Posted by AidanAK47 on 11 May 2018 with categories: Anime Reviews

We have seen an influx of Fate adaptations over the last year and sadly each has proven to be disappointing except for a cooking slice of life short series which is weirdly better than it has any right to be. This movie was the last of the Fate adaptations that I needed to see but sadly remained out of my reach due to screenings being nowhere near where I live. So I waited and now with the Blu-ray release I can finally experience it and by god it’s perfect. This is only the first of three movies covering the Heaven’s Feel route of the original visual novel. As for what that means to the uninformed, the original first visual novel of Fate/Stay night was a choose your own adventure style game where the story could turn out one of three completely different ways. The first path where Saber is the main heroine is called Fate, was adapted by Studio Deen in 2006 but while the only adaption of this route it is considered lackluster. The second route is called Unlimited Bladeworks where Rin is the main heroine and has been adapted by Deen into a movie and again by Ufotable into a TV series. This movie is the very first adaption of the previously unadapted third route called Heaven’s Feel where Sakura is the main heroine and more or less is the grand finale of the original game. When compared to the other two routes Heaven’s Feel is generally considered darker in tone and quite a few consider it the closest thing to a true sequel to Fate/Zero. Take that statement with a grain of salt however as it certainly isn’t intended to be a sequel but rather a conclusion to the original game. As a long time fan of the series I was curious as to how Ufotable would handle the adaptation and if this first movie is an example of what the full trilogy will be I would consider it a prefect adaption. Not only did this first movie cover the important points of the beginning of the route but actually improved the pacing and story with extra scenes.

In the visual novel it was briefly mentioned how Sakura started to come to Shirou’s house to help out but Ufotable actually shows it right from the start which I feel was a great introduction for her. The expanded action scenes and original scenes of things that happened outside of Shirou’s perspective really added much needed context to the story while giving justice to characters whom in the visual novel were sent off less ceremoniously. If there is a character that truly benefited from the animated adaptation it’s most definitely true Assassin. It’s nice to see a master who uses an Assassin class servant as they were intended to be used and despite being an antagonist you could always see how under powered he was when compared the powerhouses that are other servants. The animation really shows Assassins fighting style of avoiding direct confrontation and relying on traps and tricks to catch servants off guard. Even Shinji was given more context which made him more understandable though obviously still not likeable. The small nods to Fate/Zero help continuity better than the original story did as of course Zero was originally made after it. Animation of course was fantastic as this is indeed Ufotable with a movie budget and clearly no expenses were spared in making this thing as gorgeous as humanly possible. The fight scenes are absolute works of art and exhilarating to behold. Soundtrack was also quite excellent and despite my misgivings with Yuki Kajura I found this soundtrack quite effective and only remembered it was Yuki’s work when the choir jumped in at the opening credits. Through admittedly I wasn’t quite paying attention to the soundtrack but that in itself is a sign of grown from Kajura as her soundtracks had a tendency of stealing attention away from a scene whereas here the soundtrack worked more in tandem with the visuals.

Out of the original three routes, Heaven’s Feel is considered the darkest story and for good reason. As dark as Fate/Zero? Not certain if it’s that level but we are dealing with some pretty heavy stuff here. For one it’s clear that this version of the Holy Grail war has far more collateral damage than any other. It was said in the background that accidents where happening and people were dying in the background of other series but here it’s gotten to the level of being a massive concern. The people of Fuyuki know that something is going on and more and more incidents are happening. Shirou’s friends are no exception to this as even they are victims of the war. On top of which we got this mysterious creature floating around draining people into comas and the movie certainly shows how eerie this thing is as well as how dangerous. With Sakura being the main heroine as well we glimpse the abuse she has to endure at her home. This is a pretty heavy story for both the servants and the masters with bleak prospects to come.

The movie of course isn’t without flaw. It assumes you have at least seen the Unlimited Bladeworks adaptation and makes no effort to ease in newcomers as it quickly montages things previously covered. Small references to Fate/Zero have been added by Ufotable too so some knowledge of that can help. Despite efforts to improve the pacing of the story there are points of this movie which feel rather slow and rely on it’s atmosphere and soundtrack to carry it. The CGI while well done can be distractingly noticeable at times such as the scene between Lancer and Assassin on the truck. I would even go so far to say that maybe Ufotable over polished it. Also indeed this is a film for Fate fans so those who couldn’t get invested in previous iterations most likely won’t find anything here to change their mind. Naturally as well this film is only one third of a story so it doesn’t end conclusively and only is one part of a story. But for a Fate fan such as myself I loved it and thought it was the best it could ever be. If the other two movies are as good as this we could very well see the Fate anime to call Fate/Zero’s undisputed position of best Fate Adaption into question.

5 Responses

  1. Evaluation says:

    I don’t want to start a Fate war, but I really need to know at this point.

    First, let me articulate my own subjective Fate experiences:

    – No familiarity with Fate games or novels or anything.
    – Seen Deen’s FSN, didnt think much of it.
    – Seen UBW movie, didnt remember much of it.
    – Seen Fate/Prototype, thought an actual good series could have had come out of it.
    – Seen FZ, was much amazed by it
    – Seen many of Fate adaptations and spin-offs and whatever, was annoyed and bored of it.
    – Seen UBW series, was much intrigued by pointlessness and stupidity of it.

    Now I have seen this Heaven’s Feel movie and all I saw was disjointed series of good looking, but vacuous scenes that served no purpose whatsoever.

    I have never felt attached to a single Fate character (excluding F/Z of course) or anything F/SN related – maybe that is my problem. But then, again and again these glorious super true-to-original adaptations come and show me how unimportant and thematically-dry this entire thing is.

    I am fairly sure a single randomly picked F/Z scene of any F/SN character managed to say more about the character’s personality, desires and struggles than all of FSN’s adaptations together. How many times do I have to watch Kotomine Kirei’s useless smirk, that – correct me if Im wrong – is there to only show how oh-so-evil he is. All these reiterations keep reiterating how they have no clue why they exist, while flashing their updated art/animation and novel, cough cough, storytelling approach that will surely, this time, revolutionize Fate universe and change us all into believers.

    So I really must know at this point:
    – Am I missing something integral (from the game perhaps) or is FSN in its entirety one big joke?
    – Why is Kotomine Kirei evil if not to just be evil cause spooky reasons?
    – Why is Shinji so retarded – is that a running joke or am I supposed to take it seriously?
    – Is there a single character that has more than single trait in FSN story?
    – Why is Saber so freakking emo and is it truly supposed to be cringe-worthy?
    – Why is it not socially acceptable to raise these questions?

    • AidanAK47 AidanAK47 says:

      Well to address some of this.

      “– Am I missing something integral (from the game perhaps) or is FSN in its entirety one big joke?”

      Well you say you don’t want to start a Fate war but this pretty much is like walking into a anime convention and asking why all anime is crap. Truly how am I supposed to respond to this? What am I supposed to say to convince you otherwise?

      – Why is Kotomine Kirei evil if not to just be evil cause spooky reasons?

      Well you make notice that Shirou and Kirei exemplify the standard traits of the Superhero and Villain dynamic. Shirou is a normal human who pretty much holds to all the virtues of superman while Kirei is born evil and destined to be evil. But the twist here is that Shirou shows just how utterly broken a human being you have to be to adhear to the virtues of a superhero and while Kirei is practically genetically engineered to be evil, they does not mean that he wants to be. If you examine his actions before the fourth holy grail war you could find that Kirei seemed to be subconsciously trying to find a compromise between his evil nature and being a good person.

      “– Why is Shinji so retarded – is that a running joke or am I supposed to take it seriously?”

      Shinji was brought up under the impression that he was better than other people simply on the fact that he was part of a mage family. Only to find that he is worthless as a mage. So he’s basically a teenager trying to prove his own superiority despite all things pointing to him having no worth

      “– Is there a single character that has more than single trait in FSN story?”

      Actually they are more well rounded than Fate/Zero. Yes, you don’t believe me. But well as great as Fate/Zero is, the story is very straightforward. It is one that leaves no room for interpretation. The things you take from that story are the very things the author intents you to take out of it. The characters are so defined by the plot that if you were to remove them from it, you wouldn’t have any real idea of how they would interact. Case in point, tell me one thing about Kariya which is not related to his tragedy or role in Fate/Zero. Does he have any hobbies? Whats his job even? Meanwhile the characters of FSN can literally be lifted from the plot and thrown into something completely different and it still works. I honestly have difficulty understanding how you consider them to have only one trait unless you are boiling them down to Shirou=Idiot, Rin=tsundere, Illya=loli which is vast oversimplifications.

      “– Why is Saber so freakking emo and is it truly supposed to be cringe-worthy?”

      Emo? Saber is Emo? Guessing you are talking about Saber Alter. Short answer, Grail corruption. You don’t take a dip into all the evils of the world and walk out the other side squeaky clean. In all honestly Alter may be a better character than Vanilla saber. Saber Alter sees her past self (Original Saber) as naive and an idealistic fool. She disagrees with her past self on what a king should be. She believes a king should be feared and hated. You could even consider it a factor of her taking the words of Isekander and twisting the interpretation.

      “– Why is it not socially acceptable to raise these questions?”

      Well it’s not a matter of being socially acceptable but rather the correct attitude to ask those questions. If you are genuinely curious about say, Dark Souls, you don’t walk up to a player of it and ask “Hey why is your game an unfair shitheap with about as much depth as a puddle?” Because it’s rude and well, ignorant because you simply have only a limited scope on the thing in question. True you have watched anime adaptions but there is a lot lost in translation in regards to adaption. Look I am by no means claiming this franchise is perfect, it has many many flaws which I can point out but at this point I would say it’s likely not for you.

    • Evaluation says:

      You responded just like I wanted/hoped you would. So thx. You also do not have to convince me, showing me your perspective is more than enough. I do think that arguing here is inevitably pointless, but I think doing so for just a bit can prove interesting.

      So Kirei is evil for the sake of it. Great. Can you please point me to a single scene in any FSN adaptation where any of his thought-provoking dilemmas are at least hinted at?

      I’d have to be blind to not see Shinji has an inferiority complex. And that’s my complaint. His faces could go toe to toe with Code Geass’ best memes. Every second he is on screen is a waste of time for me.

      I mean the Saber in this movie, that lives and walks with Shirou, wears hoodie, constantly frowns, doesn’t talk 1st half of the movie and acts like a doll-plaything. What’s that all about?

      Well rounded characters huh. No I think I know what you mean. Its the strength of the VN as a medium. And you make an interesting point about FZ characters and I readily agree. Although I don’t think any one of us believes FZ’s is inherently a bad approach.

      So, let me change my complaint, it is the childish presentation of conflicts and (lack of) driving force of the characters that I find fault with here (I think). Lets count all the various emotions characters in this movie are capable of displaying: anger, surprise, smug.

      They keep doing these smug faces, as if the series lacked self-consciousness. “Ha, what do you think you can do with a stick” is hardly a meaningful line (and it could be if the full weight of his mastery of magecraft was made apparent (like Tousaka’s in FZ) instead of making him overly-evil old dude that talks too much). In fact virtually all of Matou elder’s lines are like this.

      In the end, I think I’ll never be able to judge any Fate (SN) without playing through the game, although I think I’d still feel roughly the same about the adaptations. Perhaps they are simply a cream for those who are already familiar, like Eva Rebuilds. But I think the work still has to maintain a level of intelligence and I have serious doubts about that with this movie.

      • AidanAK47 AidanAK47 says:

        Well alright, I don’t mind having a bit of chat about Fate.

        On Kirei that’s actually rather difficult as funny enough Heavens Feel is the route where he shines in the main game and this dilemma is brought more to light. His general motivation for assisting the Grail is connected with his dissonance as a character and one of the big evidences to this is regarding his wife which is also covered in Heavens Feel. SO in regards to hints in the animated stories I would point to Fate/Zero where Kiritsugu was researching the masters and remarked that Kirei was well on his way to becoming a valedictorian but dropped off that path to become an executor(Heretic hunter) instead. Why? My theory is that subconsciously Kirei took that path because as an Executor he could make people suffer while, at least in the eyes of the church, being morally right. Also on how Gilgamesh pointed out that Kirei views his own happiness as a sin.

        I am certainly not going to deny that Shinji’s a bit too over the top and designed to be hate-able. Again heavens Feel has a role for him considering his connection to Sakura and there is a thing where Shinji wouldn’t be quite the little shit he is if it wasn’t for his grandfather and circumstances. There was once a time when he was friends with Shirou and as this movie remarked, he does like Shirou as much as he hates him. Like it pisses him off that Shirou allows himself to be used by other people and admires him to a degree but at the same time hates that he admires him because it makes him feel inferior. Its subtle but you may notice that when Shinji tells Shirou to clean the archery range, he gets pissed off when Shirou agrees to do so. Almost as if he wanted Shirou to lash out or straight up refuse.

        Oh…I didn’t quite think it was that bad but to her is coming straight after the events of Fate/Zero which she left in pretty desperate straits. I think she has some right to be gloomy.

        Fate/Zero’s approach isn’t bad, far from it. Indeed I would consider it a strength that Gen can pace his stories so well and keep them focused. It’s effective for short stories or stories with a large cast of characters which doesn’t have the runtime to flesh things out. It proves to be a weakness through when he goes for longer works with Psycho Pass being a prime example of how his weakness with characters can prove undoing.

        I have skipped though the movie just now and I am afraid I don’t see what you mean by the characters only being able to display anger, surprise and smug. There’s a lot of subtle motions going on in the animation. Like Taiga talking to Sakura about how Kerry was Shirou’s hero and asking if Sakura had some hero of her own causing her to play with her ribbon and almost seems like a callback to Kariya. Sabers eyes wavering when Shirou mentions about Sakura going back to a normal life and Saber sees the same symptoms in Sakura that she did in Iri. Taiga reminiscing over a picture book. Zouken asking Shirou about Einzbern kindly once he heard that he was an Emiya but dropping it the moment he knew Shirou had no idea what he was talking about. Sakura’s awkwardness with Saber because she knew that she was a servant. You may not see it but there is a lot of emotion here besides outbursts. As for these smug smiles…I see smiles but not quite the smug.

        I don’t expect the Game to change your mind, even more so if you are not a fan of Visual Novels as it is a pretty niche genre and I think you would be better playing something new than something you know 2/3 of the story of. Not everything can transfer in an adaption nor should it as I don’t think these adaptions would benefit with Shirou’s continuous inner monologue. But it is important to note that Fate/Stay Night was never intended to be anime. In fact it was never intended to be broken up like this either which does make it like we are getting only pieces of a story. Fate, UBW and Heavens Feel are all part of a complete package, never intended to be separated or viewed as separate entities. And here we have a Third of a story which in turn is the Third of a full visual novel.

        • Evaluation says:

          Sorry for my late reply.

          I have rewatched Fate Zero recently and could see the things you mentioned. I love Kirei in FZ. But still, having none of FSN out there (FSN, UBW movie, UBW series, HF movie 1) to touch on this matter and merely presenting Kirei as an antagonistic force makes me uncomfortable and disinterested.

          “it’s subtle but you may notice that when Shinji tells Shirou to clean the archery range, he gets pissed off when Shirou agrees to do so.”
          That is not subtle at all. The movie throws it in my face; ‘look at me how subtle I am’. Subtly in your face is an oxymoron. Its similar to when the show pretends to criticize fanservice, to cover the fact that it just gave you fanservice. Anyway, the portrayal and behavior of this character is so extreme I can not take it seriously.

          Again, I somewhat disagree about the subtlety of the presentation of character’s responses. What you call subtle is simply (intended) lack of accompanying music. Making the obvious silent doesn’t make it any less subtle, why doesn’t studios like KyoAni and Ufotable get this is beyond me – they just overuse the ‘silence’ technique for the ‘wow’ effect.

          “Ha-ha-ha-ha. I don’t recall saying single word about whether I myself had lost.” – is just one of the many cringe-worthy lines the movie offers.

          I have quick-compiled some screenshots here: https://imgur.com/a/mWd0pZT. The images speak for themselves. Most of the movie Saber – no – virtually every character constantly frowns. It’s as pervasive as it is silly. And the smug faces are plain as day. I can see the movie is trying to slow down and come off as meaningful and evocative frequently, but how am I supposed to take it seriously when characters all play a pissing contest with each other and have the same ‘oh so serious’ or ‘oh your-tears-are-so-yummy’ face?

          I think this goes beyond problems of adapting across the medium or having an affinity to a VN medium.

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Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I do think starlight can be too abrupt though at times and could focus longer on certain things, then again it is only 12 episodes.
Niello
I wish I can edit those grammar mistakes...well whatever.
Niello
From that point on, the show is more of a family drama with problem sparked from supernatural shounen shenanigans, and this is where the show really shines. It turns into one of those story where it constantly change your perspective of the characters as you know more about them.
Niello
The interesting bit is how the first couple episodes give you the impression that it would be a more episodic story with enemy of the week. However, after the initial set up and they went to Hong Kong, it has been focus on one single arc.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: I suppose there will always be a show I missed or didn't notice on the seasonalcharts.
Niello
That's coming from someone who hate the premise. I went in thinking it would be absolute shit. It's still not great, but I'm impress that it has something that still make it worth watching.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Niello: I don't think I know what that is.
Niello
Aguu really surprised me this season. It has tons of flaws, but of all things I didn't expect to see great character developments and dynamics. It's definitely appreciable for how the characters were handled feel different from most anime. The twists are well done as well. It didn't go in the direction I initially expected it to at all. Over all, I think it's actually worth watching.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Come to think of it her name, Hikari, i think it means light.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*like it
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I liked it when a show surprises me like this.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although Mahiru probably had the most backstory to her. Glad you agreed on how they handled the rivalry between Tendou and Claudine (aka Croissant-chan)
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I noticed that and I think it could have been followed up on .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really do love that shot though, it really shows and symbolizes and goes with "how she's lost everything". Actually I liked how the symbolism in this show was clearer at times than expected.
SuperMario
My best girl is Banana. Try to protect all the girls by rewinding the time, Madoka-style? Count me in
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Hikari is best girl, flat is justice never forget *hides*
Kaiser-Eoghan
I hope we see more of that shot from episode 11, the one on the bottom right.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Thanks for covering the show. Probably wouldn't have seen it otherwise.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: i've never heard of the prequel manga. It's still about Karen and Hikari, I suppose?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Theres a prequel manga for shoujo kageki, I haven't read it though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Odd hearing French spoken in an anime series too, I wonder how accurate it is.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking forward to the ending this week.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thought the animation could have been a bit better! The English dub is okayish to me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Surprised how endeared I ended up getting into this show.
Even though I liked the central relationship I wish it had more screentime, but I liked what I got and the expanded focus on the other girls was something I enjoyed aswell so I don’t mind so much.
I do want a bit more followup on that “betrayal” moment though, but Mario as you say, this show does hit its emotional moments.
Kaiser-Eoghan
different enough as not to become stale, the ones that come to mind best for me was the doubles duel and particularly that really goofy one in episode 6.
Eventually even though the show can be a bit vague/meandering, the character interactions had more point than I thought and they grew on me.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On a second go through and now that I’ve caught up with it, the standout for me are definitely all the weird stuff with the stage battles and Giraffe guy, regarding the duels, even though the format of this show is repetitive, the duels themselves feel that they are
Kaiser-Eoghan
I initially put off watching shoujo kageki starlight, mostly down to feeling it was one of those “wait and see” shows, based on the first two episodes. I also at first thought the character interactions were meandering and asinine.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*in an old
Kaiser-Eoghan
And as another random fact, a young Swedish actor from film called death in Venice was the basis for the design of an old shounen-ai manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Now anon, that reminds me, Ash was apparently based off River Phoenix.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: You cheeky fiend =P
Anonymous2824999
If they ever make a live action Banana Fish, they should cast Kevin Spacey as Dino.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I didn't know double decker was supposed to be related to tiger and bunny.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I'll be starting shoujo kageki in a few hours.
SuperMario
Needless to say, while this season has been a bit underwhelming, I have like 3 favorite shows that might end up on my Top 10 of the year list.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Donkey VietKONG.
Kaiser-Eoghan
SUPER-MAOrio =P
SuperMario
Regarding RErideD and Double Decker, I'm in no rush checking them out now. Will do that after this season wraps up
SuperMario
Regarding politic, my dad was a Communist so he was pretty tight-lipped when it comes to the topic. Most of the things I learned from how the system works is by listening to him and his colleagues talk over while drinking
SuperMario
Regarding Ash, yeah it strikes me the same as Ash is is way too perfect in everything (the new talent we found out the last few episodes: superhacker). When he said to Eiji that he never wanted that "gift" in the first place, I honestly don't know which one he was referring to
Kaiser-Eoghan
I may aswell finish it given that that its the last episode.
AidanAK47
So Planet With ends and the madman actually did it. Besides needing a bit more of a epilogue, that was a great finale.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh: I try to understand, make sense of the other sides views within reason.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really want a successful fantasy go on an adventure style show though, I feel like I'm genuinely in the mood for one, I've actually considered watching some old ovas of that nature.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh: The most common thing my father and I talk about is Brexit really and how once upon a time we actually went after tyrants.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And even though I have the God thing, never became a burn the witches kind of person. I do want to put the far right/fascist people in gulags though lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
The Kaiser thing, now that I think about it is actually really odd, I speak minimal German, am no monarchist and am a leftist. Yet even though I hate the bougoiuse , I love aristocratic costumes lol
Kaiser-Eoghan
Then again, it may not be overly odd, there were Maoist priests.
Amagi
@Kaiser-Eoghan: This is pretty common here too. Organized religion isn't popular but most people believe there is a God and, depending on the person and cultural background, that parts of the holy books are true (or not, if they're real agnostics), usually in a metaphorical sense though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*upbringing
Kaiser-Eoghan
That mixed upbringoing of having a communist father and religious relatives is an interesting thing.....for all of the exploitation I watch, I ctually feel nunsploitation is going too far lol I also sometimes check with my dad before watching certain things to make sure it isn't "too anti-left/anti socialist".
Amagi
@Animosh: No problem. I think it depends a bit on how people were brought up decades ago. It's probably different nowadays, no idea. The arguing was kinda fun though, especially for the teen me (I bet I annoyed the shit out of my father).
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet having no regard for organized religion.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I however am a mutt though, believer in some kind of a God to an extent....while also having communist sympathies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh@Amagi: As it stands neither my mother or brother are communists, actually my mother while very left wing would criticize my father when going "too communist". My parents and my brother are the only members of my family who could be considered leftist/non-religious.
Amagi
@Animosh: Planet With definetely needs some sort of epilogue OVA. You can somewhat guess the dragon's story but it's not the same as seeing it and there are still a few of semi-loose strings like the people who are still dreaming.
Animosh
@Amagi: my apologies for my presumptuousness. ;) My mother occasionally also participated in political discussions, but yeah, for some reason it's often men who have strong political opinions and are not willing to admit defeat in discussions.
Amagi
Also I don't spoil anything but the last minutes of the first episode just feel stupid. I think/hope there will be an explanation later for how something has worked so perfectly that shouldn't have worked at all. In general it seems to be a show that tries hard but can't deliver for some reason. I won't completely judge it yet though.
Animosh
Planet With also wrapped up things nicely. Unfortunately the dragon remains a bit underdeveloped, which makes it difficult for me to care about his fate, and I would have liked to see at least the main ship officially confirmed, but other than that it was an excellent finale that satisfactorily ties up all loose ends. This is how you do a one-cour.
Amagi
Regarding RErideD I have conflicted feelings. As said, the premise sounds pretty good but the budget is damn dab, especially for the beginning of a show. There is a scene in which the MC is so badly animated you can't even recognize what's going on at first.
Amagi
@Animosh: funny enough I am female, but yeah somehow these discussions only exist with fathers while the mothers are just trowing the towel and say "fuck it", I mean it usually doesn't change anybody's mind so it's more of a hobby I guess.
Animosh
It's a bit late, but Hanebado is finally giving me what I wanted from the show: tense, well-animated badminton matches. The match does feel a bit rushed, the overexplaining can be annoying and there's still plenty of melodrama, but it's a lot more enjoyable than what we got in the previous weeks at least.
Anonymous2822860
will be seeing what kind of flaws Ash has. Also, I think this way of characterizing him also fits into the narrative. This strength that Ash has is what pushes his gang members away and see him not as a normal human, but a "king."
Anonymous2822860
That was some interesting insight on Ash as a "perfect" person. While I do think that Banana Fish shows that Ash is an extremely capable person time and time again, he cannot win this "war" alone. There's too many enemies and too many things that need to be done. Also, I think as we get further on into the second cour, we
Anonymous2822162
Also, it's neat watching the first few episodes again after what goes down throughout the first half of the series; you get to see all of the characters together before everything blows up in their face.
Anonymous2822162
When I say perfect characterization, I should say I mean the way he's characterized as this perfect supremely capable person. The other characters do help reveal other aspects of Ash though: Eiji is his age and allows him to be a normal teenager; Max is like a surrogate father and lets him act like a son; Arthur and Dino are kind of evil inverses of that.
Anonymous2822162
When I say perfect charac
Anonymous2822162
Anyways, not to hate on Ash because he's still a fantastic main lead and anchors the whole show. It's just that because he loses sometimes I push some of the problems of his perfect characterization to the side, but when you actually think about it, he seems more like a character than a real person.
Anonymous2822162
Also the fact that Ash has been through a super tragic backstory doesn't help a lot: it seems like the writers are trying to make him a character who has been through all the tragedy in the world and has overcome it and became the most skilled person in the world. I will say though that any onscreen tragedy is 100% believable, it just some of the flashbacks that are a bit too much.
Anonymous2822162
I guess that slightly cheapens Ash's character on retrospection: of course he is still the charismatic lead, but he feels a bit too perfect at everything. Dino must have taught him quite a bit, but Ash is skilled in, like, everything. It just seems a bit too much.
Anonymous2822162
Like the whole Yut-Lung Shorter Eiji situation was beyond Ash (in fact he still knew something was off but couldn't pinpoint what); that wasn't really a mistake Ash made, it was just that he couldn't have known the secret connections Yut-Lung had.
Anonymous2822162
Something I noticed about Ash is that he is, as some of you pointed out, a Gary Stu but it doesn't immediately jump at you. The thing is that Ash still loses quite a bit, so he doesn't seem invincible, yet at the same I think the majority of his losses were beyond his control. It doesn't feel like he makes mistakes, rather that other people outmaneuver him due to factors beyond him.
Animosh
@Kaiser & Amagi: I also had lots of political discussions with my father. Didn't know that was such a common occurrence. Boys will be boys I guess? And he's actually a former Marxist too, having grown up in the 60's-70's and all. Now he's just a boring socialist though. ;)
Animosh
RErideD seemed really promising in theory: an original time travel anime written (at least in part) by Abe, with the director of Steins;Gate in charge? Count me in. But unfortunately the reviews so far seem to be uniformly negative. So I'll probably avoid it for now.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Four episodes of RErideD: Tokigoe no Derrida got uploaded at the same time earlier.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Yes, although probably just for the Saturday, usually the best day to do so because thats when the sellers are there, usually everythings gone by Sunday. Friday is generally anime pub quiz.
Lenlo
Its just a saturday, so busy. And Kaiser, nice. Gonna go to the con at all?
Lenlo
As a writer for it, I dont believe so?
Anonymous2818178
is this site dead?
Kaiser-Eoghan
There is an animecon here in two weeks. That eyepatchwolf youtuber will be there.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I still have old single issues of fushigi yugi, inuyasha, Ah my Goddess, narutaru laid around.
Kaiser-Eoghan
They used to realease them like single American comic book issues in the west.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm not talking bound volumes but actual 20-30 pages chapters and these would be expensive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Who remembers RENTING anime dvds and RENTING videogames? Does anyone else remember buying each individual manga chapter as they came out when the official English translations rolled around?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Anyone willing to post their desktop? https://ibb.co/buc4Zz
Kaiser-Eoghan
Or things like Mischief makers .
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know vonter mentioned Mystical ninja 64. But I remember after I'd moved on from the snes to the N64 when I was younger, growing up with that obscure castlevania game on it, or stuff like those 3D bomberman games no-one cared about. Or obscure stuff like body harvest, jet force gemini, blast corps , turok, quest 64 and shadowman.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I love coming across those online lists of literally WHOtier, WHOcares , games literally only YOU liked and heard of/played. Makes me feel less alone.
Amagi
I was also always discussing about politics with my father. Whenever we started with this my mother just said "porca putana" and went into another room to watch tv in peace.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animemosh: lol I have daily political discussion with my Marxist-Leninist father just like that =)
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh I should state, even though I'm not as bothered by the modern setting, I actually do prefer the cold war narrative.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh: The documentries name was Battle of Chile by Patricio Guzman.
Amagi
Especially since I don't think that the typical BF audience is of a kind that would lose interest because a series is taking place in the past. It was just written for the 80s, people can't just change that without changing the story itself to some degree.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh: I thought the anime did such a good job with Shio's backstory , that I didn't miss what was omitted. The anime is now up to date with the scans. I do agree that Satou's obsession with Shio is non-pedophilic but I think the scene itself is kind of going to give the wrong message.
Amagi
@Animosh: one of the many reasons why I would have prefered Banana Fish's original setting.
Animosh
By the way, apparently the backstory of Shio's mother - which supposedly is really tragic - was largely skipped. Guess I'll have to read the manga.
Animosh
I get what they're going for, recreating the ritual and all, but I also thought the Shio-Satou moment was a bit forced. I still think their relationship is platonic though. Satou has never been shown to lust after Shio: she just fills her with warmth and happiness. They're more like messed up siblings than (romantic) lovers.
Animosh
@Kaiser: sounds interesting! Chile is an excellent example of the kind of Cold War intervention that I really don't see happening today. Although you never know with an impulsive narcissist in the White House.
Animosh
End of monologue. Sorry about this. :p
Animosh
Long story short: I think the Banana Fish conspiracies fail to adequately represent the current situation. At the very least, it fits the Cold War world order much better.
Animosh
That includes the US (backing the Kurds and the rebels), but also Turkey and the Arab states (Sunni rebels), Russia and Iran (Assad), and so on and so forth. You can't act like this is the fault of one party. Hell, I'd say Russia and Assad are more responsible for failing to a peaceful resolution when they had the chance.
Animosh
As for Syria, it's a mess, but the US is only one of many parties responsible. And oil isn't particularly important in this conflict. It's a civil war that's been made much worse by the influx of money and weapons from many different parties vying for regional influence.
Animosh
So what does it do? It gives military and financial backing to militias with shared interests (which is much less than Russia does, by the way), orders drone strikes, and perhaps the occasional tactical strike. But overthrowing countries and setting up puppet regimes? I don't see it happening. That's basically declaring war on the other big powers.
Animosh
And even when it does intervene militarily, it rarely goes all out. The US has learned from Iraq and Afghanistan. It doesn't want to be dragged into another endless conflict, or see its efforts end in another brutal civil war that destabilizes the region.
Animosh
So although the US occasionally still intervenes militarily in other countries' affairs, other means of pressure are now more popular. The sanctions against Iran and North Korea are a good example of this.
Animosh
The current landscape is much more complex. America is still powerful, of course, but relatively speaking it is in decline, and that means it can get away with much less. Today's world is closer to a multipolar world, with many sides fighting for influence. And because the ideological conflict is much less pronounced, the US is much less willing to go against its purported values.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh: Coincidentally I recently watched a series of Chilean documentaries regarding the murder of Salvador Allende and the installation of the Pinochet Junta.
Animosh
And that meant both that America was far more powerful than it is now, and that much more intervention was considered acceptable - including shamelessly backing dictators that oppressed and exploited their people. After all, a defeat meant evil would prevail.
Animosh
Obviously the US still interferes in other countries. Quite a lot, actually. But there's a big difference between its current policy and that during the Cold War. Back then the geopolitical landscape was very different. It was bipolar, with two big Isms (capitalism and communism) fighting it out.
Animosh
@anon: not sure if this is the right place for a political discussion, but whatever. I like politics, so here we go.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*was no exception
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Animosh: If, out of the many moments in happy sugar life that I'd consider unsettling, it would be the one's with the aunt and this weeks episode was an exception. That last part of the episode will be interpreted as shoujo-ai bait by people though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking forward to Angels of death next week, I think we're getting answers, glad to get answers on bad guy even if he is a simple villain.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Now this is an interesting coincidence as last night I just got done watching a documentary about cyberwarfare against Iran.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Thats alot more detailed than what I was going to say. I was just going to say that it reflects current foreign policy.
Anonymous2808488
however the current stalemate in Syria is a reflection of the intransigence of the monied elite to not let go of ill-gotten gains, constantly provoking conflict with Russia/Assad/Iran
Anonymous2808488
Its a documented fact the US/EU promoted the Arab Spring/ISIS rebellions and it was stopped by patriots with a conscience
Anonymous2808488
replace with the mexican cartels/Hezbollah, and oil money promised to Cheney-connected Genie enerrgy
Anonymous2808488
its a pretty accurate description of the current reality minus a couple silly things like the mafia and mind control drugs
Anonymous2808488
You guys realize this plot is unfolding in Syria just replace drugs with oil money
Lenlo
Its hokey in the now, but in the original context the series was written, the Cold War, I think it could fit really well.
Animosh
@Kaiser: what felt awkward to you? I thought the pumpkin stuff in particular was pretty hilarious. Eiji is an evil guy. :p
Animosh
Yeah, the conspiracy stuff feels a bit wacky in the present. But in the context of the Cold War, it makes perfect sense. The USA supported plenty of bloody coups after all, especially in Latin America. Hell, they even backed the Taliban in their war against Russia.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In the future I want to make a bigger effort to follow MORE of whats being covered on here seasonally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Red
https://manganelo.com/manga/red_naoki_yamamoto Two history manga, wonder if they'll be fully translated.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine most will probably agree with you anon though. I have alien taste/opinions. I also love conspiracy stuff =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Originally, in the manga version of that part, it was attacking communism in south America.
Anonymous2805624
I don't know; I kinda find the whole Middle East stuff a bit hokey; maybe that's just me.
Lenlo
Im about to watch it. Looking forward to it
Kaiser-Eoghan
I know its only one line, but that they still mention skip and shorter, even its just their names, at least the show keeps them in mind.
Kaiser-Eoghan
With episode 12, Banana fish has successfully contemporized its political/cospiracy aspect for me . Eiji is semi-uselful. Humour in this episode for the first time feels awkward, fast pace kind of means that the quieter slower scenes , though I still enjoy them, feel slotted in.
Lenlo
Most of my emotions this week came because of the original and my love of it, not this one
Lenlo
I agree, Steins;Gate 0 had all the potential, and there are some specific episodes that realized it. Like this episode had a lot of touching scenes cause it slowed down to play up Okabe's relationship with Amadeus. But most of the time, it fails to reach that potential. So as a whole it just feels... lacking
Kaiser-Eoghan
Plebs, not combining both into a single dessert.
Anonymous2802297
I'm talking about that sweet saccharine Chocolate Mousse, the Ganache, or the Chocolate Gâteau. Your puny muffin stands no chance. Mwahaha!
Anonymous2802297
Blasphemy. As a proud American, I can't stand for anything less than pure unadulterated diabetes-inducing sugar in chocolatey cake form. Anything less is an insult to my great nation. /s
SuperMario
@anon2801739: that's a nice analogy but I can't say I agree as I prefer chocolate muffin much more than chocolate cake :)))
Anonymous2801739
Steins;gate 0 is all potential but generally it's wasted. Whenever it actually seems promising they manage to jump plot points to boring nonsensical melodrama for a century. It was supposed to be a chocolate cake. Instead what we got was a muffin with tiny chocolate chips buried few and far between. Yeah it's still sweet at some points, but most of the time you're chewing through pointless fluff.
Lenlo
Like I said in my last post on it I think, the pacing is fucked
Animosh
I did like that the lab members finally acted like scientists again, methodically thinking through their options and all, and there were some pretty touching individual moments and nicely tied up ends. But mostly I'm just annoyed by all the unfulfilled potential of this show.
Animosh
I also hated the backtracking in the beginning. Don't make such a big deal of The Return if you're going to throw it out of the window in the next episode.
Animosh
I really don't understand Steins;Gate's pacing. It slows down to a trickle in the largely irrelevant middle part, and now that things are finally getting somewhat interesting again it just speeds through everything without building things up properly? I don't get it. And how on Earth are they going to resolve everything satisfactorily in one episode?
KTravlos
Reinhard (old series). Ash is interesting and depicted well, but not close to Reinhard. There is something noble in Reinhard, something beyond charisma.
Anonymous2797046
In a charisma battle between our two favorite Blond Boys (doing what blond boys do), who'd win: Reinhard or Ash?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Kind of felt this is what prelude penultimate episode/calm before the storm episode should be and I liked quite liked the ginko and souya scene, but I'm still eh, I shrug at this.
Vonter
After watching some more Star vs. the forces of evil. I'm getting Jitsu wa Watashi wa vibes. The Sailor Moon-like character episode was cute.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bullying arc in sangatsu made me want to shootup the school.
Lenlo
I will admit, the family life stuff is less engaging than the crippling depression, but I dont think that would hit as hard with out the relaxing bits in between. Dont want to overload the audience.
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Hanebado! – 12 [Step Forward Already!]

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