Posted by SuperMario on 2 February 2018 with categories: After the Rain, Currently Watching:

NO. I don’t like this third wheel development at all. Obviously, this romance is going to meet heaps of obstacles along the way, but it’s better not this. Suddenly, a side character having a creepy treatment, force the plot moving forward right before the two having a date together? One thing that upset me is how Ameagari makes it pretty clear about the conduct of this character Kase. He’s anything but nice. Plain and simple. He’s manipulated and dirty and annoying. No, Ameagari. You don’t brute-force the plot to squeeze out some drama like this, and you don’t make a guy evil so that we have to root for the main duo, ever. But for what it takes, Ameagari succeeds on making me worried for Tachibana and her forced date. Although received a clear signal from Tachibana, this dude keeps on pestering her to extend the date, including forcefully grabs her hand and later kisses her. Dirty little bastard! He even goes so far to say that the romance between her and Kondou will never work. And by his behaviour I’m sure that this creep will do his best to make his claim true, whatever it takes. I’ll be honest that I don’t like this Kase dude as a character and as a role in this story. Such a pity but I consider this as Ameagari’s first major misstep so far.

That date also serves as a parallel to Kondou and Tachibana’s date, as it happens in the goddamn same place, with the same sequences: horror zombie movie first (anyone noticed the same man in suit in front of their row?), then a sip of coffee and later a walk on a bridge. Such repetitiveness is meant to highlight the differences in Tachibara’s mood and the contrast between two dates. When she’s with Kondou, a “downfall of mankind” type of film suddenly becomes entrancing, coffee feels sweeter (well, literally) and the outside background is bathed with such pink and dreamy color palette. The time feels longer (like it’s stopped) and the linger for those moments feel much stronger. Kondou, on the other hand, thinks that the date would bore her so fast (wrong!) and there is a beautiful moment when he is again taken back to his youth self with his first black coffee experience before realizing that he was the only middle-aged man with a young girl in the shop. It sure is the taste of bittersweet youth. Last week, his excuses had always been about the reception of other people and Tachibana’s own well-being, but this time it’s all about his own feeling: that he would feel uneasy seeing her youthfulness because he can’t stand the fact that he isn’t young anymore. Pretty neat development here.

This episode is light on rain, but fear not since there are a whole leg fetishes going on here. Ameagari is excellent of underlining small body movements to convey the mood of the characters and in this episode, the focus on legs not only tell you the temporary state of mind a character is in, but also the distance (or lack thereof) between Tachibana and certain characters, signifies their intimacy. Ameagari still has its chops for sensitive visual storytelling, especially the sequence on the bridge takes my breath away for its beauty and moody atmosphere, but at the same time I consider this episode my least favorite episode so far, given that it opens to another conflict that I’m not fond of. Remember Ameagari, the drama works best when it comes from the struggles within the characters themselves, not from some outside creepy force that tries to blackmail AND then spill out their romance to everyone.

7 Responses

  1. Hogart says:

    I don’t really get the impression that we have to worry about Kase becoming that kind of simple villain. He’s clearly a jerk, but if they’re hinting at anything it seems to be that his motivations aren’t “let’s just be a jerk” as much as “I hate how much of myself I see in this girl.” Given the themes in this series, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in the same situation she is (and they’re trolling us pretty well so far with the themes, so it’s right up their alley).

    • Evaluation says:

      I agree with you Hogart. He even said it: “I’m not trying to be mean”, he was truly only giving his opinion and the way he comes off could be attributed to loneliness and desperation. He got a leverage to squeeze Tachibana and went for it.

      That being said, I was afraid this would happen since ep1 – he was acting suspiciously (not with Tachibana, but Kondo – he was already a jerk then). SO yes, although I agree that he won’t be an issue for the relationship, he IS an issue for this series.

      The first half of this episode was painful to watch and for the wrong reasons – the crude handling of Kase’s character (not even real jerks wear smirks on dates, like come on!), his cruel behavior towards Tachibana, bordering with abuse and intimidation is far from the otherwise subtle and smooth presentation we get even later in the episode. I’ll take this as a hiccup of the source material, for now.

    • SuperMario SuperMario says:

      Well, I never really think of Kase’s role in that light, but it makes sense. What I don’t like is how the show clearly frames him as a douchebag in this episode. You don’t force a girl to go on a date with you, to grab her arm to the cafe, to even kiss… oh wait, that was how Tachibana treated Kondo as well, now that I think about it.

      • Hogart says:

        Well of course most people wouldn’t do that, but these kinds of people certainly do exist. And if we’re being honest, then Kase never really did much to Akira that she isn’t doing (or would have done) to Kondo. The difference is that Kase’s open about manipulating her, whereas she is being far more sly with Kondo.

        Also Kase’s been established as a “probable playboy” rather than “an innocent teen in love”, so of course we’re going to think the worst of him compared to her. But if you look past her big puppy dog eyes and bold statement to Kondo about her love vs society, why does she care whether Kase tells others about her silly little doodle (she asked him to keep a secret before he threatened her)?

        It seems she’s not as innocent as she lets on, or it at least finally realizing how she’s manipulating Kondo, since Kase openly did it to her. Would she have kissed Kondo if Kase hadn’t stolen a kiss on her cheek earlier? Is her pursuit of Kondo really any different than Kase’s “I’ll make you mine” image?

        Those subtle clues are (so far) what keeps this series from being a shlock dime-store romance. Whether they explore the themes more overtly or just dance around the issues, only time will tell. Unfortunately by then the series may lose most of the people who aren’t interested in seeing a realistic exploration of these issues that isn’t boiled down to an SNL sketch or after-school special.

  2. Evaluation says:

    Just like the ep, I’ll start on the negative:

    – Kase has his own issues I’m sure, but they pale in comparison with the stupidity of how the show injects his character into the Tachibana-Kondo dynamics – as an antagonistic force to scare us that Tachibana or her “pure” love would be sullied or taken away.

    – Obvious contrast is obvious. The parallels between Kase’s and Kondo’ date make no sense and don’t pass my lowest storytelling standards. It was mostly a waste of time, the movie scenes weren’t very meaningful and being featured twice – overstayed their welcome.

    – I think the director or whoever was aware of the issues here, but was/were hoping a good presentation will be enough to elevate the material. Nope. I’ve already been warned about some date thing, so I guess this is it.

    – How many times did we get to admire the girl’s nail polish? Also, that scene after her date arranging phone call, when she was jumping in joy – I’ll never get tired of it. I’m experiencing a mental meltdown.

    – As much as I hate Kase now, the way he tricked her into the kiss was clever and had certain honesty there. Tachibana’s repulsive reactions throughout were also – cute. I love this girl, she has the spunk. Those eyes!

    – Good voice acting on Kondo’s character. His stuttering with the d-d-dato was cute too.

    – Tachibana’s fantasizing on the train station gave me heart attack, when I realized she is only standing there, observing. I watch this realistic portrayal in melancholy.

    – Yep. Why would that guy watch the same stupid movie twice! Alone! And be surprised for the second time!

    – @SuperMario: Tachibana admits she was depressed. Good call last week! Just like me calling her out on “fixating” on things to get through it. These were obvious I guess, but I like the show is aware of these too! Even the characters are! Good.

    • Hogart says:

      >The parallels between Kase’s and Kondo’ date make no sense and don’t pass my lowest storytelling standards.

      The devil is in the details. If Kase hadn’t shown her what it was like to go on a date because someone manipulated you into it, would she have done things differently during her date with the manager? Her kiss fantasy implies that she probably would have, if Kase hadn’t shown her how it might feel to Kondo.

      The storytelling is just too subtle or vague about Akira’s state of mind, so it takes effort to look past all the red herrings (like the businessman watching the movie twice and big sparkly eyes) and see the more important signs about Akira. So I don’t blame anyone who just sees it as a useless “let’s make Akira and Kondo look better by contrasting them with a real piece of shit” tactic. Heck, it might even end up just being that, but the story definitely is hinting at more than that mundane intent.

      > I love this girl, she has the spunk. Those eyes!

      All the better to pull the wool over our eyes about how “innocent” she is, so we give her a pass for her own emotional manipulation of Kondo. After all, she’s just a lovestruck bird with a broken wing… she doesn’t know better, unlike that “playboy” or that “pathetic” manager. Except of course, that she clearly knows that it’s wrong to reveal her love for the manager, despite saying it doesn’t matter what society thinks. Otherwise she wouldn’t have been manipulated into a date herself over a silly doodle, would she?

      Hope they make good on that angle.

      • Evaluation says:

        Hm.

        I say, thinking that the first date was featured to show how Tachibana would change her behavior is stretching it. The first date already had several thematic threads running thought it, I find an existence of another (purposefully obscured) theme improbable, I’m willing to give you room for interpretation though as Tachibana’s eyes could in theory hide (anything, or,) more than her bubbly feelings. In the end, I think what you are suggesting is slightly outside of the show’s style.

        The two date’s situations are also dissimilar. The manipulation in Kase’s case is clear blackmail, while in Tachibana’s a mere persistence. Kondo has is very easy compared with her.

        I’m glad you or anyone else is reading into these ideas, but perhaps you are giving the show too much credit? It’s not that good! Right? Paradoxically, I feel like I still hold it in higher regard than you (forgive my presumption).

        Whether you are right or not, I find your angles (in)valuable, so feel free to continue with this exchange.

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Anonymous1835766
Kaiser-Eoghan - I think the closest might be Makishima Shogo in Psycho Pass. Just in the opposite sense, showing how flawed an absolutistic system is. Also a scene from that anime, that subverts the notion of how people are shocked by violence.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Moreso than the girls death obsession, I thought the stuff with the mother in the first chapter of yakedo has the potential to go in a more messed up way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But he fails miserably and no one learns from his crimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why can't there be a BENEVOLENT killer character that commits horrible acts solely to shock people and show how horrifying those acts are, out of the delusion that it will inspire a reflection and change in people to NOT, to NEVER do those things.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*higher
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe an abused character is a servant in a historical setting with a hierarchy, trapped in societal rules and defeats the obsession with the attacker and raises up against the class system/character of hire social standing that abused them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Perhaps the cannibal killer character in the story has abandonment, severe paranoia and lonliness issues and sees his crimes as taking people inside him so they'll never leave him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
of psychological depth instead?
Kaiser-Eoghan
For the willingness to throw messed up stuff into stories, I wouldn't mind seeing an analysis thrown in, doing a story about a cannibal character? How about instead of just a gore fest, get inside is head and ask, why does he do this? I hate Ntr and its used as a throwaway turn-on involving rape eroticism, but is there any any way that a story involving that could be framed with some sense
Kaiser-Eoghan
Back on to stuff like goblin slayer, they can take out the rape scenes I wouldn't miss them, although I find them less uncomfortable, BECAUSE they are shown as how wrong rape is, instead of say a doujin playing it up for titilation .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite all the talking up of tsunderes, I actually love kuuderes, in the end probably the biggest reason is for how flat chested they are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Slapstick violence always plays second to dry, dark, screwball or surreal humour.
Bokusen
Also, on tsunderes, me too. I can't stand people using physical violence on someone unless it's in self-defense, or a Fate-type scenario where they all know everyone is trying to kill everyone else. Random physical violence played up as comedy is the worst.
Bokusen
@Kaiser Ah, so it was referring to bondage. I was skimming through posts and must've missed that. Bondage still creeps me out a bit, but if it's a fetish thing I can at least understand the whole exaggerated gender roles thing.
AidanAK47
In regards to Tsunderes, yep that was a bad choice of words there Kaiser. But over time I have come to find Tsunderes more agavating. Tsunderes like Rin are fine but those that beat the crap out of the guy they like and are expected to be forgiven cause they get embarrassed can go straight to hell.
AidanAK47
Also who cares who Korra ends up with? She a goddamn horrible character. I hated her so much.
AidanAK47
Korra was a show that had love realistionships come out of nowhere(And not well written in general) but that one really was just pandering to the Korra/Asami shippers. Not sure where the hell that ship came from to begin with.
Lenlo
I agree Aidan, the love at the end of Korra came out of Left field really
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: It was inappropriate and I shouldn't have said it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Heck one of the reasons I prefer seeing another character with another character or a character simply on their own in a fetish situation is because I can distance myself from it and not feel like I'm touching anything/one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If anything I meant role reversal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I apologize, reading it back it sounds terrible, I was actually referring to bondage where the tsundere pretends to hate it initially but consents .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I should state clearly that that is merely a fantasy. The anger on both sides makes it easier because even if things became more physical or intimate it would feel more distant if the talking part was she and myself saying how much we hated it , despite actualily liking it.
Bokusen
"The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place." OK, reading that just creeped me out.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, well you like screwed up stuff so no surprise.
Try Yakedo Shoujo. Get the feeling you will like that one quite a bit.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Legend of Korra? There was no yuri in that one. No evidence whatsoever. They just had Korra and Asami walk into some light and then announced them gay over twitter. Honesty I didn't see it in the show itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Also was it you that recommended happy sugar life to me? That was a pretty good psychological horror manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Going back several messages, I kind of liked goblin slayer oddly.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Read Sakuranbo Syndrome.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: At the same time I really think more series like after the rain need to come out, showing more sensitive approaches.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nudity/sex just isn't used functionally well enough or dramatically as it should. Come on, give us a story about passionette characters, sensual/erotic rather than only porn. Or do a scums wish where miserable people are doing it because saaaaad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
kuuchuu is really one of those things I need to re-watch, I became so much more open to weirder shows in the past number of years than I would have been ages ago.
Anonymous1832169
I think my excuse in hentai, is that despair, and subjugation adds drama to a very simple thing. Though Dawn of the Silver Dragon may be the peak of objectification.
Anonymous1832214
Sure, np, though I must be off. Again, nice to chat casually. Been off forums for a while. Bye.
PS: thank you gift for anyone not familiar https://myanimelist.net/anime/6774/Kuuchuu_Buranko?q=kuuchuu
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lets talk about the spring 2018 anime season chart: http://anichart.net/spring-2018
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mods, I'm sorry for hostaging/dominating the chat like this I'll change subject.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do think official/canon pairings of characters make more sense definitely, non-canon ones can kind of cheapen characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really really want to say though, I totally am not okay with rape in hentai though and I don't like 50 shades of grey.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To get off this subject, funny little random memory here of reading manga in public, back when I was still into fate, some street person sat down next to me and saw a picture of berserk and said "Oh, he's quite ripped isn't he"
Anonymous1832214
@Anon could be
@Kaiser Srsly youd hate Young's Aflame Inferno - narcissistic manipulative elite MC guy plays a sub to a playful manipulative OP demon woman. I love that so much..!
Kaiser-Eoghan
The old artists valued some interesting takes on beauty too, all of those middle aged larger bodies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Someone has read this and gone off and done an Akira x Satan devilman doujin haven't they?
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the beauty and the beast thing, I wonder if characters like Elias from Mahouyome will become more popular. Monsterboys might end up catching on.
Anonymous1832169
Anonymous1832214 - I think so, I mean we paint angels following that idea.
Anonymous1832214
Thx for the talk guys (and girls). Btw. I'm the guy with weird nicks, Evaluation, Strength, Victim, etc in case anyone's wondering.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think regarding role switching and whether I prefer being dom or sub is definately based on which gender I'm playing, this goes back to the cliches of girl=the submissive character man=is the non-submissive.
Anonymous1832214
There's something about androgynous features, is there?
Kaiser-Eoghan
accept of course for the sensei, who looks like one-punchman.
Anonymous1832214
Seems consistent with your preferences towards domination. Open your heart more and feel the love. They cant help themselves. They need you to get it out. Why not play the mature person, not play the game and accept their flawed selves?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Specifically due the ambiguity.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Houseki's character designs and art is fascinating.
Anonymous1832169
I like the idea of women pretending to be men and men pretending to be women. Not necessarily transgender, just in the sense of playing the role like Hercules and Diomedes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hating them makes it easier/better aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place
Anonymous1832214
I wouldnt mind being a dominated by a (good-hearted) Pandora. So I guess I have no idea how you can even say that...
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lol now we're getting into liking certsin things because their so non-pc =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of me taking on a female role and being dominated by a woman is bizzare to me , taking on a female role and being dominated by a man, yes.
Anonymous1832214
Yeah got it. Like Senjougahara? Lol.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But she still holds on to the delusion that she's in control.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Wait, to be more specific, I was saying I liked the idea of making a tsundere girl submit, with the tsundere becoming the sub.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Youngs manga work better than say, something like ikkitosen/highschool dxd/seikon no qwaser/highschool of the dead because they go all out with the exploitation .
Anonymous1832169
I do see a correlation between the feminine guys in yaoi and the token girls in otome. I swear I don't get why otome and other young girl series, like to play the bad boy and misogynistic treatment of women. I think they we might have lost the point in Beauty and the Beast.
Anonymous1832214
Kaiser... do you know Im Dal Young's manga? Freezing, Unbalance x Unbalance, etc. He often puts the women in the dominant role. He's gotta have a thing for it. I love that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think going back to the complaints of yuri on ice not having enough bite to it, its the same as the fanservice in josei manga with the ambiguous bromances.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a really pretentious guy, I love going into the psychology of it all.
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - As one teacher told me, the most memorable characters are the contradictory ones.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The western side often feels more tokenistic at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The feminine male character exists as a safe zone for the female reader.
Kaiser-Eoghan
No wonder I enjoyed haru deiteita so much, it did the reversal thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet people don't understand this when I say I find tsunderes attractive, what could be more appealing to me than a tsundere ending up losing the dominant role and becoming submissive?
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I think I like that dichotomy, because since manga is already androgynous one does accept it more. Especially since of anime thread the line of making their male characters submissive. Also in a more design sense it might be because there's a power dynamic at play. That's why there's also harassment.
Anonymous1832214
I also agree that yuri is more established and accepted. Particularly in western media, which are starting to catch up? (lesbians everywhere...) Legend of Korra anyone?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The weirdest thing is from my own perspective, when I play the female role in the relationship I understand taking on a more submissive role, yet in a male role, with a women I find being in a non-dominent role impossible.
Anonymous1832214
@Kaiser I'm not going to defend KnM, valid points. Again, it's done enough. And - I have a thing for tragic/platonic love so KnM clicked...
Anonymous1832169
Yuri can be cold, harsh and seduction is usually a weapon. Though a tiring trope is that most stories treat the couple as kind of sister type of affection. Or so I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In terms of the pairings, my headcanon doesn't understand the petite-man thing in male to male relationships relationships/pairings , yet petit women I am obsessed with.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - I do agree. I suppose for me or at least when I did start watching it, it felt more risque, since at least in media lesbians seem more accepted than gay or flamboyant men. So I think the draw for me might be emasculation, because of the uke and seme dynamic. It is said the reason for that is to project their female audiences in more of a dominant role or something like that.
SuperMario
Hmm, I watched few episodes of Sekaiichi Hatsukoi and it's the romance that turned me off. It's just plain secual harassment
Kaiser-Eoghan
In some way its easier to physically work it out mentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which leads to the interesting phenomenon of fudanshiism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bizzarest thing is I am significantly more attracted to women than men yet find shounen-ai/yaoi more of a draw, while admitting the shoujo-ai/yuri stories out there are better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I recall actually liking the music in gravitation at one point.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As silly melodrama it was somewhat watchable.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt that a certain off colour scene with Chikane felt like character assassination.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But the characterization and mecha fights are particularly messy in kannazuki, especially bringing the manga into it where the villains didn't even get 1 second backstories and the framing of the art and panels is poor, with some of dialogue, at least in the dub sounding very silly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Regarding kannazuki, I'm not going to doubt that it a kyoshiro aren't rip roaringly hilarious guilty pleasures, not that this dimnishes the anons take on the female lead.
Anonymous1832214
KnM is trash anime, but very endearing and a treasure. I love it.

(Just passing by, I'm straight male with a thing for yuri genre).
Anonymous1832169
And I think Gravitation is also because music is also part of the plot and not solely the romance. I think the last one I enjoyed was Love Stage but that only had a thing going with one side being biconfused. Though it didn't do anything with that.
Anonymous1832214
Kannazuki no Miko has a heroine who readily accepts her feelings and is in a position where it is very difficult not to empathise. Her love seems very pure and to me is very rewarding to watch.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Yeah but then you have Utena, Aoi Hana, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja, Madoka, and several other series that just happen to have lesbian couples. In terms of good or recognizable shounen ai, it's harder, since I think the most recognizable is Gravitation, followed by (maybe) the Nakamura ones (Seikachi Hatsukoi and his other series).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The manga is even worse than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are truly terrible yuri series though I'm sure, no idea how Kannazuki no miko became a cult thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Sadly there's too much rape in yaoi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Oh, the gender roles thing is terrible in those things. Plenty of gay men are masculine irl.
Anonymous1832169
Borrowed from Japanese 百合 (yuri, “lily”), by analogy to 薔薇 (bara, “rose”), indicating gay men.
Anonymous1832169
Shoujo AI and even Yuri, are more romance than eros. There could be like 10 or more chapters without any intimate action and I suppose that's also part in why yuri tends to achieve better stories.
Anonymous1832169
Also the formula is so transparent that one scrolls to the end, to see ehem, the good part.
Anonymous1832169
And finally like the typical chick flick there's rarely anything important beyond the relationship. I even say those who try a little may be the better ones in this genre.
Anonymous1832169
Now you know what you should expect. Because that's the issue. In Shounen Ai or Yaoi for the most part. Secondary characters have no issue with these relationships. Second problem is that the couple both are put in the male and female part of the relationship.
Anonymous1832169
In defense of yaoi. Do anyone know the meaning behind that word? From Japanese やおい (yaoi), an acronym of Yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi (ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし), "no climax, no point, no meaning
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm actually not even overly interested in either show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But yes, its stupid that yuri on ice didn't go all the way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I believe citrus is actually aim at girls, going by the magazine its serialized in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And a yuri manga would probably be more explicit than shoujo-ai.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well you're comparing shounen-ai to yuri , so of course citrus will be more explicit , just like yaoi would be more explicit than shounen-ai.
AidanAK47
And I am not arguing that gay people can't have fanservice shows. As a matter of fact I am arguing why the bar is so much lower. Yuri on Ice has people fangirling over an "implied kiss" while I look over to the other side to see Citrus reaching second base.
AidanAK47
@Anon, not say you can't like the show but it was queer baiting. The show was comical in how it it made it clear it's characters were gay but didn't even have the balls to show a kiss on screen. Meanwhile you have Citrus here showing two girls having full make out sessions without trouble. I have no interest whatsoever in seeing two men kiss but even I can admit that is bullshit.
KTravlos
interesting conversation. Must say I do not usually react much to the sexuality of characters in anime, but this is partly because I might not see the problem, or because most of the anime I watch have sexuality only incidentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course I don't want to dismiss the fact that hentai manga for gay men exists,if one wanted it there is seinen yaoi, ie Bara manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I attribute it to being less passive than just watching something.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will say, I do think self-insertion is more effective in relation to videogames.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On this I as a bicurious man agree, when I read a romance story, I just want ad like a romance ore relationship story, its not special to me what the race or orientation of characters are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
My brother also felt that romance stories involving homosexual characters often falter in a space where the same sex pairing becomes more about pure novelty than just being a love story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Imredjimmy, who posted on here as a user before, he himself homosexual had issues with yaoi manga, feeling that it didn't address issues properly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
He feels "All romance stories belong in the romance section and shouldn't be too categorized and that most yaoi/yuri isn't really for the homosexual audience"
Kaiser-Eoghan
Is it really fanservice for a homosexual audience though? I do find both male and female characters attractive as a bicurious man but it has to be admitted, shounen-ai and yaoi is really a thing for girls and bi men, I can admit that. My brother, a gay man is very critical of yaoi/shounen-ai as well as yuri/shoujo-ai.
Anonymous1831032
You are overly critical
Anonymous1831032
why can't gay people have 'fanservice' without being compared to fish blindly poking for worms and being caught by some manipulative fisherman? It's 'normal' for weebs to watch 'cutesy' or 'moe' shows.
Anonymous1831032
Who cares dude. I liked the show. The term 'queer baiting' is fucking insulting.
Vonter
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I agree with that, there is a lot of meandering in Hourou Musuko manga, it makes it feel more realistic and grounded. But there's a reason many storytellers don't tell the most boring aspects of real life, like constantly pondering about what the future may bring.
Vonter
Pokemon and Zelda let the community make the conjectures and the creators mostly shy away from explaining them, because they fear they'll write themselves into a corner.
Vonter
I mean, not all things should make statements. Ranma 1/2 is recognizable, despite being a comedy. Conan is iconic and its just contained mystery stories, despite the themes of Evangelion the creators have admitted the use of christian elements was because of aesthetics, moreso than delivering a statement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Some felt that the manga for hourou musuko felt more low key in tone than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Travlos, I've noticed the site seems to be giving you trouble setting a username sometimes, best to just create an account instead.
AidanAK47
@Anon, that respect seems on different levels for people though. I mean I seen people championed Yuri on Ice as a major win for LGBT representation in anime while I myself just saw it as queer baiting seeing as the series itself couldn't admit it's characters were gay.
Anonymous1829806
Travlos here: I know many of the AoTitan fans hate the new direction of the manga, but I love it. Gimme more war!

While I love the ideas in Birdy the Mighty, the pace of the mangaka is maddening.
Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
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