Posted on 15 February 2018 with categories: A Place Further than the Universe, Currently Watching:

“I boarded this ship to do catchy, witty, sensational reporting! I want to open the treasure chest of Antarctica that my mother wrote about with my own hands! Everyone, let’s go to Antarctica together!”

Although Universe is a show about the girls heading off to freaking Antarctica, the last couple episodes make it clear that this is more about the journey than the destination. At such, I don’t really mind the lack of “what will happen in Antarctica” plot thread, if anything beside being the place that “further than the universe”, the show need to tell us why it attracts people in the first place. Everyone has their own motivation to go to the South Pole, as we’ve already seen in the girls; and this episode again shines in how they bring the adults’ goals to the table. As a result, while this episode takes place in Australia, unlike Singapore last week we just have a little glimpse here and there about the place, given the central setting of this episode is the ship itself and the people who board on that ship. This expedition just barely makes it there: they lack the supply, the people, the funding. What keeps this ship staying afloat is the determination of the past members – broken people. The people who give up part of their lives, the people who have lost hair, have gotten divorce, have lost the jobs and might have nothing when they return, yet they’re here in pursuit for this trip.

The first half runs much lighter in tone as we see the girls snooping around spying, led by our formidable Yuzuki that lead to some hilarious situations (I love how Hinata couldn’t care less about all this, just look at her in the screenshot), and how Shirase just keeps getting worse doing her sensational report (she’s as stiff as the wood, man). In addition, at this point I enjoy the girls’ interactions greatly, all their stupid hijinks together have such natural chemistry (like how Mari and Hinata always in synch when it comes to prank, or just look at Shirase’s multiple expressions while she was holding a stuffed bear).

There’s a solid reason behind their spying though, up until this point the expedition has been received negatively by the media. They are lacking in everything, and even some of the crew doubt about their chance of accomplish anything. The more they investigate, the more they realize that it was Shirase’s mother determination that started it all and Gin and Kanae, and the group at large want to fulfill what she started but couldn’t finish. Universe makes us realize that sometimes, these ambitious quests come from a very personal dream. Shirase’s mother is the heart that keeps these people moving on, or to be more precise, keeps them from moving on, given parts of their soul remain in Antarctica forever. And if Shirase’s moving speech at the end is any indication, that spirits will continue to live on for generations.

Posted on 8 February 2018 with categories: A Place Further than the Universe, Currently Watching:

Are you serious girls? Durian ice cream is damn delicious. Durian is THE KING of fruit. Not kidding!

Now that our girls are heading out of their nest, and literally in the middle of their journey, it’s obvious that Universe need to create some kind of conflicts for the girls. But I say this, Universe knows how to pull a compelling little drama, mostly because those dramas still focus on developing the core members. While I’m not too fond with the end result where everything reverses back to status quo, the way Universe explores the relationship between my girl Hinata and Shirase through their contrasted stubborn view is so well-developed. The tale of this week is one of the most common situation first-time travellers find themselves in – lose their passport or their money. Actually, the show is pretty spot on in detailing many pitfalls new travellers always make: making noise in the airplane, buying too much souvenir stuffs, eating overpriced foods, storming into tourist spots… I have travelled a fair bit myself and I have been in Singapore a few times so I’m happy to see that Singapore’s many famous attractions are accurately portrayed and all the details (like the flights, the hotel) are depicted exactly like in real life. And yes, durian is a big thing here in SEA countries. Don’t judge.

The conflict arises when Hinata can’t find her passport (in one of the show’s great quirk about Yuzuki can see through her friends whenever they’re lying or hiding something – must be because she’s an expert of acting), which might lead to the delays on their next flight to Freemantle, which in turn could result in them not be able to get on the ship on time. Although there’s no denying that it’s a forced plot just for the purpose of creating some conflicts, what grab me into this little drama is the two girls act the way I WOULD ACT if I fall into either one of their shoes. Shirase tends to freak out when her plan doesn’t go the way she wants, and going to Antarctica has been her top priority. Hinata understands that and she doesn’t want to bring her friends, or her pride, down because of her own mistakes. Even me in real life I have the same kind of mentality like Hinata, where I feel uncomfortable knowing the others being considerate of me instead of what they really want because I can’t tell what they think anymore. It’s like a veil of friendship’s obligation that cover the honesty and then things just become more complicated than it should be. Of course it isn’t that strong a reason enough for me to quit school (Hinata has balls), but I can get behind her decision not want to be a burden to her friends.

But being said that, I totally feel for Shirase’s side as well. Obviously, setting foot into Anartica is important, and they’re so close to achieve that dream, goddamnit; but it’s not the only important things for Shirase. Going there together with friends worth so much more and what is a more meaningful way to spend a million yen over a friend’s bad deed (and yes, Shirase’s argument has more weight because she has a big stack of cash and a big stack of cash does solve everything). For me, the show comes up with the best option for her to use what she had been saving up for years in an anti-climactic yet wholly satisfied fashion. So imagine my disappointment when the money eventually got back to Shirase in the end. Never mind, while this episode is clearly just a stepping stone for a big journey coming, I’m still happy with what we have here. Seeing Singapore in anime is a huge delight and Universe never forgets to throw our girls into some kind of trouble, because simply overcoming those troubles will make them more mature, and what doesn’t kill them will make them stronger.

Posted on 2 February 2018 with categories: A Place Further than the Universe, Currently Watching:

When you embark on a new adventure, you leave behind all the things normally tie you down. It’s one of the central theme of Universe’s this week episode. Bravos to Universe who manages to scratch an itch that we don’t know we have. Not only Mari and her friends saying goodbye with their normal routines, they are breaking chains with all the established relationship at the same time. Not in a bad way since Mari was over-reliant to her friend Megumi up to that point. Honestly, I didn’t see the final confrontation between Mari and Megumi at all, but it was a welcome surprise. This conflict is emotionally charged and directly addresses many core themes of Universe. But before addressing that, I certainly relate all too well to Mari’s last scan through her room, then her house before going off to the new place. Granted it’s only three months in her case but the show nails that melancholic feeling. I moved not only interstates, but also overseas a number of times and every single time this was a moment that got to me personally: the feeling of saying goodbye to your “home”, and the knowledge that the next time you come back it won’t never be the same again. But I understand this is Universe’s main message: Breaking free and embrace new changes because when you’re out of your comfort zone, you’re forced to grow to adapt. And that’s is the joy in life, to experience life to the fullest.

Megumi and Mari’s friendship, I should note, had always been kind of unbalanced to begin with, way before we encounter them for the first time. Mari has always relied on her friend, and overtime Megumi just takes that for granted, feeling that she’s a big sis, although technically they are in the same age. So imagine how Megumi feel when that “little sis” won’t stay cute anymore and grows rapidly and begins to surpass her. I do have a feeling that final conflict comes a bit out of left field, but it’s because we don’t see that dark side much given we were entirely in Mari’s perspective. Megumi feels jealous with the sudden shifts of Mari, and wanted to make their life harder so that Mari would notice. All the hints are there (it did cross my mind last week how the hell her Mother/neighbor knew about this, so thumps-up to Universe for a proper foreshadowing), but the girls are too “moron” to even pick up the signal that Megumi was the one behind all that. Or it’s just like how my Hinata mentioned “Don’t fight mean with mean. Hold your head high”. That all those rumors are just so insignificant, that all Megumi’s effort isn’t even worth to unravel. Mari has apparently moved on so much.

But like our Mari, Universe is an optimistic show at heart. All these dark emotional outbursts are only a way to bring out the hopeful sentiments that the very act of admitting that one feels empty and worthless is a right step to change and improve oneself. It’s all about characters pushing others to be a better people. That’s why instead of resenting her friend for what she did, Mari embraces her with a powerful line “Breakup rejected”. This episode is another necessary step of their own journey, and I hope as the show goes further down under, it still remebers to develop our main girls. Shirase will have a chance to know more about her Mother, and from the worn-out shoes I hope there’s more in store for Hinata to develop, even Yuzuki I hope Universe gives more room for her character arc (I only know her through her wanted to be a normal girl and her wish to have friends – I need more). Next stop, Australia (or maybe Singapore? Why Singapore in the last credit?), bring it on and make life crazy, girls.

Posted on 26 January 2018 with categories: A Place Further than the Universe, Currently Watching:

Universe takes another firm step towards the Antarctica trip, this time more about the actual preparation: parents’ approval, training and the likes. We’re still far away from the final destination, and I suspect it’d take a few more episodes before the girls arrive to the South Pole. Not that I complain because these build-ups make this journey much more believable. It helps that the direction so far smartly conveys the tones it tries to bring across. Take the scene where Mari tries to get her Mom’s approval for example. The show knows how to play up the fear of Mari of being caught red-handed for arranging her trip without her Mom’s knowledge (Mari, it’d be wiser to ask your Dad instead). It constantly builds the atmosphere up, and then play out in a spooky playful nature (remember what did the little sister do when they realize their Mom knows? She shuts the door. I’m outta here. Case closed). Priceless. Or take the scene where the girls being underwhelmed inside the old van? Universe shows us not only their disappointments, but the condition of the car: the girls crammed up in small seats, stack of papers about funding, the small note sticking at the cassette telling them it’s broken, an expensive car passing it to put more salt to the wound… Those little details certainly help make this preparation phase more entertaining.

On to the 4-day training trip, I certainly feel related to how clueless the girls are when they have to do the actual field trip. Simple matters like which eye they should use, your left or my left, take note about altitude… the basic of mountain climbing, but there’s always first time for everyone. On that field trip, the girls meet their captain, Toudou Gin, whom sharing with Shirase the same pain: the loss of Shirase’s mother. It creates quite a tense tension between the two, so I expect we will learn more about her mother through their chemistry once they’re arriving to Antarctica. One potential conflict before they’re reaching the destination, though, is how Megumi (Mari’s best friend) feels a bit “uneasy” towards Mari’s plan. She has been the voice of reason for Mari to walk the fine line between “reaching your dream” and “taking realistic actions”, but her warming about feeling regret when you’re trying to hard but not achieving it sound off to me. It’s the opposite, and it’s not like her to say something like that. I guess we will have to wait until next week to see what Universe has in store for us regarding this plot thread.

One of my fear after the quartet is finally formed, is how then they will become less dominant and exist only as the group’s member with no real personality. Well, so far Universe hasn’t fall into that trap yet, given the cast still produces some neat chemistry together, and give both Mari and Shirase some more ground to develop. In Universe, Shirase has always been the one who drives the plot forward, and Mari is our emotional investment. This time again, when talking to Gin, she makes it clear that although Shirase was the invite them to the trip, it’s ultimately HER trip now – the place where she herself really wants to go and explore, along with all the friends she has made. Antarctica show is still looking strong at the moment.

Posted on 17 January 2018 with categories: A Place Further than the Universe, Currently Watching:

“I could just die right now”

That line, spoken by our new member, Yuzuki, bookends this week’s Universe. It marks the shift in the new girl’s character growth. Last week, the Expedition girls mentioned they have a plan to raise fund, right? Turns out it’s not the mother, but the young girl herself, is used as their TRUMP card (bad pun, I know). Tsuhiki Ararararag  Yuzuki is an idol/ child actress/celebrity, so naturally the Expedition Team wanted to use her image as a promotion for the Antarctica trip, in which she feels zero enthusiasm to go. First, I must note about the voice acting of these main girls. While they’re even louder this week (I swear those voice actresses had such a BLAST time recording this), they share a natural forth-and-back dynamic that feel so pleasant. It comes as no surprise, that three of them, Kana Hanazawa – voicing Shirase, the one that need no introduction anymore, Yuka Iguchi (voicing Hinata) and Saori Hayami (voicing Yuzuki) all worked together before in the Monogatari Series (dubbing Nadeko, Tsuhiki, Yotsugi respectively). The other voice actress, Inori Minase, is no slouch either. She played Meteora in Re:Creators (AKA that one character who had to spill all the expositions), Rem in Re:Zero (that captured thousands of boys’ hearts) and most impressively for me, Chito in Girls’ Last Tour last season. These voice actresses clearly have fun playing those characters and so far, the acting elevates the chemistry shared between these girls whenever they interacting to each other.

Yuzuki, our new addition, is as different from the other girls as it could get, especially compare to Hinata last week. While Hinata stops school because she doesn’t feel belong to the big group, it’s the acceptance of friendship and the thrust to live a normal life with her “friends” are what Yuzuki yearns for. So far, Universe has been successful on creating very relatable issues from those girls. Yuzuki’s personal struggle, for instance, is something I can feel attached to. She hates the idea of going to Antarctica, and for good reasons (well, except “cold”). The idea of being pushed around, doing whatever her Manager/ Mommy thinks are the best for her is just plain… frustrating (#Mamaknowsbest). I have a feeling Universe glosses over some serious Mommy issues here. Yuzuki wants to spend more time to study so that she can go to school properly AND make friends properly, since she doesn’t have any friend due to her constant touring. I like the way the shot composition makes sure Yuzuki always situated at either end of the frame, looking out in order to highlight her being trapped in her own situation. That moment where she confesses her struggle, following immediately by Mari hugging her is goddamn effective and touching, another case of simple but sweet. When she realizes that these girls are far from best friends, that they just barely know each other but all heading for the same destination, it hits her that having the same goals, and sharing these experiences along the way together, might be what makes friend “friend”. I’d prefer if “the dream sequence” were true instead, since I feel Universe copped out at the end. Making it a dream sequence has its merits, mind you, given that Yuzuki now realizes that she wants to spend more time with the girls as her buddy; but it would’ve given me much more personal impact if these girls climb up the stairs for real instead.

In term of the big picture, well, after their plan failed last week, I feel that the girls find another solution almost too convenient. Another high school girl will join the Expedition Team, right after they refused a high school girl who is more equipped and willing to go? And that said girl comes up to meet the group no less. I let that slide for now because the girls still have to work hard for the approval, and changing an idol’s mind sure isn’t easy. Apart from successfully introducing the last member of the quartet, what makes Universe clicks the most this week is the delightful interactions between our girls together. Shirase really goes wild this week, in a quirky adorable way. “I’m gradually starting to understand how this girls work” is probably my favorite line of the week. It’s character writing right there. Finally, Universe gives some time to flesh out the relationship between Shirase and Hinata (remember, before that there’s always Mari stands between them) and they spark off some nice chemistry with some thoughtful wise advice from Hinata over Shirase’s charging on to the Antarctica trip at all cost. Those girls so far are a total delight and the coming trip promised to be a whole lotta fun, and lots more obstacles as well. This trip to the place further than the universe is now in sight.

Posted on 16 January 2018 with categories: A Place Further than the Universe, Currently Watching:

I’m glad that this second episode addresses straight out all my worries from the first episode: the actual implementation to make that trip a reality, because boy, it’s no simple matter. Universe apparently does its research, telling us exactly places they need to go, the initial trip ahead and the amount of money they need to raise. Even me who is living in Australia has absolutely no idea that Freemantle is a place to gather the expeditions to board to the South Pole, so that bit is very informative. After all, the concept is about a bunch of 16 year old girls travelling to the place as bizarre as Antarctica, thus if Universe takes it lightly, it will start to lose its sparkle very quickly. But thankfully, the show depicts the girls’ plans and their struggles quite thoughtfully and believably.

Shirase has been on and on about her plan, and with the knowledge about the Antarctica that she has, it’s reasonable for Mari to trust her. Except that knowledgeable and desperate as Shirashe is, she’s still a naive high school girl, and her plan starts to crumble apart in our very eyes. Kudos for Universe for suggesting her inexperience early on (with a sketchy job advertisement), and then as the show continues it’s apparent that she takes the role too big for her to fill in. Mari worries if the civilian Antarctic expedition really allows them to join in, which angers Shirase because she herself knows how tough it is to get in. Her half-baked plan reaches its own breaking point when the plan of getting in the expedition team is to “seduce” male members, something none of the girls is mentally equipped enough to carry out. They failed, of course, but it’s still worth trying.

While I enjoy the chemistry between Mari and Shirase, I’m not that keen on their personalities alone. They serve the story right and they have relatable issues, but they never stand out as particularly interesting or deep characters. Thankfully, with the introduction of the third member, Hinata, she’s more than make up for what the two girls lack. Both bright in her own charisma and she fits the team like a glove, it’s an improvement in terms of characters for me. I like the fact that she has her own route when she declares that she doesn’t go to school because she doesn’t need to. That I can root behind, albeit the reason behind that sounds superfluous for me (that she doesn’t feel she blends in with normal crowd – not that working full time in a convenience store would solve that problem, girl). What sold me about her character, however, is despite her cheerful and outgoing traits, she’s surprisingly observant and she caught on with the girls’ plan even before she met them. You had me at “Are you going to… Antarctica”, girl (and despite accusing the other girls for being too loud, she’s the loudest one here). Moreover, right at the end where Shirase failed, she releases Shirase from leader role, an action to release the heavy load Shirase has been taking all along.

But the best part of this episode is when the girls run away from the Expedition team members, for a reason both us, and the girls don’t even know. The story might be about the girls going to the Antarctic, but the underlying theme has always been enjoying the youth to the fullest. Mari runs and smiles because she realizes that her youth “is in motion” makes so much sense. It’s the joyous, the feeling of actually doing and experiencing that counts. At this moment, the girls might be in their dead end, but with the involvement of the fourth girl, whose mother could very well be a famous person/ main sponsor for the civilian Antarctic expedition team, things will turn for the better. I’m eager to see how she meets up with the three girls.

CHANGE USERNAME
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Moreso than the girls death obsession, I thought the stuff with the mother in the first chapter of yakedo has the potential to go in a more messed up way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But he fails miserably and no one learns from his crimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why can't there be a BENEVOLENT killer character that commits horrible acts solely to shock people and show how horrifying those acts are, out of the delusion that it will inspire a reflection and change in people to NOT, to NEVER do those things.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*higher
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe an abused character is a servant in a historical setting with a hierarchy, trapped in societal rules and defeats the obsession with the attacker and raises up against the class system/character of hire social standing that abused them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Perhaps the cannibal killer character in the story has abandonment, severe paranoia and lonliness issues and sees his crimes as taking people inside him so they'll never leave him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
of psychological depth instead?
Kaiser-Eoghan
For the willingness to throw messed up stuff into stories, I wouldn't mind seeing an analysis thrown in, doing a story about a cannibal character? How about instead of just a gore fest, get inside is head and ask, why does he do this? I hate Ntr and its used as a throwaway turn-on involving rape eroticism, but is there any any way that a story involving that could be framed with some sense
Kaiser-Eoghan
Back on to stuff like goblin slayer, they can take out the rape scenes I wouldn't miss them, although I find them less uncomfortable, BECAUSE they are shown as how wrong rape is, instead of say a doujin playing it up for titilation .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite all the talking up of tsunderes, I actually love kuuderes, in the end probably the biggest reason is for how flat chested they are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Slapstick violence always plays second to dry, dark, screwball or surreal humour.
Bokusen
Also, on tsunderes, me too. I can't stand people using physical violence on someone unless it's in self-defense, or a Fate-type scenario where they all know everyone is trying to kill everyone else. Random physical violence played up as comedy is the worst.
Bokusen
@Kaiser Ah, so it was referring to bondage. I was skimming through posts and must've missed that. Bondage still creeps me out a bit, but if it's a fetish thing I can at least understand the whole exaggerated gender roles thing.
AidanAK47
In regards to Tsunderes, yep that was a bad choice of words there Kaiser. But over time I have come to find Tsunderes more agavating. Tsunderes like Rin are fine but those that beat the crap out of the guy they like and are expected to be forgiven cause they get embarrassed can go straight to hell.
AidanAK47
Also who cares who Korra ends up with? She a goddamn horrible character. I hated her so much.
AidanAK47
Korra was a show that had love realistionships come out of nowhere(And not well written in general) but that one really was just pandering to the Korra/Asami shippers. Not sure where the hell that ship came from to begin with.
Lenlo
I agree Aidan, the love at the end of Korra came out of Left field really
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: It was inappropriate and I shouldn't have said it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Heck one of the reasons I prefer seeing another character with another character or a character simply on their own in a fetish situation is because I can distance myself from it and not feel like I'm touching anything/one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If anything I meant role reversal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I apologize, reading it back it sounds terrible, I was actually referring to bondage where the tsundere pretends to hate it initially but consents .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I should state clearly that that is merely a fantasy. The anger on both sides makes it easier because even if things became more physical or intimate it would feel more distant if the talking part was she and myself saying how much we hated it , despite actualily liking it.
Bokusen
"The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place." OK, reading that just creeped me out.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, well you like screwed up stuff so no surprise.
Try Yakedo Shoujo. Get the feeling you will like that one quite a bit.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Legend of Korra? There was no yuri in that one. No evidence whatsoever. They just had Korra and Asami walk into some light and then announced them gay over twitter. Honesty I didn't see it in the show itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Also was it you that recommended happy sugar life to me? That was a pretty good psychological horror manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Going back several messages, I kind of liked goblin slayer oddly.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Read Sakuranbo Syndrome.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: At the same time I really think more series like after the rain need to come out, showing more sensitive approaches.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nudity/sex just isn't used functionally well enough or dramatically as it should. Come on, give us a story about passionette characters, sensual/erotic rather than only porn. Or do a scums wish where miserable people are doing it because saaaaad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
kuuchuu is really one of those things I need to re-watch, I became so much more open to weirder shows in the past number of years than I would have been ages ago.
Anonymous1832169
I think my excuse in hentai, is that despair, and subjugation adds drama to a very simple thing. Though Dawn of the Silver Dragon may be the peak of objectification.
Anonymous1832214
Sure, np, though I must be off. Again, nice to chat casually. Been off forums for a while. Bye.
PS: thank you gift for anyone not familiar https://myanimelist.net/anime/6774/Kuuchuu_Buranko?q=kuuchuu
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lets talk about the spring 2018 anime season chart: http://anichart.net/spring-2018
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mods, I'm sorry for hostaging/dominating the chat like this I'll change subject.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do think official/canon pairings of characters make more sense definitely, non-canon ones can kind of cheapen characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really really want to say though, I totally am not okay with rape in hentai though and I don't like 50 shades of grey.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To get off this subject, funny little random memory here of reading manga in public, back when I was still into fate, some street person sat down next to me and saw a picture of berserk and said "Oh, he's quite ripped isn't he"
Anonymous1832214
@Anon could be
@Kaiser Srsly youd hate Young's Aflame Inferno - narcissistic manipulative elite MC guy plays a sub to a playful manipulative OP demon woman. I love that so much..!
Kaiser-Eoghan
The old artists valued some interesting takes on beauty too, all of those middle aged larger bodies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Someone has read this and gone off and done an Akira x Satan devilman doujin haven't they?
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the beauty and the beast thing, I wonder if characters like Elias from Mahouyome will become more popular. Monsterboys might end up catching on.
Anonymous1832169
Anonymous1832214 - I think so, I mean we paint angels following that idea.
Anonymous1832214
Thx for the talk guys (and girls). Btw. I'm the guy with weird nicks, Evaluation, Strength, Victim, etc in case anyone's wondering.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think regarding role switching and whether I prefer being dom or sub is definately based on which gender I'm playing, this goes back to the cliches of girl=the submissive character man=is the non-submissive.
Anonymous1832214
There's something about androgynous features, is there?
Kaiser-Eoghan
accept of course for the sensei, who looks like one-punchman.
Anonymous1832214
Seems consistent with your preferences towards domination. Open your heart more and feel the love. They cant help themselves. They need you to get it out. Why not play the mature person, not play the game and accept their flawed selves?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Specifically due the ambiguity.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Houseki's character designs and art is fascinating.
Anonymous1832169
I like the idea of women pretending to be men and men pretending to be women. Not necessarily transgender, just in the sense of playing the role like Hercules and Diomedes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hating them makes it easier/better aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place
Anonymous1832214
I wouldnt mind being a dominated by a (good-hearted) Pandora. So I guess I have no idea how you can even say that...
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lol now we're getting into liking certsin things because their so non-pc =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of me taking on a female role and being dominated by a woman is bizzare to me , taking on a female role and being dominated by a man, yes.
Anonymous1832214
Yeah got it. Like Senjougahara? Lol.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But she still holds on to the delusion that she's in control.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Wait, to be more specific, I was saying I liked the idea of making a tsundere girl submit, with the tsundere becoming the sub.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Youngs manga work better than say, something like ikkitosen/highschool dxd/seikon no qwaser/highschool of the dead because they go all out with the exploitation .
Anonymous1832169
I do see a correlation between the feminine guys in yaoi and the token girls in otome. I swear I don't get why otome and other young girl series, like to play the bad boy and misogynistic treatment of women. I think they we might have lost the point in Beauty and the Beast.
Anonymous1832214
Kaiser... do you know Im Dal Young's manga? Freezing, Unbalance x Unbalance, etc. He often puts the women in the dominant role. He's gotta have a thing for it. I love that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think going back to the complaints of yuri on ice not having enough bite to it, its the same as the fanservice in josei manga with the ambiguous bromances.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a really pretentious guy, I love going into the psychology of it all.
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - As one teacher told me, the most memorable characters are the contradictory ones.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The western side often feels more tokenistic at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The feminine male character exists as a safe zone for the female reader.
Kaiser-Eoghan
No wonder I enjoyed haru deiteita so much, it did the reversal thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet people don't understand this when I say I find tsunderes attractive, what could be more appealing to me than a tsundere ending up losing the dominant role and becoming submissive?
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I think I like that dichotomy, because since manga is already androgynous one does accept it more. Especially since of anime thread the line of making their male characters submissive. Also in a more design sense it might be because there's a power dynamic at play. That's why there's also harassment.
Anonymous1832214
I also agree that yuri is more established and accepted. Particularly in western media, which are starting to catch up? (lesbians everywhere...) Legend of Korra anyone?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The weirdest thing is from my own perspective, when I play the female role in the relationship I understand taking on a more submissive role, yet in a male role, with a women I find being in a non-dominent role impossible.
Anonymous1832214
@Kaiser I'm not going to defend KnM, valid points. Again, it's done enough. And - I have a thing for tragic/platonic love so KnM clicked...
Anonymous1832169
Yuri can be cold, harsh and seduction is usually a weapon. Though a tiring trope is that most stories treat the couple as kind of sister type of affection. Or so I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In terms of the pairings, my headcanon doesn't understand the petite-man thing in male to male relationships relationships/pairings , yet petit women I am obsessed with.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - I do agree. I suppose for me or at least when I did start watching it, it felt more risque, since at least in media lesbians seem more accepted than gay or flamboyant men. So I think the draw for me might be emasculation, because of the uke and seme dynamic. It is said the reason for that is to project their female audiences in more of a dominant role or something like that.
SuperMario
Hmm, I watched few episodes of Sekaiichi Hatsukoi and it's the romance that turned me off. It's just plain secual harassment
Kaiser-Eoghan
In some way its easier to physically work it out mentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which leads to the interesting phenomenon of fudanshiism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bizzarest thing is I am significantly more attracted to women than men yet find shounen-ai/yaoi more of a draw, while admitting the shoujo-ai/yuri stories out there are better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I recall actually liking the music in gravitation at one point.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As silly melodrama it was somewhat watchable.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt that a certain off colour scene with Chikane felt like character assassination.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But the characterization and mecha fights are particularly messy in kannazuki, especially bringing the manga into it where the villains didn't even get 1 second backstories and the framing of the art and panels is poor, with some of dialogue, at least in the dub sounding very silly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Regarding kannazuki, I'm not going to doubt that it a kyoshiro aren't rip roaringly hilarious guilty pleasures, not that this dimnishes the anons take on the female lead.
Anonymous1832214
KnM is trash anime, but very endearing and a treasure. I love it.

(Just passing by, I'm straight male with a thing for yuri genre).
Anonymous1832169
And I think Gravitation is also because music is also part of the plot and not solely the romance. I think the last one I enjoyed was Love Stage but that only had a thing going with one side being biconfused. Though it didn't do anything with that.
Anonymous1832214
Kannazuki no Miko has a heroine who readily accepts her feelings and is in a position where it is very difficult not to empathise. Her love seems very pure and to me is very rewarding to watch.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Yeah but then you have Utena, Aoi Hana, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja, Madoka, and several other series that just happen to have lesbian couples. In terms of good or recognizable shounen ai, it's harder, since I think the most recognizable is Gravitation, followed by (maybe) the Nakamura ones (Seikachi Hatsukoi and his other series).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The manga is even worse than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are truly terrible yuri series though I'm sure, no idea how Kannazuki no miko became a cult thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Sadly there's too much rape in yaoi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Oh, the gender roles thing is terrible in those things. Plenty of gay men are masculine irl.
Anonymous1832169
Borrowed from Japanese 百合 (yuri, “lily”), by analogy to 薔薇 (bara, “rose”), indicating gay men.
Anonymous1832169
Shoujo AI and even Yuri, are more romance than eros. There could be like 10 or more chapters without any intimate action and I suppose that's also part in why yuri tends to achieve better stories.
Anonymous1832169
Also the formula is so transparent that one scrolls to the end, to see ehem, the good part.
Anonymous1832169
And finally like the typical chick flick there's rarely anything important beyond the relationship. I even say those who try a little may be the better ones in this genre.
Anonymous1832169
Now you know what you should expect. Because that's the issue. In Shounen Ai or Yaoi for the most part. Secondary characters have no issue with these relationships. Second problem is that the couple both are put in the male and female part of the relationship.
Anonymous1832169
In defense of yaoi. Do anyone know the meaning behind that word? From Japanese やおい (yaoi), an acronym of Yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi (ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし), "no climax, no point, no meaning
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm actually not even overly interested in either show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But yes, its stupid that yuri on ice didn't go all the way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I believe citrus is actually aim at girls, going by the magazine its serialized in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And a yuri manga would probably be more explicit than shoujo-ai.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well you're comparing shounen-ai to yuri , so of course citrus will be more explicit , just like yaoi would be more explicit than shounen-ai.
AidanAK47
And I am not arguing that gay people can't have fanservice shows. As a matter of fact I am arguing why the bar is so much lower. Yuri on Ice has people fangirling over an "implied kiss" while I look over to the other side to see Citrus reaching second base.
AidanAK47
@Anon, not say you can't like the show but it was queer baiting. The show was comical in how it it made it clear it's characters were gay but didn't even have the balls to show a kiss on screen. Meanwhile you have Citrus here showing two girls having full make out sessions without trouble. I have no interest whatsoever in seeing two men kiss but even I can admit that is bullshit.
KTravlos
interesting conversation. Must say I do not usually react much to the sexuality of characters in anime, but this is partly because I might not see the problem, or because most of the anime I watch have sexuality only incidentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course I don't want to dismiss the fact that hentai manga for gay men exists,if one wanted it there is seinen yaoi, ie Bara manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I attribute it to being less passive than just watching something.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will say, I do think self-insertion is more effective in relation to videogames.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On this I as a bicurious man agree, when I read a romance story, I just want ad like a romance ore relationship story, its not special to me what the race or orientation of characters are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
My brother also felt that romance stories involving homosexual characters often falter in a space where the same sex pairing becomes more about pure novelty than just being a love story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Imredjimmy, who posted on here as a user before, he himself homosexual had issues with yaoi manga, feeling that it didn't address issues properly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
He feels "All romance stories belong in the romance section and shouldn't be too categorized and that most yaoi/yuri isn't really for the homosexual audience"
Kaiser-Eoghan
Is it really fanservice for a homosexual audience though? I do find both male and female characters attractive as a bicurious man but it has to be admitted, shounen-ai and yaoi is really a thing for girls and bi men, I can admit that. My brother, a gay man is very critical of yaoi/shounen-ai as well as yuri/shoujo-ai.
Anonymous1831032
You are overly critical
Anonymous1831032
why can't gay people have 'fanservice' without being compared to fish blindly poking for worms and being caught by some manipulative fisherman? It's 'normal' for weebs to watch 'cutesy' or 'moe' shows.
Anonymous1831032
Who cares dude. I liked the show. The term 'queer baiting' is fucking insulting.
Vonter
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I agree with that, there is a lot of meandering in Hourou Musuko manga, it makes it feel more realistic and grounded. But there's a reason many storytellers don't tell the most boring aspects of real life, like constantly pondering about what the future may bring.
Vonter
Pokemon and Zelda let the community make the conjectures and the creators mostly shy away from explaining them, because they fear they'll write themselves into a corner.
Vonter
I mean, not all things should make statements. Ranma 1/2 is recognizable, despite being a comedy. Conan is iconic and its just contained mystery stories, despite the themes of Evangelion the creators have admitted the use of christian elements was because of aesthetics, moreso than delivering a statement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Some felt that the manga for hourou musuko felt more low key in tone than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Travlos, I've noticed the site seems to be giving you trouble setting a username sometimes, best to just create an account instead.
AidanAK47
@Anon, that respect seems on different levels for people though. I mean I seen people championed Yuri on Ice as a major win for LGBT representation in anime while I myself just saw it as queer baiting seeing as the series itself couldn't admit it's characters were gay.
Anonymous1829806
Travlos here: I know many of the AoTitan fans hate the new direction of the manga, but I love it. Gimme more war!

While I love the ideas in Birdy the Mighty, the pace of the mangaka is maddening.
Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
Anonymous1829213
And I definitely agree - those manga exist and are excellent. ^_^
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