Posted by SuperMario on 12 February 2018 with categories: 2011 Anime Retrospective

It’s me, Mario again, for an update of the 2010 Retro Summary. Like I mentioned last time, 27 shows were watched, eliminated/picked based on how much I like to follow them till the end.


SHOWS THAT WERE DECIDED BY THEIR PREMIERE EPISODE:

10 shows are eliminated, while 4 shows are picked during this period.

IS: Infinite Stratos: Easily the blandest debut for this 2011 retrospective, thank you IS (short for It’s Shit) for making my job of dropping shows fairly easily.  Right at the beginning we have a fight that we have absolutely no idea about, all the girls flash their moves and the main guy finishes it off. Then my little interest is drained when I learn the facts that 1) this mecha fight is supposed to be a sport game and 2) somehow our main IS the only male who can drive this thing, make him an automatic winner in girls’ eyes. I dropped out this one fast. OUT

Kore wa Zombie Desu ka?: I find the whole premise dull rather than funny, and the show already features a girl naked in several occasions, which never is a good sign. A main guy is having a harem of eccentric and downright annoying girls, while himself doesn’t fare much better to stand out. OUT

Mayo Chiki: The fact that right after just one day since I watched this I have a hard time recalling the plot should tell you how much I care for this show. Let’s see, a guy who “by chance” sees a crossdressing girl in her underwear, grabs her boob and that said girl vows to kill him before comes to live with him. Nah, nah, NAH. Why do you have to rely on such cliché crap, anime medium? OUT

Kimi to Boku: This one is more “cute boys doing cute things” and I must admit I’m not within the target demography for this. There are some strong moments about friendship but I have a hard time caring for any of those guys, especially the male lead. The animation is especially lackluster. Dropped. OUT

Beezebub: One of two shows about the son of Great Evil messing up with simple daily life. It has some amusing laugh and that kid is a delight but is it good enough for me to burn through its 60 episodes? No, Also I find the humor a bit bland at times. OUT

Ben-To: Only anime can make a series out of such ridiculous premise: about a bunch of “professional hunters” who hunt… half price bento in a supermarket. And because it’s anime, characters are the types you’ve seen in other shows before, the action and the violence are over the top and ridiculous. I’m in a camp who buying a full price bento anyway so I guess I don’t see the appeal of this show. OUT

Phi Brain: This first episode plays out well the puzzle aspect of the show, otherwise it’s serviceable. If it was a current seasonal show I can continue to watch it, but for the purpose of this summary there are literally 30 plus other shows that worth watching more. I still don’t really like the main lead, who is your typical shounen protagonist that can easily leave his friend behind in the quest of becoming stronger. Another problem with this show is with the guy who already overpowered like this, it takes out all the suspension the puzzles might have had. OUT

SKET Dance: The last two shows are a good example of using a “false protagonist”, that is a main guy who becomes less relevant as the episode goes on. I found this SKET club rather charming with formulaic team members: a brain – a muscle – an info guy but the case in question in this episode leaves a lot to be desired. For once, I don’t buy the bullying aspect at all and that machine voice from the info guy gets on my nerve every time. Could be a decent watch but once again it just doesn’t stand out enough for me to spend time watching 77 episodes of it. OUT

Yuru Yuri: Like the title suggests it’s yuri banter all the way. I like some of its satire aspects, like the fact the main character is constantly ignored for her lack of presence. Or the yuri banter can get out of hand in a hilarious way. Still, there is no real plot and that is a huge issue since it sometimes feels it goes nowhere. Not cute enough for me to spend more time with, it seems. OUT


C: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control: By all mean it’s not the perfect first episode, given I have a feeling its thematic ambitions swallow whole its characters and the plot. But what an interesting theme. It has something to say about the value of currency and money and I’m in for the drive to see what it wants to explore. The visual so far compliments the show greatly but the characters aren’t that interesting or relatable. Still, it’s a promising start with a bold concept. IN

Shouwa Monogatari: From more than 50 shows I compile for this summary, this one is the least known title. It flies under the radar from most anime watchers and as far as I know only psgels here covered it during its air and thus bring it to my attention (thanks man). Storytelling wise it’s the most solid one in this list, with quiet and simple depiction of a normal family during the year of the Japan Olympic. I dig the shot of actual footage from the modern-ay scenery, then back to the real footage from its showa period and then the animated version of it. Make you feel the great passage of time. I’m still a bit wary about its use of CG, however, as it’s distracts the flow of otherwise limited hand-drawn animation the show is known for. This one is a keeper. IN

Haganai: To be frank I have a soft spot for Light Novel Adaptation and so far this one uses its LN’s advantage pretty well. The dialogue is reasonably enjoyable and the premise of creating a club of loner is a plausible, if not totally refreshing, concept. I know it will go for more cliché route based on the OP (1 guy and how many girls?) but so far I’m sold with what it’s selling here. IN

Tamayura Hitotose: slice-of-life is my jam, slice-of-life is my bread and butter. This one admittedly doesn’t offer much outside of its genre but for what it does, it does beautifully. The soothing atmosphere is displayed wonderfully and the photographs taken as reserving those moments speak very well to its theme. I’m happy to watch more solid slice of life like this anytime. IN


SHOWS THAT WERE DECIDED BY THEIR SECOND EPISODE:

7 shows were determined at this stage, 4 were dropped and 3 more got their tickets to the final round.

Deadman Wonderland: Along with shows like Attack on Titan, Deadman Wonderland is a show where its best part lies at the start, and then it will get stupid very, very fast. This one already feels dull after just 2 episodes. What I found the most welcome surprise is the well-crafted production from Manglobe (seriously, the more I watch their old shows the more admiration I have for this late-studio). This show seems to underline the messed-up system the characters live in, but what I get so far instead is the message “Don’t trust anyone”. People act cruel to others for the sake of their own amusement. And when one of a guy declares outright “I will rape you and kill you some day”, what should I take from this? Is it because the system creates such a twisted personality or only individual who downright evil can survive in that world? I honestly don’t care either way. OUT

Kamisama Dolls: I must admit this show caught me off-guard since based solely on the poster, I could never have guessed there will be supernatural, conspiracy, murder and some more dark elements mixed in. But then the show never quite settles on its tone, and the story still feels pretty loose right now. It seems the main developments will be about the main guy going through his trauma, and his little sister comes to master the “God” (more like a puppet if you ask me), which frankly I don’t have any interest in either of them. I am mixed on the ecchi aspect as well and the comedy falls flat. Sorry but it still isn’t good enough to guarantee a spot for the main list. OUT

Fractacle: I can appreciate the level of details into its setting, but other than that this show is very uneven. Plot-wise it’s just too inconsistent, character-wise they’re all one-note and production-wise it’s just on par. The worst offender for me is the girl and two guys who seem to be from 101 Dalmatians than belong to the show. It’s the first dropped noitaminA show and I suspect it won’t be the only one. OUT

Un-Go: yeah, the second dropped noitaminA show. I am a bit intrigued with the settings but neither the cases, or the characters are good enough to keep my interest. Those murders have some twist and turn but they feel too condensed that they never feel flesh out enough. Those main characters have little to no chemistry to each other and the overarching plot is still very muddy. It’s decent but it still doesn’t quite convince me to keep up with it. OUT


Yumekui Merry: Finally, this one is the last show I watched during the first-episode period so just get on with it, endure it for 20 minutes before put it aside and move on… Hang on a minute there, this one’s actually pretty good. The style reminds me a fair bit of Flip Flappers and for good reasons. The concept of blurring the dream and reality is one of my favorite theme and while I can see this show won’t be heavy on that front, I’m happy with what I see so far. To my surprise, the second episode is even better than the first, with some well-articulated drama from the main lead girl and the animation is always inspiring to say the least. I had absolutely no expectation coming to this so and it turns out to be my favorite show so far out of those 27 shows. Made me glad for all these efforts I’m taking so far. IN

Kamisama no Memochou: Wow, this double-length first episode is pretty solid. With this show (and one show below, along with Gosick), we now have 3 series about loli-girl who plays detective. Would be worthwhile just to see which show will eventually come on top. I like this modern-day setting and I found the two cases so far have its compelling parts. Also I enjoy the team dynamic so far, plus the chemistry between the main guy and Alice. Count me in to watch this till the end. IN

Dantalian no Shaka: Well, I didn’t expect this show is produced by Gainax since it feels very unlike their other projects and this was possibly their last big project before becoming the ghost of its own glory as we see now. Another show where loli girl plays detective and this one focus on literacy and the books that can bring magical power. I enjoy the cases and the settings so far, and thank god for one the main mail lead is likeable enough because at least he has brain. The titular girl can be annoying at times but in general I like what I see so far. Also really digging the slow, classical soundtrack. IN


SHOWS THAT WERE DECIDED BY THEIR THIRD EPISODE:

These final 7 shows were so close that I had quite a bit of difficult time shuffling around before this locking in with the list below. Another 4 shows were out and the last 3 shows made its way into the final list

Guilty Crown: It’s remarkable that even after 3 episodes I can’t relate to any of the show’s character. Admittedly I love design characters and the background arts of the show (the character designer of this show is the one who responsible for design of Beatless this season), but the show so far is just underwhelming. Cliché upon cliché (new transfer student, the main guy has is “the one” despite being a nobody, girl lives in his house), fanservice from left field and the story is like a patch-up jobs from other shows. All the characters are so one-note that they’re annoying on screen. The production is impressive, however, but why all good efforts for the show with no writing-talent at all? Such a crying shame. OUT

Blood-C: I swear I can’t keep my eyes of the art-style of Blood-C. Clamp’s unique character style of long limbs can put some new viewers off, but their appeal is so unmistakable. Blood-C also benefits from striking background arts and stellar fight sequences. But then, the story so far is so poorly-constructed. The characters have some of the most tedious dialogue I’ve seen this summary. I have a strong feeling they’re on purpose, with all these “normal activities” are purposely empty, repeatedly for something much more sinister underneath. But damnit, 3 episodes in and they still haven’t pull it off, and that’s not alright considered it’s only 1-cour show. I feel like I’m waiting for some twist that might never appear, which again test my patience and frankly with so many shows out there I just don’t think the wait is worth it. OUT

Sekaiichi Hatsukoi: Boy, I kind of dismissed it upon reading the synopsis but it’s way better than I expected it to be, but it still has some glaring issues. Let’s talk about the good things first, I really love the manga business aspect of the show. Every time the team deals with their mangaka, or tries to check up the manuscript, are a total delight. It makes me want to pair this one up with Bakuman 2 for the two shows that del with manga industry – one from shoujo management point of view, the other one is shounen mangaka perspective. Perfect match, right? But it has a big big big issue, namely the BL aspect. No, I’m not bias against yaoi at all, in fact I’m craving for a good one, but this is not one of this. They go with the yaoi all the way here, and it’s not in a good way. In many instances we have the main guy downright harasses the other main by force-kiss him against his will. It makes for some good “Ah, they kiss” moment but when I think back about it, it isn’t that good of a romance, nor does I care much about it. A shame since I really love the other “manga industry” part of it, but the forced love is a deal-breaker for me here, and I suspect it will only get worse as time goes on. OUT

Zen Hemi: I came to this show with the knowledge of its OVAs and to be frank I wasn’t a fan of the OVAs. The show has some good tweaks about the notion of “pervert” and their behaviors, but at the end it feels rather twisted and somewhat mean-spirited. Well, to my surprise, the series so far fares so much better to me, given the fact that they tone down the experiments and make the characters more likable. It comes incredibly close to the final list (and I’m quite sad to see it goes), still I like the three qualified shows more so this one unfortunately has to go. OUT

Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko: I don’t deny this is just another Shaft’s joint but it’s exactly why I love every moment of it. The premise itself is hardly original, especially compare to other Shaft’s shows. It’s a tale about a boy (!) comes to small new town (!) and meets several eccentric girls (!), one of them claimed to be an alien (! Wouldn’t you know just a year previous, one of the main girl from Shaft’s Arakawa Under the Bridge claims herself to be a Venus. Surprise, Surprise) but it’s distinctively Shaft-feel with some appropriate and sharp direction and some deep into the characters themselves. Might end up being the most controversial pick here but I don’t care since I enjoyed what I’ve seen from start to finish. IN

Moshidora: This is the tale about a high school girl who use the real “Management” book to apply for her baseball club. Based on popular Light Novels, I must point out that the idea of using such book into a sport club is kinda… impractical. “Management” book is all about business and I can’t define baseball club as a business. They’re just never on the same page. But saying all that, seeing a high school girl tries to apply what written in the book to her own club’s situation has its own unique charm. I also like the feminist touch of having a girl run the club and raise the club to its success, so I’m on board to see how things will play out in the end. IN

Ao no Exorcist: The first episode admittedly didn’t do much to me, given I’m never much a fan of shounen story. There’s a mildly interesting premise and the animation quality is excellent, that’s all I can give. But I’m warming up with its later 2 episodes and I can see myself having fun watching them progress along the way. I still have problem with the main guy, who acts so impulsively that it’s sometimes irritating to watch. Given this is one of the most popular show of 2011 (MAL says it has the second most members of that year, just behind Steins:Gate) and my preferences have been quite under the radar-eccentric, it might not be a bad idea to mix thing up with something as bombastic as this. Who knows, maybe this one (and not Hunter x Hunter) will be the one that change my mind about shounen action show. Blue is indeed the warmest color IN


The final shortlist for the 2011 Anime Retrospective: (36 shows in total)

Winter:   Madoka – Wandering Son – Level E – Gosick – Supernatural the Animation – Yumekui Merry – Kimi no Todoke 2 – Mitsumodoe 2

Spring:     Steins;Gate – AnoHana – Nichijou – Tiger & Bunny – Hanasaku Iroha – Hyouge Mono – C: The Money of Soul and Possibility Control – Ao no Exorcist – Shouwa Monogatari – Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko – Moshidora – Kaiji 2

Summer: Mawuru Penguindrum – Usagi Drop – The Idolmasters – Ikoku Meiro no Croisee – No.6 – Dantalian no Shaka – Kamisama no Memochou – Natsume 3

Fall:    Hunter x Hunter – Chihayafuru – Fate/Zero – Mirai Nikki – Haganai – Tamayura: Hitotose – Bakuman 2 – Working 2

Will some of those shows eventually blow up on my pretty face? Absolutely, but it’s the risk I’m willing to take. So what’s next, you wonder? Starting from next post, it’s the real thing. I’ll pick 2 shows to watch and review back to back. The two shows that will kick-off this summary are: Wandering Son and Tiger & Bunny – a sensitive depiction of crossdressers and an exploration to the nature of superhero; a masculine vs. feminime shows so to speak. If youhaven’t watched any of these, this might be a good time to catch up and join me for the next post. Expect it to come out in the next 2 or 3 weeks, as I can only watch those over the weekends. Until then.

5 Responses

  1. swa says:

    Damn that list, 2011 was an impressive year.

  2. llevron says:

    Blood-C isn’t good enough to stick with until the twist, but there is one and it is one hell of a twist. (And yes the dialogue is purposely that hamfisted to support the eventual reveal)

    • AidanAK47 AidanAK47 says:

      The twist makes no sense whatsoever if you actually think about it though…

      • meow says:

        Did you guys ever get the chance to watch Blood the Last Vampire, the movie or play the original playstation 2 games or their psp rerelease? Pretty obscure now but those were the original template of Saya, way before they went on to do Blood+ and Blood C. Plus and C I consider new adaptations. Which did you prefer?

  3. meow says:

    I actually liked Ben-To a lot because living in Japan, expensive as it is, half-priced bentos can be an awesome lifesaver. It’s one of the last things I used to do at the end of the day, pop into a supermarket to check out the bargain bentos. Of course, this series is a complete comical exaggeration but I felt it was an original way to highlight of an old supermarket tradition that I hope still goes on today.

    And I actually liked Sket Dance a lot. I never considered there to be a single protagonist but rather a protagonist group and with a menagerie of colorful characters who could be protagonists in their own right, set in an everyday high school setting. Really good production values too. If you like Gintama’s comedy arcs, this series should work for you.

Leave a Reply

CHANGE USERNAME
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Moreso than the girls death obsession, I thought the stuff with the mother in the first chapter of yakedo has the potential to go in a more messed up way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But he fails miserably and no one learns from his crimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why can't there be a BENEVOLENT killer character that commits horrible acts solely to shock people and show how horrifying those acts are, out of the delusion that it will inspire a reflection and change in people to NOT, to NEVER do those things.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*higher
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe an abused character is a servant in a historical setting with a hierarchy, trapped in societal rules and defeats the obsession with the attacker and raises up against the class system/character of hire social standing that abused them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Perhaps the cannibal killer character in the story has abandonment, severe paranoia and lonliness issues and sees his crimes as taking people inside him so they'll never leave him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
of psychological depth instead?
Kaiser-Eoghan
For the willingness to throw messed up stuff into stories, I wouldn't mind seeing an analysis thrown in, doing a story about a cannibal character? How about instead of just a gore fest, get inside is head and ask, why does he do this? I hate Ntr and its used as a throwaway turn-on involving rape eroticism, but is there any any way that a story involving that could be framed with some sense
Kaiser-Eoghan
Back on to stuff like goblin slayer, they can take out the rape scenes I wouldn't miss them, although I find them less uncomfortable, BECAUSE they are shown as how wrong rape is, instead of say a doujin playing it up for titilation .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite all the talking up of tsunderes, I actually love kuuderes, in the end probably the biggest reason is for how flat chested they are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Slapstick violence always plays second to dry, dark, screwball or surreal humour.
Bokusen
Also, on tsunderes, me too. I can't stand people using physical violence on someone unless it's in self-defense, or a Fate-type scenario where they all know everyone is trying to kill everyone else. Random physical violence played up as comedy is the worst.
Bokusen
@Kaiser Ah, so it was referring to bondage. I was skimming through posts and must've missed that. Bondage still creeps me out a bit, but if it's a fetish thing I can at least understand the whole exaggerated gender roles thing.
AidanAK47
In regards to Tsunderes, yep that was a bad choice of words there Kaiser. But over time I have come to find Tsunderes more agavating. Tsunderes like Rin are fine but those that beat the crap out of the guy they like and are expected to be forgiven cause they get embarrassed can go straight to hell.
AidanAK47
Also who cares who Korra ends up with? She a goddamn horrible character. I hated her so much.
AidanAK47
Korra was a show that had love realistionships come out of nowhere(And not well written in general) but that one really was just pandering to the Korra/Asami shippers. Not sure where the hell that ship came from to begin with.
Lenlo
I agree Aidan, the love at the end of Korra came out of Left field really
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: It was inappropriate and I shouldn't have said it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Heck one of the reasons I prefer seeing another character with another character or a character simply on their own in a fetish situation is because I can distance myself from it and not feel like I'm touching anything/one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If anything I meant role reversal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I apologize, reading it back it sounds terrible, I was actually referring to bondage where the tsundere pretends to hate it initially but consents .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I should state clearly that that is merely a fantasy. The anger on both sides makes it easier because even if things became more physical or intimate it would feel more distant if the talking part was she and myself saying how much we hated it , despite actualily liking it.
Bokusen
"The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place." OK, reading that just creeped me out.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, well you like screwed up stuff so no surprise.
Try Yakedo Shoujo. Get the feeling you will like that one quite a bit.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Legend of Korra? There was no yuri in that one. No evidence whatsoever. They just had Korra and Asami walk into some light and then announced them gay over twitter. Honesty I didn't see it in the show itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Also was it you that recommended happy sugar life to me? That was a pretty good psychological horror manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Going back several messages, I kind of liked goblin slayer oddly.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Read Sakuranbo Syndrome.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: At the same time I really think more series like after the rain need to come out, showing more sensitive approaches.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nudity/sex just isn't used functionally well enough or dramatically as it should. Come on, give us a story about passionette characters, sensual/erotic rather than only porn. Or do a scums wish where miserable people are doing it because saaaaad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
kuuchuu is really one of those things I need to re-watch, I became so much more open to weirder shows in the past number of years than I would have been ages ago.
Anonymous1832169
I think my excuse in hentai, is that despair, and subjugation adds drama to a very simple thing. Though Dawn of the Silver Dragon may be the peak of objectification.
Anonymous1832214
Sure, np, though I must be off. Again, nice to chat casually. Been off forums for a while. Bye.
PS: thank you gift for anyone not familiar https://myanimelist.net/anime/6774/Kuuchuu_Buranko?q=kuuchuu
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lets talk about the spring 2018 anime season chart: http://anichart.net/spring-2018
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mods, I'm sorry for hostaging/dominating the chat like this I'll change subject.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do think official/canon pairings of characters make more sense definitely, non-canon ones can kind of cheapen characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really really want to say though, I totally am not okay with rape in hentai though and I don't like 50 shades of grey.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To get off this subject, funny little random memory here of reading manga in public, back when I was still into fate, some street person sat down next to me and saw a picture of berserk and said "Oh, he's quite ripped isn't he"
Anonymous1832214
@Anon could be
@Kaiser Srsly youd hate Young's Aflame Inferno - narcissistic manipulative elite MC guy plays a sub to a playful manipulative OP demon woman. I love that so much..!
Kaiser-Eoghan
The old artists valued some interesting takes on beauty too, all of those middle aged larger bodies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Someone has read this and gone off and done an Akira x Satan devilman doujin haven't they?
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the beauty and the beast thing, I wonder if characters like Elias from Mahouyome will become more popular. Monsterboys might end up catching on.
Anonymous1832169
Anonymous1832214 - I think so, I mean we paint angels following that idea.
Anonymous1832214
Thx for the talk guys (and girls). Btw. I'm the guy with weird nicks, Evaluation, Strength, Victim, etc in case anyone's wondering.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think regarding role switching and whether I prefer being dom or sub is definately based on which gender I'm playing, this goes back to the cliches of girl=the submissive character man=is the non-submissive.
Anonymous1832214
There's something about androgynous features, is there?
Kaiser-Eoghan
accept of course for the sensei, who looks like one-punchman.
Anonymous1832214
Seems consistent with your preferences towards domination. Open your heart more and feel the love. They cant help themselves. They need you to get it out. Why not play the mature person, not play the game and accept their flawed selves?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Specifically due the ambiguity.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Houseki's character designs and art is fascinating.
Anonymous1832169
I like the idea of women pretending to be men and men pretending to be women. Not necessarily transgender, just in the sense of playing the role like Hercules and Diomedes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hating them makes it easier/better aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place
Anonymous1832214
I wouldnt mind being a dominated by a (good-hearted) Pandora. So I guess I have no idea how you can even say that...
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lol now we're getting into liking certsin things because their so non-pc =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of me taking on a female role and being dominated by a woman is bizzare to me , taking on a female role and being dominated by a man, yes.
Anonymous1832214
Yeah got it. Like Senjougahara? Lol.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But she still holds on to the delusion that she's in control.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Wait, to be more specific, I was saying I liked the idea of making a tsundere girl submit, with the tsundere becoming the sub.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Youngs manga work better than say, something like ikkitosen/highschool dxd/seikon no qwaser/highschool of the dead because they go all out with the exploitation .
Anonymous1832169
I do see a correlation between the feminine guys in yaoi and the token girls in otome. I swear I don't get why otome and other young girl series, like to play the bad boy and misogynistic treatment of women. I think they we might have lost the point in Beauty and the Beast.
Anonymous1832214
Kaiser... do you know Im Dal Young's manga? Freezing, Unbalance x Unbalance, etc. He often puts the women in the dominant role. He's gotta have a thing for it. I love that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think going back to the complaints of yuri on ice not having enough bite to it, its the same as the fanservice in josei manga with the ambiguous bromances.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a really pretentious guy, I love going into the psychology of it all.
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - As one teacher told me, the most memorable characters are the contradictory ones.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The western side often feels more tokenistic at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The feminine male character exists as a safe zone for the female reader.
Kaiser-Eoghan
No wonder I enjoyed haru deiteita so much, it did the reversal thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet people don't understand this when I say I find tsunderes attractive, what could be more appealing to me than a tsundere ending up losing the dominant role and becoming submissive?
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I think I like that dichotomy, because since manga is already androgynous one does accept it more. Especially since of anime thread the line of making their male characters submissive. Also in a more design sense it might be because there's a power dynamic at play. That's why there's also harassment.
Anonymous1832214
I also agree that yuri is more established and accepted. Particularly in western media, which are starting to catch up? (lesbians everywhere...) Legend of Korra anyone?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The weirdest thing is from my own perspective, when I play the female role in the relationship I understand taking on a more submissive role, yet in a male role, with a women I find being in a non-dominent role impossible.
Anonymous1832214
@Kaiser I'm not going to defend KnM, valid points. Again, it's done enough. And - I have a thing for tragic/platonic love so KnM clicked...
Anonymous1832169
Yuri can be cold, harsh and seduction is usually a weapon. Though a tiring trope is that most stories treat the couple as kind of sister type of affection. Or so I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In terms of the pairings, my headcanon doesn't understand the petite-man thing in male to male relationships relationships/pairings , yet petit women I am obsessed with.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - I do agree. I suppose for me or at least when I did start watching it, it felt more risque, since at least in media lesbians seem more accepted than gay or flamboyant men. So I think the draw for me might be emasculation, because of the uke and seme dynamic. It is said the reason for that is to project their female audiences in more of a dominant role or something like that.
SuperMario
Hmm, I watched few episodes of Sekaiichi Hatsukoi and it's the romance that turned me off. It's just plain secual harassment
Kaiser-Eoghan
In some way its easier to physically work it out mentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which leads to the interesting phenomenon of fudanshiism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bizzarest thing is I am significantly more attracted to women than men yet find shounen-ai/yaoi more of a draw, while admitting the shoujo-ai/yuri stories out there are better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I recall actually liking the music in gravitation at one point.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As silly melodrama it was somewhat watchable.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt that a certain off colour scene with Chikane felt like character assassination.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But the characterization and mecha fights are particularly messy in kannazuki, especially bringing the manga into it where the villains didn't even get 1 second backstories and the framing of the art and panels is poor, with some of dialogue, at least in the dub sounding very silly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Regarding kannazuki, I'm not going to doubt that it a kyoshiro aren't rip roaringly hilarious guilty pleasures, not that this dimnishes the anons take on the female lead.
Anonymous1832214
KnM is trash anime, but very endearing and a treasure. I love it.

(Just passing by, I'm straight male with a thing for yuri genre).
Anonymous1832169
And I think Gravitation is also because music is also part of the plot and not solely the romance. I think the last one I enjoyed was Love Stage but that only had a thing going with one side being biconfused. Though it didn't do anything with that.
Anonymous1832214
Kannazuki no Miko has a heroine who readily accepts her feelings and is in a position where it is very difficult not to empathise. Her love seems very pure and to me is very rewarding to watch.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Yeah but then you have Utena, Aoi Hana, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja, Madoka, and several other series that just happen to have lesbian couples. In terms of good or recognizable shounen ai, it's harder, since I think the most recognizable is Gravitation, followed by (maybe) the Nakamura ones (Seikachi Hatsukoi and his other series).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The manga is even worse than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are truly terrible yuri series though I'm sure, no idea how Kannazuki no miko became a cult thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Sadly there's too much rape in yaoi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Oh, the gender roles thing is terrible in those things. Plenty of gay men are masculine irl.
Anonymous1832169
Borrowed from Japanese 百合 (yuri, “lily”), by analogy to 薔薇 (bara, “rose”), indicating gay men.
Anonymous1832169
Shoujo AI and even Yuri, are more romance than eros. There could be like 10 or more chapters without any intimate action and I suppose that's also part in why yuri tends to achieve better stories.
Anonymous1832169
Also the formula is so transparent that one scrolls to the end, to see ehem, the good part.
Anonymous1832169
And finally like the typical chick flick there's rarely anything important beyond the relationship. I even say those who try a little may be the better ones in this genre.
Anonymous1832169
Now you know what you should expect. Because that's the issue. In Shounen Ai or Yaoi for the most part. Secondary characters have no issue with these relationships. Second problem is that the couple both are put in the male and female part of the relationship.
Anonymous1832169
In defense of yaoi. Do anyone know the meaning behind that word? From Japanese やおい (yaoi), an acronym of Yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi (ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし), "no climax, no point, no meaning
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm actually not even overly interested in either show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But yes, its stupid that yuri on ice didn't go all the way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I believe citrus is actually aim at girls, going by the magazine its serialized in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And a yuri manga would probably be more explicit than shoujo-ai.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well you're comparing shounen-ai to yuri , so of course citrus will be more explicit , just like yaoi would be more explicit than shounen-ai.
AidanAK47
And I am not arguing that gay people can't have fanservice shows. As a matter of fact I am arguing why the bar is so much lower. Yuri on Ice has people fangirling over an "implied kiss" while I look over to the other side to see Citrus reaching second base.
AidanAK47
@Anon, not say you can't like the show but it was queer baiting. The show was comical in how it it made it clear it's characters were gay but didn't even have the balls to show a kiss on screen. Meanwhile you have Citrus here showing two girls having full make out sessions without trouble. I have no interest whatsoever in seeing two men kiss but even I can admit that is bullshit.
KTravlos
interesting conversation. Must say I do not usually react much to the sexuality of characters in anime, but this is partly because I might not see the problem, or because most of the anime I watch have sexuality only incidentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course I don't want to dismiss the fact that hentai manga for gay men exists,if one wanted it there is seinen yaoi, ie Bara manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I attribute it to being less passive than just watching something.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will say, I do think self-insertion is more effective in relation to videogames.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On this I as a bicurious man agree, when I read a romance story, I just want ad like a romance ore relationship story, its not special to me what the race or orientation of characters are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
My brother also felt that romance stories involving homosexual characters often falter in a space where the same sex pairing becomes more about pure novelty than just being a love story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Imredjimmy, who posted on here as a user before, he himself homosexual had issues with yaoi manga, feeling that it didn't address issues properly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
He feels "All romance stories belong in the romance section and shouldn't be too categorized and that most yaoi/yuri isn't really for the homosexual audience"
Kaiser-Eoghan
Is it really fanservice for a homosexual audience though? I do find both male and female characters attractive as a bicurious man but it has to be admitted, shounen-ai and yaoi is really a thing for girls and bi men, I can admit that. My brother, a gay man is very critical of yaoi/shounen-ai as well as yuri/shoujo-ai.
Anonymous1831032
You are overly critical
Anonymous1831032
why can't gay people have 'fanservice' without being compared to fish blindly poking for worms and being caught by some manipulative fisherman? It's 'normal' for weebs to watch 'cutesy' or 'moe' shows.
Anonymous1831032
Who cares dude. I liked the show. The term 'queer baiting' is fucking insulting.
Vonter
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I agree with that, there is a lot of meandering in Hourou Musuko manga, it makes it feel more realistic and grounded. But there's a reason many storytellers don't tell the most boring aspects of real life, like constantly pondering about what the future may bring.
Vonter
Pokemon and Zelda let the community make the conjectures and the creators mostly shy away from explaining them, because they fear they'll write themselves into a corner.
Vonter
I mean, not all things should make statements. Ranma 1/2 is recognizable, despite being a comedy. Conan is iconic and its just contained mystery stories, despite the themes of Evangelion the creators have admitted the use of christian elements was because of aesthetics, moreso than delivering a statement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Some felt that the manga for hourou musuko felt more low key in tone than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Travlos, I've noticed the site seems to be giving you trouble setting a username sometimes, best to just create an account instead.
AidanAK47
@Anon, that respect seems on different levels for people though. I mean I seen people championed Yuri on Ice as a major win for LGBT representation in anime while I myself just saw it as queer baiting seeing as the series itself couldn't admit it's characters were gay.
Anonymous1829806
Travlos here: I know many of the AoTitan fans hate the new direction of the manga, but I love it. Gimme more war!

While I love the ideas in Birdy the Mighty, the pace of the mangaka is maddening.
Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
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