liking such a show does not reflect on their tastes at all.

        […]It’s not as if that we are truly expected to only watch and enjoy the consensus masterpieces. It’s just that we often behave as if we are expected to, and that we impose this on others”.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Jonas, listen here. That image was not trying to justify a bad anime. It was trying to justify the fanservice in an anime. You are just way off base. There’s plenty more in this that they could attempt to justify with artistic merit but they tried to justify the fanservice because that’s what people are raging about and making them lump Kill la kill in the same pile of generic fanservice anime as queens blade or to love-ru. Which is wrong. The thing is that regardless of whether fanservice has a point or not, it’s still fanservice. But that does not make this a fanservice show because fanservice is not the main point of the show. It’s not out of some silly guilt.

          On that note.
          “90% of anime and manga is crud (Sturgeon’s Revelation); or, 80% of the good stuff one gets out anime and manga comes from 20% of the examples (Pareto’s Principle, ‘The Law of the Vital Few’); take your pick. Either way, many shows people like will fall under the ‘not excellent’ spectrum of quality.”

          That applies to every medium of entertainment. And I do mean every medium. Music, video games, film…90% of it is crap. It’s not something specific to anime and manga.
          And in many cases the person who likes a bad show genuinely believes it to be good. Because the enjoyment of the show tends to faze out the flaws in their eyes. You see that happen with good anime too. Any time someone talks about their favorite anime they tend to speak only of the positives of it and many times fail to say anything negative about it. No matter how good an anime is there’s always flaws, people just prefer not to see that.

          So to sum it up, your comment is still pretty stupid.

          • jonas says:

            Fanservice: Long, full shots of robots in mecha shows, sexual elements, long fight scenes, and violence can all be considered fan service as they are specifically aimed at pleasing the fans of any given show.

            Kill la Kill can´t be compared to Queen´s Blade, Freezing, or the wrestling show, because Kill la Kill is not boring as hell.

            I´m not denying my comment was stupid, but the fact that you can only understand Ghostlightning´s essay on a superficial level tells me we are on the same boat (hint:”I posit however, that guilt is a feeling from moral wrongness”).

          • AidanAK47 says:

            And anything can be considered anime regardless of whether it’s made in japan or not. Lets not get into semantics here. It tends to make things lose meaning.

            Just to make sure I reread it before posting this and I am sure I understood it fine. Basically he’s talking about how in an effort to avoid judgement or attack people who like an anime which is widely regarded by mass opinion as poor or terrible will tend to take a stance of claiming it has merit artistically or by labeling it as their guilty pleasure instead of simply admitting that they like a bad show. Not really rocket science.
            However I counter by saying that in many cases people actually truly believe a show is good and are not attempting to cover up a bad show because they like it. Because to them they don’t see these flaws other people speak of.

        • jonas says:

          Close, ghostlightning is talking about “ressentiment”, that is why he starts with this:

          “Guilt, yes guilt. Nobody wants to feel it. It implies one did something wrong, and is inferior to those who do otherwise.In anime and manga however (not to imply that it doesn’t occur elsewhere), taste is part of a social dominance game that’s played for high stakes: self-esteem in the internet.

          Sure it sounds silly, and it is. But people do operate under the paradigm of taste. They accuse each other of having bad taste, and praise creative works for being ‘tasteful,’ as if the benchmark or touchstone for such can be taken for granted”.

          Now compare with this: “According to Kierkegaard ressentiment occurs in a “reflective, passionless age”, in which the populace stifles creativity and passion in passionate individuals. Kierkegaard argues that individuals who do not conform to the masses are made scapegoats and objects of ridicule by the masses, in order to maintain status quo and to instill into the masses their own sense of superiority”.

          You can read more about it here: www2.fiu.edu/~filosof/Site/Current_Issue_files/1 Eva Melnikova.pdf

          • AidanAK47 says:

            Sigh…I hate it when people talk like this. It means I have to read the damn thing three times just to make sure that I got it. So lets break it down.

            Basically people tend to use a persons taste to judge them as a means of pumping up their own superiority complex and placing another individual lower than them.
            To which I say, well duh. That’s obvious.
            This in turn stifles creativity because in order to be good, works are forced to conform to popular opinion. An those who do not conform with popular opinion are ostracized.
            Which is a pretty good point. In attempts to make movies gain more money there are test screening which a random group of people could change the entire film. One particular example is with I am legend which was supposed to have a more depressing ending but was changed because the test audience wanted something more actiony.

            And if this isn’t what you are getting at then try to summarize it into a sentence. Because if your goal is to get the point across then the most effective way is to explain it a clearly and concisely as possible. Talking like this is just a pain in the ass for someone reading it and doesn’t show intelligence.
            Actually is this an attempt to try and pump your own superiority by attempting to prove that you are more intelligent than me? If so, I am afraid you only proved yourself a sore loser.

          • jonas says:

            Sorry, I thought you were interested in this kind of things, my bad.

          • AidanAK47 says:

            I don’t mind talking philosophy but the comments aren’t really the best place for it.
            This is an anime site mate, if you want to talk about philosophy try the shoutbox up there.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Well, honestly, I like those kind of things too, but I don’t think the infographic guys are wrong – in fact, I had reached the same exact conclusions myself, independently, on a simple moment of fridge logic.
      If you think about it, it makes sense. For us, each episode is just 20 minutes of fun, the whole series will amount to less than 12 hours total. For the creators, these are days, weeks, maybe months worth of work. I hardly see these smart writers (who have proven being smart and loving to have fun with what they do) just going for “oh, look, there’s going to be explosions and naked chicks fighting, this is going to be SO AWESOME”. The tongue-in-cheek sexual symbolism was present throughout Gurren Lagann, with its whole spiral thing; it didn’t necessarily mean something DEEP, but it was there as a guideline. It’s easier to write if you have a loose theme, because being forced to adhere to that will give you interesting associative ideas. I can totally see the thought process behind male sexuality -> spiral -> reproduction / DNA / evolution -> galaxies etc. That’s what led to Gurren Lagann. Panty and Stocking was also ripe with jabs at moe culture and fanservice – the tease being that the most ‘available’ girl, Panty, was also the absolute opposite of what anime usually considers attractive, that is a shy, modest girl who does not show any sexual desire. Sex is always present in Imaishi’s works, if only to make fun of those prudish anime who will hypocritically pretend girls don’t have sexual instincts and that the most daring thing a boy and his girlfriend with do in high school is a hand hold and a kiss but still sneak in panty shots and jiggling boobs at every moment. I don’t think it’s a true “empowerment” statement, I think he’s just trolling the average (especially Japanese) viewer.

    • Mazz says:

      “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.”

      This. I agree this is the message of the show, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn’t change the fact that the fanservice annoys me, but I can accept it as long as the rest of the show is good. So far, I’m digging it.

  4. Lazy says:

    That’s fine and all, but what about the episode?

  5. unentschieden says:

    Do note that we didn´t see who took out the clubs. They ended up crucified with brooms and stuffed into the trash… who was on cleaning duty?

  6. ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

    @psgels I feel that the comments section of your last Yozakura Quartet review, and the shoutbox, influenced the direction of this Kill la Kill episode review. :D

  7. Malkuth says:

    Those revealing outfits and visual pronunciation of the differences between male and female physiology (erroneously labelled as fanservice) is actually part of the plot and is sad that viewers need bullet-point presentations to understand it. Not only in Kill La Kill but in Yozakura Quarter too as well as the Monogatari Series and so on. Unfortunately, none has made similar graphics for those though. It is very tiring to read complaint after complaint about pantyshots and gainaxing boobs, but nothing about unrealistic muscle-bound macho male MCs, shotas, and other stereotypes that sexually objectify guys through equally (if not more) reavealing animation. If nothing else this train of thought is the problem, since it diverts attention from both the anime and social implications. The only thing it achieves is to treat lightly the subject and this way quenching the guilt of pretentious feminists.

    • psgels psgels says:

      “The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men.”

      ^ I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside.

      • Aegd says:

        I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows.

        I don’t think kill la kill is an example of that. On the contrary, kill la kill is a good example on how to use fanservice in a good way.

        High School of the Dead is a good example on how they ruined a otherwise decent shows with stupid fanservice that made no sense in the context.

        In kill la kill it’s basically the other way around. The fanservice makes sense most of the times and fit the setting and presentation of the story.

        There are also shows that are made with the pretense of having a story, but it only being a hollow shell to present adult situations. Shows like Queens Blade, that’s basically a watered down pornographic anime.

      • Malkuth says:

        >> I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside. <> I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows. <<

        This is a common over-generalization based on lexical revisionism. Fanservice, like pron are used wrongly by most viewers limited to sexual innuendo related or not plot and character development. First of all it is not limited to sexual innuendo, and second it must always be unrelated to the story. With its original definition you are absolutely right, it degrades an anime by targeting a specific sales group. The problem is that when broadening the term viewers and most importantly reviewers build up a negative bias, and focus their thoughts on the mislabeled fanservice ignoring what they have actually watched.

    • ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

      This comment made me chuckle because I know I’m one of the people who has complained to you vociferously about the pantyshots in YQ (on ASuki). Oh how interconnected is the anime blogosphere.

      But yeah, sorry for tiring you out, Malkuth. :3

      • Malkuth says:

        Don’t worry, at least you can discuss your opinion. Most of the time in AS/MAL/AniDB (but more often bloggers) just complaint about female outfits and/or mannerism, because they sexually objectify them, totally missing what is going on.

  8. Spike says:

    People sometimes get objectification and celebration mixed up because they are focusing on the medium (anime) and not the work itself. Gurren Lagaan’s Kamina was a celebration of GAR and Matoi is an attempt at the polar opposite.

    It’s also a whole lot different from
    Female Character A: How’s your day going?
    Female Character B: It’s going pretty well *insert pantry shot* What’s for lunch?
    Female Character A: *insert sexy pose* Just eating some ramen
    Female Character C: *running into frame with Boobs bouncing* (extra detail given to motion) Hiiiiiiii Guuuuuuiiseeeee!
    Female Character A: *while groping Female Character C* OH YOU’VE GOTTEN BIGGER!!!
    ETC ETC ETC

    Wow I just wrote an episode that would sell 8k Blurays easily.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      You forgot about the girl walking in eating banana/lolipop suggestively.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Add in a cute mascot character, an incompetent bland male lead, and put the girls into a school club that does nothing of what’s supposed to do, and you got a best seller right there, sir.

  9. Juno says:

    lol What happened to the episode review? XD

    On the topic in general, I find this political/social cartoon somewhat relevant: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6e259VXFI1rt8sgdo1_500.jpg

    I think here, it’s a combination of things many guys like to see on girls, and a possible concept of liberating one’s self from social constraints. Especially in Japan, where showing skin is STILL considered bad by social standards. It’s still “fanservice,” but it’s done in a way that supposedly makes it okay to a lot of the audience. That said, it was obviously targeted far more toward the male demographic, no matter who ends up liking it in the end. I definitely see a lot more females enjoying it on this side of the Pacific than in Japan, since female sexualization is starting to be embraced by a lot of females here, who take it with a sense of pride, rather than as an insult.

    On a personal level, though, I still can’t help rolling my eyes. The fanservice is a little too over the top, even if it’s tongue-in-cheek. I still enjoy the show immensely, including the animation and transformation scenes and whatever. But still, this kind of fanservice is always a slight turn-off to me, so to each their own. =P

  10. Jalapeno Bagel says:

    “And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.”

    As long as we’re off-topic from the show, I’ll just say my two cents on this. It’s hard to create any story (let alone a good one) that caters to everyone without knowing what everyone wants. That kind of requires you to care about the genre label and conventions (of course, if it’s by complete coincidence, then you’re a happy prodigy). I don’t know if you’ll agree, but I argue that the best shows are the ones that do what they think is best for the audience they’re aiming for. Like you said, everyone reacts differently to fanservice, but it’s not just limited to that. If you have little hope of satisfying everyone, then might as well focus on satisfying who you want to satisfy.

    I think critical discussion of anime like this frequently goes off on the wrong things: aka, it’s akin to expecting a professional basketball player to have better soccer skills because it’s more well-rounded.

  11. Saitoq says:

    “Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.”
    I agree with this. Although I think the reason for why they do this is because that’s how it often works in the real world. If a female wants to be a successful actress for example, in most cases she has to show off quite a lot of cleavage to get there, regardless of how good she is. It’s commentary on what girls very often have to do to survive.
    So what a lot of women do is embracing it, they take charge of their own sex appeal and does it for themselves, if someone enjoys the view, good for them, but overall they do it for themselves. In this show that would be Satsuki’s whole attitude about wearing the kamui.
    I hope as the show goes on Ryuko will become good enough to kick ass even without the kamui, but for now it’s necessary for her to wear it if she wants to even stand a chance.

  12. mulligan says:

    Fanservice discussion aside, I thought this was the best looking episode so far of the five. It’s a relief for me eyeballs not to have manic action or an overcrowded shot composition every ep. Unapologetic craziness is what this series is good at, but great colour design, shot composition and sequence storyboarding can’t hurt.

    It’s early days but I’ve got a feeling that Trigger is almost treating this series almost like an “episodic showreel” of sorts, with each episode showing off a different trick every time. Not a bad way to kick things off for a new studio doing their own original content.

  13. Hogart says:

    I think that there are enough hints that the fanservice isn’t just for cheap thrills and comedy (though they clearly want to have their cake and eat it too). Whether they capitalize on any of the themes they’re toying with remains to be seen, but at least so far the fanservice isn’t much worse for wear than it was in a show like Fujiko Mine.

    I think people are a bit too sensitive about these things anyway. I mean I despise fanservice for fanservice’s sake. It’s a bit insulting unless the entire point of the show is titillation. But I feel that allowing shows to experiment with these kinds of uncomfortable sexual themes is the only way we’ll get over ourselves as a race.

    In short, at least they’re getting us to talk about these things a bit more seriously, and all we’re still watching their dumb hot-blooded highschool anime.

  14. Autumn Season 2013 Preview says:

    I thought 5.5/8 means excellent

  15. kero says:

    Speaking of fanservice, were there any guys who were able to see past the fanservice to watch Free?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, I watched Free. My wife gave up on it, but I found the time to watch the last few eps after that.

      • kero says:

        What did you think of the story, and of the fan service? Do you think it would put people off watching an anime even if it was a good one?

        • Hogart says:

          It was a pretty basic and average club anime, really. Nothing special aside from the fanservice and a bit of the usual KyoAni animation budget.

          The only thing other than the novelty of the fanservice that made it worth the watch was some of the attention to detail for the swimming club aspects. But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.

          The fanservice wasn’t so much a problem as it was frankly the only real draw the anime had going for it, because KyoAni wasn’t that serious about the premise otherwise. I give it a pass because it provides me with a handy reality check for boys who try to tell me girls shouldn’t mind the fanservice in their anime.

          • kero says:

            “But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.”

            ???

            .

        • Hogart says:

          http://gargarstegosaurus.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/i-suppose-this-is-a-review-of-free/

          They were on a swimming club, so they were really into that aspect of Free. I was on a swim team when I was a kid, but that was probably too early in my life for me to really go on a nostalgia binge with Free.

          • kero says:

            ahhh. I get that.

            well sort of. I got into (watching) basketball because of slam dunk, and now I’m pretty much only watching Kuroko no Basuke, because there’s basketball in it.

  16. Jo says:

    I’m gonna say that I am enjoying this show, it’s got great energy and direction and its pretty creative as well, but can I just say something?

    I think you guys are viewing the way the issues surrounding the fanservice in show in a way thats too simplistic. For starters, the female fanservice and male fanservice is not even on the same level because not only does male fanservice happen less, they’re always shown as taking their clothes/ posing for the audience of their OWN accord, while for the girls in Ryuko’s case she constantly looks uncomfortable and unhappy in Senketsu, not to mention the visible ogling from all sides which is absent when male fanservice happens AND the slightly rapey undertones from earlier eps regarding Senketsu. Even when she stops feeling that way it is more about acceptance for Satsuki and Ryuko than anything else, that they HAVE to wear the things they might not want to to achieve what they need to, and damn everyone else who thinks lowly of them for that.

    While this is more than most anime would do regarding fanservice in their own show, does no one feel that this is also inadequate? Can an issue like that which plagues societal attitudes towards young girls today and contributes to victim blaming for things like rape really be explained away by such a simple thing?

    I know this show is not trying to blow our minds with any philosophical debate regarding sexism/feminism or whatevs, but is it wrong to want just some more sensitivity if they’re going to breach the topic anyways?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, it might be a bit to ask, it all depends on what their creative goals are and where they decide to go with the series. I think we’ll need to wait at least a few more episodes before we know for sure, because they may have chosen a Gurren Lagann sense of style because they’re aiming for a Gurren Lagann type of twist. Who knows?

      Besides, Studio Trigger is hardly well-established. It’s not like they could just randomly afford to take all the risks in the world, especially if you consider how safe and stale most of the anime the major studios create are. Just being different and taking a risk is impressive enough if they pull it off, so I’d rather be supportive even if they don’t change the world and end up making another, inferior Gurren Lagann.

  17. DmonHiro says:

    I am calling it now:
    1. Mako’s antics are all fake.
    2. She’s either going to betray, or she’s completely broken inside.

  18. RABUJOI says:

    1. Great find on the infographic; it’s a very elegant, eloquent exegesis of Kill la KIll so far.

    2. Like all art, for me the best anime are the ones I and others have the most to say about. This means even an unspeakable horrible anime that spurs elevated conversation (though a real life example escapes me) is “better” than a boring anime about which nothing need be said or drawn from it. Whatever its controversies, KLK is evoking discussion with levels of nuance, which is good.

    3. It’s not just that the fanservie in YQ is bad and a waste of time, it’s that there’s no reason for it to exist beyond titilating a portion of the audience, which may well be the majority, but is still unnecessary. You can say lots about the fanservice in KLK, but you can’t say much of anything about Nanami Ao flashing her shimapan or Nurse Juri stripping off her uniform to reveal a bikini.

    4. YQ itself knows that its fanservice is useless, to the point where it’s including it for “compliance purposes”, or possibly even as tongue-in-cheek. The fanservice is a resolute afterthought, inserted in places where its absense wouldn’t necessarily be missed. Fanservice is made to be crucial to the themes of KLK, but it’s simply tacked-on and irrelevant to the themes of YQ.

    5. It’s telling that the most prominent female character – Hime – shows the least amount of skin; in fact, she’s downright covered up most of the time. Unlike the women in KLK, her gender and sexuality play little or no role in her development as a character. Rather, she has had to work hard since rising to the mayorship as a young child to gain the trust, respect, and love of the townsfolk, most of whom are her elders.

  19. Sword Testing Cliff says:

    I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.

    “Balsa” “Torogai” “Faye” “that chick from the 12 kingdoms(Yoko I think). . .actually a vast majority o fthe women from that show” “Probably ALL the female characters from LOGH” “main character from Psycho pass”
    And now that I think more about it, actually a lot of the women from Moribito were written extreemly well. I think that frankly that show should be common viewing for new writers on how to portray women.

    99.999999% of writers don’t know how to write women, period. It’s not their fault either. How women are as people, is VERY different than how many people in the “female empowerment” demographic Want to see women in media. Writers, studios, directors, company chairs know this. Which is why most writters couldn’t be bothered to actually acurately portray female characters in media (yes this happens in western tv a lot too)

    Pretty much the prerequisite for “female character” = man with tits & no penis, and looks pleasing to the male demographic to get more sales”

    Because that’s pretty much how they act/portrayed.

    There are a few execptions and all the ones I can think of off the top of my head that I’ve seen.

    Pretty much nowdays, how much money you make (especially as an anime) is pretty dependant on how sexual/female powery(there’s a HUGE Cuckholdery demographic among the male population of anime watchers)
    the main female characters are, OR how “moe” they are (O HAI THAR K-ON. . .and your 238423945523 clones)

    That’s just the way it is now and the way its gonna be for a while.

    THIS show gets away with that because everything is just way over the top, that its pretty much making fun of all of that. (while cashing in at the same time.)When you go over the top, you pretty much become a parody and all that “Sexism” seriousness doesn’t apply. Personalyl I think people are thinking way too much about it, Although on the other hand the show is pointing out how rediculous the industry is with writers pretty much being bad at writing women/overly pandering to different demogrpahics, rather than just making something. . .GOOD (Hello breaking bad, game of thrones.)

  20. Faruk says:

    Err you didnt review the episode.

  21. Taiga says:

    So.. what was the episode about?

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Amagi
@Kaiser: You're right, totally forgot that. Looking forward to this. Also I could have sworn I heard about a new project from Iso (Dennou Coil) last year but I guess I either confused him with someone else or with Children of Ether in which he's involved in some kind of way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: That series was going to be devilman crybaby .
Amagi
Wasn't Yuasa also doing a series of some sort this year? Haven't watched the movies yet but I loved most of his stuff so far, with Kaiba being my favorite.
Anonymous1575628
Wow, Houseki did not disappoint for me this week.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I enjoyed it for what it was. But I'd say even if you didn't read the subs you probably wouldn't have much trouble following it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I actually had a look and lu over the wall, coincidentally , there are moments of where Yuasa's imagination/visuals shine through and its a genuinely charming film at times, but it does almost outstay its welcome and there's a sense Yuasa was somewhat restrained this time round, it IS a kids movie and that kind of does need to be taken into account, its not AS mad as mind game or kemonozume.
Amagi
Yoake Tsugeru Lu no Uta is subbed, but no idea if the subs are good
Kaiser-Eoghan
And its quite natural.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Florida project succeeds through its free flowing nature/narrative and manages to be hilarious all the while managing to never allow you forget its also a kitchen sink drama, the best performances come from William Dafoe and the girl. At the end it gut punches the audience emotionally.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: also expecting Florida Project, 3 Billboards, and The Shape of Water in my end
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, Kino was a bit too slight this week.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Just Lu, disaster artist and happy end left now for the year. Maybe the new Godzilla.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I felt that Sion Soni's Noriko's dinner table did the irl acting thing better.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I'm going to watch The Killing of a Sacred Deer. Consider I regarded The Lobster as one of the best film of that year and Dogtooth and Alps impressed me a lot; I have high hope for this one
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mooooommm, I want my Lu over the wal subs and I want them now OMO!
Niello
...Can't torrent where I am, grrrr.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm quite fond of Go Nagai's devilman, so I'll be interested in seeing Yuasa's adaptation of it whenever it comes out.
SuperMario
@Kasier: ha! thanks Kaiser. Finally it's out... gonna download it now
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Here is a link to Night is short walk on girl English subbed: https://nyaa.si/view/979508
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: OR JUST MONIKA Amirite =P
SuperMario
in all seriousness though, I hope they can use one week break to smooth out their production.
SuperMario
so Just Because's taking a break this week. The reason: just because
Lenlo
Mhmhmm Inuyashiki was great this week. I just love this show.
Amagi
The hell- no didn't know that. I really wouldn't have expected tribute songs to this series
Niello
@Amagi: Did you know this exists? And it's by Igorrr no less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhQQ57N-9ys&list=PL9ku-W0xIzd4EYUL9bUG2CZXBIy7cCiSk
Niello
And yes, I'm just waiting and waiting for the day the anime get announced. No doubt it'll becomes a classic.
Niello
@Eoghan, I don't think it becomes a mess though, the story threads all come together amazingly well.
KTravlos
I too recommend at least watching 2nd episode of Tanya before passing judgement.

Looking forward to the Urasawa manga as well!
SuperWooper
@Anonymous: Thanks! Reading blog posts used to be my go-to distraction when I took breaks at work. Now I have to take breaks from writing them. It's a grind at times, but Star Crossed ought to be alive for a while yet.
Amagi
Adaptions for series like these only work when they're passion projects. If they're not they end up like the Dies Irae anime.
Amagi
It's another one of those series I really wish to see as an anime with music, movement and so on. But same as with Made in Abyss, it needs a cometent director and one that is in love with the work or else it will be a letdown
Amagi
@Niello: Yes and I fucking love it. The gritty style, the setting, the characters and designs and so on. @Kaiser didn't know she was under Nihei that's cool. I love these sketchy styles
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: yes and more people I believe should so, despite that its kind of become a mess, I take the thing as one big black comedy. The woman who drew it interestingly enough apprenticed under Tsutomu Nihei.
Niello
Anyone here read Dorohedoro?
Anonymous1566521
Just passing by to say like the place, it's kinda perfect to read for whenever I take a break. And most importantly I haven't read anything stupid. Hopefully it won't die anytime soon:0
Vonter
Masky - Overlord has an OP isekai, yet I find that series compelling do to the world building, and how even with power and influence, the MC plays like a chessmaster and not brute force his way into doing something.
AidanAK47
@Masky, I wouldn't write off Tanya so fast. Make it to episode 2 at least.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I feel I need to actually properly get into Godzilla for some frame of reference before the anime film, I've only seen the new one and the original.
Amagi
Or the Hiroshima movie
Amagi
I know you can't have everything but considering that we currently have Blame, the Itoh movies, Lu over the Wall, Godzilla or Napping Princess this is rather a let down
Amagi
Meh, not really happy about the anime film festival decision here - a few good movies are there: heaven's feel, motherfucka (from the tekkonkinkreet guy) and another one that sounds great but other than that a lot specials like conan movie #718 or something, the third part (why?) of persona 3 and other movies that are just specials of series I dropped at some point
Masky
*WWI
Masky
I mean, op isekai mc is boring whether they are hero or villain, thats how tired I'm of that trope at least
Masky
So was wondering what was up with that Tanya the Evil show and was disappointed to find out its "Isekai were MC is evil and WWII esque fantasy setting"
Anonymous1566013
dragon ball kai
Anonymous1566013
dragon ball z
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: That Godard biopic you mentioned is showing tonight and on sunday afternoon, at the very least I'll be checking out Le Chinoise in preparation for it.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: and right after I just watched Loving Vincent in theatre, it's available online
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: Blame! got released ages ago and no one watched it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Out in cinemas in Dublin in 3 weeks though, might aswell wait.
SuperMario
Also Lu over the Wall is out, with Russian subtitle. So anyone here who can understand Russian, you're in luck
Amagi
@Kaiser: Thanks, I love quite many anime movies. Guess I have something to watch this weekend.
AidanAK47
Not many I am afraid. Though I do like it's music.
Anonymous1565678
who is fairy tail fan here
Kaiser-Eoghan
For those interested anime Godzilla is out in a few weeks. Also Genocidal organ, napping princess and in this corner of the world are out as is the Fate/ilya movie.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm interested enough to read more of that Urasawa manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't point out errors (although its part of my job at work to lol) but I feel that one thing was noticeable in the Kino review, soap instead of soup is mentioned.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Eh, I quite like it when anything deals with religion or conviction in a mature way, it makes me feel things.
AidanAK47
Not really keen on following a Urasawa manga while it's ongoing considering how much of a slow burn his stories usually are.
Amagi
To the English only people: the Urasawa manga is translated into English now - it's on Mangastream (so beware of the watermark, but better than nothing)
Anonymous1565136
The anime?
SuperMario
... still on course with the anime (my phone acting up again)
SuperMario
@afgm: welcome back mate. It has been awhile. Hope you're
Anonymous1564565
@Amagi, The sign post with Iyami's teeth symbol read something like Buddhist reseach facility, which only makes it weirder.
Amagi
Also that Iyami clone seems to be the same as the running guy on page 2 (which was also the promo page posted on sites like ANN)
Amagi
Thank you very much anon. I love how international this chat is. But what you said makes the story feel even weirder. Really wonder what this is about but I can't say I am not interested now
Anonymous1564565
This is weird, really weird.
Anonymous1564565
[spoiler] As expected, now he's in another trouble. ...He mistook a crow for a blue bird that will bring happiness. And then we go back to the scene at the beginning when he hallucinate about someone calling. ...Is that Iyami from Osomatsu-san?
Anonymous1564565
[spoiler]Then because Trump is currently popular, their plan to is mass produce the mask with the guy's factory? (He's totally getting dupe isn't e?)
Anonymous1564565
[spoiler] The wife won a lottery and got a free vacation ticket to a luxurious cruise ship. She then left the husband with another guy. The Trump parody hag person is Beverly Duncan. Then one of the husband coworker put on a mask of Trump and start mocking.
afgm
I feel like the site is finally coming back into its own :)
afgm
(and great old writers)
afgm
Great new writers on the site
Anonymous1564565
[spoiler] He's trying to look at tax avoidance and discuss it to his fam. The turns out the gov start checking so that plan was a bust. Now they are looking at potential confiscations, including their flip flop factory.
Anonymous1564565
[Spoiler] So the guy seem to be having some kind of hallucination of someone calling him, even though there's no one in that direction.
Anonymous1564565
@Amagi "but it's in Thai", :)
Amagi
I am really looking forward to the Pluto anime. But I guess it won't come earlier than spring 2018 or something.
Amagi
If it was Japanese I'd at least understand a few parts (and almost everything if it was French) but now I have not the slightest idea what this is about but it does look interesting. I also liked Urasawa's earlier one shot. The one after Billy
Amagi
Not sure if I am allowed to link scans so here an indirect (last post) one I found, but it's in Thai (I hope someone who understands it will translate that chapter into English) https://www.reddit.com/r/manga/comments/780rve/sl_how_long_until_we_see_the_1st_chapter_of_naoki/
Anonymous1564517
It shows a lot of shots though that bring back memories of Urasawa's earlier works. Its great that he's going weird; Urasawa is one of the best at producing unique series, even if his methodical writing and storytelling style is always evident.
Anonymous1564517
Is it Mujirushi? I saw some French advert for it, (nothing said except that it's launching soon), but I can't find anything else on it.
Amagi
There is a (sadly, non-English) scan for Urasawa's new manga and it looks weird. Hundreds of masks of some presidential candidate that looks like a female Trump and a weird and shady guy at the end.
Lenlo
That said, why is PUBG on any of these lists. Its still in beta
Lenlo
Horizon on the other hand is easily understood and fits the open world mold well. I like Nier more, but Horizon is still a really good game.
Lenlo
Everyone knows it exists, but not everyone likes it/could finish it/understands it.
Lenlo
Thats the thing, it still is a niche. Its in the same category of Souls games now
Niello
Nier may not be a new IP, but it's an IP that finally rise from obscurity after being a really niche cult hit for years.
Niello
Why would being weird a negative for Nier? Doesn't that imply creativity?
Vonter
I suppose because Horizon is a new IP and also less weird than Nier. I haven't played it, but presentation alone has marked a great impression of that game.
Niello
Why is Nier in only 3 categories and Horizon Zero Dawn so many even where it's not deserve?
Niello
I still think Maho Yome is super overrated. The show so far has been more about spectacles than anything. I get it, the manga is pretty good, still not one nearly even one of the best though.
Vonter
PUBG I feel its an odd choice. Mainly because it's the only game listed that I wasn't aware it existed.
Vonter
The game awards are near, and so here are the nominations for all categories:
http://thegameawards.com/awards/
Anonymous1562244
KT Here. they did not force it. They let the circumstances do the talking and it was powerful.
Anonymous1562244
KT Here: Yes psgels is a man, yes for a long time I was under the impression he was a woman. Now and Then, Here and There is indeed excellent. The thing was exactly that, a frank depiction of what child soldiers go through. Considering how most shounen shows are essentially about kids engaging in war, the frank and gritty depictions was welcome if dis-concerning. And as Super pointed out they did
SuperMario
Yeah, I can give the show a full review (says the guy who is currently behind on his weekly post). But be mindful that as this show is in my top 10 anime, my rating might be even higher than psgels' (Usually my taste is different than his but in Now and Then we are pretty much on the same page)
SuperMario
The shounen element is for me, intentional as Now and then plays by the typical shounen rules (with a bery typical shounen protagonist) entirely in its first episode before slaming every brutal things towards him. Yep, they imply many dark contents make it much more disturbing. That girl (I think her name is Mary)'s circumstance ripped my heart
Nielllo
@Mario: I'd be interest in that! The atmosphere to me is like Jing the Bandit King but less surreal and more shounen.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The scene where the girl is raped/abused in the prison. It stands out for the fact they imply it rather than showing.
SuperMario
Actually, I can re-watch it over the weekend and give it a full review. Again, it has been awhile so I'm intrigued to see how the show's holding up for me now
SuperMario
They're brutal but not for the sake of being brutal, I never feel the show as heavy handed on its brutality, or sugarcoating the optimistism of the main character. The show is about the scar of war and for that imo they really deliver the message
SuperMario
That's what happen when I prepared to write a long comment, but work held me up so I had to cut it short. It's been awhile since I last saw Now and Then, but I feel the show has a frank and down to earth depection of the terror of war...
Nielllo
@SuperMario, You'll need to explain it to me man...
Anonymous1561608
@Psgels is woman
Anonymous1561597
Really???
SuperMario
@Niello: i love Now and Then. One of the rare series that I rated 10/10. I feel all the drama is raw, and effective
Nielllo
The last time I check, the scanlation group doesn't have the translator position filled up. At this point I'm probably going to order the remaining volumes at some point and just try to read it in Japanese. The worse thing is it's a josei so the text doesn't have furigana and I'll be stuck with just Kanji.
Nielllo
That sums up my feeling for Now and Then, Here and There really well.I took a look at the raw of the last chapter and it pretty much ended like how I think it would (mostly the epilogue, so not much spoiler)
Kaiser-Eoghan
With how slow the updates are for Amatsuki's manga I will probably re-re-read the whole thing again when it ever finishes. I disliked the protaganist of now and then here and there , while I did enjoy the misery the characters went through as it made for good drama and that dictator guy was suitably effective, I never got the FEELs watching it.
Nielllo
My taste generally align well with psgels (hurray for seeing potential in Amatsuki? that one surprised me, really didn't expect a 90/100, not complaining of course), but can someone explain to me, the appeal of Now and Then, Here and There?
Kaiser-Eoghan
*are many
Kaiser-Eoghan
I suppose we do live in the introvert age, so there probably are who have plenty of time to burn.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I agree about the having more time when your young thing definitely though, I'd argue I probably had too much of it, we probably don't use that time as well as we should come to think of it looking back.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which means I also have more time because I'm not in a relationship.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know this will sound terrible, but I don't really bother associating with women beyond necessary interaction.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*or hikkimori
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm not upset about this, just means theres extra time to be filled because everyones too pre-occupied in their spare time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I save well and don't have many people to buy for , I also pirate everything.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wouldn't call myself a NEET of hikkikomori, but genuinely do have absolutely no life, so I pretty much only leave my home for part time work/food/cinema trips. I don't party or drink and I see old friends once or twice a year (They've all moved), maybe my brother slightly more but not as often as most people would.
SuperMario
@Vyse: haha, you have a wild imagination. I'm pretty sure he's man
SuperMario
@anon1561372: pretty much what Kaiser said. He did came back a few months ago for monthly summaries but it seems life's swallowing him again. Would love to see him back to be honest
SuperMario
@Aidan: well, I'm at a stage where I don't have either enough time or money or anything concrete for my life. So I envy those who have plenty times to burn
Kaiser-Eoghan
Psgels professional and social life became more demanding and had a bout of writers block. Going by the photograph and voice on some of the podcasts he did, psgels is very much a man.
VyseLegendaire
psgels is a female
Anonymous1561272
@SuperMario Where did he go? Did he just stop completely?
AidanAK47
Well his posts were not as long as ours and I think he did them mostly in his secondary school years and you have plenty of time to burn back then. I remember I used to make a point of finishing games 100% back then and I replayed a ton of them over and over again.
SuperMario
And back in the day, psgels could blog like 3 or 4 posts per day, many of them on the same day of its airing. How the hell could he do that consistently for almost 10 years?
SuperMario
Fell asleep yesterday while writing Houseki review. Now that bastard will have to wait until later tonight (It's morning here). Apologize for that
Niello
Really? I thought the manga art is gorgeous. The beginning, not so much, but her art really improved. I love how whimsical it is. Other characters not so much, but Mahmut's design is really a step down from the manga.
KTravlos
ah you will hate me. Much as I love the story, I just cannot find the character art pleasing. On that one point for me the animated version was better. For example I much preferred the depiction of Einstein in the anime than in the manga. Now this is a personal thing, but I am shallow, and I do read manga partly for the art. So I am torn. I prefer the manga for the story but the anime for the art
Niello
@KTravlos: As a fan of the manga, I wouldn't say it's for us manga reader at all. I dropped this abomination long ago, I just can't stand it. It got butchered just like Amatsuki was, and tha's by the same director. I really really hope he never get to touch on an adaptation ever again.
KTravlos
also the Altai episode this week showed all the problems of the series. The pace was just too fast. Essentially this was just an episode for manga readers. Very very problematic
KTravlos
@SuperMario. I actually think that a double review of Altiar and AS would work better, as a way to talk a bit more expansively on the whole genre
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh hey awesome, new black mirror episodes in December.
Anonymous1558371
it's not really a plot twist, but it is a drastic change.
Anonymous1558371
I honestly don't know how well the anime will handle it. I'd like to think they will surpass the manga because they put a lot of care into the scene. It involves a fight scene and they have been handling those well, so I'm hopeful.
SuperMario
@anon1558097: will that shock plot twist whatever-it-is even make it this season? I'll be honest but if I have to compare the current anime to what I've read from the manga so far (first few chapters), The manga is more inventive and awe-inspiring for me
Anonymous1558097
@Mario: DON'T. I'm having a much better time enjoying the show ever since I stop comparing it to the manga. Still a shame I won't be getting the initial shock reaction from what's going to happen in the second half though.
SuperMario
Now you guys are really tempting me to read on the houseki manga, but I WON'T
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really wish that we could see more of the snail race things in houseki , the Gems and moon people have had their turn.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Honey and clover had a much stronger balance of humour and drama, with sugatsu I feel its the drama that stands out best.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Okay major major MAJOR houseki spoilers....sensei is really....
.....
.....Saitama from onepunch man.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I've only seen the first season.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And anyone who breaks your Dia(mond) must be destroyed.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: just look at the lastest episode (27), juggling, bouncy, silly in the first half and then emotional depth in the second. Well, that's a 3-gatsu's tone we pretty come to expect now
SuperMario
@Kaiser: ANYONE DARE TO MAKE MY HINA CRIES WILL HAVE TO PAY. I share the exact same sentiment with Rei
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will say this...it is...an un-evenly paced series...but always jolts you before you get too bored with it.
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Featured Posts

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