Posted by psgels on 2 November 2013 with categories: Kill La Kill

The recent discussion on fanservice has gotten me thinking a bit, especially after I found this infographic about Kill la Kill. It’s true that the fanservice in Yozakura Quartet is just bad and distracts from what makes the show good or interesting, and the fanservice in Kill la Kill is much better because it objectifies everyone, and it has a reason behind it, and the argument you often hear is “it’s awesome so who cares?” – but still I see no reason to bring some more nuance in the discussion.

I mean, reason or not: Kill la Kill cashes in on the popular female empowerment trope. A woman kicks ass while dressed in skimpy clothing. Alone, this would be fine, but with how often this is done, it’s hinted that it’s almost a requirement that if you want to kick ass, you need to show some too. The good shows indeed build all sorts of symbolism around it, but does that make it right? Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends. Does having fanservice alone ruin a character? Nah. It’s just one part of a show. But the problem is that everyone reacts to it in a different way: for some people it weighs more heavily than others. And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.

But I do think that Kill la Kill is among Hiroyuki Imaishi’s best attempts at this kind of nuance. I mean, Gurren Lagann was basically a sausage fest (the most badass woman: Yoko, who both fits the badass female character to a T and pretty much got a short end of the character development stick), and Panty and Stocking WAS a series that was partially based on making fun of female stereotypes. This show finally feels balanced, and it’s really enjoyable because of it. This episode was no exception by the way.

The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men. Hajime no Ippo currently is a good example of taking that a bit far, with all of the current penis jokes and all. But also the series that go out of their way to make their characters bishies hereby alienate most of the male population just because they have nothing to watch it for. The truly good shoujo series have guys who are good looking, but who can appeal to everyone.
Rating: 5.5/8 (Great)

53 Responses

  1. martin says:

    nice study on imaishi making fun of stereotypes. 2 more shows are worth mentioning, re:cutie honey ep 1 and magical shopping arcade abenobashi ep 3 + 12. he directed these single episodes and i got the sense he was making fun of his own subject matter by simply taking it over the top. he took the ecchi genre over the top in cutie honey and in abenobashi it was the lolicon fetishes that are so prevalent in anime/japan.

    maybe i could be wrong and say imaishi is just one really immature and insensitive director. even still he is a director better than most at being immature and insensitive.

    this episode was hella enjoyable but it did have a moment that made me uncomfortable. when that dude kicked matoi in the gut and struck her hard in the head even after she was powerless and on the ground is some really sensitive imagery.

  2. AidanAK47 says:

    I always thought of the skimpy outfits female superheroes wear were a kind of tactic. When you think about it the majority of there opponents will be men. And any man will hesitate to attack a half naked women. That hesitation was a great advantage.
    The fanservice in Kill la kill does feel like it has a point. Plus it funny that there’s not just male fanservice but female fanservice. I mean how many guys have been stripped in this show? That said I think the female empowerment image you link is looking a bit too deeply into it.

  3. TheUltimateReaper says:

    Jesus Christ that link. People seriously go through lengths to justify their own idiotic conceptions on sexuality, not to mention just how much the issue is driven about women. Kill la Kill is fucking awesome, and other than a few metaphors or whatever about clothes, and casting off shame, and nudism and whatever I don’t see any reason to really over analyze like I’ve seen people do.

    “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.” It might a be bread and butter way of looking at things but this is what I gather as any messages, and I like it, I think it’s great, I think that’s positive, but people still can’t get over their fanservice gripe.

    Some service is bad, some good, and some I don’t think really matters. I like Kill la Kill through and through, I like the Kamui, I like the crazy powers, I like the outfits, and I like the teacher who is always trying to take off his shirt.

    • jonas says:

      Because cartoons are for kids, and people need some justification to keep watching them. The empowerment thing isn´t even subtext.

      • TheUltimateReaper says:

        >Calling anime a cartoon
        >for kids
        >Brojito a lemon and tomato are both fruits but I wouldn’t put a tomato in a fruit cake.
        >Multiple target demographics in the industry, youngins are just more popular

        People are just stupid.

      • AidanAK47 says:

        “Because cartoons are for kids..”

        Couldn’t even finish a sentence without failing miserably. Even taking out the fact that you call a anime a cartoon there’s this complete misconception of cartoons being just for kids. Go ahead and watch the spawn animated series and try telling me that again.

      • jonas says:

        “people […] often play a card that allows them to pretend that their liking such a show does not reflect on their tastes at all.

        […]It’s not as if that we are truly expected to only watch and enjoy the consensus masterpieces. It’s just that we often behave as if we are expected to, and that we impose this on others”.

        • AidanAK47 says:

          Jonas, listen here. That image was not trying to justify a bad anime. It was trying to justify the fanservice in an anime. You are just way off base. There’s plenty more in this that they could attempt to justify with artistic merit but they tried to justify the fanservice because that’s what people are raging about and making them lump Kill la kill in the same pile of generic fanservice anime as queens blade or to love-ru. Which is wrong. The thing is that regardless of whether fanservice has a point or not, it’s still fanservice. But that does not make this a fanservice show because fanservice is not the main point of the show. It’s not out of some silly guilt.

          On that note.
          “90% of anime and manga is crud (Sturgeon’s Revelation); or, 80% of the good stuff one gets out anime and manga comes from 20% of the examples (Pareto’s Principle, ‘The Law of the Vital Few’); take your pick. Either way, many shows people like will fall under the ‘not excellent’ spectrum of quality.”

          That applies to every medium of entertainment. And I do mean every medium. Music, video games, film…90% of it is crap. It’s not something specific to anime and manga.
          And in many cases the person who likes a bad show genuinely believes it to be good. Because the enjoyment of the show tends to faze out the flaws in their eyes. You see that happen with good anime too. Any time someone talks about their favorite anime they tend to speak only of the positives of it and many times fail to say anything negative about it. No matter how good an anime is there’s always flaws, people just prefer not to see that.

          So to sum it up, your comment is still pretty stupid.

          • jonas says:

            Fanservice: Long, full shots of robots in mecha shows, sexual elements, long fight scenes, and violence can all be considered fan service as they are specifically aimed at pleasing the fans of any given show.

            Kill la Kill can´t be compared to Queen´s Blade, Freezing, or the wrestling show, because Kill la Kill is not boring as hell.

            I´m not denying my comment was stupid, but the fact that you can only understand Ghostlightning´s essay on a superficial level tells me we are on the same boat (hint:”I posit however, that guilt is a feeling from moral wrongness”).

          • AidanAK47 says:

            And anything can be considered anime regardless of whether it’s made in japan or not. Lets not get into semantics here. It tends to make things lose meaning.

            Just to make sure I reread it before posting this and I am sure I understood it fine. Basically he’s talking about how in an effort to avoid judgement or attack people who like an anime which is widely regarded by mass opinion as poor or terrible will tend to take a stance of claiming it has merit artistically or by labeling it as their guilty pleasure instead of simply admitting that they like a bad show. Not really rocket science.
            However I counter by saying that in many cases people actually truly believe a show is good and are not attempting to cover up a bad show because they like it. Because to them they don’t see these flaws other people speak of.

        • jonas says:

          Close, ghostlightning is talking about “ressentiment”, that is why he starts with this:

          “Guilt, yes guilt. Nobody wants to feel it. It implies one did something wrong, and is inferior to those who do otherwise.In anime and manga however (not to imply that it doesn’t occur elsewhere), taste is part of a social dominance game that’s played for high stakes: self-esteem in the internet.

          Sure it sounds silly, and it is. But people do operate under the paradigm of taste. They accuse each other of having bad taste, and praise creative works for being ‘tasteful,’ as if the benchmark or touchstone for such can be taken for granted”.

          Now compare with this: “According to Kierkegaard ressentiment occurs in a “reflective, passionless age”, in which the populace stifles creativity and passion in passionate individuals. Kierkegaard argues that individuals who do not conform to the masses are made scapegoats and objects of ridicule by the masses, in order to maintain status quo and to instill into the masses their own sense of superiority”.

          You can read more about it here: www2.fiu.edu/~filosof/Site/Current_Issue_files/1 Eva Melnikova.pdf

          • AidanAK47 says:

            Sigh…I hate it when people talk like this. It means I have to read the damn thing three times just to make sure that I got it. So lets break it down.

            Basically people tend to use a persons taste to judge them as a means of pumping up their own superiority complex and placing another individual lower than them.
            To which I say, well duh. That’s obvious.
            This in turn stifles creativity because in order to be good, works are forced to conform to popular opinion. An those who do not conform with popular opinion are ostracized.
            Which is a pretty good point. In attempts to make movies gain more money there are test screening which a random group of people could change the entire film. One particular example is with I am legend which was supposed to have a more depressing ending but was changed because the test audience wanted something more actiony.

            And if this isn’t what you are getting at then try to summarize it into a sentence. Because if your goal is to get the point across then the most effective way is to explain it a clearly and concisely as possible. Talking like this is just a pain in the ass for someone reading it and doesn’t show intelligence.
            Actually is this an attempt to try and pump your own superiority by attempting to prove that you are more intelligent than me? If so, I am afraid you only proved yourself a sore loser.

          • jonas says:

            Sorry, I thought you were interested in this kind of things, my bad.

          • AidanAK47 says:

            I don’t mind talking philosophy but the comments aren’t really the best place for it.
            This is an anime site mate, if you want to talk about philosophy try the shoutbox up there.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Well, honestly, I like those kind of things too, but I don’t think the infographic guys are wrong – in fact, I had reached the same exact conclusions myself, independently, on a simple moment of fridge logic.
      If you think about it, it makes sense. For us, each episode is just 20 minutes of fun, the whole series will amount to less than 12 hours total. For the creators, these are days, weeks, maybe months worth of work. I hardly see these smart writers (who have proven being smart and loving to have fun with what they do) just going for “oh, look, there’s going to be explosions and naked chicks fighting, this is going to be SO AWESOME”. The tongue-in-cheek sexual symbolism was present throughout Gurren Lagann, with its whole spiral thing; it didn’t necessarily mean something DEEP, but it was there as a guideline. It’s easier to write if you have a loose theme, because being forced to adhere to that will give you interesting associative ideas. I can totally see the thought process behind male sexuality -> spiral -> reproduction / DNA / evolution -> galaxies etc. That’s what led to Gurren Lagann. Panty and Stocking was also ripe with jabs at moe culture and fanservice – the tease being that the most ‘available’ girl, Panty, was also the absolute opposite of what anime usually considers attractive, that is a shy, modest girl who does not show any sexual desire. Sex is always present in Imaishi’s works, if only to make fun of those prudish anime who will hypocritically pretend girls don’t have sexual instincts and that the most daring thing a boy and his girlfriend with do in high school is a hand hold and a kiss but still sneak in panty shots and jiggling boobs at every moment. I don’t think it’s a true “empowerment” statement, I think he’s just trolling the average (especially Japanese) viewer.

    • Mazz says:

      “There is no reason to be ashamed.” “There is no reason to feel weak.” “Be comfortable in your own skin.”

      This. I agree this is the message of the show, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn’t change the fact that the fanservice annoys me, but I can accept it as long as the rest of the show is good. So far, I’m digging it.

  4. Lazy says:

    That’s fine and all, but what about the episode?

  5. unentschieden says:

    Do note that we didn´t see who took out the clubs. They ended up crucified with brooms and stuffed into the trash… who was on cleaning duty?

  6. ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

    @psgels I feel that the comments section of your last Yozakura Quartet review, and the shoutbox, influenced the direction of this Kill la Kill episode review. :D

  7. Malkuth says:

    Those revealing outfits and visual pronunciation of the differences between male and female physiology (erroneously labelled as fanservice) is actually part of the plot and is sad that viewers need bullet-point presentations to understand it. Not only in Kill La Kill but in Yozakura Quarter too as well as the Monogatari Series and so on. Unfortunately, none has made similar graphics for those though. It is very tiring to read complaint after complaint about pantyshots and gainaxing boobs, but nothing about unrealistic muscle-bound macho male MCs, shotas, and other stereotypes that sexually objectify guys through equally (if not more) reavealing animation. If nothing else this train of thought is the problem, since it diverts attention from both the anime and social implications. The only thing it achieves is to treat lightly the subject and this way quenching the guilt of pretentious feminists.

    • psgels psgels says:

      “The same goes for the other way around, of course. I mean I’m also tired of the series that objectify men.”

      ^ I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside.

      • Aegd says:

        I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows.

        I don’t think kill la kill is an example of that. On the contrary, kill la kill is a good example on how to use fanservice in a good way.

        High School of the Dead is a good example on how they ruined a otherwise decent shows with stupid fanservice that made no sense in the context.

        In kill la kill it’s basically the other way around. The fanservice makes sense most of the times and fit the setting and presentation of the story.

        There are also shows that are made with the pretense of having a story, but it only being a hollow shell to present adult situations. Shows like Queens Blade, that’s basically a watered down pornographic anime.

      • Malkuth says:

        >> I did talk about how series that objectify men are also bad. However I believe that those issues should be viewed separately. Both genders are unfairly objectified and no side of the argument should be brushed aside. <> I don’t think the fanservice is the problem. It’s how it’s used badly almost universally. In anime it basically comes down to fanservice being used to target a certain demographic and to dumb down shows. <<

        This is a common over-generalization based on lexical revisionism. Fanservice, like pron are used wrongly by most viewers limited to sexual innuendo related or not plot and character development. First of all it is not limited to sexual innuendo, and second it must always be unrelated to the story. With its original definition you are absolutely right, it degrades an anime by targeting a specific sales group. The problem is that when broadening the term viewers and most importantly reviewers build up a negative bias, and focus their thoughts on the mislabeled fanservice ignoring what they have actually watched.

    • ninjarealist ninjarealist says:

      This comment made me chuckle because I know I’m one of the people who has complained to you vociferously about the pantyshots in YQ (on ASuki). Oh how interconnected is the anime blogosphere.

      But yeah, sorry for tiring you out, Malkuth. :3

      • Malkuth says:

        Don’t worry, at least you can discuss your opinion. Most of the time in AS/MAL/AniDB (but more often bloggers) just complaint about female outfits and/or mannerism, because they sexually objectify them, totally missing what is going on.

  8. Spike says:

    People sometimes get objectification and celebration mixed up because they are focusing on the medium (anime) and not the work itself. Gurren Lagaan’s Kamina was a celebration of GAR and Matoi is an attempt at the polar opposite.

    It’s also a whole lot different from
    Female Character A: How’s your day going?
    Female Character B: It’s going pretty well *insert pantry shot* What’s for lunch?
    Female Character A: *insert sexy pose* Just eating some ramen
    Female Character C: *running into frame with Boobs bouncing* (extra detail given to motion) Hiiiiiiii Guuuuuuiiseeeee!
    Female Character A: *while groping Female Character C* OH YOU’VE GOTTEN BIGGER!!!
    ETC ETC ETC

    Wow I just wrote an episode that would sell 8k Blurays easily.

    • AidanAK47 says:

      You forgot about the girl walking in eating banana/lolipop suggestively.

    • Gan_HOPE326 says:

      Add in a cute mascot character, an incompetent bland male lead, and put the girls into a school club that does nothing of what’s supposed to do, and you got a best seller right there, sir.

  9. Juno says:

    lol What happened to the episode review? XD

    On the topic in general, I find this political/social cartoon somewhat relevant: http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6e259VXFI1rt8sgdo1_500.jpg

    I think here, it’s a combination of things many guys like to see on girls, and a possible concept of liberating one’s self from social constraints. Especially in Japan, where showing skin is STILL considered bad by social standards. It’s still “fanservice,” but it’s done in a way that supposedly makes it okay to a lot of the audience. That said, it was obviously targeted far more toward the male demographic, no matter who ends up liking it in the end. I definitely see a lot more females enjoying it on this side of the Pacific than in Japan, since female sexualization is starting to be embraced by a lot of females here, who take it with a sense of pride, rather than as an insult.

    On a personal level, though, I still can’t help rolling my eyes. The fanservice is a little too over the top, even if it’s tongue-in-cheek. I still enjoy the show immensely, including the animation and transformation scenes and whatever. But still, this kind of fanservice is always a slight turn-off to me, so to each their own. =P

  10. Jalapeno Bagel says:

    “And in my personal experience, the best shows are the ones that don’t care about the shounen or shoujo label, but are just catered to create a good story for everyone.”

    As long as we’re off-topic from the show, I’ll just say my two cents on this. It’s hard to create any story (let alone a good one) that caters to everyone without knowing what everyone wants. That kind of requires you to care about the genre label and conventions (of course, if it’s by complete coincidence, then you’re a happy prodigy). I don’t know if you’ll agree, but I argue that the best shows are the ones that do what they think is best for the audience they’re aiming for. Like you said, everyone reacts differently to fanservice, but it’s not just limited to that. If you have little hope of satisfying everyone, then might as well focus on satisfying who you want to satisfy.

    I think critical discussion of anime like this frequently goes off on the wrong things: aka, it’s akin to expecting a professional basketball player to have better soccer skills because it’s more well-rounded.

  11. Saitoq says:

    “Personally, I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.”
    I agree with this. Although I think the reason for why they do this is because that’s how it often works in the real world. If a female wants to be a successful actress for example, in most cases she has to show off quite a lot of cleavage to get there, regardless of how good she is. It’s commentary on what girls very often have to do to survive.
    So what a lot of women do is embracing it, they take charge of their own sex appeal and does it for themselves, if someone enjoys the view, good for them, but overall they do it for themselves. In this show that would be Satsuki’s whole attitude about wearing the kamui.
    I hope as the show goes on Ryuko will become good enough to kick ass even without the kamui, but for now it’s necessary for her to wear it if she wants to even stand a chance.

  12. mulligan says:

    Fanservice discussion aside, I thought this was the best looking episode so far of the five. It’s a relief for me eyeballs not to have manic action or an overcrowded shot composition every ep. Unapologetic craziness is what this series is good at, but great colour design, shot composition and sequence storyboarding can’t hurt.

    It’s early days but I’ve got a feeling that Trigger is almost treating this series almost like an “episodic showreel” of sorts, with each episode showing off a different trick every time. Not a bad way to kick things off for a new studio doing their own original content.

  13. Hogart says:

    I think that there are enough hints that the fanservice isn’t just for cheap thrills and comedy (though they clearly want to have their cake and eat it too). Whether they capitalize on any of the themes they’re toying with remains to be seen, but at least so far the fanservice isn’t much worse for wear than it was in a show like Fujiko Mine.

    I think people are a bit too sensitive about these things anyway. I mean I despise fanservice for fanservice’s sake. It’s a bit insulting unless the entire point of the show is titillation. But I feel that allowing shows to experiment with these kinds of uncomfortable sexual themes is the only way we’ll get over ourselves as a race.

    In short, at least they’re getting us to talk about these things a bit more seriously, and all we’re still watching their dumb hot-blooded highschool anime.

  14. Autumn Season 2013 Preview says:

    I thought 5.5/8 means excellent

  15. kero says:

    Speaking of fanservice, were there any guys who were able to see past the fanservice to watch Free?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, I watched Free. My wife gave up on it, but I found the time to watch the last few eps after that.

      • kero says:

        What did you think of the story, and of the fan service? Do you think it would put people off watching an anime even if it was a good one?

        • Hogart says:

          It was a pretty basic and average club anime, really. Nothing special aside from the fanservice and a bit of the usual KyoAni animation budget.

          The only thing other than the novelty of the fanservice that made it worth the watch was some of the attention to detail for the swimming club aspects. But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.

          The fanservice wasn’t so much a problem as it was frankly the only real draw the anime had going for it, because KyoAni wasn’t that serious about the premise otherwise. I give it a pass because it provides me with a handy reality check for boys who try to tell me girls shouldn’t mind the fanservice in their anime.

          • kero says:

            “But unless you’re “A Day Without Me” on Gar Gar Stegosaurus, that’s probably not enough.”

            ???

            .

        • Hogart says:

          http://gargarstegosaurus.wordpress.com/2013/10/13/i-suppose-this-is-a-review-of-free/

          They were on a swimming club, so they were really into that aspect of Free. I was on a swim team when I was a kid, but that was probably too early in my life for me to really go on a nostalgia binge with Free.

          • kero says:

            ahhh. I get that.

            well sort of. I got into (watching) basketball because of slam dunk, and now I’m pretty much only watching Kuroko no Basuke, because there’s basketball in it.

  16. Jo says:

    I’m gonna say that I am enjoying this show, it’s got great energy and direction and its pretty creative as well, but can I just say something?

    I think you guys are viewing the way the issues surrounding the fanservice in show in a way thats too simplistic. For starters, the female fanservice and male fanservice is not even on the same level because not only does male fanservice happen less, they’re always shown as taking their clothes/ posing for the audience of their OWN accord, while for the girls in Ryuko’s case she constantly looks uncomfortable and unhappy in Senketsu, not to mention the visible ogling from all sides which is absent when male fanservice happens AND the slightly rapey undertones from earlier eps regarding Senketsu. Even when she stops feeling that way it is more about acceptance for Satsuki and Ryuko than anything else, that they HAVE to wear the things they might not want to to achieve what they need to, and damn everyone else who thinks lowly of them for that.

    While this is more than most anime would do regarding fanservice in their own show, does no one feel that this is also inadequate? Can an issue like that which plagues societal attitudes towards young girls today and contributes to victim blaming for things like rape really be explained away by such a simple thing?

    I know this show is not trying to blow our minds with any philosophical debate regarding sexism/feminism or whatevs, but is it wrong to want just some more sensitivity if they’re going to breach the topic anyways?

    • Hogart says:

      Yeah, it might be a bit to ask, it all depends on what their creative goals are and where they decide to go with the series. I think we’ll need to wait at least a few more episodes before we know for sure, because they may have chosen a Gurren Lagann sense of style because they’re aiming for a Gurren Lagann type of twist. Who knows?

      Besides, Studio Trigger is hardly well-established. It’s not like they could just randomly afford to take all the risks in the world, especially if you consider how safe and stale most of the anime the major studios create are. Just being different and taking a risk is impressive enough if they pull it off, so I’d rather be supportive even if they don’t change the world and end up making another, inferior Gurren Lagann.

  17. DmonHiro says:

    I am calling it now:
    1. Mako’s antics are all fake.
    2. She’s either going to betray, or she’s completely broken inside.

  18. RABUJOI says:

    1. Great find on the infographic; it’s a very elegant, eloquent exegesis of Kill la KIll so far.

    2. Like all art, for me the best anime are the ones I and others have the most to say about. This means even an unspeakable horrible anime that spurs elevated conversation (though a real life example escapes me) is “better” than a boring anime about which nothing need be said or drawn from it. Whatever its controversies, KLK is evoking discussion with levels of nuance, which is good.

    3. It’s not just that the fanservie in YQ is bad and a waste of time, it’s that there’s no reason for it to exist beyond titilating a portion of the audience, which may well be the majority, but is still unnecessary. You can say lots about the fanservice in KLK, but you can’t say much of anything about Nanami Ao flashing her shimapan or Nurse Juri stripping off her uniform to reveal a bikini.

    4. YQ itself knows that its fanservice is useless, to the point where it’s including it for “compliance purposes”, or possibly even as tongue-in-cheek. The fanservice is a resolute afterthought, inserted in places where its absense wouldn’t necessarily be missed. Fanservice is made to be crucial to the themes of KLK, but it’s simply tacked-on and irrelevant to the themes of YQ.

    5. It’s telling that the most prominent female character – Hime – shows the least amount of skin; in fact, she’s downright covered up most of the time. Unlike the women in KLK, her gender and sexuality play little or no role in her development as a character. Rather, she has had to work hard since rising to the mayorship as a young child to gain the trust, respect, and love of the townsfolk, most of whom are her elders.

  19. Sword Testing Cliff says:

    I still prefer watching strong female characters who can just be empowered because of who they are, and don’t follow the cosmetic trends.

    “Balsa” “Torogai” “Faye” “that chick from the 12 kingdoms(Yoko I think). . .actually a vast majority o fthe women from that show” “Probably ALL the female characters from LOGH” “main character from Psycho pass”
    And now that I think more about it, actually a lot of the women from Moribito were written extreemly well. I think that frankly that show should be common viewing for new writers on how to portray women.

    99.999999% of writers don’t know how to write women, period. It’s not their fault either. How women are as people, is VERY different than how many people in the “female empowerment” demographic Want to see women in media. Writers, studios, directors, company chairs know this. Which is why most writters couldn’t be bothered to actually acurately portray female characters in media (yes this happens in western tv a lot too)

    Pretty much the prerequisite for “female character” = man with tits & no penis, and looks pleasing to the male demographic to get more sales”

    Because that’s pretty much how they act/portrayed.

    There are a few execptions and all the ones I can think of off the top of my head that I’ve seen.

    Pretty much nowdays, how much money you make (especially as an anime) is pretty dependant on how sexual/female powery(there’s a HUGE Cuckholdery demographic among the male population of anime watchers)
    the main female characters are, OR how “moe” they are (O HAI THAR K-ON. . .and your 238423945523 clones)

    That’s just the way it is now and the way its gonna be for a while.

    THIS show gets away with that because everything is just way over the top, that its pretty much making fun of all of that. (while cashing in at the same time.)When you go over the top, you pretty much become a parody and all that “Sexism” seriousness doesn’t apply. Personalyl I think people are thinking way too much about it, Although on the other hand the show is pointing out how rediculous the industry is with writers pretty much being bad at writing women/overly pandering to different demogrpahics, rather than just making something. . .GOOD (Hello breaking bad, game of thrones.)

  20. Faruk says:

    Err you didnt review the episode.

  21. Taiga says:

    So.. what was the episode about?

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AidanAK47
I went and read Double Arts. This really was a great manga with tons of potentail and truly didn't deserve the axe. It's so depressing that this was cut off so soon and the author went on to make the most generic Harem ever Nisekoi, and that got over 200 chapters.
Lenlo
All of the important dance scenes for Yuri were fantastic, its just some minor one off characters and some reused ones that were an issue, so no they are better than the CGI
Anonymous1190387
Is it worse than those CGI dance scenes in some anime?
AidanAK47
@Puran, It is pretty surprising how well that story turns out. I say IG might do the job even if there animation isn't the most consistent. The one thing I am worried about is those necks though. In the PV those things were ridiculously long.
Puran
Fair enough, recycling the animation was bad, agreed. But the animation itself was really good.
Lenlo
See, I found the repeated dances in Yuri one of the worse parts. Alot of it was recycled animation and certain characters were obviously rushed/not done. Some were amazing, cause they took their time, but others looked terrible.
Puran
I kinda wish Mappa was doing the anime though. Yuri on Ice had really nicely animated dances (and was more or less the only actually good quality of that show :P )
Puran
Reading the Ballroom e Youkoso manga has made me really excited about the Anime.
Kaiser_Eoghan
@Aidan: I'm particularly turned off by bully/bullying cliches these days. I've only read the first two volumes to see how awful she was but I ended up simply losing track of the series and stopped reading.
Kaiser_Eoghan
@Mario: Actually that has changed, I had to pick a different day to see it given changes in schedule, I've booked it for NEXT Wednesday now. I've watched Akira about four times.
AidanAK47
Oh, Rising of the Shield Hero is getting an anime adaption. Hmmm...honestly after finishing the series and looking over it as a whole I am not sure I even want that. Plus seeing Bitch Animated...would fill me with rage.
SuperMario
I intend to re-watch Akira soon, probably this weekend. It has been almost 10 years since my first watch and now I don't remember much about that one. Thought it was intriguing and complex but not as acclaimed as people hyped it to be (I'll pick Ghost in the Shell anytime). Wonder how I'd feel now after re-watching it.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I remember you mentioned that you were going to watch In this Corner of the World today right? How was the movie Kaiser?
Lenlo
Oh cool, food wars is getting a 3rd season
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ballroom youkoso appears to be leading the polls.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Fumiko is a female mangaka yes. Also I found bokura no hentai worth reading.
SuperMario
yep, I finished that manga too and I have conflicted feeling about it. Yuri(!) part and fanservice are to blatant but they have a purpose. This mangaka (not sure but I think she's a girl) has some unique voice.
AidanAK47
....well I skimmed that manga. And it was weird
SuperMario
By all appearances,Sakura is normal,albeit sheltered junior high school girl who enjoy talking about love and walking home from school together.However,they also happen to inhabit a strange and supernatural world populated by mysterious,gigantic beings and unusual plant and animal life.Amid their peaceful lives,Sakura becomes very interested in something only alluded to exist in old books: dicks
SuperMario
Here's a synopsis of other manga from the same author, I think you'll have a better idea of his theme -
Sakura no Sono
AidanAK47
Pretty much what Masky said. I am not really praising it. Anyway I plan to read one or two more chapters to see where it's going. But if it's going in the direction I think it's going then I am dropping this one fast.
Kaiser_Eoghan
There is of course the underlying concern that it will go a very ugly route with that development or it could become edgy/horribly minipulative, but for now it is as mario said, a hook.
SuperMario
Well. overall I don't dislike what I read there. It has good hook and I'm intrigued to know more what the hell will happen. Good set-up for me. I'm in
SuperMario
@Masky: it's fine Masky, since I will chec itk out any way and see it for myself ^^
Masky
So since you guys started being interested, I checked it out and uh.. Yeah, not reading. I think ye guys misunderstood Aidans warnings since that was just fucked up and not in the interesting way.
Lenlo
@Aidan: Berserk will never again go more than 3-4 months without a hiatus.
SuperMario
Hmmm, that manga Cutie Mutie sounds good to me. I might check it out later today
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: But had you not alluded to that scene, I may have seen the cover of that manga and skipped over it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: I had a feeling, sort of, sad, I am intrigued to read more.
AidanAK47
Hyping and warning are not the same thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well with Aidan hyping up the horrors of cutie mutie I may as well glance at it to see what he' on about.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are three manga with the name rec.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I am familiar with the artist for cutie mutie, she did that manga about the three kids dealing with gender/orientation issues.
AidanAK47
Oh look Berserk is on Haitus again....
.....the sad thing is that it comes as expected now.
AidanAK47
For reference the two I read were Cutie Mutie and Rec. Be warned, the first one goes to a rather uncomfortable level.
AidanAK47
@Masky, Read two manga. One started lighthearted and then went to really dark territory. The other one looks like it's about a really dark subject but turned out to be something more lighthearted.
AidanAK47
@Mario, Alright. Tested it now so it such be fixed. Try again.
Masky
@Aidan: Huh? What you read that turned dark/didn't turn dark? .-.
SuperMario
"too many answers selected for question 1! only 3 answers allowed!"
SuperMario
@Aidan: I still have the same issues. Weird
AidanAK47
@Mario, Wasn't my intent. Try it now and you should be able to pick as many as you want.
SuperMario
@Aidan: I'm not allowed to vote more than 3 votes. Is it your intention Aidan?
AidanAK47
Well that was weird. I read something that looked innocent but turned out to be really dark. Then something that looked really dark only to become innocent.
Masky
Yeah, nothing that interests me I see :D Like my strongest reaction to season preview was "Someone made isekai with smartphone? Really? REALLY? Thats best idea you had"
Masky
Ah Knighs and Magic, found that manga. It was boring enough for me to forget its name. Also besides being boring, I kinda find MC unlikeable since their only personality is that they like mechas and were a programmer before renicarnating as short bishie kid
Masky
Woo, time to vote stuff
SuperMario
@Kaiser: that movie In this Corner just getting more and more acclaimed huh? Thou I think it'a a type of movie that if you have high expectation for it you will likely be disappointed. It works best as a sleeper hit
SuperMario
As for cute monster girls, most of the time I don't find them cute at all. I know I'm being racist, but...
SuperMario
@Lenlo: I'm guilty with that cute girls genre, as i enjoyed K-On tremedously for example. Or If I have more time I'd follow Hinako Note this season ^^
Kaiser-Eoghan
They don't always adapt all that well or work as well outside of manga format, especially 4-komas.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*three
Kaiser-Eoghan
The only two of any interest were hidamari sketch, azumanga daioh and yuru yuri and that was largely down to being in the mood for them a few years ago.
Lenlo
@Mario: Personally, I have 0 interest in this Monster girls doing cute things subgenre, just like I have very little interest in the cute girls doing cute things major genre.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: As it turns out I DID read in this corner of the world. I'll also be seeing it next thursday.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: at this moment I'm very skeptical with the whole Monster girls doing cute girl subgenre, so I'm approachig Centaur with a caution. Of course, it all depends on how I feel after the first episode
SuperMario
@Kaiser: Happy End isn't as bleak aa his other works. But it's certainly Hanake's films, as it explores many of his favorite themes: the voyeurist of camera in his Benny's video, the detachment to the world and the underlying violence. Not his best thou but it's still very good
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think I'd be up for watching jigoku shojo, its been a long time since I watched the original two seasons and this one won't be as long, so it won't get as repetitive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I voted centaur no nanami on the poll, think Mario could cover it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: How did did you get on with Happy end? I heard its like a mix of his best works. Is it as dark and depressing?
Kaiser-Eoghan
I have vague memories of in the corner of the worlds manga, unless I'm mixing it up with something else.
SuperMario
Some news, Lu Over the Wall won the best prize at this year's Annecy (the 1st anime won the award since 1995's Pom Poko), with In the Corner of the World took the Jury Prize. Quite a good showing for anime this year.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Hello.
SuperMario
Really, still no vote for Kakegurui?? I thought it would take the top poll for sure
SuperMario
That 18if, even the poster doesn't make much sense, but it looks dazzling ^^
Lenlo
go-go licensed products!
SuperMario
@Lenlo: and Madhouse is the studio behind that Marvel rip-off. Are they really going that low for profits?
Lenlo
Lookin forward to Kakeguri next season, but thats the only thing thats really caught my eye
Lenlo
Well, you have to watch Marvel next season right?
AidanAK47
And done. I swear these previews take a lot out of me.
AidanAK47
Almost done....almost done...
KT
Attack of Titan, ended ok. But man the production values had gone down.

Virgin Soul had a okish episde

Re:Creators continues to rock for me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I liked the 70s version ending, it was mean spirited =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: The original used its one room location quite well and dim lighting in parts, very closed in/claustrophobic.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: just finished the Beguiled and it was much better than I expected. Like, I didn't expect it to be that well shot. The guy was put in a passive role than active here, which help the theme imo. Also, the ending admitedly isn't for everyone but I liked it just fine
SuperMario
@Kaiser: using a black girl? The girls in this one are all white :(
AidanAK47
Sato in Re:Creators isn't doing himself any favors is he? Honestly the more I learn about him, the less likable he becomes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
It was a good film though, one of scarjos better moments.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: As for Sofia, I'm only familiar with lost in translation, which I haven't seen since it originally came out.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Everyone goes on about Francis' for the Godfather, the conversation is massively underated and apocalypse now is better, but it has to be the theatrical cut.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I guess it was probably seen as progressive in its day by way of using the black girl.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Very very cynically 70s of course.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Actually just happened to finish it there, I felt it stood out for its somewhat successful gothic feel and aesthetic and Eastwood's performance which shows how well he can command the audiences attention even when he isn't shooting people. Kind of liked how it got slightly grisly later on. It makes a small effort in giving one line backstories .
SuperMario
@Kaiser: the original movie isn't that well-received. It's more like an exotica film where the main guy (Clint Eastwood) hooks up girls of all ages. This one I heard has a good spin on feminist angle. I'm sure is intrigued but Sofia Coppola's filmography has been mixed for me
Kaiser-Eoghan
....I doubt any one has ever heard of this....I know I didn't, I haven't read it either but I came across some weird old Blacksploitation manga, probably from the 90s, Blast knuckle or something...
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Still remaking the beguiled might be good, we need more modern westerns.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I suppose I can busy myself with the original 70s version of beguiled. At the moment I've been focusing on old Japanese films, they had such a good film industry, it makes it hurt so much more now knowing that all they do now is shit live action adaptations.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: gonna be a long day for me with the screenings of The Beguiled, Wind River, The Other Side of Hope and Happy End
Kaiser-Eoghan
Now I need to re-watch 08th ms team.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I watched 4 hours straight of Gundam the origin, hit me with a hard punch of nostalgia, actually seeing his backstory rather than hearing about it is a good thing, I enjoyed the action scenes, it was high-melodrama but well used and more Char is always a good thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think I'll just put Kado on hold for now and see whats being said about future episodes of it, I'm too unsure of it being worth it or not at the moment.
Vonter
I want to comment on a humble indie game called Sakuna of Rice and Ruin. Is a simple hack and slash similar to Muramasa and Dust: Elysian Trail. The game has a scarf mechanic that is very fun to use to evade attacks and throwing stuff. It kind of reminded me of those Mickey games from the Snes and the visuals reminded me of Pocky and Rocky. Its a game to play on a sunday, simple, fun and relaxing.
Vonter
From the stuff I played Dragon Ball FigtherZ seems legit at capturing the speed of the battle and feel of the action.
Vonter
Back from E3. Nintendo is still my main jam. The Rabbids game seems better than I think anyone could imagine. Odyssey seems like a good time. Xenoblade and Metroid 2 remake look like hype.
KT
On Gundam OG, the new Origin Manga, and the movies based on it are very good. Recommended.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I remember reading the first chapter of that manga, but it was a long time ago and the updates were slow.
AidanAK47
A manga about Ballroom dancing? Yeah there's no way I am into this.
(Starts reading)
(Reads ten chapters)
Crap...I am into this.
Anonymous1166615
Feel I need to re-visit gundam again through 08th MS team, unicorn and Origin as I'd enjoyed the 70s series, its sequel and chars counterattack. Seed turned me off the franchise for ridiculously long and 00s movie and second season wern't as good as the first .
Anonymous1166615
Looks like I have another Yuasa work to look forward to, he's doing his own take off on Nagai's devilman , hopefully he can reign in Valvraves writer though.
Masky
*first manga in couple last weeks I've seen
Masky
Da fuq. Found manga called Kemono Jihen, but it somehow already has tv tropes page(I tend to check randomly whether works have tv tropes page to see how notable they are) O_o I mean this is first manga with 1-3 chapters that has that, so I guess author is really popular or something in some circles?
Lenlo
Huh. Guess they figured out rewriting a story for Re:Creators.
Masky
Ya know, even if i hadn't heard that Suka Suka is based on one of more tragic light novels, the death flags, all of the death flags :D
HelghastKillzone
I'm a patron of someone who is writing mass effect fanfiction at 2 million+ words. It combines games, writing and fan creativity. So there is that....
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, while I listened to some Lovecraft audiobooked, I felt as if I was copping out by listening instead of reading.
Kaiser-Eoghan
A horror manga often works well episodically in a short story format.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Had a flick through Shibito, of what I read I liked how ridiculously camp and gleefully, proudfully nutso it was combined with the silliness of the violence. While not my favourite chapter, the one about the actress stood out for me because she was clearly a reference to Setsuko Hara, one of Japans most famous actresses lol
AidanAK47
I try out a number of things from time to time. Books, movies, music, comics and the like. But I always come back to anime.
AidanAK47
I have dabbled in quite a few mediums myself. My recent experiment is audiobooks which I am currently using to get through Moby Dick. And Jesus H Christ is this book padded to hell and back. It may be well written but it is an awful story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But what this film venture has shown me is that while I've gotten much out of it, it shows just how STRONGER the connection I have to anime/manga is.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And definately, I don't get the "people focus on only one media thing". One of the reasons I started branching out was because I felt "Fuck, I'm in my 30s and I've neglected a whole medium by being too focused on cartoons"
Kaiser-Eoghan
The sign you're at something too long is when the suspense of waiting for the next part to come out isn't there or when you find yourself not picking up on whats going on!
Kaiser-Eoghan
Manga/visual novels/anime I've noticed especially now are much much easier to stay awake during when you're wrecked tired.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: And to be honest, I've gotten busier and more tired lately, getting home on a weekday later after a new job, I'm not alert enough to watch art films, just started leaving them till the weekend.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: I know exactly what you mean. That is one of the reason why I like to mix up what I watch: sometimes books, other time manga and even music to get me away from burning out from 1 medium
Kaiser-Eoghan
*eventually get back
Kaiser-Eoghan
The short of that is, I think a good scale back with ANY hobby is a good thing because it can feel special all over again when you get back on it more mainly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But now that after three years of mainly focusing on films moreso than anime/manga as much, because I'm now incredibly burnt out from watching films 4 times a day, I feel now I can watch ANY anime or read any manga and get that fresh feeling/some of that old passion back.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Remember that feeling you got when you first really got into anime/manga and pretty much excitedly/panic watched EVERYTHING and almost everything felt great? I've been thinking how a few years back now, I sort of re-lived that feeling again...however for films.
AidanAK47
(Finished watching SukaSuka 10)
Awwww...that was a sweet episode end....
.....
.....They are all gonna die.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Kids off school pressumably in Japan with more time to watch stuff and more shows.
AidanAK47
God why is there so many anime during the summer season.
AidanAK47
Of course there are the really obvious recommendations of Grand Blue and Kaguya wants to be confessed to.
AidanAK47
I say the only other recommendations I got are Jagaaaaaan, Maou no Hisho, Ore wo Suki Nano wa Omae Dake ka yo and Yuuutsu-kun to Succubus-san. Though I still think Shibito no Koe o Kiku ga Yoi would be up your alley.
Kaiser-Eoghan
By all means keep posting random manga you've all come across, I will read them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I thought route end did a good job on the protagonist's feelings regarding his mothers death.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Though my interest in Route is largely due to it was the most lurid of the selection.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt route end holds the most interest of that selection of recommendations, although before reading it I thought it would be an episodic manga, similar to a series called death sweeper.
Lenlo
@K-Off, well I think both the manga got handed down to the assistant, and the anime got handed down as well. The original author/director for both arnt working on Boruto
K-Off
@Lenlo Probably, haven't checked. But the manga and anime are completely different so I don't know.
AidanAK47
The Streisand effect in full force.
SuperMario
*Now the media...
SuperMario
No the media storms over it and eventually want to check out this film. It has gain more publicity after this shameless incident
SuperMario
oh god, really? Chinese government tried their best to force Annecy (Animation film Fest) to remove a Chinese animated film name Have A Nice Day from screening there because of its "sensitive content"
AidanAK47
Still think Sawano needs to lay off the vocals. It can get really distracting in Re:Creators.
KT
oh my the RE:Creators OST is all I wanted.
Lenlo
Well, Boruto isnt being run by the original manga author is it? I thought he handed the series off after Naruto to his chief assistant.
K-Off
The contrast between wanting to do something different yet using the same character traits is just too jarring.
K-Off
Gave Boruto a shot, and while it isn't bad, it's so detached from the original series that it might as well have been unrelated. I appreciate that the plot is different, but the modern setting, and lack of any clear character motivations (for now) makes it such a chore to watch. If they were going for something different, why did they use the same character designs and archetypes?
SuperMario
Sorry guys for the delay of Eccentric Family post, just can't bring myself to finish the post. Not that many of you following the show but Yeah, I will plget it done later today. Also, hell yeah for Pluto. Urasawa is my God
SuperMario
@Aidan: I kinda imagine Isekai Shokudou would be like Time of Eve upon reading the synopsis. Like each week about some peculiar customers. Well, if they focus more on food, then... *heartbroken*
AidanAK47
Two Metroid Game announcements and an anime of Pluto.
Today was a good day.
Anonymous1161527
KT here:YES!
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: One of his better works, despite reading it twice I've forgotten too much as its been too long since reading it, good though as when I watch the anime the manga won't be as fresh in my mind.
Anonymous1161483
Urasawa's Pluto anime announced! Get hype! Looks like they're keeping designs faithful just like they did with Monster (at least judging from the poster)
AidanAK47
By the way Mario, that Isekai show you were interested in is basically food porn.
AidanAK47
Man that was a lot of procrastination. I haven't even written up that Little witch academia post yet...and then there's the preview.
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