Posted on 20 February 2018 with categories: Currently Watching:, Darling in the Franxx

Today on Darling and the Franxx, Hiro pierces the heavens. Darling in the Franxx manages to carry itself on the action of this episode as it was quite the engaging spectacle. Nearly a constant episode of action which is bad news for me as these are often the hardest to blog. Animation remained pretty consistent throughout and things managed to get the viewer pumped alongside the visuals. I compare the execution of this to How to train your dragon, not storywise of course but rather that the story beats here were quite predictable but nonetheless it was enjoyable to watch due to the presentation. Much like predicted, Hiro managed to fight off his blue tumor with the power of friendship, lust or maybe general motivational speaking. Judging by the tone it appears that Hiro has managed to kick off this weakness for good and from now on will be able to ride with Zero Two however much her wants. Which sort of cheapens the drama and conflict of the previous episode even if Hiro did almost die in the process. Thus unless there is some transformation or development for this whole sickness business this plot point is going to feel rather contrived when looking over the series as a whole.

But well, why be a killjoy about it. I did quite enjoy this episode and while I don’t quite care about the revelations behind this whole organisation, I am somewhat caring for the characters. The team’s general feeling of inadequacy when seeing the teamwork of the more experienced Franxx pilots and how disorganised they are when working together. Got to say I was surprised to see the obvious cannon fodder actually survive the ordeal when things got tough and seeing Ichigo start to get them all to work together to take down the bigger threat was quite satisfying. But boy, poor Ichigo. I knew from the start that her feelings for Hiro were completely in vain but even I felt for the girl when she claimed that she only cared for Hiro as a friend and to have Hiro confirm likewise. You got to have respect for her in how she put the mission above her own feelings and her display her is much like a girl giving up on the person she loves to cheer him on as he goes with another girl.

She did lose her composure upon thinking Hiro was dead but Goro was there to get her together. There’s actual potential for Goro to be a rebound for her though from her reaction at episodes end it seems she still hasn’t quite given up on Hiro. Coming from me, her ship is doomed to sink and I just wish she would move on so I don’t have to see this series try to pretend that she has a even the slightest chance of winning Hiro’s heart. They already established that Zero Two and Hiro need each other so anything butting in on that is just going to be an annoying diversion. Still I wonder just where this series is heading now that the most pressing issue has been dealt with. Now that Hiro is Zero Twos official partner and has survived three runs its up in the air on just where they might take it. I see two paths, one where the series focuses on fleshing out the other members of the squad with individual character episodes or a path of delving into the mystery of the whole organization they work for. The second option is more endgame material though so I think the cast is going to get more development…provided they don’t dwell on Ichigo’s feelings and attempt another Kiznaiver situation of just love troubles. Relationship metaphors using mecha symbolism I can get behind. Teenagers getting all bent out of shape over love and yet still refusing to communicate is something I have come to loath.

Posted on 14 February 2018 with categories: Currently Watching:, Darling in the Franxx

Today on Darling in the Franxx, Hiro gets a STD. This was a surprisingly good episode as I found myself pretty engaged with the goings on of the plot. Now previous episodes of Franxx haven’t been all that bad besides the excessive sex symbolism but up until this point I would have deemed this show passable. Decently watchable while not being particularly outstanding. This episode however may push Franxx out of the shadows of its inspirations and help it form its own identity.(Well I suppose it was differanting itself with the sex symbolism but that wasn’t exactly a positive distinction.) So we learn that despite Hiro’s posturing and excitement over finally becoming a pilot of a Franxx that him riding with Zero two has indeed been having a negative effect on his body. However until others who have rode with Zero Two and ended up hospitalised, Hiro seems to be undergoing different effects as a blue tumor has appeared on his chest that causes him agony. Despite this Hiro is determined to ride with Zero Two again despite the fact that this would quite likely kill him. I might be wondering whether Hiro would actually die if we didn’t have 19 more episodes to go and while I would applaud the writers if they were gutsy enough to actually kill off the main character, I sincerely doubt they will do so.

Which brings me to a certain theory I read about while browsing the seas of Reddit. It seems that there is a theory going that Hiro is going to end up becoming a creature much like Zero Two and that these two will end up becoming a red and blue Oni. If you watched My love Story or Re:Zero you may be familiar with this Japanese children’s story but the general jest is about a blue Oni pretending to attack a village so the Red Oni could drive him off and become friends with the humans. Afterward only to find a letter from the Blue Oni wishing him well and revealing that they will never seen each other again. There’s a whole TV tropes page on the topic but it does seem to appear quite a bit in anime and manga with having two characters, one passionate and aggressive while the other is more silent and serene. It’s an interesting idea though we can’t quite be sure that’s what this series in gunning for as I don’t see Hiro growing any blue horns. The easy way out of Hiro’s mysterious disease is to turn him into some sort of hybrid like Zero Two but I feel the series would lose a lot of the appeal it gained with this episode if it did that. For after that Hiro would get a power up and it would render the concern and tension of this episode rather meaningless.

We now know what “kissing” means for plantations for it is when two plantations link to transfer liquid hot magma with…each…other…in case you didn’t realise this is symbolism for sexual relations. Boy how subtle the writer’s hand is. There are bits of little info here which hint at darker events to come as our crew meet another robot team who have more experience and it shows that they are the exception to the norm as normal pilots don’t give themselves nicknames nor have specialized Franxx. More importantly when Zorome asked if any of them have “Become adults”, one of the members of the experienced crew whispers to the other “They don’t know.” Suggesting that these kids may have a shorter life span than they might think or that they never mature into adults and instead stay in teenage bodies. Mitsuru also is popping pills for some reason, maybe to fight of the infection that Hiro has.

Zero Two’s more callous and ruthless side appears as well for it’s clear that she cares about nothing other than Hiro and when it comes to other people dying in the battlefield, they were just too weak. So as far as Zero Two is concerned, everyone in the squad can die and she won’t give a damn. Even she knows that riding with Hiro will likely kill him but rather takes delight in knowing that he wants to ride with her despite the risk. As when pushed by Ichigo, she admits that if Hiro dies then he was just too weak to be her darling. But Zero Two also hinted as something else when called inhuman by ichigo, namely suggesting that the kids themselves are not human either which would make sense considering they have already confirmed they were genetically engineered. Well next episode Hiro likely isn’t going to die but that new nameless expendable robot crew might want to abstain from joining in this new operation, or else we will need to start digging some graves.

Posted on 6 February 2018 with categories: Currently Watching:, Darling in the Franxx

Today on Darling in the Franxx, Hiro gets laid. Truth be told I have been trying to get my thoughts together on just what I think about this show. As far as general consensus goes it’s been rather passable. Decent entertainment with some impressive animation and a plot which is predictable but nonetheless satisfactory. These past two episodes really have dialed back on the fanservice as well as the sex jokes and general nudity are less prominent. They are still there of course what with Zero Two’s suggestive “You wanna ride me, Huh?” to Hiro’s “I feel myself going deeper inside you” but it’s on a level with can at least allow you to take the plot seriously. Though as I previously state, I am not all that interested in the plot of Franxx. For one the organisation seem both stereotypical and stupid as they refuse to test out Hiro and Zero Two’s compatibility again and instead dismiss it as a fluke based on two tests where they made them ride with different pilots. Content just to throw Zero Two on to the front lines with her going through pilots like lunchtime meals. It is a question just why they brought Zero Two to the plantation in the first place and i can’t help but feel some plot contrivance in this situation with how dramatic they made these twos first real fight together. I even much question just why it was that Hiro lost his memory of the first time piloting with her when here he had no trouble at all remembering. Could be a future twist as they are already hinting that Hiro also can only ride with Zero Two a certain amount of times before he’s killed as well.

This episode was mainly animated by trigger which does explain some choppy moments during the fight scene and also why the fight scene had a lot more impact. Not to say the A-1 animation team where doing a bad job, if anything this are on par but Trigger just seems to have mastered the art of dailing things up to eleven and getting the viewer pumped. So plot wise this was essentially a confession episode as Hiro admitted that he wants to ride Zero Two not for the sake of humanity or anything grand but rather because he enjoys piloting with her and only her. There may have been some manipulation on Zero Two’s part to get to this but it does seem that she was feeling uncertain because she thought that Hiro was getting scared by the rumors and the fact that she has klaxosaur blood. Again it’s decent writing but it just feels oh so very predictable. Trigger works aren’t exactly known for their writing as the stories are generally simple and follow formula but generally the impact of the show is enough to brush aside it’s predictability and there are often elements of intrigue thrown in or at least things to speculate on.

But like i said, the organization is boring, I don’t care what they are planning because they are a faceless personality lacking entity which is clearly up to no good. It’s pretty clear that Hiro and the others were genetically engineered to fight and there is a distinct lack of actual people in this world with the only evidence of their existence an empty yellow city in the plantations depths. klaxosaur we know next to nothing about other than them being the main threat in this world.Other than that there isn’t much to speculate on here and we are basically dragged along in a fight where we do not know the stakes nor the goal. The only thing that keeps these fights from being flashy fodder is the character dynamics. The characters do show potential for grown, for one Mitsuru’s partner not only didn’t break down but actually stepped up to support him after his embarrassing ride with Zero Two. Ichigo is playing the role of the responsible leader but it’s clear there is tension between her and Zero Two over Hiro. The smug mech smile of Zero Two’s as she passed Ichigo was quite telling. The development of the team is going to have to be a big thing as at this rate they will be playing second fiddle to Strelizia so it could be quite entertaining to see they each step up to the challenge.

Posted on 31 January 2018 with categories: Currently Watching:, Darling in the Franxx

Today on relationship symbolism with Darling in the Franxx, NTR. Well jokes aside this episode was easier to take seriously as there were less sex jokes and more drama. Not quite certain what to make of it as I still find the robots a bit too silly to take seriously and overall the plot is just fine if a bit predictable. For example, we knew exactly what was going to happen when Mitsuru decided to control the Franxx with Zero Two. It was obvious from the word go that this was to prove that Hiro was the only one who can handle her in a cockpit. Same with the newbie robot pilots going out on their first missions, obviously something was going to go wrong which would push for Hiro and Zero Two to be sent out. It’s understandable why they are taking the story this way but rather annoying when the reasons for doing so seem rather forced. For example, there is no reason whatsoever for command to be reluctant to send out Hiro wit Zero Two. Not even to fight but just for a test run would be good enough as he’s already proven that he can handle her and the only reason he’s getting shafted is due to him not being an official pilot. But it just seems so arbitrary when they are willing to send out a rookie with her despite Hiro having proven combat experience with her.

Point is that we all know that Hiro’s going to end out piloting with Zero Two and these events are just delaying the inevitable fact. Though this delay does give us some perspective from the other pilots in which it seems that Hiro was originally the golden boy who happened to give them all their names. But after Hiro ended up not being able to handle a robot he was tossed aside but still given special treatment despite his failures. So the other pilots, at least Zorome and Mitsuru appear to resent him for that. They place their hopes on him and he ended up disappointing. Though in Mitsuru’s case it appears he has a bit of an complex due to being stuck with Ikuno and his performance being shaky. The obvious factor is likely due to Ikuno feeling like the a weak link and the two not really having much of a connection. Very much like a couple that were pushed into an awkward relationship. It seems obvious that performance is based on how well the two pilots get along with each other and can be shaken when one loses trust in the other.

So Mitsuru’s performance is going to take a nosedive because of him openly revealing that he does believe that Ikuno is the reason behind their lacking performance and confirming her insecurities. If that’s the case there relationship could take a rather sour turn. On the upside Zorome seems to be growing more attached to Miku and easing up on the cocky little shit act which is promising. Though Ichigo looked to be having some backlash due to her failure with Hiro. I feel sorry for Goro in this situation as it looks like he’s the third wheel and is fully aware of it. I also wonder what is going on with this strange letterboxing in certain scenes. Is it to make it seem more cinematic or place extra emphasis on what is being said in this scene?

Posted on 23 January 2018 with categories: Currently Watching:, Darling in the Franxx

As it stands now, this is essentially an animated version of a double entendre. Each line is laced with a double meaning so heavy that you can postface lines with the words “That’s what she said.” and it would fit perfectly. I find my stance on this to be rather mixed as while the fanservice is ridiculously blatant what with it’s robots piloted by ass controls and changing room boob groping, it feels like the show itself recognises just how silly it all is. Let me put it this way, shows like Cross Ange present their fanservice with a straight face as it has the age old cliches we all know and hate while Franxx seems to be having fun in acknowledging its own absurdity. I honestly chuckled when one of the pilot said upon starting his machine “Did I do it right? I didn’t suck?” and having his partner reassure him that he did fine. Still while this playfulness is rather comical, it does conflict with the serious plot the story appears to be trying to present. For you see, when you are trying to make a point, it can be difficult to be taken seriously when your statements sound like a sex joke. I mean Franxx doesn’t suck hard but it does suck a little, and while sucking a little can be enough to satisfy some people, I know there are those of us who would prefer it to perform better so that we aren’t left limp when the time comes for it to go fast and heavy. You may be beginning to see my point.

It is pretty apparent that this series is paying homage to mecha series like Evangelion and its contemporaries and as odd as it may be to say, I think that it would be a mistake for this series to attempt to take a darker turn in it’s later episodes and attempt an Evangelion. For you see, nothing will top Evangelion, it is on a pedestal so high and fortified by age, legacy and nostalgia that even if you made a series that was objectively a better version of it in every way, it still wouldn’t top Evangelion. Even Evangelion couldn’t top Evangelion, that’s the point we are at. Attempting to do so would just make this another one of those shows that followed it can came up short and i feel that the idea’s have really all been done. So while this may sound ludicrous to you readers, I believe Franxx should put it’s focus on it’s other aspect which happens to be using mecha as allegory for relationships. I know it sound odd for me to suggest this considering my rant above about this series approach to sex but I feel this is the only real path for Franxx to be its own entity. Mecha and sex have been previously compared before and even the idea of using them as pseudo relationships, off the top of my head I can name Aquarion Evol which dabbled in this. But if there is one aspect that anime has hardly explored, it’s the nature of relationships. In anime, a relationship has a beginning and an end but never a middle. Romance anime either end at the confession or time skip to the marriage and very little of the rather tremulous ground that is the relationship itself is covered. So if this anime can somehow use the ground of mecha to explore sexual relations then this could turn out rather interesting.

Already we have some ammo for this kind of story as this episode can essentially be taken as a tale of erectile dysfunction. The main has to prove his worth by trying to pilot a franxx again but this time he is paired up with another girl called Ichigo who seems to be romantically interested in him. Despite a promising start the robot ends up rejecting the connection leading to the girl trying to get the main “in the mood” so to speak. I am not really pushing to make this symbolic connection either, in fact it’s rather obvious this is what it’s alluding to. Being “in the mood” is looking to be a big factor when piloting these robots as his opponent, cocky little upstart he is, effectively kills the mode in his robot when he openly admits that he would take the Ichigo as his partner, essentially the equivalent of calling out another woman’s name during intercourse. This pisses off his partner, shuts down the robot and we have an ending with Ichigo making the rather suggestive comment that the main was “awful”.

So we have a love triangle here, Zero two is the dangerous girl whose been with a number of guys and is experienced, exciting and spontaneous. Not to mention she’s a dominant bold partner in piloting which may be a factor in getting the main ”in the mood”. Ichigo on the other hand is a submissive partner whose boring, predictable and ordinary, essentially the safe relationship option. But we also have the issue of cheating as Ichigo already has a partner whom she is highly compatible with and well he seems to be aware of her feelings. I admit this may be me simply trying to justify the high amount of suggestive fanservice into something more acceptable as people did with Kill La Kill and I fully admit that this might not be the intended focus of the series. But it certainly would give me something more interesting to talk about.

CHANGE USERNAME
Lenlo
Makishima is a fantastic villain
Anonymous1835766
Kaiser-Eoghan - I think the closest might be Makishima Shogo in Psycho Pass. Just in the opposite sense, showing how flawed an absolutistic system is. Also a scene from that anime, that subverts the notion of how people are shocked by violence.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Moreso than the girls death obsession, I thought the stuff with the mother in the first chapter of yakedo has the potential to go in a more messed up way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But he fails miserably and no one learns from his crimes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Why can't there be a BENEVOLENT killer character that commits horrible acts solely to shock people and show how horrifying those acts are, out of the delusion that it will inspire a reflection and change in people to NOT, to NEVER do those things.
Kaiser-Eoghan
*higher
Kaiser-Eoghan
Maybe an abused character is a servant in a historical setting with a hierarchy, trapped in societal rules and defeats the obsession with the attacker and raises up against the class system/character of hire social standing that abused them.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Perhaps the cannibal killer character in the story has abandonment, severe paranoia and lonliness issues and sees his crimes as taking people inside him so they'll never leave him.
Kaiser-Eoghan
of psychological depth instead?
Kaiser-Eoghan
For the willingness to throw messed up stuff into stories, I wouldn't mind seeing an analysis thrown in, doing a story about a cannibal character? How about instead of just a gore fest, get inside is head and ask, why does he do this? I hate Ntr and its used as a throwaway turn-on involving rape eroticism, but is there any any way that a story involving that could be framed with some sense
Kaiser-Eoghan
Back on to stuff like goblin slayer, they can take out the rape scenes I wouldn't miss them, although I find them less uncomfortable, BECAUSE they are shown as how wrong rape is, instead of say a doujin playing it up for titilation .
Kaiser-Eoghan
Despite all the talking up of tsunderes, I actually love kuuderes, in the end probably the biggest reason is for how flat chested they are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Slapstick violence always plays second to dry, dark, screwball or surreal humour.
Bokusen
Also, on tsunderes, me too. I can't stand people using physical violence on someone unless it's in self-defense, or a Fate-type scenario where they all know everyone is trying to kill everyone else. Random physical violence played up as comedy is the worst.
Bokusen
@Kaiser Ah, so it was referring to bondage. I was skimming through posts and must've missed that. Bondage still creeps me out a bit, but if it's a fetish thing I can at least understand the whole exaggerated gender roles thing.
AidanAK47
In regards to Tsunderes, yep that was a bad choice of words there Kaiser. But over time I have come to find Tsunderes more agavating. Tsunderes like Rin are fine but those that beat the crap out of the guy they like and are expected to be forgiven cause they get embarrassed can go straight to hell.
AidanAK47
Also who cares who Korra ends up with? She a goddamn horrible character. I hated her so much.
AidanAK47
Korra was a show that had love realistionships come out of nowhere(And not well written in general) but that one really was just pandering to the Korra/Asami shippers. Not sure where the hell that ship came from to begin with.
Lenlo
I agree Aidan, the love at the end of Korra came out of Left field really
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: It was inappropriate and I shouldn't have said it.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Heck one of the reasons I prefer seeing another character with another character or a character simply on their own in a fetish situation is because I can distance myself from it and not feel like I'm touching anything/one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
If anything I meant role reversal.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I apologize, reading it back it sounds terrible, I was actually referring to bondage where the tsundere pretends to hate it initially but consents .
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Bokusen: I should state clearly that that is merely a fantasy. The anger on both sides makes it easier because even if things became more physical or intimate it would feel more distant if the talking part was she and myself saying how much we hated it , despite actualily liking it.
Bokusen
"The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place." OK, reading that just creeped me out.
AidanAK47
@Kaiser, well you like screwed up stuff so no surprise.
Try Yakedo Shoujo. Get the feeling you will like that one quite a bit.
AidanAK47
@Anon, Legend of Korra? There was no yuri in that one. No evidence whatsoever. They just had Korra and Asami walk into some light and then announced them gay over twitter. Honesty I didn't see it in the show itself.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Also was it you that recommended happy sugar life to me? That was a pretty good psychological horror manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Aidan: Going back several messages, I kind of liked goblin slayer oddly.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Read Sakuranbo Syndrome.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: At the same time I really think more series like after the rain need to come out, showing more sensitive approaches.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Nudity/sex just isn't used functionally well enough or dramatically as it should. Come on, give us a story about passionette characters, sensual/erotic rather than only porn. Or do a scums wish where miserable people are doing it because saaaaad.
Kaiser-Eoghan
kuuchuu is really one of those things I need to re-watch, I became so much more open to weirder shows in the past number of years than I would have been ages ago.
Anonymous1832169
I think my excuse in hentai, is that despair, and subjugation adds drama to a very simple thing. Though Dawn of the Silver Dragon may be the peak of objectification.
Anonymous1832214
Sure, np, though I must be off. Again, nice to chat casually. Been off forums for a while. Bye.
PS: thank you gift for anyone not familiar https://myanimelist.net/anime/6774/Kuuchuu_Buranko?q=kuuchuu
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lets talk about the spring 2018 anime season chart: http://anichart.net/spring-2018
Kaiser-Eoghan
Mods, I'm sorry for hostaging/dominating the chat like this I'll change subject.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I do think official/canon pairings of characters make more sense definitely, non-canon ones can kind of cheapen characters.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I really really want to say though, I totally am not okay with rape in hentai though and I don't like 50 shades of grey.
Kaiser-Eoghan
To get off this subject, funny little random memory here of reading manga in public, back when I was still into fate, some street person sat down next to me and saw a picture of berserk and said "Oh, he's quite ripped isn't he"
Anonymous1832214
@Anon could be
@Kaiser Srsly youd hate Young's Aflame Inferno - narcissistic manipulative elite MC guy plays a sub to a playful manipulative OP demon woman. I love that so much..!
Kaiser-Eoghan
The old artists valued some interesting takes on beauty too, all of those middle aged larger bodies.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Someone has read this and gone off and done an Akira x Satan devilman doujin haven't they?
Kaiser-Eoghan
On the beauty and the beast thing, I wonder if characters like Elias from Mahouyome will become more popular. Monsterboys might end up catching on.
Anonymous1832169
Anonymous1832214 - I think so, I mean we paint angels following that idea.
Anonymous1832214
Thx for the talk guys (and girls). Btw. I'm the guy with weird nicks, Evaluation, Strength, Victim, etc in case anyone's wondering.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think regarding role switching and whether I prefer being dom or sub is definately based on which gender I'm playing, this goes back to the cliches of girl=the submissive character man=is the non-submissive.
Anonymous1832214
There's something about androgynous features, is there?
Kaiser-Eoghan
accept of course for the sensei, who looks like one-punchman.
Anonymous1832214
Seems consistent with your preferences towards domination. Open your heart more and feel the love. They cant help themselves. They need you to get it out. Why not play the mature person, not play the game and accept their flawed selves?
Kaiser-Eoghan
Specifically due the ambiguity.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Houseki's character designs and art is fascinating.
Anonymous1832169
I like the idea of women pretending to be men and men pretending to be women. Not necessarily transgender, just in the sense of playing the role like Hercules and Diomedes.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Hating them makes it easier/better aswell.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The thing is I utterly hate the personalities of tsundere characters in bitch/dom mode, sends me into a fervor to put them in their place
Anonymous1832214
I wouldnt mind being a dominated by a (good-hearted) Pandora. So I guess I have no idea how you can even say that...
Kaiser-Eoghan
Lol now we're getting into liking certsin things because their so non-pc =P
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of me taking on a female role and being dominated by a woman is bizzare to me , taking on a female role and being dominated by a man, yes.
Anonymous1832214
Yeah got it. Like Senjougahara? Lol.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But she still holds on to the delusion that she's in control.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Wait, to be more specific, I was saying I liked the idea of making a tsundere girl submit, with the tsundere becoming the sub.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Youngs manga work better than say, something like ikkitosen/highschool dxd/seikon no qwaser/highschool of the dead because they go all out with the exploitation .
Anonymous1832169
I do see a correlation between the feminine guys in yaoi and the token girls in otome. I swear I don't get why otome and other young girl series, like to play the bad boy and misogynistic treatment of women. I think they we might have lost the point in Beauty and the Beast.
Anonymous1832214
Kaiser... do you know Im Dal Young's manga? Freezing, Unbalance x Unbalance, etc. He often puts the women in the dominant role. He's gotta have a thing for it. I love that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I think going back to the complaints of yuri on ice not having enough bite to it, its the same as the fanservice in josei manga with the ambiguous bromances.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm a really pretentious guy, I love going into the psychology of it all.
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - As one teacher told me, the most memorable characters are the contradictory ones.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The western side often feels more tokenistic at times.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The feminine male character exists as a safe zone for the female reader.
Kaiser-Eoghan
No wonder I enjoyed haru deiteita so much, it did the reversal thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Yet people don't understand this when I say I find tsunderes attractive, what could be more appealing to me than a tsundere ending up losing the dominant role and becoming submissive?
Anonymous1832169
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I think I like that dichotomy, because since manga is already androgynous one does accept it more. Especially since of anime thread the line of making their male characters submissive. Also in a more design sense it might be because there's a power dynamic at play. That's why there's also harassment.
Anonymous1832214
I also agree that yuri is more established and accepted. Particularly in western media, which are starting to catch up? (lesbians everywhere...) Legend of Korra anyone?
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: The weirdest thing is from my own perspective, when I play the female role in the relationship I understand taking on a more submissive role, yet in a male role, with a women I find being in a non-dominent role impossible.
Anonymous1832214
@Kaiser I'm not going to defend KnM, valid points. Again, it's done enough. And - I have a thing for tragic/platonic love so KnM clicked...
Anonymous1832169
Yuri can be cold, harsh and seduction is usually a weapon. Though a tiring trope is that most stories treat the couple as kind of sister type of affection. Or so I feel.
Kaiser-Eoghan
In terms of the pairings, my headcanon doesn't understand the petite-man thing in male to male relationships relationships/pairings , yet petit women I am obsessed with.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - I do agree. I suppose for me or at least when I did start watching it, it felt more risque, since at least in media lesbians seem more accepted than gay or flamboyant men. So I think the draw for me might be emasculation, because of the uke and seme dynamic. It is said the reason for that is to project their female audiences in more of a dominant role or something like that.
SuperMario
Hmm, I watched few episodes of Sekaiichi Hatsukoi and it's the romance that turned me off. It's just plain secual harassment
Kaiser-Eoghan
In some way its easier to physically work it out mentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which leads to the interesting phenomenon of fudanshiism.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The bizzarest thing is I am significantly more attracted to women than men yet find shounen-ai/yaoi more of a draw, while admitting the shoujo-ai/yuri stories out there are better.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I recall actually liking the music in gravitation at one point.
Kaiser-Eoghan
As silly melodrama it was somewhat watchable.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I felt that a certain off colour scene with Chikane felt like character assassination.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But the characterization and mecha fights are particularly messy in kannazuki, especially bringing the manga into it where the villains didn't even get 1 second backstories and the framing of the art and panels is poor, with some of dialogue, at least in the dub sounding very silly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Regarding kannazuki, I'm not going to doubt that it a kyoshiro aren't rip roaringly hilarious guilty pleasures, not that this dimnishes the anons take on the female lead.
Anonymous1832214
KnM is trash anime, but very endearing and a treasure. I love it.

(Just passing by, I'm straight male with a thing for yuri genre).
Anonymous1832169
And I think Gravitation is also because music is also part of the plot and not solely the romance. I think the last one I enjoyed was Love Stage but that only had a thing going with one side being biconfused. Though it didn't do anything with that.
Anonymous1832214
Kannazuki no Miko has a heroine who readily accepts her feelings and is in a position where it is very difficult not to empathise. Her love seems very pure and to me is very rewarding to watch.
Anonymous1832169
Kaiser-Eoghan - Yeah but then you have Utena, Aoi Hana, Noir, El Cazador de la Bruja, Madoka, and several other series that just happen to have lesbian couples. In terms of good or recognizable shounen ai, it's harder, since I think the most recognizable is Gravitation, followed by (maybe) the Nakamura ones (Seikachi Hatsukoi and his other series).
Kaiser-Eoghan
The manga is even worse than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
There are truly terrible yuri series though I'm sure, no idea how Kannazuki no miko became a cult thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Sadly there's too much rape in yaoi.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: Oh, the gender roles thing is terrible in those things. Plenty of gay men are masculine irl.
Anonymous1832169
Borrowed from Japanese 百合 (yuri, “lily”), by analogy to 薔薇 (bara, “rose”), indicating gay men.
Anonymous1832169
Shoujo AI and even Yuri, are more romance than eros. There could be like 10 or more chapters without any intimate action and I suppose that's also part in why yuri tends to achieve better stories.
Anonymous1832169
Also the formula is so transparent that one scrolls to the end, to see ehem, the good part.
Anonymous1832169
And finally like the typical chick flick there's rarely anything important beyond the relationship. I even say those who try a little may be the better ones in this genre.
Anonymous1832169
Now you know what you should expect. Because that's the issue. In Shounen Ai or Yaoi for the most part. Secondary characters have no issue with these relationships. Second problem is that the couple both are put in the male and female part of the relationship.
Anonymous1832169
In defense of yaoi. Do anyone know the meaning behind that word? From Japanese やおい (yaoi), an acronym of Yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi (ヤマなし、オチなし、意味なし), "no climax, no point, no meaning
Kaiser-Eoghan
I'm actually not even overly interested in either show.
Kaiser-Eoghan
But yes, its stupid that yuri on ice didn't go all the way.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I believe citrus is actually aim at girls, going by the magazine its serialized in.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And a yuri manga would probably be more explicit than shoujo-ai.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Well you're comparing shounen-ai to yuri , so of course citrus will be more explicit , just like yaoi would be more explicit than shounen-ai.
AidanAK47
And I am not arguing that gay people can't have fanservice shows. As a matter of fact I am arguing why the bar is so much lower. Yuri on Ice has people fangirling over an "implied kiss" while I look over to the other side to see Citrus reaching second base.
AidanAK47
@Anon, not say you can't like the show but it was queer baiting. The show was comical in how it it made it clear it's characters were gay but didn't even have the balls to show a kiss on screen. Meanwhile you have Citrus here showing two girls having full make out sessions without trouble. I have no interest whatsoever in seeing two men kiss but even I can admit that is bullshit.
KTravlos
interesting conversation. Must say I do not usually react much to the sexuality of characters in anime, but this is partly because I might not see the problem, or because most of the anime I watch have sexuality only incidentally.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Of course I don't want to dismiss the fact that hentai manga for gay men exists,if one wanted it there is seinen yaoi, ie Bara manga.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Which I attribute it to being less passive than just watching something.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I will say, I do think self-insertion is more effective in relation to videogames.
Kaiser-Eoghan
On this I as a bicurious man agree, when I read a romance story, I just want ad like a romance ore relationship story, its not special to me what the race or orientation of characters are.
Kaiser-Eoghan
My brother also felt that romance stories involving homosexual characters often falter in a space where the same sex pairing becomes more about pure novelty than just being a love story.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Imredjimmy, who posted on here as a user before, he himself homosexual had issues with yaoi manga, feeling that it didn't address issues properly.
Kaiser-Eoghan
He feels "All romance stories belong in the romance section and shouldn't be too categorized and that most yaoi/yuri isn't really for the homosexual audience"
Kaiser-Eoghan
Is it really fanservice for a homosexual audience though? I do find both male and female characters attractive as a bicurious man but it has to be admitted, shounen-ai and yaoi is really a thing for girls and bi men, I can admit that. My brother, a gay man is very critical of yaoi/shounen-ai as well as yuri/shoujo-ai.
Anonymous1831032
You are overly critical
Anonymous1831032
why can't gay people have 'fanservice' without being compared to fish blindly poking for worms and being caught by some manipulative fisherman? It's 'normal' for weebs to watch 'cutesy' or 'moe' shows.
Anonymous1831032
Who cares dude. I liked the show. The term 'queer baiting' is fucking insulting.
Vonter
@Kaiser-Eoghan - I agree with that, there is a lot of meandering in Hourou Musuko manga, it makes it feel more realistic and grounded. But there's a reason many storytellers don't tell the most boring aspects of real life, like constantly pondering about what the future may bring.
Vonter
Pokemon and Zelda let the community make the conjectures and the creators mostly shy away from explaining them, because they fear they'll write themselves into a corner.
Vonter
I mean, not all things should make statements. Ranma 1/2 is recognizable, despite being a comedy. Conan is iconic and its just contained mystery stories, despite the themes of Evangelion the creators have admitted the use of christian elements was because of aesthetics, moreso than delivering a statement.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Mario: Some felt that the manga for hourou musuko felt more low key in tone than the anime.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Travlos, I've noticed the site seems to be giving you trouble setting a username sometimes, best to just create an account instead.
AidanAK47
@Anon, that respect seems on different levels for people though. I mean I seen people championed Yuri on Ice as a major win for LGBT representation in anime while I myself just saw it as queer baiting seeing as the series itself couldn't admit it's characters were gay.
Anonymous1829806
Travlos here: I know many of the AoTitan fans hate the new direction of the manga, but I love it. Gimme more war!

While I love the ideas in Birdy the Mighty, the pace of the mangaka is maddening.
Anonymous1829447
Well, one last thing. I understand that anime like games or movies are a refuge for people who want to escape from politics for a second. But when mangakas bring those topics up themselves with stupid yaoi, gender bender, or yuri fan service, they're the ones politicizing anime and manga, not people like me. If they'd treat it with respect, then there would be no need for outcry.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Lenlo: Eh sorry about that, I almost launched into a rant about tumblr.
Lenlo
Yeah, id prefer not to get to political in this chat, but I agree with Aidan. Theres a limit, and I strike that limit at the + of LGBTQ+. There comes a point where your just making things up to be special
Kaiser-Eoghan
Looking back I probably read hourou musuko initially to get a better understanding of the topic it covered.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Not looking for cares/attention/fellating/self promoting, just felt a moment to pseudo-intellectualize because it was related to the identity topic.
Kaiser-Eoghan
From a psychological standpoint, apparently this is linked in with autism to some level.
Kaiser-Eoghan
The idea of cosplay as a thing is fascinating honestly as an escapist thing.
Kaiser-Eoghan
And I imagine it would probably be easier to interact in a relationship as someone else, of course with them being aware of that.
Kaiser-Eoghan
More in a religious/spiritual sense however and having a greater sense of identity/feeling through temporarily taking on the role of someone else.
Kaiser-Eoghan
but the person themselves.
Kaiser-Eoghan
I did have ideas after hourou musuko and also finding out someone was trans that that might have applied to me and I still use female names in some sites but I really just came to realize it wasn't about trying the female clothes thing numerous times, wasn't trans(vestite or sexual), really pretty much found out I temporarily can take on roles of what/who I dress as, not due to gender
Kaiser-Eoghan
Oh, tumblr sjws are a parody of leftism /activism .
AidanAK47
People have the right to be whatever they want to be. That said there is a line when it comes to respecting peoples choices. For example, I don't think we need Tumblrs 40 different Genders.
Kaiser-Eoghan
@Anon: I haven't read the lesbian experience one.
Kaiser-Eoghan
Love my life was another good one, a serious shoujo-ai manga.
Anonymous1829213
That's unfortunate. TvT
Anonymous1829200
no thanks
Anonymous1829213
In the future though, I'd like to see something exploring sexuality as a whole even further. Even LGBT in and of itself implies a gender/sexuality binary. Let's get into the gender neutral/fluid, pansexuality, and so on as well. :.D
Anonymous1829200
and i like the
Anonymous1829200
i have one
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