Posted by Lenlo on 23 September 2018 with categories: Banana Fish, Currently Watching:

Welcome to the halfway point for Banana Fish. This week Ash prepares for his final showdown with Arthur, he has some moral quandaries, and gets terrified by pumpkin pie. Lets dive in!

So, general stuff first, Banana Fish’s pacing this week felt a bit fast to me. Banana Fish covered a lot of ground, from introducing new gang members, to explaining Dino’s grand plan and conveying Ash’s moral position. I have said it before, but the fast pacing only really works in the actiony parts. When bullets are flying and lives are at stake. In times like that, the fast pacing helps emphasize how hectic things are. In the slower moments like this however, the fast pacing just feels like Banana Fish is rushing everything. For example, I would have liked more time with the new gang leader Cain, assuming he is going to be a semi-important character later on. It doesn’t hurt Banana Fish much, because the actual content being rushed through is still good. I just think it could have been better.

Now, onto the meat. One of the big things I noticed this week was all of the differences between Ash and Arthur. The two have been built up as rivals this whole series, with lots of jabs towards Arthur’s leadership abilities so far. Now we get actual evidence of this, seeing Arthur in action. It’s clear that, for all of his bluster, Arthur is nowhere near as confident or strong as Ash. He hangs and relies on his people to much, rarely actually going out into the field unlike Ash. Take a look at the two meetings with Cain. Ash came alone, held is own, and stood up to Cain. Arthur though brought bodyguards, clearly afraid of Cain. Ash told Cain what would happen, while Arthur asked. I like that Banana Fish is displaying these differences, because Arthur has taken a back seat up until now.

The other big difference between the two, one I enjoy seeing, is that Ash hates what he’s doing. Throughout this episode we see that Ash doesn’t enjoy killing people, he calls himself a murderer when talking to Eiji. I believe that Ash thinks this is the only way. That this is his world and this is the best, only, method to get what he needs done. It’s interesting to me because it seems that Ash has become much more rash, more… ruthless, since the death of Shorter. And it makes sense, Ash is probably still grieving, and this is his way of getting revenge. It reminds me of the Requiem scene from HunterxHunter, from the Phantom Troupe. Grief through extreme violence. I have always loved the tragedy of these kinds of things in anime. It makes my black heart feel for the characters still alive.

Speaking of survivors, Eiji! And his relationship with Ash! It’s a bit rushed this week, as I mentioned earlier, but there are still some nice scenes. I am glad Eiji has begun to be useful, even if only in minor ways, with his photography. He clearly wants to be involved and help Ash, but Ash also clearly can’t make up his mind on Eiji. Throughout the episode Ash is only seemingly happy when interacting with Eiji. Laughing, talking, smiling. We can see him struggling with pushing Eiji away this entire episode. Putting off actually telling him about the flight. Ash knows what he needs to do but doesn’t want to. This is one of the relationships I think Banana Fish really nails, which as the central relationship, is very important.

One of the things Banana Fish has flagged on lately though, is the side characters. Yut and Max work because we learned their history. We have something to base them on, a personality, we are able to judge whether or not an action makes sense for them. However for some revent side characters, this is lacking. Now I want to preface this all with the fact that, we have known these characters for a very short time. Assuming Banana Fish explores them more, and it has time to do this, then this complaint will be resolved. As is though, I want more time with Cain. I want to know what makes him tick , who he is. Since he is going to be the Witness for Ash and Arthur’s fight, it appears he will continue to be important. Here’s hoping he gets more screen time.

The last bit, the most worrying bit, of Banana Fish this week is Dino’s plan. Back when Banana Fish was first written, the 80’s, this sort of Deep State plan would have fit perfectly. It was nearing the end of the Cold War so it was a valid plot. Now a days though, this sort of thing just doesn’t fit the current political climate. That said, I do wish to pat Banana Fish on the back for attempting to update the plot for the modern day. Changing it from Vietnam and South Africa to the Middle East. Heroine and the black markets. I think it is a valiant attempt by Banana Fish. They did what they could with a plot almost 40 years old. Without having read the series I can’t say how much the plot could be changed while keeping the story together. So far though, I’ll accept this.

So overall, Banana Fish did alright. If this is the worst episode of the series, because it went for an info dump, then it will still be great. It broke up the info dumps and plot contrivances with sweet or humourous scenes between Ash and Eiji. I was never bored this episode. Though I was sometimes lost as we jumped from scene to scene. There is one thing I need to mention by the way, that I have mostly left alone until now. Every single episode title is also the title of a book/novel/short story that relates to that episode in particular. Someone put in a lot of effort for this, and I love it.

But what did you think of Banana Fish this week? Ready for a break, as we switch gears between cours? Let me know below!

13 Responses

  1. qwerty says:

    As a show on its own, Banana Fish is pretty enjoyable, but as an adaptation, there are all sorts of unsatisfying bits. The manga just blows it away because of added character nuance, a more extensive worldview, and it’s plausibility as a post-Vietnam story versus now. The anime is still enjoyable, so I’m not dragging it…but I see heaps of lost potential. Because the manga really is that good.

    • Chii says:

      I really dislike trying to compare this anime to the manga. It’s just an unfortunate fact that this anime didn’t get more than 24 episodes to work with. And because of that, MAPPA is doing their best to tell a complete story that really did deserve more episodes. Granted, they shouldn’t have changed the time period in which the story takes place but it is overall not detracting too much in my opinion. And I say this mainly because the banana fish drug plotline is really not as important as Ash’s struggle. It is merely a vehicle to get the plot running and continue going. I do miss some of the character nuances though…

      The manga is indeed amazing but the anime has its strong points as well. For example, it is actually a feast for those that study cinematography. It has very interesting shot compositions, color palettes that both highlight the mood and foreshadow events, and overall, it just oozes style. The voice actors, Ash’s voice actor in particular, add a lot nuance to their characters. The soundtrack is also masterclass and really accentuates any emotions attached to scenes. For example, I definitely felt the impact of Shorter’s death may more in the anime than the manga.

      So overall I think it’s an unfair comparison. They both have their strengths and that’s why I would just like to recommend the manga to everyone who finishes the anime to get the full experience and decide for themselves which version they prefer.

      • qwerty says:

        I think the anime deserves to be analyzed on its own merits, but it’s undeniable there are huge pacing issues. Even viewers who are unfamiliar with the manga are uncomfortable with it, so it isn’t just an adaptational byproduct. There is a lot of characterization and breathing space that has been removed, which makes the story less satisfying on the whole.

        Certain episodes have done a pretty good job streamlining content, but there are plenty of others where the transitions feel jumpy and forced, like this one. The change in time period has also caused logical issues: for instance, the U.S. government using drugs to establish a puppet state was pretty plausible in the 80s (see MK Ultra), but there are other means to achieve the same
        purpose that would be much more plausible today. Likewise, the 80s crime-ridden NYC no longer exists today. Even having smartphones now makes logical suspension of disbelief much harder.

        The cinematography and OST do deserve high marks, though there are scenes where the music choices have been kind of bizarre, IMO. MAPPA is doing their best, but there’z nothing wrong with calling out lost potential for what it is.

        • Chii says:

          In terms of breathing space, I don’t feel like the manga had it either. It’s just because since we’re reading it, we naturally have the chance to take a step back and let emotional moments sink in. I feel like the transitions between scenes in the manga are just as jarring as in the anime. The anime does make it seem worse because the color palettes sometimes change substantially between scenes while the manga is always in black and white.

          The characterization is a shame, but it’s kind of a trade-off because the voice actors can convey a lot in just their performances. For example, I don’t think people really needed the extra dialogue in the manga when Sing fought against Ash in episode 10 (like the “Flying Dragon Fang”). Sing’s voice actor is doing a great job showing how childish and arrogant Sing can be just with his voice.

          But yeah, I agree there are large pacing issues. However, I don’t think everyone takes issue with the pace. Some people feel it, others don’t (and in different episodes, like I don’t think I saw anywhere else but here that episode 11 felt fast). And there is at least one saving grace with this current pacing: there’s never nothing happening. Banana Fish is a very dialogue heavy manga so I can see people falling off if it were to get too deep in its own musings.

          I also think MAPPA has a good idea of which episodes are really important to slow down and which ones are kind of a throwaway in terms of pacing. Episode 9, 10, and 11 were paced very well in my opinion while episode 7 was god awful. This is because episode 9, 10, and 11 contain more emotional content that needs time to sink in while episode 7 was largely buildup.

          This episode is the same case as episode 7. It’s mostly buildup. And that’s why they actually cut out an extremely vital scene in this episode to use it in the episode 13; episode 13 is important so they’ll pull their punches there. It’s not perfect, but they’re doing their best to remedy that they have too few episodes to work with.

          Like I said, I don’t like that they updated the setting either. Yes, the logical issues are there, but I also would be lying if I were to say that manga did not contain other kinds of logical issues and several moments that I needed to suspend my disbelief for anyway. The anime doesn’t really improve on them most of the time so it just has double the problems in that regard. But in the end, Banana Fish’s world was never supposed to hyper realistic and I think that’s fine. It’s as realistic as an foreigner viewing vast amounts of Western media can make it.

          The soundtrack has been mostly good, but yeah, there were a few distracting music choices every few episodes. I definitely see your point. It could have been a lot more, but I think we should just be happy MAPPA is spreading the love for Banana Fish because this story really deserves more people experiencing it.

          • Lenlo says:

            Some good points on both sides. Personally, I typically don’t like to do straight manga vs anime comparisons, as they are two different mediums. I agree that pacing while reading manga is very different from watching a 24 minute anime episode.

            I will say that, pacing wise, I think its a personal thing. I prefer emotional segments to be slower, to really let it sink in, while the action bits faster to really push how hectic they can be.

            I do want to point out though that, even when it feels “fast” Banana Fish is still great. I have not had a “bad” episode of it yet. I think I have mentioned it in atleast one of these posts, but if the worst thing I end up criticizing Banana Fish for is feeling rushed when adapting 19 volumes into 24 episodes, then MAPPA will have done a good job.

            As far as there being potential, I don’t think any anime can ever be “perfect”. There’s to many pieces to a production. So many hands on deck. I also don’t think a series has to be “perfect” to be a Masterpiece. Especially since personal tastes will always differ on what that “perfect” is.

            I guess what I am trying to say with that bit is, MAPPA is doing a good job and I am glad they are adapting this. Banana Fish deserves, regardless of small issues due to personal taste, it is a good series.

          • qwerty says:

            Accidentally forgot to hit reply – see my comment below.

  2. qwerty says:

    Oh, I’m as happy as anyone that Banana Fish received an adaptation. For all the flaws, it’s an ambitious project, and it’s clear that the staff is trying to do as much as they can with the episode count. Some of the production choices, however, have been questionable at best, and done a disservice to the material.

    While Banana Fish is over the top in many ways, Yoshida Akimi clearly did her research when thinking about the story and the background elements that she wanted to use. That doesn’t feel like the case with the anime: the modern setting largely feels superfluous, and the story elements take a hit for it. It may not hinder your enjoyment of the show, but it does objectively detract from the storytelling. If they wanted to update the setting, they should have taken other liberties to reflect the world we currently live in. Slavishly keeping everything the same (aside from cursory replacements like Vietnam -> Iraq) doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

    I disagree that the manga has pacing issues. If they exist – to my mind, only the last story arc flags a bit – they have been multiplied in the show. I’ve never heard anyone complain about the manga being choppy, but there have been numerous people who feel that the anime speeds by too quickly to feel the impact of what is happening. There’s a balance between too fast-paced and filler; to my mind, the show doesn’t get the balance right a lot of the time.

    Again, I am cognizant of the challenges MAPPA has to work with. If they had more episodes to work with, that would be wonderful. But they don’t. And regardless of the production challenges they face, the show has to be taken at face value.

    • Chii says:

      No, I agree. MAPPA only updated things on the surface which ends up taking away a level of realism that is present in the manga. The storytelling does lamentably suffer a bit but I think most people who know the nuances behind why it does also know that it is a byproduct of a single controversial adaptation decision. In the end, the amount the updated setting bothers viewers will depend on personal tastes. And while it does not hinder my enjoyment much, I definitely do wish that the anime kept the 80s setting, if only so that no criticisms or grievances could even be made on that front.

      I wouldn’t call them pacing issues, though I do agree that the last two arcs dragged a bit, it’s more the shifts between scenes were sudden in the manga as well. And that’s where anime only viewers might have issues with the tone being all over the place in a given episode.

      I will have to disagree on the anime not allowing its audience to feel the impact of what’s happening. Most people definitely felt the hit of episode 9. And those that didn’t probably had more issues with the logic of scene than the length of it. I do think that episode 10 could have done better in regards to its emotional impact when Ash found Shorter’s body though. But I also believe this could just be a byproduct of watching the series weekly since I’m sure for most manga readers, it was largely a binge read.

      @Lenlo
      Thanks for your perspective as an anime only viewer. I agree; I would never use the would “perfect” to describe any anime/manga and Banana Fish is definitely far from it. However, it is probably the most memorable work of media I have had the chance to experience and for that, it is nothing short of amazing. I hope the anime continues to do it justice.

      • qwerty says:

        These are all good points you’ve brought up, and in the end, I think we share similar opinions on a lot of things. I think Banana Fish is an amazing, memorable story, and I’m very happy that more people are discovering it through the anime.

        With regards to transitions, it works on the page in a literary sense. The anime goes for a cinematic style that is well-suited to the series, but I wish they had a little more discretion when it comes to choosing what dialogue and scenes to keep. For example, let’s talk about episode 9. The scene with Shorter at the end of the episode was brilliantly done, from the animation to the voice acting to the choice of music. However, the banquet scene with Dino was not: the humorous asides with Max and Ibe work when reading the series, but in an incredibly serious scene and episode, those asides are incredibly dissonant. That isn’t the only time I’ve felt the staff could have used better judgment, though it is a major example.

        I’m giving the anime credit for scenes that are brilliantly done too: Eiji’s jump, Shorter’s death, and Ash grieving over Griffin. The anime is good on its own. I just want a little more consistency in their handling of the material, because when they do a good job of it, the show sings.

        • Chii says:

          Yeah, for all the anime’s faults, I am glad that it introduced so many new people to this amazing story. Additionally, I’m sure plenty people who have started watching this anime will pick up the manga when it is all over.

          I agree with the banquet scene. I did not like that they kept the Max and Ibe cut-ins because the tension ramped up the moment Ash stepped into the room. It’s true that they have definitely chosen to keep a few suspect scenes. But at the same time, they have made the right call cutting other ones. For example, while some people might not have liked that they cut the buildup to Cain’s introduction in this episode, I actually really disliked that scene so I’m glad it was removed. I can only hope that they will make the right call for the rest of the material because there are definitely more lines/scenes coming up that I would hate to see again.

          Yeah, I think we can both agree that the show is hitting some really good points but can do better. It’s just such a shame the anime didn’t get more episodes. As much as I wish they would make better decisions with the material, I am really just praying that anime does not end in a train wreck. The second cour is going to be rough considering at the end of this episode, we’re halfway through volume 8 of the manga and at this rate, they almost need to adapt an entire volume per episode. And just when all my favorite arcs are here, they might have to rush through everything…

          • Lenlo says:

            Seriously, were only 8 volumes in? My goodness, that does not bode well. One of my favorites series out there, Monster, had 18 volumes and got a 74 episode adaption.

            As for being anime only, Banana Fish has definitely made me want to read the manga. The only reason I have put it off is so I can finish the series as I started it and not spoil myself. Can’t wait to read it.

            As far as modernization, I do agree its starting to become a detractor. At first they used it well. People had phones, they used their mobile phone either as a map or to look up newspaper articles. It worked. But not its starting to feel outdated in places. Like I find it hard to envision a sort of “Honor among thieves” that Cain seems to have in a New York Race Gang. And the whole Puppet State with the Middle East, as I said in the post, just doesn’t fit the modern political climate.

            I recognize the challenges MAPPA had when adapting these segments, but I am starting to wish they had made Banana Fish a 1980’s Period Piece instead of a modern rendition.

          • qwerty says:

            I really hope they do pick up the manga. It’s a classic for a reason.

            You know, I really disliked the scene in Harlem before Cain’s introduction too. It was incredibly uncomfortable to read. I can’t recall any other scenes I’d like to see removed in the next few volumes – which ones are you thinking of?

            I felt that Cain’s introduction was a little too sudden, though (again with the transitions). They could show Ash arriving in Harlem without all of the preamble with the guys on the street, and that would have felt like a more satisfying lead-in.

            When I heard that Banana Fish was getting 24 episodes, I was a little shocked. Even 36 episodes would leave a lot of things on the cutting room floor. I know a lot of people don’t care too much about side characters like Nadia and Jenkins (they’re not personal favorites, either), but I think they add to the sense of depth the series has, so I wish there was more room to include them. Even Charlie gets a little development going forward in the manga.

            @Lenlo
            I think part of the setting change rationale was to make the series more accessible to modern viewers. But I think a lot of the topics that BF hits on, like abuse and political maneuvering, are still relevant in an 80s time capsule.

            With 24 episodes, I’d prefer that they omit parts of the story rather than attempt to rush through everything. Let’s see how the second cour turns out.

  3. Chii says:

    @Lenlo
    Yeah, considering we have 19 volumes to go through total, it’s really not a good sign. But I will have faith in MAPPA, they seem to love the material very much so I want to believe they won’t make it end in a rushed catastrophe.

    I hope you enjoy the manga when you do get to it! I don’t blame you for waiting until the anime ends to pick it up.

    I think we all lament that it’s not still set in the 80s… At this point, I’m just trying to ignore all the logical problems it poses because it really isn’t Banana Fish’s fault. It’s all on MAPPA as a problem with the adaptation.

    @qwerty
    Definitely. I usually don’t read manga since I tend to lose interest very quickly but Banana Fish gripped me from the beginning to the end. The only parts that got a bit tiring was the action in the last two arcs. It definitely has a lot of problems related to the time period in which it was published in though, some of which the anime cleaned up and some of which haven’t been.

    There was a scene with Ash and Eiji, which for the life of me, I will never know why it was translated in the way that it was, but Ash used a homophobic slur. The scene itself is fine, but that line really needs to be taken out. Also, Ash can get really graphic when describing his sexual assault sometimes… episode 11 cleaned it up nicely, I hope they continue to do so for the other times he talks about it. There are a few other instances which I hope are just cleaned up. Overall, I can’t recall scenes that need to be completely removed.

    That would have been nice. But I still think the transition will end up abrupt either way because the color palette will probably end up switching around 3 times in the span of around 5 seconds if they did that.

    Agreed. This material really deserves more time to breath. But considering the state of the anime industry now, it is hard to create such long productions that might be unprofitable. It’s a miracle Banana Fish even got an adaptation in the first place. Nadia and Jenkins have definitely been completely sidelined while I believe Steve has been completely cut (I think he was supposed to show up this episode but maybe they’ll introduce him later). But to be honest, Jenkins is boring and Nadia… well she can still get some screen time later and if that part is kept, I think that’ll be good enough. I’m kind of hoping they don’t cut out Charlie’s development but if they do, I don’t blame them.

    I agree that I would rather them cut out the fat than try to stuff everything in. But with the way MAPPA is going about it so far, I think they’re doing a mixture of both. Episode 11 omitted a lot of scenes while episode 12 stuffed almost everything in.

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Amagi
I just learned to accept Zombieland Saga again after the fuckup since episode three since some of the following episodes were pretty good despite the idol stuff and being rather formularic, both the last two killed my hopes yet again and not hoping for too much considering the problem of the latest episode isn't fully solved yet.
Amagi
I dropped Uma Musume after five minutes
Animosh
@Kaiser: Shoko's arc will apparently be covered in the upcoming movie. The remaining episodes will only focus on Kaede.
Anonymous3197172
Unlike Uma though, Zombieland doesn't have Granblue codes in the BDs this time, so it might not reach those same sales heights. Makes you wonder if Uma did well in Japan solely because of the codes.
Anonymous3197172
Granted, like Zombieland Saga, I didn't hate it. But unlike Zombieland where it became what it purported to parody, this was exactly what I was expecting it to be. Safe and really dull.
Anonymous3197172
And to top it off, they included SSR codes for Granblue with the BDs of the series as a form of cross-promotion. That managed to maximize sales for the series. Not even Zombieland Saga was this obviously safe.
Anonymous3197172
Let's see, it's a sports anime complete with the stereotypes you'd expect, a CGDCT show, a moe anthropomorphism series where the horses are girls, and an idol series with most of the trademarks of that genre (yuri undertones, banal songs, creepy fanservice, etc.) and it's a mobile game adaptation to boot.
Anonymous3197172
Of all the shows I watched this year, Uma Musume was probably the safest, most conservative show that I've ever seen this year which took the least risks, and threw in everything they could in the hopes of maximizing blu-ray sales. It's saving grace is P.A. Works' animation, but that's to be expected with even their worst shows.
SuperMario
I haven’t watched the latest one yet but isn’t it a bit too... quick?
SuperMario
What the hell? Only one episode and BF already wiped out 3 bad men?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Unrelated, but I wish more ecchi/hentai genuinely tried to mix in emotions and sensuality even into the more fetishist stuff. I like everything to be y'know sad and stuff.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Seeing that bastard get it in banana fish is so satisfying.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I still wish this show had 24 episodes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't think there's enough time for Shoko's arc though and this episode was rushed.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*in bunny-senpai
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh my God I wanna save the sister bunny-sepai =<
Anonymous3196773
All 3 of BF devil trio are out :) Now we have to deal with Foxx as final boss though? Not sure about that
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: I enjoyed what I read of gunsmith cats but I've only read parts of it, not the whole thing, I also saw its prototype riding bean which was schlocky fun.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: I'm honestly not sure. But I'll say this, wasn't there some campaign to get a new gunsmith cats anime out?
Animosh
I wonder where they're going with Yut Lung though. I expected Ash to kill him in a mad fury over what happened to Eiji, but his conversation with Blanca (about finding love instead of being ruled by anger and hatred) suggests that some kind of redemption may lie in store for him.
Vonter
@Kaiser-Eoghan How is it compared to Gunsmith Cats?
Animosh
I knew Banana Fish wouldn't go through with Eiji's death. But hey, at least it looks like Golzine is finally dead! Although I really wish someone with more of a history with him had done the deed. Or you know, someone with some actual personality. Foxx is such a lame blend of villain tropes I wish he would die already. If he really ends up as the final boss of the series I'd be pretty disappointed
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: Its possibly because its so old. As for myself I've only seen the first series and read a few volumes of the manga, what I followed was largely episodic.
Vonter
@Kaiser-Eoghan - It isn't as heavily marketed, I wasn't aware there were that many. It's this a niche series?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Vonter: There are several films live action and animated and three anime series based on it.
Vonter
The new City Hunter movie looks great. It seems to have buddy cop vibe. Were there only OVAs or did this manga ever got a TV series? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRFrmaZa1OY
Animosh
Oh right, that makes sense. Heh.
Lenlo
Ha, you merged his names.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Ah, that is the curse of watching an episode a week, forgetting things like that, can't believe I couldn't remember that.
Animosh
Eh, Kurahara. Where did I even get that name from.
Animosh
@Lenlo: he's a reporter. He's one of the people interviewing Fujioka in episode 7 (or more precisely, he's watching him being interviewed). He also seems to notice Kakeharu then.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Or maybe a washed up former runner from years ago?
Lenlo
Im sad Kaze Fui has a 3 week break, but cant wait for January now. As for the guy at the end, I want to say he is probably a reporter of some kind? Kurahara was a good runner in highschool and seemingly quit, yet is now running for a no-name team. Thats a scoop
Kaiser-Eoghan
It was pretty tense actually.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I didn't cry during that scene in made in abyss, you know the one where riko freaks out, the arm scene. But it was somewhat stressful.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I haven't come across ojisama to neko. Perhaps I'll read a few chapters of it.
Amagi
Hope they will do a first season of it by turning it into a 5 minute anime now. I mean it has an old man who tries to be the best father for his pet and it has a CAT, what else does a series need to be successful in the age of the internet?
Amagi
I didn't know Ojisama to Neko was a hit. The series is so cute that every harmless piece of seriousness makes you feel like crying, it's pretty good but didn't expect it to be popular. Seems like it sells around 350k copies.
Amagi
There are so many movies or anime that kill tons of characters and throw in even more tons of cry scene and I am still unable to feel anything.
Amagi
MIA showed that it is always about how you depict a death scene and not so much about what's actually happening. I usually want to be sad whenever I am supposed to feel sad but it doesn't work. I had to cry during the MiA scene though even though it was "just" about some kind of pet, because that character lost her humanity long ago and suffered, so death was actually a good thing here. But still.
Anonymous3189472
I guess we'll have to wait three weeks for the second cour to find out.
Anonymous3189472
I really wonder who that guy at the end was though. He seems to have some beef with Kakeru judging by that look.
Anonymous3189472
Man, seems like the next episode of Kaze ga won't air until January 8. I was really getting invested in their continued training, even through rough weather this episode.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Although definitely different and admire it for that, the stage like aesthetic of dogville didn't work for me. He did do comedies though such as boss of it all, the idiots and some of Kingdom .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I always thought he could have fleshed out the first half of melancholia more, but it really gets going in the second when she really starts re-lapsing, I loved that part.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: You gave dancer in the dark 4 stars though.
SuperMario
My favorites are Breaking the Waves (although I do need to rewatch it), and Melancholia (mostly because there's a hint of hope at the end). Dancer in the Dark is so stupid I freaking hate it. Dogville, AntiChrist are depressing and Shia Labeouf and the ending kill Nympho for me
SuperMario
@Kaiser: can't wait to see the House that Jack Built, although no release date here yet. Lars Von Trier is like depressing drugs. His stuffs are goddamn depressing
SuperMario
@Kaiser: she was like "omg MARIO, you're serious crying while watching a TV show?" well, she invaded my privacy and still had the guts to say that huh?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Matt Dillon is great in it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Also, I saw the new Von Trier film, the horror one House that Jack built, its an acid black farce comedy that never takes away from the darker elements of it or the violence, even if it isn't as violent as people are saying. I loved it, even if it went off on tangents sometimes. My favourites by him are this, boss of it all, dancer in the dark and especially antichrist.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*their
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: What was there reaction out of curiousity?
SuperMario
*Catch me right at the act
Kaiser-Eoghan
And visually it is immersive.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Made in abyss does depend currently on what its second season will deliver and it does start out in a way that you kind of need to make it passed the first few episodes to really get into it. But it flows better than the manga and THAT scene in the middle and Nanachi's backstory elevate the series to a higher level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
BabyMario as in like super Mario world 2 =O
Kaiser-Eoghan
=O BabyMario
SuperMario
True (shameful) story: when I watched the finale of Made in Abyss, my housemate opened the door to ask me sth and she saw me sobbing like a baby
Lenlo
Made in Abyss was really damn good
Sash
I just recently watched Made in Abyss.... and i cried real hard. I was worried that this story was going down the loli route at first... but how this show frightened me... and how it pulled at my heartstrings at the end.
Amagi
Also being immortal would meant that I finally had enough time to finish all the games and series I am interested in.
Amagi
@Kaiser: the hate against immortality is overrated, I would totally be okay with observing history for centuries.
SuperMario
@Kaiser: yeah, it’s supposed to be the final one that closes the whole franchise
Kaiser-Eoghan
Theres going to be another euphonium movie next year.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I say sit back and just let it wash over you if you get on board with its slow rhythm.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The soundtrack is pretty understated aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also quite naturalistic in how it uses/animates movements/body language.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do wish that it went further than baiting the audience though.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*is in
Kaiser-Eoghan
I watched liz and the bluebird, the storybook segements give the film a certain magical feel to it, even if they feel obvious and on the nose, what this film achieves if in its silent, quiet and visual exposition rather than spoken words, its also more sensitive and low key than Euphonium.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Gah, one of the gutting things about being into historical stuff or stuff about things that happened decades ago, is that I'll never be a direct witness to it as it happened. It'll never hit me as someone who lived through it. I having all the fun second hand.
SuperMario
Thanks, Amagi. They look pretty cool
Amagi
Why would I waste my time watching other people shopping or working. Not to mention that the scripted part turns everything worse than it usually is by shoving in terrible cringy moments everywhere to.. don't know. Entertain(?) the audience or something.
Amagi
I mean unless you want info dumps you watch fiction and you watch that because it makes you indirectly experience adventures you can't have in real life. Even when fiction is down to earth it's usually about special situations like the MC becoming a professional runner like in Kaze ga or something.
Amagi
@Kaiser: Me neither, especially because it seems to be the exact opposite of the reason why people consume media, and therefore fiction, in the first place.
Amagi
They probably used these in Irozuko because they look like're part of some J-RPG town.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I never really understood why reality television ever became a thing or how someone could give it any form of attention.
Amagi
Seems like they even have a wikipedia entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trullo
Amagi
@SuperMario: It's some specific type of house that only exist in Apulia. https://cdn.getyourguide.com/img/tour_img-437617-146.jpg - the whole historic disctrict looks like that
Amagi
I shouldn't use so many brackets.
SuperMario
Trulli? What does that mean?
SuperMario
We have all kinds of international film festivals here. I watched Roma in the Latin Film Festival. Yeah that aspect I mus say that I feel lucky
Amagi
There are Trulli in one scene of this week's Irozuko (after they entered that painting), how funny. I just visited this city (Alberobello) last month.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: You are lucky, Roma gets a one day limited release here for one time.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Just imagine going to the west of Ireland and asking them about the internet.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yes there are people turning up to the one art cinema we actually have. But Ireland is not a good place to be in general if you are a film/anime/gaming fan.
Kaiser-Eoghan
lol this country is incapable of giving a proper wide/long cinema release to anything that might even be considered slight non-mainstream.
SuperMario
*week-long
SuperMario
Well, we have a week-log screening here and I already lament how undeserving these films have. Guess I should be more appreciate now I know that other countries have 1-day screening only
Kaiser-Eoghan
I wonder if anyone started out in the light novel industry as a stepping stone before moving on to real book writing. I also wonder how easy it is to get published.
Anonymous3183156
Progressive is good from what I heard since he went back to his older material from a more mature outlook. Ordinal Scale is decent too coming from the same matured Kawahara.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Sometimes there are re-showings, some cinemas will play Akira for the billionth time for example.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I imagine seeing scenes like that being recorded in the recording booth would look quite strange.
Anonymous3183156
Apparently, he even apologized to the voice actress for being subjected to voice a rape scene, so I guess even he has deep regrets about it. The LN doesn't have any more moments like this so I guess he matured a lot.
Amagi
@Anon: The problem is that he was still a teen when he wrote Alicization, he just edited it a bit later. But I also wish he would have cut this scene, it's always so forced and feels so stupid.
Amagi
Pancreas has no subs yet AFAIK
Anonymous3183156
Ugh, ep10 of Alicinization reminded me why I disliked SAO so much years ago. I assume Kawahara still had some nasty tendencies in him when writing Alicinization despite being past his edgy teenage phase.
Amagi
@Kaiser: It's the same here too. One day screenings and that's it. I also believe that anime are made for everyone it's just that the West (save for France and Italy maybe) doesn't give anime a chance. They are sure people would never care so they rather die or air the same awful scripted reality show for the 5th time rather than try showing anime that could appeal to adults like Monster.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The anon might want to watch that though, a torrent of it recently got uploaded.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Also Let me eat your pancreas wasn't shown here. But it was shown in Australia.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Although there are some films that America gets that we don't, the Heavens feel, the Madoka movies and Nanoha reflection showed in America but not here.
Amagi
@SuperMario: That would be great.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Anime films seem to appeal to normies aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I saw an older woman in my screening of Maquia and talked to her after it and she liked it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Again, I don't know about elsewhere, but what surprised me was the amount of people who are seeing these in the audience who don't actually come off as anime fans and probably aren't.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But I'm genuinely surprised that my country would actually even go that far to even show them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I don't know about all the other countries that get showings for these anime films, but here its a one day only thing each time one comes out.
SuperMario
Reviewig anime movies/ making posts about them might be something I can do in the future
SuperMario
@amagi: anime movies are somethingn I wanna raise more awareness as well. Normally each year there are 4,5 solid anime films out there, but like you said they’re hardly discussed
Kaiser-Eoghan
I've never heard of UFO no natsu.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt bad for the little girl in grave of the fireflies, the boy was already caught up though in "muhfascistempire is goat tier" for me to care about him as much as her.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The Air movie was more focused, better paced and visually directed with more panache than the show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Amagi: I have gone to almost every anime screening since the early 2000s and continue to.
Amagi
And many have barely any sort of advertising so I only notice them coincidentally by seeing a thread on /a/ or because I see some screenshot somewhere.
Amagi
Speaking of it there are so many great anime movies every year but nobody ever talks about them because the fans are split between those who see the screenings (that happen randomly depending on the country) and those who watch it a year later on their PC.
Amagi
I also found Hotori sad but it's ages old and I never met anyone who cared about it besides myself. Also, Hanbun no Tsuki and UFO no natsu although these were 6 part ova. Colourful probably too and the Key movies. I actually like all these movies like Air or Clannad but I didn't like the series that much.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think ultimately its the patience some of these sad films are made with that allows then to eventually land their effect.
SuperWooper
It takes a while to get to that point, though.
SuperWooper
"The Wind Rises" is pretty damn sad.
SuperMario
Well, Grave of Fireflies hands down. or Your Lie in April if you don't mind TV show
Amagi
Then basically everything from Shinkai for example.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: You may need to let us now what type of drama you're into, are you okay with highly melodramatic stories?
Anonymous3180985
if so anybody have any good sad anime movies?
Anonymous3180985
anybody here?
Amagi
The more we approach xmas time the more it rains in my city. Like every year.
Amagi
Didn't know that guess I try this someday I love this setting.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The most recent thing I've watched dealing with a created/artificial/virtual world was an old German mini series called World on a wire by Rainer Fassbinder.
Amagi
Wonder about the consequences these last scenes in Gridman will have.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: I finally got around to Aki Kaurasamaki's films, watched I hired a contract killer, I like dry, sad bastard black humour like that and even when it wasn't being amusing I enjoyed the whole quirky tone throughout it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I decided to watch season 2 of sound euphonium before getting to liz and the bluebird. I would like to see more of this. I guess I liked Asuka's arc.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think bloom into you has stood out in how its dealt with Nanami's insecurities and backstory, found myself liking that one side character Sayaka more. There will be an arc where they do some kind of play which compliments/links in well with nanami's character.
Animosh
But yeah, I agree the series has great character writing. In hindsight, it's kind of a shame you picked Irozuku over Bloom into You. It had a great premiere and some stunning scenes, but the characters are so incredibly droll that there's just not much to write about. They're both slow burns, but Bloom into You gives you much more to think about.
Animosh
So I think the crossing the line thing is ambiguous between your interpretation and Yuu's subconscious fear that if she initiates things, displays her affection towards Nanami (and a passionate kiss that Yuu initiates certainly seems to qualify), then that will be the end of things. Actually, it's probably a bit of both.
Animosh
@SuperMario: I think Yuu is also aware that Nanami does not want Yuu to fall in love with her (I mean, it's hard not to after that death stare). And as a result she can never initiate things, because showing affection would undermine the whole reason Nanami fell in love with her. And Yuu obviously does not want this relationship to end.
Anonymous3177625
Did uh that really happen in BF? Probably not, but dang if that really was the case then stuff got real
SuperMario
@Animosh: the thing is Yuu takes the special attraction from Nanami for granted, and her mode is that she “doesn’t hate” it. She doesn’t hate it when she spends time alone with Nanami, she doesn’t hate it when they kiss. So for Yuu, when Nanami askes her to actively do it, it’a the first time Yuu feels like she’s crossing the line. Some really great character writing there
Anonymous3175137
It boils down to a female-targeted version of those moe shows that I don't care about all that much. Just replace the cute girls with hot boys.
Anonymous3175137
Compared to Katsugeki, where it tried to sell the series as something more than just a mobile adaptation and tried to court non-fans, here I got exactly what I expected; something safe and predictable, and catering exclusively to fans. So I got nothing out of it.
Anonymous3175137
Is there some sort of moe equivalent for male characters? Because this show probably counts as one. otoh, my feelings towards it are like most CGDCT anime: indifference.
Anonymous3175137
I think the oddest thing I did regarding anime this year was how I sat through both season of Touken Ranbu Hanamaru (including the one that aired earlier this winter), and didn't claw my eyes out when it's basically an unfortunate mix of a mobile game adaptation and a CBDCT show mixed in with some action segments to show that it's not just a pure estrogen-fest.
Animosh
I should also note that I don't relate to her in every way. I understand her difficulties with falling in love, but for me the problem is more that my view on love is too negative, and as a result I'm hesitant about taking the "leap of faith" that any relationship requires. Love is messy, and may well get you hurt, so it's easier to observe things from a distance, like Maki for example.
Animosh
Oh Yuu is definitely frustrating to watch. Her idealized conception of love prevents her from seeing what is obvious to everyone watching: that she's slowly developing feelings for Touko. And when those feelings evidently turn into love, instead of seeing them for what they are, she's in denial and insists that her feelings aren't special enough to be called "love". It's frustrating.
SuperMario
Then again, I can't really say why Bloom into You works for me now, but kept me in a distance in their first few episodes. It's slow-burn, and when you think back to it, not a lot has been happening. But I feel they haven't made any wrong step yet
SuperMario
Can't say I relate to Yuu thou. She's the kind of character that in real life I would find really frustrated, and I know many of my friends behave that way. That just to further demonstrates how real these characters can be. Even the side characters, Sayaka and the lesbian adult couple work well for me.
SuperMario
@Aminosh: it took awhile for me to fully embrace Bloom into You (I say about episode 5,6) but I agree it's getting very solid now. it reminds me of Scums Wish as well, mainly because how twisted romance can be
Animosh
I'm also worried it won't end in a satisfying way, since the manga is still ongoing. But otherwise I quite like it. It has its problems, but if you go into it with the right expectations (slow pacing, complex and flawed characters that make for an unusual love story, with more focus on the characters' psychological issues than their sexuality) there's a lot to enjoy.
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